Full Transcript for Episode 80 Carina McNally, Writer

Wexford, she 79 00:03:31,041 --> 00:03:32,875 asked me would I come up with a new story 80 00:03:32,875 --> 00:03:34,916 on Graine Wale for her imprint? 81 00:03:34,958 --> 00:03:37,375 And like, I was going through the years 82 00:03:37,375 --> 00:03:39,625 and I was wanting to do do on Graine Wale. 83 00:03:39,625 --> 00:03:43,541 And anyway, basically this character, Mithin, came to my mind. 84 00:03:43,791 --> 00:03:46,791 Here she is. And artist representation of her. 85 00:03:46,791 --> 00:03:47,416 I didn't draw it. 86 00:03:48,208 --> 00:03:50,416 And she just flew out and she just 87 00:03:50,416 --> 00:03:52,208 came and I just started writing about her. 88 00:03:52,250 --> 00:03:54,166 And she's about 100 years after Graine Wale. 89 00:03:54,166 --> 00:03:55,791 But there was enough written about Graine Wale. 90 00:03:55,791 --> 00:03:57,250 But I had a voice in my head saying, 91 00:03:57,416 --> 00:03:58,791 what about all the women in Irish 92 00:03:58,791 --> 00:04:00,875 history that nobody's written about? 93 00:04:02,125 --> 00:04:04,458 And, you know, all the men were killed in 94 00:04:04,458 --> 00:04:07,166 the wars in the 1500s and the martial law, 95 00:04:07,166 --> 00:04:09,500 the 1600s and all the terrible things. 96 00:04:09,500 --> 00:04:12,833 We lost, I suppose, nearly half our population in 100 years, really. 97 00:04:13,041 --> 00:04:15,833 So I was just thinking about the women that weren't written about. 98 00:04:15,875 --> 00:04:17,375 And this character has spoke to my mind. 99 00:04:17,583 --> 00:04:19,041 And now she's out in the wild. 100 00:04:20,375 --> 00:04:23,000 So you've written for Cyphers in a woman's way. 101 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,583 Like, how does your approach change when 102 00:04:25,625 --> 00:04:28,083 writing a short story versus a full novel? 103 00:04:28,791 --> 00:04:32,500 You know, I was writing short stories a good few years ago. 104 00:04:32,583 --> 00:04:34,916 I haven't actually written a short story in ages. 105 00:04:35,208 --> 00:04:37,375 I think short story is a kind of an art 106 00:04:37,375 --> 00:04:39,208 form that you have to be very clued into. 107 00:04:39,250 --> 00:04:40,666 When you're writing short stories, 108 00:04:40,875 --> 00:04:42,625 obviously, I'm sure I could go back and write one. 109 00:04:42,666 --> 00:04:44,000 But it would take me a while. 110 00:04:44,458 --> 00:04:45,750 It's very concise. 111 00:04:45,791 --> 00:04:48,375 In a way, I think when you're writing 112 00:04:48,375 --> 00:04:49,750 and you're concentrating on something, 113 00:04:49,750 --> 00:04:51,208 you're kind of sucked up in the moment. 114 00:04:51,416 --> 00:04:53,125 So in that way, it's different. 115 00:04:53,291 --> 00:04:54,708 Of course, the difference with the novel 116 00:04:54,750 --> 00:04:58,000 is like I've never really had an editor 117 00:04:58,041 --> 00:05:00,500 to help me with a novel or with a short story. 118 00:05:00,500 --> 00:05:01,458 It was there. 119 00:05:01,583 --> 00:05:03,291 The novel is very different. 120 00:05:03,458 --> 00:05:05,041 I mean, you can write all you want. 121 00:05:05,083 --> 00:05:06,333 You write the story down. 122 00:05:06,541 --> 00:05:09,291 But it's not a solo project. 123 00:05:09,666 --> 00:05:12,291 It's like I like I like when I had my 124 00:05:12,291 --> 00:05:13,958 story written, I was probably on the fifth 125 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,041 or sixth draft or seventh or eighth, even. 126 00:05:16,041 --> 00:05:17,541 And then I had to develop mental 127 00:05:17,541 --> 00:05:19,250 editor, read it for me and say, look, 128 00:05:19,458 --> 00:05:20,958 chapter 10 is not great. 129 00:05:21,458 --> 00:05:22,791 There's nothing there. 130 00:05:22,875 --> 00:05:24,125 They won't write anything for you. 131 00:05:24,416 --> 00:05:27,500 But so like, yeah, you need more input into a novel. 132 00:05:27,833 --> 00:05:28,916 There's a short story. 133 00:05:28,916 --> 00:05:31,791 I think you're better off just to have a style and do it on your own. 134 00:05:31,958 --> 00:05:32,875 Yeah, yeah. Perfect. 