Full Transcript for Throwback: Chris Ballew - Musician (The Presidents of the United States of America / Caspar Babypants)

call me that again. 73 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:28.000 So I had a colon ascaby they found a couple 74 00:04:27.959 --> 00:04:28.639 of pewallips. 75 00:04:28.839 --> 00:04:33.319 Oh that sounds fantastic. So I know that from a 76 00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:36.079 very early age you were interested in music. 77 00:04:36.519 --> 00:04:40.800 Yeah, why, well it was Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts club Band. Really, 78 00:04:40.879 --> 00:04:43.160 I mean well, the very first was me banging on 79 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:45.240 a piano with a hammer. I didn't know that you 80 00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:47.560 could use the keys. I was probably one and a half. 81 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:50.519 I was doing a John Cage vibe at the age 82 00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:52.720 one and a half, smacking the piano. And then I 83 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:56.360 discovered Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Heart Club Band, which just at 84 00:04:56.399 --> 00:04:58.360 the age of two and a half, I got my 85 00:04:58.439 --> 00:05:01.319 mits on that thing. Had bought it for my parents 86 00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:04.000 as a Christmas gift that year in nineteen sixty seven, 87 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:06.480 and they filed it away, and I took it out 88 00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:09.759 and basically listened to that for the next nine years. 89 00:05:10.519 --> 00:05:12.360 Did you say at two and a half you got 90 00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:13.399 your mits on that record? 91 00:05:13.639 --> 00:05:16.040 Yeah, I was born in nineteen sixty five, so I 92 00:05:16.120 --> 00:05:17.800 was two and a half when it came out in 93 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:21.319 June of sixty seven, and I was born in May, 94 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:23.800 so I that Christmas of sixty seven, I was two 95 00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:24.240 and a half. 96 00:05:24.600 --> 00:05:27.000 Let me be the first to tell you Happy birthday 97 00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:27.720 for next May. 98 00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:30.279 Thank you. I appreciate that this. 99 00:05:30.279 --> 00:05:33.040 Is going to sound like a ridiculous question, but at 100 00:05:33.079 --> 00:05:34.839 two and a half years old, you were able to 101 00:05:34.839 --> 00:05:37.240 put the needle on the record without scratching. 102 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:40.319 It, apparently, because the legend is I pulled that thing out. 103 00:05:40.439 --> 00:05:42.839 You know, maybe I didn't actually pull it out until 104 00:05:42.920 --> 00:05:44.319 the next spring or something. 105 00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:46.240 Maybe I was oh, yeah, sure, three. 106 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:46.720 Let's say three. 107 00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:47.279 Yeah. 108 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:50.240 Yeah, I mean that Christmas I was two and a half. 109 00:05:50.279 --> 00:05:52.240 But I don't think I actually zeroed in on the 110 00:05:52.279 --> 00:05:55.279 record until I was three. Probably that's going to this 111 00:05:55.319 --> 00:05:57.600 is the first time I'm adjusting the story now. 112 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:00.639 Yeah, So you started off lying and all, yeah, because 113 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:02.360 I asked how you did it at two and a half, 114 00:06:02.399 --> 00:06:03.800 You're like, no, no, I was three when I could 115 00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:05.759 put it a needle on the record without scratching it. 116 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:07.759 Before I could put a needle on a record without 117 00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:11.600 scratching it, I was thirty. No, I was. 118 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:13.360 I was gonna say sixteen. 119 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:15.800 I was definitely in my teens for sure. 120 00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:18.920 Yeah, that record just like set off a movie in 121 00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:21.160 my head. I saw what they were singing, and I 122 00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:23.839 felt what they were singing. The music and the lyrics 123 00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:28.399 like all created this psychedelic experience for me. And we'll 124 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:30.040 get to it eventually. But one of the reasons I 125 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:33.040 made music for little kids zero to five year old specifically, 126 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:36.639 is because they are having a psychedelic experience and I 127 00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:40.800 wanted to be involved in that world. You know. That's 128 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:43.519 when music was really first turned on in my brain. 129 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:47.240 So yeah, that album just turned me on and I've 130 00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:48.160 been on ever since. 131 00:06:48.759 --> 00:06:51.959 Now, your parents are they musically inclined? Do they play instruments? 132 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:53.920 Were they in bands growing up? That kind of thing? 133 00:06:54.120 --> 00:06:56.519 None of that stuff. But my mom was a piano player, 134 00:06:56.639 --> 00:07:00.120 you know, as a hobby, and loved classical music and 135 00:07:00.199 --> 00:07:01.839 took me to the symphony a lot when I was 136 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:03.959 a little kid and sort of turned me onto all 137 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:06.920 that stuff, And then my dad was into hillbilly music 138 00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:07.839 and country music. 139 00:07:08.120 --> 00:07:09.360 What's hillbilly music? 140 00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:15.360 Well, you know like Bill Monroe, mandolin fiddle, no drums, okay, 141 00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:18.319 high loansome? Oh brother, where art thou am? I hitting 142 00:07:18.360 --> 00:07:19.079 any buttons yet? 143 00:07:19.639 --> 00:07:19.800 Yeah? 144 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:23.160 Mountain music, Yeah, mountain music. We call it hillbilly is. 145 00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:26.079 Also his definition of country was if it has drums, 146 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:28.600 it's not country. So he was not down with a 147 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:29.399 young country. 148 00:07:29.560 --> 00:07:32.120 He needs a wash tub or a box to thump 149 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:32.879 on or something. 150 00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:36.560 I guess. So,

yeah, that's just what he used to say. 151 00:07:36.600 --> 00:07:38.759 If it's got drums, I don't listen to it. Burt. 152 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:41.759 So, when your mom used to take you to symphonies 153 00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:44.519 and things, did she pat you down and search you 154 00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:46.639 for hammers like. 155 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:48.360 I was gonna get up and bang on the piano? 156 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:49.199 Yeah? 157 00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:51.079 Yeah she probably should have. She didn't know, but I 158 00:07:51.079 --> 00:07:53.240 had a trench coach just full of hammers. 159 00:07:54.360 --> 00:07:56.480 Do you imagine that, just like a small child. It 160 00:07:56.560 --> 00:07:57.959 was just a whole shitload of hammers. 161 00:07:58.920 --> 00:08:01.160 She's taking them out and throw too. 162 00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:02.600 Oh my gosh, that'd be amazing. 163 00:08:02.839 --> 00:08:03.480 Yeah. 164 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:06.000 So what did you want to be when you grew up? 165 00:08:06.040 --> 00:08:08.399 Obviously you're going to say something in music, right. 166 00:08:08.600 --> 00:08:10.040 Yeah, I mean I wanted to be a musician. 167 00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:12.839 Did you go to school, college, university or anything like that. 168 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:15.519 I did. I went to State University of New York 169 00:08:15.560 --> 00:08:18.199 at purchase to be an artist. Actually I got a 170 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:19.360 Bachelor of Fine Arts. 171 00:08:19.759 --> 00:08:22.360 Oh yeah, Why did you go all the way across 172 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:23.279 the country. 173 00:08:23.560 --> 00:08:26.240 So I could understand the East Coast and the Northeast 174 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:29.399 and New York and just kind of like expand my horizons, 175 00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:31.959 you know, just kind of taste a different coast. 176 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:35.200 So is that like fine art? Like you draw and 177 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:36.799 you paint and you do stuff like that. 178 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:39.159 Yeah, I you know, I didn't know. I didn't have 179 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:41.720 a voice as an art. I did visual art all 180 00:08:41.759 --> 00:08:44.639 the time when I was a kid. I drew and 181 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:47.919 painted and did stupid, you know, little cartoons in my 182 00:08:48.039 --> 00:08:50.600 journal or whatever. We had to have a journal for school, 183 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:52.120 so it was like every week you had to turn 184 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:54.120 in a certain number of pages of writing or drawing 185 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:56.440 or something. So I was doing that. I went to 186 00:08:56.559 --> 00:08:59.039 art school mostly because I wanted to avoid going to 187 00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:02.080 music school. I did want to learn all the choral 188 00:09:02.120 --> 00:09:05.559 relationships and all the theory, and I hated music theory. 189 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:09.279 Even when I

was a teenager. My piano teacher tried 190 00:09:09.279 --> 00:09:12.559 to get me into theory, and it's just like, yeah, 191 00:09:12.759 --> 00:09:14.840 it was like biting foil. I hated it. 192 00:09:14.879 --> 00:09:16.799 Really, Yeah, that sounds painful. 193 00:09:17.240 --> 00:09:17.639 I wanted. 194 00:09:17.679 --> 00:09:20.360 I just had this feeling like what I'm gonna end 195 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:23.159 up doing with music is being more intuitive and more 196 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:28.440 hunting for my own particular chemistry through failure. And somehow 197 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:31.720 that felt clear even at a young age. So yeah, 198 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:35.000 I went to art school to avoid music. School didn't 199 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:36.960 really have anything to say with visual art. So I 200 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:40.240 of course formed bands in college and played around. I 201 00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:44.200 actually played at CBGB's and Hilly Crystal liked my band, 202 00:09:44.600 --> 00:09:46.960 No shit, Yeah, he told me one day, He's like, 203 00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:48.679 good job, you guys are good. I'm going to have 204 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:51.159 you back. What was the name of that band, A 205 00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:54.559 sleep Standing. We were in college. You know, it had 206 00:09:54.600 --> 00:09:55.320 to be an idea. 207 00:09:55.559 --> 00:09:57.879 Sure what style of music was that? 208 00:09:58.440 --> 00:09:59.720 I mean it was a lot of the same as 209 00:09:59.759 --> 00:10:02.960 the really Tiki God was one of our songs, which 210 00:10:03.080 --> 00:10:05.440 turned out to be a President's song later. They were 211 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:07.120 a handful there. It was kind of you know, like 212 00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:10.120 again like Sergeant Pepper is kind of a kaleidoscope of 213 00:10:10.200 --> 00:10:12.799 styles there where We had our country song and our 214 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:15.240 song that kind of sounded like the Strokes, even though 215 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:18.360 the Strokes weren't a thing. Then n RBQ. Do you 216 00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:21.919 know NRBQ, No, I don't. Their vibe was kind of 217 00:10:21.919 --> 00:10:24.600 what that a sleep standing vibe was Half of the 218 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:26.919 set I played a clavinet and half the set I 219 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:29.320 played guitar, so we mixed it up. It was fun, 220 00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:31.639 it was, and we lived together in an apartment on 221 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:34.000 campus like the Monkeys and had a great time. 222 00:10:34.440 --> 00:10:36.039 That sounds like a fucking blast man. 223 00:10:36.639 --> 00:10:40.000 It was awesome. We played CBEs twice and then we 224 00:10:40.039 --> 00:10:42.320 moved to Brooklyn to kind of think, well, let's keep 225 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:45.960 but the band didn't really have staying power. Everybody kind 226 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:47.720 of went their separate ways eventually. 227 00:10:47.720 --> 00:10:49.000 So you still talk to those guys. 228 00:10:49.799 --> 00:10:52.320 No, I ran into the drummer every once in a 229 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:55.840 while with your car. Yeah. Well no, with a little 230 00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:58.519 go kart, just gently hitting his ankles. 231 00:10:58.240 --> 00:11:00.399 Until he until its attention. 232 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:02.200 Yeah, yeah, until he's like, hey stop that. 233 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:05.120 When you put Tiki God on a president's album, did 234 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:06.759 you have to get their permission or were you the 235 00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:07.600 writer of the whole thing? 236 00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:10.360 Anyway, I was the writer of the whole thing. Anyway, Yeah, 237 00:11:10.519 --> 00:11:12.960 I just wrote that song. A lot of my songs 238 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:15.279 have before they there were a few, like on the 239 00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:19.080 President's album, that existed in other forms with other bands, 240 00:11:19.399 --> 00:11:21.480 And that first President's record is kind of culling a 241 00:11:21.519 --> 00:11:24.279 lifetime songwriting for the best nuggets. 242 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:26.639 Isn't that what all first records are pretty much? 243 00:11:26.679 --> 00:11:30.720 Although the songs Lump and Peaches and Kitty were brand. 244 00:11:30.440 --> 00:11:32.840 New that's fucking hilarious and they were. 245 00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:35.440 The singles, some of the album tracks were, you know, 246 00:11:35.799 --> 00:11:39.120 road tested with other combos until they got Dave and 247 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:41.960 Jason's hands on him and David Jason gave them the 248 00:11:42.039 --> 00:11:45.440 right flavor to make them shoot off like a rocket. 249 00:11:45.600 --> 00:11:48.039 Tell me about bull Weavil Bull Weaval. 250 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:50.120 It started out as a weird little I think I 251 00:11:50.200 --> 00:11:50.919 was stoned and. 252 00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:52.759 I made Oh it ended up as a weird. 253 00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:55.720 It started out as me. It was just like I 254 00:11:55.840 --> 00:11:57.759 was playing with the pitch control on a four track 255 00:11:57.799 --> 00:12:01.840 and I made it will boot Ball. It was just 256 00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:04.759 a fragment that had nonsense lyrics, and I just sort 257 00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:07.840 of developed it and made it into something real, you know, 258 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:09.960 just because I was like, Oh, we need another song. 259 00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:12.399 Oh here's a funky one. We didn't have a funky 260 00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:15.240 one in the set, so it became a fault. I 261 00:12:15.320 --> 00:12:17.799 love that song, yeah, And that actually was about a 262 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:20.840 member of a sleep standing who was a real not 263 00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:26.799 agoraphobic necessarily, but real into being at home playing video

