In this interview, Michael Seibel explains how to gain the interest of investors. He reveals how to effectively communicate the product and the market opportunity. He also reveals the common pitfalls founders face when it comes to fundraising.

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00:00:00So here's a company i recommend ifyou're entrepreneur and you have a sad business their court charged bee and it helps you manage subscription and re occurring payments it hopes you send beautiful invoices and it handles payment values It also works with you and viotti complaints They have a
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00:00:31speaking with michael sybil thank you so much for joining today Thank you Great to be here Thanks Can you introduce yourself Sure My name is michael I'm a partner Why combinator And before that i was co founder of justin tv and twitch and also co founder of social
00:00:48cam The reason why i'm really came to interview today is i've watched a lot of your videos and i just like your focus on simplicity clarity and not over complicated things and this is especially applies to when you're pitching investors Can you explain why it's so important to
00:01:06know the pitch within that deck Yeah i think that what most founders mess up on here is they don't understand how to get an investor hooked on their business extremely quickly and i think actually a focus on decks is challenging because the typical advice you get for a
00:01:34deck is in the form out of having a meeting for an hour but most the time that you interacting with an investor it's through that initial email or an introduction in person or a phone call where you don't have an hour of someone's in person undivided attention so
00:01:51i really think instead of us focusing on decks we should really be focusing on what's that one and a half to two minute overview of your business i'll get someone to be interested and to initiate it back and forth conversation the thing we always tell why see founders
00:02:07is there's a polite question there's an interested question and there's excited question after hearing about your business for a year and a half to two minutes what type of question can you solicit from an investor how do you go about again and investors excited about your startup I
00:02:25think it's understanding what investors actually care about is the first thing i think that unfortunately people really believed that investors are interested in their personal story or in the grand story of their business and i think that when investors interested in the company they very much want to
00:02:48know that but that personal story or the grandson of the businesses often what's not what's going to get an investor interested upfront so you kind of have to flip it around and say to yourself what happens if you are someone where many many many entrepreneurs were trying to
00:03:07pitch them every day soon you will have heard most variations of interesting stories and you've met all kinds of dynamic people and fortunately or unfortunately that won't seem very special to you anymore so whereas you believe that your personal stories unique and interesting investors heard some variation of
00:03:25that story especially if they've been investing for a couple years so the things that they think about what could get them interested in your personal story is kind of a brief overview of what you've done so what it starts with is what are you working on One of
00:03:41the things we work on why see cos a lot is in one to two sentences can you accurately explain what you're working on in simple language without any jargon Oftentimes we kind of go back to these cliches analogies does your mom understand these two sentences But i think
00:04:00sometimes creasy analogies air cliche because they work and all too often i'll get a founder who says something to me and i don't even understand what it isthe and then i've got two modes aiken be polite and assume that i'll figure it out or i can just stop
00:04:15right there and say can you say that again because unfortunately even though i see many many cos i might not be an expert in your specific area or more often than not you just didn't say it clearly so it starts within one to two cents can you actually
00:04:29say what you do without any background within any introduction without anything else what do you do and the second thing is is can you communicate how big the market is most would understand that investors have to do some pretty simple math they have to figure out whether you
00:04:44can build a billion dollar company within your market and if you could just do a little bit of that math forthem and show them that a billion dollar opportunity could exist it doesn't have to be perfect but shouldn't about doing our opportunity blown our market it could exist
00:04:59or does exist it just makes it easier for the investor to get interested the next one is what you've done um what an investor fears the most is hearing an idea with nothing executed on that idea because the number one thing that i look at is whether a
00:05:17team can execute i'm not going to be the one who can figure out whether pinterest is going to be a successful company or not the first second that pinterest launch launches what i can't figure out is did it take them six years to launch me one or two
00:05:31take them six days to launch v one and that says a lot about the company so when i ask people what their attraction is what i usually i'm trying to get at is what have you done over the period of time even working on your startup and ken
