Full Transcript for Ryman: Driven Past the Ryman the Day He Was Born

um, you go- you leaned in a little bit to the hip hop world- [laughs]... 29 00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:23.520 and it was, like, a little bit of, I don't know, like, a genre whiplash to, like, maybe do that and then, like, come back. Um- Yeah... how much did that 30 00:05:24.440 --> 00:05:36.820 era, for lack of a better term, how much did that era sort of inform the sound and the feeling of this album? A lot of that stuff, I signed with a hip hop indie label when I was 15, and 31 00:05:38.220 --> 00:05:41.000 I don't think that I knew what I wanted to sound like, you know what I mean? 32 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:51.340 Like, I was just a high schooler trying to make music that sounded like the music that I listened to, and I didn't have enough life experience to, like, I really had- didn't have a whole lot to say, 33 00:05:52.420 --> 00:06:02.100 um, and, like, wasn't really driving the ship creative direction-wise. Just being kind of like a yes man. Obviously, being 15, [chuckles] I didn't know what I was doing. 34 00:06:02.820 --> 00:06:10.060 But I feel like just as I've gotten older and I've fallen more in love with just-- I mean, I've always been into lyrics, but, like- 35 00:06:12.004 --> 00:06:20.764 Just my, my taste has changed in listening to more singer-songwriter and folk records, and that's the kind of music that I was raised on when I was super young. 36 00:06:20.864 --> 00:06:30.844 I mean, my first concert ever was Loretta Lynn, and my dad is the biggest Jackson Browne and Bob Dylan fan, and he was a writer and has always been a song snob. 37 00:06:31.644 --> 00:06:45.284 And I just think as I've gotten older and, like, I've connected with a lot more kinds of music, and I feel like just, like, tapped back into my roots and the earliest stuff that I was raised on. Awesome. And your dad... 38 00:06:45.604 --> 00:06:55.124 Does your dad play harmonica on one of the songs in this album? He, he did, and I, I got him up at Lollapalooza this past weekend to- [laughs]... to play on a song, which was fun. 39 00:06:55.744 --> 00:07:09.184 I read somewhere too where you mentioned he was a musician, but I think when he started having a family, he, he opted to sort of prioritize, I think, more consistent income and s- and stable income, right- Yeah... 40 00:07:09.224 --> 00:07:10.984 for the, for the betterment of the family. 41 00:07:11.524 --> 00:07:24.624 I guess, what lessons does that provide you as you're, like, early adulthood, and not that you're maybe planning a family, uh, in the, in the near term or anything like that, but what kind of example did, did that set for you, and what kind of lessons did you learn from that? 42 00:07:25.464 --> 00:07:34.604 I mean, it definitely is, like, a super selfless thing to do. I can't imagine working towards getting a pub deal, and once, like, one's offered, being like, "I don't know." 43 00:07:34.784 --> 00:07:41.904 It's bigger than yourself and being like, "That's not enough to give the kids, the-- my kids the life that I want to give them." 44 00:07:42.724 --> 00:07:50.664 I respect him for that, and obviously he's found something that he's passionate about that is, like, his calling and what he's meant to do. 45 00:07:51.484 --> 00:08:04.484 Um, but because of a sacrifice like that, being able to provide me with the best foundation and groundwork, uh, to achieving my dreams and what I'm trying to do, he's always been my biggest champion, him and my mom both. 46 00:08:04.604 --> 00:08:16.284 I'm very grateful for that, and I don't take it for granted. Buying me gear, or I don't know, just putting me in the position to write songs. So you mentioned a publishing deal. 47 00:08:16.344 --> 00:08:23.604 I think you've, you've signed with, is it Concord? I have, yes. With the publishing? Okay. I'm not an expert in all the things, but, um, 48 00:08:24.744 --> 00:08:37.104 I guess y- you write your own stuff, and then you also may write for other people that may, may pick 'em up and record, right? So- Yeah... I guess, are you doing that more from a creative outlet perspective, 49 00:08:38.024 --> 00:08:52.424 or does it kinda hearken back to the lessons of your dad, which is the publishing deal, in addition to me being a musician and touring and things like that, I'm, I'm able to diversify my income and maybe provide a more stable kinda career path for yourself, you know? 50 00:08:53.544 --> 00:09:03.384 Yeah, it's just, like... It's something I, like, can't even wrap my head around, that my job now on paper is for me to, like, write songs, and it's kinda always wanted to do that, and even my dad wanted to do that. 51 00:09:03.464 --> 00:09:08.704 So I know he's proud, uh, and I'm very thankful to be where I'm at over at Concord. 