Full Transcript for ep127: Socialists Take Vancouver + Canada's Legacy of Organizing Against South African Apartheid

survivors and supported by 31 00:01:55.290 --> 00:01:59.079 the evidentiary record, Truth Before Reconciliation is a valuable tool 32 00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:03.340 to help develop historical literacy to identify and combat denialism 33 00:02:03.439 --> 00:02:09.370 and anti-Indigenous racism to collectively build a better future. Founded 34 00:02:09.449 --> 00:02:12.770 in 1967, UMP is the first university press established in 35 00:02:12.810 --> 00:02:15.159 Western Canada and is a leading publisher of books on 36 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:18.400 Indigenous studies and Indigenous and Canadian history. You can find 37 00:02:18.520 --> 00:02:22.939 University of Manitoba Press' Truth Before Reconciliation, Confronting Residential School 38 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:28.009 Denialism at your local library or independent bookstore and at uofmpress.ca. Now, 39 00:02:28.229 --> 00:02:31.860 here's the show. When Nelson Mandela died, the Canadian political 40 00:02:31.939 --> 00:02:34.229 elite took a lot of credit for playing a role 41 00:02:34.330 --> 00:02:37.009 in ending South African apartheid. But the story is a 42 00:02:37.030 --> 00:02:40.229 lot more complicated than that. Small Little Foot Soldiers, a 43 00:02:40.270 --> 00:02:44.250 new documentary podcast, interviews the student organizers, the union activists, 44 00:02:44.530 --> 00:02:47.009 the members of churches and women's groups, and the regular 45 00:02:47.060 --> 00:02:49.280 people from coast to coast to coast who built the 46 00:02:49.300 --> 00:02:54.280 Canadian anti-apartheid movement, driving the divestment campaigns, demanding sanctions, and 47 00:02:54.319 --> 00:02:58.259 boycotting South African products. The five-part documentary Small Little Foot 48 00:02:58.300 --> 00:03:01.939 Soldiers launches on November 9th, 2026 at community radio stations 49 00:03:01.969 --> 00:03:04.590 around the country and wherever you get your podcasts. Now, 50 00:03:04.729 --> 00:03:06.409 here's an introduction to the show. 51 00:03:10.449 --> 00:03:15.979 On December 5th, 2013, Nelson Mandela died. In Canada, members 52 00:03:16.020 --> 00:03:18.900 of the political elite rushed to take credit for playing 53 00:03:18.939 --> 00:03:22.919 a role in ending the odious system of apartheid. But 54 00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:28.250 the story is more complicated. and much more beautiful than that. Indeed, 55 00:03:28.689 --> 00:03:31.490 it was regular folks in Canada, from coast to coast 56 00:03:31.509 --> 00:03:37.949 to coast. Student organizers, union activists, members of churches, and 57 00:03:38.050 --> 00:03:41.430 so many others. What one activist referred to as a 58 00:03:41.469 --> 00:03:45.530 string of pearls across the country, who drove the divestment campaigns, 59 00:03:45.909 --> 00:03:49.659 the demands for sanctions, the boycotts of South African products, 60 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:54.169 who built the anti-apartheid movement in Canada, part of a 61 00:03:54.189 --> 00:03:57.780 global

struggle dedicated to bringing an end to South Africa's 62 00:03:57.849 --> 00:04:04.340 legally entrenched system of racial segregation and white supremacy. Welcome 63 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:08.060 to Small Little Foot Soldiers, a people's history of the 64 00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:10.099 anti-apartheid movement in Canada. 65 00:04:11.180 --> 00:04:15.990 Small Little Soldiers, foot soldiers like us, we are the 66 00:04:16.110 --> 00:04:19.550 ones who made this thing possible. It was an endless 67 00:04:19.730 --> 00:04:22.310 work to convince this bloody country. 68 00:04:25.029 --> 00:04:28.250 Small Little Foot Soldiers is a five-part documentary series brought 69 00:04:28.269 --> 00:04:32.170 to you by the Amandla Radio Collective at CKUTFM in Montreal. 70 00:04:32.939 --> 00:04:33.889 I'm Tadumulete. 71 00:04:44.579 --> 00:04:47.720 That was the opening to our forthcoming audio documentary series, 72 00:04:48.060 --> 00:04:51.519 Small Little Foot Soldiers, a people's history of the anti-apartheid 73 00:04:51.560 --> 00:04:55.050 movement in Canada. I'm Pierre Loiselle. I'm here with Gwen 74 00:04:55.110 --> 00:04:58.910 Shulman and Doug Miller, veterans of the anti-apartheid movement. And 75 00:04:59.290 --> 00:05:01.889 the three of us are the co-producers of this series 76 00:05:02.290 --> 00:05:06.670 as part of the Amandla Radio Collective at CKUT-FM in Montreal. 77 00:05:07.189 --> 00:05:09.589 Gwen, Doug, welcome to the Harbinger Showcase. 78 00:05:10.230 --> 00:05:10.810 Hi there. 79 00:05:10.829 --> 00:05:11.550 Thank you, Pierre. 80 00:05:11.970 --> 00:05:12.990 Gwen, let's start with. 81 00:05:12.949 --> 00:05:15.829 Amandla Radio, the weekly program that was the forerunner of 82 00:05:15.870 --> 00:05:17.740 this series. It was on the air for more than 83 00:05:17.769 --> 00:05:20.540 three decades at CKUT-FM. Tell us about the show. 84 00:05:21.180 --> 00:05:24.600 Yeah, it's, I'm sort of, very emotional about having just 85 00:05:24.620 --> 00:05:27.379 heard the intro because it's sort of like this culminating 86 00:05:27.459 --> 00:05:31.060 moment after, yes, three decades of on-air radio. So it's 87 00:05:31.100 --> 00:05:35.250 just all amazingly exciting. So anyway, going back three decades, 88 00:05:35.430 --> 00:05:38.329 essentially what happened was I was a member of the 89 00:05:38.550 --> 00:05:43.290 anti-apartheid committee at McGill, the South Africa committee, and very 90 00:05:43.430 --> 00:05:47.680 active in anti-apartheid activism on campus, as was another member 91 00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:51.879 of the committee, Suzanne Smythe, and There was a growing 92 00:05:51.980 --> 00:05:56.740 awareness and concern that the mainstream coverage of apartheid in 93 00:05:56.819 --> 00:06:03.300 Canada was shifting away from apartheid as a white supremacist 94 00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:07.259 system of government in South Africa. So that's what it was. 95 00:06:07.439 --> 00:06:11.970 And it was shifting towards this racist

narrative of black-on-black violence, 96 00:06:12.009 --> 00:06:15.310 which was a propaganda campaign being rolled out by the 97 00:06:15.329 --> 00:06:21.250 apartheid government to delegitimize anti-apartheid forces within the country. And 98 00:06:21.389 --> 00:06:26.699 so we were horrified that Canadian media was swallowing this propaganda. 99 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:30.939 So we approached CKUT about starting a show where we 100 00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:36.439 could address this propaganda and this distorted shift in the 101 00:06:36.500 --> 00:06:40.000 coverage of what was going on in South and Southern Africa. 102 00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:45.769 And to our great delight, CKUT said yes. Well, in fact, 103 00:06:45.990 --> 00:06:48.370 to be fair, they initially said no, they didn't have 104 00:06:48.410 --> 00:06:51.970 a slot. And the environmental show at the time, Earth Tremors, 105 00:06:52.569 --> 00:06:55.199 there was a representative at the meeting, and he said, 106 00:06:55.639 --> 00:06:58.540 this is so important, I'm giving them half an hour 107 00:06:58.579 --> 00:06:59.279 of my slot. 108 00:06:59.939 --> 00:07:03.100 Wow, what a legacy. So, Doug, in the introduction off 109 00:07:03.139 --> 00:07:06.459 the top, we heard that when Nelson Mandela died, Canadian 110 00:07:06.519 --> 00:07:10.529 elites rushed to take credit for ending apartheid. Why does 111 00:07:10.569 --> 00:07:13.529 the story and the origins of this series start here? 112 00:07:14.389 --> 00:07:19.279 Well, there was an active anti-apartheid movement in Canada from 113 00:07:19.420 --> 00:07:22.680 the late 60s on. There were people before that who 114 00:07:22.699 --> 00:07:26.879 were activists, but it became a force throughout the 60s 115 00:07:27.019 --> 00:07:29.259 and then into the 70s. And by the time Gwen 116 00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:31.970 came along in the 80s, it was getting quite widespread 117 00:07:32.050 --> 00:07:36.129 and getting a lot of attention. So I was part 118 00:07:36.170 --> 00:07:38.189 of those people in the trenches that had to work 119 00:07:38.250 --> 00:07:42.930 with a very recalcitrant hypocritical Canadian government quacking all sorts 120 00:07:42.990 --> 00:07:46.870 of things about how important it is to oppose apartheid 121 00:07:46.910 --> 00:07:49.069 at the UN, but then doing nothing in terms of 122 00:07:49.250 --> 00:07:54.100 boycotting or sanctioning or disinvesting at all in keeping the 123 00:07:54.129 --> 00:07:58.139 South Africa regime essentially alive on life support, when in 124 00:07:58.199 --> 00:08:00.100 fact it could have been ended much, much earlier. So 125 00:08:00.139 --> 00:08:04.800 we were totally offended, upset. It was such an egregious 126 00:08:04.860 --> 00:08:08.579 rewriting of history when the Canadian delegation of poobahs and 127 00:08:08.970 --> 00:08:11.870 bigwigs from Ottawa got on that plane with Stephen Harper, 128 00:08:12.629 --> 00:08:15.009 already a head of a government that was full of 129 00:08:15.069 --> 00:08:19.170 people that still called Mandela a terrorist, and went down 130 00:08:19.209 --> 00:08:21.879 there thumping their chest, claiming that Canada had done so 131 00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:25.259 much to free South Africa and free Nelson Mandela. It 132 00:08:25.319 --> 00:08:29.319 was upsetting to us. So that's why we put together 133 00:08:29.339 --> 00:08:32.580 the show that December the 13th for us, a week 134 00:08:32.679 --> 00:08:37.000 after Mandela died, with activists from Montreal who had been involved, 135 00:08:37.529 --> 00:08:40.590 and activists from across Canada on the radio who'd been involved. 136 00:08:41.049 --> 00:08:44.580 And they all told really, really good stories about what 137 00:08:44.620 --> 00:08:47.500 they were doing during this struggle, what was Canada's role, 138 00:08:47.580 --> 00:08:49.659 and what did Nelson Mandela mean to them. And they 139 00:08:49.679 --> 00:08:55.480 were amazing stories, poignant and just so touching and compelling. 140 00:08:55.519 --> 00:08:57.919 It was really, so we just said, we got to 141 00:08:57.960 --> 00:09:02.320 keep this alive. These folks are going to become extinct someday. 142 00:09:02.360 --> 00:09:03.679 We should really get this recorded. 143 00:09:04.269 --> 00:09:06.470 And that led to a series of interviews. You folks 144 00:09:06.529 --> 00:09:09.710 recorded over 50 interviews. And of course, the raw full-length 145 00:09:09.750 --> 00:09:12.269 interviews that you folks did are available on our website 146 00:09:12.409 --> 00:09:17.899 at amandla.ckut.ca. And they are the base for the actual series. 147 00:09:18.100 --> 00:09:20.899 So 38 of those voices actually made it into the 148 00:09:20.940 --> 00:09:23.879 five episodes of this series. Doug, this really is a 149 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:24.659 people's history. 150 00:09:25.580 --> 00:09:26.480 Oh, absolutely. 151 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:29.960 I've done oral history before, and I'm a firm believer 152 00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:34.080 in giving people democratizing history by letting people tell the stories. 153 00:09:34.980 --> 00:09:40.830 When you let governments, mainstream media, even academics, I have 154 00:09:40.850 --> 00:09:43.129 many academic friends and many of them are very progressive, 155 00:09:43.169 --> 00:09:44.649 but on the other hand, a lot of them are 156 00:09:44.690 --> 00:09:48.210 just writing books to write books. They don't tell the 157 00:09:48.250 --> 00:09:50.870 story from the ground up. They tell the story from 158 00:09:50.909 --> 00:09:54.610 a perspective of the microscope looking down at the ants. 159 00:09:55.110 --> 00:09:57.330 When the people tell the story, then you really have 160 00:09:57.370 --> 00:09:59.669 a feel for what were the struggles, what were the issues, 161 00:09:59.690 --> 00:10:02.980 how were they being dealt with from the ground. And 162 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:06.899 I believe that's a more realistic