games, smoking, 264 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:29.759 eating tuna out of a can, putting out the cigarettes 265 00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:33.960 in the tuna cans. And I went over to visit him. 266 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:35.879 This is long after the band had done its thing 267 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:37.559 and he moved back to Seattle. He and I knew 268 00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:39.919 each other from Seattle. We went to school in New 269 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:42.600 York together, and we'd moved back to Seattle, and I 270 00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:44.399 went to visit him and he was living in this 271 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:46.440 kind of squalor situation. And that's when I got the 272 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:48.759 idea for the song. The message to the goal, we 273 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:50.759 will get right out of your home. 274 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:55.639 You know that's hilarious. I think nowadays, like you said, 275 00:12:55.679 --> 00:12:58.360 not necessarily a gophobic, but I think nowadays we would 276 00:12:58.360 --> 00:12:59.759 call him an indoor kid. 277 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:01.600 Yeah, indoor kid. Right. 278 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:04.799 So some of your influencers are the Beatles and for 279 00:13:04.840 --> 00:13:08.600 some reason Blue Oyster Cold right. Yes, Now, I say 280 00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:12.080 for some reason because even though I'm gonna guess that 281 00:13:12.519 --> 00:13:15.879 they are the influence of a lot of bands. Nobody 282 00:13:15.879 --> 00:13:18.320 ever mentioned them, but I heard you mention them. What 283 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:20.919 about them inspired you? I mean I was listening to 284 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:22.679 those albums when I was a kid too, because that 285 00:13:22.759 --> 00:13:25.480 was my mom's favorite band. M And I don't know 286 00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:26.879 if you're friends with but I know you have a 287 00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:29.960 relationship with one of the dudes from that band, Yeah, 288 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:35.159 Albert Albert now his brother Joe, founding bass player of 289 00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:37.120 that band. He was on my show before. He's a 290 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:38.120 super cool dude. 291 00:13:38.320 --> 00:13:38.759 Nice. 292 00:13:38.919 --> 00:13:41.600 So what about Bluish or Cult inspired you? 293 00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:44.960 I don't know. I think the Beatles never really like 294 00:13:45.159 --> 00:13:49.240 delved into arena rock, that stance of like, you know, 295 00:13:49.399 --> 00:13:53.519 expansive God of Thunder kind of vibe, and it was 296 00:13:53.600 --> 00:13:58.240 sort of maybe missing in my paint box of options. Later, 297 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:00.360 the Presidents we did a song called mok Fi, which 298 00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:02.279 was kind of me trying to make a kiss song. 299 00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:06.440 But Bluisher called Blew Me Away because they were super 300 00:14:06.559 --> 00:14:09.360 weird and psychedelic. I mean, those first couple of records, 301 00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:11.559 I'm on the Lamb, but I ain't no sheep. She's 302 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:14.399 as beautiful as a foot Last Days of May. I mean, 303 00:14:14.440 --> 00:14:18.399 there's just so many weird almost like Sergeant Peppers their albums. 304 00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:21.000 They're like the Sergeant Peppers of arena rock or something. 305 00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:24.240 They just scratched that itch and I loved how weird 306 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:26.200 they were. And later when I met Albert he came 307 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:28.399 to see the Presidents in New York. He's from Canada, 308 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:31.960 from Toronto, and we just had a crazy bonding session 309 00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:33.759 and he ended up sending me a bunch of his 310 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:37.200 solo stuff with this band called the Brain Surgeons. We 311 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:39.279 stayed in touch. Back then it was pen Palace because 312 00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:42.399 it was the nineties. Sure, he wrote quite a few 313 00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:45.759 of those weird songs or co wrote, and so it 314 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:49.480 was fun to you know, fanboy out on one of 315 00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:51.360 my childhood heroes. 316 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:53.159 Have picked the brain and the guy who wrote some 317 00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:53.840 of the weird shit. 318 00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:54.480 Yeah. 319 00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:56.440 Well, and he was looking at me like, you're writing 320 00:14:56.519 --> 00:14:58.919 weird shit, and I said, no, you're writing weird shit. 321 00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:00.720 And we had a shit off. 322 00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:07.080 That sounds weird. Yeah, So at some point we're going 323 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:08.120 to jump around a little bit. 324 00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:09.919 That's fine, that's how the mind works. 325 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:10.559 Word. 326 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:15.080 So at some point you met Beck and started touring 327 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:16.679 with him. How did that come about? 328 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:18.759 Well, when I was in Boston, I played on the 329 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:20.799 street quite a bit and I became friendly with this 330 00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:22.720 girl named Mary Lou Lord. 331 00:15:22.519 --> 00:15:25.799 I'm going to interrupt you already. What So how did 332 00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:28.919 you get to Boston? So after you graduated in New York, 333 00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:30.720 you were like, Hey, fuck it, I'm going to Boston. 334 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:34.399 Well, the last semester we were at college, this visiting 335 00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:37.039 artist came. His name was Chris Janney, and he did 336 00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:41.399 large scale installations in public spaces of these like light 337 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:44.559 beams that when broken would trigger sounds on a synthesizer. 338 00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:48.519 And okay, he

turned like architectural spaces into instruments basically, 339 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:51.159 and he said at the end of the school year 340 00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:53.279 we were seniors and graduating, He's like, if anybody wants 341 00:15:53.320 --> 00:15:55.039 to come to Boston and work for me, you've got 342 00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:57.279 a job. And I had no real idea what I 343 00:15:57.360 --> 00:15:59.240 was going to do. So we went. Me and the 344 00:15:59.320 --> 00:16:02.639 drummer the band ahead in college, and then the guitar player, 345 00:16:02.679 --> 00:16:05.679 Bolt Weavil, followed, and so the three of us were 346 00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:08.360 a band called Egg in Boston. So that's how I 347 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:09.000 got to Boston. 348 00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:15.600 Okay, hey, street walkers, here's a word from our sponsors. 349 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:19.159 So I ran into previous guests of this show, Chris Gronkowski, 350 00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:24.399 the other day, and it went a little something like this, Hey, Steve, Hey, Chris, Hey, 351 00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:26.399 you know what sucks? When I get done with my 352 00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:29.799 workout at the gym. My protein shakes not cold anymore. Man, 353 00:16:29.799 --> 00:16:30.759 It's room temperature. 354 00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:34.759 Weird. I haven't run into you at the gym lately, busted. 355 00:16:35.320 --> 00:16:37.960 Okay, truth be told. I don't work out, but I 356 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:40.799 do get thirsty after a long day of podcasting. I 357 00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:43.240 just can't seem to keep my cocktails cold. 358 00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:44.639 You should use an ice shaker. 359 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:46.000 What's an ice shaker? 360 00:16:46.279 --> 00:16:50.080 The ice shaker is a double walled, vacuum insulated, stainless 361 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:53.759 steel shaker bottle with a patent twist and agitator that 362 00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:55.200 breaks up the protein powders. 363 00:16:55.639 --> 00:16:57.720 So you're saying I should switch to an ice shaker, 364 00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:00.399 Take out the agitator, stuck, can fit more in the 365 00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:02.039 cup and it'll stay cold longer. 366 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:04.000 Steve, you don't need more ice. 367 00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:07.000 Ice Sagar's third party tested and verified to keep your 368 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:08.799 drink cold for thirty plus hours. 369 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:13.039 Chris, you're a genius. I'll still remove the patented screw 370 00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:15.200 an agitator and just add more booze. 371 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:18.480 I guess technically you could, but if you actually use 372 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:20.599 the ice Shaker as a protein drink cup. The agitator 373 00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:22.920 breaks of the powder and doesn't bounce around like you're 374 00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:24.319 shaking a pink can. 375 00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:30.559 Why are

we still talking? Let's party ground style. That's right, 376 00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:34.039 street Walkers. Ice Shagar is the new sponsor at Fascination 377 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:38.359 Street Podcast. Ice Shaker is made from kitchen grade stainless steel, 378 00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:40.440 so it doesn't smell all funky after you use it 379 00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:43.279 a couple of times, like those cheap plastic ones. When 380 00:17:43.319 --> 00:17:46.079 I'm out and about doing interviews or party in gronk style, 381 00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:49.880 I use the Fascination Street Podcast Edition twenty six ounce 382 00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:52.680 Flex ice Shaker cup and it keeps my drink cold 383 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:55.519 until the sun comes up. You saw Ice Shagar on 384 00:17:55.559 --> 00:17:58.680 Shark Tank. All five Sharks made an offer with Mark 385 00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:02.200 Cuban and Alex Rodriguez closing the deal. Now. You can 386 00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:05.559 get a deal too, or your own twenty six ounce 387 00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:08.839 flex cup right now at ice shaker dot com and 388 00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:12.599 use the promo code f SP for five dollars off 389 00:18:12.599 --> 00:18:15.720 your first order. Once again, that's ice shaker dot Com 390 00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:20.720 promo code f SP as in Fascination Street Pod for 391 00:18:20.839 --> 00:18:23.799 five dollars off your first order. That's I Shaker dot 392 00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:33.519 com promo code f SP. Let's get back into it now. 393 00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:35.880 You were talking about Miss Lord. 394 00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:38.559 Oh yeah, So I'm playing on the street because I 395 00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:41.079 was discovering that it was a really good way to 396 00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:43.440 tell if a song was good or not, or was 397 00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:46.160 hooky or not. It was to play it for people 398 00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:47.519 who didn't really want to hear it. 399 00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:49.400 So like busking on the corner. 400 00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:52.160 Yep, I had a little battery powered am My friend 401 00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:54.960 Phil was there, the drummer from the college band who 402 00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:58.400 went with me to Boston. Initially he had a drum 403 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:00.440 kit that was like a suitcase for a kick drum, 404 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:02.240 and then all the drums win in the suitcase when 405 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:04.240 it was time to high tail it because we were 406 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:08.359 being showed away by the cops. So yeah, that was 407 00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:11.119 super fun. And as I was immersed in that scene 408 00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:13.079 of playing on the street, I met Mary Lou Lord, 409 00:19:13.359 --> 00:19:15.599 who was also busking. You know, she was doing it 410 00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:17.519 really for a job. I was doing it here and 411 00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:20.079 there to kind of hone my songwriting and make beer 412 00:19:20.119 --> 00:19:22.359 money and stuff like that. But she was serious about 413 00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:24.359 it to the point where she had like carpal tunnel 414 00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:27.240 and you know, had to take breaks, and sometimes during 415 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:29.319 her breaks I would take over her spot and grab 416 00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:31.799 her guitar. She'd go use the restroom because a spot 417 00:19:31.839 --> 00:19:34.720 in Harvard Square in Boston is real hard to get 418 00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:36.400 and once you get it, you don't want to leave. 419 00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:39.119 So and also you can't just leave your shit there 420 00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:41.440 and go to the bathroom like your stuff will be gone. 421 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:44.880 Yeah. Yeah, We had a tradition of watching each other's spots, 422 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:48.279 and then we formed a band called Strumpet played a 423 00:19:48.279 --> 00:19:51.000 few gigs. I played that two string guitar right there, 424 00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:55.359 pointing at listenings at home, and then flash forward to 425 00:19:55.759 --> 00:20:00.480 I'm living in Seattle in nineteen ninety three. I think 426 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:04.079 it was late ninety three. Mary Lou called me and said, hey, 427 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:06.799 I share a publisher with this guy Beck, and he's 428 00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:09.480 about to get signed and he needs band members to 429 00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:11.160 go on tour with him because he's a solo guy. 430 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:13.240 But he's going to put together a band and you 431 00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:16.759 should be in the band. And I said, okay, Mary Lou, thanks. 432 00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:19.759 You know, I don't know what to say to that. 433 00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:22.480 That's cool. Bye. It's like as if your phone rang 434 00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:24.960 today and somebody said, Hey, there's this guy named Oliver 435 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:27.640 the Octopus and he needs musicians and he's going to 436 00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:29.759 be huge, and you'd be like, I don't Oliver the Octopus. 437 00:20:29.799 --> 00:20:31.559 I don't know who that is, right, Like, you don't 438 00:20:31.559 --> 00:20:34.240 fucking know beg for shit? Like oh okay, yeah, it. 439 00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:36.519 Was just a word. It was just like Beck, what's that? 440 00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:39.000 And then she called again and said that she was 441 00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:41.759 coming to Seattle with him because he was going to 442 00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:44.319 do some residency like back and forth up and down 443 00:20:44.359 --> 00:20:47.319 the West coast, kind of stirring up interests because his 444 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:50.359 album was going to come out eventually on Geffen, so 445 00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:52.039 I could meet him. And I was like, oh, there's 446 00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:53.319 no harm

