Full Transcript for Episode 125: Karen Read Part 2-a

[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, like it or not, I'm not a huge fan of her in general, but I think I think the courts got it right. 02:01.326 --> 02:03.127 [SPEAKER_00]: So you be the judge. 02:04.261 --> 02:08.864 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to hop right back into it, go right back into where we left off at Part One. 02:09.645 --> 02:11.787 [SPEAKER_00]: We were in the middle of the timeline. 02:12.727 --> 02:14.489 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, this case is very timeline heavy. 02:15.312 --> 02:17.553 [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of times thrown at you. 02:17.733 --> 02:21.975 [SPEAKER_00]: I tried to consolidate a bunch of things, so I will kind of blanket some things. 02:22.875 --> 02:27.578 [SPEAKER_00]: But I also wanted to put trail testimony and interview statements in with the timeline. 02:27.598 --> 02:30.259 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not hopping back and forth with the discrepancies. 02:30.799 --> 02:35.701 [SPEAKER_00]: So I try to point out all the discrepancies at the same time with the time that it happened. 02:37.162 --> 02:41.624 [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully I'm not confusing the shit out of you guys because it kind of confused the shit out of me. 02:42.804 --> 02:44.986 [SPEAKER_00]: But we left off it was right around two a.m. 02:46.247 --> 02:50.331 [SPEAKER_00]: This is right around the time that the plow truck driver was getting ready to come out. 02:50.731 --> 02:57.236 [SPEAKER_00]: So it about two, fifteen he left the yard and started to do his pass that he had done for three years. 02:58.497 --> 03:03.201 [SPEAKER_00]: Right after that at two, twenty, two, brain higgins receives a one second phone call from brain Albert. 03:04.471 --> 03:08.594 [SPEAKER_00]: Higgins calls him back, seventeen seconds later, and the call lasts twenty-two seconds. 03:08.714 --> 03:10.135 [SPEAKER_00]: So it wasn't actual phone call. 03:11.036 --> 03:16.159 [SPEAKER_00]: Higgins would actually deny making the call, and both men would deny speaking to each other initially. 03:16.920 --> 03:27.006 [SPEAKER_00]: They did come out and say that they were quote, butt dials, which I call bullshit, because if you have an iPhone, you know how hard it is to actually butt dial somebody. 03:27.887 --> 03:30.168 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's like seventeen butt dials in here. 03:30.208 --> 03:31.930 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know what the hell everybody was doing it to. 03:33.605 --> 03:37.008 [SPEAKER_00]: At two to twenty seven though, Jen McCabe does a search on her cell phone. 03:38.029 --> 03:43.614 [SPEAKER_00]: The search was as long to Diane called, assuming she spelled how wrong. 03:44.375 --> 03:47.298 [SPEAKER_00]: Now she denies making the search at this time. 03:47.918 --> 03:49.780 [SPEAKER_00]: This becomes a huge to do. 03:49.840 --> 03:56.206 [SPEAKER_00]: There are a lot of people that say that this case really hinged on what time this search was actually made. 03:57.166 --> 04:02.452 [SPEAKER_00]: So later on in trial the prosecution would get two digital forensic experts to testify. 04:02.472 --> 04:08.778 [SPEAKER_00]: They both said that the two twenty seven time stamp was the time that gent opened the search tab. 04:08.939 --> 04:11.361 [SPEAKER_00]: She was looking up her kids sports leg apparently. 04:13.023 --> 04:17.367 [SPEAKER_00]: They said that this was the time was the search tab opening not the actual search. 04:18.328 --> 04:25.652 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, the defense then pulls an expert who says that this is actually false and that time is when the search was made. 04:26.552 --> 04:29.313 [SPEAKER_00]: They also said that this among other things was deleted. 04:30.314 --> 04:33.075 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, Jen McCabe denied deleting the search. 04:34.436 --> 04:42.500 [SPEAKER_00]: She also denies deleting a multitude of phone calls, which is then proven to her with phone records that she actually did it. 04:43.220 --> 04:45.241 [SPEAKER_00]: And she still gives some bullshit answer. 04:46.288 --> 04:50.410 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, there was a vanity fair article, a huge one that Karen Reed did. 04:51.210 --> 05:03.256 [SPEAKER_00]: In that article, they actually got a PhD from Purdue's Department of Computer and Information Technology, who specializes in iPhone, artifacts, and the limitation of digital forensics. 05:04.256 --> 05:05.376 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what the fuck that means. 05:05.436 --> 05:07.277 [SPEAKER_00]: I can barely turn my phone on. 05:08.338 --> 05:15.501 [SPEAKER_00]: But he was brought into evaluate the prosecution's expert testimony and an affidavit from the Defense's expert Richard Green. 05:17.080 --> 05:30.050 [SPEAKER_00]: He would go on to say, quote, based on my research and expertise, I concur with what I see in the affidavit from Richard Green, basically saying that that search was actually made at two twenty seven and a bunch of shit got deleted. 05:31.361 --> 05:40.486 [SPEAKER_00]: He confirmed that a little bit more by saying that the timestamp for the search item is recorded and stored in the database, not the time of the tab opening. 05:41.146 --> 05:48.570 [SPEAKER_00]: And that green did actually verify it with multiple ways that most people overlook when verifying something along these lines. 05:49.950 --> 05:52.692 [SPEAKER_00]: So now we get the Cloud Driver. 05:53.872 --> 05:55.253 [SPEAKER_00]: This is Lucky Loughran. 05:55.453 --> 05:56.734 [SPEAKER_00]: I know I'm saying everybody's names wrong. 05:56.794 --> 05:57.154 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry. 05:59.973 --> 06:03.314 [SPEAKER_00]: He became kind of a big deal when it came to the trial. 06:03.334 --> 06:05.875 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people brought up his time discrepancies. 06:06.656 --> 06:09.537 [SPEAKER_00]: He did a couple interviews. 06:10.357 --> 06:14.158 [SPEAKER_00]: He was interviewed by the FBI, however, that statement was never made public. 06:15.119 --> 06:23.182 [SPEAKER_00]: In February of twenty-twenty-two, he was also interviewed by Paul McCowsky, who was a retired cab turned private

