Full Transcript for Peter Capaldi talks Doctor Who's next chapter, his upcoming album & dinner with Robert De Niro (4K)

loving the get-up that you've got at the moment. 42 00:01:52.410 --> 00:01:54.372 It's very strong. 43 00:01:55.673 --> 00:01:56.473 This is Paul Smith? 44 00:01:56.733 --> 00:01:57.754 Yes, this is Paul Smith. 45 00:01:58.695 --> 00:02:03.398 But no, I had to erase the fisherman's friend jumper. 46 00:02:05.213 --> 00:02:05.954 There were drawings. 47 00:02:05.994 --> 00:02:07.377 People were doing drawings of the jump. 48 00:02:07.397 --> 00:02:10.323 They loved it. 49 00:02:10.343 --> 00:02:13.188 I'd be ashamed. 50 00:02:14.551 --> 00:02:16.354 Yes, I didn't know that podcasts were visible. 51 00:02:19.357 --> 00:02:27.383 thank you so much again for that, for coming on that first time, because it was such a pleasure, obviously being admirers of yours, but also people watched the episode and really dug it. 52 00:02:27.503 --> 00:02:31.105 And when we did that episode, you were just about to, you were warming up for your tour. 53 00:02:31.345 --> 00:02:31.545 Yeah. 54 00:02:31.585 --> 00:02:32.946 That you were going to do a few months later. 55 00:02:33.107 --> 00:02:33.287 Yeah. 56 00:02:33.427 --> 00:02:35.188 And that's obviously now in the rear view mirror, you did it. 57 00:02:35.268 --> 00:02:36.369 I came along as we were saying. 58 00:02:36.389 --> 00:02:37.269 Yeah, it's great to see you. 59 00:02:37.289 --> 00:02:37.430 Yeah. 60 00:02:37.450 --> 00:02:38.110 Thanks for coming. 61 00:02:38.210 --> 00:02:38.570 No worries. 62 00:02:38.590 --> 00:02:39.410 It was a great show. 63 00:02:39.550 --> 00:02:40.651 Thank you very much. 64 00:02:40.691 --> 00:02:41.811 You went all over, right? 65 00:02:41.831 --> 00:02:46.532 You went, you know, obviously 100 Club in London where I saw you, but you went up north to Glasgow and all over. 66 00:02:46.932 --> 00:02:48.093 What was it like, the experience? 67 00:02:48.193 --> 00:02:49.053 It was fantastic. 68 00:02:49.133 --> 00:02:57.355 I mean, we played in Newcastle and Leeds and Birmingham and Manchester and all of these places and all at humble venues. 69 00:02:57.415 --> 00:03:03.297 You know, when I'd been in a band when I was at art school, we never played anything bigger than a band. 70 00:03:03.937 --> 00:03:08.581 you know, a sticky floored cellar underneath a bar. 71 00:03:09.122 --> 00:03:09.862 Not unlike this. 72 00:03:09.882 --> 00:03:11.063 This is quite big for us. 73 00:03:11.083 --> 00:03:12.004 This would be quite large. 74 00:03:12.024 --> 00:03:15.587 This would be like a stadium venue for us. 75 00:03:16.308 --> 00:03:18.910 So I was very happy to maintain that. 76 00:03:19.991 --> 00:03:21.632 I like playing that size of space. 77 00:03:21.873 --> 00:03:24.635 Also, I didn't want to play to half-empty places. 78 00:03:24.655 --> 00:03:27.497 You know, you could go and book into bigger venues, but... 79 00:03:28.622 --> 00:03:31.804 I had no guarantee of selling enough tickets to fill it. 80 00:03:32.565 --> 00:03:35.106 Whereas the smaller venues, I like the smaller venues. 81 00:03:35.126 --> 00:03:35.827 They're more fun. 82 00:03:36.227 --> 00:03:37.328 You're closer to the audience. 83 00:03:38.108 --> 00:03:41.551 And the people who are there want to come. 84 00:03:42.351 --> 00:03:43.092 So that was great. 85 00:03:43.132 --> 00:03:43.672 That was lovely. 86 00:03:43.692 --> 00:03:44.593 It was strange, though. 87 00:03:44.613 --> 00:03:46.554 I mean, I love playing with the band. 88 00:03:47.954 --> 00:03:52.536 because they're all young and they all would come in and say, you should listen to this and you should listen to that. 89 00:03:52.556 --> 00:03:59.020 And they'd make me listen to all these different artists and help develop my ear a bit more. 90 00:03:59.620 --> 00:04:09.945 And also just playing with people who could play when I was at, you know, with all due respect to my, and I include myself in this, we couldn't really play. 91 00:04:11.539 --> 00:04:13.180 when we started out in our band. 92 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:15.981 And we never developed much musically, really. 93 00:04:16.841 --> 00:04:19.262 So this band can play. 94 00:04:20.803 --> 00:04:31.647 So that puts a whole different complexion on it and a whole different pressure on me, which is a good pressure to try and improve and try and work with them. 95 00:04:32.387 --> 00:04:35.869 But I noticed the thing happening, which was great. 96 00:04:36.849 --> 00:04:39.130 Because it was only a little too, it was only about two weeks. 97 00:04:40.171 --> 00:04:41.231 But in the second week, 98 00:04:42.440 --> 00:04:45.581 people were singing along to these songs. 99 00:04:46.542 --> 00:04:48.402 I thought, well, nobody knows these songs. 100 00:04:48.442 --> 00:04:52.604 They haven't been, you know, they're not in the hit parade, they're not in the charts. 101 00:04:52.624 --> 00:04:56.926 You can find them in Spotify or Apple Music if you look very hard. 102 00:04:58.986 --> 00:05:07.350 But I guess people start posting things at the start of the tour and the people who are coming in the next week, look at them. 103 00:05:07.950 --> 00:05:10.111 And I guess they, if they like them, 104 00:05:11.452 --> 00:05:12.153 they get into them. 105 00:05:12.213 --> 00:05:18.560 And so suddenly you find your venues with people singing along to all your songs, which is weird. 106 00:05:18.901 --> 00:05:20.502 I bet that's a great feeling though. 107 00:05:21.043 --> 00:05:21.624 It's lovely. 108 00:05:22.505 --> 00:05:25.208 And I also had the sense that you could really build something that wasn't 109 00:05:28.900 --> 00:05:41.827 that was quite humble in the sense that there's not a corporate appetite to create a thing that's going to make a lot of money. 110 00:05:43.828 --> 00:05:47.370 I think people still have an appetite for things that belong to them. 111 00:05:50.066 --> 00:05:59.332 And in a strange way, I saw that we could do that because I was just a guy, an old guy who liked playing music when he was young and was having a go at it

again. 112 00:06:00.773 --> 00:06:04.115 But I was, and am, sincere in that. 113 00:06:05.536 --> 00:06:10.960 So I think the people who like it like that. 114 00:06:12.840 --> 00:06:22.684 So I thought it's kind of contrary to the ethos of all of these arms of show business that I'm involved in, which is to try and keep things small. 115 00:06:24.545 --> 00:06:27.506 But maybe that's just my personality as well. 116 00:06:28.766 --> 00:06:35.929 I don't want to be overburdened with responsibilities and overburdened with ambitions and trying to get bigger. 117 00:06:37.209 --> 00:06:38.770 I'm quite happy with that. 118 00:06:40.452 --> 00:06:41.733 where I am and where we are. 119 00:06:42.053 --> 00:06:50.857 At the same time, I mean, we have a new album that we've been working on and I would like more people to hear that. 120 00:06:51.978 --> 00:06:59.342 So that will trigger a larger effort, I suppose, to reach people. 121 00:07:00.782 --> 00:07:02.083 But I think people enjoy 122 00:07:04.220 --> 00:07:05.241 finding their own things. 123 00:07:05.261 --> 00:07:06.041 And it's unusual. 124 00:07:06.522 --> 00:07:15.027 I'm in an unusual position because some people know me off the telly, which allows me to sell X amount of tickets. 125 00:07:16.729 --> 00:07:19.551 But the music aspect of it is largely unknown. 126 00:07:20.811 --> 00:07:24.714 So if people discover that and they like it, then it's theirs. 127 00:07:25.795 --> 00:07:27.536 And we can carry on and do more. 128 00:07:28.135 --> 00:07:32.678 I'm intrigued to ask about the new album because I really enjoyed the first two. 129 00:07:32.758 --> 00:07:33.238 Oh, thank you. 130 00:07:33.539 --> 00:07:40.403 And I think we talked about it when you came on last time, but there's a lot of muscle in those first two albums. 131 00:07:40.443 --> 00:07:42.484 For me anyway, a lot of muscle and they're quite heavy. 132 00:07:42.584 --> 00:07:49.709 And I really like a proper muscular rock sound with a great band, which you had and have. 133 00:07:50.029 --> 00:07:52.650 I mean, where are you planning with the new album that you're working on? 134 00:07:52.670 --> 00:07:54.211 Where are you taking that sound next? 135 00:07:54.271 --> 00:07:55.172 Where do you want to push it? 136 00:07:56.012 --> 00:08:02.676 Well, I'm very lucky because I'm working with Neil Davidge, who used to produce Massive Attack, who I know from... 137 00:08:03.236 --> 00:08:05.357 He did the music for our show, Criminal Record. 138 00:08:05.657 --> 00:08:14.962 And I had great times working with him on the music for the show, which he did with Mikey J. Asante. 139 00:08:16.343 --> 00:08:18.063 They were both wonderful musicians. 140 00:08:20.305 --> 00:08:24.847 And Neil came to a gig, and my wife said, do you think you might be interested in... 141 00:08:25.288 --> 00:08:27.166 He said, oh, yeah, I'd like to do some stuff. 142 00:08:28.771 --> 00:08:34.676 So I rather shyly sent him, because he's a proper producer

with, you know, proper track record. 143 00:08:34.716 --> 00:08:35.677 He's the real deal. 144 00:08:36.277 --> 00:08:37.278 So I was a bit scared. 145 00:08:38.179 --> 00:08:39.800 So I sent him all my demos. 146 00:08:40.220 --> 00:08:42.262 We said, yeah, I'll do this. 147 00:08:43.523 --> 00:08:57.274 And he had, within about three weeks, taken those like 11 demos, which I thought we'd have to get rid of, most of them, because I thought they were such rubbish songs, and transformed them. 148 00:08:58.256 --> 00:09:00.933 to something else, but also released something in them. 149 00:09:02.183 --> 00:09:16.195 that was there all the time, which was a slightly confirmed tale unfolding in them, which I thought was going to derail them. 150 00:09:17.075 --> 00:09:20.238 But in fact, in his hands, it released something. 151 00:09:20.638 --> 00:09:25.182 So they are quite Rocky, but they're also different kind of genres. 152 00:09:25.242 --> 00:09:25.743 He's great. 153 00:09:25.803 --> 00:09:27.784 So yeah, we're still at it. 154 00:09:28.105 --> 00:09:29.446 We haven't finished it yet. 155 00:09:30.026 --> 00:09:35.050 When you say like there's a tale in them, which kind of almost derailed them, do you mean like lyrically, like a story sense? 156 00:09:35.070 --> 00:09:37.512 Or do you mean like the tone in the music or both? 157 00:09:38.032 --> 00:09:56.907 I mean that they came very much from, from me, from some things that have been happening to me in my life fairly recently that were quite deep and, and, 158 00:09:59.137 --> 00:10:04.882 I wasn't sure whether that would work, whether that was the right thing to do. 159 00:10:05.842 --> 00:10:16.111 Whereas before the other albums had been a sort of just attempt having a go or doing this, get a few power chords going, get some synths going, get the drums, I love it, you know, bass, everything. 160 00:10:16.291 --> 00:10:18.492 Just seeing if that was possible. 161 00:10:19.413 --> 00:10:20.134 I think this... 162 00:10:21.575 --> 00:10:37.106 was an attempt to dig more deeply into the interface of between the human being, myself, meaning me, and whatever small musical skill I had. 163 00:10:39.728 --> 00:10:41.429 I don't know if that makes, it won't make any sense. 164 00:10:41.749 --> 00:10:44.211 I don't think anyone will, 165 00:10:45.776 --> 00:10:46.956 it's not a concept album. 166 00:10:46.976 --> 00:10:50.618 When I say there's a tale, I mean, I have a tale. 167 00:10:53.579 --> 00:10:54.239 And we all have. 168 00:10:55.420 --> 00:11:01.842 We all have a story of who we are and where we are and what that does to us. 169 00:11:03.643 --> 00:11:04.783 And so for the first time, 170 00:11:06.316 --> 00:11:31.074 that found its way into the music and a kind of more mature way because the other albums were really just experimenting with the idea of whether it was possible to write songs i'm making it sound very grand it's not very impressive it's not it's just what it is well it sounds like it's a it's much more of a personal record then than the other two 171 00:11:31.558 --> 00:11:45.883 I think I've just probably reached a stage where, for the first time, I can make a link between a genuine emotion that I feel and a musical expression of that. 172 00:11:47.564 --> 00:11:49.104 I don't mean the other ones weren't genuine. 173 00:11:49.464 --> 00:11:54.826 I mean that they were more junior. 174 00:11:55.827 --> 00:11:59.788 I think this is more reflective of where I am. 175 00:12:01.565 --> 00:12:08.949 Whereas the other ones were kind of, sort of clawing backwards to when I'd been young. 176 00:12:09.829 --> 00:12:16.533 You know, because a lot of the music was like kind of stuff that was around in the eighties and late seventies when I was around. 177 00:12:17.213 --> 00:12:19.334 And the kind of, you know, the, 178 00:12:20.595 --> 00:12:39.424 the noirish rain soaked northern city is a kind of trope of that time whether it be you know with us or or joy division or anyone you know it's all you know manchester glistens in the rain and glasgow twinkles in the dark and 179 00:12:40.965 --> 00:12:44.347 It's a kind of quite nostalgic thing. 180 00:12:45.387 --> 00:12:48.248 It felt like they were the albums that you kind of always wanted to make, in a sense. 181 00:12:48.268 --> 00:12:52.971 You wanted to, if you could do it, this is what you would do with it, going back to the beginning, really. 182 00:12:53.191 --> 00:12:55.912 Yeah, but also I don't know how to do it. 183 00:12:56.973 --> 00:13:01.295 So they're also about learning how to do it. 184 00:13:01.315 --> 00:13:02.395 I don't know, how do you write a song? 185 00:13:02.455 --> 00:13:02.855 I don't know. 186 00:13:04.276 --> 00:13:08.118 You have to sit down with a bit of paper and a guitar and you've got to write a song. 187 00:13:08.578 --> 00:13:08.698 Yeah. 188 00:13:10.202 --> 00:13:18.027 And so I would just often just say, oh, well, I'll write a Roy Orbison song today or I'll write an Oasis song or something. 189 00:13:18.127 --> 00:13:21.250 I'd do some terrible version of one of their songs. 190 00:13:22.370 --> 00:13:36.440 But by creating that, you generated material which you could then manipulate and change and get further and further away from that initial copying. 191 00:13:36.840 --> 00:13:38.641 But that's quite a common thing, you know. 192 00:13:39.282 --> 00:13:48.168 You'll hear John Lennon saying that all the time about, you know, songs that he's doing, which are deliberately trying to copy Curtis Mayfield or whatever. 193 00:13:48.801 --> 00:13:55.482 or Lou Reed talking about James Burton, wanting to play like James Burton on a guitar, on those records. 194 00:13:55.542 --> 00:13:55.782 Yeah. 195 00:13:56.162 --> 00:14:06.724 I do want to ask, do you think going more personal kind of with this next album, was that, and writing those songs that felt more like they were just coming out of you, was that difficult? 196 00:14:06.784 -->

00:14:08.885 And was that, I guess, at all scary? 197 00:14:09.065 --> 00:14:12.345 I guess going a bit further, being a bit more personal in what you were writing? 198 00:14:13.026 --> 00:14:13.346 Yeah. 199 00:14:14.326 --> 00:14:14.806 It was a little, 200 00:14:16.802 --> 00:14:42.822 It's scary because if you're being creative and you're using the events of your life to fuel that, you run the risk of being blinkered about how effective that material is because it's more effective to you 201 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:47.202 than perhaps material that's less personal. 202 00:14:49.604 --> 00:14:53.727 So you have to be careful not to, you've got to stay alert. 203 00:14:53.787 --> 00:15:03.575 But that's why I said I thought we'd get rid of, when I gave the songs to Neil, I thought we'd throw half of them away because I thought half of them were too personal to be of any use. 204 00:15:04.716 --> 00:15:05.997 But in fact, that's why I say, 205 00:15:07.335 --> 00:15:08.376 Well, I say he released them. 206 00:15:09.596 --> 00:15:18.040 He released the emotion from that neurosis and built a song. 207 00:15:20.421 --> 00:15:20.942 But I don't know. 208 00:15:21.002 --> 00:15:22.782 It's just, you know, you also get older. 209 00:15:22.842 --> 00:15:23.463 You know, I'm 68. 210 00:15:23.483 --> 00:15:29.166 So I go, well, I don't know, you know, how long I'm going to do this, you know, how long I get to do this. 211 00:15:29.326 --> 00:15:31.907 So it's just fun. 212 00:15:33.107 --> 00:15:34.168 But I think you have to, 213 00:15:36.192 --> 00:15:37.392 push hard. 214 00:15:37.612 --> 00:15:44.414 You have to push yourself to try, even if it is, because essentially it's a sort of hobby, isn't it? 215 00:15:44.474 --> 00:15:45.875 It's not how I make my living. 216 00:15:45.915 --> 00:15:46.695 It's just a hobby. 217 00:15:48.015 --> 00:15:49.556 But you know, it's serious. 218 00:15:49.836 --> 00:15:52.537 Are there any plans to play the new songs on the next tour? 219 00:15:52.577 --> 00:15:53.137 Are they at that stage yet? 220 00:15:53.157 --> 00:15:58.858 I think there's a couple on this one, but they're not, because we're doing a little tour in December. 221 00:16:00.059 --> 00:16:03.260 So we'll do a couple, but they're not the songs that will 222 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:07.081 that I've been talking about. 223 00:16:07.882 --> 00:16:11.405 Do you have that experience when you're playing your songs on stage? 224 00:16:11.625 --> 00:16:20.894 That like, again, like Lou Reed, like, cause I think so much goes back to Lou Reed, at least for me, like how he, when he was doing a song on stage, he would be singing it. 225 00:16:21.295 --> 00:16:26.340 And then it wouldn't, sometimes it wouldn't be until he was singing it in front of an audience that he actually realized what it's, what it was about. 226 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:53.339 yeah like he would do it he would like even up through the writing and like the demoing and then recording he would say

oh yeah this is what this song is and then he'd do it on stage like oh my god this is what it's about and be like i can't believe i'm saying this on stage you know because obviously they would go to some pretty dark and some quite personal areas yeah did you find that ever when you were on stage doing on the most recent tour like oh this is what this is about playing it in front of an audience yeah yeah you'd start you you'd begin to see that it can be it's a different thing 227 00:16:53.867 --> 00:17:01.833 You don't have ownership of it, or you have, it is still growing. 228 00:17:03.083 --> 00:17:06.366 So what it's about is not what I think it's about. 229 00:17:07.708 --> 00:17:16.997 Or I know what a song is about, but then in a public place with people listening to it, it becomes about something else. 230 00:17:17.978 --> 00:17:22.603 And it becomes about their relationship with it and their interpretation of it. 231 00:17:24.124 --> 00:17:26.186 And I can't articulate exactly what it is about, 232 00:17:26.947 --> 00:17:27.908 They're getting out of it. 233 00:17:27.988 --> 00:17:35.354 But sometimes a song becomes, there's an emotional thing in it, which I haven't placed there. 234 00:17:36.935 --> 00:17:42.579 But in a crowd, that emotional thing will rise to the surface. 235 00:17:43.040 --> 00:17:46.783 And you have, you know, you go with it because that's what it is. 236 00:17:47.103 --> 00:17:48.024 It's playing live. 237 00:17:48.144 --> 00:17:50.346 It's interacting with people. 238 00:17:50.946 --> 00:17:51.206 Yeah. 239 00:17:52.247 --> 00:17:54.850 Yeah, but he's amazing, Lou Reed. 240 00:17:54.970 --> 00:17:58.734 I mean, there's just nobody else. 241 00:17:58.974 --> 00:18:00.736 Clearly, you're a big Lou Reed fan. 242 00:18:01.857 --> 00:18:03.578 So what was the first Lou Reed album you got into? 243 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:04.620 Transformer. 244 00:18:04.860 --> 00:18:06.001 Transformer, of course. 245 00:18:06.101 --> 00:18:12.347 I remember we talked about it a little bit when you last came on, but I think that was the first album I ever fully loved. 246 00:18:12.487 --> 00:18:12.848 Yeah, yeah. 247 00:18:13.768 --> 00:18:26.294 front to back the whole thing every track yeah i could listen to the whole thing and i did like it was the first time i ever had an album i could listen to the whole thing over again and that was i was probably 20 when i heard that so what's your favorite track 248 00:18:27.476 --> 00:18:28.637 I'm a big fan of Hanging Round. 249 00:18:29.117 --> 00:18:29.337 Yeah. 250 00:18:29.617 --> 00:18:30.057 Track four. 251 00:18:30.557 --> 00:18:35.440 I think that's a track that doesn't always get the love that like A Perfect Day or A Walk on the Wild Side does. 252 00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:35.960 Yeah. 253 00:18:36.260 --> 00:18:38.921 I think that track, and I'm a big fan of Goodnight Ladies. 254 00:18:39.422 --> 00:18:41.202 Goodnight Ladies is great. 255 00:18:41.262 --> 00:18:42.003 Is that your favourite? 256 00:18:42.743 --> 00:18:44.304 It's not my favourite, but I love it. 257 00:18:44.384 --> 00:18:46.605 I don't like to have favourites because it changes as well. 258 00:18:46.625 --> 00:18:49.886 I mean, Satellite of Love is amazing. 259 00:18:49.906 --> 00:18:51.267 But as you say, it's the whole thing. 260 00:18:51.307 --> 00:18:53.128 And I can't tell whether or not it's the actual... 261 00:18:55.278 --> 00:19:01.160 I don't know whether or not you love music because of its unique 262 00:19:02.455 --> 00:19:15.764 components, those notes in that order, or whether you love it because you played it, you heard it when you were 20 and it takes you back to the other place, or whether it's a combination of those things. 263 00:19:15.964 --> 00:19:26.511 Because I noticed when, as is often the case, you know, when you're publicizing music things, you're always asked to put together lists of records that you love and all this stuff. 264 00:19:26.671 --> 00:19:26.871 Mm-hmm. 265 00:19:27.271 --> 00:19:41.025 Mine always fall into a five-year kind of span because that's when I was young and leaving school or going out into the world and being a student and stuff. 266 00:19:41.966 --> 00:19:45.290 And all most of the music is from that period. 267 00:19:47.212 --> 00:19:48.233 And I wonder whether it's... 268 00:19:51.501 --> 00:19:55.224 it's that connection with your history that makes them so powerful. 269 00:19:55.244 --> 00:19:59.606 But then, you know, Transformers, just one of the greatest albums ever made. 270 00:20:00.647 --> 00:20:03.749 I'm surprised it doesn't get the love that it deserves. 271 00:20:04.169 --> 00:20:06.030 I slightly think because it has a slightly... 272 00:20:07.071 --> 00:20:17.322 theatrical kind of, because it's, it's, it's, it's really in the, in the, in the, in the microclimate of glam. 273 00:20:17.543 --> 00:20:17.783 Yeah. 274 00:20:18.163 --> 00:20:24.390 You know, glam's all happening and, because he doesn't do another album like that. 275 00:20:24.615 --> 00:20:24.775 No. 276 00:20:25.656 --> 00:20:39.683 You know, and obviously Bowie and Ronson and everybody else are bringing a kind of theatricality to it, which absolutely suits him, which absolutely suits him down to the ground, but he never went back there. 277 00:20:40.723 --> 00:20:42.424 He wasn't that kind of artist, was he? 278 00:20:42.464 --> 00:20:45.025 He never really went, he very rarely went back, if ever. 279 00:20:45.465 --> 00:20:45.786 Yeah. 280 00:20:45.986 --> 00:20:46.206 Yeah. 281 00:20:46.566 --> 00:20:51.368 But it's that uniqueness, it's that voice and that guitar and just the comedy. 282 00:20:51.388 --> 00:20:52.609 You could just listen to him singing. 283 00:20:53.609 --> 00:20:59.652 And he's one of those great examples of, you know, he's not a great singer, but he's a great singer. 284 00:20:59.993 --> 00:21:01.013 Yeah, he's got a great voice. 285 00:21:01.133 --> 00:21:02.634 He's got a great voice. 286

