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The latest news around the league, including the Jimmy Butler injury, the latest on Kawhi, tanking prevention initiatives, and the possibility of a play-in tournament to the playoffs.
Then, we rank the best young cores in the NBA.
With host Nate Duncan (@NateDuncanNBA) and Danny Leroux (@DannyLeroux).  And if you like this pod, please donate to support Nate and Danny at Patreon.com/DuncanLeroux.  Merchandise available at NateDuncanNBA.com.
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00:00:00what wine to a Wednesday night edition of the show Gallatin News to catch up with ear and then we're going to hit something that was a good question on the little impromptu solo Twitter be a show that I did last night but which teams have the best young Kors going for it so of course we'll parts that Dad into great detail including arguing over what exactly are young core even means here but let's start Danny Bill Murphy and I discussed this to some degree of disgusted other forms but anything you wanted to add on the sad news of Jimmy Butler undergoing surgery on his right meniscus over last weekend going to get a much better sense of what this means for the Timberwolves as a team have a bunch of games against good teams in a bunch of games against Bad teams into the bad ones they should be able to win either way but what will decide on the road in the Eastern Conference it looks like
00:01:00teams in the 9 and 10 spots right now that's actually technically the nuggets and and the Jazz but all the teams that Ranger pushing a stronger race to get in I still think they're going to make it at this moment that's how I'm feeling about it but it also I think the biggest impact that we're going to see if they still make it in come back and be ready for a theoretical first-round series cuz if they are the seven or the anybody else with Jimmy Butler that could be in those spots 538 which assume that the Wolves will play as they have with Jimmy Butler all-season assume that there to finish it with a 48 and 34 record the Wolves currently 38 and 26 10 teams of course are in the race and with all those teams playing so well and with all the teams out of the playoffs really in tank mode now and both conferences you to imagine that these teams at the bottom of
00:02:00continue to play well as you mention they're pushing them so the Jazz and Nuggets are currently projected to be out of the playoffs as of now but to still get to 44 wins so the Wolves already have 38 it's difficult to imagine that mean they've got 18 games lost right now as long as they go better than 6 and 12 over there last 18 years I think they'll be hard to imagine that 45 Windsor won't get you in some possibility that Butler could return it as well before then it and I talked a little bit about how or at least I talked at him he didn't respond to it cuz he was doing more of the X's and O's. What what it's going to look like without Butler but the long-term impact for Butler return 4 to 6 weeks a very short timeline of course it all the things are being said about how this is a minor repair it's a minor surgery it's not a full repair there's not a large amount of the meniscus being removed etc etc race 28 right now Hits free agency is 29 next offseason but you always just
00:03:00about guys coming back so quickly it from these meniscus surgeries and it seems like more times than not there are complications that cause a put that there if you were there haven't been right like Kevin Love last year Derrick Rose in 2015 know those are ones where the guy's real to come back and look like themselves Fremont in the playoffs but they're just so many times for the guys either weren't the same or push back it and were quite the guy you weren't the same going forward ever or weren't quite ready to play that is certainly the more important long-term just because I think both sides would help that this can be a long-term relationship and you want to make sure the butler is the best that he can be moving forward Minnesota beat the Kings they were a God in the single digits in the 4th quarter but they ended up winning by that was 18 quickly because that changed it from being a twins that they needed to sex you know that that is that is a good one
00:04:00Golden State at Washington at San Antonio Houston game with the Clippers and that they do not disturb looks different at that point then it does right now but you know it's for certain teams it's like out it can feel like a tailspin especially if it takes place over two weeks or so so I still expect them to be in but that structure and because we know they're going to be within all of those games without Jimmy Butler that will be that will be harder but but this is absolutely a possibility I haven't gone through everybody else but it's going to be a challenge also they have enough shot creation on this team that if Butler comes back to the playoffs and he's not a hundred percent it's possible for him to just kind of focus on defense and not be as big a part of
00:05:00Mission and you still got to you you still got Wiggins you still got down and you still got Crawford etc etc so I got Shabazz Muhammad just just getting it looks like it's not going to get bought out as far as we know he wanted to buy all you wanted to trade wasn't getting it he's got a player option it for next year see how much of that he's willing to give back but if he's not going to play it all you would imagine they could do better just to trying to get some other guys in their system who could be part of their future cuz I really don't need the shock reason that he brings and left like 3 more guys it go down out of Colorado a c I got it in that spot so Billy said Townsend and Taj Gibson altogether they don't really have a clean option at the three that's just how this team is structure because those guys are hard to get needed use the remaining assets to do it the best option is part of me thinks that it might be just because there isn't really anybody else or three weekends ago
00:06:00take that the best threat now they still haven't to my knowledge got any lines with t get and Jones the other they could do that a little bit with some backup units you would think but yeah I don't really know who else it it's supposed to be at this point outside be like that unless it's Crawford and Crawford was likely going to be closing some games you would imagine but I think you don't want him starting just too I mean b Lisa is still probably better than Crawford is at least as little bit more size any thoughts on that as I started transition to some sad news out of Aspen Colorado wear a long time NBA agent Dan Fegan was killed it in a car crash he's had a ton of clients it is really really one of the most powerful agents of the last 20 years to Marcus cousins John Wall Ricky Rubio Chandler Parson Dwight Howard it at one point DeAndre Jordan at one point and fig and certainly has a complicated Legacy in NBA star goes with some of the things that his clients went through such as Dwight
00:07:00getting out of Orlando and DeAndre Jordan turning back from the Mavericks Parsons the guy whose contract situations of had a ton of drama as well and then he had his own issues with a company that bought his practice and then allege that he was not performing it to that agreement but certainly is a guy who well known as an extremely tough negotiator there was an outpouring of support from his former clients at and even his competitors and League Executives of sadness at his passing an absolute force in the league negotiated some of the significant contracts in the in this recent or I mean especially since you and I have been covering the league and another part of this is just sometimes the roll is very very big news other times it's a lot behind the scenes and so he's somebody who has connections with really anybody that you that you know in the general managers and writers alike in so it's a shame