and living history. 163 00:10:07.700 --> 00:10:09.990 Gwen, give us a sense of who these people are. 164 00:10:10.740 --> 00:10:15.480 Yeah, so it's a pretty broad swath across Canada. So 165 00:10:15.639 --> 00:10:19.730 from the Maritimes through to British Columbia up to northern Alberta. 166 00:10:19.769 --> 00:10:25.629 So geographically diverse and different generations, as Doug alluded to, 167 00:10:25.990 --> 00:10:31.580 and different backgrounds. So it's union people, it's students, it's 168 00:10:31.799 --> 00:10:36.830 church folks, and it's also poignantly, I think, A lot 169 00:10:36.850 --> 00:10:39.710 of folks who weren't really wearing any particular hat but 170 00:10:39.769 --> 00:10:44.629 were moved to act because they were so offended by 171 00:10:44.669 --> 00:10:47.309 the system and felt that they couldn't stand on the sidelines, 172 00:10:47.350 --> 00:10:52.450 that through whatever means they chose, they had something to 173 00:10:52.509 --> 00:10:55.139 say about this and they had a contribution to make 174 00:10:55.179 --> 00:10:57.039 to bringing the apartheid system down. 175 00:10:57.620 --> 00:11:01.980 The first episode launching November 9th is Awakenings. While some 176 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:04.279 were born into the struggle, others had a moment that 177 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:07.789 they remembered that led them to becoming involved. Here's how 178 00:11:07.809 --> 00:11:11.289 the Sharpeville Massacre hit one of those voices, Rosemary Wally. 179 00:11:11.809 --> 00:11:15.929 Rosemary Wally cut her political teeth abroad in the United Kingdom, 180 00:11:16.470 --> 00:11:19.179 then moved to Canada, where she became a teacher and 181 00:11:19.220 --> 00:11:22.419 lent her political skills and insights to help build and 182 00:11:22.460 --> 00:11:24.000 work with the movement in Montreal. 183 00:11:24.299 --> 00:11:27.340 Well, my first introduction to the anti-apartheid struggle was the 184 00:11:27.399 --> 00:11:32.590 day after the Sharpeville riots in March of 1960. 185 00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:39.879 Demonstrations against the South African government's strict apartheid policies flare 186 00:11:39.899 --> 00:11:44.889 into shocking violence. At Sharpsville, an industrial township, thousands gather 187 00:11:44.950 --> 00:11:48.730 outside a police station in protest against new laws requiring 188 00:11:48.850 --> 00:11:51.309 every African to carry a pass at all times. 189 00:11:57.620 --> 00:12:02.799 On Monday, March 21, 1960, in Sharpsville, a township some 190 00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:06.440 70 kilometers from Johannesburg, Police opened fire on a peaceful 191 00:12:06.500 --> 00:12:11.210 demonstration of 20,000 Africans protesting the country's notorious pass law, 192 00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:15.929 which required blacks, coloreds, and Indians to carry internal passports 193 00:12:15.990 --> 00:12:19.669 at all times. The tensions in Sharpeville grew steadily through 194 00:12:19.690 --> 00:12:23.029 the

morning as the police drove armored cars into the 195 00:12:23.070 --> 00:12:26.210 crowd and South African Air Force planes flew above them 196 00:12:26.629 --> 00:12:30.480 in a failed attempt to disperse the demonstrators. Then, at 1.30 197 00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:35.470 in the afternoon, without any warning, The police used submachine guns, 198 00:12:35.870 --> 00:12:41.230 rifles and revolvers to fire a total of 1,344 rounds 199 00:12:41.370 --> 00:12:46.429 directly into the crowd. By conservative estimates, 69 people were killed, 200 00:12:46.789 --> 00:12:52.419 including 29 children. 189 were wounded, many of them shot 201 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:55.700 in the back as they fled. There were no police injuries. 202 00:12:56.440 --> 00:12:59.980 The Sharpeville Massacre was the culminating event in a long 203 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:04.679 history of non-violent resistance to apartheid. Rosemary Wally. 204 00:13:05.340 --> 00:13:08.389 Well, my first introduction to the anti-apartheid struggle was the 205 00:13:08.450 --> 00:13:13.230 day after the Sharpeville riots in March of 1960. So 206 00:13:13.330 --> 00:13:15.830 I got up and I went downstairs and there was 207 00:13:15.870 --> 00:13:18.929 the newspaper. Everybody had newspapers in those days. And there 208 00:13:18.970 --> 00:13:22.070 was this riveting picture on the newspaper, on the Daily Mail, 209 00:13:22.529 --> 00:13:26.100 of the 69 people who had been shot, these unarmed 210 00:13:26.860 --> 00:13:31.000 civilians who had been shot. I was so horrified by this. 211 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:34.059 I remember I couldn't even get ready for school and 212 00:13:34.120 --> 00:13:37.519 I missed the bus for school. And when I missed 213 00:13:37.539 --> 00:13:39.139 the bus, I would have to go to another bus 214 00:13:39.159 --> 00:13:41.659 stop quite a way away. And it was down a 215 00:13:41.779 --> 00:13:44.450 tree-lined street. There were not too many trees where I 216 00:13:44.470 --> 00:13:46.210 grew up. But this is a tree-lined street to this 217 00:13:46.710 --> 00:13:50.110 bus stop that was farther away. And I kept stopping 218 00:13:50.350 --> 00:13:51.769 at the... I was crying. 219 00:13:51.830 --> 00:13:52.570 I was so upset. 220 00:13:53.090 --> 00:13:55.230 And I had dirt on my face when I arrived 221 00:13:55.269 --> 00:13:57.470 at school because I'd been I've been putting my face 222 00:13:57.529 --> 00:14:00.250 into the bark of the trees. I remember that. And 223 00:14:00.289 --> 00:14:02.110 people would say when I got to school, what's the matter? 224 00:14:02.129 --> 00:14:05.090 You've got dirt on your face. So that was my 225 00:14:05.190 --> 00:14:10.240 first riveting introduction to what was happening in South Africa. 226 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:16.080 That was Rosemary Wally from episode one, Awakenings. And Gwen, 227 00:14:16.379 --> 00:14:17.759 where does the series take us from there? 228 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:23.679 So it's such an amazing tapestry of stories that comes 229 00:14:23.779 --> 00:14:27.259 out in Awakenings, the first episode, because people came to 230 00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:30.799 the movement in so many different ways. Rosemary learned about. 231 00:14:30.620 --> 00:14:32.240 It through Sharpeville. 232 00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:36.000 There were all kinds of ways that people's eyes were 233 00:14:36.139 --> 00:14:41.769 opened to this system of structured racism, constitutionally enshrined racism 234 00:14:41.809 --> 00:14:45.509 that was governing a country, a world away from people 235 00:14:45.529 --> 00:14:48.789 in Canada. But people were hearing about it. They were 236 00:14:48.830 --> 00:14:52.210 shocked by it. So the episode just goes through people 237 00:14:52.269 --> 00:14:55.720 telling these very personal stories you hear it in rosemary's 238 00:14:55.789 --> 00:14:59.259 voice this was something that you know you even hear 239 00:14:59.299 --> 00:15:03.559 all these decades later the emotion of recalling what sharpville 240 00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:05.720 was for this young girl she was you know she 241 00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:08.759 was a high school student and she hears this and 242 00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:11.879 it moved her and it shook the foundations of her 243 00:15:11.950 --> 00:15:14.889 world and set her on set her on a path 244 00:15:15.539 --> 00:15:17.720 pretty much for the rest of her life, frankly, because 245 00:15:17.779 --> 00:15:21.940 now she's very active in the Palestine solidarity movement. So 246 00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:25.340 these are the stories we hear in episode one, personal, 247 00:15:25.710 --> 00:15:31.750 deep reflections about how personally offended and horrified people were 248 00:15:31.830 --> 00:15:33.269 by the system. And I don't want to give too 249 00:15:33.309 --> 00:15:35.870 much away. I think people just need to sit back 250 00:15:36.389 --> 00:15:37.700 and listen to these stories. 251 00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:42.100 In episode three, strategies, we get into some of the activities, 252 00:15:42.139 --> 00:15:44.919 some of the tactics that people used. Let's listen to 253 00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:46.220 a few of those right now. 254 00:15:51.159 --> 00:15:54.019 We used to do boycotting of the Granny Smith apples. 255 00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:59.149 I went literally from Halifax to Victoria, speaking in church 256 00:15:59.190 --> 00:16:03.690 halls and union basements and universities and schools. 257 00:16:04.710 --> 00:16:09.139 We were making pamphlets and then handing them out The 258 00:16:09.179 --> 00:16:13.519 slogan that we had, coffee for us means blood for Angola. 259 00:16:14.019 --> 00:16:18.500 The tactics included walking over to their bank and saying, 260 00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:21.700 why the f * * * are you investing in 261 00:16:21.779 --> 00:16:25.620 this kind of horrific impact on people's lives? 262 00:16:26.100 --> 00:16:28.279 You'd go into the liquor store and you'd put this 263