00:05:46is that something that i find impressive on dh that can apply to every single kind of company if it's a software company that has a social element then usually over short part of time they've launched and they have some users if it's a hardware company maybe during that
00:06:01period of time they have a prototype what if it's you know even an aerospace company like literally there's always some way that you can frame what you've done over a period of time that can make someone interested that makes him and believe that you operate faster and better
00:06:16than the other people around you so those three things like usually those three things are the corps if you don't get past if you don't get those three things done you can't even do the next set of three things so that is what you do having the market
00:06:28is and what's your traction the next set of three things are what's unique insight what's your business model and why you're the team to execute on this and so unique insight i'd like to explain this is a lot of different things but basically it's the one sentence you
00:06:44say that makes me think oh man they're thinking about this differently this is a unique thought a unique approach unique something unique insight and it's often the thing that i will say about that company when i'm talking to other people you know i'll say what they do i'll
00:07:02say the traction but i'll say this is what they don't know this's what they understand that no one else does or this is why right now is the time to do this and two years before you couldn't so unique insight is like what you've taught me can you
00:07:14teach me something that's kind of a viral idea that i'm gonna want to teach other people business model is how you wanna make money super basic doesn't have to be complicated and then while you're the team to do this just give me an idea of why you guys
00:07:26are the team to do this you know did you just think of it up Is this a problem you had is the problem you saw the people having whatever you should be able to do all six things than a minute and a half two minutes it really doesn't
00:07:39take longer and i'll tell you when i get that great men and a half to two minute pitch i know instantly whether i want to engage or whether i'm like on this is not interesting s so you're basically instead of feeding in investor all of these like raw
00:08:00ingredients that they have to chop and then cook and then he this two minutes is like feeding them baby food ready to go he's a digest you know immediately they understand whether they're a good fit whether they can offer help whether they can offer introductions on dh that's
00:08:14human it pitch could be just a cz useful for when you're talking to customers just is useful when you're talking to potential employees So on so forth one of the mistakes they make a lot of founders make is they confused the investor pitch with customer pitch A lot
00:08:28of the time the investor is not going to be your customer and so the things that are going to get the customer interested or the language that customer would understand the investor won't So always remember that it's totally ok if you have a different pitch when you walk
00:08:43and talk to a customer that when you talk and talk to an investor got it If an investor says i'm not interested Is that it is that any way you can still persuade them oh shit jeans fit you just walk away when an investor says they're not interested
00:09:01in order get them interested you have to change the fax of your business and basically like they're two ways of changing the fax either you have to get traction because you basically haven't shown that you're actually execute on this business or that customers actually are liking your execution
00:09:22here by the way that's ninety percent of the time or ten percent of the time you do have that traction and in some way you haven't explained that to the investor or you haven't validated that it hasn't been validated externally so when i see a company in that
00:09:38situation what i try to figure out it's like okay how much progress have they've made it actually made a significant amount of progress i want to make sure they're telling the investor that progress and i want to make sure that that progress is being reflected in conversations about
00:09:50the company whether that's on hacker news whether that's on you know in techcrunch and the press just make sure that people are talking about that progress if progress hasn't been made then you've made the classic mistake of basically going to an investor when you have an idea because
00:10:07you think they're going to give you money to build it as opposed to going to an investor with something built that at least a small number of people like and receiving money as a reward for doing that And to continue that effort That's a classic mistake a lot
00:10:23of founders make What are your thoughts on investors saying oh this is not a billion dollar market when it seems like that anything can sort of be justified to be a billion dollar market so i disagree that with the idea that anything could be justified and if it
00:10:41can be then show your mouth s so when we talk about billion dollar markets with our startups we basically say you want to go top down or bottom up so let's say that you're disrupting an existing market we had a company that basically was creating a small business
00:10:59bank they're trying to disrupt the small business banking market in america instead of walking downtown to your local bank of america or chase you're just going to go online and create a bank account with these guys so small business banking in america's a hundred billion dollar market they're