00:21:03.094 --> 00:21:04.855 And I love Berlin, and I think Berlin is amazing. 287 00:21:06.374 --> 00:21:08.320 I listened to Berlin a lot at art school. 288 00:21:09.283 --> 00:21:10.787 I thought Berlin was amazing, yeah. 289 00:21:11.868 --> 00:21:14.690 I mean, in a way, that's the complete tunnel opposite of Transformer. 290 00:21:14.750 --> 00:21:29.298 I love that about actually, just zeroing in on that, because Transformer, beautiful album, such pleasure to listen to, just purely like the songs are beautiful, they're catchy, it's beautifully produced, you say, by Bowie and Ronson. 291 00:21:29.598 --> 00:21:35.901 And Bowie, I mean, Berlin, it's like after Transformer was a big hit, and people were like, oh, Lou Reed, who's this guy? 292 00:21:35.921 --> 00:21:36.502 He then goes... 293 00:21:37.242 --> 00:21:39.784 okay, well, now that I've got them, I'm going to give them this. 294 00:21:40.565 --> 00:21:46.210 And Berlin cannot be more brutal and dark and opposite of a follow-up to Transformer. 295 00:21:46.430 --> 00:21:46.830 Yeah, it is. 296 00:21:46.910 --> 00:21:47.711 It's so dark. 297 00:21:48.532 --> 00:21:49.793 It's terrifyingly dark. 298 00:21:50.713 --> 00:21:52.135 But yet it is also hopeful. 299 00:21:52.455 --> 00:21:55.437 It also has a buoyancy at the end. 300 00:21:55.858 --> 00:21:56.378 Yeah, sad song. 301 00:21:56.398 --> 00:21:57.519 It creates these characters. 302 00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:00.922 Yeah, and sad song is just such an amazing... 303 00:22:02.382 --> 00:22:07.203 I love sad song and I love it's, you know, it's the only song I know with Mary Queen of Scots in it. 304 00:22:08.164 --> 00:22:09.204 So where does that come from? 305 00:22:09.464 --> 00:22:10.744 She looked like Mary Queen of Scots. 306 00:22:10.904 --> 00:22:11.444 How do you know? 307 00:22:12.025 --> 00:22:24.628 You wander around the Metropolitan Museum of Art or something, hanging around, you know, after getting your drugs, going and, you know, go and see all those glorious old paintings and maybe you had an affinity with some picture of Mary Queen of Scots. 308 00:22:24.688 --> 00:22:26.588 I don't know. 309 00:22:26.608 --> 00:22:28.369 But yeah, it's great and sad. 310 00:22:30.065 --> 00:22:33.929 but also beautifully produced and great orchestral work and all that in it. 311 00:22:34.470 --> 00:22:41.397 It's very ambitious, but also he kind of is a very, he's just, he's a sort of fuck you artist, isn't he? 312 00:22:41.457 --> 00:22:42.318 Yeah, big time. 313 00:22:42.338 --> 00:22:43.479 You don't like this, fuck off. 314 00:22:44.481 --> 00:22:45.742 Metal machine music, whatever. 315 00:22:45.762 --> 00:22:47.203 I was just about to say. 316 00:22:47.424 --> 00:22:48.265 You don't like it, fuck off. 317 00:22:48.605 --> 00:22:50.147 Yeah, I think he even said that. 318 00:22:50.327 --> 00:22:50.947 He would say that. 319 00:22:51.688 --> 00:22:53.870 On the record, if you don't like this, I don't care. 320 00:22:53.950 --> 00:22:54.190 Yeah. 321 00:22:54.490 --> 00:22:55.051 Yeah. 322 00:22:55.351 --> 00:22:56.652 The last great American whale. 323 00:22:57.313 --> 00:22:57.573 Yes. 324 00:22:57.753 --> 00:22:58.694 From New York, right? 325 00:22:58.774 --> 00:22:58.934 Yeah. 326 00:22:58.974 --> 00:22:59.675 That's a great track. 327 00:22:59.735 --> 00:23:00.936 New York's a great... New York was... 328 00:23:00.956 --> 00:23:04.819 I was actually... Because what you were saying earlier about like going a bit more personal with your songs, like New York... 329 00:23:04.839 --> 00:23:08.101 I remember by that time of New York and... Do you know Song Swagrella? 330 00:23:08.341 --> 00:23:09.282 The one... Yeah. 331 00:23:09.362 --> 00:23:09.963 Love that album. 332 00:23:09.983 --> 00:23:11.784 We did it with John Cale about Warhol. 333 00:23:11.804 --> 00:23:17.789 He said that was actually the point in his career where he actually started thinking, okay, I'm not just going to write about stuff as like objectively. 334 00:23:17.869 --> 00:23:20.131 I'm actually going to write what I think. 335 00:23:20.631 --> 00:23:21.452 It took him that long. 336 00:23:21.472 --> 00:23:21.892 Yeah. 337 00:23:22.072 --> 00:23:24.713 It's admittedly, he admitted to get the confidence. 338 00:23:25.033 --> 00:23:25.254 Yeah. 339 00:23:25.514 --> 00:23:31.917 But then you think, you know, he's very personal and does his own stuff. 340 00:23:32.577 --> 00:23:38.420 But then you think, yeah, but you're a little reading, you live in New York, you know, all that stuff and you've been in the Velvet Underground and you're really cool. 341 00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:40.802 You could just walk around in your shades all the time and stuff like that. 342 00:23:41.322 --> 00:23:42.943 It's not really the same for us, is it? 343 00:23:44.263 --> 00:24:07.455 you've got to go to to boots to get your hemorrhoid cream or whatever it is you know all of that you know and it's raining and it's miserable what shall i get for the tea tonight macaroni and cheese or whatever you know or do you or do you think oh well i'll wear shades while i'm doing all that and i'll make my own life shades i'll do my hair blonde this time well he must have had to go and get do the shopping as well from time to time 344 00:24:07.842 --> 00:24:09.585 Presumably, yeah, somewhere in the village. 345 00:24:09.665 --> 00:24:12.449 It wouldn't send Laurie Anderson. 346 00:24:12.630 --> 00:24:13.972 It's your turn to make the tea. 347 00:24:15.302 --> 00:24:19.104 Perhaps Laurie Anderson gave him into trouble when he came home and he hadn't done the ironing and stuff like that. 348 00:24:20.065 --> 00:24:20.445 It's funny. 349 00:24:21.646 --> 00:24:23.947 Shortly after, the last time you came on, we had Murray Gold on. 350 00:24:24.247 --> 00:24:24.627 Oh, yeah. 351 00:24:24.807 --> 00:24:26.188 He was great. 352 00:24:26.288 --> 00:24:27.589 Big Lou Reed fan. 353 00:24:27.649 --> 00:24:28.489 And Barry fan as well. 354

00:24:28.509 --> 00:24:29.250 Huge Lou Reed fan. 355 00:24:29.270 --> 00:24:32.872 And he was telling me a story about how he was in a restaurant in New York. 356 00:24:32.952 --> 00:24:33.192 Yeah. 357 00:24:33.372 --> 00:24:37.194 And he was sitting a table or two across from Lou Reed and Laurie Anderson. 358 00:24:39.215 --> 00:25:04.047 i don't know if he had the shades on but you he was there he was lou reed sitting there yeah i don't i can't i don't want to obviously speak i know powerful that's what he said to me but he said yeah he did say hello to him and he was yeah yeah he plots up the courage to say hello to him and i think and lou was just very lou just like yeah yeah nice man i'd be too scared to say hello to um laurie anderson has a curious kind of um there's a curious roundabout link here which is that um 359 00:25:05.412 --> 00:25:18.144 We were all talking about where we live in London, and I live in North London, not far from Cranley Gardens, which was the home of Dennis Nelson, who's a notorious serial killer. 360 00:25:18.804 --> 00:25:22.848 But apparently his favourite record was O Superman by Laurie Anderson. 361 00:25:22.868 --> 00:25:28.593 So I always think of O Superman when I'm passing his arms, as I did this morning on the way here. 362 00:25:29.473 --> 00:25:29.973 Oh my God. 363 00:25:29.993 --> 00:25:35.915 The next, I mean, not to go too morbid, but if there is ever a documentary about Nilsson, I mean, maybe there is, and they've used that song. 364 00:25:35.975 --> 00:25:37.196 I mean, that's an unbelievable song. 365 00:25:37.736 --> 00:25:38.196 Eight minutes. 366 00:25:38.556 --> 00:25:39.536 It's fabulous, isn't it? 367 00:25:39.556 --> 00:25:39.816 Yeah. 368 00:25:40.717 --> 00:25:41.077 Fabulous. 369 00:25:41.097 --> 00:25:41.917 Where did that come from? 370 00:25:42.017 --> 00:25:42.457 I've no idea. 371 00:25:42.837 --> 00:25:44.038 Who decided to release that? 372 00:25:44.078 --> 00:25:44.198 Yeah. 373 00:25:45.767 --> 00:25:46.327 It was huge. 374 00:25:46.827 --> 00:25:49.368 Well, was John Peel the one who really pushed it, I want to say? 375 00:25:49.388 --> 00:25:52.730 Because he would do that thing of like, he'd play Boomy Rhapsody, the other big one. 376 00:25:53.010 --> 00:25:53.230 Yeah. 377 00:25:53.310 --> 00:25:55.371 Really unconventional, long song. 378 00:25:55.431 --> 00:25:56.551 And he would be like, no, this is great. 379 00:25:56.571 --> 00:25:58.332 I'm going to play this to help. 380 00:25:58.932 --> 00:25:59.132 Yes. 381 00:25:59.733 --> 00:26:04.495 When I was at art school and I was in a band, obviously you were desperate to get on the John Peel show. 382 00:26:06.415 --> 00:26:09.537 And we made a little record ourselves because you could do that. 383 00:26:09.597 --> 00:26:16.739 There was a plant out in Paris where they would take your tape and they'd turn it into vinyl and you could have 45 RPM records. 384 00:26:22.501 --> 00:26:38.664 and everybody thought if you got, if you didn't have a record, you just have a cassette tape and you try and stand around outside broadcasting the house hoping you'd see someone who looked a little bit like they might work on the John Peel show and maybe go and give them the cassette and hope they'd play it. 385 00:26:38.884 --> 00:26:42.965 And everybody hoped really that they would, what would happen to the undertones would happen to you. 386 00:26:43.625 --> 00:26:51.607 You know, that John Peel would become so devoted and would love your track so much he wouldn't stop playing it and go on and on about it and be propelled to top of the pops. 387 00:26:53.608 --> 00:27:11.398 but that didn't happen to us and to many, many bands but he did very sweet he played our record a couple of times but he didn't have much to say about it so once he played it at the very last track of the show so it was on for about 30 seconds so then the end of music came 388 00:27:12.555 --> 00:27:13.937 But it was nice of him to play it. 389 00:27:14.337 --> 00:27:15.599 So you got 30 seconds on Peel. 390 00:27:15.619 --> 00:27:17.301 I got 30 seconds on John Peel. 391 00:27:19.043 --> 00:27:20.045 And was that around the same time? 392 00:27:20.065 --> 00:27:27.595 Because am I right thinking that in the early 80s, you opened, didn't you, am I right thinking that you opened for Spandau Ballet doing some stand-up? 393 00:27:27.995 --> 00:27:28.676 That's what I was doing. 394 00:27:28.696 --> 00:27:38.506 Yeah, that was because sort of after the band, I sort of experimented with doing, because alternative comedy was sort of happening at that time. 395 00:27:38.587 --> 00:27:49.218 And I went to see the comic strip with Alexis Ayle and French and Saunders and Ed Edmondson and Rick Mayer. 396 00:27:51.073 --> 00:27:56.697 who were like, the pair of them were, I'd never seen anything like that. 397 00:27:57.277 --> 00:28:07.265 And it wasn't dissimilar from music, in the sense that you were in a grubby little club somewhere, and these two guys came on stage, and I'd never seen anything like this. 398 00:28:07.685 --> 00:28:10.527 They were so violent right in front of you. 399 00:28:10.791 --> 00:28:17.575 But it was so funny and so abstract, but also so kind of naff and predictable. 400 00:28:17.595 --> 00:28:21.737 And they just grabbed anything they could to make you laugh. 401 00:28:23.137 --> 00:28:25.098 And I loved them. 402 00:28:25.159 --> 00:28:26.419 So I had to go at doing that. 403 00:28:26.899 --> 00:28:31.002 Because also sometimes with a band, I would chat to the audience. 404 00:28:31.022 --> 00:28:33.303 And it's a very bad thing that happens. 405 00:28:33.783 --> 00:28:35.584 I've spoken to a lot of artists about this. 406 00:28:36.604 --> 00:28:39.306 Chatting to the audience, if you start getting laughs... 407 00:28:40.551 --> 00:28:45.554 it's quite dangerous because you begin to redirect things down that road. 408 00:28:47.675 --> 00:28:49.576 So you have to be a bit more pretentious

than that. 409 00:28:50.036 --> 00:28:54.879 So when we were on stage, I used to get quite a lot of laughs with my chat. 410 00:28:55.099 --> 00:28:56.220 So I sort of developed that. 411 00:28:56.960 --> 00:28:59.182 And I'd met, I don't know, it was Gary Kemp. 412 00:28:59.222 --> 00:29:00.083 He was very sweet. 413 00:29:00.123 --> 00:29:02.826 I don't really know how this happened. 414 00:29:03.287 --> 00:29:08.392 I think because we were supporting Altered Images, who Gary was a big fan of. 415 00:29:08.412 --> 00:29:11.555 And Altered Images was very sweet just because they'd become quite a big band. 416 00:29:11.575 --> 00:29:12.496 They were a big band. 417 00:29:13.137 --> 00:29:14.378 And we supported them. 418 00:29:14.398 --> 00:29:18.960 We used to support them on tour, which was great, which was so kind of them. 419 00:29:19.701 --> 00:29:24.143 But I would chat away to the audience during that. 420 00:29:24.343 --> 00:29:25.804 And I think Gary saw me doing that. 421 00:29:26.424 --> 00:29:31.387 And then the next time I saw him a year later, the band had sort of broken up and I was sort of trying to do stand up. 422 00:29:31.447 --> 00:29:33.348 And he said, why don't you come and do this? 423 00:29:33.828 --> 00:29:34.969 I mean, it was disastrous. 424 00:29:35.869 --> 00:29:55.783 Because why would a group of 2000 teeny boppers who had come to see Spandau Ballet in their new romantic poem want for a second to watch a kind of fledgling Glaswegian Rick male copyist do his unfunny material that he was still working through. 425 00:29:56.844 --> 00:29:58.585 So it was awful, but great. 426 00:30:00.467 --> 00:30:01.347 It was terrifying. 427 00:30:01.367 --> 00:30:03.629 And there had no patience with me whatsoever. 428 00:30:04.143 --> 00:30:07.185 I was going to say, what's a Spandau Ballet audience like? 429 00:30:07.546 --> 00:30:09.647 Well, I don't think it's specific to them. 430 00:30:09.707 --> 00:30:14.491 It's just an audience who haven't come to see an art student who thinks he's funny. 431 00:30:16.152 --> 00:30:21.677 Maybe that's what Spandau Ballet were in some ways, art students who thought they were musical. 432 00:30:21.797 --> 00:30:22.778 But they weren't art students. 433 00:30:23.158 --> 00:30:23.899 Actually, they were lovely. 434 00:30:23.919 --> 00:30:24.899 They were so kind. 435 00:30:24.919 --> 00:30:26.861 I feel very glad that I spent some time with them. 436 00:30:27.221 --> 00:30:28.162 They were so kind. 437 00:30:28.502 --> 00:30:32.765 I keep going back to how kind you don't realise when you're young, the generosity. 438 00:30:33.606 --> 00:30:34.087 of people. 439 00:30:34.748 --> 00:30:44.103 And Gary and Martin Kemp and all the band, they all lived in Islington and all of their parents worked in what they called the print, which was newspapers. 440 00:30:44.764 --> 00:30:47.388 Not as journalists, but as the people that printed newspapers 441 00:30:48.747 --> 00:31:15.382 the newspapers, which

was a craft that went back centuries, but also was under fire at that time because of Mrs. Datcher and because Rupert Murdoch beginning to move the print, the whole print industry away from Fleet Street and from the traditional means of making newspapers to warping wherever it was, where he was having computer-generated printing and all that beginning. 442 00:31:16.348 --> 00:31:21.630 But they were great and I'd go to their house and they were always, and they were Spandau Ballet. 443 00:31:22.731 --> 00:31:25.932 They were full in their pop, successful Spandau Ballet. 444 00:31:26.312 --> 00:31:29.794 But you still got to go round to their house and their mum would make you chips and all that. 445 00:31:29.814 --> 00:31:31.715 And I loved that. 446 00:31:31.735 --> 00:31:32.495 They were so kind. 447 00:31:32.515 --> 00:31:35.656 Do you remember what you would talk about with Spandau Ballet over the chips? 448 00:31:36.197 --> 00:31:41.579 Well, they made me laugh because they were so, and remember I'm still struggling to try. 449 00:31:41.819 --> 00:31:43.520 I don't know where I'm going at that point. 450 00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:45.301 I don't know what's happening. 451 00:31:46.021 --> 00:31:47.502 I just want to be part of something. 452 00:31:48.502 --> 00:31:52.664 And I don't know whether it's music or comedy or acting or what. 453 00:31:52.704 --> 00:31:54.085 I just want to be part of something. 454 00:31:55.645 --> 00:31:57.506 And this looks great, the whole music thing. 455 00:31:58.967 --> 00:32:01.988 And they seem very successful. 456 00:32:02.028 --> 00:32:03.749 Well, they were very successful to me. 457 00:32:04.489 --> 00:32:05.550 But they were also very... 458 00:32:07.598 --> 00:32:10.980 they were also very North London. 459 00:32:11.661 --> 00:32:35.396 They were also very, there's a, if you come, you know, I came from Scotland, so my anxieties about whether I was equipped to do any of this stuff also had a sort of slightly kind of class kind of element in it. 460 00:32:35.717 --> 00:32:35.917 Yeah. 461 00:32:36.542 --> 00:32:45.908 because I didn't feel that my background had given me any right or any preparation for being in these worlds. 462 00:32:47.649 --> 00:32:48.770 But they were sort of... 463 00:32:50.491 --> 00:32:56.235 I was sort of amazed at how they were totally North London. 464 00:32:56.335 --> 00:32:57.796 They were totally Islington. 465 00:32:58.076 --> 00:32:59.897 But that was a different... 466 00:32:59.917 --> 00:33:04.100 I think what I'm trying to say is, if you come from outside of London... 467 00:33:04.959 --> 00:33:23.585 you've also got to deal with not just the problems of trying to do what you're trying to do, but the problems of not belonging, of being in a city that is very different and very, seems very, um, established and people who feel, who seem very at home there. 468 00:33:24.506 --> 00:33:24.986 And, uh, 469 00:33:26.123 --> 00:33:31.306 So they haven't had to travel 400 miles to

try and get their career going. 470 00:33:31.326 --> 00:33:38.050 They might have only had to get the tube into town to stand outside Broadcasting House. 471 00:33:38.790 --> 00:33:55.520 Whereas I've had to get an overnight bus, which the rest of the band have put their money together to pay for me to come down with my bag full, duffel bag full of cassettes, and stand around in the cold with, you know, literally sleeping on people's floors, you know, in this strange big city. 472 00:33:55.580 --> 00:33:55.700 Yeah. 473 00:33:56.203 --> 00:33:59.784 Was it around the time of Spandau that Local Hero came along? 474 00:33:59.824 --> 00:34:01.664 Was that around the same time, so early 80s? 475 00:34:02.745 --> 00:34:04.965 I think the Spandau might have been before that. 476 00:34:05.885 --> 00:34:06.606 I'm not sure. 477 00:34:07.606 --> 00:34:12.887 But I think wisely he said it was either before that or after that. 478 00:34:13.407 --> 00:34:15.148 He said very accurately. 479 00:34:16.248 --> 00:34:17.648 I think it may have been before it. 480 00:34:19.609 --> 00:34:21.309 But I'd have to look that up. 481 00:34:21.409 --> 00:34:25.190 I'd have to get in touch with the Peter Capaldi Museum and... 482 00:34:28.016 --> 00:34:33.801 Well, I asked because in the run-ups of this chat, I went back and looked at Local Hero, which was, of course, your first film. 483 00:34:33.822 --> 00:34:34.142 Yeah. 484 00:34:34.362 --> 00:34:37.225 And you're working with a director like Bruce Forsyth, who's amazing. 485 00:34:37.545 --> 00:34:38.786 And that's such a terrific film. 486 00:34:38.826 --> 00:34:41.929 I mean, as far as first films go, I mean, that's up there for me. 487 00:34:41.949 --> 00:34:42.610 That's a good one. 488 00:34:42.750 --> 00:34:43.110 I mean... 489 00:34:43.971 --> 00:34:53.180 Am I right in thinking that your first scene in that film, which, as I say, your first film, it's your first scene in your first film, was the scene on the beach with you and Burt Lancaster, like, towards the end of the film? 490 00:34:53.220 --> 00:34:53.900 Am I right in saying that? 491 00:34:53.920 --> 00:34:57.504 I think it was, yeah, because they shot all of Burt Lancaster's stuff first. 492 00:34:58.785 --> 00:35:01.167 Because, obviously, he was the most expensive component. 493 00:35:02.268 --> 00:35:05.812 And there was a whole pile of stuff that he was in that was set in America. 494 00:35:06.881 --> 00:35:15.786 But they built a set in Inverness, in a whiskey distillery to be his home in Texas or wherever it was. 495 00:35:16.787 --> 00:35:20.389 And they'd done two or three days filming in Houston. 496 00:35:21.149 --> 00:35:22.310 And then they'd come and brought him 497 00:35:23.877 --> 00:35:32.299 with them to Scotland and the very first day we were standing on that beach and it was snowing. 498 00:35:32.539 --> 00:35:39.560 And if you see the film now, you'll still see on the mountains on the islands, over the water, the snow on those mountains. 499 00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:48.242 But the first day we were filming, I was standing with him and the snow was falling down and I thought, I don't know how this is going to work. 500 00:35:49.607 --> 00:35:51.428 And they stopped filming and did some weather cover. 501 00:35:51.448 --> 00:35:53.089 Then we came back the next day and it was beautiful. 502 00:35:53.869 --> 00:35:54.509 But he was great. 503 00:35:55.070 --> 00:35:59.111 And he always said to me, he was like this all the time. 504 00:35:59.131 --> 00:36:00.472 He was like Bert Lancaster. 505 00:36:01.112 --> 00:36:07.175 And he said, kid, I got to tell you, he said, your instinct is fabulous, fabulous instinct. 506 00:36:07.295 --> 00:36:10.837 Can't understand a fucking word you say, but your instinct is fabulous. 507 00:36:12.450 --> 00:36:12.970 That was nice. 508 00:36:13.010 --> 00:36:14.291 He was like that. 509 00:36:14.471 --> 00:36:17.093 Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. 510 00:36:17.673 --> 00:36:18.233 He was great. 511 00:36:20.395 --> 00:36:23.136 So that was a very exciting experience. 512 00:36:23.336 --> 00:36:30.000 But I wasn't, you know, at first, you know, I wouldn't be here now if I hadn't been for that. 513 00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:57.557 you know and that was a kind of sort of thing that bill the director had he because he was a sort of lone wolf or lone voice uh he'd made small films in scotland uh and then there was an aligning of the stars because david putnam who'd made just made chariots of fire was looking for something else and that kind of all fitted uh and it was lovely to make but i you know i didn't 514 00:36:59.184 --> 00:37:00.445 I wasn't really being an actor. 515 00:37:00.465 --> 00:37:10.395 I was just, Bill just had met me at gigs again with Altered Images because Claire, who was in Altered Images, had been in Gregory's Guild, which was his previous film. 516 00:37:10.816 --> 00:37:17.542 So he used to come to gigs and he'd seen me supporting with the band, supporting Altered Images. 517 00:37:18.063 --> 00:37:19.364 And we got to know each other that way. 518 00:37:19.404 --> 00:37:20.225 But I think he just, 519 00:37:21.706 --> 00:37:22.987 There was no acting required. 520 00:37:23.007 --> 00:37:29.850 It was just a bit of a geeky bloke who didn't really know where he was, which is what I was. 521 00:37:30.830 --> 00:37:33.612 Well, there's such kind of innocence to that character, Danny. 522 00:37:33.992 --> 00:37:39.714 Like, you know, he's so funny and he's so, and the way, even just the way he moves, the way you sort of move in that character. 523 00:37:39.735 --> 00:37:40.035 It's quite- 524 00:37:41.476 --> 00:37:44.120 There is no, it's not a character. 525 00:37:44.140 --> 00:37:51.149 I didn't sit at home, didn't go to Jacques Lecoq and figure out how to, it's just the way I move. 526 00:37:51.390 --> 00:37:57.558 Which is horrifying when you see it, when you are the victim of your own shape. 527 00:38:00.341 --> 00:38:01.521

