Full Transcript for Inside NFL Scouting: What Teams REALLY Look for in Players | Up Close, Too Far Away

00:03:44.639 Well, Dave, man, you know, I'm just sitting there listening 75 00:03:44.659 --> 00:03:46.879 to Dave, man. I like to hear the history because 76 00:03:46.909 --> 00:03:50.270 this dude right here, he and I, we go back, obviously, 77 00:03:50.289 --> 00:03:56.009 to Pittsburgh. And, you know, what he brings to conversations 78 00:03:56.030 --> 00:04:01.629 are just truth. Just years of working in that profession 79 00:04:01.689 --> 00:04:05.389 at that, at that job and he understands what it 80 00:04:05.430 --> 00:04:08.830 takes to, you know, identify players and how to have 81 00:04:08.909 --> 00:04:11.789 conversations with people that are productive. And, you know, we, 82 00:04:11.909 --> 00:04:15.229 you know, coaches and scouts, we're kind of synonymous and 83 00:04:15.270 --> 00:04:17.889 we work together and there's a lot of different conversations 84 00:04:17.949 --> 00:04:21.250 we have. And I've always, you know, trusted, you know, 85 00:04:21.290 --> 00:04:23.430 the things that came out of this man's mouth, because 86 00:04:23.449 --> 00:04:26.129 in the end, there's a lot of things that you see, 87 00:04:26.329 --> 00:04:30.639 but when the players, you know, that, that he recommends 88 00:04:30.699 --> 00:04:33.009 come through, I mean, you, you kind of know what 89 00:04:33.029 --> 00:04:35.730 you're dealing with. And that's, that's the part of it. 90 00:04:35.790 --> 00:04:38.149 That's kind of the shroud that we kind of want 91 00:04:38.189 --> 00:04:41.509 to pull back and let this guy talk about, you know, 92 00:04:41.550 --> 00:04:44.589 how the process really works. And I know how it 93 00:04:44.629 --> 00:04:48.019 works from a coaching standpoint and you get lists and 94 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:50.779 you get all these names and you think that, you know, 95 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:53.600 Hey man, there's going to be some diamond in the 96 00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:56.319 rough in there. And these guys don't miss very often. And, 97 00:04:56.360 --> 00:04:59.240 you know, and if they miss, I mean, it's just, 98 00:04:59.420 --> 00:05:01.970 it's somewhat of an anomaly. I mean, because you just, 99 00:05:02.459 --> 00:05:07.230 You don't know because in this job, again, I'm speaking 100 00:05:07.250 --> 00:05:10.689 from my own experience, not as a personnel guy, but 101 00:05:10.769 --> 00:05:12.490 as a coach, man. 102 00:05:13.029 --> 00:05:15.310 These guys develop relationships with people. 103 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:20.399 And you can't live in a vacuum in that industry 104 00:05:20.459 --> 00:05:24.279 and not have some common things that you can discuss 105 00:05:24.339 --> 00:05:29.649 and find ways to get people to share information that's 106 00:05:29.709 --> 00:05:34.829 important to you. Again, I'm doing it again, but I 107 00:05:34.870 --> 00:05:38.689 got so much respect for this dude. And I've always 108 00:05:38.730 --> 00:05:40.769 had a lot of respect for him from day zero. 109 00:05:41.110 --> 00:05:45.149 And it's an honor, again, to have him sit here 110 00:05:45.209 --> 00:05:48.209 and share some of this information with us. And again, 111 00:05:48.269 --> 00:05:51.730 it's going to pull the veil back for a lot 112 00:05:51.769 --> 00:05:53.850 of people because the process is what it is. 113 00:05:54.069 --> 00:05:54.970 And it's not magic. 114 00:05:56.199 --> 00:05:59.540 Everybody thinks it's some magical elixir that this guy has 115 00:05:59.579 --> 00:06:01.399 his camera at a certain angle and. 116 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:05.079 The dude jumps 70 feet high. No, it don't work 117 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:07.540 that way. It does not work that way. 118 00:06:08.259 --> 00:06:12.329 But Dave, we're going to definitely enjoy hearing what you 119 00:06:12.370 --> 00:06:13.449 got to share with us, dude. 120 00:06:14.430 --> 00:06:18.990 Hey, Sax, I appreciate it, man. You're embellishing just a tad, 121 00:06:19.110 --> 00:06:23.560 but I appreciate it, bro. But hey, I would say this, man. 122 00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:28.490 I'm a product of my professional environment. And the environment 123 00:06:28.509 --> 00:06:31.790 that I was in was so special. And I worked 124 00:06:31.810 --> 00:06:33.930 for some people. I was influenced by some people who 125 00:06:33.970 --> 00:06:38.500 were so special that just living up to their standards 126 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:41.519 and just being accountable to those people made me be 127 00:06:41.579 --> 00:06:43.560 effective at the job because you kind of had no choice. 128 00:06:43.959 --> 00:06:45.050 I worked with a lot of people you didn't want 129 00:06:45.060 --> 00:06:49.560 to let down. And I This is a people business. 130 00:06:49.740 --> 00:06:52.500 It's a relationship business. People think, you know, it's so 131 00:06:52.540 --> 00:06:56.610 much about watching film and watching players. But Sax, you know, 132 00:06:56.649 --> 00:07:00.750 even in your job, man, like watching films, the fun part, right? Like, 133 00:07:00.810 --> 00:07:02.470 cause you can want, you can put on a tape, 134 00:07:03.149 --> 00:07:05.490 you can put on some music, listen to a podcast, 135 00:07:05.529 --> 00:07:07.920 whatever you want to do. And you can sit down 136 00:07:07.939 --> 00:07:10.959 and kind of zone out, watch your film, do whatever. 137 00:07:11.180 --> 00:07:13.759 But you're really not going to get anywhere if there's 138 00:07:13.819 --> 00:07:17.519 no other people involved with that film watching process, right? 139 00:07:17.730 --> 00:07:21.209 So when you go into a school, it's a sales call, essentially. 140 00:07:21.430 --> 00:07:23.649 And for those college guys who are on the road 141 00:07:23.670 --> 00:07:26.589 and everything, you know, just think of it like they're 142 00:07:26.610 --> 00:07:28.889 just working a territory, like a sales job. You go 143 00:07:29.009 --> 00:07:32.329 in and you're making a sales call. at a school 144 00:07:32.870 --> 00:07:34.300 and you

got to go in and you got to 145 00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:36.420 talk to everybody. You got to be on, like you 146 00:07:36.439 --> 00:07:39.300 got to be ready for any conversation to break out 147 00:07:39.540 --> 00:07:43.420 at any time with any person, because it's like a 148 00:07:43.480 --> 00:07:46.000 reporter or like a journalist, like you're only as good 149 00:07:46.050 --> 00:07:48.209 as your sources. So I can sit here and watch 150 00:07:48.250 --> 00:07:50.470 film all by myself and that's me. And I can 151 00:07:50.509 --> 00:07:54.209 write a great report and that's fine. But when the 152 00:07:54.310 --> 00:07:57.550 team is going to make a decision on which players 153 00:07:58.050 --> 00:08:01.769 to invest in, It's like they say, you don't miss 154 00:08:01.810 --> 00:08:04.379 on the player, you miss on the person. And so 155 00:08:04.420 --> 00:08:06.819 much of the job is trying to figure out who 156 00:08:06.839 --> 00:08:11.899 the person is. And you're limited by time. You go 157 00:08:11.939 --> 00:08:13.839 to a school now, especially, man. You go to a 158 00:08:13.879 --> 00:08:16.990 big school and they got 20, 30 guys you got 159 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:19.870 to look at. And you got to be able to, 160 00:08:20.689 --> 00:08:22.949 you can't even really watch film at the school anymore 161 00:08:22.970 --> 00:08:25.389 because you don't have time. So you might watch the 162 00:08:25.410 --> 00:08:27.769 most recent game, but you got to be able to 163 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:32.019 walk around that building in a non-threatening way, in a 164 00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:37.000 non-disrespectful way, and get information to learn about who these 165 00:08:37.059 --> 00:08:40.659 players are. And that's the job. You know, how well 166 00:08:40.700 --> 00:08:43.620 you can do that, how well you can get information, 167 00:08:43.740 --> 00:08:47.000 form these relationships. Because we're all in the football business, 168 00:08:47.019 --> 00:08:50.080 there's that mutual respect. But you go into a school, 169 00:08:50.460 --> 00:08:52.230 they got a job to do, you got a job 170 00:08:52.250 --> 00:08:54.210 to do, and you don't want to ever cross that boundary. 171 00:08:55.330 --> 00:08:58.909 You know, and coaches can get paranoid. all that kind 172 00:08:58.950 --> 00:09:02.460 of stuff. You got to be able to maneuver through 173 00:09:02.500 --> 00:09:06.200 the school. Can coaches get paranoid? Yeah, I was going 174 00:09:06.220 --> 00:09:07.539 to say, coaches get paranoid? 175 00:09:08.120 --> 00:09:13.279 Yeah, because they don't want, I mean, this is crystal 176 00:09:13.299 --> 00:09:17.700 to me. I mean, you just shared something that is 177 00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:20.539 just the importance of it all. 178 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:22.720 It's the relationships, man. I mean, you can't walk. 179 00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:25.480 You want to know if a dude you're potentially picking 180 00:09:25.519 --> 00:09:27.820 in the first