00:11:14done the disrupting a three billion dollar market as long as they know that small business banking is two hundred million three into a billion dollar market they're good that's talked down i'll see you creating something that hasn't been done before or disrupting something in a weird way are
00:11:28applying a new business model then you want to go bottom up then you basically want to say how many potential customers are there if we were to sell everybody who could buy our product and then you wanna multiplied by how much you're charging pre here and then you
00:11:45have what we call a market opportunity It's Maybe not a market that exists right now which have a market opportunity If you can't show math either way top down or bottom up that proves that this is a billion dollar market then you probably should let either try harder
00:12:02do more research or really think about whether if solving this problem is going to create a billion dollar company So let's say the mass doesn't add up you find out that it's a five hundred million market yep should you avoid funding should you avoid raising money Well then
00:12:22you have to understand the motivation of the investor there exists many many many businesses that are good businesses that are successful businesses that do not fist that fit the profile of a venture investor so if we think about like the typical vc fund right and let's make the
00:12:40math like super simple let's say that vc fund has ten partners right I might say those partners putting the fund equally which they typically or not um basically when you look at the returns that that fund gets the fund basically gets twenty percent of the returns it generates
00:13:02and then those returns have to be split amongst the ten partners and so if you meant of course taxes are applied so if the size of your business um is small enough because of course if your whole market's five hundred million dollar market it's hard to assume i'm
00:13:20going to own all of it so the size of your business is small enough so that when you do that math out okay eighty percent goes to help ease twenty percent goes to partners that twenty percent now split between the partners now that's taxed If that amount of
00:13:34money at the end is tiny then you have to ask the question Why is that partner want to invest the money The time the effort the trials tribulations the meeting's involved in investing in a company and like everyone's operating off of self interest And so you have to
00:13:53understand what the investors self interest is To make a good income yeah yes they could get income Not and more and more importantly not to allow you to build the product that you dream about that's not their core interest Like a lot of people think investment is like
00:14:18school like a teacher Their job is to get you to fulfill your dreams to reach your full potential but investors are not teachers Send out a point and get that point again So what What who found this kid from so basically a teacher's role is to get you
00:14:37to fulfill your dreams to get you to think up ideas and then to motivate you to go out and do it in the world and investors rule is to make money for themselves and for their partners And so a lot of time on what about the founder The
00:14:53founders goal that really depends Typically the founders goal is either to make money to bring a product out in the world or to build a large company large organization or some combination of those things But what i'm trying to say here is that when you're trying to bring
00:15:09an investor all along your goal in many ways has to be subordinate to their goal Because because you're trying to give because they're giving you the money So so it's it's it's it's You have to understand what their goal is and you have to be able to explain
00:15:29your business in the context of their goal and their goal wasn't complicated It's you know making money isn't a complicated goal and the math as i've described isn't complicated math But you can't ignore it but then expect them to give you money Also often times people often times
00:15:54when people have small markets they can re scope their problem like take their problem one step up and then they hit a bigger market so i give you an example like in the for the small business bank right What happens if those guys instead of saying we want
00:16:11to build a small business bank what happens if they said we want to build a start up i have to replace small business banking for farmers in illinois well that math might not work but if they can scope out the customer from farmer's toe all small businesses they
00:16:30can smoke scope out the geography from eleanor to america they now have a billion on market so oftentimes it doesn't necessarily mean you have to change the idea it just means you have to change the scope you have to find more people who have that problem you're trying
00:16:45to solve yeah it's i'm glad i'm glad you mentioned that i had a hot date my clone the show on he sort of touched on that the founders sort of think too big initially weather then focusing on the nation well let's be clear there's a very big big
00:17:08difference between describing your m v p and describing your market and both have a very very specific role describing your m v p and your go to market strategy it's much better to have a small number of people love you then this large report Kind of like you
00:17:27So when you're just talking about that focus is important when describing your market it's important to now be able to communicate What is this that scale What's your vision of this thing at scale and like both of those are extremely important Um they don't replace each other and
