TRANSCRIPT 🔗
Jackie Ferguson - 00:00:10:
Welcome to Diversity: Beyond the Checkbox, the podcast where bold ideas meet inspiring stories brought to you by The Diversity Movement. I'm Jackie Ferguson, author, investor, business leader, and human rights advocate. Each episode, I sit down with trailblazers, game changers, and boundary pushers to uncover their journeys, insights, and strategies for success. Whether it's innovation, inclusion, or personal growth, we're here to ignite meaningful conversations that empower and inspire. Thank you for joining me today. Let's get started. Today, we're joined by Kenya Fairley, Planning and Partnerships Associate Director of Trust and Safety at Bumble Inc.. With over 20 years of experience in trauma-informed, survivor-centered advocacy, Kenya works to ensure online safety and prevent gender-based violence across Bumble's platforms. Kenya, thank you for joining me today.
Kenya Fairley, Bumble - 00:01:12:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here and have this conversation.
Jackie - 00:01:16:
Me too. I'm so interested in your background and what you're doing with Bumble. Your career has been dedicated to ending gender-based violence. What inspired you to focus on survivor-centered advocacy and how has that shaped your career journey?
Kenya - 00:01:34:
Yeah. So it's an interesting story. As part of completing my master's degree in counseling and adult education, I completed an internship at a local women's center, which was focused on helping low-income, newly single, or homeless women to secure safe, affordable housing. I initially went to pursue my master's because I wanted to work with children, and I had every intent of becoming an elementary school guidance counselor and supporting young people. And when I did this internship working directly with women and their families, of course, it just became such a passion for me. It really ignited my advocacy, and I became so committed to wanting to support women to have agency over their lives, to make their own decisions, and then also being able to see how that impacted their children and how that gave them the strength and fortitude to also overcome difficult circumstances or to just have better opportunities. Because their moms were getting the support that they needed. And ever since then, that has been my soapbox, is how women can be better for themselves and have better because they deserve it, and that their destiny doesn't have to be tied to anyone else. They have the power within themselves. And so I really... Enjoy this work because it just feeds into my passion.
Jackie - 00:02:57:
I love that. That's so amazing. And such important work, you know, that women are at the center. Of the family, of our economy. And so to empower them, to make sure that they understand that they have agency over their lives affects every part of our society. And I think that's amazing. Kenya, in your role at Bumble, you oversee partnerships to protect online communities. What are some of the key initiatives that you've led to make Bumble a safer place?
Kenya - 00:03:31:
Yeah. So it's been great coming to Bumble. There's so much opportunity and so many amazing things that we can do in the technology space. And as we're supporting our members to create those connections online that they're looking for. And so a big part of what I get to do on safety is to make sure that when our members are coming into our app, they feel that it's a safe space, that they can be vulnerable. They're going to be supported, protected and that they can engage with others, whether it's for a romantic connection or for friendship, that they can engage and feel like it's a safe space. And so some of the things I've been really proud of in the work that I do, because it touches on so many different issues. But some of the things I'm really proud of that I'll call out. One is we have this amazing partnership with Chayn. Chayn is a global nonprofit that's run by survivors and allies. From around the world. So they approach their work through a very diverse perspective. They approach it through a multi multidimensional, multilingual feminist perspective and all of the work that they do. And they create online resources to support the healing of survivors of gender based violence. So with Chayn, we've done a couple of things. One is our Bloom program, which is our program for our members to support anyone that's experienced sexual harassment, sexual violence, or relationship abuse. And we also provide educational support and courses for safe dating along all aspects of the dating journey. And so with Chayn, we've created online educational courses. Our members can engage in one-to-one conversation with the counselors at Chayn about what they're learning. They can receive affirmational messages for that encouragement and motivation throughout the week from Chayn. And in some cases, when it's necessary, we also provide free online therapeutic support for our members who may need it. So Chayn is a really great wraparound service that we can offer to our members. They've also worked internally with our safety team as well. So the past couple of years, we've ran a program called DIA. And DIA is like a lamp that you may have to kind of shed light in the darkness. And so through our DIA program, they've worked with our safety team to teach them about vicarious trauma because the work that they do is so critical to ensuring that our platform is safe. And it can also potentially cause stress and burnout and maybe, you know, potentially some trauma for our team. So we do a really great job of making sure that we can provide them with the wellness supports that they need so that these things that they may see, they could be really sensitive content that is not impacting them in a negative way. So that's definitely one of our greatest partnerships that I'm really proud of and happy about the work that we're doing there.