investigator hired by Kiran Reed. 06:24.322 --> 06:28.724 [SPEAKER_00]: On August seventh of twenty-twenty-three, he was interviewed by Aiden Turtle Boy Kearney. 06:29.744 --> 06:39.791 [SPEAKER_00]: And then on August tenth of twenty twenty three, he was finally interviewed by the investigators, Massachusetts State Troopers, Michael Proctor and Yuri Buchanik. 06:41.412 --> 06:43.953 [SPEAKER_00]: The investigators did not interview him for nineteen months. 06:44.854 --> 06:47.996 [SPEAKER_00]: This also was the only interview that was recorded. 06:49.355 --> 06:58.241 [SPEAKER_00]: No other witness interview was recorded at any point in time before or after this in the entire investigation, which I don't even understand. 07:00.383 --> 07:01.724 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand that at all. 07:02.684 --> 07:08.068 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's no way to prove confirmed deny anything along those lines of the witness statements. 07:08.228 --> 07:14.652 [SPEAKER_00]: And as you'll see coming up, there are so many discrepancies that can't be proved or disproved. 07:15.193 --> 07:16.834 [SPEAKER_00]: Because there's no fucking recording of it. 07:18.257 --> 07:25.023 [SPEAKER_00]: So for the most part in all of these interviews, he is pretty consistent in what he sets. 07:26.224 --> 07:32.609 [SPEAKER_00]: There's just a few time discrepancies with it, but like I said, for the most part, he's pretty consistent. 07:34.010 --> 07:37.613 [SPEAKER_00]: He says in all the interviews, he said the same route for three years. 07:38.634 --> 07:45.019 [SPEAKER_00]: He also stated that his training makes sure that he's always looking in front of him and from side to side. 07:45.970 --> 07:53.652 [SPEAKER_00]: He also says that at no point in time, he saw a body or anything in the Elverts lawn, and that he had good visibility from his position in the truck. 07:54.492 --> 08:05.094 [SPEAKER_00]: The big thing is to, he is consistent when saying when he first went on his route, it was not snowing heavily, that the snow didn't increase for a couple of hours. 08:06.254 --> 08:08.015 [SPEAKER_00]: Big, big thing here to know. 08:09.495 --> 08:16.522 [SPEAKER_00]: So he's consistent with when he leaves the lot and the route that he takes up and down fear view. 08:17.724 --> 08:28.334 [SPEAKER_00]: There are some questions during the testimony as to whether or not he's talking about looking down fear view road while the prosecutors are actually talking about driving down fear view road. 08:29.035 --> 08:32.659 [SPEAKER_00]: That's where they think some of the confusion lies with the times. 08:33.952 --> 08:40.876 [SPEAKER_00]: So he's also very consistent in saying at some point during his route, he looked down for your road and saw a fort edge in front of the Albert's home. 08:41.777 --> 08:43.037 [SPEAKER_00]: He did not go past. 08:44.378 --> 08:48.360 [SPEAKER_00]: He did not go down for your road to go down to see the fort edge. 08:48.400 --> 08:49.681 [SPEAKER_00]: He

did say the lights were off. 08:49.721 --> 08:51.062 [SPEAKER_00]: He couldn't see if it was occupied. 08:51.782 --> 08:54.624 [SPEAKER_00]: But it is their policy if occurs in the way of the plow. 08:55.124 --> 08:58.706 [SPEAKER_00]: they are to call the public works and then they will have the car towed. 08:59.927 --> 09:09.892 [SPEAKER_00]: At one point he said the forage was not in the way, but with another time he said he was being prettiest to the Albert's and didn't want the car towed obviously. 09:11.212 --> 09:28.065 [SPEAKER_00]: The biggest thing is he says during his trial testimony that approximately three hours after his three-fifteen to three-thirty pass, he looked on Fairview Road and figured out he would be unable to pass it due to first responders. 09:28.845 --> 09:32.206 [SPEAKER_00]: So that he stated then that the time was five, fifteen to five, thirty. 09:32.306 --> 09:36.286 [SPEAKER_00]: But if you add the three hours, it's really six, fifteen, two, six, thirty. 09:37.406 --> 09:39.867 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's just an error in addition. 09:39.887 --> 09:40.927 [SPEAKER_00]: That for bed. 09:41.387 --> 09:42.827 [SPEAKER_00]: We all can math, you know. 09:43.868 --> 09:48.588 [SPEAKER_00]: So biggest thing is though, he sees the four-dege and then he can't get down fear of you because of first responders. 09:48.968 --> 09:49.949 [SPEAKER_00]: Didn't see anything else. 09:51.309 --> 09:52.349 [SPEAKER_00]: So at four thirty a.m. 09:52.969 --> 09:54.009 [SPEAKER_00]: Karen wakes up Kaylee. 09:54.309 --> 09:55.690 [SPEAKER_00]: She's frantic and hysterical. 09:55.830 --> 09:58.130 [SPEAKER_00]: She tells Kaylee, John ever came home. 09:58.779 --> 10:01.723 [SPEAKER_00]: Kaylee then calls and text John and gets no answer. 10:03.025 --> 10:06.550 [SPEAKER_00]: At four fifty three Kaylee calls Jen McCabe at the request of Karen. 10:07.371 --> 10:10.896 [SPEAKER_00]: Jen with later say that this is when she learned, John didn't come home. 10:11.982 --> 10:21.390 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, according to the statement of case, and I believe I brought it up in part one, but I will give you just a brief. 10:22.231 --> 10:31.379 [SPEAKER_00]: So statement of case, it's a formal document filed in a civil litigation that outlines a party's position, including facts and legal arguments supporting their claim or defense. 10:31.840 --> 10:37.365 [SPEAKER_00]: So the statement of case became a thing later on when the old keeps filed a civil lawsuit against Karen. 10:40.362 --> 10:45.924 [SPEAKER_00]: So, according to the statement of case, Kaylee said that Karen changed her story several times while on the phone with Jen. 10:46.944 --> 10:52.925 [SPEAKER_00]: Initially, Karen said to Jen that her and John had gotten into an argument and she dropped him off. 10:53.566 --> 10:54.386 [SPEAKER_00]: That is per Kaylee. 10:55.446 --> 11:03.988 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, during Jen's January, twenty-ninth interview, Karen told her that John didn't come home and

she last saw him at waterfalls. 11:05.047 --> 11:11.576 [SPEAKER_00]: Jen then turns around and tells Karen, no, you and John left waterfalls together and then you came to the Albert's. 11:12.798 --> 11:19.987 [SPEAKER_00]: However, in her February first interview, Karen tells Jen that she left John at waterfalls. 11:20.950 --> 11:37.258 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, Jen didn't mention any argument between Karen and John in any statement or interview, but in the statement of case, it says, quote, defendant informed Jen that she and John got into an argument the last time she had seen him. 11:38.379 --> 11:40.580 [SPEAKER_00]: So somebody's put words in somebody's mouth. 11:41.660 --> 11:46.203 [SPEAKER_00]: At four fifty five, Julie Albert woke up to a missed call from Jen McCabe. 11:47.103 --> 11:48.344 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, per her interview, 11:49.398 --> 11:55.662 [SPEAKER_00]: This is how she found out John died, which is interesting because John hasn't even been found yet. 11:58.064 --> 12:07.330 [SPEAKER_00]: Five AM is the time, according to paramedic Katie McLaughlin, that Canton Fire and MS was dispatched to thirty-four if your view road. 12:07.891 --> 12:09.672 [SPEAKER_00]: However, the actual call was at six o'clock. 12:10.212 --> 12:12.694 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, people can't remember exact times. 12:13.394 --> 12:14.235 [SPEAKER_00]: It happens. 