One afternoon in 1961, a mysterious woman in sunglasses wandered into my grandfather's jewelry shop and stole his heart. Two years later, she vanished without a trace, leaving his life and career in ruins. For years, that's all I knew about her - until a few months ago, when I decided to start asking questions.

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00:00:04this show is part of the panoply pilot project where you help Greenlight new podcast if you like it hit subscribe to vote for more episodes family ghost is brought to you by Blue Apron create delicious home cooked meals with fresh ingredients delivered right to your door get your first three meals free when you go to blueapron.com Family Ghost Family ghost is also sponsored by audible are you a person who's trying to cook more as audible likes to say let that sauce simmer while the plot thickens Audible has an unmatched selection of audiobooks original audio shows news comedy and more because you can't make more time but you can make the most of it turn your chores into something more with a free trial and audible go to audible.com pilot to start now
00:00:54I'm happy you are having present in the work no I mean in life I am happy that's my mom and me an artist mostly a photographer but also a sculptor and growing up her work was my world we called our house the homemade house because mom actually built most of our furniture we sat on this couch she made out of reclaimed wood from Shipping crates we read by light from lamp she made out of flattened soda cans and we rested are coffee mugs on tables with legs made out of my old Little League bats mom also made the coffee mugs
00:01:37but mom also made other things things that were less functional and for me at least more troubling she has this one sculpture Series where she's driven 8 inch nails through wooden structures that look a lot like a stereotypical suburban houses she makes these heavy clay bowls with huge chunks purposely blasted off during the firing process are covered in scars and Ash stains from the explosions in the Kiln our walls are lined with photographs of objects engulfed in murky black Shadows
00:02:11mom insist that this work isn't supposed to be about darkness in a moment like that picture in the other room of the birdbath or the entire universe is reflected in the water it's like that picture to me is about the entire world
00:02:31that's so funny to me to me it is a birdbath in the shape of a nuclear explosion and I have always looked at that picture as a domestic image made to look like a nuclear meltdown and I don't spend any out time analyzing the I guess you'd call it the severity of my childhood
00:03:05and that's the reason I finally got up the nerve to ask Mom about her work
00:03:09because I've always suspected that the homemade house is haunted by a ghost named Sabina
00:03:18her name is Sabina bin Saeed. She took a pill at night to go to sleep should always wear sunglasses which course made her more exotic looking good looking woman of some kind
00:03:40everybody said you know she's bad stay away from her she's bad
00:03:46she was hot and she was blond and she was French and I was listening to the radio and it was staticy but I know that what I heard was you know a fugitive from Justice
00:03:58it was an embarrassment to me
00:04:04but I don't know if it's true
00:04:14subpoena was I guess technically my step-grandmother and the reason I suspect she's lurking in the shadows of Mom's work has to do with Mom's Dad my grandfather Grampa Gilly Sabina were married very briefly in the early 1960s and that your mom tell it Sabina basically ruined his life pick him why did she pick him
00:04:44so who was Sabrina and what did she do to us
00:04:49from panoply you're listening to family ghosts I'm Sam demon and this is episode 1 the Family Jewels
00:05:03I never known much about Sabina all I have is this little collection of intrigues she was beautiful people say grandpa Gilly was madly in love with her and there was that thing with her eye she was in the French Resistance and her brother and her father were and so then the Nazis kill her brother and her father in front of her they stick a knife in her eye so she's blind in one eye that's why I should always wear sunglasses which course made her more exotic looking
00:05:31the thing is I also don't know a whole lot about Grandpa Gilley I was 27 when he died in 2009 but he had Alzheimer's for years and for most of my life he was lost in the fog of dementia
00:05:44before you got sick the main things I can remember him doing are eating baked salmon and fixing his hair with a comb he always carried in his back pocket
00:05:53but there are a few people left in the family who remember his younger days and they've got nothing but good things to say I always found him very funny very Charming I'm very fond of him great or maybe he was a really warm guy so that's a plate of salmon a pocket comb and a warm heart how does someone like that end up with Sabina the one-eyed freedom fighter
