The author of 48 Laws of Power, Mastery, his new book The Laws of Human Nature and more. Robert is a master which is why so many powerful people seek his counsel and he decided to slum it with me for an hour to give some guidance! Robert and I chop it up GOOD and talk about everything from what it’s like to sit on the board of American Apparel as it implodes, why you should never outshine the master and why Donald Trump will always take the free lunch. To find out more about Robert and his books, check out http://powerseductionandwar.com/
United States
explicit content


00:00:00rambles welcome the curious with Josh packs start the show %HESITATION baby I love your part number five oh one of those and do they give me is far greater you are love your palm terrors on this among %HESITATION at my work imho forging cubicle I hate my balls
00:00:23with the holiday season is coming up I'm not going to go to work tool days off for another two weeks that's great I don't care what you have to say is what I want to tell my boss every day welcome back to the mother **** carries podcasts with
00:00:40Josh Peck I'm Josh back you are the listener and that's a wonderful thing because without each other this is stupid doesn't work me both of us otherwise **** it welcome back can you believe us here we are again another week I'm delivering this intro way too late for
00:00:58my producer Kevin to cutting to the to the shell and I tend to include Kevin in my opening monologues when I feel I feel guilty and I I figure that he said his computer slaving away he's got a life and a wife and a lovely sure a bunch
00:01:14of friends and he doesn't need to be on **** garage bander for pro tools whatever uses to splice in my ridiculousness of ninety minutes of podcasts bullshit and get it all set and ready to go on Spotify in the I tunes and everywhere we can get podcasts he
00:01:31doesn't need to be laboring away deep in a Monday night this is a part of his job title and yet he does it exist bring committed and also jerks like me make his job harder than it needs to be so here I am Kevin saying I'm so friggin
00:01:45sorry and expect a great Christmas gift only a hundred Bucks a Nordstrom I told you I should just say date I should just a wrong the surprise I hope you like Nordstrom just gonna let my go to gift I figure everyone needs clothes and look we don't know
00:02:06each other like super well but I know you enough to know your %HESITATION snappy dresser and perhaps you can get a nice piece from Nordstrom and let's be honest hundred Bucks started by a lot but maybe in a shirt or pants you seem about a thirty two waist
00:02:22I don't know I'm jealous here in great shape Kevin anyway guys how's it going this year is almost over it's almost a rap and I think that's great and I hope you guys are doing too much **** reflecting right now just try John no resolutions no I'm gonna
00:02:39do better next year **** that noise do the same do worse don't put the pressure on yourself wonder why because it's hard enough being a human being on this earth without the outside noise without that inner monologue that shitty committee telling you why you're not enough they tell
00:02:56you little Josh tell you something you are enough you're just enough you're just right you the perfect recipe your two parts adorable with three cups of awesome and you know and yeah sure you got a table spoon into our of of annoying but he doesn't you don't that's
00:03:12what being human is about maybe the server given ourselves and so I'm trying to live up to this you know like crazy expectation that unattainable maybe if we did all that we would have to worry about it won't be you know so busy taking the antidepressant and the
00:03:27drugs and the alcohol and talking to the strings since we are so shrinks the more **** up than we are you know you're going to be a certain kind of crazy to want to hear a bunch of kooks talk all day ten hours a day barely have time
00:03:39for a lunch break given you ever look in the eyes of shrink they're not happy they're probably in have to mention selves they're probably dipping into the samples Alexa pros in the other antidepressants I don't know I'm not one of them but you know takes a particular kind
00:03:56of person anyway I'm ranting what else I have going on have any kids still that'll happen soon whether I like it or not and that's great because they have no other choice it has to be great because you can't not be great and if it is a great
00:04:15I can't tell you about it I can't be like ice block it's not as it's not how I hoped man I wanna I miss my freedom I can't see that you know what they're gonna write articles about me not a big newspapers but she anyones movie I Josh
00:04:33Beck residences newborn to that would be a terrible look I don't want that at all I want them to write stories like Josh Beck who is in the new Avengers now getting them to write stories like Josh Beck greet dad loving every moment of it I think %HESITATION
00:04:49well I'm actually excited I made the right woman anything she's going to be an incredible mom I think that's a ninety five percent of it and for that other five percent all fill in the gap by being a pretty good dad serviceable not bad I mean you know
00:05:03when you're as a father's songs you don't like hit the kid or play like you know any kind of like mental %HESITATION warfare on them and make them feel less than if you root Amman during the games and teach about a play catch and just you know scare
00:05:18their boyfriends when they come to the door when they're sixteen to pick them up for a movie date when you know they're not going to the movies second go with their friends and some of the devils lettuce and make bad decisions but this is adolescence is what being
00:05:31a child is about you know what I mean this is all they gain knowledge and their big experiencing so I've heard I don't know I mean my wife and I haven't taken any of the classes maybe we should've I regret it I'm gonna I'm gonna you know I'm
00:05:50gonna I'm gonna be honest I'm gonna make a complete and utter a mission here we haven't taken a single preparatory class and I'm assuming that I'm just it's just going to click in for me but it might not you know there could be a moment where I need
00:06:05to know childhood CPR but I don't know it because we don't take the class I'm not certified I am useless in an emergency and I don't feel great about that but I'm I'm gonna learn the child CPR I should know that Anaheim like I think that's a very
00:06:22popular rescue method can they'll be good to be good to just have in my life because I want to be that guy at the restaurant who's like wolf down a buffalo chicken wing because they don't they're not the kind of guy that eats slowly you know what I
00:06:37mean and their Russian some you know something was small bones and so now they're you know they're in trouble and they're trying to blue and they're not making a sound because that's universal sign if someone is making a sound then you've got a chance if they're making that
00:06:53much they're getting oxygen in but if they're like you know what I mean like barely is sound there are about to meet their maker they're about to have a one way ticket up to heaven and you got to you the only one standing in the way of that
00:07:12train and you can save them I want to be that guy I wanna get a round of applause into Chiles or an Applebee's and for them like I want Marvin the general manager at that Chile should be like damn man thank you so much dune god that karma's
00:07:29died he comes in here every week in each fourteen buffalo wings and it's always like around the twelve one then I'm like this mother **** going to choke and he finally did and you were here thank god me you want cheese cake and I'll take that celebratory cheese
00:07:46cake and now then I yearned every bite of it some **** hero in here is to serve cheese cake all on today's show Robert green heard of them %HESITATION he would have a call the forty loss of power he would become mastery he wrote a book called the
00:08:05forty lots of seduction and most notably or most recently he wrote a book called the loss of human nature he's a brilliant off their arm a quiet sigh CEO coach he sat on the the board of many %HESITATION the big companies I don't know about many but American
00:08:25apparel for one and he is he's a guru he's the guy that people go to to find out what they need %HESITATION to succeed to accrue power how to navigate the crazy waters of business and politics in enterprise and what have you %HESITATION and while Roberts written these
00:08:45incredibly brilliant books he remains one of the most humble generous people I've ever met and I felt so looking to meet him %HESITATION we were introduced by my friend Ryan holiday who has worked with Robert for a really long time and he's a friend of mine it was
00:09:01nice enough to %HESITATION to make the introduction and we speak about Ryan a lot in this interview and my interview with Ryan will be next week because I %HESITATION bumped Roberts interview up because he's got a really cool book out that's right now called the laws of human
00:09:16nature which you should go buy sell %HESITATION please enjoy Robert green check %HESITATION good thank you Robert for you know sitting here with me this is that a dream %HESITATION thank you Josh my pleasure so we were introduced by a mutual friend Ryan holiday home and he has
00:09:48sort of gone on to it's interesting in reading your writing and Hayes and to see how it does very I see the relationship %HESITATION how would how are you guys initially introduced well %HESITATION man named Tucker Maximo for Ryan was friends with him I don't know how that
00:10:09happened but Ryan of was nineteen years old he was going to UC riverside and he was also working at like the talent agency of like Linkin park was one of their yes that's how Ryan and I've met really yeah he worked for my manager %HESITATION %HESITATION %HESITATION what's
00:10:29his name his name was Michael Greene %HESITATION Sam may do is my manager but they started the collective which was a kind of a collective but there was somebody else there that was wiring ray yeah that's why no two okay so %HESITATION rhymes a big fan of the
00:10:46forty eight laws and I was looking for research I was working on my third book the strategies of war and he offered his services a researcher and I've had a lot of bad luck with people working for me that they're they just don't understand my method they're not
00:11:05very diligent conscientious they don't think for themselves and Ryan was totally different it was you know very young but clearly he understood my method will how I think kind of books I like and he was just a really great researcher I could tell from right away so %HESITATION
00:11:25I give a lot of work and then at one point %HESITATION he offered to fix my wikipedia page which was a mess all of ours are I think yes back in six or seven where you know I didn't really understand how I could what I could do how
00:11:39I could possibly have a people add stuff to mine I have no idea where it comes right just reduce or yeah it's all right it is even more though sure yeah I can get on that get right to do it anyway so he did mine and then dove
00:11:53Charney the CEO of American apparel back then who I was consulting with complain to me about his wikipedia page I said you've got to get this kid Ryan to help you with fix it fixed it the loved it and I said look one inch higher ride to work
00:12:09at American apparel he's kind of brilliant when it comes to the internet and the digital world so we hired him to head the marketing department the rest is history and that out of that came his first book but Ryan I've been friends ever since he's helped me to
