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Blockchain companies are coming out to put your crypto into gift cards and people are thinking this is a tax break, but how do gift cards really work? And, what is the evolution of the gift card? Branded Currency?
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00:01:49yo yo welcome to crypto 101 the average Consumer's Guide to cryptocurrency this is Matthew Aaron and today were talking to Holly and she is the co-founder of flourish and we're going to talk about Brandon current I don't know what it was but you know what I keep hearing is that it's going to be on the blockchain so we're going to talk about that in this episode but before we talked to Holly please go to crypto 101 podcast.com best crypto 101 podcast.com put on top of the page you'll see a contacts button sent us an email if you like to join our Facebook group our Facebook group is there to help you get into cryptocurrency talk about cryptocurrency or does he know nerd out about cryptocurrency subscribe to listen to iTunes music comment because the rating it helps us a lot thank you very much for doing it if you have also think about becoming a patreon the patrons contribute a lot to crypto 101 and we thank you very much for that in family don't forget to click on the Block button and read some of the gray plugs that are coming out from our blog writers oh I almost forgot Aaron Paul he does Ico 101
00:02:49check them out on her sister podcast Ico 101 without further Ado enjoy this conversation with Holly and we'll see you after the show
00:03:06Holly kuwari co-founder of flourish thank you for coming on crypto 101 we're going to talk a little bit about yourself and then we want to go into something called branded currency now I don't know anything about this I went in Google did some research and only thing I keep coming up with is its new gift cards and is that really what it is I'm confused and I'm really happy you're here to explain to me the listeners about the stranded currency phenomenon that people are saying going to be with blockchain and awards and it's all in one place and one wallet and okay I'm going to lay down the rabbit hole too far too fast but is that okay with you about this all day long I love getting ready cool so Holly just a little bit about yourself I'm one of those people that every time I tell someone what I do they look you do what now because I came actually from like us theater and poli-sci
00:04:02my background of all places so I did sketch comedy and I worked a little cold campaigns and I went back and got my masters in marketing Communications and ended up just got to working at like marketing agencies in first fell into this world gift cards because I was told I would be marketing that JC Penney and Staples gift card portfolios send do you guys use this kind of technology and do you look at points programs like this so I can only serve a sort of fell into this but I really feel like I did because just having to understand the gift card product got me really into payments and I haven't left since like I loved it so much I just love that it's changing and how it affects people's lives that's kind of how I ended up in the I don't ever try to tell your theater Professor that you're in brand of currency cuz they just look at you like you're crazy like what are you doing with your life I mean my parents are happy
00:05:02what about you where are you right now what time is it to tell some more about you it is 8:11 p.m. and yeah I have a dog named Sally she is the best she's like the Restless dog on earth I love her to Pieces yet know if I could live off of one thing it would be popcorn probably side background in Indy went into marketing what in marketing and how did it get into gift card I know you said JCPenney catalog how to Volunteer Landing how did you move into it where you are today and she sponsorships for a major league soccer team and decided that I wanted to try something just very different went to a marketing agency and I was told JC Penney and Staples would be my clients there and it'll be interesting I was focused on their gift card portfolios and I just started getting a lot of questions about the technology itself so I had to learn really fast all of the darkened I don't know how I stumbled upon
00:06:02I feel like I got really lucky cuz I I loved it from the very beginning I just thought it was so fascinating the way that gift cards are incredibly complicated and you would never think that they were alright we'll don't know where they're how is hard complicated let's get ready because there are a million acronyms it's insane. The closed-loop environment meaning the way that process is it can only be spent at one location is for lack of a better term you I can't use a Staples gift card at a Home Depot so it's closed loop specific to Staples so there's different processors for that there's a lot of different laws that go into that each state in the u.s. gets to have their own law was so different processes and what are the different laws in different states just examples cuz you can say that there's different states but some of that is not in the gift cards and doesn't know what that means
00:06:54are seen as private property let's say you forget about a gift card in it sitting in your drawer for 10 years technically it can never expire but a state could say well if it doesn't come in within five years the retailer could take that liability cuz gift cards are liability until they're redeemed you can take that liability off your books we can assume that gift card not coming in but if I did walk in they still have to honor it so they must have to reactivate tell the government that hey we know who this property belongs to we have to make this active again. I know that you have a gift card and I know roughly where you live and I know that you didn't come in within 5 years I have to basically is sheet that money to the government any I have to say hey here's 50 bucks Matthews going to come and clean it one day you can clean it as Lost Property so a lot of retailers don't actually like to know that you are holding that gift card which then creates all sorts of inefficiency is because there's no way to say Hey you have money that you should be spending with us come on in and use it Starbucks doesn't care because
