Full Transcript for Mindful Rewind: Claud

are similar in that they revolve around our anticipating negative, often catastrophic outcomes, having an intense stress reaction and engaging in thoughts and behaviors that are designed to cope with these negative outcomes. 02:43.393 --> 02:46.355 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's talk about the specific symptoms that Claude discusses. 02:46.795 --> 02:56.042 [SPEAKER_00]: Generalized anxiety is characterized by excessive worry in which we go over things in our head repeatedly and often engage in certain behaviors to avoid a bad outcome. 02:56.582 --> 03:06.534 [SPEAKER_00]: So for example, Claude discussed their persistent worry about being late to an appointment and practicing the route to get to the appointment multiple times during a day to avoid being late. 03:07.295 --> 03:15.665 [SPEAKER_00]: Social anxiety is the anxiety that we have during specific social situations, usually involving meeting new people or speaking in public. 03:16.085 --> 03:25.389 [SPEAKER_00]: In these moments, we often think people are judging us harshly as awkward or weird, and we will often avoid those situations to prevent that potential judgment. 03:25.909 --> 03:32.612 [SPEAKER_00]: Claude talks about being afraid people will never want to see them again, and how they will perhaps drink alcohol to calm their nerves. 03:33.133 --> 03:44.518 [SPEAKER_00]: Claude also talks about struggling with OCD, which occurs when we have a repetitive thought that we can't get out of our head, and or feel we have to engage in compulsive behavior to avoid the feared outcome. 03:45.098 --> 03:54.429 [SPEAKER_00]: So Cloud talked about how their mind focuses on certain things that they find disgusting or unacceptable, like someone drinking from their glass for fear of germs. 03:54.909 --> 04:01.717 [SPEAKER_00]: And they feel compelled at times to act harshly to let people know that the behavior is terrifying, not just mildly bothersome. 04:02.037 --> 04:13.829 [SPEAKER_00]: And Claude also describes the anxiety getting so intense at times that they experience panic attacks in certain situations in which they experience intense feelings of shakingness, racing thoughts and shortness of breath. 04:14.330 --> 04:22.518 [SPEAKER_00]: This would occur for them sometimes at night while lying in the dark, where most people feel alone in their thoughts, which can be terrifying for people who struggle with anxiety. 04:22.956 --> 04:32.281 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, regardless of how anxiety manifests, it can be incredibly stressful and debilitating, really interfering with our ability to engage in the basic daily activities of life. 04:32.821 --> 04:42.165 [SPEAKER_00]: And Claude talks about how they cope with anxiety, including taking anti-depressive medication, which many people utilize to control the intensity of anxiety, particularly OCD. 04:42.706 --> 04:45.767 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, let's go there and listen to what Claude has to say. 04:52.655 --> 04:53.476 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me. 04:54.397

--> 04:54.958 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. 04:55.018 --> 05:12.758 [SPEAKER_00]: So you and I were talking beforehand about anxiety and obviously anxiety is something that a lot of people struggle with but it's usually different for different people and so if you're comfortable maybe we can start with just talking about what kind of anxiety you struggle with and how it feels for you. 05:14.579 --> 05:25.848 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's been something I think I've struggled with for a while, but I saw like a psychiatrist for the first time, like six months ago. 05:28.009 --> 05:39.478 [SPEAKER_01]: And she said that I just have like a general anxiety, but when it's really bad, I have OCD, I guess I have OCD tendencies. 05:42.342 --> 05:43.323 [SPEAKER_01]: which made a lot of sense. 05:44.864 --> 05:45.584 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah. 05:46.925 --> 05:56.490 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's just make a distinction between those two things and just get a sense of you kind of where those symptoms fall for you. 05:56.550 --> 06:03.334 [SPEAKER_00]: So most of the time when people talk about general generalizing anxiety, what they're talking about is worry. 06:04.935 --> 06:11.639 [SPEAKER_00]: Does that feel like what's happening most of the time for you that you just feel like you're kind of worrying about a lot of different things? 06:11.999 --> 06:14.801 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like over worrying about everything. 06:14.821 --> 06:24.546 [SPEAKER_00]: And to give you an example of what something would be like kind of a prototypical focus of your worry. 06:25.580 --> 06:34.225 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, if I have an appointment at 3 p.m. And it's 9 a.m. 06:34.265 --> 06:52.356 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna wake up at 9 a.m. and I'm gonna think the whole day about how I'm gonna get there and how I'm gonna make sure I get there on time, I'm gonna map it out on my phone like six times and get there like, I don't wanna be early, but I really don't wanna be leads so I have to walk around the block twice to make sure I get there at the right time. 06:52.376 --> 06:54.437 [SPEAKER_01]: That kind of thing. 06:55.193 --> 07:08.156 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and one of the things that's very interesting about worry is that, at its core, it's actually a very adaptive thought process in behavior. 07:08.176 --> 07:10.297 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, think about what you just described. 07:10.397 --> 07:23.180 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you basically thinking ahead, you're planning because it's something that's important to you and you really are being thorough about making sure that the outcome you want occurs. 07:24.233 --> 07:30.597 [SPEAKER_00]: But for a lot of people, the worry doesn't feel that way or doesn't necessarily stop there. 07:30.977 --> 07:37.200 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have a sense of where it might cross over into something that maybe isn't as helpful? 07:39.242 --> 07:40.002 [SPEAKER_01]: Ah, yeah. 07:40.803 --> 07:47.666 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me think, let me think. 07:51.562 --> 07:54.062 [SPEAKER_01]:

