Full Transcript for Laurie Ulster from Trekmovie.com

thing to do is to talk it out with Trekys who are smarter than us. Tonight's guest is here to help us take stock of where we are in the life of the franchise. We know her as the co host of Trek Movie's All Access Star Trek Podcast, currently the gold standard in Star Trek podcasting. not really. but yes, they're amazing. She's a New York-based writer, copy editor with a background in TV product production and website director. She was the supervising producer on After Trek, CBS All Access's original Star Trek Discovery After Show. She hosted panels and all Star Trek events, conventions, including a little one that we were at in Long Island called Trek Long Island. we'll be there again next year. she has interviewed the legit who's who of Star Trek celebrities. Her writing credits are broad and vast, but there's one that particularly worries us. She literally wrote the book on the Gilmore girls, hence the earlier joke. we can already see Lenita salivating at the possibility of hijacking this whole episode and turning it into a Gilmore girls pod, but I don't think we're gonna let that happen. our guest is the most infectious laugh in all of Star Trek podcasting. If we fail to hear it in the next hour, we officially will just quit and hang it up. Please welcome to the pod, Lori Ulster. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Wow, that is some intro. Like Damizzon: Thank you so much. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: can I send that to my family? Lanita (she/her): Absolutely. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Who have been making fun of me for so many years and just be like, Come on, here it is Lanita (she/her): Ha ha ha Mike Jones (he/him): They like me Lanita (she/her): Welcome. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Ha ha Damizzon: We're so excited you're here. Mike Jones (he/him): Yes. Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I'm excited to be here. Also we could just talk Gilmore girls and that would also be fine. Lanita (she/her): Yes, unfortunately I don't have a cup of coffee. It's a little too late in the day. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Lanita (she/her): but I wish that I did. I mean I mean there's the cross over there, Mike Jones, okay? Coffee, black, Gilmore Girls. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): Coffee, right? Coffee black. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: They're writer crossovers. Gilmore Girls to Star Trek, yep. Yep. At least Damizzon: with Star Trek? fascinating. I did not know that. Lanita (she/her): Really? Mike Jones (he/him): really? That's very cool. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: two and possibly more. Plus they make fun of Star Trek on Gilmore Girls. Lanita (she/her): Yep. Mike Jones (he/him): Okay. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: So and of course, you know, actors show up as they do. Mike Jones (he/him): Of course, of course. I Damizzon: Yes. Yes. Mike Jones (he/him): don't know how many episodes of TNG I'm watching and I'm like, I think that person or the other way, I'm watching Golden Girls, and I'm like, Damizzon: yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): I think that guy was on an episode of TNG. Lanita (she/her): Ha ha ha Mike Jones (he/him): And of course I have to look it up and they always are. Damizzon: Yes, I was very I think Lanita (she/her): See the knowledge. Damizzon: actually Lenita can share this story too. We were w very in a early in our thir theater career, we worked with the first one of the f the first non wharf Klingon to appear on T and G. Who was not Vaughn Armstrong, Mike Jones (he/him): Yes. Damizzon: who was the other guy. and I was very Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Damizzon: starstruck until I got to know him. Y yeah, that went away really quick, but yeah. Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Damizzon: So Lori, we always we always kind of start. no, we have to do tarot. We have see, I was gonna jump right in. That was always. All right. I have the deck. So our friend Lanita (she/her): Yes. See? No, and I wasn't and I wasn't gonna let that happen. Yes, who's who's doing it? Damazon? Okay. Mike Jones (he/him): Yes, we always start with the Trek Deck. He has the cards. Damizzon: Alex has made this this tarot deck that is a tribute to Bourbonera Star Trek. Yes. Mike Jones (he/him): Which you can find at Deocil Designs. Damizzon: And Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Mm. Damizzon: if you would I'm just gonna move my finger sort of slowly across here. Lanita (she/her): Tell her when you're starting because you always say it and then you okay. Damizzon: And you I'm gonna start now and you can just tell me when to stop. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: right. All right, stop. Damizzon: All right. Mike Jones (he/him): Alright, what do we got? Damizzon: Okay, so this is the Lanita (she/her): Ooh, what do we got? Damizzon: eight of replicators. I forget this guy's name. He's he is the the beta zoid on Voyager, right? And he is Sudor, yeah, it's up Sudor. there Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Is it Souter? Lon Suder? Played by Brad Durif, yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Yes. Lanita (she/her): Si, porque eso. Damizzon: we go. my Mike Jones (he/him): Huh. Damizzon: gosh. All right. it's the eight of replicators, Lanita (she/her): wow. Damizzon: Mike Jones. Lanita (she/her): And Mike Jones, remind what replicators are in for the standard deck. Mike Jones (he/him): Sure. So replicators are it's the suit of cups. So it's the eight of cups. and Lon Suter was an outsider to his people, a beta Z who is dispassionate and disconnected from his emotions. It is fitting that he is here at the eight. This card indicates restlessness, discontentment, and abandonment. which and murder, right? It's a very, it's a Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Don't forget murder. That's what he did. Murder. Damizzon: Roderick. Lanita (she/her): Murder. Mike Jones (he/him): very dark card. Wow. Lanita (she/her): Ooh, doesn't that work for today's conversation? See what I'm saying? Mike Jones (he/him): So well, you know, like I will say in the traditional Damizzon: Legacy. Mike Jones (he/him): in the traditional

image, it is eight cups stacked up and a guy walking away from them as if he's done with these and he's moving on. And that might be Alex Kurtzman right now. so that's my interpretation. Lanita (she/her): Hmm. See what I'm saying? The cards always tell the truth. It is not failed. It's 100% accurate. No matter what card we pull, it always speaks to what we're gonna talk about. Damizzon: Yes. Lanita (she/her): I'm standing by it, Mike Jones. I'm standing by it. Damizzon: And Mike Jones (he/him): You don't have to sell me. Damizzon: and so yeah, so this is, you know, part w when we invited Lori on, we talked about, you know, a the a a sort of a big picture topic. and we're gonna we're gonna be talking about sort of what feels like the end of the Kurtzman era of Star Trek and sort of where it has left us and what the legacy of that era is as it kind of feels like it's drawing to a close. but we y usually like to start with a new guest at the beginning. And we've got to ask you your fan origin story. How did you discover Star Trek? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I discovered the original series when I was just a wee kid because my mom was watching it. And although she used to say she'd be like, I watched it when I was pregnant with you, which is not actually possible because I was born six months before it premiered. And then she she would say, right, that was kidney failure. I'm like, Thanks, mom. but I know But she got was watching it and then I became obsessed and my siblings and I would watch it and my little brother and I would play Star Trek sometimes. But I was like, When I'm obsessed, I am like the biggest pain in the ass you could possibly imagine. So I was, you know, this was back in the day record I would l leaf through TV guide, like the physical pages, Lanita (she/her): Yeah, ma'am. Mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: and I'd be noticing which episodes were airing, which ones I'd seen, which ones I hadn't. And I would once we got like a Betamax, I sound like I'm a hundred and fifty, we Damizzon: Mm. Lanita (she/her): Welcome. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: would Mike Jones (he/him): No. Damizzon: No, we know beta. We know beta. Lanita (she/her): That's okay. We're with you. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: We would record it, you know, I'd be recording it and whatever. And so, and then from then on, it was just I've s I've seen every Star Trek movie the day it came out in theaters, if Damizzon: Wow. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: not before at a premiere. So that's kind of like starting with the first one. I like I was in middle school and my mom let me take off school and go with some her cousins of hers to go see it. so and then I've watched every single Star Trek sense, obviously. Obviously. Damizzon: Obviously. And did you ever have Lanita (she/her): Hm. Damizzon: like any sort of like dip in fandom over the like would do do you feel like you were always like a you know, fully on board your entire fan life? Laurie Ulster -

TrekMovie: No, like I had to I feel like I was for lack of a better term, a closeted Star Trek fan for a long Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: time. Where I my family knew Mike Jones (he/him): We can relate. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: and close friends knew, but it was a super uncool thing to be. And so it wasn't something that like there are people that I now will talk to that I worked with years ago, and we both find out that we were Star Trek fans and never talked about it. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: So that happens. But it was I mean, Trek movie was a spent 10 years at Trek Movie and that Damizzon: Wow. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: completely changed my entire not just my Star Trek life, but my life truly. And I have all these amazing friends, super close friends, a giant community, amazing opportunities. And for me, the best part is when I get to talk to people who make Star Trek, whether they're actors, writers, directors, costume designers, prop makers, like whatever Damizzon: Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: it is, To actually be able to have those conversations is the biggest thrill and joy. And I always say to them, I'm like, I whatever I've you've given me so much. If I can give something back, just let me know. Damizzon: I love that 'cause I feel like we're we're literally we're we're to Lanita (she/her): Literally how we feel. Damizzon: the point now where we're starting to get like we've had head of hair, head of prosthetics, and the like that kind of stuff is like what we like salivate Lanita (she/her): We'd love it. Damizzon: over to hear because it's like you don't realize like how many people are really like very much responsible for the characters that we see on screen and how they are how those stories are told Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Damizzon: and it's Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Damizzon: a joy. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And the processes change so much, like from era to era to era. So it's really interesting Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: to talk to people like, especially 'cause obviously there aren't lot of people around from the original series, and that was a whole other like a completely different era of TV and a totally different I mean, each one really reflects the industry in such an interesting Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: way. And then just between the Berman era and the Kurtzman era and how they film and how they work with actors and how they come up with all that with their stories and and how they view what it is they're doing. It's all it's all different. And I love I I'm also one of the producers of Trek Talks, which is our big yearly Damizzon: Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: fundraiser for the Hollywood Food Coalition. And my favorite kind of panel to brainstorm there is bringing people together from two different eras so they can talk to each Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: other and Mike Jones (he/him): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: compare notes and talk about it because they are all interested in each other. Mike Jones (he/him): Of course. Damizzon: Well it's it's interesting I n already getting off track, but Mike and I were at a panel that you led at Treklong Island, I think, last summer that had some w I mean, objectively kind of obscure guest actors that really you turned into a panel about being an actress in Hollywood in the nineties and like what that life was like. So that was like a really it was very it unexpectedly interesting, I thought. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I tried. I wasn't sure 'cause they they didn't all seem to wanna roll with it. Damizzon: really? Mike Jones (he/him): It didn't come across that way. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Like I felt like on stage that they weren't quite rolling with it. Some were and some weren't. So Damizzon: Interesting. But Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: it just I mean, yeah. So it just I did what I could to try and extract. It's just a s I Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: mean, ever since I read Nana's book, this has been a big topic that's in my head. I mean, long before I read Nana's book, it was a big topic in my head. And then with Nana's book I got to kind of bring it into my Star Trek world. Damizzon: before we get too far, can you just give us the the crash course on Trek Movie? 'Cause I know that like there's so many Star Trek websites out there and like like for instance as a New Yorker, I know the difference between the times and the posts, but I don't know that like that Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Right. Damizzon: everybody who's listening may have that understanding. Lanita (she/her): Ha ha ha. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: All right. So Trek Movie is it's the biggest unofficial Star Trek site on the web. It is original. We do cover other reporters, but it's a lot of original reporting. We don't do rumors, we do news. We Tony, Anthony Pascal, who founded the site, he always thought of it as like the New York Times of, and this is sort of the old New York Times. It maybe not, but it is now. The Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha ha. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: old the New York Times Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: of Star Trek reporting. So he wanted to be. He's he f started it when the first JJ movie was in production. And he had Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Lanita (she/her): Hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: friends there. He had some inside access. And so he started covering it. Like, what if people covered Star Trek like the way they cover entertain it's entertainment journalism, just very specific. And so we Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: do, we always have news. Tony himself does a lot of the business analysis, the paramount merger stuff. we do lots of interviews. Episode reviews. Our podcast is also episode reviews and interviews. There's another podcast called The Shuttle Pod, which is really fun and has a wider

variety of topics. but we try and now we have a games reporter, comics reporter. So we're trying to have people on different beats, and we all just jump in as needed to do everything that we can, and a great, amazing variety of people with different backgrounds working on the site and contributing. Damizzon: Yeah, how like what's Mike Jones (he/him): Yes. Damizzon: this sort of like staff complement in terms of like how big is the website? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I mean it's look, it's t it's Tony's baby, right? Like the it's really Tony's baby. And I would say there are anywhere for at any given day. Sometimes there are like four of us in there, sometimes there's just two of us, sometimes there's ten of us. It kind of depends on what's going on. Like I said, an all hands on like when it used to be Star Trek Day or, you know, those big virtual cons during COVID, it was like Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: all hands on deck and everybody's busy firing stuff off. And other times it feels like very quiet. So it just depends. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. I remember back in two thousand eight when or two thousand seven probably, w when the JJ first JJ movie was in production, finding Trek Movie, and then later seeing like a behind the scenes clip of the the creatives on that movie reading the comments on Trek Movie, and I like, That's a website I've been to. Those Damizzon: Ha ha ha ha. Mike Jones (he/him): comment threads were like, you know, like old school, like, you know, Usenet. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah, I I mean, these days there it's a it's you have to sti put on some armor before you head into the comments. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah, yeah, it's changed. Lanita (she/her): No, no, no armor. Let the cause the the ones you read that are from people you just know, you're stupid and you are not happy in your life. And that's it. And then you move on. You're not happy in your life. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah, the I think a lot of it is you're not happy in your life. And s but be with ever since like discovery, but definitely especially Academy, we've had Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: to ban or at least screen certain words and words that aren't necessarily bad words, but people are using them in really bad ways. And we don't Lanita (she/her): But they're using them in place of the bad words. Mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: we don't tolerate racism and homophobia or just generally being shitty. So it can be tough. Out there. Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Damizzon: so on to really what we what we were wanting to talk about. you know as we're s as we're approaching what feels like this this sort of turning of the page, we've got, you know, one season of Academy left to air and we know it's the last and we've got our six episodes of Strange New Worlds and so it seems like a as good a time as any to look back on it's almost coming up on ten years since we saw, you know, since Burnham and Giorgio trace that Delta across the sand. Lanita (she/her): Ha ha ha. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Damizzon: so I I I guess the question is, you know, where do you feel like we are looking back on this era? Like what are some of the major things that this Era brought us. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I mean, I it's it's a mix. It's a mix Damizzon: Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: of good and bad, right? I mean, I think the greatest thing it brought us was a huge diversity of character. Like we have different kinds of aliens, different kinds of men, different kinds of women, different kinds of people who don't fit into those categories. Like Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: we have I think and they've brought in fantastic talent. So I think that's probably like Mike Jones (he/him): Absolutely. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: the biggest and and they've taken it, they've tried new things. I mean, whatever you may not like all of the shows. Some people don't like any Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: of them, and they can't shut up about it, which is interesting. But you don't have to like all the shows. But they brought us, Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha ha. Lanita (she/her): Ha ha ha Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: if you think about it, the Berman era was like one long show. Each show had a different flavor, but they Damizzon: Yes. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: were all kind of flavors of the same thing. And we loved that. I mean, I love it. And Lanita (she/her): Mm. Yes. Mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: so to actually have Star Trek dramas and Star Trek animated comedies and Star Trek animated for kids and sort of more wacky Star Trek and more serious Star Trek and more nostalgic Star Trek and more fresh Star Trek. Like that has been great. Just the variety, because if you don't like one thing, there is another thing. Damizzon: Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And I sort of the the saddest part of Starfleet Academy ending is that I feel like it it took all the learnings from everything Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: that they did and really turned it into something and took a lot of the flaws out. previous things and got it right with Starfleet Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Academy, and that show didn't get a chance. Lanita (she/her): Nope. Mike Jones (he/him): It Lanita (she/her): yeah, I but it I don't I g okay, I understand money merging, blah blah blah blah blah. But I just no because because I feel like it's a cop out sometimes, right? Like if you're if you're willing to invest in new IP, like new as in a new thought of of IP that already exists. You have to give it at minimum three seasons. Like at minimum. Because there's no way to introduce something new and then have people who were always going to watch it watch it, convince people who are