00:16:28.340 --> 00:16:33.179 sticker over top of the South African label rendering the 264 00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:35.240 bottle a non-saleable product. 265 00:16:35.799 --> 00:16:38.879 And people, people were, they thought we were crazy. 266 00:16:39.269 --> 00:16:40.269 The third week, we had. 267 00:16:40.190 --> 00:16:40.710 A lot of fun. 268 00:16:41.269 --> 00:16:43.590 Arranging boycotts of Shell gas stations. 269 00:16:43.809 --> 00:16:48.149 Going to the shareholders' meetings of the banks to ask 270 00:16:48.190 --> 00:16:51.669 them not to give loans to South Africa because of apartheid. 271 00:16:51.950 --> 00:16:56.129 A Canadian-wide day of action, which called upon workers to 272 00:16:56.169 --> 00:17:00.159 down their tools in support of the South African struggle. 273 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:05.079 Telephone workers refused to accept or plug in any calls 274 00:17:05.140 --> 00:17:10.539 from South Africans. Airline reservation agents refused to book tickets. 275 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:13.539 Postal workers refused to handle mail. 276 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:18.759 There was moving of material around the country and maintaining 277 00:17:18.859 --> 00:17:19.759 safe houses. 278 00:17:20.500 --> 00:17:24.059 We transported 40 tons of material. 279 00:17:24.200 --> 00:17:29.420 Bring in weapons to assist communities to defend themselves. 280 00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:31.680 And that's. 281 00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:39.450 A overview of some of the strategies that were used 282 00:17:39.549 --> 00:17:42.390 by the anti-apartheid movement and discussed in the series. 283 00:17:43.049 --> 00:17:43.289 Doug? 284 00:17:44.009 --> 00:17:47.890 It's an amazing overview, and to hear it put together 285 00:17:47.910 --> 00:17:52.099 like that, Pierre, is just fantastic. I'm so happy to 286 00:17:52.140 --> 00:17:54.880 hear it. And it's very emblematic of the nature of 287 00:17:54.920 --> 00:17:58.099 the struggle. There were so many avenues to get involved 288 00:17:58.160 --> 00:18:01.119 and so many ways to make your voice heard and 289 00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:02.039 make a difference. 290 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:04.109 The last ones were were. 291 00:18:04.049 --> 00:18:09.150 Underground workers, recruits to the underground military of the wing 292 00:18:09.190 --> 00:18:13.269 of the ANC. And my goodness, that's quite a sacrifice. 293 00:18:13.309 --> 00:18:15.250 Some of those people paid a very dear price for 294 00:18:15.269 --> 00:18:20.230 that in terms of emotional consequences over the history thereafter. 295 00:18:20.750 --> 00:18:24.359 Others just were there on the corner handing out pamphlets, 296 00:18:24.440 --> 00:18:28.420 and it all added up to a really powerful force 297 00:18:28.980 --> 00:18:29.420 for good. 298 00:18:30.019 --> 00:18:31.559 Some of the work of the movement was public, like 299 00:18:31.579 --> 00:18:35.869 the pickets, the protests, divestment. but some by necessity just 300 00:18:35.930 --> 00:18:38.509

couldn't be. And some of those stories are just coming 301 00:18:38.869 --> 00:18:41.650 to light in recent days. Now, I'd like to bring 302 00:18:41.670 --> 00:18:43.980 you to the next clip, actually. Speaking of that, Anne Mitchell, 303 00:18:44.059 --> 00:18:47.660 she helped set up the Canadian Committee of ADAPSA, the 304 00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:51.420 International Defense and Aid Fund to Support Liberation Work in 305 00:18:51.539 --> 00:18:53.240 South Africa. Let's go to that clip right now. 306 00:18:53.859 --> 00:18:58.049 We would identify people either through the churches or through 307 00:18:58.069 --> 00:19:00.930 the NGOs in different parts of the country. We had 308 00:19:00.950 --> 00:19:04.470 some people in Fredericton, some people in Montreal, some people 309 00:19:04.529 --> 00:19:07.430 in Ottawa, obviously, some people in Toronto, some people out 310 00:19:07.470 --> 00:19:11.349 in Calgary and Edmonton and Vancouver, who were just asked, 311 00:19:11.730 --> 00:19:16.009 you know, we're working for the anti-apartheid movement and we 312 00:19:16.049 --> 00:19:19.490 have this project that we'd like your help. We're wanting 313 00:19:19.589 --> 00:19:23.609 to send money to people who are political prisoners, they're 314 00:19:23.650 --> 00:19:26.170 in jail, and we want to send money to their families. 315 00:19:26.690 --> 00:19:29.329 Will you do this? But will you do it without 316 00:19:30.049 --> 00:19:34.849 talking about it and without broadcasting it within the anti-apartheid 317 00:19:34.910 --> 00:19:38.119 movement I met and without saying who these people are. 318 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:41.980 And they would agree, some would, some wouldn't. And then 319 00:19:42.119 --> 00:19:46.640 we started, we had a coordinator in each city who 320 00:19:46.819 --> 00:19:50.269 we would send the names and the information and the 321 00:19:50.309 --> 00:19:52.710 money because we sent the money. It was little bits 322 00:19:52.789 --> 00:19:55.579 of money. It might've been 50 bucks or 70 bucks 323 00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:59.740 or a hundred bucks at the most a month that 324 00:19:59.779 --> 00:20:02.039 would go to them. And it would be based on 325 00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:04.759 how many kids they've got. Are they in school? What 326 00:20:04.819 --> 00:20:08.319 is their situation? Anyway, that's what happened. And the money, 327 00:20:08.380 --> 00:20:11.720 by the way, was not sent by checks or in 328 00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:15.619 an envelope. It was sent by postal money order because 329 00:20:15.819 --> 00:20:18.259 it was reckoned that was the safest way to do it. 330 00:20:19.099 --> 00:20:21.849 And that the South Africans were monitoring bank accounts. 331 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:25.509 Gwen, give us the context of why this work had 332 00:20:25.529 --> 00:20:26.130 to be covert. 333 00:20:26.670 --> 00:20:26.869 Yes. 334 00:20:27.369 --> 00:20:30.369 I think it's important to ground this in history because now, 335 00:20:30.450 --> 00:20:33.069 you know, Nelson Mandela, the head of the ANC, is 336 00:20:33.170 --> 00:20:39.759 a globally celebrated figure and is held up as an 337 00:20:39.859 --> 00:20:44.220 example of the march towards justice and human rights and 338 00:20:44.269 --> 00:20:47.029 all of this. But we need to remember that that's 339 00:20:47.089 --> 00:20:50.490 the fruit of struggle and that, in fact, in the 340 00:20:50.549 --> 00:20:53.670 period that Anne is talking about, the ANC, the African 341 00:20:53.710 --> 00:20:57.660 National Congress, Anne Nelson Mandela and all of its members 342 00:20:57.700 --> 00:21:04.220 were considered terrorists. So sending money to support them had 343 00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:08.799 to be clandestine. And so, yeah, just to ground it historically. 344 00:21:08.859 --> 00:21:11.140 And I think what this documentary tries to do is 345 00:21:11.180 --> 00:21:14.789 to get people to think critically today also about these 346 00:21:14.890 --> 00:21:20.470 monikers like terrorism and names that often are trotted out 347 00:21:20.529 --> 00:21:24.690 to delegitimize what in fact are very legitimate people's struggles. 348 00:21:25.339 --> 00:21:29.180 You know, some activists actually became operatives themselves. Like in 349 00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:31.619 episode four, you're going to hear from Martha and Joanne, 350 00:21:31.700 --> 00:21:35.160 who ran safe houses and smuggled material for the ANC's 351 00:21:35.240 --> 00:21:38.000 armed wing. And then there was a teacher in northern 352 00:21:38.059 --> 00:21:41.380 Alberta who ran a secret communications link for the ANC. 353 00:21:41.940 --> 00:21:44.200 Here's an excerpt with Joe Pele. 354 00:21:44.980 --> 00:21:48.599 Some South Africans left the region for Canada and continued 355 00:21:48.619 --> 00:21:52.430 their undercover work. Joe Pele was born and raised in 356 00:21:52.490 --> 00:21:57.630 South Africa and deeply involved in the struggle, joining multiple organizations, 357 00:21:57.930 --> 00:22:02.009 including Umkonto Esizwe, the armed wing of the African National Congress. 358 00:22:02.630 --> 00:22:05.920 He was ultimately forced into exile and came to Canada, 359 00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:09.259 where he worked as a teacher in the Anishinaabe Tolkri 360 00:22:09.299 --> 00:22:13.420 First Nation in northern Alberta. While there, he was asked 361 00:22:13.460 --> 00:22:15.940 by the ANC to set up the Canadian leg of 362 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:21.130 a secret underground communications network for ANC operatives. In 1988, 363 00:22:21.130 --> 00:22:25.670 the ANC, after more than two decades in exile, launched 364 00:22:25.690 --> 00:22:29.349 Operation Vula, a project to bring some of that leadership 365 00:22:29.430 --> 00:22:32.730 back into South Africa, to ramp up the armed resistance. 366 00:22:33.589 --> 00:22:37.509 Under Vula, the ANC set up an encrypted communication system 367 00:22:37.970 --> 00:22:41.890 to allow them to

communicate with members using clandestine electronic channels. 368 00:22:42.599 --> 00:22:45.720 Tim Jenkin, who Joe Pelé refers to in a moment, 369 00:22:46.299 --> 00:22:49.319 was a member of the ANC's technical committee and the 370 00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:53.900 mastermind behind that system. He, along with two other political prisoners, 371 00:22:54.380 --> 00:22:59.390 escaped from Pretoria Prison in 1979 by carefully creating molds 372 00:22:59.450 --> 00:23:01.630 of the keys to all of the doors between them 373 00:23:02.130 --> 00:23:05.230 and freedom, priming him for the encryption work to come. 374 00:23:06.150 --> 00:23:11.630 And we spoke about recruiting people for Vula. So I 375 00:23:11.690 --> 00:23:15.890 was put in touch with Tim Jenkins, and while I 376 00:23:15.950 --> 00:23:20.680 was in Tolkri, we were in communication. I went and 377 00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:24.660 picked him up and brought him to Tolkri, where we 378 00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:28.180 spent about three days. with us and we talked about 379 00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:33.339 the struggle and we talked about encrypted messaging and so forth. 380 00:23:34.119 --> 00:23:38.019 I already knew that Tim was going to be coming over. 381 00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:43.480 So I had purchased a computer. Those days are floppy disks. 382 00:23:44.339 --> 00:23:48.630 And I knew very little about computers as well. But 383 00:23:49.369 --> 00:23:54.750 Tim Jenkins came in and put in the programs for 384 00:23:54.890 --> 00:24:01.559 us and talked about encrypted messaging systems through which we 385 00:24:01.619 --> 00:24:07.140 could contact each other. And so we made contact that way. 386 00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:11.740 Joe Pillay was also called on to recruit Canadians to 387 00:24:11.779 --> 00:24:14.019 do the kind of work Martha and Joanne were doing. 388 00:24:14.660 --> 00:24:17.619 So I put my feelers out to people I knew 389 00:24:17.779 --> 00:24:21.480 in the movement to tell them that we needed help 390 00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:27.099 and the ANC needed help. They were looking for recruits. 391 00:24:27.819 --> 00:24:32.930 I think basically it was left to Tim Genkin to 392 00:24:32.990 --> 00:24:36.650 decide how he was going to use them. But my 393 00:24:36.710 --> 00:24:42.059 understanding was that they wanted to infiltrate people into South 394 00:24:42.150 --> 00:24:46.920 Africa who could then help in the struggle within South Africa. 395 00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:53.920 Also arms and ammunition, etc., was needed in the struggle. 396 00:24:54.940 --> 00:24:59.200 and one didn't know what was going to happen during 397 00:24:59.240 --> 00:24:59.740 the struggle. 398 00:25:00.369 --> 00:25:02.930 So that gives you a pretty good taste of the 399 00:25:03.009 --> 00:25:07.750 broad spectrum of strategies that were employed in the movement. 400 00:25:08.089 --> 00:25:12.490 It had a pretty vast toolkit that continues to impress 401 00:25:12.569 --> 00:25:15.250 us all these