I mean, I think I have a lot of like social anxiety. 07:54.983 --> 08:05.024 [SPEAKER_01]: So like going to social gatherings or even as social gathering of like two people is like really, really scary for me. 08:05.064 --> 08:16.567 [SPEAKER_01]: And all like overcompensated in other ways, whether it's just like getting, whether I drink it or not getting like extra alcohol just to have there just in case we need it, 08:20.341 --> 08:25.745 [SPEAKER_01]: talking, talking, talking, talking, like so much so that there's never like a second of silence, type thing. 08:27.327 --> 08:39.196 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, when people get social anxiety oftentimes what they experience is that fear of negative evaluation, like they're so worried that something bad is going to happen. 08:39.296 --> 08:42.799 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that when you're in social situations, is that something that you can't 08:46.082 --> 08:51.744 [SPEAKER_00]: And do you have a sense of what kind of things you imagine happening that are that are problematic? 08:53.045 --> 08:56.546 [SPEAKER_01]: Just like this person doesn't like me and I'm never going to hear from them again. 08:56.566 --> 09:02.108 [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to tell all their friends that I'm weird or something like that. 09:03.708 --> 09:07.430 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, again, one of the things that's so tough about anxiety. 09:07.962 --> 09:17.008 [SPEAKER_00]: or at least I find that's very difficult at that anxiety is that it's not necessarily problematic to think about that possibility. 09:17.388 --> 09:33.558 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, when you go into a social situation or you go into a situation like you described where you have an appointment, there's something that can be very adaptive about looking at all of the possible outcomes and considering what could go right or what could go wrong. 09:34.018 --> 09:36.100 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, maybe I can even back up to something 09:37.010 --> 09:44.473 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, before that we were saying, which was, do you feel like there's any adaptive qualities to your anxiety? 09:44.493 --> 09:49.335 [SPEAKER_00]: Like do you feel like that helps motivate you to think about situations and to work on them? 09:51.356 --> 09:54.837 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, sometimes I think like, 09:56.163 --> 10:07.534 [SPEAKER_01]: Like with COVID, probably like the reason not on what I haven't gotten COVID yet is because my instincts are always like, don't go, you know, like you're going to get COVID. 10:08.095 --> 10:14.160 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't go to this and it's worked so far, but yeah. 10:15.955 --> 10:34.250 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, because, yeah, like in all three situations that you've been described, right, whether or not it's worrying about an appointment or worrying about a social event or now worrying about COVID, what I'm hearing and you can tell me if I'm wrong about that is that you're thinking very deeply about things. 10:34.710 --> 10:40.315 [SPEAKER_00]: You're contemplating things that could go right or wrong and you're taking action 10:41.347 --> 10:45.752 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes, maybe the actions a little bit, you feel like it works a little bit or sometimes it doesn't. 10:46.092 --> 10:50.156 [SPEAKER_00]: But that is still such a powerful system. 10:50.837 --> 10:59.626 [SPEAKER_00]: And it sounds like, as you said, like, you're getting to the appointment on time, you're not getting COVID, knock on wood. 10:59.686 --> 11:02.910 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe in those social situations, you do actually 11:04.010 --> 11:07.693 [SPEAKER_00]: make it so that, you know, it's in deering or people connect with you. 11:08.313 --> 11:10.115 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's one of the things that makes anxiety. 11:10.335 --> 11:17.501 [SPEAKER_00]: I think very difficult to let go of because there are parts of it that do kind of work. 11:19.542 --> 11:19.843 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 11:20.363 --> 11:23.025 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly. 11:24.426 --> 11:28.569 [SPEAKER_00]: And do you, does it, but for a lot of people, it doesn't feel 11:29.536 --> 11:30.017 [SPEAKER_00]: that way. 11:30.658 --> 11:35.285 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't feel often like, oh, I'm using my anxiety to take care of things. 11:35.345 --> 11:39.792 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels like I'm I'm kind of chasing the feeling a little bit. 11:40.893 --> 11:43.015 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it never feels like rewarding. 11:43.475 --> 11:54.923 [SPEAKER_01]: But it means like even if I get to the place on time, it's never like, I'm more just stressed about how stressed I was getting there, you know, like exhausted, really. 11:54.943 --> 11:59.967 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, yeah. 12:01.268 --> 12:02.609 [SPEAKER_00]: And do you find that? 12:03.725 --> 12:13.348 [SPEAKER_00]: You get, you know, getting back to the concept of generalized anxiety and it kind of, the worry, one of the things that people have is to have physical symptoms. 12:13.408 --> 12:15.269 [SPEAKER_00]: They've trouble sleeping head aches. 12:15.289 --> 12:16.209 [SPEAKER_00]: They've stomach aches. 12:16.269 --> 12:17.710 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that that happened for you? 12:18.230 --> 12:18.650 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 12:19.130 --> 12:20.951 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I really bad stomach aches use. 12:21.731 --> 12:25.573 [SPEAKER_01]: I get bruises on my legs like on my shin sometimes. 12:26.273 --> 12:27.793 [SPEAKER_01]: If my stomach is really bad. 12:31.866 --> 12:34.388 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what the main two. 12:36.210 --> 12:42.995 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you know, if you feel comfortable, the social anxiety is something that's so many people. 12:43.095 --> 12:45.837 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, look, anxiety in general is very common. 12:45.937 --> 12:47.899 [SPEAKER_00]: Worried is extremely common. 12:48.740 --> 12:57.747 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, so, but there's something about social anxiety, I think, especially for younger people that really, really, really, 12:58.676 --> 12:59.677 [SPEAKER_00]: resonates for them.