Jackie - 00:06:20:
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That's amazing. And it's so needed, right? It's, you know, online dating is more popular than ever, but safety remains a concern. Let's talk, Kenya, about your top tips to keep people safe while they're dating online.
Kenya - 00:06:36:
Yeah, this is also a great topic that we tend to talk quite a bit about because I think there are different opportunities and things that folks can do that are easily accessible. So I would say one of the first things is to scrutinize the profiles that you may see. So you want to look at the profiles for completeness. You want to look at them for authenticity. We do have tools that help us, such as our deception detector. It's a tool that we have that helps us to detect scam, spam and fake profiles. And we are able to remove a large amount of that content before our members are even exposed to it. But we always want to make sure that as you're looking for a match on our platform, that you are also vetting those profiles. You want to make sure that this person appears to be who they are, that they have completed at minimum, completed the information that's available on their profile. We have interest badges that can help explain. You know what someone is interested in and what's important to them. So first scrutinize the profile. The second thing I would say is to use the safety features that we have within our app. We have lots of great safety features to help our members be able to connect without going too fast too soon. So one thing, look for that photo verification. There should be an indication that that person has gone through our verification process so that you know that we have done a check to make sure this person is who they are. We also have in-app video chat and voice calls so you can communicate with your new connection without having to give out your personal phone number, your email address or anything like that until you've built a trusting rapport with that person. So the video chat and the voice call. Excellent. Those are excellent safety features. And we also have private detector. Private detector is what we use in order to help prevent cyber flashing. So, of course, we're dating app. So people will have at times very intimate, sexually explicit conversations. And we're not prohibiting that. But we do want to make sure that if someone is sending you a lewd sexual image that you want to receive it. So with private detector, we can detect that an image may be sexual in nature, will automatically blur that image. So when you receive it, you have the choice again, the agency to decide, do you want to see this image? Are you consenting to seeing this image? Is it within the context of the conversation? You know, or is this something that you didn't expect and you don't want? Then without having to see the image, you can immediately block and report that person. For sending you sexually harassing images. So private detector is amazing. And then that leads into my third point that I would say is important is to report users who behave badly. So when we can get reports from our members, not only does that mean that we can help support you because we don't want anyone to have a negative experience on our platform. But it also helps give us information about what additional changes we can make to the platform. You know, how often are these types of things occuring? Is there something that we can do to strengthen the integrity of our online community? Is there more education we can do with our members about what's expected on the platform? So reporting is really good. And then the last thing I'll say in terms of what our members or anyone who wants to try out Bumble, things that you can do to be safe. I would say two things here in this last point. We have a podcast called Give Me A Buzz, which is an excellent podcast to listen to. And you can learn about the latest dating trends. You can hear other stories about what people are experiencing and also just have time to think about what the dating journey is like by listening to some of the stories and the guests that we have on our podcast. And you can also read our blog called The Bumble Buzz. On The Bumble Buzz, we talk a lot about all things dating. So you can read about success stories. You can learn more about our safety features. You can hear about new things that are happening that we're doing across the platform and all the different locations around the world where we are. And it's just a great way to engage with understanding how to use the app and connecting with our community.
Jackie - 00:10:50:
Kenya, I think that's so great because a lot of people who are getting back into dating, right, or getting into dating, when they think about online dating, there's all these horror stories and things that you hear. But I think that especially with Bumble, there are these safety features that are available that people sometimes don't realize are available. And I think that's so great that whether it's this podcast or your podcast or your blog, that they can talk about and learn about. The safety features and the ways to protect themselves as they're exploring dating and having relationships with people online.