00:17:47a good founder needs to understand both of them How do you decide who to race for me does it does it really make a difference um i mean if i raised from a top to investor oh my oh my chances dramatically improved my my chances of success dramatically
00:18:09improved maybe they've invested in the company google doesn't mean that they could increase the chances of him again bought by google so we have a saying that we used to have amongst founders back in the day which is that in a investor gives you money and doesn't nothing
00:18:28else that's in a gives you money and does not disrupt does not contribute just sits there and sees how it goes there's a lot of room below eh there's not a lot of room above a now they're definitely our investors who go above and beyond and who are
00:18:47a plus investors those a plus investors you will hear founders talking about how they made a huge difference in their company and i don't get it going after those a plus investors is oftentimes you know great for companies um the difference is is that there are a lot
00:19:09of folks who are not a plus you know the example of an a plus investors ron conway if you talk to fifty founders that ron's invested in who had companies for longer than a couple years you'll get forty nine stories about something that s for angel and ron
00:19:23conway did to help them that's an a plus investor yeah um i think you'll hear something similar about why c if you talk to fifty y c founders but what i would say is that if you're not competing for that a plus category then you need to be
00:19:45thinking about your investors as money I need to be more concerned about whether those folks are sophisticated and have the ability to invest by that i mean have the invested in technology companies before do they understand that most angel investments in technology companies go to zero can they
00:20:05afford to make that investment Can they afford to lose that money day one and when you talk to other people who have invested in are they good people Are there the kinds of investors who e mail you one so we can ask for complicated reports and try to
00:20:19run your company or the type of investors who will let you run your company and be there when you ask for questions or advice Um so if i were to kind of split up the world of investors i would say there are kind of the a plus folks
00:20:34you can really add value they are the a folks who give you money and are good people and if you reach out to them they will try to help but you can't really rely on them They are there's the group of people who are unsophisticated in which case
00:20:52without knowing it they probably will bring you harm another group of people who are sophisticated but bad who can't help themselves will want to touch and poke and prod and basically will somehow remove value from your company and those kind of your four worlds Um so from that
00:21:11perspective you know quote unquote dumb money like money without a bunch of favors and insurers and so on so forth attached to it is a lot better than money that comes from a sophisticated person or from someone who isn't very good who will do harm to your company
00:21:29The other thing i want to say is that in the scheme of things we i always have this concept called ninety five five focus on the ninety five percent five percent stuff is optimizing on the margins If you build a successful company successful product people will want to
00:21:47help you people will want to be introduced to you people will want to invest in you people want to do deals with you people want to buy you if you build failed product those things won't happen Your investors are really kind of five percent of that there on
00:22:04the margin the product whether it serves the customer where there's in a good mark kit those things are in the corps s o ah good and you know i've rarely seen the case who are good investor has either made or broken a company it's just a shame though
00:22:23because that five percent is a full time it almost seems like it's a full time commitment to get funding what does that mean it's it's a full time job so they let s so let's say there's two founders their typical advices one found it should always be fund
00:22:39raising oh no no no we would never give our start ups that advice so first of all what we like to tell our founder's is how do you do more with less pabu height has this saying and it's like it's called like ninety ten it's funny of ninety
00:22:56five five and we have ninety ten ninety ten is how doe i get ninety percent of what i want for ten percent of the work and so the real question you have to ask yourself is until you reach product market fit how do i spend as little money
00:23:12as possible with this small of a team is possible and ideally you do have one founder that's fundraising but ideally that founder is fundraising for two to three months that's it and that's them and then they collect a small amount of money and they try to figure out
00:23:30how do they get ninety percent of what they want for ten percent of the work let's talk about safe yes can you can you give ah can you define it and then we can talk about the pros and cons sure so why See safe is basically an investment
00:23:48document kind of like convertible note but better and what it says typically is this investor agrees to invest this much in your company for the option at some future point for that money to be converted into equity and it'll come either with a cap or a discount so
