Mirco Hering is a DevOps expert with Accenture. He is also an accomplished blogger and now a DevOps author. His book DevOps for the Modern Enterprise from IT Revolution is available on Amazon and other sites that sell books. Mirco in his role with Accenture is also very tuned into the Asia-Pacific region's DevOps scene, as well as Europe.
We discuss a little bit about both AP and Europe as well as a preview of DOES London 2018. Great conversation with a real DevOps practitioner.
United States


00:00:11Hey everyone it's your own show Mulder about star com and where you're listening to another DevOps chat today's guest on DevOps chat is a friend of mine well known DevOps personality DevOps or so with the ninety revolution book and they are a lead DevOps person an eccentric Brcko
00:00:31herring mackerel well come thank you Alan good to talk to you again good to speak to you my friend so let's see the last time we spoke I think was it does London and it wasn't does San Francisco disco excuse me yes I was just testing you you
00:00:51passed it wasn't that severance is go and they had just announced I guess the your book going to print it I am I am both proud and embarrassed to say that I have I think it's not copy number one all my date is it is I have given
00:01:12you my first copy yes by mistake and I told you though the next time I see you all take it with me and will will vote for it I'll give you back your first copy I'll take another copy but I I do have car number one but since
00:01:27then the book has been officially published it's available on Amazon in both hard cover OR soft cover as well as audio book correct at eight is at on kindle fifty book paperback and all your book is coming in the next months god it and the name of the
00:01:46book of course is DevOps for the modern enterprise and it really is sort of a collection of the of the blogs you've written over the years correct yeah I think they they the Bronx basically create the backbone of the book but you know for the book of a
00:02:03CM about I try to create a bit more for an intense storyline that you help people make sense of it it all together correct yeah exactly exactly embargo we should also mention that in your day job or in your spare time anyway you are the principal director for
00:02:20a pack DevOps and add jobs with Accenture in from the APEC region correct correct to say that that's my my day job a lot of the experience comes on by running a well what I would think is a is a reasonably large team off DevOps an agile change
00:02:38agents yen in Asia Pacific fantastic and if that wasn't enough you are also I don't know if we've officially announced in a maybe this will serve as the announcement but your are you speaking it does London this year I will I will I think it got announced a
00:02:57couple of weeks ago I got it all sorted so the cats now that the we didn't we didn't let the cat out of the back of you know does London is I think it's it's third year narrowed its it's rapidly becoming is being is the US version of
00:03:10because of what can you tell our share with our audience a little bit about what you'll be speaking about yeah absolutely say of course I will also take some material from the book and add to it both think that learned since then in the space of things are
00:03:30moving really fast the the idea of a off the talk will be to share a little bit about where I see transformations struggle and sometimes even fail all my experience that people can learn from they they they're not the good things I've seen %HESITATION but then also how
00:03:49can you get out of that say in my head I have a little bit of a story line that is very similar to an adventure joining right but you have this kind of yeah this treasure map and you need to the Comcast and how would how can you
00:04:01use the things that we have around devils dashboard citizens values actually manage all your traditional transformation makes sense makes sense arm so Merkel if you don't mind I I want to dive into a subject I think we might have spoken a little bit about it it's average let's
00:04:24go buddy it's been something that we've we've been seeing ally I was out in Las Vegas couple weeks ago for IBM thing for instance and I spoke to a couple of folks from large enterprises there and that is that you know what DevOps isn't necessarily new anymore a
00:04:44lot of people have heard it a lot of organizations are trying to get but there's also an equal amount of organizations who let's say they're taken back by how hard it is not that it's hard but I think they had unrealistic expectations of how easy it is and
00:05:07and so when they find out it's not that easy they say oh this was sweetheart but that's that's truly not the case I think but never the less the perception is sometimes reality so you have a ton of experience you dealing with a bunch of different enterprises is
00:05:24it really that hard or our organizations sort of underestimating what it takes to do this right I'm look Alan I think it's actually hard and easy I think they say and and and this is where I think the transformational challenge comes from the kids very often the first
00:05:43steps are relatively easy the you know the initial automation in some deployment automation on application on proving some of that the configuration management so those at it comes down to the eighty twenty the the first eighty percent of automation are relatively easy to do the last twenty percent