Victim of your own gait. 528 00:38:02.042 --> 00:38:03.622 Because you never see that. 529 00:38:03.722 --> 00:38:08.704 As a human being, even if you see photographs of yourself, you rarely see yourself walking or moving. 530 00:38:09.564 --> 00:38:11.244 You never see yourself from back there. 531 00:38:12.625 --> 00:38:14.165 So to see yourself walking. 532 00:38:14.866 --> 00:38:17.286 And of course, Bill loved my run, which he thought was hilarious. 533 00:38:17.726 --> 00:38:19.047 So he'd make me run all the time. 534 00:38:19.607 --> 00:38:21.608 But I didn't know it was because it was funny. 535 00:38:22.268 --> 00:38:28.390 Another great film that you made around that time, which I actually hadn't seen until this last week, I watched it in the run-up, is Lair of the White Worm. 536 00:38:30.099 --> 00:38:31.641 I don't know, has that been on recently? 537 00:38:31.681 --> 00:38:35.424 Because so many people have brought up Leia the White One to me over the last two weeks. 538 00:38:35.545 --> 00:38:35.865 Really? 539 00:38:35.965 --> 00:38:37.486 Has it been on the telly or something? 540 00:38:37.567 --> 00:38:41.811 Or whatever it is young people use to engage. 541 00:38:43.397 --> 00:38:44.278 The old-fashioned. 542 00:38:44.558 --> 00:38:45.279 I streamed it online. 543 00:38:45.299 --> 00:38:45.959 I bought it online. 544 00:38:45.979 --> 00:38:47.140 Oh, you streamed it online? 545 00:38:47.180 --> 00:38:47.721 Yeah. 546 00:38:48.081 --> 00:38:49.602 I didn't know if it... Do you want your money back? 547 00:38:49.842 --> 00:38:52.985 No, I was going to say, I loved it. 548 00:38:53.005 --> 00:38:53.905 Honestly, I loved it. 549 00:38:53.945 --> 00:38:54.606 I don't know why. 550 00:38:54.626 --> 00:38:56.928 I know at the time it kind of... 551 00:38:57.008 --> 00:38:57.889 I was reading up on it. 552 00:38:57.909 --> 00:38:59.049 It felt like people didn't quite get it. 553 00:38:59.270 --> 00:39:01.071 But that film is insane. 554 00:39:01.151 --> 00:39:01.531 Oh, God. 555 00:39:03.012 --> 00:39:04.193 And I mean that in the best way. 556 00:39:04.793 --> 00:39:10.635 It's Ken Russell, obviously, so it's going to have a lot of energy to it, a lot of the kind of maverick energy that he had. 557 00:39:10.655 --> 00:39:14.097 But that movie's brilliant, and it's you and Hugh Grant in The Gotham Heroes. 558 00:39:14.357 --> 00:39:14.937 Who I loved. 559 00:39:15.197 --> 00:39:17.138 He's great and he's so brilliant. 560 00:39:17.158 --> 00:39:18.098 He was so funny. 561 00:39:18.118 --> 00:39:19.639 He made me laugh all the time. 562 00:39:20.819 --> 00:39:21.700 He's so clever. 563 00:39:21.720 --> 00:39:25.681 I mean, he's the brightest person I've ever met, I think. 564 00:39:25.701 --> 00:39:27.362 He's so smart. 565 00:39:28.282 --> 00:39:31.363 So, and just so witty. 566 00:39:31.423 --> 00:39:33.704 And he was, he's remarkable. 567 00:39:33.784 --> 00:39:34.044 Yeah. 568 00:39:34.564 --> 00:39:35.665 Yeah, he was great. 569

00:39:35.685 --> 00:39:36.585 I loved working with him. 570 00:39:36.845 --> 00:39:37.405 He's great. 571 00:39:38.085 --> 00:39:43.507 But it was a great, you know, it was great fun because it was, well, was it great fun? 572 00:39:43.987 --> 00:39:45.568 I'm thinking back now, was it great fun? 573 00:39:47.028 --> 00:39:55.431 I think it was slightly stressful because I don't think that Ken, who was, again, very kind, but Ken was quite terrified. 574 00:39:56.500 --> 00:39:58.901 because you'll all be too young to know this. 575 00:39:59.141 --> 00:40:16.247 But in the 60s, he was the original enfant terrible of British cinema and made these very, you know, he made The Devils, which was one of this kind of most outrageous and kind of... 576 00:40:17.027 --> 00:40:42.176 barrier-breaking kind of movies with kind of nudity and grossness and Oliver Reed and and blood and and it was all it was really quite I mean my parents would not have approved did not approve of the devils or any movies like that so he was quite scary but by the time I got to meet him he had become sort of uh 577 00:40:43.703 --> 00:40:51.872 There was an American film company who were fans of his, and they decided to sort of finance a number of movies. 578 00:40:52.613 --> 00:40:59.401 And one of them was Lair of the White Worm, which was a pet project of his, which he'd had for some time, I think. 579 00:40:59.782 --> 00:41:02.625 But he took it absolutely seriously. 580 00:41:03.632 --> 00:41:05.913 I mean, he was really, really serious about it. 581 00:41:06.413 --> 00:41:08.894 And it was like the devils. 582 00:41:09.795 --> 00:41:16.078 So when you were making it, the vibe on the set was not, oh, this is a bit of a campy, fun sort of horror movie. 583 00:41:16.658 --> 00:41:18.359 It was like, this is the real thing. 584 00:41:18.399 --> 00:41:28.383 This is really about these evil, an evil vampire cult that people are, this little, people like this little boy scout will be prone to being seduced by. 585 00:41:28.404 --> 00:41:30.845 And Amanda Donahue, who was wonderful, 586 00:41:32.786 --> 00:41:34.427 So it was mad and a bit scary. 587 00:41:35.888 --> 00:41:39.071 But I loved it. 588 00:41:39.111 --> 00:41:40.091 It was great. 589 00:41:40.111 --> 00:41:41.492 Because I loved horror movies as well. 590 00:41:41.552 --> 00:41:43.194 So I liked the idea of being in a horror movie. 591 00:41:43.734 --> 00:41:44.735 But it's not as... 592 00:41:46.876 --> 00:41:47.477 He thought... 593 00:41:48.117 --> 00:41:53.682 The way Ken spoke, I felt his ambition for it was for it to be a full-on horror movie. 594 00:41:54.402 --> 00:41:56.944 And I think it ended up... People laughed at it. 595 00:41:58.325 --> 00:42:00.527 So I think he then lent into that. 596 00:42:02.121 --> 00:42:02.883 when it came out. 597 00:42:03.183 --> 00:42:03.444 Yeah. 598 00:42:03.685 --> 00:42:07.233 And sort of suggested that it had been a comic invention all the time. 599 00:42:07.514 --> 00:42:07.775 Mm-hmm. 600 00:42:08.965 --> 00:42:09.585 But it was great fun. 601 00:42:09.926 --> 00:42:15.529 And at the same time as that, well, I found myself making Dangerous Liaisons. 602 00:42:15.689 --> 00:42:16.729 Of course. 603 00:42:17.050 --> 00:42:19.331 Which was, I think, what I thought I was away. 604 00:42:19.711 --> 00:42:23.613 I thought I was good to become a national treasure there and there. 605 00:42:24.133 --> 00:42:27.555 Because I moved from that to doing Dangerous Liaisons. 606 00:42:27.835 --> 00:42:32.318 Again, these are, you know, which was their most extraordinary experience. 607 00:42:33.898 --> 00:42:53.396 experience and still one of my favorite films even though i'm in it i would never cite a film that i'm in as being a favorite but i think that's a brilliant film brilliant cast as well john malkovich is just outrageous glenn close i sat in the um 608 00:42:54.871 --> 00:43:02.681 Stephen Frears, who I just think is fabulous, fabulous director and used to take the piss out of me all the time. 609 00:43:03.602 --> 00:43:04.543 Used to call me Janet. 610 00:43:04.603 --> 00:43:06.486 Janet was a character who was in a... 611 00:43:06.866 --> 00:43:08.488 There was a hoary old... 612 00:43:12.779 --> 00:43:20.343 early Sunday evening BBC show called Dr Finlay's Casebook, which was about a rural doctor in rural Scotland. 613 00:43:21.144 --> 00:43:22.725 And every week was one of his shows. 614 00:43:22.765 --> 00:43:24.366 It was a very, very big show. 615 00:43:25.567 --> 00:43:28.708 And he had a wee surgery in this kind of wee village somewhere in the Highlands. 616 00:43:29.249 --> 00:43:30.530 He kind of spoke like that. 617 00:43:30.650 --> 00:43:34.772 And there was an older doctor as well who had wisdom which he dispatched. 618 00:43:35.393 --> 00:43:39.075 But there was a sort of housekeeper called Janet. 619 00:43:40.673 --> 00:43:42.414 Janet used to appear like that for the tree. 620 00:43:44.214 --> 00:43:47.296 Cups and saucers for the doctors. 621 00:43:48.096 --> 00:43:49.517 She'd have a little bit of wisdom. 622 00:43:49.757 --> 00:43:50.937 So Stephen just called me Janet. 623 00:43:51.617 --> 00:43:53.778 So you'd have John Malkovich here. 624 00:43:54.138 --> 00:43:55.859 You'd have Glenn Close and Michelle Fiverr. 625 00:43:55.879 --> 00:43:59.301 And then he said, Janet will come in here. 626 00:44:01.221 --> 00:44:02.822 And that was every day I was on the set. 627 00:44:02.842 --> 00:44:04.042 I said, Janet will walk in there. 628 00:44:04.062 --> 00:44:05.083 And then Janet, come over here. 629 00:44:05.743 --> 00:44:08.444 But I loved him and I loved it. 630 00:44:08.644 --> 00:44:10.105 And I remember the day... 631 00:44:13.226 --> 00:44:29.792 of the read through, which was in Paris, at the hotel, George, whatever it is, very grand hotel, Michel Pfeiffer, Uma Thurman, John Malkovich. 632 00:44:31.313 --> 00:44:37.495 Glenn Close is not there because she's, I don't know, fatal

attraction, she's doing something else. 633 00:44:38.655 --> 00:44:42.137 And so Stephen goes, well, Janet, you'll have to read Glenn's part. 634 00:44:43.257 --> 00:44:53.106 So Janet has to read Madame Mertour with John Malkovich and Michelle Pfeiffer. 635 00:44:54.027 --> 00:44:59.952 So I've got to read, I've got to do her part with them, which was great. 636 00:45:00.933 --> 00:45:01.874 And they were great. 637 00:45:03.135 --> 00:45:06.198 I remember John was sitting, John, I was... 638 00:45:07.384 --> 00:45:09.926 I was enthralled by John. 639 00:45:10.766 --> 00:45:13.528 He sat smoking a cigarette, rolling up cigarettes and smoking them. 640 00:45:13.549 --> 00:45:14.409 He knew all the lines. 641 00:45:15.210 --> 00:45:16.631 He didn't have the book in front of him. 642 00:45:16.651 --> 00:45:19.353 Because he was essentially a theatre actor. 643 00:45:20.193 --> 00:45:22.335 And he just threw it all out there. 644 00:45:23.316 --> 00:45:24.076 And Michelle. 645 00:45:24.977 --> 00:45:26.418 Amazing. 646 00:45:26.698 --> 00:45:27.659 And it turned into this. 647 00:45:28.259 --> 00:45:31.281 One day I was with Stephen. 648 00:45:31.642 --> 00:45:33.183 And I saw he had a folder with... 649 00:45:34.645 --> 00:45:46.530 And he opened the folder and there was photographs of Barbara Stanek and Fred McMurray in a film called Double Indemnity, which had been a Billy Wilder film. 650 00:45:46.690 --> 00:45:47.050 Great film. 651 00:45:47.270 --> 00:45:50.972 I asked, why have you got a Billy Wilder, a stills one Billy Wilder film? 652 00:45:52.113 --> 00:45:55.154 Double Indemnity is one of the classic film noirs. 653 00:45:56.294 --> 00:45:57.835 And he said, because this is a film noir. 654 00:45:59.353 --> 00:46:02.076 Dangerous Liaisons is a film noir. 655 00:46:03.257 --> 00:46:05.039 And of course, that's what it is. 656 00:46:06.821 --> 00:46:19.393 Film noir or noir being, James Ellroy said, you know, film noir is a genre where the basic cornerstone of it is the tenet that we're all fucked. 657 00:46:24.655 --> 00:46:25.516 and which people love. 658 00:46:26.737 --> 00:46:28.338 We love that we're all fucked films. 659 00:46:29.959 --> 00:46:32.261 Lou's kind of got some of that going on as well, isn't it? 660 00:46:32.281 --> 00:46:33.262 Big time. 661 00:46:33.762 --> 00:46:42.949 So that's what Dangerous liaison is, is these bleak, dark characters who think they're smart and clever, but they're derailed by love, and love destroys them. 662 00:46:45.271 --> 00:46:51.376 But their performances, Glenn Close's performance, Michelle Pfeiffer, John. 663 00:46:53.477 --> 00:46:54.238 I mean, John hadn't, 664 00:46:55.735 --> 00:46:57.855 It was only like his second movie or something. 665 00:46:59.116 --> 00:47:02.556 So he hadn't become the being John Malkovich guy. 666 00:47:03.017 --> 00:47:04.157 He hadn't become that guy yet. 667 00:47:04.177 --> 00:47:06.437 He didn't know where all this was going. 668 00:47:07.918 --> 00:47:08.938 And he was terrifying. 669 00:47:09.018 --> 00:47:13.519 His ability to access rage was amazing. 670 00:47:13.939 --> 00:47:15.979 But I would just watch him. 671 00:47:16.639 --> 00:47:17.740 God, this is great to be here. 672 00:47:17.980 --> 00:47:18.880 To all this going on. 673 00:47:19.267 --> 00:47:22.070 Would you say that's the hardest read-through you've ever had to do? 674 00:47:23.111 --> 00:47:23.711 No, it was fun. 675 00:47:23.731 --> 00:47:27.255 It was the scariest, but it was actually the most fun because I had a big part. 676 00:47:27.755 --> 00:47:29.637 You had two parts. 677 00:47:29.937 --> 00:47:31.799 I had two parts to do, yeah. 678 00:47:31.819 --> 00:47:35.943 Do you have any other memorable read-throughs that you've done that stick in the head? 679 00:47:36.083 --> 00:47:38.684 Well, I hate read-throughs, so I try to avoid read-throughs. 680 00:47:39.065 --> 00:47:43.087 Doctor Who read-throughs were always great because Stephen Moffat was always very... 681 00:47:43.327 --> 00:47:47.709 He would read the stage directions, and he'd always read them with great colour. 682 00:47:48.129 --> 00:47:49.530 And lots of... 683 00:47:49.570 --> 00:47:54.273 He would make funny remarks and jokes about characters and jokes about actors. 684 00:47:54.933 --> 00:48:00.755 But he would really drive the read-through so that it was playing at a realistic time. 685 00:48:01.415 --> 00:48:07.297 Because also they were timing it to see if the show, how that episode would work in terms of its dynamics. 686 00:48:07.617 --> 00:48:08.197 So he would drive it. 687 00:48:08.537 --> 00:48:09.918 So that was always fun to do. 688 00:48:11.218 --> 00:48:16.340 But generally I would, generally I try to be not available for read-throughs. 689 00:48:18.041 --> 00:48:33.810 Because they're murderous, you know, and you sit in a room full of 200 people who you're never going to see again, you know, and there is inevitably a, it becomes a live performance as opposed to what you might do with that material. 690 00:48:34.330 --> 00:48:39.853 And so it creates a slightly illusory sense of what the project might be. 691 00:48:41.140 --> 00:48:41.940 I think. 692 00:48:42.521 --> 00:48:47.022 Well, say with something like Heaven Sent, which of course is just you really, doing the read-through for that. 693 00:48:47.042 --> 00:48:54.085 I think there's even a clip of you doing the read-through when it's literally just you at the table and you're having to hold the centre, even just at the read-through. 694 00:48:54.425 --> 00:48:55.305 Yeah, that's quite fun. 695 00:48:55.605 --> 00:48:59.967 But the funny thing, the read-throughs of Doctor Who were always fun, but they tended to be... 696 00:49:02.237 --> 00:49:09.563 You're in the middle of filming one episode, and then suddenly on, they'll say, well, Tuesday night is the read-through for the next episode. 697 00:49:10.323 --> 00:49:18.010 But we're still in the middle of filming this

episode, and we might be off in a quarry somewhere or in a power station somewhere. 698 00:49:18.782 --> 00:49:27.008 And you've got to get back to Cardiff in time for this read-through, which all these actors have arrived, fresh-faced, ready to join, to do their episode of Doctor Who. 699 00:49:27.749 --> 00:49:36.976 And so you've got to turn from being the exhausted person who's been out in the quarry for a week into a, hello, welcome to the show. 700 00:49:36.996 --> 00:49:37.996 It's lovely to see you all. 701 00:49:38.217 --> 00:49:39.437 Thank you very much for coming. 702 00:49:39.658 --> 00:49:40.118 I'm Peter. 703 00:49:40.158 --> 00:49:40.939 I play the Doctor. 704 00:49:40.979 --> 00:49:43.540 You know, and all this stuff. 705 00:49:43.941 --> 00:49:45.362 So that's all a bit of a performance. 706 00:49:45.822 --> 00:49:46.603 But that's nice. 707 00:49:48.192 --> 00:49:49.032 It's nice also. 708 00:49:49.112 --> 00:49:51.254 It's nice to see all the actors, the fresh faces. 709 00:49:51.914 --> 00:49:55.236 I love seeing all the fresh meat coming out. 710 00:49:55.376 --> 00:49:56.036 You'll change. 711 00:49:56.056 --> 00:49:56.556 You'll see. 712 00:49:56.596 --> 00:49:57.237 Give it a week. 713 00:49:57.277 --> 00:49:58.157 You'll see a week. 714 00:49:58.537 --> 00:50:11.184 You'd arrive and do a read-through on the Monday morning with the cast, and then you'd shoot it all week, and you'd be exhausted by Friday, but when you left, you'd see the new cast arriving, which was lovely. 715 00:50:11.204 --> 00:50:12.824 We were all fresh-faced and ready to go. 716 00:50:14.345 --> 00:50:15.206 I love that about actors. 717 00:50:15.226 --> 00:50:17.647 They're full of hope, even though the hopes are dashed. 718 00:50:19.289 --> 00:50:21.291 Well, it's like the Nuafe, we're all fucked. 719 00:50:21.311 --> 00:50:21.932 We're all fucked. 720 00:50:22.092 --> 00:50:22.553 I'm sorry. 721 00:50:23.734 --> 00:50:24.395 But not really. 722 00:50:24.435 --> 00:50:24.956 That's great. 723 00:50:24.996 --> 00:50:26.137 That's what I love about actors. 724 00:50:26.658 --> 00:50:32.004 And it was only when I was knocked about a bit myself that I began to see it in their eyes. 725 00:50:32.745 --> 00:50:34.107 I could see it in the other actors' eyes. 726 00:50:34.688 --> 00:50:38.452 How they didn't have to say it, but I knew they'd been up for a part and they didn't get it. 727 00:50:39.173 --> 00:50:42.396 I knew that their mortgage payments were getting too big. 728 00:50:43.176 --> 00:50:49.901 I knew that they hoped they were going to get a thing in a film or a show and it had not worked out. 729 00:50:50.341 --> 00:50:52.463 But they were still here and they were still happy to be there. 730 00:50:52.963 --> 00:50:53.644 Oh, that's great. 731 00:50:54.344 --> 00:50:54.905 Trooping along. 732 00:50:55.505 --> 00:50:59.168 Well, I think kind of slightly bruised and kind of scarred. 733 00:50:59.769 --> 00:51:01.350 That's how people are in real life. 734 00:51:02.288 --> 00:51:18.300 Nobody gets a through life without some misfortune, you know, and it's the capacity to survive that and to refocus on being positive. 735 00:51:19.401 --> 00:51:20.322 Not that that's easy. 736 00:51:20.922 --> 00:51:22.343 Terrible things happen to people. 737 00:51:22.664 --> 00:51:24.145 Terrible, terrible things. 738 00:51:24.985 --> 00:51:25.646 But somehow... 739 00:51:27.167 --> 00:51:34.874 People are able to reassemble and re-evaluate and re-process their lives and get to a better place with it. 740 00:51:36.856 --> 00:51:38.478 And some act, that's the, you know... 741 00:51:39.495 --> 00:51:41.095 Some actors arrive with that already. 742 00:51:42.075 --> 00:51:43.496 When they're young, they've already got that. 743 00:51:44.456 --> 00:51:47.957 But with me, I had to wait until I got throttled by the business. 744 00:51:49.377 --> 00:51:53.498 What do you think was the moment that you, that resilience kind of came through, do you think? 745 00:51:53.538 --> 00:51:55.578 That what job do you think was the one that taught you? 746 00:51:55.938 --> 00:51:56.878 Well, the thick of it. 747 00:51:57.638 --> 00:52:06.800 I don't think I would have got the thick of it had I not had quite a difficult period of not succeeding. 748 00:52:07.300 --> 00:52:24.655 after having been, you know, uh, extremely lucky, uh, and having done a lot of these lovely, lovely jobs, it sort of didn't catch fire and it didn't sort of take me to, and I'd, you know, I tried to direct and all that and gone to Hollywood and all that stuff. 749 00:52:24.715 --> 00:52:27.077 And that hadn't, that'd been great. 750 00:52:27.177 --> 00:52:28.137 And then it hadn't worked. 751 00:52:29.218 --> 00:52:31.860 Uh, and I'd, I'd sort of grieved over that for too long. 752 00:52:32.661 --> 00:52:33.642 Uh, and, uh, 753 00:52:35.523 --> 00:52:41.867 So when I went to audition for The Thick of It, I wasn't fresh meat. 754 00:52:42.707 --> 00:52:48.210 I wasn't fresh-faced and looking forward to what the day had in store. 755 00:52:49.291 --> 00:52:55.615 I was a little more beaten up and a little more noir-ish. 756 00:52:57.750 --> 00:53:02.393 Which kind of suited, which I didn't realise, suited the material better. 757 00:53:03.053 --> 00:53:03.834 And Tucker better. 758 00:53:03.954 --> 00:53:04.094 Yeah. 759 00:53:04.354 --> 00:53:10.577 Well, I mean, with The Thick of It, because we talked about that last time you came on, and it was great hearing you reminisce about that show. 760 00:53:10.617 --> 00:53:15.240 But something that we didn't talk to on so much was In The Loop, the film of The Thick of It, of course. 761 00:53:15.460 --> 00:53:23.342 And everything you just said there about Hollywood, I mean, that's a film, you know, they're literally transplanting the TV show into a feature-length context, taking it to Hollywood. 762 00:53:23.602 --> 00:53:26.022 A lot of it takes place in Washington, America. 763 00:53:26.382 -->

