Full Transcript for Episode 153 Fostering Student Engagement & Reflection in Spanish Language Learning Part 1

and using Digication in 36 00:02:12,075 --> 00:02:16,814 a number of different ways, both for yourself personally and in the classroom 37 00:02:16,844 --> 00:02:22,715 and As well as part of your research, um, and your students are developing their 38 00:02:22,715 --> 00:02:26,695 own kind of ePortfolios, documenting what they're learning in your courses. 39 00:02:26,745 --> 00:02:28,835 So we have lots to chat about today. 40 00:02:29,255 --> 00:02:32,434 And, um, I thought I'd kick things off just with you telling our 41 00:02:32,434 --> 00:02:34,435 listeners a little bit about. 42 00:02:34,770 --> 00:02:41,380 Your journey and how you became a senior lecturer in Spanish at UVA. 43 00:02:42,740 --> 00:02:43,230 Yeah. 44 00:02:43,270 --> 00:02:43,850 Well, thanks. 45 00:02:43,950 --> 00:02:45,940 And thanks for this opportunity. 46 00:02:46,250 --> 00:02:46,620 Yeah. 47 00:02:46,739 --> 00:02:51,160 My, my journey wasn't quite as linear as other people's journey. 48 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,790 And when I was 18 years old, if you would have told me I would be sitting here 49 00:02:55,790 --> 00:02:58,280 now, I would have never believed you. 50 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:04,250 Um, I grew up in the South, deep South of Louisiana, near Baton Rouge, and 51 00:03:05,530 --> 00:03:10,170 College really wasn't something that I was in going to do, you know, so 52 00:03:10,170 --> 00:03:13,760 I started college right out of high school, but it didn't really work out. 53 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,460 So I took some time off and started doing some construction work. 54 00:03:17,469 --> 00:03:19,690 There's a lot of construction workers in my family. 55 00:03:20,220 --> 00:03:23,440 And I quickly saw there's a lot of Spanish being used on 56 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,020 these various carpentry crews. 57 00:03:25,020 --> 00:03:30,120 And so I started just trying to pick it up, just trying to speak, 58 00:03:30,310 --> 00:03:33,449 just trying to speak and over the, over the development of a couple 59 00:03:33,450 --> 00:03:37,329 of years, I got pretty good with it and I was very passionate about it. 60 00:03:37,700 --> 00:03:40,630 And so I decided to re enroll in college. 61 00:03:40,630 --> 00:03:41,560 And that was a, a. 62 00:03:41,885 --> 00:03:43,955 An excellent idea to have that break. 63 00:03:43,955 --> 00:03:47,885 So I was kind of a non traditional student and I majored in Spanish at 64 00:03:47,885 --> 00:03:52,465 the University of Louisiana, Monroe, and did exceptionally well there. 65 00:03:52,495 --> 00:03:57,045 And then applied for graduate school and went to the University of South Carolina 66 00:03:57,384 --> 00:04:03,504 where, um, I was just a wonderful program, a very pedagogical and applied linguistic 67 00:04:03,504 --> 00:04:07,665 sort of angle that, that they have opportunities to, to learn about there. 68 00:04:07,665 --> 00:04:14,360 So I, took those opportunities and then, um, I didn't, I was

applying for jobs, 69 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,000 but I was going to go back to work at the University of Louisiana, Monroe. 70 00:04:18,280 --> 00:04:23,370 And one of the conditions was to be a, uh, an ESL teacher as well. 71 00:04:23,729 --> 00:04:24,819 So to be certified. 72 00:04:24,919 --> 00:04:28,689 So when I graduated college, I went to Costa Rica. 73 00:04:29,325 --> 00:04:32,844 To do a, an ESL training class for six weeks. 74 00:04:33,335 --> 00:04:36,675 And it was there that I interviewed for the university of Virginia. 75 00:04:37,025 --> 00:04:41,055 And I only had like one polo shirt and no pants, you know, just shorts. 76 00:04:41,464 --> 00:04:43,774 I'm on a Skype call with them. 77 00:04:44,214 --> 00:04:48,145 And I didn't know anything about the university of Virginia growing up in 78 00:04:48,155 --> 00:04:50,455 the, in the South and SEC country. 79 00:04:50,895 --> 00:04:55,235 Um, and so two days later they get, they offered me a job. 80 00:04:55,235 --> 00:04:56,785 And when I came back home. 81 00:04:56,795 --> 00:05:00,865 My wife was reminding me that it's only an hour, six hours away. 82 00:05:01,385 --> 00:05:06,335 So we drove from South Carolina to Virginia and, and then, and then, you 83 00:05:06,335 --> 00:05:09,915 know, that's where, this is where I've been ever since I'm on my 11th year here. 84 00:05:10,355 --> 00:05:13,985 And so it's just kind of a great, a great story of, you know, 85 00:05:14,055 --> 00:05:15,684 figuring out what you want to do. 86 00:05:15,685 --> 00:05:18,435 So it's okay if you don't know what you're going to do, you don't have 87 00:05:18,435 --> 00:05:22,835 to follow the path that everyone else follows in order to end up doing 88 00:05:22,835 --> 00:05:25,825 something at the end that you're really passionate about and that you like. 89 00:05:26,534 --> 00:05:27,284 Yeah. 90 00:05:27,294 --> 00:05:30,804 Well, thank you so much for, for sharing that story. 91 00:05:30,814 --> 00:05:37,135 And, you know, I'm, I'm a big fan of that kind of approach to, to life. 92 00:05:37,135 --> 00:05:40,535 Also, if someone had told me that I'd be sitting here doing 93 00:05:40,835 --> 00:05:44,490 what I am today, when I was 18, I wouldn't have believed them either. 94 00:05:44,990 --> 00:05:48,800 Um, and it's something that I definitely talk, I have five children and it's 95 00:05:48,820 --> 00:05:54,230 something that we talk a lot about around the table and driving around town, you 96 00:05:54,230 --> 00:06:00,599 know, you just kind of follow your gut and things will generally work out for you. 97 00:06:00,840 --> 00:06:03,870 And, um, I appreciate hearing your story and I'm sure it's 98 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:05,320 one that you share with your. 99 00:06:05,849 --> 00:06:12,979 Students too, um, many of them that come into your courses, uh, I'm imagining, 100 00:06:12,989 --> 00:06:16,570 you know, just in what I've learned about you so far, probably maybe 101 00:06:16,570 --> 00:06:21,239 expecting something a little different when they first come in the door. 102 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:27,719 Um, so tell me a little bit about the, the courses that you currently teach and, 103 00:06:27,770 --> 00:06:33,409 um, maybe some of the, the approaches that you have to get students in, engaged 104 00:06:33,409 --> 00:06:35,330 in, in learning a foreign language. 