round is going to be able to 181 00:09:27.860 --> 00:09:31.549 show up at critical times. And I mean, we all, 182 00:09:31.889 --> 00:09:35.690 most of us have kids and we know when those 183 00:09:35.809 --> 00:09:38.809 moments that our kids are going to be tested and 184 00:09:38.850 --> 00:09:41.330 we hope that everything we instilled in them is going 185 00:09:41.350 --> 00:09:43.570 to show up at the right time. And that's what 186 00:09:43.610 --> 00:09:47.620 you want out of a person that you are, you know, evaluating. 187 00:09:47.820 --> 00:09:49.419 I mean, you want to try to find out some 188 00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:52.480 things that other people don't know. And you sat in 189 00:09:52.519 --> 00:09:55.360 a building and I'm probably getting to this a little 190 00:09:55.379 --> 00:09:58.100 bit early, but you know, I don't even want to 191 00:09:58.139 --> 00:09:59.889 call the name of the organization except. 192 00:09:59.690 --> 00:10:00.610 For the black and gold. 193 00:10:01.110 --> 00:10:03.049 But there was a dude that sat in that building 194 00:10:03.070 --> 00:10:04.929 when you walked in there, because I got a chance 195 00:10:04.950 --> 00:10:06.909 to only be around the man for four months before 196 00:10:06.950 --> 00:10:10.909 he passed away. And you talk about a legendary human being. 197 00:10:11.450 --> 00:10:15.200 I thought I knew everything it was about evaluating talent, right? 198 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:18.639 So And the guy we're talking about is Bill Nunn, right? 199 00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:20.600 So if you don't know who that is, I suggest 200 00:10:20.620 --> 00:10:22.960 you look it up for a minute. And I'm sure 201 00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:24.980 Dave is going to add some stuff to it. But 202 00:10:25.639 --> 00:10:27.919 I can remember Mr. saying this to me. He says, 203 00:10:28.019 --> 00:10:31.179 what do you like about a player? Especially running back, right? 204 00:10:31.379 --> 00:10:33.539 And I thought, like I said, I thought I knew 205 00:10:33.700 --> 00:10:37.700 every answer, right? I mean, hey, that's an easy one. 206 00:10:37.720 --> 00:10:40.519 I said, well, he's got to have some size. He's 207 00:10:40.539 --> 00:10:42.320 got to have some speed. He said, why do you 208 00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:45.299 like speed? I was like, hold on now, we're going 209 00:10:45.340 --> 00:10:48.120 to a different level. So, I mean, he made you 210 00:10:48.179 --> 00:10:50.379 sit there and think about what you were going to answer. 211 00:10:51.139 --> 00:10:53.830 And for the first time, probably in my career as 212 00:10:53.879 --> 00:10:56.289 a coach, I never had a scout come up to 213 00:10:56.330 --> 00:10:58.769 me or a person. And I knew who I was 214 00:10:58.809 --> 00:11:00.889 talking to, don't get me wrong. And I, you know, 215 00:11:00.909 --> 00:11:01.570 I tried to be. 216 00:11:01.509 --> 00:11:04.289 As respectful as I possibly could, because you're talking. 217 00:11:04.129 --> 00:11:08.039 About a dude who's been around the game or sports 218 00:11:08.259 --> 00:11:11.559 his entire life. So he knows how to push those 219 00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:14.809 buttons to make you think. And that's why, I mean, 220 00:11:14.830 --> 00:11:18.149 the success in a lot of that building that Dave 221 00:11:18.190 --> 00:11:21.570 is talking about, I mean, there's some accountability there. And 222 00:11:21.610 --> 00:11:23.960 it's not in a threatening way, but it's just, hey, man, 223 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:26.879 we don't want to miss. You know, we don't want 224 00:11:26.899 --> 00:11:28.720 to miss. We want to find the guys, the right 225 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:31.879 people to come into this building. And we want them 226 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:36.799 to be effective citizens that are going to be able 227 00:11:36.860 --> 00:11:40.120 to produce at the right times. And that's what I 228 00:11:40.120 --> 00:11:45.299 got from it. And, but, Dave, Dave can talk about 229 00:11:45.340 --> 00:11:46.899 that way more than I can. 230 00:11:47.940 --> 00:11:52.940 So, I mean, yeah, I appreciate, you know, anytime if 231 00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:55.960 I can speak on Bill Nunn, man, I will always 232 00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:58.549 jump at that opportunity. He was, he was that guy, 233 00:11:58.909 --> 00:12:03.169 but I can't sell everybody else short. So just real quick, 234 00:12:03.289 --> 00:12:05.370 I was like telling people this man, when I started, 235 00:12:05.389 --> 00:12:08.450 I mean, it's a long time ago, but we were, 236 00:12:08.490 --> 00:12:11.570 we were a pretty small group. And I'd say our 237 00:12:11.610 --> 00:12:15.000 scouting staff, we probably had seven or eight scouts. I 238 00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:17.600 was the young guy or I was the intern or whatever. 239 00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:20.000 But in our meetings, so we had like seven or 240 00:12:20.019 --> 00:12:24.019 eight scouts. But in our meetings, we had Bill Cowher. 241 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:26.320 I'm sorry. I should have started. We had DMR. We 242 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:30.419 had Mr. Rooney, Ambassador Rooney. We had Bill Cowher. We 243 00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:35.570 had Dick LeBeau. We had Rush Grimm. We had Joe Green. 244 00:12:36.250 --> 00:12:39.509 And we had Bill Nunn. We had... That's a powerful room. 245 00:12:40.110 --> 00:12:40.570 We had. 246 00:12:41.669 --> 00:12:45.049 We had six gold jackets in the room. 247 00:12:45.080 --> 00:12:46.399 All right? 248 00:12:47.159 --> 00:12:51.289 We had six gold jackets in the room. I'm 24, 249 00:12:51.289 --> 00:12:58.019 25 years old. Like, how did I get here? You know? And, Sax, 250 00:12:58.039 --> 00:12:59.409 you know how it is as a young guy. What 251 00:12:59.429 --> 00:13:01.850 was my job? My job was to shut up. 252 00:13:02.149 --> 00:13:06.590 That's right. And whatever those guys had for me. And 253 00:13:06.649 --> 00:13:09.669 not only that, we had six gold jackets, but we 254 00:13:09.690

--> 00:13:12.360 had Kevin Colbert, who, I mean, Kevin's a Hall of 255 00:13:12.379 --> 00:13:15.299 Famer as far as I'm concerned. We had Bruce Arians. 256 00:13:16.059 --> 00:13:19.399 We had Ken Wisenhunt, Ray Horton. And I hate doing 257 00:13:19.419 --> 00:13:21.649 this because I always leave people out. Did I say 258 00:13:21.730 --> 00:13:22.289 Russ Grimm? 259 00:13:23.110 --> 00:13:23.389 Yes. 260 00:13:23.730 --> 00:13:23.950 Yeah. 261 00:13:24.009 --> 00:13:27.210 Okay. You did. We had Ron Hughes who was, he 262 00:13:27.250 --> 00:13:31.389 built the Lions teams in the nineties, Barry Sanders, Herman Moore, 263 00:13:31.409 --> 00:13:33.879 all that kind of stuff. Like we had some real 264 00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:36.899 people in the room and me as a young guy, man, 265 00:13:36.980 --> 00:13:41.710 I've recognized quick, like, And then you replace Coach Cowher 266 00:13:41.730 --> 00:13:44.350 with Coach Tomlin. So he's a Hall of Famer as well. 267 00:13:44.789 --> 00:13:47.000 So getting back to what I said when we first started, 268 00:13:47.049 --> 00:13:51.139 those are the guys who I had to be accountable to. 269 00:13:51.279 --> 00:13:55.759 And they were, above everything, they were respectable. And it's 270 00:13:57.600 --> 00:13:59.799 how could I come in or anybody really come in 271 00:13:59.820 --> 00:14:05.720 with an ego when Coach LeBeau won't drink anything his 272 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:08.179 Coke at the table. Cause he doesn't want to make 273 00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:10.860 a master's disrespect. When he goes another room, takes a 274 00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:12.659 sip of his Coke and comes back and sits down. 275 00:14:13.899 --> 00:14:16.480 He's doing stuff like that. What am I going to do? 276 00:14:16.539 --> 00:14:18.480 I'm not going to have any kind of attitude, you know, 277 00:14:20.019 --> 00:14:22.799 but yeah. So, you know, getting to getting to coach none. 278 00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:27.720 So when I started my job, because when we went 279 00:14:27.740 --> 00:14:31.019 to training camp, training camp was, it was, it's on 280 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:33.000 the trove. It was like an hour, 20 minutes outside 281 00:14:33.019 --> 00:14:35.669 of Pittsburgh. And they, They were like, hey, your job is, 282 00:14:35.929 --> 00:14:37.929 I had to drive back and forth every day, get 283 00:14:37.970 --> 00:14:41.389 the mail. This is the olden days, man. I was 284 00:14:41.409 --> 00:14:45.429 a liaison. The intern was always a liaison. Taking deliveries 285 00:14:45.470 --> 00:14:47.779 from camp to the office, then from the office back 286 00:14:47.820 --> 00:14:49.500 up to camp. But they'd say, hey, you had to 287 00:14:49.539 --> 00:14:52.220 drive Bill Nunn. And I didn't know who he was. 288 00:14:52.279 --> 00:14:54.259 I was ignorant. I'm a young dude. I was ignorant. 289 00:14:54.299 --> 00:14:57.460 I know who he was. So, fine, I take on, 290 00:14:57.480 --> 00:15:01.440 you know, older gentlemen and everything, and probably didn't say 291 00:15:01.500 --> 00:15:04.879 much that first time. And then when he would start 292 00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:08.029 talking and same thing that he said to sacks, like 293 00:15:08.429 --> 00:15:10.789 he would ask me, you know, what I thought about 294 00:15:10.830 --> 00:15:14.190 a player, like what I look for, but he would 295 00:15:14.250 --> 00:15:16.789 never tell you, you were wrong. He would just listen 296 00:15:16.830 --> 00:15:20.750 to what you had to say. And he would never say, no, 297 00:15:20.789 --> 00:15:22.049 you got to do this. You got to do that. 298 00:15:22.250 --> 00:15:25.490 And really nobody was like that. Kevin wasn't like that. 299 00:15:25.629 --> 00:15:28.929 Ronnie wasn't like that. None of those guys were like that. 300 00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:31.600 So you were able to kind of find your voice, but, 301 00:15:32.309 --> 00:15:33.690 All you had to do was kind of pay attention 302 00:15:33.710 --> 00:15:38.269 to the legends that you were surrounded by. So Bill Nunn, 303 00:15:40.289 --> 00:15:44.059 I think we have some pictures of him. As I 304 00:15:44.100 --> 00:15:46.559 got to know him, he was a Hall of Famer 305 00:15:47.220 --> 00:15:50.600 before he was ever a scout. He was a legend 306 00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:55.139 before that. He was the sports editor for the Pittsburgh Courier. 307 00:15:55.179 --> 00:15:58.120 And at the time, the Pittsburgh Courier and the Chicago 308 00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:01.389 Defender were the two biggest black newspapers in the country. 309 00:16:02.149 --> 00:16:05.330 So he was the sports editor and the way he 310 00:16:05.370 --> 00:16:08.370 got the job with the Steelers was he, as a, 311 00:16:08.620 --> 00:16:10.539 as a sports writer, he made it, he would have 312 00:16:10.580 --> 00:16:13.220 like a black college, all American team. And he would 313 00:16:13.240 --> 00:16:15.559 go to those schools and write them up and everything 314 00:16:15.620 --> 00:16:20.230 and have his all American team. The point is he 315 00:16:20.269 --> 00:16:23.669 had a relationship with the Rooney somehow. And then he 316 00:16:23.730 --> 00:16:27.860 had access to those schools and he, the access to 317 00:16:27.899 --> 00:16:29.720 those schools and the players that came out of those 318 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:33.480 schools went a long way to the Steelers having their 319 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:36.759 dynasty in the seventies and Bill Nunn. But the thing 320 00:16:36.870 --> 00:16:41.029 is like, everybody always thinks that's the story, but he 321 00:16:41.070 --> 00:16:45.450 scouted everybody, but his in like his niche where they 322 00:16:45.509 --> 00:16:48.029 had their advantage, you know, you hear like money ball 323 00:16:48.129 --> 00:16:50.590 and everybody's always looking for that competitive advantage. Well, that 324 00:16:50.649 --> 00:16:53.940 was the Steelers competitive advantage in the seventies. They found the, 325 00:16:54.649