00:12:27the subsequent books when he's writing a book I help him with his books so we have a very nice symbiotic relationship and will you elaborate on when you say that he understood and appreciated your math eight or or the way in which to approach things what is that
00:12:43what is that look like specifically well it's a little hard to describe but %HESITATION I try and write books with stories in them I don't like giving straight information my whole approach is I'm trying to seduce the reader into reading in on I'm giving the material and information
00:13:02and ideas but I don't want to seem heavy or or to intellectual I want people to be drawn in so you stories from history a lot of research is the research I give people is I give the biographies to read and see what that they'll fit into how
00:13:20I'm thinking and most people don't understand that you're looking for drop drama you're looking for dramatic moments for people's story that could fit almost like in a movie or something %HESITATION and Ryan had a sense of that drama he understood that certain aspects of this is most during
00:13:41the war book certain generals were very boring nothing would come from it but you could recognize the book that would fit into how I write stories you you're familiar with my books you know yes the kinds of stories that I use there has to be hooked to it
00:13:55there has to be a lesson to it has to be something that can relate to your life so if I'm talking about Genghis Khan or Hannibal you have to think up that that you know I know people like that or I could use that idea so that's not
00:14:08easy he grasped that me understood so he researched not completely how I would look at things because that's not possible but more or less sort of through the same lands that I do it other people no clue I would pay thousands of dollars to help them research for
00:14:25my books and they would give me a research report and it was clear that you know they were just approaching it like it was a %HESITATION a university project or something some kind of academic saying sure there was no sense of clicking in connecting to my material I
00:14:44would give them all sorts of ideas to an interim coach them but you know they they do I think a lot of it had to the fact that Ryan understood my work very well but he's also somebody who's very open and fluid he he took criticism which was
00:15:00another thing it's very unusual lot of young people younger people myself included it's hard to take criticism it's hard to listen to people tell you this is what you're not doing it I could be honest with Ryan I could tell him no that that isn't working and isn't
00:15:15a good idea and he was he didn't get resentful or angry or or passive aggressive he took it very well these are very interesting qualities to have in a person so if you're looking for an employee you what people or partner you want people who can take criticism
00:15:30you could say is this a bad idea or you're not listening to me yes it will you speak to criticism because I'm not quite I mean I'm sure you address it in some respect in in your books in the and I'm not you know it does and I
00:15:46don't remember there being like at complete directly law perhaps or something and it seems so important the ability in which to learn from you know someone who who really know well I really talk about a lot about that in my fifth book mastery %HESITATION which is all about
00:16:04how to find the right career path for yourselves and become a master in your field whatever that field is acting writing whatever and I kind of lay out the road map for how to get there discovering what you should be doing in life serving an apprenticeship working with
00:16:21a mentor and throughout the book the idea is %HESITATION you're not gonna master your field unless you're willing to be honest about yourself and assess your skin who know who you are no what you're good at knowing you're not good at so you find the right path for
00:16:39yourself see you you were probably you know natural actor if some reason your parents said no charge you need to become a lawyer you would have found yourself kind of lost and he would find it hard to learn you your mind close off so you need to find
00:16:56the career that excites you so that you want to learn but in in your apprenticeship and finding a mentor you have to be willing to listen to people who can give you an objective opinion about where you are in life do you find most people shut down from
00:17:12please the look I've been %HESITATION consultant pretty much for eighteen years or so of my books very powerful people like a kid mention their names that a confidentiality none of them fifty right wrote a book with him dove is these are public knowledge but others I can't share
00:17:31%HESITATION but there hype people very powerful in politics in foreign countries as well %HESITATION artists %HESITATION a politician's %HESITATION you name it %HESITATION notice of the business blood business leaders and %HESITATION they'll hire me for quite expensive I'm not cheap I wouldn't think set mine to million plus
00:17:57books please thank you and I give them advice ed ninety five percent of the time they won't listen they hire me of it for my advice I pride myself on being brutally Frank and telling them this is what you need to do this is what you're wrong Z.
00:18:16weaknesses easier strains and the most people particularly powerful people wanting to hear you echoing their own ideas they want to be they want their own opinions and ideas confirmed by you they don't want to think that they might be doing something wrong and I'm talking about very powerful
00:18:35people CEOs isn't the most people to a certain extent yeah I just say that to illustrate the idea that most people like that but even help people who retain sufficient and power I think Ilan mosque reminds Raina myself very much in love he's someone who's clearly not listening
00:18:53he's stacked his board with a bunch of yes men and women and that's what happens to a lot of people do you just you just want to hear what you want to hear so the ability to take criticism so like for instance in acting you know it's hard
00:19:11to know if you're doing something right or not but once it's on film its objective it's there you can look at yourself you can see your performance and you can judge it if you could at that if you're open you can see why that really sucked or I
00:19:27really nailed their it's very hard to be objective about yourself because you're not seeing that yourself on and on and on the screen sure not seeing yourself from a distance you just who you are you think you're great you think you're wonderful you don't know what other people
00:19:43think of you they might think that you're mediocre they might think that you're abrasive but they might think whatever so you need the ability to get objective opinions about your skill level and about your personality in about how well you working with other people very very difficult and
00:20:01it's the it's probably the difference between people who really truly successful for law no long term and others were not you can rise pretty far in life and you can become the de Charny or even Ilan mosque by not being a good listener but being an entrepreneur by
00:20:18saying I have a vision and I'm in the put it together but we notice with a lot of entrepreneurs is they attain a level a certain level through that energy and excitement but then there's the plateau because they're not willing to listen to other people they got that
00:20:33far because they're such a rebel such a maverick by not listen to other people they're starting their business %HESITATION you should do it that way come on you can't make it they don't listen they build a business this success and I think god damn I don't need to
00:20:46listen to anyone I'm perfect I know what I'm doing so that's the me that's three killings he'll so the ability to take in objective appraisals of your skill level and of how will you work with people and about who you are is absolute most critical life skill of
00:21:04all think and do you think like a man listening to you on mosque when he was on Joe Rogan I remember watch the whole thing %HESITATION yeah I was I was in all three hours I'm a podcast junkie as though I do need my trident let's see yeah
00:21:20and what I found interesting with you on and was a testament to sort of what you were mentioning the Mavericks sort of yeah you know irascible spear it was that he when he was talking about the boring company and Joe pose the question of how what company the
00:21:36boring boring right and building a tunnel structure and a Los Angeles in Joe much approach it in the way I believe I would which would have been V. insane insurmountable task in the infrastructure would take to build a tunnel system and the legalities under yeah one of the
00:21:55biggest cities in the world and your lawns answer was %HESITATION no you just you get a permit to dig a pit and I dug a really deep pet because getting a permit CC and you dig a painting I did in the tassel parking lot and it's just really
00:22:13deep and that's how you begin and then you get permits to build a tunnel it just so happens that might tunnels underground it's like I find for me sometimes my Achilles heel is that I am the sheer magnitude of doing something I become so all true aware of
00:22:33the obstacles and what have you and all the things that would stand in the way that it it dissuades me and it seemed like he had such a okay you know it well that's that's what I meant in the beginning about how some people can rise to the
00:22:45top because they have a vision yeah and then I'm going to listen to other people and it's going to do it no matter what but then %HESITATION and that's very powerful and very important it's a key component to success is to thinking that you have your destined for
00:23:00something great yes you have a vision and you're not going to listen to all the naysayers out there but that is not enough in this world it's never enough right %HESITATION what would it be his %HESITATION yeah I was gonna say like and and I totally agree is
00:23:14it his inability to reconcile that like he might not be the the greatest at at train a certain public image to that of a CEO who now whose %HESITATION basically he sees at the at the behest of a Cheryl holders yeah but is it just has an ability
00:23:35in which to recognize that and then find his Sheryl Sandberg or whoever it is to be that part is very much so that's exactly the problem yes %HESITATION so there's two ways you can go you can train yourself to become a great execute or somebody who has great
00:23:49ideas but knows how to put them into practice or you hire the people to do that SO two examples of one for my bat mastery book which is my fifth book %HESITATION Thomas Edison probably the greatest entrepreneur that ever lived when the greatest inventors he actually was sort
00:24:08of a deal on musky had visions but he also was really good at finding other people who had great ideas and taking them and using them %HESITATION and he you know had an idea he had of it one of his greatest visions though that he was going to
00:24:23create a city that could be lit through light bulbs through electricity it was a totally novel ideas nobody think it's sort of like the boring company how the odds against %HESITATION insurmountable the infrastructure you need is about what he has to do with Los Angeles in the tunnels
00:24:42he had wired entire city like New York and the difficulties were incredible but Edison was painstaking he would spend hours days weeks working on the simplest problem figuring things out he was persisted and he worked really hard he knew had that it was one thing to have a