00:08:00Missy see him gone and to have it at his influence gone forever from the lake lot of people in the league if he wasn't the number one guy you didn't want to cross from you in a negotiation he was right up there and and usually that is a good thing for your client in San Antonio Mike Wright and and woods reporting that Kawhi Leonard has returned to the Spurs facility had been working out in New York and has hopes of return to the lineup sometime in March I'm not sure how to reconcile this to its own Popovich and statements that he doesn't expect him to return this year maybe that simply lowering expectations maybe that was supposed to be a kick in the pants to Leonard it seems like if so that that is work there though who knows whether this is a change from what Leonard previous plans were there is no indication from Kauai is Camp that he wasn't trying to working to get back by any means but working to get back in and that he will return to me it's all it's been such an Interactive
00:08:59injury for him with this quad tendon that if he's not feeling right you have to imagine he's not necessarily going to try and push through it it when he doesn't feel comfortable and of course I don't blame him for that in the I am now officially in wait-and-see mode with all this kind of stuff course we we absolutely could Cannon must report it because it's important for us but form for my own expectations when I see him on the court for a game I will be thrilled and relieved that he is back and I will not deal with the ups and downs because I'm just I'm just at this point like with the way that it's gone I'm just I don't know I don't think I'm in the right place for it and that way so I want to see him back want to see him back as soon as his res responsible for him but you know if it if it for whatever reason it's not this year than it's not this year reported that the NBA for the first time is seriously considering some kind of a play in tournament among certain lower seeds I think it would the way he had it was the most commonly concede version was seed 7 through 10 it would be in a play in term
00:09:59with some pretty big advantages for the 7th and 8th seed to get in but 9 and 10 would have a chance it to get into the playoffs what are your thoughts on that beat as a sort of big issues that you enjoy thinking about concern for me is timing I mean no matter how you want to do that if you wanted to know if it's going to be multiple teams then it's going to take a little bit of time I'm sure certain points rest is good but you have to worry about the rest vs. rust element of it but the biggest thing for me is it just it devalues the regular season two of the best teams don't always make sure I'm happy that the NBA is reportedly considering changes I think that's a healthy league is always considering what other ideas can can make them better and considering the better ones were stringently than the other ones so that part of it I do really like but for me ideas more like having the top seeds be able to choose their opponents which is a material advantage for being at the top and just has greater benefit
00:10:59encourages the right things and doesn't create all the other logistical stuff I think that is is more in line consider whatever they want to do by all means and I don't have we can figure out the authority elements of it I don't have that much opposition this I think my position is more making it a tournament rather than the kind of the equivalent of a playing game that's what I think and the exact details elude mean I'm sure that they're not really nailed down there yet couple reasons why I like it and you remember how crappy and anti-climactic the last couple days of the Season were last year when some of the teams that were playing like Miami for instance like with the Bulls trying to get in there just playing against taking Brooklyn in the Bulls won by like 40 points against I think when you compare the 8 the last couple of years other than the race to the bottom for lottery seeing positions I should be more interesting than the race for the playoffs in these last couple of games and oddly enough I could just note it from our numbers
00:11:59usually we really lock in on all of those games don't last 3-4 days of season and those are some of our lowest rated episodes of the Year talking about those games which is pretty remarkable it so it doesn't seem like that much interested is there right now in the chase for the seven and eight seeds and this could change that there's also some hope that tanking would be curved it to some degree just buy the potential now that you're moving the possibility of at least getting into this tournament making it to the 10th seed and so that'll take a few more tankers out especially when you consider to that with the lottery changed it coming up that kind of Middle Ground where you could be the tent scene in a conference might actually matter in terms like you could get into Lottery position so they don't want it I think the tanking inflection point is going to be lowered now to know the 5 through 10 range as opposed to being one of the worst teams in the league I think it's a good idea I'm glad that it's being discussed I mean change for the sake of change is dumb like the movie
00:12:59back into just adding more Randomness to a kicker skill for no reason in the in the NFL is one of the dumbest rule changes I've ever heard of but this doesn't fall into that category change4change steak is not great but I think this to me I would be more interested personally in the last week before the playoffs if this tournament we're going on then if it were just the end of the regular season and also if they wanted to cut off a little bit of the regular season as well that wouldn't be the end of the world to me an Ardent supporter of that for a long time I think they should they should reach that in other ways it's funny how you get the senator of last days of the season in the last few years was that race for the San Antonio game which had these massive ramifications of the game doesn't happen to so it goes both ways and I want to be why would why wouldn't that game happen that was a game to see like who is going to August New Orleans again
00:13:59but but there's also there's also enough Advance being 7 and 8 in this that you're going to be trying really hard cuz I think what it is is it's like 7 like I thought the formula was like seven and eight play the winner of that one is in and then 9 and 10 play the winner of that plays the loser of seven and eight so you still have a big-time advantage and you're going to play at home in that game against the winter in 9 and 10 so there's still a pretty big Advantage there the randomness of of one game of courses is is different it's fine and I think if they could combine it with the other stuff like choosing your phone cuz it could lead to better teams being in and also the other potential thing here is it could impact the trade deadline in the 9 and 10 spots in the west it's always seems we just talk about that with Minnesota
00:14:59that type of thing a little bit worse could shipped it so I think this is kind of a strange apportioning of talent we're just so happened that like the buyers they would probably be big tires in this hypothetical either way more buyers in theory by doing more things a chance of making the playoffs or at least a pseudo class also tangentially related to this Adam Silver in the wake of Mark Cuban $600,000 fine for leasing a memo basically saying yeah okay you know what like if you want to over the course of many years try to rebuild your team that's all the gym if that's all okay but if we have any indication that you're actually trying to lose gains thinking maybe even if there's a suggestion at in Tim McMahon and Brian windhorst heat piece that some teams might even use analytics to give coaches an indication of which Labs would be really bad
00:15:59that if there's any indication like that of like real specifically trying to lose games in the moment that the league will come down to the heart as possible turns ironic I thought that silver made the point about oh it's so it's legitimate to rebuild when I buy a lot of accounts he was influential in getting Sam hinkie run out of town and and I voice my feeling is always been I find it much less important to do what the Sixers did Dan just the all were going to shut down like the good players who are on our team now and not play them what the Bulls are doing is Robin Lopez and Justin Hobbs completely ridiculous and if you are doing stop your once you already have your team to make your team worse than trying to lose games that to me is much more important than all right you know what we're going to try and cycle through and find some young players and take on bad money into it in more of a book but you try to win games with the person all that we have on the roster as best we can so it is I kind of agree with what silver is saying here but it's also ironic that the one person ever really face any