00:06:21The Story begins in 1961 in the town of Great Neck Long Island Griffin Daily is living there with his three kids my mom was 11 her older brother Charles age 14 younger sister Stacy who sex and grab his first wife Pearl Pearl is my biological grandmother my mom's mom she and Grandpa Gillie had gotten married while he was on leave from the Coast Guard during World War II
00:06:46after the wedding he was redeployed and while he was away Pro got sick she had breast cancer and was bedridden for most of Mom's childhood mom sister my Aunt Stacy has only one clear memory of girl I can remember her laying in bed and me jumping in the bed even though I wasn't supposed to and laying next to her I remember that she was really big and I was down you know I was like in a ditch and I remember liking laying there and Mom. Stacy both remember when their mother finally died after battling her disease for years Grandpa Gilly didn't want to dwell on the past we didn't know she just left one day and she never came back
00:07:40it wasn't just that they didn't get to go to their own mother's funeral when pearl left so did the father they knew shortly afterwards Grandpa Gilly announced that he'd be staying in the city most nights and Mom on Stacy and Uncle Charles found themselves in the full-time care of a babysitter and item a in the school would call
00:08:06and she say no child sick I mean we were it was just like a free-for-all there was a total free-for-all we ate anything we wanted we did anything we wanted and as for Grandpa Gilly he went wild he went wild from my memory of Grandpa Gilly obsessing about his kweku or the idea of him doing anything wild as a little hard for me to imagine but since the city is apparently where he went for adventure I decide to see if I can find any evidence of the decks place all right so I'm at 37 West 47th Street is a gold and black awning with diamond-shaped lights cut into it I'm standing outside the 47th Street Jewelry Exchange which is where it was named after me cuz I was just first born child was called Charles Jewelers Incorporated that's the voice of my Uncle Charles who himself went on to become a jeweler
00:09:06my grandfather taught Uncle Charles everything he knew about the business and Uncle Charles had to learn some of those lessons the hard way does one time they were at an antique show together looking to sell off a few pieces and graphically noticed a nice Emerald pin in Uncle Charles's collection Uncle Charles was hoping to get $4,000 for it the right Billy said give it to me I can sell it for 6 and he did and he even let Charles keep five grand from that sale my uncle was thrilled that his father had given him such a sweet deal but grab a Ghillie wasn't done with the pain as the show progressed he went to one of these his guys and he sold it to that guy for $11,000
00:09:49and then the guy water for 11 he sold to somebody else with 22,000 I remember this like it was yesterday you know so I kept the way this works you would have never gotten $6,000 for the peace didn't have the connections or anything for it you know move on
00:10:12Baby Kaely was cut in on that $11,000 deal and the $22,000 one so Uncle Charles got swindled out of his Emerald pin but he also got the message Grandpa Gilly have gotten from Pearl's death don't dwell on the past
00:10:32I walk into the 47th Street Jewelry Exchange and try to imagine Grandpa Gilley hear his hair perfectly combed reeling from the death of his wife
00:10:41exchanges nothing fancy Dusty two-story Market with dozens and dozens of cramped booths behind which are dusty cramped Merchants from all over the world East Asian South Asian Russians Orthodox Jews their language is mingle in the tight quarters filling the room with a kind of urgent hum they haggle hustle and gossip and one of the boots I spy a cheerful old man with wisps of white hair clinging to his scalp is chewing on a toothpick gazing into space on a whim I show him a picture of my grandfather I asked if he remembers Gill Smith Rod my new friend with the toothpicks remembers that Grandpa Gilley had an amazing reputation as a businessman throughout the exchange but when I ask if he remembers Sabina bin Saeed
00:11:40he grins you post a toothpick out of his mouth and he leans across the top of his display case
00:11:47Grandpa Gilly he tells me he also had a reputation for something else like girls
00:11:57many years after Sabina graphically married a woman named yaffa they were together until he died she's the person I've always thought of it as my grandmother but back in the early 60s yaffa and Grandpa Gilly were just friends she worked at the exchange of the Pearl Stringer and she remembers when Sabina appeared on the scene even in the midst of the clatter of languages in the shimmering Stones Sabina stood out just half French and half Moroccan should wild blond hair in those sunglasses she never took off yaffa knew something was up right away lots of Thrills but this is stolen she wasn't display Tilson as straight as your father lost it so quickly and my aunt stacy says yaffa's not the only one who had her suspicions about Sabina everybody said to him stay away from her she's bad
00:12:54but cramping really didn't stay away quite the opposite and he's not at the guys to show affection eventually things got serious enough to prep a Ghillie decided it was time for Sabina to meet the family