00:25:02vision but if you weren't able to excuse if we weren't able to make put the ABC's together and do all the hard work you wouldn't amount to anything and his ability in the M. when he lifted the entire city of New York was absolutely unbelievable but it came
00:25:18through hours and hours and hours of insane work the kind of attention to detail that I think the musk doesn't necessarily have %HESITATION the other vision will go away is %HESITATION from a war book of George Marshall took over the %HESITATION the Pentagon the department of defense in
00:25:41the thirties and you realize that the United States wasn't prepared for war and he had to get the country ready but the defense part was massive a massive bureaucracy filled with all sorts of people who had jobs who didn't deserve them who are working very hard he couldn't
00:25:57go in fire everybody you couldn't go in and just start all over there was a culture there already and he which is one person he had a vision for transforming the department of defense to get ready for war but it would be impossible for one person to do
00:26:12it so we hired the right lieutenants people who can work with him like Eisenhower like Bradley who thought like him he could instill in them the spirit and the ideas and they would go execute his vision you'll find a lot of people in business would like that they're
00:26:29good at hiring the people who will execute Steve Jobs is kind of a hybrid there he was definitely a visionary and the level of the lawn mosque he wasn't quite an Edison who put in those thousands of hours of detailed work he was pretty painstaking more than musk
00:26:47but he was really good at hiring the right people who do all of that laborious legwork you know I've been looking at must for awhile and the problem that I have an article awhile ago that was sort of we're seeing the troubles he would have and to launch
00:27:03a car company %HESITATION manufacture automobiles is incredibly intense of labor and cost intensive very cost intensive and the only way you can make money is mass production right it's been the model for synced for so you can only succeed if you can put out so many thousands of
00:27:26cars a month and to do that is really hard task and you can't do that overnight you know General Motors wasn't built overnight you have to build slowly he didn't build slowly went very quickly he follow the Amazon model which is I'll just start building and and help
00:27:45create a brand and I'll get people excited and that will be enough and then the money will come but the automobile industry is not like books it's requires something much more disciplined you have to build slowly he was very impatient so these are the flaws in those the
00:28:02ways to correct it you either have to be someone who has a vision it's very important I talk about it in one of my chapters in the loss of human nature that the primary thing that we're looking for in a leader is someone who has authority and that
00:28:17authority comes from the sense that you have a vision a vision of where the company is going where the country is going people love to follow someone who has a great vision of the future very seductive to humans %HESITATION so that's very important but you need to be
00:28:34someone who can execute that vision or find the other people to help you do that do you think to that speaks to the fact that people I find mostly are so inherently indecisive unclear about what they want like to question I wanted to ask you need something funny
00:28:51that Ryan and I spoke about which was that I feel like your directive of you you know you must find that thing that you are intrinsically passionate route but I find that is and then you can employ all these tools to really %HESITATION executed in the best way
00:29:13and yet I find that people's greatest challenge is that they're just not quite sure of what that thing was very you've hit that you emailed exactly the problem with people congratulate you and I I dress it into books mostly in my fifth book mastery in a chapter in
00:29:34my new book the loss of human nature about how to find your sense of purpose and I devoted chapter in in mastery to it about discovering your calling in life in both those chapters give you very specific ideas but about how you can do that but what you
00:29:50say is very true so the great geniuses in life we can find from instances when there were four five years old before they knew where they were going something clicked inside that Steve Jobs passed it Malek tronic store in Sunnyvale whatever that city was and he goes wow
00:30:09these gadgets I'm I'm NABARD with them any at any was what he was a fascinated with was the design of technology Tiger Woods knew the one play golf news a year and a half old and he's in the garage watching his father hit golf balls Albert Einstein was
00:30:25given the compass when he was like four five for his birthday the idea that they were unseen forces in the world moving that needle on the compass fascinated I give you a hundred examples of that but most people don't have that they feel lost %HESITATION the the problem
00:30:43is they're not in touch with themselves so I compare it to a voice inside if you when you three four five years old you're drawn to certain things I believe everybody is like that I don't think there's any exception to it you find yourself naturally drawn to something
00:31:02it could be sports and moving your body or dance or could be music and patterns and mathematics could be words and language it could be you know building things with your hands sure you're drawn to that and you know it you feel excited by something but what happens
00:31:20is you get older you start listening to your parents say no Josh you need to go to law school you to become a doctor I'm Jewish so I'm just choosing the things that I saw my it is ringing very true %HESITATION now I'm just get those my parents
00:31:36hoped and I I once heard a woman say I was listening to her speak and she said we're all born perfect and then someone tells us that we're fat or where in you know and it starts planting the seeds of Dieppe in security and and like and we
00:31:51also build these defense mechanisms because we say I never want to feel this way again and so I'm going to keep the world at bay or I'm not gonna try because they don't want to revisit this feeling of not feeling like I'm enough right and so that's very
00:32:08true and so if I compared it to a voice that's inside of you saying very softly become an actor become a writer so yes you know it starts to get drowned out by your parents by your teachers by your peers and friends who say that's this is what's
00:32:24cool this is and what is not cool and by the time you're eighteen you're about to enter the world is to university or the work world you've lost that voice you're not you're not sure who you are you wanna follow what other people are doing you want to
00:32:38follow what your parents told you and you enter a career path twenty two twenty three that doesn't really suit you and then you're going to find you you're gonna get lost for the rest of your life because you're not in touch with who you are what really excites
00:32:54you what you were meant to do it's very simple it's very practical I'm not trying to be all poetic here about life the human brain we don't learn unless were emotionally engaged in if you want to learn French because you're interested in seducing a French girl in your
00:33:12friends you will learn enough French in a month but if you hate if you at the university you have to learn it's like a requirement they'll take you five years to learn what you can learn in a month it's the level of engagement excitement that you have for
00:33:26learning so you're not going to succeed in life you're not going to get very far few not developing powerful skills you won't develop those skills if you're not open an excited by what you're learning so it's very critical that you choose a path Sir somehow meshes with who
00:33:45you are what your uniqueness is and we talk about pivot points in their respective like for me I started acting probably too young at ten years old and I've had some great success and a wonderful career in here I am at thirty one in over the last four
00:34:02years I've sort of embrace this new career in social media and podcasting which has afforded me success as well and been should have this great new chapter eight and it was a been ability in which to let go of even though I felt like so much of my
00:34:17identity was wrapped up in this thing and I put so many years into it that perhaps my my path wasn't gonna go in the way that I expected but it would be for the filling in monetarily successful in ways that I needed it to be and we speak
00:34:34to that well yes so the career paths are never straight eros their zigzags you're finding your way combining skills so what you learned as an actor and dealing with people and knowing how to kind of open other people up is something that you're applying to your podcasts these
00:34:53are skills that you learn so like you suddenly lot dropped acting wanted to podcasts you actually building and things that you learn is that correct yes okay so many successful people follow that zigzagging pattern but overall there's a sense of direction in your life so you were drawn
00:35:13to acting at ten a matter of your parents pushed you in or if it was you but you were drawn to it probably and then I don't know age of twenty two or something you felt like there was something missing or you wanted more you weren't sure about
00:35:25the future you were then drawn to something else that messed with you personally it was you curiosity about ideas and about %HESITATION interviewing interesting people etcetera so you know who you are you know what you're excited about you know what connects with you you didn't say acting it's
00:35:44not connecting with me to go into real estate because they're available to secure my future and make a lot of money security yeah yes and then you would burn yourself out do thirty five years old **** you lost them I'm I hate it I'd be a **** real
00:35:59estate agent okay a lot of P. address go do that day you're so right the do you know so you you are following the path but it's not a straight line I did the same thing %HESITATION I give a Ted talk people can look that up %HESITATION about
00:36:14my own path but I knew that I want to be a writer when I was probably eight years old but I couldn't figure out what I was good at writing what I was meant to write so I tried after graduating I tried journalism and I kind of hated
00:36:28that didn't really work and I thought I'm going to be like a novelist because I thought I love fiction and I wandered around Europe and %HESITATION tried to write novels that didn't work kinda sucked that then I came back to Los Angeles where I'm from I got into
00:36:42the film business of that I'm gonna write screen plays it was really bad at that it wasn't a good fit in Hollywood and I got very depressed I was kind of zigzagging along but it wasn't going anywhere really far but in in the right direction and then this
00:36:57man nineteen ninety five I met in Italy he's a book packager yes me if I had any ideas for books and I kind of improvise would turn into the forty it lost power but I almost instantly recognized that this was what was meant to do this was it
00:37:15but I was able to take all the other things that I had done and use them to the journalism taught me to write on a deadline in to be concise and to think about the reader and my writing novels and screenplays taught me how to make things dramatic
00:37:29and exciting for the reader and all the writing gave me discipline and practice so that I brought it all together when I wrote my first book so you can wander vertically when you're in your twenties you can we not quite sure you can try this ABC in D.
