Full Transcript for Pearl - Agency & Connection

as a young person. So it could be, uh, being involved in planning or any preparedness activities for a disaster. Alex: Uh, as we'll hear from Pearl, it could be really being involved in the community as part of the response and the recovery, so being hands-on volunteering, uh, or the longer-term recovery, taking maybe a leadership role or a youth advisory role. And then also really importantly, I think being involved in decision-making as well is really a key way that people can have a sense of agency. Sarah: Absolutely. Um, why is connection, whether to people, place, or community, so central to recovery after disaster? Alex: One of really the main things that we've seen in all of the research that we've done around disaster and what help, what helps people recover is feeling connected. Feeling connected to people, feeling connected to community. Alex: And I guess there are lots of different reasons that's helpful, we think. And firstly, you know, if you know, uh, the right people with the right information, that can be really helpful in terms of how you respond and prepare for a disaster, 'cause you've got that knowledge. But also, um, feeling connected to people who have shared your experience, who have tried different things, things that have worked or haven't worked, you can learn from other people as well. Alex: But yeah, it really is one of the, the strongest things that we see from all of the research, that feeling connected to others, to community, uh, is really helpful for recovery. Pearl: Um, so I'm Pearl. I'm 25 years old. I grew up on, um, a Walbunja Country of the Yuin nation, a small town called Moruya. I work as a, um, fisheries researcher, but I'm doing a PhD in kelp restoration. So I studied marine science. Um, and yeah, I live in Melbourne now, so that's basically it. Alex: Uh, so I'd be really interested to understand what is it that drew you to be involved in this project? Alex: When you first heard about it, what is it that made you kind of think, "Aha, I might reach out about this"? Pearl: Yeah. Well, I was referred to this project by a friend, and, um- Who I'd met previously at the COP, which is the Climate Change Conference. And I think I was drew to it because I've not really actually thought about my own perspectives during, um, the 2020 bushfires and, like, what it was like growing up there and, like, my mental health. Pearl: Like, I never ... That was just not really something that I ever really thought about. And yeah, I think at the COP too, it gave me a lot of perspectives around, like, disaster management and climate change, and some new ideas around that. And I think, yeah, I wanted ... I'm always kind of looking to broaden my experiences, 'cause I just think it all interconnects. Pearl: Every skill and every new experience you have is something that you can take onto your own work. Alex: You mentioned COP. What is COP? Pearl: Yeah. So the COP stands for the Conference of the Parties. It's like

the UN's big international climate change conference that happens every year, and I went to the one last year in, um, in Brazil, in Belém, which was really cool, on the edge of the Amazon. Alex: Amazing. Would you be able to share a bit about your experience of the disaster. Pearl: Mm-hmm Alex: and yeah, what, what you experienced around 2020? Pearl: Yeah, sure. So, um, yeah, in 2020 I was 19. It was ... I was living at home. I was about to move to Hobart to do my undergrad at, um, in marine science, and I was working at the pub at the time, and it was, it kind of just, I just remember it all happening very suddenly. And yeah, I was living at home, and my parents', um, house is quite rural. Like, it's about 10 minutes from, like, the main of, from, like, the town of Moruya. Mm. But it's right on, like, the river, and we're surrounded by bush, and we only have a couple of neighbours. Pearl: So ... And I remember there was, like, the ridge line of, it's called, like, the Wamban Mountain, and it was always just, like, glowing red. And basically, like, every ... That was, like, my point of knowledge, I think, of what was happening, is that every week it would get redder, and it would come closer. And then, yeah, my, um, like, my dad's an acupuncturist, um, and he was staying at home with me. Pearl: And then my mom works for DOCS and for the, like, community service in, in the public service, and she was put on, um, the evacuation centers as, like, the manager for that, for the region. So yeah, it was kind of basically that, like, whole month, it just, of it being really intense, was just- a lot of evacuation notices, leaving and then coming back, like deciding to stay or not deciding to stay, and then mom telling me what to do essentially. Alex: Yeah Pearl: And then juggling that time with like, um, doing, yeah, like working at the pub as well, helping out with some of their disaster relief stuff. Alex: Oh my gosh. Alex: What... And it sounds like this felt like it went for weeks- Pearl: Mm ... Alex: this period of kind of, uh, uh, what would you say? Like a heightened readiness- Pearl: Yes ... Alex: for the disaster. Pearl: Yeah. Yeah. 100%. And I think like, I mean, I- we're one of the lucky ones 'cause we didn't lose our, you know, property or home, but there was plenty of, like, my neighbours that, yeah, that lost their homes and