years later, collecting these interviews, listening to 402 00:25:15.269 --> 00:25:19.230 these interviews, producing this documentary. We still sit there in 403 00:25:19.619 --> 00:25:23.140 awe of all of the creativity, resourcefulness, and diversity of 404 00:25:23.180 --> 00:25:27.009 the strategies that were used in the anti-apartheid movement in 405 00:25:27.029 --> 00:25:30.309 Canada and, of course, within South Africa and beyond. 406 00:25:30.710 --> 00:25:33.269 So, last question to both of you. Why do these 407 00:25:33.309 --> 00:25:34.609 stories matter today? 408 00:25:35.799 --> 00:25:39.779 Oh, it's essential that we learn from the past. It's 409 00:25:40.339 --> 00:25:43.599 axiomatic that if you don't understand your past, you don't 410 00:25:43.640 --> 00:25:45.480 really know where you're going for the future. And this 411 00:25:45.579 --> 00:25:48.339 is what we see today in terms of the various 412 00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:52.269 struggles around this world as the ugly head of fascism 413 00:25:52.329 --> 00:25:54.990 rises all over the place. We have to learn from 414 00:25:55.130 --> 00:25:57.630 every struggle that's ever gone on before us. And this 415 00:25:57.710 --> 00:26:00.769 is one of those important ones that's most recently in 416 00:26:00.829 --> 00:26:04.470 history that can stand as an example for others. Not 417 00:26:04.509 --> 00:26:07.339 that it's the same. Of course not. But we need 418 00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:08.750 to learn. And that's how we do it. 419 00:26:09.299 --> 00:26:09.559 Gwen? 420 00:26:09.819 --> 00:26:12.180 Yeah, just to pick up from what Doug said. Yes, 421 00:26:12.299 --> 00:26:15.559 we have a planet that is in the clutches of 422 00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:20.559 just some terrible, terrible oppression and struggles. And I think 423 00:26:20.599 --> 00:26:23.559 part of what we hope the documentary brings to people 424 00:26:23.740 --> 00:26:26.029 is what I referred to earlier as a toolkit. There's 425 00:26:26.109 --> 00:26:28.990 so many strategies in there and some of them perhaps 426 00:26:29.029 --> 00:26:32.490 have been lost in time and might come back in 427 00:26:32.549 --> 00:26:36.210 ways to inspire current day activists. And I think one 428 00:26:36.230 --> 00:26:40.259 of the things that comes out, this was a pre-internet movement. 429 00:26:40.460 --> 00:26:42.619 So what does that mean? That means that people were 430 00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:48.819 gathering around kitchen tables, gathering at restaurants and gathering on campus, 431 00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:53.069 physically sitting down together and making posters and pamphlets and 432 00:26:53.089 --> 00:26:55.690 debating and discussing. And I think part of what that 433 00:26:55.730 --> 00:27:00.670 did was built a glue. And there are concerns now 434 00:27:00.750 --> 00:27:03.660 in our internet world with so much online activism. And 435 00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:06.079 I don't want to trash that because I think it 436 00:27:06.140 --> 00:27:09.279 has great value. But sometimes it doesn't lead to that 437 00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:13.440 kind of cohesion and knowledge about each other where you 438 00:27:13.500 --> 00:27:17.200 feel you have each other's backs. You've built friendships, in 439 00:27:17.269 --> 00:27:21.789 some instances marriages, had babies together. And it creates a 440 00:27:21.829 --> 00:27:26.390 kind of a community of activists that sometimes we fear 441 00:27:27.130 --> 00:27:29.910 some of that's getting lost in the current way of 442 00:27:30.089 --> 00:27:31.329 politically organizing. 443 00:27:32.089 --> 00:27:35.829 Gwen Schulman, Doug Millard. Thank you very much for joining me, 444 00:27:35.910 --> 00:27:41.380 Pierre Loisel, on this Harbinger Showcase. And let's leave everybody 445 00:27:41.420 --> 00:27:45.319 with a closing montage from our last episode of Small 446 00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:48.740 Little Foot Soldiers, a five-part documentary series from the Amandla 447 00:27:48.779 --> 00:27:54.140 Radio Collective at CKUT-FM. Episode one, Awakenings, drops November 9th 448 00:27:54.349 --> 00:27:55.809 everywhere you get your podcasts. 449 00:27:56.170 --> 00:27:56.670 Thanks, Pierre. 450 00:27:57.349 --> 00:27:58.349 Thank you so much, Pierre. 451 00:27:58.890 --> 00:27:59.829 It's been a pleasure, everyone. 452 00:28:09.160 --> 00:28:12.319 It has been over three decades since South Africa's first 453 00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:17.980 non-racial elections. Activists reflect on this era with pride and 454 00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:21.579 a good dose of self-criticism. As we come to the end, 455 00:28:22.059 --> 00:28:25.920 veterans of Canada's anti-apartheid movement, who you've come to know 456 00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:29.509 through the series, look back on what they achieved and 457 00:28:29.569 --> 00:28:33.970 where they fell short. Their reflections offer a final reckoning 458 00:28:34.029 --> 00:28:37.630 with the movement's strengths and weaknesses and with the legacy 459 00:28:37.710 --> 00:28:41.990 it leaves behind. one that inspires both hope and caution. 460 00:28:44.150 --> 00:28:49.049 It's become very romanticized, and it's important to remind people 461 00:28:49.130 --> 00:28:51.450 what it was an uphill battle every. 462 00:28:51.289 --> 00:28:52.170 Step of the way. 463 00:28:52.329 --> 00:28:55.809 Our politics were not up to the asks that capitalism 464 00:28:56.339 --> 00:29:00.000 kept putting in front of us. The evolution of the 465 00:29:00.059 --> 00:29:04.319 system that we wished to change was faster than our 466 00:29:04.359 --> 00:29:09.289 ability to collectively build the institutions that could confront them. 467 00:29:09.609 --> 00:29:11.750 I think we can use the South African struggle as 468 00:29:11.809 --> 00:29:15.430 a metaphor and a learning tool to analyze what we 469 00:29:15.470 --> 00:29:15.900 need to. 470 00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:18.799 Do to save our civilization and our humanity. 471

00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:22.319 People look today to the Palestinian solidarity work. 472 00:29:22.420 --> 00:29:24.319 They're looking for, you know, how we did it in 473 00:29:24.339 --> 00:29:27.220 the anti-apartheid years, and especially the SACTI Solidarity. 474 00:29:27.319 --> 00:29:29.279 There is nothing like the work we did in the 475 00:29:29.299 --> 00:29:30.920 SACTI Solidarity Committee in terms. 476 00:29:30.740 --> 00:29:31.420 Of its method. 477 00:29:31.910 --> 00:29:35.329 Across Canada, there were people doing things in middle corners. 478 00:29:35.980 --> 00:29:36.599 Changing things. 479 00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:41.279 The way that resonates with people that really grounded practical, 480 00:29:41.700 --> 00:29:44.700 international solidarity, I don't think can be underestimated. 481 00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:50.140 It was class, it was gender, it was over workers' rights, 482 00:29:50.819 --> 00:29:52.180 it was over housing rights. 483 00:29:52.380 --> 00:30:14.789 MUSIC Small Little Foot Soldiers is the Amandla Radio Collective's 484 00:30:14.869 --> 00:30:18.869 humble contribution to passing on a history. A history of 485 00:30:18.970 --> 00:30:23.150 regular folks from across Canada coming together in shared outrage 486 00:30:23.289 --> 00:30:27.470 at injustice and doing something about it. As John Clark, 487 00:30:27.869 --> 00:30:31.230 involved in the struggle in Ontario through union activism, put it. 488 00:30:32.029 --> 00:30:34.930 The struggles that took place are like the shoulders that 489 00:30:34.990 --> 00:30:38.410 we're on. And that's there for us. And that legacy 490 00:30:38.450 --> 00:30:42.230 that remains and still reverberates is something really precious. So 491 00:30:42.250 --> 00:30:46.230 I think it's so important that those things are brought together. 492 00:30:46.470 --> 00:30:47.289 And you look back at. 493 00:30:47.289 --> 00:30:48.490 The incredible history. 494 00:30:48.690 --> 00:30:51.650 So to leave that record for others who come afterwards 495 00:30:51.730 --> 00:30:52.950 is such an important thing. 496 00:30:52.990 --> 00:30:54.269 And this is such a great project. 497 00:30:54.809 --> 00:30:58.089 May it serve as an inspiration and a cautionary tale 498 00:30:58.529 --> 00:31:03.690 for today's struggles and tomorrow's. Thank you for listening. 499 00:31:08.619 --> 00:31:12.019 There's a special preview episode of Small Little Foot Soldiers, 500 00:31:12.099 --> 00:31:15.779 the upcoming five-part documentary series about the Canadian anti-South African 501 00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:18.809 apartheid movement. Hear it beginning November 9th at community radio 502 00:31:18.829 --> 00:31:22.809 stations around the country at harbingermedianetwork.com or wherever you get 503 00:31:22.849 --> 00:31:27.390 your podcasts. You're listening to Harbinger Showcase on your local 504 00:31:27.470 --> 00:31:31.109 campus and community radio station. I'm Harbinger director Andre Goulet 505 00:31:31.269 --> 00:31:37.500 in Montreal. Coming up next. Broadcasting since 2022, muckraking Edmonton-based 506 00:31:37.539 --> 00:31:41.240 independent journalist Jeremy appells the Orchard cast to harvest thoughtful, 507 00:31:41.339 --> 00:31:44.339 in-depth interviews with activists, academics, and others every week, like 508 00:31:44.460 --> 00:31:48.269 in this conversation featuring live result reactions from Jeremy and 509 00:31:48.309 --> 00:31:52.769 some journalist friends on the Orchard's Alberta Referendum Night livestream. Now, 510 00:31:52.890 --> 00:31:53.410 here's Jeremy. 511 00:31:53.430 --> 00:31:54.269 Oh, we're connected. 512 00:31:54.509 --> 00:31:55.410 We are connected. 513 00:31:55.450 --> 00:31:56.569 We are live. 514 00:31:56.609 --> 00:31:57.930 We are so back. 515 00:31:58.210 --> 00:31:59.150 Hi, besties. 516 00:31:59.390 --> 00:32:05.190 By popular demand, we just scrummed Jeffrey Rath. and he 517 00:32:05.210 --> 00:32:07.890 was combative AF. 518 00:32:08.730 --> 00:32:13.500 Yeah, he was not very happy to speak to the media. 519 00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:17.880 So the update, currently, I mean, the numbers are switching, 520 00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:20.819 but there's less than half of polls reported, if you 521 00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:23.789 aren't following that. But of the polls reported, 76% have 522 00:32:24.490 --> 00:32:26.970 voted to remain, to stay in Canada. 523 00:32:27.990 --> 00:32:30.450 And yeah, a third of the votes have been counted. 524 00:32:30.589 --> 00:32:36.859 CBC is projecting that Our connection's unstable. 525 00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:37.900 Just like you. 526 00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:39.920 Oh, okay. 527 00:32:40.140 --> 00:32:49.960 Yeah, so CBC is reporting that Remainers won, right? 75-25, 528 00:32:50.339 --> 00:32:52.319 about a third of polls, a bit more than a 529 00:32:52.339 --> 00:32:54.460 third of polls have reported. 530 00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:58.450 Although originally they did show like half of the polls. 531 00:32:58.769 --> 00:32:59.650 Which is strange. 532 00:33:00.089 --> 00:33:00.250 Yeah. 533 00:33:00.450 --> 00:33:05.309 Yeah, almost like it's being stolen. We're just asking questions 534 00:33:05.349 --> 00:33:10.630 here today, ladies and gentlemen. Look, I'm a classical liberal. 535 00:33:11.349 --> 00:33:16.650 I believe in free speech and open inquiry and debate. 536 00:33:17.210 --> 00:33:20.369 And yeah, I mean, but so we scrummed Jeffrey Roth. 537 00:33:20.490 --> 00:33:23.359 I thought he would be casting. I mean, he was 538 00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:24.700 casting down on the numbers. 539 00:33:25.420 --> 00:33:25.599 Yeah. 540 00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:31.900 But not like in the way that you... Like in 541 00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:33.900 a very smart lawyerly way where it's like, well, we 542 00:33:33.940 --> 00:33:35.660 don't know. We don't know. I mean, just a third 543 00:33:35.700 --> 00:33:38.920 of polls. He said, I know. We're unstable again. 544