00:13:18it didn't go well it was a horrible embarrassment it was Selena Ling Ling with her terrible she took the ball and threw it down the aisle you know just so you know not wanting anybody to see that we were with her in French and blond and obviously it was an embarrassing to me
00:13:48now I've heard this bit about the bowling trip before that's one of those things that usually makes it into the anecdotal wine at dinner version of the Sabina story
00:13:57but that part at the end where mom tells me that she felt upset about the effects of Beano is having on their family that part was new
00:14:07and so was on Stacy's memory of the time Sabina took her shopping took me to FAO Schwarz and she said I could have anything I wanted and I looked around the room and I found the biggest doll that I could find the dolls like this big and I pick the doll and I brought the doll home
00:14:25I need some point not that long after I think I got the doll your mother me beheaded the whole she cut the head off and I needed it and she put in a noose around its neck and she threw it over the banister I wasn't doing it to be need you know I'm kind of worried I'm not too worried worried but when I listen to all this it just sounds like we're so totally dysfunctional what was pretty I mean think about it it's a weird situation that you were okay I think it was her way of saying let me not to me but to what was happening
00:15:22so by now it's 1963 and all of this has happened in the slightly less than two years since Pearl's death and there's more graphically has married Sabina hastily-arranged ceremony and they're living together in Manhattan will Mom on Stacy and Uncle Charles are still in Great Neck with item a babysitter on Stacy is enjoying the free for all Moms making banister decorations and Uncle Charles is spending most of his time with a secret fraternity founded with some friends at Great Neck High School it was called PSB scumbag stop shit baby I mean and then just when it seems like things can't get any more surprises them by coming home one night it was late cuz he got us out of that and
00:16:14he says tomorrow in the newspaper it's going to say some stuff
00:16:20it's going to be really upsetting and it's just not true it was the New York Post something like that 47th Street wife's jewelry smuggles jewelry and then them like snikrot I mean I don't remember the exact timeline but it's true I've seen the news articles Sabina was a jewel thief and she was no small-time crook the FBI came to the house it wasn't just the FBI that wanted to know where Sabina was according to the Winnipeg Free Press and an article literally titled Interpol chases blond Sabina posted bail bawling her arrest in New York and then somehow escaped to Toronto where she was arrested again this time while walking down the street carrying a suitcase containing $100,000 of stolen Furs and gemstones incredibly despite the fact that she'd already jumped bail once she was released by the Canadian police on
00:17:20another bill payment and probably jumped bail the second time Interpol join the search when Sabina was spotted in Switzerland but she banished again and apparently Made A Way South wear according to my Uncle Charles she began the process of Reinventing yourself
00:17:39she went to Brazil and I understand also that she opened up some kind of a nightclub over there so a few short months after losing their mother and having her replaced by a woman with wild blond hair who wears lavish Furs and throws bowling balls around and wear sunglasses all the time Mom Aunt Stacy and Uncle Charles lives are upended again after that
00:18:09because that's when the bottom fell out because she was
00:18:14smuggling jewelry and he was a jeweler people thought he was in on it was terrified of being implicated in Sabinas smuggling scheme so according to Aunt Stacy erased around the house flinging every piece of jewelry Sabina had left behind into a pillowcase they would find it on him
00:18:40you know it's a passion deal people do wild stuff
00:18:49disposing of the evidence wasn't enough the damage was done graphic Gillies reputation at The Jewelry Exchange was ruined nobody wanted to do business with him anymore he was forced into Life as a traveling salesman you would get up at 5 every morning and drive up and down the Eastern Seaboard Hawking his modest collection of Jade rubies emeralds and sapphires did all he could to distance himself from Sabina professionally
00:19:20she wasn't far from his thoughts he used to go down to the pay phone on Middle Neck Road and call her at night cuz our phone was being tapped and then he went down there to see her in South America brought me back a blue suede mini-skirt with snaps on it
00:19:449 months later
00:19:47he said she had a baby
00:19:50now when I started this Ghost Hunt I knew there were going to be things that surprised me I didn't know how isolated Pearl my mom's mother was from the rest of the family and I barely knew anything about Pearl I didn't know about Maman spacing Uncle Charles being left alone in Great Neck while Grandpa Gilly when wild I didn't know about Sabinas escape to Brazil