animals and livestock as well, 'cause it's a big... Pearl: I mean, the South Coast is, half of it is like a farming and fishing, like, industry, and then the other half is all built up on, um, like tourism, 'cause there's a lot of holiday houses, um, and it's, yeah, 'cause it's a surf town as well. Alex: And I think, I mean, you described yourself as one of the lucky ones, but I think it's important that, as you say, you, you didn't know that at the time, though- Pearl: Mm Alex: did you, that your, um, your house would be okay. So I think it's important to recognize that, you know, for people, even if they don't lose their home, the idea of living with that threat for, for weeks and going through the experiences of, you know, friends, family, their community being impacted. Pearl: Yeah. And I think there's so much, like, grief around, one, losing, like, seeing the land that you, you grew up on just being, like, decimated. Alex: Mm. Pearl: In a way, that was just, like, so unsettling. And then, like, talking to, like, best friends, and then kinda talking through them around their, like, you know, like, grief and devastation of, like, losing their homes. Um, that was honestly the hardest thing is, like, talking to people, like, and f-friends about losing their home, because it was just, like, felt like you had to, like, carry that weight with you a bit. Alex: Yeah, 'cause, yeah, you, you are part of that impacted community- Pearl: Mm Alex: aren't you? And, um, being able to support each other's really important and share those stories. But, um, that definitely gets challenging at times- ... doesn't it? Pearl: Yeah, No, fully. Alex: So you've mentioned a couple of themes that are of interest to you, uh, one around agency and participation and one around connection. And obviously, there's no solid line between each of these themes, so we can talk across them. But why did, um, the theme of agency and participation and connection interest you in particular? Pearl: I think, like, agency and participation in particular interest me because in my experience, it felt like the first line of defence or the first line of action was from the community. Pearl: There was, like- Yeah, obviously there was, you know, the big institutions and people in government telling you when to evacuate and, and where the fire's coming, and that was very helpful. But day to day, like, the on the ground action was from neighbours and family members and people telling you what to do. Pearl: In a lot of the times during the bushfires too, the, um, the communication was down because, like, the Telstra towers all got burnt down. So you had to rely a lot on people around you, which I think connects to, like, the connection theme as well. Alex: Yeah. Pearl: So, like, I think for me, the idea of agency is, like, driven by, from people and community. Alex: Yeah, definitely. I can see, yeah, the... I think those themes, you've linked them really well, haven't you? Pearl: Mm. Alex: Yeah, connection with the community, and then the agency of community and you as an individual. Pearl: Yeah. Alex: So thinking, and you gave some examples earlier, but, um, thinking back to that- what you did to promote that sense of agency after, you know, well, could be during that period of being under threat or, or afterwards, when you felt like the danger had passed. But what did you do, or what have you done since then to restore that sense of agency and connection? Pearl: Yeah. Well, I think you could probably split it up into two points, like you said,

like, during the bushfires and after. I mean, during, for me, it was all about, like, small, yeah, small examples of action. Pearl: So I worked at the pub as a bartender, but it got turned into a drop-off point for donations. So a lot of my time was spent, like, sorting through those, um, giving those out to people. And like, it was so makeshift. Like, we would... I knew f-friends and stuff that had lost homes, or, like, they knew a friend, and then I'd be like, "Okay, well, we have these things," and then having to send those off. Pearl: And that, yeah, that felt so good, 'cause it was like, you, you do feel a bit, like, helpless. And there's so much time, I think, in disaster, which I think is interesting. There's so much time waiting and sitting around. So it feels nice to... It felt really nice to be able to do something. And then, yeah, too, my mom was the, like, running all of the evacuation centers. Pearl: So she put me on a few volunteer shifts, a few of them in Moruya. Yeah, like, during the bushfires, it was, it felt really important to me to feel like I had a sense of control over the situation, and for me, that, that manifested in doing small things. And the way that it's framed, to me, it didn't feel like a heroic action or, like, me being like, "I'm gonna do these things for the community." It was everyone together, like, we're doing the same things. It didn't... Everyone was like, "Okay." I think that's the thing about country people, is that if there's a will, there's a way, and if there's a plan, and there's a, something bad that happens, everyone kind of comes together and is really, like, actionable. Pearl: And then I feel like after, for the agency bit, after the actual disaster, it felt really important to me to talk to people about rural communities in a way that felt not patronising or