Full Transcript for 173. Novak Djokovic

00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:25.759 I need to ask you something. 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:29.120 Is it good for my tennis if I go and have a beer or a glass of wine? 00:04:29.279 --> 00:04:32.800 Hortoff replied, Listen, you can do it if you feel like it. 00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:35.600 You've worked very hard for weeks and you need to relax. 00:04:35.759 --> 00:04:36.480 There's no problem. 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:41.439 Djokovic's response was astonishing for a teenager who was not in that elite world. 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:44.319 I don't mean any disrespect, but I didn't ask for your permission. 00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:47.600 I asked if this was good for my tennis. 00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:55.360 For all of his life, even today, Djokovic has lived really in service of his craft, in service of tennis. 00:04:55.680 --> 00:05:04.160 And basically anything and everything, from small decisions to big decisions, has always come back to can this make him a better tennis player? 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:06.399 That's how he lived and structured his entire life. 00:05:06.560 --> 00:05:16.160 And there's this great line, I brought this up from Stephen Pressfield, and he says this the working artist will not tolerate trouble in her life because she knows trouble prevents her from doing her work. 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:19.040 I think we've seen this approach with like a lot of athletes we've covered. 00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:21.279 We saw it with Cristiano Ronaldo, who didn't tolerate trouble. 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:24.160 We we saw with with Derek Jeter in episode 116. 00:05:24.319 --> 00:05:33.360 The coach, Sir Alex Ferguson, did a very similar thing where he was a big proponent of not doing anything that would compromise his ability to coach, and he would he would preach that to his players as well. 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:39.120 And the the more I think about it, I think this is actually like a really good way to get better at living. 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:41.120 There's this line Djokovic has that I love. 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:44.079 He says, get good at living and you will become a better tennis player. 00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:46.800 Get good at living and you will become a better tennis player. 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:56.160 Something I filter like a lot of my own decisions through in my life is whether this thing will allow me to get better at my own craft. 00:05:56.319 --> 00:06:02.319 Like, will this or will that make me a better writer or podcaster or storyteller? 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:04.720 Or just better simply at the work I do. 00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:09.199 And I don't think like every decision needs to be in service of the work. 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:16.800 But when you make decisions that are in service of the work or are in service of the craft, I think what you start to see is you start to make just healthier, healthier decisions. 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:18.480 By living through the work, you live better. 00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:21.439 And by living better, your work eventually gets better as well. 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:25.519 As Djokovic said, get good at living and you will become a better tennis player. 00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:29.839 There's a sports psychologist we mentioned a bunch in last week's episode on Rafael Nadal. 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:31.920 Her name's Dario Obramovic. 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:33.920 And she said this on Djokovic. 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:40.319 It appears as though everything in Djokovic's life is arranged so that he can be the best possible player he can be. 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:50.399 And his biographer writes this one of his superpowers is optimizing his life, including through his routine and with the people he has around him, to ensure he's producing the best possible tennis he can. 00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:55.040 And Djokovic has always been asking this question, the question of how will this help my tennis? 00:06:55.279 --> 00:06:59.279 Because from a very, very young age, he had two very simple goals. 00:06:59.439 --> 00:07:05.600 One, he wanted to win the most historic tournament in tennis, which is Wimbledon, and he wanted to become the number one player in the world. 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:12.160 And the way to push those odds in his favor from the start was to do everything in service of the game. 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:18.079 Djokovic once told a longtime friend of his, I mentioned him earlier, Jenko Tipserevich. 00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:26.480 He said this when you set yourself a goal and you're determined to do it from the beginning, it has to be that every decision you make ultimately has to help you reach your goal. 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:34.160 And Tipserevich said himself, if Novak decides to do something, he has this ability to essentially put his life on hold for the greater goal. 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:35.839 That means nothing else is important. 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:38.399 We make hundreds, if not thousands, of decisions every day. 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:46.959 Every single small decision that Novak makes on a daily basis, he asks himself whether doing this is ultimately ultimately going to help him achieve his goal or not. 00:07:47.120 --> 00:08:00.079 There's actually this line from Djokovic where he says, in order for you to thrive and be at the maximum of your abilities, you have to literally transform every part of your life outside of the tennis court to be in service to the tennis court. 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:02.240 And that has consequences. 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:07.680 Djokovic, for all of his life, has put the game of tennis at the forefront. 00:08:07.839 --> 00:08:15.519 And he would reap the rewards of that, but he would also have to deal with the consequences of living in service of one thing for your entire life. 00:08:15.680 --> 00:08:20.160 And then one of Djokovic's former coaches, Dusin Vemek, I mentioned him earlier. 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:21.519 He said, There are no gaps. 00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:24.160 He's so

meticulous with his lifestyle and his daily routines. 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:27.199 It's not the case of Novak saying, today I feel like it and I'll do it. 00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:29.360 And tomorrow when I don't feel like it, I won't do it. 00:08:29.519 --> 00:08:31.920 He lives it every single day. 00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:41.679 There's this thing we mentioned a couple months ago on Haruki Murakami in his episode 165 on basically his ability to run every day for decades. 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:44.720 And he has this like motto he kind of lives by, and I really like it. 00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:49.360 So Murakami writes this, and he's talking about running, running every single day. 00:08:49.519 --> 00:08:52.240 To continue one habit that long requires a great deal of effort. 00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:53.600 How have I been able to do it? 00:08:53.759 --> 00:09:00.720 It's because I feel like the act of running represents concretely and succinctly some of the things I have to do in this life. 00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:02.480 I have that sort of general sense. 00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:10.960 So even on days when I think I'm not feeling so great and I don't feel like running, I tell myself, no matter what, this is something I have to do in my life. 00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:14.480 And I go out and run without ascribing a logical reason for it. 00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:20.320 That sentence, but she said, no matter what, this is something I have to do in my life, has become a kind of mantra for me. 00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:24.559 No matter what, this is something I have to do in my life. 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:36.159 And I think that's a perfect way to describe Djokovic's approach and views on training or eating certain eating certain foods or doing certain practices or basically anything that is in service of his game. 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:42.960 He thinks like Murakami, this is just something that I have to do in my life because I want to be the best tennis player that I can be. 00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:57.120 And this won't surprise anyone, but when it comes to his his training and preparation, he does basically everything he can to be better, whether it's working with the best coaches or trainers, whether it's focusing on the details or just preparing the right way. 00:09:57.279 --> 00:10:07.120 One of his superpowers is I mentioned this earlier, one of his superpowers is optimizing his life, including through his routine and with the people he has around him, to ensure he's producing the best possible tenants he can. 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:12.240 Novak always demands absolute focus from anyone he works with, said Jeb Hard Gritch, his trainer. 00:10:12.559 --> 00:10:16.240 Novak approaches every day wanting to get better, and this is necessary. 00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:19.600 He knows that he must make these changes and get better. 00:10:19.759 --> 00:10:23.440 His friend Dusin Lahovic, there's a lot of names in here that I might butcher. 00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:24.960 So just putting that at the forefront. 00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:30.000 His friend Dusan Lahovic said, Novak is constantly trying to become a better tennis player. 00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:31.279 It's constant effort from him. 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:34.960 If there's a way of improving his game by 1%, he's going to find it. 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:41.200 He's constantly searching for things that are going to diversify his game and will improve his overall characteristics as a player. 00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:43.440 Djokovic is forever reinventing himself. 00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:46.320 He must be on about the 20th upgrade by now. 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:47.600 I love that last line. 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:49.840 Djokovic is forever reinventing himself. 00:10:49.919 --> 00:10:52.879 He must be on about the 20th upgrade by now. 00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:56.559 Speak to anyone who has ever worked with Djokovic, and they will tell you he's a perfectionist. 00:10:56.639 --> 00:10:57.519 That's not a surprise at all. 00:10:57.600 --> 00:10:58.720 We see that with so many people we study. 00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:07.039 The level of detail when Novak gets ready for matches, the level of detail to get his body prepared, to make sure his game is there, to make sure the strokes are where they need to be. 00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:14.720 It's as a high, it's as high a level of perfectionism as I've ever seen in any sport, sh said Craig O'Shaughnessy, his future strategy coach. 00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:21.440 O'Shaughnessy recalled one morning at the Monte Carlo Country Club in December 2017, where Djokovic was doing his preseason training. 00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:24.240 Novak stretched and warmed up for an hour and a half. 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:28.639 I had never seen somebody prepare to practice how he did, going through so many exercises. 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:30.320 And then he practiced for two hours. 00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:36.159 What impresses me so much is his off-court dedication to making his body right and getting it ready for competition. 00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:42.159 I want to say this again because it defines so much of what we will talk about today. 00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:47.919 But everything Djokovic has done in his life comes back to the simple question of how will this help my tennis? 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:49.519 How will this help my tennis? 00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:50.960 If it helped it, he did it. 00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:53.440 If it hurt it, he avoided it at all costs. 00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:54.720 It was as simple as that. 00:11:54.960 --> 00:12:05.519 Now, if you listen to last week's episode on Rafael Nadal, I brought out this question at the beginning that's like always interesting to think about when it comes to these people we look at, these stories we look at. 00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:07.440 And it was, what were the odds? 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:08.399 What were the odds? 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:19.200 And if you know anything about