in that. I'll go down and meet him. 447 00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:55.839 And I went down to the Crocodile and met him 448 00:20:55.839 --> 00:20:58.480 and watched him perform solo with an acoustic guitar, and 449 00:20:58.519 --> 00:21:01.119 it was like the Sergeant Pepper's or Blue Aestrac thing 450 00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:03.400 movies went off in my head. I mean, I saw 451 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:06.519 what he was singing about, the way he was collaging 452 00:21:06.759 --> 00:21:11.279 cultural references and words free of like necessarily telling a 453 00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:14.559 narrative arc at all, which was my songs were really 454 00:21:14.599 --> 00:21:17.279 like narrative, and he was more abstract, and I really 455 00:21:17.319 --> 00:21:19.240 admired that, and I kind of wanted to be in 456 00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:22.519 that world. So we talked about all that after he played, 457 00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:24.200 and you know, got along really well. And then the 458 00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:26.799 next night he played the Okay Hotel and he was 459 00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:29.000 doing a thing where he's playing solo acoustic. But when 460 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:31.039 he did Loser, he had a backing track on a 461 00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:34.319 DAT tape. With digital audio tape back then was the 462 00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:37.680 most reliable, you know, way to do playback live. But 463 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:41.160 it broke during that Okay Hotel show and he was 464 00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:43.079 kind of floundering on stage a little bit, like not 465 00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:45.000 sure what to do, how to play the song, and 466 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:48.599 I got up, just uninvited, got up on stage, grabbed 467 00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:50.880 a little cassio keyboard, and he had a guitar, and 468 00:21:50.920 --> 00:21:53.160 we just started making some shit up and eventually we 469 00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:56.000 ended up stuffing as many harmonicas in our mouths as 470 00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:57.759 we could and we were wrestling on the ground and 471 00:21:57.799 --> 00:22:02.200 it was just like this absolute It was an absolute weird, 472 00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:06.400 freak out, bizarre, crazy thing. And I think he dug it. 473 00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:08.319 I dug it, and a couple of days later he 474 00:22:08.359 --> 00:22:10.200 called and said, would you like to be in my 475 00:22:10.279 --> 00:22:13.680 touring band? And it was beginning of my life as 476 00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:16.640 a real professional musician, so it was a big deal. 477 00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:18.319 How long were you on that tour? You on the 478 00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:19.519 whole first tour or. 479 00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:22.240 First two tours. First one was a band tour, and 480 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:24.319 then we did a bus and then the Presidents had 481 00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:27.319 already started at that point, and I had taken a 482 00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:29.599 hiatus from the Presidents to do those two tours, and 483 00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:32.119 our drummer Jason called one day. I was like, you 484 00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:34.119 got to come home because we're selling copies of our 485 00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:36.880 demo tape like hotcakes over the bar here where I work. 486 00:22:37.079 --> 00:22:39.960 And plus, you know, Beck was it's a lot to 487 00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:43.039 ask somebody like him, who's been solo his whole life 488 00:22:43.079 --> 00:22:46.400 and kind of in his own world, to lead a band. 489 00:22:46.599 --> 00:22:49.799 And one way that he kind of was trying to 490 00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:52.960 make a mark for himself was to deconstruct the happy, 491 00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:55.240 go lucky loser thing. He didn't want to put on 492 00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:58.279 a happy kind of showbiz show. He wanted to be 493 00:22:58.359 --> 00:23:01.200 Sonic Youth Junior basically, and that was fun for a 494 00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:03.200 little bit, but that's not really not my jam. I'm 495 00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:06.599 an entertainer and I like to engage and interact and 496 00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:08.720 really like try to elevate the crowd. And he was 497 00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:11.720 kind of trying to cut their heads off just because 498 00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:14.400 he actually wasn't really into that Loser song, and he 499 00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:16.319 was kind of, I guess, a little bummed that it 500 00:23:16.359 --> 00:23:18.920 became the song that he was known for, which was 501 00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:20.839 a lesson for me. It was like, don't release any 502 00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:23.359 songs that you don't love because they might become hits 503 00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:24.440 and then you're stuck. 504 00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:28.559 Sadly, that is more common the more people that I 505 00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:32.599 talked to, you know, the hit is it's not their favorite, 506 00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:36.240 and it's hard for me to determine sometimes whether it 507 00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:39.000 was never their favorite or if they're just fucking tired 508 00:23:39.079 --> 00:23:41.319 of it, which I mean, I guess I understand that 509 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:43.160 as well. A long time ago, I took my little 510 00:23:43.160 --> 00:23:45.799 brothers to go see Pantera and that was at the 511 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:48.000 height of what it was at the Cowboys from hell 512 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:51.519 outm or whatever. It was that song Cemetery Gates. That's them, right, 513 00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:52.200 I don't know. 514 00:23:52.279 --> 00:23:53.599 I don't know Pantera at all. 515 00:23:53.799 --> 00:23:56.160 I think that was the one. Anyway, they started to 516 00:23:56.160 --> 00:23:59.440 play that song, like we're talking like a full arena. 517 00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:02.319 There's you know, twenty seven thousand people in there, and 518 00:24:02.359 --> 00:24:04.200 they started

to play that song. I think it was 519 00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:08.200 that song, and I mean the crowd went bananas, right, 520 00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:11.240 and then about a quarter of the way into it, 521 00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:14.680 they stopped and the singer goes, I fucking hate that song, 522 00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:16.680 and then they didn't finish it. They just moved on 523 00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:19.319 to another song. Oh that's which blew me away. 524 00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:21.039 That's rude, man. 525 00:24:21.559 --> 00:24:25.200 Probably half the people in that audience were there to 526 00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:29.240 see that song. It just blew me away. So I'm 527 00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:31.880 not saying that, you know, that's even on par with 528 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:34.440 Beck at all, not like a song. I'm just saying 529 00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:37.319 that that feels like sort of a almost a through 530 00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:41.359 line of actually get really big, especially if it's really 531 00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:44.480 big based on you know, one or two really really 532 00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:47.799 big hits or singles or whatever. Yeah, obviously it stuck 533 00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:50.799 with me and it's been I don't know, twenty three 534 00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:52.000 years or something like that. 535 00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:52.400 Yeah. 536 00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:54.640 Yeah, well, you know, I think too for him in 537 00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:57.480 that song, it was the narrative around the song, you know, 538 00:24:57.559 --> 00:25:01.279 the whole like you are the slacker generation guru or whatever, 539 00:25:01.599 --> 00:25:03.920 and he was way deeper that, he had way more 540 00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:08.160 ideas than just that headline. So I think that also 541 00:25:08.359 --> 00:25:12.119 kind of screwed around with his ability to enjoy that song. 542 00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:13.440 That makes sense, but. 543 00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:15.240 You know, I took it to heart and when we 544 00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:19.279 made our debut record. I loved every single song, and 545 00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:22.160 the songs that beginning it hits I Love I Love 546 00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:25.200 Lump and Peaches and Kitty and Mock Viv and Volcano 547 00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:28.359 and all the songs that you know, kind of elevated 548 00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:30.240 above the rest, are like I love them. 549 00:25:30.440 --> 00:25:32.799 I think that's a really good lesson. If it's not 550 00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:34.279 your favorite, don't put it out. 551 00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:37.200 Yeah, it was a hard fast rule. By the time 552 00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:39.119 I got to the President's after being in a bunch 553 00:25:39.160 --> 00:25:41.720 of bands and kind of, you know, trying to wedge 554 00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:44.240 in a song that I wrote that not everybody wasn't 555 00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:47.599 quite into and convince people that it was good or whatever. 556 00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:49.880 I gave up on all that, and the presidents had 557 00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:53.079 this philosophy, which was, if all three of us look 558 00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:56.599 at the setlist and don't love every single song, let's 559 00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:58.720 get rid of the ones even one of us doesn't 560 00:25:58.839 --> 00:26:02.279 love and just trust that something better will bubble up 561 00:26:02.279 --> 00:26:05.720 in its place. We just self edited fearlessly and got 562 00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:07.680 it to the point where it all worked. 563 00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:10.720 It seems pretty forward thinking. If you ask me for 564 00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:15.079 a bunch of yeah knuckleheads, that seems really really forward thinking. 565 00:26:15.079 --> 00:26:17.119 I mean, no, if I'm not calling you a knucklehead. 566 00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:17.839 I guess I was. 567 00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:20.920 No, No, I mean, actually we weren't even young knuckleheads. 568 00:26:21.079 --> 00:26:23.440 I mean when The Presidents hit, I was thirty. 569 00:26:23.559 --> 00:26:25.759 Oh my gosh, you're a grizzled veteran by then. 570 00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:28.880 Yeah. Yeah, I mean I spent my whole twenties flailing 571 00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:31.599 around doing dumb stuff. And then by the time I 572 00:26:31.640 --> 00:26:35.039 was thirty, and it felt like this version of my 573 00:26:35.119 --> 00:26:38.160 live band set up with Jason and Dave really felt good. 574 00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:40.079 It was like, Okay, I'm going to really dig in 575 00:26:40.119 --> 00:26:42.400 here and try to make this work. We just wanted 576 00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:44.599 to have fun. We didn't want it to feel like work. 577 00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:46.400 You know, if you look down at the setlist and 578 00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:50.799 you don't love the next song, that's work. The year 579 00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:52.720 you play music, you don't work music. 580 00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:57.079 Yeah. There was a there was a movie called Doesn't 581 00:26:57.079 --> 00:26:59.440 Matter What Wizard of Us. Oh, there was also a movie. 582 00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:02.440 There was a movie. I don't remember what it was called, 583 00:27:02.440 --> 00:27:05.880 but in it, this guy is taking pictures. He's a photographer, 584 00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:09.599 and this girl says, why did you stop taking pictures 585 00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:11.680 if you love it so much? And he said, I 586 00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:13.759 started getting paid for it, and it felt like work. 587 00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:17.160 Yeah, it's tricky. Yeah, I'm kind of applied that I 588 00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:20.000 make ambient music for meditation and sort of like as 589 00:27:20.039 --> 00:27:22.640 background music for other people's creative endeavors, and I just 590 00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:24.599 give that all away for free because I didn't want 591 00:27:24.640 -->

00:27:28.279 any structure or money or expectations attach to it. And 592 00:27:28.279 --> 00:27:30.400 all this we'll get to it eventually, of course. But 593 00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:32.480 all this new music that I'm making now, I give 594 00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:34.759 it away on my website for free. It just feels 595 00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:38.240 really nice to not think about that, especially after having 596 00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:41.720 been in the gristmill of popularity in the top of 597 00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:44.599 the charts and all that stuff, and feeling how unsafe 598 00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:48.200 and unstable and sort of dependent on so many other 599 00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:52.279 people's opinions happiness can be at that level. It feels 600 00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:55.920 really nice to just in spots remove all that. 601 00:27:56.480 --> 00:27:58.720 Well, this question may be out of balance, and feel 602 00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:01.319 free to not answer it. But if you're giving all 603 00:28:01.359 --> 00:28:04.559 of your music away, how do you pay your bills? 604 00:28:05.839 --> 00:28:08.559 Well, the two projects that I'm not giving away are 605 00:28:08.599 --> 00:28:13.559 Presidents and Casper Baby Pants Music zero to five year olds. 606 00:28:13.640 --> 00:28:16.720 Those are money makers that allow me to do all 607 00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:18.240 the other stuff for fun. 608 00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:22.759 Gotcha, Well, this is going to be a very uncomfortable ask. 609 00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:29.519 Then can I play beaches? Sure, absolutely, Yeah, you're okay 610 00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:29.839 with that? 611 00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:32.480 Yeah, I mean I could play it on the instrument 612 00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:33.599 I wrote it on, if you want. 613 00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:36.160 That'd be fucking you know what? Yeah, do that? Do it? 614 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:37.880 Go ahead, let me. 615 00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:40.319 Plug in an amplifier here because it doesn't sound very 616 00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:43.119 good about it. This is a little seventy five dollars 617 00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:47.200 Kawhi guitar, a Japanese guitar that I got in Boston 618 00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:50.799 at a pawn shop on mass av and played it 619 00:28:50.839 --> 00:28:59.359 on the debut record. I can't remember it. 620 00:29:02.319 --> 00:29:06.359 Move into the country, Gonna eat a lot of peaches, 621 00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:11.200 Move into the country, Gonna eat a lot of peaches. 622 00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:17.079 Okay, and that's all you get for free. Suck at Pantera. 623 00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:21.920 That's hilarious. Oh my god, that's funny. 624 00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:26.400 That's good stuff. Yeah, I love this guitar. I'm actually 625 00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:32.559 still using this guitar on a daily basis. I actually, 626 00:29:32.599 --> 00:29:43.160 wait here, there's more weep. I don't even remember saying 627 00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:45.400 that one.