00:16:59I would say discipline but negative consequences with the legal someone involved with was in fact the Sixers who really there is no allegation at all that they were intentionally trying to lose games down the end of the season they just were bad in designer teen that way it's also kind of frustrating in the sense that it doesn't affect the schedule at this point I mean schedule is incredibly complicated and then we need all the constraints of the buildings everything like that but understanding the way that the league is right now and there are certain examples of this that are coming up Saturday of the ginger disadvantage based on how the citizen if it's possible I think one of these design constraints on the computer however they be games that you have in the last month or so of the season and trying to balance that part of it out because it can be seeing how close these playoff races are going to be billed for seating and also just to make it in
00:17:59in this case some quick injury news here before we talked about the young course the first is from a new sponsor Lending Club. This is a service that I wish it had been around when I was younger they give you access to low rates on loans up to $40,000 for almost any purpose whether it's taking control of your dad making Home Improvements unexpected repairs medical expenses for me when I was in my twenties it for various reasons why there was a car repairs at one point as medical expenses of 1 points does credit card debt at another point in part because of those first two things I went to my bank and I looked into getting a personal loan to consolidate my credit card debt which of course was an astronomical interest rate and the process was just sit and putter Panda but I couldn't get the loan didn't like the interest rate Lending Club is much easier than going to a bank and they are lower rates than I interest credit cards with what you do is you go to lendingclub.com enter the amount of money you need and you can see if you're approved it in just minutes and their number different offers and payment plans over
00:18:59different amounts of time and the money can be 8 in your account it just days later to get your loan through Lending Club or just to check it out this isn't going to affect your credit at all by the way go to lendingclub.com / cap space to check your rate for free once again it won't impact your credit score that is lendingclub.com cap space Owens Made by web Bank member FDIC Equal Housing lender that's lendingclub.com gets me so know that you came from a while I was doing that read I got a call on my cell phone is this happened to you where you get a call from a number that is like very close to your phone number and like it is late at first it cause you to pick up was like oh wow this must be like something local it's like one number off for my number and of course it was just some spam call yes I know I have it sent it just a funny tactacam like this person was
00:19:59phone area code is cuz it was some from some random place across the country that you didn't know if you like okay but now it's it can it can go over but that's exactly why they wanted that technology because I think the ones that I I'm interested in I guess first is is the clippers because the Clippers are you competing in this already has has a hand injuries missed the last couple games including their win in Denver that we talked about last night is going to be out for a while and their concerns that this will require offseason surgery with the same groin injury into the deadline in the first place Rivers comments were not encouraging it sounds like an indefinite absence for Bradley at and put some reporting that if it's a sports hernia which is kind of related
00:20:59the groin where is it saying hey you know what he's at his he's a one-ball Defender he's got to move his feet like that is that's all core stuff at and he's absolutely right about that and end with Bradley's free agency impending you have to wonder about whether he could it eventually just had surgery now or get shut down to the sun's claim that this year we're not going to take Jay Triano noting that shutting down Eric Bledsoe was a big reason why he was so disgruntled and perhaps they got less in trade for him that then they might have work they could actually know kept him around and try to win some games this year so they claim that I could do that but with blood so God I really the only two guys who you would look at as veteran shutdown candidates are are Tyson Chandler is doing with a sore neck right now and it's been missing some games that and of course Jared Dudley so it's not like they have all these guys that they're going to shut down anyway so I don't think it's going to matter and they've been playing all the rest players and they still been plenty bad this season anyway maybe they'll look old
00:21:59better without repeat but it's looking like that is kind of keep an eye on not have any malfeasance but we've seen a couple games already of these teams that are in the bottom going out to Leeds and losing those leads promptly cuz they were hitting every shot but it is it is interesting how other than Mavericks win against the gravity has always falling in the same direction but that is what you would expect that nice story out of New Orleans Emeka Okafor has signed for the rest of the season he's actually been starting getting the Keith bogans but just to save Anthony Davis's ego that he doesn't have to actually start at center of the ironically is probably costing himself at a chance of First Team all-nba by not doing that of those going to play so many minutes it Center now that he'll probably be in that conversation that would be really interesting to see whether he or to L&B did end up getting first-team all-nba if we continue on the same path but good for Okafor it to get back we had such a mysterious injury me it's been so long since he's played that you have to go back
00:22:592013 when that injury popped up and then the Wizards treating a first-round pick to the sun's for Marcin Gortat to replace her and that's it that's the last time he had played in the NBA really worked his way back through the G league in and has been able to give it a New Orleans at least some decently effective minutes injury wise Cody Zeller experience some soreness in surgically repaired left me he did not return from the game on Monday I believe it's against the Bulls Dwight Howard had a sore back but it supposed to play tonight Wednesday night is a recording before that's a concern for Zoloft to monitor that I need definitely whether it's bone bruise swelling the surgery that seems to really suffer from some of these nagging issues and when you have swelling in the same knee that was repaired that's never a good sign but what a good sign for the Mavericks is Nerlens Noel will be available tonight Wednesday night to play for the first time he is apparently will not be bought out cuz this is the last day to do that before
00:23:59you can sign with a contender you don't have to sign prior to March 1st but you must be bought out by March first and then you can sign up until the last day of the regular season in still play in the playoffs and buyouts a corporation is there has been some speculation that I've seen that he could reunite with college coaching this as a poor use of resources for the Thunder I don't think he gives like he's not a part of a playoff rotation and that's really the line for them because they want to not oh well that's why I think it would be effective truth but I agree with you I think you really need something on the wing & Brews Ivette Donovan of course heads up in the urity with you can vary I mean this this smacks of years ago the Thunder signing guys like Derek Fisher and Quran Butler who really were not able to contribute Much Anymore back in the Kevin Durant hair and then play