Djokovic, the odds for him were, I think, like about as unlikely as you can have because of where he was from and when he was born. 00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:41.519 His biographer Mark writes, going deep inside Novak Djokovic's basement bomb shelter, into the space where he spent many nights during the NATO bombings in 1999 is to feel as though you're dipping yourself into Yugoslav concrete, low concrete ceilings, concrete walls blotted with damp that seem as though they're crowding in on you, concrete floors, the air, and there isn't too much of it down here, even smells faintly of concrete. 00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:56.399 People talk about the Belgrade grayscape and about the concrete overload in some parts of the city, but nothing quite compares for you for the grayness and the starkness of this bunker beneath a brutalist apartment block in the Bajika neighborhood, a few miles south of Belgrade. 00:12:56.480 --> 00:13:00.080 And it's not just concrete, all cold, rough and unforgiving, that unsettles you. 00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:03.759 It's imagining how Djokovic and others would have felt inside this bunker. 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:08.639 There's a sense that this is somehow still a place of fear and confusion and gathering range. 00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:16.240 Rage, almost as if the concrete all around you absorbed some of those emotions, and now it's radiate, radiating them back at you. 00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:26.480 For Djokovic, who was 11 when NATO plans started pounding Serbia, this is where he felt fear and horror, where he was disturbed emotionally, not knowing what the next moment would bring for him. 00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:36.480 His two younger brothers, Marco and Dezorje, and his parents Sarjan and Dejana, this was the safest spot around, originally built as an atomic shelter in case of nuclear war. 00:13:36.639 --> 00:13:42.639 In the near darkness, Djokovic would stare his mother stare at his mother's face to understand how he should be feeling. 00:13:42.799 --> 00:13:47.440 If she looked scared, and she mostly did, then he knew he should be terrified too. 00:13:47.600 --> 00:14:01.840 So there there was this, it was described there, but there was this like 70, 80 day period in Djokovic's youth when his country of Serbia was bombed daily at night by NATO, killing thousands of citizens and causing all this havoc and destruction. 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:09.279 And it forced Novak and his family, whenever it did happen, to sprint and run for this bunker that he spent night after night after night in. 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:12.480 In his chilling phrase, Djokovic was surrounded by death. 00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:16.720 Outside that bunker, he has recalled Belgrade was glowing like a ripe tangerine. 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:20.639 The city either blacked out or lit up by NATO's jets, and nothing in between. 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:24.240 For 78 consecutive nights, the planes came, scattering their bombs. 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:31.360 When the sirens

started, the Djokovic family would scramble to get inside the bunker, which was in the basement of his grandfather Vladimir's apartment building. 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:35.759 And then there's this specific moment in Djokovic's life that he will never forget. 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:40.480 He's like eight, nine, ten years old, because of how close he felt like he was to dying. 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:50.799 Novak's most distressing memory is of one night during the first week of the bombing when around three in the morning, the sound of explosions near to the apartment and a breaking glass woke and startled the family. 00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:55.919 Quickly getting to her feet, Novak's mother bashed her head against a radiator and knocked herself out. 00:14:56.080 --> 00:15:00.240 For what seemed like an age, but might have only been a few seconds, she was out cold on the floor. 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:02.799 All three Jokovitch brothers were crying. 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:07.279 When she came to life, the family tried to find their way to the shelter, but they could hardly see. 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:17.840 There was no lighting and the streets were filled with smoke, and with the sound of the planes and the explosions, it was so loud they could they couldn't hear each other, even when they were only centimeters apart, and screaming in each other's ears. 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:31.039 Overwhelmed to panicking, Novak slipped on a stone, and as he scraped his hands and knees and fell to the ground, he looked up and saw a gray steel triangle, which he later realized was a F-117 stealth bomber tearing across the sky. 00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:38.799 It's an image that has always stayed with him, the deathly triangle coming from nowhere and unleashing rockets at a hospital just a couple of blocks away. 00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:43.519 With its horizontal design, the hospital had become a giant club sandwich stuffed with fire. 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:46.240 Djokovic thought he was going to die. 00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:51.919 A moment later, the jet was gone, and the Djokovic family continued to the shelter. 00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:54.720 And like, that that that's chilling, first of all. 00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:58.080 But like remember, Djokovic is like 12 years old at this time. 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:00.240 And he's just he's experiencing all this. 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:04.320 He's full of worry and fear and confusion with all that's going on in his country. 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:07.919 I mean, at 12 years old, you don't understand anything at this point in your life. 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:15.919 But something that wasn't going to stop despite the war, despite this these bombings and destruction, is Djokovic at this point was already playing tennis. 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:18.080 He started, I think, at six years old. 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:21.919 Is he going to continue to train and practice through all of this? 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:28.720 And here's a description at the time of what he would do so he could train the following days, which is quite chilling. 00:16:28.879 --> 00:16:32.000 Djokovic liked it possible to be one day behind the bombers. 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:42.559 After dressing for practice and packing his racquag with the care you might take before going to a country club, he would leave the apartment at dawn and go to go out to chase the destruction around Belgrade. 00:16:42.799 --> 00:16:52.320 He was looking for newly blackened grass, just form craters, and steel and concrete that was freshly disfigured for the places that were still rattling and burning from the day before. 00:16:52.559 --> 00:17:04.319 As perverse or as ghastly as it might seem now, there was logic to Djokovic and his family listening to the news on the radio about where the bombs had been dropped the night before, and then seeking out courts and areas of the city that had just been hit. 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:08.319 The NATO bombing command were unlikely to target the same spots again so soon. 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:11.039 Djokovic also had to keep an eye on the time. 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:17.359 To be an aspiring young tennis player in Belgrade in the spring of 1999 was to be an amateur analyst of NATO's bombing patterns. 00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:26.960 You had to learn, and sometimes, despite all of the horror, this almost felt like a game to him when the safest when the safest time of day to be on court. 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:28.559 Like, imagine that. 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:32.960 You wake up in the morning after the bombings, after destruction that you're so fearful of. 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:47.759 And then you have to find a court to train on that is near the bombs, and you see all this discrep dis destruction, you see the fire, you see, you see this chaos, and that's actually the safest place to be at that moment in time, just to play tennis, just to train at that moment. 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:49.519 Like it's it's just wild. 00:17:49.759 --> 00:17:57.039 And I think it's, I mean, without a doubt, it's tough to find any sort of good in an upbringing like this to have to experience these types of things. 00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:02.480 But as the years went on, Djokovic saw, I think, a lot of power in having to deal with what he dealt with. 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:07.440 If Djokovic's family and nation could survive this, he thought, then there wasn't much that could break them down. 00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:09.759 And he could do anything he wanted with the rest of his life. 00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:14.079 After this, everything else, tennis included, would seem easy by comparison. 00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:15.759 I think that last line is important. 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:25.680 After this, after all the war that he had to experience, the violence, the killings he had to experience, everything else, tennis included, would seem easy by comparison. 00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:34.160 Coming through, as he described,

horrifying moments such as these, when he felt completely helpless, gave Djokovic an inner strength and resilience that has stayed with him throughout his career. 00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:37.599 It also made him hungrier, even more ambitious to exceed as a tennis player. 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:48.160 He wanted to show how a young boy who had survived the horrors of war could become the best in tennis, a global sport played by athletes from far wealthier nations that also weren't being bombarded. 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:51.680 Yelena Yankovic, she's another player from Serbia. 00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:56.160 She explained this on like the power of where they come from, where her and Novak come from. 00:18:56.319 --> 00:18:58.559 We were hungry because nothing was ever given to us. 00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:00.319 Everything we had, we had to earn. 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:04.480 And we had to work harder than everybody else from other countries just to prove ourselves. 00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:15.279 There's this great quote I I love from a writer named Christine Kane, where she says, Sometimes when you're in a dark place, you think you've been buried, but you've actually been planted. 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:24.799 And when you think about what Djokovic had to endure as a young boy, the war, the bombings, the deaths, it like it was awful. 00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:38.559 But with time, it probably seemed to plant some seeds for hunger, for mental resilience, for ambition that with time would propel him forward later in his life and later in his career once he went down the path of becoming a tennis player. 00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:45.759 Now, we opened up this episode with the question Djokovic has always asked himself throughout his career, how will this help my tennis? 00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:53.359 And he's arguably arguably been asking that question since his earliest memories, just like six, seven years old when he started the sport. 00:19:53.519 --> 00:20:01.359 And Djokovic from that age had a single goal in mind, and that was, we mentioned one of the goals was to win Wimbledon, but his number one goal was to be the best player in the world. 00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:08.960 Djokovic's father had brought his son to Bogdan Obradovich to a tennis club in Belgrade Suburb to ask the coach what he thought of the boys' prospect. 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:15.839 Obradovich was astounded by the focus Djokovic brought to every shot and how he also already had a cooldown and stretching routine. 00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:17.759 This is Djokovic at like seven years old. 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:22.000 At the end of the first practice session, Obradovich asked Djokovic, what's your goal? 00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:27.119 Djokovic was clear, I want to become the number one in the world, number one player in the world. 00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:30.640 That's easy to say, but there are a lot of things that you have to do to get there, he said. 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:32.880 Djokovic wasn't phased. 00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:33.519 It's okay. 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:35.359 I will do everything that's necessary to get there. 00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:38.720 That's my dream, and I believe I will get there. 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:42.960 Something Djokovic, we kind of mentioned it there, but something Djokovic had from a very young age. 00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:49.839 And I think this went with like how much he deeply, deeply cared about tennis and how serious he was about making it in the game from a young age. 00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:59.839 But he had a certain seriousness to his approach, to his practicing, to his preparation, even when he was still seven, eight years old, and and and when he was a young teenager. 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:04.799 Like at just eight years old, nine years old, I mentioned there earlier, he had a cool down and stretching routine. 00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:09.440 Djokovic was also introduced to this lady named Yelena Jenkovich. 00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:16.640 Yelena Yankic, like I said, a lot of names I'm gonna butcher day, who worked with uh one of the best players in the world, uh Monica Selles. 00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:19.839 And here's a great description on when he started with Yelena. 00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:22.160 Djokovic was five years old when he first joined in. 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:24.720 He was no ordinary five-year-old, as Yelena discovered. 00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:34.319 Before that first session session, Djokovic was half an hour early and had brought with him a large tennis bag containing its racket a tally, a bottle of water, a banana, and some wristbands. 00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:35.440 Yelena was astounded. 00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:36.319 Who packed your bag? 00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:36.799 Your mother? 00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:39.920 To which Djokovic replied, No, I packed it. 00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:45.039 She asked him how she had known what he would need from watching tennis on television. 00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:50.960 He said, Djokovic's perfectionism, so obvious to everyone now, was there from the start. 00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:55.039 It wasn't just that Djokovic wanted to become the number one player in the world. 00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:59.759 Like we have we know so many people who say they want these things, but he was willing to do the things. 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:04.559 He adopted the right habits, the right traits from a young age to get there. 00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:11.359 It wasn't just that he had the goal, but he he he he accompanied the vision with the action from a very, very young age. 00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:19.119 So as I was reading about Djokovic, it reminded me a lot about the upbringing of Maria Cheropova, who we looked at, I think it was like episode 150 or something. 00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:23.279 And I think it really fits well here because I actually just did an episode a couple weeks ago. 00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:40.319 And one of one of the ideas I've just become fascinated by, I called