12:59.797 --> 13:08.681 [SPEAKER_00]: And so if you're comfortable, I'd love to talk a little bit more about that, because that also comes across in music a lot, like you really dive into that. 13:10.222 --> 13:10.622 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 13:11.803 --> 13:25.669 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, I think like I'm just thinking about like you brought up my song solvts about earlier and like the first like line of the song is like this sounds kind of strange. 13:25.709 --> 13:26.930 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought I saw you to party. 13:27.452 --> 13:29.693 [SPEAKER_01]: But when I finally got close, it wasn't you. 13:30.173 --> 13:37.115 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's literally about me being in a party, like thinking that I made these see somebody who I wasn't ready to see. 13:37.795 --> 13:41.896 [SPEAKER_01]: And then like the whole time in my head being like, how am I gonna approach this person? 13:42.316 --> 13:43.376 [SPEAKER_01]: How am I gonna say hi? 13:43.736 --> 13:45.237 [SPEAKER_01]: What am I gonna say when we talk? 13:45.337 --> 13:47.917 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what's gonna happen when I go up to them? 13:47.977 --> 13:51.138 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, bubble lot and then I went up to them and it wasn't even them. 13:52.579 --> 13:53.519 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you know, 13:54.376 --> 14:07.328 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the things that maybe we can even think back to a little bit, because again, you know, we did talk ahead of time, like the concept of soft spot or the song wish you were gay. 14:07.468 --> 14:11.391 [SPEAKER_00]: That I have to say that that song really, I don't know. 14:12.292 --> 14:14.334 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, a lot of your songs are very high. 14:14.354 --> 14:17.416 [SPEAKER_00]: There's something about those two songs that felt very, 14:18.217 --> 14:44.799 [SPEAKER_00]: visceral and it's that idea for this visceral for me I should say like when when you're when you're kind of wanting something so badly and you're like hoping for it with no idea if it's going to work out it it inherently like creates this unbelievably awkward situation you know yeah all for I think maybe so I don't think people would describe me 14:45.563 --> 15:01.657 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like an awkward person, but I would describe myself as that, whether I come off as awkward or not, like every time I leave a situation, I'm like, that was so awkward, and everybody was like, everybody's like, it was and I'm like, yeah, that was so awkward, but 15:02.609 --> 15:07.095 [SPEAKER_01]: usually it's probably not, but everything feels like uncomfortable and awkward for me. 15:07.836 --> 15:19.010 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, one of the things that they show with studies is that when you have social anxiety, the way that you perform is rated a lot better than how you think. 15:20.133 --> 15:21.514 [SPEAKER_00]: people are evaluating you. 15:21.554 --> 15:26.917 [SPEAKER_00]: So in other words, like people think much higher view in your social performance than you do of yourself. 15:27.518 --> 15:39.085 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that one of the reasons is that you're the only one who really fully knows how badly you may want to connect either with someone or just in general. 15:39.205 --> 15:43.868 [SPEAKER_00]: You're the only one who really has any sense of what makes it in theory. 15:44.508 --> 15:56.720 [SPEAKER_00]: awkward like for all you know for all people know you're just kind of sitting there being like I want to listen to the music and I couldn't be bothered but you know deep down how much you may want something to happen. 15:58.502 --> 15:59.603 [SPEAKER_01]: That's really interesting. 16:01.525 --> 16:04.048 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah and when you 16:05.560 --> 16:10.383 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess one of the things that I'm kind of curious about is when you feel that way. 16:10.523 --> 16:14.526 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, it's very vivid in your songs. 16:14.626 --> 16:19.509 [SPEAKER_00]: Just one of the things that happens for people with social anxiety is they have a lot of self-talk. 16:20.109 --> 16:29.055 [SPEAKER_00]: And that can make it also very uncomfortable and awkward because it's like, I'm trying to concentrate here, but you have this voice in your head that's like saying, often negative things. 16:29.735 --> 16:38.461 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so you've got all these things having like, you want something so badly, you've got these voice in your head and it's just like, oh my god, how am I going to navigate all this. 16:38.941 --> 16:45.145 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just kind of curious if you find yourself with those kind of negative self statements in those moments. 16:46.446 --> 16:48.006 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, definitely. 16:48.287 --> 16:53.930 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like constantly over analyzing what I say or what other people say to me. 16:57.282 --> 17:08.348 [SPEAKER_01]: Or like, if what I said was weird, you know, and then I won't say anything again for like five minutes, or I will just keep talking, I don't know. 17:10.169 --> 17:22.076 [SPEAKER_00]: No, and it's hard because in a lot of situations, you can't really stop, I mean, you can, if you wanted to, but people don't generally stop and be like, okay, let me check in was that weird? 17:22.436 --> 17:24.157 [SPEAKER_00]: What I just said, you know, like, 17:27.022 --> 17:29.463 [SPEAKER_00]: a minute, you could already have racked up in your head. 17:30.323 --> 17:32.604 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, I think I just said like three weird things. 17:32.724 --> 17:36.766 [SPEAKER_00]: And like, have I like blown the whole discussion in the first minute? 17:37.366 --> 17:37.646 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm. 17:38.507 --> 17:38.807 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 17:40.507 --> 17:51.232 [SPEAKER_01]: Or like like a lot of times like an interview is not necessarily right now, but a lot of times I'm thinking about what I'm going to say next or I'm thinking about like how I'm coming off. 17:52.172 --> 17:54.113 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I don't even know what the question is. 17:58.508 --> 18:12.966

