Full Transcript for What Is Divorce Mediation and How Does It Actually Work in Indiana?

[3:13] also realized we were maybe three weeks away from me asking her, can my children and I move [3:20] in next to you because my divorce left me pretty devastated. [3:25] And so my hope has always been to come at this work with the legal brain of how to help people [3:32] make very well informed decisions and move forward. [3:36] But also that I never want someone to go through what I went through, brain, and making [3:42] this not destructive, but a process that they can step into and come out well on the other [3:50] side. [3:51] Thank you for that. [3:52] Yeah. [3:53] Hillary, do you want to share your position on this and how you got involved in this kind [3:57] of work? [3:58] Sure, of course. [3:59] So completely different than tests. [4:01] I come from actually the human resources world. [4:04] So I was in the corporate human resources world at a large company in my previous life and [4:10] was there for a long, long time, always involved in the employee relationship side of things in [4:14] the conflict resolution world. [4:16] And really I enjoyed it. [4:18] Just really enjoy kind of learning about the conflict, working with other HR professionals [4:24] to resolve the conflicts within their departments, talk through different strategies, problems, [4:29] et cetera. [4:30] But frankly, I just got burned out of the corporate environment and really felt kind of boxed [4:34] in by corporate policies and worrying about having set precedents rather than just being able [4:40] to resolve the problem and do what's best for everybody involved. [4:44] So I stepped away from the corporate world, went back to school and got a master's in conflict [4:49] resolution and reconciliation, and through that program learned about family mediation and [4:54] decided that's really what I wanted to do was still resolve conflict, be in the conflict [4:59] resolution world, but on a more personal level, helping families, people going through [5:04] as Tess mentioned just through a personal crisis. [5:08] So that's really where I come at it from, not only the business side and the HR world, [5:12] but coming into it from a more personal standpoint of wanting to help resolve conflict. [5:18] You know, ladies, we have the head, the heart, the compassion, everything that we need when [5:23] we're going through one of the most emotional times in our lives. [5:27] We find in your company, your business, can you help us to better understand what is [5:33] divorce mediation and what helps it or what makes it different from the traditional divorce [5:39] process? [5:40] Well, talking about how they are the same first, both processes deal with the same issues. [5:50] Both processes handle divorce from start to finish. [5:55] Come up with agreements that are enforceable by a court. [6:00] Both processes deal with the same information, the same number of houses, bank accounts, debts, [6:08] the same seven days of a week for a parenting plan. [6:12] So that's how they're

the same. [6:15] They are different in that the court process is very intentionally adversarial. [6:21] It is A versus B. And attorneys, many attorneys take very seriously their job. [6:29] It is my job to win for my client. [6:34] Other attorneys do have a more collaborative eye. [6:37] They want to focus on the well-being of the family. [6:42] States I think have decided we need to also focus on the well-being of the family. [6:47] But the way they do that is to create a state definition of fair. [6:53] In Indiana, it is fair to divide property 50-50, regardless of what each person makes, regardless [7:02] of how each person is going to do moving forward, you divide everything 50-50. [7:07] You tell the parents, these are the days and times you get to see your children. [7:13] And it's kind of a one-size-fits-all approach. [7:17] I have bought a one-size-fits-all outfit. [7:20] It didn't work so well for me. [7:23] And that's where I think families find themselves. [7:26] These imposed, it'll the same thing will work for everybody doesn't work as they're trying [7:33] to care for children with special needs, or parents with odd work schedules, or financial [7:40] situations, which are very difficult. [7:44] And that's where mediation is different. [7:47] In mediation, we are following those same issues, and we're working with that same database. [7:53] But we are focused on providing information to the spouses to say, here's all the different [8:04] options you have for addressing the finances, or for creating a parenting plan. [8:11] Here are the pros and cons of each one of those options. [8:16] We make sure both people have all the information they need to make very well-informed decisions [8:23] and understand how those decisions are going to work moving forward, and then they make [8:29] the decisions for their situation. [8:32] They decide, here's what we're going to do with our money. [8:35] They decide, here's how we are going to care for our children. [8:40] Here's the timeline we're going to have for moving forward, and we put their decisions [8:46] into a legally binding agreement, file it with the court, it's enforceable by the court, [8:53] but the people who have to live the decisions are making the decisions, and they're doing [8:58] so in the privacy of our office, not in the public arena of a court here. [9:04] Would you say that it's fair to call it communication assistance, as I'm listening to what a pleasant [9:11] experience as you're parting and separating all of your belongings, and still trying to [9:17] make a life as you move forward, and you're there to help people communicate through that process [9:22] rather than creating this adversarial position. [9:26] Hillary, do you want to chime in on that? [9:29] Absolutely. [9:30] One thing we talk a lot about with clients is in the traditional adversarial approach or [9:37] process, a lot of times the messages don't talk to each other. [9:41] Let me, as your attorney, do all the talking, whereas in our process, we're forcing that communication [9:50] because they are the decision makers, they're the ones that have to live with these decisions [9:54] moving forward, and especially if they're parents, you still have to co-parent together. [9:59] So not only are you communicating in the legal process or you need to communicate, we're [10:04] also kind of setting that foundation of how are you going to continue communicating going [10:08] forward when you're still co-parents, because you're going to still have to be co-parents. [10:13] So yeah, we're absolutely working through a lot of the communication issues in the mediation [10:18] process that we hope carry forward, especially in a co-parenting relationship. [10:22] Let's jump into that test. [10:24] What does the mediation process usually look like from the very first meeting through the [10:29] final agreement? [10:30] Well, there are a couple of layers to that. [10:32] So I'll do one and let Hillary do the other. [10:36] The legal timeline is in Indiana, divorce starts with the filing of what's known as a petition [10:43] for dissolution, a petition as a request, so it's a request to the court to dissolve this marriage. [10:50] In Indiana, a judge cannot grant a divorce in less than 60 days. [10:58] That litigation process almost never gets done in less than a year, and often can go two, [11:05] three years, but you cannot get done in less than 60 days. [11:11] And so the timeline for people to be thinking about is, you know, they're not going to file [11:18] for divorce and get divorced next week. [11:21] In our mediation process, many couples have come to their entire agreement within that [11:28] 60 days. [11:29] And so we wait until day 61, file their agreement, and they move forward. [11:35] Other couples do need longer to navigate making the decisions. [11:39] We never want to rush people. [11:41] We want to make sure they are confident in their decisions before they become legally binding. [11:47] But we're also helping them, as you noted earlier, communicate well and come to those decisions [11:55] once they have the information they need. [11:57] And so you can talk about the actual. [12:00] Yeah. [12:01] In our mediation process, so there's kind of two versions of mediation, at least in Indiana. [12:07] There's called shuttle mediation, which is usually where one client's in one room, usually [12:11] they have an attorney, and then the other client is in another room, usually with an attorney. [12:15] And the mediator is shuttling back and forth. [12:17] And typically if it's a court-ordered mediation, that's the style of mediation that is practice. [12:22] And it's usually kind of called a marathon mediation, where you start at 9 a.m. in the morning [12:27] and you go for as long as it takes till either both people reach an agreement and they sign [12:33] that agreement or somebody walks away and says, I'm done. [12:36] So we can go six, eight, 10

plus hours until, again, somebody either says, yes, we're reaching [12:43] an agreement or somebody walks away. [12:45] That is not how we practice. [12:46] So the way we practice is we meet in two hour sessions. [12:50] So we use that two hours. [12:53] We come to as many decisions as we can during that session. [12:57] And then the number of sessions that each couple needs is purely dependent on how quickly they're [13:02] making decisions, how much time they need to make those decisions. [13:06] But what we tend to tell perspective clients is that especially if you have children and [13:13] you're divorcing or legally separating, it's usually anywhere between four and eight sometimes [13:19] nine sessions that is needed for the entire mediation process. [13:24] If there's no children, so you don't have the parenting side of things, or it's a very simple, [13:31] non-complex divorce, it can really be a few sessions, but generally we haven't seen less than [13:38] three sessions. [13:39] That's where we kind of average that for eight, nine sessions for each couple. [13:46] And I imagine that you see a lot of issues come up. [13:51] What are some of the more common issues? [13:53] I know children and finances are probably one and two, but what are some of the more common [13:57] issues that couples usually need to work through during that mediation session or those sessions? [14:05] A huge issue for families, especially if there are children, is the house. [14:12] In the current housing market, with interest rates being much higher than they'd been for a long time, [14:20] it is incredibly difficult for one spouse to refinance in their own name and also buy out the [14:30] equity of the other spouse. [14:32] It just puts the house payment beyond what either person can do. [14:36] So we've helped people get pretty creative around how do you keep the house so children [14:44] can stay in their school and provide some stability financially. [14:50] So the spouse that's not staying in the house has a place to