never going to watch it to watch it. And have the people who are like, maybe I'll check it out, watch it and then want more. Without a second and a third season. And if your numbers are not what you expected, if your numbers are trash after that sort of second season and you've already like done your third, okay, great, it's not getting renewed for a fourth. But just to give it one season, tape the second, and then be like, What do we do it for? It just it's like a it's like a kick in it's a kick in the nuts for not just the people working on it, but the fandom who's watching it who truly got invested. Because I know that there are people who were like, I'm not watching this, cadet school, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But then through the Great Brine, through the the Zeitgeist, it's like, a couple of little articles or whatnots like well maybe let me check it out i guess it's not what i thought it was this would have been great like cadet school Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Lanita (she/her): was the next thing like i was in and now i got what eight episodes and then ten woo Damizzon: Ten. Ten ten and there's ten more. Mike Jones (he/him): Ten. Well, especially with these ten Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Ten. Mike Jones (he/him): show, ten episode seasons, like you you it's hard in ten episodes to grab a new audience. And especially I think in the streaming era, because nowadays when a new show comes out that you hear is good, you're already Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): binge binging, you know, like you have like three show you put it in the queue. Like I'm not gonna Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): get to that show till next year, but I know it's there, you know? and Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): the and well by then it's canceled. Lanita (she/her): I mean I d I do enjoy the Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I mean that's that's a T V problem, right? Like that's a whole T V industry problem. Damizzon: Yeah. Sure. Mike Jones (he/him): Sure. Lanita (she/her): I do like the rollout though of like the hey, give me three episodes in the first drop. And then every week you get an episode. I feel like it would help versus the putting all eight eight episodes on because then someone watches it in a weekend, you know, diehards are like, Well, that's my day. Eight hours gone. And then there's no more, there's no more engagement. You drop two to three episodes on the first. opening and then each week a new one comes out and there you go in my opinion but who am I? I'm just a gal in New Jersey talking on a podcast. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Well, I mean a lot of shows use that strategy. So it's you know, that's like I think that's how I got hooked on the handmaid's tale. Because they put three Mike Jones (he/him): yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: up. I had nightmares all night, it was terrible. And then I was hooked. Yeah, yeah. And then I think I watched the testaments like in two days. Lanita (she/her): Yes. Yes. And you were like, I'm in. You were sad. Like you need. I I haven't gone there yet. I I Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Lanita (she/her): had to I've I've had to sit. Ooh, the handmaid cell would it hurt me so s I know. I Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: You are in for a treat, watch the testaments. Lanita (she/her): am. It's in my queue. I just have to have to get myself together. I'm so I was so invested in the handmaid cell. So I was like so invested. I was like, I don't know if I can do this again. But I will. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I actually did get to work on a handmaid's tale, not a full after show, but it was called One Burning Question and we did interviews Lanita (she/her): Ooh. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: with cast members and it was during COVID so I didn't get to go to the shoot. I was sitting in my little computer typing Lanita (she/her): kid Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: and watching everybody. So but they we they had all of them on and I got to write a bunch of questions for them and all Damizzon: well. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: that stuff. So that was fun. Damizzon: But I think it's true, Lori, what you said that it is a T V problem that shows aren't Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Damizzon: really getting I mean, Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Damizzon: is like is it a third season where they fall off? Or they some a lot of the a lot of shows that you know that we've gotten hooked on fell off after the first season, you know. Like like we've seen b for Colby and watch Boots. Boots, we watch boots on we we watch boot well this is these are our these Lanita (she/her): What shows? Which shows? Name them. Name the names. What the hell is boots? Mike Jones (he/him): Name names. yeah. Damizzon: are our little media niches that we fall into, right? We don't know each other's Mike Jones (he/him): Right. Damizzon: It's the Gay Marine Show. It's about it's Mike Jones (he/him): Right. Damizzon: about it Lanita (she/her): On what? Damizzon: Netflix. Mm-hmm. Lanita (she/her): Do you know about this, Lori? Have you ever heard of it? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I've never heard of this. Lanita (she/her): Okay, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't. Damizzon: This is th this is th these this is how we all this these are our little media bubbles. Mike Jones (he/him): Again. Damizzon: Like I'm sure Mike has heard this. No, it's a fictional show. It's Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Is it like a documentary show or a fictional sh scripted? Mike Jones (he/him): Right. Damizzon: it's based on a a real guy's autobiography of basically and it's set in the eighties and instead of in instead Lanita (she/her): Don't ask, don't tell. Damizzon: of coming out, he joins the Marines because his he's he's in love with his Lanita (she/her): Hmm. Damizzon: best friend who's straight, who's joining the Marines 'cause he wants to, and he ends up in the Marines and weirdly loves it. I mean he like is a the worst candidate ever and he gets through ba and by the time he gets through

basic training he's like, this actually like is for me. But it is this story of a closeted gay Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Wow. Damizzon: guy and his sort of misfit mm, I guess we would say pluto b outfit, whatever it is. Platoon, thank you, military words. but you know, it's a it's a good show Lanita (she/her): Platoon outfit and company. Hello, military wife, former military wife. Mike Jones (he/him): Military wife. Damizzon: and it was, you know, but it was you know, it had a lot of it it showed up on the conservative radar a lot because it was a show about gay men aimed at you know, at Satan Marines. And it had a l had a lot of haters and I don't know who I mean in my sort of like gay New York bubble, like people are watching it Mike Jones (he/him): Right. Damizzon: and you know, ca shocked that it goes away, you know, but that's how it goes. Never got a second season. Yeah. I'm not saying you should watch it, but you should look it up. Mike Jones (he/him): think it's hard to remember Damizzon: Boots. Yeah. Lanita (she/her): Going to watch it. Hello. I just Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha. Lanita (she/her): need to know about stuff and I'm gonna put it in. Damizzon: Yeah. Yeah. Lanita (she/her): Plug her in. Mike Jones (he/him): I think it's hard to to to step outside of our bubble, speaking of that as Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): Star Trek fans, that like that it it's for example, if someone says to me like you know, someone at work sees my tattoo, I have a Star Trek tattoo, and they're like, you like Star Trek? And I was like I'm like, Yeah, do you you know, do you watch it? They're like, yeah, I like I like the the old stuff and I'm like, Okay. And they're talking about JJ Abrams. You know Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: man Mike Jones (he/him): And it's just like, I'm so old. But you know, Lanita (she/her): Ha ha ha. Mike Jones (he/him): but I think that part of the problem that I had with the Kurtzman era in general, which is which is, you know, it I love it, don't get me wrong. But when Discovery came out, I didn't want a prequel. I didn't I wanted the franchise to move forward rather than look back. But I think that the general public knows Spock and Kirk Do you think that the studios are like in would only invest in Star Trek if they're like, well, we polled and everyone knows who Spock Lanita (she/her): Mm. Mike Jones (he/him): is. So like this episode this show has to like have a Spock connection. Right. Thank you. Damizzon: Really, do we need legacy character known legacy characters is what you're saying. Yeah. Lanita (she/her): There you go. Good job, Damazon. Make that question work. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Right. I mean, so before I answer that, I just want to tell you guys I was at Comic Con, New York Comic Con this weekend, and when I was in line to see the lovely Karim DNA again, 'cause I love him, so why not? I met a 20 year old Star Trek fan who has only seen the Kurtz Monera shows Damizzon: Mm. Lanita (she/her):

Mm. Mike Jones (he/him): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: and loves them, including her favorite Lower Decks. And I was like You love Lower Decks, but you've never seen 90s Trek. She's like, I've never seen it. She doesn't know it. And she loves it. She's gonna watch now, she said. And she got into it because she was watching her parents were watching Picard. And she got Damizzon: yeah. Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: interested. And then she ended up watching the whole era, which is fascinating Lanita (she/her): Wow. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: to me because Damizzon: Really. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: that's the fan I really want. Like, I'm so interested in someone who isn't just Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: like me who grew up with it and old and whatever. So there are people out there who were pulled Mike Jones (he/him): How exciting for them? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: in by this era. I mean at least one, but I I think more than Damizzon: Yeah. Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha ha. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: one. Damizzon: Well, it's funny, aren't you kind of jealous when you hear that where you're like, okay, so you haven't you you have this wealth of stuff to explore and then you can go back Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Right. Damizzon: and watch lower decks and have it truly make sense to you and win a way that you didn't even realize. Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: It she can come back and watch it again. Mike Jones (he/him): Yes. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: So, but what was the main the question was about legacy. So do we need it? It's interesting because, you know, the t you know, there's this movie that's in Damizzon: Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: development. It hasn't been greenlit, but it's in development. And the guys writing it are good, talented. They did the Dungeons and Dragons movie with Chris Pine, which was good, Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: and Game Night and some other things, and Mayday, which I haven't seen yet. they don't plan to include any legacy characters. Lanita (she/her): Mm. Mike Jones (he/him): interesting. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: So, and they are setting it they keep saying like slightly in the future, and it's hard to know what their knowledge of Trek timelines are. So well, I'm sort Damizzon: Yeah, yeah. Lanita (she/her): Yeah, what is the future? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: of I think we can probably interpret that to say like the post next gen movie era, perhaps. Like Damizzon: Yeah. Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: just post that. and I think as long as we have look, the important things of Star Trek, you do need great characters. You don't necessarily need the same characters. Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: You do need some of the trappings. You need a a ship or a station, you need a phaser, you need a tricord, you

need some, you need some of those Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): Absolutely. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: recog uniforms, Starfleet, you need some recognizable things, and you need the the optimism and the hope. Right? Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And those are like the basic pieces. And it's we've been asking people this in our interviews. I asked a bunch of people on the red carpet, like, what would you if you were sitting down with the guys with people are are put in charge of the Star Trek franchise. What would you say to them are the most important elements to include? And everyone says characters. Damizzon: Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Every single person. And if you think about it, like we're talking Spock Kirk. I think everybody I think Picard is pretty much in the mainstream zeitgeist for sure. And and Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: if not Janeway, Kate Mulgrew as a captain, even if people don't know the name, I would say. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Lanita (she/her): Correct. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: So, but I so I maybe you don't need those things. And I think. You know, Discovery tried to escape them, which was smart when they jumped into the third season. They were like, okay, we Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: gotta get out of this. And then I think Strange New Worlds made a a bad choice by sinking into that nostalgia instead of creating their instead of saying, Wow, TOS was a great model of how to do a really fun and interesting show with lots of variety. So let's do that. They said, let's get Trelaine, let's get Core. Let's and I'm like, Damizzon: Mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: no, you don't y you should make your own new not Trillane person. Some other entity. So Mike Jones (he/him): Right. Well even the main characters, you know, li like Nurse Chapel and you know, sometimes it's hard to the the nerd brain, it's hard to connect Jess Bush's nurse chapel is Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: you can't. Mike Jones (he/him): going to evolve into Majel Barrett's nurse chapel? Like that does not make any sense. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: No. I I look at Strange Lanita (she/her): Well, that doesn't make sense for you all who remember what they were. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: New Worlds as yes. Lanita (she/her): I'm looking I don't I don't have that in my brain. Adult Star Trek fan. So it's like, yeah, I watched it. Yep, she was great. Damizzon: You watched it, you know it. Lanita (she/her): Yeah, no, no, no, not the way you all do. Like Mike Jones being like, I don't see how that's gonna connect to that. I'm like, it just does. I it's a prequel. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Well see, so that's the thing, like to me it doesn't, and so I have to look at it as it's an alternate timeline Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: because it literally there Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: are too many things that they would never have happened the way that they did. And and I also think Mike Jones (he/him): Thank you. Lanita (she/her): I can't wait to talk about that. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: like, why are you spoiling Kirk discovering something by doing this t like so you have to look at Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: it a different way and then once once I'm on that path, well like Kirk meets the Gorn. everybody knew the Gorn and they had a big war with them. What? Like a bunch of things like that. Mike Jones (he/him): Right, what? Damizzon: Makes no sense. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And Lanita (she/her): Okay, okay, okay, listen I'm with you, okay. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Right. So there's a lot of there are a lot of things like that. So once you once I took myself into that alternate timeline, one, my sense of irritation just lifted, like wafted away. So that w it comes back when a new episode Lanita (she/her): It it evaporated. Damizzon: Mm. Mike Jones (he/him): Amazing. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: comes out. I'm like, what the f So, but it's okay. Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha ha. Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Damizzon: You can curse here by the way. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: But okay, good. but you know, so that's I I sometimes they just get too excited about like, I can put this thing in that sh you know, Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: and it's it kind of wrecks it because you're like, they shouldn't know that thing, or they shouldn't know those people, or they shouldn't have those relationships yet. But I mean, once you're gonna do Chapel, you can't make her like Chapel was in the original Mike Jones (he/him): No. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: series. You just can't. And at first I thought they were in the very, very beginning, I was super interested in. Her love for Spock because I thought they were trying to at modernize that Damizzon: Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: relationship, Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: but also give her some power. But and then it just turned into this whole thing that's like, well, it doesn't make s like the soup scene in a muktime makes no sense if they've already like had a relationship, had sex, broken up, blah, blah, blah. You know, it's it just doesn't make any sense. None of it makes any sense. Lanita (she/her): Gonna have to go back. I see. Now I gotta dip back in. I Damizzon: Makes sense. Mike Jones (he/him): Doesn't make any sense. Damizzon: There's it. Lanita (she/her): gotta dip back in because I was just in. I'm just Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And Lanita (she/her): I'm I'm a I'm a I'm I'm a dummy who's just like prequel. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: No, but you'd see you're not a dummy and you should take each sh each show for itself, right? So Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Laurie Ulster -