00:24:59I'm over attentively Superior option as well and so it you know I think playing Brewer over and Alex abrines I think my brain is just way better that Denver is just bruised inability to shoot it and his defense is always been massively overrated. If you're getting Injustice insurance as a good bat all right I get that but the fear is that he's going to play in and if they do sign in my prediction will be that he will be a part of the playoff rotation and that would be the Thunder detriment couple of there just real quick injury things Aaron Gordon is is playing but he's not all the way it is still dealing with some hip stuff and Jonathan Isaac is not returning just yet he played for the Lakeland magic we talked about that a little bit on the 15 and 60 and then I believe I saw the Terrence Ross had a little bit of a setback so he's still a little while away from returning in this point that means we might not see much of the rest of the season
00:25:59that happened before the All-Star break he had missed nearly a month of time here and there and then came back is still as parently experiencing some pain so if that's going to be the case not sure whether a surgical intervention will be required here whether it's just going to be rough but he's someone who couldn't Erie PA shutdown candidate as well and frankly considering the fact that it's so much of his value this year has been in shooting that we believe is unsustainable might actually be a good idea unless he can really beat this pretty quickly and we still haven't seen who's going to get waived it in Philadelphia yet maybe that'll come down pretty quickly here they are reportedly going to sign personally sofa Trevor Booker did not play last night against Miami they went with richaun Holmes and it to Big alignment instead of Booker and so that maybe could argue that it would be Booker they did trade it first round or a second round pick for him obviously it in addition to Okafor and South gets at not that those guys had any value and they prove that it in Brooklyn so far but for the front office to give up a second-rounder and then move on
00:26:59from Booker would not be the greatest it in terms of public relations but I think would in fact be the right so let's talk about these young Coors and that we decided to use it Young chords to turn that's thrown around a lot of these guys have a great young core they have the best unicorn that's what would have course inspired it the question which was a good one I would give credit to the viewer who did it but I'm sorry I don't remember it as of this but to where we went on this was a little different definition of the eat the young part of young core age 25 season or younger and I think that's where you can still hope that these guys are going to get a little bit better even if you don't for the prospect list we do 23 but we're talking about for that guy that we expect to still get a lot better with when you're 23 but have your 25 and you're going to be under team control for a while then I think it's it's reasonable to include that in your 25 through 28 they may not be young by the end of it but what kind of thinking about the question of can you see these guys being
00:27:59score of a good team in 3 years and then we also generally unless there were certain extenuating circumstances wanted to limit it to guys who are under team control either via their current contract or via restricted free agency for the next three seasons after this one but it again in a few extenuating circumstances we made exceptions and like what your methodology was your day I'll add is there there is a question with some of these teams specifically the ones that have already been established in terms of whether those players are key on their team I think one of the differences between the two of us is that I like to think about it in the abstract the Celtics are probably things if I might as well just get out and say it because those players are not the entirety of the core of their current but the way I thought about it because I thought it was more intellectually interesting it is what if they were the core of their own team and so if they didn't have the surrounding Talent like Al Horford and Gordon qualify
00:28:59interesting for me and you convinced me on that we were talking earlier today about it it seem like I wanted to go in another Direction like all they have to be Decor right now but I think it's more would they be the core of the team in three years so to me there were six teams that really were in consideration at the Celtics Kyrie Irving still at his age 25 season Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum would be the main guy's you could throw Terry Rozier Marcus Smart in there as well as guys are at least establish rotation players at this point I'm not sure that Rosie or smart are really going to be started the man that was kind of the threshold for me is guys that you look at is like okay he's the Remis Surefire quality starters I'm not sure you could say that about Irving Brown anyone other than Irving Brandon Tatum on the youngest but they have some other guys that maybe you some out to who could hit their Celtics on the list for you probably not considering draft picks at all because
00:29:59that's not fair but the Celtics also do have dropped assets that could be readily be added to the score or they could take some of those assets and throw it to Anthony. I don't think would qualify for this was your day is as of right now oh no my friend he doesn't even turn 25 until March 11th ridiculous I didn't see all that but but none the less since he's the only guy even remotely it is really hard to have the pelt in this especially when you consider just really seem to have stagnated so badly I mean that like one guy isn't really what the spirit of the question is about to meet so it sounds like they're on their little bit through some of the ones that we didn't think of his talk to her but are still notable will let's let's get the ones that we are talking about the way I want to do this is let's do the ones that we think are really in consideration for
00:30:59and then at the end of this tablet hey this is what the threshold is saying it's a lot easier to say well you're not meeting it here and we'll see whether at least two objective fan these are controversial emissions but as I mentioned I had six one was the Celtics the Denver Nuggets Nikola jokic Jamal Murray Gary Harris are the three who really stick out you could also maybe through a trail Isles in there as well and they have some limitations what will discuss all these teams more in Greater detail so nuggets on the list for you oh yeah I mean you have star talent you have starter talent and then Lyles is an intriguing bench player who who really does provide value for them and also so I know this isn't a consideration for me but I wanted to mention that all of their guys even if you expand it to me they're all 23 and younger so these are really young young core guys which is great and that that's benefit
00:31:59Barton yeah they've got Wilson Chandler start to play a little bit better lately. Plumlee team that's been over 500 this year with your three best players essentially or or maybe three most important you can argue about whether Marie it is been better than maybe fart in this year but it your three most important players three three most important starter is all 23 of younger to be this good is Raymond in the off that's why it was so rare when that OKC team Maids actually made the finals in 2012 with I think if they were all 23 or younger heart Westbrook and Durant Mount know that we'll ever really see anything like that again it in NBA history that's it's absolutely crazy soap nuggets definitely on that list of Mia though I think they do have some structural limitations going for the could limit their ceiling the Milwaukee Bucks although Chris Middleton and Eric Bledsoe are probably two or three best players now they still have a nice-looking Corgi
00:32:59for the Anastasia cupo who is the best player right now of I think of anybody who were were considering among this young Core group and then Jabari Parker looking better in this analysis since he's come back in at least offensive Leah is look pretty decent and then then it gets a little dicey or if you're talking about guys who were going to be in a looking like high-level as far as maybe Malcolm Brogdon gets there A Thon maker I'm not willing to totally give up hope it certainly is no he's got a long long way to go to name a few more out there too would like a Sterling Brown and I did appreciate your inclusion of Marshall Plumlee is Marshall Plumlee even under 25 + 25 season I'm saving those jokes for other times it's obviously an Oster the walls are an interesting one cuz you would think okay core that means at least three guys will they only have three guys that really even fall into this category Townsend