00:37:46but you're not lost there is an overall sense of direction it's not like you love writing and then you try real estate or you try becoming a lawyer it's you try different kinds of writing you try different kinds of performing different kind of public at things we are
00:38:03in the public and you you performance some level is an overall kind of direction guiding you and then you can combine your skills and something very powerful do you think that I'm fascinated about where you started collecting these things for you know for the forty eight laws in
00:38:23the respect of if you had said that someone approached you to start writing your for first but in the mid nineties and you had said so I wrote a you know %HESITATION Portnoy's complaint %HESITATION the I wrote about growing up Jewish in in California all right I get
00:38:40that that probably was on the tip of your tongue but a book you know having a booklet forty loss of power it's to me the amount of research and and the accumulating all these insights like where can you pinpoint the time in which you first started waking up
00:38:55to these these trends in these patterns we started seeing that like wow the world power structure really works in this way well %HESITATION my girlfriend I she's in the other room right now what's kind of that I had eighty different jobs before but the forty it lost power
00:39:14%HESITATION some very short you know but generally I tried a lot of different things and in those experiences I saw every kind of power hungry person you can imagine every kind of manipulator every possible type of **** that is out there I saw and I saw other maneuvers
00:39:34missile the thought I was also a great reader of history I'm constantly reading books of love history of meeting love love Machiavelli I love reading about great renaissance princes cetera and so when I was like working in Hollywood I was an assistant to the director %HESITATION and I
00:39:54was seeing the kind of hardcore manipulative tactics he was using on actors and producers I thought wow that reminds me of his ari Borja in the renaissance that reminds me of what Napoleon did so I was building up this kind of catalog of experiences I didn't know what
00:40:14would come of it but when he that man asked me if I had any ideas from books I give him several ideas but this is the one that he got excited about eyes told him that in my experience power has not changed we live in a very PC
00:40:32world with that Hollywood film director projects the image of being the nicest most liberal most amazing person but behind doors he is a raging **** who will do anything to manipulate so that you know he gets exactly what he wants I think I know who you're talking about
00:40:50not %HESITATION should remain nameless %HESITATION and you know something powers timeless I you know the people may not be beheaded for making a mistake but they're fired for making a mistake sure long number one is never out shine the master in the old days the story I use
00:41:11Nicholas who K. have shown that the King Louis the fourteenth he was thrown in prison for the rest of his life now you're fired okay it's just a different form of punishment so %HESITATION my whole life was building up these experiences that it was now able to bring
00:41:28together in this book but once I decide to make the book as you point out intense labor it was it was a vision we spoke about earlier but now came the point of execution the difficult point and I could see one important thing about that is I was
00:41:47thirty six when I first met that man stood right in the Poconos thirty seven I was basically facing the precipice of falling into the loser hood for from for good my parents were about to write me off it's going to be fourteen a few years time I didn't
00:42:03make anything of my life I was so **** motivated to make the forty it lost power successful that I work like a fiend researching and putting things together so that's sort of the genesis of yeah ed got another ad for yeah because I love adds I want as
00:42:25many as possible listen I'm having a baby a child a baby human and they are expensive a needy they don't care okay they've the game is on or if you're suppose seven date night you know and close the deal little bit later job married awhile and it doesn't
00:42:41happen as often as a one state I know you're thinking Josh what do you do insinuating eve talking about that's right going out for ice cream right because when you first started dating all you do is eat ice cream but then you know get married get some stress
00:42:56also in your eating ice cream a lot less that sucks several lives ice cream anyway Dropbox imagine a workplace with no distractions or disruptions know when the searching to find the latest version no constantly switching between apps no mention a place where everything just flows and Dropbox we're
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00:43:46in talking **** Ryan this when I had him on on the podcast snobby see so many of his books are about you know he's got the trust me I'm lying but he also has you know so much of of his writing is about stoicism and virtue and ego
00:44:02is the enemy ops goes away and SO in asking him about forty loss of power and and I'm sure you've spoken to this before I said is it is it is it in conflict or contradictory in some respects to so many of the things that you write about
00:44:17in and what he said was that it's it's the ability in which to %HESITATION to be aware of these things that are happening it's it's a cautionary tale in some respect is it pieces unfortunately or fortunately the things in which are part of power structure and you being
00:44:36able to see it coming will endow you with the tools well yeah and I agree with you know Ryan is thirty one I believe yeah rich he's very powerful very successful he didn't get there by just being totally virtuous I'm not saying that he's manipulative at all but
00:44:54he no longer stands power he understands marketing what he did at at American apparel yes very forty eight loss of power and what he wrote about trust me %HESITATION line is very forty it lowers the power sui understands how the world works and you know stoicism isn't too
00:45:13far away from my books %HESITATION Marcus Raley's had a quote I don't I can't say it exactly but he says when a boxer gets in the ring with another boxer and he gets punched he doesn't complain and go goddammit you hit me I don't deserve to be hit
00:45:31he accepts that that's the game of life we should see that in life in general when people hit is that's just who they are people are who they are we shouldn't judge them we should just accept them like we accept a rock or stone or that boxer that's
00:45:46what people like and it's working to get the stoic attitude of accepting the world as it is and working with how things are permeates the forty eight loss of power advise you to go back and read the preface is very much like mark Israelis advocating the feel of
00:46:04the level of detachment fact I believe a use that quote from him so those it's not far off from stoicism but the latest book is more about is more in that Stoke spirit than the forty eight laws it's more about accepting this is nature this does have a
00:46:25word logos this is these this is the way that the universe is this is what permeates the laws that govern all behavior and so I'm very much in that spirit of of kind of looking at people with some distance but all my books or approaching life with a
00:46:40little bit of detachment because I feel like that's what will make you happier and also more successful general and we speak a little bit to you how you met of charming and and became a part of join the board of American apparel well %HESITATION dove was a big
00:47:00fans probably about %HESITATION for I think %HESITATION he was a big fan of the forty eight laws %HESITATION it probably the biggest fan of ever met he was you know pretty fanatic about it and he had just had started American apparel maybe three or four years before and
00:47:18he opened his first store in Los Angeles there was only one store when I met him end up kind of clicked you know both Jewish both of a certain way of looking at the world he's very charismatic exciting person he'd built this company out of nothing and I
00:47:38was impressed with him he had a dark side dark side that came out later did you see any of that at first %HESITATION well not really not really I mean I could see that he was extremely driven and quite aggressive but he did it generally treat people fairly
00:48:00well %HESITATION but there wasn't the %HESITATION I don't know non abusive side to him he wasn't his attitude towards women could be not so great and some people would point that out and I was a little bit blind because I did like him %HESITATION and then he took
00:48:22me on as a consultant for the company and then it went public for American apparel and public in %HESITATION seven oh eight I don't remember the exact %HESITATION thing was %HESITATION eight as well when the crash occurred and he asked me to come on the board of directors
00:48:38which is kind of crazy because I'm not a business person I really don't know much I don't know I can't tell you what even is %HESITATION and being on the board is a pretty heavy job but I said okay I'll do the interesting experience and it was an
00:48:55interesting experience %HESITATION I got to see business from the inside I learned a lot I learned a lot about why businesses lot of businesses fail and %HESITATION why going public and being on Wall Street can be the death of a company we speak to that well you know
00:49:17it's something that Ilan mosque very much for you you we control very parallel lines between musky Charney %HESITATION in that when you're an entrepreneur liked of his or like you on and %HESITATION it's very powerful vision you your impatience is that you want to grow your company very
00:49:37quickly in the quickest way to grow companies to go public because you can get your hands on a lot more money than a few private it has a lot of money of but with going public comes a board of directors comes Wall Street comes quarterly reports you have
00:49:54to report to your shareholders comes pressures and limits and so you're seduced into doing this because you're a patient to grow you know what that glittering pot of money it's also very prestigious going public it's kind of an exciting moment and ring the bell yeah rang the bell