Kenya - 00:11:33:
You're absolutely right. And I think even working in safety, I have to remind myself that the world of Bumble users is so much bigger than the very small percentage of people that are not doing the right thing. You know, it can be easy to think everyone's behaving in this way, but there are so many people that come onto our platform. I use Bumble. I've met people. I have great friendships. I have met people and dated for some time and have those great connections. So it really can be successful, even though there are people who don't always make the most appropriate choices. And I hope that anyone listening would feel empowered to do a polite thank you. No, thank you.
Jackie - 00:12:14:
Right.
Kenya - 00:12:14:
Enjoy getting to know you. But we're not
the best match. And, you know, good luck on your good luck on your dating journey.
Jackie - 00:12:21:
Absolutely. Kenya, while we're on that topic, right, and it sounds like that's part of agency. Let's talk about that for just a moment. Tell us what your interpretation of agency is. What does that mean? What should women understand? Because society sometimes tells us a lot of things that doesn't give us power over our lives, our decisions. Tell us what agency is. And as women, what should we know? What should we understand? What should we be thinking about from the perspective of? Taking agency over our lives.
Kenya - 00:13:02:
Yeah, I love that question. And I love the lead in because when I think of agency, I really think about it as things, life is not just happening to you, but you do have control over a number of different things that you can help dictate what's best for you and what you want for yourself on your journey in this life. And so I think part of agency is understanding and recognizing what is within your sphere of control, because even when it feels that there are moments where you have no power. Ultimately, you do have power over how you respond to things that happen. You have power over what is a part of your universe, what's a part of your life, who you build relationships with. So things may happen, but you ultimately always have a choice in how you want to manage that situation, respond to that situation, and be able to continuously take in more information to help make informed decisions about what's in your own best interest. And then being able to carry that out.
Jackie - 00:14:07:
Love that. Thank you for sharing that, Kenya. With technology being such a major player in modern relationships. What unique challenges do online dating platforms face when it comes to user safety?
Kenya - 00:14:24:
That can sometimes be a tricky one, but we definitely try to balance out a few things. Through a lot of the research that we've done, because oftentimes at Bumble, we're either conducting our own internal research or we commission research with our external partners. The research shows that globally respondents cited fake profiles and the risk of scams as their top concerns with online dating. And so this is part of what I was speaking about a moment ago with our deception detector, which is a tool that we have to help us detect and remove those profiles before our members see it. But we have to be mindful that that remains a concern for our members, whether they've been on the platform or if they're new to the platform. And that can cause anxiety and lead people to miss out on meaningful connections that could positively impact their lives. And so we want it to be and remain at the forefront of fighting this type of online abuse. So since our inception, we always center women's safety and women's experience because we know that when we make our platform safer for women, we make it safer for everyone that's on there. And so we continuously are developing innovative technology that we can use to help do that. And we're also concurrently working on policy changes with various governments in order to make sure that we can advocate for stricter laws to help hold those bad offenders accountable. When they're doing those things on our platform. So we continuously work to create a safe environment for anyone that comes onto our platform because we really do care about this issue. It's not something that we just put in a headline. Internally, we're consistently doing the work because women's safety is of utmost importance to us. And we certainly want to do our part to help prevent gender-based violence from happening across our platforms.
Jackie - 00:16:16:
Absolutely. That's fantastic. Tanya, Bumble has been a pioneer in safety features, and we've heard a little bit about them, like the photo verification and anti-harassment policies. How do you approach integrating safety without compromising the user experience?
Kenya - 00:16:34:
Yeah. So from our viewpoint, ensuring safety across all of our platforms as part of the user experience, it doesn't compromise it at all. It ultimately enhances the user experience. So you don't have to trade off making sure that your members feel safe in order to do the next product launch or get out the next greatest thing. Safety, and for us, we focus and prioritize on safety by design. That is a key part of our duty of care to our members. So we work diligently to proactively detect potential harms. We want to reduce their impact. And then we also work to deploy features that make our products safer for our daters to engage. You know, and especially when seeking out meaningful connections, you want to be able to feel that you can be vulnerable, that you can be open, and you have to be safe in order to do that. So we really work to make sure that our members can feel that way when they're chatting one-on-one and they're getting to know other people on our platform. We want to make sure that they can be open, they can be vulnerable, and ensuring safety is a key part of that. So you don't have to compromise the user experience at all.