it an ode to Robins, where basically I dove into these people, these lesser-known people in lesser-known roles that eventually play like a big role in the eventual success of these robins or these Batmans that we look at. 00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:45.519 There's so many robins in these lives of these Batmans that without them, the Batmans wouldn't be who they are. 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:56.799 And we see the exact same thing happen in Djokovic's life with his parents who literally sacrificed everything, and I mean everything, to try and help their son fulfill his dream. 00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:00.640 Sleepless on net, Sir John Djokovic would sometimes walk the streets at night. 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:06.079 In desperation, he had been borrowing money from loan sharks to pay the bills for his teenage son's tennis dreams. 00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:10.640 One of his midnight walkabouts, he was arrested after attracting the attention of the police. 00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:17.759 Though, after explaining that he was just a tennis dad with money problems, he sat with the officers in the station, laughing and drinking brandy until morning. 00:23:17.920 --> 00:23:21.119 That was one light moment at a time of immense financial distress. 00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:28.720 No wonder Serjan, the most obsessive and relentless of tennis fathers, had had an occasional wobble about ever how everything was going to work out. 00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:40.160 There were moments, recalled Djokovic's boyhood coach Bogdan Obradovich, when Serjan and his wife Dejana considered abandoning a project, which had sounded fanciful from the start to help their firstborn become a tennis immortal. 00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:44.799 Novak's parents would have been so tired from it all, and they would have thought about stopping. 00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:47.119 They would have been thinking, I just can't do it anymore. 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:51.920 If they didn't have to take Novak to the tennis courts again in the morning, all these problems would go away. 00:23:52.160 --> 00:24:00.960 Obradovich, who was as close to the family at the time, said Serjan was crushed emotionally, exhausted from the financial strain of trying to fund his eldest son's tennis career. 00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:04.799 Sarjan was working 15 hours a day, but that was never enough. 00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:06.160 It was impacting his health. 00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:11.920 He would he would say that he had done everything he could have done, and yet they still didn't have any money, Obradovich said. 00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:13.440 Their family was getting crushed. 00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:14.400 It was a huge problem. 00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:17.359 At that time, there was a big economic crisis in our country. 00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:21.039 The sanctions were there and everything, including food and gasoline, was very expensive. 00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:22.319 They were struggling so much. 00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:28.400 I would listen to these stories from Serjan about how he couldn't handle all the expenses, and he was trying to find sponsors. 00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:34.079 I could see that Novak was having problems with his rackets, with his shrinks, with his shoes, with his traveling expenses, with everything. 00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:37.279 As Novak was suffering, everyone around him was suffering too. 00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:38.319 We struggled so much. 00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:40.640 Lots of bad things were happening with money and everything. 00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:45.519 That was a very tough period of time when everyone around Novak was completely exhausted. 00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:48.079 These experiences galvanized Djokovic. 00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:48.960 I think this is really important. 00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:58.640 These experiences galvanized Djokovic, who was left thinking how failure wasn't an option, how he didn't have any choice but to make himself a success. 00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:03.359 So Djokovic's parents weren't well off financially by any means. 00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:10.319 His dad worked basically all day just to fund his his tennis dreams, and tennis is a very expensive sport to fund. 00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:18.720 And it gets to a point where Sarjan starts like borrowing money from what can be best described is as uh criminals. 00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:28.799 In desperation, having sold the family silver and having already borrowed from friends, Serjan turned to loan sharks, criminals, Djokovic has called them, recalling how Serbia was a dangerous place then. 00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:33.759 Mostly the loan sharks charged Sarjan 10 to 10.5% interest in his on his loans. 00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:40.160 There were periods, Djokovic's mother has recalled, when her husband was borrowing from one lender just to pay back someone else. 00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:48.799 On a couple of occasions, when Serjan didn't repay loan sharks on time, listen to this, he had a knife held against his throat. 00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:51.119 Like, that's fucking crazy. 00:25:51.440 --> 00:25:52.240 Hey continues. 00:25:52.400 --> 00:26:02.559 There was a time when Djokovic traveled with his father to Paris to compete in the junior tournament at Roland Gero's, and his mother, who had stayed behind in Serbia with his brothers, didn't have enough money to buy any bread. 00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:08.240 Too often Djokovic's brother suffered because all the family money had gone to the young athletes training at food. 00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:13.599 And it pained Dejana and Serjan, too, that they couldn't always provide the basics for all their children. 00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:14.799 Everything was about Novak. 00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:17.839 Everything they had invested was in him. 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:21.680 It was mentioned there, but it's worth going over. 00:26:21.759 --> 00:26:31.359 So when his parents decide to agree that, like, we're gonna, we're gonna do everything we can to allow Novak to try to

become a professional tennis player and they're gonna fund his dreams. 00:26:31.599 --> 00:26:40.000 They basically made a deliberate decision to pour all of their resources into Novak and basically give damn near nothing to their other two sons. 00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:46.880 Novak went to an academy with, or went to the academy of a man named Nick Nikola Pillich, and Pillich sit on the situation. 00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:48.880 Their situation lasted for three or four years. 00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:53.519 Novak's parents were doing everything that everything they could to get that money for Novak as they believed in him. 00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:58.559 They had three kids, but everything they earned then went back to Novak's tennis. 00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:08.559 And something I was thinking about when reading about Djokovic and his upbringing and this whole situation with his family, where they're doing anything for him and pouring everything into his tennis at the cost of his brothers. 00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:14.079 And I mean, we mentioned earlier, even his dad was willing to risk his life for this by getting funding from criminals. 00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:22.079 And it comes back to this idea that we mentioned a few weeks ago in episode 171 on Morgan Housel and like the lessons that never change throughout history. 00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:27.119 And Hausel writes on the importance of tough times for progress and innovation. 00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:28.799 And this is going to come back to Djokovic. 00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:36.640 A constant you see throughout history, Hausel says, is that the biggest changes and the most important innovations don't happen when everyone is happy and things are going well. 00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:44.319 They tend to occur during and after a terrible event, when people are a little panicked, shocked, worried, and when the consequences of not acting quickly are too painful to bear. 00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:49.599 Stress, pain, discomfort, shock, and disgust, for all its tragic downsides, is also when the magic happens. 00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:50.319 He continues. 00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:53.039 Stress focuses your attention in good ways, good times can't. 00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:54.880 It kills procrastination and indecision. 00:27:55.119 --> 00:28:03.519 Taking what you need to get done and shoving it as close to your face that you have no choice but to pursue it right now and to the best of your ability. 00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:08.400 And in that episode, we looked at instances like the Manhattan Project, like the Great Depression. 00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:11.119 But I think it's true in Novak's case too. 00:28:11.359 --> 00:28:16.720 Like he's a young boy whose family is struggling, and they're really struggling because they're funding his dream. 00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:19.039 They're putting all the resources into him. 00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:29.759 And I think, in a sense, because of what it caused, which was struggle, fear, stress, it it motivated him, motivated Novak to do everything he could to make his dream come true. 00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:32.960 There's this description on Novak that we mentioned earlier. 00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:41.680 These experiences galvanized Djokovic, who was left thinking how failure wasn't an option, how he didn't have any choice but to make a success of himself. 00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:51.119 The urgency, the struggle, the pain almost galvanized Djokovic to a point where he was like, I'm going to will my way to make this happen. 00:28:51.279 --> 00:29:01.200 And like, for as tough as tough times are, tough times often hold a certain power with it within them, like motivation, like drive that you can't get when there are just good times. 00:29:01.359 --> 00:29:06.160 And I want to go back to his parents because they they sacrificed and supported Djokovic for years. 00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:12.480 But at any moment, through all the hardship, they like, they easily could have been like, we're done. 00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:13.839 We're gonna scratch this whole idea. 00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:15.359 They could have just said this was too much. 00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:16.400 They were going through too much pain. 00:29:16.480 --> 00:29:19.519 They were putting too much risk on the family and their kids. 00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:23.200 And there's a good description describing the potential what-ifs on the whole situation. 00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:26.960 This, the scrappiest of tennis origin stories, could easily have come to nothing. 00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:36.160 Djokovic's parents knew there was a risk that their son could have gotten injured or lost interest in the sport, and then all the money and effort that had been put into the project would have been for nothing. 00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:37.119 But that never happened. 00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:40.480 Djokovic's love for tennis never dimmed. 00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:48.480 And something Djokovic's father, like he actually truly, truly seemed to have this like unwavering faith in his son that he was going to make it. 00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:56.559 What kept Sergeon going through these times was his belief, which he shared with those around him, that his son would go on to become the greatest of all time. 00:29:56.720 --> 00:30:14.000 There's actually a lot of stories that people recall of Novak's father, where he would like he was telling people when Novak was eight, ten, twelve, fourteen, not just that he was going to be good, not just that he was going to be professional, but like he truly, truly believed that Novak was going to be the greatest player of all time. 00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:16.960 It reminded me a lot of Earl Woods with Tiger Woods. 00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:24.559 Earl Woods believed like Tiger was this like was like brought down to earth on God to transcend the world through golf. 00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:26.160 And I mean ultimately he did. 00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:32.880 But Novak's father had

a very similar sense that that Novak was going to be special from a very young age. 00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:42.400 And speaking of having to be motivated, there's there's this moment through it all, going back to what we just mentioned earlier, that Djokovic has recalled many, many times throughout his life. 00:30:42.559 --> 00:30:53.759 Djokovic can still recall the moment, which sounds cinematic but was dreadful to experience when his father slammed a 10-Deutschmark note, which is basically just like$10, on the table and said to the family, This is all we've got. 00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:57.119 That money would have to feed all five of them. 00:30:57.279 --> 00:31:12.640 And Djokovic, knowing like he was responsible for basically most of their financial struggles because of how much money they were pouring into tenants, just knew he had to push himself to the extreme because like he would be like if he didn't make it, things were gonna be really bad for the family. 00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:19.119 There's some great descriptions on Djokovic's work ethic as a young boy during this time, which was fueled even more by the situation he was in. 00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:29.839 Nikola Pilich was what which was the man of the academy he went to, would tell the other students how Djokovic was a future elite player, and not just because of the way he hit the ball and how he moved, but because of his hunger and his ambition. 00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:36.799 Djokovic had a vision of where he wanted to be along with a plan about how he was going to get there by grinding day after day. 00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:46.160 Fellow player Kazman Giorshechku, butchered that name, recalled how Djokovic would work on his tennis and fitness until he was almost at the point of physical collapse. 00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:50.880 He was sometimes about to drop down with exhaustion, and then he would work some more. 00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:56.319 One of my favorite mottos ever, I mentioned this all the time, comes from Rhonda Rousey's mother, actually. 00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:06.400 So I did an episode on Rhonda Rousey, and it's early in her life when she's doing judo, and she spends like 10, 15 minutes getting some extra work after practice, and her mom thinks she should do some more work. 00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:11.519 And her mother tells Rhonda this champions do more than people who think they've done more. 00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:15.680 And I think that's a great description of Novak early on in his tennis life. 00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:21.759 And I think it connects really great with the question that he would always come back to throughout his career, like how will this help my tennis? 00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:27.920 And it's not just that Novak would do more on the court, but he would do more in literally every aspect of his life. 00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:37.519 He would take care of his body better, he would eat better, he would forge his mind more, he would, he would even stretch more, he