12:14.355 --> 12:15.896 [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, when you need to, you can't 12:17.306 --> 12:18.788 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, at five a.m. 12:18.928 --> 12:23.132 [SPEAKER_00]: also Karen starts calling some of John's friends to see if he went to somebody else's house. 12:23.713 --> 12:25.455 [SPEAKER_00]: One of those friends is Carrie Roberts. 12:26.536 --> 12:36.126 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, according to her January twenty ninth interview, Carrie said that Karen told her in the phone call that John didn't come home and that she was worried. 12:37.458 --> 12:52.003 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, according to practice report and her, excuse me, practice report of his February first phone interview with Carrie Roberts, she said that Karen told her, quote, I wonder if he's dead. 12:52.343 --> 12:54.284 [SPEAKER_00]: It's snowing he got hit by a plow. 12:55.584 --> 12:57.945 [SPEAKER_00]: Not a single part of that was mentioned in her first interview. 12:59.291 --> 13:08.021 [SPEAKER_00]: Carrie then makes calls to can't police non-emergency number to ask if there's any plow accidents and then calls goods marathon hospital to ask the same end if John was there. 13:09.293 --> 13:20.101 [SPEAKER_00]: after she hangs up with these phone calls, carry heads to Jen McCabe's house and right around the same time at about five o'clock Karen leaves John's house and her SUV to also head to Jen's. 13:21.022 --> 13:27.086 [SPEAKER_00]: We know this because there's ring camera video and it actually shows Karen backing into John's car in the driveway. 13:27.767 --> 13:29.848 [SPEAKER_00]: You can see the car kind of jossle a little bit. 13:30.269 --> 13:36.253 [SPEAKER_00]: It's unknown if Karen even knew she hit him hit the the traverse at the time, but then she drives away. 13:37.620 --> 13:48.923 [SPEAKER_00]: At five eleven a car consistent with Karen's SUV was seen on surveillance driving past the Canton town library towards waterfalls and a couple minutes later it seemed driving back in the other direction. 13:50.163 --> 13:54.164 [SPEAKER_00]: At five twenty three Karen leaves John of Waste Manel saying quote John, where are you? 13:55.684 --> 13:59.605 [SPEAKER_00]: At five thirty five Karen arrives at Jen McCabe's house. 14:00.406 --> 14:01.726 [SPEAKER_00]: Carrie arrives shortly after. 14:02.825 --> 14:09.567 [SPEAKER_00]: General later testified that she didn't know Carrie was coming until she pulled up and said, Karen, what are you doing? 14:11.267 --> 14:18.909 [SPEAKER_00]: Now there's some discrepancies with who picked up who drove who there's a few different versions. 14:19.069 --> 14:24.731 [SPEAKER_00]: Two of the sergeants police reports stated that Carrie picked up Jen and Karen, but doesn't mention where. 14:26.215 --> 14:31.797 [SPEAKER_00]: According to Carrie's January twenty ninth interview, Carrie met Karen and Jen. 14:33.137 --> 14:37.718 [SPEAKER_00]: Excuse me, at Jen's house, and then she then followed them to John's house. 14:38.839 --> 14:49.502 [SPEAKER_00]: She did note in that interview that Karen was still hysterical and probably still intoxicated, but that she followed Karen's SUV being driven by Jen in wide out conditions. 14:50.865 --> 14:56.947 [SPEAKER_00]: However, she would testify in court later that she met Jen and Karen at Johns House. 14:58.527 --> 15:04.489 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, according to Jen McKabes, January, twenty ninth interview, Carrie met her and Karen at Johns House. 15:04.829 --> 15:14.192 [SPEAKER_00]: So those two met, but in another interview, Jen said that Carrie met them at her house, then the three got into Carrie's car to keep looking. 15:15.552 --> 15:20.574 [SPEAKER_00]: So we know that they ended up back at thirty more fair view road in Carrie's car. 15:22.054 --> 15:27.599 [SPEAKER_00]: On the January twenty ninth interview with Jen, they go to thirty four-fear view road at Karen's insistence. 15:28.680 --> 15:34.024 [SPEAKER_00]: Carrie would later testify that Karen quote really wanted to go to Fairview to check for John. 15:35.306 --> 15:40.490 [SPEAKER_00]: After Jen told Karen that she watched her and John pull up. 15:42.692 --> 15:43.873 [SPEAKER_00]: So she admits they were there. 15:45.294 --> 15:47.656 [SPEAKER_00]: At six o'clock three, they arrive at thirty four-fear view road. 15:48.176 --> 15:49.838 [SPEAKER_00]: Karen calls John on phone. 15:51.102 --> 15:52.102 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously he doesn't answer. 15:53.143 --> 15:56.144 [SPEAKER_00]: Carrie would testify that Karen then screamed quote, there he is. 15:56.464 --> 15:57.005 [SPEAKER_00]: There he is. 15:57.165 --> 15:59.806 [SPEAKER_00]: Let

me the fuck out of the car and started kicking the door. 16:00.866 --> 16:02.387 [SPEAKER_00]: Carrie and Jen didn't see anything. 16:03.808 --> 16:11.311 [SPEAKER_00]: Karen then ran to quote, a mound of snow to which Carrie said at some point quote, I realized it was the shape of a body. 16:12.752 --> 16:13.812 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's more discrepancies. 16:14.953 --> 16:19.515 [SPEAKER_00]: One report says that at this point, John was found under six inches of snow. 16:21.122 --> 16:25.324 [SPEAKER_00]: Other sources say that John was covered in snow. 16:26.524 --> 16:37.348 [SPEAKER_00]: The police report states, Jen McCabe said, John was under six inches of snow and Carrie would testify that John was under three to four inches of snow. 16:38.208 --> 16:38.908 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's the problem. 16:39.489 --> 16:48.932 [SPEAKER_00]: According to news reports, live footage, the weather channel and multiple Facebook posts along with what is seen in the in a crime scene photo. 16:50.713 --> 16:57.557 [SPEAKER_00]: All say that the snow was no deeper than two and a half inches at this time, anywhere in the area. 16:58.457 --> 17:00.538 [SPEAKER_00]: So how the fuck does you have six inches of snow on them? 17:00.598 --> 17:02.019 [SPEAKER_00]: If there's only two and a half falling. 17:04.080 --> 17:07.782 [SPEAKER_00]: So Karen then throws herself on John for warmth. 17:08.163 --> 17:12.085 [SPEAKER_00]: Carrie tells her to move so she can start CPR and tells Jen to call nine more one. 17:13.566 --> 17:15.687 [SPEAKER_00]: At six o'clock three, Jen calls nine one one. 17:16.810 --> 17:23.152 [SPEAKER_00]: She says that they found a man unresponsive in the snow and states, quote, we just flipped him over. 17:23.452 --> 17:24.553 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if he's breathing. 17:24.893 --> 17:25.913 [SPEAKER_00]: I think he passed away. 17:27.234 --> 17:34.716 [SPEAKER_00]: Carrie starts compressions, said later that there was glass under John, which, I guess if they flipped him, she would have seen. 17:35.617 --> 17:36.637 [SPEAKER_00]: Karen does mouth-mouth. 17:37.657 --> 17:44.660 [SPEAKER_00]: In Jen's February first interview, she states that John was on his back and his phone was under him. 17:46.197 --> 17:50.621 [SPEAKER_00]: that they flip them over was the on his back, how the fuck would you know his phone was under him if he was on his back. 17:52.002 --> 18:03.212 [SPEAKER_00]: She then says, excuse me, in an addendum to the January twenty ninth interview report that Karen allegedly yelled, quote, oh my god, did I hit it. 18:04.774 --> 18:09.238 [SPEAKER_00]: At six o'clock in the ambulance is dispatch at six o'clock, seven, the ambulance goes and route. 18:12.173 --> 18:12.634 [SPEAKER_00]: Excuse me. 18:13.594 --> 18:20.639 [SPEAKER_00]: At six o'clock eight, Sergeant Michael Link is called to the scene, and Jen takes a screenshot of Brian Albert's contact info. 18:20.680 --> 18:21.820 [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody really knows why. 18:22.861 -->