condescending. I think I feel so much, like, pride being from a rural regional area. Alex: Yeah. Pearl: So much of, like, the narrative was around rural people being quite, like, helpless or not knowing things. Pearl: I feel like I had a lot of conversations with people about- Like, poor, it's a bit, it, quite, like, condescending vibes of, like, "We have to help these people," and I'm like, "No, everyone has actually... There's plenty of tools already existing in the country, and plenty of organisations that have actually strong, that are from the community and know what's best for the community.” Pearl: So for me, it's not about, like, funding, like, an NGO that actually has no ties to the community and then that will trickle down. It's about funding what existing, like, what already exists there. Alex: Do you feel like as a young person you were able to show your sense of agency or connection that might be different to, um, how people in other positions in the community might show it? Pearl: I think the thing about young people especially coming from a rural area is that we, I mean, from my experience, I think we deeply understand, like, the reasoning to why these climate, I mean, these disasters are occurring and it's because of climate change. And I think a lot of the conversations that I had with, like, my friends and peers were, like, already, like, during the disaster we were all, like, bunkered down and talking about climate change already. Pearl: And I think, obviously our parents had felt this responsibility of, like, dealing with, you know, their properties and their livelihoods and, like, their businesses and things. But I think it was kind of a two-way street. We were, like, navigating their emotions and their feelings around it and trying to ensure that they felt supported and calm, and then also already talking about why these things are happening, and also the systems in play too, like. Alex: Mm. Pearl: Cause I think we're always absorbing information from other people as well. Alex: Y- yeah. Pearl: Yeah. I feel like we're like the little fly on the wall that's like- Alex: Yes ... Pearl: People don't think that we're listening, but think we're taking on a lot more than what everyone was expecting. Alex: I know you're very passionate about climate change. Pearl: Mm. Alex: Um, but I guess with that knowledge and passion is the, um, the understanding of the reality of future disasters. Pearl: Yeah. Alex: Uh, is there anything that you would do now to prepare for another disaster, anything that you would do differently or focus on a bit differently? Pearl: I think unders- I think, like, understanding the scale, I think, of the fires was something that I probably wish I knew before, and how fast things change, and you have to be very flexible. Alex: Yeah. And is there anything else that you want to encourage other young people to, to think about around how they might, you know, even amongst the chaos of a disaster or the recovery, might try and feel a sense of agency or, or control? Pearl: I think I would just tell them that they have so much, like, power in their decisions. I think they have way more power than they think, and their perspectives are so valid. And I think- acknowledging the strength of, like, your resilience is, like, has been, like, really, really, um, crucial for me to, like, navigate my feelings around disaster. Pearl: Because I think it is... It's a positive thing that our generation has dealt with so much uncertainty, because it means that we're so much, so flexible and, like, and resilient and p- and really good at problem-solving, I think. Alex: I think that, that's really nice. Do you have any questions for me about these themes or anything else? Alex: I, obviously, one of my roles is supporting communities like yours- Pearl: Mm ... Alex: uh, after the Black Summer- Pearl: Yeah ... Alex: either immediately after or in the long term. So is, yeah, anything- Pearl: Yeah. 'Cause obviously I know that people from regional, rural areas, I think one of the main things I remember, like, think about

is that often they're the last people to wanna talk about their feelings around anything traumatic, especially, like, farmers and stuff. Pearl: I grew up from, I have, like... I'm, I'm from, like, a farming family, and they're all, like, very stoic. Um, so, like, what is the best way to, like, talk about stuff like this that doesn't... 'Cause often I feel like I would ask about, I'd be like, "It's really hectic, isn't it?" at the pub or something to, like, old mate, Farmer Joe down the road. And he'd just be like, "Ah, it's all right. Just get on with it." And I'm like, "I don't feel like you actually do feel that way. You just feel uncomfortable with, like, feelings." So how would you... Yeah, that's my question. Alex: Yeah. I like, and obviously very nice of you to be thinking about kind of other people. I think people really cope in different ways, you would've observed. Alex: Some people wanna talk about it all the time. Mm-hmm. For other people, they don't, and I think that's okay. Yeah. I think- Pearl: Yeah ... Alex: what you said you did, uh, with the farmer in the pub example, I think is really great. You let them know that- Kind of you're open to talking if they wanna talk. Pearl: Mm. Alex: But you're not pressuring them to talk as well. Alex: I think that's really important. And