00:24:11i'm investing fifty two thousand at this cap ten ten let's say ten million are capped or offending fifty thousand at a fifteen percent discount and them it's structured exactly the same as convertible note the only difference is that it's simpler it's simpler because there's no term scribbled note
00:24:31has a term usually one or two years is not considered debt so doesn't show up on your balance you just that and it doesn't have an interest rate because it's not dead what one of the cons of that so why see basically designed this safe Andi was really
00:24:46funny the reason why so basically why c started to popularize convertible notes at really low equity i'm sorry really low interest rates on caps without discounts in our early days like within the first couple of years because we basically because we basically wanted to make a super simple
00:25:08document for founder's tuned us money i'm sorry to raise money without having to pay lawyers because a typical equity around even a small one can cost thousands tens of thousands of dollars so about i think maybe it was seven years in we found herself still having to explain
00:25:28ah a bunch of aspects of credible notes And we realized we could just create an even simple or investment vehicle that can solve some of the questions and problems and kind of conceptual issues right a credible note and so that's Why we created a safe from our perspective
00:25:46Safe sir just strictly better y c company's almost exclusively raison safe's So start ups around the world can understand that Now there are you know hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of companies and hundreds of investors who are familiar with safe so and so from you know and from
00:26:04my perspective there's absolutely no downside Um there's almost no case where i would tell someone to use anything other than a safe Because you can avoid the legal fees because you can avoid legal fees And because it's a simple or document And because it's not debt Let's take
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00:26:57going on in the tech world you need matter mark is just a great way to get a snapshot of a company's profile you can check out their growth score how much they've raised who they've raised form what states there and you know if they've been acquired how many
00:27:09employees they have similar cos is great to do competitive research and you can also see what their latest news is around that company it's a great application very simple it's free and all you need is your twitter log in so download the matter mark us up from the
00:27:26app store today hey guys welcome back to dorm room tycoon so michael he said something interesting one of your articles that in your twenties it's not a time of exploration is a time of working really hard do you want to hit the ground running where did you get
00:27:46that insight from so I think i got it from my ten year college reunion I don't think i necessarily let me see I think i always knew that I wanted to work hard in my twenties and i don't know why i knew that i just kind of knew
00:28:12that i wanted to work hard and have some money saved up before i wanted to get married and have a family and so in my mind it was always twenties work hard make money thirties family and then forties like what i want to do with my life big
00:28:28picture stuff and so when i went to my ten year reunion i basically saw a whole bunch of people who hadn't yet figured out what they wanted to do with their lives or who were just freaking out what they wanted to their lives but they were starting at
00:28:47almost zero and they were starting at almost zero at the same moment where they started having family and their expenses starting tohave to go up so is this disconnect were basically they were inexperienced the thing that they were working on but at the same time they had to
00:29:07generate more income and i tried to figure out why and what was going on and then when i realized was basically to core things one college is absolutely horrible at career services absolutely horrible just really disgusting and i went to a great college was horrible crew services um
00:29:27and two there's this sense that the twenties are kind of freedom years like that that's a gimme it's a freebie is the time to kind of chill and kind of be young and that there's no cost to that most important there's no cost to that but that's what
00:29:47everyone's doing so there's no tradeoff and i would argue that like you know college is actually much more like that for a lot of careers and a lot of things you know having that perfect gp out of college is not the you know and all be all it
00:30:05really is more of a place where you can have fun chill out layout lay back but your twenties they're definitely there's a weapon in college there's less of a trade off off i i wasn't particularly good student in college there was less of a trade off but in
00:30:20the twenties there's a huge trade off and so i just wanted to kind of get people to understand that because the people who kind of or understand that organically and spend their twenties um not only discovering what they want to do but spending a lot of time doing
00:30:35it when they were at that college re union they were in the driver's seat you know they had five six years of experience doing the thing that they want to do they had some money saved up they had the ability to kind of start a family without stress
00:30:53to perhaps buy a house or at least expand where they're living without stress and the other folks it was like men everything was coming on top of their head all of the same time I guess the question is then how do you find what you want to do
