Full Transcript for S7E5: Consistently Inconsistent (Feat: Pete from Bears Beyond the Gate)

but then you've only got 50 to play with for the rest of them, and maybe that's a way of slightly levelling the field. 00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:44.720 I'm not sure ages make much difference. 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:49.199 I mean, we're talking about Amelia McDougall, such a wonderful player at such a young age. 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:52.639 She she's gonna be there and running the game anyway. 00:04:52.879 --> 00:04:55.519 Trust you to come up with something more complicated. 00:04:56.720 --> 00:04:57.920 Well, that's me. 00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:02.560 And then talking about blowouts, uh, it's very much on Alex Osterbury's mind. 00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:26.800 I managed to be part of a gaggle talking to him after the fans forum midweek, and he was pretty sympathetic to the idea of going from nine teams down to eight in the PWR, and that is to concentrate the talent into eight teams and have strength across the board, which supporters other than the ones of the team that's excluded would probably go with. 00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:34.720 But he wanted to add to it an Anglo-French competition, which he thinks is another way of bringing in real quality games. 00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:41.279 And Harriet, you're still getting up to speed with the women's game a little bit, but does that sound a good idea to you? 00:05:41.439 --> 00:05:48.879 I guess the downside is that it would certainly put paid to the idea of bringing in Welsh, Irish, and Scots teams. 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:57.600 Yeah, I think I've got mixed feelings on that, because as you say, the there is quite a significant downside. 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:03.759 It is always pleasurable to watch a range of people from a range of places end up playing. 00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:10.639 We've got a lot to get through in the rest of the show, so we'll leave the women there as none of us know what we're talking about. 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:19.759 Apart from to say that the weekend after next weekend is against Exeter at Stonex, and that'll be a cracker of a game. 00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:34.480 And Jez, do you think it would be a good idea of the Exeter players to do what the Loughborough ones did, which was to call Poppy Cleal Granny, apparently, just before she then decided to batter the lot of them. 00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:37.040 Was it some Winnipeg's girls squirrel said it? 00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:38.639 There's no one quite like Granda. 00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:50.879 Yeah, I mean, whoever came up with that idea at Loughborough, it probably seemed like a good idea in the change room, but I think they own a pint afterwards because I mean you've got two ways of taking that. 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:59.360 And you know, you look at Poppy Cleal, I mean, she's a police officer now, she's never been backward in coming forward in the politest way of looking at it. 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:01.839 She is a specimen, shall we say? 00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:03.600 She's fiery as well. 00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:06.319 That's like red rags are bull, isn't it? 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:13.839 That's like going up to the big bloke in a bar in it and saying, I'll have you outside, and then realising he's when he gets up, he's like four foot taller than you. 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:17.199 Uh Stan Collymore and Danny Greek situation there, I think. 00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:20.959 If you ever heard Karen Brack and tell about that story, something similar. 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:24.000 Don't poke a bear and you won't get mauled. 00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:26.000 That is a good life lesson. 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:27.360 Do not poke the bear. 00:07:27.519 --> 00:07:31.040 And uh, I think calling Poppy Cleal Grant is as close as you can get. 00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:36.560 Anyway, we will be back after a short break when we will be discussing wine. 00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:38.639 You're listening to the Fezcast. 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:40.079 Listening to the Fest Cast. 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:43.600 Hi, Alex Osterberry here, director of rugby for Saracens Women. 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:45.759 You're listening to the Saracens Festcast. 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:48.480 This is the Festcast. 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:50.240 So, welcome back, everybody. 00:07:50.399 --> 00:08:01.439 And Brendan Ventner, or as he's now known as uh Brendan Vinter, got himself into the news in the same week as he happened to be appearing at uh a fans forum. 00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:14.319 And at that fans forum, I stuck my hand up to ask a cheeky question about whether we would get our five grand back now that he was no longer the director of rugby and he'd become the director of wine. 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:18.160 And would we get our five grand back for him not appearing at Twickenham? 00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:21.199 Now, let me give you a little bit of advice. 00:08:21.439 --> 00:08:26.959 It's a really unentertaining experience to annoy Brendan Ventner. 00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:36.960 The glare that he gives, I can imagine how he keeps a squad of players together because the glare that he gives is is frightening, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:42.799 But uh Jess, maybe that's the way you should keep us under control when you're when you're in charge of one of these podcasts. 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:45.440 It's a lot easier if you're in the same room, Duncan. 00:08:45.600 --> 00:08:48.879 I mean, you sat there and you know locking, it's 75 miles away. 00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:50.240 I can't know control of it. 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:56.000 Believe you me, if you were sat next to me, Duncan, it would be a different, a different conversation, shall we say? 00:08:56.320 --> 00:09:00.960 Half the time it is just as well I am 75 miles away, so I think I'll carry on doing that. 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:07.200 Uh, I'll try and give as concise a summary as I can of the case for the defence, shall we call it? 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:08.960 Because I think he had quite a strong case. 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:15.679

Basically, when he agreed to come back, he said, I'll come back, but on one condition. 00:09:15.919 --> 00:09:20.639 That condition is that I never have to speak to the media about rugby. 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:23.840 Speak to them about anything else, but just not about rugby. 00:09:23.919 --> 00:09:27.360 And he had it put in his contract that he wouldn't have to do that. 00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:35.919 The reason he had it put in his contract was that he had learnt from his first stint in charge that he's no good at it. 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:44.080 It's the press's job to try and ask questions that if he answers them, the Prem would fine him for, for telling his opinion. 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:54.799 And in a way, when you're dealing with the press, you need a Max Malins, whereas he's a bit of an eroney Maui, and that that metaphor is my metaphor, not his. 00:09:55.440 --> 00:10:00.879 And you can see it because when he's asked a question, you could see this at the fans forum. 00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:03.120 He sort of grumbles for a bit. 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:10.159 And often Ed Coatesy, the new CEO, will take over and he'll tell a few jokes because he's a very funny bloke. 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:18.639 And then after a minute, Brendan Venter comes back with a very, very good and intelligent answer once he's had a chance to think about things. 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:21.600 Now, of course, that doesn't work on TV. 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:37.519 And his point is also that from a rugby point of view, he's not even picking the team because it is a collective management coaching team that is running everything, and his voice is no more important than anybody else. 00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:45.519 And therefore, why shouldn't someone like Joe Shaw, who's a lot better at doing it than him, do it and not Brendan Ventner? 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:53.360 In addition, there are four teams in the Prem, including Quinn's, who don't have a director of rugby. 00:10:53.600 --> 00:11:00.960 So it must be alright for someone who isn't the director of rugby to do the media because there are teams who don't even have one. 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:10.399 So during the summer, Saracen's told the Prem that this is what was going on, that he was coming back and it was in his contract, so he wouldn't have to speak to the media. 00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:17.039 And it was the day before the Twickenham event that they rang up and said, Brendan Venter's got to go. 00:11:17.840 --> 00:11:24.159 Saracen says to them, but we told you and you didn't say anything, and their only response was to slap a fine. 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:35.840 So it's a quite a strong case, and I and one that I think if if it had been given to the press would have put a lot of pressure on the Prem to back down. 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:44.080 But of course, the response was a very Brendan Ventner response, which is to say, Well, I'm no longer the director of rugby, I'm the director of wine. 00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:49.679 In other words, he was saying, bugger you media and bugger you prem. 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:53.759 Except it was a word that was probably a lot stronger than bugger. 00:11:54.000 --> 00:12:06.399 So I think what happened then was, of course, the press were against him and against Saracens, and the Prem, in a way, were put in a position where they can't be seen to cave in because they want people appearing before the press. 00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:23.679 And it also came out in a week when the Manchester City story broke, which enabled all the usual idiots to come out with a reason to compare us to Manchester City and call us cheaters, which upset quite a few fans, although I think the whole business is quite funny. 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:26.799 As it happens, Brendan Ventner has caved in. 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:30.399 He appeared twice on TNT on Sunday. 00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:32.799 You know, I think he had to because he had no choice. 00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:36.480 Now, the question for me I'll put this to you, Jez. 00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:38.879 He's a very intelligent man, Brendan Ventner. 00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:41.039 Anyone who was at the fans forum can see that. 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:47.600 You know, he's talking about media and and what have you and marketing, and he gets a handle on strategy. 00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:55.759 So was his move to call himself a wine consultant just anger on a desire to say, bugger you? 00:12:56.240 --> 00:13:05.120 Or was it a way of creating a sort of circle the wagons boys and make the team think that everybody's uh against us as a form of motivation? 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:07.120 Sorry, I missed most of that, Don. 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:08.960 Can you go back to the start again? 00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:13.120 No, I said I'd be as I could have been ours. 00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:17.840 No, um I think there's lots and lots of different facets to this. 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:27.519 Number one, I think it suits Brendan to do this because it's harking back to the old nobody likes us and everything like that. 00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:45.200 And there's a little bit of media, as a bit of sympathy with the PWR saying it's just a bit of media, but that's a very tiny bit of sympathy, and I think what highlighted it more than else the interview that Brendan did with David Platten on the television was painful. 00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:55.919 He just doesn't enjoy doing it, and the fact that the PWR and the RFU are determined to make him do it, I think is verging on bullying him. 00:13:56.559 --> 00:13:58.080 And I don't think that's right. 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:01.840 And also, I mean, Craig, what's his face on on TNT? 00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:10.399 Turn around to Emily Scarrett, Ben K, Austin Heady, and I mean Austin Heady, you just discount what he's saying because he'll you'll always find the bad in everything. 00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:13.919 But he said to Emily Scarrett, he said, Well, we want to hear from