would try more things, anything to make him a better tennis player. 00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:42.000 So Novak would end up finally breaking through on the tour in the the mid to late 2000s. 00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:46.000 And I want to mark two key points in his life where he really like reinvented himself. 00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:51.039 There's there's a line that we mentioned on him earlier where it said Djokovic is forever reinventing himself. 00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:53.519 He must be on about the 20th upgrade by now. 00:32:53.680 --> 00:33:05.759 And Djokovic is always, I mean, he's still playing today, and he's always trying to evolve as a player because he always knows there are there are things that he can do to be better, both on and off the court, that can that can take his game to another level. 00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:12.640 So the very first change is actually how he handled himself on the court and on the tour as a player and and as a person. 00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:18.160 So for the first years, first few years of his career, Djokovic was, or he became known as like a jokester. 00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:20.799 He made fun of other players and their serves. 00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:22.079 He cracked jokes. 00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:26.319 It was it was like the playful and really like actually like the authentic side of Djokovic. 00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:29.039 He was always a jokester throughout his life and always liked to joke around. 00:33:29.119 --> 00:33:37.839 But he soon realized that after some time, that this approach, even if it was his authentic self, was starting to do more harm than good, especially to his tennis game. 00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:46.400 What if a few years into your career, after you had already won a first major title and become a leading figure in the sport, you shed one on court personality and created another? 00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:50.559 That sounds like a stretch, almost impossible, but that's what Novak Djokovic did. 00:33:50.720 --> 00:34:00.160 Something curious had happened with Djokovic early on in his life, on the professional tour, during his Joker phase, doing impressions about the players was, you might say, when Djokovic was truly himself. 00:34:00.319 --> 00:34:08.000 That sounds paradoxical, but he was showing he had some spirit and a sense of humor, that he had something about him other than outworldly tennis skills. 00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:14.480 But Djokovic also came to realize that for all the laughs and the good times, being the Joker wasn't always good for business. 00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:15.440 So he changed. 00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:18.719 He reinvented himself and became a more subdued and sensible athlete. 00:34:18.800 --> 00:34:24.880 In the future, the fun side would still serve occasionally when he was on the court, such as with his victory dances. 00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:29.760 There would still be glimpses of the Joker, but for the most part, Djokovic had achieved that side of his personality. 00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:32.400 But you have to wonder at what cost. 00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:36.320 Novak became more and more subtle on the court, said Deuce and Vamek. 00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:38.960 That's just been his journey of finding who he is. 00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:40.960 Stopping the impressions was part of his growth. 00:34:41.119 --> 00:34:44.960 One moment, Novak would have felt as though that was the right thing to do. 00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:49.760 And then in the next moment, he would have felt that it was okay not to be the guy who makes those reels. 00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:54.320 Djokovic was sufficiently self-aware to appreciate that from time to time he pushed it too far. 00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:58.320 He was realizing that being humorous on the court possibly wasn't helping his cause. 00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:00.079 He wanted to be seen as a tennis player. 00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:01.440 During the 2007 U.S. 00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:07.280 Open, Djokovic felt as though he was getting more compliments for his impersonations than he was for the quality of his tennis. 00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:12.880 It left him wondering, guys, am I here for the impersonations, entertaining, or to play tennis? 00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:24.079 If there was a moment when Djokovic felt as though he was going to have to tone it down being the Joker, it was when he was serving in a big match and you heard a spectator shout out, hey Novak, do the impersonation of Maria Sheripova. 00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:24.880 We like that. 00:35:25.119 --> 00:35:26.239 Make us laugh. 00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:35.519 And what Novak realized after a while of being this sort of like jokester is in the long run, like this was not going to help him get the most out of his career. 00:35:35.679 --> 00:35:44.239 So in essence, he basically completely changed his personality on the tour and his approach and in essence, reinvented himself. 00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:54.719 And it comes back, I keep mentioning it and I keep keep honing it because I think it's so important, but it keeps coming back to the question that Novak kept asking himself over and over again, which was how is this going to help my tennis? 00:35:54.880 --> 00:35:56.000 How will this help my tennis? 00:35:56.159 --> 00:36:02.159 But without a doubt, the most important change and the most important reinvention for Djokovic would happen after he had won his first major. 00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:06.800 So he wins the Australian Open, one of the four major Grand Slows in 2008. 00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:11.360 And it seemed that that would be the moment that like he announced himself to the world as many tennis players do. 00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:14.159 Once you win your first grand slam, it's kind of only up from there. 00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:21.920 But in Djokovic's case, it would actually mark the moment of some early struggles in his career, and especially with his body. 00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:25.039 Djokovic started to struggle with his

energy levels. 00:36:25.119 --> 00:36:26.880 He struggled to complete full matches. 00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:28.400 He struggled to stay healthy. 00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:34.639 He dealt with like a lot of small physical ailments that caused him to compete in tournaments or to win tournaments. 00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:36.079 And here's how it's described. 00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:47.920 The way it usually works at the highest levels of tennis is that you go through your big existential struggle, confronting and then fixing the physical, technical, and psychological flaws in your makeup, and then all being well, you have your breakthrough and win your first Grand Slam title. 00:36:48.079 --> 00:36:49.679 But that wasn't the Djokovic narrative. 00:36:49.840 --> 00:36:54.960 If he had imagined that, after winning his first major at the 2008 Australian Open, he would quickly pick up a few more. 00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:56.000 It didn't work that way. 00:36:56.159 --> 00:36:58.400 Far from surging and soaring, he was regressing. 00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:07.039 Djokovic had won that first Grand Slam title before undergoing a personality adjustment, before dialing down his extra for Joker persona and becoming a less excitable presence. 00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:14.559 Djokovic had also become a major champion before sorting out what was happening with his body, or before he ever knew there was anything to sort out. 00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:17.199 Djokovic's story was unusual in tennis. 00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:25.679 First, the maiden Grand Slam victory, and only then afterward did he experience the big struggle with Solomon Flirt with the idea of quitting. 00:37:25.840 --> 00:37:29.920 We'll come back to that last line of him almost quitting a little later. 00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:32.719 And here were like the physical problems that Djokovic was dealing with. 00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:38.239 There were days when Djokovic felt as though he had concrete in his legs and as though he couldn't get air into his lungs. 00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:39.519 He wasn't good in the heat. 00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:42.320 It was also taking him a long time to recover. 00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:50.480 When he was new on the scene, a teenage Djokovic had developed the last thing any athlete wants in a sport as demanding as tennis, a reputation for fragility. 00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:53.519 Retiring from any match won't set easily with any tennis player. 00:37:53.679 --> 00:37:59.039 It's an even more desperate situation when you're deep into a grand slam, but it was happening all too often with Djokovic. 00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:07.519 A year after stopping in Paris, Djokovic reached his first Grand Slam quarterfinals at Roland Guerros, which was the great tennis tournament that Nadal won 14 times. 00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:11.199 In 2006, where he was to play, the great Rafael Nadal. 00:38:11.280 --> 00:38:13.920 But after losing the first two sets, he retired because of a back injury. 00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:19.519 Djokovic's aim of winning Wimbledon appeared closer than ever when he advanced into the semifinals in 2007. 00:38:19.599 --> 00:38:23.440 But after splitting the first two sets with Nadal, he felt as though he could play no more. 00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:31.039 His body felt exhausted, he had a sore back, and he had barely been able to walk in the morning of the match because of an infected blister on his little toe. 00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:32.320 A pattern was emerging. 00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:36.000 There was a long while when Djokovic's body wasn't at the level of his tennis. 00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:41.039 The most dispiriting of all Djokovic's grand slam abandonments was at the 2009 Australian Open. 00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:50.079 For the first time, he was back at a major as the defending champion, giving him a special status, and yet he'd faded in the heat of Melbourne, retiring from his quarterfinal with Andy Roddick. 00:38:50.239 --> 00:38:58.400 So with all these physical problems that are happening over and over again, Djokovic is introduced to a man and a doctor named Igor Satovich. 00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:07.360 And there's this moment when they're having dinner together, and he does this practice with Djokovic that would change really the trajectory of his career. 00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:16.239 So Igor has Djokovic perform like this strength test one time while he's holding bread against his stomach, and one time when he isn't. 00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:24.320 And what Igor notices is that Djokovic is remarkably weaker, like noticeably weaker when the bread was near his stomach. 00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:29.519 And Igor believes, because of that, that that Novak probably has like a gluten intolerance. 00:39:29.599 --> 00:39:30.320 It's described. 00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:35.599 Igor believes something was up with Djokovic's digestive system, which could have resulted in a buildup of toxins. 00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:50.320 You can be as skeptical as you wish, but there's no doubt that you can divide Djokovic's career into two parts, the time when he was eating a lot of gluten, and then the mostly glorious rest of his career, which started that which started the moment that Igor placed a slice of white bread on his stomach in the summer of 2010. 00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:56.079 At the restaurant, Igor firmly pressed down on Djokovic's right arm, with the player pushing back. 00:39:56.239 --> 00:40:02.079 Next came the great tennis experiment, when Igor put the bread against Djokovic's stomach and again pressed down on his right arm. 00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:03.760 Djokovic sensed he was weaker. 00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:07.519 Djokovic wanted to be sure he was definitely weaker when exposed to the bread. 00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:09.440 So Igor did the test again. 00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:12.800 Once more, Djokovic could feel how gluten was weakening him. 00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:15.840 He was an athlete who for too long had been eating all wrong.