00:33:39.880 --> 00:33:42.289 Just like you. I'm just going to keep making that joke. 545 00:33:42.890 --> 00:33:47.910 It gets better every time. It does. Unstable as Jeremy Appel. 546 00:33:48.250 --> 00:33:48.549 I mean. 547 00:33:48.890 --> 00:33:49.769 The Wi-Fi. 548 00:33:51.690 --> 00:33:53.309 I think we're, I think we're live. 549 00:33:53.369 --> 00:33:53.630 Okay. 550 00:33:53.650 --> 00:33:54.430 I think it's fine. 551 00:33:54.470 --> 00:33:54.869 Now we're good. 552 00:33:54.910 --> 00:33:56.230 We're back. We're so back. 553 00:33:57.190 --> 00:33:57.759 So back. 554 00:33:57.779 --> 00:33:57.970 Yeah. 555 00:33:57.990 --> 00:34:00.480 So wrap. said we don't know what these numbers are 556 00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:03.660 it's like he kept saying uh less than a fifth 557 00:34:03.720 --> 00:34:06.259 because he's looking at the number of polls i've reported 558 00:34:07.279 --> 00:34:12.170 which excludes the uh advanced ballots which rath said were 559 00:34:12.590 --> 00:34:16.769 uh union dominated which i i'm not sure why. 560 00:34:17.829 --> 00:34:20.010 That matters oh yeah he did mention that he was 561 00:34:20.090 --> 00:34:24.969 feeling uh it is a feeling that the mail-in ballots 562 00:34:24.989 --> 00:34:27.690 were predominantly owned by the unions. That was what he 563 00:34:27.710 --> 00:34:31.070 was claiming. Um, as these from one on, he felt, 564 00:34:31.530 --> 00:34:33.550 I think that media was treating it as though it 565 00:34:33.570 --> 00:34:36.829 was over. Um, I have not seen this on CBC, 566 00:34:36.869 --> 00:34:38.409 but people in the room have been telling us that 567 00:34:38.429 --> 00:34:40.150 CBC has declared victory. 568 00:34:40.469 --> 00:34:45.409 So I'm not really sure. They projected. I mean, when's 569 00:34:45.449 --> 00:34:46.389 that lopsided? 570 00:34:46.670 --> 00:34:46.809 Yeah. 571 00:34:47.110 --> 00:34:52.239 Like it, maybe it won't be 75, 25, but like, 64, like, 572 00:34:52.300 --> 00:34:55.949 it's not gonna, like, the, anyways. 573 00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:57.610 We're not, I mean, we're not able to hear, we 574 00:34:57.719 --> 00:34:59.429 don't have subtitles, we're not seeing the context of what 575 00:34:59.449 --> 00:35:00.130 they're saying, but yes. 576 00:35:00.429 --> 00:35:02.829 Yeah, I mean, I'm sure Jason Marks is saying very 577 00:35:02.849 --> 00:35:07.429 smart things, but... Friend of the pod. Yeah, dear friend 578 00:35:07.510 --> 00:35:10.530 of the pod. Love him. Okay, anyway, um. 579 00:35:11.159 --> 00:35:13.900 So you actually started talking to Rath a bit before 580 00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:16.719 some other media went. What started off the conversation? 581 00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:19.719 Well, I just asked him, like, what's his response to 582 00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:22.800 the results that we have so far? 583 00:35:22.820 --> 00:35:23.719 Right? 584 00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:26.719 Acknowledging that these aren't the complete results. And he was 585 00:35:26.739 --> 00:35:30.590 just like, yeah, I feel good. It's great. Arshie! 586 00:35:30.610 --> 00:35:32.110 Yo! 587 00:35:32.309 --> 00:35:34.630 True friend of the pod. True friend of the pod. 588 00:35:34.690 --> 00:35:34.949 Yeah. 589 00:35:35.090 --> 00:35:37.670 Arshie, man. What's up? Do you listen to me on 590 00:35:37.710 --> 00:35:40.269 the hatchet? I have not yet, but I have it bookmarked. 591 00:35:40.949 --> 00:35:41.690 Have it bookmarked. 592 00:35:41.809 --> 00:35:43.849 I've been busy putting together my own podcast. 593 00:35:44.050 --> 00:35:48.789 Yeah, true. Fair enough. But, yeah. Yeah, he's like, this 594 00:35:48.809 --> 00:35:54.789 is great. He's like, hundreds of thousands of Albertans voted 595 00:35:55.150 --> 00:35:57.929 to proceed with the referendum. Like, that's a good start. 596 00:35:59.780 --> 00:36:04.340 And it's like, yeah, but you lost. Like millions of 597 00:36:04.500 --> 00:36:06.800 Albertans voted the other way. 598 00:36:06.820 --> 00:36:07.280 Yeah. 599 00:36:07.489 --> 00:36:09.650 I mean, they have been pivoting to this message, though 600 00:36:09.670 --> 00:36:13.449 we saw that forecast earlier. So it was even having 601 00:36:13.469 --> 00:36:17.010 this discussion, even doing this has brought us victory. And 602 00:36:17.070 --> 00:36:19.250 so they're staying with that message. Like they're staying with 603 00:36:19.269 --> 00:36:22.610 a hopeful message tonight, I would say, at the independence. 604 00:36:23.090 --> 00:36:23.280 Yeah. 605 00:36:23.389 --> 00:36:26.260 Like they're saying it's a moral victory, right? And you 606 00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:31.940 talk about how everyone was against us, every institution. The premier... 607 00:36:32.050 --> 00:36:36.730 who we'll get to in a moment, Rachel Notley, Jason Kenney, 608 00:36:39.670 --> 00:36:46.190 Stephen Harper, Preston Manning, Mark Carney, Nahed Nenshi, right? The unions, 609 00:36:46.329 --> 00:36:52.340 the media, they were all against us, yet we lost 610 00:36:52.380 --> 00:36:54.820 by a 50-point margin. So, pretty good. 611 00:36:55.360 --> 00:36:55.619 Right. 612 00:36:56.380 --> 00:36:57.079 Yeah, um. 613 00:36:57.800 --> 00:37:00.099 Okay, so one other thing that he was talking about. 614 00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:02.239 I mean, one, he didn't feel that it was fair 615 00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:03.969 for things to be covered as though it was over. 616 00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:05.329 He also. 617 00:37:05.909 --> 00:37:10.610 So we shouldn't cover elections until 100% of votes? Is 618 00:37:10.630 --> 00:37:13.329 that what he's suggesting? Because that's actually maybe not a 619 00:37:13.349 --> 00:37:16.489 bad idea. Even Ralph Kahn's... I didn't know that, but 620 00:37:16.510 --> 00:37:16.789 that tracks. 621 00:37:16.809 --> 00:37:18.969 I was just hearing this actually in the room. Somebody 622 00:37:18.989 --> 00:37:21.610 was talking about this, so that's interesting. 623 00:37:21.789 --> 00:37:24.929 Well, Ralph