00:07:54people use it frequently and they hardly have to deal with these a shipment laws in the grand scheme of things but a lot of merchants are just like know that accounting is just way too much let's move along if you don't come and you don't clean that's the way it is okay that's interesting super interesting so what would other like examples of of laws and like processes for the gift cards gift cards if anyone tries to tell you that your gift card expires in the US it does not so a gift card as a liability on when your in bankruptcy. It's not an asset so there's no need to recover it that's the other thing when you're a consumer who sees that you like a princess with Toys R Us this is the first time I'd seen that many stories about people saying redeem your gift cards now I think enough people have been burned recently by retailers going out of business that they Now understand what's and you got to
00:08:54and it before you lose it cuz it's just lost money system like you said and I think I visit a relevant question for the times today what kind of dad are they collecting I assume that they want to know by spending habits do they know who has the gift card, they besides just you know getting revenue or giving somebody some money to use at a certain space what benefits do they have do not collect information on who's holding the gift card because it was traditionally supposed to be a gift so I know I could have been the purchaser but that doesn't matter cuz I probably gifted it to somebody so not the person holding the gift card so you know this is she had laws I discussed kind of encourage them not to collect data on who's holding it but on top of that when it is something that doesn't necessarily stay in the hands of the purchaser that information gets lost cuz it could be pacified different people and there's no real process for tracking where the property went yeah they don't collect a lot unless you tie it to a loyalty program
00:09:54stored in an app or wallet then they might attach some personally identifiable information that you provide when logging into that after that wallet or that will see program loyalty program could you mention this before a point system and loyalty programs what are those how do you get tied to a like an apple I guess we're talking about lol and you have your Starbucks card in there and all that other shit I didn't so how does that work how's that you go system work kind of depends on which one you're using I mean some Merchants have their own wallets that live within their app but if you're doing something like a Samsung wallet you know if you store something in there technically if it has the barcode it can be scanned and that's how you destroy that in there but if you're doing something like a Starbucks app that's a whole lot of experience and you sign in they tile your stars to it you tie your name to it so that you can keep learning and reloading your gift card through your PayPal account is a lot of benefits to tying a gift card to a loyalty program more points program generally actually saves the merchant money princess with Starbucks
00:10:54I was going to come in and pay with my credit card The Interchange fees that they would pay every time I swiped my credit card in store transactions are done on a gift card 25 yeah it's insane because of their Mobile Wallet if I am going through PayPal once to get 25 bucks loaded I mean let's just say I spent three to $5 each time you're saving The Interchange on at least four or five transaction right to me massively outweigh the potential for someone to say I'm going to is sheet money to the government I think that's when it gets really cool in my mind we have the gift cards we know how they work in a little bit about some quirky laws will know a little bit about loyalty programs we know that you know it saves a ton of money for Starbucks in 42% is a big number I never use the gift card before and that's crazy so I guess I'm behind the times and it tells you when you're getting old is when people start using shit you don't know about that
00:11:54so now we have guitars and we all know what your prayers are what is the shift to Brandy currency in what does Brandy currency mean what is a tender that is branded for a specific use the traditional products that kind of make that up our gift cards loyalty points promotional points are value and then some of those stored-value programs so anything that can hold the value has a brand attached to it and can be spent any closed-loop environment that kind of encourage a specific use and can be used only in specific weight is or what we focus on currency just means you know a way to buy something just exchange currency currency and what is the marketing ship what is the idea behind the markers that says instead of gift cards when called Brandy currency
00:12:54gift card program that doesn't hide with loyalty program and then their loyalty team has no idea that you know a coupon or promotional offer is going out from the other team in another department so you see a lot of that retailers it's all very silent Unity lot of departments working with each other to create a really cohesive customer experience so to us what he has to do is create a cohesive customer experience I don't care that coupons reside in the marketing team and a gift card resides with the finance team like as a consumer I don't care about that what I want is to be able to walk in and say well I have this coupon and I have this gift card the better works together like that you run into that you can't do those two things together and it but no one can tell you why it's like if you can combine a loyalty program and a gift card and anyone who's sending out offers. The power of that actually being able to daisy chain that information together is really cool and right now most retailers