00:33:59things for sure obviously those guys that are stars though when one of the guys is when the guys in question or not have a player in Butler is clearly better than either of them you definitely have to get a demerit there because he's been the one carrying them to winning basketball and then Titus Jones is the other one and I'm not sure that I see tyus Jones is a starter maybe you could be a lower and starter at some point but you're not a lot of depth it with those walls they do have the top in town with towns in Odyssey Wiggins is one of the more controversial players in the NBA rules on there for you is really important there and I really like tyus Jones I think Ty Stones can be a part of a significant part of their success whether it's is the starter is it back up so I think he does help their case and when you look at a lot of these third guys you know what he's accomplished in a different way and I like the way he fits with the other two which is not a major consideration but it is something I thought about because of guys can select then they provide less value as a core together who else
00:34:59you viewed as a reasonable contender in this analysis the unquestionable those guys are all established at this point at 2 to their own degree markelle fultz we both had is the number one guy in his class there are still a lot of question marks he was obviously not established at this point and then on the fringes TJ McConnell and tlcme of mentioning here just because I think he's I don't expect him to be a starter and then McConnell is value backup including tyus Jones including McConnell was certainly fair and I mean you have depth you have guys especially the top dude that already fit together well which is shocking considering this is their first season playing together and so yeah in the conversation Lakers yeah I had the Lakers as the kind of the last team in and of course still giving giving a shit about that her own independent
00:35:59decisions on it but the combination of Ingram ball kuzma Josh Hart and then you can you can make arguments that other players should be but they don't really have either as a team control or just everything else with Randall kcp they only have none right she would qualify which is amazing just by how young he is heading there centers are good and Brian are good enough right now to the to really make it into this poor conversation because they have serious potential I think who's been better this year than I expected and he's really made some strides with the ball in his hands down my last team in but I did have them as well and we can talk more about them you know that maybe I don't know if they're going to be last of mine this fixed it in the ultimate analysis I didn't think there was really anybody else close enough at this point it to Merritt inclusion of the other certainly are some teams that have that are bad and have some young players but they're either don't quite have the depth don't quite as it's our power just there are too early
00:36:59will take a second here and then we'll come back and figure out who we think has the best young core in the NBA after this for wink I have not really been a huge Wine Drinker but certainly living in the Bay Area do plenty of it and of course I was generally just reduced to going to the liquor store and seeing which labeled look the prettiest and was within my budget and sticking with out and going to a party and hoping that cuz that's what you're supposed to bring to a party right it's why I'm just hoping that I had actually picked out it a decent bottle and usually people were nice enough to say that it was good but who knows where they are actually telling the truth or not however my sister is the one who definitely can be trusted to tell the truth she is a Dunkin after all and is it really super into sparing people's feelings that when it comes to beverage choices cuz she's work in the service industry for a long time no see everything there is to know about Beverages and so I was worried when she came to visit over Christmas or am I going to do to get a decent bottle of wine here that's actually a mess this morning I realized oh yeah
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00:38:59why winc.com got Swayze zero that / cap space URL to get that $20 off cuz you talk about Castaways here all the time on the program at try wink.com guess who's the number one slot hear what I'm really trying to think about is if you take these all these guys in 3 years and then you just you try to fill in with a normal T mineral resources are on them who's going to make the core of the best team in is the what was the answer that question for you out of those teams that we still have a really nice balance you have a guy in Ben Simmons who can handle the ball who can do a lot of the high leverage things do you need on that and Joelle embiid is still my Defensive Player of the Year pick it despite this being his first full year of basketball which is unbelievable to be at that level at this point sure they're injury risks and all that and then we talked about Sin 1560 he's really impressed as fitting with that group depending on who they get long-term
00:39:59it's more of a Super Sub but he has been a good starter for them there's no reason you should be incredibly talented guy is an impeachable just needs a jump shot to be valid and so they have this nice balanced the team that was actually the closest for me and I didn't expect this going in partially because I didn't really realize I just was Kyrie's age 25 season is the Celtics because what the Celtics have that is incredibly valuable is two players on the way that fit together and it's easier to build with that group than almost all of the other combinations you have those too that means you can get a center Diamond dozen right now not a big deal you don't have to get somebody perfect don't they have a really good guy and Horford and then you probably want to get a tattoo I'm thinking that's probably the way you want to do it end of the two three four that's probably the easiest guy to get along with what they already have you can even just get another 3 if the guy can shoot so those were one and two for me which is Ludacris because those two teams actually have more draft. That's been a lot of the other teams on this list
00:40:59somebody carpet the inclusion of Irving whose only actually under contract for one more year but considering that he is really having an actual Lies season in Boston that he engineer to trade to Boston that Boston will be able to offer more years and more money than anybody else it when he becomes a free agent and that they are looking like they're pretty successful team I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt hear that that you can count on him being there I mean you never know obviously but I feel pretty good about that compared to a lot of these free agent decisions especially since the Celtics are looking like the other going to be right up there in the east at this whole time it's very difficult decision for me between the Sixers and the Celtics in part for some of the reasons that we've discussed lately about the tix are being such an extreme odd team it in this day and age and with Simmons and bead even Shard like guys do a very extreme strengths and weaknesses and well you have Robert Covington while he's too little too old to be on this list
00:41:58he should be around during this period still you can think of him as may be part of this but it's very difficult for me to know how this thing is going to be in the playoffs because we've seen that the best teams of recent vintage have been built around great players on the wing who can attack off the dribble who can also shoot a great point guard play at times and a lot of shooting in this is Guy three guys your top three guys it looks like we're not going to be none of them are amazing shooting me to be until he will take some 3 but he's not that's not his role charge just hitting okay but he's not like me or just some absolute bomber type of guys more of a versatile player and obviously swimming test this massive limitation I do believe you would with markelle fultz even if it's less likely that his upside will now be realize he still does have that upside it to me and so maybe you could say these guys of the highest outside and then you can also though if you're going to change the Celtics proofing is the most prototypical of this group in terms of the type of player that's been really sick