TrekMovie: you're if you can watch Strange New Worlds and just see it as fresh and new and none of the other stuff matters, you're gonna enjoy it a whole lot more. And isn't that good? Lanita (she/her): It doesn't matter. It's just that Mike Jones (he/him): Absolutely. Lanita (she/her): I don't think that it has stuck in my brain the way it has for this is where I like separate myself lifelong trekkies because Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yes. Lanita (she/her): you have It when you I believe that when you watch TV in like that younger formative, it sticks in your brain in a different way than me Mike Jones (he/him): It does. Lanita (she/her): at 21, 22, having possibly done some illicit substances and lived life that it that it's in there, but it's not in there in that way. You know, like that's why for me the graze is in there, because it's like, that started in. I that's why the the X Files is in there because it was high school, you know, but Trek it was like later on. So when I'm looking at you like you say the relationship between Chapel and Swap, I'm like, that's cute. But you're like, no, because an episode Damizzon: Ha ha ha. Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha. Lanita (she/her): and not that you're I'm making you like an angry keyboard warrior, which you're not, but like, you know, like you're like you're like, well, this Damizzon: Ha ha ha. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah, I'm not I'm like, it's all it's fine. Mike Jones (he/him): Zweifel. Lanita (she/her): this doesn't really seem to resonate because in this Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Lanita (she/her): episode. So I'm making you know a lighter keyboard warrior. But no, you know what I mean? Like so and and I think that we have these discussions with Strange New World where it's like, how are they getting him to the chair? Like at the end of the day, it's like if this is the prequel, we talked about how do we get him to the chair? Because he has to be melted in the chair. There's no world in which that doesn't happen because that is canon. And so I understand. Long story short, I understand. And now I'm gonna go back and watch. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Well, cause also if you watch The Menagerie from the original series, right? But you're like, how come Lanita (she/her): Which I love. My f one of my my favorite episodes. Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Spock's the only one who gives a shit about Pike? Didn't all those other people get like super close to him? And also in Strange New Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: World, Spock and Pike don't seem that close. So that's where you're like, okay, but again, alternate thing. I like this Pike. Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I think I there have been seasons where he's been a very weak captain. Lanita (she/her): Mm. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And I feel like Because this past season was so full of like waka wacka stuff, Anson at least got to do a lot more

of Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: a lot more interesting things, and emotional things. So that's been good. And Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: then occasionally I've seen him kind of capped and up, as they say. But I feel like the season before I was like, what he's he's why is he in charge? He doesn't seem to want to be in charge. He's not interested. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. You know, Damizzon: Sometimes it Mike Jones (he/him): he was such a breath of fresh air in the second season of Discovery. Damizzon: yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): like I like I feel like that pike is like was peak pike, actually, not even on his own show. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: So unpopular opinion, don't agree. Because he came flying into Lanita (she/her): Yay. Woo hoo hoo hoo. Damizzon: Ooh. Mike Jones (he/him): fine. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Discovery and was like, I'm the nicest guy ever. And I just found him to be too much, too much, too nice to whatever. Especially given that they were in this sort of darker era and really Lanita (she/her): Mm. Mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): Right. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: crazy, bad, dark things were happening. And so I I mean, I'm glad they got a show from it, even though it could alternately makes me happy like the musical or fills me with, you know, crazy, nerdy rage over whatever gorn things are happening, but primarily gorn things. But that wasn't my favorite pike. And that was probably my one like not my favorite season of Discovery by a long shot. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Damizzon: It was kind of it's Red Angel. Lanita (she/her): Which one was that? Two? Mike Jones (he/him): Two. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Red yeah, red angel. What the hell's a red angel? Yeah. Lanita (she/her): what see, Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah, the whole red angel arc. Damizzon: Yeah. Lanita (she/her): do we did we never Okay. I know that's that's not what we're talking I know, but it just it it it happened. Damizzon: she's going in. She's going in. Lanita (she/her): Did we ever really figure out Mike Jones (he/him): She's like, so on kill more girls. Lanita (she/her): what don't tempt me. You have no idea. Damizzon: Ha ha ha ha ha. Lanita (she/her): In the red angel of it all, is it the timey whimey that she was warning herself about something and that's why the things, things, and then she came back to tell them that that it Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Well it was like her Mike Jones (he/him): Think. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: mom doing it. And then she was doing it. Lanita (she/her): But we ne but was it her but sh but she was not but she it was she thought it was her mom, but it was her in the timey whiny of it all. Like like Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Right. Well w wasn't it like sometimes her mom and then she took I don't know, it got very confusing. Lanita (she/her): Okay, Mike Jones (he/him): It did. It was always gonna be her. In Discovery, at the end of Lanita (she/her): okay, great. As long as we don't know. It was Damizzon: It was Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: It was very, very confusing. Mike Jones (he/him): the day, if there's someone who's gonna solve the problem, if there's someone who's gonna be like the answer to the mystery, it's Michael Burnham. Like Damizzon: Yeah, it's always Burnham. Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Right. Okay. I just I just I didn't know like it it was said and I didn't know if if you would know it if it was answered. You know, it Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I was just as confused as everybody else. Lanita (she/her): Okay. Damizzon: let me ask a bigger question from this though. What do you think that we have learned about serialized storytelling in Star Trek? Lanita (she/her): Ooh. Just a little light question. Damizzon: They're just a just a little question, you know. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: That you that if first of all, I'm gonna say primarily, generally, most of the time, don't. And Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: if you're gonna do it, you better ha you have to have an idea that can really thoroughly sustain it. And look, that's Lanita (she/her): Hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: a problem Lost had. That's a problem a lot of shows Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: had is that they build in all this stuff and then they they're it's not really packed in there. And I think like And there were th also look, Discovery did some experiments that I give them credit for, even if they didn't work all the time, too. But that yeah, the serialization was definitely in season one, if you rewatch season one, which I recommend, it it Damizzon: It's so much better than you think it is. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: it moves first of all, it's so much better than you think it is, and it moves so fast. There are so many things that happen in that show in one episode where you're like, my god, like And then it it's it slowed down later, but it was very, very fast. And there was a lot of like world building and layers and all these different things going in. Even though if you think about it, making that season was like the biggest hot mess since next Damizzon: Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: gen season one. Like just Mike Jones (he/him): yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: people being fired and things changing and v behind the scenes shenanigans that were Lanita (she/her): Really? See? See all the stuff I never know. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Damizzon: I would love to do an ep a Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: not good and Damizzon: podcast episode just going into that. Just like t from someone who knows that story just to like go through like what all happened 'cause Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah, I mean some things I can't I do know stuff that I can't talk about because I was told in confidence, obviously. Other things were Damizzon: of course. Yeah. Lanita (she/her): Nope, don't. Yes, correct. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: more from reporting and so, you know,

but and work I mean when I was working on the after show, the people who came in all were seemed happy and fine. Damizzon: Mm-hmm. Well, Mike Jones (he/him): that's good. Lanita (she/her): Ha ha Mike Jones (he/him): We need a whole Chaos on the Bridge Lanita (she/her): ha ha. Damizzon: also Brian Fuller Mike Jones (he/him): sequel documentary about discovery. Damizzon: Yeah. Yeah. c Brian Filler is a fascinating writer and just like his body of work is very so I I you know, I I I would have loved to have like a full on like like bit by bit breakdown of like who contributed what and you know Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Someone's g I feel like I'm hoping like somebody like Mark Altman or Larry Nimitek, like Damizzon: Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: one of those guys really digs in with them Lanita (she/her): Very. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: to get the full, to get the full story. Yeah, no, and those guys are Lanita (she/her): We love Larry Nibichek. He would be Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: both really good guys, really know their trek, have both been reporting on it for decades and decades, and been Lanita (she/her): Decades. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: on sets and done all those things. Mark has a new documentary out. Larry's working on a new documentary. So I feel like the it would be I mean, obviously I would love to do it, but I think it'll be one of those guys who Damizzon: Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: sits down one day. And I Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I feel like Larry's probably been collecting stuff for a long time. Mike Jones (he/him): About rien. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I think so. I think even in the first season I feel like people were making their way to him and s doing sit downs and things like that. Yeah. Damizzon: Interesting. Mike Jones (he/him): wow. Well, I how long how many how years has he been sitting on this con of wrath stuff that he's been collecting Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): and working on? And it's finally gonna happen. Like this, that's his new doc, right? Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yep. Yep. Through the nacelle company. These are all we're lucky because right now we have a whole bunch of interesting people who wanna talk about Trek, who have companies or resources and are doing very interesting things. So Mark Altman's documentary, I just saw this last week. The Center Seat is out, which everybody Damizzon: Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: can see, which is Brian Volk Voice Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: and the Nacelle Company, and then Larry's working on his. And I'm just gonna throw some more two more great Star Trek documentaries. One is Be Lanita (she/her): Go for it. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Me Up Sulu. Have you seen that one? Mike Jones (he/him): Mm. Damizzon: No, but we we've met those people at at a con, yeah. Lanita (she/her): No, it's Mike Jones (he/him): I saw the Yes, we met them, but I haven't seen it yet. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: They are amazing. The directors are amazing. And I it is, you can if you're not a Star Trek fan, it's still a great documentary. Really, Mike Jones (he/him): good. Lanita (she/her): Love those. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: really good. And it has this clear thing that it's exploring, nice and tight, short. I like a good, tight, short documentary. And the other one was done a while ago, Woman in Motion, about Nishelle Nichols recruiting people into NASA Damizzon: yes. Yes. Mike Jones (he/him): Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: back in the day. Also, if you're not a Star Trek fan, still great. Damizzon: So great. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I mean, I listen. I love me some center seat and some sixty year mission and all this stuff that I'm nerdishly, fiendishly excited Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: about. So yeah, yeah, yeah. So Mike Jones (he/him): Mm. Damizzon: And we love Chaos on the Bridge. I mean that was like deliciousness, yes. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: yeah, there's so much good stuff out there. Damizzon: also interesting, the now I don't remember what it's called. to the to the to the journey. The the the Voyager documentary Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yes. Damizzon: was yeah, was I don't know. I mean I saw it because my friend has Mike Jones (he/him): the Voyager dock, yeah. finally. I still haven't seen it. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Finally arrived. Damizzon: the D V D because he was one one of the Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Damizzon: yeah, one of the sponsors. So Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. And the sixty year mission go ahead. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Can I tell you a funny story about the premiere that doesn't relate to any of our topics? So I I went to one of the Damizzon: Please. Yes, that's exact w that's who we are. Lanita (she/her): Yes, absolutely. Welcome. Welcome to the pod. Mike Jones (he/him): It is. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: screenings and somehow got David Zapone, who directed it, was like, you can just he knew me from Trek Movie, and he's like, You can go wait in the green room. And I was like, Okay. I'm in the green room. Some Star Trek people start coming in. It's very exciting. I'm sitting on a couch. At one point, we have Kate Mulgrew. Terry Farrell and Ethan Phillips, and they all are sort of engaged in this conversation. I realize I need to get up from this couch so they can ha. And at that moment, Terry kind of turns me, she's Would you mind? I'm like, not at all. She's so sweet. Okay. So I get up, thinking I'm just gonna get up, slide out of the way gracefully and quietly. Nobody's gonna notice. And my foot catches on the leg of the table that's in front Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: of the couch. And I trip and the table kind of it doesn't spill, but it like moves, lurches forward. Lanita (she/her): Ha ha ha Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And it's very loud, and everybody stops what they're

doing. And there's this terrible moment of like, and I go, and I'm like, that's me being smooth. And then the person Damizzon: Ha ha ha. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: who rescues me from this terrible moment is Robin Curtis, aka Savik in in Star Trek III. And she comes up to me, basically puts her arm around me. We walk away, and she's like, you know, usually when there's a big noise like that, it's me. And so Lanita (she/her): Ho ho ho Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha ha. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And I spent the rest of the evening like hanging out with Robin Curtis. We sat next to each other and watched Mike Jones (he/him): Gosh. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: the documentary, but I can't separate Voyager documentary and humiliating myself in front of people I really, really like. Damizzon: That is brilliant. That's so good. Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha ha. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: It was such a Lori Elster moment, like truly exactly sums up everything about me. Lanita (she/her): You were like, sure, I Damizzon: I love that. Lanita (she/her): give up you guys, you guys go ahead Mike Jones (he/him): I love it. Lanita (she/her): and talk. Slink, sling. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Yeah. Slink sink smash. Yeah, it was Damizzon: Amazing. I love it. I love it. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: it was the worst the worst. Lanita (she/her): But the best because look how the night ended. You chitty chattin. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah, Robin Curtis. Lanita (she/her): I mean Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Saved by Savik. Yeah. Lanita (she/her): There you go. Mike Jones (he/him): Save my Savik. Lanita (she/her): I love it. Mike Jones (he/him): She's great. Damizzon: Do you think that you know, as w w whatever the next era is, what do you think are some of the sort of like new canon contributions? If you're someone like writing new another era of Star Trek and you're looking back at this era, what are some like original canon ideas that were brought into this that that you want to latch on to and develop from? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: that's a great question. Do you have I now I I'm like, do you have stuff while I think about it? Because it's a big question. Damizzon: I mean here here's yes. I mean the one that I the thing that I love is is a is a Picard season one thing, weirdly enough, is the Kawat Malot and the absolute candor and the like that that there are I I I kind of love some and and Lower Decks did this some too, is that we have this idea of like Kleons are this way and Romulans are this way. And I think that some of the new track really was able to like lean into cultural differences within an alien race and that there yes. yeah, no, we yes, we yes, we a Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Not so many monocultures. Yeah. Lanita (she/her): Species. Species Damason, not a race. They are a species. Mike Jones (he/him): No cultures, right? Damizzon: fr yes, a a friend of ours who's been on our pod a few times reminded Lanita (she/her): Hey