00:50:12is the whole thing yeah yeah but so you what is your instinct well I'm losing control %HESITATION control freak write a better stacked the board with my people I like now sometimes you can do that dove had a problem in that he had other outside investors who forced
00:50:31him to bring in people for the board so he wanted me there is a loyalist %HESITATION Ilan mosque sort of stacked his board like Facebook stack they're bored with people who are kind of loyalists so that's your instinct to protect yourself from the pressures of being going public
00:50:49gonna bring but %HESITATION when you're on the board of directors your loyalty is not to the CEO but to the shareholders and you feel pulled in both directions because you are legally vulnerable if you don't take actions that are in the shareholder interest and if you only side
00:51:11with the C. E. O. this problems and dangers with that to pull them both directions and often share of people on the board we'll start rebelling like they have with the lawn musk with things are quite going right to take it you off Twitter stone smoke pot etcetera
00:51:28because it's hurting the bottom line it's hurting the you know the image the brand and so you know Ilan mosque is toying with the idea of going private again and dole it doubles doing the same thing you want to take it back private because they realize they made
00:51:46a mistake that this was constraining them third the great entrepreneurial maverick type style but at that point going private wasn't going to be a solution either you know skin to feed your own grandiosity and is done starting to accrue indiscretion at this point where you became aware of
00:52:05things that you knew would inevitably probably bring him down well %HESITATION I remember okay a coupon occasion I can remember what year was I saw that he was having problems in that %HESITATION other people on the border beginning to not forgetting to doubt him and the Cup company
00:52:28wasn't doing too well we were found we were floundering reading we owed so much money because of the crash no wait to some of it was circumstances and I said you know morale in the company's kind of down city of you need to reconnect and show people that
00:52:46you have a vision for where American apparel's going it's not enough to created this brand it you have it so well known by two thousand eleven you have to think longer term to the where is where we could be in five years and bring it to the company
00:53:00and and solidified show to the board and I recommended having retreats doing this and very in it what one through one ear and out the other as at this point I'm realizing it's not gonna listen he's gonna do what do you what he's going to do he started
00:53:16having some hair brained ideas such as thinking that American apparel could become like a designer label and come out with a can remember what it was it was like this new brand of jeans he decided to redo the stores so that it would not be what it was
00:53:31but be kind of something that was more a little bit more fashionable and that was a mistake as he started to make mistakes problems with starting to accumulate cascading and then he decided to build a factory out in I forget where towards and peach or somewhere where %HESITATION
00:53:56the problem was there was the factory downtown and how were things then where do they go from there was there manufactured right how's the how's it delivered and it was kind of chaotic use going to build a place that would be where everything would go and it would
00:54:12funnel all of the products and be shipped directly from this one place and sort of streamlined pre everything but it was a nightmare he he he is like a lawn musky executed too quickly he didn't think it out who is in way over his head the technology for
00:54:29sorting all the different products was weak it wasn't well developed and it was costing huge amounts of money at the moment when we were already millions of dollars in debt it was at that point that I realize that this is ship is going down at the same time
00:54:45there was some things coming out about lawsuits about sexual cases etcetera me and another board member couple poor members decided that maybe we have to think of replacing tough but we met with him one last time me in one of the board member to try and see if
00:55:03we could help him and and not have this happen and he didn't get angry but he wasn't listening we were trying to send a signal but I tell you to the state with ended up firing tough and I almost regretted I almost wish we hadn't anyway no above
00:55:22by this company came in standard generals are quite well the Davis said of take over our dead yes get a controlling interest and %HESITATION they just had no understanding of the business of the peril business of fashion and it was going to be a disaster they fired me
00:55:43but %HESITATION I'm not bitter wasn't bitterness but it was like these people have no vision of what it and apparently I'm not good at the business side but I know fashion and I know what makes a brand like that and I understood American pro very deep because I've
00:55:58been involved with it yeah for many years and I knew was a disaster it would have been better if we just left of their to bring the whole thing down himself then let the so the company can destroy it but does does does have a a second an
00:56:14act to his life do you think I think %HESITATION you know Ryan is writing a little bit about this in his new book that he's currently working on but he he's sort of %HESITATION detained level of imbalance I still like him I respect of I don't have anything
00:56:31against him part of me still feels bad about what happened to you or me you don't talk anymore number to talk anymore part of me feels guilty but also I realize we did the right thing %HESITATION but he reached a level where he was not sleeping hedge fund
00:56:49was the word sorry hedge funds of hedge fund come a day ahead so %HESITATION he's not sleeping he wasn't eating well and he was getting very mentally imbalanced %HESITATION I have a chapter in my new book about grandiosity and how a lot of leaders succumb to grandiosity in
00:57:09the I con I use is Michael Eisner an eye chart very carefully in the book how Michael Eisner started off successful and how it all went to his head and he succumbed to grandiosity and it became a disaster was with the greatest falls in the history of business
00:57:28well dove became grandiose he thought he could do no wrong has he learned his lesson I don't think so to see still have his finger on the pulse of fashion I don't think so I saw something where his new company I don't know you know it kind of
00:57:44seems like more the same in some more of the same but not really cutting wires times that we're living it yeah which is odd because I talked in the forty eight loss of power about always being up with the times that you ten as you get older to
00:57:57get locked in the peer review use doves thing was you know sexy clothes model of the nineteen eighties in %HESITATION that's not where we are right now that's what I for sun twenty eleven that was in the future American apparel had to build on what it already created
00:58:16but kind of grow in new directions millennials word connecting to it so well is he still have that touch of of the zeitgeist you know which is another thing I talk about the new book I think he doesn't really have it so I'm not I'm not yes so
00:58:33optimistic do you think could you speak a lot about grandiosity and you see how it can be an asset in certain respects if it if it's governed or eight yeah please speak to the side where it can be well it in just a moment to keep talking about
00:58:49my new book with the loss of human nature yeah each chapter ends with section about how you can turn this potentially negative tree into something positive so I kept at the end of grandiosity I talk about what I call practical grandiosity the problems grandiosity is that you lose
00:59:06contact with reality right you think that your perfect do you think that your infallible you think the people should just follow you no matter what that all your ideas are brilliant Judah build euro Disney in Paris your Paris because French people will appreciate this great you know the
00:59:26culture that you've reached the you bring to the mix of Disneyland and French culture this is the worst possible idea soap but there's a positive element of grandiosity which is your dream vehicle if you were talking about with the lan mask is kind of a cool Honus you've
00:59:43got the balls to imagine something big to try and bring it to pass so people without any kind of grandiose sense are like %HESITATION you mention %HESITATION I don't think I could ever pull that off I'm not even going to try I'm not good enough to do this
00:59:59you need to have some of that energy but what I talk about in my book is it needs to be practical it needs to be grounded in reality so for instance %HESITATION people who work grandiose %HESITATION can help can be very persistent right like Ilan musket of churning
01:00:19getting what they want will process is a very positive quality you want that in your life that has to be tied to something like I talked about was Thomas Edison were you willing to put in the thousands of hours and doing the work you know you want to
01:00:35have a large vision for where you're going to be in five years ten years or something some great thing that you created but you also wanna grounded in in in a practical sense you want to have a very realizable set of goals that you're going to reach not
01:00:50I'm going to build the next general motors but how may get a bill that slowly step by step by step whose says CEO or someone of that %HESITATION position who you think is doing it incredibly well well %HESITATION I think the guy who's the CEO of net net
01:01:09Flix reed Hastings yeah is done a very good job he somebody whom few years ago I made a mistake a camera what was he tweeted something wrong he apologized in the right way thirty had to apologize in the right ways very powerful thing he learns from his mistakes
01:01:25I read an article recently about the new CEO Best Buy he very much follows this he realizes that he's in a dying industry nobody buys tech hardware anymore from store share so he's going to build it slowly and he's going to figure out the niche that he can