Jackie - 00:17:43:
I love that. And you're 100% right. To develop a relationship or connection with someone, there has to be some level of vulnerability. So you need to first feel safe. Right? In order to do that. And I think Bumble's doing such a great job with that. Thank you for that. Before Bumble, Kenya, you worked within the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, supporting domestic violence shelters and national hotlines. How has that government experience influenced your work in the tech sector?
Kenya - 00:18:17:
I was a proud federal servant. So I really enjoyed working at the Administration for Children and Families at the Department of Health and Human Services. And there's so much creativity and resourcefulness that has to happen when working across federal government. It
really takes interagency stakeholder engagement and collaboration in order to really make sure that there are initiatives that can be successful and that can be scaled across the country. Because as I'm sure you know, things look so different from the East Coast to the West Coast, from the North to the South. There's so many different types of communities and states and cultures that folks have. And so you want to make sure that when you're working on behalf of everyone in the country that you can do things that appeal to a wide number of folks. And sometimes you may get a great idea or something innovative, and that conversation can start over a cup of coffee. So one thing I learned is building relationships. And being present with others in different departments and different agencies and really showing up to build those connections is so vital and important. And that's very similar to how we work here in Bumble. We work across multiple functions in order to do what's best for our members. And we want to make sure that we have a cohesive approach to everything that we're doing. So we work across different functions and different disciplines to really elevate the issue of safety and make sure that everyone is working towards our shared mission.
Jackie - 00:19:45:
Amazing.
Kenya - 00:19:46:
Yeah.
Jackie - 00:19:48:
Survivor-centered advocacy is at the core of your work. Can you share an example, Kenya, of how this perspective has shaped policies or partnerships at Bumble? And you talked about one already.
Kenya - 00:20:01:
I feel like a big part of what I do is not only socializing the issue of safety externally, but also doing that internally across multiple different teams that we have here. And so that really creates the opportunity for me to be an ambassador around safety and to think about innovative ways that we can highlight and think about not only the physical safety of our members, but also the emotional and digital safety that they have. And so one partnership that comes to mind where I've been able to work across our social impact team, our public policy team, our engineering department, we've come together to do work with an organization called the Survivor Hub. And the Survivor Hub was founded in New South Wales, Australia. And it's a survivor-led initiative that harnesses the knowledge and lived experiences of survivors to support, inform, and empower people of all genders who are impacted by sexual violence. And we were their first corporate sponsor. And in support of that work, we have been able to help them strengthen and expand and operationalize their current programming. These are an amazing group of young women who are also pursuing higher education while running this organization. And they have meetups that they do in the community. They do a lot of education and empowerment for survivors who may be moving through the legal system. And they bring a lot of connectivity for folks who can feel very alone in what they've experienced. And so with our support, we've been able to help them do additional capacity building and really expand their work to a wider group of survivors in Australia. And so that just shows that our reach at Bumble is not only limited to the United States or to the UK. We also work globally to impact change for everyone that's using our platform. And so that just mirrors the work that I've done previously, in Federal government. That I'm able to do also at Bumble is to think more holistically about how we think of those that may not always be in the forefront but are doing deeply important work and that are really making change within their communities.
Jackie - 00:22:12:
I think that's fantastic. And one of the things that I'm hearing throughout our conversation, Kenya, is that there are resources if you are a victim of violence and have experienced violence. There are resources no matter where you are. And you've talked about multiple resources that you partner with all over the world. So I just want to remind folks that if you have experienced a traumatic situation or your a survivor of violence, there are resources out there for you. Thanks, Kenya, for sharing some of the ones that Bumble works with. That's fantastic.