00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:19.519 Djokovic had thought he had been fueling his body for competition. 00:40:19.599 --> 00:40:24.719 But the problem, as Igor saw it, was that the athlete had been putting diesel into a Ferrari. 00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:28.239 When Igor asked him to go gluten-free for two weeks, he could feel a difference. 00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:30.639 No longer was he feeling drowsy and slow in the mornings. 00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:34.400 He had an energy, he had energy that he hadn't felt in years. 00:40:34.559 --> 00:40:39.360 The greatest change in Djokovic was how he felt, which was stronger, faster, and fresher, even more flexible. 00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:44.239 Now that he was eating right, he could breathe and he had more energy, focus, and mental clarity than he had in years. 00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:46.800 In short, he was re-invigorated. 00:40:46.960 --> 00:40:56.159 And this change occurred to his diet and everything in 2010, after Djokovic had won his first major in 2008, but had struggled to consistently get back to the top. 00:40:56.400 --> 00:41:08.800 And it's after this change in his career, it's after he meets Igor and the subsequent changes of cutting out gluten and making some other changes as well, that his career just he just launches off from that very point. 00:41:08.960 --> 00:41:14.400 And it's actually the very next year that he puts together, arguably the greatest year in tennis history. 00:41:14.559 --> 00:41:16.320 Suddenly, Djokovic was a different player. 00:41:16.480 --> 00:41:18.559 Suddenly he had a physical authority on the court. 00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:28.159 Three long years after winning his first major, and around seven months after he considered quitting, when the emotions were running high at Roland Garros in 2010, and we're going to return to that in a moment, this idea of quitting. 00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:30.400 He had won his second Grand Slam. 00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:34.880 Djokovic was unstoppable and often unplayable, winning 41 consecutive matches. 00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:40.000 No one in Djokovic's era, not even Federer or Nadal in their prime, had dominated like that. 00:41:40.159 --> 00:41:45.039 Everything was happening fast for Djokovic, as reaching the final had propelled him to the world number one ranking. 00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:46.239 He was 24 years old. 00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:55.199 The boy who at night had hidden from bombs in the basement, Bunker, emerging during the day to practice amid the destruction, was officially the best player in the world. 00:41:55.360 --> 00:42:04.000 Of all the numbers that season, arguably the most significant was that Djokovic had won 10 of his 11 encounters against Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal. 00:42:04.239 --> 00:42:12.880 And it's kind of crazy to think about, but Djokovic doesn't become Novak Djokovic, the greatest tennis player ever, or arguably the greatest tennis player ever. 00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:25.840 If he never meets Igor, if he never does

that weird experiment with the bread that evening at dinner, like if he never completely alters the way he eats, you could argue that he doesn't become the player he becomes today. 00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:37.440 And there's this great story of Novak, which just shows his his his dedication, his willpower, even his obsession and a little bit of his craziness when it came to his nutrition and really everything in life. 00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:44.239 Bogdan Obradovich was sitting at a table with Djokovic once, eating some lunch after a practice session, when an alarm went off on the player's phone. 00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:50.079 It was to alert Djokovic that a year had passed to the minute since he had last eaten chocolate. 00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:54.239 Now it's exactly one year since I had la since I last had a piece of chocolate in my mouth. 00:42:54.400 --> 00:43:07.039 Djokovic said to his then Davis Cup captain, this is the player who, after winning a Grand Slam, asked someone to break off a square of chocolate, just a single square, and dark rather than milk chocolate, so he could remind himself what it tasted like. 00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:12.159 Obronovich laughed at the memory of Djokovic setting alarms about abstaining from eating chocolate. 00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:14.960 I said in OVEC, you're crazy, man. 00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:33.039 So before Djokovic would start to dominate the tennis world and put himself in the mix with the two great players at the time, who were Roger Feder and Rafael Nadal, there actually came this point in 2010 before he made any of the changes to his diet and nutrition and approach, where he came very close to leaving the game of tennis. 00:43:33.199 --> 00:43:37.599 The lowest point for Djokovic didn't come against Feder and Adal, but against Jurgen Melzer. 00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:47.280 Having led two sets to love in his quarterfinal against the Austrian at Roland Garros in 2010, Djokovic went on to lose and was so distraught that he cried and stopped and let it all out. 00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:50.400 For the first time, he wanted to walk away from tennis. 00:43:50.559 --> 00:43:57.840 Even stronger than that, he wanted to run away from tennis, to get away from the people and the environment and the environment and all the pressure that had been building up around him. 00:43:57.920 --> 00:43:59.760 Djokovic couldn't see a reason to continue playing. 00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:00.320 Playing. 00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:08.639 He had already won one Grand Slam and been ranked third in the world, but he couldn't envision achieving his dreams of holding the Wimbledon trophy and becoming the world number one. 00:44:08.800 --> 00:44:13.519 It felt, having worked towards those dreams since he was a child, that his universe was collapsing. 00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:20.320 If he couldn't even beat Melzer on clay, what chance did he have against Federer and all at any of the slams? 00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:27.519 Most coaches, Djokovic would

later reflect, would have tried to say something motivational and uplifting to quickly make the player feel strong again. 00:44:27.599 --> 00:44:31.280 But his coach Vajda was giving Djokovic the chance to address his vulnerabilities. 00:44:31.440 --> 00:44:36.639 Vajda encouraged Djokovic to cry, helping him to liberate all the emotions he had been experiencing. 00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:39.840 Djokovic was, to borrow his phrase, spilling his guts out. 00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:46.320 And if Vajda hadn't been there, if he hadn't been a shoulder to cry on, Djokovic would have felt even more alone. 00:44:46.480 --> 00:44:52.159 At moments of failure, Djokovic has found it's been helpful to ask himself, why are you playing tennis? 00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:54.159 What motivated you to play in the beginning? 00:44:54.320 --> 00:44:55.599 Why are you still playing it? 00:44:55.760 --> 00:45:00.880 Stepping away from tennis to reflect on whether he wished to continue, Djokovic went looking for his inner child. 00:45:01.039 --> 00:45:08.559 He wanted to go back to how he felt as a young boy in Serbia and to rediscover that pure love for picking up a racket and swinging at the ball. 00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:14.159 If Djokovic was going to end up returning to the circuit, he wouldn't do so just because that's what everyone expected of him. 00:45:14.320 --> 00:45:22.159 It was going he was good if he was going to keep on playing tennis, it would be because he still had a boyish sense of fun and joy. 00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:30.639 There's actually this conversation that Djokovic has after this specific match where he's contemplating like leaving, leaving the sport with his coach. 00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:34.239 And his coach asks him a very simple and important question. 00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:36.079 Why did you start playing the sport? 00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:38.400 Put aside rankings and what you want to achieve. 00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:41.599 Do you really like holding a racket in your hand? 00:45:41.760 --> 00:45:44.800 And Djokovic thinks about this question for like a couple seconds. 00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:46.480 And then he tells his coach, I do. 00:45:46.639 --> 00:45:48.000 I love holding a racket in my hand. 00:45:48.079 --> 00:45:54.079 Whether it's a grand slam final or center court or just a normal public court, I like playing for the sake of playing. 00:45:54.480 --> 00:46:13.760 But something that Djokovic had had seemed to do, or or something that he had had fallen prey to, I I think at this point in his life, he started to let the measurements of tennis, the uh the trophies, the achievements, the slams become the main like measuring stick for his love for the sport. 00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:17.440 And when that became the case, he started to lose some of the love. 00:46:17.599 --> 00:46:29.679 And I actually think this is like one of the dances of life because I think the pull of like external forces can be so great, like money, status, accomplishments, that they can truly take away why you started doing something in the first place. 00:46:29.840 --> 00:46:40.320 Like if you think about a young Novak Djokovic, he didn't pick up a racket in Serbia amidst all this war because he was like, this is gonna bring me money, or this is gonna bring me fame, or this is gonna bring me success. 00:46:40.639 --> 00:46:47.039 He picked up the racket and kept picking up the racket because from the initial moment, he just enjoyed doing the thing. 00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:50.079 He enjoyed doing the thing for the sake of doing the thing. 00:46:50.239 --> 00:46:57.360 And there's this moment I mentioned in the Twyla Tharp episode about a man named Bert Meyer, who did, he was a lawyer. 00:46:57.519 --> 00:47:00.960 And it's a story I find myself coming back to a lot. 00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:10.000 So Twy the writes this the talent agent Sam Kahn tells me a story about an entertainment legend, Bert Meyer, who taught him a great lesson through a daily ritual. 00:47:10.159 --> 00:47:16.320 Kahn was working at C at CBS at the time, and Meyer thought he was working too hard for CBS and not enjoying himself enough. 00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:18.480 You're overcommitted, he told Sam. 00:47:18.880 --> 00:47:20.880 You know, I practice law for fun. 00:47:21.039 --> 00:47:21.920 I don't have to do this. 00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:24.159 And I'll tell you how I came about that. 00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:28.480 Ever since I was a young lawyer, each day I would come back from lunch and I would close my office door. 00:47:28.639 --> 00:47:32.559 I would sit in my chair, and for one hour I would quietly ruminate on one question. 00:47:32.639 --> 00:47:36.719 And the question was this, Bert, what's in it for you? 00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:38.159 What's in it for you? 00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:42.159 And that's the sort of question that Djokovic had to had to come back to. 00:47:42.320 --> 00:47:46.320 He had to ask himself, like, with tennis, what's in it for me? 00:47:46.480 --> 00:47:48.000 Like, is there still joy in the craft? 00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:50.079 Am I doing it for the right reasons? 00:47:51.519 --> 00:47:55.440 Have I lost the plot of what I'm after or what's important? 00:47:55.599 --> 00:47:59.440 Like, am I still playing tennis because I like playing tennis? 00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:06.400 And what's fascinating is this would actually happen a second time in Djokovic's career in in 2018. 00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:07.840 So eight, nine years later. 00:48:08.079 --> 00:48:12.000 Novak, his mind humming with doubts about his future, was suddenly sure of one thing. 00:48:12.159 --> 00:48:13.519 He no longer wanted to play tennis. 00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:20.400 It was the spring of 2018, and he gathered his team, including his then agent, Eduardo Ortaldi, and his wife Yelena, and told them he was stopping. 00:48:20.559 --> 00:48:21.519 You know, guys, I'm done. 00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:23.360 The break with tennis would be absolute. 00:48:23.519

--> 00:48:28.960 It wasn't just that he no longer wanted to play tennis, he also no longer wanted to watch tennis or even be around the sport. 00:48:29.199 --> 00:48:32.559 Djokovic was 30 years old and he had won 12 grand slams. 00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:39.039 It had been a fine career, and he had moments when he had been untouchable, but no one was describing him as the greatest of all time. 00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:40.559 Not even close. 00:48:40.719 --> 00:48:44.239 Novak thought it was the end of his career, recalled Craig O'Shaughnessy. 00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:47.360 Novak was going through a period of doubt. 00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:49.440 And this goes back to what we mentioned earlier. 00:48:49.679 --> 00:48:54.960 But at this point in 2018, he seemed to lose a little bit of joy for the sport. 00:48:55.039 --> 00:49:04.320 While Djokovic hadn't reached an emotional state where he hated tennis with a dark and secret passion, as Andre Agassi said he had done during his own career, he couldn't see the point in continuing. 00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:08.719 Djokovic instructed his agent to tell his sponsors that he was zipping up his racket bag. 00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:12.880 The sport didn't know it as he didn't announce the news, but he was an X player now. 00:49:13.039 --> 00:49:20.159 Eight years earlier, when the defeat of Jürgen Melzer at Roland Garrett's in 2010 brought on an existential crisis, Djokovic had thought about running away from tennis. 00:49:20.320 --> 00:49:24.639 This time, with the feelings even stronger, he had gone ahead and retired. 00:49:24.719 --> 00:49:26.960 It had been a while since tennis had felt fun to him. 00:49:27.119 --> 00:49:30.960 The sport had been serious for him for longer than he could remember. 00:49:31.119 --> 00:49:39.679 And then there's something interesting that a strategy coach, Craig O'Shaughnessy, thought might have happened when he took this like little mini retirement and spent more time with his family and kids. 00:49:39.920 --> 00:49:41.199 There was something else going on too. 00:49:41.360 --> 00:49:46.559 While Djokovic had been away from tennis, he had experienced what life was like away from the circuit and he had liked it. 00:49:46.719 --> 00:49:48.079 O'Shaughnessy suspected. 00:49:48.239 --> 00:49:52.559 Djokovic had seen what life could offer when you're not forever on planes and practice course. 00:49:52.719 --> 00:49:55.840 When you step away from the game, you do different things, you have a different life. 00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:58.960 You have a different view of life rather than going from tournament to tournament. 00:49:59.039 --> 00:50:00.719 Always on airplanes, O'Shaughnessy said. 00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:02.639 He probably got a taste of that different life. 00:50:02.719 --> 00:50:08.880 And his tennis wasn't going well, so it's only a natural progression to think that maybe this is the end of my career. 00:50:09.039 --> 00:50:13.519 It made me think of this idea that humans always