It's been a long time. We haven't known 628 00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:48.039 it a show for seven years, so I'm a little cold. 629 00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:50.519 But I did actually just play Peaches with weird Al 630 00:29:50.559 --> 00:29:53.440 Yankovic the other night here in Seattle at the More Theater. 631 00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:54.359 And it's super fun. 632 00:29:54.559 --> 00:29:56.680 The More theater is that the one where Pearl Jam 633 00:29:56.720 --> 00:29:58.519 that dude was hanging off the chandelier, and. 634 00:29:58.720 --> 00:30:02.559 I think so my landmark memory of the More is 635 00:30:02.599 --> 00:30:05.119 when there was a bill of bands. It was like 636 00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:08.920 mud Honey and Pearl Jam and Nirvana and Soundgarden and 637 00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:10.680 they sold it out, and it was the first time 638 00:30:10.720 --> 00:30:13.559 I think all those guys looked at each other and went, well, 639 00:30:13.599 --> 00:30:15.759 I think we have something going on here. I think 640 00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:18.480 we are a thing, or we have some clout, you know, 641 00:30:18.519 --> 00:30:19.279 we can sell out The. 642 00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:22.920 More kick ass. Yeah, now I'll feel free to say no. 643 00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:28.440 But right after yourself and said, I said, hey, can 644 00:30:28.599 --> 00:30:32.640 I put in that song like the studio the album version, 645 00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:33.920 or would you rather I didn't? 646 00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:36.680 Oh no, it's fine. It's fine with me, is it okay? 647 00:30:36.759 --> 00:30:38.640 Okay? I mean I just wanted to make sure that 648 00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:39.240 was cool with you. 649 00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:40.119 Yeah, it's cool with me. 650 00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:59.480 I love that song, me too. 651 00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:04.319 To the Country, Gonna eat a lot of peaches. I'm 652 00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:07.839 moving to the country. I'm gonna eat me a lot 653 00:31:07.880 --> 00:31:12.319 of peaches. I'm move into the country. I'm gonna eat 654 00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:16.200 a lot of peaches. Move into the country. 655 00:31:16.519 --> 00:31:18.880 I'm gonna eat a lot of peaches. 656 00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:22.240 Peaches come so I can. 657 00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:25.359 They weren't put there by a man in. 658 00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:27.839 A factory downside. 659 00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:34.920 And if I have my own way, the peaches every day, 660 00:31:35.720 --> 00:31:37.240 some so in bonges in. 661 00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:43.039 A shade, move into the country. I'm gonna eat a 662 00:31:43.160 --> 00:31:48.079 lot of peaches. Move into the country. Gonna eat a 663 00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:53.160 lot of peaches. Move into the country. Gonna eat a 664 00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:57.880 lot of peaches, move into the country, Gonna. 665 00:31:57.680 --> 00:31:59.240 Eat a lot of peaches. 666 00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:02.960 I took a handle that with a little so dressed, 667 00:32:03.200 --> 00:32:07.759 swished around, little pitch in my fist and dreamed about shoes. 668 00:32:08.319 --> 00:32:13.799 Woman WoT my free good down inside, make. 669 00:32:13.720 --> 00:32:17.079 A little real fall hands to hide nature's candy in 670 00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:18.880 my hand, dog can or. 671 00:32:18.839 --> 00:32:32.279 A pie man. 672 00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:42.400 Millions of peaches, peaches for me, Millions of peaches, beaches 673 00:32:42.440 --> 00:32:48.519 for free. Millions of peaches, peaches for me, Millions of 674 00:32:48.680 --> 00:32:50.400 caches beat. 675 00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:51.960 Just for free? What house? 676 00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:24.599 Millions of peaches, millions of beaches, salt train, millions of beaches, 677 00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:28.480 paches by millions of peaches? 678 00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:36.079 Is now with presidence of the United States of America. 679 00:33:36.519 --> 00:33:39.000 You use some weird instruments like just now you used 680 00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:41.200 what was I like to two string? Two string guitar, 681 00:33:41.559 --> 00:33:43.559 So you use a two string and a three sting? 682 00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:48.440 What the heck is that all about? Who even like what? 683 00:33:49.400 --> 00:33:51.839 My dad's been in bands my entire life, I've never 684 00:33:51.880 --> 00:33:54.079 heard of a two and three string guitar. What gave 685 00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:54.640 you that idea? 686 00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:55.440 Well? 687 00:33:55.559 --> 00:33:58.559 I ended up in Boston hanging out with and living 688 00:33:58.599 --> 00:34:01.759 with Mark Sandman from a band called Morphine, and he 689 00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:04.720 played a two string slide bass. It was a full 690 00:34:04.759 --> 00:34:07.240 scale bass with two strings that were raised up and 691 00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:08.920 he played it with a slide. And I was in 692 00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:10.840 his studio one day, I think it was before we 693 00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:13.880 lived together, and I'm pointing fans at home at a 694 00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:16.840 red guitar behind me with a white pickguard. He had 695 00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:19.519 this guitar set up as a two string, and I 696 00:34:19.719 --> 00:34:21.639 never played a two string. I was playing a four 697 00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:24.039 string acoustic because I ran out of money and I 698 00:34:24.039 --> 00:34:26.800 couldn't put new strings on my guitar, so as I 699 00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:28.320 broke them, I went down to a five and then 700 00:34:28.360 --> 00:34:30.760 a four. But here was a two string, and it 701 00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:33.719 just felt like I was at home. It was a 702 00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:36.000 weird feeling. It was like I can take all my 703 00:34:36.159 --> 00:34:41.440 kaleidoscopic influences the same way. Sergeant Pepper's is kaleidoscopic and 704 00:34:41.800 --> 00:34:44.360 Bleuister cult to a certain extent, and Beck was

definitely 705 00:34:44.360 --> 00:34:47.920 a kaleidoscopic influence. And I can run all these different 706 00:34:48.039 --> 00:34:50.639 sources through a two string and it sounds new, It 707 00:34:50.679 --> 00:34:53.519 sounds fresh, It sounds primitive in a way and kind 708 00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:56.599 of like personalized. So I could wear my influences on 709 00:34:56.639 --> 00:34:59.199 my sleeve and it didn't look like plagiarism. 710 00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:01.039 That makes sense. 711 00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:03.960 Yeah, and it felt really good. And I'm a minimalist, 712 00:35:04.039 --> 00:35:06.760 so two strings great, two strings to buy, two strings 713 00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:09.840 to tune is fantastic. So there's a little trick to 714 00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:11.599 you know, like when you look for a guitar, you 715 00:35:11.639 --> 00:35:13.639 got to look for a guitar with a floating bridge 716 00:35:13.960 --> 00:35:15.639 like all these have, so that you can move it 717 00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:17.960 around so you can get the intonation right. There's some 718 00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:20.000 tricks to setting up a two and three string that 719 00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:22.480 Mark and I kind of hammered out. We sat around 720 00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:25.119 one day with strings and calipers, he and I and 721 00:35:25.239 --> 00:35:27.079 kind of figured out all, right, we needed to be 722 00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:29.880 in this tone for my voice, and how thick should 723 00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:32.039 the strings be and what's the neck length? 724 00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:35.800 And oh wow, it was kind of scientific, sounds very scientific. 725 00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:38.760 So yeah, Mark really set me up, and now in 726 00:35:38.840 --> 00:35:40.920 these days, I'm back to playing that guy. Now have 727 00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:42.920 the Mark Sandma guitar set up as a six string, 728 00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:47.159 so I'm back playing all string combinations these days. 729 00:35:47.239 --> 00:35:49.840 Oh my goodness. Well look at you, bro the growth. 730 00:35:51.159 --> 00:35:55.159 So along those lines, I heard somewhere fairly recently that 731 00:35:55.400 --> 00:35:58.079 you want to make two and three string guitars for 732 00:35:58.159 --> 00:35:58.800 little kids. 733 00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:03.119 Yes, here's my real dream. Since there is a company 734 00:36:03.239 --> 00:36:08.000 called luge Loog that I highly recommend they make wonderful 735 00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:10.639 three string guitars for little kids. I have one in 736 00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:13.159 the house. Actually I love it. I play it all 737 00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:15.559 the time. But here's my pitch. What I really want 738 00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:18.920 to do is a one string guitar for infants that 739 00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:21.800 has a built in amplifier and speaker that you can 740 00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:24.519 kick into overdrive and you can just get like mud 741

00:36:24.519 --> 00:36:29.480 Honey fuzz or Hendrix level fuzz, but with one pretty 742 00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:31.480 thick string. I don't want it to be boangy. So 743 00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:33.760 the idea with the one string is it's never out 744 00:36:33.800 --> 00:36:36.239 of tune because there's never a string to tune it 745 00:36:36.280 --> 00:36:42.079 two right, So the parents have an exponentially less horrific 746 00:36:42.159 --> 00:36:45.599 experience of listening to a child bang away on an 747 00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:45.840 out of. 748 00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:48.400 Tune guitar for hours unless they're hitting it with the hammer. 749 00:36:48.880 --> 00:36:51.159 Yeah, it's true, and the kid gets to feel what 750 00:36:51.199 --> 00:36:54.159 it's like to rock out and you know, play immediately. 751 00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:56.679 It's an instrument anyone can play, and I've been trying 752 00:36:56.679 --> 00:36:59.559 to pitch lug on doing it. They have since started 753 00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:02.719 making with pickups and speakers, but they stick to their 754 00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:06.360 three string and they make six string guitars too interesting. Anyway, 755 00:37:06.519 --> 00:37:10.199 my son is a guitar builder and a designer and player, 756 00:37:10.360 --> 00:37:12.480 and maybe there's a day when he and I go 757 00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:14.920 into business together and we make these things. I don't 758 00:37:14.920 --> 00:37:19.079 want to necessarily make a company that's selling. I'd love 759 00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:21.760 to just like pitch it to and sponsor it with 760 00:37:21.960 --> 00:37:26.320 a company that's like Fender or Epiphone or somebody like that. 761 00:37:26.679 --> 00:37:29.119 I'll call Bob Gibson and see what he's saying. There, Yeah, 762 00:37:29.159 --> 00:37:31.960 I go, all right, rock on. 763 00:37:32.039 --> 00:37:33.639 I want someone else to do all the hard work. 764 00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:36.599 Well there you go. Okay, So we're going to move 765 00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:38.599 on from the presidency of the United States of America 766 00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:42.719 just because you have so many other fascinating things to 767 00:37:42.760 --> 00:37:46.159 talk about. If that's okay, sure, Oh, but first tell 768 00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:47.320 me about Cleveland Rocks. 769 00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:54.039 We were on the Rosie o'donald Show, who, by the way, 770 00:37:54.119 --> 00:37:56.440 is a really great drummer. She set up on Jason's 771 00:37:56.480 --> 00:37:59.960 kid and kicked ass. Rosie Rosi o'donald. 772 00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:02.440 Yeah, wow, Okay, she can. 773 00:38:02.840 --> 00:38:04.920 Flap the skins or whatever. The kids who call in 774 00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:05.400 it these. 775 00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:06.559 Days, I'm sure it's not that. 776 00:38:06.920 --> 00:38:12.719 It's not that the skins. So we're backstage for some reason, 777 00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:15.519 we were in a trailer outside I don't know exactly why, 778 00:38:15.559 --> 00:38:17.960 maybe she wasn't in a regular studio or something, and 779 00:38:18.039 --> 00:38:20.559 knock at the door and it's Drew Carrey and he 780 00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:22.920 was a guest on the same episode. He came in 781 00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:25.280 with a supermodel on each arm, as I remember, it 782 00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:27.239 hung out for a while and we got along and 783 00:38:27.519 --> 00:38:30.360 shot the shit and laughed, and he got in touch 784 00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:32.239 with us. A little while later. It was like, I 785 00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:35.360 want to redo the theme song for the Drew Carrey Show, 786 00:38:35.360 --> 00:38:37.239 and I wanted to be Cleveland Rocks by Ian Hunter, 787 00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:40.239 and I want you guys to record it. So we're like, yeah, sure, 788 00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:41.880 And so we went in and just did that one 789 00:38:41.920 --> 00:38:44.400 project in a couple of days. And at the very 790 00:38:44.440 --> 00:38:47.760 end of that song, when it says, ohiohio, that's Drew 791 00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:48.840 doing the ohio. 792 00:38:49.239 --> 00:38:49.719 Oh good. 793 00:38:49.880 --> 00:38:52.639 He phoned it in to the studio. So yeah, it 794 00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:55.320 was really nice and we've played that song all over 795 00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:57.000 the place. It was in our set for a while. 796 00:38:57.400 --> 00:39:00.000 We did it not too long ago, maybe two thousand 797 00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:02.800 and thirteen or fourteen. We did it at a home 798 00:39:02.840 --> 00:39:06.280 opener of Cleveland Brown's football game as a halftime act. 799 00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:08.159 Oh my gosh, how cool was that? 800 00:39:08.199 --> 00:39:10.920 And it was the only game they won that whole season, 801 00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:14.559 No kidding, it. 802 00:39:14.559 --> 00:39:16.639 Was kind of that's really cool. 803 00:39:16.840 --> 00:39:19.440 Yeah, it was a great experience, and that opened my 804 00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:24.199 eyes to licensing music for commercials and television shows and 805 00:39:24.440 --> 00:39:26.639 movies and stuff like that. And actually, because of that, 806 00:39:26.800 --> 00:39:28.760 I started doing that. And this is a segue to 807 00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:31.320 what I did after the presidents. I did that for 808 00:39:31.639 --> 00:39:35.239 a good ten or fifteen years after the President's writing 809 00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:39.199 custom songs, scoring video games. I had a huge eight 810 00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:42.800 hundred piece library of just incidental music that I licensed 811 00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:46.880 to whoever wanted it through Getty Images and Getty Music anyway. 812 00:39:46.920 --> 00:39:48.559 So yeah, I did that for a long time just 813 00:39:48.599 --> 00:39:51.920 because of that New Carrey thing. So thanks Drew, Thanks Drew, 814 00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:52.760 Thanks