00:42:58Apple leading teams of weight and he's been to the finals he's been great in the finals already which no one else really in this discussion can say but Brown Tatum you I'm not sure how much I believe it in there shooting those other guys root beer in smart you're not really a major part of this to me I don't see them as high-level starter is going forward and well Brandon Tatum physically are the type of guys in the wing that you struggle to acquire and as you mentioned it still kind of easier to fill out around them I guess I might go at the Celtics in the little bit better than for me the differences defense because I think that what you need around the Sixers is you need shooting and capable ball-handling from guys that are guard size that is possible to do you know you were going to get perfect players because we're assuming equal assets were not assuming they get with the Sixers do with the full max pot and a lottery pick this year all that kind of stuff to have one of those truly rare
00:43:58where is that can probably stay on the floor against he seems that effects the game every time he's he's their top 10 digit really provide a ton of value but those guys especially in the top five really really do because they were miles away and will need to see him beat in the playoffs but the idea of the margin between him and whatever that theoretical set Celtics score could have because they don't get Horford in this hypothetical what day could have around them I think that margin is really really significant and for me it's just more that I'm just not sure that a big 7 to Center and then your other best player who can't shoot outside a 3ft is going to work in the playoffs it's just too unorthodox maybe it will why the Box not in this to you and Giannis by far to me is the best player of any of these guys is definitely the best of those guys and also he gets
00:44:58Kyrie you if you had a wonderful wonderful career to this point I would say when you think about how insane Jabari brogden's on the same caliber I mean they can they can be support players but I don't think they can really step up I mean Ben Simmons On The Fringe of the all-nba conversation this year like that is a very different levels were Jabari Parker has ever been is Jabari just didn't suck so badly I deep on through would be and obviously the health issues too but I think if you just weren't a complete Civ defensively I would just feel so much better about where this buxton's was but I agree with you I have a great deal of skepticism both help and defensive end from making his teammates better standpoint even on offense I think you know we believe in his score is the second option than Brogden maker maker does I still feel like having a fair amount upside to be a good starter but the questions about his age the lack of improvement this year of the
00:45:58Frank the issues that he is a big issue and so much depends on the box to of just like what ends up happening with their coaching situation going or just want me if they can get a great coach in there and then really feel in the right town around these guys we might feel very differently about all of these players in the future but as of right now I think it's it's difficult to me any I mean Simmons is just to spite his limitations so much better than ever to than Jabari is and no Jabari Jalen vs Jenna Brown Jayson Tatum Tatum by the way really falling off in the last couple of months with the shooting as we expect to be shooting like 32% from 3 I think in the last couple months it's I'm just not enough of a believer in Jabari to put the box of this conversation you just don't have one that I found really hard because it's just choosing which thing you value was between the Bucks in the Nuggets because the bus have the better top guy I mean yanis is better right now
00:46:58is it to wait like kind of has an overall impact and I expect jokic to be in your pictures fabulous I love that but he's just not you know I had for the year through January I don't think he'll be there for February but he said that level at this point I don't think it was going to be there but Jamal Murray and Gary Harris are both higher significantly higher run to me than Jabari Brogden those type of guys so it's kind of MVP candidate more than you value that to rock-solid starters ideally and maybe Jamal has more potential than that do you value the the truth but if you had because we're including things other than just the score but if you did say all right over the next five years which team the Bucks are the Nuggets is going to have the highest win total in an individual season I'll go to Boston I think pretty clearly over there because they have e honest and just like not a bunch of total clowns around them like they should be I think they're going
00:47:5850 games I'm not sure that the Nuggets can get there because they have some massive structural issues here I mean yoke is paris's and I think he's overrated as individual Defender he gets steals it but not so when you look at its really like a lockdown guy and he's also just a 2-guard anyway doesn't have the size to guard the best Wing guys don't have anyone on this team even now and certainly not in this core who can guard it the best wings on the other team and Marie has gotten better this year defensively but he still asleep jokic is awful I know that he has like dude RPM numbers but me if you just he's just too slow moving out of the cord especially when you get into the playoffs it's going to be a disaster Trey Lyles is awful defensively as well so that they really disc or has nobody in it who can really defend it so I just don't see how this nuggets team whatever get to the level defensively where they're going to be a solid 51 team unless they make you a real big addition and head maybe it'll look a lot better with Milsap in I'm not sure that's going to be the case
00:48:58but it's supposed to be just talking about the car I think they just have too many limitations and then what they still need to get Solid 3 and D contributors and then you still have a center who is is knocked me good defensively into debt that might still be fatal to you anyway so I that's why I have the Nuggets I think a little bit lower even though I like all their pieces individually I just I kind of wish you could I could trade one of the it like you know Jamal Murray for Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum and said even though you I might even like Marie as much or more than those guys at this point but just to fit issues that I think are Massive Ordnance you return a little bit but what you need around those guys if you need okay you need for words that can defend and ideally can still shoot credibly great so does everybody else when I was with the Bucks it's more like the Sixers I need is is more durable and they also have some intriguing kind of upside pieces Brogdon I think I can fit in certain elements with the honest at least a part of the rotation and thought he could be a potential
00:49:58kind of better lottery ticket guys in that then the Nuggets do so I went that way as well but I just found it I found it interesting and intellectual exercise and I had the Nuggets over the Wolves for that reason being because they are not for that reason because I like the ancillary stuff I I think sounds better you know in the prospect rankings I think there's more of a ceiling especially defensively if he ever does get it whether he does or not is an open question for now call Marie and Gary Harris have do they have a lot more offense of capability I think I can see their place in that and Wiggins hasn't been good enough defensively Tim to make me take out what he can do that you don't have the physical capability but he has a job and really could become a contributor on both ends and you could hit shots then I might feel a lot differently but you know it's really tough to say between the Wolves and the Nuggets I agree with you the town's it is better than anyone in that Nuggets score but you know I I take weekends is one of the most under