00:53:30.623 And you're working with some incredible, as Tucker, you're working with some incredible players in that. 764 00:53:30.783 --> 00:53:32.563 Notably, James Gandolfini. 765 00:53:32.823 --> 00:53:33.444 He was incredible. 766 00:53:33.464 --> 00:53:37.204 You guys have that great standoff in Washington. 767 00:53:37.224 --> 00:53:38.825 I mean, do you remember what James was like to work with? 768 00:53:39.145 --> 00:53:39.305 Amazing. 769 00:53:39.325 --> 00:53:39.805 Amazing. 770 00:53:40.485 --> 00:53:43.809 Well, because, you know, I love the Sopranos. 771 00:53:44.770 --> 00:53:46.051 Who doesn't love the Sopranos? 772 00:53:47.513 --> 00:53:49.856 And you find yourself in a room and he walks in. 773 00:53:51.758 --> 00:53:54.541 And he's not Tony Soprano, but he looks like him. 774 00:53:55.823 --> 00:53:56.844 And he sounds like him. 775 00:53:57.625 --> 00:53:59.727 And he has such charisma. 776 00:54:01.478 --> 00:54:06.220 And he was gentle and he was kind and he was slightly intimidated. 777 00:54:06.300 --> 00:54:13.684 I think, I think he was slightly sort of, I think he adored Armando and what Armando had. 778 00:54:13.764 --> 00:54:17.065 I don't know how he quite came to this, but he knew all about the thick of it and stuff. 779 00:54:17.165 --> 00:54:22.067 So he knew that world, Armando's world. 780 00:54:23.528 --> 00:54:24.929 And, uh, 781 00:54:27.358 --> 00:54:32.402 I mean, we rehearsed in New York, which was amazing. 782 00:54:34.584 --> 00:54:38.046 And I have all these photographs of us in a hotel somewhere. 783 00:54:38.066 --> 00:54:41.649 We're all up on the ninth floor or something. 784 00:54:41.729 --> 00:54:45.692 You know, I'm there and Chris Addison's there and Tom Holland is there. 785 00:54:46.052 --> 00:54:47.994 We'd all worked together before and stuff like that. 786 00:54:49.797 --> 00:54:53.059 James walked in and he had, he'd come on his bike. 787 00:54:53.259 --> 00:54:54.440 So he had a crash helmet. 788 00:54:54.460 --> 00:54:58.662 And the other way you often see, why do people ride a bike? 789 00:54:58.702 --> 00:55:01.463 Because I guess they think because it's cool or something. 790 00:55:01.783 --> 00:55:02.664 I mean, a motorbike. 791 00:55:02.744 --> 00:55:03.504 Oh, not a bicycle. 792 00:55:03.584 --> 00:55:04.385 No, a motorbike. 793 00:55:07.666 --> 00:55:10.648 But then they always end up coming into the party with a big stupid helmet. 794 00:55:10.768 --> 00:55:13.070 Where am I going to put this and all this leather gear? 795 00:55:13.090 --> 00:55:13.931 Where does that go? 796 00:55:14.351 --> 00:55:15.852 It's not very cool in that bit. 797 00:55:16.753 --> 00:55:19.655 I'm sure it's cool when you're on your Harley Davidson on the road. 798 00:55:20.395 --> 00:55:26.620 But it never looks good when you walk into the hotel with all your leather, puffy leather gear and your big helmet. 799 00:55:27.100 --> 00:55:29.002 Except if you happen to be James Gandolfi. 800 00:55:32.063

--> 00:55:33.844 And I remember he made his... 801 00:55:33.964 --> 00:55:35.844 The script was much longer. 802 00:55:36.605 --> 00:55:37.905 The script went through a lot of... 803 00:55:38.085 --> 00:55:42.666 I mean, the Thick of It scripts always went through changes, but in the loop went through a lot of changes. 804 00:55:43.187 --> 00:55:44.867 And there were much bigger scenes. 805 00:55:45.707 --> 00:55:49.729 There were bigger conflicts between Tucker and James' character. 806 00:55:49.749 --> 00:55:50.769 Yeah. 807 00:55:51.189 --> 00:55:56.230 And, uh, we did, we rehearsed those as, as, as Amanda normally does. 808 00:55:56.290 --> 00:55:58.751 We read them and then we had to improvise them. 809 00:55:59.891 --> 00:56:07.073 Uh, I follow the, uh, the course of, of, of the events, but use your own words to do so. 810 00:56:08.173 --> 00:56:16.355 Uh, and James and I were always, the characters were always at Loggerheads, but James got very into this. 811 00:56:17.115 --> 00:56:20.156 I could see he started to breathe deeply and, and, uh, 812 00:56:20.963 --> 00:56:23.245 He went to punch me and he pulled the punch like that. 813 00:56:23.925 --> 00:56:28.008 And I just stopped because I thought, that's Tony Soprano. 814 00:56:28.028 --> 00:56:32.411 And if he hits me, you know, I'm on the floor here. 815 00:56:32.571 --> 00:56:33.732 But it was wonderful as well. 816 00:56:34.693 --> 00:56:45.180 But he was getting so engaged with it, as I guess I was as well, because you have to as well go, well, you know, I'm a total fanboy about James and the Sopranos. 817 00:56:45.681 --> 00:56:46.281 Forget that. 818 00:56:47.342 --> 00:56:48.603 You just have to destroy that. 819 00:56:48.723 --> 00:56:51.324 You just have to put that away and you just play. 820 00:56:51.705 --> 00:56:54.626 And Malcolm was a great character because he was like a shark. 821 00:56:54.846 --> 00:57:04.332 So there was no great kind of, there was nothing much else going on other than him trying to get what he wanted just to eat the other person. 822 00:57:04.792 --> 00:57:07.834 You know, that's all he wanted to do was eat them and spit them out. 823 00:57:08.254 --> 00:57:09.635 So I wasn't scared as Malcolm. 824 00:57:10.816 --> 00:57:32.513 but a little bit of me was scared in the 70s when I was growing up in that period that we've discussed which is the most influential on your adult life there was a tendency the British films television series used to do a film version ironically Hammer films which had made all these great horror films that I loved they were running off steam 825 00:57:33.708 --> 00:57:39.933 But they discovered that there was a way to make money by making a very cheap spin-off of a television series. 826 00:57:40.793 --> 00:57:47.058 For instance, Step Toe and Song, which was a big classic sitcom in the 60s. 827 00:57:47.138 --> 00:57:49.239 And people forget this in the early 70s as well. 828 00:57:49.500 --> 00:57:50.801 They made film version of that. 829 00:57:51.541 --> 00:57:58.503 And they famously made a film version of On the Buses was a kind of, I can't explain On the Buses to you. 830 00:57:58.523 --> 00:58:06.084 I think you'll have to talk to your parents or psychiatrist or therapist or something to find out what On the Buses was. 831 00:58:06.724 --> 00:58:08.545 Obviously, it was set on the buses. 832 00:58:10.285 --> 00:58:12.346 It was about a bus driver and a conductor. 833 00:58:12.366 --> 00:58:13.446 You wouldn't know what a conductor is. 834 00:58:15.106 --> 00:58:18.407 And their adventures, fairly sexist adventures. 835 00:58:20.506 --> 00:58:26.931 driving a bus every day with various birds, I think is what they would call them, would get on the... 836 00:58:27.391 --> 00:58:38.719 Anyway, I used to think that In The Loop was in danger of being the thick of its... Mutiny on the Buses, I think, was the film version of Mutiny on the Buses. 837 00:58:39.780 --> 00:58:40.480 So I used to... 838 00:58:40.520 --> 00:58:46.985 I had a folder with my In The Loop script, but on the cover of it, I got the Mutiny on the Buses film poster... 839 00:58:50.510 --> 00:58:54.996 So those few of us who were old enough on that team to remember that got it. 840 00:58:57.034 --> 00:59:05.978 But of course I had worked with, the other star of Mutiny on the buses was a great actor called Stephen Lewis, who was an amazing man. 841 00:59:06.658 --> 00:59:14.881 And he played a character called Blakey, the bane of the bus driver's life, because he was the inspector. 842 00:59:15.421 --> 00:59:16.902 So out of the blue he would appear. 843 00:59:16.942 --> 00:59:17.602 What's going on? 844 00:59:17.622 --> 00:59:18.703 He's so spooked like that. 845 00:59:18.903 --> 00:59:20.443 You know, kind of comedy, comedy. 846 00:59:21.224 --> 00:59:24.545 And he's called Blakey and everyone knew, and he had a moustache like Hitler. 847 00:59:25.587 --> 00:59:26.148 What are you doing? 848 00:59:26.188 --> 00:59:26.949 Turn in that corner. 849 00:59:26.969 --> 00:59:27.990 You shouldn't have been turning that corner. 850 00:59:28.010 --> 00:59:28.571 What are you doing? 851 00:59:28.591 --> 00:59:29.132 We're too late. 852 00:59:29.152 --> 00:59:32.256 You should be here this time. 853 00:59:32.336 --> 00:59:33.398 Oh, no, Butler. 854 00:59:33.438 --> 00:59:34.339 Butler was the name of the name. 855 00:59:34.359 --> 00:59:35.261 Butler, I see you. 856 00:59:35.281 --> 00:59:36.162 Butler, I see you. 857 00:59:36.182 --> 00:59:37.223 Butler, what are you doing there? 858 00:59:37.444 --> 00:59:38.125 That's all wrong. 859 00:59:38.145 --> 00:59:38.966 Get off that bus. 860 00:59:40.588 --> 00:59:41.209 Let me start that. 861 00:59:42.414 --> 00:59:43.414 And he was great. 862 00:59:44.395 --> 00:59:52.598 And so when I came to play Mr. Curry in Paddington, I just kind of tried to channel Stephen. 863 00:59:52.898 --> 00:59:54.118 That's Blakey. 864 00:59:54.198 --> 00:59:55.559 Mr. Curry is

kind of Blakey-esque. 865 00:59:55.599 --> 00:59:56.879 You can't have that bear there. 866 00:59:57.479 --> 00:59:58.800 Get that bear right out of here. 867 00:59:59.740 --> 01:00:01.361 You know, with his notepad and all that stuff. 868 01:00:01.521 --> 01:00:02.061 It's not right. 869 01:00:02.081 --> 01:00:04.142 We can't have any of these foreigners hanging around here. 870 01:00:04.282 --> 01:00:05.022 Get out now. 871 01:00:06.430 --> 01:00:07.411 So that's all, Stephen. 872 01:00:07.631 --> 01:00:10.994 Was Nicole, Nicole Kibben, cognizant of that when you were making Palentin together? 873 01:00:11.034 --> 01:00:12.836 We said, ah, on the buses. 874 01:00:13.056 --> 01:00:13.497 I get it. 875 01:00:13.537 --> 01:00:14.458 I don't think I mentioned that. 876 01:00:14.478 --> 01:00:15.419 She was so lovely. 877 01:00:15.679 --> 01:00:20.043 She was so sweet and ordinary and helpful and funny. 878 01:00:20.063 --> 01:00:20.864 She was so funny. 879 01:00:21.865 --> 01:00:23.787 And not, we didn't have... 880 01:00:25.000 --> 01:00:32.707 I can remember sitting with her in some grubby room somewhere in North London where we were filming somewhere, and it was grim and it was raining, and it was... 881 01:00:34.108 --> 01:00:38.732 I don't want to disappoint anyone, so turn off now if you're a big Paddington fan. 882 01:00:39.853 --> 01:00:42.515 But Paddington was not actually there when we were filming. 883 01:00:44.356 --> 01:00:54.719 and in fact was being played by a small person in a red duffel coat, which of course just looked like, don't look now to me. 884 01:00:55.119 --> 01:00:56.619 Yeah. 885 01:00:56.679 --> 01:00:58.219 That you were terrified. 886 01:00:58.719 --> 01:01:00.920 And he'd come along running towards you like this. 887 01:01:00.940 --> 01:01:02.380 Fucking hell. 888 01:01:04.641 --> 01:01:06.521 I thought this was a kid's film. 889 01:01:07.662 --> 01:01:09.022 Is there going to be a big sex scene? 890 01:01:13.182 --> 01:01:14.704 But yeah, so she was great. 891 01:01:14.824 --> 01:01:18.629 And I, because I thought, you're one of the most famous people in the world and there was no entourage. 892 01:01:18.649 --> 01:01:20.731 There was no big trailer. 893 01:01:20.751 --> 01:01:23.194 There was no, we were all just sitting in these grubby little rooms. 894 01:01:23.775 --> 01:01:24.136 Great fun. 895 01:01:24.396 --> 01:01:26.759 Paul King, who directed that film and the second one. 896 01:01:26.779 --> 01:01:27.380 It's brilliant. 897 01:01:28.140 --> 01:01:29.222 Just a brilliant director. 898 01:01:30.589 --> 01:01:36.031 And so in love with Paddington, because you have to be, I think we spoke about this before. 899 01:01:36.791 --> 01:01:50.836 That's kind of trick of filmmaking, is to keep the flame alive, to keep the love for the thing alive, while 200 people are standing around going, you know, oh, he hasn't turned up, or we can't use that location, it's raining. 900 01:01:51.496 --> 01:01:52.756 What are we gonna do, what are we gonna do? 901 01:01:52.776 --> 01:01:57.778 I always think making a film is like having the builders in, because you've got this lovely idea 902 01:01:58.673 --> 01:02:05.255 for this lovely little, you know, I want to replace this bathroom with this bathroom. 903 01:02:07.195 --> 01:02:07.855 Oh, you know. 904 01:02:07.895 --> 01:02:09.056 If we don't, we can do that. 905 01:02:09.076 --> 01:02:10.636 We can't do this, we can't do that. 906 01:02:10.816 --> 01:02:12.377 Put it there, we can't put it, you know. 907 01:02:13.297 --> 01:02:16.078 And that on a huge scale is what filmmaking is. 908 01:02:16.698 --> 01:02:18.738 You've got this great idea you want to make a film. 909 01:02:19.678 --> 01:02:20.779 You must have it with podcasts. 910 01:02:20.799 --> 01:02:22.539 You think we'll get Peter Capaldi back in again. 911 01:02:24.280 --> 01:02:25.340 He doesn't wear his jumper. 912 01:02:28.383 --> 01:02:32.265 And all he does is make references to people that no one's ever heard of. 913 01:02:35.026 --> 01:02:35.886 How do we get out of this? 914 01:02:36.026 --> 01:02:37.527 Wouldn't have it any other way, sir. 915 01:02:37.587 --> 01:02:38.307 Any other way. 916 01:02:38.848 --> 01:02:39.488 Bless. 917 01:02:40.288 --> 01:02:45.831 Well, touching... Because there was something with In The Loop, going all the way back to In The Loop. 918 01:02:46.511 --> 01:02:50.413 Because something that we did... Because last time we had you on, we did a little read-through. 919 01:02:50.433 --> 01:02:51.473 I don't know if you remember. 920 01:02:51.493 --> 01:02:57.236 We had a little read-through of a Thiccobit sort of scene, pseudo-scene that Alan Moore had written. 921 01:02:58.677 --> 01:03:00.078 between Tucker and Jon Snow. 922 01:03:00.419 --> 01:03:03.522 And actually we thought we do, we didn't think we'd do the same thing here. 923 01:03:03.802 --> 01:03:08.546 One of the big inspirations for Tucker was Alistair Campbell, the spin doctor of Tony Blair. 924 01:03:09.007 --> 01:03:13.912 And something that we did was that over the weekend, I went back through everything that basically Alistair Campbell has ever said. 925 01:03:17.199 --> 01:03:19.300 And I drew up some of the choices quotes. 926 01:03:19.420 --> 01:03:21.442 I thought, oh, is this Tucker? 927 01:03:21.662 --> 01:03:23.003 Is this this little Tucker-esque? 928 01:03:23.043 --> 01:03:24.944 Or is this something that Alistair said? 929 01:03:25.384 --> 01:03:28.386 And I thought we could do a little quickfire round, if you're up for it. 930 01:03:28.586 --> 01:03:30.127 If you're going to follow me down this rabbit hole. 931 01:03:30.487 --> 01:03:32.188 Is this Alistair or is this Malcolm? 932 01:03:32.809 --> 01:03:34.610 This is the fucking Shawshank Redemption, right? 933 01:03:34.850 --> 01:03:37.532 With more tunneling through shit and no fucking redemption. 934 01:03:37.752 --> 01:03:39.193 That's Malcolm. 935 01:03:39.753 --> 01:03:40.594 Correct,

that's good. 936 01:03:40.634 --> 01:03:41.735 I thought I'd start you off easy. 937 01:03:41.755 --> 01:03:42.435 We'll get you in. 938 01:03:43.256 --> 01:03:43.716 I forgot that. 939 01:03:43.736 --> 01:03:44.337 That's a good line. 940 01:03:44.357 --> 01:03:44.957 That's a good line. 941 01:03:44.978 --> 01:03:46.439 I just thought, yeah, you can't go wrong with that one. 942 01:03:46.459 --> 01:03:47.520 You can't go wrong with that. 943 01:03:48.080 --> 01:03:50.262 I'm someone who lives and breathes communication. 944 01:03:52.484 --> 01:03:53.965 That's got to be Alistair, right? 945 01:03:54.586 --> 01:03:55.426 No, it's one of yours. 946 01:03:55.466 --> 01:03:56.587 It's one of yours. 947 01:03:57.168 --> 01:03:57.908 It's in the inquiry. 948 01:03:57.928 --> 01:04:00.350 There's no swearing in it. 949 01:04:00.651 --> 01:04:01.351 What do I say? 950 01:04:01.511 --> 01:04:03.853 I'm someone who... Who lives and breathes communication. 951 01:04:04.554 --> 01:04:06.476 I should have said I'm someone who fucking lives and breathes. 952 01:04:08.378 --> 01:04:09.439 Communification. 953 01:04:09.519 --> 01:04:13.060 Communification. 954 01:04:13.881 --> 01:04:14.881 This one I think might throw you. 955 01:04:15.521 --> 01:04:17.102 Nicotine stained man frog. 956 01:04:20.023 --> 01:04:21.604 Nicotine stained man frog. 957 01:04:22.184 --> 01:04:22.765 I don't know. 958 01:04:23.745 --> 01:04:24.506 You're very clever. 959 01:04:24.526 --> 01:04:26.627 Why are you very clever finding these things? 960 01:04:27.327 --> 01:04:28.668 These are all on the record, by the way. 961 01:04:28.808 --> 01:04:30.508 Things that Tucko and Alistair have said. 962 01:04:31.329 --> 01:04:32.209 I don't know who that is. 963 01:04:32.890 --> 01:04:33.490 That's Alistair. 964 01:04:34.549 --> 01:04:35.750 Alistair talking about Farage. 965 01:04:36.350 --> 01:04:36.951 What does he call it? 966 01:04:37.311 --> 01:04:38.673 A nicotine stained man from. 967 01:04:40.956 --> 01:04:41.477 That's great, good. 968 01:04:41.497 --> 01:04:42.417 Well done, Alistair. 969 01:04:42.437 --> 01:04:44.840 Yeah, that's not bad, is it? 970 01:04:44.860 --> 01:04:45.500 Very good. 971 01:04:45.721 --> 01:04:46.181 It's on the last one. 972 01:04:46.201 --> 01:04:47.382 Nicotine stained man frog. 973 01:04:47.442 --> 01:04:47.923 That's good. 974 01:04:48.243 --> 01:04:49.004 Okay, how about this one? 975 01:04:49.404 --> 01:04:52.407 He's so dense that light bends around him. 976 01:04:52.587 --> 01:04:58.893 Yeah, that was one of the great, great lines from The Thick of It, from Malcolm. 977 01:04:59.193 --> 01:05:00.415 I don't know who wrote that. 978 01:05:01.155 --> 01:05:03.557 Simon Blackwell, maybe, was a brilliant writer. 979 01:05:04.218 --> 01:05:04.899 Or maybe it was... 980 01:05:06.218 --> 01:05:08.919 Maybe it was Jesse Armstrong or maybe it was... A great writer. 981 01:05:09.260 --> 01:05:09.520 Yeah. 982 01:05:09.640 --> 01:05:11.721 I think that's from the opening of Series 3. 983 01:05:12.181 --> 01:05:13.902 I think you're coming into number 10. 984 01:05:14.002 --> 01:05:14.282 Yeah. 985 01:05:14.342 --> 01:05:16.883 And you're like... Light's so dense it bends around him, yeah. 986 01:05:19.364 --> 01:05:22.566 And also I had all the human hair. 987 01:05:24.267 --> 01:05:27.889 Most household dust is made from human flesh. 988 01:05:28.109 --> 01:05:28.309 Yeah. 989 01:05:28.549 --> 01:05:29.349 Dead human skin. 990 01:05:29.369 --> 01:05:30.730 Dead human skin, yeah. 991 01:05:31.610 --> 01:05:32.231 That's what you are. 992 01:05:32.251 --> 01:05:32.611 That's right. 993 01:05:32.631 --> 01:05:33.131 That's right. 994 01:05:35.678 --> 01:05:36.378 Not Peter. 995 01:05:36.498 --> 01:05:36.998 Tony Roach. 996 01:05:37.018 --> 01:05:39.179 That might have been Tony Roach who did that and came up with that. 997 01:05:40.159 --> 01:05:40.719 How about this one? 998 01:05:40.999 --> 01:05:45.441 There have been spin doctors around ever since Julius Caesar wrote the greatest soundbite of all time. 999 01:05:45.801 --> 01:05:47.301 Veni, vidi, vici. 1000 01:05:47.741 --> 01:05:48.801 That was good. 1001 01:05:49.101 --> 01:05:50.702 That's Alistair. 1002 01:05:50.762 --> 01:05:51.602 That's a good one, isn't it? 1003 01:05:51.902 --> 01:05:52.642 It is a good one. 1004 01:05:53.463 --> 01:05:54.723 It's a little serious. 1005 01:05:56.742 --> 01:05:58.903 But it's a good notion, I like the notion of it. 1006 01:05:59.863 --> 01:06:08.466 I always felt I should have really been in, I was always very, I met Tim McInerney the other day, who's a great actor, who I did a play with years ago. 1007 01:06:09.046 --> 01:06:12.588 And Tim, he's well known from Blackadder and stuff like that. 1008 01:06:13.148 --> 01:06:18.510 But I went to see Gladiator too, and it was one of the worst days of my life because there was Tim, we went to the Senate. 1009 01:06:18.930 --> 01:06:21.151 And there was Tim, and he was a dodgy senator. 1010 01:06:22.737 --> 01:06:31.664 And I thought, surely I should be the dodgy senator up there, giving the emperor the wrong advice, the dodgy spin doctor. 1011 01:06:31.824 --> 01:06:32.565 Yeah, of course. 1012 01:06:32.845 --> 01:06:33.605 He was wonderful. 1013 01:06:33.806 --> 01:06:36.488 But I complained to him personally. 1014 01:06:36.968 --> 01:06:39.510 You saw him, you were like, oi, how come I wasn't in Gladiator 2? 1015 01:06:40.311 --> 01:06:44.354 I know, because there'll never be a Gladiator 3, so it's a shame. 1016 01:06:44.474 --> 01:06:45.635 A little tragedy in my life. 1017 01:06:45.775 --> 01:06:46.055 Yeah. 1018 01:06:46.712 --> 01:06:47.794 But only a little tragedy. 1019 01:06:47.975 --> 01:06:48.656 Small tragedy. 1020 01:06:48.676 --> 01:06:50.039 Oh, okay. 1021 01:06:50.359 --> 01:06:51.942 I think this is a tough one. 1022 01:06:52.784 --> 01:06:58.154 I reckon I could find between 12 and 15 things that if I could have him for half an hour, I