00:06:02but you have to start really changing the way that you operate all the architecture or getting into I think that at all not trivial to automate unless you can get through that last topic you don't get all the benefits and I think that's where we see this kind
00:06:18of initial uptake it's it's easy we're making initial progress and then it gets into the kind of hard and maybe struggling where we you know there's not be the answer out there when you have to automate as a P. even you need to be integrated with you'll you'll
00:06:33see bill instance when you need to work with the systems that are not built for this and I think we lose the transformation at that point and we've done the easy bits and getting into the hobbits that them people just not at it's a bit like exercising when
00:06:50you get to that point a condom I saw you know I lost the first five killers really easily and all it gets hotter and hotter than they loose their with the patients with it I get it I I get it and you know what else were because I
00:07:02was glad I've written about this a barge is your first of all no one ever promise you it's easy if it was easy everyone would be doing it you know to the Max but number two I think at the very heart of DevOps is this a year of
00:07:18continuous improvement continue it's everything quick continuous improvement a month that and the idea behind continuous improvement is your continuously improving right so you learn from your mistakes and your proving your feedback loop simulator rating you interests you just don't integrate the software you interests all process and but
00:07:40that was so badly what it's also badly because it's so right but that you know but shame on them for thinking less than that I agree I did but it mean if you look back right there with the cycles where people were implementing an ERP system or CRM
00:08:01system and that was you know is three year program and then they were done and now we're telling them this thing here that we are asking you to do will never be done I guess to continuously doing this yeah I just crazy and all but it's one of
00:08:18your in it like I actually love doing that to me one of the best part of my job is when you start doing it and you start seeing all the unexpected problems and you can start moving forward and to me that's that's really fun if you if you
00:08:32set it up right yeah I I imagine I imagine but it's it's still hard to bear yes %HESITATION summer you know you're you're involved in the Asian APEC region right and you know traditionally look I've been in the internet business twenty five years and I remember when I
00:08:52first started the thought was well the US is way out ahead on the internet in Europe is probably twelve to eighteen months for all right in Asia pac is probably twelve to eighteen months are in Europe and Africa and South America are probably two to three years far
00:09:09in that you know in typical internet fashion that those time frames have been condensed tremendously I'm one may make the argument that Europe is especially when it comes to DevOps is probably every bit as advanced as as the US is if not more so in Asia pac is
00:09:29is is is not far behind are there what do you see of the sword Asia packed DevOps reach it yeah I think if you look at what the what the organization so I think you're right am I think what we have less than than US in Europe is
00:09:45that the kind of community that that I see and then in the US and Europe but I think that's partly because faucets just the distance is also much white idea I do we have local communities in Australia and around Singapore and Japan okay that'll be the end in
00:10:03Asia why community I think that's really the that the bid that perhaps feels a bit different here I'm if you look into the the different countries all the big organizations are doing things his business agile and evolves I can tell you from my experience that all the work
00:10:20to be a getting have at the flavor of that now and then it's a matter of you know how far up the dial it goes some people are really aggressive and some are trying to catch up got it got it from wait you know and and another is
00:10:39a common fallacy especially here in the US where reminds you that New Yorker magazine where you know the US is really really big on the rest of the world's tidy but it is god it's not like that the Asia pac region is not a homogeneous region where everyone
00:10:56is moving along at the same speed as far short of comes to DevOps adoption what what areas or what countries within the region you think are are sold out front which is Virgo and which ones are can you just catching our yeah I mean I can help with
00:11:14the only only speak to what I see but I'm a lot if my team spends time in all this in Australia I think that it certainly for me might might might help them yes as some of our big banks all all all telcos they they all talking about
00:11:30this but we are now seeing which I'm really excited about is that the kind of resources and that mining companies are starting to pick this up which we just use Australia item and it's a huge part of our economy yeah I'm a neighbor to some degree not is
00:11:44M. noticeboard into this initially which makes sense they're not in and custom of business they didn't have the same pressures as it cost a business where we see that speed every day yet the other countries that we spend a lot of time is is is Singapore and I
00:11:59think the the forward thinking government as this is a significant driver so when you see how they have structured their Hey they're the I. T. services is that I think a bit similar to what we we see this on the US what we saw here in Australia and