00:13:54do that which is surprising to a lot of people but it's and why can't they do it because so Francis your loyalty program might be run through a third-party so your gift card as went through another processor your coupons or someone else in any of your affiliate marketing which is run through someone else and none of the data speak to each other it doesn't correlate so to reconcile all of that information actually takes a really long time and it's a very manual process so if you would actually start to rethink the way that they're building these programs other than doing it piece by piece at a point where they know what they're looking at now they've they've had these programs in place so why not create something where it's all very cohesive and works together actually I mean it creates a much better customer experience I think something like this has the power to actually change things for them so is this where the blockchain comes that were there so how does the blockchain work on this I assume that it's going to blend all of that together so that the two questions I have they come out how does blockchain work with this to loyalty programs a gift cards and I'm still going
00:14:54guitars is I hate this brand of currency stuff I'm not I'm still I'm still not sold on the name keep working on it I have two questions that come out of that first is black chain is going to be the one that links to your loyalty programs your all your data and your gift cards in in your coupons all together on one side ledger so you can analyze get the data and it works together and then the next part is going to be are you going to be able to use gift cards outside of this closed ecosystem now there's other companies coming out that are trying to do this if we just had one on Ico 101 the other day where they're trying to make sure that you can get all of your gift cards as a currency and then use them wherever you need to wherever you go as a way to say get your crypto out of the crib do it again system create stability and also not cash it back out into Fiat or you're getting it so what are these different steps along the evolution of branded currency
00:15:54hilarities Facebook ads like a closed-loop environment like that right like you have technically an anonymous currency we're all used to dealing with that anonymity so it's not uncomfortable for somebody who's in this space does a okay let's look at another anonymous currency and see what we can do with it I think that's a real Advantage here because you're not having to change that mindset I think then like you said you can package it all together and understand that data a heck of a lot better than we can now the reconciliation process now as it's cumbersome so to do that is I think the ultimate goal for me and I think where you took it to or a gift card becomes its own sort of tender that it doesn't matter I mean you can kind of swap between different brands of their own currency in the end I would argue they already too but it'll be reviewed and thought of more as their own currency kind of in the way that we look at Fiat and exchange rate so he comes like a s stock exchange
00:16:54ecosystem I kind of still am confused of what the company is going to get out of this and what the client is going to get out of this having a gift card is great cuz you have you ever Starbucks card you go in there and it's convenient for you but if you're going to move to a brandy currency or gift card economy that's digital on the blockchain how do you make it easy for people cuz I do not want open on my Apple wallet and have a shit ton of cards and they're charged separately is just cumbersome to keep track and everybody has their own loyalty programs anesthesia pain in the ass that I want to deal with is there a future where this gets more streamlined where it gets basically easier for the for the oh yeah absolutely I think there are going to be ways for people to but we'll just let me back up a little bit because once again we're noticing a lot anymore is that people are actually buying gift cards to use for themselves to help with budgeting you have a you know the younger end of Millennials are buried in debt shine away from credit cards actually doing a lot of budgeting with gift cards it's really kind of surprising because it's on a gift
00:17:54and that's where this brand of currency I think really sprung from you seal a gift card exchanges in Marketplace is right now it's a good game for a lot of people seeing how they can save their doing this already with plastic they're doing the song with the last barcodes so you're right the idea is to streamline this whole process for them to make shopping kind of a game and to make it kind of fun is I think the first step is more or less just making these habits that we've all developed a little more streamlined so how exactly that happens I think it's still down the road I think we all know blotching isn't great for microtransactions with a lot of gift card transactions are small you don't need to be fast if you want someone to be really happy with them so I don't think we're there just yet but I think the blushing has the potential to make this ecosystem work for people and create a different processing system for all of these different transactions what are you trying to do in that event to push Brandy currency
00:18:54gift cards the ecosystem and it would have you because we touched on blockchain we are not sure the future but what are you doing to steer the future of this ecosystem North America and then payment technology companies from around the world come together we say okay what can we do to make the retail experience better this year we brought in people who are looking at everything from customer experience to the latest and greatest in processing we look at every little piece in the value chain is a how can we improve it all of this truly boils down to customer experience if people don't want to use it we're just spinning our Wheels what we've done is we brought in people who were you know we we had I didn't know you had marked by and check on your show so Mark bonshak came in and he took a lot of people who've never even looked at you know what blockchain could do for them and broke it down and said here's how I think this could really steer things for retailers we had Bridget Brennan talk about all her research she's doing in terms of customer experience and loyalty