Drew. 815 00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:54.599 Keep doing it. I think that's great. 816 00:39:54.880 --> 00:39:58.480 Yeah, we still get little checks from syndication. 817 00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:01.000 And all the other things that you've done. I'm sure maybe. 818 00:40:01.239 --> 00:40:04.199 Yeah, it's one of my favorite activities is opening checks. 819 00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:08.880 You're a waiter, you wait by the mailbox for Texas 820 00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:16.840 show exactly high street walkers. Here's a word from our sponsors. Now, 821 00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:19.280 I didn't know how good I had it till I 822 00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:22.440 met some other whiskeys from the city. It turns out 823 00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:25.960 a small town and an even smaller batch made me 824 00:40:26.119 --> 00:40:29.880 the most headstrong spirit. Both sides of the pekas call 825 00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:35.880 me critical batch Texas Bourbon raised by a sailor in Bulvardy, Texas. 826 00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:39.159 Bottled at one ten proof. They took me out of 827 00:40:39.159 --> 00:40:41.760 the barrel and didn't know which end to slap. So 828 00:40:41.840 --> 00:40:44.800 why don't you come taste the pure definition of bourbon, 829 00:40:45.320 --> 00:40:48.960 grain to beryl to bottle and join our little rebellion. 830 00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:51.840 You may all go to the liquor store. I'll be 831 00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:55.960 at Chaplain Distillery three oh seven nine oh Blanco Road 832 00:40:56.039 --> 00:40:59.280 in Bulverdi, Texas. Ask for c B in the tasting 833 00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:02.599 room and I'll see you soon. That was the bourbon 834 00:41:02.679 --> 00:41:07.960 talking streetwalkers. Chaplain Distillery is proudly veteran owned and operated. 835 00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:11.480 Follow them on Instagram and Facebook or go to Chaplain 836 00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:15.199 Distillery dot com and maybe I'll see you at the 837 00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:22.920 tasting room. Let's get back into it all right. What 838 00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:26.079 is a Casper baby pant? 839 00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:30.400 So when I was with Mark playing that guitar as 840 00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:34.079 a two string, we had a live band called Supergroup. 841 00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:36.639 Mark played a three string and I played a two string, 842 00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:39.119 and we had a rotating set of drummers and we 843 00:41:39.159 --> 00:41:42.039 improvised all the songs live. People could write down on 844 00:41:42.079 --> 00:41:44.800 a napkin what they wanted us to make a song 845 00:41:44.840 --> 00:41:46.480 out of and we had to do it. So it 846 00:41:46.480 --> 00:41:51.079 was super fun and weird and improvisational and experimental. And 847 00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:54.519 my stage name at that point was Casper Babypants because 848 00:41:54.679 --> 00:41:56.880 I had gone by the name Casper making these weird 849 00:41:56.880 --> 00:42:00.320 little cassettes throughout the years. And actually Bet and I 850 00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:03.400 did a split seven inch single called Casper and Mollusk. 851 00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:06.599 He was Mollusk, I was Casper, which is very rare 852 00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:10.039 and weird and hard to find. So one winter I 853 00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:12.119 didn't have a hat. It was cold. I went to 854 00:42:12.199 --> 00:42:14.519 this co op food co op. They had a bin 855 00:42:14.599 --> 00:42:17.280 of free clothing for the needy. I reached in and 856 00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:20.119 picked out this pair of hand knitted baby's pants and 857 00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:22.000 put them on my head and they were like thick 858 00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:25.079 and fuzzy, perfect hat. So the kids in my neighborhood 859 00:42:25.079 --> 00:42:27.719 started calling me baby pants, like wait, you going baby pants? 860 00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:30.039 And so I put Casper and baby pants together and 861 00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:32.679 became Casper baby Pants for this band that Mark and 862 00:42:32.719 --> 00:42:36.199 I had. And years later, when I finally landed on 863 00:42:36.280 --> 00:42:38.840 making music for zero to five year olds and their parents, 864 00:42:39.039 --> 00:42:40.920 I sat there for a minute, thinking, what do I 865 00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:42.639 want to call it? Do I want to make up 866 00:42:42.679 --> 00:42:45.239 a band? Do I want to call it just my name? 867 00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:48.320 And all of a sudden I remembered I'm already Casper 868 00:42:48.360 --> 00:42:52.320 baby Pants, so I'll just use that. So it was 869 00:42:52.360 --> 00:42:54.159 sort of like a breadcrumb to myself. 870 00:42:54.519 --> 00:42:57.559 Why did you decide that you needed to make music 871 00:42:57.599 --> 00:42:58.679 for sero to five year olds? 872 00:42:58.920 --> 00:43:01.119 You know, it's funny. I didn't decid. The entire time 873 00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:03.239 I was in the Presidents and rock bands and stuff, 874 00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:06.440 I had this nagging feeling that there was some other 875 00:43:06.920 --> 00:43:10.159 approach that I should be exploring, and it was no 876 00:43:10.280 --> 00:43:12.920 more clearer than that. It was just an impulse. There's 877 00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:16.239 something else, There's something else. There's something else on the side. 878 00:43:16.280 --> 00:43:19.039 As the Presidents did their thing, I formed other bands, 879 00:43:19.079 --> 00:43:23.480 the Giraffes, the Tycoons, the Feelings, Hijackers, all these bands 880 00:43:23.480 --> 00:43:26.960 that were completely different vibes, trying to find this other thing, 881 00:43:27.199 --> 00:43:29.000 and none of it was right. This went on for 882 00:43:29.079 --> 00:43:32.039 like twelve years, twelve years of like hunting and pecking 883 00:43:32.119 --> 00:43:34.320 outside the band, trying to figure out what this voice 884 00:43:34.360 --> 00:43:37.679 in my gut was trying to say. Eventually I

started 885 00:43:37.719 --> 00:43:40.159 making music that was kind of acoustic and quiet, and 886 00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:43.559 still didn't know what to sing necessarily or who was for. 887 00:43:43.639 --> 00:43:45.719 And then I met my second wife, Kate, and her 888 00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:48.760 artwork just completely spoke to me, and I realized I 889 00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:51.559 wanted to make music that came from the same planet 890 00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:54.440 as their artwork, which was the artwork I don't have 891 00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:56.440 one here actually, but it was the artwork for the 892 00:43:57.039 --> 00:44:00.880 Casper Baby Pants records. It's really well done right, it's funny, 893 00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:05.039 it's well crafted, it's got animals, it's you know, silly, 894 00:44:05.320 --> 00:44:06.800 and I was like, that's it, that's what I want 895 00:44:06.840 --> 00:44:09.079 to do. So I made some songs inspired by her 896 00:44:09.199 --> 00:44:11.559 art and then when I listened back, I was just 897 00:44:11.599 --> 00:44:14.360 struck with a solution. It's music for zero to five 898 00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:17.920 year olds because they are psychedelic individuals, and I want 899 00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:21.119 to give them psychedelic musical experiences like the Beatles gave 900 00:44:21.199 --> 00:44:23.440 me when I was a toddler. So that's how I 901 00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:26.960 landed on it. I didn't really decide, I just solved it. 902 00:44:28.280 --> 00:44:30.719 I solved for cast for baby pants. 903 00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:33.559 Oh there you go. I like the where you put that. 904 00:44:33.559 --> 00:44:37.599 That inspiration that you got from your wife's art reminds me. 905 00:44:38.119 --> 00:44:42.159 Have you heard of an actor named lou Diamond Phillips. 906 00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:45.719 Sure, he played Richie Valens in the movie La Bamba. 907 00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:50.079 He did and a bunch of other things. His wife, Yvonne, 908 00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:53.639 she did drawings and whatever, and maybe even paintings, but 909 00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:56.679 she did art kind of like you're talking about, and 910 00:44:57.119 --> 00:45:01.679 he was inspired by her art, and he writes books 911 00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:04.760 based on that art. Wow. I think it's called like 912 00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:07.880 the Tinderbox series or something like that. So that's what 913 00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:09.840 it reminded me of when I heard you tell that story. 914 00:45:09.880 --> 00:45:13.280 And I think that's really cool to be inspired by 915 00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:17.400 I mean anybody, but particularly your wife's art, to then 916 00:45:17.840 --> 00:45:20.280 build on that art and make your own art. Yeah, 917 00:45:20.320 --> 00:45:21.920 as a result, I think that's super dope. 918 00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:25.639 Yeah, then the whole project really revealed another purpose, which 919 00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:31.440 was

to reduce stress for families in stressful situations, because 920 00:45:31.679 --> 00:45:36.480 I took the parents' aesthetics very seriously. Also, in fact, 921 00:45:36.519 --> 00:45:38.920 my joke was I didn't make kids music. I made 922 00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:43.039 parents music. But there's no genre called parents music. I 923 00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:46.199 was trying to really really make songs that a toddler 924 00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:49.960 and a parent could genuinely enjoy together. So I was 925 00:45:50.079 --> 00:45:53.239 using like my history as a grown up musician to 926 00:45:53.559 --> 00:45:59.159 sprinkle enough harmonic complexity or rhythmic complexity or lyrical complexity 927 00:45:59.559 --> 00:46:03.320 into these very simple songs so that an older sibling 928 00:46:03.519 --> 00:46:06.280 or a parent would be entertained as well. And all 929 00:46:06.320 --> 00:46:08.360 the feedback I got is that it worked, and I 930 00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:10.960 did it, and I made nineteen records of that stuff, 931 00:46:11.000 --> 00:46:12.119 so that is. 932 00:46:12.079 --> 00:46:12.920 A lot of records. 933 00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:15.920 Yeah, I was on a volcano after all that waiting 934 00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:18.920 and then wondering, I had actually left myself with a 935 00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:21.800 ton of breadcrumbs with songs that I'd written that I 936 00:46:21.960 --> 00:46:23.599 didn't know what they were for at the time. It 937 00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:26.079 turned out they were Casper songs. So but yeah, it 938 00:46:26.119 --> 00:46:28.880 became a piece of the puzzle for families to really 939 00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:32.079 genuinely reduce stress. I used to imagine when I made 940 00:46:32.119 --> 00:46:34.159 the songs and I was listening, like is this done? 941 00:46:34.239 --> 00:46:37.400 I would put myself in a car in August at 942 00:46:37.480 --> 00:46:40.199 Yosemite National Park with a family of five and they're 943 00:46:40.239 --> 00:46:42.599 all hot and hungry and tired, and they all have 944 00:46:42.679 --> 00:46:45.840 to pee and they're all mad. Will this song help 945 00:46:46.159 --> 00:46:48.800 or will it hurt? And I inevitably ended up taking 946 00:46:48.840 --> 00:46:56.440 the mandolin out. The mandolin, the tambourine, the banjo, they 947 00:46:56.440 --> 00:46:58.320 are all like, really fun to play and put on 948 00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:00.679 those songs. But when I put myself in that car, 949 00:47:00.800 --> 00:47:03.440 I was like, that mandolin's like a buzzsaw. It's not 950 00:47:03.480 --> 00:47:06.360 going to help. It became kind of altruistic, I guess, 951 00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:09.920 or a way to participate in helping families feel good, 952 00:47:10.239 --> 00:47:13.159 which is more valuable than look at me. I'm a 953 00:47:13.159 --> 00:47:15.880 clever songwriter, so I kind of got to transcend my 954 00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:18.639 ego a bit for that project. It was nice. 955 00:47:19.039 --> 00:47:22.079 That's an interesting approach. I don't know if I've ever 956 00:47:22.119 --> 00:47:27.440 heard anybody quite attack the problem from that direction. Yeah, 957 00:47:27.480 --> 00:47:30.679 I love it, Thank you all. You're welcome. How do 958 00:47:30.760 --> 00:47:34.119 you see the world like trees and objects have secret 959 00:47:34.159 --> 00:47:36.119 lives and shit like that? How do you see the world. 960 00:47:36.280 --> 00:47:39.159 It's in a live place. Really, When I look outside 961 00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:41.000 and I see a plant or a tree or a bird, 962 00:47:41.119 --> 00:47:43.159 I think of it as the same as me. Really, 963 00:47:43.480 --> 00:47:46.159 you know, there's a perception you can sort of foster 964 00:47:46.360 --> 00:47:48.719 where there is no up and down or in and out. 965 00:47:48.840 --> 00:47:52.440 We're living in a brick of matter. Air has molecules 966 00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:54.480 in it, just like my body does. In fact, my 967 00:47:54.519 --> 00:47:58.079 body has more space between the molecules than molecules. But 968 00:47:58.679 --> 00:48:00.679 we think of it as like, cause we're tethered to 969 00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:03.920 this sphere gravitationally, that there's an up and a down 970 00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:06.800 and in and out. But there really isn't. We're really 971 00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:09.960 just in a brick of matter, and we're a different 972 00:48:10.119 --> 00:48:13.840 density of matter than a guitar or a tree. So 973 00:48:13.880 --> 00:48:17.000 I guess I feel empathetic. I always look at the world, 974 00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:19.559 and I look at anything I'm looking now, like at clouds. 975 00:48:19.559 --> 00:48:21.559 I'm like, oh, I look at that little cloud, you know, 976 00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:24.519 and I can imagine it's somehow I want to project 977 00:48:24.559 --> 00:48:28.840 an interior consciousness onto inanimate objects. I don't know why. 978 00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:30.800 It makes me laugh. I think it's funny, you know. 979 00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:33.119 I did write a song for Casper called Mister Cloud 980 00:48:33.199 --> 00:48:37.119 about a cloud. Yeah, I just see the world as alive. 981 00:48:37.559 --> 00:48:39.920 When I was a little kid, I have this very 982 00:48:39.960 --> 00:48:44.480 strong recollection. I sat down, I was looking at my clothes, 983 00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:47.400 you know, I'm like, oh, whatever, I'm over my closet 984 00:48:47.400 --> 00:48:49.039 and I'm like, oh, I've got all these shirts or whatever. 985 00:48:49.599 --> 00:48:52.079 And then i started counting out the days, like of 986 00:48:52.159 --> 00:48:54.559 the week, and I'm like, well, I have more shirts 987 00:48:54.599 --> 00:48:57.559 than I have days of the week. So that means 988 00:48:57.639 --> 00:48:59.400 that some of these shirts are not going to get 989 00:48:59.480 --> 00:49:02.880 worn every week. And that made me sad because those