Kahn was... Even the firewall letter, which was 624 00:37:25.030 --> 00:37:28.530 not a separatist thing, but was picked up by a 625 00:37:28.570 --> 00:37:34.050 lot of separatists. Ralph Kahn was like, why would we 626 00:37:34.090 --> 00:37:35.250 do this? This is stupid. 627 00:37:35.969 --> 00:37:36.369 This is. 628 00:37:36.469 --> 00:37:44.440 Oh, okay. Interestingly, earlier in the night, they had two 629 00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:48.179 screens showing global, one screen in the middle showing CBC. 630 00:37:48.500 --> 00:37:52.260 Now it's all CBC, which is interesting. Why do you 631 00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:52.860 think they did that? 632 00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:55.820 I'm wondering if maybe the staff is in control of this. 633 00:37:56.519 --> 00:37:58.380 There was a countdown on the CBC page, so I'm 634 00:37:58.420 --> 00:38:00.809 wondering if that's why. Because originally they were showing some 635 00:38:00.829 --> 00:38:02.670 kind of countdown to when we would see results. 636 00:38:02.849 --> 00:38:03.070 Yeah. 637 00:38:03.250 --> 00:38:04.849 Or if they were just tired of looking at the 638 00:38:04.889 --> 00:38:07.690 other anchors. But yeah, now it is currently all CBC, 639 00:38:07.730 --> 00:38:12.829 but then also pretty anti-CBC room. So that hasn't changed. 640 00:38:13.010 --> 00:38:15.510 And Raph played that up too. He's like, of course, 641 00:38:15.590 --> 00:38:18.420 the CBC called it. We don't know what the final 642 00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:22.159 results are. I know you're all happy referring to us 643 00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:25.199 journalists that this happened. But you know what? We're going 644 00:38:25.219 --> 00:38:28.820 to keep fighting. And, you know, he was asked repeatedly 645 00:38:28.909 --> 00:38:31.320 by reporters who came into the scrum at different times, 646 00:38:31.409 --> 00:38:35.800 but he acted like, you know, he's particularly nasty to 647 00:38:35.900 --> 00:38:38.300 one reporter who happens to be a racialized woman, which, 648 00:38:38.340 --> 00:38:43.739 you know, might be or might not, but, you know, 649 00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:47.099 it's a question worth asking. What's the next step? And 650 00:38:47.139 --> 00:38:49.659 he's like, well, you haven't been paying attention. It's like, no, 651 00:38:49.679 --> 00:38:50.760 she just got here, but. 652 00:38:52.409 --> 00:38:55.389 We are getting rid of Danielle Smith. We need a 653 00:38:55.530 --> 00:38:59.739 leader of the UCP who is a separatist, not one 654 00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:03.980 of these federalists. And he said his good friend, his 655 00:39:04.039 --> 00:39:09.469 good friend, Pierre St. Paul Plamondon, PSPP, who, do you 656 00:39:09.489 --> 00:39:11.550 think PSPP knows who Jeffrey Rapp is? 657 00:39:11.889 --> 00:39:12.070 No. 658 00:39:12.630 --> 00:39:12.809 Yeah. 659 00:39:13.869 --> 00:39:17.309 I don't think he does. Though Jeffrey Rapp did learn tonight, 660 00:39:17.550 --> 00:39:21.130 does speak French. He did an interview with TVA in French. 661 00:39:21.389 --> 00:39:22.920 Pretty good French? 662 00:39:23.260 --> 00:39:23.500 Yeah. 663 00:39:23.579 --> 00:39:25.960 Better than me? I mean, I don't speak French, but 664 00:39:25.980 --> 00:39:27.260 he sounded good. He sounded confident. 665 00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:27.510 English. 666 00:39:30.170 --> 00:39:33.659 Is, you know, I mean, good, but like, you know. 667 00:39:34.469 --> 00:39:38.380 He's articulate. He's articulate, right? He's so articulate. He's confident. 668 00:39:38.420 --> 00:39:41.480 He's a very confident speaker. In fact, once the scrum ended, 669 00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:44.360 a bunch of attendees just went up to Raph and 670 00:39:44.380 --> 00:39:47.360 was like, you killed them. Like, great job. And I 671 00:39:47.380 --> 00:39:51.130 think he performed well. He did for the context, right? 672 00:39:51.210 --> 00:39:57.929 Like he's just pathological liar, right? Like just allegedly, allegedly 673 00:39:58.300 --> 00:40:02.699 a pathological liar. I've heard that, but I can't confirm it. 674 00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:08.420 Other people say not me. I would never, I would never, uh, 675 00:40:08.500 --> 00:40:10.760 they're cutting our live stream. They don't want to. 676 00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:11.139 Yeah. 677 00:40:11.980 --> 00:40:17.150 Uh, yeah. Which I, I would never say such a thing. But, 678 00:40:17.210 --> 00:40:19.280 you know, some people say it, and it's worth asking. 679 00:40:20.599 --> 00:40:23.719 Arshi, for example, from the chat here, speaking French helps 680 00:40:23.739 --> 00:40:28.000 you scam into languages. Also, I will note that Jeremy is, 681 00:40:28.199 --> 00:40:30.679 in fact, wearing an Independence hat. 682 00:40:31.949 --> 00:40:35.530 I am Albertan. I mean, it is Independence, but it 683 00:40:35.570 --> 00:40:38.730 could be... I am Albertan. I live here. Don't I? 684 00:40:38.789 --> 00:40:41.949 You're Albertan. I am Albertan, yeah. Everyone in this room 685 00:40:41.969 --> 00:40:42.429 is Albertan. 686 00:40:43.050 --> 00:40:44.440 No, there's some people from other places. 687 00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:45.780 In this room? 688 00:40:45.820 --> 00:40:47.019 Le Press is in the room here. 689 00:40:47.260 --> 00:40:52.219 Le Press is here? Yeah, that's Le Press. That dude? Yeah. 690 00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:52.300 Oh. 691 00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:55.139 Let's get him. 692 00:40:55.159 --> 00:40:57.730 No, no, no. 693 00:40:57.750 --> 00:40:58.889 To be on the podcast. 694 00:40:58.909 --> 00:41:00.250 Yeah, yeah, that's what I meant. Let's get him to 695 00:41:00.269 --> 00:41:02.809 come on the stream. I think he's filing. Yeah, I 696 00:41:02.849 --> 00:41:03.690 think he has better things to do. 697 00:41:03.690 --> 00:41:06.130 As our Eastern fellows know, it's quite late. 698 00:41:06.210 --> 00:41:12.280 Yeah, good on you people. You Ratlanders for staying up. 699 00:41:12.730 --> 00:41:13.969 Is that what we call them? 700 00:41:13.989 -->

00:41:14.429 Ratlanders? 701 00:41:14.690 --> 00:41:18.829 Actually, Arfi introduced me to that term quite recently, which 702 00:41:18.889 --> 00:41:24.690 he took from Colby Collin. Friend of the podcast, Colby Collin. 703 00:41:25.349 --> 00:41:28.070 There's an excerpt from a new episode of The Orchard Cast. 704 00:41:28.699 --> 00:41:31.929 Find the show wherever you get your podcasts, at readtheorchard.com 705 00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:35.880 and at harbingermedianetwork.com. You're listening to Harbinger Showcase on your 706 00:41:35.900 --> 00:41:39.280 local campus and community radio station. I'm Harbinger Director Andre 707 00:41:39.300 --> 00:41:52.050 Goulet in Montreal. And finally, Thank you. Broadcasting since 2014, 708 00:41:52.050 --> 00:41:56.530 Vancouver-based Seriously Wrong is a bi-weekly utopian leftist comedy podcast 709 00:41:56.750 --> 00:42:00.429 featuring co-hosts Aaron and Sean and guests in conversations exploring 710 00:42:00.449 --> 00:42:04.269 topics like rent strikes, the justice system, airplane food, and more. Like, 711 00:42:04.429 --> 00:42:06.969 on this excerpt from a recent episode, talk about the 712 00:42:07.070 --> 00:42:11.929 astounding new progressive supermajority on Vancouver's city council, park board, 713 00:42:12.090 --> 00:42:15.659 and school board, and how co-host Sean's campaign management of 714 00:42:15.780 --> 00:42:18.760 COPE helped the city's democratic socialists get more votes than 715 00:42:18.880 --> 00:42:21.079 any other party. Now, here's the show. 716 00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:27.019 Vancouver is toast. Welcome to the communist, Mamdani-like governed disaster 717 00:42:27.059 --> 00:42:29.110 with defund the police, mayor, and council. 718 00:42:29.989 --> 00:42:34.309 The municipal election was a nuclear disaster for all of 719 00:42:34.369 --> 00:42:37.250 Metro Vancouver. What a f * * * ing travesty. 720 00:42:38.329 --> 00:42:41.829 Vancouver is totally f * * * ed. Like, beyond repair. 721 00:42:42.329 --> 00:42:43.230 Well done, lib. 722 00:42:43.070 --> 00:42:43.570 D * * * s. 723 00:42:43.969 --> 00:42:48.070 It's beyond disaster. It's the end of the city. The 724 00:42:48.110 --> 00:42:51.210 drug use, homelessness, crime encampments. 725 00:42:51.429 --> 00:42:55.489 Disastrous election results. 10 of 11 seats are hard left. 726 00:42:55.730 --> 00:43:00.920 A red-green coalition of communists and Islamists have commandeered Vancouver 727 00:43:00.980 --> 00:43:01.619 City Hall. 728 00:43:01.900 --> 00:43:05.440 WTF happened with Vancouver's election? They voted for the dumbest 729 00:43:05.480 --> 00:43:09.179 people possible, giving them a sweep. Anti-capitalist commies who want 730 00:43:09.199 --> 00:43:11.659 to double down on bike lanes and drugs while defunding 731 00:43:11.699 --> 00:43:12.219 the police. 732 00:43:12.559 --> 00:43:16.559 Property values will go even lower. Taxpayers will pay even more. 733 00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:21.250 Chaos and zombies in the streets. Vancouver is f * 734 00:43:21.219 --> 00:43:21.260 * * ed. 735 00:43:22.269 --> 00:43:24.969 We're going to get four years of class war, drug war, 736 00:43:25.130 --> 00:43:26.710 and Palestine bulls * * *. 737 00:43:26.610 --> 00:43:30.409 First order of business in communist Vancouver. Sending all the 738 00:43:30.469 --> 00:43:33.369 right-wing Twitter accounts to the hard labor camp. 739 00:43:33.820 --> 00:43:38.079 COPE was busy at universities drumming up support. Students educated 740 00:43:38.139 --> 00:43:39.880 on a diet of woke ideology. 741 00:43:40.260 --> 00:43:44.019 They solicit support from foreign interests to consolidate power. 742 00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:47.440 There goes fiscal discipline and any attempt at reducing crime 743 00:43:47.480 --> 00:43:50.820 or bureaucracy. That's what happens when renters and rent control 744 00:43:50.840 --> 00:43:52.900 departments outvote those that pay the bills. 745 00:43:53.219 --> 00:43:57.840 Jay Guevara is leading city council, followed by Fidel Castro, 746 00:43:57.929 --> 00:44:00.250 Joseph Stalin, and Leon Trotsky. 747 00:44:00.869 --> 00:44:03.760 Pete Fry and his band of communists just took Vancouver, 748 00:44:04.119 --> 00:44:06.739 so get ready for more drug dens, more people left 749 00:44:06.780 --> 00:44:09.460 to spiral and die on the sidewalks, more stabbings. 750 00:44:09.800 --> 00:44:13.780 All because commies want to monopolize industries and kill innovation 751 00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:17.150 and housing, doing the same things as the federal liberals. 752 00:44:17.809 --> 00:44:21.730 Vancouver just elected Cope's Solomon Yikiran, who decries the cruel 753 00:44:21.849 --> 00:44:25.719 austerity of capitalism and yells, we didn't start this class war, 754 00:44:25.860 --> 00:44:26.900 but we're going to end it. 755 00:44:27.340 --> 00:44:29.260 Voters, is this what you signed up for? 756 00:44:29.610 --> 00:44:33.710 Cope Vancouver City Councillor Chloe Leslie claims that every single 757 00:44:33.809 --> 00:44:38.159 billionaire is a result of a policy failure, recycled American 758 00:44:38.300 --> 00:44:39.619 class war rhetoric. 759 00:44:39.940 --> 00:44:44.860 Indian National and Vancouver City Councillor-elect Devyani Singh wants non-citizens 760 00:44:44.940 --> 00:44:48.389 to vote and claims that the cause of the affordability crisis, 761 00:44:48.449 --> 00:44:52.190 the housing crisis, and the climate crisis is all about, quote, 762 00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:53.639 corporate greed. 763 00:44:53.949 --> 00:44:57.829 Sean Orr wants the destruction of Canada, and he's starting 764 00:44:57.869 --> 00:44:59.570 with the destruction of Vancouver. 765 00:44:59.690 --> 00:45:03.389 Sean Orr needs professional help. He is deeply, deeply degenerate. 766 00:45:03.650 --> 00:45:04.690 No hope with cope. 767 00:45:05.170 --> 00:45:09.789 A communist grifter voted in by unions, losers on welfare, 768 00:45:10.030 --> 00:45:10.769 and druggies. 769 00:45:10.829