01:01:41carve out in this New World I believe Warren Buffett who's a business leader a quote a lot in this book he's obviously older of a different generation but he's very much in this mold %HESITATION what I like about him is that he is a maverick he's a rebel
01:02:00he never goes with the conventional wisdom because against the trend when people were getting all exhibit in the sixties in the stock market was growing higher that's when he sold because he saw that people were crazy into the same thing in %HESITATION eighty warned about the the subprime
01:02:17disaster that was coming so he goes against the times when he needs to but he's very practical and he's very his incredibly large vision of his company and nobody can argue with his success and and he's like the most profitable come company in the history of the world
01:02:36but %HESITATION he knows his own limits he knows that when he buys the company he's not just buying %HESITATION numbers he's buying people see very much researches CEOs that fit his way of thinking who will run the business his way kind of like we were talking about earlier
01:02:55someone will execute his ideas so he's very practical but he also has the sort of old overarching vision and I think would be great if we had politicians more like that but we don't well and and I think too it's the idea of it more buff it knows
01:03:11that in a recession or in a booming market people will always drink coke right it's just a very simple idea right it's companies that he can wrap his head around right and do you think of that I'm interested to hear and and useful into it a little bit
01:03:28but and this is a completely %HESITATION self interest question what do you think about the I I would almost say that the epidemic of negative self talk right like this shitty committee that so I know I suffer from that so many people I feel like impedes their ability
01:03:46to succeed is that we over think things we see things ten steps down the road and it's all doom and gloom so why even try right and I I find it can be so in six were the feisty love people your age you see notice and a lot
01:04:01of people you know Jews no use for sure neurotic you know sure choose to but the Jewish energy can become something very positive sure because %HESITATION if you do it right because I write a book then I think of this book is gonna suck it's going to fail
01:04:20my parents were right I'm a loser had better go %HESITATION to promote the hell out of it otherwise it's going to flop right so you can turn that energy into like doing something positive but it can wear you down %HESITATION the main thing is you know things have
01:04:39to happen organically in life you can't suddenly wake up and say cut down the start this businessman to make a fortune it has to come through a process that process is what we were talking about earlier and I talked about in mastery you found the right career path
01:04:57for you you headed direction that is appealing to you you've develop skills solid skills as an actor as an interviewer it cetera okay and now it's time for you to branch out on your own you're thirty it's time to make that business to write that novel to direct
01:05:19that film you've you're not just floundering in the sea with like great visions you have something very solid behind you years of work experience discipline now when you come up with an idea you've already taught yourself there's a bridge between an idea and executed execution you had to
01:05:40learn that you learned that in acting you can't just go in and ace the part you have to prepare you have to learn you have to be disciplined you have to go through the criticism okay that gives you a level of confidence occult trusting the process the process
01:05:56will bring you to a point where you're ready to make something creative if you follow that you won't have that experience that you were talking about people will be coming to you and say %HESITATION Robert that's a bad business idea don't do that you go you know I
01:06:10I feel confident is already tested of or even thinking about it for five years of already been developing the ideas I have the skills we've don't have the skills you don't have the experience to back you up just suddenly come to this idea naturally the for some negative
01:06:27were the comes in from your parents you'll just melt and you all you're right I can't do it yeah yeah you know so if you follow the right few patient and you've done done the right things you want to your apprenticeship you learned you need to learn and
01:06:42you're excited about something you're much less susceptible to listen to people's criticisms and negative ideas and believe me I have a lot of experience in this I've seen a lot of times people have a great idea to come to me Robert have the greatest idea for a book
01:07:00okay all right here's how I think you should do accomplish it and I point out all of the horrible leg routes that connect to go to to bring that about I never hear from them again course that's it because the moment I'd shatter their dream they say to
01:07:15make this book it's not a bad idea don't have better ideas it's usually not negative it's usually should listen there's always a kernel of something good in it but you have to learn to list of the people you have to execute it if you go through the the
01:07:31hard laborious tedious process that's when people lose interest I mean I've had friends pitch me ideas before and I don't have the heart to tell them that like this seems like it could be compelling but you're not the one to execute it like that's I find that you
01:07:47know in watching like things like shark tank and what have you you learn so quickly that like the idea is almost slightly unless it's completely Ravel adoring ground breaking is kind of the easy part but it's it's a leg work that truly is what tests your ability in
01:08:02which to execute well the thing is when you're starting out in your career %HESITATION I talk about this in mastery you have to develop discipline and can a diligent work ethic %HESITATION you have to learn the skill and that requires going through something tedious you know I talk
01:08:20about the basketball player bill Bradley in that book and he was a white guy who couldn't jump very high who Justin wasn't naturally gifted for the sport but he loved it and he twenty one to this insane rigorous process of teaching himself the most boring tasks in basketball
01:08:39he put chairs in his off in his in his bedroom at his house and learn how to maneuver in between them and pivot and center and was boring kind of tasks recreated classes where he couldn't look down and he would dribble for hours and hours so we can
01:08:55learn how to dribble without looking down seeing when you do that you develop you don't and you learned that the more you practice the better you get at something at a point it becomes more pleasurable if you want to learn the piano it's very boring at first you
01:09:13can only play the most boring songs but after a year of regular practice suddenly becomes more fun to use even more fun three it's even more fun you learned that the discipline and the step by step opens up a whole world to you know you can do something
01:09:30else and so when you help come up with the project for it podcaster film and you're facing all the tedious legwork you're not in the slightest bit intimidated by you actually embrace it you know yet to write my books to write this last book I had to go
01:09:48read three hundred books more than three hundred books of researching taken I can show you my note cards and you'll like you like vomit work a I did in the tedious miss of it but I hope the part of it I've come to brace it it's actually fun
01:10:03you know it's like I compared to building a cathedral you can't suddenly start putting statues of do you have to build the foundation brick by brick by brick by brick NO a will in doing that immense amount of research and preparation then and then when you never really
01:10:21put pen to paper or fingers to the keyboard what is that look like for you to write quickly what's we give us a bit of your yeah include assets never been that way and this last book is even worse in that you never just sit down and write
01:10:38so %HESITATION basically I start out with a very open mind %HESITATION when it come to this book on human nature %HESITATION I want to explore all of those different feel psychology anthropology of econ economists things about human behavior %HESITATION novelists every fifth of neuroscience and I have as
01:11:01I've said before I have a kind of bias towards seeing people the semen nature in a negative light so wanted to balance that out by looking at books that are more positive I just open it up to everything and as I'm taking these cards writing notes I begin
01:11:18to see patterns and these patterns turn into chapters in this book there eighteen chapters one envy wanna grandiosity one irrationality one on the shadow dark side of people's personality one non conformity one on %HESITATION on %HESITATION short sightedness on and on but in doing all the research I
01:11:44saw these these were categories patterns that are timeless you can look at the Bible and you could see stories of envy like Joseph and his brothers setter and so I have my chapters and now I have to write a chapter well I just don't start writing and have
01:11:58to take all the knowledge and information that I've accumulated and structure it is the structure is very important and so I begin each chapter with a story about a famous person who exemplifies the law I have to go through all of my note cards ferry laborious it's very
01:12:15boring and I have to find a way to take eight hundred page biography of Queen Elizabeth for instance and turn it into an eight page story about her life illustrating how she was incredible exuding authority at a time where women were could not possibly exude and be a
01:12:36leader like that so it's very I have to work really hard in making that story dramatic in choosing the most the juiciest bits from our live in writing it in a fun way that will engage the reader on on on it's tedious the first draft is usually very