135 00:05:32,875 --> 00:05:36,208 OK, as an historian and a guide on the Beara Peninsula, 136 00:05:36,291 --> 00:05:39,166 you literally walk through history like every day. 137 00:05:39,416 --> 00:05:44,125 How does that connection to the landscape help you see the scenes in your book? 138 00:05:45,041 --> 00:05:46,375 I suppose one of my favourite 139 00:05:46,375 --> 00:05:49,666 historically walking tours I do is on Dersey Island. 140 00:05:50,250 --> 00:05:52,708 And no matter how many times I go 141 00:05:52,708 --> 00:05:54,208 there, the different people I bring there, 142 00:05:54,208 --> 00:05:57,750 it's really interesting because like everyone has their own interest 143 00:05:57,791 --> 00:06:01,166 or their own specific interest in different parts of Irish history. 144 00:06:01,333 --> 00:06:02,500 Because when you go to a place like 145 00:06:02,500 --> 00:06:05,208 Dersey and it's probably like many islands, 146 00:06:05,333 --> 00:06:07,041 you know, you have all the prehistory, 147 00:06:07,083 --> 00:06:09,541 the name places named for our pre-Christian 148 00:06:09,541 --> 00:06:11,791 gods, then you have all the Viking history. 149 00:06:11,833 --> 00:06:13,541 Viking is a Norse name. 150 00:06:13,833 --> 00:06:16,583 Then you have, we'll say, the Elizabethan Wars. 151 00:06:16,791 --> 00:06:18,916 You have the famine, the War of 152 00:06:18,916 --> 00:06:21,708 Independence, like early Christianity, the Skelligs. 153 00:06:21,916 --> 00:06:25,541 Like you have all these whole layers of history and you're actually 154 00:06:26,208 --> 00:06:28,333 it's you can understand the layers of 155 00:06:28,333 --> 00:06:30,125 history when you're basing it in one place 156 00:06:30,125 --> 00:06:31,208 and it becomes very real. 157 00:06:31,250 --> 00:06:35,000 So I feel that we're not detached from our history at all. 158 00:06:35,000 -->

00:06:36,291 I think we're very, very much a 159 00:06:36,291 --> 00:06:38,083 product of it, even in the language we speak 160 00:06:38,083 --> 00:06:39,666 in today, English, even the way we 161 00:06:39,666 --> 00:06:42,250 live our lives daily with our ancient 162 00:06:42,250 --> 00:06:43,791 belief systems, you don't realize how 163 00:06:43,791 --> 00:06:45,583 much everything pervades our life today. 164 00:06:45,750 --> 00:06:49,500 So I do feel we're walking through our ancestors 165 00:06:49,875 --> 00:06:51,500 it with the within their path. 166 00:06:51,541 --> 00:06:54,625 And I do feel if you want to become connected to it, you can. 167 00:06:54,916 --> 00:06:55,125 Very good. 168 00:06:55,666 --> 00:07:00,333 And what was the most surprising or unexpected thing you uncovered 169 00:07:00,375 --> 00:07:02,083 during your research for the novel? 170 00:07:02,708 --> 00:07:04,541 When I started researching the novel 171 00:07:04,541 --> 00:07:06,250 first, I didn't know I was researching it. 172 00:07:06,250 --> 00:07:07,583 I was researching Gráine Whale 173 00:07:09,250 --> 00:07:13,416 And I never really read or learned much about the 1500s in Ireland. 174 00:07:13,416 --> 00:07:16,666 I was actually shocked at the trauma that the people suffered. 175 00:07:16,916 --> 00:07:19,416 The amount of martial law, just the slaughter. 176 00:07:19,916 --> 00:07:22,416 The monasteries, the destruction of our culture. 177 00:07:22,708 --> 00:07:23,916 I found that very shocking. 178 00:07:23,958 --> 00:07:24,625 I didn't write. 179 00:07:24,750 --> 00:07:26,708 I wrote about the 1600s in the novel. 180 00:07:27,041 --> 00:07:28,958 But I think I was always keeping in 181 00:07:28,958 --> 00:07:31,416 mind this wasn't new for these people. 182 00:07:31,625 --> 00:07:34,291 There were generations of trauma already there. 183 00:07:34,333 --> 00:07:36,375 So I hope that the depth of that 184 00:07:36,375 --> 00:07:38,291 understanding is coming out in the book. 185 00:07:39,166 --> 00:07:42,583 I suppose the level of trauma people suffered in those times. 