want what we don't have. 00:50:13.679 --> 00:50:17.599 Like it doesn't matter what you have or how much you have or how good things are for you. 00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:22.400 There's always this need to overvalue what we don't have and undervalue what we do have in our life. 00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:29.599 And I think what Djokovic may have seen at this moment in his life is he saw a different life where he didn't have to travel. 00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:30.480 He didn't have to train. 00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:33.519 He didn't have to sacrifice for this game that he loved. 00:50:33.679 --> 00:50:37.280 And he probably thought, like, that's probably a better life than the one I have now. 00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:39.280 And maybe that was true, maybe it's not. 00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:48.960 But I think it it's a good underlying lesson to know in your life that you're always going to overvalue the things you don't have and undervalue the things that you do have. 00:50:49.119 --> 00:50:53.119 But there's also another point here, and it's just like the the grind that Djokovic was going through. 00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:56.880 At this point in 2018, he had won 12 Grand Slows. 00:50:56.960 --> 00:51:00.559 He was up there with Nadal and Feder as the best players of his generation. 00:51:00.800 --> 00:51:02.639 But getting there, like was still a grind. 00:51:02.719 --> 00:51:03.599 It took everything out of him. 00:51:03.760 --> 00:51:07.679 He had to approach everything through the lens of like, how will this help my tennis? 00:51:07.840 --> 00:51:10.719 And that sort of approach can take a great toll. 00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:14.559 There's this great insight from last week's episode from Carlos Moya. 00:51:14.639 --> 00:51:16.960 He was a top player in the world at one point. 00:51:17.039 --> 00:51:19.360 He coached Rafa and Nadal later in his career. 00:51:19.519 --> 00:51:22.559 And Carlos Moyle says this on himself and then on the doll. 00:51:22.800 --> 00:51:26.000 I miss being on the big stage, but not what it takes to get there. 00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:27.360 It's a hard life, very hard. 00:51:27.440 --> 00:51:29.039 I see Rafa, what he's doing every day. 00:51:29.199 --> 00:51:30.559 You have to have so much dedication. 00:51:30.639 --> 00:51:31.199 It's not easy. 00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:33.360 My goal was to win a major and to get to number one. 00:51:33.519 --> 00:51:38.320 My dream was to not was not to win a bunch of Grand Slams over so many years. 00:51:38.559 --> 00:51:53.360 Even when you're winning, even when you're doing something that you love, when you're doing something at the level that Novak has done it for the last two decades, there's still certain costs that you have to be willing to endure and bear if you want to continue to have success. 00:51:53.599 --> 00:51:58.159 As Moya said, I miss being on the big stage, but not what it takes to get there. 00:51:58.239 --> 00:51:59.679 It's a hard life. 00:51:59.920 --> 00:52:08.880 Now, something that has made the trio of this generation, the doll Federer and Djokovic so great is not just how good they've been, but how long they've been good for. 00:52:09.039 --> 00:52:17.360 They put together these two decade-long careers that were unheard of in tennis for the last 20, 30, 40 years. 00:52:17.519 --> 00:52:25.039 And the interesting thing about Djokovic is he thought about playing professional tennis for a very long time from the very beginning. 00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:28.239 It wasn't something that he just thought about when he was like 30 years old. 00:52:28.320 --> 00:52:31.599 Like when he was 15, 20, he's like, I want to be playing when I'm 40 years old. 00:52:31.760 --> 00:52:33.840 Novak was already thinking about the long game. 00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:36.800 He was almost, he was looking almost 20 years into the future. 00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:40.639 When they're new on the scene, tennis players tend to be focused on what's right in front of them. 00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:42.960 The next tournament, the next match, they hit that morning. 00:52:43.119 --> 00:52:44.719 Djokovic wasn't as different. 00:52:44.800 --> 00:52:50.159 It wasn't by luck he would win he would still be winning Grand Slams when he was closer to 40 than 30 years old. 00:52:50.320 --> 00:52:54.800 That was an aspiration he had been working towards since he was barely out of his teens. 00:52:54.960 --> 00:53:09.519 The first thing a 21-year-old Djokovic had said to Gebhard Grritish, his his trainer, when they melt him, when they met in Belgrade in the spring of 2009 at the start of their first collaboration that lasted for almost a decade, was that he wished to be healthy when he was 40. 00:53:09.679 --> 00:53:10.320 Think about that. 00:53:10.480 --> 00:53:18.800 At just 21 years old, Djokovic was already focused on not just being good, but being good for a long time. 00:53:19.039 --> 00:53:24.559 And like at this exact moment, Djokovic is, he's 39 years old, and I just looked it up. 00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:27.599 I think he's the number eight player in the world. 00:53:27.760 --> 00:53:31.280 And it's because from the very beginning, he was very deliberate about his goal. 00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:36.159 He not only wanted to be the best player in the world, he wanted to be the best player in the world for a long time. 00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:43.199 Novak told me he didn't want to train in a way that his body suffers too much, as he wanted to be in top shape when he was 40, Gritz recalled. 00:53:43.360 --> 00:53:50.159 Good on Novak for having that as an objective when he was still only 21, as I know so many athletes who can't even walk properly when they're 40. 00:53:50.239 --> 00:53:53.360 They have been destroyed by their coaches with the intensity of their training. 00:53:53.519 --> 00:53:57.039 There's this thing we mentioned in the Roger Federer episode, way back. 00:53:57.119 --> 00:54:02.639 I think it's like episode 103 or 104 or something, who also had this

goal of playing for a long time. 00:54:02.719 --> 00:54:06.320 And Federer and his trainer came to this conclusion early on in his career. 00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:08.079 I think it's like right when he became number one. 00:54:08.239 --> 00:54:09.360 Federer explained this. 00:54:09.519 --> 00:54:14.320 Early on, when I became number one, we decided with Pierre, his trainer, that less is more. 00:54:14.480 --> 00:54:16.000 We have to take care of the body. 00:54:16.239 --> 00:54:17.440 Less is more. 00:54:17.519 --> 00:54:20.239 And Novak would take a very, very similar approach. 00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:25.840 He's still around today because from the very beginning, he was he was in it for the long haul. 00:54:25.920 --> 00:54:36.159 He was playing the long game and he would do the necessary things to allow his himself, his mind, his body to play, not just when he was 20, not just when he was 30, but when he was 40 years old. 00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:43.599 And I think something we see a lot with a lot of the people we study is they live by this idea of like not wanting to leave things to chance. 00:54:43.760 --> 00:54:50.960 There's this great description of John Wooden by a former player of his named Lynn Shackelford, and he's describing like the working ways of Wooden. 00:54:51.360 --> 00:54:52.639 There was logic to every move. 00:54:52.800 --> 00:54:58.320 Details of fingernails, hair and jerseys led to details of running plays, handling the ball, everything else. 00:54:58.480 --> 00:55:00.079 Hundreds of small things done right. 00:55:00.239 --> 00:55:02.079 Everything was related to everything else. 00:55:02.239 --> 00:55:04.480 Nothing was left to chance. 00:55:04.639 --> 00:55:06.639 It all had to be done well. 00:55:06.800 --> 00:55:09.679 And I think that's the approach Djokovic took. 00:55:09.760 --> 00:55:14.880 When he got on the court, when he was playing later in his career, he didn't want anything to be left to chance. 00:55:14.960 --> 00:55:27.199 He wanted to make sure that he did everything he could do in his power to the point where this idea of luck almost wouldn't even play a role in the outcome of him winning or whether he was still playing today. 00:55:27.360 --> 00:55:36.239 He didn't want to leave anything to chance, just like John Woodn did, just like Cristiano Ronaldo has, just like the other great players, Nadal and Feder have, he didn't want to leave anything to chance. 00:55:36.320 --> 00:55:39.920 And I think a great example of this is Novak's flexibility. 00:55:40.079 --> 00:55:49.920 He's arguably the greatest mover in tennis history, and he's able to get into these like these unorthodox positions that the body shouldn't be able to get into and hit great shots out of. 00:55:50.079 --> 00:55:51.599 And this isn't by chance. 00:55:51.760 --> 00:56:01.679 If Djokovic is the Spider-Man of the tennis universe, capable of hitting winners while sledding, doing the splits and what looks like extreme yoga that has come from

years of spending just about every spare moment stretching. 00:56:01.840 --> 00:56:05.119 No one becomes that flexible without making stretching a central part of their life. 00:56:05.199 --> 00:56:14.079 There have been times when Yelena has been talking to Djokovic when, without warning and while keeping the conversation going, her husband has gone into some next level stretch. 00:56:14.239 --> 00:56:23.280 And this is also worth mentioning, but part of what made Djokovic great is oftentimes the emotions he has used to get the best out of himself while he's playing. 00:56:23.519 --> 00:56:26.159 And a major emotion has been anger. 00:56:26.320 --> 00:56:33.280 In the swirl and the chaos at the Grand Slam, when there are negative voices in the crowd, Novak Djokovic is sometimes able, he has said, to concune himself. 00:56:33.440 --> 00:56:36.559 Djokovic finds a ways to focus on his breathing and staying in the moment. 00:56:36.719 --> 00:56:40.480 There are other occasions when he actively wants to feed off the buzz and the energy. 00:56:40.559 --> 00:56:47.599 Then there are the days when concunning himself just isn't possible, and because he's not perfect, he can't help but react to the heckles and the booze and the negativity. 00:56:47.760 --> 00:56:49.280 And that's not necessarily a bad thing. 00:56:49.440 --> 00:56:52.480 Feeling the coldness of the crowd can be enormously beneficial. 00:56:52.639 --> 00:56:59.119 If you're booing Djokovic and making him angry, you're doing him a favor, said Yelena Yankovic, that pushes and motivates him to be better. 00:56:59.199 --> 00:57:02.960 If the crowd is against him, he finds a way to use that to his advantage. 00:57:03.119 --> 00:57:05.920 The more they cheer against me, the better for me, Djokovic once said. 00:57:06.079 --> 00:57:10.079 They wake something in me that they perhaps don't want to see. 00:57:10.320 --> 00:57:18.880 Dario Obramovic, the sports psychologist, said on Djokovic, sometimes it can seem as though Djokovic is using being less popular, not being loved as fuel. 00:57:19.039 --> 00:57:20.320 You can see that on the court. 00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:24.000 He's using that to raise his energy and his focus level. 00:57:24.159 --> 00:57:31.519 This is something we saw with the great Ted Williams, arguably the greatest hitter of a baseball in baseball history, who said this. 00:57:31.760 --> 00:57:33.840 I always hit best angry. 00:57:33.920 --> 00:57:39.119 He would oftentimes like actually read newspapers before games that that criticized him to get him going. 00:57:39.360 --> 00:57:45.280 And there's also this writer named William William Grass who said that he worked best angry as well. 00:57:45.440 --> 00:57:47.360 I have to be mad to be working well anyway. 00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:51.039 And then I am mad about the way things are going on the page, in addition. 00:57:51.199 --> 00:58:02.159 And Djokovic, in a sense, played some of his best tennis when he was able to channel this