00:31:12I have a lot of friends Still is figuring that out and it The answer doesn't seem to arrive you know don't that's still figure it out i think like there's two there's like maybe three hints Is there a great answer No there's like three hints i can give
00:31:32one is you khun spend time in college talking to people and learning about jobs if your your colleges problem that can provide you with good career services but new knowing that going in means that you can devote resource is to developing that yourself and i would directly take
00:31:52those resources away from class You know if you took ten percent the time that you were doing class and class work and devoted it to just learning about different types of types of work i think that's a good trade off that's the first thing the second thing is
00:32:08that oftentimes career benefits folks who are willing to put in the effort in the time so there should be a bias on making a decision as opposed to a bias on finding the perfect fit Um i think that that's really really important and then the third thing is
00:32:28that oftentimes type of job is more important than where that job is They're types of people there there many many different companies have a wide selection of jobs and so instead of thinking about in the context of what company i want to work for which i think is
00:32:46a tricky thing to think about i think it's easier thing about what do i enjoy doing on a daily basis what could i do every day for like twenty years and like try to figure out the types of jobs where that's where those people do one of the
00:33:01reasons why i always thought i was going to go to law school and that was my whole plan and i ended up talking teo i end up having a boss who was extremely famous constitutional lawyer and i told her i want to go to law school but you
00:33:15know this is kind of what i imagined my life being afterwards and she was like you are an idiot you basically want to go to law school but you don't want to do the work that a lawyer does i was like yes she was like then don't go
00:33:27to law school because ninety seven percent of people who go to law school end up doing the work that lawyers do and that's not work you like and you know that then you should not go to law school and so i think that's extremely important that concept of
00:33:39like figure out what you enjoy doing every day and you can get insights on that in college like when you're in a student group what rule do you liketo have when you're in a team of people What role do you have in your dorm What role do you
00:33:51like one of things that come organically to you there's things that are hard and once you find roles that are in in that kind of spirit you can find them anywhere you know for me i didn't do justin tv because i had a passion about video I didn't
00:34:07go because of a passionate about live video I didn't do a passion because i i thought it was strictly a good idea I did it because i like working in small teams I like working really really hard with people who are working really really hard alongside me I
00:34:20liked building things and hey it started keeping the opportunity to do that So another way of saying that is that you don't necessarily have to find your soulmate job There is such a thing as a good fit but not a perfect fit There's Less tensions social camp So
00:34:39you raised money for social come but the exit was sixty million Hey not a billion not a billion No i would consider social came a failure I think maybe my bars it'll too high but yeah How does that play up when when it's sofus sixty million out so
00:35:04in terms of distributing that back to the investors what happens there Oh i mean i think the investors were were perfectly happy i mean most of the investors who invests in startups and most are investors were angel investors most of their investments go to zero so you know
00:35:21we're able to return most of our investors anywhere between twelve and three x within anywhere between six three to six months so you know that's a if you were kind of great that on the scale of like investments they've made that would be seen as a perfectly fine
00:35:39investment so not the thing that's going to make them rich but certainly not think it's going to piss them off yeah so you know i can say that i made all of my investors some amount of money and i mean it relatively quickly for them What are the
00:35:51stats that investors care about that i don't really give two craps about is they have this stat I'm basically like how fast you're able to return money on dso for them so she can was great on that stat because it was like you know we able to return
00:36:07three x your money in three months you know as opposed to return three extra money in three years you know that's kind of a good thing what happens when it when a company acquires you so also despise you And then you start working for also desk Um what
00:36:29happens when a company acquires you i think it's hard to answer that question because i think that strangely enough acquisitions are infrequent enough to be kind of in some ways unique and so sometimes the company acquires you for your product sometimes your company acquires youfor your talent sometimes
00:36:51for your technology you know it's really hard to kind of draw a general rule i think that the challenge when you get acquired is um how do you find a role within the company that allows you to be as productive as when you were in a start up