105 00:06:35,650 --> 00:06:36,539 Yeah, sure. 106 00:06:36,609 --> 00:06:41,499 So my, my main course in the academic year is the Accelerated Beginning Spanish, 107 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,659 and I'm the course coordinator for that. 108 00:06:43,679 --> 00:06:47,809 So it's kind of, it's kind of my baby, you know, I work with, with our program 109 00:06:47,809 --> 00:06:51,879 director to develop the, all of the materials and, and those sorts of things. 110 00:06:51,879 --> 00:06:54,039 But, but it's a flip classroom. 111 00:06:54,059 --> 00:06:57,950 So this, so that, that automatically hits the students with something new. 112 00:06:57,950 --> 00:07:03,299 They're usually used to being taught at in high school and not expected to do 113 00:07:03,299 --> 00:07:07,900 much work other than just sit there and listen and fill out some, some papers. 114 00:07:08,019 --> 00:07:12,180 And so when they get to the class on the first day and it's all Spanish and 115 00:07:12,180 --> 00:07:16,269 I'm, you know, don't let them use cell phones or any sort of technology in the 116 00:07:16,270 --> 00:07:20,839 classroom, unless, you know, we're, we're doing that sort of thing that day and 117 00:07:20,839 --> 00:07:24,880 just encourage them to, to start creating with the language, like you mentioned, 118 00:07:24,890 --> 00:07:28,920 like you mentioned earlier, you know, I want the students to, to be comfortable. 119 00:07:28,950 --> 00:07:34,305 So I also work with Active Learning spaces, Collaborative Learning spaces 120 00:07:34,305 --> 00:07:39,105 where there's no front or back to the classroom and it's all interactive stuff. 121 00:07:39,105 --> 00:07:41,685 So I always have the students sit across from each other. 122 00:07:42,205 --> 00:07:47,375 And this last semester I prohibited phones even before class. 123 00:07:47,545 --> 00:07:53,125 And I, at first, um, the students were kind of bummed out about it, but I put 124 00:07:53,155 --> 00:07:57,465 kind of icebreaker questions up and wanted them to get to know each other in English. 125 00:07:57,895 --> 00:08:02,055 And I basically told them, if, if you don't do this before class, then we're 126 00:08:02,055 --> 00:08:03,785 going to spend class time doing it. 127 00:08:04,135 --> 00:08:06,755 And so our class is an accelerated class. 128 00:08:06,765 --> 00:08:08,475 so every minute counts. 129 00:08:09,174 --> 00:08:11,905 So two of the three sections really got it right away. 130 00:08:11,905 --> 00:08:14,975 I didn't even need the, the, the, the questions

after a couple of weeks. 131 00:08:15,414 --> 00:08:19,025 The 9am class, you know, it took a little bit more prodding, but they 132 00:08:19,025 --> 00:08:22,255 were, they were into it too, and that was their comment at the end of the 133 00:08:22,255 --> 00:08:26,115 semester, that that was one of the things that helped them feel more 134 00:08:26,135 --> 00:08:27,805 comfortable getting uncomfortable. 135 00:08:29,295 --> 00:08:34,495 And, and working with the, working in those confines of the class, I've 136 00:08:34,505 --> 00:08:39,744 kind of shifted instead of teaching specific individual rules that coincide 137 00:08:39,745 --> 00:08:44,744 with whatever chapter, I'm encouraging students to develop more of a conceptual 138 00:08:44,744 --> 00:08:50,000 understanding of the concepts as we go and have how they link to each other 139 00:08:50,210 --> 00:08:54,939 and so they can chunk these elements in their brain and in their file system, 140 00:08:55,610 --> 00:09:00,419 retrieve them a little bit easier and and then so some of the practice with that 141 00:09:00,420 --> 00:09:05,470 is when we get to different topics have the students explain what this topic is, 142 00:09:05,490 --> 00:09:09,390 what do we need to look out for, what are some of the exceptions, how does it 143 00:09:09,390 --> 00:09:14,785 relate to English and we do all of this in English so there's a So there's a lot of 144 00:09:14,785 --> 00:09:19,005 Spanish spoken in the class, but I think there's definitely a need, especially 145 00:09:19,005 --> 00:09:24,074 for the beginning levels, to also spend some time talking about English, 146 00:09:24,104 --> 00:09:29,155 talking about language pragmatically in English is the easiest way to do that. 147 00:09:30,975 --> 00:09:37,099 So what are some of the kind of, um, icebreakers that you use 148 00:09:37,099 --> 00:09:41,530 to help them start to become, you know, just comfortable. 149 00:09:41,530 --> 00:09:44,769 So... 150 00:09:44,769 --> 00:09:46,489 at first, it's just like, hey! 151 00:09:46,489 --> 00:09:48,829 Want to find out information about your partner. 152 00:09:48,829 --> 00:09:49,989 And I'm going to ask you about it. 153 00:09:50,019 --> 00:09:50,549 So, where are they? 154 00:09:50,549 --> 00:09:53,119 If it's the beginning of the semester, where are they from? 155 00:09:53,349 --> 00:09:54,869 What are they, what are their hobbies? 156 00:09:54,869 --> 00:09:55,979 What do they like to do? 157 00:09:56,349 --> 00:10:00,519 But as we're getting deeper into the semester, I sometimes put some 158 00:10:00,519 --> 00:10:03,860 questions that may make students get a little bit more vulnerable, 159 00:10:03,860 --> 00:10:07,964 like Tell, tell us about a challenge that you had to overcome, something 160 00:10:07,964 --> 00:10:10,425 that was hard and how did you do it? 161 00:10:10,425 --> 00:10:13,275 And what do you remember about something that you look 162 00:10:13,284 --> 00:10:14,824 forward to to get you through? 