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because it's like, and this is something whether it's worry with generalizing anxiety, social anxiety, whether it's a fear of health issues, you know, because anxiety tends to, you know, just, 18:13.658 --> 18:29.273 [SPEAKER_00]: It's sort of active in us no matter what the situation is and we give it labels as though it's different, but it tends to be kind of similar and one of the things that's so tough about it is that you're you are having this very detailed dialogue in your head. 18:29.733 --> 18:47.400 [SPEAKER_00]: there is a lot going on you are trying to you know work something out and a lot of times we do just miss okay like oh god like i've been talking for the last like two minutes but i've just been thinking again about that that thing that i thought was weird from five minutes ago 18:48.950 --> 18:52.673 [SPEAKER_00]: So now we're actually kind of now there's a disconnect and like what do you do then? 18:54.875 --> 19:14.830 [SPEAKER_01]: I constantly find myself like outside of the conversation like especially if I'm in like a group of three or it just in a situation where other people are able to carry the conversation like I'm I'm like I'm not here right now like I have no idea how to jump into the conversation and I feel like I shouldn't 19:16.471 --> 19:19.912 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, and I feel like not a part of it at all. 19:22.333 --> 19:40.038 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but, you know, one of the things that I found when ever I've had social anxiety, what was really bad, it was I felt like I'm sitting there and especially in the situation that you're describing, like there's there's three people. 19:40.318 --> 19:40.938 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm one of them. 19:41.398 --> 19:44.339 [SPEAKER_00]: And you get that feeling like, oh, they're connecting. 19:45.155 --> 19:57.005 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not and you start having this moment of like, should I just leave like, do I stay like, and then for me, I almost feel like I'm like physically like floating away. 19:57.505 --> 20:11.057 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I almost feel like I can look down on myself and I'm like, oh my god, like my head gets hot and this is like, this is the worst, I was like, you know, I was like, thank God for cell phones because I can always pretend now that like, oh, I got a call, you know, that. 20:11.297 --> 20:11.717 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 20:13.675 --> 20:18.099 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing something really important on my phone right now and that's why I'm not a part of this conversation. 20:18.119 --> 20:19.840 [SPEAKER_00]: I am so important. 20:19.860 --> 20:22.122 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you have no idea how important I am right now. 20:22.162 --> 20:26.345 [SPEAKER_00]: That makes me a way for my otherwise important role in this conversation. 20:26.365 --> 20:26.785 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 20:26.805 --> 20:28.046 [SPEAKER_00]: Just stick your dots at the end. 20:28.066 --> 20:31.909 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just like, y'all, what's going on on my phone right now is wild. 20:31.949 --> 20:33.450 [SPEAKER_01]: I got a deal with it. 20:34.071 --> 20:37.854 [SPEAKER_00]: I have so glad that you do not have to deal with all that's happening right now. 20:37.914 --> 20:41.016 [SPEAKER_00]: That you guys don't have the burden of this, but if it's okay, I'm going to leave. 20:41.556 --> 20:41.817 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 20:42.547 --> 20:49.651 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's, it's so hard in those situations because I don't know that there's necessarily a right answer. 20:49.711 --> 20:58.596 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I would love it if someone like sat down and said to me, like, okay, like when you notice to, and I do this for living, I guess, like, I guess I'm someone who's supposed to know these things. 20:58.656 --> 21:07.962 [SPEAKER_00]: But like, like, yeah, if you're sitting with two people and they seem to be really connecting, like, is the polite thing to bear witness to their connection? 21:08.002 --> 21:10.143 [SPEAKER_00]: There is the polite thing to give them the space. 21:10.163 --> 21:11.644 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I really really know the answer. 21:12.124 --> 21:23.022 [SPEAKER_01]: I know I know it's like do I like let them talk am I like intruding and by saying anything but also I'm like here right now to they want me to be here like 21:25.271 --> 21:41.776 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like, is this the time where I show like how cool I am with like not having to talk and like just being able to be there like these are all things like I'm not good at and and I'm like, oh my god, this is like so not my skill set, like I'm just have to sit here quietly. 21:42.476 --> 21:42.857 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 21:44.717 --> 21:47.438 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's just depends on the situation for me, I think. 21:49.247 --> 21:56.268 [SPEAKER_00]: Have you, now, one of the things that sometimes happens for people in those moments is they get panic. 21:56.868 --> 22:08.030 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it goes beyond like worry tends to be kind of like a dull aching pain that can spike up a little bit, but it tends to to kind of be in a certain zone. 22:08.070 --> 22:15.431 [SPEAKER_00]: But when we get panic, it can feel like it's an attack of sorts, you know, obviously the term panic attack. 22:15.732 --> 22:18.292 [SPEAKER_00]: Does that ever happen in those situations? 22:21.093 --> 22:38.720 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I try not panic when I'm like around people and I think like panicking is always looks a little different for me like. 22:41.525 --> 23:06.488 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know like sometimes I start to get like really shaky and my breathing gets kind of short and in my head I'm thinking like 10,000 things and probably only saying like a couple things but I'm like maybe I shouldn't have done this or maybe this is all my fault and like maybe I should have you know whatever but yeah. 23:07.429 --> 23:27.119 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's interesting that you say that because that now as you're talking, I'm almost wondering if, you know, it's

different for people because with the breather, because you know, what you just said makes a lot of sense to me, like, when I'm in front of people, I don't let myself get the frantic, heavy, 23:28.107 --> 23:52.175 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I know I can't get frantic so it's got to kind of almost come out in other ways, which is why I think I have that like floating feeling but I'm alone I actually like will let myself get frantic so it's interesting that you're saying that some wondering if it's like okay so that's more like kind of panic attack it's a different kind of panic attack like a more conventional one if that makes any sense yeah it's more just like 23:53.791 --> 24:05.064 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no I used to get like really bad like honestly before I started like medication I used to get like really anxious like every night before I went to bed like Like with just like like in bed with the lights off. 24:05.925 --> 24:12.433 [SPEAKER_01]: I would be like what if somebody breaks in right now I'm so vulnerable or like you know like what did I lock my doors? 24:12.453 --> 24:14.275 [SPEAKER_01]: I have to go check like 30 times like 24:15.800 --> 24:19.902 [SPEAKER_00]: It can't tell you, there's different words that tend to lead to anxiety. 24:20.262 --> 24:22.483 [SPEAKER_00]: And one of them is should, right? 24:22.503 --> 24:24.464 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I should be doing something, right? 