directors of rugby. 00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:19.120 As if Brendan Venter's the only intelligent person who can talk about rugby within the Saracens organisation. 00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:33.679 Well, we know I've spoken to Joe Shaw, I spoke to Dyke Fanigan, who speaks to players, you speak to Mario Tosi, all of the people at the organisation able to do that job an awful lot better than Brendan Venter, purely because Brendan just doesn't enjoy that side of it. 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:37.120 So why are you saying that you must speak to him? 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:45.600 I just find it incomprehensible that PWR, and I think it's purely because the PWR makes Saracen's play the different rules to the rest of them. 00:14:45.679 --> 00:15:01.039 Because if it was Bach with uh with a director of rugby who said I don't want to do it, whereas Leicester with a director of rugby who said they didn't want to do it, while Phil Darson said he didn't want to do it, and states there wouldn't be the same uh reaction from the PWR than there is when Brendan Venzer does it. 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:04.559 They don't like him from when he was there before, and they don't like him now. 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:07.120 I think it's all a bit playground, it's a bit childish. 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:09.679 Everybody needs to sit down and be a bit grown up about it. 00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:16.799 And probably Brendan shouldn't have come out and done, you know, the club shouldn't have done what they've done, but you can see why they've done it. 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:17.600 There you go. 00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:19.519 Everybody hates us, it's worked. 00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:22.240 Now, Barry, question for you. 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:30.320 What do you think of this idea of Jez criticizing someone for having a long preamble run up to a question? 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:34.639 Very good question. 00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:35.840 I'll have to think about that. 00:15:36.080 --> 00:15:37.679 Three cheers for Jez. 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:40.799 You would take his side. 00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:45.440 What's your opinion on the whole circus that happened last week then? 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:47.039 Uh it's ridiculous. 00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:55.600 So, I mean, perhaps with hindsight, we should have put out an announcement that um Mark McCall was standing aside, but obviously staying part of the organisation. 00:15:55.759 --> 00:16:13.840 Brendan was coming back as a technical consultant, and Joe Shaw would be continuing as the head coach because that is kind of the similar situation to the one they've got at Gloucester, where Skimington is that is technically the head coach, and Chris Boyd, isn't it, is their technical consultant. 00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:19.679 But I'm sure that Chris Boyd has a much bigger role to play, but yet the press go and speak to George Skivington. 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:21.440 So it shouldn't make a difference. 00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:24.960 So we we obviously need to change the PWR rules. 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:31.679 PWR change the prem rules that each club has to put up a a senior coach to talk to the press. 00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:43.279 And it doesn't matter who it is, as long as it's a senior coach and not someone who sweeps up the change of rooms afterwards, then it's perfectly acceptable, and the club should be able to decide who they put forward. 00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:47.200 And in a way, that's Brendan Ventler's point to David Flatman, wasn't it? 00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:49.679 That he he never was the DOR, you know. 00:16:49.759 --> 00:17:00.720 So anyway, but Harriet, quite a few Saris fans were felt a bit let down by it, as are representative of the very much younger point of view, certainly than me. 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:02.480 How how did you feel about it? 00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:06.640 I can get why some people might be upset by it. 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:17.680 For me personally, I can think as long as Saracen's put out someone who knows what they're talking about or wants to talk about rugby, it shouldn't have to be one specific person. 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:22.400 And it is a little bit ridiculous because what happens if they're ill on the day? 00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:27.440 Were you gonna get a fine because someone's too ill to speak and do all the press? 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:32.640 The press is a separate job, and there are people that are paid specifically to deal with the press as well. 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:36.799 So why you'd expect a rugby expert to then be able to play to the press? 00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:38.079 It's just silly. 00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:39.519 It is a bit. 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:40.960 I do agree with you. 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:46.079 Just one point on Ed Cosey, who was, of course, at the fans forum. 00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:54.240 And apart from the fact that he is a great laugh, there was a further mention at the fans forum of why can't the men be like the women? 00:17:54.319 --> 00:18:01.200 Let's put it like that, in terms of the huge amount of work that the women put in after a game to engage with the fans, etc. 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:14.960 And apparently after the sale game, the men disappeared into their shell again, into the dressing room, and Ed Kurtzy went in and hauled them out, which I think shows you you can tell he was a prop Jez. 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:27.039 Well, I just think he's an old-style rugby player, and a bit like myself, really, you know, from a bygone era when win, draw, or lose were on the boost kind of attitude was there, and that sort of side of things. 00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:34.720 I think what we have to remember in relation to the men and the women, okay, is the men are fully professional. 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:36.480 This is their day-to-day job. 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:46.480 Now, I could quite easily have walked out of my little stores today, hold my hand up in the air and giving it bitty big balls all around about how well I dealt with

various things. 00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:48.240 But you're doing your job. 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:55.279 And the men, and this is not disrespecting the women in any way whatsoever, but the men, their full-time job is rugby. 00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:58.400 I think you've got to temper that a little bit. 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:01.680 That is it part of their contract or they've got to go and say hi to the fans. 00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:11.279 The women's slightly different because they're very much closer to the fans in the fact that they go out and do a job on a Monday and everything like that. 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:17.119 So I don't know whether calling out the players for being disappointed for whatever. 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:22.000 Yes, they're in the entertainment industry, but it's a really professional job they're doing. 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:30.640 So I can understand why perhaps they don't want to be sociable, but then again, there is an element of they do need to be a bit sociable. 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:32.400 So I think there's a balance to be had. 00:19:32.559 --> 00:19:36.160 So that whole rugby, old rugby boss is a great thing. 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:44.799 We just gotta be aware of the way the game's changed in in relation to how players are the aspect of their life, as it were. 00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:56.640 I think it was a clever question in comparing the men to the women because the women are evangelical about the game, given that it was only a few years ago. 00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:04.799 They were nowhere, and they see it as their duty to work hard in whatever way they can to grow the game. 00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:09.119 Especially at Saracens, it would be great if the same did exist. 00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:17.519 I'm not saying they don't do what they can to grow the game, but they're clearly just not as evangelical as the women, are they? 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:22.880 The women, the fact that they're really trying to create that game, they've got so much more growth to be done. 00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:32.559 Whereas the men's rugby game is a lot more established than the women's, so perhaps you don't have to put that same evangelical in enthusiasm into it to grow the game. 00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:37.039 Even on a bad day, we get 6,000 people there for the men's game. 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:39.359 On a good day, you get 3,000 for the women. 00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:46.240 So, you know, that's evangelical enthusiasm is much needed for the women whilst they grow their game. 00:20:46.480 --> 00:20:51.279 Well, long may those women continue to be um evangelical because they're a delight, they really are. 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:58.640 So we'll take another break there and we'll be back to discuss, amongst other items, when is a knock-on a charge down? 00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:01.200 You're listening to the FezCast. 00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:12.160 So, our first defeat of the season, and we should probably get a few of the three-word wines with an H in the middle out of the way. 00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:15.039 Hanky, let it breathe. 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:18.720 And from Twist, too much wine, question mark. 00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:38.720 But the three-word reviews that uh chimed most with me come from as a starter Jim Bo, Attack Too Narrow, Northstand Sid, Battering Ram Repulsed, Gareth Baxter, no game plan, and Rue Cayford, very, very flat. 00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:44.480 And lastly, Ben Hoxma, inconsistent, flat, and disappointing. 00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:47.440 And he didn't have an and in there, so he can count. 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:52.160 Barry, are you feeling as negative as me and those three word reviewers? 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:57.920 Well, I mean, you you can't really gloss over the performance at the weekend. 00:21:58.079 --> 00:21:59.680 It wasn't good, it was hard to see. 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:15.920 Our game plan, and for the amount of time we were playing against 14, 13, and very nearly 12 players at one point, we didn't seem to make an awful lot of inroads until that fantastic try from the Brackens right towards the end. 00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:18.240 Yeah, it's difficult to tell. 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:25.200 I mean, it looks like the same inconsistency we've seen for two or three seasons, but it was only game two of this season. 00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:26.720 It might just be a one-off. 00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:37.599 It's going to be very interesting to see how we react this weekend against the Bears, who were going to be riding into town on the crest of a wave, and we're on the crest of a slump, if you like. 00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:44.480 They won two of their games, they're joint top of the league, and they'll be feeling pretty confident about this weekend, I think. 00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:48.960 Harriet, you are a fantastically positive person. 00:22:49.119 --> 00:23:00.240 And after a performance like that, I was thinking that maybe it should be you and our other positive person, Sam too, cheering everybody up with uh just taking over the whole show. 00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:10.960 So do you agree with the rather innumerate Nicholas Carter, whose three-word review is personally, I don't think Sarris were as bad as people are saying today. 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:14.640 They just got suffocated before they could get any real grip. 00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:22.799 There was definitely room for improvement, but in some ways that's a good thing because it means that we can watch them grind develop, which is always fun. 00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:28.400 And to be fair, there were good points like the Bracken's Try, that was a bit of stardust. 00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:30.480 Again, it shows what's possible. 00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:38.559 So yeah, lots of development and change, but I think it's not necessarily the worst case scenario. 00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:41.680 We weren't walked over, we just lost. 00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:43.200 So you are wonderful. 00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:46.960 I just