would absolutely destroy him. 1023 01:07:02.454 --> 01:07:02.794 I don't know. 1024 01:07:02.814 --> 01:07:04.035 You see, I thought this would be easy. 1025 01:07:04.295 --> 01:07:06.656 I thought it would be very, very clear. 1026 01:07:07.176 --> 01:07:09.437 But obviously I've forgotten so many of it. 1027 01:07:09.818 --> 01:07:10.818 So there's so many good lines. 1028 01:07:11.578 --> 01:07:13.139 I would say that's probably Alistair. 1029 01:07:13.259 --> 01:07:14.140 That's Alistair as well. 1030 01:07:14.160 --> 01:07:14.620 Yeah. 1031 01:07:14.780 --> 01:07:16.101 I think you'll appreciate this one actually. 1032 01:07:16.661 --> 01:07:17.862 Tell Barclays to fuck off. 1033 01:07:18.382 --> 01:07:20.603 Tell Barclays to fuck off. 1034 01:07:21.764 --> 01:07:22.184 Is that me? 1035 01:07:22.224 --> 01:07:23.144 Is that Malcolm? 1036 01:07:23.244 --> 01:07:23.865 That's Alistair. 1037 01:07:23.905 --> 01:07:24.485 It's Alistair. 1038 01:07:24.545 --> 01:07:27.907 But you were in the room for that one because that was that was at the charity event that you guys did. 1039 01:07:29.858 --> 01:07:33.560 Years ago, back in 2012, I want to say, you guys did like a charity event, right? 1040 01:07:33.600 --> 01:07:34.220 You and Alistair. 1041 01:07:34.540 --> 01:07:34.920 That's right. 1042 01:07:34.940 --> 01:07:35.200 Yeah. 1043 01:07:35.420 --> 01:07:37.001 Because people were always trying to get us together. 1044 01:07:37.021 --> 01:07:39.742 Because the thing is, I hadn't really, I didn't know who Alistair Campbell was. 1045 01:07:40.222 --> 01:07:44.224 So when we started to think about, he wasn't actually somebody who was disgusted. 1046 01:07:45.324 --> 01:08:05.562 Armando just said this is a kind of spin doctor and there would be references to that position of being an advisor and of course Alistair would be mentioned in that but so would Bernard Ingham and other people and yes Minister obviously was a reference as well 1047 01:08:06.843 --> 01:08:10.704 So I hadn't seen him when we started shooting. 1048 01:08:11.264 --> 01:08:16.865 So he had no influence over the choices I was making. 1049 01:08:17.666 --> 01:08:19.226 And then I gradually began to see him. 1050 01:08:21.026 --> 01:08:27.348 I think there was a documentary I saw, which was following a week in the life of number 10 or something like that. 1051 01:08:28.068 --> 01:08:30.129 And he did a press conference. 1052 01:08:31.289 --> 01:08:33.849 And I remember copying. 1053 01:08:34.830 --> 01:08:36.030 There was kind of a vibe about it. 1054 01:08:37.010 --> 01:08:55.523 And they were kind of relaxed, kind of trying to be funny, but also being a bit rotten and a bit hard and a noisy kind of sort of, yeah, kind of newspaper-y kind of journalistic kind of vibe was what he seemed to send out. 1055 01:08:56.023 --> 01:08:58.285 So I remember sort of trying to grab some of that. 1056 01:08:58.305 --> 01:09:01.327 And then one night, but people kept trying to get us together and I didn't want to. 1057 01:09:02.860 --> 01:09:06.865 Because as the show became more successful, it became more common to say it was based on him. 1058 01:09:07.926 --> 01:09:09.408 And as I say, it hadn't been based on him. 1059 01:09:10.048 --> 01:09:13.873 But then one night I went to a thing called... Now, they don't do this anymore. 1060 01:09:14.934 --> 01:09:15.395 Why not? 1061 01:09:16.156 --> 01:09:17.878 It's called the Politics Awards. 1062 01:09:17.898 --> 01:09:19.600 It's like the BAFTAs for politicians. 1063 01:09:19.620 --> 01:09:19.820 Right. 1064 01:09:21.600 --> 01:09:25.762 So you can imagine it's audiences largely politicians. 1065 01:09:26.522 --> 01:09:27.782 So Channel 4 used to do it. 1066 01:09:27.802 --> 01:09:28.623 They don't do it anymore. 1067 01:09:28.643 --> 01:09:31.744 But they invited us because they have a category best TV show. 1068 01:09:32.104 --> 01:09:35.145 So obviously, I think of it as normally the best TV show. 1069 01:09:35.485 --> 01:09:38.786 And I went to the table and there were nameplates. 1070 01:09:38.806 --> 01:09:39.607 And my name was there. 1071 01:09:39.687 --> 01:09:42.848 And I could see the nameplate next to me was Alistair Campbell. 1072 01:09:43.928 --> 01:09:45.309 So I thought, oh, fuck, he's coming. 1073 01:09:46.769 --> 01:09:47.990 This is going to be it. 1074 01:09:48.010 --> 01:09:49.791 I'm going to actually meet him now. 1075 01:09:50.671 --> 01:09:51.651 And indeed he showed up. 1076 01:09:51.691 --> 01:09:52.992 And he's very big. 1077 01:09:53.192 --> 01:09:58.914 He's very tall and quite an imposing kind of guy. 1078 01:09:59.715 --> 01:10:02.036 And fast, spoke very quickly. 1079 01:10:02.936 --> 01:10:05.477 And we got on fine. 1080 01:10:05.497 --> 01:10:08.678 But I noticed he spoke in gags all the time. 1081 01:10:08.798 --> 01:10:12.180 Not that they were very good gags, with all due respect, I'm sure. 1082 01:10:13.817 --> 01:10:15.258 I perhaps just didn't know the references. 1083 01:10:15.358 --> 01:10:16.359 Perhaps he was Michael. 1084 01:10:17.079 --> 01:10:18.680 But let's go references that I didn't get. 1085 01:10:19.480 --> 01:10:20.681 But I thought that's really interesting. 1086 01:10:20.861 --> 01:10:21.741 You're just talking. 1087 01:10:22.441 --> 01:10:25.543 By talking in gags, I mean, saying, how are you doing? 1088 01:10:25.583 --> 01:10:26.523 How's your day been? 1089 01:10:26.543 --> 01:10:27.064 I like your hair. 1090 01:10:27.084 --> 01:10:28.104 It's crazy looking. 1091 01:10:28.124 --> 01:10:28.765 Where'd you get that from? 1092 01:10:28.805 --> 01:10:29.205 Is that a wig? 1093 01:10:29.545 --> 01:10:31.066 Okay, so later on, we're going to do this. 1094 01:10:31.226 --> 01:10:33.267 Okay, those shoes, are you serious? 1095 01:10:33.647 --> 01:10:34.547 Where did that guy come from? 1096 01:10:34.567 --> 01:10:35.948 Fulham, right, I knew you come from Fulham. 1097 01:10:36.068 --> 01:10:37.929 Okay, let's sort out Thursday. 1098

01:10:38.209 --> 01:10:39.250 So all the time, 1099 01:10:40.251 --> 01:11:01.778 the way the way it's gags because I always worried about how you play in a comedy this sounds like quite an actory sort of thing to say do the people in comedies know they're funny are there gags are they are they are they making those gags in real life in the real life that we are pretending to inhabit or are they accidental 1100 01:11:03.489 --> 01:11:08.710 combinations of words that the audience is recognized as a gag, but the character doesn't. 1101 01:11:09.510 --> 01:11:10.811 And I thought, oh no, he recognized. 1102 01:11:10.831 --> 01:11:14.951 So Malcolm, Malcolm knows he's telling, Malcolm knows he's making funny remarks. 1103 01:11:15.631 --> 01:11:17.232 That was a thing that happened post that. 1104 01:11:17.692 --> 01:11:19.332 I thought, all right, that's what he does. 1105 01:11:19.632 --> 01:11:32.415 And he was fascinated because also that award ceremony, you can imagine is full of conservatives, Labour, Lib Dems, SNP, Clyde Cranier, everybody, you know, 1106 01:11:32.955 --> 01:11:39.503 And Alistair, because he was quite in his pomp then, had a line of people would come and... 1107 01:11:39.523 --> 01:11:44.990 I remember Dennis Davis, who's a kind of conservative, big conservative politician. 1108 01:11:46.737 --> 01:11:51.079 being delighted to see Alistair, and then kind of embracing and chatting and having a laugh. 1109 01:11:51.099 --> 01:11:54.061 And then some other Tory would come up and they'd all have a laugh. 1110 01:11:54.421 --> 01:12:05.547 So seeing all these kind of what you thought were people who would be on opposite sides, seeing them all be friendly to each other and coming to enjoy each other's crack. 1111 01:12:06.571 --> 01:12:09.272 was surprising and rather lovely, actually. 1112 01:12:09.912 --> 01:12:10.852 There should be more of that. 1113 01:12:11.613 --> 01:12:13.093 We could do with a lot more of that. 1114 01:12:13.113 --> 01:12:14.794 Yeah, it's something we don't really see, is it? 1115 01:12:14.814 --> 01:12:15.874 You don't really see. 1116 01:12:15.914 --> 01:12:18.475 I thought, well, no, that's sensible. 1117 01:12:18.615 --> 01:12:24.737 You have differences of opinion about policy, but it doesn't mean you hate each other. 1118 01:12:26.776 --> 01:12:29.118 And I'm sure some people do hate each other. 1119 01:12:29.138 --> 01:12:37.065 And of course, we live in a society now in which hating each other is encouraged in order to fill the coffers of our corporate masters. 1120 01:12:38.266 --> 01:12:39.967 But we don't hate each other, do we? 1121 01:12:40.187 --> 01:12:40.368 No. 1122 01:12:40.588 --> 01:12:41.448 We all love each other. 1123 01:12:42.309 --> 01:12:45.872 That's what I'm about now, sending the love out there. 1124 01:12:45.892 --> 01:12:50.516 So Markituck is a secretly close mate with Mannion, by that logic. 1125 01:12:50.896 --> 01:12:51.957 I think that would be... 1126 01:12:53.993 -->

01:12:56.954 Yeah, I think that would be, that's a possibility. 1127 01:12:57.134 --> 01:13:01.336 And at the same time, you have to wield the dagger. 1128 01:13:03.157 --> 01:13:06.458 When it's time, when it's time, you have to do the deed. 1129 01:13:08.419 --> 01:13:09.419 But that's politics. 1130 01:13:09.659 --> 01:13:11.680 And that's one of the kind of fascinating things about it. 1131 01:13:12.601 --> 01:13:23.145 You know, tough, it's all, you know, the world now is just like showbiz or this podcast or whatever, whatever this is, you know, it's all just stuff. 1132 01:13:24.682 --> 01:13:31.947 But those are serious people dealing with serious issues trying to make it work. 1133 01:13:32.147 --> 01:13:36.490 And if you're trying to make things work in the real world, you've got to put up with other people's. 1134 01:13:37.430 --> 01:13:40.032 You've got to have differences of opinions and not want to kill people. 1135 01:13:40.232 --> 01:13:41.313 Yeah, for sure. 1136 01:13:41.473 --> 01:13:42.794 It's all gone terribly wrong now. 1137 01:13:43.034 --> 01:13:44.655 Yeah, for sure, for sure. 1138 01:13:45.175 --> 01:13:46.076 Do you want to hear one more? 1139 01:13:46.476 --> 01:13:47.096 Yeah, I do. 1140 01:13:48.579 --> 01:13:48.879 Sorry. 1141 01:13:49.400 --> 01:13:55.585 I think this one's quite, should be, actually, well, actually there's one more, but then there's one that is such a good quote. 1142 01:13:55.625 --> 01:13:56.786 I kind of want to just read it out anyway. 1143 01:13:56.806 --> 01:13:57.246 You must do it. 1144 01:13:57.286 --> 01:13:57.546 Is that okay? 1145 01:13:57.646 --> 01:13:58.367 All right. 1146 01:13:58.887 --> 01:14:00.569 I think we should use the carrot and stick approach. 1147 01:14:00.869 --> 01:14:06.173 You take a carrot, you stick it up his fucking ass, followed by the stick, followed by an even bigger, rougher carrot. 1148 01:14:08.500 --> 01:14:11.641 Well, I think that's Malcolm. 1149 01:14:12.462 --> 01:14:14.142 But the rougher carrot, I don't remember. 1150 01:14:14.983 --> 01:14:15.603 That's one of yours. 1151 01:14:15.803 --> 01:14:16.443 It's one of mine. 1152 01:14:16.523 --> 01:14:19.005 Yeah, I don't know if Alistair could get away with that. 1153 01:14:19.045 --> 01:14:20.905 But it's one of my favourite. 1154 01:14:21.065 --> 01:14:22.166 I thought it might be a trick question. 1155 01:14:22.186 --> 01:14:24.627 I thought it might be Alistair quoting Malcolm. 1156 01:14:26.067 --> 01:14:28.108 Adding the rougher carrot. 1157 01:14:28.348 --> 01:14:28.849 Well, who knows? 1158 01:14:29.009 --> 01:14:29.889 Maybe he has quoted it. 1159 01:14:30.109 --> 01:14:33.651 And then the last one, which I think will, you know, it's just fuck the fuck off. 1160 01:14:34.231 --> 01:14:34.431 Yeah. 1161 01:14:36.202 --> 01:14:36.882 Fuck the fuck off. 1162 01:14:37.022 --> 01:14:37.742 Yeah. 1163 01:14:37.802 --> 01:14:38.623 Is that even a quote? 1164 01:14:38.643 --> 01:14:40.783 So that's just

a thing people say, isn't it? 1165 01:14:40.823 --> 01:14:41.623 Fuck the fuck off. 1166 01:14:41.663 --> 01:14:42.363 That's not a... 1167 01:14:43.164 --> 01:14:43.964 I'm from Glasgow. 1168 01:14:44.004 --> 01:14:44.884 We say that all the time. 1169 01:14:47.445 --> 01:14:50.565 You hear that, you know, in the maternity ward. 1170 01:14:52.406 --> 01:14:55.166 When you first arrived. 1171 01:14:55.547 --> 01:14:56.147 Here's your baby. 1172 01:14:56.247 --> 01:14:57.007 Fuck the fuck off. 1173 01:15:00.603 --> 01:15:01.243 That's Alistair. 1174 01:15:01.683 --> 01:15:02.284 That's Alistair. 1175 01:15:02.304 --> 01:15:02.784 That's Alistair. 1176 01:15:02.804 --> 01:15:03.464 Fuck the fuck off. 1177 01:15:03.504 --> 01:15:03.684 Yeah. 1178 01:15:03.924 --> 01:15:05.345 Apparently that's something that he would say. 1179 01:15:05.405 --> 01:15:11.247 I mean, cause Mark Kermode asked him about, asked him about that when in the loop came out, would you, would you ask, would, would he ever go full tuck? 1180 01:15:11.267 --> 01:15:13.147 And he said, Oh yeah, I did used to say fuck the fuck off. 1181 01:15:13.547 --> 01:15:16.808 He said, maybe he did invent that. 1182 01:15:17.129 --> 01:15:17.909 That's quite a good one. 1183 01:15:18.329 --> 01:15:27.072 I meant to ask like, other than him, like doing gags, like what did he, what did you talk about when you've, that first time you met him, when you were sitting next to each other, did he say, Oh, love the thick of it. 1184 01:15:27.092 --> 01:15:27.312 Love what 1185 01:15:30.573 --> 01:15:34.357 I can't really remember what we... We didn't talk about a lot because... 1186 01:15:37.139 --> 01:15:40.482 I think he said the show was rubbish and stuff like that. 1187 01:15:41.262 --> 01:15:45.806 But it was all generally in that kind of jovial, viperish kind of tone. 1188 01:15:46.907 --> 01:15:52.372 I think he kind of slagged off the show, but also said he liked it as well. 1189 01:15:53.273 --> 01:15:53.813 But I don't think we did. 1190 01:15:53.833 --> 01:15:55.475 We didn't speak of anything of any... 1191 01:15:57.501 --> 01:16:25.355 I saw him again quite really about a year ago I saw him because I was getting the train to Glasgow because he happened down to Glasgow a lot and he was getting off at press and I didn't see him but I think he was going to see his football team Barnsley Barnsley because it's from the north so I saw him briefly then but we never really talk about anything really because it's a bit embarrassing but 1192 01:16:26.710 --> 01:16:28.852 You know, and also it's not really true. 1193 01:16:29.913 --> 01:16:33.957 It's not, I didn't study him or I'm not like him. 1194 01:16:34.538 --> 01:16:36.380 We don't, you know. 1195 01:16:37.852 --> 01:16:46.477 I think, as I've said before, the people, the only people I knew who behaved the way the character in the script behaved were agents in America. 1196 01:16:48.038 --> 01:16:55.262 At CAA or ICM, you know, the agents were