990 00:49:02.920 --> 00:49:04.559 shirts were gonna feel left out. 991 00:49:05.039 --> 00:49:09.079 Yes, exactly, yeah, man, exactly. I worked in an amusement 992 00:49:09.079 --> 00:49:10.480 park and I used to feel sad for. 993 00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:13.719 The riots, really because some aligance were longer than others. 994 00:49:14.039 --> 00:49:17.000 No, because they're just stuck there, just moving people around 995 00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:20.440 all day and they can't go take a break or 996 00:49:20.480 --> 00:49:24.119 go to a movie or it's just like, yeah, they're stuck. 997 00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:27.119 I heard you say once, and this is a quote. 998 00:49:27.679 --> 00:49:30.559 Life is not something to be one it's something to 999 00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:31.239 be one with. 1000 00:49:32.199 --> 00:49:32.880 I said that. 1001 00:49:33.320 --> 00:49:35.519 You said that. You were so proud of yourself when 1002 00:49:35.559 --> 00:49:37.519 you said it too. When you said it, you were like, 1003 00:49:37.719 --> 00:49:39.800 holy shit, that I just come up with that. That's 1004 00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:40.480 pretty awesome. 1005 00:49:40.840 --> 00:49:42.920 Knife isn't something to be one, it's something to be 1006 00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:45.559 one with That sounds like a lyric from the music 1007 00:49:45.559 --> 00:49:49.800 I'm working on now. Boy. Yeah, well, I think the 1008 00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:52.599 core of that idea is attachment. I remember as a 1009 00:49:52.639 --> 00:49:57.000 little kid feeling the thrill of Christmas Day and opening 1010 00:49:57.039 --> 00:50:00.119 a present and then immediately being struck by an emptiness 1011 00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:04.239 well almost like a message from somewhere else saying you 1012 00:50:04.239 --> 00:50:08.440 can't depend on acquisition of things for happiness. I don't know. 1013 00:50:08.519 --> 00:50:12.360 It was an involuntary sort of follow up emotion to 1014 00:50:12.639 --> 00:50:16.039 the thrill of getting something for Christmas that was hollow 1015 00:50:16.159 --> 00:50:20.920 and dark and like a void. So from a really 1016 00:50:20.920 --> 00:50:23.559 early age I had this idea, this thing like, well, 1017 00:50:23.599 --> 00:50:26.000 there must be some other way to relate to the 1018 00:50:26.039 --> 00:50:29.159 world that isn't about acquiring or winning. 1019 00:50:29.559 --> 00:50:29.760 You know. 1020 00:50:29.800 --> 00:50:32.440 I grew up in a Catholic environment. I was an 1021 00:50:32.480 --> 00:50:35.159 altar boy, and I did that whole thing. It was 1022 00:50:35.400 --> 00:50:38.119 very intense. It was Roman Catholic Mass. My mom was 1023 00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:41.039 into this kind of faction that was sort of shunned, 1024 00:50:41.079 --> 00:50:43.360 I guess by the Vatican or something, and we had 1025 00:50:43.400 --> 00:50:46.360 to say do Mass in like you know, Ramada in 1026 00:50:46.599 --> 00:50:49.800 meeting rooms and weird places because we

didn't have a church, 1027 00:50:49.840 --> 00:50:52.159 and eventually they got a church, and it was supposed 1028 00:50:52.159 --> 00:50:54.039 to be the mass that was said when Jesus was 1029 00:50:54.360 --> 00:50:57.159 freshly crucified, and it was a brand new. 1030 00:50:57.119 --> 00:50:58.079 Hit for. 1031 00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:03.880 Anyway. I guess I kind of eventually figured out or 1032 00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:08.039 realized that the mythology around Catholicism didn't answer the question, 1033 00:51:08.440 --> 00:51:12.159 and things didn't answer the question. I think music answered 1034 00:51:12.159 --> 00:51:14.079 the question more for me than anything else. It made 1035 00:51:14.119 --> 00:51:17.440 me feel more like connected to other people and connected 1036 00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:20.760 to something that I couldn't articulate, you know, something vast 1037 00:51:20.840 --> 00:51:24.320 and timeless and cosmic. I guess my whole life has 1038 00:51:24.320 --> 00:51:26.840 been just like looking for ways to relate to the 1039 00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:32.360 world that don't depend on the thrill of attachment. And actually, 1040 00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:34.360 since the band broke up and I've been doing this 1041 00:51:34.400 --> 00:51:38.719 new music and artwork, I've really cultivated a sense of 1042 00:51:38.800 --> 00:51:40.320 like just doing it. 1043 00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:41.119 For the day. 1044 00:51:41.320 --> 00:51:43.360 I'm working on a song all day because it makes 1045 00:51:43.400 --> 00:51:47.679 the day interesting and fun and challenging, and it makes 1046 00:51:47.719 --> 00:51:50.440 time evaporate. I turned into what I think a dog's 1047 00:51:50.519 --> 00:51:53.800 experience is, where there's no time. It's just a series 1048 00:51:53.840 --> 00:51:56.440 of moments that are either pleasurable or not pleasurable, and 1049 00:51:56.480 --> 00:51:59.000 you just go from one to the next. So music 1050 00:51:59.039 --> 00:52:01.199 does that mostly for me. And then, you know, when 1051 00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:04.000 the band became a big deal to President's that was 1052 00:52:04.039 --> 00:52:07.039 another time that feeling reared its head, like you've just 1053 00:52:07.039 --> 00:52:09.519 been nominated for a Grammy. Oh my god, my god. 1054 00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:13.599 So what it was just like this very short little hit. 1055 00:52:13.960 --> 00:52:16.119 And I could tell that if I were to continue 1056 00:52:16.119 --> 00:52:19.039 on the trajectory or try to continue to have hits 1057 00:52:19.039 --> 00:52:21.159 and have a career in the sense of like a 1058 00:52:21.239 --> 00:52:24.360 legacy kind of thing where you just continue to chart 1059 00:52:24.400 --> 00:52:26.880 and chart and chart, I could tell that that would 1060 00:52:26.920 --> 00:52:29.519 be like chasing up phantom, you know, be like trying 1061 00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:32.000 to dance with a ghost. There's just no way I'd 1062 00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:33.599 ever feel relaxed. 1063 00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:34.159 Now. 1064 00:52:34.280 --> 00:52:37.280 Some people can't, you know. Some people are the rolling stones, 1065 00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:39.280 and they just keep going and going and going, and 1066 00:52:39.519 --> 00:52:41.199 although I don't think they've had a hit in a 1067 00:52:41.239 --> 00:52:44.840 long time, but they keep trying anyway. I think that's 1068 00:52:44.840 --> 00:52:47.480 the long version of that answer is just I've been 1069 00:52:47.639 --> 00:52:50.960 very wary of attachment and the thrill that it brings 1070 00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:52.599 in how quickly it evaporates. 1071 00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:55.639 Gotcha. I just want to give credit where credit is due. 1072 00:52:55.679 --> 00:52:58.559 You said it five years ago on a podcast called 1073 00:52:58.599 --> 00:53:02.000 Strangers and Friends Nice, and it was life is not 1074 00:53:02.119 --> 00:53:05.000 something to be one it is something to be one with. 1075 00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:07.320 And I thought that was so profound that I just 1076 00:53:07.400 --> 00:53:08.079 had to bring it up. 1077 00:53:08.119 --> 00:53:10.519 I love it, well, I appreciate that I might. I'm 1078 00:53:10.559 --> 00:53:13.039 going to jot that down as an idea for a song. 1079 00:53:13.519 --> 00:53:16.480 Do it well, it's your idea, that's true, Yes, yeah, 1080 00:53:16.559 --> 00:53:19.519 not gonna get something right. Also, I only want to 1081 00:53:19.559 --> 00:53:23.400 mention this out of its bizarreness. You were a guest 1082 00:53:23.559 --> 00:53:27.559 on a podcast and it's literally the most bizarre podcast. 1083 00:53:27.599 --> 00:53:29.480 I've ever heard in my entire life. 1084 00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:30.239 What's that? 1085 00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:34.320 It was called twenty five Minutes of Silence and this 1086 00:53:34.519 --> 00:53:38.360 was a podcast. The episode is about twenty eight minutes long, 1087 00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:42.440 and there's an intro which is, you know, hey, guys, 1088 00:53:42.519 --> 00:53:44.960 this is Chris Balou from the President's the United States 1089 00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:46.960 and we're going to sit in silence with him today. 1090 00:53:47.079 --> 00:53:49.880 And you said, Hi, it's me, blah blah blah. I'm 1091 00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:51.440 ready for this. I've been looking forward to it all 1092 00:53:51.480 --> 00:53:54.079 day or whatever. And then the people listening are going 1093 00:53:54.159 --> 00:53:56.400 to think that I'm pulling their leg. But this is 1094 00:53:56.440 --> 00:54:00.800 a real thing for twenty five minutes. You guys didn't 1095 00:54:00.880 --> 00:54:04.159 say a word. The host was reading a book, and 1096 00:54:04.280 --> 00:54:06.039 you do you remember what you were doing? 1097 00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:07.440 I don't actually what. 1098 00:54:07.679 --> 00:54:12.440 You were packaging CDs for a charity event, all right, 1099

00:54:13.119 --> 00:54:15.719 And so you hear the noise of you packaging CDs. 1100 00:54:15.800 --> 00:54:18.199 You hear him turn a page every now and then, 1101 00:54:18.320 --> 00:54:21.000 every now and then, somebody clears their throat. And then 1102 00:54:21.039 --> 00:54:24.400 at the very end, twenty five minutes later, he says, 1103 00:54:24.440 --> 00:54:26.400 thank you so much for sitting with me, Chris, do 1104 00:54:26.480 --> 00:54:28.440 you have anything to plug? And then you plugged a 1105 00:54:28.440 --> 00:54:31.000 few things and then that was it, and I was like, 1106 00:54:31.760 --> 00:54:35.159 what the fuck is this? But that was a real thing, 1107 00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:36.840 and so I just wanted to buy to know that 1108 00:54:36.840 --> 00:54:38.920 that was the thing that was out there. And there's 1109 00:54:38.960 --> 00:54:42.400 about fifty or sixty episodes of that with different guests, 1110 00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:45.360 and just wow, that was a real thing. 1111 00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:49.079 I've completely forgotten about that. So thank you for reminding me. 1112 00:54:49.119 --> 00:54:53.440 You're welcome, You're part of a very odd time in podcasting. 1113 00:54:53.480 --> 00:54:56.199 That was. Yeah, I've never heard of anything like it, 1114 00:54:56.280 --> 00:54:58.079 and it kind of blew me away when I found it. 1115 00:54:58.079 --> 00:55:00.800 It's incredible how much there is to for get. That's 1116 00:55:00.840 --> 00:55:04.039 what I've been learning about my own life, like you'll 1117 00:55:04.079 --> 00:55:05.800 remind me of something like that, Like, God, I did 1118 00:55:05.840 --> 00:55:09.840 that too, the list of like weird places I've been, 1119 00:55:10.039 --> 00:55:12.960 people I've met, things I've done. I need to really 1120 00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:15.119 make an actual list because every so often a new 1121 00:55:15.159 --> 00:55:16.320 one pops into my head and like. 1122 00:55:16.360 --> 00:55:19.960 Well, you need to write that book. Yeah, speaking of which, 1123 00:55:20.199 --> 00:55:23.480 you got some great advice from Madonna one time. What 1124 00:55:23.719 --> 00:55:24.920 was it and did it help? 1125 00:55:25.239 --> 00:55:31.559 The advice was, don't expect critical acclaim for your craft 1126 00:55:31.760 --> 00:55:34.960 because you are funny. If you're making music that is 1127 00:55:35.320 --> 00:55:41.320 perceived as positive or light or uplifting or silly in 1128 00:55:41.480 --> 00:55:44.440 some way, that the work that goes into making that 1129 00:55:44.519 --> 00:55:47.280 music is just as much work that goes into making 1130 00:55:47.320 --> 00:55:52.519 something heavy or intense, but critically, you'll never hear a 1131 00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:56.880 peep from writers or whatever. Music writers acknowledging that there's 1132 00:55:56.880 --> 00:55:59.920 a craft to music that is happy And she was, 1133 00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:02.360 that's right, and she saved me a lot of stress. 1134 00:56:02.599 --> 00:56:05.719 I guess you know. There is also that attachment to 1135 00:56:06.159 --> 00:56:09.239 critical acclaim that can also screw you up. So it's 1136 00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:11.480 not just being attached to things. You can be attached 1137 00:56:11.519 --> 00:56:13.840 to the rush of like a good review. 1138 00:56:14.960 --> 00:56:18.199 Well, in her saying that because your music is funny, 1139 00:56:18.199 --> 00:56:21.800 it won't get critical acclaim, as evidenced by the fact 1140 00:56:21.840 --> 00:56:25.320 that there is not Academy Award category for comedy films. 1141 00:56:25.760 --> 00:56:30.280 Right there, you go. Wow, I didn't realize that that's interesting. 1142 00:56:29.880 --> 00:56:31.639 Now that you think about it. I'm right. Tell me 1143 00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:33.320 about Kurt Cobain's ghost. 1144 00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:40.079 Oh man, Kirk Cobain, I don't know this is a funny. Okay, 1145 00:56:40.280 --> 00:56:42.480 here we go. I got a call from a president's 1146 00:56:42.480 --> 00:56:45.079 manager saying that he had had a call from a 1147 00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:47.880 place called the Museum of the Mysteries, and the Museum 1148 00:56:47.880 --> 00:56:50.960 of the Mysteries had had a seance the night before. 1149 00:56:51.119 --> 00:56:53.480 They claimed to have been contacted by the ghost of 1150 00:56:53.519 --> 00:56:57.719 Kirk Cobain, who sent lyrics down from somewhere with the 1151 00:56:57.760 --> 00:57:01.199 instruction that he wanted Chris Blue to sing this song. 1152 00:57:01.639 --> 00:57:03.800 And then he had a little code. It said, ask 1153 00:57:04.159 --> 00:57:08.840 Dave Groll about the odd shaped Mexican beer bottles in 1154 00:57:08.880 --> 00:57:11.760 the avocado green kitchen. That was some sort of key, 1155 00:57:12.039 --> 00:57:14.079 like if I doubted that it was true, I could 1156 00:57:14.119 --> 00:57:18.159 ask Dave Grohl to verify through that little image. So 1157 00:57:18.280 --> 00:57:21.559 I got the lyrics and they were not exactly rhyming 1158 00:57:21.679 --> 00:57:24.079 or anything. They were just kind of like blobs of lyrics. 1159 00:57:24.360 --> 00:57:27.280 And I called Chris Novacelic to ask him. I don't 1160 00:57:27.280 --> 00:57:29.000 have Dave Roll's phone number, he's too big of a 1161 00:57:29.079 --> 00:57:31.079 rock star, but I can call Chris Novselic. 1162 00:57:31.199 --> 00:57:32.480 I'll give it to you offline. 1163 00:57:32.559 --> 00:57:37.400 Go ahead, it's if I have. So I called Chris 1164 00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:39.679 and went over the whole thing with him, and you know, 1165 00:57:39.840 --> 00:57:42.559 he gave me his opinion, which was, I don't know. 1166 00:57:42.840 --> 00:57:44.599 His opinion was basically like, I'm not going to say 1167 00:57:44.679 --> 00:57:46.119 things like this aren't real, but I'm not going to 1168 00:57:46.159 --> 00:57:46.760 say it's real. 1169 00:57:47.039 -->