--> 00:16:56.720 a hole in the market that they get exploit. And 326 00:16:56.740 --> 00:16:58.720 there's a lot of talent there. And that's kind of 327 00:16:58.740 --> 00:17:00.460 how they, that was a big way that they built 328 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:03.820 their teams, but he wasn't just, you know, like he, 329 00:17:04.119 --> 00:17:07.380 he didn't just scout, he scouted everybody all over the place. 330 00:17:07.579 --> 00:17:09.500 You know, he scouted Lynn Swan and all those guys too. 331 00:17:09.559 --> 00:17:12.039 Those guys went to USC, you know, but the thing 332 00:17:12.099 --> 00:17:15.220 about none too, is like I said, he was, he 333 00:17:15.259 --> 00:17:16.619 was one of those guys where he was a link. 334 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:18.960 He's a link to the past. I talk about driving 335 00:17:19.009 --> 00:17:19.569 up to camp. 336 00:17:20.529 --> 00:17:22.890 You know, when we'd be back in the office, he 337 00:17:22.930 --> 00:17:25.940 would have, Sometimes you'd have to give him a ride home. 338 00:17:25.799 --> 00:17:30.000 Because he was getting older and stuff. And Gorsak, the legendary, 339 00:17:30.220 --> 00:17:33.099 legendary Mark Gorsak termed it. He had the best term 340 00:17:33.140 --> 00:17:36.119 for it. He called it the long goodbye. So you take, 341 00:17:36.299 --> 00:17:38.440 you take Nunn home and he had this, his house 342 00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:41.170 is unbelievable. Million dollar view of the city and everything. 343 00:17:42.089 --> 00:17:44.529 You pull up to his house and you know, you 344 00:17:44.549 --> 00:17:46.829 got your foot on the brake and Nunn's telling the story. 345 00:17:46.849 --> 00:17:49.089 You just sit there like you listen to the story, right? 346 00:17:50.950 --> 00:17:53.029 he keeps talking you put the car in park you 347 00:17:53.049 --> 00:17:55.099 know you like we'll be here for a minute okay 348 00:17:55.460 --> 00:17:57.700 none keeps telling the story you end up cutting the 349 00:17:57.740 --> 00:18:00.480 car off he's still telling the story next thing you 350 00:18:00.500 --> 00:18:04.849 know you're in his house you know but he's he 351 00:18:04.869 --> 00:18:09.759 started telling the stories he'd be talking about uh He 352 00:18:09.779 --> 00:18:11.589 would just say a name, like, oh, yeah, you know, 353 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:14.250 and then Jackie, what Jackie did. He'd be like, wait 354 00:18:14.289 --> 00:18:16.450 a minute, no, I'm like, who are you talking, Jackie? 355 00:18:16.549 --> 00:18:18.569 Who's Jackie? He'd be like, Jackie Robinson, who do you 356 00:18:18.589 --> 00:18:19.490 think I'm talking about? 357 00:18:20.450 --> 00:18:20.809 You know? 358 00:18:21.470 --> 00:18:24.799 But, and then it would hit you, you know, you're 359 00:18:24.819 --> 00:18:26.599 sitting in a car and you're like, man, he's talking 360 00:18:26.619 --> 00:18:29.319 about Jackie Robinson because he knows her. 361 00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:30.000 Right, right. 362 00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:35.420 Bobby Jackson. Bobby Clemente before he was Roberto Clemente. None 363 00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:38.970 would talk about how he drove Clemente to the airport 364 00:18:39.170 --> 00:18:42.390 after the 1960 World Series, after Bill Mazeroski hit the 365 00:18:42.589 --> 00:18:46.029 famous Game 7 walk-off. None was talking about taking Clemente 366 00:18:46.049 --> 00:18:49.470 to the airport and their conversations. I mean, he was 367 00:18:49.529 --> 00:18:53.759 just a link. He was a link to the past, 368 00:18:53.859 --> 00:18:54.279 and none. 369 00:18:55.799 --> 00:18:58.680 Through the years, like, we would talk ball, but he 370 00:18:58.759 --> 00:19:01.960 always was kind of schooling me on making sure, like, 371 00:19:02.420 --> 00:19:04.859 I had some awareness about some other things, you know, like, 372 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:09.400 and to be honest, none knew everybody. I'm talking. 373 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:11.759 Everybody. Right. 374 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:14.799 Both sides of the tracks of the fence. 375 00:19:14.900 --> 00:19:18.500 Oh, yeah. There's no question. You can't survive unless you do. 376 00:19:18.539 --> 00:19:22.980 Not in football. Now, he was related to the actor, too, right? 377 00:19:23.180 --> 00:19:27.710 Bill Nunn, the... Right. Right, right. So it's like William 378 00:19:27.809 --> 00:19:32.759 Nunn Sr. is the dad. He was the editor of 379 00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:37.720 the Pittsburgh Courier. Bill Nunn, who I'm talking about, was 380 00:19:37.779 --> 00:19:42.119 his son. And then Bill Nunn Jr., the gunner man. 381 00:19:42.140 --> 00:19:48.490 Radio rock city yeah the dead man yeah radio right 382 00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:52.200 that blew me away it blew me away i was. 383 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:55.079 Working there for two weeks right so we're staying in 384 00:19:55.099 --> 00:19:58.700 temporary housing right and i'm like you know i think 385 00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:00.640 i met him probably the first day i was there 386 00:20:00.660 --> 00:20:03.440 had to right during the interview or whatever and i'm 387 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:06.480 sitting there i'm like none none so and nobody you 388 00:20:06.500 --> 00:20:12.730 know He's just that impressive. You know, his aura or 389 00:20:12.769 --> 00:20:17.559 his presence was never overwhelming. It was very welcoming. And 390 00:20:17.579 --> 00:20:20.480 any time you talk, I mean, you just, he just, 391 00:20:20.539 --> 00:20:22.980 you were just drawn to him. I mean, even if 392 00:20:23.019 --> 00:20:24.559 you didn't know who he was, I mean, this dude, 393 00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:27.220 you were just drawn to him. And I'm screwing around 394 00:20:27.259 --> 00:20:28.240 on my computer at home. 395 00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:31.400 I'm like, what? I Google him. I'm like, that's his, 396 00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:35.079 that's his son. You know, I'm like the dead man already. 397 00:20:35.099 --> 00:20:38.079 So I'm sitting there. I

mean, most parents would be like, yeah, 398 00:20:38.119 --> 00:20:39.920 my son does this. Nah, you wouldn't. 399 00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:42.069 If I didn't find out, I would have never known. 400 00:20:42.109 --> 00:20:44.130 I would probably had to ask somebody else in the building. 401 00:20:44.609 --> 00:20:45.329 Never needed to. 402 00:20:45.589 --> 00:20:48.789 Right. And I never, I just knew that from that 403 00:20:48.869 --> 00:20:51.089 point on, this dude is different. I mean, he's different. 404 00:20:51.150 --> 00:20:52.710 And I, you know, again, I only got to be 405 00:20:52.730 --> 00:20:54.880 around a man for four months before he passed away. 406 00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:59.470 And I wish that I had some of Dave's, uh, um, 407 00:21:00.099 --> 00:21:03.059 chances to be around that space. Here's the, the, the 408 00:21:03.099 --> 00:21:06.460 story that I think that the lesson out of both 409 00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:09.819 Dave and I, and my minimum amount of time around, 410 00:21:09.980 --> 00:21:12.700 when you're around somebody of that kind of significance, man, 411 00:21:13.309 --> 00:21:16.430 you got to understand that you got to, if you 412 00:21:16.450 --> 00:21:18.809 want to learn, you got two ears and one mouth 413 00:21:18.910 --> 00:21:21.309 and you need to sit there and soak up as 414 00:21:21.410 --> 00:21:24.609 much as you possibly can. And you would help yourself 415 00:21:25.410 --> 00:21:27.759 if you had a clothes pin to put on your lips. 416 00:21:29.660 --> 00:21:30.240 Absolutely. 417 00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:32.509 So, I mean, this dude, man, was. 418 00:21:32.849 --> 00:21:35.349 I mean, we could talk about this man for the 419 00:21:35.410 --> 00:21:38.190 rest of our lives and find relevance in every kind 420 00:21:38.230 --> 00:21:44.009 of comment. And he literally helped that organization become what 421 00:21:44.069 --> 00:21:48.200 they were. I mean, he is Mr. I mean, I 422 00:21:48.220 --> 00:21:51.039 don't know anybody in Western PA that has the magnitude 423 00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:53.799 of that. I mean, you're talking about a dude. He 424 00:21:53.859 --> 00:21:56.180 said something to me one time, and I think the 425 00:21:56.220 --> 00:21:59.329 movie 42 was just out or just had come out. 426 00:21:59.859 --> 00:22:02.500 He was like, you know Wendell? And I'm sitting there 427 00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:03.720 talking about the movie 40 G. 428 00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:06.519 I was like, Wendell? Who the heck is Wendell? Wendell, 429 00:22:06.539 --> 00:22:08.309 the dude from the movie. The dude was riding around 430 00:22:08.329 --> 00:22:11.730 with Jackie Robinson. He worked for me. I was like, 431 00:22:11.849 --> 00:22:14.150 are you kidding me? 432 00:22:14.829 --> 00:22:17.910 The guy that took all the pictures and stuff, the photographer. No, 433 00:22:17.950 --> 00:22:24.500 that's not Wendell. No, that's Teenie Harris. That was somebody else. 434 00:22:24.539 --> 00:22:28.210 Teenie's