186 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:44,208 I actually didn't. 187 00:07:44,291 --> 00:07:46,208 I don't want it to be a depressing book 188 00:07:46,208 --> 00:07:47,916 because I think there's a lot of healing 189 00:07:47,916 --> 00:07:49,958 in the book myself, but it was about 190 00:07:50,375 --> 00:07:52,125 three days after the book was launched. 191 00:07:52,125 --> 00:07:53,166 It was in the shops and everything. 192 00:07:53,208 --> 00:07:55,708 And I was driving my car home to the supermarket at Castletownbere. 193 00:07:56,083 --> 00:07:58,375 And I actually felt tearful and I didn't know why. 194 00:07:58,416 --> 00:08:01,083 I was thinking about the character because she's out there now. 195 00:08:01,583 --> 00:08:04,208 I didn't actually realise how much trauma she had lived through. 196 00:08:04,583 --> 00:08:07,000 I think I was writing the trauma and living it with her. 197 00:08:07,125 --> 00:08:10,541 And now that she's out there, it's like it's like kind of a release. 198 00:08:10,666 --> 00:08:11,625 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 199 00:08:11,625 --> 00:08:13,875 But I didn't I didn't write it as that. 200 00:08:14,083 --> 00:08:17,291 It's not a depressing book because she finds healing. 201 00:08:17,958 --> 00:08:20,291 But yeah, I think just the trauma. 202 00:08:20,291 --> 00:08:22,416 I was feeling that trauma myself. 203 00:08:22,458 --> 00:08:25,541 I just can't understand how those people were still here. 204 00:08:25,750 --> 00:08:28,208 I know. It's quite unbelievable, isn't it? 205 00:08:28,416 --> 00:08:30,625 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 206 00:08:30,833 --> 00:08:31,000 Yeah. 207 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,083 And speaking about trauma, like in your 208 00:08:33,083 --> 00:08:35,250 role as a part-time social care worker, 209 00:08:35,291 --> 00:08:39,791 you're often meeting people at very pivotal or raw moments. 210 00:08:39,791 --> 00:08:43,125 How has that proximity to real life vulnerability 211 00:08:43,166 --> 00:08:45,916 shaped the way you build the soul of your characters? 212 00:08:46,333 --> 00:08:48,458 You know, I haven't actually thought about that. 213 00:08:49,250 --> 00:08:54,250 It's quite an interesting question because I definitely do feel like 214 00:08:54,250 --> 00:08:56,500 when you're writing for me, writing now, it's a character. 215 00:08:56,500 --> 00:08:58,250 I don't know. It's fictional. It's in the 1600s. 216 00:08:58,250 --> 00:09:00,125 It's a Cromwellian era. 217 00:09:00,458 --> 00:09:02,125 But, you know, you can't help but 218 00:09:02,125 --> 00:09:04,708 bring people's vulnerabilities, illness, 219 00:09:04,791 --> 00:09:07,458 maybe your own insecurities with the way 220 00:09:07,458 --> 00:09:09,250 you felt over the time into your writing. 221 00:09:09,250 --> 00:09:12,500 It's just normal. It's just human. I mean, yeah. 222 00:09:12,541 --> 00:09:15,458 I mean, I would have come across a lot of situations in my own life. 223 00:09:15,458 --> 00:09:18,375 And yeah, maybe it's a healing of those kind of traumas 224 00:09:18,375 --> 00:09:20,416 that comes into the writing or the 225 00:09:20,416 --> 00:09:23,500 reality of like life isn't always great, is it? 226 00:09:23,791 --> 00:09:26,666 And I have some like really wicked characters in there as well. 227 00:09:26,708 --> 00:09:28,666 You know, traitors and you can bring that. 228 00:09:28,750 --> 00:09:30,416 I mean, you know, people do let you 229 00:09:30,416 --> 00:09:32,541 down over life and people do throw twists 230 00:09:32,541 --> 00:09:34,750 and turns and people disappoint you. 231 00:09:34,750 --> 00:09:38,375 And, you know, like there's a line in the book saying, you know, 232 00:09:38,375 --> 00:09:40,416 you can't always expect people to 233 00:09:40,416 --> 00:09:42,125 turn out the way you wish they would. 234 00:09:42,166 --> 00:09:44,208 Or you hope them to thats not life. 235 00:09:44,416 -->