163 00:10:15,105 --> 00:10:18,925 And so some of these questions really help form the community in 164 00:10:18,925 --> 00:10:21,504 the class where they're comfortable. 165 00:10:21,545 --> 00:10:23,745 It's almost like a little therapy session, I guess. 166 00:10:23,745 --> 00:10:26,944 They get just comfortable talking with each other and also 167 00:10:26,944 --> 00:10:28,335 working with different people. 168 00:10:28,335 --> 00:10:31,095 I move the students around regularly in the class. 169 00:10:32,175 --> 00:10:32,295 Yeah. 170 00:10:33,370 --> 00:10:34,470 Yeah, that's great. 171 00:10:34,979 --> 00:10:42,750 And so when you, um, joined the, the faculty at UVA, were, was 172 00:10:42,819 --> 00:10:46,560 Digication something that was already being used in the foreign language 173 00:10:46,589 --> 00:10:51,299 courses, or is that something that you really helped to integrate? 174 00:10:51,900 --> 00:10:53,990 Yeah, so there was not being used. 175 00:10:53,990 --> 00:10:55,880 So this was 11 years ago, right? 176 00:10:55,930 --> 00:10:59,330 So, um, I think it was, I think we've been using Portfolio for 177 00:10:59,330 --> 00:11:01,295 about eight, Eight or nine years. 178 00:11:01,725 --> 00:11:06,675 And so it was after my first or second year that we were tasked with creating 179 00:11:06,675 --> 00:11:09,905 a portfolio for our individual classes. 180 00:11:09,905 --> 00:11:13,545 And the coordinators were tasked with this and we had pretty much 181 00:11:13,554 --> 00:11:15,185 creative license to do this. 182 00:11:15,224 --> 00:11:20,125 So I spent the summer thinking about what I would want my students to do from a 183 00:11:20,125 --> 00:11:26,285 project based standpoint, to be able to use the language with minimal scaffolding 184 00:11:26,324 --> 00:11:29,114 to create sort of things that, that would. 185 00:11:29,265 --> 00:11:32,485 That would demonstrate their learning, their speaking, listening, 186 00:11:32,485 --> 00:11:34,564 and reading, um, learning. 187 00:11:34,655 --> 00:11:38,314 And so, so I created, you know, a portfolio that we 188 00:11:38,315 --> 00:11:39,854 used WordPress at the time. 189 00:11:40,545 --> 00:11:43,365 I didn't, we didn't even know, I didn't even know about Digication then. 190 00:11:43,385 --> 00:11:47,914 And, you know, we use WordPress for a year or two, and then we switched 191 00:11:47,914 --> 00:11:53,499 to Digication, which was much more, um, intuitive and, And, and helpful. 192 00:11:53,499 --> 00:11:57,979 And I'm even one of the ones that really liked the backend assignment features 193 00:11:57,999 --> 00:12:00,290 of, of Digication and all of that. 194 00:12:00,530 --> 00:12:03,799 The problem with that was kind of our faculty. 195 00:12:03,799 --> 00:12:08,219 We have a big faculty, you know, and so the buy in with the faculty and 196 00:12:08,219 --> 00:12:13,349 the technology aspect was a bit

of a, a bit of a downer for some of them. 197 00:12:13,420 --> 00:12:13,829 So. 198 00:12:14,030 --> 00:12:18,710 So, you know, we ended up just kind of sticking to using the Portfolio only, 199 00:12:18,730 --> 00:12:23,300 but if it were up to me, I would be using those assignments and all of that stuff. 200 00:12:23,309 --> 00:12:26,800 Cause then you can see when people turned in things and all of that, and there's 201 00:12:26,820 --> 00:12:28,430 rubrics and those sorts of things. 202 00:12:29,190 --> 00:12:29,630 Yeah. 203 00:12:29,850 --> 00:12:30,260 Yeah. 204 00:12:30,260 --> 00:12:36,575 And I don't know if you've had a chance to, um, See the new Kora features that 205 00:12:36,575 --> 00:12:41,364 we've been rolling out for Kora courses, but the, I know that integration with 206 00:12:41,364 --> 00:12:45,754 the learning management system was really key for some of the faculty. 207 00:12:45,755 --> 00:12:52,015 And there's a lot more options now to kind of ease into using some of those 208 00:12:52,114 --> 00:12:58,965 course features that you enjoyed, even for those that may not, um, be familiar as 209 00:12:58,965 --> 00:13:00,965 much with that, that side of Digication. 210 00:13:01,365 --> 00:13:05,855 So we'll have a chance to, yeah, share, share more of that too. 211 00:13:06,195 --> 00:13:07,875 Yeah, I'm supposed to be used. 212 00:13:07,884 --> 00:13:11,545 I was supposed to be using that in the summer with my summer class. 213 00:13:11,554 --> 00:13:13,705 So hopefully I'll be working with that soon. 214 00:13:14,075 --> 00:13:16,915 And the summer class that we created is a, is an. 215 00:13:17,025 --> 00:13:22,300 As free Spanish refresher class to get students to test into a higher Spanish. 216 00:13:22,820 --> 00:13:27,229 So we created our own materials, but we used Digication exclusively 217 00:13:27,250 --> 00:13:32,160 on that program for writing, revisions, speaking, and commenting. 218 00:13:32,379 --> 00:13:35,350 And it's amazing because the students can literally see their 219 00:13:35,359 --> 00:13:37,264 progress over the six week period. 220 00:13:37,265 --> 00:13:40,535 Period where they're primarily working on their own. 221 00:13:40,775 --> 00:13:40,865 Mm-Hmm. 222 00:13:41,105 --> 00:13:44,885 and, you know, asynchronously exchanging with their partners, 223 00:13:44,944 --> 00:13:46,415 um, along the semester. 224 00:13:46,745 --> 00:13:51,185 But the Portfolio in that realm, I've shared some fantastic portfolios 225 00:13:51,185 --> 00:13:55,505 with some of the team here about how much progress students have made 226 00:13:55,510 --> 00:13:58,745 over just studying on their own with the content that we made for them. 227 00:13:59,485 --> 00:14:04,965 Yes, and it's so clear for them when they're able to see, you know, the kind 228 00:14:04,965 --> 00:14:09,765 of progress that they have from the, those early classes to where they are at the 229 00:14:09,765 --> 00:14:14,734 end, you know, in terms of their writing and their speaking abilities, right? 230 00:14:15,434 --> 00:14:21,355 Um, so for some of our listeners that may not be as familiar with, um. 231 00:14:21,565 --> 00:14:26,735 You know, what an ePortfolio is or how students in a foreign language class 232 00:14:26,805 --> 00:14:30,314 may be using a platform like that. 233 00:14:30,315 --> 00:14:34,305 Could you talk a little bit about maybe what kind of prompts 234 00:14:34,305 --> 00:14:36,424 or projects that they're doing? 