emotion or use the crowd working against him or just use anger in a positive manner. 00:58:02.320 --> 00:58:06.639 But what I love about Djokovic is he really only tried to keep this anger on the court. 00:58:06.800 --> 00:58:12.960 Djokovic's former fitness coach, Ronan Bega, suggested that the Serb has a different personality on and off the court. 00:58:13.039 --> 00:58:14.800 Novak's a very nice guy off the court. 00:58:14.880 --> 00:58:15.679 He's very intelligent. 00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:17.119 You could speak with him about everything. 00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:18.800 On the court, it's a different mentality. 00:58:18.880 --> 00:58:19.440 He's a fighter. 00:58:19.519 --> 00:58:22.159 When he walks to the court, it's like he comes in the boxing ring. 00:58:22.239 --> 00:58:24.000 He's a completely different guy. 00:58:24.159 --> 00:58:31.280 He had this ability to almost like turn on and off the switch, depending on whether he was playing tennis or whether he was just living his life. 00:58:31.440 --> 00:58:42.159 And what's interesting is Novak has really actively tried to diminish the feeling of anger away from the tennis court, especially because of the upbringing and the violence that he had to deal with as a kid. 00:58:42.320 --> 00:58:49.840 And if you think about his life, he is like, he has all the right to be frustrated because of the wars and the bombings and what he had to live through. 00:58:50.159 --> 00:58:51.760 But he doesn't really see it like that. 00:58:51.920 --> 00:58:55.360 Djokovic recalls this story that has always stuck with him. 00:58:55.519 --> 00:59:04.159 There's a parable about a snake and a carpenter's saw that Djokovic has felt fits with his realization that staying angry was not only going to hurt himself, that was not only going to hurt himself. 00:59:04.320 --> 00:59:10.480 When the snake accidentally cuts itself in a saw, it believes the tool has attacked it, and upset and want some revenge envelops the saw. 00:59:10.559 --> 00:59:12.000 The snake bleeds to death. 00:59:12.079 --> 00:59:16.400 And Djokovic said himself, if you're stuck in anger, what are you going to make out of your life? 00:59:16.639 --> 00:59:28.480 So one of the things I opened up this episode with is what makes what what makes Djokovic special isn't necessarily anything to do with his tennis skills or abilities, which which are incredible, but everything to do with his mind. 00:59:28.639 --> 00:59:37.119 From his perspective, Djokovic's greatest achievement isn't the dozens of Grand Slam he has won or the hundreds of weeks he has spent at number one, but it's his open mind. 00:59:37.360 --> 00:59:43.679 Djokovic was and and always has been someone who is searching for information that can help him. 00:59:53.599 --> 00:59:58.960 And he was actually even one of the first coaches ever to hire like a strategy coach that wasn't known in tennis, and he did it. 00:59:59.119 --> 01:00:04.800 And Djokovic is described as follows Novak is highly philosophical and thoughtful, which likely comes from being well read. 01:00:04.960 --> 01:00:06.719 Novak is a good student of life. 01:00:06.880 --> 01:00:09.440 Seeking out knowledge has always been a thrill for Djokovic. 01:00:09.679 --> 01:00:14.079 He looks, he looks for it in books, and he didn't read much that was lightweight or fluffy. 01:00:14.239 --> 01:00:16.239 Djokovic had always been a big reader. 01:00:16.400 --> 01:00:22.719 Djokovic has been known to quote the Greek philosopher Socrates, all I know is that I know nothing. 01:00:22.880 --> 01:00:35.119 But it wasn't just that he had a mind that was like in search of new and better information, but he has a mind that always tries to use anything and everything to his advantage, almost as a teaching moment, anything that can make him, as we come back to, as a better tennis player. 01:00:35.199 --> 01:00:39.760 And we see this perfectly during one of the worst moments in his his career and his life. 01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:59.760 If you're looking for Pete Djokovic for a moment that illustrated more than any other, his true novaknik novakness, when he was doing, saying and thinking things that were surely beyond all other tennis players, it wasn't one of his seemingly impossible feats in a Grand Slam final, or even a moment of off-court wonder, flexibility, and human origami when he stretched and folded himself into a new position. 01:00:59.920 --> 01:01:08.239 Pete Djokovic was when he was inside an Australian immigration center, and with a friend's encouragement, he reimagined his detention as a learning opportunity. 01:01:08.480 --> 01:01:19.519 For just a few days, Djokovic was experiencing what it was like to be treated like a subhuman, according to Alison Battison, a human rights lawyer who had several clients in this crappy no-star hotel. 01:01:19.679 --> 01:01:35.679 In tennis, Djokovic had attained true alpha meldom, but not in the Australian immigration system, where, after his visa had been cancelled ahead of the 2022 Australian Open, he had been reduced to the unlawful non-citizen, which was about as low a status as you could be in Australia. 01:01:35.840 --> 01:01:49.360 When Igor, the doctor he worked with who who helped him go gluten-free, when Igor Herjokovich was inside the park hotel, he contacted the athlete to encourage him to learn more about how the other men, all trapped inside the system, were suffering. 01:01:49.679 --> 01:01:52.719 Novak, observe these guys who had been staying there for years. 01:01:52.880 --> 01:01:55.599 Just be aware how blessed you are. 01:01:56.000 --> 01:02:00.159 You're never, you've never previously had exposure to people who had suffered at the level. 01:02:00.239 --> 01:02:02.800 So take the opportunity to learn from them and from this experience. 01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:04.000 This is a learning experience. 01:02:04.159 --> 01:02:08.079 Being inside that jail and being around those guys is a very good time for you to collect

information. 01:02:08.239 --> 01:02:14.239 I said to Novak, the best game ever in life is to seal life, to see life in real time. 01:02:14.400 --> 01:02:15.920 See this boy and see yourself. 01:02:16.079 --> 01:02:18.800 See how he suffers and then ask yourself what your suffering is. 01:02:18.960 --> 01:02:21.599 A few days in there, he has suffered for almost 10 years. 01:02:21.679 --> 01:02:26.639 You're there, you're there just a few days, which is a little bit of an inconvenience. 01:02:26.800 --> 01:02:34.079 This reminded me of a great line from uh Bruce Lee when he's describing the difference between an inconvenience and a catastrophe. 01:02:34.239 --> 01:02:37.199 Know the difference between a catastrophe and inconvenience, Bruce says. 01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:45.199 To realize that it's just an inconvenience, that it is not a catastrophe, but just an unpleasantness is part of coming into your own, part of waking up. 01:02:45.360 --> 01:02:48.320 And that's what Novak was getting a great lesson in. 01:02:48.480 --> 01:02:55.840 This might sound absurd, even offensive, to some of the other detainees, but those few days inside the park hotel helped Djokovic to reach a higher level as an athlete. 01:02:56.000 --> 01:03:00.960 This experience has made him a better tennis player with greater persistence and determination, Igor said. 01:03:01.039 --> 01:03:03.440 He doesn't walk around thinking he knows everything. 01:03:03.599 --> 01:03:06.639 He's continuously learning, even in prison. 01:03:06.800 --> 01:03:14.559 Now I want to wrap this up with maybe the most important story on Djokovic because I think it's something we see a lot with high performers or these ultra, ultra ambitious individuals. 01:03:14.719 --> 01:03:23.280 So by 2015, Djokovic has won three of the four major Grand Slams, and he's one off of the career Grand Slam, only missing the French Open. 01:03:23.440 --> 01:03:32.639 And it was something Djokovic obsessed about getting for years because it's it's it's the true mark of being a great tennis player, really being a legend in the game. 01:03:32.800 --> 01:03:37.679 But as time went on, it almost cuts to the point where it seemed that he wanted the trophy too much. 01:03:37.840 --> 01:03:39.679 Here's a description after he actually won it. 01:03:39.840 --> 01:03:48.320 Hoisting the trophy after Roland Garrett's title, after winning the Roland Garrett's title in 2016, was supposed to have been one of the most joyful and fulfilling moments of Djokovic's life. 01:03:48.480 --> 01:03:49.039 It wasn't. 01:03:49.199 --> 01:03:52.079 Instead, from nowhere, he soon felt a kind of emptiness. 01:03:52.239 --> 01:03:53.679 Then a darkness. 01:03:53.920 --> 01:03:58.159 Professionally and personally, winning in Paris was the start of a deeply unsettling time for Djokovic. 01:03:58.400 --> 01:04:05.760 Here was a victory that Djokovic had obsessed over for years as it would complete his set of sports four biggest prices, putting him in