the photographer. Yeah, it took all the pictures. Yeah, 435 00:22:28.369 --> 00:22:29.950 it took all the pictures. That was the thing. 436 00:22:29.990 --> 00:22:33.990 Like, so everybody who came through town, if you were black, 437 00:22:34.609 --> 00:22:36.029 you had to go by the courier. 438 00:22:36.529 --> 00:22:36.730 Yeah. 439 00:22:36.750 --> 00:22:39.890 Because that's how you got your publicity. You probably had 440 00:22:39.930 --> 00:22:42.329 to stay around there because that was the black community 441 00:22:42.369 --> 00:22:47.519 and everything. The Hill District of Pittsburgh. And so everybody 442 00:22:47.559 --> 00:22:50.400 would come through. And I remember, like, I was like, no, 443 00:22:50.420 --> 00:22:54.000 did you? I was like, because I would mess with him, too, 444 00:22:54.019 --> 00:22:55.259 because he was so old. 445 00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:55.599 Right. 446 00:22:55.660 --> 00:22:55.799 So. 447 00:22:56.700 --> 00:22:59.160 I'd be like, I remember one time I was like, hey, Nunn, 448 00:22:59.180 --> 00:23:01.500 were you at the Jack Johnson, Jim Jefferies fight? 449 00:23:02.859 --> 00:23:03.640 He got mad. 450 00:23:04.099 --> 00:23:07.220 He's like, I'm not that old. That fight was in 451 00:23:07.220 --> 00:23:09.259 1910 or something, right? He's like, hey, he got mad 452 00:23:09.299 --> 00:23:12.789 at me. But then I'd say, I'd be like, did 453 00:23:12.809 --> 00:23:14.369 you ever see, I still be messing with him. I'd 454 00:23:14.410 --> 00:23:16.349 be like, did you ever see Paul Robeson play? 455 00:23:17.049 --> 00:23:17.970 And he's like, no, I. 456 00:23:17.930 --> 00:23:21.890 Didn't see Paul Robeson play. But he met him. He's like, 457 00:23:21.910 --> 00:23:23.380 but I talked to him a couple of times. 458 00:23:23.579 --> 00:23:30.279 Right, right, yeah. And Robeson plays football to Rutgers. Or 459 00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:33.039 he went to Rutgers. Yeah, he's a Rutgers guy. 460 00:23:33.660 --> 00:23:36.619 And he would be at the, Nunn went to, like, 461 00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:40.059 who was it? Floyd Patterson. Was it Archie Moore? 462 00:23:40.079 --> 00:23:44.220 Not Rocky Marciano. Floyd Patterson and I don't remember. 463 00:23:44.349 --> 00:23:45.049 Ezra Charles. 464 00:23:45.190 --> 00:23:45.750 Ezra Charles. 465 00:23:45.829 --> 00:23:46.589 Okay. 466 00:23:47.130 --> 00:23:51.849 Like, he would be at their training camps. Because, you know, 467 00:23:51.890 --> 00:23:55.210 boxing was the thing, right? So this was before he 468 00:23:55.230 --> 00:23:57.910 was with the Steelers. And he would go to those 469 00:23:57.950 --> 00:24:00.710 training camps, and he'd be the reporter that was writing, like, 470 00:24:00.829 --> 00:24:05.640 on location, Floyd Patterson, before his big fight. I believe 471 00:24:07.059 --> 00:24:11.910 he was at one of the... I don't, I get, 472 00:24:12.009 --> 00:24:15.349 he was probably Clay at the time, like Cassius Clay, 473 00:24:15.390 --> 00:24:17.630 Sonny Liston fights. I don't know if he was at 474 00:24:17.690 --> 00:24:19.230 both of them, but I know he was at one 475 00:24:19.250 --> 00:24:23.269 of them. And what else? What other fight? I think 476 00:24:23.309 --> 00:24:25.210 that was it. But I mean, he went to a 477 00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:28.920 bunch of them. That was what he did before he even, 478 00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:31.480 he had stories. He was a legend before that. 479 00:24:32.059 --> 00:24:33.019 But he was just great. 480 00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:36.059 You know, and the thing is, everybody talks about the 481 00:24:36.059 --> 00:24:40.230 1974 draft, which was awesome. All those first rounders. he 482 00:24:40.289 --> 00:24:44.410 scouted for 40 more years after that, you know, and 483 00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:47.819 the amount of people that he came in contact with 484 00:24:48.099 --> 00:24:51.839 and trained and had the same conversations with me. So like, 485 00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:56.119 I'm not really that unique. I'm sharing right now, but 486 00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:59.039 the stories that he had with, you know, Dan Colbert, 487 00:24:59.259 --> 00:25:02.829 B Hunt, Doug Whaley, like Luke, like all of us, 488 00:25:03.069 --> 00:25:05.529 he never wrote a book, but collectively, like he gave 489 00:25:05.589 --> 00:25:07.470 us enough that we could all come together. And the 490 00:25:07.509 --> 00:25:10.109 book would be about this thick. but we would never, 491 00:25:10.210 --> 00:25:13.289 but we would never do that. So, but yeah, I mean, 492 00:25:13.349 --> 00:25:15.309 it was, it was, it was a special time. And 493 00:25:16.250 --> 00:25:19.029 you know, when I started, I started with me and 494 00:25:19.049 --> 00:25:22.400 Joe green started on the same day. So we're, I'm 495 00:25:22.420 --> 00:25:25.619 working with Joe and they're training us up at camp 496 00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:28.500 and I'm not stupid. I know who Joe green is, 497 00:25:28.539 --> 00:25:33.319 you know, and, and Joe, we would do these seminars 498 00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:35.420 to train the scouts. And it was just me and him. 499 00:25:35.549 --> 00:25:38.420 And we're watching film. Joe's like, He goes, what'd you 500 00:25:38.460 --> 00:25:42.359 think about that young man? Cause Joe is people. That's 501 00:25:42.380 --> 00:25:45.000 how Joe talks. What'd you think of that young man? 502 00:25:46.609 --> 00:25:50.509 You know, like trying to like try to act like 503 00:25:50.549 --> 00:25:53.130 I do what I was talking about, but he really 504 00:25:53.170 --> 00:25:56.230 just asked me a question, you know? So, but I, I, 505 00:25:56.849 --> 00:25:58.329 I spent a lot of time with them. They'd be 506 00:25:58.349 --> 00:26:01.319 in draft meetings and it'd be quiet. Joe and none 507 00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:03.299 would be in the back whispering, but they were kind 508 00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:05.339 of old. So they're, you know, how like old people 509 00:26:05.400 -->

00:26:11.950 whisper real loud. So everybody could hear him. But nobody 510 00:26:11.990 --> 00:26:12.990 would tell him to. 511 00:26:12.950 --> 00:26:15.789 Be quiet either. 512 00:26:15.890 --> 00:26:16.869 Like Dave, knock it off. 513 00:26:17.470 --> 00:26:23.670 Right, right, right. Those are priceless. Those are priceless experiences. 514 00:26:23.730 --> 00:26:28.279 Those are priceless memories, man. I want to take you 515 00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:29.160 out to the West Coast. 516 00:26:29.559 --> 00:26:33.220 Because I know you were out on the West Coast with, 517 00:26:33.460 --> 00:26:35.619 I'll say USC, but we got to be careful with 518 00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:38.529 USC because, see, I'm in South Carolina, and USC is 519 00:26:38.569 --> 00:26:42.109 University of South Carolina, but we're talking University of Southern Cal. 520 00:26:42.349 --> 00:26:47.230 Right, right, right. I know. And you had T-Cuz on a. 521 00:26:47.210 --> 00:26:51.730 Couple of years ago. Yeah, yeah, we had T-Cuz, yeah. 522 00:26:51.769 --> 00:26:55.410 Yeah. But, yeah, tell me about your work out there, 523 00:26:55.430 --> 00:26:58.299 you know, everything that's been going on out there. Yeah. 524 00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:00.839 So when I started out there, you know, young guy 525 00:27:01.140 --> 00:27:04.460 in the West coast pack, I think it was, it 526 00:27:04.500 --> 00:27:06.180 was the pack 10. I don't know. It might've been 527 00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:09.450 the pack 12 back then, but like back then for 528 00:27:09.470 --> 00:27:14.230 a young guy learning, learning the business. I mean, it 529 00:27:14.250 --> 00:27:19.609 was unbelievable. USC was back then. We're talking mid two thousands. 530 00:27:19.809 --> 00:27:23.089 USC was the Georgia, the Alabama's that they are today. 531 00:27:23.410 --> 00:27:25.420 You know, that you see today, like, they had all 532 00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:27.660 the players, but it was LA, you know? So you 533 00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:31.339 go to practice, the practices were rough. Like it was, man, 534 00:27:31.420 --> 00:27:33.829 you watched practice and you felt like you went through practice, 535 00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:36.490 but it was a, it was a scene, you know? 536 00:27:36.509 --> 00:27:38.650 And we're talking, that was Reggie Bush, all that kind 537 00:27:38.690 --> 00:27:40.549 of stuff. So that's when I kind of got to 538 00:27:40.690 --> 00:27:42.710 cut my teeth. There was a lot of talent out 539 00:27:42.750 --> 00:27:44.250 there because there was a lot of big high schools 540 00:27:44.289 --> 00:27:48.549 like Long Beach Poly, De La Salle, the schools in 541 00:27:48.630 --> 00:27:50.569 Oakland and everything like that. Like there was a lot 542 00:27:50.589 --> 00:27:52.390 of good players out there. So that's kind of where 543 00:27:53.059 --> 00:27:56.730 I learned how to, you know, maneuver, kind of found 544 00:27:56.769 --> 00:27:59.630 my voice, hone my craft, if you will. Yeah, it 545 00:27:59.670 --> 00:28:04.509 was a good time. And it was enough good players 546 00:28:04.529 --> 00:28:05.869 that it wasn't overwhelming. 547 00:28:07.849 --> 00:28:12.069 Okay, I'm going to bring the controversy right now. 548 00:28:12.509 --> 00:28:14.789 So you just said you were in California. 549 00:28:14.809 --> 00:28:18.569 So we always hear about California football, Texas football, and 550 00:28:18.589 --> 00:28:19.349 Florida football. 551 00:28:20.859 --> 00:28:22.039 What do you think? Which one has. 552 00:28:22.069 --> 00:28:24.509 We're going to throw Pennsylvania in there. 553 00:28:24.829 --> 00:28:27.750 Okay, and Pennsylvania. We're going to throw Pennsylvania in there, too. 554 00:28:28.329 --> 00:28:32.730 I mean, I could say Pennsylvania, but that's just... I mean, look, 555 00:28:32.910 --> 00:28:35.670 if you look around, I mean, I think you left 556 00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:40.259 out Georgia. Okay. I like to talk about them, but okay. 557 00:28:41.019 --> 00:28:43.960 South Carolina. No, but I mean. 558 00:28:44.609 --> 00:28:49.470 Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, Florida, those are, yeah, I mean, that's 559 00:28:49.869 --> 00:28:52.069 kind of where it's at right now. California's good for 560 00:28:52.130 --> 00:28:55.529 population and everything, but, I mean, and the South, man, like, 561 00:28:55.549 --> 00:28:59.250 they live and breathe it. That is, that's what, like, 562 00:28:59.710 --> 00:29:02.039 they're playing real football down there. Like, they don't mess around. 563 00:29:03.450 --> 00:29:03.650 Yeah. 564 00:29:04.170 --> 00:29:05.099 Well, California. 565 00:29:05.380 --> 00:29:08.859 You can't compare the, I got a soft spot for 566 00:29:08.900 --> 00:29:12.180 California and everything, but, when it comes to football, but, 567 00:29:13.029 --> 00:29:14.160 All you got to do is kind of look at 568 00:29:14.180 --> 00:29:15.990 the teams and the rosters and the NFL, see where 569 00:29:16.009 --> 00:29:16.990 the players are coming from. 570 00:29:17.230 --> 00:29:19.569 Well, yeah, that's true. 571 00:29:19.630 --> 00:29:21.369 I'm not going to dispute it, but I'm going to 572 00:29:21.390 --> 00:29:24.970 say that population pool has got to push out some really, 573 00:29:25.009 --> 00:29:27.170 really good ones. And they pushed out some really, really 574 00:29:27.190 --> 00:29:31.049 good ones. And I just think that all of them, 575 00:29:31.289 --> 00:29:33.349 whether they're coming from the South or they're coming from 576 00:29:33.509 --> 00:29:37.509 Texas or Georgia or wherever, those guys, they get well 577 00:29:37.569 --> 00:29:39.809 coached for the most part when they come out of 578 00:29:39.829 --> 00:29:42.799 those programs. For the most part, they're prepared. This is 579 00:29:42.859 --> 00:29:45.779 leading into a question for me. I just want you 580 00:29:45.819 --> 00:29:49.630 just to share with people the myth of getting evaluated 581 00:29:49.690 --> 00:29:53.089 as a prospect.