24:24.484 --> 24:29.986 [SPEAKER_00]: Because every time there's like a should, it's like, oh, I'm supposed to be doing this. 24:30.006 --> 24:33.428 [SPEAKER_00]: So if I do it, I don't get any credit for it because I'm supposed to, you know, I should be doing it. 24:33.548 --> 24:36.429 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, go, and I'm like the worst person on the planet. 24:36.769 --> 24:39.350 [SPEAKER_00]: But what if, or maybe, is, 24:41.750 --> 25:08.976 [SPEAKER_00]: is horrific for anxiety because it's it's it's not falsifiable like you can't like you're sitting there like well what if someone breaks in well you can't prove that somebody is isn't going to break in mm-hmm yeah yeah then it's horrible in those in those circumstances and it's like and that that really I think is one of the things that then for some people you know you were talking before 25:12.392 --> 25:23.475 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, like, worry in theory is when, at least this my understanding of is like, you're working on something whereas like obsession is, of OCD is like, you're just spinning. 25:24.636 --> 25:24.896 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 25:24.936 --> 25:26.656 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, no, you're not working on anything. 25:26.676 --> 25:29.057 [SPEAKER_00]: You're just thinking of the same thing over and over and over again. 25:29.437 --> 25:30.017 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 25:30.458 --> 25:31.998 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know, like, for you, like, 25:33.117 --> 25:39.240 [SPEAKER_00]: Where that cross is over, but it sounds like those evening things could cross over into that because there's nothing to figure out really. 25:39.280 --> 25:45.682 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, totally or sometimes I'm like too scared to even like get up to check the locks or something. 25:46.322 --> 25:47.203 [SPEAKER_01]: So I just like later. 25:47.243 --> 25:47.643 [SPEAKER_01]: I think like. 25:51.672 --> 26:08.388 [SPEAKER_01]: with the OCD, it's more like if I like I was moving like a few months ago I was moving one apartment I was moving around the corner from my old apartment just like down the street and I don't have that much stuff so it was like a really easy move but 26:09.668 --> 26:13.390 [SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't sleep at night because I was thinking about what I was going to put into the boxes. 26:14.351 --> 26:25.456 [SPEAKER_01]: And like how I was going to put them in the boxes and then when I was going to move it and like, just like thinking like, okay, when I wake up in the morning, I'm going to put these books in this box. 26:25.916 --> 26:28.217 [SPEAKER_01]: When I wake up in the morning, I'm going to put these books in this box. 26:28.717 --> 26:30.038 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to put these books in this box. 26:30.178 --> 26:34.280 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, just like thinking over and over, like don't forget that you're going to put these books in this box, you know? 26:39.743 --> 26:42.764 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it comes up in certain situations, I think. 26:44.005 --> 27:06.254 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, now that we've talked about kind of how it it manifests for you, I guess if you feel comfortable just talking about how you've, you know, like how you understand why it happens, like do you, do you have a model in your head of like, okay, this is why I get anxious or these are the particular triggers or anything like that? 27:09.679 --> 27:37.513 [SPEAKER_01]: I sometimes, sometimes it's just like so unpredictable for me, but like a lot of times like if like somebody I know has a cold, I'll get like really anxious, I can't go into their house or their room or like I have to stay really far away, like yeah, like I don't know, it's just 27:40.686 --> 27:49.988 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because one of the things that's been so tough about COVID is that, in general, transitions are very anxiety-provoking for people. 27:50.008 --> 27:51.328 [SPEAKER_00]: So you said, you know, about moving. 27:52.269 --> 28:02.571 [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, and yes, in the past, it's always felt like, well, of course, if someone coughs, you could get sick, but it's like, but now a lot of these fears are kind of real. 28:02.631 --> 28:07.632 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they've always been real in the classic sense, but now if somebody coughs or somebody is sick, 28:08.992 --> 28:15.141 [SPEAKER_00]: All of a sudden that previously, like, oh, maybe you're being a little, you know, you're worrying a little or you're being obsessive about it. 28:15.221 --> 28:19.386 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well, you're kind of have to do that now. 28:19.707 --> 28:20.087 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 28:21.249

--> 28:22.431 [SPEAKER_01]: I think to the like, 28:24.575 --> 28:32.980 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I've always been like this like I've never been able to share like a cup or like if someone's like, oh, do you want to try this? 28:33.020 --> 28:33.741 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really good. 28:33.801 --> 28:37.483 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I can't like if you're fork touched it, I'm not touching it. 28:37.543 --> 28:38.744 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I can't. 28:39.404 --> 28:51.833 [SPEAKER_01]: And now it's COVID people are starting to understand that a little bit more, but at the same time, like I definitely got a lot of like shade from my friends about like being overly cautious. 28:53.190 --> 29:07.323 [SPEAKER_01]: Even though I don't think that could even exist with COVID, like I think overly conscious is good, and there's no such thing as overly cautious, but it definitely made some things difficult, like for my friends, but yeah. 29:08.104 --> 29:12.407 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, that's talking about things that contribute to anxiety. 29:12.488 --> 29:14.609 [SPEAKER_00]: And look, it's so tough because 29:15.507 --> 29:22.712 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, not everybody understands anxiety, you know, and people in theory want the best for you. 29:22.732 --> 29:27.276 [SPEAKER_00]: And so if they see something that is problematic, you know, a comment on it. 29:27.316 --> 29:34.100 [SPEAKER_00]: But oftentimes what really happens is that they see something it makes them uncomfortable. 29:34.821 --> 29:37.163 [SPEAKER_00]: And then what they say to you is not really about you. 29:37.223 --> 29:38.904 [SPEAKER_00]: It's about managing their own anxiety. 29:39.684 --> 29:43.687 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's easy for them to just kind of dismiss and like, oh, you know, you don't have to think about that. 29:44.923 --> 29:45.183 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 29:45.583 --> 29:47.205 [SPEAKER_00]: That didn't really help at all. 29:47.245 --> 29:47.585 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 29:47.605 --> 29:48.565 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 29:48.606 --> 29:48.966 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 29:50.087 --> 29:52.788 [SPEAKER_01]: Or I'm like, why are rising this person worried enough? 