18:26.144 [SPEAKER_00]: Shortly after that, the first officer Steven Saraph arrives on scene. 18:26.744 --> 18:32.068 [SPEAKER_00]: He noted that he observed three females waving him down from the front yard area. 18:33.912 --> 18:42.254 [SPEAKER_00]: At six, fourteen, the Amelns arrives on scene and at six, fifteen, they report that they have loaded John into the ambulance, which is not abnormal. 18:42.434 --> 18:43.534 [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's called out. 18:44.134 --> 18:49.296 [SPEAKER_00]: He's called, get him in the back of the ambulance, like get him, get it warm, get him warm, start working him. 18:50.136 --> 18:52.296 [SPEAKER_00]: Because we have a thing. 18:53.217 --> 18:54.377 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not dead until you're warm and dead. 18:55.401 --> 19:01.965 [SPEAKER_00]: Hypoethermia is actually used now in cardiac arrest to help aid in survival rates. 19:02.266 --> 19:05.488 [SPEAKER_00]: It slows everything down, works in your favor. 19:05.728 --> 19:09.630 [SPEAKER_00]: So they cannot pronounce anybody until they are warm and dead. 19:11.552 --> 19:16.015 [SPEAKER_00]: In Jen McKabes, February first interview, she said that Karen was screaming and then comb. 19:16.915 --> 19:20.097 [SPEAKER_00]: Then she asked Jen to say, our father prayer together. 19:20.117 --> 19:24.040 [SPEAKER_00]: And then start screaming at Jen to do a Google search about hypoethermia. 19:26.528 --> 19:35.255 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is when Jen says at six twenty three that she actually makes the search for she attempts to search how long to die in the cold. 19:35.816 --> 19:38.518 [SPEAKER_00]: The first search actually came up is how long to digest food. 19:39.118 --> 19:40.039 [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever fit fingers. 19:40.940 --> 19:45.864 [SPEAKER_00]: The actual search was at six twenty four per the commonwealth and genma cave. 19:46.584 --> 19:49.226 [SPEAKER_00]: Same search that we just said was done at two twenty seven. 19:50.928 --> 19:56.112 [SPEAKER_00]: At six twenty seven the ambulance leaves the scene with John and they are in route to good Samaritan hospital. 19:58.121 --> 20:06.686 [SPEAKER_00]: At six thirty, Brian Higgins is woken up by phone calls from the Canton Police Chief Ken Berkhaus Berkowitz, excuse me, and by Brian Albert. 20:07.686 --> 20:14.590 [SPEAKER_00]: Higgins said that he actually ignored the chief, but then answered Brian's call, and this is when he learns of the situation with John. 20:15.970 --> 20:24.395 [SPEAKER_00]: Also at six thirty, Jen McCabe says this is when she enters Brian and Nicole Albert's home goes into their bedroom to tell them about John. 20:25.618 --> 20:40.748 [SPEAKER_00]: However, at six thirty four, this is when Jen is seen on DASH cam actually walking up to the house and entering the home after being sent in by Sergeant Lake, Lank, to wake up the homeless. 20:40.768 --> 20:50.915 [SPEAKER_00]: In the midst of all of this, there are several phone calls that Jen McKay ever received or makes that are deleted. 20:51.693 --> 20:53.013 [SPEAKER_00]: Most of the phone calls are answered. 20:53.193 --> 20:57.795 [SPEAKER_00]: There are actual timelines of the phone calls, you know, that they last two minutes, three minutes, whatever. 20:58.735 --> 21:03.797 [SPEAKER_00]: She deletes the vast majority of them and then later says that she didn't delete anything. 21:04.117 --> 21:15.080 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's so many that I don't want to give all of them, but just know, these people are constantly on the phone now from here and for the next week, they're on the phone constantly with each other. 21:16.750 --> 21:21.273 [SPEAKER_00]: At six or seven, Carrie and Karen leave the scene in Carrie's vehicle. 21:21.574 --> 21:23.716 [SPEAKER_00]: Carrie is going to take Karen up to the hospital. 21:24.516 --> 21:31.482 [SPEAKER_00]: And she would later say that Karen told her in the car, quote, if anything happens to John, I'm going to kill myself, you need to take care of these kids. 21:33.364 --> 21:37.808 [SPEAKER_00]: At six thirty nine, the lights go on inside of thirty thirty four if you wrote. 21:39.320 --> 21:48.105 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, Nicole Albert would later testify that she and Brian slept through all the commotion outside, and that she didn't know about John until Jen came in and told them. 21:49.326 --> 21:53.168 [SPEAKER_00]: By the time they came down stairs, then John and Karen had both been transported from the scene. 21:53.908 --> 22:01.093 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, there was a neighbor of the Albert's who was taking pictures of the scene, and he pretty much said that's bullshit. 22:01.133 --> 22:03.754 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no way that they could not have woken up by this. 22:04.214 --> 22:08.016 [SPEAKER_00]: The entire fucking neighborhood woke up and their bedroom window faces the street. 22:09.117 --> 22:12.619 [SPEAKER_00]: So drink. 22:13.660 --> 22:14.680 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's six forty two. 22:14.700 --> 22:19.883 [SPEAKER_00]: An ambulance is dispatch for Karen for the request of a section twelve. 22:20.784 --> 22:27.367 [SPEAKER_00]: Now a section twelve in Massachusetts is similar to an involuntary petition in Illinois. 22:27.387 --> 22:33.631 [SPEAKER_00]: In involuntary petition means you fill out paperwork basically saying somebody is a danger to themselves or others. 22:34.851 --> 22:37.673 [SPEAKER_00]: It makes them go for a mandatory sake eval. 22:38.579 --> 22:49.210 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, in Massachusetts, this can only be initiated by a physician qualified psychologist, advanced practice RNs, licensed clinical social workers, and police officers. 22:50.251 --> 22:52.033 [SPEAKER_00]: In Illinois, EMS can do it. 22:53.114 --> 22:56.698 [SPEAKER_00]: EMS actually does it more than PD Massachusetts, not so much. 22:57.719 --> 23:03.220 [SPEAKER_00]: From there, though, the treating physician then determines if the patient needs to be hospitalized for up to seventy two hours. 23:04.260 --> 23:15.103 [SPEAKER_00]: So the reason for