00:20:13but I definitely wasn't expecting to find out that I might have a mystery on tour Uncle Somewhere Out There the more I ask around though it turns out I'm the only one who's not in on the secret he had a kid over there with her I think it was supposed to be a girl and not even sure about that but I don't know if it's true apparently everyone besides me has heard the story of the mystery baby it's just that no one's ever tried to find out if she's real
00:20:44when I put all these details together they seemed like something from an old movie starring I don't know Karl Malden as my grandfather the bumbling jewelry salesman and maybe Marlena Dietrich a subpoena the Exotic Beauty into an ill-fated jewelry heist and then vanishes South of the Border with the most prized Jewel of all his heart I mean it all seems so far-fetched
00:21:15except for one part your mother me beheaded the duffel
00:21:22that doesn't seem far-fetched at all
00:21:30I don't spend any time analyzing myself and I don't spend any time analyzing the I guess you'd call it the severity of my childhood
00:21:41remember that bird bath photo I was talking about before
00:21:45you'll have to take my word for it that it looks exactly like a mushroom cloud there's something about the softness of the focus and the way Mom captures the dead grass at the bottom of the frame
00:21:57it looks like everything is coming to an end right there in our backyard
00:22:04and the more I think about it it seems like whatever is ending started with Sabina
00:22:18family ghosts will continue in a moment but first a word from our sponsor Blue Apron I'm genuinely thrilled to have blue apron as a sponsor on the show because after a long day of podcasting / ghost hunting my favorite thing to do is to go home and listen to more podcasts while I cook dinner problem is I'm not a very good cook so I end up focusing so much on how badly I messing up my dinner that I missed the story I'm trying to listen to that's why Blue Apron is awesome Blue Apron recipes are incredibly easy each meal comes with a step-by-step easy to follow a recipe card and pre-portioned ingredients and can be prepared in 40 minutes or less so now instead of wondering why the recipes I try to come up with myself and up tasting like steamed dirt all of a sudden them zesting lemons Dawson in the dash of spice which isn't actually a dash it's a perfectly measured amount of space that blue apron portioned out for me ahead of time I just like to call it a dash because it sounds more cheffy that way
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00:24:09so my collection of intrigues has grown but I still want to know more about Sabina
00:24:16one of the news clippings about her 1963 Escape puts her age at 35 which means she was 16 years younger than my grandfather could she still be alive assuming she hasn't gotten any more scrapes with knife-wielding fascist should be 89 but how am I going to track her down when all the evidence of her existence is at the bottom of a pond behind the Great Neck Public Library or is it she found out that I really wanted a pinky ring and for my 16th birthday she got me this ring Uncle Charles is telling me this on the Terrace of his apartment in Miami and it's pretty exciting for me to be here because when I was younger I wanted to grow up to be just like Uncle Charles as I mentioned earlier he followed my grandfather into the jewelry business and we'll grab the Gillies inventory was elegant Uncle Charles is taste with way more fun
00:25:14my favorite part of his collection with the series of silver rings he called Poison rings and if you give me somebody to drink you could just flip it go like that you know I can put Coke in it when I was a kid I didn't know Uncle Charles was hiding Coke in his Rings all I knew was that everything about him was awesome he always carried a leather briefcase and he liked his pizza burnt once when I was 16 he came to stay at Mom's house with a girlfriend who was a Playboy bunny or least he said she was a Playboy bunny and she told me I look good in my baseball pants
00:26:00Uncle Charles only wore loafers and he always had that pinky ring which it turns out was a gift from Sabina I love the way he would massage the ring between his thumb and forefinger whenever he told stories and he told stories all the time
00:26:17but it's been a while since I've heard one I haven't seen Uncle Charles very much in my adult life he stopped coming to visit after that time when I was 16 and that was almost 20 years ago
00:26:30the reason we stopped getting to see Uncle Charles is that in 1998 he was arrested and this is going to sound familiar it was for selling stolen jewelry
00:26:41you worked at this deal to avoid prison in exchange for a fine in 10 years of probation but it was a problem he was broke and he need a new merchandise to sell so he can get back on his feet
00:26:53so we borrowed a lot of money for my mom with assurances that he pay her back from His prophets once he was up and running again
00:27:00but that didn't happen
00:27:02soon as mom's money was in his account Uncle Charles disappeared for years mom would call him every week she leaving messages where she's simply say Charles don't do this