52 00:09:08.944 --> 00:09:21.104 They put me in rooms with whoever I wanna work with, which is really neat, and I've gotten to write with producers and writers that have written some of my favorite songs of all time. So feel blessed in that regard. 53 00:09:21.784 --> 00:09:33.184 Yeah, very, very good. Yeah, so on that realm, you mentioned Lollapalooza. You're also gonna per- be performing at Americana Fest, uh, Bourbon & Beyond, um- Yeah... and a bunch of others. I mean, 54 00:09:34.364 --> 00:09:44.144 is this kinda what you've been building for, in terms of, like, the run of shows and sort of the, you know, the things that you're, you're waking up doing every day? Yeah, I, like, definitely have been in such, like, 55 00:09:45.184 --> 00:09:54.444 a head space of just locking in on, like, the shows. That's, like, kinda all I've thought about for the last couple weeks. But now that we have the Albert Lee show and Lollapalooza out of the way... 56 00:09:54.504 --> 00:10:05.884 'Cause tho- those were our first shows together. I hadn't played with a band in years, and so it's definitely a little out of my element. Um, but now I feel so much more comfortable. 57 00:10:06.024 --> 00:10:17.484 I mean, we fly out tomorrow for

Outside Lands in San Francisco- Yeah... and then we'll be back home for a little bit, and then out again, back, out again. I- Yeah... it'll be fun. All right. 58 00:10:17.524 --> 00:10:26.444 So I, I wanna come back to the, the festival stages, but before I go th- C- Can I come back at the... Kind of a related question. So some- Yeah... of the recording process of the album, 59 00:10:27.484 --> 00:10:39.564 you recorded it, I think, live without, without any click tracks on some of the songs, right? Yeah. Up, Up in the Air was, was one, and, and Strangers Again were two that we, we started with just guitar. 60 00:10:39.804 --> 00:10:43.304 Up in the Air, like, I, I just played the song in the room. 61 00:10:43.544 --> 00:10:59.024 We had, like, a couple microphones and a couple iPhones doing voice memos, and we had two guitars, and just had me play and sing the whole song, and then we added, like, bass, drums, and pedal steel, and then got Emma Osier to come sing BGVs, and that was the whole song. 62 00:10:59.284 --> 00:11:10.164 As we made the record, we kinda, like, figured out-- I mean, it was my first time making an album, like what my, like, sound is and dialing that in, and less is more was a lot of the record. 63 00:11:10.284 --> 00:11:18.604 We just wanted it to feel very human 'cause, like, that's how the songs feel, you know? Sure. Back to the festival. 64 00:11:18.664 --> 00:11:27.184 So given that, and given the fact that I think you've said in other interviews that y- you, you tend to be more of an introvert than an extrovert- Yeah... 65 00:11:27.244 --> 00:11:32.504 is how do you apply some of the kind of impromptu recording stuff that you did for this album 66 00:11:33.544 --> 00:11:42.344 into a sea of 1,000 people, you know, on stage, where you might be, um, you might be tempted to try to be more of an entertainer and- Yeah... maybe kinda get outside of your shell? 67 00:11:42.404 --> 00:11:49.484 How do you work through that, and how do you prepare for something like that? Well, we've definitely beefed up, like, the arrangements of some stuff. 68 00:11:49.564 --> 00:11:57.744 I have a five-piece band with me, so we're able to fill out the stage pretty nicely. And you know, a lot of these festivals I'm playing for 30 minutes. 69 00:11:57.924 --> 00:12:06.684 I've kinda been selective about my set list, like maybe leave some of... most of the ballady, slow, more like songwriter-focused songs 70 00:12:07.784 --> 00:12:19.584 off the set list and, like, do the ones that are more upbeat and, like, easy to dance around to, um, higher tempo. Yeah. But it's been a lot of fun. I, like, haven't had this much fun playing shows. 71 00:12:19.764 --> 00:12:30.184 I've- Only been touring with an acoustic guitar, and there's only so much energy and- Yeah... fun you can have playing that. And it-- those are so much fun to play shows like that. 72 00:12:30.224 --> 00:12:40.664 That's where I probably feel the most confident, but it's been nice to