235 00:14:36,425 --> 00:14:40,444 What kind of tools that they're using as part of, um, kind 236 00:14:40,444 --> 00:14:42,164 of documenting that learning? 237 00:14:42,835 --> 00:14:43,275 Right. 238 00:14:43,285 --> 00:14:48,194 So yeah, so the ePortfolio, you know, as you guys know, the Digication 239 00:14:48,235 --> 00:14:54,454 is, is a High-Impact Practice that was denoted by the AAC&U years ago. 240 00:14:54,814 --> 00:14:58,509 And a High-Impact Practice is a, is a very respected practice. 241 00:14:59,450 --> 00:15:02,720 It shows that this is something that actually really helps, right? 242 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:07,380 Like capstone classes aren't the same level as ePortfolio use, right? 243 00:15:07,700 --> 00:15:11,789 So it's very important to, to, to, to kind of put it in context right 244 00:15:11,790 --> 00:15:15,819 there because the Portfolio, it makes the learning visible, right? 245 00:15:15,830 --> 00:15:19,750 The students can see what they're learning and they can engage in 246 00:15:19,750 --> 00:15:21,900 a virtual community in real time. 247 00:15:22,140 --> 00:15:24,200 They can see examples of work. 248 00:15:24,439 --> 00:15:26,879 They can get resources from other students. 249 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:33,140 To either guide the direction of their own work or as study resources that I use in 250 00:15:33,140 --> 00:15:35,790 various concept map sorts of activities. 251 00:15:37,030 --> 00:15:43,530 So, and the metacognitive part that's so easy on the Portfolio cannot be left 252 00:15:43,530 --> 00:15:48,220 out either, because when students have the ability and are coached on how to 253 00:15:48,220 --> 00:15:52,900 reflect on their learning and identify where they're actually learning, that's 254 00:15:52,900 --> 00:15:58,630 when students really see the value of devoting time and effort into the class. 255 00:15:59,030 --> 00:16:02,600 In many of these activities that we, that we do would be done 256 00:16:02,610 --> 00:16:07,860 without any ePortfolio, but I think the effect of the student, as the 257 00:16:07,860 --> 00:16:13,090 student's perspective would be, um, less evident of their progress. 258 00:16:13,090 --> 00:16:17,610 the Portfolio shows them, you made a video for me in week one where you 259 00:16:17,610 --> 00:16:19,750 could barely speak for 20 seconds. 260 00:16:19,999 --> 00:16:25,230 At week 16, you spoke for three minutes with a very

open ended prompt, 261 00:16:25,270 --> 00:16:29,430 incorporating many structures, and basically you went over the time. 262 00:16:29,910 --> 00:16:34,250 So like, that's, that's, that is What's possible on an ePortfolio. 263 00:16:34,250 --> 00:16:39,870 So some of the projects that we do on portfolios are beginning reflections, 264 00:16:39,910 --> 00:16:44,330 end reflections, and we also do individual assignment reflections. 265 00:16:45,419 --> 00:16:49,919 We also do project based learning, right, where at, you know, certain 266 00:16:49,919 --> 00:16:54,990 points in the semester or aligning with particular units from the curriculum 267 00:16:54,990 --> 00:16:59,245 that we're using, we'll provide students with an open-ended prompt where they 268 00:16:59,245 --> 00:17:05,415 need to, you know, uh, interpret some information, maybe from a calendar and 269 00:17:05,415 --> 00:17:10,064 then compare it and answer some questions and then create their own calendar and 270 00:17:10,064 --> 00:17:12,714 explain what they do in a given week. 271 00:17:12,734 --> 00:17:16,394 So you have some scaffolding to get them identifying some 272 00:17:16,394 --> 00:17:18,044 structures that they need to use. 273 00:17:18,145 --> 00:17:20,234 And then they can create with it, right? 274 00:17:20,614 --> 00:17:23,964 And we also use it for revision revisions, right? 275 00:17:23,964 --> 00:17:26,494 Where I love the inline commenting feature. 276 00:17:26,895 --> 00:17:28,385 So students, you know, right? 277 00:17:28,385 --> 00:17:31,564 And you, you make some, you make some suggestions and then, then they 278 00:17:31,564 --> 00:17:33,524 can post the other one under that. 279 00:17:33,544 --> 00:17:36,899 And you, you know, You can correct that and they can add more and 280 00:17:36,899 --> 00:17:38,270 it just kind of keeps going. 281 00:17:38,780 --> 00:17:42,589 So the reflective things that we also use it for big summative assessments, 282 00:17:42,589 --> 00:17:47,749 like end of semester projects that are like multi step, multi modal things 283 00:17:47,749 --> 00:17:53,460 where unlike a PowerPoint or unlike a Word document, you know, you can have. 284 00:17:53,710 --> 00:17:56,830 You can get all of the samples that you need for a language class or 285 00:17:56,830 --> 00:17:58,980 writing samples, speaking samples. 286 00:17:59,380 --> 00:18:03,480 And then we include multimedia use, which is so important, not just, just 287 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:09,639 in everyday life, um, those sorts of aspects and, uh, and the concept 288 00:18:09,639 --> 00:18:13,370 map stuff, which is what I really liked that the students, that the 289 00:18:13,370 --> 00:18:15,750 students do, um, where they, they. 290 00:18:16,334 --> 00:18:19,685 Since we teach an accelerated class, it's two classes in one 291 00:18:19,695 --> 00:18:21,514 semester, so many concepts. 292 00:18:22,014 --> 00:18:25,844 After the second exam, which students usually score way less than they 293 00:18:25,864 --> 00:18:29,814 thought they were going to, we give them an opportunity to take 294 00:18:29,814 --> 00:18:33,464 the structures that will be on the third test and formulate some sort 295 00:18:33,464 --> 00:18:35,514 of a graphic, like an infographic. 296 00:18:36,205 --> 00:18:40,014 And we give them creative..., we show them some examples, but we give them creative 297 00:18:40,014 --> 00:18:42,105 license to do it however they want. 298 00:18:42,585 --> 00:18:46,335 And then those become study resources for other people. 