00:27:16Uncle Charles never called her back but I was wrong
00:27:27you know I was like living on the money and selling them
00:27:31and and I feel terrible. I really feel terrible. But I I couldn't pay it back anymore
00:27:38Uncle Charles became another way in which Sabina Hans my mom
00:27:43it's almost like when she gave him that pinky ring it was a way for her to leave a piece of yourself behind before she escaped and went ankle Charles put it on Sabina became a part of him
00:27:54it was a poison ring
00:28:02of course the pinky ring isn't the only thing Sabina Left Behind when I get back to my hotel on Stacy calls she wants to ask about my visit with Uncle Charles but I want more details about the mystery baby what I remember was he got a contact from the girl and she had black hair and black eyes and she wanted to meet him and he didn't want to so so she got his contact information somehow and called him back and two men came to the house and there was that basket that mail Basket in that little entryway
00:28:45and I guess they drop the picture their mom remembers them into
00:28:56yeah they must have put something there and then walk back to the car unless I remember ever talking to them you know it was all kind of another day no that's crazy that's like a scene from a spy movie what this whole thing is like a spy movies
00:29:22Sabina may not have been a spy but she seems to have adopted some of their tactics like sending shadowy men in suits to deliver ominous messages
00:29:31she was also apparently a master of hiding in plain sight I find a brief mention of Sabina on page 119 of the biography of a ballet dancer named Peter Hayden the book is called life on tiptoe and Hayden claims he met Sabina when he worked at a nightclub she ran in South Paulo called hullabaloo the club head Ned's was the first in Brazil to feature a blacklight subpoena appears again in the June 27th 1969 edition of a Rio de Janeiro newspaper called Journal de Brazil wear a brief item of page 12 announces that Sabina bentz I will be having a cocktail reception for the Press at Club hullabaloo at the reception she will declare her intention to file charges against the state for attempted extortion earlier that week she claims she was on her way to the bank when police officers surrounded her and forced her into a car
00:30:26they knew about her past they warned and demanded immediate payment of $5,000 or else they would turn it over to Interpol
00:30:36but Sabina refused during the officers to take her to Interpol which they did she was interrogated but ultimately released because as she gleefully reminds the reporter even if she were guilty of a crime she can't be extradited because she has a five-year-old daughter born in South Paulo
00:30:58Sabina daughter she seems to be suggesting has rendered her immune to her past
00:31:10meanwhile back in the present my girlfriend Jennifer and I drive out to Great Neck to find a pain behind the library where my grandfather through the pillowcase filled with sabina's jewels
00:31:22it's a quiet place nestled between the back of the library in a row of stately suburban homes with backyards that slope down to the banks of the water
00:31:32this is a weird place
00:31:35to bring the bag of jewels that are your only physical connection to your wife was just fled the country extremely dramatic gesture to come here
00:31:53and hurl a pillowcase full of jewelry into the middle of this Pond just trying to imagine what he would was thinking to himself after he watched it like Splash into the middle
00:32:05it's not quite the same as a pillowcase full of jewels but I pick up a large Rock and toss it into the pond
00:32:16there is something really satisfying
00:32:19about taking something heavy
00:32:23and throwing it into the middle
00:32:25of the water and watching it disappear and knowing that's probably going to stay down there forever
00:32:36so he knew that if he threw it it wasn't just that he was
00:32:41preventing other people from Ever finding it it was that he knew if he threw it in there he wasn't going to go in after it
00:32:52of course Grandpa Gili didn't do a very good job of moving on as evidenced by those late-night trips to the pay phone on Middle Neck Road not to mention the mystery daughter
00:33:03back at the office I send my mom scam copies of Peter Hayden's biography and the journal de Brazil article and two days later she calls to report that she's made some progress of her own especially since I don't know what I'm doing on the internet I mean I don't know what I'm doing I am Monica inside so I'm looking now at at what you sent me it says myah Monica been sides McGraw. El Conquistador Suites and sell Gatos Finos night I'm telling my girlfriend Jennifer that we might be on the brink of tracking down Grandpa Gillies long-lost secret daughter and I've got a whole plan I tell her I'm going to look up business records for El Conquistador Suites and so.
00:34:03espino's it appears that the company was involved in this dispute with the South Paulo sanitation department so maybe there's someone there who remembers the case
00:34:12Jennifer however has a better idea Facebook we do a search for Maya Monica Ben sides McGraw.