Kenya - 00:22:53:
No, thank you for giving me the chance to speak about it. And just one more I want to say, too, that I didn't get a chance to touch on, but another partnership that's been a really fantastic experience is we've also worked with Movember. And Movember is focused on men's mental health as well as research into prostate and testicular cancer. But what we've been able to do with them is to join their community of practice where they're focused on understanding young men, young men's online behavior, how they're influenced by online content. Because we also want to make sure that while we're thinking about the safety needs of women on our platforms, we're also thinking about how we can be better engaged with young men who come onto our platform as well. And so we've been doing some amazing work with Movember, and we'll be talking more about that later this year. But that's a great partnership that we have as well.
Jackie - 00:23:43:
That's fantastic. That's awesome. Kenya, many online platforms struggle with striking the balance between free speech and user protection. How does Bumble navigate this challenge?
Kenya - 00:23:58:
So the way in which we think about that is we do want to support our members and we encourage the type of community that we want to build on our platform. So we really encourage a lot of positive communication and we want to make sure that through any online connections that our members are having, that they know that we're promoting kindness, respect. Being genuine and being authentic in those interactions. And so at the time that our members join our platform, they do sign a pledge to behave in a respectful and kind manner. And we also have on the profile that you
can put on a number of different interest badges. You can identify the things that are most important to you. And that may also help you in your search for the connection that you're looking for, because you want to align with someone who has very similar interests and beliefs that you do. So there are opportunities for our members to express that. And we also keep at the forefront that we want to make sure that we protect our members from any type of identity-based hate or fetishization, emotional abuse, or any type of targeted discriminatory language. So when our members sign up on the app and they sign that pledge to be respectful and kind, they also agree to our community guidelines and our community guidelines prohibit that type of really nasty, targeted behavior. That could be unsettling and is really not welcome in our community when, when we have users on Bumble. So that's one thing we do. Another thing is that we conduct a safety risk assessment for new products, for new features. So we can understand what potentially could go wrong here. We want to think about those things and do an assessment of how we can either completely mitigate that as a concern or reduce any type of risk of harm to our members before we launch, the new product or the new feature. And so that's something that really helps us inform how we can make sure that we are building and putting out the best product available to our members is by making sure that we're doing an assessment and being proactive about preventing these types of harms before they even happen.
Jackie - 00:26:07:
That's fantastic. Kenya, what do you see as the future of online safety and dating apps and what innovations or policies excite you the most?
Kenya - 00:26:19:
Well, so we're very proud of our work here on trust and safety at Bumble. And we're happy about what we've been able to achieve to date. And we continue to keep women's safety as a priority for the work that we're doing. And with that being said, we're also committed to innovation and understanding the importance of evolving with the latest issues and trends and things that may be coming up. So, for example, in June of last year, we added a new option for our members to report profiles with AI generated photos and videos. Because again, when folks are putting up images and photos that are AI generated, some of which are very easy, you can tell that this is not that person. We want to make sure that our members can report those types of images because it doesn't lead to an authentic, genuine connection when you can't really see who the person is or they're presenting themselves in a way that is completely different than who they actually are. So with that update, that helped us put in new safeguards that uphold our mission to foster meaningful relationships. And it helped us continue to put women at the center of our experiences so they can have the dating journey that they want and that they hope for while they're using our platform. And then we'll also be launching some new features soon that will also help make our apps better for our members to have deeper, more authentic dating experiences.
Jackie - 00:27:42:
That's fantastic. You know, that's one of the things that I hadn't thought of is AI, being introduced into this online dating situation. Right. And so I'm so excited that you're already thinking about that and putting protections in place around that, because that's just one of the things that, that you see, right. You can do these AI generated photos and professional photos and this and that, but, um, you can also make alterations to who you are. Right?
Kenya - 00:28:16:
Absolutely.
Jackie - 00:28:17:
And, um, that's not what, what you want because right. We're looking for relationships that are authentic and genuine and real, right. And connections that are real. So I think that's, that's great that you're already thinking through how AI interrupts, right. The, the dating process. That's amazing.
Kenya - 00:28:37:
Absolutely. Because I think, you know, even as someone who uses dating apps myself, it can feel really hurtful for someone to misrepresent themselves to you. And a severely AI generated image completely gives you a different perspective of who that person may be. And you really do want to have those deep, meaningful connections with the person that can just be who they are. And ultimately at some point, if things go well, you're going to meet in person. So I'm not sure what the outcome is that's expected with the AI photo, but we do have those safeguards in place because it's evolving technology, you know, and sometimes people do want to try to put forward their best selves and they think enhancing a photo does that, but it doesn't always have the impact that they may think it's going to have.