hey. Damizzon: us that we say we like to say alien race rather than that, you know, in our world a race is a racial differences are within the same species and that we we misuse the word race in sci fi. Mike Jones (he/him): Really alien species. Damizzon: so I got called on that a few times. Let me just copy Mike Jones (he/him): Good job. Lanita (she/her): No, but you know, because what it speaks speaks to is that an alien species is not, it's not a monolith, right? Like when you're saying that Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Lanita (she/her): they I think that that is what the best part about quote unquote new track is, is that you assume that a Klingon is this, we're gonna show you that they are not all the same. We're you think that a beta zoid is this, you think that a Vulcan is this, it everybody can be different. And Orion, I'm not one a thief. I wanna do science. Like it's and I think that it helps people who are watching it understand that guess what? Just because everybody in your family is ex doesn't mean that you have to be ex. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Which look back at Deep Space Nine and Ferengi. Like there's that's so I mean, Damizzon: Yeah. Lanita (she/her): Correct. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: that was a massive, massive change for creating a species that was truly a mistake and this weird monoculture that made no sense at all and wasn't sustainable. And then they actually turned it into something with with nuance and different characters and different kinds of people who wanted different things out of life. Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Exactly. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Damizzon: Well, and even we see that, you know, especially on in Academy, that we see that we see i i in the Klingon episode, we see Jay Lanita (she/her): Mm. Damizzon: Den's family who is all black actors, and then we see we see Nala Ake's former lover who's like almost albino, Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Damizzon: you know, so that you're like, that th Yes. It's so good. It's okay. But which is to say like they that you can Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And and twice her height, which is disturbing to think about. Mike Jones (he/him): Right. Lanita (she/her): Huge. Huge. Isn't Damizzon: There's a range Lanita (she/her): it? It's Damizzon: of what you can be and still be a Klingon and that it is yeah. Lanita (she/her): Correct. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah, no, absolutely. So it's that is a great quality to have brought in from earlier track into current track and then evolve for the next one for sure. Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah, I'm trying to think of what other canon because we you know, I think they got too much into the although I enjoyed Discovery's Leap into the Future, the magic technology was a ch story problem sometimes. Because Lanita (she/her): Mm. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: how do you decide when something's easy to create and when something isn't? easy to create, right? Like you just have to

make it up for the story. So that's kinda Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Damizzon: Well, it's like transporters are a story problem. Why not just beam out? You know, like Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yes, yes, Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Lanita (she/her): Transporters are there's always listen okay, yes, but you because Damizzon: It's a magic escape button at every moment, right? So they have to so they're constantly explaining why you can't beam out. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Yes. Lanita (she/her): the shields have to be down, you cannot go through a barrier, you cannot have interference from the magnetic for. Yes, there are no Damizzon: Okay. Yes. Yes, there are rules that they build in, but sometimes there are, you know Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Right. Mike Jones (he/him): Well Right. Lanita (she/her): there are always rules, and the rules always work. And if you don't, then you'll be splinched, spliced, too vixed. Damizzon: Okay. Mike Jones (he/him): You'll be splinched. my gosh. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Splinched I don't want to be splinched. Mike Jones (he/him): Well in in the far future, you don't even have to tell the transporter where you want to go. You just tap your badge and poof! Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: That's the see things like that I always find so confusing. I mean I even used Mike Jones (he/him): Right. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: to people argue with me and tell I'm stupid for this one, but I was always confused like when Picard goes like Picard to Riker, like how does Riker hear it before he says it and everybody goes, well it's really on a delay, but they're just showing it that way and I'm like Lanita (she/her): How does thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. No, but here's the thing. Can everybody Mike Jones (he/him): It doesn't make any sense. Lanita (she/her): hear it or is it just in their ear? I don't understand. You're having these private conversations that everybody can just hear. What are we doing? What I don't Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Right. And like how many times were they somewhere where people would hear them go enterprise to it? And you're like, shh shh. Like when Jack Bowers on his cell phone, like shh, like it rings, Mike Jones (he/him): Right. Lanita (she/her): Exactly. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: you're like, what are doing? Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Well that's why, you know, they made like a Bluetooth badge that you can connect to your phone, but it's not that Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: yeah. I have it somewhere. Yeah. Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): popular because no one wants to just be on speakerphone all the time. You know what I mean? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah, yeah. Well Lanita (she/her): That's what I mean. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: it reminds me that one of the really dumb things in season one of Discovery was when they're planting those things on the Klingon ship and the thing yells out, Activated seeking partner device to match Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: up and destroy your ship. Like it's like this whole announcement. It it and the phasers all make when they turn on the phaser it goes. You're like, why? Lanita (she/her): Me Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha ha. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: You would never ever have those things make noise. Lanita (she/her): The stealth mode, stealth mode. It'd be like pink. Like just vibrates. Like now Mike Jones (he/him): Right. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yes. Lanita (she/her): you know when your phone rings now, you know that someone's picked up because it does a little vibrate. Like that's all you need. Just needs to vibrate. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Lanita (she/her): So you know that it's that it's armed and dangerous. Hilarious. Say someone else who understands. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: But the thing that yeah, the thing that announced itself as the it was insane. It was just what is it doing? Why, Lanita (she/her): Ha ha ha. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: why? Mike Jones (he/him): god. Damizzon: so I I wanna know what Lanita (she/her): Comic relief. Damizzon: you think in terms of women in Star Trek in the Kurtzman era and like what is what what are some of the big differences from the Berman era before it and there's Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Sorry. Damizzon: there's plenty. There's plenty. Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha ha. Lanita (she/her): I love these laughs. The like the chuckle is the best. It's like, well, strap in, kitties. I'm gonna tell you how Damizzon: Yeah. Lanita (she/her): it is. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Well, because we got variety of women. We Damizzon: Yes. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: got women in in different shapes and sizes and colors and preferences and temperament and interests and strengths and weaknesses, which we needed. I mean, it's so funny when you look at how many I do the math and I'm like Stranger Worlds, I think, has the most main cast members who are women. Actually, like Discovery didn't, which is interesting. but we have Lanita (she/her): Hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: The v the variety that we get, you look back at the old shows and you're like, well, like Deep Space Nine and Voyager did take it to another level. Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Absolutely. Then Enterprise went, rewind. Let's go backwards. Damizzon: Yep. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: so but these shows have really done remarkable things for women and older women, which are usually taboo for television and science fiction Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: and stuff like that. So that's been really nice. And yeah, just every b I I'm like that we have Tilly and we have Jet Reno Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: and we have Michael Burnham and we have I love what if you think about what Celia has done with Uhura's character, whether you however you feel about Stranger Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Worlds, because it does piss me off a lot, that show. But when you

Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: look at what Celia has taken everything that was already there, and Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: then just It's turning it up, but it's because she finally gets the camera on her on purpose instead of catching all of her fabulous things in the background, like with Nichelle Nichols. And Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: so that alone, like the changes, the differences we've seen in her and a pilot like Ortega. And I mean, there's so many. I'm I love the characters in Academy. Like, look at those women and how different they all are from each other. Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Damizzon: Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: So, and how none of them are those are catty or any of those. bullshit cliche things either, which I appreciate. But their their range is just unbelievable. Damizzon: And it's funny I you know, I looking at I always look at Deep Space Nine because it feels like Kira and Dax are sort of the sort of first real women action heroes Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Mm-hmm. Damizzon: that we get in Star Trek. But if you look at it, you're like, how many times did they go on an adventure? Just the two of them? I think once. I think once in the opening Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Very rarely. I Damizzon: of season two. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Well there's the one where they get they crash there in the shuttle or something and they're going for some whole Bajoran plot that they're trying to unmask. Yes, Damizzon: Right. And they're dressed like monks. Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: that one. That's the main one. And then occasionally they they go to the holodeck just as princesses. Damizzon: Right. Right. That does not count. Lanita (she/her): That doesn't count. Th Mike Jones (he/him): 'Cause why wouldn't you? Lanita (she/her): th being a princess does Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: It counts because Kira was so mortified. Damizzon: Yes. Yes. Lanita (she/her): Hehehe! Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: 'Cause isn't that when she met Wharf for the first time and she's standing there in this princess garb, just like I don't normally dress like this. Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: But yes, no, those they didn't get a lot of scenes together, for sure. And they should have. But they also ful they they really started a new era for women in Trek. And then Voyager took that to the next level. And like I said, Enterprise dropped it like a hot potato. Damizzon: Sure. Dropped. Let it go. Let it go. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Bye bye. Damizzon: do you feel like that that part of the you know success that we've seen in actually how how much of the success on this front that we see in New Trek is because of changes in the writer's room? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Well can you be I'm not sure specifically with Damizzon: In terms of in terms of who they're in like is it it because there are women on the sta on the writing staff in a way that there weren't before in because of the actual like di diversity of who's actually in terms of who's actually creating the show? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I mean, I think a huge part of it is, I mean, yeah, that ca I mean, I look, whatever you think about Alex Kurtzman, he knows how to cast. Because Lanita (she/her): Mm. Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: whoever he hires to do the casting and the decisions they make, I would say I have one huge exception, but the rest have been great. Not not enjoying Paul Wesley as Kirk at all. Very that is a just does not work for me at all. He Damizzon: Mm-hmm. Lanita (she/her): Why can't no expound? Why? What happened? Tell me. I want to know. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: He is not Kirk. That is not Kirk. Like they just they didn't capture something magical about the character. For so long, he was just playing him as cocky. There was one Mike Jones (he/him): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: episode this season where I didn't mind him so much. And I'm trying remember which one it is. And it's late and I'm a little blurry. But for the most part, I just I'm like, that's not the Kirk. Like if you know Kirk like I know Kirk, I grew up with Kirk. And so I know not just the Persona that is the public image Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: of the womanizing, I'm gonna do the thing, even though Spock told me not to do the thing, Kirk. Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha ha. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: There's this Lanita (she/her): Okay. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: tragic backstory, thoughtful guy, sensitive guy, emotional person, loves his friends very much, is capable of being the greatest friend you ever had. And is is a complex guy who did not start out cocky. Like his whole history in academy was that he was nerdy and dorky. He was called a stack of books with legs. He was a tough instructor. Mike Jones (he/him): Mm. He was picked on. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Like he had all these things. And he'd been through this horrific massacre on a planet where he lived. Like there's so much stuff back there. And so then to have this guy come in who's just like swaggering and cocky and looks like Jim Carrey and is older than he should be. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Damizzon: Yeah, yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: It's it's not working for me. And it's not, I don't think Paul like I've I've barely seen Paul Wesley in anything else. He was oddly in 24, briefly. but I haven't really seen him in anything else. I'm sure he's great. He's a popular actor. People love him. He's brought he's definitely brought people to the show. Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: so it's not about him as an actor. It's about the way they've written Kirk. And then, like, it's very Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: hard to do Kirk. And I think Chris Pine, who played a very different version of Kirk again, but he had that little spark. Like, Chris Pine is a really

interesting person. And so he ha the JJ movies. Lanita (she/her): These in the new movies. These are the these are the the ones. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lanita (she/her): Just so you know, I've only because I'm a completionist. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Lanita (she/her): I know just because I just so she knows. I've only seen all of the movies and maybe the first JJ Abrams one, but I don't remember seeing it. So we're gonna mine it for the pod. So anything after the first one, no clue. Don't even remember the Damizzon: She she had only seen s Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Okay. Damizzon: through Search for Spock and we said stop right there and we will do an episode with about your first viewing of each of these movies. Yeah, it was fun. So so we did so Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: that's so fun. that's awesome. Lanita (she/her): Very fun. Damizzon: the first one was obviously th whi th Wales and Star Trek Four and it was blew blew my it was Lanita (she/her): Correct. I was like, holy Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: You must have enjoyed that very much. Lanita (she/her): shit. I was like, this is the greatest thing ever. Damizzon: Well also it was I was like we were like, how have you seen all of TOS, TAS, Next Gen, D Space Nine, Voyager and Enterprise and Lanita (she/her): Yes. Yep. Sure have. Yep. Mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): Huh. Damizzon: Discovery and whatever we were up to at that point, watching that movie for the first like Lanita (she/her): At the time what it w Yup. Every last episode. Damizzon: has there ever been a like more complete viewer of Star Trek watching that movie for the first time? So it was a it was our s little experiment. Yeah, it's fun. Lanita (she/her): It's great. Yes. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: That's great. Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: That's so fun. Do you know what's I've been I I love the Delta Flyers podcast, which is, you know, Robbie and Garrett. And now they're doing Deep Space Nine and they have Terry and Armin on. And so I'm watching with them and cause they have polls and I vote in the polls or whatever. And an episode came on that I had no memory of ever having seen before. So I got to watch a brand new Mike Jones (he/him): That's amazing. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: episode of Deep Space Nine a cut like a month Damizzon: God bless. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: ago. That I was like, what is I have, I swear, I mean, I've seen every episode. Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And somehow, even in rewatches, this one I how I don't know how I missed it, but I just Lanita (she/her): And that's the thing. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I got a brand new Deep Space Nine episode. What a gift. Damizzon: And it wasn't like you'd forgotten Lanita (she/her): Gift. Damizzon: it, you had fully just never seen it. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: No, I s I I mean I must I have no memory of ever having seen it before, which is I mean, look, there's some that I kind of like Enterprise,