--> 00:45:13.309 Sean Orr is a self-hating white man who wants to 770 00:45:13.329 --> 00:45:15.949 genocide white people for the crime of existing while white. 771 00:45:15.969 --> 00:45:20.050 The self-proclaimed communist just got the most votes of any 772 00:45:20.130 --> 00:45:21.690 Vancouver city councillor. 773 00:45:21.929 --> 00:45:24.760 Sean Orr, Cope, and Derek O'Keefe declares we're part of 774 00:45:24.800 --> 00:45:29.380 an international movement. Then alleged Seattle Antifa activists arrive and 775 00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:31.639 fights erupt in downtown Vancouver. 776 00:45:32.039 --> 00:45:33.519 You can't make this s * * * up. 777 00:45:33.599 --> 00:45:36.559 If you own property in Vancouver, it's time to leave. 778 00:45:36.599 --> 00:45:39.739 If you vote Cope, every statue or monument in Vancouver 779 00:45:39.800 --> 00:45:43.099 they dislike will be torn down like the ravenous fascists 780 00:45:43.139 --> 00:45:43.519 they are. 781 00:45:44.590 --> 00:45:47.860 Welcome to a s * * * city, Vancouver. You 782 00:45:47.889 --> 00:45:51.460 will get what you voted for. So no b * 783 00:45:50.980 --> 00:45:51.460 * * hing. 784 00:45:51.619 --> 00:45:53.360 This is what you allowed to happen. 785 00:45:55.380 --> 00:45:58.159 So in case it's not clear, those are just a 786 00:45:58.199 --> 00:46:01.780 bunch of tweets. A bunch of real tweets that we 787 00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:02.239 just read. 788 00:46:02.260 --> 00:46:04.039 Are you sick and tired? 789 00:46:04.059 --> 00:46:10.039 Immobilized by fear? Let me tell you hope is here. 790 00:46:10.099 --> 00:46:11.719 Run towards the future. 791 00:46:51.909 --> 00:46:54.809 Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Seriously Wrong Podcast. 792 00:46:55.030 --> 00:46:57.889 We are your two humble hosts, each more humble than 793 00:46:57.929 --> 00:47:01.110 the last, and each... More of a host than the last. 794 00:47:01.349 --> 00:47:04.510 Yeah, and this podcast is more of a podcast than 795 00:47:04.570 --> 00:47:06.050 the last, or less of a podcast. We're going in 796 00:47:06.070 --> 00:47:08.389 the other direction. This is less of a podcast than 797 00:47:08.429 --> 00:47:09.550 the last, each one. 798 00:47:09.769 --> 00:47:13.469 Yeah, we're moving towards some new yet undefined territory. 799 00:47:13.489 --> 00:47:13.570 Yeah. 800 00:47:14.150 --> 00:47:16.869 That's kind of like an evolutionary descendant of podcasts, but 801 00:47:16.909 --> 00:47:18.250 it's much better in every way. 802 00:47:18.269 --> 00:47:18.570 Yeah, yeah. 803 00:47:18.590 --> 00:47:20.750 It doesn't have that kind of patina of like, ooh, 804 00:47:20.829 --> 00:47:22.250 podcasts that you sometimes get. 805 00:47:22.329 --> 00:47:23.789 Another podcast. 806 00:47:24.269 --> 00:47:24.489 Yeah. 807 00:47:24.769 --> 00:47:30.309 We're an extremely long-run Canadian community. left-wing politics comedy podcast 808 00:47:30.329 --> 00:47:32.769 someone pointed out we're not the longest running we said 809 00:47:32.789 --> 00:47:35.789 we'd stop saying that if someone proved it was not true. 810 00:47:35.670 --> 00:47:39.130 Someone gave an example yeah the longer running canadian independent 811 00:47:39.269 --> 00:47:42.469 comedy podcast so we withdraw that comment with apologies but 812 00:47:42.510 --> 00:47:45.769 we do add some more modifiers until it is true. 813 00:47:46.110 --> 00:47:49.909 We're definitely the longest running utopian comedy podcast of all 814 00:47:50.030 --> 00:47:51.650 not even just canadian. 815 00:47:51.110 --> 00:47:55.130 Yeah maybe even independent political comedy podcasts. 816 00:47:54.820 --> 00:47:57.090 We'll figure it out. We're the longest running something, and 817 00:47:57.119 --> 00:47:58.170 it's very impressive. 818 00:47:58.190 --> 00:48:00.789 And it's a great show, regardless of the length of 819 00:48:00.809 --> 00:48:03.539 it going. Right, right. And that's really what matters. That's true, too. 820 00:48:03.550 --> 00:48:06.969 That's why people tune in. So I'm Sean. This is Aaron. 821 00:48:07.150 --> 00:48:09.179 Yeah, it's been a little while. We've been off. You've 822 00:48:09.219 --> 00:48:11.739 been busy, busy, like a little bee. 823 00:48:11.840 --> 00:48:13.039 I've been a busy bee, yeah. 824 00:48:13.139 --> 00:48:18.460 Vancouver municipal election happened a few days ago and turned 825 00:48:18.500 --> 00:48:22.280 out really well. Every single candidate that was running with COPE, 826 00:48:22.510 --> 00:48:25.800 the political party you were managing for, has won is 827 00:48:25.900 --> 00:48:29.389 on the council. Got the top amount of votes. Sean 828 00:48:29.469 --> 00:48:31.690 Orr got the most votes of any councillor. 829 00:48:31.710 --> 00:48:33.690 Top of the ballot. Not even close. 830 00:48:33.849 --> 00:48:38.329 I'm pretty sure Cope got the highest average votes for 831 00:48:38.389 --> 00:48:39.369 council candidates. 832 00:48:39.449 --> 00:48:43.480 Biggest vote share. Did really well. We crushed. It was awesome. 833 00:48:43.820 --> 00:48:47.619 Communists have taken over Vancouver and we're loving it. 834 00:48:48.539 --> 00:48:48.780 Yeah. 835 00:48:54.050 --> 00:48:58.309 A seismic shift in Vancouver politics. Saturday marked a pivot 836 00:48:58.349 --> 00:49:02.159 away from the center-right to a left-leaning council led by 837 00:49:02.199 --> 00:49:04.119 the city's first green mayor. 838 00:49:05.059 --> 00:49:05.760 Where to start? 839 00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:09.039 We had Sean on the show at the beginning of 840 00:49:09.079 --> 00:49:11.440 last year before. 841 00:49:11.199 --> 00:49:11.619 When I was. 842 00:49:11.949 --> 00:49:14.690 Yeah, before he ran the first time or during the 843 00:49:14.730 --> 00:49:15.869 by-election last year. 844 00:49:16.210 --> 00:49:16.489 Yeah. 845 00:49:16.949 --> 00:49:20.780 So Sean won that by-election, was on City council for 846 00:49:20.780 --> 00:49:24.440 18 months, and we kind of recruited a team.

847 00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:28.059 And yeah, the results have come in. 848 00:49:28.659 --> 00:49:31.800 Four candidates for city council, four candidates for school board, 849 00:49:31.860 --> 00:49:33.980 and four candidates to park board were all elected. And 850 00:49:34.559 --> 00:49:38.809 Sean Orr was the top vote-getter in Vancouver City Council history. 851 00:49:39.130 --> 00:49:42.989 He got more votes for City Council than Ken Sim, 852 00:49:43.050 --> 00:49:45.710 the old mayor who just got voted out, got for mayor. 853 00:49:46.030 --> 00:49:46.909 Significantly more. 854 00:49:47.050 --> 00:49:48.989 Which is, yeah, not usual. 855 00:49:49.170 --> 00:49:50.949 Yeah, usually the mayor has the most votes. 856 00:49:51.250 --> 00:49:52.719 Because there's fewer options. 857 00:49:52.820 --> 00:49:55.079 Although Pete Fry, who ran with the Green Party, first 858 00:49:55.360 --> 00:49:58.940 green mayor in Canadian history... Did have the most votes. 859 00:49:58.960 --> 00:50:00.780 He had almost 100,000 votes. 860 00:50:01.079 --> 00:50:01.300 Yeah. 861 00:50:01.500 --> 00:50:02.980 Which is also the most votes that a mayor has 862 00:50:03.019 --> 00:50:06.920 gotten in Vancouver Canadian history. And Susie Ma on school board, 863 00:50:06.940 --> 00:50:09.280 this really makes me happy because I've worked with Susie 864 00:50:09.320 --> 00:50:13.570 for years now. She was like the only left-wing person 865 00:50:13.630 --> 00:50:17.650 on this super right-wing dominated school board for four years, 866 00:50:18.190 --> 00:50:21.050 chipping away at it by herself. And she was reelected 867 00:50:21.570 --> 00:50:24.239 with more votes than Sean Orr got. She got the 868 00:50:24.300 --> 00:50:27.599 most votes of any school board candidate in Vancouver's history. 869 00:50:28.219 --> 00:50:32.130 And actually, because Vancouver runs an at-large school board and 870 00:50:32.269 --> 00:50:35.989 most cities don't, she actually got the most votes for 871 00:50:36.030 --> 00:50:38.630 a school board candidate in Canadian history. 872 00:50:39.300 --> 00:50:39.550 Nice. 873 00:50:39.880 --> 00:50:42.380 And she's awesome. There's just so much to it. Like, 874 00:50:42.400 --> 00:50:45.760 should we start from the beginning on what this all is? Like, 875 00:50:45.840 --> 00:50:49.230 how this happened or what? There was this deeply unpopular 876 00:50:49.269 --> 00:50:50.789 incumbent mayor, Ken Sim. 877 00:50:51.210 --> 00:50:54.489 So you're investigating how to become a Bitcoin-friendly city, whether 878 00:50:54.530 --> 00:50:58.820 that's having a Bitcoin reserve or accepting payments for property taxes, 879 00:50:58.860 --> 00:51:02.239 parking tickets. What's your plan on kind of like enshrining 880 00:51:02.579 --> 00:51:05.780 or making sure that Vancouver then stays a Bitcoin city? 881 00:51:05.800 --> 00:51:07.699 Yeah, you know, and look, it's going to be an 882 00:51:07.739 --> 00:51:11.340 uphill battle, but we're committed to it. We have a three... 883 00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:15.940 A three-step plan. But because it surrounded Bitcoin and because 884 00:51:16.099 --> 00:51:19.480 we are early and because of all the misinformation out there, 885 00:51:20.030 --> 00:51:24.090 there were politicians that were asking, what would the voters think? 886 00:51:24.989 --> 00:51:27.849 As opposed to, is this the right thing to do? 887 00:51:28.769 --> 00:51:31.610 This is a hill worth dying on. And so if 888 00:51:31.809 --> 00:51:35.869 it means that I may not win the mayoral election 889 00:51:35.889 --> 00:51:38.590 in 2026, it would have been worth it. 890 00:51:39.139 --> 00:51:42.480 Ken Sim and ABC, they won by like 20,000 votes 891 00:51:42.860 --> 00:51:44.070 in 2022. 892 00:51:44.050 --> 00:51:47.889 The gap was pretty big, brutal, demoralizing. 893 00:51:48.670 --> 00:51:51.590 Like the common sense in 2024 was basically like Ken 894 00:51:51.630 --> 00:51:54.909 Sim was like invincible, that Vancouver had moved to the right, 895 00:51:55.510 --> 00:51:57.969 that it was hopeless, that all the left-wing parties were 896 00:51:57.989 --> 00:52:01.760 too divided, that he would win again. And Cope, we 897 00:52:01.800 --> 00:52:04.099 had the slogan evict Ken Sim starting in 2024. Cope, 898 00:52:06.610 --> 00:52:10.179 which is a democratic socialist party. And it's kind of 899 00:52:10.199 --> 00:52:12.230 big tent too. Like there's just people who are more 900 00:52:12.289 --> 00:52:15.530 kind of like, I guess, like wonky progressives in it, too, 901 00:52:15.710 --> 00:52:18.650 and stuff like that. But the ideological thrust is more 902 00:52:18.670 --> 00:52:21.550 of like a democratic socialist thing. Just to clarify from 903 00:52:21.570 --> 00:52:23.119 all the ops on Twitter we were reading. 904 00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:24.579 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 905 00:52:24.659 --> 00:52:27.860 You know, when someone's saying, oh, they're communists, just like 906 00:52:27.900 --> 00:52:30.760 the Federal Liberal Party, you know that they have no 907 00:52:30.820 --> 00:52:31.880 idea what they're talking about. 908 00:52:31.900 --> 00:52:32.219 Yeah. 909 00:52:32.239 --> 00:52:36.739 Because our Federal Liberal Party isn't even like SOC Dem either, 910 00:52:36.880 --> 00:52:40.900 especially right now. They're pretty center right. And yeah, cope 911 00:52:41.519 --> 00:52:46.239 much more. Like, you know, solid left, sock damn socialist, 912 00:52:46.300 --> 00:52:47.420 democratic socialist. 913 00:52:48.039 --> 00:52:50.510 Yeah, and it is true that this city council is 914 00:52:51.210 --> 00:52:55.510 probably the most left-wing city council in Canada. Probably the 915 00:52:55.550 --> 00:52:58.119 most left-wing city council in Canada for some time. 916 00:52:58.690 --> 00:53:00.090 Yeah, I don't know. This stuff has still hit. It's 917 00:53:00.110 --> 00:53:01.650 only been a couple of days. It's still hitting me 918 00:53:01.690 --> 00:53:02.090 in waves. 919