00:19:54so what we're trying to do is attach behaviors two payments and say hey if it doesn't have to be just a transaction or a transaction doesn't have to actually just be payment it can be an interaction it can be the first touch point they have when they receive a card so really it's just looking everything during holistically and trying to get people to say hey maybe we should reach across the aisle and talk to the other department and make this better I'm still having a problem I'll be honest I hate gift cards I hate I hate cards I hate credit card I hate anything that's in my wallet that makes a bulky I hate things that are on my phone that everything seems little scattered in and it's just messy and I'm still not convinced that because you but you just said you're talkin to these different companies so you know streamline optimize their gift card gift in your behavior and make it good for the end-user but they're still in their own little companies would have you ended up missing have a an app open my wallet with a hundred some different gift cards who's talking about you know Bridging the Gap who's talking about me just walking in with the universal gift card and going to basic
00:20:54credit card info why do we need this I'm so confused
00:20:59you're in the minority when
00:21:04audien that's out there saying like listen I don't trust this crypto business like this is insane I don't know what you're doing you know I got me my mom called me and was like I hope you're not invest invested in Bitcoin is they okay let's take products that are familiar to people and get them to adopt it without even thinking about you know what we have to do is make it easy for the general public to adopt these Technologies they can become more mainstream and I think gift cards very easy way to do it especially because it is a closed environment you can try different things without it affecting like a massive ecosystem opportunities in the space on the blockchain without having to change behaviors too much any company saying that they're going to take Bitcoin or etherium or Litecoin as payment for these of cards
00:22:04first date acquired a company called gift hasn't even happened I don't know what I'm going to do with this and now that the conversation is more switching to how do we use distributed Ledger for our own benefit how do we do it to make a more secure processing system together and not spend tons of money trying to reconcile every transaction that walks in our door for a merchant there a real efficiencies at this affords there's a lot of streamlining there's a lot of data mining they Allstate on an incredible amount of data but half the time she's really hard to make it I'll speak to each other and maybe I'll make sense because it's sitting in 10 different system that's the big opportunity here is to create those efficiencies in consumers and I think black chain or even I would argue that the tangle offers that opportunity for merchants is this just another lab get more efficient of getting data and knowing how to use it and then
00:23:04I can sell it be in Starbucks Revenue 20% of a going to be coming from our data consumer behavior is the thing is is that a payment behavior is such a strong indicator and when one of the major tender types that you're accepting is anonymous but there's this opportunity to actually learn more about that consumer I mean that's huge Miss in my book and so emergence of always been studying consumer behaviors and they don't want to share someone else walking in the door you know so they're not going to sell it to someone else I think they would rather just be able to bring these things in the house and not have to have a million agencies doing these things for them and so you know it's kind of yeah but they already have it they just don't have they just aren't using it in the most optimized way right now Walmart and you buy your gift card from the line there iTunes or you know Home Depot does Home Depot have gift cards
00:24:04yo I really got a hammer
00:24:09send gift card program when the biggest things on the boxing right now is about your data it's like is this way we're talking about social media's are coming out on the blockchain there are companies that are there as a barrier to protect your data from Facebook and Google and stuff like that and it seems as though if you were in Walmart and you bought your gift card it is an atom's you can give it to somebody 25 bucks and they go to Walmart I was only by a hammer nobody knows where the hair goes in your distraction but now that you're putting into your dad at your you're putting into your phone you're putting into your PayPal you put into your credit cards me thinking all this stuff together and now it's on the blockchain that we going to just go down the rabbit hole with our data is Facebook is Google is in Voorhees Center going but now it's all these other companies you know but they're doing it differently and they trick doesn't do it again you know I'm saying a lot of things about this I try to approach cautiously I think a lot of money laundering happens through loyalty Point programs and gift cards I mean
00:25:09there's a lot of fraud that happens there and so we wake up let's go back to the way to exchange yeah people launder money that way some of my favorite people are the guys who like dig deep into gift card fraud because they are true sleuths lose all of their points because someone will take over their account is like heartbreaking cuz he's supposed to be found money is supposed to be fun they do things are supposed to be the fun way to interact with the brand when I earn points like I love my airline miles when I can get a free flight home and go and so I might be more nerdy about that than others but it's fun yet I think there is a slippery slope when it comes to data and how it's used but I also think that Merchants already have this I would like to see them take better care of it I mean think about all the breaches you seen lately you know that's because efficiencies in the system I would rather