00:57:47.280 You know. 1170 00:57:47.360 --> 00:57:49.920 His big advice was just don't do anything that sort 1171 00:57:49.920 --> 00:57:52.519 of puts you at the center of the Nirvana thing, 1172 00:57:52.679 --> 00:57:56.519 because there's a lot of darkness in that zone. And 1173 00:57:56.559 --> 00:57:58.079 so I got off with him and I was like, 1174 00:57:58.079 --> 00:57:59.719 I don't know what to do. Well, you know, I 1175 00:58:00.239 --> 00:58:02.239 kind of I realized he said sing the song. And 1176 00:58:02.320 --> 00:58:04.760 initially I was thinking I'll record it and release it, 1177 00:58:04.760 --> 00:58:07.679 it'll be a thing. But I eventually realized none of 1178 00:58:07.840 --> 00:58:09.760 these instructions are to sing it. So I said it 1179 00:58:09.760 --> 00:58:12.320 to music. I went out in the backyard and I 1180 00:58:12.360 --> 00:58:16.199 sang it, figuring if it is from the ethereal version 1181 00:58:16.199 --> 00:58:20.079 of Kurt Cobain, he'll probably hear it. So I did 1182 00:58:20.159 --> 00:58:23.119 that and figured, all right, I'm done. And then six 1183 00:58:23.239 --> 00:58:25.519 or seven months later, I was walking in the wintertime 1184 00:58:25.800 --> 00:58:28.199 and I was looking at the you know, like muddy 1185 00:58:28.280 --> 00:58:30.519 leaves and stuff, and I was imagining bugs kind of 1186 00:58:30.519 --> 00:58:33.159 curled up in muddy leaves going to sleep like a lullaby. 1187 00:58:33.719 --> 00:58:36.159 And I wrote a song called even Bugs Are Sleeping 1188 00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:38.280 in my head, and when I got home, I said 1189 00:58:38.280 --> 00:58:41.599 it to the music that I used for the Ghost 1190 00:58:41.599 --> 00:58:45.239 of Kurt Cobain's lyrics, and it clicked. And so the 1191 00:58:45.320 --> 00:58:48.199 Casper Baby Pants song Even Bugs Are Sleeping is secretly 1192 00:58:48.320 --> 00:58:51.239 a collaboration between me and the ghost of Kurt Cobain. 1193 00:58:51.440 --> 00:58:55.639 And that's the story. Whoa and scene. 1194 00:58:56.480 --> 00:59:00.000 Wow, I'm so glad you told that story. That's fantastic. 1195 00:59:00.440 --> 00:59:02.760 Yeah, and who knows, I mean, if it was real. 1196 00:59:03.360 --> 00:59:05.280 You know, I got to sort of use an element 1197 00:59:05.360 --> 00:59:08.960 from the quote unquote collaboration in a song that but 1198 00:59:09.079 --> 00:59:11.320 you know, so I wrote the music and the melody 1199 00:59:11.400 --> 00:59:14.280 and the lyrics to even Bugs Are Sleeping. The other way, 1200 00:59:14.360 --> 00:59:17.199 the other one, the one he supposedly wrote I'll never 1201 00:59:17.320 --> 00:59:18.559 release or anything. 1202 00:59:18.320 --> 00:59:21.360 Is just sure private, but you still. 1203 00:59:21.079 --> 00:59:23.760 Have it, right, Yeah, I still have it. I recorded it, 1204 00:59:23.920 --> 00:59:24.760 but I'm not. 1205 00:59:25.039 --> 00:59:27.880 Gonna do it. Sure. Yeah, No, that's awesome. That is 1206 00:59:27.880 --> 00:59:29.880 so cool. And that's even bugs are sleeping. 1207 00:59:30.280 --> 00:59:31.440 Even bugs are sleeping. 1208 00:59:31.559 --> 00:59:34.320 Yeah, Oh my gosh, that's dope. 1209 00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:35.480 Yeah, I dig it. 1210 00:59:35.800 --> 00:59:38.360 Well I play that one. You could say, no, yeah, 1211 00:59:38.400 --> 00:59:39.559 you can play it? Is that cool? 1212 00:59:39.639 --> 00:59:39.719 No? 1213 00:59:39.880 --> 00:59:42.239 Yeah, I mean it's such a great story. I would 1214 00:59:42.239 --> 00:59:43.719 love to play it totally. 1215 00:59:44.079 --> 00:59:46.320 I love it, and I'm very proud of that recording. 1216 00:59:46.400 --> 00:59:50.360 It's one of my favorites. Even bugs are sleeping. 1217 01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:14.000 Tired bugs get in their shells. Ants find a hole 1218 01:00:14.239 --> 01:00:23.239 to sleep as well. Spiders stop spinning webs, centipedes make 1219 01:00:23.360 --> 01:00:28.719 up long beds, and even bugs are sleeping. 1220 01:00:30.239 --> 01:00:42.159 Under leaves, dozing low. Even bugs are sleeping under leaves, dozing. 1221 01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:43.280 Low. 1222 01:00:52.000 --> 01:01:00.920 Butterflies fold up tight, fireflies turn off their lights. That 1223 01:01:01.239 --> 01:01:09.320 grasshopper's got to go. Took in his friend mosquito, And 1224 01:01:09.559 --> 01:01:19.800 even bugs are sleeping under lee, dozing low. Even bugs 1225 01:01:19.920 --> 01:01:25.880 are sleeping under lee, dozing. 1226 01:01:26.760 --> 01:01:27.079 Low. 1227 01:01:35.800 --> 01:01:42.639 Water bugs move to the shore. Crawlers don't crawl round 1228 01:01:42.639 --> 01:01:50.039 no more. Lady bugs fold up their wings. Antennas droop 1229 01:01:50.599 --> 01:01:52.440 and don't feel things. 1230 01:01:53.360 --> 01:02:03.679 Even bugs are sleeping under lee Stozy low even buts 1231 01:02:03.679 --> 01:02:09.719 a sleeping underly stove sing. 1232 01:02:10.800 --> 01:02:13.039 Love love. 1233 01:02:14.639 --> 01:02:17.400 Love love. 1234 01:02:19.519 --> 01:02:26.159 Love love love, love. 1235 01:02:28.320 --> 01:02:50.159 Love love love even so sleeping even sleeping. 1236 01:03:08.679 --> 01:03:09.119 Love it. 1237 01:03:09.559 --> 01:03:10.239 Yeah, it's great. 1238 01:03:10.480 --> 01:03:12.880 What is your relationship with sir? Mix a Lot? What 1239 01:03:13.320 --> 01:03:15.239 do you know? Everybody? Is that how this works? 1240 01:03:16.480 --> 01:03:19.320 I know, it's so weird. We had a band together. 1241 01:03:19.679 --> 01:03:22.280 It was Mix and the President's. Initially we were going 1242 01:03:22.320 --> 01:03:24.320 to cover a Jimi Hendrix song for some sort of 1243 01:03:24.320 --> 01:03:27.440 compilation album. We got together for dinner and we all 1244 01:03:27.519 --> 01:03:31.039 hit it off so well, I think quickly the idea 1245 01:03:31.119 --> 01:03:33.400 shifted to let's make our own songs, and so we 1246 01:03:33.440 --> 01:03:35.960 did a studio session,

did two songs, and we loved 1247 01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:38.039 how they came out. So we just kept working and working, 1248 01:03:38.039 --> 01:03:41.000 and eventually we did a West Coast tour and that 1249 01:03:41.159 --> 01:03:42.719 was very hilarious fun. 1250 01:03:43.079 --> 01:03:44.880 What was the name of the band that you toured under? 1251 01:03:45.199 --> 01:03:48.440 Subset? We just never finished the record. The whole project 1252 01:03:48.519 --> 01:03:51.039 kind of collapsed under the weight of its own expectations. 1253 01:03:51.039 --> 01:03:54.199 You know, we got caught up in that attachment thing 1254 01:03:54.280 --> 01:03:56.679 to like success, and you know, it was interesting too, 1255 01:03:56.800 --> 01:03:59.719 trying to find a common a subset where we all 1256 01:03:59.800 --> 01:04:02.800 felt like the song was good, you know, like Mix 1257 01:04:02.880 --> 01:04:05.119 had his sort of aesthetic. I had mine, Dave and 1258 01:04:05.199 --> 01:04:08.199 Jason had their own, and finding that little patch. The 1259 01:04:08.239 --> 01:04:10.760 little patch got smaller and smaller until it really didn't 1260 01:04:10.800 --> 01:04:13.639 exist anymore. And that's when we kind of went separate ways. 1261 01:04:13.719 --> 01:04:16.519 So and that all happened while the Presidents were broken up. 1262 01:04:16.760 --> 01:04:19.239 You know, between ninety eight and two thousand and three, 1263 01:04:19.599 --> 01:04:22.400 we made a record and we had a band with 1264 01:04:22.400 --> 01:04:24.360 some Mix a lot, so we weren't sitting around. We 1265 01:04:24.440 --> 01:04:26.960 just weren't the Presidents. We were just guys making music. 1266 01:04:27.360 --> 01:04:29.920 I love that. Everybody is like, whatever happened to the Presidents? 1267 01:04:29.920 --> 01:04:32.239 And then you, I mean, you guys didn't stop. I 1268 01:04:32.320 --> 01:04:34.599 mean you've put out I don't know, thirty albums since 1269 01:04:34.639 --> 01:04:36.119 then or something crazy like that. 1270 01:04:36.239 --> 01:04:37.039 Something crazy. 1271 01:04:37.119 --> 01:04:38.599 Yeah, Yeah, that's so cool. 1272 01:04:38.840 --> 01:04:41.239 We were banned from ninety four to ninety eight, and 1273 01:04:41.280 --> 01:04:42.880 then we had a five year break during which we 1274 01:04:42.920 --> 01:04:44.920 did this other stuff. And then from two thousand and 1275 01:04:44.920 --> 01:04:48.400 three to two thousand and fifteen we were a band, 1276 01:04:48.519 --> 01:04:49.599 so we had two acts. 1277 01:04:50.000 --> 01:04:54.159 Nice, Yeah, tell me about this new music you're working on? 1278 01:04:54.199 --> 01:04:57.159 This Ethereal Meditative. 1279 01:04:56.920 --> 01:04:59.480 There's the meditation music, which is like ten to twenty 1280 01:04:59.519 --> 01:05:03.440 minute long, just cloudy things. And then there's this other 1281 01:05:03.519 --> 01:05:05.679 music I'm doing, which is way more kind of rooted 1282 01:05:05.719 --> 01:05:10.880 in psychedelia fuzzboxes lyrics very much inspired by like that 1283 01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:13.199 saying I said, where life is not somebody to be one, 1284 01:05:13.320 --> 01:05:16.119 somebody to be one with. It's kind of that attitude 1285 01:05:16.159 --> 01:05:19.440 and the lyrics enlightenment what it means to be human, 1286 01:05:19.519 --> 01:05:21.239 to have a brain, to have an ego that you 1287 01:05:21.320 --> 01:05:25.000 have to negotiate with, to feel love for all humans, 1288 01:05:25.079 --> 01:05:27.880 not just for the ones you happen to interact with. 1289 01:05:28.280 --> 01:05:32.199 All these kind of ideas about connectivity and emotions and humanness, 1290 01:05:33.280 --> 01:05:35.000 And I'm trying to take all that stuff and not 1291 01:05:35.039 --> 01:05:38.280 make it preachy or instructional. I'm trying to make it 1292 01:05:38.320 --> 01:05:41.679 more abstract, kind of impressionistic, play with words in a 1293 01:05:41.719 --> 01:05:44.480 way I've never played with them before, like the way 1294 01:05:44.519 --> 01:05:47.039 Beck did really like, you know, using words to kind 1295 01:05:47.079 --> 01:05:50.519 of abstractly paint pictures, rather than like Casper Baby Pants, 1296 01:05:50.559 --> 01:05:52.679 where I was telling a very clear narrative, or even 1297 01:05:52.719 --> 01:05:54.679 a lot of the President's songs. Actually, that's one thing 1298 01:05:54.719 --> 01:05:57.639 I love about the song Lump. It is lyrically like 1299 01:05:57.719 --> 01:06:00.760 what I'm doing now, because it's an abstraction, although it 1300 01:06:00.800 --> 01:06:03.159 really is describing a woman in a house code. I mean, 1301 01:06:03.159 --> 01:06:06.119 it's it is what it says it is. But yeah, 1302 01:06:06.159 --> 01:06:08.480 it's really fine. I've got to obviously get my elevator 1303 01:06:08.480 --> 01:06:10.920 pitch condensed because I haven't quite figured out a way 1304 01:06:10.960 --> 01:06:13.639 to talk about this stuff that's like a sexy forward 1305 01:06:14.000 --> 01:06:16.320 this is what it is thing I'm I'm still working 1306 01:06:16.360 --> 01:06:18.800 on that. My third record of this new stuff is 1307 01:06:18.840 --> 01:06:21.559 coming out a week from today, actually. 1308 01:06:21.519 --> 01:06:22.039 Oh sweet. 1309 01:06:22.199 --> 01:06:24.400 Yeah, And you can go to Chrisblue dot org to 1310 01:06:24.440 --> 01:06:28.000 have it all for free. There's meditation music for free there. 1311 01:06:28.079 --> 01:06:30.519 There's drawings to look at. There's a whole bunch of 1312 01:06:30.679 --> 01:06:33.880 archive stuff like my little Casper cassettes, you know, the 1313 01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:36.840 Dukes of Pop which is a proto President's Band. Gosh, 1314 01:06:36.920 --> 01:06:40.280 all kinds of stuff is up there for free to download. 1315 01:06:40.360 --> 01:06:42.960 So and that's it. Chrisblue dot org. 1316 01:06:43.000 --> 01:06:46.440 Dot org, B A L L E W dot