live and also parent. [14:56] That's probably, I would say, the biggest challenge that parents with children are facing [15:04] right now. [15:06] Do you think of others? [15:08] No, I think just kind of going back to the communication side of things, is there's often been a really [15:13] big or significant breakdown in communication and so when they come to us, we see that breakdown [15:19] and so really a lot of it is, how do we help bridge that communication gap? [15:25] But yeah, those are kind of the two biggest that come to mind. [15:27] And I know from my experience, many people assume mediation only works if both spouses already agree [15:34] on everything, can mediation still work when there's conflict or tension between the couple? [15:40] Absolutely, that's what mediators are trained to do, mediators are and as an attorney, I cannot [15:49] use the word expert, I want to be really clear on that, but we are trained in conflict resolution [15:56] skills. The training is how do you take people that are in very different places with very different [16:04] ideas about what should happen and help them come together, find agreement that they both can live [16:12] with. And we do that by listening and helping each person uncover not just the position they have [16:20] because attorneys in the litigation process tend to battle positions. What we are doing is saying, [16:29] what is the underlying desire? What is the underlying goal? What is the underlying fear that this person [16:38] has that we can address and once those are communicated well, we can often offer solutions, [16:48] but I am surprised by the number of times when one spouse says, here's what I'm trying to get at. [16:55] The other one goes, oh, I didn't realize that's what you were thinking. What if we did this and [17:02] they are creating the solutions and that's a beautiful moment. [17:06] I like that you create the safe space for people to have those conversations. [17:10] What helps mediation conversations stay productive when emotions are running high? Do you have some [17:16] tips or tricks, a little secret magic that you can share with us? [17:20] Gosh, test is probably better to answer this question only because I just based off of my experience [17:26] in my background and probably just my overarching personality, I tend to be very direct in the sense [17:32] of we have this decision to make, we need to come back to and circle back around to the decision. [17:38] Not that I'm trying to dismiss emotions or dismiss feelings, but I tend to bring that emotional [17:46] conflict level down pretty quickly in the sense of, listen, this is your time and we want to be [17:53] as productive as much as possible. So in order to be productive, we still have to make these decisions. [17:58] So it's just bringing it back to the actual kind of decision that we're looking at in the options [18:04] that we have. Again, I want to be clear, I don't try to dismiss or discredit anybody's emotions or [18:10] feelings, but just based off of me, I tend to kind of shut that down pretty quickly to bring it back [18:15] to the decision because I want the session to be as productive as possible, but I'll let test [18:20] speak because again, she's got more tips and tools that I am learning from constantly from her. [18:24] We tend to and Hillary does it very well as well. We ask what questions? [18:29] Absolutely. What about that is important to you or what about this proposal that you're not [18:36] agreeing to? What is of concern? What are the limits of that? What of that can you accept? What would [18:44] you offer as a change? Those what questions can again get away from positions and down to what's [18:49] underneath? We also offer the opportunity to speak with us one on one. So if somebody's got a lot [18:55] going on in their head, that either they don't feel safe sharing with the other person or they're not [19:00] sure how to say it without creating more tension, once they're able to get those thoughts out, [19:06] often we can come up with other factors to help people come to agreement. And we can all take a break [19:13] it's not unusual to say, you know, how but would you we are our office is very close to a park. [19:20] And so we can say, would you like to just go take five minutes and walk in the park and just kind [19:25] of have a moment? And it's a wonderful resource for people who are feeling a little overwhelmed [19:31] and just need to breathe deeply for a minute or two. I get a sense that it's a very peaceful process [19:38] working with both of you because I know how calm I'm feeling at the moment listening to how you walk [19:43] through this with folks. Really, truly, I just I can sense that energy and that feeling of how this [19:50] would be much healthier for both parties involved as well as the children to be able to walk through this [19:56] process in this way. So thank you so much for your insights today. Thank you. That's it for today's [20:03] episode of divorce without destruction mediation podcast with resolution mediation. If you'd like to [20:10] learn more about test world and Hilary Sharpe Mac and the mediation services they offer across [20:16] Indiana, visit resolution mediationin.com. Thank you for listening and don't forget to subscribe, [20:24] leave a review and share the show with someone who may need it. Come on back next time. We'll see you [20:30] there. Thanks for watching. Be sure to hit that like and subscribe button and leave us a review in [20:40] the comments.