29:53.669 --> 29:55.730 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, should I be worried now being around them? 29:55.770 --> 29:56.811 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know? 29:57.311 --> 30:13.763 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's, I mean, that's something that I definitely struggle with when I work with people because one of the things that will sometimes happen is that as people become less anxious, they feel better because anxiety is so burdensome. 30:14.505 --> 30:18.067 [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, to be honest, they're not necessarily being as thorough. 30:18.527 --> 30:20.808 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they're not thinking about potential risks. 30:20.828 --> 30:22.429 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not being as thorough, like you are. 30:22.469 --> 30:27.571 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, think about all the things just in this brief discussion that it sounds like you take care of really well. 30:28.471 --> 30:28.891 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 30:29.572 --> 30:33.173 [SPEAKER_00]: It's sort of, and that's tough because it's sort of like you're right. 30:33.213 --> 30:41.397 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you're looking around being like, I'm the one that's being made to feel other, but like, I don't know, I think I'm on the right page here. 30:41.893 --> 30:56.015 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, and I do get what you're saying to like sometimes my anxiety gets so bad that I just completely neglect it and I'll like go out all week or I'll like like 30:57.424 --> 31:11.819 [SPEAKER_01]: convince myself they don't care about anything and I don't care about because then I don't care about the music or whatever And then I'll have that for like a couple weeks and then I'll come back and be like what did I do you know like It's this terrible cycle 31:16.615 --> 31:30.386 [SPEAKER_00]: I honestly, I resonate so much with that cycle that you just described, I think there's so many people that do because sometimes you just want to be like, I just want my brain to shut off just enough already. 31:31.367 --> 31:34.910 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you feel like, oh my god, I found something that shuts it off. 31:34.930 --> 31:41.395 [SPEAKER_00]: Like maybe I'm smoking pot or maybe I'm drinking or maybe I'm just ignoring like bills or like, 31:45.112 --> 31:52.061 [SPEAKER_00]: And you go with it and then all of a sudden you're like, oh my god, it's just made it like 10 times worse because now I actually have a problem. 31:52.522 --> 31:54.565 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, 100%. 31:58.069 --> 32:00.813 [SPEAKER_00]: So do you mind me asking like how do you deal with that? 32:02.224 --> 32:25.833 [SPEAKER_00]: That pressure because one of the things that we talk about on the podcast is just the stigma of mental illness or mental health issues and you know people, I'm sure they're not intentionally, I don't know your friends, but I'm assuming that they're not intentionally, you know, causing harm, but I'm just kind of curious like how do you handle that because it is harmful. 32:34.078 --> 32:40.983 [SPEAKER_01]: I think most of my friends just like get it now, also like sometimes like OCD is kind of intense. 32:41.043 --> 32:45.986 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of just like an awesome excuse to be like, sorry. 32:46.006 --> 32:46.726 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't come tonight. 32:46.746 --> 32:50.568 [SPEAKER_01]: I've OCD but like, you know, nobody's going to argue with that. 32:51.369 --> 32:52.830 [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody's going to be like, okay. 32:52.870 --> 32:53.270 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 32:53.290 --> 32:53.510 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. 32:53.550 --> 32:53.991 [SPEAKER_01]: I get it. 32:54.271 --> 32:54.691 [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever. 32:54.711 --> 32:54.791 [SPEAKER_01]: But. 32:59.208 --> 33:09.016 [SPEAKER_01]: When it's like a new situation or somebody I don't know that well and I have to like explain why I like Almost like screamed at them when they tried to take a sip of my drink. 33:10.037 -->

33:12.318 [SPEAKER_01]: I have to be like, I'm so sorry. 33:13.139 --> 33:15.201 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, this is really awkward. 33:15.221 --> 33:17.342 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't share drinks. 33:19.344 --> 33:20.345 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know? 33:22.060 --> 33:51.386 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like I remember when I was in high school and I was working with the I think it was the It was the special Olympics or it was with some kind of it was some kind of event like that and They were trying to recruit volunteers and it was a it was a it was a You know in the auditorium and like some percentage of the schools there and without telling me the person Who was running at the teacher was like hey Mike why don't you come up and tell people about your experience 33:53.342 --> 33:58.005 [SPEAKER_00]: And that was probably meant as a nice, like, hey, you do this, and you've shown leadership in this. 33:58.665 --> 34:04.690 [SPEAKER_00]: I swear, I hate you so much, I hate you for that. 34:04.810 --> 34:07.471 [SPEAKER_00]: I hate, I hate her now right now, I'm thinking about it. 34:07.712 --> 34:18.359 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's kind of like what you're talking about, the anxiety, like when someone just like, hey, you took a sip from my glass, like you don't, you don't realize what you just did in my work. 34:18.979 --> 34:25.643 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like you're you're in your world and you think taking a sip from someone's glass or call, you know, people all they love to talk about their experience. 34:25.703 --> 34:32.586 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, yeah, I, I was like, internally drenched with sweat, you know, and yeah, yeah. 34:33.207 --> 34:35.768 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's hard with because it's like, how do you explain that to someone? 34:36.248 --> 34:37.229 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's bad. 34:37.809 --> 34:38.510 [SPEAKER_01]: That's bad. 34:38.630 --> 34:39.490 [SPEAKER_01]: It's so hard. 34:41.231 --> 34:48.235 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm I'm thinking of so many situations in my head, where it's like, I just had to say like why I did that, you know, like, like, 34:49.270 --> 35:03.179 [SPEAKER_01]: I remember the other day it was like really really hot out in this and I was so if I had one water bottle that I had an open dead and this kid was like I'm so thirsty like I like I need water and I was like I have water like. 35:04.623 --> 35:18.855 [SPEAKER_01]: I have water and if I give him a sip, I'm never going to drink up with that and I was like, okay, here I have water and then I open the water bottle and like chugged like as much as I could and then I just like gave him the rest of the water bottle and I was like, all yours. 35:18.875 --> 35:23.579 [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, really like, all for me and I'm like, all yours, like, I don't want to back click. 35:23.599 --> 35:26.561 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't ever want to touch that again. 35:26.721 --> 35:27.882 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I like morally 35:30.827 --> 35:35.689 [SPEAKER_01]: But I also couldn't share