00:53:02.130 --> 00:53:06.900 I've just been really focused on the day-to-day elections. Yeah, 920 00:53:06.920 --> 00:53:09.400 just like how many volunteers are out on this day 921 00:53:09.460 --> 00:53:12.280 and which neighborhoods are they going to? And, oh, shit, 922 00:53:12.320 --> 00:53:16.320 we didn't send the leaflets there in time and all that. And, oh, man, 923 00:53:16.340 --> 00:53:18.360 there's a debate that we didn't put on the calendar 924 00:53:18.400 --> 00:53:20.320 and it's tonight and we have to figure out who's 925 00:53:20.360 --> 00:53:23.159 going and, you know, all that running around. 926 00:53:23.539 --> 00:53:26.440 Yeah, detailed organizing, managing. 927 00:53:26.460 --> 00:53:26.539 Yeah. 928 00:53:27.050 --> 00:53:29.530 Yeah, because also the other thing in Vancouver for there's 929 00:53:29.550 --> 00:53:33.230 also very strict campaign finance laws, which is good. So 930 00:53:33.250 --> 00:53:37.280 these are low budget campaigns covering an area that has 931 00:53:37.510 --> 00:53:40.079 like three quarters of a million people, half. 932 00:53:39.920 --> 00:53:40.739 A million voters. 933 00:53:41.739 --> 00:53:45.960 And we ran this with in the last two months, 934 00:53:46.019 --> 00:53:50.050 we had eight staff for half a million voters. And 935 00:53:50.119 --> 00:53:53.570 before that, we had two staff, including me, for like 936 00:53:54.010 --> 00:53:56.409 four months. And the thing we were running into is 937 00:53:56.429 --> 00:53:58.989 there's all this great energy, all these volunteers, everyone who 938 00:53:59.030 --> 00:54:02.010 wants to help. And we didn't have the staff capacity 939 00:54:02.090 --> 00:54:05.559 to like do the basic stuff of keeping the lights on, 940 00:54:05.619 --> 00:54:08.559 keeping everyone supported and accept all this help in a 941 00:54:08.599 --> 00:54:10.019 way that was going to be coherent. 942 00:54:10.219 --> 00:54:11.820 And there was a long. 943 00:54:11.619 --> 00:54:13.639 Period where it's just dark night of the soul, just 944 00:54:13.760 --> 00:54:17.150 so stressful trying to figure out how to honor all 945 00:54:17.190 --> 00:54:19.989 this work, but also to like not not just have 946 00:54:20.050 --> 00:54:21.250 like anything. 947 00:54:20.969 --> 00:54:23.869 Goes, you know, like, Hey, well, yeah, you do social media. Sure. 948 00:54:23.909 --> 00:54:25.280 Start tweeting. Nice to meet you. 949 00:54:25.920 --> 00:54:26.199 Right. 950 00:54:26.280 --> 00:54:26.539 Right. 951 00:54:26.900 --> 00:54:29.900 Integrating all the people who are excited and want to 952 00:54:29.960 --> 00:54:33.719 help in a way that's coherent with the existing project. 953 00:54:33.800 --> 00:54:36.550 And yeah, we made lots of progress on that. 954 00:54:36.590 --> 00:54:38.010 We made lots of progress on a lot of things 955 00:54:38.030 --> 00:54:40.969 that were in a position to just keep building and 956 00:54:41.659 --> 00:54:44.869 People always talk about

the value of organizing between elections. 957 00:54:45.130 --> 00:54:47.909 And I think with the mandate that came from voters 958 00:54:47.969 --> 00:54:51.030 in Vancouver and the support that we have and people 959 00:54:51.070 --> 00:54:54.980 are invested in the organization. Like we had almost 500 960 00:54:54.980 --> 00:54:58.960 volunteers out in the streets on election day talking to 961 00:54:59.000 --> 00:55:02.090 voters hitting doors. We knocked over 10,000 doors in one day. And, 962 00:55:02.099 --> 00:55:07.690 you know, compared to say like a Mamdani operation or whatever, 963 00:55:08.449 --> 00:55:11.739 much smaller. It's one-tenth per capita of what Mamdani was 964 00:55:11.760 --> 00:55:12.480 doing at the end. 965 00:55:13.019 --> 00:55:13.519 But we were. 966 00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:18.619 Functioning on one-fiftieth of the budget. Also, just, yeah, all 967 00:55:18.659 --> 00:55:19.960 the people are so f * * * ing cool. 968 00:55:20.579 --> 00:55:23.260 The COPE crew, the people, like, invested in this, who 969 00:55:23.300 --> 00:55:26.380 got involved in stuff. On election day, I knew we 970 00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:29.199 were going to win because I was seeing the data 971 00:55:29.260 --> 00:55:32.190 coming in. And I was trying to keep, I was 972 00:55:32.250 --> 00:55:34.519 joking to people all day, keep the despair alive. 973 00:55:34.539 --> 00:55:36.599 Until the very last moment. 974 00:55:36.619 --> 00:55:37.360 Don't give it up. 975 00:55:37.400 --> 00:55:37.639 Yeah. 976 00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:42.659 I was driving across the city to deliver some leaflets 977 00:55:42.699 --> 00:55:45.070 and then get some doors before the end of the day. 978 00:55:45.300 --> 00:55:47.670 I always like to go on the doors during that 979 00:55:47.710 --> 00:55:51.630 last day. And driving through the downtown east side and 980 00:55:51.670 --> 00:55:54.690 my window was rolled down and there was a guy 981 00:55:54.730 --> 00:55:57.449 on the street. talking to someone else. And so downtown 982 00:55:57.510 --> 00:55:59.329 Eastside for, you know, I assume a lot of people 983 00:55:59.349 --> 00:56:01.289 do know, but it's the poorest postal code in Canada. 984 00:56:01.349 --> 00:56:04.349 It's kind of like the place that the hateful freaks 985 00:56:04.429 --> 00:56:06.590 focus on because there's a lot of people who are 986 00:56:06.710 --> 00:56:08.530 either homeless or on the edge of homelessness. 987 00:56:08.769 --> 00:56:11.119 People who are drug users, et cetera. Had the window down. 988 00:56:11.139 --> 00:56:13.420 I heard a guy saying to another guy, like, did 989 00:56:13.460 --> 00:56:16.820 you vote? Another person's like, vote, vote for what? And 990 00:56:16.880 --> 00:56:18.739 it's like, it's a city election. We got to get 991 00:56:18.800 --> 00:56:22.480 Ken Sim. He's an ass. And they're like, who do 992 00:56:22.500 --> 00:56:26.340 you vote for? He's like, I voted for C-O-P-E, whatever 993 00:56:26.380 --> 00:56:29.650 that is. And I heard that just through the open window, 994 00:56:30.090 --> 00:56:31.489 like driving. 995 00:56:31.130 --> 00:56:33.730 Through to go to the West End. C-O-P-E. 996 00:56:34.090 --> 00:56:36.110 There's so many things like that, too, where I was like, yeah, 997 00:56:36.130 --> 00:56:37.969 we're winning. This is a broken containment. 998 00:56:52.449 --> 00:56:54.769 There's a highlight from a new episode of Seriously Wrong. 999 00:56:55.050 --> 00:56:59.639 Find the show archives at seriouslywrong.com, at harbingermedianetwork.com, or wherever 1000 00:56:59.659 --> 00:57:03.420 you get your podcasts. You've been listening to Harbinger Showcase 1001 00:57:03.480 --> 00:57:06.380 on your local campus and community radio station. This episode 1002 00:57:06.400 --> 00:57:08.840 has been brought to you by University of Manitoba Press' 1003 00:57:08.960 --> 00:57:13.190 Truth Before Reconciliation, Confronting Residential School Denialism. Find it at 1004 00:57:13.210 --> 00:57:17.019 your local library or independent bookstore and at uofmpress.ca. Follow 1005 00:57:17.039 --> 00:57:19.469 us on Blue Sky and Instagram for updates on new episodes, 1006 00:57:19.610 --> 00:57:22.409 and subscribe to the Harbinger and Unrigged newsletter for a 1007 00:57:22.449 --> 00:57:26.750 weekly Wednesday roundup from Canada's cross-country community of 92 socially 1008 00:57:26.829 --> 00:57:29.860 and politically progressive podcasts. We'll be back with a new 1009 00:57:29.909 --> 00:57:33.219 episode next week. Until then, I'm Harbinger Director Andre Goulet 1010 00:57:33.300 --> 00:57:36.059 in Montreal. Now back to your regularly scheduled community radio 1011 00:57:36.099 --> 00:57:36.800 station programming.