very powerful and potent and brutal and funny. 1197 01:16:55.983 --> 01:16:58.464 They were really funny and they really swore a lot. 1198 01:17:00.405 --> 01:17:01.046 So that was... 1199 01:17:03.135 --> 01:17:08.878 If I had a picture in my head, it was of a number of American agents I'd come across. 1200 01:17:11.099 --> 01:17:18.423 But these untruths become popular and begin to become preferable to the truth. 1201 01:17:20.564 --> 01:17:24.086 The apocrypha kind of takes on a life of its own. 1202 01:17:24.666 --> 01:17:28.628 Well, it's something I realised from having been around for a while now. 1203 01:17:29.469 --> 01:17:32.250 I'm often asked things, questions about, 1204 01:17:33.636 --> 01:17:37.398 You know, when we're publicizing things, I'm asked about whether it's Doctor Who or this or that. 1205 01:17:38.519 --> 01:17:41.321 And I'll tell some story that I've probably told a hundred times before. 1206 01:17:42.582 --> 01:17:58.212 But sometimes I realize while I'm telling it, I've buffed it up and shaved bits off of it and maybe altered the ending a little bit to make it more palatable or make it funnier. 1207 01:17:59.492 --> 01:18:00.333 And it's not the truth. 1208 01:18:03.180 --> 01:18:04.121 It's better than the truth. 1209 01:18:04.201 --> 01:18:05.663 It's more show business friendly. 1210 01:18:06.124 --> 01:18:10.308 That's why I often say to people, do you want the real answer or do you want the showbiz answer? 1211 01:18:11.369 --> 01:18:14.172 Because the showbiz answer is more audience friendly. 1212 01:18:15.214 --> 01:18:21.600 But the real answer is more complex, maybe a bit duller, but might pay dividends. 1213 01:18:22.722 --> 01:18:23.643 But then maybe not. 1214 01:18:25.519 --> 01:18:30.863 as the ring of truth about it, like running into Alistair on the train on, on the way up North. 1215 01:18:30.983 --> 01:18:31.523 That's true. 1216 01:18:31.723 --> 01:18:33.905 But there was nothing to, there's no punchline to it. 1217 01:18:35.386 --> 01:18:36.126 Just, you saw him on a train. 1218 01:18:36.146 --> 01:18:38.628 It's just like, you know, is the buffet bar open? 1219 01:18:39.968 --> 01:18:40.569 No, it's shut now. 1220 01:18:40.629 --> 01:18:41.249 Oh, that's a shame. 1221 01:18:41.329 --> 01:18:41.630 Okay. 1222 01:18:42.590 --> 01:18:42.890 All right. 1223 01:18:43.591 --> 01:18:46.193 There's no, there's no gag to it. 1224 01:18:47.233 --> 01:18:48.834 So sometimes you have to make up a gag. 1225 01:18:49.595 --> 01:18:54.178 Cause I mean, you can't go on, you know, you can't go on Graham Norton and just talk. 1226 01:18:55.176 --> 01:18:56.797 You've got to go on and have stories. 1227 01:18:56.817 --> 01:19:01.398 It's like all of those shows, they phone you up and say what you're going to talk about. 1228 01:19:01.959 --> 01:19:03.179 Meaning, have you got any gags? 1229 01:19:04.660 --> 01:19:06.840 It's kind of like being in front of Spandau Ballet again, isn't it? 1230 01:19:08.121 --> 01:19:09.081 Did the stand-up comedy. 1231 01:19:11.422 --> 01:19:11.682 Yeah. 1232 01:19:12.022 --> 01:19:12.242 Yeah. 1233 01:19:12.322 --> 01:19:12.602 It is. 1234 01:19:13.083 --> 01:19:13.843 Is that how that works? 1235 01:19:13.863 --> 01:19:15.884 They ring you up and they run you through? 1236 01:19:16.024 --> 01:19:16.764 Oh, yeah. 1237 01:19:17.004 --> 01:19:17.464 Any show. 1238 01:19:18.405 --> 01:19:19.205 Any show like that. 1239 01:19:19.265 --> 01:19:21.126 I feel like we're not doing our job properly. 1240 01:19:21.486 --> 01:19:22.226 Oh, yeah. 1241 01:19:22.266 --> 01:19:24.747 No, but I think that's why podcasts are very successful. 1242 01:19:26.023 --> 01:19:32.286 because it allows people a little longer with the folks. 1243 01:19:32.306 --> 01:19:46.174 I mean, I think it's a weird world we live in because when I grew up, people who are actors were mysterious and distant and didn't live in the same world as me. 1244 01:19:47.315 --> 01:19:52.598 Whereas everyone I see now, every actor seems to be saying, I'm exactly like you. 1245 01:19:55.533 --> 01:20:00.114 We are all the same, and I'm exactly the same as you all are. 1246 01:20:01.895 --> 01:20:02.695 So please love me. 1247 01:20:04.195 --> 01:20:07.656 Whereas before they were slightly, you didn't know who they were. 1248 01:20:08.576 --> 01:20:10.897 And you get these little slivers of who they might be. 1249 01:20:11.477 --> 01:20:14.578 So they had a mystery, and you probably gave them the benefit of the doubt. 1250 01:20:15.198 --> 01:20:15.378 Mm. 1251 01:20:16.478 --> 01:20:19.619 But it's the way the world is, because the biggest stars in the world have to do. 1252 01:20:20.968 --> 01:20:36.817 You know, I see George Clooney or Brad Pitt or Nicole or any of those people, they've got to be on shows talking about the funniest thing that happened to them on the set, what really made you laugh or what was, you know. 1253 01:20:36.897 --> 01:20:41.500 I get so bored with hearing what a hilarious time everybody had. 1254 01:20:41.640 --> 01:20:43.321 You obviously can't move in Hollywood. 1255 01:20:43.861 --> 01:20:50.345 You can't move around film studios for the laughter or people falling about at the hilarious things that happened on set. 1256 01:20:50.365 --> 01:20:50.505 Yeah. 1257 01:20:51.394 --> 01:21:14.506 you know what's terrible you know and did you take any mementos from the set of schindler's list or whatever it might be do you know what i mean yeah totally i did not expect schindler's list to be the film i didn't but you know what it's like but that is what it's like what would you take from the set of schindler's list then 1258 01:21:16.777 --> 01:21:17.678 Well, that's an extreme. 1259 01:21:17.738 --> 01:21:18.398 But you know what I mean? 1260 01:21:18.418 --> 01:21:19.259 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1261 01:21:19.299 --> 01:21:20.240 Of course, absolutely. 1262 01:21:20.300 --> 01:21:21.161 What a hilarious thing. 1263 01:21:21.181 --> 01:21:22.201 What

did you take? 1264 01:21:22.242 --> 01:21:25.504 Tell us about a day when you couldn't stop laughing. 1265 01:21:26.305 --> 01:21:26.885 This is funny. 1266 01:21:27.045 --> 01:21:27.846 You mentioned Schindler's List. 1267 01:21:27.866 --> 01:21:31.889 But I actually have been to the place where they shot the Schindler's List in Poland. 1268 01:21:32.070 --> 01:21:32.310 Yeah. 1269 01:21:32.430 --> 01:21:34.552 This is taking a turn, I didn't expect to say. 1270 01:21:34.592 --> 01:21:38.395 But where Spielberg built the camp outside of Krakow. 1271 01:21:39.916 --> 01:21:40.436 Yeah. 1272 01:21:40.456 --> 01:21:43.478 Where they shot a lot of the Jewish ghetto stuff and the camps. 1273 01:21:43.918 --> 01:21:46.299 He built that just outside Krakow in this big quarry. 1274 01:21:46.419 --> 01:21:47.440 Well, in a quarry. 1275 01:21:47.540 --> 01:21:49.701 Quarries, you know, come back to the quarries, you know, Doctor Who. 1276 01:21:50.121 --> 01:21:51.422 But it was this massive quarry. 1277 01:21:51.962 --> 01:21:55.504 And they pulled the set down when they left. 1278 01:21:55.524 --> 01:21:57.405 But they hadn't completely removed it. 1279 01:21:57.445 --> 01:21:58.666 So you can go to the quarry. 1280 01:21:59.126 --> 01:22:03.027 I mean, I didn't know this until I was in Krakow with my mate, and we were like, oh, what is there to do in Krakow? 1281 01:22:03.047 --> 01:22:04.948 And we had wandered around and seen all the main sites. 1282 01:22:04.968 --> 01:22:10.150 We were like, oh, there's – and I – I mean, obviously, it's not an easy film to watch, but it's a great film. 1283 01:22:10.370 --> 01:22:12.130 And I said, oh, they shot it just over there. 1284 01:22:12.230 --> 01:22:20.373 So we went out, and you can still see, like, the barbed wire poles, the holder poles, and it's all there. 1285 01:22:20.853 --> 01:22:21.653 But it's all overgrown. 1286 01:22:21.713 --> 01:22:22.414 It's just been left. 1287 01:22:22.494 --> 01:22:23.374 Yeah, that's – 1288 01:22:23.874 --> 01:22:24.775 It's a wonderful film. 1289 01:22:24.895 --> 01:22:25.396 It's great. 1290 01:22:26.357 --> 01:22:29.700 So powerful and so beautifully made. 1291 01:22:30.421 --> 01:22:34.044 But I remember I did a play with Liam Neeson, who's delightful. 1292 01:22:34.885 --> 01:22:39.029 And he'd been in Schindler's List, which was both a... 1293 01:22:40.290 --> 01:22:59.152 a joy and a curse for us because we were in a play, which wasn't that successful, but it was on in New York and it was sold out because people would, busloads of people would come into Manhattan from outside of the city to see Oscar Schindler. 1294 01:23:00.207 --> 01:23:06.629 And of course, as the evening wore on, well about five minutes into the play, they realized it wasn't, they weren't going to see Oscar Shinder. 1295 01:23:06.649 --> 01:23:12.832 They were Oscar Wilde, it was actually. 1296 01:23:12.872 --> 01:23:13.532 But actually, 1297 01:23:14.730 --> 01:23:22.895 But I always remember this made me laugh so much because obviously Liam, that really projected him into this kind of big, big league. 1298 01:23:23.495 --> 01:23:41.046 But I've known and admired Liam for years because Liam was a great, and also he was a great, for those of us who like have accents and all that stuff, Liam was a great model and inspiration because he was doing all this great work and he had his accent and he had his Irish identity. 1299 01:23:41.506 --> 01:23:41.686 Yeah. 1300 01:23:43.593 --> 01:23:57.876 And they had, for the play we were doing, I remember they had a very grand sort of cocktail party in a bar somewhere in Manhattan to publicise the beginning of the play. 1301 01:23:58.637 --> 01:24:10.119 And, you know, obviously a lot of these parties are, you know, the waiting staff are running in and out with, you know, trays full of sausages and hummus and cocktails. 1302 01:24:10.599 --> 01:24:12.900 This guy who was a waiter came running up the stairs 1303 01:24:14.120 --> 01:24:19.283 onto the floor we were on with this tray of sausages, and the first person he saw was Liam. 1304 01:24:20.004 --> 01:24:22.705 He went, wow, Darkman. 1305 01:24:24.767 --> 01:24:30.150 Which of course was a kind of film, a superhero movie that Liam had made. 1306 01:24:30.350 --> 01:24:34.412 And I loved that that's who this guy reckoned that Liam was. 1307 01:24:35.053 --> 01:24:37.314 Never mind Oscar Schindler, it was Darkman, whoa. 1308 01:24:38.900 --> 01:24:39.080 Darkman. 1309 01:24:39.500 --> 01:24:41.001 I thought you were going to say Excalibur. 1310 01:24:41.142 --> 01:24:42.402 Excalibur. 1311 01:24:42.422 --> 01:24:44.484 That would have been a deep cut for Liam. 1312 01:24:44.504 --> 01:24:45.885 Yeah, yeah. 1313 01:24:46.225 --> 01:24:46.505 Wow. 1314 01:24:46.925 --> 01:24:47.146 Wow. 1315 01:24:47.366 --> 01:24:49.387 Did you talk to Liam at all about... 1316 01:24:49.427 --> 01:24:51.709 So Shindler's List had just come out. 1317 01:24:51.789 --> 01:24:52.229 Is that right? 1318 01:24:52.249 --> 01:24:54.911 So he just... What, Shindler's List had just come out? 1319 01:24:54.931 --> 01:24:57.833 So when you were doing the play with him, it had just come out and people were... 1320 01:24:58.213 --> 01:24:58.654 I can't remember. 1321 01:24:58.674 --> 01:25:02.617 It hadn't just come out, but I think it'd been a year or a couple of years. 1322 01:25:02.637 --> 01:25:06.880 But I think it's the first time Lee had been on stage since that. 1323 01:25:07.241 --> 01:25:14.667 So I think there was a big, understandably, a kind of interest in seeing Oscar Schindler live. 1324 01:25:14.927 --> 01:25:15.107 Yeah. 1325 01:25:16.208 --> 01:25:17.929 But it wasn't Oscar Schindler. 1326 01:25:17.949 --> 01:25:25.074 So, I mean, speaking of actors, and am I right in thinking that you met, like, because you're a big Duvall fan and a big De Niro fan and Pacino fan. 1327 01:25:25.114 --> 01:25:26.595 And I want to say, you've met all three of them.

1328 01:25:26.615 --> 01:25:27.436 I met all of them, yeah. 1329 01:25:27.496 --> 01:25:27.796 Yeah. 1330 01:25:27.896 --> 01:25:29.177 Like, how did that come about? 1331 01:25:29.237 --> 01:25:31.419 Three legends, speaking of acting legends. 1332 01:25:33.981 --> 01:25:37.143 Oh, God, is this about... Well, one of them I met through Liam... 1333 01:25:37.593 --> 01:25:37.893 Oh, okay. 1334 01:25:38.213 --> 01:25:41.915 Because Liam, often big stars would come and visit him after the show. 1335 01:25:43.575 --> 01:25:50.678 And yet, you know, we'd look over the balcony from where those of us who played the smaller parts, as tend to be, the dressing rooms are further. 1336 01:25:51.038 --> 01:25:55.739 The big stars, the lead in the play always has the dressing room that's closest to the stage. 1337 01:25:56.640 --> 01:25:59.961 And if you have a smaller part, you might be on the next floor. 1338 01:26:00.381 --> 01:26:03.042 If you have a smaller part again, you might be on the next. 1339 01:26:03.282 --> 01:26:05.783 And then if you have a very small part, you'll be right at the top. 1340 01:26:09.235 --> 01:26:21.146 There would always be people, including myself, looking over the stairs after the show to see Jessica Lange or whoever is being led into Liam's. 1341 01:26:22.187 --> 01:26:25.110 But he said to me one day, he said, Oh, Alice is coming tonight. 1342 01:26:26.475 --> 01:26:28.677 Was that a passable Liam Neeson impression? 1343 01:26:28.697 --> 01:26:29.557 That was good. 1344 01:26:30.358 --> 01:26:31.559 I don't think so. 1345 01:26:31.579 --> 01:26:34.001 I haven't really got a Liam. 1346 01:26:34.381 --> 01:26:35.182 Have you ever seen Taken? 1347 01:26:35.742 --> 01:26:35.842 Eh? 1348 01:26:35.942 --> 01:26:37.964 Have you seen Taken, the film he did? 1349 01:26:38.024 --> 01:26:38.744 Of course. 1350 01:26:38.824 --> 01:26:40.085 If you don't give my daughter back now. 1351 01:26:40.225 --> 01:26:41.486 I mean, that's the best I can do. 1352 01:26:41.506 --> 01:26:41.647 What? 1353 01:26:41.687 --> 01:26:43.968 I'm not going to, no. 1354 01:26:44.228 --> 01:26:45.089 Now you know what it's like. 1355 01:26:45.129 --> 01:26:45.810 That'll be the end of it. 1356 01:26:45.850 --> 01:26:48.572 Yeah, I'm so sorry. 1357 01:26:49.152 --> 01:26:49.552 I will find you. 1358 01:26:49.572 --> 01:26:51.754 No, he said to me, oh, Al's in tonight. 1359 01:26:52.054 --> 01:26:52.715 So come and meet him. 1360 01:26:54.037 --> 01:26:58.182 So I went into Liam's and... 1361 01:26:58.302 --> 01:27:00.504 It was all like this. 1362 01:27:01.325 --> 01:27:05.269 I don't know what am I going to talk to him about. 1363 01:27:05.289 --> 01:27:07.332 I don't know what to talk to him about. 1364 01:27:08.353 --> 01:27:08.633 No. 1365 01:27:09.133 --> 01:27:09.894 And of course you end up... 1366 01:27:10.695 --> 01:27:17.460 My fallback position with those guys is because they're all Italian, is to talk about Italian stuff. 1367 01:27:17.480 --> 01:27:17.861 Of course. 1368 01:27:18.361 --> 01:27:27.869 You know, but it doesn't really work because they're so distanced themselves from Italy that they might know where someone's come from. 1369 01:27:28.609 --> 01:27:30.451 But he was lovely. 1370 01:27:30.771 --> 01:27:31.972 He was absolutely lovely. 1371 01:27:32.012 --> 01:27:37.276 But when I met him, I thought, I don't really want to meet people who I really admire. 1372 01:27:39.185 --> 01:27:40.566 because I've got nothing to say to them. 1373 01:27:42.146 --> 01:27:47.248 Because you can't say, you can't get into a big discussion about Michael Corleone. 1374 01:27:48.469 --> 01:27:49.289 How did you do that? 1375 01:27:49.669 --> 01:27:50.809 I'd love to, how did you do that? 1376 01:27:51.110 --> 01:27:51.870 Where do you start? 1377 01:27:52.650 --> 01:27:54.471 How do you figure out what to do? 1378 01:27:54.951 --> 01:27:55.991 How do you say that line? 1379 01:27:56.472 --> 01:27:57.152 What was that process? 1380 01:27:57.312 --> 01:27:58.492 You can't do that because you don't know them. 1381 01:27:59.253 --> 01:28:03.034 And you're nobody, you're three flights up in the theater. 1382 01:28:03.774 --> 01:28:05.135 But he was lovely, he was great. 1383 01:28:06.505 --> 01:28:15.374 Robert Duvall was just, Armando and I were in America selling the thick of it at some television thing. 1384 01:28:17.256 --> 01:28:23.562 We were in a corner in a hotel, and Duvall walked into our corner, obviously by mistake, and looked at us. 1385 01:28:23.582 --> 01:28:25.604 I was like, fuck, that's Robert Duvall. 1386 01:28:25.704 --> 01:28:29.268 He just looked at us, smiled, and he waved with that crinkle face, and he was gone. 1387 01:28:30.500 --> 01:28:33.521 That was the best way to sort of meet people. 1388 01:28:36.043 --> 01:28:40.865 Robert De Niro was very, I don't know how to tell it, whether I should tell this story or not. 1389 01:28:41.365 --> 01:28:42.906 You can tell the showbiz version if you want. 1390 01:28:44.566 --> 01:28:47.848 Well, it's not, I'm such an admirer of us. 1391 01:28:48.768 --> 01:28:53.070 What he's done is bravery and courage and taken on Trump. 1392 01:28:54.090 --> 01:28:55.051 What a guy. 1393 01:28:55.471 --> 01:28:58.452 I mean, what an amazing person. 1394 01:28:59.333 --> 01:28:59.493 Yeah. 1395 01:29:00.249 --> 01:29:02.991 And also playing Vito Collioy. 1396 01:29:04.292 --> 01:29:10.556 I think it's just, I believe that person lived and that we got to see him. 1397 01:29:11.977 --> 01:29:18.901 I can't believe, you see that performance, it's like, it's like a memory from the past or something. 1398 01:29:18.961 --> 01:29:22.844 It's, and he looks incredible. 1399 01:29:23.064 --> 01:29:26.686 He looks like someone from an old photograph come to life. 1400 01:29:28.868 --> 01:29:29.008 Um, 1401 01:29:30.458 --> 01:29:33.099 Okay, we went to, I don't really go out. 1402 01:29:33.139 --> 01:29:35.139 I get invited places that I don't normally go.

1403 01:29:36.080 --> 01:29:37.060 Then I got an invitation. 1404 01:29:37.640 --> 01:29:44.222 Robert De Niro invites you to the opening of, they have a restaurant chain, right? 1405 01:29:44.242 --> 01:29:46.022 Don't they? 1406 01:29:46.382 --> 01:29:47.683 So they opened up a restaurant. 1407 01:29:47.703 --> 01:29:51.124 So I said, well, I love Robert De Niro. 1408 01:29:51.824 --> 01:29:54.725 He's like, maybe I should go. 1409 01:29:54.765 --> 01:29:55.705 No, no, I won't go. 1410 01:29:56.645 --> 01:29:59.326 And then, wait a minute, it says, Robert De Niro invites you. 1411 01:30:00.453 --> 01:30:01.633 well, he must have checked this. 1412 01:30:01.673 --> 01:30:02.914 He must have gone through the list. 1413 01:30:03.734 --> 01:30:08.175 So if I don't turn up, even if he'll go, forget him. 1414 01:30:09.056 --> 01:30:09.576 So I went. 1415 01:30:10.376 --> 01:30:12.837 And it was big and it was packed and all that stuff. 1416 01:30:13.917 --> 01:30:15.558 And it was a seating plan and I was going. 1417 01:30:15.778 --> 01:30:17.218 And I was sat with some other actors. 1418 01:30:17.278 --> 01:30:18.639 Some other actors had been invited. 1419 01:30:21.659 --> 01:30:22.280 We were all looking. 1420 01:30:22.700 --> 01:30:23.060 Where is he? 1421 01:30:23.080 --> 01:30:23.540 Where is he? 1422 01:30:23.560 --> 01:30:24.540 He's over there. 1423 01:30:25.080 --> 01:30:26.021 It's actually Robert Deere. 1424 01:30:26.041 --> 01:30:26.601 Fantastic. 1425 01:30:27.858 --> 01:30:34.184 But then the seating plan was presented and all the other actors hated me because in the seating plan, I was sat next to Robert De Niro. 1426 01:30:35.785 --> 01:30:36.166 No way. 1427 01:30:36.486 --> 01:30:37.507 So I'm like, oh, fuck. 1428 01:30:39.649 --> 01:30:40.990 Is this good news or bad news? 1429 01:30:45.534 --> 01:30:51.480 Is this the worst thing that's ever happened to me or the best thing that's ever happened? 1430 01:30:51.500 --> 01:30:51.840 I don't know. 1431 01:30:52.681 --> 01:30:53.662 But there was no way out. 1432 01:30:57.768 --> 01:30:59.429 I was sat next to Robert De Niro. 1433 01:31:00.550 --> 01:31:04.091 So I was going to have to make conversation or something. 1434 01:31:04.952 --> 01:31:06.493 Or maybe I should just not take my seat. 1435 01:31:06.613 --> 01:31:07.693 Maybe I should just go. 1436 01:31:09.814 --> 01:31:13.916 And struggling with this whole thing of, you know, well, if you don't take your seat, you're just being a wimp. 1437 01:31:15.117 --> 01:31:17.478 You know, and he might be great and blah, blah, blah. 1438 01:31:17.878 --> 01:31:18.939 Might be lovely to talk to. 1439 01:31:20.560 --> 01:31:20.840 Do it. 1440 01:31:22.400 --> 01:31:27.843 So the other actors all hated me because I had this privilege of sitting next to Bobby, Robert De Niro. 1441 01:31:29.384 --> 01:31:32.205 And I was sat here and Robert was there. 1442 01:31:32.485 --> 01:31:34.266 And there were two Americans sat there. 1443 01:31:34.446 --> 01:31:35.227 They were probably huge. 1444 01:31:35.247 --> 01:31:36.007 I don't know who they were. 1445 01:31:37.688 --> 01:31:40.189 But Robert spoke to these people. 1446 01:31:41.250 --> 01:31:45.012 They were talking to him all night long. 1447 01:31:45.412 --> 01:31:47.233 And then very, very occasionally he'd go, 1448 01:31:50.403 --> 01:31:52.184 And I thought, well, what do I do here? 1449 01:31:52.904 --> 01:31:59.307 Because they're obviously talking about Trump and all important things and stuff like that. 1450 01:31:59.547 --> 01:32:00.907 Do I try to catch his eye? 1451 01:32:02.048 --> 01:32:09.771 If I catch his eye, will he go, oh, this looks like a seasoned actor who might be interested in chatting about movies and stuff like that. 1452 01:32:10.611 --> 01:32:12.872 But no, I'll do it like that. 1453 01:32:13.112 --> 01:32:14.513 And there's like a little window. 1454 01:32:15.678 --> 01:32:19.640 Just every time he looked around, but he only looked around about three times. 1455 01:32:19.940 --> 01:32:22.382 The glance was getting smaller and smaller and smaller. 1456 01:32:22.402 --> 01:32:25.043 And I thought the next time he's not going to look around. 1457 01:32:26.064 --> 01:32:27.285 So I thought, I've got to get in. 1458 01:32:30.667 --> 01:32:32.588 Do I get in or do I not? 1459 01:32:33.868 --> 01:32:34.909 That was my dilemma. 1460 01:32:35.029 --> 01:32:38.431 Do I try to engage Robert De Niro in conversation or not? 1461 01:32:39.172 --> 01:32:39.792 I should have. 1462 01:32:42.600 --> 01:32:48.025 I should have been conscious of what people say about him, which is, he's a wonderful man, but a man of few words. 1463 01:32:49.367 --> 01:32:49.887 But I didn't. 1464 01:32:49.907 --> 01:32:54.392 I thought, I'm a wimp if I don't try and engage him in conversation. 1465 01:32:55.653 --> 01:32:56.214 So I did. 1466 01:32:57.435 --> 01:33:02.300 The next time he looked around, I plunged into that window, smashed it open. 1467 01:33:02.920 --> 01:33:16.711 And I just ranted at him in the nicest possible way, using my only fallback position with the Italian-American gods, which was Italy. 1468 01:33:17.852 --> 01:33:20.334 And I just spoke about my father in my crying. 1469 01:33:21.394 --> 01:33:26.717 and the village which I came from in Italy called Piccinisco and which I'd just got Italian citizenship. 1470 01:33:26.777 --> 01:33:29.158 And he'd got Italian citizenship as well. 1471 01:33:29.518 --> 01:33:31.639 And I said the village was very small, but it was lovely. 1472 01:33:31.659 --> 01:33:33.640 And I spoke for about five minutes. 1473 01:33:35.261 --> 01:33:36.262 Well, it probably wasn't that. 1474 01:33:36.282 --> 01:33:38.042 It was probably like a minute. 1475 01:33:38.843 --> 01:33:39.823 But it was terrifying. 1476 01:33:39.843 --> 01:33:41.264 It was like jumping out of an aeroplane. 1477 01:33:43.585 --> 01:33:46.747 LAUGHTER Looking for the parachute, you know. 1478 01:33:46.827 -->