switch it up with a band. You're accomplishing a lot, especially here in 2026 with the album and th-these tours and stuff. 73 00:12:41.004 --> 00:12:54.044 Where do you think you are as an artist today as a 22-year-old, and, and where, where do you wanna be? I feel like it took me so long to just even get my foot in the door, which is kinda where I feel like I'm at. 74 00:12:54.104 --> 00:13:03.384 I'm playing a lot of these fest-festivals, but my name is in the tiny print at the bottom, and there's a big gap between that and the, whoever's playing the headlining set that day. 75 00:13:04.504 --> 00:13:15.384 But honestly, I'd be so content if this was how I was forever, if I could just play my songs and that's how I make my living and get to meet people that support what I do. 76 00:13:16.244 --> 00:13:25.784 Obviously, I can't wait to, like, be having big crowds of my own, and I got a little taste of that at the release show, just, like, having people sing the songs back to me is such a special feeling. 77 00:13:26.584 --> 00:13:38.184 I would love to do more headline stuff, play some bigger venues of headline shows. I'd love to be able to get to play in some theaters. The Ryman Auditorium's at the top of my bucket list, uh, but we'll get there. 78 00:13:40.324 --> 00:13:45.744 All right, so you brought it up. I have to ask, did you feel any kind of burden growing up with, with the name Ryman? 79 00:13:46.084 --> 00:13:53.864 You mentioned that you're just getting your foot in the door, but I, I kinda think that, like, since you're so young, y-you-- sort of a path was l-laid in front of you. 80 00:13:53.904 --> 00:14:04.084 Was that, was that a burden, or did you always look at it as an opportunity? I feel like I kinda looked at it as an opportunity. I mean, I've been surrounded by music my entire life. 81 00:14:04.144 --> 00:14:12.824 I think my parents, from the hospital, drove me by the Ryman Auditorium, uh, just in the car, just, just because the day that I was born, and then 82 00:14:13.724 --> 00:14:25.164 all my home, like, VHS footage is me carrying around a guitar or banging on a piano or playing some drums or singing songs. To be honest, it's the only thing I've ever felt half good at. I don't know. 83 00:14:25.224 --> 00:14:39.244 I'm just like, I'm so passionate about it, and every time that I'm playing one of these festivals or these shows, I think back to the 12-year-old kid learning how to play piano and guitar on YouTube in the bedroom, 84 00:14:40.224 --> 00:14:50.264 and the fact that that's, like, what I get to do as a job or just playing shows with artists that I have grown up listening to. Sure. I just played this, this festival over in the UK. 85 00:14:50.344 --> 00:15:04.124 It was my first one, and, uh, Kings of Leon and, like, Counting Crows and, like, Black Crows were some of the artists on the, the bill, and Black Crows was the first show that my dad took me to that I was coherent enough to remember. 86 00:15:05.124 --> 00:15:19.164 So it's just a lot of cool full circle moments. So you, you are 22. Can you talk a little bit about, you've grown up with social media, I'm sure, and algorithms and the feeds and everything. 87 00:15:19.904 --> 00:15:29.764 Uh, in your songwriting process, which you've talked about, I think, in other interviews, w-which is voice memos- Mm-hmm... you've a lot of just free-flowing, sometimes gibberish- Yeah... 88 00:15:29.884 --> 00:15:39.904 things, you know, over, you know, 10 minutes, 20 minutes, 45 minutes, and then, you know, from that, you're able to pull nuggets out, right? Yeah. I guess, how do you think about that process 89 00:15:40.924 --> 00:15:52.164 but then also knowing that there's an algorithm out there that you have to sort of, like, hit, hit square in the target to get the 15 seconds where it matters? Do you think about that at all? 90 00:15:53.004 --> 00:16:06.144 Uh, I feel like over the last year, it's been harder for me to write songs in the sense of I've been getting in my own way of thinking about how a song's gonna be perceived as I'm actively writing it, rather than it just, like, 91 00:16:07.124 --> 00:16:19.604 feeling good or just trusting my intuition, and that's why it's been so helpful to co-write with people. I mean, so often, a lot of times I just need somebody to validate that, yes, like, that's not a stupid idea. 92 00:16:19.644 --> 00:16:29.064 Like, that's not too weird. That's cool. I like that. And it's like, "Okay, yeah, yeah, I do like it," you know? That's, like, literally what Undo on the record, that's what it's about. 