I'm some I know really well and some I'm super shady and don't remember any of it. And that's a little bit Lanita (she/her): And that's fine and it's okay. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: like a new one. S kind and then I'm like, I sort of vaguely remember this. But this was just, I don't know what maybe my brain, maybe it's Lanita (she/her): Wipe from your brain. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: My the weed that I enjoy just snapped away, like chose those specific brain cells. You don't need this one. Let's make it fresh for you. Cause I was like, what's gonna happen? Lanita (she/her): Y it it yep. It's like yep said, you don't need this one. It'll be some that'll be surprised for you later. Damizzon: Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha ha. Damizzon: Listen, I there is a difference because I was definitely not smoking weed when I watched a Berman era trek for the first time in my younger youth and that mm it you know, it I'm sure it it's impacting how I am digesting new tracks. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: It is a different exp yeah. Like even Mike Jones (he/him): sure. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: with Strange New World, so I try to do because I watch it because we review any show that we're reviewing, I watch multiple times because I need to Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: be fair to the episode. So I watch one time just sitting in front of my TV, usually high, just as I like to watch TV. That's how I view TV. So one Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: way is that way. Then I do it completely, I'm not high, and I do a note-taking pass where I watch it. Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And then I wait till we're like recording that. day or the next day. And I would do one more pass with my notes, highlighting things that I think are that have stuck with me that are worth talking about, answering questions that I was like, I didn't, how did they do this? I don't understand. And then they did it. And it is a different experience. And sometimes you have to go back and do you ever do you guys ever listen to the podcast Trek Mary Kill? Do you know that one? Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: my God, it's so fun. Mike Jones (he/him): I've heard of it. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: It's such a good podcast. And when they did the season three Strange New Worlds finale and enjoyed how batshit crazy it is. I went back and put it back on and got super high and was like, this is great. Damizzon: Ha ha ha ha. Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha ha ha! Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Like it's Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: just nuts, right? It's nuts. Lanita (she/her): It is, but it's a great episode. it's a great episode. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. It's yeah. They loaded it up with every they took every single thing, just were like, let's throw it in there. And you realize, yeah, no, this is really good. Yeah. Damizzon: Do you feel like there are or Mike Jones (he/him): Well Damizzon: sorry, there that there's it Lanita (she/her): No, Mike Jones, it's not your turn yet. Damizzon: talking about it you know, women in New Track and, you know, how things have moved forward and do you do you feel like there are moments where they fell short? Can you can you or are there are there are there characters that you felt like were backtracking or storylines that you felt Lanita (she/her): Mm. Damizzon: or was it And a a as I'm asking this, I'm not I there's I have nothing in mind. I mean I I it is you know, it really does feel like ha things have moved forward in that, but I'm Wondering. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Mostly. I mean, I think most of the time when I I don't think I've had issues in this era with how women are portrayed. They just Mike Jones (he/him): Great. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: seem like they're real. Like it's Damizzon: Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: all you know, and that's it's different when they had to represent everything, right? Like Damizzon: Right. Yeah. Yeah, I think it Lanita (she/her): Mm yes. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I represent all women. Lanita (she/her): Yes. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: So, you Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha ha. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: know, like it's people of color had to do that all the time. Like you represent all black people. Lanita (she/her): Yep. The the entire all of them. W what you do is what they all do. Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Asians. Yeah. Yes. Yes. That is all of them. And we don't really have that anymore. So occasionally when I think, that's a stupid thing that character did, or I didn't like it, I it's not, it's that character. And Mike Jones (he/him): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: that's it. And that Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: is a huge gift of the era, I think, because that is done with. I think the sexism is mostly done. Is it I mean, there's always pieces that are just subtle because it's still just part of who we are. Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: But I would say for the most part, it's just not there anymore. And I think that they've also they and behind the scenes, they've made a massive effort to hire a lot of female directors because that is traditionally a male job. So, and that I appreciate that effort for sure. And still hiring the people that they love to hire and bringing people back Lanita (she/her): Hm. Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: and lots of men too, but definitely trying to expand that. It's a perspective, right? Like you want different perspectives. Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Whether you're making Star Mike Jones (he/him): Absolutely. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Trek or reviewing it. Like you def that's Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: why I was talking to some twenty year old in the line to get her view of everything, because Damizzon: Absolutely. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: it's gonna be totally different from mine. Lanita (she/her): Yeah, yeah. It's

so interest Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: So No, go ahead. Lanita (she/her): No, I was just saying it's so interesting. I heard someone say, you know, when it comes to directing, it's like the movie that you're watching, yes, a director shot it, but then there's an editor and it's usually a woman editing something. So Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yes. Lanita (she/her): technically you're watching a the a woman's movie anyway. Like, Mike Jones (he/him): Mm. Lanita (she/her): okay, great, yeah, they did all these shots, but the first like pass of like editing that editor They're they're giving you the film and then the director comes, well no, I'm gonna tweak it Mike Jones (he/him): Hmm. Lanita (she/her): here and here. And I thought that was a very in any you know, yes, director, your film. But I thought it was very interesting how kinda you didn't hire me to direct it, but I'm editing it and so it's technically a woman's movie anyway, because we're always there in the background Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Lanita (she/her): doing something. Mike Jones (he/him): sure. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: It's true. It's true. And also like directing in the Berman era was much more like you come in, they give you the stuff, you do it. And maybe if you were someone who just who was established and had been there a bunch, or someone like David Livingston, who was also a producer on the show, like he could plan more and come up with more and ask for different things. On these news shows, they really we've talked extensively to Chris Fisher, who is the producing director of Strange New Worlds. And They really are try look, I may not agree with their choices, but they're Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: a hundred percent, they are choices Damizzon: Committed. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: and they are Mike Jones (he/him): Mm. Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: strong choices that they've decided on. And they, with their directors, they try to pick what's the right director for this and work with that person ahead of time and Lanita (she/her): Hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: let them put their stamp on it and give them the time when they're filming, for better or for worse financially, to Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: let them try different things and do different things. And so I do think ask. Anyone who worked on Strange New Worlds and they will tell you, I had the greatest time. I got to be so creative. I got to do these new things. And it wasn't as strict as the Berman era. Now, look, as a viewer, a lot of people prefer that Berman. They like the consistency of language, the consistency of visual style. I kind Lanita (she/her): Mm, mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: of see both, I see both sides of that. As someone who has to grab screenshots all the time, I'll tell you that those 90s shows are a gift. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Damizzon: They're they're moving slower across the frame. yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And you will remember some No, and just nice, clean shots. Lanita (she/her): Clean shots, yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And then when you're watching, Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: like, I'll be like, I remember when that crazy thing happened on Discovery. And it I think my brain filled in stuff because I go look and I'm like, the shot's not there. Or there's no shot where you see the person and the thing because the camera's going woo Lanita (she/her): Ha ha ha. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: and it's going all crazy. And just for screenshots alone, like there is there are reasons to like each one. But I think if I were a a director, I would be much happier with the With the Chris Fisher of it than the Rick Berman of Damizzon: Interesting. Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Absolutely. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I would love to see one of those directors cross into the into whatever they do next. Like one of the directors Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: from old school come. I mean, Frakes is the one, right? He's the guy Damizzon: Yeah, he really is. Like who else? Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: and he's done it. And here's the funny part, here's my personal analysis, which is that when he got there and he did have this freedom that he'd never had before, and they were allowed to improv. And then the big episode they gave him was the great crossover between lower decks and Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And Strange New Worlds, right? And so then he's working with two great improvisers, right? He has Jack Quaid and primarily Tony Newsom, who's like the best Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: improviser you could ever have, and a writer. Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And so for him, like he got to go wild there and let them do all kinds of things. Unfortunately, he then brought that energy to the subsequent episode of Strange New Worlds. And when you look at the one that I really don't like, which is the Space Adventure Hour. Damizzon: The holodeck one, yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: one, the holodeck one. And I think it's because he was like, Everybody go nuts. And everybody went nuts. And it was super funny while you were standing there on the set. Not so funny when I'm watching at home. Lanita (she/her): Which one was Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Lanita (she/her): the holodeck one? What it what happened in that episode? Damizzon: It's the murder mystery. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Where they're doing the Mike Jones (he/him): The one Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: fake sci-fi show that's Mike Jones (he/him): where they're making a T V show. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: supposed to look like Star Trek but actually is like Lost in Space, combined with season two of Space 1999. So Lanita (she/her): yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah thank you. Sometimes you sometimes

you have to remind me of like I'm like 'cause Mike Jones (he/him): Very accurate. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Lanita (she/her): I've watched them all and and enjoyed you know, for better or for worse. But okay, yes, I remember this one. Many themes. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I think they got into the whole like look at it, we can do whatever we want. Like, because he's told us, he's like, you know, when Paul Wesley said, should I go farther? He's like, he's no said, stop me if I go too far. And Jonathan Frakes said, I'm not stopping you. And somebody needed to stop him. And so, Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Yeah. Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: and not just him, like, I don't blame Paul Wesley for that, but there Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: were a lot of really bad choices on that episode. And we had Frakes on our podcast, and we actually I had to tell him why I didn't like it. Damizzon: What did say? Lanita (she/her): Yes, Lord. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And I felt Mike Jones (he/him): That is Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: s I felt so bad. I mean, he was totally f he's asked, right? And so I was like, I will tell you if you want me to tell you. And I got into some of it. And I also said, like, when you make the most of the story happen in a holodeck episode that doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter because the only person there was Laan, so it had no resonance Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: for anybody. Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: So we've wasted we have a f a fifty minute show and now ten minutes is lost to meaningless nothing. I didn't say it quite like that. I did not. But he appreciated it. And the Lanita (she/her): No you didn't. We know you didn't. We we know y but say it here with us. Meaningless nothing. Mike Jones (he/him): Hehehehehe Damizzon: Meaningless nothing. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: next time we had him on, I was like, and I love this other thing you did. so but he did need to Lanita (she/her): Ha ha Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: hear it. And I think I like to think he needed to hear it. But that like sometimes I think they're like when a character says, What if I did this? Because they wanted to. Like Garrett on Voyager was always saying, Can I do impressions? And I'm glad they kept saying Mike Jones (he/him): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: no. Damizzon: Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Like he may Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: be great at in fact he does a great Janeway and a great doctor. And he's pretty good. He does a little Chicote Damizzon: Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: thing too. That's pretty good. But that wouldn't have been the place for it. Damizzon: That's not Harry Kim. Mike Jones (he/him): It's not that show, yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Right. It's not Harry Kim. He would have been mortified to do those impressions. Like he wouldn't have. So I think when you have a situation where you have people just letting the actors run a bit too wild, even though they're all very talented, I think pe Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Mm-hmm. Time and place. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Yeah. Damizzon: Well, and it's the thing about big Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Damizzon: swings. Like that's what they you know, the their thing that they always say about Stranger Worlds is big swings. You're like, Okay, big swings are great, but what is home what when when are you grounded? What is home base? Like what are you Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And also sci fi is a big swing. Like, if you think about Lanita (she/her): Already. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: all the high con like high concept is built in. Here's something Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Robbie just said on the Delta Flyers. And he said the elements of Star Trek, because they were watching the Deep Space Nine episode Change of Heart, which is when Wharf and Dax go on the mission, and Damizzon: Sure. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Worf ultim I'm not spoiling for anybody, right? Wharf Lanita (she/her): Mm No, no, no, we've all we've all watched. Damizzon: No, we've all seen it. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: the mission fails because Wharf has to save Dax and he chooses to save Dax. And so he said what was missing for him in that episode was the sci-fi. He was like it was a great story, but there was no real sci-fi in it. And he said Star Trek has to have the relate the very grounded relationships and Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: then the very high concept sci-fi. And I feel like Stranger World sometimes forgets that that's all that's already there. Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Although I say this as someone who has watched the musical 4,000 times. So episode of Strange New Worlds. Lanita (she/her): The musical f the Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Lanita (she/her): and here's the thing. All little known fact, all of us are in theater some way or another. Musical episode, hello. Musicals, my life. Love like nobody's business. I was like, that episode works so well because songs were made for the episode versus just taking a random song. I love Grace Anatomy, and singing the songs during the scenes. We did a whole we did a whole episode about musical episodes in shows, Buffy, Star Trek. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Did you do this the Supergirl Flash crossover? The best one? Okay, Lanita (she/her): No, haven't s haven't watched either of those shows. Mike Jones (he/him): No Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: first of all, the director is the same director who did the Strange New Worlds one. And he was a Disney child star. He is a fascinating person. And that have that cross, that is, Lanita (she/her): Okay, well then. See what I'm saying? Yay! Decoms. Mike Jones (he/him): Hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: that was like I was not into the whole musical episode idea. And then I saw that, and I have watched that one a thousand million

times also, and to cheer me up when I'm sad. when I watch it. so I the str yeah the Stranger Worlds one is so good. I listen Lanita (she/her): It's a it's a great episode. It they're great songs. Move the story for Mike Jones (he/him): Nice. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: to the songs all the time. They're in my regular playlist so that I can listen to them all the time. They live rent free in my head. So that one I love, but then take me down to the planet where it's all black and white and I'm like, what the hell is going on? Why are we here? Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Mm. Like why are we doing Lanita (she/her): the film noir one. Well, Mike Jones (he/him): this? Lanita (she/her): you've got well, it's to give Ohura some information so that she can be her best self. Like that for me, now when finishing the season, I'm like, that episode is just to give extra information to Ohura so that she can ascend. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: It's not enough of a reason to make it all black and white. Damizzon: Also also it's the one episode that Lanita (she/her): I know. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Damizzon: that in our group discussion of it that some of the comments were that people were bored. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yes, it was boring. Damizzon: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lanita (she/her): It was noir, was supposed to be slow and moody. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: No, I like a good film noir, but that was not Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: a good one. Mike Jones (he/him): Right. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Again, it was very surface. The thing with Strange New Worlds, when Lanita (she/her): Yes. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: it when Strange New Worlds bothers me is when I watch the episode and I go, why? What was the thing that made Lanita (she/her): Hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: you think, I want to write this story, and I don't Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: know what it is sometimes. Other tim the puppet episode I actually did know Damizzon: Yeah, same. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: what it was. I got it. Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: But there are other ones where I don't, and some of them I just don't. And even sometimes they're Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: f they have good scenes and fun scenes and still I Lanita (she/her): Hmm Yeah. Episode trash Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: don't know why. Lanita (she/her): 'cause that's just the nature of watching TV and shows. Be like, hm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: But Star Trek has a why. Lanita (she/her): It does I Mike Jones (he/him): It should. Lanita (she/her): b well, there we go. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Lanita (she/her): It should. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I mean the whole problem with Picard season two was that there was what the hell is going on? There's no why at all. I have no idea Mike Jones (he/him): Right? Lanita (she/her): It's Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: why anybody's doing any of