00:26:09in my opinion in and using something more secure at like the blockchain if they're going to handle it when there's so many points of exposure for a merchant cuz it's you know it's not just online but these things happened at the point of sale system swiping your credit card because you know someone opened an email somewhere and then it infiltrated the point of sale systems throughout the entire store Network so to me this situation is where I would say I would rather things be more secure and that's what I see the real benefit being especially for Consumer just the security piece from a business point of view how much return on your investment do you get from these loyalty programs in gift cards isn't it mean it's a huge investment to say okay we're going to do a gift card we're going to Great the systems were going to talk to people like you were going to make little apron so you can put your gift cards in to put in the front of the store that does Eugene best man in to get all of the stores in or what have you and what does it do for the brand was just do for their bottom line
00:27:19marketing to go
00:27:20never looks at you like you're nuts so I'm used to this reaction
00:27:25I mean really it's huge and it's growing like when you look at the predictions I mean we're nowhere near peeking in in this industry especially as more people are using them for self-use I mean a lot of that is like your everyday purchase is like your Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts things like that that are small transactions but add up and the reason it works so well is because they tied it to loyalty programs were going to keep seeing things like this grow as more people start to tie all of their program together gift card is being adopted more and more whether you want to believe it or not it's happening well I'm actually looking for my Apple Wallet app cuz I don't know where it is and I'm going to do my Starbucks gift card at I add to your Starbucks app. Download the app if you wanted to be on my phone I'm looking at it now pulling out my phone of course have my my Samsung wallet and my Samsung pay within otherwise it's Starbucks and I have Dunkin on here that I pay with and then if you want to count live
00:28:25Uber because technically they store value for me and I was in China for for 13 years have you ever been to China West anywhere else I shine on everybody's trying to do what China's doing yet they're doing it for like this app called that is connected to your bank account through this app you can do everything your Uber your payments your you can buy Evans on Amazon or Alibaba all through this one app I don't have to recharge anything I can charge my phone pay my bills order plane tickets train tickets everything I want to do through this app if I was a small business just took podcaster all I need to do is put my QR code people scanning paper my services this is all through 1/2 in so when I hear of these different company saying okay now I need to download my app into going to this wallet and stuff like that it's like why don't you guys just do it the way that that China is doing it already
00:29:25expensive to do that too it's like not even 4 Merchant she's not worth it it's not worth the investment in need of connecting to an API and then trying to make it so that your Bitcoin in these other things are we doing away with the Legacy systems but it seems like they don't want to deal with that anymore that talks about it they don't want to do it go to the Bitcoin Litecoin route but they want a pain in the ass for me especially because the u.s. switch to like chip-and-pin Ashley cause a lot of systems to update the hardware is not as old and clunky and unconnected as it used to be so now things can happen with a simple software update through like point of sale which is really good because let me tell you the first thing I always hear is do they have to touch point of sale then they'll like people just say no if it has anything to do with that so the fact that this update as far as a lot of people too kind of seriously upgrade their Hardware on their software
00:30:24means there's a lot more opportunity but you also have to kind of take into account that you didn't have a society of people who don't trust pain with their phone so you have to kind of take those baby steps with them to stay here best Kira's that's very physical piece of plastic that you used to swiping or scanning and you don't have to know how it works but if we can figure out a way to make these very common tender types or just these physical totems kind of work for people then we can ease them into using the technology and kind of get us there but yeah it really it is super frustrating that someone who loves all these different opportunities for payments than especially any way to streamline something and it just seems so hard to adopt here in the US with you on that so I'm trying to figure out when are we going to some general questions about gift cards now I know that it has a
00:31:20never had someone do this conversation this long with me this is mine dirty little heart is very happy I know you want to go to your Netflix and chill tonight your behavior I know you don't mean it could be in those two things either a that I don't live in the states and I'm not part of the gift card world and they here in Taiwan time in Taiwan right now and they have the cards and they have gift cards and they just do it the old school way you know where you used to go to the coffee shop and get the stamps let me know if you bring the car back and it's like I want to do with that either but every try to give me a card for the coffee shop around this damn car I don't give a shit I'll pay for the coffee it's not worth a buck to take a bow on this card you are not my target audience my friend so funny cuz like I never thought about it till I was in it quite honestly I married to someone whose family is from Poland and gift cards are not a big thing for them they would prefer operating cash and it really is a cultural thing very different country to Country Inn state to state it's really different in the way that people behave