00:09:48,416 So I think all of my experiences of different people are in there. 236 00:09:48,416 --> 00:09:50,916 But I remember there was a nun 237 00:09:50,916 --> 00:09:52,958 teaching us in the school long ago on Thur Ida 238 00:09:53,500 --> 00:09:54,666 And she said something to us. 239 00:09:54,666 --> 00:09:58,416 We were only like 15 or 16, looking out the window like daydreaming. 240 00:09:58,708 --> 00:10:02,458 But I never forget what she said that often the most personal hurt 241 00:10:02,500 --> 00:10:05,083 that we feel as human individuals, it's 242 00:10:05,083 --> 00:10:07,458 actually one that we all can feel, you know. 243 00:10:08,708 --> 00:10:12,000 So, I mean, if you read this book, I'm sure you relate to somebody 244 00:10:12,041 --> 00:10:16,666 in there that's had a bad day or a good day. 245 00:10:16,875 --> 00:10:18,000 They're good days in there, too. 246 00:10:18,916 --> 00:10:21,416 And you recently worked with the Strive 247 00:10:21,416 --> 00:10:24,500 theatre on your first play, The Crows old Gold. 248 00:10:24,833 --> 00:10:28,875 How did it feel to see your words move from the page to a live performance? 249 00:10:29,750 --> 00:10:31,541 First of all, I couldn't understand 250 00:10:31,541 --> 00:10:34,000 how they learned it all off my heart in a couple of weeks. 251 00:10:34,166 --> 00:10:35,583 I was astounded. 252 00:10:35,833 --> 00:10:40,000 I said to Kieron, you know, in Strive, I said, 253 00:10:40,666 --> 00:10:41,875 they're not going to learn that often. 254 00:10:41,916 --> 00:10:43,000 Three, two, three weeks. 255 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,041 They will. They will. And they did. 256 00:10:45,125 --> 00:10:46,541 So that was the most amazing thing to me. 257 00:10:46,541 --> 00:10:47,625 But it was fantastic. 258 00:10:47,625 --> 00:10:51,041 I could not have been more happy with Damien Punch and Judith Ryan. 259 00:10:51,333 --> 00:10:52,625 They were just incredible. 260 00:10:52,958 --> 00:10:54,708 They came down and performed. 261 00:10:54,750 --> 00:10:58,375 They actually practiced up in the Lehane Community Center. 262 00:10:58,541 --> 00:11:01,083 And they could see Crowhead from there 263 00:11:01,250 --> 00:11:03,791 where the play was actually written about. 264 00:11:04,291 --> 00:11:05,958 So I think that's very special for them. 265 00:11:06,041 --> 00:11:07,666 And yeah, I was just delighted. 266 00:11:07,666 --> 00:11:09,875 It just couldn't. And I got great feedback for that. 267 00:11:10,250 --> 00:11:13,125 The play traveled and it's not traveling now, 268 00:11:13,125 --> 00:11:16,041 but the director of Strive is Kieron McArtan. 269 00:11:16,458 --> 00:11:19,666 And I think he's looking to get it going again. 270 00:11:19,958 --> 00:11:21,666 Maybe looking for a tour. 271 00:11:21,916 --> 00:11:24,666 It's kind of related to Cavan as well, because that legend 272 00:11:25,125 --> 00:11:27,416 exists here in the Beara peninsula and in Cavan. 273 00:11:29,208 --> 00:11:31,583 So you never know, but that was that was incredible. 274 00:11:31,583 --> 00:11:33,750 I was very humbled, really, to see my work. 275 00:11:34,083 --> 00:11:36,500 I can imagine, it must be like, wow. 276 00:11:36,583 --> 00:11:38,083 Oh, I was. 277 00:11:38,375 --> 00:11:40,208 I was. And like it's it's nothing 278 00:11:40,208 --> 00:11:42,750 without the without it being embodied. 279 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,250 You know, I felt like I did only half 280 00:11:45,250 --> 00:11:47,000 the work and then they took it from there. 281 00:11:47,083 --> 00:11:50,541 Well, yeah, they like your words and they they made it real. 282 00:11:50,750 --> 00:11:52,750 Just it's it's like it's like 283 00:11:53,250 --> 00:11:55,666 watching your book being adapted into a film. 284 00:11:55,666 --> 00:11:58,041 Like it must be a little fun to see. 285 00:11:58,041 --> 00:12:01,958 Yeah, it's to the people who portray your characters. 