this was, Karen's parents had contacted police because Karen had attempted to call and had actually spoken to them a few times throughout this whole thing. 23:15.883 --> 23:21.044 [SPEAKER_00]: They had concerns about Karen's mental health and wanted her evaluated. 23:22.879 --> 23:32.107 [SPEAKER_00]: So at six, forty four, Massachusetts State Police Surgeon, Yuri Buchnick received a phone call about the body in the snow and a possible death. 23:32.787 --> 23:40.053 [SPEAKER_00]: Now in Canton because it's so small, they tend to call these state police in four death investigations, shit like that. 23:41.687 --> 23:46.829 [SPEAKER_00]: At six, four, five, the ambulance arrives at the hospital and transfers care to the ER staff two minutes later. 23:46.849 --> 23:50.311 [SPEAKER_00]: At this point, John is a systolic and hypothermic. 23:50.351 --> 23:51.251 [SPEAKER_00]: So he is flatline. 23:51.271 --> 23:52.672 [SPEAKER_00]: He has no heart rate whatsoever. 23:53.272 --> 23:56.293 [SPEAKER_00]: And his body temperature was eighty point one degrees Fahrenheit. 23:56.773 --> 23:57.894 [SPEAKER_00]: So he is fucking cold. 24:01.807 --> 24:08.992 [SPEAKER_00]: There are a bunch of phone calls now, back and forth between Jen Brian Nicole, all the whole gaggle of them. 24:09.052 --> 24:21.361 [SPEAKER_00]: Right around seven o'clock though, a state detective actually speaks to Chief Berkowitz and they pull in a district attorney to talk about Canton PD recusing itself because of the obvious situation. 24:22.301 --> 24:25.824 [SPEAKER_00]: This is around the same time they map the cave also arrives at the Albert home. 24:27.205 --> 24:30.167 [SPEAKER_00]: At seven o'clock one, the sun rises in Canton. 24:32.128 --> 24:39.273 [SPEAKER_00]: Perlator testimony at seven, fifteen, Higgins says this is when he arrived at the Albert's and he stays less than an hour. 24:40.414 --> 24:45.557 [SPEAKER_00]: However, at seven, twenty and at seven, thirty, there are phone calls between Brian Albert and Brian Higgins. 24:45.978 --> 24:46.798 [SPEAKER_00]: Perl the phone records. 24:47.479 --> 24:49.460 [SPEAKER_00]: Why the fuck would you call each other if you're in the same house? 24:51.562 --> 24:59.968 [SPEAKER_00]: So, according to later reports, Higgins actually arrives at the house between seven, thirty and eight, which makes more sense with phone calls, obviously. 25:01.185 --> 25:06.689 [SPEAKER_00]: At seven, fifty, forty-six-year-old John is pronounced dead at the hospital. 25:07.449 --> 25:10.171 [SPEAKER_00]: Just one minute later, Karen comes in via ambulance. 25:11.772 --> 25:18.277 [SPEAKER_00]: At seven, fifty-nine, the state PD officially assumes jurisdiction over this death investigation. 25:20.245 --> 25:23.367 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, here's a few more time discrepancies. 25:24.267 --> 25:33.632 [SPEAKER_00]: Right around eight o'clock, according to trial testimony, Julie Albert is seen at the Albert home by Nicole Albert putting donuts in Ryan Albert

Junior's car. 25:34.272 --> 25:36.133 [SPEAKER_00]: This is tradition for his birthday. 25:36.433 --> 25:37.173 [SPEAKER_00]: Does it every year? 25:38.614 --> 25:39.935 [SPEAKER_00]: Shortly after that, she goes home. 25:41.075 --> 25:41.675 [SPEAKER_00]: Chris wakes up. 25:41.936 --> 25:43.556 [SPEAKER_00]: She then tells him John's dead. 25:43.596 --> 25:44.797 [SPEAKER_00]: They need to go to Fairview Road. 25:46.702 --> 25:55.008 [SPEAKER_00]: According to interviews though, Julie is seen putting the donuts in Brian Junior's car at eight thirty. 25:55.849 --> 26:02.334 [SPEAKER_00]: Brian Senior opens the door and then, quote, insists she comes in and is told that there has been an accident. 26:05.056 --> 26:08.739 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, at eight fifty nine, Jen McCabe calls Sergeant Link. 26:09.139 --> 26:11.581 [SPEAKER_00]: This call is answered and then deleted. 26:12.702 --> 26:20.469 [SPEAKER_00]: One minute later, she calls him back and she asks him to come back to Fairview Road that she remembered something she's unknown, you know, she doesn't know, he's aware of it. 26:22.150 --> 26:30.638 [SPEAKER_00]: Another lieutenant says this is actually when they arrived, back at Fairview, and Jen says that while driving, Karen said, quote, I hope I didn't hit him. 26:32.039 --> 26:36.703 [SPEAKER_00]: She then tells them she heard Karen say on the scene, I hit him, I hit him, I hit him. 26:38.100 --> 26:42.623 [SPEAKER_00]: Karen would later say in a nightline interview that this was actually pre-seated. 26:42.643 --> 26:48.328 [SPEAKER_00]: Excuse me, pre-seated by a did and proceeded by a question mark. 26:48.808 --> 26:53.751 [SPEAKER_00]: She was basically like, did I, like, bump him in and capacitate him and then he passed out? 26:54.392 --> 26:57.134 [SPEAKER_00]: She's saying it was a question, not a statement. 26:58.675 --> 27:06.561 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, between nine and nine thirty, according to trial testimony, Chris and Julie Elberg arrive at the Elberg's home and their 27:07.305 --> 27:12.468 [SPEAKER_00]: They find Brian and Nicole, Jen and Matt McCabe, and then Higgins all sitting at the kitchen table. 27:13.889 --> 27:19.011 [SPEAKER_00]: Between nine and ten, the doctor in the ERE evaluates Karen, orders blood work. 27:19.992 --> 27:28.617 [SPEAKER_00]: Her blood alcohol level, which is actually a standard test for section twelve, comes back at a level of point zero seven eight to point zero nine two. 27:29.357 --> 27:32.199 [SPEAKER_00]: She just quit drinking at, you know, twelve thirty, whatever. 27:33.510 --> 27:38.435 [SPEAKER_00]: They then get a forensic tax ecologist to later testify his name is on Nicholas Roberts. 27:38.836 --> 27:49.727 [SPEAKER_00]: He says that Karen's peak blood alcohol content, which is basically like her most drunkist, was a point one three five to a point two nine two. 27:50.347 --> 27:54.251 [SPEAKER_00]: Now this is based on PD telling him that her last drink was at twelve forty five. 27:55.435 --> 28:00.118 [SPEAKER_00]: which is a little bit later than she actually says it was because at this point, she's already home. 28:00.918 --> 28:07.362 [SPEAKER_00]: But the stretch between the blood alcohol content is obscene to me. 28:07.482 --> 28:11.785 [SPEAKER_00]: Because like, point one three five is like, all right, you're stumbling. 28:12.185 --> 28:14.327 [SPEAKER_00]: You're probably, you're maybe bumping into shit. 28:14.907 --> 28:18.169 [SPEAKER_00]: Point two, nine, two is like, you're passing out pissing on yourself. 28:18.309 --> 28:20.610 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a huge fucking difference. 28:20.650 --> 28:24.172 [SPEAKER_00]: And I could not find how he got such a big 28:25.233 --> 28:27.874 [SPEAKER_00]: Number, like I don't know why the numbers so big. 28:29.575 --> 28:30.755 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's the difference between. 28:30.815 --> 28:31.376 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like double. 28:32.156 --> 28:33.676 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you have double in between there? 