299 00:18:46,535 --> 00:18:49,845 And this last semester, I even saw students using them 300 00:18:49,845 --> 00:18:51,715 in class without prompt. 301 00:18:52,375 --> 00:18:56,095 Like they would pull up or print out a concept map and bring it to class. 302 00:18:56,155 --> 00:19:01,925 And so, so these sorts of things, I think, make the ePortfolio invaluable. 303 00:19:02,100 --> 00:19:08,250 And just an amazing tool that I think any language program 304 00:19:08,250 --> 00:19:09,790 is better off because of it. 305 00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:13,259 Oh, well, thank you so much for describing that. 306 00:19:13,260 --> 00:19:17,149 And I was curious as you were talking, you know, you were speaking a little 307 00:19:17,149 --> 00:19:23,815 bit about how Within Digication, you're able to get evidence, you know, all of 308 00:19:23,815 --> 00:19:28,175 the different types of evidence that you're looking for, um, for your course. 309 00:19:28,325 --> 00:19:34,554 And is it, and something that's a bit different than PowerPoint, um, where 310 00:19:34,554 --> 00:19:40,365 maybe before a tool like Digication was available, would have been a space for 311 00:19:40,365 --> 00:19:44,970 the students to create kind of a Slide presentation of, of what they had done. 312 00:19:45,540 --> 00:19:50,180 Um, are they sometimes using Digication now as more of that kind of. 313 00:19:50,785 --> 00:19:52,185 creation space. 314 00:19:52,235 --> 00:19:59,445 So are they recording directly into their ePortfolio, whether it's video 315 00:19:59,445 --> 00:20:04,485 or audio, or is it something where they're kind of capturing it and 316 00:20:04,485 --> 00:20:07,124 then, and then loading things in? 317 00:20:07,874 --> 00:20:11,745 No, our students in the Spanish class per the assignments are recording 318 00:20:11,745 --> 00:20:14,465 right into Digication because that's the easiest way, right? 319 00:20:14,485 --> 00:20:17,854 Like just open up your phone or your tablet or your computer, 320 00:20:18,064 --> 00:20:19,635 hit record, record it. 321 00:20:19,635 --> 00:20:22,305 If you don't like it, record it again, and then upload. 322 00:20:22,354 --> 00:20:27,155 Some students will create, if it's, if it's, if it's some sort of a video 323 00:20:27,155 --> 00:20:30,785 that requires editing, some students will create that somewhere else 324 00:20:30,785

--> 00:20:32,305 and then put it on the Portfolio. 325 00:20:32,675 --> 00:20:37,045 But for most of the, like the, um, The, the monologue videos that we do 326 00:20:37,045 --> 00:20:40,285 at the, the presentational speaking things at the beginning and the end 327 00:20:40,285 --> 00:20:45,125 of the semester, they just record that right on, on, on Digication with, and 328 00:20:45,125 --> 00:20:48,835 we give them prompts like, you know, don't read, we should see errors in this. 329 00:20:48,835 --> 00:20:51,774 If it's too perfect, you know, you're going to have to do it again. 330 00:20:51,774 --> 00:20:56,425 You know, those sorts of, those sorts of things, which, you know, if it's re if 331 00:20:56,425 --> 00:21:00,844 it's cast in enough ways in the class, students really get it, you know, and 332 00:21:00,844 --> 00:21:06,219 they, They, if they trust that they can, they can give you their true work without 333 00:21:06,219 --> 00:21:12,440 any use of Chat GPT or translators, and you're going to fairly assess them 334 00:21:12,449 --> 00:21:14,290 and they trust you on this journey. 335 00:21:14,319 --> 00:21:19,129 That's, that's been the most, um, you get the best results from students that way. 336 00:21:19,549 --> 00:21:19,729 Yeah, 337 00:21:19,729 --> 00:21:21,119 Yeah, absolutely. 338 00:21:21,635 --> 00:21:26,385 Um, so you mentioned one of the other features that you like to use 339 00:21:26,525 --> 00:21:30,645 is that kind of in line commenting. 340 00:21:30,745 --> 00:21:34,094 Um, so it's known as the, the conversations feature and the 341 00:21:34,094 --> 00:21:38,105 platform for listeners that may be interested in, in where that is found. 342 00:21:38,134 --> 00:21:42,685 Could you talk a little bit about Maybe what your process is as students 343 00:21:42,685 --> 00:21:47,305 are developing these throughout the course, you know, what kind of 344 00:21:47,315 --> 00:21:52,335 frequency are you going in and looking at their work and providing feedback 345 00:21:52,515 --> 00:21:54,984 and are they responding to you there? 346 00:21:54,985 --> 00:21:56,675 Are they going through and making edits? 347 00:21:56,845 --> 00:21:58,515 Could you describe a little bit about what that is? 348 00:22:00,050 --> 00:22:02,890 Yeah, I'll talk about it in two, two different ways because 349 00:22:02,890 --> 00:22:04,200 we use it a bit differently. 350 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,080 So in the, in the summer class, right? 351 00:22:07,129 --> 00:22:09,960 So again, it's a free non credit class. 352 00:22:09,970 --> 00:22:14,700 So students, they, the only caret that they have to finish is that 353 00:22:14,710 --> 00:22:19,740 we give them guaranteed placement in a Spanish class if they commit. 354 00:22:20,220 --> 00:22:25,670 And so we give them prompt feedback on their writings and we, we, we 355 00:22:25,700 --> 00:22:27,540 do revisions on their writing. 356 00:22:27,540 --> 00:22:29,940 So, so they do