the things that they're doing. What is happening? Lanita (she/her): Is that the one where they went back or they went forward or they were in the weird the weird place Mike Jones (he/him): It's yeah. Damizzon: Yeah. To twenty twenty four. Lanita (she/her): there was yeah, Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: We're like Mike Jones (he/him): Like Picard's Lanita (she/her): okay. Mike Jones (he/him): mommy issues. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: where Q told Sung ancestor to drive over Picard in a car to show him the power of love. I don't know, it was very confusing. Lanita (she/her): But wait, which was the one where they were in a different Mike Jones (he/him): It was really confusing. Lanita (she/her): where everyone was a different person in was that season two or Mike Jones (he/him): Mm. Lanita (she/her): is that season three? In Picard where Yes. Damizzon: Yeah, where yeah, where they and there's a there's suddenly they're in an alternate timeline and then they're the only ones who understand. Mike Jones (he/him): yes, yeah. That was like the second episode. Yeah, yeah. In season two. President Seven of Nine. Lanita (she/her): Is that season two? Okay. Great, thank you. Just you know y'all have to. Thank you. Yes. Great. Damizzon: Yeah. Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yes. Damizzon: Yes. Mike Jones (he/him): So there are a list Lanita (she/her): Bright. Mike Jones (he/him): of questions that we ask all of our guests. No Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Okay. Lanita (she/her): No, no, wait before you do that, Mike Jones. Yes, it has to happen Damizzon: this is what Lanita (she/her): because I didn't get I didn't get a chance. I didn't get a chance. We Mike Jones (he/him): Okay. Lanita (she/her): stayed on Star Trek. Laurie, if you could cast Star Trek people in the Gilmore Girls universe, who would be who? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: okay, first of all, you needed to send me that question like days ago. Lanita (she/her): No, it has to happen on the spot. I just thought of it just now. Damizzon: She just she literally just thought of it, I'm sure, as as it came out of her mouth. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Wow. Lanita (she/her): And listen, you you ha only have to cast main characters. So Lorelei, Rory, Luke, Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Suki. Lanita (she/her): yes, parents. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah, mom for sure. Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. And maybe a boyfriend. You can pick which boyfriend you wanna cast. Dealer's choice. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: is a tough one. I mean, sorry, nobody else could ever be Lorelei. Like that just there's no there's no other. You couldn't do it. No, she's the mom. She's like the grandmother. So yeah. Lanita (she/her): I know, I know. No, that she's the mot she's the mom and is no no it's okay. She yeah, she's Damizzon: Is that Kelly Bishop? Sorry, okay, okay, all Sorry. Lanita (she/her): a grandmother Mike Jones (he/him): Mm. Lanita (she/her): and is a force to be reckoned with. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: You know who'd be a interesting Luke? And I'm only saying Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: this 'cause I just interviewed him and he was so cute. Killian O'Sullivan, who's Roger Corby. Mike Jones (he/him): yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: 'Cause when I saw him in person, I was like, hello. So he's super handsome, just crazy handsome, right in front of your face with that Irish accent. Hello. Yeah. Lanita (she/her): And that is Luke with his little listen little backwards cap and a flannel, good to go. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah, like no, he could totally do it. Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And he could do I feel like he could do an accent. I feel like all those guys can do all the accents that they need to do. So, you know, he wouldn't have to be Irish Luke. Lanita (she/her): He could be. I'd be down with that. Totally fine. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Bella Shepherd could be Rory. Lanita (she/her): Okay. Mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Although if you want to do a very different Rory, you could get Carese Brooks and do something in a totally different way. No, Carisse would be a good Paris. Imagine what she could do with that role. B and I I just feel like Carice could do Lanita (she/her): Mmm Yes Yes Paris was my favorite horrible person to love. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: can do anything. She just Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: she she captured my heart in the first minute that I saw her. let's see. one let's try and do one of the boyfriends. Well, so it would either be Dean, Jess, or Logan. Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: We're, by the way, all terrible. Lanita (she/her): Yeah. I'm glad listen, I literally wrote that intro just for you because it made me smile that that is also a secret super power that you have aside from Trek is Mike Jones (he/him): Mm. Lanita (she/her): the Gilmore girls. And the fact that Damazon had zero idea of what any of that meant just warmed my little heart. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah, I know. I feel like there's if you don't have enough of a crossover, people are like, what the hell is she talking about? I just don't care. I asked you know, John Billingsley's Lanita (she/her): They they always think that. That's what I'm here for. Mike Jones (he/him): It's fine. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: in the first I think it's the first episode of Gilmore Girls. He's Rory's teacher. And Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: so I asked Mike Jones (he/him): Wow. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I was talking to him about it and he's he was like, Yeah, then they got rid of me and brought in Max Medina to have the affair with Lorelei. I didn't get to do that. He was still mad. Lanita (she/her): Hehehehehe See, there's always crossover boys. Trek is everywhere. This is how this works. Damizzon: Well the well and I Mike Jones (he/him): There is a yes. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: It is. Damizzon: o I the reho the

the whole the only thing I know about Gilmore Girls is that what the grandma is the original Sheila from Chorus Line Can Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Kelly Bishop. Yes. Damizzon: the adults please smoke? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Did you read her memoir? Mike Jones (he/him): right. Lanita (she/her): Yes. No. Damizzon: I did not. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: You should. It is phenomenal. She's amazing. Lanita (she/her): well we're writing that down. Mike Jones (he/him): Nice. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Kelly Bishop. Lanita (she/her): Memoir. Time to read. Okay, Mike Jones, you can go. I've I've stumped Mike Jones (he/him): Okay. Lanita (she/her): Lori. She I've I've hijacked enough. I'm sorry. I know, I know. I've Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: You've stumped me because I needed time. I can't just Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha ha. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: it's like when somebody goes like, What's your favorite? Whatever I'm like, I don't know. I j I don't know. Mike Jones (he/him): That does not bode well for these questions. Lanita (she/her): Yes, it does. It bodes very well. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Well just don't call it a lightning round 'cause I will not be at the speed of lightning. Mike Jones (he/him): Okay, okay. There it's it's all in good fun. No, no. Lanita (she/her): We never we never do. Mike Jones (he/him): okay, if you could have dinner with three characters, the characters, not the actors, who would they be and why? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Well, you gotta have Janeway. Lanita (she/her): Okay. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Just because how could you because if she told you to, you would just have to do it. Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Whatever she tells you to do, you just need to do. So that's a good start. I would also my God, there's so many. I think maybe McCoy would be very interesting. I have a special love and Mike Jones (he/him): yeah. Lanita (she/her): Ooh boom. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: trust of McCoy. I was very scared of doctors as a kid and a grown-up. And I wish that they could all be McCoy or Crusher, but they're not. And a third one I have to think. my god, there's so many good, good choices. Tilly. Let's get Tilly there. Mike Jones (he/him): wow. Yeah. That's a great combo. Lanita (she/her): Nice. We have not heard of a Tully in the mix. Damizzon: That's a first. We did not hear that one, but that's a good one. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Well, 'cause things will not get boring. She will Lanita (she/her): That is correct. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: keep things going. Damizzon: Right. If if there's Mike Jones (he/him): It won't. Damizzon: a silence, she will fill it. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Right. And if I'm Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: awkward, it'll be fine. It'll be like having Robin Curtis there. Damizzon: Yeah, she'll do way worse. Yes. Lanita (she/her): Yes. Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha. Okay. If you lived in the twenty-fourth century, what would your life be

like? Would you join Starfleet? Would you stay on Earth? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I would want to join Starflight, but I'd be like, what job can I do that they would want me for? Like it would have to be one of those specific things where like you have a sp like, you know how original series they had a historian, you know? Like I need a like a thing of a a niche Damizzon: Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Right, yeah. Let's get that historian down here. Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: kind of like we need someone to do this really weirdly specific thing that we haven't decided what it is yet that would be useful on our ship. Although I Damizzon: We have a twentieth century historian in case Picard wants to go into the holodeck. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I am good at organizing Mike Jones (he/him): Right. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: people into groups and then telling them what to do. So I could be second in command, I guess. Damizzon: Yeah. Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: good at that. But yeah, no, I'd want to be on a starship. Totally. Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): yeah, for sure. What's your go to holodeck program? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Star Trek. Damizzon: Obviously, yeah. Makes Mike Jones (he/him): Honestly. Lanita (she/her): I'm on the ship playing Star Trek. Yep. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I'm on the Damizzon: perfect sense. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: ship playing Star Trek. That's what I'd be doing. Mike Jones (he/him): are you Team Crusher or Pulaski? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I mean I Pulaski has her wonderful moments. You always need a little Pulaski, but crushers away. You know. Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): Are you gonna be doing Klingon Tai Chi with Wharf or Leotard Yoga with Beverly, Indiana? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Jesus. Damizzon: Ha Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Lanita (she/her): It's the first time we've got a a giggle and a Jesus. That was great. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I mean, here's the thing. Can I wear the outfit from the wharf one, but then do the yoga with the other two? Cause Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Damizzon: Yes, yes, yes. Lanita (she/her): Yes, absolutely. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I'm more of a Mike Jones (he/him): Good call. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: yoga person. I used to do a lot of yoga back in the olden days, but I'm not wearing that. I remember that outfit from 80s. I used to go to a gym when I was a teenager and it was in I grew up in Toronto, and it was called Super Fitness, and had a song. But fitness. It was like this horrible song. And all the women who worked there wore these bright blue kind of spark that outfit. But blue. And it was just and I was like, am I supposed to I'm not wearing that. So I'm not wearing that. Yes, you need the leg warmers. Yes, yes. yeah. Damizzon: Ha ha ha. Lanita (she/her): Ha ha ha ha ha. Mike Jones (he/him): But the leg warmers won't look right with anything else. Damizzon: Like the thong over the leotard. Yep. Yep.

Yep. Lanita (she/her): hello, Jamie Lee Curtis in was it true true religion? No, true true spot true Mike Jones (he/him): True. True lies. Lanita (she/her): lies, thank you. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Damizzon: I I was gonna say staying Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah, Mike Jones (he/him): are you? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: it's Damizzon: alive, but okay. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I loved when Lower Decks put put the guys in those outfits. That was great. Mike Jones (he/him): Yes. Lanita (she/her): Yes. Damizzon: Mm, mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And also what were they doing? Like even that their their weird yoga thing. I don't even know what that is. I used to do a lot of yoga and that wasn't it. Yeah, that was that isn't what yoga was. Damizzon: Yeah. They're just stretching. They're stretching. Lanita (she/her): They were tr they were trying. Yes. Nope. Mm Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah, I say yoga. It wasn't really yoga. Lanita (she/her): mm. Mike Jones (he/him): tea Earl Grey hot or coffee black or racogeno. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Okay, Earl Grey is disgusting. I'm just gonna say that out. I just had a conversation with Yvette from the Sci-Fi Sisters Damizzon: Ha ha ha Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: about how much we hate Earl Grey tea and Mike Jones (he/him): Days. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: how it smells like a fucking flower, and I don't want it. So no. But coffee, Lanita (she/her): Even with milk and honey? Yeah. Little milk and honey num delicious. Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I love coffee, but I can't drink a black. Only really cool people can drink it black, and I'm not cool enough, so I Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah, I can't do it either. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: can't. So I guess I'll take the Racticino. But I have a Janeway Mike Jones (he/him): Ooh. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: coffee mug that I have my coffee in every morning, the Damizzon: Okay. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: silver, the Voyager mug. Mike Jones (he/him): Nice. if you had a replicator sitting next to you right now, what would you make with it? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I would ask it to make ice cream that has all the nutrition of broccoli. Mike Jones (he/him): Yes. That is that's how it works. Lanita (she/her): Wow, so specific and brilliant. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I have thought about this a lot Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: because I'm always asking Tony, I'm like, so when you're doing the replicator, could you say like make French fries but make it as healthy as chicken soup? Like can you put the nutritional Damizzon: Why not? Mike Jones (he/him): Right. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: value of other items into this item so that I can have only French fries all the time? Lanita (she/her): But here's the thing, are the French fries even unhealthy because they're replicated? It's not like they're fried, they're atoms put together. Mike Jones (he/him): Replicated Grease. Lanita (she/her): I don't know. I feel like replicated food isn't even really food. It's made up, disappears. I mean Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Well Discovery said it was made of poop. Mike Jones (he/him): Right, right, Damizzon: Yes, we did Mike Jones (he/him): right. It's like you're eating our shit, you know. Damizzon: we did cover that. Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: But I always I Mike Jones (he/him): awkward. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: was like, that's the s the food science we need, right? Is to Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: make things that taste good actually good for you. Lanita (she/her): Yes. Mike Jones (he/him): Yes, amen. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And then nobody would ever have kale again. Would be over. Lanita (she/her): I enjoy kale. I'd still have kale. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Actually baby kale is okay, you know the baby kale? Mike Jones (he/him): Freak. Lanita (she/her): I like all the kale. Damizzon: We make we make a kale pesto that is delicious and it's a pound of kale and it just tastes bright and fresh. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: yeah, no, no. Yeah, no. Well no. Lanita (she/her): Nobody's pe n no pesto, thank you. Mike Jones (he/him): Who's your Star Trek bartender? Gaynan or Quark? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Gainen. You know, 'cause we could talk about everything. And sh and she would listen and I could just talk Mike Jones (he/him): Exactly. She listens and she tends bar. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: and talk and talk. Then she would say something really wise and then she'd be quiet and I could talk for another twenty five minutes. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Lanita (she/her): Ha ha Mike Jones (he/him): are you on Team Tasha or Team Armas? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I mean Team Tasha. How could you be on Team Armus? Although I just Lanita (she/her): Easy, very, very easy. Mike Jones (he/him): We have a whole episode about it. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I I just got an email from someone I had met at Star Trek Las Vegas. And I think the first time we met her, she was dressed as Sexy Armis. So she reminded Mike Jones (he/him): my gosh. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: me in the email, she was like in brackets next to her name, Sexy Armis, just so I would remember who she was. She took great pictures with Denise Crosby, by the way. Fantastic photos with her. Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Sexy words. Damizzon: Ha ha ha. Lanita (she/her): Perfect. Perfection. I need to be her friend. Mike Jones (he/him): I bet. Damizzon: w we we have a longstanding obsession with both Tasha Yar and Armis, so that is how could we not? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: How could you not? I mean Lanita (she/her): Yes. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Armus was Armus. But are you not fans of Dashi R? Damizzon: I I know, it this Lanita (she/her): No, they are. Those two gay boys are. I am not. Damizzon: is actually yeah, I t I mean she was my gay icon, you know, like I think I think that it was you know, and I this I think this is not uncommon among whatever my like sort of like forty