01:12:54bad very mediocre any kind of to embrace that right like you have to write it bad first for yeah come great sometimes of the moments we get excited and it gets a little bit better but you need something %HESITATION I always have to be excited cat I have
01:13:09to always meet there's always it often in the second and third draft that things are becoming more fun am able to bring more myself into it what's the babies to avoid Josh pack out in full effect come for you one hundred percent reading you an ad because this
01:13:27show is for profit okay what do you think this podcast is charity no we need to make money over here sooner do your part listen up god macworld in ya know about that because their mission is simple they want to make sure all your basics and beyond our
01:13:43smartly designed and shopping for them is easy and convenient that's where they found a mac well then because we wanted more out of our basics and always question how something so freaking essential could be such a pain in the **** to buy that golden believes in smart design
01:14:00premium fabrics simple shopping yellow then online about that simple shopping because I recently was on the back holding site I like building my basket lickety split all of a sudden like a day later whoa there's my stuff I couldn't believe it like it just was incredibly easy syncing
01:14:18process and you know how websites can be with their like you'll let me ask you a forty five questions and what's your grandmother's billing address sure like what is my grandmother have to do with this and the like don't worry about it do you want your stuff or
01:14:30not answer questions that golden ink that way okay they want you to be comfortable so if you don't like your first pair you can keep it and they will still refined you know questions ask they're just you know they they just offer so much they they got the
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01:15:04at checkout that's twenty percent off your first order visit macworld in dot com enter promo code curious at check out do you have like a set of apostles like people who you send the straps to to get notes from well on a in there she's look she's been
01:15:21what we've been together for almost thirty years laughed and %HESITATION she's with all my whenever I finish a chapter she's the first one to read it she first I was look at verse bit neurotic and secure does it suck every now and then she'll give me a seated
01:15:39her at her responses and very excited sure but she reads it she added that she tells me what works what doesn't work so that that's my main apostle that's huge my wife's that way too yeah it's incredible how our partners can have such insight into things that we
01:15:57were sometimes blind to or that's what I meant about you need people who can give you objective opinion about your work and if someone is the pitfalls with that because we can get into fights for I feel like she's being personal chef hat that but it really helps
01:16:11the I trust her and I love her so I know she's not coming from a place of pettiness sore right envy any trust her tastes like I politely I love my wife's taste against one of her greatest assets does great yeah the other things but my wife's a
01:16:26filmmaker she she directs films and I help her a lot do the same thing for her right so because back in for the move just one way she might start resenting it but share %HESITATION and we talk about a I listen to you and Dave Asprey spot gas
01:16:41and bulletproof bulletproof any sort of talked about like the illusory nature of someone like Donald Trump who from afar would seem as though he he exudes sort of the forty eight laws in some respect and yet there's it lacks it being tethered in anything real or that matters
01:17:01yeah well I have to confess that I'm I'm a liberal and I'd really love him but I'm trying to be objective here same here and not bring it in %HESITATION but personal into this there are some laws that he is brilliant and I have to give him credit
01:17:15corded tension at all cost yes there's probably never been anyone who's been so good at that law he knows a dominate the media's fear every day by day by day in a six psychopathic way he's brilliant at court attention at all cost I can think of you know
01:17:33create compelling spectacles for his base he certainly knows how to create very compelling spectacles so I'm sure there are a couple other laws that he's good at but in the overall I would not consider him a person of great power in that %HESITATION he's good at them at
01:17:51the marketing aspect which he learned from being on a reality show is basically an actor but he's in the you know he's the president of the most powerful country in the world immense bureaucracy immensely complicated and you know I believe as I've told other people time will tell
01:18:12we can you know the economy seems well seems to be doing really well maybe he's on to something with treat China I don't know I maintain that none of this will come to anything good because he's not a strategic person he's not in control of himself a person
01:18:29of power is in control of himself he says less than necessary if you ever heard Donald Trump say something say less than necessary long number four not recently no guy never right he's not actually doesn't master himself he's like and it is like a raging it yeah you
01:18:47know he loves to argue loves to argue which isn't on the violence that law he's not a great could use an awful courtier un it cetera et cetera despise the free lunch was to get everything for free each is never pays taxes so I maintain that in the
01:19:05end this lack of self control is going to be his downfall I've told people looking two years we're gonna be facing some disasters that are gonna be of his creation he's going to create he's gonna go down as one of the worst presidents we've ever hat and when
01:19:20it comes to power you can't judge people in the media in the present tense you have to wait and see how things pan out you know %HESITATION all the president's been like that I remember %HESITATION somebody wants this famous story about the French premier Chinese premier who is
01:19:39asked what do you think of who do you think won the French Revolution and he goes I don't we haven't found out yet like two hundred years later so things take time to reveal what happened who is powerful who was not people who seem great in the present
01:19:57fall pardon crack up and we only realize in retrospect but the idea that somebody is completely giving into their narcissism their anger that resentment and using that to fuel their success that can't possibly last in my opinion and will and what do you think it seems as though
01:20:19me one other thing I'll say to these powers a numbers game and I make that point I forget the law it's %HESITATION every witch law it is but %HESITATION it's basically about you have to create a base of support as large as possible Inc and build your power
01:20:36on that the more people you convert the stronger you are and his whole strategy is is the opposite is creating this energized radio active base of thirty six percent of people he's put himself into a corner how will we ever get out of that corner holy ever appeal
01:20:57to a wider audience so narrowing your base of support is not a powerful strategy and I just I only have two more questions for you I am and if you've you're comfortable to talk about it or not please let me know would you know just a personal question
01:21:16you've obviously recently had a health challenge do you feel comfortable kind of talking about it yeah I had a stroke about a little over two months ago and %HESITATION you know some of it came from working on the loss of human nature real worked a little too hard
01:21:34the stress I developed high blood pressure medical images cation what does that look like like staying up all night working on it not now I I work three hours a day had not more than that just too much thinking trying to are just worrying about things too much
01:21:51as soon as I would go to bed and I would be so exhausted I couldn't think of them in a break up in the morning I work too hard but I got through because I exercise everyday I meditate I eat well but I did have high blood pressure
01:22:06and then I and I have high cholesterol not not a good mix but I was dealing with that then in early August strangely enough I was walking in Griffith park nearby and the beast on me in the neck and it was fine if it peace many times my
01:22:24life but a week later it just got massively inflamed my whole body on the side I had to go to the hospital and they put me on prednisone which is a drug that kind of steroids steroid and increase my blood pressure was getting very jittery enough to stop
01:22:39taking and about a week later of striving with with ana and she's let me pull over immediately sizzles something wasn't right my face was drooping of lost control of my body I didn't realize I was having a stroke she called nine one one and they were over there
01:23:01in minutes and they rushed to the hospital it hadn't been for her eight fitted con on ten minutes later overhead brain damage that I would never recover from and I might have gone in a terrible automobile accident could have died it's very is like a near death experience
01:23:18terrifying terrifying cells rush to the hospital and they operated on me I was in the hospital for a week but mostly what happens is the my left side of my body because the stroke the brain damage is on the right or left side of the body is very
01:23:36weak and kind of useless %HESITATION temporarily temporarily %HESITATION the leases for the doctor said I should be able to recover but it's very slow ferry painstaking you have to learn also the basic skills which is how to pick things up and how to move your arm up I
01:23:56we can go I couldn't do what I'm doing right now bringing your hand to your your mouth yeah like %HESITATION it like you're drinking a Cup of coffee or you can get my hand around a couple can do that now but I can't really lifted or walking walking
01:24:09is a real nightmare but day by day by day by day it's gonna get better I'm doing like three hours of therapy today like occupational therapy and physical therapy walking shoulder exercises finger exercises toe exercises leg exercises that's what razor for was there ever a moment where it