love your posity, room for improvement after that. 00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:47.599 It was great. 00:23:47.680 --> 00:24:00.720 I mean, the performance took me back to the depths of uh winter and being up at Glasgow and watching a Saracen's team who, when they had the ball, just seemed to bash it up the middle and constantly be running into the defence. 00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:13.279 Whereas you see with Northampton and Gloucester now and Bristol, you know, it seems like a lot of the ways that they make it through defences is the quick inside ball to the man hanging on their shoulder. 00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:15.519 We had a lot of opportunities to do that. 00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:32.160 There was one right in front of me when Marrow was running with the ball, and Ironi Maui was there right in his shoulder, and there was a gap in the defence if it had gone to Aroney, but Marrow just spurned the offload and he went into the tackle again. 00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:41.119 And it reminded me of the Glaswegian sitting next to me who said in the middle of that game, you know, it's very easy to defend against this. 00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:44.079 Am I and the Glaswegian being too negative? 00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:47.200 There were two big problems for Saracens in this game. 00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:56.799 Number one, the cell defence, as you'd expect from a defense put together by Alex Anderson, was on the edge of legality. 00:24:57.279 --> 00:25:10.640 Carl Dixon obviously can't count past seven when he's marking out an offside line because the amount of dog-legged offside charging out, it was ridiculous. 00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:20.799 Even when they were penalized for it by the end of the first half, they were in double figures for offside penalties in the in the scoring zone and never got a yellow card for it, and we'll talk about that in a minute. 00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:23.599 But the biggest problem was unfortunately at standoff. 00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:28.319 Fergus Burke didn't have his kicking boots on, so we had I hadn't had a word with him in the week. 00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:45.599 But also, what he didn't do was he wasn't able to adjust his game plan and do something different, and a lot of that's down to the pressure that he was put under, and he was put under a lot of pressure, and as I said, not all of it I felt legally, but also you know, you got Owen Farrell on the sideline there. 00:25:45.680 --> 00:26:02.799 That was a game for Owen Farrell against his old mate George Ford, who had a very, very good game, as good a game this week as he had a poor game the week before, where he just played the conditions, played the territory, played the possession brilliantly, and Fergus wasn't able to do that for periods of time. 00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:10.559 Fergus really did shift out of that game until a bit later on when we got a bit of space, and suddenly, yeah, we looks good again. 00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:14.240 I don't know whether Farrell is fit. 00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:17.839 He's been coming on as the water carrier, so we'll see whether he's back soon. 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:22.880 It might be just part of this uh rotation that is uh is coming along. 00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:29.200 But moving to the elephant in the room, another three-word review for Gareth Baxter. 00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:31.039 Funny charge down. 00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:34.880 So, Barry, you were right there, it was under your nose. 00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:36.480 Uh, do you agree with him? 00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:43.920 Yes, I don't see how you can charge down a kick that's already hit something, in this case, the pitch. 00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:45.839 It makes little sense to me. 00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:56.559 If you take this to its logical conclusion, anytime the ball is kicked now, you don't have to catch it, you can just bat it back towards the other side and and then go and pick it up because that's a charge down, right? 00:26:56.640 --> 00:26:58.799 That's it's as immediate as it can be. 00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:07.680 We've obviously had a discussion on on WhatsApp about the what the law says and how you interpret it, and and I'm sure that um the TMO did as well. 00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:10.720 That's not a charge down to me. 00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:11.920 That's a knock-on. 00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:16.960 Having said that, the ball technically, from my point of view, looked like it went backwards. 00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:19.119 So is it a knock-on or is it not? 00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:21.839 I mean, I've seen one given before. 00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:24.000 Jesse's nodding vigorously. 00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:32.799 Now, was it Lucio Sinti who was given a yellow card for a deliberate knock-on in an international game where the ball did go backwards, but his hand went forward. 00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:45.920 The fact it came off his hand and physically went backwards was ignored by the the referee, which I think was Luke Pierce at the time, because he said, Well, you you made the motion as if to knock it on, and therefore it's a knock-on, as far as I'm concerned. 00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:51.359 And that felt a little bit like the one on Sunday to me, but that's my view. 00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:53.519 It certainly wasn't a charge down for me. 00:27:53.839 --> 00:28:00.480 And they certainly decided to ignore the fact that it did go backwards and it and it definitely did go backwards, which is probably just as well. 00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:04.079 But I can't really believe I'm doing this, Jez. 00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:07.279 But uh were you full of admiration for the ref? 00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:10.000 Unfortunately not. 00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:14.880 No, I mean, there's a lots and lots of things that I felt there were a problem. 00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:18.400 But just quickly from what Barry said, was it a charge down? 00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:18.720 No. 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:21.440 Courtney Laws tried to catch that ball. 00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:24.960 And

regardless of whether the ball gone backwards or not, he didn't catch the ball. 00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:26.160 That to me is a knock-on. 00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:28.240 A professional player, you've got to catch the ball. 00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:32.720 He didn't try to charge it down, he tried to catch it, and he went to try and catch it with one hand. 00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:39.519 That is every definition, and I don't care what AI says, I don't care what law books say or whatever. 00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:44.079 If you have an understanding of the game, and let's be honest about it, I've been in that position. 00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:46.480 I've tried doing the same as Courtney Laws has done. 00:28:46.640 --> 00:28:48.799 Courtney knew he got away with one there. 00:28:49.039 --> 00:28:54.079 I think the problem with the referee, though, was that I think he's a good referee, Joe James. 00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:54.559 I really do. 00:28:54.640 --> 00:28:56.319 And I've seen him before, I've been really good. 00:28:56.480 --> 00:28:58.319 He just seemed to be a bit out of his death. 00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:04.400 He was getting no help from Carl Dixon, who you'd expect him to give out being a senior guy on the touchline. 00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:10.799 And he was allowing Hamish in the TMO box to referee the game at points, and it was it was just ridiculous. 00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:17.440 I mean, the the talked-off tribe for Nick Tompkins, where Nicazegui was deemed to have blocked off. 00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:20.400 Well, he was blocked off because Corney Laws pulled him into that. 00:29:20.559 --> 00:29:21.759 Well done, Courtney again. 00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:27.440 Corney was back to his sort of like his his best, got the old trick book out sort of thing. 00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:31.839 And the picture was painted to the referee, and I don't think anything had changed. 00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:36.000 It was just things like the amount of offsides, I've already mentioned it. 00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:44.000 You don't have 11 offsides, 12 offsides in one half, and not even get a warning for a yellow card. 00:29:44.160 --> 00:30:00.400 And whether that's because he'd already been given yellow cards and red cards out, I don't know, but they should have had a warning at the very least, if not another yellow card, but the persistent offsides that they did get pinged for, not talking about the ones that they didn't get pinged for. 00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:06.079 And then the red card, and I know, Duncan, you're going to disagree with me, but if it's a red card, it's a red card. 00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:07.759 And that was as clear a red card. 00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:08.240 Do you know what? 00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:18.000 If I'd been a referee when the South African lad took out Thomas Williams, I'd have given him a red card, and then I'd blow my whistle and brought him back on again, so I could have given him a second red card. 00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:23.519 There was an act of