93 00:16:29.104 --> 00:16:37.844 It's writing songs that I don't pick apart. I've been trying to get back to that, and I feel like I have been better over the last couple weeks being, like, confident. 94 00:16:37.883 --> 00:16:50.524 The only reason why people are paying attention to this is because, like, they liked the stuff that I was doing before I was thinking about how it was gonna be perceived. So just, like, getting back to the magic of, 95 00:16:51.444 --> 00:16:55.804 I don't know, like, caring less while also caring more, if that makes sense. 96 00:16:55.924 --> 00:17:08.184 I wanna be a perfectionist, but also, like, getting in my own way about thinking about if people are gonna like it on TikTok or Instagram, and it's like I have to remember that, like, that's not why I got into music or I didn't get into music to be famous. 97 00:17:08.264 --> 00:17:19.424 I got into music because I like writing songs. It's a great point. I think, you know, a-again, not to speak for your generation, but I would imagine that it's a natural temptation to sort of wanna 98 00:17:20.324 --> 00:17:27.204 find the hook, find the thing that will grab the attention. That's been the thing that's opened so many doors for me. But also- Yeah... it's like 99 00:17:28.364 --> 00:17:40.104 I didn't go out, like, seeking that when I made that song or posted that video. It wasn't like, "Oh,

I'm posting this video, and it's got this formula that's gonna make it pop off," or whatever. 100 00:17:40.524 --> 00:17:50.504 It's-- I even feel this way. I saw someone talking about this on TikTok, but it's like you can tell when an artist is giving you something or when they're trying to get something. Mm-hmm. And I even feel that way, like, 101 00:17:51.464 --> 00:18:01.464 in the results aspect of whenever I'm posting something because I'm wanting to, and I'm excited to share it, or I'm posting something because somebody sent me a text and told me that I had to post this thing today, you know? 102 00:18:04.524 --> 00:18:13.764 Okay. Uh, all right. So you mentioned the word magic, and in the-- my next question is sort of like with that in mind and then in the context of co-writes. 103 00:18:15.424 --> 00:18:28.236 I-- one of the guys that I've interviewed, uh, about a year ago, he's probably, you know, whatever Four decades, five decades older than you. Uh, happened to be, like, the BMI Songwriter of the Year back in the 1980s. 104 00:18:28.396 --> 00:18:40.336 He's credited with 14 number one hit singles. There you go. Um, just a ton of credit. His name's Roger Murrah, and he's, he's there in Nashville. So anyways, so I'm talking to him about the process of songwriting, right? 105 00:18:40.656 --> 00:18:46.696 And it's incredible to hear someone like that just draw from all the experience. He kept coming back to the fact that 106 00:18:47.796 --> 00:18:55.276 there's, one, there's a lot of g- obviously good artists and good songs in Nashville, but everybody's looking for that exceptional song. Yeah. 107 00:18:55.316 --> 00:19:06.856 And then he said, "You can't put your finger on it, but when you're in a room writing with someone and you just know that it's gonna be special," he, he called it magic. 108 00:19:06.916 --> 00:19:19.516 Have you experienced anything like that in, in the co-writes that you've done so far where just out of, it seems like out of thin air, something just landed and you're just like, "Okay, this is beyond me"? Yeah. 109 00:19:19.576 --> 00:19:32.936 I mean, I felt that way kind of, like, my first cut I wrote with Lacey Kate Booth and Ben West, uh, here in Nashville January of last year, and I had never met either of them. 110 00:19:33.556 --> 00:19:44.056 And the night before, I had started this idea that I low-key thought was, like, so dumb, and I was like, "I just don't know. This feels a little edgy for me, like, a little dark." 111 00:19:44.776 --> 00:19:53.096 And then I show up to the room, and we're kinda just, like, playing around on some chords, and they're like, [notification sound] "Yeah, the one thing Lacey's album is missing is just, like, something with some edge." 112 00:19:53.636 --> 00:20:05.856 And I was like, "Well, I started this thing." And as soon as I heard her sing the melody and, like, words, just the little, tiny little part that I had started, I was like, "Oh my gosh, this could be something." 