something gay male demographic is to to have looked at her as seeing like an action hero that was something other than like a white guy, you know, and and yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Right? Like Wonder Woman. Like, you know, like like she could be powerful. but then Lenita, seeing this character as an adult, saw all the flaws. and ultimately her character improved after she died. Damizzon: Yes. And and Lenita and I will we have the we have the one probably most offensive cosplay that we can come up with where I actually have a a friend of mine who has literally the same body as me is an expert tailor and has made the gold jumpsuit. And I've about the hair to do it, so I would go as a Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yep. Damizzon: Tasha. Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Damizzon: And Lenita might get a Jerry Coral wig and a pink ruched and we might have our our our what are what are those like fists with spikes on them that and do coat coat of honor. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Damizzon: Code of honor. Lanita (she/her): Code of honor. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Please do it. Please do it. And send me all the pictures and make videos, film things. You have to do it. It's so good. And nobody would be mad Lanita (she/her): Literally the most offensive mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So good it's bad. Mike Jones (he/him): Just need some Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: because we all know that episode is just like the worst. Yeah. Yeah. Damizzon: Yes. Yeah. So that's where that's Lanita (she/her): Worst. Yep. Mike Jones (he/him): We are right, exactly. Damizzon: where we're coming from. All right. So Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Like the actors bring it up all the time. Like if you're like, you Mike Jones (he/him): Do Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: know, you guys sometimes and Gates McFadden will be like Code of Honor. Like Lanita (she/her): Ha ha ha ha! Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: It's amazing Lanita (she/her): Good. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: that got on air, let alone got past everybody and was filmed. Damizzon: I that is a n that's another s document, Mike Jones (he/him): It is. Damizzon: that is another study that someone needs to do. Like how how did that happen? And also it's like everything was so Lanita (she/her): Yep. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yes Yes. Damizzon: new, people were probably just afraid for their jobs, I'm sure, but like how? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. No, that was a volatile time in the show and a and they were probably desperate for scripts and all that stuff. But like, wow. Damizzon: Also, whole Lanita (she/her): Takes it sure. Damizzon: whole different whole different you know, if they shot the same script and like cast them as like prosthetic aliens and you know, it would have been a whole different deal. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: They yeah. It still had flaws even even beyond the insane racism. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Still wouldn't have been good. Damizzon: Yeah, yeah, I'm not I'm not trying to say it would have been good, but Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: just the whole thing of like, Tasha, Mike Jones (he/him): Against lizards. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: you like that he kidnapped you, didn't you? Like that whole thing was bad and yeah. Lanita (she/her): Yep. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Bad. Mike Jones (he/him): okay, few more. Lanita (she/her): Ha ha ha. Mike Jones (he/him): these are new questions that Damien came up with. Ron Moore Lanita (she/her): Ooh. Mike Jones (he/him): or Brandon Braga? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: interesting. That is I have there are things I love about both, and then they and Brandon Braga loves horror, which I don't, and Ron Moore loves Klingons, which I'm not as excited about. So it's a tough call. They both contributed so many things that I love, and Brandon was deeply involved in Voyager, which is my baby. but I might go with Ron Moore just because of for all mankind. Damizzon: Which Mike Jones (he/him): Mm. Damizzon: by the way, I literally Lanita (she/her): Okay. Damizzon: j I I'm like, what show do I need to I had like a day on Sunday. What show do I wanna start? I watched the first episode. So Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Isn't that first episode mind blowingly good? Yeah. Damizzon: So good. So good. The way that you the perception shifted the beginning. Yeah, pfft, really good. Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Such a great Yeah. Lanita (she/her): Okay, great. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: That first season was like a Lanita (she/her): Now I gotta add some more. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: That first season especially Mike Jones (he/him): Add it to the list. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: will just blow you away. Really great. Damizzon: Okay. Alright, I will watch episode two. I w it wasn't a question, Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yes, keep going. Damizzon: but yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): what's your favorite song from Subspace Rhapsody? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: See it depends what mood I'm in and what I need in the moment. You know? Lanita (she/her): K you're sad. Mike Jones (he/him): Like good musical theater does. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: If I'm sad, I want. Lanita (she/her): And you want to stay in your sadness. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: If I'm sad and I want to say my sadness, I it's either Laan song or Spox. Right? If I feel Mike Jones (he/him): The X. Lanita (she/her): What if Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: like hopeful and like the world is my oyster, then it's chapel song. And then Uhura's song is if I if I'm sad but I want to feel better. Lanita (she/her): Mm-kay. Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And I did, that song did make me cry a couple times, like when I first. Heard it. I started I did actually singing it myself, I would cry because it just gets you in this emotional spot, which I was very lucky that I was able to tell the songwriters that, which is nice because I Mike Jones (he/him): That's awesome. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: love those guys and was always scheming to get them on my podcast and into Trek Talks and like whatever

I Damizzon: Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: can do to bring them in. I'm bringing them in. Because their whole process, I don't know if you've del d delved into this, but the way that Tom sat with them. to get to figure out the songs and what they should be and then went back to K and then they put it together was just an amazing, beautiful creative process. And it's wild those songs are so good. Cause they're all based truly in characters like musicals have growth from the beginning Damizzon: Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: of the song to the Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: end of the song. So yeah, just great, great stuff. Mike Jones (he/him): Okay. favorite Star Trek writer? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: That is a really good question. Well, and also the the hard part too Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah, that's a hard question. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: is that you don't always know because whose name is on it. I mean, Damizzon: Sure. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: there's such contributions and Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: you never know who contributed what. Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: So I don't know if I could single out an individual person for that. But I would say I guess this, you know, if I'm looking at a series that has the least chance of me going, I don't feel like watching the Okay, like so Pluto, do you guys watch Pluto TV that has all those Star Trek channels? So, you know, I'll check and I'll see. And so I would say like the one that's most likely that I'm gonna just be like, Okay, whatever's coming is gonna be fine will be the Voyager channel, probably. Mike Jones (he/him): yeah. a favorite Star Trek director. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I mean, I love me some Frakes. I love me some David Livingston. And Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: also because I've gotten I've had the privilege of talking to him in detail about specific episodes. Where Lanita (she/her): Hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): that's awesome. Damizzon: That's really cool. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: he was really able to describe like how he did it and why he did it and choices he made. So maybe that's. I mean, Frakes, I forg I'm I've forgiven him, kinda, for the Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha. Damizzon: For the one for the one errant episode. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: But he br he brought so much to so many other other episodes. Mike Jones (he/him): yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah, yeah. In films. Is Star Trek fandom a cult? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And it's only not because Star Trek fans are not a monolith, right? And Star Trek fans, as you know, when I like when people are talking about this new era and they go, like, what do fans want? I'm like, there's no answer to that because what I want is different from what each of you wants, which is different from what my Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: podcast co-host wants, totally different things. Everybody has something different and what they think is Star Trek. And I Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: like Even you have a canon conversation, I'll be well, I don't like when they break canon and someone go, Yeah, like the nacelles were the wrong size. And I'm like, I don't give a shit about that. Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha ha. Damizzon: Ha ha Lanita (she/her): Hehehehe Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Right? And so, and for Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: some people, it's the science is wrong. So screw like it's Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: so Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: everybody wants something different. Everybody likes a different character. And so in that way, it's not a cult because in a cult, everybody believes the same thing. And we don't believe Mike Jones (he/him): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: the same thing and we don't like the same thing. And that's also because of the vast variety of Star Trek that there are, too. So I would say not a cult, but it sure looks like went to somebody else. And if my husband Damizzon: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: ever saw, ever went to he's never going to a convention with me, but my God. He would just be so scared and see it all as a cult and just be terrified. Like, yeah, just what is happening? Mike Jones (he/him): From the outside. Damizzon: Mm-hmm. What is happening? Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Lanita (she/her): People loving TV that's been on forever. Mike Jones (he/him): Right. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. No Lanita (she/her): A franchise that speaks to us all in different ways but the same. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And a bunch of us are still talking about an episode that was, you know, released in nineteen sixty seven. So Lanita (she/her): Correct. Mike Jones (he/him): Right. And how terrible it was, or you know what I mean? Like or how phenomenal it was, right? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Or how phenomenal, how groundbreaking it was. Yeah, yeah. Lanita (she/her): How gonna look what? Mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): last question, who's your captain? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: See again it depends what my mood is. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Damizzon: I feel I feel like that is the treckiest answer Lanita (she/her): Well what's your mood today? So who's your captain today? Damizzon: that we've gotten because there's so many people who just like know it, but like that is Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Yes. Damizzon: you have a breath of love. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I mean, I would say I have like three top ones, but Lanita (she/her): Okay. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: you know, it does just depend. It just does on whatever's going on. I mean, Kirk to me was so perfect, right? As a kid, as a young girl, as a Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: role model. I mean, I

like Spock I identified with, but Kirk just as a leader, there was something about him because he had this de this emotional depth, you know, he wasn't just some Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: like tough Guy. And then Picard, of course, represented this whole intellectual thing, which was so great, right? Like Kirk was also intellectual, but it was a different sort of measured, Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: different thing. And then Janeway brings in this the emotion of it. If I can plug my own work for a minute, I wrote a chapter Lanita (she/her): Please. Mike Jones (he/him): Please. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: in an academic book about leadership through a Star Trek lens called Second Lanita (she/her): Hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Star to the Right. And I wrote about Janeway's emotions. And I wrote about how women, we I was always brought up, not brought up by my family, but brought up in the world to believe that emotions are a weakness, that emotions are bad for a leader. And what Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I saw in Janeway, which was the truth that I knew in my heart, but thought what was always being told it wasn't true, which is that emotions are our strength, and that you use emotions to be wise and to make good decisions and to deal with people properly. Now, Kirk, I think Kirk did that actually. But Janeway made it part of her leadership to do that. Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And she had those conversations with people about their growth, about learning what they could from something, about the complexity of a situation. And so those are like they all brought in something different. And Janeway happened as I was starting to take on my first leadership roles professionally too. And so then Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I was and I made a lot of mistakes. And sometimes too far in one direction of thinking I should be people's buddy Damizzon: Mm. Lanita (she/her): Mm. Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: when I shouldn't. And I made and I yeah, really bad mistakes, but then learned more. And so I here's okay, how's this? I was I'd gotten my first very big sort of fancy job, money like an executive level, whatever job. And so on that they on my first day, I think they sent me in to talk to all these people, and there's a guy they said he's the head of of all things. Enterprises, it was called, which meant the businesses of things. And he's this very intimidating, like old school white guy in the big chair, whatever. And I'm sitting there and he starts describing, he goes, Well, since you're gonna lead the team, here's the leader that here's the kind of leader I think you should be. And he starts describing this. And even though it's my first day and I'm very nervous, I just go, You know who you just described? And I said, Jean-Luc Picard. And instead of saying who He said, I

love Picard. Damizzon: Ha ha ha. Mike Jones (he/him): nice. Lanita (she/her): Ha ha ha ha. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: So it's hard to have a favorite when you have those. You know? It's hard because there Mike Jones (he/him): Absolutely. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: are so many good ones. And like Holly Hunter brought in something totally new and wonderful that I'm like, Mike Jones (he/him): yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: relaxed captain. Well, that's interesting. Damizzon: Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: So, you know, Lanita (she/her): Ha ha ha ha. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: like that is a whole other ball game. And I've loved Holly Hunter for so long that I thought Damizzon: Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: it was a joke. I thought it was a joke when they cast, like that they were tricking me. Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Yeah, like Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha ha. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Personally. Lanita (she/her): yeah that they're like, Yeah, we're gonna bring this person on and you're like, No, you're not. They would they're not gonna do this. Mike Jones (he/him): It's Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I think right, Mike Jones (he/him): too good to be true. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I think I remember asking Alex, like, is she in every episode? He was like, She's the star of the show And I'm like, No, but really is she the star of the show? Like she's the real Lanita (she/her): In it in every episode, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: star of the show. my God. Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Amazing. Thank you so much for taking time to be here and and just gabbing with us. This has been amazing. No, this is this is exactly what we need. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I hope it wasn't too much I'm sorry, I feel like I talk a lot and whatever and Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Whoa no. No. We we we always want talk. We we love to talk and Damizzon: No, no, are you kidding me? It's gold. We love it. Lanita (she/her): and and Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: You guys are so fun. Are do you guys come to Vegas? Like will I see you there next year? Damizzon: We're always trying to mobilize to Vegas. We're Mike Jones (he/him): We've never done Vegas. Damizzon: we Treklong Island was like our little we're and we'll be it we'll be at Philadelphia in Yes. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I'll be in Philadelphia. Damizzon: Yes. In fact excellent, Lanita (she/her): Yay. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Check movies coming. There's a bunch of us coming. Damizzon: excellent. Yeah, Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Damizzon: it's funny because we I definitely like w when we when we saw your panel at Truck Long Island, this was now like probably year before last one that I'd mentioned, I was I was very eager to come up and introduce and somehow we all got sidetracked. So I'm I hope that we can all meet in person. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: That's my favorite thing about all these conventions, which I never knew because I never used to go to them,