org. Yeah, 1317 01:06:46.480 --> 01:06:48.440 but I'm really excited about this new music I've got. 1318 01:06:48.519 --> 01:06:52.119 It's another eruption of a volcano of stuff. It's funny, 1319 01:06:52.159 --> 01:06:54.920 about a year and a half before this music started 1320 01:06:54.960 --> 01:06:57.440 happening for me. I had a feeling. I had this 1321 01:06:57.559 --> 01:07:00.440 like abstract vibe, like I'm going to be making some 1322 01:07:00.519 --> 01:07:02.920 new music and it's a psychedelic and it's for grown 1323 01:07:02.960 --> 01:07:05.760 ups and it's free form lyrically and it's weird. And 1324 01:07:05.800 --> 01:07:08.320 I remember telling a couple of friends like, I feel 1325 01:07:08.440 --> 01:07:10.800 something's coming, and then and then it went away and 1326 01:07:10.800 --> 01:07:13.079 I couldn't find it. And then about a year and 1327 01:07:13.079 --> 01:07:16.880 a half later, it's just like came into focus and 1328 01:07:17.199 --> 01:07:19.400 I'm looking right now in my computer. I've got three 1329 01:07:19.400 --> 01:07:22.719 albums done, a third one coming out, and eighty songs 1330 01:07:22.920 --> 01:07:27.239 in pretty much finished states ready for subsequent records. So 1331 01:07:27.480 --> 01:07:29.000 I'm going to be doing two of these a year, 1332 01:07:29.199 --> 01:07:33.079 July and January for the foreseeable future. So settle in everybody. 1333 01:07:33.599 --> 01:07:35.559 Wow. Yeah, very prolific. 1334 01:07:36.000 --> 01:07:38.239 Yeah, it's just what I do with my day. It 1335 01:07:38.440 --> 01:07:40.320 just makes my day. I kind of equate what I'm 1336 01:07:40.320 --> 01:07:42.800 doing now too. I'm a hobbyist. I'm a guy who 1337 01:07:42.840 --> 01:07:45.400 works at a regular job and on the weekends I 1338 01:07:45.519 --> 01:07:48.800 make chairs in my garage. And I'm just making chairs, 1339 01:07:49.000 --> 01:07:49.559 you know what i mean. 1340 01:07:49.599 --> 01:07:52.000 I'm just like, that's funny. I was gonna say, you're 1341 01:07:52.039 --> 01:07:53.800 like that guy who comes home from work and goes 1342 01:07:53.840 --> 01:07:55.039 to his shop and whittles. 1343 01:07:55.239 --> 01:07:55.840 Exactly. 1344 01:07:56.119 --> 01:07:57.119 I'm just you're whittling. 1345 01:07:57.199 --> 01:08:00.719 I'm musically whittling, putting it out and really attached to 1346 01:08:00.760 --> 01:08:04.760 any outcome. Just it's what makes my day feel good. 1347 01:08:05.039 --> 01:08:05.880 That's really sweet. 1348 01:08:06.199 --> 01:08:09.000 I'm also retired from performing, so I'm kind of doing 1349 01:08:09.039 --> 01:08:12.440 a experiment in sort of quieting that part of me 1350 01:08:13.039 --> 01:08:15.119 that used to be kind of hooked into that. 1351 01:08:15.599 --> 01:08:16.479 We'll see about that. 1352 01:08:17.039 --> 01:08:19.439 Yeah, you never know. I love the phrase never say never, 1353 01:08:19.560 --> 01:08:22.119 because I love it. If when the presidents

broke up 1354 01:08:22.119 --> 01:08:23.960 the first time, you told me we'd get together again 1355 01:08:24.039 --> 01:08:28.840 for another thirteen years, I'd be like, you're crazy love it. 1356 01:08:28.880 --> 01:08:30.960 Does your fleece still have dogs? 1357 01:08:33.319 --> 01:08:38.680 Yes? Absolutely, in a metaphorical sense, totally. 1358 01:08:38.279 --> 01:08:42.560 Of course, totally. Okay, Well we're going to wind up here. 1359 01:08:42.680 --> 01:08:44.159 I have taken up so much of your time, and 1360 01:08:44.279 --> 01:08:46.920 I appreciate how generous you have been with it. Chris, 1361 01:08:46.960 --> 01:08:48.680 Where can people find you on social media? 1362 01:08:49.159 --> 01:08:52.960 The best place, I guess is Instagram, just at Chris Balou. 1363 01:08:53.159 --> 01:08:55.359 That's a real good one because I put all sorts 1364 01:08:55.359 --> 01:08:57.520 of stuff that's happening up there. I'm not very good 1365 01:08:57.560 --> 01:08:59.760 with Facebook. I have it, but I don't really look 1366 01:08:59.800 --> 01:09:01.720 at it. I'll look at it twice a year, so 1367 01:09:01.800 --> 01:09:05.479 don't expect anything snappy. And then my website, of course, 1368 01:09:05.600 --> 01:09:11.239 Chrisbaluu dot org. And there's Babypants music dot Com for 1369 01:09:11.439 --> 01:09:14.479 Casper Babypants. So really it's Instagram and websites. 1370 01:09:14.920 --> 01:09:18.439 Do you say babypants music dot com. Yes, And that's 1371 01:09:18.479 --> 01:09:22.039 where we can go to buy Casper Babypants Music. 1372 01:09:22.520 --> 01:09:24.479 Not necessarily to buy. I don't sell it through there, 1373 01:09:24.520 --> 01:09:26.239 but you can go there to kind of check out 1374 01:09:26.279 --> 01:09:28.039 what's going on. You can get it in spot if 1375 01:09:28.119 --> 01:09:30.119 you can get it in all the okay, But yeah, 1376 01:09:30.119 --> 01:09:33.159 that's just where I've actually put up during the pandemic 1377 01:09:33.159 --> 01:09:36.039 when I couldn't do shows, I did single serving live 1378 01:09:36.119 --> 01:09:38.399 videos from my studio of all my songs. So there's 1379 01:09:38.399 --> 01:09:41.520 like fifty five live performances up there that parents can 1380 01:09:41.640 --> 01:09:43.960 use to kind of check out so that they can 1381 01:09:44.199 --> 01:09:46.119 see what it was like when I did play live. 1382 01:09:48.159 --> 01:09:49.680 Oh, that's cool. That's a great idea. 1383 01:09:49.760 --> 01:09:53.039 It's like I archived all the performances so that you know, 1384 01:09:53.119 --> 01:09:54.039 you can check it out. 1385 01:09:54.399 --> 01:09:57.960 Dope. Yeah, Chris, is there anything that I didn't ask 1386 01:09:58.000 --> 01:10:00.319 you or we didn't talk about that you want to 1387 01:10:00.359 --> 01:10:03.039 talk about today specifically, Did I miss anything? 1388 01:10:03.560 --> 01:10:07.319 No, I think we've covered it all pretty darn comprehensive. 1389 01:10:07.359

--> 01:10:10.359 I'm going to say, yeah. I mean there's always other stories. 1390 01:10:10.399 --> 01:10:13.600 There's you know, stories about weird Al and Little Richard 1391 01:10:13.640 --> 01:10:16.840 and the Captain from Captain and t'anil, and there's lots 1392 01:10:16.840 --> 01:10:18.840 of stories. But we'll have to do a volume two. 1393 01:10:19.119 --> 01:10:22.520 Yeah, I'll have to ask you again in a while. Chris, 1394 01:10:22.840 --> 01:10:25.119 you have been so generous with your time. I really 1395 01:10:25.159 --> 01:10:28.159 really appreciate it. I can't believe I got to speak 1396 01:10:28.159 --> 01:10:31.520 with you. I'm patting myself on the back metaphorically because 1397 01:10:31.560 --> 01:10:34.640 I didn't nerd out and just act like a little fanboy. 1398 01:10:34.760 --> 01:10:39.079 Thank you so much. You obviously, much like my entire generation, 1399 01:10:39.760 --> 01:10:42.439 your music is part of the soundtrack of my life 1400 01:10:42.439 --> 01:10:46.880 and my influential periods. Shall we say so thank you 1401 01:10:46.960 --> 01:10:48.640 for all of that you have done and all that 1402 01:10:48.680 --> 01:10:51.279 you can continue to do, And most importantly, thank you for 1403 01:10:51.319 --> 01:10:53.319 sitting down with me today and letting us get to 1404 01:10:53.319 --> 01:10:55.079 know you a little bit better on Fascination Street Man. 1405 01:10:55.079 --> 01:10:55.960 I really appreciate it. 1406 01:10:56.359 --> 01:10:59.520 Oh, absolutely, thanks for having me and I appreciate your patience. 1407 01:10:59.680 --> 01:11:01.560 Oh, by the way I'm supposed to tell you that 1408 01:11:01.720 --> 01:11:04.000 Chuck Shoot from the Chuck Shoot Podcast said to tell 1409 01:11:04.039 --> 01:11:04.800 you hello. 1410 01:11:04.920 --> 01:11:07.479 Oh okay, awesome, that's nice cool. 1411 01:11:07.880 --> 01:11:10.079 Thank you Chas. Now go and enjoy the rest of 1412 01:11:10.079 --> 01:11:11.279 your day, dude, I appreciate it. 1413 01:11:11.520 --> 01:11:15.239 All right, rock on, yeah, all right, thanks, take care. 1414 01:11:15.159 --> 01:11:25.760 All right, Thanks man, Bye bye. Opening music is the 1415 01:11:25.800 --> 01:11:29.720 song Magnolia from the two thousand and one album In Transigence, 1416 01:11:29.880 --> 01:11:35.159 use with permission from Douglas Miles Clark. Closing music is 1417 01:11:35.199 --> 01:11:39.319 from the song say My Name off the twenty twenty 1418 01:11:39.359 --> 01:11:44.800 one album Underdog Anthems, used with permission from Jack's Hollow. 1419 01:11:45.600 --> 01:11:49.479 If you like the show, tell a friend, subscribe and 1420 01:11:49.600 --> 01:11:52.800 rate and review the show on iTunes and wherever else 1421 01:11:52.880 --> 01:11:57.279 you download podcasts. Don't forget to subscribe to my YouTube channel. 1422 01:11:57.880 --> 01:12:01.119 All the episodes are available there as well. Check me 1423 01:12:01.159 --> 01:12:05.039 out on the video at Fascination Street Pod and TikTok 1424 01:12:05.479 --> 01:12:09.079 at Fascination Street Pod. And again, thanks for listening.