You're a prospect. This NIL thing is crazy. 582 00:29:53.150 --> 00:29:55.069 I ain't even trying to shift it. I'm just talking 583 00:29:55.089 --> 00:29:58.569 about going from college to the NFL. Scouts like you 584 00:29:59.390 --> 00:30:03.250 see that pushes a guy up in the draft or 585 00:30:03.769 --> 00:30:06.609 maybe even pushes them completely out of the draft. What 586 00:30:06.650 --> 00:30:08.589 are some key factors that are going to keep a 587 00:30:08.630 --> 00:30:11.640 guy that's a prospect, not anybody in particular, but a 588 00:30:11.670 --> 00:30:14.680 typical prospect, a guy, how much time do you spend 589 00:30:14.740 --> 00:30:17.200 on one guy? I mean, what kind of tape do 590 00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:20.539 you spend? And, you know, just share that with us. 591 00:30:21.099 --> 00:30:24.339 Yeah, so if you're talking about, you know, the college process, 592 00:30:24.559 --> 00:30:27.309 obviously you're going to watch your film, minimum of three games, 593 00:30:27.349 --> 00:30:29.289 which you're going to watch on the guy. You're going 594 00:30:29.309 --> 00:30:32.490 to spend all kinds of hours talking to people. And 595 00:30:32.509 --> 00:30:35.230 this is for every player, to be honest. Like you're 596 00:30:35.250 --> 00:30:38.730 going to, I'll explain a visit. You go in, they 597 00:30:38.769 --> 00:30:41.500 set you up for film. You watch your film. Pro 598 00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:44.339 liaison comes around. You go talk to the pro liaison. 599 00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:46.980 They're going to go through every player that you need to, 600 00:30:47.779 --> 00:30:50.579 that they're going to recommend, which is pretty much the 601 00:30:50.599 --> 00:30:53.240 big schools, pretty much everybody on their roster, you know, 602 00:30:53.269 --> 00:30:55.910 that's draft eligible. And then you're going to talk to 603 00:30:55.950 --> 00:30:58.319 the strength coach. Then you're going to go to practice. 604 00:30:58.339 --> 00:31:00.200 You're going to get your body types. You're going to 605 00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:02.799 talk to whoever you can talk to at practice. Maybe sometimes, 606 00:31:03.400 --> 00:31:05.980 it depends, but head coach might come over and talk 607 00:31:06.019 --> 00:31:08.059 to you, give you a little update on the kid, 608 00:31:08.099 --> 00:31:10.519 a little information on the kid. Sometimes the kids might 609 00:31:10.539 --> 00:31:12.809 be able to, if the school is okay with it, 610 00:31:13.500 --> 00:31:14.849 then the kids are going to come over and talk 611 00:31:14.869 --> 00:31:18.190 to you. And then you got to compile all that information, 612 00:31:18.910 --> 00:31:21.589 put it in a report, submit it to your team. 613 00:31:21.829 --> 00:31:25.289 And it's not done, but you just put it to rest. 614 00:31:25.630 --> 00:31:28.329 That's in the fall. Then you come back. In the spring, 615 00:31:28.349 --> 00:31:31.720 you're going to start seeing these kids at All-Star Games. 616 00:31:32.180 --> 00:31:33.740 You'll see them at the Combine. You'll see them at 617 00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:36.400 their Pro Days. So it's a full, what is that, 618 00:31:36.460 --> 00:31:41.339 like seven, eight-month evaluation. Actually, people really do start in 619 00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:45.569 June with the summer film. So it's about a 10-month 620 00:31:45.589 --> 00:31:48.549 evaluation process per class. 621 00:31:49.910 --> 00:31:54.789 Yeah, because a lot of guys, people don't really understand 622 00:31:54.809 --> 00:31:59.769 the time. I mean, you're talking about 100, 200, maybe 623 00:31:59.769 --> 00:32:02.349 300 guys. I mean, if you've got a position, I mean, 624 00:32:02.369 --> 00:32:05.210 a whole group of scouts, I mean, you guys have 625 00:32:05.269 --> 00:32:08.470 identified a number of players. And then you've got to 626 00:32:08.509 --> 00:32:11.690 go through the process of trying to which position you get. 627 00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:14.799 You might have, like, two or three positions on offense 628 00:32:14.839 --> 00:32:17.240 or maybe two or three positions on defense. Or even 629 00:32:17.259 --> 00:32:19.319 you might have the whole size. I mean, when you 630 00:32:19.339 --> 00:32:21.819 first start now, you're probably looking at all the guys 631 00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:25.940 that are prospects. And it's... The process is a long process. 632 00:32:26.140 --> 00:32:26.259 And. 633 00:32:26.849 --> 00:32:31.609 You know, so for the player, right, who's sitting out 634 00:32:31.630 --> 00:32:33.430 there trying to listen, trying to figure out, hey, man, 635 00:32:33.470 --> 00:32:35.759 how does this whole thing work? And, you know, everybody's 636 00:32:35.799 --> 00:32:38.200 got– if you're going to get these agents, the agents 637 00:32:38.299 --> 00:32:40.740 are telling them, man, I don't know the last time 638 00:32:40.759 --> 00:32:43.539 an agent ever got a guy drafted. I mean, he 639 00:32:43.579 --> 00:32:45.140 might be able to help them with some other things, 640 00:32:45.180 --> 00:32:46.119 but he ain't going to be able to help them 641 00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:50.950 with the actual– production this kid has, not just on 642 00:32:50.970 --> 00:32:52.890 the field, but off the field too, man. Cause this, 643 00:32:53.269 --> 00:32:55.910 it's a major investment. I mean, guys have knocked themselves 644 00:32:55.950 --> 00:32:59.839 completely out of it. Um, for, for some, for things 645 00:32:59.880 --> 00:33:03.940 that are just not conducive to what a team is 646 00:33:03.980 --> 00:33:04.500 looking for. 647 00:33:05.079 --> 00:33:07.799 And I, and again, nobody's perfect. 648 00:33:07.819 --> 00:33:11.000 And, you know, young people as they should, they should 649 00:33:11.119 --> 00:33:14.640 understand that, Hey man, it's okay to make mistakes, man. 650 00:33:14.660 --> 00:33:16.089 Just as long as you can recover from them. 651 00:33:16.890 --> 00:33:19.829 And, So you just, you move that

way and you 652 00:33:19.849 --> 00:33:23.130 just keep growing and be where you're supposed to be 653 00:33:23.170 --> 00:33:25.490 when you need to be and play good football. 654 00:33:26.339 --> 00:33:26.599 Right. 655 00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:29.380 Absolutely. And that's the thing though, man. It's like, you know, 656 00:33:29.420 --> 00:33:31.680 some guys, it's kind of like anything in life. Like 657 00:33:31.700 --> 00:33:34.119 some guys are going to eliminate themselves based off of 658 00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:38.940 what they do off the field. And when we go 659 00:33:39.009 --> 00:33:42.210 through it as a group, it happens like that. Hey, 660 00:33:42.769 --> 00:33:45.910 you like this guy? Yeah, he's all right. He got 661 00:33:45.950 --> 00:33:48.710 some stuff in his background. move on to the next guy. 662 00:33:48.910 --> 00:33:52.230 And then that's it. It's over. It's over for him for, 663 00:33:52.970 --> 00:33:58.160 you know, our team. And it's, and it's like, this 664 00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:00.420 guy's been playing ball since he was a kid. And 665 00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:04.640 if you aren't worth it, the talent doesn't offset. Like 666 00:34:04.700 --> 00:34:06.240 if you, if you're too much of a headache and 667 00:34:06.279 --> 00:34:10.239 you don't have the talent to offset that sacks, how 668 00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:10.820 fast is that? 669 00:34:11.949 --> 00:34:14.489 Oh man. You're not. Yeah. It's gone. 670 00:34:15.619 --> 00:34:17.909 And one other thing I want people to understand, too, 671 00:34:18.159 --> 00:34:22.989 is that there's 32 teams. All 32 teams, they got 672 00:34:23.010 --> 00:34:23.630 the same list. 673 00:34:23.809 --> 00:34:26.849 Right. So don't even think that everybody's got the same 674 00:34:26.869 --> 00:34:29.190 list or he's talking about the list that he has 675 00:34:29.769 --> 00:34:30.610 is a repeated list. 676 00:34:30.650 --> 00:34:30.849 No. 677 00:34:31.670 --> 00:34:34.909 Man, when you evaluate a player, if the guy you 678 00:34:34.929 --> 00:34:36.880 were talking about, Joe Green, if he was looking at 679 00:34:36.929 --> 00:34:39.860 a player that somebody was highly recommended to him and 680 00:34:39.880 --> 00:34:43.000 he thinks he can't play, Man, that dude. 681 00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:47.510 Ain't going to watch all that tape. But it works 682 00:34:47.530 --> 00:34:48.590 the opposite way as well. 683 00:34:49.090 --> 00:34:51.710 If somebody says he can't play, then he sees a 684 00:34:51.730 --> 00:34:53.590 kid that can play, he's like, hey, man, show me 685 00:34:53.610 --> 00:34:57.090 more tape of that dude. So it's never over. You 686 00:34:57.130 --> 00:34:59.150 just got to keep putting yourself in a position to 687 00:34:59.289 --> 00:35:05.030 be able to be evaluated. The evaluation process is just 688 00:35:05.070 --> 00:35:07.849 the beginning. You got to play good football. You got 689 00:35:07.869 --> 00:35:10.610 to show up. And then you. 690 00:35:10.510 --> 00:35:11.090 Get the day. 691 00:35:12.010 --> 00:35:12.190 Right. 692 00:35:12.610 --> 00:35:14.690 But also, don't give us a reason. 693 00:35:14.710 --> 00:35:15.909 Right, right. 694 00:35:16.070 --> 00:35:19.639 It's like, make us have to make a decision. Don't 695 00:35:19.679 --> 00:35:25.460 eliminate yourself. Because it's real easy. A guy can have talent, 696 00:35:25.480 --> 00:35:26.780 but you don't like him or you don't want to 697 00:35:26.800 --> 00:35:29.059 write him up because he's a headache. It's so easy 698 00:35:29.099 --> 00:35:32.519 to say that. You know, it's like the guy eliminated himself. 699 00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:35.019 I'm not going to bring anybody in here that I 700 00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:37.980 think is going to be, you know, disrespectful or disruptive 701 00:35:38.500 --> 00:35:42.320 to our team. Because then... I can be wrong with 702 00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:44.780 my evaluation, but if this guy comes in and he's 703 00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:48.199 a headache or he's a problem and we don't know 704 00:35:48.260 --> 00:35:52.300 about it, that 100% falls on me. Anybody can interpret 705 00:35:52.380 --> 00:35:56.699 a tape wrong. But if this guy got red flags 706 00:35:56.739 --> 00:36:00.079 all over the place, that's my job. 707 00:36:00.519 --> 00:36:04.059 I want to share a story. And I don't think 708 00:36:04.099 --> 00:36:06.840 I was with the black and gold team when this happened. 709 00:36:06.860 --> 00:36:10.070 So it was a player. I ain't going to say 710 00:36:10.110 --> 00:36:10.590 who it was. 711 00:36:11.320 --> 00:36:14.099 But this particular player was. 712 00:36:13.980 --> 00:36:14.539 From the South. 713 00:36:14.699 --> 00:36:19.619 Heavy-duty country accent. I mean, heavy-duty country accent. When you 714 00:36:19.639 --> 00:36:22.780 talk to him, you had to lean in. Because, you know, 715 00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:26.320 even though I'm from the South Carolina, I mean, you know, 716 00:36:27.340 --> 00:36:31.289 it's hard. Sometimes it's hard to understand, right? 717 00:36:31.650 --> 00:36:37.530 Pot, meat, kettle, right? But this isn't the true story. 718 00:36:39.750 --> 00:36:42.909 So, I mean, I'm sitting there and before I even 719 00:36:42.929 --> 00:36:46.929 get to the kid, I had some information previously given 720 00:36:46.949 --> 00:36:48.539 to me because he was on a list. 721 00:36:48.599 --> 00:36:48.820 Right. 722 00:36:49.420 --> 00:36:51.820 And they said, well, this kid in particular has a 723 00:36:51.860 --> 00:36:52.619 hard time learning. 724 00:36:52.900 --> 00:36:53.019 Right. 725 00:36:53.039 --> 00:36:55.219 And I was like, well, you know, you know, I said, 726 00:36:55.820 --> 00:36:59.179 and I took that information as, as a grain of salt. Right. 727 00:36:59.219 --> 00:37:01.179 I said, okay, well, I'm going to still get a 728 00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:03.500 chance to talk to this kid. So anyway, long story short, 729 00:37:03.519 -->