00:34:24A woman with black hair and black eyes Smiles at us from the computer screen she's wearing translucent lace pants
00:34:34and a strapless bikini top
00:34:37and she's holding a Corona Light on a soccer field
00:34:45syndication from her Facebook page. She is in South Paulo wait wait wait wait wait go down click on that picture amongst Myers public facing photos is a shot of her embracing an older woman with a caption Miss honey my mentor the older woman has curly blond hair and she's wearing a trench coat and in the background you can see through the windows that it's dark outside but the woman with blonde hair is wearing sunglasses
00:35:23well I'm trying to figure out my next move on Stacy decides to take matters into her own hands after I tell her about the discovery of the mysterious Maya she calls to inform me that she has sent me a Facebook friend request and that Maya has accepted oh my God I can't believe this I asked him Stacey to send Maya a message
00:36:02all right I am ill Nicki Minaj daughter
00:36:12if you
00:36:15are Beans daughter house that it works my rights back instantly
00:36:29translator on Tuesday
00:36:36family ghosts will continue in a moment but first one more word from our sponsors our show is also sponsored by audible which offers an unmatched selection of audiobooks news comedy and more yes more did you know that audible is also doing original audio shows now I highly recommend their six-part series Ponzi Supernova which is an incredibly detailed examination of the Bernie Madoff scandal with never-before-heard tape from Madoff himself as well as lots of previously undisclosed facets of the case I mentioned earlier that I like to cook while I listen to things and this story was so engrossing that I actually burned myself on a pot handle that's the thing that's amazing about audible it takes you out of whatever you're actually doing and puts you in this special transport of place you're living your life but you're lost in someone else's story it's really special even if in that particular instance it was also a little painful
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00:38:30pilot to start now
00:38:44a list of Converse All Star Converse and Alcoa Maya hi Stacy
00:39:0253 years after Sabina first jumped bail on Stacy and I are on the phone with Maya Monica been seeds make rock the half sister Stacy always suspected she had I asked Mom to join us too but she said she thought it would be too much
00:39:21I know that we're on the phone with Maya I'm realizing it's a little too much for me there's so much I want to know and I'm not even sure where to begin
00:39:33thankfully I'm Stacy is ready to Dive Right In
00:39:41Amaya electricity
00:39:45SpongeBob queen says use begrudge when she was 2 or 3 years old so she doesn't really remember much but she has one memory she thought he put on deodorant in a funny way
00:40:08she remembers him putting on deodorant and kind of waving his arms around to wait for the deodorant and dry and that she thinks he even left that you order at their house while I'm processing the image of my impeccably quaffed grandfather flailing his arms around in a jewel thieves bathroom in South Paulo Maya tells us something else
00:40:32Sabina has been dead since 1994
00:40:36a my hopes that Maya will be able to fill in the gaps between Sabinas Escape from New York in 1963 and her rebirth as an entertainment Mogul in Brazil evaporate my explains that Sabina never talked much about her life before her arrival in Sao Paulo which apparently led to some puzzling moments for Maya as a child they lived in a little apartment above the club that she owned or worked at and she remembers her mom up built a false wall in their little apartment so that every time she felt Authority had come to their apartment door she would hide behind that wall as she said the FBI and come and there was one day where Maya was a little girl playing outside downstairs and the FBI came and asked her where's your mother and she gave her mother saying that she was upstairs in the apartment
00:41:36I'm sure she didn't mean to
00:41:43it seems that just as Sabina vanished with only a pinky ring to prove she was ever here at all grab a Ghillie left Maya and Brazil to wonder why FBI agents were showing up at her apartment
00:41:55with only the lingering scent of his deodorant to remember him by
00:41:59Maya says she only spoke to him one other time when she was about 20 for 25 years olds a friend of hers was going to the US so she has her friends try to help him find you
00:42:13but when she communicated with him
00:42:16he asked that she not reach out to him that he had a family and he had a new life and she said that she cried a lot because it was very painful for her to hear that from her own father
00:42:34it was too late
00:42:36Grandpa Gilly had moved on because her mother is went to look at mother is very crazy that she has a an energy a spice to her that she imagines you probably couldn't keep up with
00:42:58so in the end it seems that Maya doesn't know much more about Sabina than we do
00:43:05my eyes only sure of one thing so Stacy she at she says she her heart is open she's so thankful for this conversation for meeting you guys she considers you guys her family now as well