thuggery, and that deserved to be off the field full stop. 00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:27.359 Yeah, well, as you know, I am a fan of the 20-minute red card. 00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:33.440 I I like having different categories because I think it's good for the nature of the game. 00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:36.799 I mean, I've got a lot of total sympathy for most of what you say. 00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:52.880 I thought at one point the referee was going to ask the TMO whether he should have uh tea or coffee at halftime, but there is a problem whether you want to ignore it or not, and I do understand why you would want to ignore it, because it didn't look like a charge down. 00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:55.519 You look at it uh today and it wasn't a charge down. 00:30:55.920 --> 00:31:14.160 But there is a problem with the wording of the rules, because the rules say that in order for something not to be a knock-on, or rather they say something is not a knock-on, if the hands touch the ball immediately. 00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:28.240 And there is no definition of immediately, so you have to go to the plain English definition, which says that immediately means without any passing of time. 00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:40.640 So while that means that it definitely wasn't a charge down, unfortunately it means that there never has been a proper legal charge down in the history of rugby. 00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:45.279 And if you have rules that are that badly written, then you have a problem. 00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:47.119 I'm just gonna pull you up on one thing there. 00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:48.480 We don't have rules in rugby. 00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:51.119 Whatever it is, laws, whatever you want to call it. 00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:55.519 And laws are open to interpretation, whereas rules are fast and hard. 00:31:55.759 --> 00:32:14.000 But regardless of that facts, the interpretation of that law by the TMO, by the touch judge, and by the referee, but I think the only other people who could interpret in in that way was the refereeing assessors. 00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:17.680 And I know Dave Loxham has had a two-and-pro with a guy called Paul Murphy about it and everything. 00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:21.680 He said, you know, regardless of whether TMO was too involved, you got every one of them right. 00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:25.519 And the other person who would have given that interpretation was Stevie Wonder. 00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:38.400 Having played the game myself for 30 odd years, the amount of times I've done that, and you know, I've got charge stands, and it's literally been off the boot, and you're there, your body's on it, or it's a knock-on. 00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:39.519 Change the result. 00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:41.359 I know that's another one of your bug bears. 00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:46.640 If it'd been given as a knock-on, Cordy Laws goes to the bin, 12 players. 00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:51.759 We would have had a penalty try as well because there was no cover on RTV Shagani would have taken that kit. 00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:54.640 And that could have changed the game hugely. 00:32:55.119 --> 00:32:56.400 We didn't deserve to win. 00:32:56.559 --> 00:32:57.680 Well done, Cordy Laws. 00:32:57.920 --> 00:33:03.680 Swings and roundabouts, we'll get one in another game in the future sometime, where it'll go, oh wait, that's the way it is. 00:33:03.759 --> 00:33:06.240 But yeah, they could have done a bit better, really, I think. 00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:09.519 Do you think Gus Ward does criminal defences, by the way? 00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:25.039 We'll take a break there and we'll be back with a discussion that I had with Pete from Bears at the Gate by way of a preview to next Saturday's Oktoberfest against Bristol. 00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:31.440 Hey, it's Charlie Hodgson, and you are listening to the Fezcast. 00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:34.319 This is the Fezcast. 00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:42.640 If you're listening to the Bears Beyond the Gate podcast, the special edition that I believe Pete is going to put out, then I'm Duncan Reed from the Fez Cast. 00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:47.599 And if you're listening to the Fez Cast, I'm speaking to Pete Breerly from Bears Beyond the Gate. 00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:53.680 So, Pete, first of all, thanks for carving out some time during the day, as your busy day as a teacher. 00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:54.480 That's right. 00:33:54.559 --> 00:34:03.119 I am a I am a geography teacher, which I does, I don't know whether that qualifies for the phrase for my sins, but you know, I'll leave that up to your listeners. 00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:05.680 But yeah, luckily I've got a free period. 00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:08.719 I'm very pleased for the distraction from my daily job. 00:34:09.039 --> 00:34:11.440 Glad to tear you away from the little darlings. 00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:17.760 But your game on Saturday looked like it was a far more pleasant experience than the last time you played Saints. 00:34:18.079 --> 00:34:18.800 Well, yes. 00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:19.760 Well, it depends. 00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:23.599 I mean, the last time we played Saints at Ashton Gate, we we tend to do quite well. 00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:29.599 We beat them quite handsomely last year in November, although that was after the uh internationals. 00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:32.079 So they always say that they don't have a full side. 00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:45.599 But yeah, I mean it did form the narrative to sort of purge the memory of the horrific defeat, which of course most of your listeners will probably know we we shipped 94 points at Franklin's Gardens, which was a horrific result. 00:34:45.840 --> 00:35:04.639 And Pat Lamb has basically alluded to that virtually all season so far, saying that he planned the whole preseason round that result and he watched the game five times and he's never watched a game back that many times, and has actually framed you know our season in some ways to learn from that experience. 00:35:05.119 -->

00:35:18.159 You've had two games so far this season, two wins, and what the hell happened to that swashbuckling Bristol team of the last five years who had always collapse in a in a flimsy heap at the important moments? 00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:19.760 Well, good question. 00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:27.119 I I mean I think the reality was it was a little bit of a myth to say we were a swashbuckling team, always running it from everywhere. 00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:31.679 There has been a realization that you have to be good both sides of the ball. 00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:41.360 And I think that myth kind of came from the Charles Pietau, semi-Randranja days, where we did kind of score more than the opposition and almost, almost won the Prem. 00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:47.039 But I think now, you know, with other teams developing and so on, we we've had to develop a more balanced approach. 00:35:47.119 --> 00:36:08.559 And ironically, Saints is really the blueprint for that is you know, you have to start with a pack that are gonna A, give you quick ball and B, slow down the ball from the opposition, you know, provide a solid set piece, all that sort of stuff, all the slightly boring stuff, but of course, as we all know, really as fans, the really important stuff, but at the same time maintain that kind of, as you call it, swashbuckling thing. 00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:25.519 So I think what happened last year at Franklis Gardens, which was it was a little bit of an anomaly, actually, because last year we were quite pragmatic, and because we had injuries, we the first half the season, we we picked up quite a lot of wins by playing a more conservative defensive style because we didn't really have much choice. 00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:34.400 I don't know what happened at Saints, it was end of season, and but you know, essentially they just tore us apart and our forwards just were unable to slow the ball down. 00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:47.679 So I think a lot of the first two the first two games this season has been about starting with the pack, the pack getting dominance, but the pack also not just slowing the ball down against the opposition, but providing a platform for our backs, who of course can score. 00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:49.039 So I think that's the big difference. 00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:51.039 It's uh it's just getting that balance. 00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:59.840 Yeah, because it does take a lot of defensive heft to stop Northampton playing, and they did score a couple of their trademark tries. 00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:00.239 Oh, yeah. 00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:08.159 The way that they do, you know, running from depth, running in a little packet of players together, quick offloads, etc. 00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:15.840 But nevertheless, the flavour of the game that came across was steal from Bristol. 00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:17.199 Oh, yeah, absolutely. 00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:29.840 And one of the major, major factors is the return of our Argentinian lock, Pedro Rubiolo, who we essentially, when he got injured last season, that's when our season started to go go downhill. 00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:37.360 He is the kind of archetypal theft merchant, as you would call it, who does all of the not necessarily dirty work. 00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:38.719 We were talking about this on the pod. 00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:41.119 We don't think he's dirty, but we think he's filthy. 00:37:41.760 --> 00:37:44.639 He is a huge, huge part of our pack. 00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:49.519 And he goes alongside Joe Battley, who is also pretty hefty, but also quite skillful. 00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:52.639 And then I think we have a front row, to be honest. 00:37:52.719 --> 00:38:01.760 I think with Augrey, I mean, Ellis Genj didn't play on Saturday, but Jake Walmore, who's a stalwalk, did, and uh George Klosker, who's now raised his level a little bit. 00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:03.360 So he's had a cap. 00:38:03.679 --> 00:38:13.760 And then, of course, the big, big factor, I think, is the is the form and ability and stamina of Fitz Harding in the back row, who is just a one-man dynamo. 00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:17.599 And I think we've just this season, it it's all kind of come together. 00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:26.719 We've got that lovely balance of we've just got enough heft to slow the ball down, but also to create opportunities for us. 00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:32.159 But you're right, on Saturday, I mean, I was there watching it, and you know, we've scored a mall try straight away. 00:38:32.239 --> 00:38:33.360 I'm thinking, oh, this is good. 00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:36.320 And then with a blink of an eye, they just went, had a scrum. 00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:40.320 Pollock picks it up with one hand, full pace, passes it out to Hendy. 00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:42.000 You think, how that was so easy? 00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:44.719 And I like, you know, is that going to be the narrative? 00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:48.320 But you know, we got back in the game and it was a it was a really good game, actually. 00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:58.800 It was a really compelling game, and we probably won it really on the we had a purple patch of 20 minutes after half time, where we we scored three tries to none of theirs, and they lost their head a little bit. 00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:05.599 You could see Pollock sort of throwing his arms up in the air, and you know, it was a little bit of kind of Portuguese football team sort of with Ronaldo. 00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:13.440 I was thinking we've got to go for the jugular here, and then Alex Mitchell came on and changed the game for them, but we saw it through, and it was a it was a really, really good result. 00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:23.360 Not just purging that sort of memory of last season, but just for your first home game, sun's out, you score six tries, there's 20,000 plus people at Ashton Gate. 00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:26.480 It's all part of the positive vibes, as it were. 00:39:26.719 --> 00:39:30.559 Yeah, I want to come back to