a highly exclusive club. 01:04:05.840 --> 01:04:16.159 Ever since winning Wimbledon in the US Open for the first time in 2011, adding the Australian Open in 2008, Djokovic had been consumed by the vision of also being a champion of the Parisian clay. 01:04:16.239 --> 01:04:24.159 Djokovic had suffered so much in Paris, including those three finals, that it was about proving to himself that he could overcome those failures and hellish memories. 01:04:24.320 --> 01:04:32.320 Grinch said, Novek is the kind of person who, if he makes up his mind on a goal and creates this whole thing around the goal, he would do everything to make that happen. 01:04:32.559 --> 01:04:42.079 Only later would Djokovic realize he had wanted it too much, way too much, to the extent that his happiness was entirely dependent on how he performed on Clay. 01:04:42.159 --> 01:04:46.159 If Djokovic never won the title on Paris, how could he possibly be content again? 01:04:46.400 --> 01:04:50.960 I got the sense that Novak needed to win that title to be happy, Gritch, his trainer said. 01:04:51.039 --> 01:04:53.760 But then in 2016, Djokovic achieved that dream. 01:04:53.840 --> 01:04:56.480 And while he was happy, it was only a passing happiness. 01:04:56.639 --> 01:05:01.280 Not long afterwards, Djokovic fell into a motivational hole, according to his trainer. 01:05:01.519 --> 01:05:07.199 There's this great line Rafa Nodal said in last week's episode, and he's talking about this very idea of winning. 01:05:07.280 --> 01:05:09.760 And he says, victory lasts for as long as it lasts. 01:05:09.840 --> 01:05:10.800 It's momentary. 01:05:10.960 --> 01:05:14.960 What always motivated me is the desire to keep fighting. 01:05:15.119 --> 01:05:19.119 And here's Djokovic in 2016, finally completing the Grand Slam. 01:05:19.199 --> 01:05:23.039 The very thing he thought would bring him pure joy and satisfaction. 01:05:23.199 --> 01:05:26.559 And if anything, he felt even emptier at the time. 01:05:26.719 --> 01:05:36.800 Once you achieve something important like that, you feel relieved, but you don't have the same motivation and the same push inside you to go for it every day because you have something in front of you that you must achieve. 01:05:36.960 --> 01:05:40.320 Novak was very happy that he won, but that feeling didn't last for long. 01:05:40.480 --> 01:05:42.639 The adrenaline was gone and he didn't feel great. 01:05:42.719 --> 01:05:47.840 He was very tired and empty and out of energy, just mentally, mentally, and physically drained. 01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:51.440 Djokovic was as dominant as he or anyone else in modern tennis had ever been. 01:05:51.599 --> 01:05:59.519 He'd accumulated damn near 17,000 ATP ranking points, a record, and more than the second ranked Murray and third ranked Federer combined. 01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:06.000 In holding all four Grand Slam simultaneously, he'd accomplished something that was beyond Roger Federer and Raphael Nadal. 01:06:06.159 --> 01:06:09.599 And yet, in that moment, he felt as though there was something lacking. 01:06:09.760 --> 01:06:14.639 To soothe the wailing child, Djokovic would have to understand himself on a deeper level than ever before. 01:06:14.800 --> 01:06:23.679 And it wasn't always easy, including the realization that the relationship, this is important, the relationships he had with some of his closest people in his life were shallow and superficial. 01:06:23.840 --> 01:06:26.800 He recognized that he would have to reset those relationships. 01:06:26.960 --> 01:06:34.079 There was a realization, as Djokovic told his friend and former monk Jay Shetty, that he had been living a successful life, but not a meaningful life. 01:06:34.159 --> 01:06:36.159 I think that last line is very important. 01:06:36.400 --> 01:06:40.719 He had been living a successful life, not a fulfilling life. 01:06:40.880 --> 01:06:42.960 Those two things like can go together. 01:06:43.119 --> 01:06:47.039 But a successful life does not mean you actually are living a fulfilling life. 01:06:47.199 --> 01:06:49.199 I think a great example of this is Scotty Scheffler. 01:06:49.360 --> 01:06:51.280 He mentioned this last year in a press conference. 01:06:51.519 --> 01:06:52.320 It went viral. 01:06:52.480 --> 01:06:57.360 He was talking about winning and how it really isn't as fulfilling as people might think it is. 01:06:57.599 --> 01:06:59.920 Scheffler said, this is not a fulfilling life. 01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:04.639 It's fulfilling from the sense of accomplishment, but it's not fulfilling from a sense of the deepest places of your heart. 01:07:04.719 --> 01:07:06.639 That's something that I wrestle with on a daily basis. 01:07:06.800 --> 01:07:08.480 It's like showing up at the masters every year. 01:07:08.559 --> 01:07:10.719 It's like, why do I want to win this golf tournament so badly? 01:07:10.880 --> 01:07:13.039 Why do I want to win the open championship so badly? 01:07:13.199 --> 01:07:16.320 I don't know because if I win, it's going to be awesome for two minutes. 01:07:16.480 --> 01:07:20.079 Is it great to be able to win tournaments and to accomplish the things I have in the game of golf? 01:07:20.239 --> 01:07:20.480 Yeah. 01:07:20.639 --> 01:07:28.880 It brings tears to my eyes just to think about it because I've literally worked my entire life to be good at the sport, to have that entire sense of accomplishment, I think is a pretty cool feeling. 01:07:29.039 --> 01:07:30.559 To live out your dreams is very special. 01:07:30.719 --> 01:07:34.079 But at the end of the day, I'm not out here to inspire the next generation of golfers. 01:07:34.159 --> 01:07:36.559 I'm not out here to inspire someone to be the best player in the world. 01:07:36.719 --> 01:07:38.239 Because what's the point? 01:07:38.400 --> 01:07:41.760 This is a pattern you see, at least I've started to see over and over again. 01:07:41.840 --> 01:07:53.280 For as much as people love the work or the craft they

do, it's still like never the single thing that will bring the most and deepest sense of satisfaction or or or happiness. 01:07:53.440 --> 01:07:58.159 I was watching this documentary on Novak in preparation for this episode called The Lone Wolf. 01:07:58.320 --> 01:07:59.440 It's on Amazon Prime. 01:07:59.599 --> 01:08:06.239 And the sense that I got from it was that Novak was often the happiest, not when he was on the tennis court, but when he was playing with his kids. 01:08:06.400 --> 01:08:12.159 It was his time with his family and kids that gave him this deep, deep, deep sense of satisfaction. 01:08:12.320 --> 01:08:26.720 And I think if you want your work to bring you not only success, but fulfillment as well, I think it has less to do with the work and more to do with keeping the other things in life that matter, your faith, your family, those relationships in order as well. 01:08:26.880 --> 01:08:34.720 It was mentioned there on Djokovic earlier that despite all this winning at this moment in 2016, he felt he had shallow relationships with a lot of the people he knew. 01:08:34.880 --> 01:08:39.039 And that led to his success feeling like it lacked some fulfillment. 01:08:39.119 --> 01:08:43.279 And that's something Djokovic would have to improve and work towards later in his career. 01:08:43.439 --> 01:08:49.199 But I do think this is like, this is like really, really important, knowing the difference between success and fulfillment. 01:08:49.279 --> 01:08:56.560 And I actually want to end this episode by reading a story from my book Daily Greatness called Success Only Takes You So Far, that I think relates really well here in it. 01:08:56.640 --> 01:08:58.159 It's on Giannis Ante de Kumpo. 01:08:58.399 --> 01:09:02.079 With the lights of New York City glowing, NBA Commissioner David Stern stepped to the podium. 01:09:02.159 --> 01:09:05.279 With the 15th pick, the Milwaukee Bucks selected Giannis Ante de Kumpo. 01:09:05.359 --> 01:09:09.600 He announced, until that moment, Giannis's life had been defined by one word, uncertainty. 01:09:09.680 --> 01:09:12.880 His parents lived paycheck to paycheck in Greece, constantly fearing eviction. 01:09:13.039 --> 01:09:16.239 Giannis and his three brothers hustled in the streets to help put food on the table. 01:09:16.399 --> 01:09:18.479 But in a single night, everything changed. 01:09:18.640 --> 01:09:21.840 Every doubt, every struggle, every anxious hour took a different course. 01:09:22.000 --> 01:09:25.039 Giannis signed a four-year,$8.6 million contract. 01:09:25.199 --> 01:09:29.439 The money gave his family financial stability, but it stirred a sense of instability within him. 01:09:29.520 --> 01:09:34.880 As he began his rookie year, his family remained in Greece because they couldn't get Visas to join him in the United States. 01:09:35.039 --> 01:09:39.039 Despite the money, much of which he sent back home, something vital was missing. 01:09:39.199 --> 01:09:39.760 His family. 01:09:39.840 --> 01:09:42.880 His heart ached, his balance was off, and his mind began to unravel. 01:09:43.199 --> 01:09:50.720 A few months into the season, Giannis told his parents during his Skype call, I'm going to do this for as long as I have to, but if y'all can't come, I'm coming back. 01:09:50.880 --> 01:09:54.560 Making it to the NBA fulfilled a dream and gave his family a better life. 01:09:54.640 --> 01:09:56.159 But it also broke something in him. 01:09:56.319 --> 01:09:58.720 Money brought comfort, but it couldn't replace love. 01:09:58.880 --> 01:10:04.720 Take me back, he tells agents, I'd rather be with my family than just being over here in America. 01:10:04.960 --> 01:10:06.960 Success can only take you so far. 01:10:07.039 --> 01:10:10.000 You can have all the money, the job you love, and the fame and freedom you dreamed of. 01:10:10.159 --> 01:10:13.760 But if the people you care about aren't with you, it all feels empty. 01:10:13.920 --> 01:10:18.319 There is no enjoying the possessions of anything valuable unless one has someone to share it with, wrote Seneca. 01:10:18.479 --> 01:10:20.000 So go do amazing things with your life. 01:10:20.079 --> 01:10:20.880 Chase great feats. 01:10:20.960 --> 01:10:22.399 Be someone who puts a dead in the world. 01:10:22.479 --> 01:10:25.920 But don't forget that what you accomplish will only take you so far. 01:10:26.079 --> 01:10:30.079 The climb is important, but the people who climb with you give it meaning. 01:10:30.239 --> 01:10:36.560 And Djokovic, for as much as he's mastered the game of tennis, would have to learn to master that lesson as well. 01:10:36.800 --> 01:10:38.000 So I'm gonna end it there. 01:10:38.079 --> 01:10:39.359 Check out the book on Djokovic. 01:10:39.439 --> 01:10:42.479 It's called In Search of Novak by Mark Hodgkinson. 01:10:42.640 --> 01:10:45.359 And if you haven't noticed, I've been on a little bit of a tennis kick lately. 01:10:45.439 --> 01:10:50.159 And if you've enjoyed this episode, there's a handful of others on some tennis stars we've dove into. 01:10:50.319 --> 01:10:55.600 Rafael Nadal last week, Roger Federer in episode 104, and then Maria Sheripova in episode 150. 01:10:55.680 --> 01:10:57.680 If you like this one, you'll love those ones as well. 01:10:57.840 --> 01:10:59.520 You guys are the absolute best. 01:10:59.680 --> 01:11:08.239 Share the podcast with anyone and everyone who you think would like it, as well as the single thing, single best thing that you can do to help the show out. 01:11:08.399 --> 01:11:09.039 Thank you as always. 01:11:09.199 --> 01:11:10.319 Until next time, peace.