28:35.197 --> 28:39.619 [SPEAKER_00]: So the ER doc eventually says, listen, she's actively grieving. 28:39.719 --> 28:40.719 [SPEAKER_00]: She's not suicidal. 28:40.739 --> 28:41.680 [SPEAKER_00]: She's not going to hurt herself. 28:41.760 --> 28:43.100 [SPEAKER_00]: He ends up discharging her. 28:44.901 --> 28:50.103 [SPEAKER_00]: Right around ten o'clock, practice and if you connect a rivet can't PD, they want to speak with other officers. 28:51.753 --> 28:58.375 [SPEAKER_00]: They then say they go to the hospital to interview the first responders, which if they're still at the hospital three hours later, I'd be in a world of shit if I did that. 28:59.415 --> 29:01.736 [SPEAKER_00]: But they're going to see the body and collect the clothes. 29:02.456 --> 29:10.198 [SPEAKER_00]: They then go to the McCabes for an interview in that time brain Albert arrives at the McCabes and he's also interviewed. 29:10.638 --> 29:12.519 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's a big thing too that they question. 29:13.164 --> 29:16.845 [SPEAKER_00]: later on, the defense with question is, why is everybody being interviewed together? 29:17.385 --> 29:18.525 [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody's being separated. 29:19.265 --> 29:22.066 [SPEAKER_00]: They're all being interviewed together, and nothing's recorded. 29:23.846 --> 29:26.627 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's obviously questionable. 29:28.567 --> 29:32.728 [SPEAKER_00]: So they're inventorying the clothes about ten, thirty, they double-bag them. 29:33.228 --> 29:36.629 [SPEAKER_00]: Mechanic notices that one of the shoes is one of John Shoes is missing. 29:37.169 --> 29:40.170 [SPEAKER_00]: So he tells Proctor to contact the medics to see if they still have it. 29:41.292 --> 29:44.013 [SPEAKER_00]: Proctor went on to describe the clothing and the injuries. 29:44.734 --> 29:49.576 [SPEAKER_00]: He said John had jeans in orange t-shirt, a long sleeve shirt and boxers. 29:50.436 --> 29:54.378 [SPEAKER_00]: He stated that they were, quote, saturated and contained blood and

vomit. 29:55.538 --> 30:04.122 [SPEAKER_00]: He also describes six bloodied lacerations varying in length from the right arm extending from the forearm to the bicep, all varying in length. 30:04.923 --> 30:09.825 [SPEAKER_00]: Both eyes were black and blue and swollen shut and there was a laceration to the right eyelid area. 30:12.034 --> 30:20.087 [SPEAKER_00]: Around this time, also Carrie Roberts goes to BrainTree to pick up John's parents and this is when she finds out that John has actually been pronounced dead. 30:20.848 --> 30:21.650 [SPEAKER_00]: John's mom tells her. 30:23.013 --> 30:33.321 [SPEAKER_00]: At ten forty one, you can it calls the medical exam in the office and states the case is now being treated as a suspicious death due to a possible domestic situation that happened. 30:34.001 --> 30:39.866 [SPEAKER_00]: It was alleged that John was possibly struck in the face with a cocktail glass. 30:40.546 --> 30:43.869 [SPEAKER_00]: There was broken pieces of a cocktail glass found around him. 30:46.391 --> 30:51.635 [SPEAKER_00]: At eleven thirty, proctor and mechanic arrive at the McCabe residence to start their interview with them. 30:53.700 --> 30:56.461 [SPEAKER_00]: Around noon, Karen and her dad go to John's house. 30:58.141 --> 30:59.842 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, John's brother Paul was there. 30:59.862 --> 31:06.263 [SPEAKER_00]: He said that Karen didn't want to see the kids, but she didn't really interact with them and was only there for thirty minutes. 31:07.324 --> 31:13.265 [SPEAKER_00]: Karen would tell Vanity Fair later that John's parents and his brother, Reth House, after just getting back from my dean, the body. 31:14.006 --> 31:19.307 [SPEAKER_00]: Karen asked what he looked like and Paul said, quote, he looks like he went five rounds with Mike Tyson. 31:21.261 --> 31:26.765 [SPEAKER_00]: not really like you got hit by a car, but like you got two of fight. 31:29.147 --> 31:35.612 [SPEAKER_00]: So around twelve, twenty, after Jen's done being interviewed, she calls Brian Albert. 31:36.433 --> 31:42.097 [SPEAKER_00]: Shortly after that phone call, him and his wife Nicole show up at the McCabe's and they're also interviewed there. 31:42.297 --> 31:43.878 [SPEAKER_00]: So again, a group interview. 31:45.519 --> 31:48.342 [SPEAKER_00]: At one o'clock, Paul's wife Erin calls Karen. 31:49.500 --> 31:50.941 [SPEAKER_00]: She's asking what the hell happened. 31:51.121 --> 31:57.424 [SPEAKER_00]: And Karen actually makes a statement that Paul would later save this is what really solidified Karen's guilt to him. 31:58.064 --> 32:00.285 [SPEAKER_00]: She told Erin to quote, remember the bad times. 32:01.585 --> 32:02.706 [SPEAKER_00]: Karen would later save it. 32:02.766 --> 32:09.409 [SPEAKER_00]: She was just trying to do anything to not miss or more in John and that she was just trying to process what had happened. 32:10.979 --> 32:11.860 [SPEAKER_00]: right around three, thirty. 32:12.640 --> 32:22.369 [SPEAKER_00]: Karen starts Googling DUI lawyers because now she's pretty much coming to the conclusion being told what not that you got drunk and you hate your boyfriend. 32:23.870 --> 32:26.932 [SPEAKER_00]: Her dad in the meantime is also searching for criminal defense attorneys. 32:26.972 --> 32:28.213 [SPEAKER_00]: They're both looking for the same thing. 32:28.474 --> 32:30.495 [SPEAKER_00]: They come across David Yennetti. 32:31.736 --> 32:36.520 [SPEAKER_00]: This guy spent the first decade of his career as a prosecutor and then as an ADA. 32:38.462 --> 32:39.683 [SPEAKER_00]: Karen actually retains him. 32:40.748 --> 32:44.350 [SPEAKER_00]: And she says that she's suspected of drunkenly hitting her boyfriend. 32:44.890 --> 32:48.692 [SPEAKER_00]: He tells her to immediately prepare for arrest. 32:49.552 --> 32:58.156 [SPEAKER_00]: He then drafts up an email letter to the district attorney in the state police informing them that he was representing her and says, please don't arrest her. 32:58.196 --> 32:59.016 [SPEAKER_00]: We will surrender. 32:59.036 --> 33:00.797 [SPEAKER_00]: That's just what we're going to do. 33:03.092 --> 33:11.295 [SPEAKER_00]: At two-fifteen, Matt McCabe sends out a group text message between him, Jen, Brian Albert, and Nicole Albert. 33:12.595 --> 33:16.196 [SPEAKER_00]: The first text from him says, quote, tell them the guy you never went in the house. 33:17.236 --> 33:19.577 [SPEAKER_00]: Brian Albert responds, quote, exactly. 33:20.758 --> 33:23.658 [SPEAKER_00]: Then Jen says, quote, she's telling them everything. 33:24.359 --> 33:28.820 [SPEAKER_00]: While she's sending this text, Carrie Roberts is giving an interview to a TV news station. 33:31.105 --> 33:43.797 [SPEAKER_00]: At about two thirty, a proctor and mechanic contact, Dayton, Massachusetts police officer and Nicholas Burroughs to inform him that they are on their way to a residence in Dayton, three forty five country he'll drive. 33:43.817 --> 33:46.720 [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually Karen's parents house where she's at. 33:47.501 --> 33:53.686 [SPEAKER_00]: They say they're coming to speak to a party and retrieve a vehicle involved in an accident in Canton, quote yesterday morning. 33:54.447 --> 33:56.249 [SPEAKER_00]: They then said it was involved in homicide. 33:57.610 --> 34:00.632 [SPEAKER_00]: The drive from Canton to Dayton is forty seven minutes. 34:01.973 --> 34:05.615 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe a little bit longer because of the snow, but thrown it out there. 34:07.056 --> 34:11.118 [SPEAKER_00]: At three o'clock, Proctor calls Officer Barrow's two tell him that he is ten minutes out. 34:13.473 --> 34:22.018 [SPEAKER_00]: At approximately three, ten, these two tell Karen that they want info, they want information of the events of the last twenty four hours. 34:22.478 --> 34:24.279 [SPEAKER_00]: Karen says she doesn't want to go into detail. 34:25.019 --> 34:32.464 [SPEAKER_00]: All she would tell them was that her and John argued over what she gave the kids for breakfast