113 00:20:05.996 --> 00:20:19.376 I mean, her, her voice is just insane. And then once we, like, finished out the song and, like, I heard her start teasing it months later, I had never heard a demo or anything, and people were loving it online. 114 00:20:19.636 --> 00:20:27.636 And I was like, "Wow, this is my first taste of writing a song and then just not having to touch it and then hearing it out in the world." There definitely was some magic. 115 00:20:27.716 --> 00:20:41.056 I remember leaving that night being like, "Wow," I'm, like, patting myself on the back. I really held my own in a room with people that are super talented and have been doing this for a long time. Well, good for you. 116 00:20:41.156 --> 00:20:46.956 That's awesome. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for sharing that. I'm sure there's gonna be many more of that through the years. All right, last question I ask this of everybody. So, 117 00:20:47.936 --> 00:20:55.236 uh, you know, I turned 50, if you can believe it. I know I look like I'm 30, uh, but- Happy birthday. [laughs] So I started this podcast, 118 00:20:56.336 --> 00:21:04.316 and a lot of things happened when I turned 50, like, a lot of really good things, but the podcast was really started by sort of my interest in under... 119 00:21:05.316 --> 00:21:09.816 or wanting to show more value to this notion of curiosity, 'cause I don't- Yeah... 120 00:21:09.916 --> 00:21:21.496 sing, I don't play an instrument, but I've met a, a lot of folks like you who are baring their souls in front of five people at the tavern down the street, right? What makes these folks tick, you know? 121 00:21:22.236 --> 00:21:26.176 Uh, so anyway, so I started the podcast to talk to independent musicians and, and other folks. 122 00:21:26.256 --> 00:21:38.456 I ask this of everybody, but as a 22-year-old who's basically just starting out with so many good things ahead, what are you most curious about today? What am I most curious about? I feel like... 123 00:21:38.456 --> 00:21:54.896 [sighs] I'm, I feel like I've been doing a lot of, like, looking within. I'm just curious as to how I can be, like, the best version of myself. I feel like this has been a lot of 124 00:21:55.856 --> 00:22:02.016 overwhelming and stressful and a lot of high internalized pressure, but I'm curious to, like, 125 00:22:03.776 --> 00:22:11.716 see, like, how well I can be doing without any of that going on and not seeking validation from how successful I am as a musician. 126 00:22:11.796 --> 00:22:20.776 But I'm just happy with the music that I'm making and happy with how I'm doing and just, like, life in general. All right. That's good perspective. 127 00:22:21.076 --> 00:22:25.396 Was there a wake-up call, or was there something that kinda triggered that realization and intent? 128 00:22:26.136 --> 00:22:36.556 No, I just think, like, over the last couple months, it's being on the road for a month and a half at a time and human connection and, like, meeting fans and playing shows and having people cheer for you. 129 00:22:36.596 --> 00:22:46.596 It's, like, that come down when coming home from that is... You come home, and you're like, "I'm just a normal, [notification sound] normal dude." And then, like, social media, it's like comparison's the thief of joy. 130 00:22:46.836 --> 00:22:59.356 But you see people, your friends doing well, and it's like, "Dang, I'm not doing as good. I need to be doing more because they're doing more." Hmm. Uh, so I've just been trying to ground and just be okay 131 00:23:00.416 --> 00:23:13.956 of just being myself and without anybody's perception of me and how I'm being viewed or how successful I am. Well, good. I, you know, speaking on experience, that's a great mindset to have, especially, uh, at your age. 132 00:23:14.016 --> 00:23:22.196 So congrats on that and thanks for sharing. Congrats on the album. Thank you. Good luck with all the shows. Hope to see you here in Atlanta at some point. 133 00:23:22.236 --> 00:23:26.656 But, uh, Ryman, great to meet you, and thanks so much for your time. I appreciate that. Yeah, nice to meet you.