the size of your crowds a bit later on. 00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:34.559 And it was interesting what you're talking about having some key players coming back. 00:39:34.639 --> 00:39:42.960 Because I don't think you've had any big signings during the offseason, but it sounds like you're benefiting from those players coming back and a settled squad. 00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:52.400 Yeah, we signed our one prem signing was a guy called Ethan Stadden, who was a bath back rower, who was a good player, but just hadn't really got a look in. 00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:57.920 And we signed him, and then he did his ACL about a week before we started trading. 00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:02.320 So we signed someone injured, and then really we had some championship signings. 00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:16.079 So a guy called Khalik Karim from Worcester, who uh comes with a big reputation but is also injured, still injured, and then a guy called Toby Wilson, who was Ealing Trailfinders fullback again, came with big plaud hits, but we haven't seen him yet. 00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:24.480 And a couple of there was a hooker, Sol Moody, and a fly half Louis Sinclair, who were kind of linked to Chiefs but had been on loan at Cornish Pirates. 00:40:24.559 --> 00:40:34.719 So you're right, there was no big signings, but obviously fans have asked that question as well as the club, and the answer, standard answer being, is that we've spent our money on retaining players who have got better. 00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:43.199 And some of our academy crop, like George Klosker, for example, you know, we've stuck with them and they're now kind of operating at a prem level. 00:40:43.280 --> 00:40:56.800 And I should also add that I think Lewis Reese Zamet has started the season very strongly, having had a bit of an iffy season for us last year, and we were worrying whether that was a bit of a waste of money, but he almost feels like a bit the new signing. 00:40:57.039 --> 00:40:59.199 He seems more comfortable, happy on the wing. 00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:05.920 As with all the clubs, it will all come down to how many injuries we have and who to and when and who's going to step up. 00:41:06.239 --> 00:41:08.960 Yeah, Lewis Rees Samet scored two tries. 00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:11.519 His first one I thought was extraordinary. 00:41:11.599 --> 00:41:14.960 It was classic, yeah, speedy LRZ. 00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:17.599 He got through a gap he didn't deserve to get through, did he? 00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:18.320 That's right. 00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:24.239 I mean, last season he played a lot of fullback because we kind of needed him, and he he he wasn't comfortable there. 00:41:24.480 --> 00:41:26.079 We've put him on the wing. 00:41:26.239 --> 00:41:30.480 He just needs someone to give him the ball with a bit of space in front of him, and that's his forte. 00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:32.079 And he has even said that. 00:41:32.159 --> 00:41:36.880 I think he was on a few podcasts, sort of saying he almost had to learn how to play rugby again last season. 00:41:37.119 --> 00:41:43.760 We weren't sold that when we signed it, but I do think he's like a new signing and a kind of a Galactico, as it were. 00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:56.800 His time in NFL sort of showed up how direct rugby players are, because he looked really static compared to somebody who's grown up as an NFL player. 00:41:56.880 --> 00:42:04.480 I mean, they turn on a sixpence, they turn 90 degrees, going uh a hundred miles an hour, and he was just a battering ram. 00:42:04.719 --> 00:42:08.000 Whereas, you know, playing rugby, he looks mobile, doesn't he? 00:42:08.239 --> 00:42:13.599 And uh I can well understand why it took him a year to learn how to play rugby again. 00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:17.920 His body shape had changed, and also all his habits were probably changed as well. 00:42:18.159 --> 00:42:20.480 No, I think it takes time to integrate in a club. 00:42:20.559 --> 00:42:34.320 I think he was living in Cardiff, he wasn't living in Bristol, so he was kind of going home, and I just think it takes time to get into that team mentality, and of course, you know, like Saracens have always been had that kind of team mentality, the wolfpack mentality. 00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:38.639 Bristol also talk a lot about the boys doing it together and the culture. 00:42:38.719 --> 00:42:46.320 And I think if someone's sort of going home to Wales every night, you know, it's taken a bit of time for him to integrate, I would say. 00:42:46.639 --> 00:42:47.199 Yeah. 00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:51.440 Well, we were dreadful yesterday, and so far you've been brilliant. 00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:54.239 So, based on that, you are the favourites for Saturday. 00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:55.599 There's no two ways about it. 00:42:55.760 --> 00:42:57.920 But it's a crazy league, isn't it? 00:42:58.159 --> 00:43:01.119 Well, I watched the game yesterday, so I I did watch your game. 00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:08.000 It was on and it was partly our fault because I think Sale got quite a shock. 00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:16.239 I don't think they were expecting us to play like we did, and we hadn't won up in Manchester for a long time, and we kind of outsailed Sale. 00:43:16.639 --> 00:43:22.880 You know, Fitz Harding played better than Tom Curry, and George Ford had a bit of a shocker because we actually put the pressure on them. 00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:27.920 So I think they had a bit of a heart, soul searching week, and they came out. 00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:33.440 I thought they were much better sale, you know, sort of up for the fight a bit and physical and so forth. 00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:42.000 So that's my worry is that they're gonna do to you what we did to them, and you're gonna have a week of sort of soul searching and then come back strong against us. 00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:44.079 And you've got to look at the weight of history, Duncan. 00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:51.920 We have never, ever won at the Stone X, and we haven't beaten