is the community is amazing. And you just there are people that you know but you don't know. Damizzon: Yes. Lanita (she/her): Mm. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And so then you get to actually meet them and talk to them and see them in person. Everybody stopping and introducing themselves to each other. Like it is just this whole amazing, diverse, beautiful community of all different people. And I never thought that it would be such a comfortable place. Damizzon: It is. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: To be I'm not the most comfortable person in groups and crowds. I'm not I don't go to parties 'cause like and so but the fact Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah, me either. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: that you can walk around one of those conventions, you can go in alone if you don't know Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: anybody Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: and you're gonna have great conversations with all different people and people are just open and excited and happy to talk about it and wearing wacky things and it's really fun. Yeah. Damizzon: Mm-hmm. Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): And it's a diverse group, the conventions. It's it's a it's again, not a monolith. There's all kinds of people there. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: yeah. Damizzon: Well and and we Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah, yeah. Damizzon: say this a lot though we Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah, look who Damizzon: had we hadn't especially Mike Mike and I had no idea how many queer people there were that were to Star Trek. And then it's like you go to Chiklong Mike Jones (he/him): Right? Damizzon: Island and you're like, Where are the straight people? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Track Long Island is Mike Jones (he/him): It's Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: especially great about that. Damizzon: Mm. Yes. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: but I do think that because of these because of this new era, then they're embracing I mean, look at Kareem who's like on stage saying, well if you wanna know about Star Trek or Starfleet Academy season two, it's gayer. Like Damizzon: Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Right. Damizzon: Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And and then and he said, you know what? And it I think actually I th he may have said this in my interview, which hasn't come out yet, so sneak peek. I'm not sure if that's where he said it. But I think he said, like, so if you like the gay stuff you'll be really happy and if you don't like it, you're gonna be really upset. Mike Jones (he/him): Yes. Damizzon: Ha ha ha ha ha ha Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: But like create places for everybody to have those conversations because despite like whatever was going on with Rick Berman being afraid to dig into those stories, they're Lanita (she/her): Mm. Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: still it's in there. If you look, it's in Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: there. And and I think that their characters, as you brought up, like Tasha, people look at Kira, people look at Dax, they, you know, and so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Lanita (she/her): yeah. Kira power lesbian. But bisex Mike Jones (he/him): Mm-hmm. Lanita (she/her): bisexual, 'cause you know, she at least had the Vedic, but you know, I don't really think so. I think that was just a one-off. Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha ha. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Well he was he was lame. Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha ha. Damizzon: Yeah, Kira never had I mean, until I guess w no. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: She never got a good boyfriend. No. Lanita (she/her): Because she was trying to force it. She just should have leaned in and found her a nice Dabo girl and been fine. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Maybe that was the problem. Maybe that was the problem. Mike Jones (he/him): my gosh. Damizzon: Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: But yeah, so like I'd yeah, it'd be great to see you. I mean, we've made there's so many podcast people I've made friends with too. Like the sal do you guys know the salon? Damizzon: We have just no salon track is I bl has just sort of popped up on our radar, Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yes. Damizzon: yes. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yes, you need to Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: get to know their wonderful and they do they actually work with Trek movies. So we have some of them write articles for us. We Mike Jones (he/him): nice. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: we and we met those guys through fandom, through walking around Vegas and Trev just saw us sitting at a table and was like, Trek movie, I love Trek Movie, and came up to talk to us. A friendship was born. That's how stuff happens. Mike Jones (he/him): Amazing. Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: So and what they're doing Damizzon: I love it. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: is is great. Like really they're phenomenal and fun to listen to. Damizzon: Yes. And of course we love the sci-fi sisters. Like we had you know, we somehow Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yes. Damizzon: got an email from Yvette to be like, Would you like to collab well? Yes. Yes, yes, yeah. And so we had Sabrina on and we did we did Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. they're the best. Yeah. Damizzon: she basically was like we she took us to film school. I was like, Show us a movie, show us a movie that you think a Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah, she's she. Damizzon: Trekkie would love. And she wrote back in three minutes with a movie and we I Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yes, of course she did. Damizzon: I think we probably talked to her for three hours and Mike Jones (he/him): Mm. It was great. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: She Lanita (she/her): It was great. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: was a really unique person and was meant to be a film director and should have been a film director Damizzon: as Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: because her eye and

her knowledge of film and her really informed artistic approach to how she talked about all of those things. And I love the Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: sisters. We've been lucky. Usually we're next to them on red carpets. They Damizzon: Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: usually put us together or if we can, we try to rearrange things for us to be together. Lanita (she/her): With swap. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: So and we're now doing a monthly segment with them on their live show, Tony and I talk doing Star Trek News with them. Trek News Lanita (she/her): Ooh. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Tuesdays, the last Tuesday of the month. Mike Jones (he/him): Nice. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And we've always tried to ask, you know, whoever they can spare to come over for our end of year wrap up. We've always tried to get one of them. and we did have Sabrina one year, which was great. So yeah, they are what they've done. Sorry, I know I'm still talking, we're trying to wrap it up. But what they've done, what they have a what Damizzon: No, no, no, we don't care. We d we're no we're trying to respect your time, so if you're it's all right. Lanita (she/her): No no we're not. Laurie, talk. You keep talking. Mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): You've been Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I know, I'm like, my poor husband. Hello. Damizzon: Ha ha ha. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: but what they have done in a short amount of time, truly a short amount of time, is extraordinary. And the relationships they've built, first of all, they provided, they're there for a community that was grossly underserved. Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And they serve everybody, right? Like Damizzon: Yes. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: there's nobody who's left out of their, there's nobody who Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: wouldn't qualify as their audience. And the reputation that they've built up with the professionals who make Trek, the actors and the behind the scenes people, they and now they're doing it because they branched out into other shows because they're really into sci fi. As soon as someone does an interview with them, they want to come back and do another one. And when I'm interviewing somebody, I always go into their catalog and I go, Did they talk to this person? 'Cause I'm gonna learn what this person who this person is. No, it's not about their Lanita (she/her): Hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: answers. If I wanna know who they are. When I interview someone, it's usually to get news, it's a different approach. But I like to know who they are and the sisters That's how you know who they are. Damizzon: Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Amazing conversations. Damizzon: Really. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And their own Mike Jones (he/him): So great. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: insights are great and hilarious and smart and yeah. Damizzon: Well and it's true. I think I because I think sometimes Mike Jones

(he/him): You even Damizzon: we default to like, my god, thank you so much for joining us. We're so honored to have you with us and w they're that sure, they may say that, but they you know, they're interviewing these very like high up creatives and the entire they they understand that of course they should be there. Do you know what I mean? That is what I take away from Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yes. Damizzon: them. I was like, yeah, like they are they go into these conversations knowing that they belong on their podcast. That that that they're everyone Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yes. Damizzon: is where they should be. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yes. And if you've ever watched Mike Jones (he/him): yeah, yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Tamiya, moderating panels on stage, she is I've learned so much from just watching her and asking her for advice, but also watching her. I learn a ton from her. And she imparts confidence into other people. She's given me a lot of confidence by telling Damizzon: Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: me. Like she's like, you don't need to write out your questions. She's like, do bullet points. You know how to phrase something. You've already phrased it. You don't need to write it down like, she's she's right. Yeah. Yeah. Damizzon: Yeah. No, we we were w we went to their sort of their the mixer, they called it at Truck Long Island, and afterwards we sort of caught Tamiya and she was very so generous with like advice in a way that was like actually like Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yes. Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Yes. Damizzon: truly meaningful and like and not like sometimes it ca that that can come off as you know unsolicited advice you know but it was really thoughtful Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: no, I was soliciting. Mike Jones (he/him): Not at all. Yeah, absolutely. Please help. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Yeah. Damizzon: And are you kidding me? We are very we were nothing we were very solicitous. Lanita (she/her): Ha ha ha. Damizzon: Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah, I'm like, you give me all you got, baby. Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Also, we're birthday twinsies. We share a birthday, me and Timmy S, so we're always very happy. March twenty third, best day of the year. Lanita (she/her): Ooh, what's that? What birthday is Nah, Mike Jones (he/him): Nice. Damizzon: No, yes. Lanita (she/her): I I'd have to fight you for February seventeenth, but you know, you're the guest, so I'll Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Best day best day of the year Yeah. That's the treat yourself day Mike Jones (he/him): That's awesome. Teach yourself. Well, it's you know, it's interesting, even though we started out this episode talking about how we're going into this kind of, you know, fallow period of there's nothing on the horizon after you know, the Strange New Worlds and Academy that we have coming. but really I think we're gonna be filling all that with the community that we have. Like there's so many podcasts, there's so many conversations, there's so many relationships and friendships to to have. Like, even though there's not gonna be new stuff on TV for a little while, I think that it's still a a rich time to be a Trekkie. Okay. No. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: All right, I'm gonna ask you guys a question and then I'll promise to go away. Damizzon: Hm. No. Lanita (she/her): Mm No, no, don't go. Stay, stay forever. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: do you prefer Star Trek as movies or Star Trek as a TV? Where do you think is the better place for Star Trek? Damizzon: T V. T V. T hands without Mike Jones (he/him): T V Damizzon: it and without hesitation. T V. Because I feel like Lanita (she/her): With a movie thrown in every now and then because you can do bigger, bolder things on the TV, but you on the movie screen, but you do but I think that more story can be told on TV if you give the episodes, if you go back to the yesterday's of twenty two to twenty four episodes. Damizzon: I also think that so much of Star Trek to me, when I love it the most, is about the ensemble and is about Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Damizzon: in a way where I mean we're we're doing first contact with a friend of ours on her podcast next week. And so we're having just rewatched that, love that movie. Love it, love, love it. But y the ensemble really fades away into the background and that is w what I miss and that is To me that you know, we all talk about what Star Trek is to us. Like to me it is the family. It's it's a it's a chosen family story. And when that chosen family fades into the background is when I sort of when it loses something for me. Mike Jones (he/him): Totally. Well, I th my the thing about the films is films are often written with a big bad, you know, like there's some main antagonist and my favorite Star Trek stories don't have a con or like some big, you know, evil person. They're more introspective, interesting stories. Like the first film, like the motion picture, really. It's the most Star Trek of all the Trek films in my opinion, because it doesn't I I love the motion picture. Damien's making a face. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. I I love it too. I Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: love it too, but it's so tied to like seeing it when there had been this huge gap of no Star Damizzon: For sure. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Trek. And I never thought Star Trek was coming back. And as this little kid, so I wasn't reading the trades. I mean, I didn't know anything Damizzon: Ha ha ha Mike Jones (he/him): Right. Lanita (she/her): Hehehehehe Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: of what was going on until I saw this comic book that had an ad for the movie on the back, and I was like, And then, you know, what every minute of that like as slow as it was was perfect for me because I was like, look, it's McCoy. You know, like just Yes, Disco McCoy and his salty commentary. The

best. Damizzon: I can forgive anything for disco macoy. Disco McCoy makes the entire like that's yeah, yeah. Mad as hell. Yeah. Lanita (she/her): Yes. Mike Jones (he/him): Yes. Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): Ha ha. Damizzon: Yep. Mike Jones (he/him): All right. Well, we will let you go. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. Sorry. Lanita (she/her): We don't have to though. I mean I feel like there's so much more we could do Yes. Damizzon: No, you you're community is alive and well. I r you're giving us that reminder. Mike Jones (he/him): I know we've taken so much of your time. Yes. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Yeah. So I need community with my husband now. So Mike Jones (he/him): Yes. Damizzon: Yes. Lanita (she/her): Yes. Yes. Mike Jones (he/him): Exactly. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Go get high and watch some Star Trek. Damizzon: Yep, that's what I'm about to do. Lanita (she/her): There it is. Mike Jones (he/him): other than Trek movie, are there other places where folks can find you or anything you'd like to plug? Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I'm on the socials. I'm on primarily Blue Sky is my place to hang out. I am on Instagram, but ha I have more things to say than I have pictures to show. So Yeah, Mike Jones (he/him): Such a writer. Damizzon: Yes. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I'm not so good with the visuals. I try. I mean it's why I a little Riker and I take pictures of them everywhere. But Mike Jones (he/him): yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: so I would say that. I do I have a website, but that's just for my professionals just laurelster.com so people can see. Whatever I've been doing, I'll put up new books if I've written a book or if I've done something else. but primarily Trek movie is the place to go. And I'm also writing, let me plug something. I am writing Mike Jones (he/him): Awesome. Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: scripts for Roddenberry Damizzon: Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: for this very fun show called Ranking with Roddenberry, hosted by Jessica Lynn Verdi, who is she's an actress and comedian. She's very funny and talented. And I've been writing these scripts that are ranking with these crazy ranks that you kind of make up in your head. I mean, yes, it's like ensign lieutenant, whatever, but the criteria, let's just say, is a little loose and creative. And I got to write I think I have three already out, so I did musical moments and I did not. Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I disqualified Subspace Rhapsody at the very beginning because it was so perfect that we had to pick Mike Jones (he/him): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: other ones. Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: I did one about ca I get Captain Kirk, what I was talking about before, about the depth of Captain Kirk. And then one about the animated series that just came out this week about how it's not really for kids because the concepts are very adult, which was meant Damizzon: No, it's not Lanita (she/her): It is not. Mike Jones (he/him): Absolutely. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: to be funny. And Jessica delivers, but then a lot of the comments were like, when I was a kid, it was fine and we weren't afraid of it. I'm like, okay. Mike Jones (he/him): Okay. Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: And I'm working on a bunch of them. I just I just delivered one. I don't think she'd be mad if I said hopefully not. I delivered one about monologues. And Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: my one I'm working on now, spoiler alert, bad parties in Star Trek. Damizzon: Mm. Mike Jones (he/him): Parties Ooh Lanita (she/her): You wanna know the worst party? Mike Jones (he/him): I like that. Lanita (she/her): I'll tell you the worst party. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: What's the worst party? Let's see if I I'll just tell you if I included it or not. Lanita (she/her): I mean we I don't know if we can consider it a party. Name the episode of Why I Hate Tasha Yar. What's the episode's name? Mike Damizzon: the naked now. Lanita (she/her): Jones, thank you. Worst party ever. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: yeah, that's not really a par I mean like it's a party. Like they throw a party and it's bad. And it's bad. They are doing Lanita (she/her): Mm, mm, mhm, mhm, mm. Damizzon: You mean in the literal sense, yes, yes. Mike Jones (he/him): It's bad. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: one that's good parties, which someone else is writing. My friend Jay Stoby is writing that one. So but yeah. But the topics are fun. They Lanita (she/her): Yes. Damizzon: But bad parties is funnier. Mike Jones (he/him): Nice. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: range from like really good like intense serious topics Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Two really playful fun ones. Jessica comes up with a lot of them. It's fun working with those guys and it's really fun seeing how they their editing is Damizzon: that's fun. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: fantastic and they really make fun, fun videos. So that's called the Beam channel, I think it's called on YouTube. But if you type ranking Lanita (she/her): Mm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: with Roddenberry, YouTube, it'll come up. Mike Jones (he/him): Awesome. We'll check it out. I know. Lanita (she/her): So much to watch after this chat we're having. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: Watch the musicals one. It's that's the my my first script I did for her. I'm so I watched it like the whole time I watched it, I was going with this big happy grin on my face because I was Lanita (she/her): Yeah. Mike Jones (he/him): That's awesome. Damizzon: Ha Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: like, You did it! You did what I wanted Like it's Lanita (she/her): Hmm. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: so fun and good and just digs into Lanita (she/her): it's happening. Laurie Ulster - TrekMovie: so many of the s their songs in every Star Trek. Every single one has songs. They all do. Mike Jones (he/him): Awesome. Lanita (she/her): It's happening. I'm loading that up right now. Go ahead, Mike Jones, close the show. Mike Jones (he/him): All right. This has been amazing. Thank you, Damien Lanita, as always, for being my co-host. Thank you, Damien, for leading the charge in this episode. And thank you, Lanita (she/her): Mm-hmm. Mike Jones (he/him): dear listener. if you have enjoyed what you've heard, make sure you give us a five-star review wherever you get your podcast. You can find us on all the socials at hailing freak open. And with that, I will say hailing frequencies closed.