00:37:05.699 I hear all this and I'm sitting there one day 730 00:37:05.719 --> 00:37:09.190 with the kid and, um, I said to him, I said, 731 00:37:09.230 --> 00:37:10.710 so what do you like to do? He said, well, 732 00:37:10.730 --> 00:37:12.650 I like to hunt. And I was like, okay. And 733 00:37:13.070 --> 00:37:16.150 it is a strong draw. So I said, what do 734 00:37:16.170 --> 00:37:18.530 you like to hunt? I was like, he's like turkey. 735 00:37:18.750 --> 00:37:22.769 I was like, okay. That's interesting. I'm not a hunter, but, 736 00:37:22.829 --> 00:37:25.550 you know, I hear turkey are really hard to hunt, right? 737 00:37:26.110 --> 00:37:29.219 He was like, mm-hmm, right? And I was like, I said, well, 738 00:37:29.260 --> 00:37:32.739 just take me through that process. Man, this dude told 739 00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:36.719 me everything I ever wanted to know about turkey hunting. 740 00:37:37.300 --> 00:37:40.199 right told me how to set the blinds where to 741 00:37:40.219 --> 00:37:42.340 go what time of day how long to stay there 742 00:37:42.449 --> 00:37:43.750 whether or not where you need to be in the 743 00:37:43.789 --> 00:37:47.489 wind all of the above and so i'm sitting there 744 00:37:47.550 --> 00:37:50.650 i go i go back to whoever told me that 745 00:37:51.309 --> 00:37:53.230 and i was like well i don't know about you 746 00:37:53.250 --> 00:37:57.949 but i know that dude you know and i think 747 00:37:57.989 --> 00:38:00.070 that dude is gonna be fine and then 10 years 748 00:38:00.150 --> 00:38:04.099 later That dude retired from the league. So he played 749 00:38:04.139 --> 00:38:05.920 a long time and he was a good player. So 750 00:38:06.139 --> 00:38:08.880 it's not the same for everybody. And that's part of 751 00:38:08.940 --> 00:38:11.619 the process. You got to find out stories like that, 752 00:38:11.739 --> 00:38:14.710 either directly from the person you're interested in or the 753 00:38:14.750 --> 00:38:19.309 surrounding people, the people that he surrounds himself with. And 754 00:38:19.530 --> 00:38:22.050 that's how you get that kind of information. And again, 755 00:38:22.090 --> 00:38:24.889 it's not a knock. Everybody doesn't know how to ask 756 00:38:24.929 --> 00:38:29.739 those questions. Because some people, quite frankly... don't allow themselves 757 00:38:29.780 --> 00:38:32.980 to be in that kind of space because they think 758 00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:35.679 they're threatening in some way. No, man, you got to 759 00:38:35.699 --> 00:38:38.280 be all in, like Dave said. You got to be 760 00:38:38.360 --> 00:38:41.989 all in. A lot of that is the same things 761 00:38:42.010 --> 00:38:45.469 that Dave's talking about. I went through that same process as. 762 00:38:45.429 --> 00:38:46.070 A young coach. 763 00:38:46.309 --> 00:38:50.010 I had to learn to listen. I had to learn 764 00:38:50.550 --> 00:38:54.320 to take useful information that not necessarily in the same 765 00:38:54.400 --> 00:38:57.489 way But the end results had to be the same. 766 00:38:57.550 --> 00:39:01.920 So you formulated and you went about your process. That's 767 00:39:01.940 --> 00:39:03.980 when you put the spin on it. And then if 768 00:39:04.019 --> 00:39:09.219 your outcome is good, then you keep improving on that craft. 769 00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:13.460 And that's why I like this dude right here because 770 00:39:13.699 --> 00:39:18.469 there was no good conversation that was ever going to... 771 00:39:18.119 --> 00:39:20.969 We always had good conversations and the end result was 772 00:39:21.010 --> 00:39:22.469 what they were. 773 00:39:23.030 --> 00:39:24.070 You always got to be changing. 774 00:39:25.239 --> 00:39:26.900 You know, like you always got to keep your ears 775 00:39:26.980 --> 00:39:27.699 open when. 776 00:39:27.780 --> 00:39:31.360 You're ready to change. Right, right. Like Coach Steve was like, 777 00:39:31.380 --> 00:39:33.559 don't lock your knees, you know. 778 00:39:33.579 --> 00:39:34.920 That's right. That's right. 779 00:39:35.340 --> 00:39:38.219 So you kind of walked us through the college, you know, 780 00:39:38.559 --> 00:39:42.159 scouting and recruiting. What's the big difference between the college 781 00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:47.579 and the pro, you know, scouting, recruiting, all those types? 782 00:39:48.460 --> 00:39:52.400 Okay. Yeah. You know, when you watch the draft and everything, 783 00:39:52.460 --> 00:39:55.820 and when you hear about scouts, that's mostly college guys. 784 00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:58.820 That's what you're talking about. That's probably what the majority 785 00:39:58.840 --> 00:40:01.619 of people, when they hear about scouts, that's who they're 786 00:40:01.659 --> 00:40:04.909 thinking about. But there's two sides. There's the college guys 787 00:40:04.949 --> 00:40:08.110 who are always on the road. They live in their areas. 788 00:40:08.809 --> 00:40:11.309 They might only be with their team a little bit 789 00:40:11.329 --> 00:40:14.090 during training camp. maybe once in the fall for a 790 00:40:14.139 --> 00:40:16.300 game and in the spring for draft meetings. But the 791 00:40:16.340 --> 00:40:18.400 rest of the time they're on the road and they are, 792 00:40:18.619 --> 00:40:20.420 they're actually with guys from other teams more than they're 793 00:40:20.440 --> 00:40:22.539 with their own team. And then there's, so then there's 794 00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:27.880 the pro scouting department. I did both. The pro department 795 00:40:28.139 --> 00:40:33.420 is very, it's an office job. So I went from 796 00:40:33.480 --> 00:40:35.559 being on the road, you know, almost 200 days a 797 00:40:35.579 --> 00:40:38.340 year to being in the office 365 days of the year. 798 00:40:38.380 --> 00:40:44.809 And here's the thing too, like, Everybody feels bad for 799 00:40:44.869 --> 00:40:48.409 coaches talking about how they sleep in a pro scouts 800 00:40:48.449 --> 00:40:51.809 are in the

office more than coaches. So, cause these 801 00:40:51.829 --> 00:40:54.210 guys get time off. We wouldn't get time off. You know, 802 00:40:54.230 --> 00:40:57.389 you might get a weekend or something, but you're never off. 803 00:40:58.039 --> 00:41:00.980 So what the pro scouts are doing is they are 804 00:41:01.239 --> 00:41:04.849 constantly like, you have to know the league and the, 805 00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:08.239 and the pro scouting department is a smaller department. So, 806 00:41:08.440 --> 00:41:10.320 you know, majority of my time in Pittsburgh, it was 807 00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:15.230 really like, The three, it was like me, Brandon, and Danny, 808 00:41:15.389 --> 00:41:18.710 Dan Colbert. And we worked directly with Kevin, who was 809 00:41:18.730 --> 00:41:21.909 the GM. And our job was to know the league, 810 00:41:21.929 --> 00:41:24.849 evaluate all the players on the other teams, know the 811 00:41:24.889 --> 00:41:28.070 other team's practice squads. But most importantly, you had to 812 00:41:28.110 --> 00:41:30.730 know your own team. So you're around your team, you're 813 00:41:30.750 --> 00:41:36.190 going to practice. Every day the waiver comes out and 814 00:41:36.269 --> 00:41:39.030 that's the transaction list from the league that comes out. 815 00:41:39.050 --> 00:41:41.909 You got to know like who got cut, who just 816 00:41:41.929 --> 00:41:44.849 got signed and you update your list for when you 817 00:41:44.889 --> 00:41:48.670 need players. So it's like, it's, it's like you're on 818 00:41:48.750 --> 00:41:52.449 call all the time and it's good. If you have 819 00:41:52.469 --> 00:41:54.070 a good group and you, you get in with the 820 00:41:54.110 --> 00:41:56.900 coaches and everything, you're around the team. It's fun. So 821 00:41:56.920 --> 00:41:59.639 when the team's rolling, like it's a lot of fun, 822 00:41:59.820 --> 00:42:03.019 you know, cause teams winning, everybody's happy. 823 00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:04.159 Hey, go to work. 824 00:42:04.179 --> 00:42:06.239 You go to work when it's dark, come home when 825 00:42:06.280 --> 00:42:10.170 it's dark, but whatever, man, like we had a blast. And, but, 826 00:42:10.550 --> 00:42:13.809 If you're struggling, man, it's some long days. We didn't 827 00:42:13.829 --> 00:42:17.250 have too many of those. But on the pro side, 828 00:42:17.449 --> 00:42:21.829 you're dealing with the roster of your own team a lot. 829 00:42:22.070 --> 00:42:24.239 And so things. 830 00:42:24.079 --> 00:42:28.400 That go along with that, you hear horror stories because 831 00:42:28.559 --> 00:42:29.119 what do they call them? 832 00:42:29.139 --> 00:42:34.280 Like the Turk or whatever. That's the bad guy? That's 833 00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:36.519 the bad guy. Yeah, that's the Grim Reaper. They call 834 00:42:36.539 --> 00:42:39.460 him the Reaper or whatever. So, yeah, I mean, I've 835 00:42:39.500 --> 00:42:42.000 had to do that. And where I was, it wasn't 836 00:42:42.179 --> 00:42:43.719 a matter of like one guy doing it. It was 837 00:42:43.739 --> 00:42:45.360 like if you were around. 838 00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:50.139 And you needed to form a guy that he was 839 00:42:50.179 --> 00:42:52.440 being released, go get him. 840 00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:56.219 And, you know, that's the worst part of the job. 841 00:42:56.909 --> 00:42:59.250 It's the NFL, man. Like everybody kind of gets cut 842 00:42:59.309 --> 00:43:03.070 at some point. But, you know, so kind of going 843 00:43:03.090 --> 00:43:09.159 through that process of cutting players, signing players, just always 844 00:43:09.199 --> 00:43:11.320 the roster churn. That's what the pro scouts are doing. 845 00:43:11.619 --> 00:43:14.960 And then they also do advanced work. So, you know, 846 00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:18.719 we're playing somebody this week. Well, I'm out advanced scouting 847 00:43:19.219 --> 00:43:22.340 the next opponent. So then when everybody comes in on 848 00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:26.329 Monday after the game, I've already wrote up our next opponent. 849 00:43:27.489 --> 00:43:29.909 Got all my reports, go meet with the coaches, meet 850 00:43:29.949 --> 00:43:33.590 with the head coach, meet with the players and present like, hey, 851 00:43:33.630 --> 00:43:35.550 this is where we're going to start out with these guys. 852 00:43:35.769 --> 00:43:41.139 Strengths and weaknesses of the players, any tendencies, analytic report, 853 00:43:41.900 --> 00:43:46.059 all that kind of stuff. Injury reports, injury updates. And 854 00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:47.760 then that's during the season. 855 00:43:47.820 --> 00:43:51.000 And then obviously like we do free agency and undrafted 856 00:43:51.019 --> 00:43:54.329 free agency, rookie mini camps, all that kind of stuff. 857 00:43:54.969 --> 00:43:55.610 It never stops. 858 00:43:55.650 --> 00:43:56.610 The other guys, man, they're. 859 00:43:56.530 --> 00:44:00.760 At colleges every day watching film. 860 00:44:01.019 --> 00:44:04.000 That's a good point. So pro scouts, like. 861 00:44:03.900 --> 00:44:08.639 Dave would do a scouting report for advanced game. Like 862 00:44:08.659 --> 00:44:11.500 you hear him talk about advancing for games. And then 863 00:44:11.539 --> 00:44:14.139 during the week, like if a team had a significant 864 00:44:14.179 --> 00:44:17.420 player and he's hurt, instead of the coaches having to 865 00:44:17.460 --> 00:44:21.679 sit there, you know, checking the wire or whatever every 866 00:44:21.739 --> 00:44:25.760 single day or reading all these different sources of information. 867 00:44:26.550 --> 00:44:28.309 If you wanted to find out about a dude, Hey man, 868 00:44:28.329 --> 00:44:29.550 what did it look like for that guy? Did he 869 00:44:29.590 --> 00:44:32.469 work today? You know, and then he'd had that kind 870 00:44:32.489 --> 00:44:35.710 of information for you. So there was significant part of 871 00:44:35.750 --> 00:44:41.059 the coaching staff. And, um, so it's,