00:50:58overrated player they should say at this point and the nuggets have a lot more flexibility I mean this is not really part of this but just in general they have more flexibility get better than the Wolves to where we on the Lakers right now yo Ingram is had a nice month of February Lonzo not really sure what to think about him at this when he's just coming back he's almost had a lost year due to injuries he has the shooting issues kuzma we were high on really just kind of falling off and he's looking more like kind of a scoring backup forward than a guy you're looking at is a future star I'd like was Dean from Josh Hart who just broke his hand today but he can be a guy at the two who can play up a little bit more defensively it hit shots of the way like to see him take more shots and he has I'm not sure whether to include Julius Randle we normally would for a guy's a restricted free agent but because of the fact that they may be trying to clear some more cat face with him this summer I'm not sure whether to include him or not as aggressively as we might um I think
00:51:58really what this comes down to though is what do you think of Lonzo ball and what do you think of branding my concern with the Lakers is that they have a lot of guys that are more Indy kind of four through seven range on a good team then players who wrote the one two three and we know that that is essential for building a successful linchpin type guys and good this year what I want to see from him the rest of the rest of the season is okay we have the ball in his hands. It certainly activates him a little bit more but there is a threshold test as it is it just isn't relevant to the Lakers this year because they are good enough for that switches can be a part of an offense that is actually good that can compete against good teams or is it just the best use of him and with Lonzo ball it's the same depth chart all the way around better with the ball in your hands doesn't mean you're good enough to propel a team and that's the difference between Giannis in Ingram
00:52:58he's made strides this year the defense in particular I think he's been a big part of this team that has defended why I think that Lonzo can be a solid defensive player maybe not a lockdown guy but a guy you could be a quality Health Defender from the garden slot not really giving that much juice to kuzma hard in this because you really need to be in this conversation you have to have the top-end tell I mean it at but as you're just going to compare and Lonzo we know what is shooting struggles have been even if you want to say he gets to start shooting it better you know he still is a ton of limitations running pick-and-roll getting The Rim finishing getting to the foul line actually making a free throw all those he's got a very very long way to go there I mean so if you just going to compare Brandon Ingram and Lonzo ball to Nikola jokic and Jamal Murray Gary Harris and me I think there's really even though those guys are not that good defensively as of right now I'm in those guys are not that much older than Ingram involved and they're just so much more accomplished you I mean I don't see Ingram or ball playing at an all NBA team
00:53:58bubble the way words with c from Nikola jokic there's nobody at take it anywhere near the upside of Giannis or towns R&B tour Simmons in there a 10 piece nuggets at Ingram is look better than they put the ball in his hands more I still remain skeptical of whether he's going to be worthy of that he's not that athletic he's not that shifty's not that good of a shooter he's not that good of a pastor defensively I think he's solid and he can switch but he's not just an all-encompassing Forest doing things are protecting the basket is still in Block rates are still pretty low and never gets a rebound giving it his physical tools made some strides but the Lakers hype machine is still completely out of control for him and if you just did he's one of these guys wear if you didn't know that he was listed as having a 7-3 wingspan like how much lower would the hype on him beat right but you just still doesn't do enough with that wingspan though he gets graded on this curve where it's like always doing all this
00:54:58stop and he has this wingspan so it's like somehow more impressive that he's doing what he's doing because you just assume he has this wingspan until the sky's going to be the limit for him where is you I'm not really sure that there is evidence for that at this point I think he's going to be a sergeant or I think you could be a solid starter maybe you could be the second best player on a pretty good team though that's what I see more of his upside and that's if he reaches that upside so I just be is uptight is much lower to me than just the top-end guys ever talk about hearing and end the same thing with Lonzo ball Dolan taste yet after this conversation I think it's been clarifying I'm moving them into kind of a separate ear because there's some other teams that we haven't mentioned that have really intriguing Coors and so I was thinking about what City Indiana Pacers so the Pacers Oladipo still counts so talented and perfect you know all that kind of stuff sabonis is a valuable piece I mean there's a little bit of duplication and certainly not positional valuation with that and then you know some lottery tickets TJ leaf and then gr3
00:55:58probably not consider because he's an unrestricted free agent this summer because of their top two is the Utah Jazz Donovan Mitchell Rudy gobert in either order I mean Mitchell is more the rising guy gobert phenomenal talent and I think he gets the Kyrie Irving penalty where he's been kind of at this level for such a long time that he gets hurt being a member of a young core were because we think of it as like the guys that are rising rather than the guys that have already sent support pieces are are razor deal on XM I mean they're going to have the rights on him if they want to they can figure that out so I was sitting there going like okay I think those two teams are in the mix with the Lakers and especially Abbey over Depot right now he's been he's done more than I would say
00:56:58yeah you know what like I agree with you like I think I would move the Pacers and the different types of things to you and I both the Pacers guys and the Jazz guys even Mitchell who's the old are more fully-formed than Ingram Lonzo ball 20 and 19 respectively so but if you want to say hey what I rather have Donovan Mitchell and Rudy gobert or would I rather have Brandon Ingram and Lonzo ball for the rest of their careers like no contest I would rather have Mitchell angle pair and then they don't have the death behind those guys but I don't think that Kyle kuzma and Josh Hart are closing that Gap in Indian for the Pacers there's still some skepticism about Oladipo you did some research on how is shot is falling off particularly from 3 we'll see how much longer he can keep this up the Pacers actually I'm a little bit of losing skid right now Turner is another guy that I've kind of been skeptical up but yeah I still even with the way Oladipo is played so far this year you I think it's very possible that either Brandon Ingram norlando ball
00:57:58where has as good of a season as Victor Oladipo is having right now for the pace you're not really at this awful but once you may want to mention just because it's such an unusual group is Toronto and Jakob poeltl in Valanciunas pill says K 25 year just in terms of death bike that's almost a great team but it's almost a team and I'm glad we talked about to have their second unit has been wonderful this year and I just admire the strength of that and you have all those guys that I think are capable rotation players and under team control so they all qualified and they just don't have the top-end talent me know it's a lot of great role players out of here among like the top 7 or 8 and then we can talk about some of these other barely receiving votes teams so you're number one is the Sixers