01:24:32affected your brain not just the the physical sort of side of it but where you got a fear that like all my god is her chance I may not be able to do what I do yeah but from the very beginning I was very loose that I never
01:24:44had my speech was a little bit slurred arms and I'm still a little bit weaker haven't completely got my voice back but %HESITATION she can attest Ford in the hospital I was making all kinds of jokes and making the nurses laugh Sir my weird sense of humor was
01:25:03still there my weird way of looking at it and dealing with people I hadn't really changed and %HESITATION I could stay in sometimes of a slight memory lapses but I really don't think anything yeah rain was was damaged but we'll see in the next book surest who Lee
01:25:20you know how far off of and maybe it'll actually help me yeah you never know maybe under similar things but I was on a show the other day and the host asked me to a regret you know all the hard work that led to the stroke in you
01:25:35know was it worth it my answer was yes %HESITATION hell yeah yeah because this book took me five years to write it's the distillation of everything I've learned in life I'll have the for the rest of my life you can show that I feel proud achieved it I've
01:25:52brought it back to pass it kind of ruined my health assist price had to pay but I would never exchange well for not having written the book I would feel very unfulfilled ahead missed something that I was meant to say did you smell toast you know they say
01:26:12that when you're having a stroke I've never heard that %HESITATION yeah it's a common thing it a smell of the toast the burnt toast or rubber %HESITATION like there is now this is really weird because I didn't know what was happening she sought I felt like everything was
01:26:29fine the next thing I know I'm amid ambulance and I don't really remember it and then I'm in the hospital and slowly slowly answer realizing what's going on but I never had anything like that now which is suddenly came over but of one thing I forgot is where
01:26:46the blood clot will occurred that ended up a creating the stroke was the exact same spot of the bee sting where it was there any correlation they they believe so that the inflammation that that created led to the clotting at that particular place huh so I was probably
01:27:07had a tendency towards something could have happened could've been fifteen years later but that kind of triggered it ma'am the combination of the blood pressure and the cholesterol what was the most revealing thing this sort of come out of a near death experience for you well %HESITATION it's
01:27:27that %HESITATION you know I have to kind of reassess who I am I have to I have always someone who values independent doing everything myself being in control and I lost control very dependent right now %HESITATION I can do simple things I can't do my exercise so I've
01:27:50had to be I have to accept it because fighting that will just make me some people get very frustrated with the stroke and just kind of wears you down I've had to accept it at the same time I'm ferocious in getting back to where I was I'm not
01:28:09gonna let this stop me I'm going to get over this but is very it's a daily struggle because %HESITATION I've been walking now for about five weeks with the key and your left foot this is the war drags you can't raise it see kind of shuffling left foot
01:28:32and it still won't go away it's fear like dammit I walk like you know like like Satan you know with this Clifford cloven hoof should or you know it looks terrible but I have to be patient eventually I'll get over it's the last thing that the comes back
01:28:48because it's the furthest thing from your brain or your toes and your foot and a cane is kind of hemp can you know it's like I got myself a kind of yeah there's another one out there that I might get which is purple Paisley I like that all
01:29:04right acrylic candle simply begin the outfit to match yeah I can get into the I like quality so my last question **** at the end of all my podcasts if you had one or two Robert green commandments that you wanted to impress upon other people I mean it's
01:29:27sort of your life's work I feel like to to have these but what what would they be well the one thing that I would say is to embrace you uniqueness embrace your weirdness that is your source of strength in life talk about that in all of my books
01:29:43in master in my new book %HESITATION and that's what people violate all the time it comes from when you're in high school and your weirdness is what people make fun of okay maybe you a rebel and you have a Mohawk but you conforming to that little group and
01:30:00everybody in your group kind of validate too but if you're in that rebel punk group in high school and you certainly do something that's different because you're not exactly like everyone else they'll ridicule you people are always ridiculing you try to make you conform to the group and
01:30:16it gets worse and worse and worse and worse as you get older and your source of power in life is you is what exactly other people might criticize you for you you weirdness uniqueness your ideas that nobody else has now you can go too far in that you
01:30:34know you could become a loner or or insane person you have to connect to society and to other people but %HESITATION following embracing what makes you different and weird and strange is the path to power you know yes you weren't meant to be just a child actor or
01:30:54an actor you were meant to do something else and you creating send a podcast curious that reflects you as you probably were when you were eight years old probably what made you kind of a strange kid in some ways maybe people made fun of you I don't know
01:31:09%HESITATION yeah was fat too so that welcomed a lot of %HESITATION okay cat criticism okay but I think you're right yeah so anybody who's ever been successful you look at them he said there's one of a kind it's never been a Steve Jobs ever before there's never been
01:31:27Warren Buffett there's never been a member we put in that box Albert Einstein unique because they were embraced what makes them different yeah it comes with some pain and I know with my books for the loss of power you might hate it you might think it's satanic but
01:31:47I can guarantee you you've never read this in a book that looks like it right with its sections that I created totally the paragraphs the quotes that things on sites the shapes and it's reflects me it reflects my weirdness and the publisher at one point was a little
01:32:05frightened by that they want a more conventional book and I said no Ste I know I'm never published anything before but I'm sticking to what I have here so I stuck to what was strange about me %HESITATION that's your source of power the second thing is is something
01:32:23that I address in all my books but most notably in the loss of human nature is that were social animals %HESITATION we were meant to be able to work with other people we are created by other people were not really individuals our another kind of violates what I
01:32:43just said but I can connect the two we're we're composite if we didn't choose our DNA our parents are we our brains are wired we have certain teachers that we don't choose the things it be are beyond our control so we're not completely in control of everything but
01:33:06one thing is is that you can succeed in life unless you are able to work with other people on a high level with you able to understand the psychology see them as individuals and work with them know how to persuade and influence people and not put push them
01:33:23away know how to deal with toxic types that that will confront you so that is what I've created for the loss of human nature for the code train you in the basics of human psychology how to deal with difficult people up there and the problem that a lot
01:33:43of people have in the world today is they're not social enough there so locked in their phones in their digital world post mates %HESITATION post mates Dino post me it's a food delivery service you never have to go outside and actually meet anyone right convenience right so it's
01:34:03you're not human humans have mirror neurons we responded body language you can learn you can learn much more from being in front of a person and watch them on the screen we respond to the physical in life you need to have more interaction social interactions is like if
01:34:22you want to be a great tennis player the more you hit the backstroke the better you get and the more you deal with people in social situations the more confident the better you will deal that is that a lot of people are really really really bad at their
01:34:39very awkward they haven't learned how to get outside of themselves and so major part of my new book is about developing empathy and learning how to get inside the perspective of the people I think learning that skill would be a measure of Q. %HESITATION for a lot of
01:34:58the problems illnesses that we're seeing in the world today loneliness anger online rage of narcissism so I wrote this book in a way to kind of address some of these deadly illnesses and since that %HESITATION pervading is but perfecting your ability to get along with people you might
01:35:18have great technical skills you might be a great actor writer but if you don't understand people and you piss them off and you insult them indeed for the you're not going to get very far life so that's sort of my second basic rule that that was Robert green
01:35:38what an interview Ryan holiday is next week %HESITATION and go buy this book the laws of human nature it is %HESITATION just the pure don't miss your gonna love it you're welcome enjoy that **** our guys have an incredible week sorry about my early rant %HESITATION before the
01:35:57episode but you know what I mean you listen to the pod this is episode thirty one you know what the **** you get into you know who I am you know who your boy is I'm all types of crazy that I'm real deal without the peel you know
01:36:09say so glad that rhymed because if it didn't it just would be such a sour note in the podcast on anyway guys I love you I think about you and that's it what else you need to know any more than that well then you're needy we've got some
01:36:31weird codependent stuff going on and I can't help you with that all right my phone's ringing I gotta love you bye

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