I think the other thing, um, that's you've made me think of as you've been speaking is around that idea of connection. Often when we think of connection, we think about, oh, well, it's about having someone to cry on the shoulder of. Pearl: Mm. Alex: Like, that's the only way I'll get through this. But actually, that's just one form of connection. It could just be, you know, hanging out at the pub and sorting through donations can give you that sense of connection- Pearl: Yeah ... Alex: and support or, um, yeah, chatting with friends or advocating with your mates about climate change. That's another form of connection. Alex: So I think, yeah, people can talk if they want to talk, but encouraging other forms of connection- Pearl: Yeah, true ... Alex: I think is really important. Um, yeah, and people can change their mind about talking, but yeah, that's what I would think. And yeah, I think your role in the pub is such a key one within a community- Pearl: Yeah Alex: in terms of a place where people come and connect. Pearl: No, 100%. Sarah: So Alex, I noted that Pearl didn't consciously think about the impact of her lived experience until later in life. Is that a common experience? Alex: That's a, a really good observation that you made, Sarah, and it is something that can happen. I mean, people really respond very differently to disasters in the short term, but even years afterwards as well. Alex: And for some people, it may not hit them until years afterwards. Uh, but for other people, um, it will be something that they're having to process from the very beginning. Sarah: As a practitioner, Alex, is there tangible evidence to back the assertion that being meaningfully involved in community benefits young people experiencing loss after disaster? Alex: It's definitely what the research and a, a lot of experts who work in disaster think is one of the really key ingredients. Um, and it's thought to, to help by, um, it allows people to, um, sometimes surprise themselves in what they're able and capable of doing, even in really horrific circumstances. Uh, it, so it can help people feel like they have control, they have choice, they have, um, some agency over what is happening in the community or what's happening in part of the recovery. Alex: So yeah, that is one of the things that we do think if we can find opportunities ourselves to become more involved in the recovery, if, of course, we feel able to. Not everyone will have that energy. They'll have other priorities that they need to look at. But that can be something that is helpful for someone's recovery in terms of their mental health and wellbeing. Sarah: Yeah. Um, so reflecting on your conversation with Pearl today, Alex, what would you say are the key takeaways from that discussion? Alex: Pearl covered off on some really great points. But I think some of the things that I want to emphasize from what Pearl said is, um, it can feel overwhelming, um, particularly soon after a disaster in that response phase. Alex: But, doing what you can and what you feel able at that point of time in order to connect, connect with loved ones, connect with friends. Um, if you do have any, uh, energy or capacity to get involved and help community, that can be something that's really helpful. I think one of the other really key things that came out of the chat with Pearl was a good reminder to all of us that connection can look very different for different people. Alex: So it's not just about connection being chatting to your best friend about what's happened or chatting to your family. It can be, um, you know, chatting to or serving someone a beer at the local pub and talking about anything else but what has just happened. Or it can be, um, you know, getting some practical support from your neighbour, um, with something. Alex: So I think it was just a really good reminder of how broad connection can be for different people. Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. That's such a fantastic observation. Thank you so very much, Alex, for sharing all your thoughts today. I, I really appreciate it. Alex: No problem. Liz: If anything we discussed in today's episode raised issues for you, please reach out to someone you trust and seek support. One resource we're sharing in every episode is eHeadspace. This is a free confidential service for young people across Australia with support available online, by email, or on the phone with a mental health clinician or peer worker. Go to headspace.org.au Liz: You can also find a range of resources about preparing for, responding to, and recovering from emergencies on the Australian Red Cross website. They have information for young people, families, and communities. Go to redcross.org.au for more information. You'll find all the support resources available in the show notes. Liz: The Finding Steady Ground podcast was brought to you by the Centre of Excellence, Young People and Disasters, and Phoenix Australia. This podcast was recorded on the lands of the Wurundjeri and Boon Wurrung peoples of the Kulin Nation. This episode was hosted by Alex Howard and Sarah Herzina. Liz: Pre-production and research were by Phoebe Michetti, Jessica Standish and Dr David Pedder. Editing and production were by Liz Keen from Headline Productions. Funding for the Centre of Excellence: Young People & Disasters was provided by the Australian Government.