it's, it's, it's 872 00:44:41.159 --> 00:44:44.039 shrouded in mystery, but it's not, I mean, people that 873 00:44:44.139 --> 00:44:49.889 work in that industry, um, and in the scouting part, it's, 874 00:44:50.889 --> 00:44:53.030 It's a family, man. Because like Dave was saying, man, 875 00:44:53.070 --> 00:44:55.829 you know, the Pro Scouts, them dudes didn't go home. 876 00:44:56.570 --> 00:45:00.269 I mean, and it's, you're spending a significant amount of 877 00:45:00.309 --> 00:45:03.010 time trying to do the right thing to have them 878 00:45:03.050 --> 00:45:05.139 days when it's happy in the building because that means 879 00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:08.780 you're winning. So everybody gets a piece of the pie 880 00:45:08.840 --> 00:45:12.460 when you're winning. And you, you know, unfortunately or fortunately, 881 00:45:12.699 --> 00:45:15.889 probably more unfortunately, I never got a chance to get 882 00:45:15.969 --> 00:45:18.510 one of them rings, but the rings happened because of 883 00:45:19.329 --> 00:45:22.429 scouts like dave and i mean not just scouts like 884 00:45:22.510 --> 00:45:24.989 i mean dave is unique so i ain't tossing him 885 00:45:25.050 --> 00:45:27.349 in the tub with all everybody else because i know 886 00:45:27.369 --> 00:45:29.590 the dude and i know he's always going to do 887 00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:33.599 his part and that's and if there's a larger message 888 00:45:33.820 --> 00:45:37.099 the large the larger message is hey man do your 889 00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:41.039 job let everything let everything happen based off of how 890 00:45:41.059 --> 00:45:43.539 you do your job you know where you get scattered 891 00:45:43.559 --> 00:45:47.659 to the way you're scouting. And it's all one big circle, man. 892 00:45:47.739 --> 00:45:53.030 It's all connected. And that's the pleasure that I enjoyed 893 00:45:53.269 --> 00:45:58.469 being around, meeting human beings that thought the same way 894 00:45:58.510 --> 00:46:01.690 that I did. And we all had a connection of 895 00:46:01.750 --> 00:46:08.199 how to get something done that was necessary. So, yeah, Dave, 896 00:46:08.239 --> 00:46:10.380 you can talk more about that cut, dude, because I 897 00:46:10.400 --> 00:46:10.780 got cut. 898 00:46:13.239 --> 00:46:16.360 That's got to be a hard job, man. I'm serious. 899 00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:19.119 I will tell you, the first one I did is like, 900 00:46:19.260 --> 00:46:20.719 you never forget your first, right? 901 00:46:21.820 --> 00:46:23.260 Yeah, my first cut. 902 00:46:24.139 --> 00:46:29.929 We were up at camp, and Doug Whaley, it was late. 903 00:46:29.989 --> 00:46:31.610 It was like 9, 10 o'clock at night. He was like, 904 00:46:31.809 --> 00:46:34.110 we were out to eat or something. And he goes, oh, yeah, 905 00:46:34.130 --> 00:46:35.329 by the way, you got to get this guy in 906 00:46:35.349 --> 00:46:36.349 the morning. I'm like. 907 00:46:37.820 --> 00:46:40.500 I didn't sleep that night. I was nervous. You know, the, 908 00:46:40.920 --> 00:46:42.659 the dude who I went to go see, he didn't 909 00:46:42.679 --> 00:46:44.360 know it was coming, but I knew it was coming, 910 00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:47.519 you know? So I'm nervous. I go up and talk like, 911 00:46:48.639 --> 00:46:51.010 it's like, get them early before they start their day 912 00:46:51.510 --> 00:46:54.090 so that you can, they can get what they need, 913 00:46:54.130 --> 00:46:55.510 make their phone calls and you can get them a 914 00:46:55.650 --> 00:46:58.269 flight to wherever they need to go. And so I'll 915 00:46:58.309 --> 00:47:00.429 knock on this dude's door. He's in the, he's in 916 00:47:00.449 --> 00:47:03.079 the dorm and I, it was probably like 7am, but 917 00:47:03.119 --> 00:47:04.500 you know, the dorm, like you don't want to knock 918 00:47:04.579 --> 00:47:07.039 too loud. Cause everybody's going to hear it. So it's like, 919 00:47:07.099 --> 00:47:12.199 you knock, you know, he comes to the door, good 920 00:47:12.260 --> 00:47:18.860 kid and everything. And man, I was, you saw, you 921 00:47:18.880 --> 00:47:21.050 see Harlem, you saw Harlem Knights, right? You all seen 922 00:47:21.070 --> 00:47:24.340 Harlem Knights. I was like, I was like the champ. 923 00:47:25.070 --> 00:47:28.809 And he was like, Richard Grimes, like, I'm stuttering. I'm like, 924 00:47:29.389 --> 00:47:33.170 you know, you should, so we need your spot. And 925 00:47:33.309 --> 00:47:35.840 do you have your, Do you have your playbook? Okay. 926 00:47:35.900 --> 00:47:38.119 Cause we need your spot. Like, man, it took me 927 00:47:38.159 --> 00:47:40.860 so long. He's just looking at me like, yeah, like 928 00:47:41.159 --> 00:47:43.019 he already knows what I'm about to say, but it's, 929 00:47:44.519 --> 00:47:46.219 but then we had to, I had to drive him 930 00:47:46.420 --> 00:47:47.119 to the airport. 931 00:47:47.380 --> 00:47:50.099 It was two hours away. 932 00:47:51.199 --> 00:47:55.019 It is his silent. Right. And, uh, but anyway, this 933 00:47:55.059 --> 00:47:57.099 dude was a smart kid. I'm sure he's doing fine. 934 00:47:57.119 --> 00:47:59.420 I'm sure he's a successful adult and everything. But when 935 00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:01.380 I get back to, when I get back to the camp, 936 00:48:01.579 --> 00:48:03.619 one of the players at his position group's like, hey, 937 00:48:03.659 --> 00:48:05.559 did you, he's like, did you talk to him this morning? 938 00:48:05.619 --> 00:48:07.019 I was like, yeah. 939 00:48:07.500 --> 00:48:10.940 He goes, next time, just get to the point, man. 940 00:48:11.099 --> 00:48:13.840 He's like, you were soldering. He's like, he's like, you 941 00:48:13.900 --> 00:48:16.019 were more nervous than he was. I was like, yeah, 942 00:48:16.059 --> 00:48:16.599 I was. 943 00:48:16.699 --> 00:48:18.969 So, but you know, you gotta be, you, you, you, 944 00:48:19.030 --> 00:48:21.530 you're trying to be respectful and all that kind of stuff.