like three modules. 357 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:34,650 So they write something, we, we give them suggestions and then they 358 00:22:34,710 --> 00:22:36,850 edit it and add a new paragraph. 359 00:22:37,130 --> 00:22:41,135 And then we, Edit the first paragraph again, and the second paragraph the 360 00:22:41,135 --> 00:22:45,045 first time, and then they add a third paragraph, and we do that one more time. 361 00:22:45,375 --> 00:22:51,155 So, but we do that very quickly because our, the, the online learning specialist 362 00:22:51,155 --> 00:22:56,060 we talked to said one thing that that prevents attrition in these, these 363 00:22:56,090 --> 00:22:59,320 free classes is a delayed feedback. 364 00:22:59,899 --> 00:23:01,490 So we're real prompt with that. 365 00:23:01,719 --> 00:23:06,349 However, during the semester, when the, the projects are, are more spaced 366 00:23:06,350 --> 00:23:10,529 out, then, then the students will do the work and then the feedback will 367 00:23:10,549 --> 00:23:14,780 come, you know, in, in a reasonable time, like within a few days. 368 00:23:15,150 --> 00:23:19,400 Within a few days or a week, but stuff for things like the final project. 369 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,779 Yeah, I'm going in and really looking at the, at the, the language and giving 370 00:23:23,779 --> 00:23:27,920 them a ton of suggestions, and then they just go in and most different 371 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,549 ones have different processes, but they just address the issues and 372 00:23:31,599 --> 00:23:36,089 delete the comment and just keep going, going on about, about their work. 373 00:23:37,219 --> 00:23:37,249 Nice. 374 00:23:37,279 --> 00:23:41,919 And I even comment on their reflections as well, you know, cause I think they, 375 00:23:41,929 --> 00:23:47,009 they, you know, I'll, cause it's another way to workshop how to write reflections, 376 00:23:47,009 --> 00:23:52,419 which is good for students to learn how to do, you know, and I'll maybe encourage 377 00:23:52,419 --> 00:23:56,599 students to expand a little more or highlight what this is a very insightful 378 00:23:56,749 --> 00:23:58,290 point, you know, that sort of thing. 379 00:23:59,220 --> 00:23:59,660 Yeah. 380 00:23:59,930 --> 00:24:00,230 Yeah. 381 00:24:00,230 --> 00:24:02,120 And that was actually my next question. 382 00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:06,355 Cause you mentioned when the students were coming to your course, You know, 383 00:24:06,395 --> 00:24:12,465 in order to really take advantage of that High-Impact Practice around 384 00:24:12,645 --> 00:24:18,154 developing a Portfolio is this kind of coaching around reflection. 385 00:24:18,225 --> 00:24:22,654 And I'm imagining many of the students that are coming into your courses, that 386 00:24:22,654 --> 00:24:26,165 this is something that they may not be familiar with, you know, again, once 387 00:24:26,165 --> 00:24:29,504 again, this kind of active learning that you're not just

standing in 388 00:24:29,504 --> 00:24:34,739 front of the classroom, telling them, What they should be doing, right. 389 00:24:34,739 --> 00:24:38,189 They're kind of figuring things out for themselves and 390 00:24:38,459 --> 00:24:40,320 working with other students. 391 00:24:40,709 --> 00:24:45,870 Um, so as part of this kind of coaching or reflection, how do you embed that 392 00:24:45,870 --> 00:24:50,220 into, um, teaching a new language? 393 00:24:50,220 --> 00:24:54,870 You know, is it something that you're kind of scaffolding directly? 394 00:24:55,255 --> 00:25:00,045 Within the pages that they're forming, are you using specific prompts 395 00:25:00,045 --> 00:25:01,865 or templates with the students? 396 00:25:01,865 --> 00:25:06,914 Is it something that you, you know, talk about with them when they're in class? 397 00:25:07,235 --> 00:25:10,264 You know, it sounds like you do give them feedback on it as they're developing 398 00:25:10,264 --> 00:25:11,924 it, but how do they even get to that? 399 00:25:12,185 --> 00:25:15,064 First stage of starting to reflect on what they're doing. 400 00:25:15,264 --> 00:25:15,594 Yeah. 401 00:25:15,594 --> 00:25:19,975 So we, we use the instruction feature on Digication, you know, the instruction 402 00:25:19,975 --> 00:25:24,135 slide to give them all of their prompts, no matter what the content, what 403 00:25:24,135 --> 00:25:26,655 the, what the, the project would be. 404 00:25:27,304 --> 00:25:31,344 So for the reflection one, so we have questions and we have tips of course, 405 00:25:31,705 --> 00:25:36,114 but we also, in the Accelerated Beginning Spanish class, we do, we 406 00:25:36,114 --> 00:25:39,264 do these reflection workshops, right? 407 00:25:39,314 --> 00:25:41,885 And so a workshop is like toward the. 408 00:25:42,095 --> 00:25:44,975 Toward the end of the semester, we only do it once. 409 00:25:45,115 --> 00:25:50,985 Um, but so the students share, they do these little mini presentations in English 410 00:25:51,004 --> 00:25:53,054 about their learning for the semester. 411 00:25:53,514 --> 00:25:57,895 And so students are writing, I have students write things on the board, 412 00:25:58,105 --> 00:26:02,175 and then I, if a student says something that's particularly insightful or 413 00:26:02,175 --> 00:26:05,179 profound, I'll I, I then re-... 414 00:26:05,279 --> 00:26:11,100 Rephrase that in terms of like reflective, reflective pedagogy or 415 00:26:11,550 --> 00:26:15,850 second language acquisition theory that they touch on in their own ways. 416 00:26:16,249 --> 00:26:19,479 And then so at the end, I'm like, you guys should take pictures of these 417 00:26:19,610 --> 00:26:23,759 bullet points that your classmates wrote, because these are the sorts of things 418 00:26:23,759 --> 00:26:27,379 that you're going to want to, you're going to want to, your teachers are going 419 00:26:27,379 --> 00:26:29,090 to want to see in all your reflections. 420 00:26:29,550 --> 00:26:33,840 And so I feel like, It would be great to do that more frequently 421 00:26:33,870 --> 00:26:38,010 in, in all classes, um, but again, we have the accelerated class. 422 00:26:38,020 --> 00:26:40,150 So, you know, that's how we're doing it for right now. 423 00:26:40,455 --> 00:26:40,824 Yeah. 424 00:26:40,824 --> 00:26:41,175 Yeah. 425 00:26:41,175 --> 00:26:46,135 But that's such a great idea just to kind of have this workshop kind 426 00:26:46,135 --> 00:26:50,705 of space where, you know, you're not just giving them feedback on their own 427 00:26:50,705 --> 00:26:55,955 reflections, but they're able to see some of their, their classmates right there 428 00:26:56,004 --> 00:26:58,774 and your immediate response to those. 