you home or away for 10 years. 00:43:52.159 --> 00:43:58.800 The closest I remember was a Joe Joyce forward pass at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, where we should have won that game. 00:43:58.880 --> 00:43:59.840 I actually caught Curry. 00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:01.119 COVID from that as well. 00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:01.920 Oh wow. 00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:02.960 Good day, eh? 00:44:03.440 --> 00:44:04.400 So thanks for that. 00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:06.800 So it was a double, it was a double shocker. 00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:10.960 You know, I don't know what I thought going on a train and then to a massive stadium would be a good idea. 00:44:11.039 --> 00:44:16.320 But anyway, so I guess what you're saying is it's the classic sort of how do you analyze this? 00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:20.559 Big picture-wise, it is a massive bogey place for us to go. 00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:23.920 But, you know, as you say, we are looking quite strong. 00:44:24.079 --> 00:44:27.119 You look a little bit rattled yesterday. 00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:28.880 I don't know, it's just so hard. 00:44:29.519 --> 00:44:33.679 I came to your game last year and we lost 50 something or whatever. 00:44:33.840 --> 00:44:34.800 It was horrendous. 00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:38.719 And you'd already scored like two or three tries before we'd even got out of bed, really. 00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:44.000 It was I and I think I think once you we went behind, we there was just you know, we had no chance. 00:44:44.079 --> 00:44:48.000 So I, you know, on the pitch that you've got, you're obviously very prepared to play on that. 00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:54.800 But I think I think hopefully we'll learn from last year, and I think we'll try and like Sale did yesterday, you know, they shut you down. 00:44:54.880 --> 00:44:56.000 You didn't score, did you? 00:44:56.079 --> 00:45:02.559 When they had a red card and a if we can stop you getting off to a fast start, then who knows? 00:45:02.719 --> 00:45:04.480 But like anything, it'd be a battle up front. 00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:11.360 It's gonna who's gonna win those battles up front because both teams need to win those battles, and then your backs can do their business. 00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:13.679 So I think it's gonna be a fascinating game. 00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:16.000 I think you're being a little bit pessimistic. 00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:22.239 I think you've still got to look at the sort of team you've got and the players you've got, and the but hopefully a much better game than last year. 00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:29.599 We've definitely got the players, we've got a great squad of players, especially with the youngsters coming through like Jack Bracken. 00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:31.519 You saw what he can do yesterday. 00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:47.039 But that performance was typical of the previous two or three seasons that we've had, where we seemed to be incapable of doing anything apart from stuffing it up our jumper and running straight into the defence. 00:45:47.840 --> 00:45:50.480 We just kept running into a brick wall. 00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:52.320 That used to be alright against Bristol. 00:45:52.400 --> 00:46:01.519 I remember a game we played down your way at Ashton Gate, and uh basically we just had to keep defending until I batoy ran out of puff, and then we were all right. 00:46:01.599 --> 00:46:02.000 Yeah. 00:46:02.320 --> 00:46:03.920 That's not what you are this season. 00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:06.800 No, I mean I think we are in a different space. 00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:09.920 Every game, I think, this season is gonna be a test for all teams. 00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:19.360 I think there's been a convergence amongst teams, and on their day, most teams can beat each other, although I'm not sure Quinn's fans at the moment would say that. 00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:23.039 But you know, even Newcastle's gonna give some teams a hard time. 00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:24.559 It's interesting that you say that. 00:46:24.639 --> 00:46:31.440 I mean, what do you think you'll do then to rectify any failings that you observed against Sale on Sunday? 00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:38.000 Brendan Ventner will just say that we made too many mistakes and that we've just got to tighten up. 00:46:38.239 --> 00:46:48.960 And it's a question mark that I have because I've heard him say during the week that we are going to get better than teams like Northampton by being better in defence. 00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:52.960 Well, that's fine, but you've still got to know how to attack. 00:46:53.599 --> 00:47:03.599 Like in previous seasons, the problem we have is getting our fantastically exciting young backs into space. 00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:09.440 The minute we do that, see what Jack Bracken can do with just a yard of space. 00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:12.880 But at the moment we're not getting there, and that's what we've got to change. 00:47:13.199 --> 00:47:23.039 Bristol's failings has been for a lack of precision or not being clinical or being going backwards and forwards, backs and forwards, and eventually dropping it, as you alluded to. 00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:26.480 But, you know, it is easy, isn't it, to say we've just got to be more clinical. 00:47:26.559 --> 00:47:31.599 And it's like, well, it's not just about the team, the attacking team, it's about what the defending team are doing. 00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:37.760 And, you know, if you're worried about being not clinical enough, that's partly because you're being put under pressure. 00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:42.480 And I think Bristol will be looking at that sale game with a huge amount of interest. 00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:45.119 We put Northampton Saints under pressure a lot. 00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:47.440 We put Sale under pressure in the first week. 00:47:47.599 --> 00:47:54.559 We are going to be very much focused on trying to do that, create chaos that causes you to lose your precision. 00:47:54.639 --> 00:48:05.679 I mean, our one one positive that you've got, perhaps,

I'm pretty sure Bernard Jansse van Rensburg won't be playing because obviously he got injured, but then in the second half he was sat on the bench. 00:48:05.760 --> 00:48:10.559 So it wasn't that much, but I can't believe he'll get through concussion protocols by Saturday. 00:48:10.719 --> 00:48:13.039 And he is a massive part of our defence as well. 00:48:13.199 --> 00:48:30.639 And we have got a bit of a problem in terms of who's going to take his place because Tom Jordan stepped up in the second half, and he's a class operator, but then Lewis Re-Savit had to go at fullback, which isn't necessarily where we wanted him, and we haven't really got anybody. 00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:38.400 We've got a couple of young lads that might have to step in so on that that midfield because that's going to be a very important part of the pitch as well. 00:48:38.559 --> 00:48:41.920 So it's going to be interesting, it's going to be a fascinating game. 00:48:42.079 --> 00:48:48.559 But I still think your favourites, even though you say we're favourites, I just think you have to look at the history of our fixtures there. 00:48:48.800 --> 00:48:50.239 Well, you are cheering me up, Pete. 00:48:50.320 --> 00:48:50.719 I've got to check. 00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:52.079 I know, I know, I can't believe it. 00:48:52.159 --> 00:48:56.559 My listeners are going to be furious with me, but I think they I think I'm being realistic. 00:48:56.800 --> 00:48:59.760 We lost Theodan and Elliot Daly. 00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:01.920 Not the end of the world, though. 00:49:02.159 --> 00:49:03.280 Great players as they are. 00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:06.639 I mean, Theo Dan had another bit of a nightmare in the line out. 00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:12.480 Even though Jamie George isn't fit, we've got very good three and four hookers. 00:49:12.639 --> 00:49:15.039 Not as good as sales hooker, he was absolutely brilliant. 00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:15.920 Tibuly. 00:49:16.239 --> 00:49:17.440 Yeah, absolutely brilliant. 00:49:17.519 --> 00:49:25.440 But and at fullback as well, we're quite well blessed, not just with Max Malins, who you'll know, and uh who is a good fullback. 00:49:25.519 --> 00:49:30.480 He had a great end of last season, but also Jack Bracken, Noah Calore. 00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:33.760 We've got some really good young fullbacks as well. 00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:40.159 In many ways, you give Jack Bracken the space of being a fullback, and I think he's he's our most dangerous fullback. 00:49:40.239 --> 00:49:44.000 And so hopefully he'll get to play there for at least a bit of the game. 00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:45.840 Yeah, it's interesting, Max Malins. 00:49:46.159 --> 00:49:51.280 He enjoyed the coffee shops at Clifton, and obviously we had Ben Earl, you know, he's an absolute class player. 00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:57.039 I like to think that we brought him on for you, Ben Earl, to make him make we it was a Bristol was his finishing school. 00:49:57.119 --> 00:50:02.880 But anyway, obviously