00:43:29after the call I asked on Stacy if she agrees with Maya I want to know if this has changed everything for her if it means we're going to plan a visit to South Paulo to finally unite the family once and for all but that's not how I want Stacy's feeling
00:43:44I don't really need or want any kind of relationship with her I have a sister
00:43:52I love my sister I don't need another sister besides I'm stacy says she doesn't really think the stories about Maya or Sabina after all there anybody in the family is Grandpa going
00:44:09I have to admit I agree with on Stacy I don't know if Grandpa Gilley was the conman my imagines but there was a lot more to him than a broken heart plate of salmon and a pocket comb what kind of person swindell's his own son out of thousands of dollars or ponds his children off on a babysitter in the aftermath of their mothers or abandons his own daughter in Brazil telling her she's not really part of his family
00:44:39why did she do this to Gillett why did she pick him she didn't they chose each other
00:44:49the whole thing makes me think of the only really clear memory I have of Grandpa Gilly from the last time I saw him just before he died sitting around the kitchen table and he's barely clinging to reality he's wearing pink sweatpants his hair is a mess me staring at a stack of playing cards turns the cards over one at a time his hands quivering he Squints at the numbers and pictures trying desperately to understand what he's looking at Alyssa's head and he looks around the table for help yaffa Strokes his hand gently trying to reassure him on staci's head is down her hands in front of her face she's sobbing quietly
00:45:33and Mom is staring directly a grandpa Gilly and smiling that image has always haunted me knowing what I know now about Grandpa Gilley I wonder if what's behind that smile is spite maybe mom is grinning as she remembers Grandpa Gilly abandoning the family after Pearl staff and thinking to herself this is what you get maybe now that I've uncovered all these other things about him she'll finally admit to me that she blames him for plunging her world into darkness that he was the bomb in the backyard
00:46:18I don't know if you remember this book we were sitting this is after he got sick and we were sitting at his table
00:46:31mom sees it differently do you have that do you remember what you were feeling I got it
00:46:39it's like I'm having a conversation with him and he and I at that moment
00:46:45are meeting at some unspoken conceptual place where I know exactly what he's doing
00:46:53and so is it sad that he can't verbalize her that yes
00:47:00is it so satisfying that I'm connecting with him at that moment yes so all I can control at that moment is it on connecting with him and that's why I'm smiling
00:47:13Sabina gave Stacy a doll and Charles a ring
00:47:18maybe Sabina whose own Vision was so brutally attacked gave Mom The Gift of Sight the ability to look at a bird bath or a disheveled old man losing his mind in a deck of cards and see something else
00:47:33imaginary world because I'm looking at is not interested to me that's what people can see but they can't see what I can see which is beyond that the lighter the death of the future in the past and legendary and the ability to make that happen is what I find magical
00:48:02my whole life I wanted to our homemade house full of these structures and objects that look like they're being attacked wondering why my mom is putting their destruction on display
00:48:16now I have my answer for her it isn't destruction magic I'm the one who sees it the other way
00:48:26I'm the one who can't move on
00:48:55family ghost is hosted and produced by me sanding with Vera Lynn Williams our music is by Luis Guerra and our show art is bijective with logo design by Dan Blondell thanks to me LaBelle and hepperman Laura Maher Andy Bowers & Lulu Miller for their editorial insights as well as my fellow producers in the family special thanks to Jason Deli on Kristen meinzer odelia Ruben Andrea celenza while they say Almeda Maya Goldberg Safir Emily Kennedy Claire Woodcock Zoe Sullivan Renee Shield gym rosenheim Allen Smith and Marshall Creek and to Jennifer Trowbridge without whom none of this would have been possible lastly and most of all thank you to my wild and wonderful family I'm grateful for you everyday family ghost is part of the panoply pilot project and we really like to make more episodes future installments of family ghosts will tell the stories of ghosts from other families not just mine if we get picked up you'll hear
00:49:54new story like this one on every episode so if you enjoyed the show please go to iTunes subscribe to the feed and leave us a review and tell anyone you think would like this thing to do the same thank you so much for listening I'm sending them and I'll hopefully see you next time on family ghosts where every house is haunted
00:50:31this show is part of the panoply pilot project ever wonder how a podcast gets Greenland now you get to be part of the process help us decide which Pilots will become series cast your vote by subscribing at itunes.com panoply Pilots or you can vote at panoply. FM panoply Pilots

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