00:37:14and i think some people do that very successfully and some companies they're organized in a way that makes it very easy to that some people don't so you know a common question is on but something that you touched on that earlier is that we want to see traction
00:37:27well months if you need to get funding to get traction is that is that is that a bad start already i mean i think that you have to redefine the problem you have to be able to define the problem in a way well it's either have to redefine
00:37:43the problem or redefine traction so can you redefined the problem in a way where you can show that there's interest in what you want without building the product of your dream so you know i like to call this like down scoping your m v p the other way
00:37:59of thinking about it is that like um can you redefine what attraction is for a hardware company right if they're using a software companies definition of traction which would be you know many many people using the product well usually you have to be you have to have some
00:38:17money before you do that with hardware but in traction for a hardware company is a prototype he's a prototype that's being used by someone is protect that's been priced out is a crowd fund all of those things air accomplish a bull with not very much money so the
00:38:35the traction piece basically what i tell founders is they want to have leverage in the conversation with investors they don't want to rely on the investor falling in love with either them or their idea they want the investor to fear that perhaps there going to be a billion
00:38:49dollar company and perhaps they said no to a billion dollar company so you always want to go in with some former traction because that's what gives you leverage and i always equated to a video game it's like you know if you're playing a video game in one of
00:39:01those games that has like fancy armor and fancy weapons right Are you going to go into the boss fight with no armor and no weapons No and just hope that you're like wit and skill will get you through No you want to get the best armor the best
00:39:17weapons you possibly can get Well you know traction and big market strong technical team Those that if that's your armor that's your sword that's your like you know flying shoes like that's the stuff that helps you win that battle you need it I was dealing with best of
00:39:37the battle I i think if people had i think that investors have done too much of a good job marketing the idea that they're out there to help everyone which is false And so i think that if people mohr thought of it as a battle they'd be moving
00:39:55it towards the right balance You know if we were to kind of say like if we're trying to put an investor on the spectrum of like helpful fifth grade teacher versus like donald trump style asshole i think investors have convinced everyone that they're like one senior a centimeter
00:40:10away from helpful fifth grade teacher and like the reality is somewhere right in the middle so it helps if you push it mohr towards the donald trump's side Yeah you know i'm glad you've painted that realistic picture Yeah Do you have any advice for people that want to
00:40:30get into icy Everything that i've said is exactly why i tell people when they want to get no I see like those six things what you do how big a market is what's your traction what's unique and say why you're the team to do this What's your business
00:40:44model Those are the things that you want to have great answers for and you want to show execution on and then you want to go to communicate those clearly in your application Um a lot of other things are distractions A lot of other things You know how many
00:41:01alumni recommendations you get Or how many times are you able to talk to a partner All those other things That's optimizing for the five percent One thing we tell come cos is that if what i see is the difference between you doing in a company or not then
00:41:17you probably not gonna Even though i see you're executing on those six things A company is happening regardless of whether wise is gonna happen right they don't need Oh i see exactly like we want to be a situation where y c can be a accelerant but not a
00:41:38situation where wise he is helping someone to go from zero miles an hour Toe one mile an hour Waken help someone go from five to fifty But if you can't go five miles an hour without us then there's a really strong concern that you might not be able
00:41:57to go five miles an hour with us Yeah Coming to a close now what's the best way to get in touch with investors ought to start having that conversation with investors So i think that one thing people should understand about fundraising is that fundraising happens in parallel They
00:42:18shouldn't be trying to do one off meetings with investors kind of willy nilly If they want to fundraise they should devote a couple month period of time They should beginning warm introductions to investors from companies who've invest who they've invested in or they spiritual cold And they should
00:42:36do all of that outraged once they shouldn't meet all the investors all at the same time They should have this clear pitch They should have a clear ask They should raise what they can raise and then they should get backto work The startup that's in perpetual fundraising mode
00:42:54And i'm saying this out of personal experience because justin tv their various points where we were at the syrup that's running a perpetual process is basically hurting themselves Mmm Michael thank you so much for your time Thank you norris this's A lot of fun Thanks for having me

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