it, so I had to like, yeah. 35:36.230 --> 35:57.703 [SPEAKER_00]: I got to be honest, that's an awesome solution where you first said I'm like, I don't see how this is going to resolve like I actually think maybe you ask him what I think I would have done was I think I would have did like so can you just like open your mouth and I'm going to I'm going to pour it like I didn't do that because in my head, it's like the germs it's too close. 35:57.903 --> 35:58.063 [SPEAKER_01]: It's. 35:58.103 --> 36:01.485 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was quarter like I can't even do that. 36:01.505 --> 36:03.966 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I think that was an awesome resolution. 36:04.326 --> 36:04.707 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. 36:05.758 --> 36:15.584 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so it's, you know, are there other things that you do that it sounds like like medication was something that you started. 36:16.544 --> 36:23.909 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you feel comfortable talking about like what kind of medication you tried and what's worked and what hasn't. 36:24.809 --> 36:32.294 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I started with so loft and it just like made me way to nauseous, like I couldn't eat. 36:33.233 --> 36:36.794 [SPEAKER_00]: It was just really bad for my stomach and my nausea. 36:37.634 --> 36:41.935 [SPEAKER_01]: And then when that didn't work, I switched to prosak. 36:42.776 --> 36:46.597 [SPEAKER_01]: And I've been on prosak for like a couple of months, a few months, like three months. 36:47.117 --> 36:53.919 [SPEAKER_01]: And so far, like no real side effects other than just like dry mouth, which I think is pretty common with prosak. 36:54.719 --> 36:57.059 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so far it's been good. 36:57.079 --> 36:58.580 [SPEAKER_01]: I started on a pretty low dose. 36:59.440 --> 37:02.883 [SPEAKER_01]: And I've only like changed my dosage like one or two times. 37:02.903 --> 37:13.393 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's been like pretty slow, but yeah, and one of the things that that's I think tough for people when they struggle with anxiety is. 37:14.341 --> 37:18.124 [SPEAKER_00]: They are legitimately very sensitive to the world around them. 37:18.725 --> 37:39.722 [SPEAKER_00]: So like understanding and managing side effects is something that becomes a little bit more complicated because you don't know and you don't know when you're working with someone like, is the side effects they're having, you know, you kind of take every side effect as being real, quote unquote, 37:40.218 --> 37:57.572 [SPEAKER_00]: But then you kind of think like as people get used to it, we'll get better and that's I think one of the top things about, you know, it's really, it's really impressive that you do the medication because a lot of people have those same, the same fears they have about everything that fear is about taking meds because of what it might or might not do. 37:57.952 --> 38:07.799 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was like, I think the reason why I didn't see psychiatrist for so long is because I was so scared to like take meds was like anxious about it 38:10.153 --> 38:17.217 [SPEAKER_01]: Eventually it was just like I can't just like live like this like and I wasn't doing like anything. 38:17.237 --> 38:25.021 [SPEAKER_01]: And you like meditation or anything really in my like day-to-day life to help. 38:26.481 --> 38:33.245 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was sort of just like a couple of years cycle of this and so I was like maybe I could just try it like nothing's permanent. 38:33.865 --> 38:36.526 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm sort of in that like trials so right now. 38:37.167 --> 38:37.427 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 38:38.145 --> 38:42.309 [SPEAKER_00]: And when you're saying like, is meditation something that's helpful for you? 38:43.570 --> 38:47.094 [SPEAKER_01]: I've never tried it, so I don't know, but in my mom doesn't need to do it every day. 38:47.174 --> 38:48.715 [SPEAKER_01]: She's like, have you meditated today? 38:48.755 --> 38:51.898 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, no, does it look like a meditated today? 38:51.958 --> 38:56.042 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, it's so, it's so hard because 38:57.093 --> 39:09.903 [SPEAKER_00]: There are so many things that can work for different people, but sometimes especially if we've been anxious for a long time, we find something that works, we kind of like get very, 39:11.777 --> 39:18.020 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, not preachy necessarily, but we kind of think like, oh, we want to share with the world, this is going to be something for everyone. 39:18.060 --> 39:30.046 [SPEAKER_00]: So whether it's meditation or a certain medication or a certain kind of therapy or exercise, you know, and we assume it's going to work for everyone, but it's not like it not every approach is right for every person. 39:30.827 --> 39:37.190 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, literally, I'm just like, I don't know how to tell you that this works for you and not for me, you know. 39:38.642 --> 40:03.913 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so speaking of things that work, you know, one thing that oftentimes when people are musicians, they find that a lot of stuff gets worked out in the music, but for some people, just like we said before, that may not be the case at all, you know, is, is do you find that that writing and performing it like kind of makes you more or less anxious? 40:06.621 --> 40:10.765 [SPEAKER_01]: It's so funny because whenever I'm writing song, I'm like, I hate this. 40:11.145 --> 40:12.826 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the hardest thing to do ever. 40:12.846 --> 40:14.248 [SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea what I'm doing. 40:14.288 --> 40:15.569 [SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea what I want to say. 40:15.589 --> 40:22.675 [SPEAKER_01]: And then when I finish this song, I'm like, I love this and then I just like listen over and over and over and over until I'm sick of it. 40:23.763 --> 40:40.274 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I just remind myself in the process that like I'm going to get a result, whether I like it or not, and it's going to be something tangible that I can listen to and