and she was drinking vodka soda at the bar while the guys were drinking beer. 34:33.544 --> 34:36.186 [SPEAKER_00]: She says she went home after dropping John off. 34:36.326 --> 34:36.986 [SPEAKER_00]: She wanted to go home. 34:37.026 --> 34:37.987 [SPEAKER_00]: She had stomach issues. 34:38.667 --> 34:40.348 [SPEAKER_00]: She told them she made a three point turn. 34:41.656 --> 34:48.479 [SPEAKER_00]: This was the first time she had mentioned it, it's actually the last time it's mentioned, but she refuses to describe it in detail. 34:49.759 --> 34:55.502 [SPEAKER_00]: She said she first saw the broken tail light in the morning and didn't know how it got there when they asked her about it. 34:57.482 --> 35:08.228 [SPEAKER_00]: And about four o'clock, Higgins is recorded being keycard, access entering the Canton PD celly port, which is where it's like the key calls that a cut through, which it kind of is. 35:08.289 --> 35:12.391 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's where the squad curse pull in, it's where they pull in with prisoners, they're all called celly ports. 35:14.113 --> 35:22.156 [SPEAKER_00]: So now here's the timeline that gets a little funky again, and Proctor would actually admit to fucking upset timeline. 35:23.097 --> 35:29.759 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, at four, twelve, according to Dietin Police and the Reed's Ring camera, Karen's SUV is towed from the driveway by Diamond Toing. 35:30.640 --> 35:39.944 [SPEAKER_00]: Karen, her parents, and Dietin Police, state that the regular tailgate tailgate excuse me, was cracked just cracked. 35:41.464 --> 35:42.385 [SPEAKER_00]: At four, sixteen, 35:43.624 --> 35:50.707 [SPEAKER_00]: According to Dite and Police and the Ring camera, this is one factor and you can leave the read home to follow the tow truck. 35:52.468 --> 36:00.192 [SPEAKER_00]: Now according to practice initial affidavid, human becanic arrive at the read home at four thirty. 36:01.052 --> 36:03.734 [SPEAKER_00]: They arrive there to interview Karen and Caesar car and phone. 36:04.494 --> 36:10.397 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is literally fourteen minutes after they actually are caught on video leaving. 36:12.123 --> 36:39.645 [SPEAKER_00]: They say when they arrive they sell large black SUV registered to Karen Reed in the driveway and they observed that the right or excuse me that the rear passenger tail light was quote shattered and there was a large red plastic piece missing The vehicle is then seized at five thirty and Dite and police obviously called diamond to transport and Excuse me, they followed behind the toe from the resonance to Canton PD 36:41.498 --> 36:48.663 [SPEAKER_00]: At five thirty one, this is one proctor and mechanic are actually seen arriving at Kent and PD with the toe and the SUV. 36:49.444 --> 36:54.027 [SPEAKER_00]: So you can't take longer than a minute because obviously it's forty seven minute drive with no snow. 36:55.489 --> 37:05.456 [SPEAKER_00]: Now at five forty five, the Massachusetts State Cert team, which is the special emergency response team arrive at thirty four a few road to conduct another search. 37:06.797 --> 37:09.419 [SPEAKER_00]: They report obviously late in weather is working against them. 37:10.348 --> 37:20.413 [SPEAKER_00]: At this point now, approximately, twenty two inches of snow had fallen in the area and the area was still currently covered by a mega band of snow, which means it's dropping two inches an hour. 37:21.114 --> 37:22.214 [SPEAKER_00]: These are white-out conditions. 37:22.434 --> 37:23.655 [SPEAKER_00]: They're continuing through the night. 37:23.915 --> 37:27.577 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not really looking to find anything. 37:28.477 --> 37:28.878 [SPEAKER_00]: However, 37:29.918 --> 37:31.539 [SPEAKER_00]: They ended up finding John's other shoe. 37:32.880 --> 37:34.161 [SPEAKER_00]: Two pieces of red plastic. 37:34.781 --> 37:38.223 [SPEAKER_00]: One piece of clear plastic consistent with a tail light from Karen's car. 37:39.724 --> 37:44.206 [SPEAKER_00]: Now Karen would later say that she felt the times were kind of fucked up by a proctor. 37:45.207 --> 37:54.292 [SPEAKER_00]: In an attempt to show that the car was already at the PD when the pieces were found because this was the only physical evidence connecting her to actually hitting him. 37:56.154 --> 38:01.839 [SPEAKER_00]: After the search, state troopers to brief a Kent and PD, this is when they learn that Kent and PD will be recusing itself. 38:04.342 --> 38:10.108 [SPEAKER_00]: At ten, fifty, three, PM, the day-ob, Praktor begins fucking up. 38:10.949 --> 38:12.710 [SPEAKER_00]: He starts texting friends. 38:15.193 --> 38:17.215 [SPEAKER_00]: This is what happened, like I think 38:17.612 --> 38:18.733 [SPEAKER_00]: She fucking mallewopped him. 38:19.354 --> 38:20.495 [SPEAKER_00]: I think she had him with her car. 38:21.396 --> 38:23.437 [SPEAKER_00]: The powers that B. want answers immediately. 38:23.858 --> 38:25.780 [SPEAKER_00]: And he starts calling Karen names. 38:26.720 --> 38:27.521 [SPEAKER_00]: He calls her work job. 38:27.561 --> 38:30.123 [SPEAKER_00]: Count says there's zero chance she's getting off. 38:30.744 --> 38:35.909 [SPEAKER_00]: These texts go on throughout the entire investigation, including asking, you know, if she had. 38:38.631 --> 38:39.352 [SPEAKER_00]: So, on January, 38:41.237 --> 38:49.084 [SPEAKER_00]: Higgins actually goes to a body of his who works at an FBI forensic lab and asks if there's any way to extract data from a cell phone. 38:50.084 --> 38:55.429 [SPEAKER_00]: He figures out how to do it and ends up extracting text threads between him and John and him and Karen. 38:56.089 --> 38:58.571 [SPEAKER_00]: He puts those on digital CDs and makes pronounce. 39:00.653 --> 39:08.700 [SPEAKER_00]: This is also the same day that Proctor and Mechanic interview, Canton, Paramedic, Katie McLaughlin and they also interview Officer Sarahf. 39:09.817 --> 39:15.902 [SPEAKER_00]: His report from January, twenty-ninth says that Karen Quill