945 00:48:21.619 --> 00:48:24.429 But yeah, man, it's, it's, it's, it's the worst part 946 00:48:24.469 --> 00:48:29.610 of the job. Usually disappointment, anger. How do they react? 947 00:48:29.630 --> 00:48:34.320 What's the reaction? A lot of times it's like shock. 948 00:48:35.110 --> 00:48:37.719 But a lot of times they know it's coming. Because 949 00:48:37.760 --> 00:48:39.199 everybody knows it's a business. 950 00:48:39.480 --> 00:48:40.500 It is a business. 951 00:48:40.579 --> 00:48:43.079 Everybody knows what cut day is. If they're not getting 952 00:48:43.119 --> 00:48:47.000 a lot of reps, the writing's on the wall. But 953 00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:52.780 the vets and everything, the top guys handle that. Coach 954 00:48:52.940 --> 00:48:55.940 would handle that kind of stuff. I'm not I'm not 955 00:48:55.980 --> 00:49:00.300 calling up a tenured vet to tell him, you know, 956 00:49:00.619 --> 00:49:03.389 it's over. Like, he, coach will handle that kind of stuff. 957 00:49:03.449 --> 00:49:06.349 But we edited all the young guys. And to be honest, 958 00:49:06.369 --> 00:49:08.389 some of them might have been a little happy it 959 00:49:08.429 --> 00:49:08.829 was over. 960 00:49:08.849 --> 00:49:13.070 Yeah, no, it's definitely, it's a stressful thing. I mean, 961 00:49:13.170 --> 00:49:16.489 it's like, it's not, training camp is never meant to 962 00:49:16.530 --> 00:49:19.969 be comfortable. I, you know, I don't know about today, hopefully. 963 00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:23.750 it's some of the expressions of how they treat it, 964 00:49:23.980 --> 00:49:26.739 or I don't know what it is, but it was 965 00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:29.099 never one of those deals where, hey man, I'm going 966 00:49:29.119 --> 00:49:32.019 to fun time. I'm going away for four or five 967 00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:34.090 weeks and then I'll be back. No, it don't work 968 00:49:34.119 --> 00:49:36.329 that way. But the one thing, you know, over the years, 969 00:49:36.469 --> 00:49:38.090 like Dave talks about it. I mean, when I was 970 00:49:38.110 --> 00:49:41.869 a young coach, I'm sure, that they're, um, no, I'm not, 971 00:49:42.250 --> 00:49:45.909 I'm sure I'm definitely positive. You, you did think about, 972 00:49:45.929 --> 00:49:48.929 I mean, cause they're people, I mean, but I got 973 00:49:48.969 --> 00:49:50.909 to a point where, you know, cause it would bother 974 00:49:51.610 --> 00:49:53.840 the other players in the room. Some of them, I mean, 975 00:49:53.880 --> 00:49:56.780 you know, do you develop close relationships with these cats? 976 00:49:56.820 --> 00:49:58.940 And then all of a sudden you with some dude, 977 00:49:59.199 --> 00:50:02.599 the entire off season program, y'all hanging out at Buffalo 978 00:50:02.639 --> 00:50:04.940 wild wings every Friday or whatever. And then all of 979 00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:08.119 a sudden bank, you know, in a six hour period, 980 00:50:08.139 --> 00:50:11.969 they're gone. And so, For me, the thing that I 981 00:50:11.989 --> 00:50:14.320 try to do with guys in my room, because they 982 00:50:14.360 --> 00:50:17.739 all pay attention. Players are very, very intelligent. They know 983 00:50:17.780 --> 00:50:22.599 what's going on. And they get a beat on everything 984 00:50:22.619 --> 00:50:25.260 that's happening. And I would tell guys, I was like, look, man, 985 00:50:25.280 --> 00:50:29.000 I want you guys to understand something very clearly. This 986 00:50:29.059 --> 00:50:32.980 is a very difficult profession. This is a very difficult profession. 987 00:50:33.380 --> 00:50:35.219 The guys that play in this league, that stay in 988 00:50:35.239 --> 00:50:37.539 this league for a long time are very fortunate, but 989 00:50:37.579 --> 00:50:42.460 they do things the proper way. that's going to keep 990 00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:46.699 them employed. I said, but you got to understand it's 991 00:50:46.739 --> 00:50:50.239 not for everybody. So the number one thing you got 992 00:50:50.260 --> 00:50:53.480 to understand when a player gets released, man, that dude 993 00:50:53.539 --> 00:50:56.960 just starting the next chapter of his life. He's not dying. 994 00:50:57.559 --> 00:51:00.340 He's just leaving this. He's leaving our presence. And as 995 00:51:00.420 --> 00:51:03.599 savage as that may sound, that's the truth. And so 996 00:51:03.639 --> 00:51:06.210 you got to figure out a way As a player, 997 00:51:06.289 --> 00:51:08.929 and again, it's the most devastating because, I mean, you 998 00:51:08.969 --> 00:51:10.789 know what? Shoot, you went to Lehigh, you went to, 999 00:51:10.809 --> 00:51:13.909 you know, you guys all went to college. I mean, 1000 00:51:13.949 --> 00:51:15.920 when you're doing something that you know you're good at 1001 00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:17.860 and then somebody tells you you can't do it, shoot, 1002 00:51:18.039 --> 00:51:20.900 I was an eight-year NFL veteran before I got cut 1003 00:51:20.940 --> 00:51:24.300 for the first time. And I lived every day in 1004 00:51:24.320 --> 00:51:26.869 the league thinking that I wasn't good enough to play. 1005 00:51:27.590 --> 00:51:32.110 So imagine that stress for eight years. So, but the 1006 00:51:32.150 --> 00:51:36.480 thing is, hey, man, There's next steps that are after 1007 00:51:36.500 --> 00:51:40.929 this thing. But I think it's interesting hearing it from 1008 00:51:40.969 --> 00:51:45.309 your end, you know, how that process looks. And I'm 1009 00:51:45.369 --> 00:51:50.110 pretty sure, I know I never heard too many scouts say, hey, man, 1010 00:51:50.130 --> 00:51:52.769 you know, that one kind of bothered me. You know, 1011 00:51:52.969 --> 00:51:55.090 or the first one. You know, you never hear those stories. 1012 00:51:55.550 --> 00:52:00.090 And because it's just part of the job. And everybody got, 1013 00:52:01.309 --> 00:52:02.530 I'm borrowing this one now. 1014 00:52:03.150 --> 00:52:06.170 I'm borrowing. I hate borrowing. So everybody got

something a 1015 00:52:06.170 --> 00:52:07.429 little dirty about their job. 1016 00:52:09.710 --> 00:52:10.230 Absolutely. 1017 00:52:10.769 --> 00:52:13.590 And I won't say who I heard said, but I'm 1018 00:52:13.610 --> 00:52:15.789 borrowing that one. That one is not original to me. 1019 00:52:15.969 --> 00:52:20.170 But I think... Real quick, we have one. I'd like 1020 00:52:20.210 --> 00:52:22.130 to share this one because this was actually a good one. 1021 00:52:22.530 --> 00:52:24.550 Were you there when we had John Malecki? 1022 00:52:24.570 --> 00:52:27.030 What position? 1023 00:52:27.250 --> 00:52:28.550 Offensive lineman from Pitt. 1024 00:52:29.090 --> 00:52:31.739 I don't remember the name. A1. 1025 00:52:31.780 --> 00:52:34.900 We had this... It was cut day. I'll finish with 1026 00:52:34.920 --> 00:52:38.159 this one. So it was cut day. And we did, we, 1027 00:52:38.639 --> 00:52:41.059 we were like, we did it later in the afternoon 1028 00:52:41.119 --> 00:52:43.639 or something. And the players all spread. Cause you know, 1029 00:52:43.659 --> 00:52:46.420 they play on Thursday and we, we, we didn't cut 1030 00:52:46.460 --> 00:52:48.659 till Saturday, but it's like, Hey guys, stay close. 1031 00:52:49.989 --> 00:52:50.199 Yeah. 1032 00:52:50.219 --> 00:52:52.809 It's just kind of just leave them hanging for a 1033 00:52:52.829 --> 00:52:54.869 couple of days, but we couldn't find it. We couldn't 1034 00:52:54.909 --> 00:52:58.309 find the guys. So we're calling around and we get 1035 00:52:58.329 --> 00:53:01.409 in touch with Maleki. He's getting cut. And he's like, 1036 00:53:01.550 --> 00:53:04.349 Oh yeah. We're all at a cookout. And he's like 1037 00:53:04.769 --> 00:53:07.610 telling us who all's there. He's like, who else is 1038 00:53:07.659 --> 00:53:08.300 on the list? 1039 00:53:10.059 --> 00:53:13.260 So we're telling him. So he's like, all right, okay, okay. 1040 00:53:13.699 --> 00:53:17.219 So they all show up. It's Saturday. They all show 1041 00:53:17.239 --> 00:53:21.320 up to the facility. We take them upstairs because they 1042 00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:23.840 got to talk to the head coach and the GM 1043 00:53:23.900 --> 00:53:26.780 because some guys are getting cut and they're flying home. 1044 00:53:26.920 --> 00:53:29.110 Some guys are getting cut. They're going back to the hotel. 1045 00:53:29.710 --> 00:53:31.809 If they clear waivers, then we sign them to practice squad. 1046 00:53:32.369 --> 00:53:35.789 So we come up to the team room, and we 1047 00:53:35.809 --> 00:53:40.340 probably got like 10 guys. And we're getting up there, 1048 00:53:40.380 --> 00:53:43.280 and before we can say anything, Malecki takes control of 1049 00:53:43.300 --> 00:53:46.440 the situation. He's like, okay, guys, listen. He's like, I've 1050 00:53:46.460 --> 00:53:48.760 been cut. He's like, I've been cut like five or 1051 00:53:48.800 --> 00:53:51.920 six times already. Just have a seat. They're going to 1052 00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:53.989 call you in one by one. The GM's going to 1053 00:53:54.030 --> 00:53:55.949 talk to you. The coach is going to talk to you. 1054 00:53:55.969 --> 00:53:57.849 Some of you guys are going home. Some of you 1055 00:53:57.869 --> 00:53:59.349 guys are staying, and they're going to keep you on 1056 00:53:59.369 --> 00:54:04.460 the practice squad. We're sitting there like, He knows the routine. 1057 00:54:04.500 --> 00:54:07.300 He knew the routine. So that was one of those 1058 00:54:07.380 --> 00:54:11.070 ones that was, like, memorable because the player, he understood 1059 00:54:11.110 --> 00:54:13.409 the business because there are some, yeah, some of the rookies, 1060 00:54:13.909 --> 00:54:16.210 they come in and they're just wide-eyed, you know. 1061 00:54:16.230 --> 00:54:18.230 Wide-eyed, yeah, yeah, yeah. 1062 00:54:18.269 --> 00:54:20.449 So it helps when there's older guys who can kind 1063 00:54:20.489 --> 00:54:22.949 of talk them through the process because really, like, when 1064 00:54:23.010 --> 00:54:24.699 we would talk to them, they're not really trying to 1065 00:54:24.739 --> 00:54:25.030 hear it. 1066 00:54:25.659 --> 00:54:27.099 Right, yeah. No, you don't hear much. 1067 00:54:27.119 --> 00:54:28.219 A bunch of different things. 1068 00:54:28.239 --> 00:54:29.739 You don't hear much, yeah. You don't hear much. 1069 00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:35.349 Dave, man, I'll tell you what. I know we're getting short, 1070 00:54:35.389 --> 00:54:37.789 and Juan's about to start, but I just wanted to say. 1071 00:54:37.889 --> 00:54:41.849 I'll let you go ahead. I appreciate you, bro. We'll 1072 00:54:41.889 --> 00:54:43.050 talk more. I'll let Juan go. 1073 00:54:43.889 --> 00:54:45.510 For sure. I appreciate it, too, man. I had a 1074 00:54:45.530 --> 00:54:45.949 good time. 1075 00:54:45.969 --> 00:54:50.099 Hey, I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation, man. I love hearing 1076 00:54:50.119 --> 00:54:53.750 those old stories and everything, so I really appreciate it. 1077 00:54:54.159 --> 00:54:56.659 I really appreciate it. Thanks so much for coming on, 1078 00:54:56.860 --> 00:54:59.579 and we'll see you next time on Up Close Too 1079 00:54:59.619 --> 00:55:01.019 Far Away. Up Close Too Far Away