Jackie - 00:29:24:
Absolutely. Kenya, as we think about the next generation of leaders in advocacy, tech, and social impact, what advice do you offer to help them drive meaningful change?
Kenya - 00:29:38:
There are a few things that come to mind here. And I would say one of the first ones is that there continues to be a lack of cultural diversity within the tech industry. So being present, being your authentic self, bringing your expertise and experience to the table is invaluable. It really is invaluable no matter where you go. And one thing that I've also found or that I tend to think about here in the tech space is that we use technology so much all day, every day. It's such an integrated part of our lives. But if you think about if there's something that isn't working well for you or that you don't like, there's a tech company that's trying to solve that problem. And they need your experience. They need your niche experience. And they need your niche perspective to come to the table to help inform how we're solving the problem in the future. So I would certainly say that transitioning into working in the tech space and bringing that
diverse perspective and your unique background and experience can really not only help expand your worldview, but it can also help maximize the impact on issues that you care about. So it really gives you the opportunity to speak more deeply and more passionately about issues and things like that that you care about. And a lot of tech companies, even as I said about Bumble, they have a global reach. So just think about all the different people around the world, all the different cultures and communities. Everyone has a unique perspective they can bring to that. And so being able to be open in that way and bring that experience to the tech industry is amazing. And the last thing I would say is just getting comfortable operating and performing within an often ambiguous environment is also a great skill to have. Because a tech industry, it changes pretty quickly. And just being able to be flexible and adaptable and not always have every single answer, but being willing to help jump in to find the solutions is really important.
Jackie - 00:31:38:
Absolutely. And Kenya, let's explore the flip side of that, right? What advice do you give to leaders? Who need to foster environments where there's more diversity, there's more voices at the table that are being considered. What's your advice for leaders?
Kenya - 00:31:56:
What advice would I give to leaders? You know, what I've seen some really great leaders do is that they bring you along for the journey. So oftentimes over communicating, in a number of different ways can be really helpful because it's so easy for individuals and different functions across the business to become siloed. And so while you think that you're communicating out because you've sent one message or you've sent one email that has a lot of information, everyone is working to do their best and they're working diligently. And so at times over communicating the same message in a few different forums and also making sure that you're giving information that's helpful to everyone that's either working together, working on a project or just need to have a better understanding of the mission and where we're going and why we're all doing what we're doing can be really helpful because you want to feel like you're a part of the mission. You're a part of achieving something great. And so I would definitely say continuing to be open in the communication and making sure that you're bringing all of your employees along with you as part of the team on the journey to celebrate.
Jackie - 00:33:07:
Absolutely. Absolutely. That's such great advice. Communication is at the center of business, no matter what your industry. And I think it's also goes to trust and relationships within the professional environment. We were talking about personal environment before, but it's also at the center of the professional environment. So I think that's fantastic. Kenya, this has been wonderful. What would you like to leave our listeners with today?
Kenya - 00:33:38:
I think if I could say one thing that if folks don't take anything else away from this, if they can take away that you do have agency and you do have choices over how your life is going and the direction your life is headed in. And you may not accomplish everything right now today, but you can continue to make significant strides towards your hopes and your dreams in order to get there.
Jackie - 00:34:04:
Absolutely. Such great advice. Kenya, thank you for spending some time with me today. This has been a great conversation. I appreciate you.
Kenya - 00:34:11:
No, thank you so much.
Jackie - 00:34:17:
Thank you for listening to Diversity: Beyond the Checkbox. This episode is produced by Earfluence. If you enjoyed this conversation, share it with someone who inspires you and leave us a review to help others discover the show. Follow us on Instagram or LinkedIn to join our growing community of change makers. Until next time, keep pushing boundaries and building a world where everyone belongs. I'm Jackie Ferguson. Take care of yourself and each other.