01:33:47.247 LAUGHTER 1479 01:33:49.338 --> 01:33:51.947 Please, please, please just. 1480 01:33:53.212 --> 01:33:55.279 And he listened to us and he went, yeah. 1481 01:34:01.697 --> 01:34:01.817 Oh. 1482 01:34:02.158 --> 01:34:04.559 And I crawled away. 1483 01:34:05.079 --> 01:34:05.740 Oh. 1484 01:34:06.100 --> 01:34:08.462 But, you know, he's wonderful. 1485 01:34:09.162 --> 01:34:14.826 And why would you have stopped for this rant, this unintelligible rant? 1486 01:34:14.886 --> 01:34:16.887 I'm sure I got completely Gleswigian as well. 1487 01:34:17.628 --> 01:34:18.929 He must have gone, who is this guy? 1488 01:34:18.949 --> 01:34:19.789 Who sat him here? 1489 01:34:21.090 --> 01:34:23.012 Let's get on with trying to get rid of Trump. 1490 01:34:23.852 --> 01:34:25.253 So thank God he did that. 1491 01:34:25.373 --> 01:34:26.354 He didn't listen to me. 1492 01:34:26.894 --> 01:34:27.655 But it was, you know... 1493 01:34:28.660 --> 01:34:29.521 It was embarrassing. 1494 01:34:30.322 --> 01:34:33.465 So that's why I avoid going to see famous people. 1495 01:34:34.025 --> 01:34:34.666 But I love him. 1496 01:34:35.286 --> 01:34:36.648 And I just think he's incredible. 1497 01:34:36.968 --> 01:34:37.749 He's so brave. 1498 01:34:37.789 --> 01:34:40.291 I mean, he must get death threats all the time. 1499 01:34:40.952 --> 01:34:43.915 But my God, he doesn't stop. 1500 01:34:44.515 --> 01:35:04.054 amazing do you see that video that he released I think where Trump was either getting elected or re-elected and he was just it's like a black and white sort of camera this punk this clown this absolute gangster he's fabulous no holds barred absolutely fabulous amazing man and what an actor it's such a shame as well because also I think movies have changed so much 1501 01:35:04.735 --> 01:35:07.677 there aren't these roles around anymore. 1502 01:35:08.017 --> 01:35:10.499 He played those fabulous seminal roles. 1503 01:35:10.519 --> 01:35:11.579 And also he's hilarious. 1504 01:35:12.440 --> 01:35:14.641 I mean, New York, New York is one of the funniest. 1505 01:35:15.462 --> 01:35:16.182 Midnight run. 1506 01:35:16.642 --> 01:35:17.243 Oh, yeah. 1507 01:35:17.263 --> 01:35:17.903 He's fabulous. 1508 01:35:17.943 --> 01:35:19.004 He's hilarious in that. 1509 01:35:19.304 --> 01:35:21.345 But he's hilarious in New York, New York also. 1510 01:35:22.066 --> 01:35:22.426 Brilliant. 1511 01:35:22.886 --> 01:35:23.567 So that was Mike's. 1512 01:35:23.807 --> 01:35:24.727 I'd love to meet him again. 1513 01:35:25.808 --> 01:35:29.290 I wouldn't say anything. 1514 01:35:29.490 --> 01:35:30.211 I'd just sit there. 1515 01:35:30.411 --> 01:35:32.973 Hats off to you, though, for jumping in that window. 1516 01:35:33.802 --> 01:35:35.063 Do you think that was the right thing to do? 1517 01:35:36.064 --> 01:35:37.865 I think if I, I mean, I don't know. 1518 01:35:39.406 --> 01:35:41.548 I would like to think I would do the same thing because it's Robert De Niro. 1519 01:35:41.748 --> 01:35:43.069 You know, it's like the maestro. 1520 01:35:43.229 --> 01:35:45.411 Yeah, you'd hate yourself for not trying. 1521 01:35:46.131 --> 01:35:47.572 But I hated myself for trying. 1522 01:35:47.592 --> 01:35:53.637 You know, so there was no, I didn't win. 1523 01:35:55.704 --> 01:36:00.147 except I learnt that didn't matter really because he was incredible. 1524 01:36:00.247 --> 01:36:01.007 He was still incredible. 1525 01:36:01.328 --> 01:36:05.310 Yeah, well, I'm sure he's like, he's had a lot weirder and a lot worse. 1526 01:36:05.490 --> 01:36:09.273 I mean that and I'm trying to make that in the best way. 1527 01:36:09.373 --> 01:36:17.258 Thanks for placing that in that kind of zone of weirdness, that zone of weird interactions that poor Robert De Niro has had to interact with. 1528 01:36:17.278 --> 01:36:20.119 He was dressed as Travis Bickle with Mohicans and stuff like that. 1529 01:36:20.920 --> 01:36:22.321 And now he's got a... Not as... 1530 01:36:23.922 --> 01:36:24.423 Not at all. 1531 01:36:24.604 --> 01:36:26.667 A geeky Gleswigean ice cream man. 1532 01:36:29.393 --> 01:36:29.894 No, he's great. 1533 01:36:29.934 --> 01:36:30.314 I love him. 1534 01:36:31.176 --> 01:36:31.917 I love him. 1535 01:36:32.438 --> 01:36:34.122 It diminished my love for him for a little bit. 1536 01:36:36.040 --> 01:36:38.882 Do you have a favourite, I mean, you just mentioned a couple of bangers there. 1537 01:36:38.902 --> 01:36:42.624 Do you have a favourite De Niro film or performance? 1538 01:36:43.945 --> 01:36:48.629 Well, you know, as I said, I think as a comic actor, he's deeply underrated. 1539 01:36:48.669 --> 01:36:51.731 I know he's, you know, he does meet the focus and all that stuff like that. 1540 01:36:51.751 --> 01:36:52.331 Of course, yeah, the new one. 1541 01:36:52.351 --> 01:36:55.573 You know, he's far more, you know, he's great at all that stuff, but... 1542 01:36:56.614 --> 01:37:11.284 In New York, New York, he plays this sax player who is a guy who is, he's a kind of waster, except he's fabulous at the saxophone, but he's also a charmer and he's witty. 1543 01:37:12.865 --> 01:37:17.148 But he makes terrible gags and jokes, but he's so charming he gets away with it. 1544 01:37:17.688 --> 01:37:18.469 And it's just funny. 1545 01:37:18.609 --> 01:37:19.709 I can't quite explain it. 1546 01:37:19.729 --> 01:37:20.770 He's just very, very funny. 1547 01:37:21.330 --> 01:37:24.292 Obviously, taxi driver's a mess, but Vito Corleone, 1548 01:37:25.353 --> 01:37:26.374 made that character real. 1549 01:37:27.755 --> 01:37:31.158 I kind of believe that person existed in that way. 1550 01:37:32.928 --> 01:37:36.689 And he only speaks about two lines of English. 1551 01:37:36.709 --> 01:37:37.850 He can't speak Italian. 1552 01:37:37.870 --> 01:37:39.010 He's not an Italian speaker. 1553 01:37:39.871 --> 01:37:41.871 He just went off and learned how to say those lines. 1554 01:37:43.512 -->

01:37:43.972 Amazing. 1555 01:37:44.192 --> 01:37:46.313 Yeah, because that was what he did at that time, wasn't it? 1556 01:37:46.413 --> 01:37:48.394 He was all about the method, wasn't it, in the research. 1557 01:37:48.434 --> 01:37:50.315 Like King of Comedy, which is probably my favorite. 1558 01:37:50.495 --> 01:37:51.575 Well, King of Comedy is great. 1559 01:37:51.615 --> 01:37:53.416 He would talk about humor. 1560 01:37:53.456 --> 01:37:58.818 He went off and did stand-up gigs in prep for that. 1561 01:37:58.858 --> 01:38:01.459 He wouldn't headline it, but he'd go into a nightclub and do a gig. 1562 01:38:02.359 --> 01:38:03.140 in the run up to that. 1563 01:38:03.220 --> 01:38:03.940 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1564 01:38:04.080 --> 01:38:17.786 But he also seems to be, I don't think he's a classic method actor in the sense that he gets himself into a zone and will not allow any interaction during the filming process. 1565 01:38:18.586 --> 01:38:21.967 I sense that he's a slightly more open than that. 1566 01:38:22.047 --> 01:38:26.789 And I have heard him say to actors, you know, let yourself off the hook. 1567 01:38:28.030 --> 01:38:28.550 You know, don't, 1568 01:38:28.906 --> 01:38:35.048 make it so difficult for yourself by concocting all of these challenges for yourself. 1569 01:38:35.848 --> 01:38:42.250 There's an elemental truth that you can pursue and touch, which all that research helps. 1570 01:38:42.930 --> 01:38:47.231 I think the older you get, the less the research is valuable to you, or you've done it. 1571 01:38:47.251 --> 01:38:52.513 I mean, it's like if I play a detective now, I'm not gonna go in a squad car for, 1572 01:38:53.786 --> 01:38:58.869 But when I was young, I'd go in a squad car and be with police people and detectives to see what that was like. 1573 01:38:59.229 --> 01:38:59.889 Did you ever do that? 1574 01:39:00.310 --> 01:39:00.970 Go on a ride along? 1575 01:39:03.071 --> 01:39:03.591 It was useless. 1576 01:39:05.612 --> 01:39:07.213 Except I was able to say I'd done it. 1577 01:39:07.293 --> 01:39:15.598 And I sort of, I think I needed that, needed to validate my authority in that way. 1578 01:39:16.038 --> 01:39:17.619 But it was not really helpful. 1579 01:39:18.113 --> 01:39:22.817 I appreciate you mentioning New York, New York, as far as De Niro, because that's a bit of a deep cut, I think, for Scorsese De Niro. 1580 01:39:22.837 --> 01:39:24.859 That's one that people don't often talk about. 1581 01:39:24.879 --> 01:39:25.720 Yeah, I think so, a little bit. 1582 01:39:25.740 --> 01:39:26.740 I think he kind of... 1583 01:39:26.820 --> 01:39:27.161 It's great. 1584 01:39:27.181 --> 01:39:31.685 Yeah, it sort of slips through the cracks a bit in between, like, you know, your taxi drivers and your raging bulls and your king of comedies. 1585 01:39:31.725 --> 01:39:36.509 But it's like, because he is funny, but he's also so sort of brutal as well to Liza Minnelli. 1586 01:39:36.829 --> 01:39:45.376 As

well, he's got his moments of, like, real visceral, kind of, like, you know, anger as well, as amongst the charm and the kind of... Yeah, it's a fabulous film, because also it's... 1587 01:39:46.277 --> 01:39:51.838 a mashup of Martin Scorsese and Vincent Minnelli. 1588 01:39:53.178 --> 01:40:05.601 You know, Scorsese is taking his love for new cinema and combining it with his love for classic Hollywood cinema. 1589 01:40:06.561 --> 01:40:11.022 So there are scenes in it which visually look like they've been short 1590 01:40:17.200 --> 01:40:24.202 You know, there's a huge argument that De Niro has with Liza Minnelli, like in a forest, in the snow. 1591 01:40:24.402 --> 01:40:24.642 Yeah. 1592 01:40:25.062 --> 01:40:26.523 And it's kind of like White Christmas. 1593 01:40:27.643 --> 01:40:33.084 But they're giving it full-on mean streets kind of stuff. 1594 01:40:33.524 --> 01:40:41.046 And also, of course, she is incredible and does New York, New York, and channels her mother so completely. 1595 01:40:41.366 --> 01:40:46.928 I went to see Liza Minnelli and I was in a – this is not a disappointing story. 1596 01:40:48.129 --> 01:40:53.111 I didn't meet her personally, but I was in Glasgow and I was visiting my mother. 1597 01:40:54.332 --> 01:40:55.532 God rest her, she's no longer with us. 1598 01:40:56.172 --> 01:41:01.475 And I'd go and visit my mother and I'd be with her and it would be like, 1599 01:41:03.289 --> 01:41:05.871 We'd have gone through all the topics of conversation by about half eight. 1600 01:41:06.452 --> 01:41:11.877 And I thought, well, I'll nip out and I'll stay the night, blah, blah, blah. 1601 01:41:12.277 --> 01:41:17.301 And I popped into town and I walked past the concert hall in Glasgow and it said, Liza Minnelli. 1602 01:41:17.321 --> 01:41:18.142 And I thought, that's interesting. 1603 01:41:18.563 --> 01:41:19.804 And they said, Liza Minnelli, tonight. 1604 01:41:21.281 --> 01:41:22.982 And I thought, what time is it? 1605 01:41:23.423 --> 01:41:26.485 And I said, I said, box office, have you got any tickets left for tonight? 1606 01:41:26.966 --> 01:41:27.406 She said, yeah. 1607 01:41:27.546 --> 01:41:28.607 I saw, I bought a ticket. 1608 01:41:29.387 --> 01:41:35.452 And I went to, packed, and this was about nine o'clock. 1609 01:41:36.713 --> 01:41:41.337 So I'm thinking the show's, I missed the illness, I missed a little bit of this. 1610 01:41:42.838 --> 01:41:47.562 Packed, crazy, Glasgow audience all going crazy because it's like, she does New York, New York. 1611 01:41:47.582 --> 01:41:47.682 Yeah. 1612 01:41:48.784 --> 01:41:50.945 I thought, oh, fucking hell, this is going to be some show. 1613 01:41:50.965 --> 01:41:51.786 It's New York, New York. 1614 01:41:53.467 --> 01:41:55.028 If I can make it, I'll make it anyway. 1615 01:41:55.048 --> 01:41:55.628 It's up to you. 1616 01:41:55.828 --> 01:41:57.569 New York, New York. 1617 01:41:58.670 --> 01:41:59.150 Good night. 1618 01:42:00.331 --> 01:42:01.692 And it's like five past nine. 1619 01:42:02.432 --> 01:42:05.174 And the show is winding up. 1620 01:42:06.535 --> 01:42:07.816 You can't do this to me, but it was. 1621 01:42:08.016 --> 01:42:11.538 She was, I think she'd been on since eight. 1622 01:42:11.678 --> 01:42:12.639 And I just caught the end. 1623 01:42:13.359 --> 01:42:14.680 That's an interesting story, isn't it? 1624 01:42:14.700 --> 01:42:18.162 You see, the researchers for Graham Nott would have said, no. 1625 01:42:21.396 --> 01:42:22.977 Or can you work on that a little bit? 1626 01:42:22.997 --> 01:42:24.858 A little bit of showbiz, a little buff for that one. 1627 01:42:24.878 --> 01:42:26.539 Can you take that to one of your writers? 1628 01:42:29.341 --> 01:42:30.162 Some people do that. 1629 01:42:30.242 --> 01:42:31.142 Some people have writers. 1630 01:42:32.043 --> 01:42:34.644 Or they'll take their material and say, this is what I'm doing on the show. 1631 01:42:34.664 --> 01:42:35.805 Can you give us a few lines? 1632 01:42:35.885 --> 01:42:36.306 Really? 1633 01:42:36.946 --> 01:42:38.407 I'm amazed you don't know this. 1634 01:42:38.607 --> 01:42:39.167 No, no. 1635 01:42:39.928 --> 01:42:40.408 Absolutely. 1636 01:42:40.608 --> 01:42:41.089 Hands up. 1637 01:42:41.169 --> 01:42:41.829 Like, no idea. 1638 01:42:41.989 --> 01:42:42.790 Behind the curtain. 1639 01:42:43.010 --> 01:42:43.550 Yeah. 1640 01:42:43.570 --> 01:42:45.772 So they'll have like, almost like joke writers, essentially. 1641 01:42:45.792 --> 01:42:47.793 Or like, just write someone who will... 1642 01:42:48.730 --> 01:42:51.252 You'll give it a little buff and be like, right, let's try this. 1643 01:42:51.533 --> 01:42:52.153 Couple of lines. 1644 01:42:52.574 --> 01:42:53.074 Bloody hell. 1645 01:42:53.334 --> 01:42:53.955 I had no idea. 1646 01:42:54.916 --> 01:42:55.136 Yeah. 1647 01:42:55.376 --> 01:42:55.556 No. 1648 01:42:56.797 --> 01:42:57.038 Yeah. 1649 01:42:57.959 --> 01:43:03.383 I mean, some people, some people are naturally, I mean, you take Mary Margolis anywhere. 1650 01:43:03.484 --> 01:43:04.124 Oh my God. 1651 01:43:04.304 --> 01:43:04.404 Yeah. 1652 01:43:04.424 --> 01:43:06.226 You know, and just, but it's just hilarious. 1653 01:43:07.667 --> 01:43:14.834 And some people are hilarious by, you know, when you're, when you're with them and you've got plenty of time, um, 1654 01:43:16.082 --> 01:43:19.643 But some people have to buff up their stories. 1655 01:43:19.663 --> 01:43:21.984 Some people like me have to buff up their stories. 1656 01:43:22.404 --> 01:43:26.446 And I've never used a writer, but I have buffed up my stories. 1657 01:43:27.806 --> 01:43:29.507 Because that's what they want. 1658 01:43:29.847 --> 01:43:30.607 Why shouldn't they? 1659 01:43:30.987 --> 01:43:34.948 Why should the audience have to endure one of my dreary tales? 1660 01:43:35.309 --> 01:43:42.371 Other than in podcast world, where we can be being looked at or listened to as you go

to sleep. 1661 01:43:44.616 --> 01:43:45.957 Are you going to sleep, listener? 1662 01:43:47.699 --> 01:43:50.581 Is this the last voice you're hearing before you doze off? 1663 01:43:53.403 --> 01:43:55.065 Do you listen to podcasts before you go to sleep? 1664 01:43:55.345 --> 01:43:56.406 I don't, but my wife does. 1665 01:43:56.666 --> 01:43:57.346 Oh, does she? 1666 01:43:57.667 --> 01:43:59.328 Also, go to podcast. 1667 01:43:59.628 --> 01:44:00.529 Well, she's very clever. 1668 01:44:01.830 --> 01:44:11.578 So she usually listens to historical podcasts, and she's deep in ancient Greek stuff at the moment. 1669 01:44:12.701 --> 01:44:30.049 kind of off the back of the odyssey is that oh no she's been she did a course at the open university in classics now like years ago when we were first got together so she's always been into all that stuff you know yeah i just listen to tales from on the buses sitcom tales 1670 01:44:31.330 --> 01:44:32.751 How We Made Bless This House. 1671 01:44:33.971 --> 01:44:34.531 Rising Damp. 1672 01:44:34.951 --> 01:44:36.972 How We Made Rising Damp. 1673 01:44:37.052 --> 01:44:37.792 I would listen to that. 1674 01:44:37.812 --> 01:44:38.553 That's a series. 1675 01:44:38.973 --> 01:44:39.753 I know, yeah, I know. 1676 01:44:39.773 --> 01:44:40.213 It's a series. 1677 01:44:40.273 --> 01:44:40.854 It's got to be a series. 1678 01:44:40.874 --> 01:44:41.814 It's not just a condition. 1679 01:44:43.655 --> 01:44:44.675 You know, I would listen to that. 1680 01:44:45.615 --> 01:44:52.758 Well, I think this conversation wouldn't be complete, I think, without at least mentioning Doctor Who again, because we talked about that a lot when you came to the class. 1681 01:44:52.778 --> 01:44:55.639 And obviously it was great to talk to you and do a bit of a dive into that. 1682 01:44:56.319 --> 01:45:02.982 And it's funny because ever since you came back on, which was about a year ago, a lot has happened in Doctor Who land, I guess. 1683 01:45:03.082 --> 01:45:04.163 A lot has... Has it? 1684 01:45:04.523 --> 01:45:07.864 Well, a lot has... Has it really? 1685 01:45:07.925 --> 01:45:08.285 Not really. 1686 01:45:08.545 --> 01:45:10.746 But a lot has sort of shifted. 1687 01:45:10.766 --> 01:45:15.408 I mean, obviously the stuff with the show now, the future of the show, it's kind of a little bit in question. 1688 01:45:16.068 --> 01:45:19.930 Everything with the tender and all of that business. 1689 01:45:20.310 --> 01:45:29.599 I mean, as someone who's obviously followed the show from the very beginning, going back to the early days, I mean, what are your thoughts on where the show is now and where it goes next? 1690 01:45:30.019 --> 01:45:34.203 People keep asking me to join tenders for Doctor Who. 1691 01:45:35.164 --> 01:45:39.848 I keep being asked if I would come and join this company and put together a 1692 01:45:41.598 --> 01:46:06.603 package uh i don't mean for me to be in it but to to to create uh a version of it and i i haven't joined any of those um because i know how hard the show is to make sure and also because i have other things i want to pursue and you can't make a show like doctor who without it taking over your life 1693 01:46:07.197 --> 01:46:07.697 It has to. 1694 01:46:08.738 --> 01:46:10.058 It's that kind of show. 1695 01:46:10.158 --> 01:46:17.080 You can't do it as a distant executive or a part-time role. 1696 01:46:18.421 --> 01:46:27.304 So I think I'm looking forward to the show coming back because I think it will be fascinating and exciting. 1697 01:46:27.604 --> 01:46:30.785 Because also I think whoever gets it, 1698 01:46:32.645 --> 01:46:38.526 will really want to do it and will be really driven and passionate about it. 1699 01:46:39.067 --> 01:46:42.187 I mean, what it's going to be, I don't know. 1700 01:46:43.267 --> 01:46:47.308 I mean, I was thinking about this because I knew you would bring this up. 1701 01:46:49.429 --> 01:46:49.829 Yeah. 1702 01:46:50.129 --> 01:46:51.189 Well, as everybody does. 1703 01:46:51.309 --> 01:46:52.250 Conceding to the, yeah. 1704 01:46:52.690 --> 01:46:53.570 But I mean, I... 1705 01:46:54.910 --> 01:47:01.076 Apart from the fact, you know, I have a life that I want to pursue. 1706 01:47:01.776 --> 01:47:06.921 One of the reasons I didn't get involved in any of the tenders was I don't know what it is people want from it. 1707 01:47:08.343 --> 01:47:12.046 Because my love for the show was the old show. 1708 01:47:13.988 --> 01:47:15.029 That's what I grew up with. 1709 01:47:16.230 --> 01:47:17.331 So that's not going to work. 1710 01:47:19.777 --> 01:47:23.159 So I can't come in and say, let's set it in the 60s. 1711 01:47:24.199 --> 01:47:27.380 Let's make it black and white with very wobbly sets. 1712 01:47:29.141 --> 01:47:34.382 Let's make it more cheaply or with less ambition. 1713 01:47:35.283 --> 01:47:38.384 I mean, Doctor Who's always had ambition. 1714 01:47:39.204 --> 01:47:41.045 It's just that sometimes the budgets haven't. 1715 01:47:42.425 --> 01:48:09.045 met that but the ambition has always been there in the show or do they want it like does a modern audience want it like do they want you know david and kylie and all that kind of stuff going on or chris or or or jody or or matt or truti or i don't know what version it is that they want but all of those things are not um 1716 01:48:11.761 --> 01:48:13.583 That show is not the show I fell in love with. 1717 01:48:14.745 --> 01:48:16.707 Although I love it and I still love seeing it. 1718 01:48:18.429 --> 01:48:24.716 And I enjoy it most when I sense a ripple from the old showing it. 1719 01:48:26.345 --> 01:48:29.709 as opposed to a big block of, oh, this is an old monster that we're bringing back. 1720 01:48:30.329 --> 01:48:43.001 I like when I sense that someone is familiar with the old show and has let some of its influence materialize in the show. 1721 01:48:43.522 --> 01:48:46.985 I don't know what it would, I don't know