then you know, so I keep like pushing myself to finish the song so that I have something that I can reflect on. 40:41.355 --> 40:51.602 [SPEAKER_00]: I love that because I feel like that's that's something that I kind of want for anybody that I'm working with or anybody my life or even for myself that idea of. 40:52.380 --> 41:16.582 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, try as best you can to think of the goal and even if it's even if there's anxiety along the way, even if you have to completely stop doing it because you're so anxious that idea, but like you can come back the next day, you can come back in our later and still there, because I think that what happens for people when they get anxious is they assume that that goal that that maybe even made the anxious, you know, maybe they're meeting someone or 41:17.226 --> 41:19.647 [SPEAKER_00]: writing a song or moving or whatever. 41:19.807 --> 41:21.488 [SPEAKER_00]: It's still there for you to do. 41:22.528 --> 41:26.490 [SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes we feel like once we get anxious, oh, we've blown it. 41:26.610 --> 41:27.070 [SPEAKER_00]: It's over. 41:27.170 --> 41:28.091 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's never going to work. 41:28.711 --> 41:32.212 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I have a million unfinished songs because of that. 41:32.392 --> 41:41.996 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's why I also have trouble sometimes writing songs by myself or like without somebody else at the room like holding me accountable to 41:46.862 --> 41:49.625 [SPEAKER_01]: Second guessing everything that I wrote, and all that. 41:51.366 --> 42:10.004 [SPEAKER_00]: God, you know, it's so tough again with that, because, you know, it's hard to write amazing songs without going over and over, and at least at any time I've heard of someone writing who does the song, they put so much time and energy into it, and, you know, 42:10.393 --> 42:12.215 [SPEAKER_00]: go over and over and over and over again. 42:12.495 --> 42:22.683 [SPEAKER_00]: And so if that's such a hard thing, I feel like it's another example of where it's tough because it's like the anxiety kind of works sometimes, you know, in different ways, even if it's painful. 42:23.584 --> 42:23.904 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 42:23.924 --> 42:27.728 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 42:30.215 --> 42:33.117 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, listen, yeah, thank you so much. 42:33.137 --> 42:34.357 [SPEAKER_00]: This has been great. 42:34.377 --> 42:36.559 [SPEAKER_00]: I really appreciate you sharing the story. 42:37.519 --> 42:42.843 [SPEAKER_00]: I did your music, so it was extra fun for researching for the interview. 42:42.863 --> 42:47.786 [SPEAKER_00]: And like, dive into it even more, not just the songs that I had already known about. 42:48.246 --> 42:54.870 [SPEAKER_00]: And so congratulations on all your success and I really appreciate you stepping up and sharing your story. 42:55.490 --> 42:56.571 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, thank you so much. 42:56.631 --> 42:58.532 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for wanting to talk to me. 42:59.390 --> 42:59.911 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. 43:00.172 --> 43:00.633 [SPEAKER_00]: Take care. 43:00.693 --> 43:01.635 [SPEAKER_00]: Best of luck with everything. 43:01.956 --> 43:02.557 [SPEAKER_01]: Take care. 43:02.597 --> 43:02.898 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks. 43:05.810 --> 43:06.451 [SPEAKER_00]: So there it is. 43:06.831 --> 43:14.737 [SPEAKER_00]: Cloud talking about their struggle with anxiety, as it manifested in generalized anxiety, social anxiety, OCD, and panic. 43:15.237 --> 43:20.201 [SPEAKER_00]: I really appreciate Cloud taking the time to talk about the range of anxiety that they struggle with. 43:20.782 --> 43:30.169 [SPEAKER_00]: It's so helpful for Cloud to share their experience because it helps those of us who struggle with anxiety feel a bit more validated, less stigmatized, and less alone. 43:30.609 --> 43:37.913 [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things I wanted to highlight in the discussion with Claude was something they said about feeling weird, particularly in social situations. 43:38.454 --> 43:43.817 [SPEAKER_00]: When we are anxious, we feel different from others, weird, off, somehow less than. 43:44.577 --> 43:49.060 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the common issue that happens with people with anxiety, specifically social anxiety. 43:49.560 --> 44:00.463 [SPEAKER_00]: We are privy to every symptom of anxiety we have, every uncomfortable thought, every racing heartbeat, shortness of breath, dizziness and numbness that we feel when we are anxious. 44:01.023 --> 44:06.465 [SPEAKER_00]: And we know how many times we've repeated the same thought in our head, or checked something over and over again. 44:07.025 --> 44:12.632 [SPEAKER_00]: And in those moments, we often feel that everyone in the room must be aware of how we're struggling. 44:13.093 --> 44:20.421 [SPEAKER_00]: And this feeling that we are weird, different and alone in our anxiety can make our anxiety feel that much more painful and heightened. 44:21.022 --> 44:22.324 [SPEAKER_00]: And that can happen sometimes. 44:22.604 --> 44:29.695 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes people are judgmental and they pick up on our anxiety, but generally speaking the outside world doesn't know all of that. 44:30.156 --> 44:33.821 [SPEAKER_00]: Most of the time people don't know that we are struggling or how much. 44:34.382 --> 44:37.887 [SPEAKER_00]: So the world doesn't always think we are as weird as we think we are. 44:38.328 --> 44:43.976 [SPEAKER_00]: But also when we feel anxious, we think we are looking at a room of confident, non-anxious people. 44:44.396 --> 44:48.722 [SPEAKER_00]: We think everyone else has their lives together and we are the only ones who are struggling. 44:49.143 --> 44:53.889 [SPEAKER_00]: But this is a good time to consider a common mantra that some people use as a method of coping. 44:54.430 --> 44:57.531 [SPEAKER_01]: don't judge your insides by other people's outsides. 44:58.111 --> 45:04.914 [SPEAKER_00]: Just as we are sitting with our anxiety, so are many other people, regardless of how they may seem externally to you. 45:05.334 --> 45:13.197 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, anxiety is one of the most common emotions we experience and anxiety disorders are among most common mental health issues that people face. 45:13.677 --> 45:20.100 [SPEAKER_00]: So even though we feel so different and less than, our feelings are often not as different from others as we may think. 45:20.560 --> 45:32.690 [SPEAKER_00]: And so when we go into anxiety provoking situations, it's important that we validate our anxiety and try to cope with it as best as we can, knowing that we are not as different or as alone in the struggle as we may think. 45:36.055 --> 45:40.020 [SPEAKER_00]: If you enjoy going there with Dr. Mike, please follow the show and leave us a review. 45:40.361 --> 45:43.905 [SPEAKER_00]: It helps more people discover these conversations and join us each week. 45:44.666 --> 45:49.112 [SPEAKER_00]: And I of course want to thank consequence podcasts network for including me in this wonderful project. 45:49.492 --> 45:53.037 [SPEAKER_00]: And thanks to Pete Wilson and the rooks for letting us use their song, I know. 45:53.277 --> 46:05.520 [SPEAKER_00]: If you are struggling with anxiety, depression, or addiction and are looking for help, please call the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration National Helpline at 1-800-622-4357. 46:05.680 --> 46:12.842 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're thinking about harming yourself and want to seek help, please contact the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline at 988. 46:13.802 --> 46:16.603 [SPEAKER_00]: You may also go to the Consequence website for more information. 46:17.023 --> 46:20.644 [SPEAKER_00]: So be healthy, be safe, and be kind to yourself and others. 46:21.425 --> 46:23.340 [SPEAKER_00]: See you next time at the Crossroads.