429 00:26:58,834 --> 00:27:02,465 And what a great idea just to kind of take a picture so they can have it with them. 430 00:27:02,504 --> 00:27:05,045 So if they're ever having, you know, one of those. 431 00:27:05,785 --> 00:27:06,425 Blank page. 432 00:27:06,425 --> 00:27:12,345 What am I going to say moments that they can refer back to that and kind of frame 433 00:27:12,345 --> 00:27:15,145 their thinking based on those examples. 434 00:27:16,044 --> 00:27:16,445 Yeah. 435 00:27:16,485 --> 00:27:19,784 Cause they, they all have very similar, similar experiences. 436 00:27:19,784 --> 00:27:20,084 Right. 437 00:27:20,084 --> 00:27:23,574 And so one of the features is like a callback, right? 438 00:27:23,614 --> 00:27:26,794 So the first person obviously can't call back, but the, 439 00:27:26,824 --> 00:27:28,564 after the first person speaks. 440 00:27:29,070 --> 00:27:33,600 Then the other person can get up like, just like Kelly said, I also 441 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,680 feel this, but you know, and then, so it kind of prompts more discussion. 442 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,379 And then by the end it works the same way when they start writing. 443 00:27:41,730 --> 00:27:42,180 Yeah. 444 00:27:42,180 --> 00:27:42,610 Yeah. 445 00:27:42,829 --> 00:27:46,979 Do you ever have, uh, just out of curiosity, do you ever have students 446 00:27:47,130 --> 00:27:51,970 go in and use the conversations feature to give feedback on each 447 00:27:51,970 --> 00:27:54,730 other's work within their portfolios? 448 00:27:55,140 --> 00:27:56,789 Not without being prompted. 449 00:27:56,789 --> 00:27:57,139 No. 450 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:57,660 Okay. 451 00:27:57,820 --> 00:27:58,120 Yeah. 452 00:27:58,180 --> 00:28:01,200 I mean, they do comment on each other's work, you know, but 453 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:02,530 it's part of the assignment. 454 00:28:02,650 --> 00:28:04,040 It's part of some of the assignments. 455 00:28:04,110 --> 00:28:04,350 Yeah. 456 00:28:04,830 --> 00:28:09,190 I haven't seen a student just go, um, maybe they have, and I don't 457 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,669 monitor the comments that closely, but yeah, I know we make them comment

458 00:28:13,710 --> 00:28:15,579 on other students work, but yeah. 459 00:28:15,850 --> 00:28:15,949 Yeah. 460 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,010 So how do you prompt them to do that? 461 00:28:18,010 --> 00:28:21,860 Are there a certain number of other students that they need to look at? 462 00:28:21,860 --> 00:28:26,860 Are there projects that you feel like lend themselves more to having that kind 463 00:28:26,860 --> 00:28:33,160 of yeah, we just part of part of the actual the assignment right? 464 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,640 It's the reflection and commenting part before you reflect. 465 00:28:36,970 --> 00:28:40,750 Go view 3 of your your partner's projects and comment on some 466 00:28:40,750 --> 00:28:42,615 aspect of their project. 467 00:28:42,615 --> 00:28:46,605 And we do the first half of the semester, we do this commenting in 468 00:28:46,615 --> 00:28:50,995 English because it's going to generate the more sincere and genuine answers. 469 00:28:51,295 --> 00:28:54,665 And then toward the end, we switch to Spanish when the students have a 470 00:28:54,665 --> 00:28:58,964 little bit more ability to create with the language and, you know, and say, 471 00:28:59,005 --> 00:29:03,414 say some, some things that make sense that don't need a lot of correction. 472 00:29:03,805 --> 00:29:03,975 Yeah. 473 00:29:04,095 --> 00:29:04,685 Yeah. 474 00:29:04,905 --> 00:29:05,805 Oh, that's great. 475 00:29:06,274 --> 00:29:10,905 Um, so I know, you know, in learning a little bit about you, I mean, it just 476 00:29:10,905 --> 00:29:16,905 sounds like you're involved in so many things that is for the institution. 477 00:29:16,925 --> 00:29:20,764 So, and I learned some of this and looking at your own personal 478 00:29:21,094 --> 00:29:27,775 portfolios, um, but that you're involved or were involved in a Spanish 479 00:29:27,885 --> 00:29:32,225 theater group and, um, have also been. 480 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:37,719 It sounds like working in, let me see if I made a note of what it was called. 481 00:29:37,770 --> 00:29:43,369 One of the other, um, oh, the Sigma Delta Pi, um, faculty advisor. 482 00:29:43,820 --> 00:29:45,870 So, would you mind sharing some of those things? 483 00:29:45,879 --> 00:29:49,229 Because you're just so deeply rooted and really celebrating. 484 00:29:49,750 --> 00:29:52,780 Spanish culture and Spanish language and literature. 485 00:29:52,780 --> 00:29:54,490 I'd love to hear more about that too. 486 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,470 Yeah, so these, these posters here are some of the plays 487 00:29:58,470 --> 00:30:00,240 that we've done, um, here. 488 00:30:00,249 --> 00:30:03,090 The Spanish Theater Group has been existing with UVA. 489 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,640 They celebrated 40 years, uh, 2019, right? 490 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,975 So those are 40th 40th year to do plays. 491 00:30:10,975 --> 00:30:13,545 And of course I came 11 years ago. 492 00:30:13,545 --> 00:30:15,265 So I just jumped right in. 493 00:30:15,275 --> 00:30:19,105 My, one of my mentors here, Fernando Opere is the one that 494 00:30:19,124 --> 00:30:21,715 started the Spanish theater play. 495 00:30:21,715 --> 00:30:24,755 So I do a lot of the behind the scenes tech stuff with that. 496 00:30:25,124 --> 00:30:28,235 And then the Spanish honor society, Sigma Delta Pi is just 497 00:30:28,235 --> 00:30:30,265 a national Spanish honor society. 498 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:35,400 And, you know, it's geared to position students to be more active, right? 499 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,170 To, to look for opportunities in the community. 