00:12:21there's a lot of kind of thought leadership coming from that and you just have to take man and the other one that we see is is is Hong Kong which perhaps makes sense as well as as one of the opposite that we have understood understood arm any your
00:12:36head check and then if you any of the one that I personally don't see as much but I I start seeing it now is the countries that are kind of on the fringes of out to Thailand and Indonesia Malaysia I think that it starts to get into that
00:12:51it is as well but it that's perhaps a little bit you all excellent I I you know I having been two sections of major back I don't disagree with you at all a similar to what I bring %HESITATION that being said so that that's where we are with
00:13:12Asia pac and and a little bit more about does times have you sent to tell us now at only twenty think to be honest hard for three times %HESITATION but it's it's definitely the event of the year for me I I love doing it this challenge was presenting
00:13:33is always you need to you need to prepare for that the work that goes into a good presentation yes well you know here let's give credit where credit is due I I think this is especially true in other genes events where you know just submitting your presentations not
00:13:53enough Jeanne contract you and works it with yet right and and there's something to be said for that now I think you have to do what I think that that holds the quality high and I think it's that I would make that event of its special or there's
00:14:11no end of pitches is no kind of general stories that that are not adding to the to the curriculum yep agreed agreed arm so let's let's talk a little bit about so you're not on the are you on the committee there are now now I'm not I know
00:14:36I'm trying to remember who from Accenture was on the DevOps does London mock Randall Marc Randall yes and she keeps mixing up mock with myself it's hilarious I see religion so who are you Sir when you got there must be something to it and I don't feel terrible
00:14:53so but you know does one tonight just for people who are wondering I believe is what twenty second to the twenty fourth or something like that right twenty fifth twenty sixth of July Monday and Tuesday in the end of June are you know I don't know if you're
00:15:09aware we're putting on a Dave said cops days later that week I believe on the twenty eighth are no I didn't know yes in London joint to John well is seen not myself and some of the other folks mark Miller from sounded right are spinning up Dave said
00:15:25cop stays with doing one in Singapore is a matter of fact we doing one at RSA in San Francisco would doing one at the tail end of genes of back end job you know because we we are increasingly seeing sort of the overlap or the integration of security
00:15:41into the DevOps process season thrilled with it %HESITATION but Jack being said let's let's turn a little bit away from does that we go back to the book what was it like kind of writing a book around DevOps like that you know it it's I mean you you
00:16:01have a head start because of your long history of blogging certainly but it's different on blogs and blog books a book right and yes absolutely yeah what what what was it like it was daunting in the beginning of a will be honest but I wasn't I wasn't sure
00:16:20that it would work out at the end the case %HESITATION edges ready say blog is in it you can have it done in one session right in what I love about blogging is it focuses your mind I give you the specific topic that you want to work on
00:16:33and you use that capital right off post about it and you do the research you you write it up and it focuses your mind on this have met two pages roughly off of material a book is that it is significantly longer and that means that you have to
00:16:48keep their the the story line in mind and I know you don't see don't want to conflict with yourself and yeah I think that moving very quickly it means if I write a book was now and then twelve instead of what a blog post where I say something
00:17:01slightly different that's because I've learned in a book you can't really afford that and then the the other thing that the book is that it's it's people have a different quality expectation of a book and that means the end of the the editing that goes on top the
00:17:17reviews that go into it the the president you said yourself on the to make every sentence on correct is is very very different but I'm I have to say I'm reasonably happy with the result that the entire I think I did okay very good very good humor go
00:17:36when we started I know I told you the fifteen minutes goes fast and we are we're all the fifteen minutes we we had you know some issues recording here but they will be fine of listen I'm looking forward to seeing you in just one about two months now
00:17:51oil with a more than two months almost three months will be what will be in London we'll see you there congratulations on the success of the book were looking forward to the audio version and and maybe we'll do a video in June that sounds perfect I'll be very
00:18:08much looking forward to that okay mercury a claim DevOps author DevOps expert censure DevOps leader and multiple times speaker reaching kids DevOps enterprise summit thanks for being our guest on this episode of DevOps chat and will speak to you soon thanks Alan okay this is eligible for double
00:18:30shot you just listen to it we'll see you again soon great day everyone

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