how you, what do you keep? 1722 01:48:47.645 --> 01:48:48.146 What do you think? 1723 01:48:48.870 --> 01:48:49.531 It's tough, isn't it? 1724 01:48:49.571 --> 01:48:58.620 Because if you look at when Russell Tadavis brought it back, I think there was probably a lot of conversation about, yeah, what do you keep from the 25 years from before? 1725 01:48:58.720 --> 01:48:58.961 Yeah. 1726 01:48:59.201 --> 01:49:05.047 And his decision to basically keep it quite minimal in terms of like, we keep the Doctor's the last of the Time Lords. 1727 01:49:05.528 --> 01:49:06.749 You kind of ditch everything else. 1728 01:49:06.969 --> 01:49:07.069 Yeah. 1729 01:49:07.089 --> 01:49:07.249 Yeah. 1730 01:49:07.950 --> 01:49:35.465 that's it get get out you know um deal with it yeah uh when we had mark gaitis on recently he said that he said like the economy was like a uh a flat a fire a fire break and just like you only bring in the elements that you need yeah kind of strip it down like yeah i feel i wouldn't there's i think there's something in that stripping down and boiling it down to its essentials like this is what you need yeah to work i think you can only do that when there's been a bit of a stretch of time where people have kind of people's memory of it is a bit hazy maybe and you can remind them 1731 01:49:36.203 --> 01:49:37.643 Yeah, I think that's true. 1732 01:49:38.103 --> 01:49:43.824 I think it's actually quite a small show. 1733 01:49:45.545 --> 01:49:51.806 It's the doctor and the assistant slash assistants in the TARDIS. 1734 01:49:53.046 --> 01:49:57.607 So quite contained and kind of balming. 1735 01:49:58.967 --> 01:50:02.808 And then like the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, they open the door and they step out into this, 1736 01:50:04.558 --> 01:50:27.688 drama and those dramas change shape and they've got monsters in them and they're magical and strange and weird and sad and and uh but it needs that central core of that small group of people with the doctor at the center of it in that it's 1737 01:50:29.120 --> 01:50:35.846 magical wardrobe that flies around and takes you to these other places, would be my opinion. 1738 01:50:36.486 --> 01:50:42.311 But I don't know whether that place, I don't know what they, it's very interesting. 1739 01:50:44.573 --> 01:50:56.403 Because Doctor Who's gone on for so long, I find myself in quite a strange and pleasant place at the moment in that I meet so many young people 1740 01:50:58.072 --> 01:51:00.314 who were growing up when I was Doctor Who. 1741 01:51:01.855 --> 01:51:06.079 So that's not the same as when you've just finished being Doctor Who or you're in Doctor Who. 1742 01:51:08.941 --> 01:51:21.191 I meet now people who show me a photograph of often a little kid with Doctor Who, me, and they've met me when I was, and they were 10 or something like that. 1743 01:51:21.972 --> 01:51:26.055 But now they're in the world, you know, and they're working it, you know. 1744 01:51:27.248 --> 01:51:30.089 Deutsche Bank or Sky or something like that, you know? 1745 01:51:30.909 --> 01:51:33.210 And they're shy and they come, and I think this is wonderful. 1746 01:51:34.450 --> 01:51:38.592 You see these are little kids who loved it. 1747 01:51:39.312 --> 01:51:43.273 Because I thought when you stop being Doctor Who, you stop getting the love. 1748 01:51:44.914 --> 01:51:48.335 Because there's a sort of intense kind of love that comes. 1749 01:51:48.355 --> 01:51:53.697 But it's come back again, which is wonderful because also they are 1750 01:51:55.582 --> 01:51:56.142 I'm theirs. 1751 01:51:56.823 --> 01:52:02.766 Or not me, but, you know, my time in the show means something to them. 1752 01:52:04.607 --> 01:52:05.247 And that's great. 1753 01:52:06.028 --> 01:52:08.029 But I don't know what they... 1754 01:52:08.369 --> 01:52:09.430 I think it's going to be fine. 1755 01:52:10.490 --> 01:52:12.611 You know, I think it's... 1756 01:52:14.993 --> 01:52:15.173 It's... 1757 01:52:16.428 --> 01:52:17.289 It'll always work. 1758 01:52:17.829 --> 01:52:18.490 It needs love. 1759 01:52:19.311 --> 01:52:22.493 I sometimes think people in BBC don't really understand it. 1760 01:52:23.354 --> 01:52:25.676 I think that's sort of kind of a problem. 1761 01:52:27.498 --> 01:52:31.241 I think people don't really know what it's supposed to be. 1762 01:52:32.182 --> 01:52:33.223 So there's only a small... 1763 01:52:34.544 --> 01:52:36.386 There are only a small group of professionals... 1764 01:52:38.320 --> 01:52:42.783 That's why the show is made by Russell and, you know, and Stephen and all that. 1765 01:52:42.803 --> 01:52:43.503 Because they love it. 1766 01:52:43.523 --> 01:52:46.345 And they loved it from when they were little. 1767 01:52:46.745 --> 01:52:48.286 And when it was not on, they loved it. 1768 01:52:49.187 --> 01:52:50.247 So they knew what it was. 1769 01:52:50.407 --> 01:52:51.728 So they knew what to bring to it. 1770 01:52:52.389 --> 01:52:58.593 I don't think there were any executives at the BBC said, had a checklist of things that should be in it. 1771 01:52:59.873 --> 01:53:02.875 I think it had to be left to Russell to do that. 1772 01:53:03.335 --> 01:53:03.576 Yeah. 1773 01:53:04.216 --> 01:53:05.697 And there'll be someone like that now. 1774 01:53:06.835 --> 01:53:19.125 You know, I think, and I've said this before to you, I mean, I just always, I'm slightly concerned about branding and the scale of that and what that does to a piece of work. 1775 01:53:20.046 --> 01:53:20.266 Yeah. 1776 01:53:21.067 --> 01:53:22.988 But that it hasn't done Star Wars any harm. 1777 01:53:24.189 --> 01:53:28.933 Well, someone could argue that it's always has, but the whole sort of franchisation of that. 1778 01:53:30.614 --> 01:53:58.050 but yeah I agree I also think that because Doctor Who is so many things it's like every genre at once I know it's almost cliche to say it at this point but it really is and it's hard to pin down really

it's why I think it doesn't always translate like maybe to different countries overseas so what is it because it's so many different tones as well it's dark and it's grim and it's serious but it's also playful and full of life and joy it's a really hard one to pin down so it makes it so unique 1779 01:53:58.410 --> 01:53:58.590 Yeah. 1780 01:53:59.131 --> 01:54:00.594 There are no monster shows. 1781 01:54:03.097 --> 01:54:07.404 You know, and there used to be more monster shows and Doctor Who was part of that. 1782 01:54:08.025 --> 01:54:10.428 And I think kids love monsters. 1783 01:54:12.071 --> 01:54:12.572 I think they love 1784 01:54:14.621 --> 01:54:39.994 reptilian creatures and aliens and robots and the things that come out of nowhere that are going to destroy you with ray guns and stuff like that and are defeated and or frankenstein's monster or that i think kids love monsters they used to be lost you know lost in space and stuff like that there used to be you know even star trek these different shows with monsters in them they're hardly a stranger things yeah i guess it's a monster show but there are very few of them anymore 1785 01:54:41.477 --> 01:54:44.419 And I think that, I think we're working out our tender right now, right? 1786 01:54:44.619 --> 01:54:45.720 Yeah, this is it, isn't it? 1787 01:54:46.000 --> 01:54:47.361 Hey, you could be the new doctor. 1788 01:54:49.122 --> 01:54:49.782 Would you do that? 1789 01:54:49.962 --> 01:54:50.523 With this hair? 1790 01:54:51.183 --> 01:54:53.284 Yeah, with that hair for sure. 1791 01:54:53.384 --> 01:54:55.406 Would I have to keep the beard? 1792 01:54:55.906 --> 01:54:56.786 No, you take the beard off. 1793 01:54:56.966 --> 01:54:58.267 Has the doctor ever had a beard? 1794 01:54:58.287 --> 01:54:59.508 He never has had a beard, has he? 1795 01:54:59.528 --> 01:55:00.509 He shouldn't have a beard. 1796 01:55:01.249 --> 01:55:02.470 Oh, no, wait, Shooty had the tash. 1797 01:55:02.810 --> 01:55:03.490 Shooty had the tash. 1798 01:55:03.511 --> 01:55:04.051 That was great. 1799 01:55:05.011 --> 01:55:06.032 I love the tash on Shooty. 1800 01:55:06.612 --> 01:55:07.513 I don't think that's canon. 1801 01:55:12.158 --> 01:55:16.319 I don't think the doctor should ever have a beard. 1802 01:55:16.779 --> 01:55:17.380 Too much respect. 1803 01:55:17.400 --> 01:55:19.200 No, we've got to work tight, so you can be the doctor. 1804 01:55:19.220 --> 01:55:19.680 This is it. 1805 01:55:20.261 --> 01:55:21.261 And you can have... 1806 01:55:22.021 --> 01:55:23.262 The TARDIS remains the same. 1807 01:55:23.942 --> 01:55:25.902 But it looks like a jazz bar. 1808 01:55:25.962 --> 01:55:26.603 A jazz bar? 1809 01:55:26.623 --> 01:55:28.403 Well, we invent the inside, so it looks like a jazz bar. 1810 01:55:28.423 --> 01:55:28.623 No! 1811 01:55:28.643 --> 01:55:31.524 Are you talking about... Are you crazy? 1812 01:55:32.524 --> 01:55:33.305 It's suicide! 1813 01:55:35.925 --> 01:55:37.246 No, you

don't mess with the TARDIS. 1814 01:55:39.174 --> 01:55:41.056 I mean, like, we model it, we model it. 1815 01:55:41.096 --> 01:55:42.517 So, like, no, we keep it as the tarnest. 1816 01:55:42.537 --> 01:55:43.779 It's got the column, it's got everything. 1817 01:55:43.799 --> 01:55:46.001 But you know how, you know, you've got the choral theme of David. 1818 01:55:46.201 --> 01:55:48.103 I think we could make this work, right? 1819 01:55:48.123 --> 01:55:50.365 So there's a jukebox in the corner a lot of time. 1820 01:55:50.385 --> 01:55:51.406 We could make this work, maybe. 1821 01:55:51.626 --> 01:55:51.807 No? 1822 01:55:52.107 --> 01:55:52.287 No? 1823 01:55:52.367 --> 01:55:53.328 Am I back in it? 1824 01:55:53.348 --> 01:55:57.012 It's got to retain its 60s essence. 1825 01:55:57.292 --> 01:56:02.237 It's like if you go into somebody's very trendy house now and they've got a lava lamp. 1826 01:56:03.995 --> 01:56:10.899 In the corner, which I've been very successful, trendy people, and they've got a lava lamp, which, you know, I don't, you know what that is? 1827 01:56:10.959 --> 01:56:12.000 I used to have one when I was a kid. 1828 01:56:12.981 --> 01:56:13.901 It's got to be like that. 1829 01:56:14.281 --> 01:56:16.523 It's got to be slightly anachronistic. 1830 01:56:18.084 --> 01:56:19.184 60s, definitely. 1831 01:56:21.346 --> 01:56:26.649 It can be amped up, obviously, but its essence has to be a 60s thing. 1832 01:56:29.318 --> 01:56:39.731 the doctor has to be charismatic look at you you're there already you're being too kind sir you're right there I'm spent I was comely once 1833 01:56:47.344 --> 01:56:50.485 And then you could have a, what kind of a companion would you have? 1834 01:56:50.745 --> 01:56:56.788 Oh, well, I quite, well, I quite like the idea of, I like the idea of like a little, little team, like a little trio. 1835 01:56:56.848 --> 01:57:02.530 I quite like that about some of the older shows as well, when they have like Jamie and, you know, and it's like the three of them with Patrick Trout. 1836 01:57:02.550 --> 01:57:02.730 Yeah. 1837 01:57:03.010 --> 01:57:03.570 I quite like that. 1838 01:57:03.590 --> 01:57:04.531 You can't have more than two. 1839 01:57:05.451 --> 01:57:06.011 You need two. 1840 01:57:06.031 --> 01:57:07.692 And I think a boy and a girl's good. 1841 01:57:07.712 --> 01:57:12.914 Cause it's like Janet and John reading books, reading books that kids used to have. 1842 01:57:14.364 --> 01:57:15.324 There was always a boy and a girl. 1843 01:57:15.485 --> 01:57:15.665 Yeah. 1844 01:57:16.045 --> 01:57:16.905 You need that. 1845 01:57:17.205 --> 01:57:19.766 And you need the safety and warmth of the TARDIS. 1846 01:57:21.327 --> 01:57:21.687 Always. 1847 01:57:21.947 --> 01:57:22.227 Always. 1848 01:57:22.368 --> 01:57:22.928 And that noise. 1849 01:57:23.388 --> 01:57:23.928 Robot dog? 1850 01:57:24.689 --> 01:57:24.829 No. 1851 01:57:25.149 --> 01:57:25.289 No? 1852 01:57:26.109 --> 01:57:26.529 Tin dog? 1853 01:57:26.569 --> 01:57:27.330 No, no tin dog. 1854 01:57:27.350 --> 01:57:28.670 Forget it. 1855 01:57:29.951 --> 01:57:31.251 All of those things out the window. 1856 01:57:31.892 --> 01:57:32.312 Forget it. 1857 01:57:32.572 --> 01:57:34.853 One last quick question on Doctor Who before we wrap up. 1858 01:57:35.153 --> 01:57:40.075 Is it true that I heard, I can't remember which one of the doctors said this, whether it was, maybe it was Jodie or maybe it was Matt. 1859 01:57:40.095 --> 01:57:40.696 I can't, I'm not sure. 1860 01:57:40.716 --> 01:57:43.177 But is it true that there's a WhatsApp group with all the doctors in it? 1861 01:57:43.617 --> 01:57:43.777 No. 1862 01:57:43.797 --> 01:57:43.897 No. 1863 01:57:44.297 --> 01:57:44.918 That's not true. 1864 01:57:46.419 --> 01:57:48.081 Unless they have a WhatsApp group. 1865 01:57:48.581 --> 01:57:49.322 Perhaps they do. 1866 01:57:49.342 --> 01:57:50.463 That would make sense, wouldn't it? 1867 01:57:50.863 --> 01:57:54.407 There's a WhatsApp group of all the doctors except the one they don't like. 1868 01:57:55.788 --> 01:57:57.510 The one who's too boring and dreary. 1869 01:57:57.530 --> 01:58:05.438 The one who says dodgy things about the show. 1870 01:58:05.938 --> 01:58:07.540 Well, I guess they all have a WhatsApp group. 1871 01:58:08.220 --> 01:58:08.721 That's life. 1872 01:58:12.073 --> 01:58:13.253 Fair enough, fair enough. 1873 01:58:13.293 --> 01:58:16.414 I've got my own WhatsApp group. 1874 01:58:16.574 --> 01:58:18.234 It's all the thick of it, guys. 1875 01:58:18.314 --> 01:58:18.955 No, I don't. 1876 01:58:18.975 --> 01:58:20.555 I've had a disaster the other day. 1877 01:58:20.615 --> 01:58:21.415 Somebody sent me that. 1878 01:58:22.415 --> 01:58:23.656 Don't do this. 1879 01:58:24.676 --> 01:58:33.138 My daughter's, the link was for my daughter's in a ballet contest. 1880 01:58:33.678 --> 01:58:34.498 Could you sponsor her? 1881 01:58:34.978 --> 01:58:35.598 Yeah, of course. 1882 01:58:36.778 --> 01:58:38.639 And then it's a hack. 1883 01:58:39.059 --> 01:58:39.179 Oh. 1884 01:58:40.287 --> 01:58:51.077 went through my entire address book oh no uh yeah i can read all of your whatsapps uh and i had to contact absolutely everybody and say don't go near this 1885 01:58:51.604 --> 01:58:53.025 That's a nightmare when that happens. 1886 01:58:53.065 --> 01:58:54.046 It happens to all of us though. 1887 01:58:54.106 --> 01:59:03.934 Although of course, David and Jodie and the others would be safe. 1888 01:59:04.894 --> 01:59:06.355 I guess it's a kind of rapid question. 1889 01:59:06.436 --> 01:59:11.499 So in terms of what you've got coming out, you've got, you've got, uh, only murders season six coming out, right? 1890 01:59:11.580 --> 01:59:13.061 And, uh, honestly quite soon. 1891 01:59:13.601 --> 01:59:13.841 Yeah. 1892 01:59:14.061 --> 01:59:14.322 Yeah. 1893 01:59:14.442 --> 01:59:17.244 I've not got a very big part in that, but they're,

they're wonderful. 1894 01:59:17.924 --> 01:59:18.585 I've got, uh, 1895 01:59:21.126 --> 01:59:27.969 The Mask of Red Death is coming out, which we did with Mikey Madison in Budapest. 1896 01:59:28.649 --> 01:59:29.930 And again, not a huge part. 1897 01:59:29.950 --> 01:59:30.930 What a great job, though. 1898 01:59:30.950 --> 01:59:31.651 It's fantastic. 1899 01:59:32.131 --> 01:59:35.912 That's based on the old Edgar Allan Poe slash Vincent Price movie. 1900 01:59:36.112 --> 01:59:36.312 Yeah. 1901 01:59:37.433 --> 01:59:38.053 That's great. 1902 01:59:38.853 --> 01:59:42.795 And I'm just doing Netflix have bought the Roald Dahl estate. 1903 01:59:42.835 --> 01:59:45.036 So they're doing all of the Roald Dahl stuff. 1904 01:59:46.320 --> 01:59:47.542 And there's a kind of thing they're doing. 1905 01:59:47.802 --> 01:59:50.526 It's not Tales of the Unexpected, but it's a little bit like that. 1906 01:59:51.106 --> 01:59:53.650 So I'm doing an episode of that now. 1907 01:59:55.432 --> 01:59:59.558 And really, I'm just rehearsing with them because we've got, hey, we've got these gigs. 1908 02:00:00.139 --> 02:00:01.400 Oh, yeah, that's what I should be here to do. 1909 02:00:02.822 --> 02:00:03.843 to sell these gigs. 1910 02:00:04.203 --> 02:00:06.544 We're doing Sheffield on the 13th of December. 1911 02:00:06.684 --> 02:00:09.786 Then the 14th of December, we're doing Dingwalls in London. 1912 02:00:09.806 --> 02:00:10.747 Nice. 1913 02:00:10.807 --> 02:00:12.048 And then we're doing Bristol. 1914 02:00:13.188 --> 02:00:17.971 And then we're finishing in Glasgow later that week on the Queen Margaret Union on the 17th of December. 1915 02:00:18.131 --> 02:00:18.552 Amazing. 1916 02:00:19.052 --> 02:00:20.453 So, yeah, I'm just rehearsing. 1917 02:00:21.253 --> 02:00:24.395 now with the band and putting that together. 1918 02:00:24.415 --> 02:00:25.315 So I'm looking forward to that. 1919 02:00:25.576 --> 02:00:26.216 Fantastic. 1920 02:00:26.516 --> 02:00:31.078 And then something we've been asking our guests on Half the Picture a lot lately is, at the end of the show, is a recommendation. 1921 02:00:31.139 --> 02:00:35.881 So like what kind of books they've been reading that they've loved, what kind of films they've seen, they've liked albums, you know? 1922 02:00:35.901 --> 02:00:39.203 What have you been sort of consuming lately that's been firing you up and that you've loved? 1923 02:00:39.683 --> 02:00:43.885 Well, there's a film I've seen which I love, which is actually maybe a little bit out of date. 1924 02:00:44.446 --> 02:00:46.267 Maybe it comes from earlier of the year called Trained Dreams. 1925 02:00:46.307 --> 02:00:46.807 Trained Dreams. 1926 02:00:47.167 --> 02:00:47.487 Yes. 1927 02:00:47.708 --> 02:00:48.328 Have you seen that? 1928 02:00:48.549 --> 02:00:49.650 I haven't seen it. 1929 02:00:49.670 --> 02:00:50.771 You guys have seen it. 1930 02:00:51.111 --> 02:00:52.453 Isn't it great? 1931 02:00:53.894 --> 02:00:55.256 It's absolutely beautiful. 1932 02:00:56.076 --> 02:01:02.323 It's about a man I don't know who works on the railways in America in the 1933 02:01:03.985 --> 02:01:08.607 I guess the early 20th century and lives in a, this sounds very dull. 1934 02:01:08.647 --> 02:01:14.309 It's not dull at all because the railways, building the railways is full of danger. 1935 02:01:15.210 --> 02:01:20.312 People had, you know, sleepers following them and things blow up and all that kind of stuff. 1936 02:01:20.932 --> 02:01:23.493 And he just tries, it's just how he tries to eek his life out. 1937 02:01:24.718 --> 02:01:31.221 He spends most of the year living in a forest and then there's a season when they go and do the train work. 1938 02:01:32.322 --> 02:01:34.563 But it's quite dreamy and strange. 1939 02:01:35.204 --> 02:01:36.244 It's fantastic. 1940 02:01:36.264 --> 02:01:36.844 Train dreams. 1941 02:01:36.984 --> 02:01:37.465 Train dreams. 1942 02:01:37.485 --> 02:01:39.166 So that's the big one for this year. 1943 02:01:39.186 --> 02:01:39.886 That's a big one. 1944 02:01:40.686 --> 02:01:41.007 Nice. 1945 02:01:41.487 --> 02:01:42.027 Great stuff. 1946 02:01:42.127 --> 02:01:44.108 Well, it's been such a pleasure, Peter. 1947 02:01:44.128 --> 02:01:46.169 Thank you so much for coming back on the pod. 1948 02:01:46.189 --> 02:01:48.851 It really is just a privilege and a pleasure just to sit and chat to you. 1949 02:01:49.231 --> 02:01:50.292 Thank you for asking me. 1950 02:01:50.412 --> 02:01:51.212 No worries. 1951 02:01:51.252 --> 02:01:51.672 Good fun. 1952 02:01:53.557 --> 02:01:54.021 Thanks again. 1953 02:01:54.242 --> 02:01:54.706 Thank you.