Max Malin sort of came back and we only saw him for about two games before he got injured. 00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:09.360 Ben Earl, I worry about, I fear, because I just I think he's an absolute superb player, and I think it's going to be another great matchup. 00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:23.280 We've had Fitz Harding against Tom Curry, Fitz Harding against Henry Pollock, and Fitz Harding against Ben Earl is going to be an interesting because Fitz Harding is knocking very heavily on the England door, and even everyone says, Oh, it's competitive. 00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:29.760 It's like, but you look at the stats, he is leading, and I don't think Borfwick can ignore him for too much longer. 00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:31.519 I mean, he's been had an England A cap. 00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:35.599 I think he might get in in the squad, but it's going to be tough. 00:50:35.679 --> 00:50:38.079 I think that's going to be a fascinating matchup. 00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:46.239 As I mentioned, our big lad Rubiolo, I mean, him and a toji, that's kind of big two big internationals going head to head. 00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:50.079 It may be that they just neuter each other and let all the others play. 00:50:50.159 --> 00:50:50.800 I don't I don't know. 00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:52.880 It's uh it's gonna be it's gonna be interesting. 00:50:53.039 --> 00:50:53.760 I'm now tempted. 00:50:53.840 --> 00:50:55.280 I'm I was kind of thinking of coming actually. 00:50:55.360 --> 00:50:57.199 It's a bit of a pain to get up to Barnett. 00:50:57.280 --> 00:50:58.320 So I'm toying with it. 00:50:58.400 --> 00:51:03.280 I'm thinking that you've now made me think, could this be the year we do beat you there? 00:51:03.360 --> 00:51:05.519 And it'd be nice to be there when it happens. 00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:08.000 If we play like yesterday, it will be. 00:51:08.239 --> 00:51:21.840 But the last question I wanted to ask you is it's wonderful to see the uh crowds that you get in Bristol for rugby games, the sort of crowds that we could probably get if our nearest Premier League football team was in Birmingham. 00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:27.360 But how does that translate into kids and what have you in the city? 00:51:27.519 --> 00:51:33.599 Do they talk about Bristol Bears as opposed to being completely consumed by Spurs and Arsenal? 00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:36.320 Yeah, I think club has worked really hard. 00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:42.159 Uh the whole rebrand, the whole Bears rebrand, the whole moving to Ashton Gate was all about building. 00:51:42.639 --> 00:51:44.159 It is still a niche sport, though. 00:51:44.320 --> 00:51:47.519 Bristol City will get more numbers than we do. 00:51:47.840 --> 00:51:52.559 But Bristol City, you know, famously can never get to the top flight. 00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:58.880 And Bristol Bears have kind of carved without actually ever winning anything much, apart from the challenge cut, which was brilliant, by the way. 00:51:59.039 --> 00:52:00.960 You know, we we we're flattering a lot. 00:52:01.119 --> 00:52:05.760 And I think because we're part of the Bristol sport family as well, we're probably piggybacking on a bit. 00:52:05.920 --> 00:52:09.840 I understand there's a reasonable number of dual season ticket holders between football and rugby. 00:52:09.920 --> 00:52:11.679 But Bristol is a rugby city as well. 00:52:11.840 --> 00:52:13.840 There's a lot of grassroots rugby there. 00:52:14.079 --> 00:52:14.880 It's hard to tell. 00:52:14.960 --> 00:52:16.639 I mean, that you know, there are a lot of kids there. 00:52:16.719 --> 00:52:17.920 We've worked really hard. 00:52:18.239 --> 00:52:33.679 It was quid a kid on Saturday, and we filled up the attio, which is the the away end for the football, which is traditionally the one that's always empty, and and they've worked really hard to try and get that full with something, students or stag du's or anything, because it's kind of separate, so they can keep out of the way. 00:52:33.840 --> 00:52:39.199 Because I think if you can create a bit of atmosphere in the stadium, we said 20,000 it was yesterday. 00:52:39.280 --> 00:52:46.320 I mean, I feel like we could with a lot of marketing, we could do that every home game, but of course, winning helps. 00:52:46.639 --> 00:52:51.840 And if you go on a bad trot, then you know your fair weather fans don't tend to turn up. 00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:54.800 So the best marketing strategy you can have is to win. 00:52:55.039 --> 00:53:01.280 Yeah, especially in a stadium that size where you won't be able to sell many season tickets because everybody can always get a ticket. 00:53:01.519 --> 00:53:07.440 Yeah, I mean, a good fun fact for your listeners is that a Bristol Bears game is actually the biggest ever attendance at Ashton Gate. 00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:09.280 It was Bristol Bath a few years ago. 00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:20.239 We actually technically sold out 26,700, which was more than Bristol City would ever get because they have to segregate the away fans, so they always have a they always have to have a gap, whereas we don't. 00:53:20.320 --> 00:53:21.440 So it's a good one for rugby. 00:53:21.519 --> 00:53:22.880 It was a good one for rugby there. 00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:25.599 So it we have we have filled it, but it's it's very rare. 00:53:25.679 --> 00:53:26.320 It's very rare. 00:53:26.480 --> 00:53:30.480 So it sounds like um, you know, a marketing company that plays rugby day and off. 00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:34.239 Well, you know, I'm surprised it's taken you that long to mention it. 00:53:34.400 --> 00:53:36.960 Uh although, yeah, I mean that was funny. 00:53:37.119 --> 00:53:41.360 Because actually, we also like to think that we brought on your social media team quite well at Saracen. 00:53:41.440 --> 00:53:45.519 Because there's been with the Benel, uh Max Malens, there was a lot of good banter after that. 00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:52.800 And I think there was a I can't remember what it was, but there was a very

cheeky comeback from uh Saracens on that marketing thing, which made me laugh. 00:53:52.880 --> 00:53:54.079 It's all good fun, isn't it? 00:53:54.320 --> 00:53:55.039 It was funny. 00:53:55.280 --> 00:54:03.679 And we did, I mean, funnily enough, yeah, uh Tom Tainton, who is a good bloke actually, and a really, you know, quite a forward-thinking CEO, did get a bit of pelters for that. 00:54:03.920 --> 00:54:07.599 It's kind of and then even the club started taking the Mickey out of themselves a little bit. 00:54:07.679 --> 00:54:14.079 So uh, but as I say, everyone's happy when you're winning and scoring tries, and it doesn't matter, it's when you don't that's uh the problem. 00:54:14.559 --> 00:54:15.679 We'll see, we'll see. 00:54:15.760 --> 00:54:17.679 So I've got one question for you, Duncan. 00:54:17.840 --> 00:54:18.320 Go on then. 00:54:18.639 --> 00:54:23.920 And it's a bit of a tongue-in-cheek question, but uh Max Mainlands famously always wears tights when he's playing. 00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:26.320 I mean, it do what do you think as a home fan? 00:54:26.480 --> 00:54:37.119 Do you feel like you think that your boys should really front up a little bit and and play with shorts and leave it to the opposition to to sort of worry about the the surface? 00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:38.480 No, definitely not. 00:54:38.559 --> 00:54:41.920 I'm amazed that more players don't wear tights, to be honest with you. 00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:47.119 I've actually played touch rugby on on the pitch, and it's much harder than you imagine. 00:54:47.199 --> 00:54:49.760 When you walk on it after the game, it feels really bouncy. 00:54:49.920 --> 00:54:52.480 When you're playing on it, it feels really hard. 00:54:52.719 --> 00:54:56.000 You can see the photos of the burns that players get. 00:54:56.239 --> 00:54:58.239 As a spectator, I love it. 00:54:58.400 --> 00:54:58.960 It's fast. 00:54:59.119 --> 00:55:05.280 You know, I I know grass pitches now are much, much better than they used to be, but you get a fast game the whole year. 00:55:05.440 --> 00:55:07.440 It's a great surface for a spectator. 00:55:07.519 --> 00:55:15.039 I know that there are certain players who hate it, but overall I love the pitch and can't understand why more players don't wear tights. 00:55:15.280 --> 00:55:23.199 And my final question is there was some hint on Sunday that your attendance wasn't as good as you hoped it might be in terms of numbers at the ground. 00:55:23.360 --> 00:55:24.159 Was that a case? 00:55:24.320 --> 00:55:27.440 Do you think you'll get more for Bristol? 00:55:27.679 --> 00:55:31.679 Or what's your thoughts on the kind of numbers that you're getting at the Stone Ecks? 00:55:32.079 --> 00:55:32.960 We struggle. 00:55:33.119 --> 00:55:34.559 I alluded to it earlier. 00:55:34.719 --> 00:55:34.960 Yeah. 00:55:35.199 --> 00:55:47.360 The area of Surrey that Harlequins inhabit is in the shadow of Twickenham, is a rugby area, and they will they will sell out 15,000