kept screaming, is he dead, is he dead? 39:16.442 --> 39:18.804 [SPEAKER_00]: That's it, doesn't mention anything about hitting. 39:20.745 --> 39:26.370 [SPEAKER_00]: On January, thirty-first, the Massachusetts State Police obtained passwords on John's phone. 39:27.070 --> 39:31.474 [SPEAKER_00]: This is how they get into the ring app, the ring camera app. 39:32.134 --> 39:34.916 [SPEAKER_00]: They review the footage, they don't see anything on it. 39:36.217 --> 39:37.038 [SPEAKER_00]: This is also when 39:37.728 --> 39:42.091 [SPEAKER_00]: Dr. Irina Scordibella does John's autopsy. 39:43.132 --> 39:48.095 [SPEAKER_00]: She notes that there are, quote, abrasions to the anterior right arm, so that's the front. 39:48.996 --> 39:52.258 [SPEAKER_00]: A small scratch through the lateral right knee, lateral is the outside. 39:52.839 --> 39:54.660 [SPEAKER_00]: There's the last relation over his right eye. 39:55.461 --> 40:02.005 [SPEAKER_00]: Small abrasions to the left side of the nose, a large last relation to the rear of his head accompanied by abrasions. 40:02.726 --> 40:06.728 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's several small skull fractures coming from that area of the headlast relation. 40:07.629 --> 40:13.310 [SPEAKER_00]: She also says that there's type of therapy as evidence by stomach bleeding and darkening of the pancreas. 40:14.351 --> 40:21.212 [SPEAKER_00]: She says this cause of death is blunt for injuries of the head and a hypothermia, but the manner of death is undetermined. 40:22.353 --> 40:27.134 [SPEAKER_00]: She then states that there's, quote, no obvious signs of an altercation or a fight. 40:29.582 --> 40:36.346 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, troopers there to observe the autopsy, which is common, detectives usually go with at least one for the autopsy. 40:37.386 --> 40:40.548 [SPEAKER_00]: They tell her prior to the start of it that John was actually hit by a car. 40:42.089 --> 40:44.010 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, the autopsy report was never made public. 40:44.330 --> 40:45.811 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a thing for Massachusetts. 40:46.651 --> 40:47.792 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't make them public. 40:47.952 --> 40:50.153 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not available through FOIA requests. 40:50.433 --> 40:53.475 [SPEAKER_00]: They are very, very secretive when it comes to autopsy reports. 40:54.195 --> 40:57.437 [SPEAKER_00]: What we know about the autopsy report we've learned from testimony, that is it. 41:00.400 --> 41:14.543 [SPEAKER_00]: On February first, excuse me, Proctor is again, doing his fuckery with text messages, calling Karen O'Wackjob and texting his sister about the Albert's, which he later claims he does not know them. 41:15.643 --> 41:28.645 [SPEAKER_00]: Now members of the Massachusetts State Police Crime Scene Services Section, a Crime Lib chemist, and another trooper with the state's collision analysis and reconstruction section, go to Canton PD to inspect Karen's SUV. 41:30.281 --> 41:38.786 [SPEAKER_00]: The crime lab forensic scientist states that she recovers all hair, a singular hair, and several pieces of glass from the rear of the car. 41:39.087 --> 41:40.587 [SPEAKER_00]: She removes the broken tail light. 41:42.869 --> 41:45.370 [SPEAKER_00]: Excuse me, breaking an acceleration test are done. 41:45.511 --> 41:53.996 [SPEAKER_00]: Back up cameras and sensors are inspected, and then they all go to the thirty four-fear view road to see where all of the evidence have been collected. 41:57.341 --> 41:59.563 [SPEAKER_00]: See, I'm doing my fuckery again, guys, I'm missing a page. 42:00.544 --> 42:01.585 [SPEAKER_00]: But I know where it is. 42:02.827 --> 42:04.148 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe, I know where it is. 42:04.168 --> 42:06.450 [SPEAKER_00]: Ah, yes, got it. 42:06.510 --> 42:06.670 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 42:09.741 --> 42:18.188 [SPEAKER_00]: So also on the first mantakev actually dries by thirty-four feet of the road, and season investigators there immediately let's bring in Nicole. 42:18.548 --> 42:18.708 [SPEAKER_00]: No. 42:20.570 --> 42:26.255 [SPEAKER_00]: Investigators then go to the bars to pull up surveillance footage of the night that they were all out. 42:27.175 --> 42:36.203 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is actually the first time Jen McKab tells the police that Karen asked her to Google, quote, how long do you have to be left outside to die from hypothermia? 42:38.686 --> 42:50.816 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, on the first, they apparently have enough because at seventeen forty that night, Karen is arrested and charged with manslaughter, motor vehicle homicide, and leaving the scene of a motor vehicle collision causing death. 42:51.837 --> 43:00.844 [SPEAKER_00]: The next day, Karen's a reigned and pleads that guilty to all charges in Stouton District Court, and she's released after her dad posts a fifty thousand dollar ride. 43:02.445 --> 43:06.509 [SPEAKER_00]: Karen's SUV is then brought to the State Police Milton Barracks first storage. 43:07.943 --> 43:15.094 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, ours after Karen's arrangement, David de Nettie receives a phone call from a man wanting to remain anonymous. 43:15.735 --> 43:18.780 [SPEAKER_00]: He says that he has a background in Boston law enforcement. 43:19.970 --> 43:21.951 [SPEAKER_00]: And he wants to tell him a few things. 43:22.311 --> 43:28.414 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, the man would later be identified as Steven Scanlon who was actually a Boston police officer and a private investigator. 43:29.414 --> 43:32.396 [SPEAKER_00]: He stated that he had known Brian Elbert for thirty years. 43:32.556 --> 43:36.658 [SPEAKER_00]: They met when they both worked as corrections officers prior to joining. 43:37.218 --> 43:39.779 [SPEAKER_00]: Boston PD and that they were on the boxing team together. 43:41.170 --> 43:54.798 [SPEAKER_00]: He said that Brian Albert and, quote, nephew who fits the description of Colin Albert beat John when he didn't come to Brian Albert and unnamed quote federal agent who fit the description of Higgins put John outside. 43:56.233 --> 44:00.036 [SPEAKER_00]: Yenetti contacted him again for more thorough interview and information. 44:00.276 --> 44:04.319 [SPEAKER_00]: The guy backtracked said it was an opinion based on John's photo with the news. 44:05.200 --> 44:07.581 [SPEAKER_00]: Problem is there was no photos released to the news. 44:08.342 --> 44:11.704 [SPEAKER_00]: When Yenetti told him this, he actually recanted the entire story. 44:12.825 --> 44:23.213 [SPEAKER_00]: Now this is how Karen and Yenetti found out that Colin Albert was actually at the house because he is not mentioned in any of the police reports. 44:24.829 --> 44:28.301 [SPEAKER_00]: State PD then receives a warrant to examine Karen's phone.