00:32:20really good conversation with someone about this the brands are loyal to are very different so you get really a custom to the way that those Brands function I was talking to someone who works with gas station and he was saying that the people on the west coast when he's looking at like people in California a lot of them are in Tech field they're happier to pay with their phone and use digital where I sometimes in the South you know a lot of the stores will be still the only one accept cash or other way that loyalty program ran for years they don't want to adjust to the big company that just bought this little brand out so you have to like figure out how do you allow people to have the same behaviors but now I adjust so it's really interesting to watch people in their how they feel about anything that's new or different my parents are very proud of the fact that my mom will not pay for anything online you know she wants to write a check
00:33:16oh my gosh is not a secure way to pay it I'll go to sleep that's fine she doesn't care no matter what I tell her is she totally gets like why I'm I'm always on her best and that's the thing you have to like bring people for comfortable with like an older School way of doing things in Chicago this new way of thinking and behavior changes is the hardest thing very fascinating to watch people's spending habits it's not just about form-factor it's like well this is the car I use everyday so this is the one I'm using you to get people to change their behavior is an interesting Cristo Litecoin Ripple Iota and Bitcoin how long you been into the cripple space did you buy Bitcoin at to a $20,000 or did you buy it at thousand bucks
00:34:16creeping up I was watching it for a long time I didn't understand it and I just don't know where to go to learn about it for a long time and now I'm lucky I'm in Chicago cuz it's like every week there is some sort of Krypton meet up I can go to this thing I started to learn that's when I got hooked up with the community here it's awesome that's one thing I love about this community to learn to share what they know everyone going to rise this together is that attitude around here to give somebody in general if they were just getting into the crypto space as the one I wanted position to be that first step into the cripple space what would you tell them that this is the other thing I like about crypto it's like every crypto kind of has its own story depends on one's back by and it depends on you know what do you want people to be able to do with it so find one that speaks to you invest in it and it's just the best way to learn cuz now you truly are invested right now you would skin in the game supposed to get in the game it's a very motivational that you just you learn because you better know it to happen to my money you know I think that
00:35:16the best thing someone can do is just real little bit and figure out what to BECU and invest in it and and watch it and learn from that invested in the kryptos that you invested in for a purely monetary value or two for those gains or is it something that behind those projects that you really like and it and understand it was just really cool with the theory and then I was going on in there I would say Iota is the first one where I felt like I was taking a bigger risk because I think the Internet of Things component with that is pretty cool I really think I'm trying to get through the white paper on the tangle but as I said I am not a bad person there's a lot of math in it so it's taking me a little bit of time thank God my sister's an engineer I call her
00:36:16explain Ripple ripple from their technology for years and years and so when they came up with their own coin I was like alright sweetie I got invested cuz I've been fighting them for a really long time to Payson weather doing in terms of like exchange and kind of connecting all those different currencies turn right onto last last question I have for you is what three songs would you like on the crypto 101 Spotify playlist I was thinking about that good never one Beastie Boys you need some Intergalactic Beastie Boys So I'm going to go for Ain't No Rest For The Wicked. This is this was the hardest question to think about it's like what should my third song B I thought about being a real smart-ass here just being like well but changing the Kinect everyone so we need Rainbow Connection by the Muppets
00:37:16I think I might just go for that you can try Spotify those were doing when the hardest question everybody takes the only have a 3 questions to pick to represent himself via music and it really gives a thing of listeners of connection to the individual and see where the hot like kind of who they are wheeler personality
00:37:46my parents are going to here in like cramps really hard I five siblings so all six of their grown children where they can be all that's awesome right on Holly thank you very much for coming on crypto 101 and you have a great night
00:38:22listen to this episode of crypto 101 I hope you enjoyed it Holly thank you very much for coming on the show before we go apogee crypto.com s a p o g e crypto.com the best place to check your real time prices also when moved on Co the best place for your news and if you need a website June can help you out she did our website and that's at WP on the fly at c o w p on the Fly. Co thank you very much for listening and then the next episode we are here with Chris Merkel of Exodus and we're going to talk about design customer service and user experience for their wallet will see you in the next episode thank you very much this Matthew Aaron

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