with no trouble. 00:55:47.760 --> 00:55:57.679 The previous management got a map from the RFU of where people live who buy tickets to go and see England. 00:55:58.000 --> 00:56:07.119 And when you put a red flag in for everybody who does that, the area around Harlequins is crimson and Barnet is pure white. 00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:07.760 Yeah. 00:56:08.079 --> 00:56:16.079 Because I live in Mill Hill, I live within walking distance of the ground, and Saracens are invisible. 00:56:16.480 --> 00:56:26.559 You get off the shuttle to walk to Saracens, you'll walk past 30 football pitches, and then the power league, where all the teenagers are playing football. 00:56:26.719 --> 00:56:33.199 I do a little bit of volunteering in schools, and in those schools, rugby doesn't exist. 00:56:33.599 --> 00:56:34.719 Nice interesting. 00:56:34.960 --> 00:56:37.199 It's all Arsenal and Tottenham. 00:56:37.519 --> 00:56:46.719 And getting a presence, we've had various CEOs who tried different strategies, and we just got a new one this season. 00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:51.199 It's very, very hard to get that presence. 00:56:51.679 --> 00:57:03.199 Yeah, and I mean I going back to your question earlier, I mean, Bristol, you know, it has a has an identity as a city, it's not too big, but you know, Bristolians and Bristol and we play all that, and Ellis Genj and all this sort of stuff. 00:57:03.280 --> 00:57:05.519 And I do think that gives us a huge advantage. 00:57:05.679 --> 00:57:11.760 And it is difficult if you are a, you know, you're a suburb of a of the capital city that is mainly football dominated. 00:57:11.920 --> 00:57:16.320 But of course, you've been incredibly successful, and you know, that's that's interesting too. 00:57:16.480 --> 00:57:18.559 So I don't really know what the answer is, really. 00:57:18.639 --> 00:57:19.760 I it it's hard, isn't it? 00:57:20.239 --> 00:57:21.280 It's very, very hard. 00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:22.480 I may give you another thing. 00:57:22.559 --> 00:57:26.000 You know, the the competition in London is unbelievable. 00:57:26.159 --> 00:57:33.679 We now have to contend with, right on our doorstep, four sold-out NFL games in massive stadia. 00:57:33.840 --> 00:57:43.280 You know, the the competition for those people who've got the time, the inclination, and the money to go to regular live sport is cutthroat. 00:57:43.440 --> 00:57:50.559 Which is why, again, I've said I've said it on the pod before, why Northampton will regularly get 14 to 15,000. 00:57:50.800 --> 00:57:53.519 There's bugger all to do in Northampton. 00:57:54.079 --> 00:57:54.480 Yeah. 00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:55.679 You know what, Duncan? 00:57:55.760 --> 00:57:57.840 You're almost making me feel sorry for you here. 00:57:58.320 --> 00:57:59.760 That's the idea. 00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:04.320 Well, uh, I think uh maybe we should leave it at that, uh at that point. 00:58:04.400 --> 00:58:06.480 But um, yeah, no, I appreciate your insights. 00:58:06.559 --> 00:58:17.199 It's it's it's it's always very interesting to hear, you know, go beyond the the headlines a little bit and hear about you know what goes on behind the scenes at clubs and and fans as the frustrations that fans have and so on. 00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:20.000 It's always it's always good to uh to hear that as well. 00:58:20.239 --> 00:58:26.239 The plus side is yeah, I hope you'd agree with this, having been to the Stone Ecks, the match day experience is fantastic. 00:58:26.400 --> 00:58:26.960 Oh, it's brilliant. 00:58:27.039 --> 00:58:35.280 I went last year, I was really impressed with the whole setup, the food, you know, everything was really and I love the fact that you can go right up to the side of the pitch when they're warming up. 00:58:35.360 --> 00:58:39.199 And I like that about Quinn's, and actually, I like that that's the trouble with Ashton Gate. 00:58:39.280 --> 00:58:45.440 It's a we can't do that, it's a football stadium, and they can't do it, although they've worked as hard as they can for that kind of engagement. 00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:46.400 But I love that, yeah. 00:58:46.480 --> 00:58:48.239 I loved it at Saras's last year. 00:58:48.320 --> 00:58:56.800 It was in fact, we had a young lad playing, he was a guy called Aidan Boschoff, who has who's an academy winger, played last year, acquitted himself very well. 00:58:57.039 --> 00:59:12.639 He'd come over and he was talking to his mum and dad and his girlfriend or something, and I was sort of ear wigging, and he was sort of talking about how he he'd like almost got into a fight with Owen Farrell, and now he was like so impressed, he was like fast, and he was like, he was giving me some pals, and he was like, he was like a star-struck teenager. 00:59:12.800 --> 00:59:15.840 The fact that he'd almost you know got a rise out of Owen Farrell. 00:59:16.079 --> 00:59:18.079 So yeah, it's uh it was it's good fun. 00:59:18.239 --> 00:59:22.800 I enjoyed it, and that's that's why you know I'd probably I'm I'm 50-50 at the moment. 00:59:22.880 --> 00:59:25.039 So oh well, go on, give it a go, Pete. 00:59:25.119 --> 00:59:25.599 Give it a go. 00:59:25.760 --> 00:59:26.480 Might see you there. 00:59:26.559 --> 00:59:28.000 All right, look, we got a run. 00:59:28.159 --> 00:59:29.199 Brilliant talking to you. 00:59:29.360 --> 00:59:30.079 Thanks once again. 00:59:30.239 --> 00:59:30.880 Enjoyed it. 00:59:31.039 --> 00:59:34.480 Thank you very much, and uh may the best team win on Saturday. 00:59:34.719 --> 00:59:35.679 Being us. 00:59:36.960 --> 00:59:37.280 Okay. 00:59:40.880 --> 00:59:44.880 Hi, this is Petra Stublissi, and you are listening to the Fez Cast. 00:59:45.360 --> 00:59:47.440 This is the FizzCast. 00:59:48.079 --> 00:59:49.119 So, welcome back. 00:59:49.280 --> 00:59:51.360 I hope you all enjoyed that chat. 00:59:51.519 --> 00:59:54.480 I certainly did, and thanks to Pete for doing it. 00:59:54.719 --> 01:00:00.320 Harriet, I I didn't realise we had such a hoodoo

over Bristol and that we haven't lost against them for ten years. 01:00:00.719 --> 01:00:03.280 I'd have no clue to be fair. 01:00:03.760 --> 01:00:18.480 It's really interesting with game dynamics when you start thinking about stats like that, because I tend to be quite like a present person, so I don't look too much in the stats of the past to predict games. 01:00:18.880 --> 01:00:26.159 I can imagine that does impact the psychology of the players who do look back, and that that is quite a team stat. 01:00:26.719 --> 01:00:29.840 It's also quite a good start for the Saracens, though. 01:00:30.400 --> 01:00:34.960 Yeah, I hope it's not like when I once went to a Nottingham Forest game at Tottenham. 01:00:35.360 --> 01:00:41.360 The Forest fans chanted the whole game, we always beat Tottenham, and we immediately got beaten 2-0. 01:00:41.599 --> 01:00:42.400 So there you go. 01:00:42.559 --> 01:00:45.920 But Barry, no Van Rensburg and a small squad. 01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:47.280 Is there hope for us? 01:00:47.599 --> 01:00:48.639 Of course there's hope. 01:00:48.800 --> 01:00:58.559 Then missing Van Rensburg is a massive plus for us because he generally played very, very well against us, has done even from his his London Irish days. 01:00:58.800 --> 01:01:01.039 So, yes, there's a bonus there. 01:01:01.360 --> 01:01:13.199 We need to go out there and make a statement, and we should use last weekend as our motivation and our decision to put up a statement after last weekend. 01:01:13.360 --> 01:01:19.440 We were poor last weekend, let's go out and do everything that we're supposed to do and that we did against Leicester. 01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:24.880 Let's get back on that horse and and make sure that we show a reaction from last weekend. 01:01:25.119 --> 01:01:31.199 This is almost like episode 32, episode 14, episode 18 of season six, isn't it? 01:01:31.360 --> 01:01:32.559 Yeah, bad result. 01:01:32.719 --> 01:01:36.480 We need to see an impact, we need to see a see a reaction. 01:01:36.800 --> 01:01:38.719 But it is the nature of the league, isn't it? 01:01:38.800 --> 01:01:49.440 I mean, Pete from Bristol made the point that they stuffed sail so badly that they probably came at us like you know, men with a purpose, and hopefully we will do that. 01:01:49.679 --> 01:01:52.159 And we've got Noah Claury back, I think. 01:01:52.400 --> 01:01:56.719 I think it's his turn now, so it'll be back with his with his new wrists. 01:01:56.880 --> 01:02:05.760 So if Charlie Bracken puts up a kick, a high kick with one minute to go, and we need a few points, at least we'll have a better chance of catching it and getting it back, won't we? 01:02:05.920 --> 01:02:07.760 Oh, don't start me on that. 01:02:08.079 --> 01:02:11.679 Everybody around me was groaning, saying, Oh, Charlie, what are you doing? 01:02:12.079 --> 01:02:18.320 To be fair, it was said on commentary, I think, that last season Noah Clory is a cheat code. 01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:19.840 So you're gonna use that. 01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:22.880 And yeah, if you've got Noah there, you use it and do it. 01:02:23.039 --> 01:02:30.159 I don't think Ratini Shagin and Jack Bracken did too badly chasing a lot of those kicks. 01:02:30.400 --> 01:02:38.079 The problem was what happened after it, where we didn't have the players getting there, and there was an awful lot of problems. 01:02:38.159 --> 01:02:39.519 I think, you know, front row. 01:02:39.679 --> 01:02:46.960 Listen, Alec Clary, great lad, puts 100% F in, but he's never gonna be the lad who springs into the breakdown. 01:02:47.119 --> 01:02:52.159 George Martin, he's a big, strong boy, but he's not quick, quick, quick. 01:02:52.320 --> 01:02:55.920 I do think that maybe we did kick a bit too often last time. 01:02:56.000 --> 01:02:59.360 But if you've got Narcal Aurie on the field, you use him as a weapon, don't you? 01:02:59.440 --> 01:03:01.119 And I and I think they will do. 01:03:01.360 --> 01:03:03.199 You're absolutely right about Jack Fracken. 01:03:03.360 --> 01:03:06.800 It was one of the you know high points on our side. 01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:15.920 He caught some amazing eyeballs, and he caught some high balls with a lot of players uh going for them at the same time and and took a good battering. 01:03:16.320 --> 01:03:18.559 So, okay, we'll leave it there. 01:03:18.800 --> 01:03:25.519 And next Saturday, 5:30 Oktoberfest kickoff, all the signs around the ground were saying. 01:03:25.679 --> 01:03:31.760 So thanks to Jez, Barry, and Harriet, and thanks for you for joining us. 01:03:31.920 --> 01:03:33.679 Looking forward to next Saturday.