500 00:30:38,620 --> 00:30:42,229 And, you know, some of these things can lead to scholarships and awards and stuff. 501 00:30:42,229 --> 00:30:47,570 So my job there is to kind of gently push students towards things and 502 00:30:47,570 --> 00:30:50,060 encourage them to organize on their own. 503 00:30:50,390 --> 00:30:54,460 And sometimes that requires me to do a little bit more organizing than them, 504 00:30:54,460 --> 00:30:56,140 or at least get them headed that way. 505 00:30:56,140 --> 00:30:57,180 And, um. 506 00:30:57,425 --> 00:31:01,325 Yeah, so that's, that's been a pretty active group and I've also been working 507 00:31:01,325 --> 00:31:07,045 with the honor fraternity Sigma, Sigma Phi Epsilon, which is, which 508 00:31:07,045 --> 00:31:09,045 is, I'm a faculty fellow for them. 509 00:31:09,045 --> 00:31:13,304 And 1 of the things that I hope we can get to talk about is the professional 510 00:31:13,304 --> 00:31:17,635 portfolios that I've been working on in the Spanish classrooms and also 511 00:31:17,995 --> 00:31:19,875 outside of the Spanish classrooms. 512 00:31:20,295 --> 00:31:24,885 But Sigma Phi Epsilon is a, is an honor fraternity that's been around 513 00:31:24,895 --> 00:31:26,885 for, I guess, about 100 years or so. 514 00:31:27,265 --> 00:31:32,774 And, and so I, because of a student took my class and created a 515 00:31:32,775 --> 00:31:36,735 professional portfolio in my class, asked me if I would be the faculty 516 00:31:36,745 --> 00:31:39,474 fellow for them, um, to help them. 517 00:31:39,870 --> 00:31:43,320 To help them to, to be able to market themselves. 518 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,170 And none of these are Spanish majors. 519 00:31:45,170 --> 00:31:50,259 They're all like engineering, computer science and math, uh, math majors 520 00:31:50,259 --> 00:31:54,539 and accounting and very analytical types of super responsible young men. 521 00:31:55,509 --> 00:31:59,709 And so working with them on, you know, creating professional portfolios 522 00:31:59,730 --> 00:32:04,780 to expand their digital ecosystems, providing templates and feedback has 523 00:32:04,810 --> 00:32:09,140 been, it's been really rewarding to see those, that sort of work come together. 524 00:32:09,685 --> 00:32:10,965 Oh, that's wonderful. 525 00:32:10,965 --> 00:32:15,515 I didn't even

realize that there was a bridge there with the, those students. 526 00:32:15,765 --> 00:32:20,114 So did they initially get inspired because they were part of one of 527 00:32:20,115 --> 00:32:24,134 your Spanish language courses and then saw that this was something that 528 00:32:24,134 --> 00:32:29,895 they could really use to develop kind of their professional persona and. 529 00:32:30,495 --> 00:32:31,005 Yes. 530 00:32:31,355 --> 00:32:37,165 So, yeah, their, their current president was in my class when I piloted 531 00:32:37,175 --> 00:32:39,575 the professional portfolio option. 532 00:32:40,140 --> 00:32:43,410 Which is something that you, I don't, not sure if you remember, 533 00:32:43,410 --> 00:32:47,980 but a couple of years ago, well, the University of Virginia participated 534 00:32:47,980 --> 00:32:51,210 in the AAC&U Institute on ePortfolios. 535 00:32:51,449 --> 00:32:55,040 And I know Digication was a big contributor to that whole Institute. 536 00:32:55,489 --> 00:32:57,099 And so my. 537 00:32:57,365 --> 00:32:58,795 We all had little projects. 538 00:32:58,835 --> 00:33:02,565 And so my project was to develop a professional portfolio 539 00:33:02,905 --> 00:33:05,075 template rubric guidelines. 540 00:33:05,555 --> 00:33:10,845 And, um, because of that amazing institute, I got to meet with Helen Chin 541 00:33:10,904 --> 00:33:14,484 on Zoom for like one, like two hour call. 542 00:33:14,534 --> 00:33:18,985 And so I got a lot of feedback from her and ideas and just, you know, 543 00:33:19,015 --> 00:33:20,709 engaging with, uh, my, my students. 544 00:33:20,910 --> 00:33:24,550 Previous mentor that's retired now, Yitna Firdyiwek, you know, he 545 00:33:24,550 --> 00:33:29,200 was a real big fan of what I was doing with professional portfolios. 546 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,040 And, and so then we created a rubric and a template. 547 00:33:33,070 --> 00:33:37,620 And so this, this student was in that, that class that did the first 548 00:33:37,620 --> 00:33:39,580 round of professional portfolios. 549 00:33:40,105 --> 00:33:43,755 And has since continued to use his, as you know, and Digication 550 00:33:43,775 --> 00:33:47,825 on the back end, you can see when students access their portfolios. 551 00:33:48,295 --> 00:33:52,584 So, you know, there's several students that have continued to use their 552 00:33:52,584 --> 00:33:57,194 professional portfolios and get, get scholarships and, and awards 553 00:33:57,194 --> 00:34:01,815 and send them for internships and every student that has created one 554 00:34:01,815 --> 00:34:03,625 and has used it has been successful. 555 00:34:03,625 --> 00:34:07,235 And I mean, I know it's not exactly the Portfolio, but 556 00:34:07,235 --> 00:34:09,394 it definitely does help set. 557 00:34:09,565 --> 00:34:13,075 Someone apart from an as equally qualified person. 558 00:34:13,395 --> 00:34:18,745 If you have something that really shows what you're all about and what you've been 559 00:34:18,745 --> 00:34:22,714 learning, yeah, and the sort of thinker you're involved, you're evolving to be. 560 00:34:23,945 --> 00:34:28,795 Here's a preview of what's coming up next in part two of my conversation with 561 00:34:28,795 --> 00:34:31,504 Matthew Street, Senior Lecturer in Spanish 562 00:34:31,544 --> 00:34:32,584 at the University 563 00:34:32,584 --> 00:34:32,674 of 564 00:34:32,684 --> 00:34:33,234 Virginia. 565 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:39,450 From an accessibility standpoint, it makes sense from the cost aspect and also 566 00:34:39,450 --> 00:34:44,270 from an equity standpoint for, um, the coverage of different minority groups 567 00:34:44,340 --> 00:34:47,930 and, and equality aspects all around.