00:58:58Celtics bucks nuggets wolves Jazz Pacers Lakers spend those teams are all really really close and that's barely ahead of the Sixers bucks third I just cuz you're honest it is so good out of the Wolves ahead of the Nuggets just because I still think that it's a little bit too hard to build around those guys if you're keeping all of them as a cord any of the woods a little bit more top-end talent I think we might be sleeping a little bit too much of the Jesuits just it's hard to when he was only two people to really call it a core but you could certainly meet the argument that like Donovan Mitchell and Rudy gobert are is more valuable than having the three nuggets guys I mean that's interesting question to act like you know is gobert better than yogurt we write them I think both of us higher than you'll get your other yogurt is younger I do think Jamal Murray still has just a crapload of upside as an offensive player he was going to ask me what his upside is and I've always said like I do
00:59:58like stuff light it is his up siamese ever going to get to that level I don't know if anyone in NBA history ever will reach the heights at sep Curry has it has just me off your shooter but I think Marie has the ability maybe need to be kind of the closest thing we've seen to him I don't think he's going to get there but I think he is the possible to get there so it's but if we're really talking about not just upside but I think that jazz group has some more certainty and and they're going to defend as well so if we're not going to penalize too much for death you I might even have the Jazz and I'm sorry I didn't mention them early on so maybe I've been all those Utah pain just turn this off already in Anger Liam is probably like burned his computer already actually or hopefully just as fun if he's listening to the podcast on his phone but yeah I might even have the jazza as high as V above the Nuggets but I would have the Nugget substantially above Pacers or Lakers and Lakers would probably be whatever that is 7/30 it to me
01:00:58do I just said before you talk about the few the other teams did the depth of the Nuggets is interesting in miles is just a completely dismiss him he has shown some nice little flashes defensive over rotation guy then obviously haven't mentioned yet who do you think has like the biggest gripe of being left out her or who would you rank as the next highest out of this group movie is a better way to put that because I know who's going to have the biggest gripe that just won't be justified that's Suns fans in the cult of Devin Booker definitely have the biggest gripe and and adding elfrid Payton does really help them even though he's imperfect but just having a point guard option because that was one of the Flies with them and the other guys you qualify for reference TJ Warren Josh Jackson Bender Marquese Chriss how how much enthusiasm you have for them so they do have this like
01:01:58the score sure absolutely still am not sold on him as an offensive Force as a player who can Elevate even Superior talent to what he has right now but just by virtue of being out there that key can prove that he will have hope we have the opportunity to do that in the future but he just has not done it yet amongst one of the differences between genius if the ACL tear hadn't happened I think I think that actually materially affected the next part of this for me because Frank ntilikina Tim Hardaway Jr and then Kendra Moody I both are age-appropriate but just have different elements of it there but we don't know what porzingis we're going to see you from this point I mean it is it is massively concerning these us about 4 years so you have that will have the biggest gripe I disagree with that the sun's to me
01:02:58and 3 years from now you just keep the team together I don't see you even like a 500 team there be an identity at the until the next to be positive I think I know what I would have their identity of limitations is Shooter's TJ Warren wonderful score of it has had that stuff out for Peyton doesn't exactly you feed fuel that fire in any positive way and then bender and Chris they have they have their values but they're not there just go to the list the Mavs really only Dennis Smith Jr is the one you can say Harrison Barnes NBA free agent after next year nobody else really that sexy in that group you could look at D'Angelo Russell Spencer Dinwiddie Jared Allen rondae hollis-jefferson Laverne Allen Crabbe amazing the album crab is Bill that young but don't see the top-end talent with the
01:03:58look at that he gets an interesting question of whether you'd rather have those guys or the Bulls guys Market in LaVine and Kristen are really the only ones that I put in that category as guys I've look at it like potential future stars but yeah I'm not sure that either of those teams if you look at it a lot of it to me would depend on like how good Jared Allen to be defense week and he be one of those guys who is going to be like a solid you make us all depends on his own he hasn't been doing that this year would see how bad they've been defensive lately but he's obviously a rookie let's see who else we time in the magic we just don't know what Aaron would Jonathan Isaac in particular you would be at 7:40 and end for new movies I don't see those guys skinny like so much better you know either that's another was it seems we like our yard to keep this guy's together and they'll just never even be like a 500 team the Kings just way too Limited at this point is all those guys are in this analysis already there pretty close to fully formed gosh you know what like me if you want to just say like if you just kept these guys together and they were the best guy
01:04:58weather team 3 years from now you might just say the Raptors just because you know like they're going to defend and they'll be able to hit shot you and you can hopefully just fill in around them with some like instant offense guys here and there and actually have like a decent enough team that you know is going to defend and play hard and cause problems for people and Tyler Johnson going to score but they're going to just send the ever-loving crap out of every team in the Raptors but I would have totally enjoy having that group of guys for the next little while making me pick one of these is a gun to my head Josh I don't know just so many guys who aren't fully forward to our massive defensive liabilities worth noting year that none of these this later groups were talking about has anything approaching like a solid really like to weigh
01:05:58Wing player in the group of Tim Hardaway Jr doesn't qualify deserve serious consideration for this just because porzingis at his best has been incredibly he's been better than any other player that that is not in that top tier and has so far away and if you think about what you need from another reason you need somebody who can run a waterpik and roll when you can do the offense but I mean porzingis isn't is enough is enough to to get to get in the conversation in the way that I think so in Spanish probably feel Devin Booker's but Devin Booker's. Kristaps porzingis in the Pistons I mean at this level with drum and drum encountered Stanley Johnson the last name that you put hear that I'm not going to say the barrel here so I'm glad we did this I'm glad to that question. Oh my God like that's the worse
01:06:58oh where would you put the Pelicans here just because they've Anthony Davis I mean basically a d by himself as you know getting you a 4245 Winthrop for the Raptors as much as I like all those guys because it's the truth but that really a beige the spirit of the choir I didn't even even went with some of these like the jazz is almost kind of doing that wear it when he's really a game you say core you really mean three people you know so I kind of fudging it even with two for the jet so I can't really say that because we're so excited about these players plural or singular
01:07:58obviously improve with the draft is probably Memphis I mean to have a lot of you know Dylan Brooks Wayne Selden like type of guys that I don't expect to be starters on a good team and they don't have other guys really be on that it's just a bunch of big band lottery tickets that don't look like they're going to pan out tomorrow night with the gamers on the Thursday night games at to close out the week of our sponsors. Com / Cassidy's could use $20 off your first order to and you can take their Pop Quiz get some wine that you're actually going to enjoy it and will impress Discerning other people in your life as well talk to you out there on time

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