286 00:12:02,208 --> 00:12:05,000 I think that's so cool. Yeah, it was. 287 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:09,500 And I also felt, you know, that the amount of goodwill, you know, 288 00:12:09,500 --> 00:12:12,083 that people have, they hear that they go to see the play. 289 00:12:12,083 --> 00:12:13,666 And I felt that very uplifting as well. 290 00:12:13,958 --> 00:12:15,458 But people really love the arts. 291 00:12:16,333 --> 00:12:19,166 Joy. They think it's great that you did that. 292 00:12:19,416 --> 00:12:21,041 So happy that story is written down. 293 00:12:21,041 --> 00:12:23,708 And I felt that very I felt that lovely as well. 294 00:12:23,708 --> 00:12:26,166 There was a very good feedback and positivity. 295 00:12:26,166 --> 00:12:27,791 And people want the stories. 296 00:12:28,083 --> 00:12:29,708 They want to learn. 297 00:12:30,208 --> 00:12:32,958 They want to bring things back to life. 298 00:12:33,041 --> 00:12:34,000 And that's really nice. 299 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,375 I think in the world that we live 300 00:12:35,375 --> 00:12:36,791 in, especially where it's so digital 301 00:12:36,791 --> 00:12:37,958 and everything is on your phone, 302 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,166 like sometimes there's an extra quality 303 00:12:41,625 --> 00:12:44,166 like plays and books, and they just 304 00:12:44,166 --> 00:12:46,375 bring that extra little bit to the world. 305 00:12:46,458 --> 00:12:47,958 I think. Yeah, I do. Yeah. 306 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,333 I think I think the tactility of books is very important for us, 307 00:12:51,583 --> 00:12:54,208 considering we spend so much time on screens now as well. 308 00:12:54,583 --> 00:12:57,666 I'm mindful. Absolutely. Definitely. 309 00:12:58,375 --> 00:13:00,041 And what was the the steepest 310 00:13:00,041 --> 00:13:02,500 learning curve you face when transitioning 311 00:13:02,541 --> 00:13:06,000 like prose or journalism to writing dialogue for the stage? 312 00:13:07,750 --> 00:13:10,750 I I had written the bones of that play. 313 00:13:11,250 --> 00:13:13,625 I'd

written the story and I had done 314 00:13:13,625 --> 00:13:15,291 a lot of research into this character 315 00:13:15,291 --> 00:13:17,458 for the play is called The Crows Old Gold. 316 00:13:17,625 --> 00:13:21,333 So it's about the legend of gold buried at the end of Crowhead 317 00:13:21,458 --> 00:13:22,750 by this magical blacksmith. 318 00:13:23,041 --> 00:13:25,666 And then when I was researching into this guy long ago, of course, 319 00:13:25,666 --> 00:13:26,916 I realised that it goes back to the 320 00:13:27,375 --> 00:13:29,625 Tua De Donin god of blacksmithing. 321 00:13:29,625 --> 00:13:31,500 We've knew so there was lots of layers to uncover. 322 00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:34,500 But I had all this research done and I had story. 323 00:13:34,541 --> 00:13:37,333 But, you know, I was kind of going for a monologue 324 00:13:37,583 --> 00:13:39,375 and putting on different voices, but 325 00:13:39,375 --> 00:13:41,458 I was really lucky to receive funding 326 00:13:41,500 --> 00:13:46,708 from the creative islands, creative places, West Cork Islands. 327 00:13:46,833 --> 00:13:48,458 And because a lot of my story was based 328 00:13:48,458 --> 00:13:50,125 out in Crowhead and Dursley near there. 329 00:13:50,916 --> 00:13:55,875 And I I had funding to engage a dramaturge 330 00:13:55,875 --> 00:13:58,375 called Eideen O'Donaghue, who lives in Cork City. 331 00:13:58,500 --> 00:13:59,625 She's quite well known 332 00:14:00,583 --> 00:14:03,208 Cork theatre person and Eideen came 333 00:14:03,208 --> 00:14:05,625 down here and we workshopped the play. 334 00:14:06,791 --> 00:14:10,666 Basically means we read it out and we thrashed it out in our voices. 335 00:14:10,666 --> 00:14:12,291 And then like she'd say things like. 336 00:14:13,875 --> 00:14:16,208 Do you think that that he'd really sound like that? 337 00:14:16,291 --> 00:14:18,500 I would he sound like her and I'd say, no, he wouldn't. 338 00:14:18,541 --> 00:14:21,416 Well, you know, I'll change up the voice to get the dialogue is, 339 00:14:22,041 --> 00:14:24,791 you know, you have to create completely different characters. 340 00:14:24,791 --> 00:14:25,541 And when you're reading it 341 00:14:25,541 --> 00:14:28,208 yourself, it's not always that easy to hear. 342 00:14:28,333 --> 00:14:31,416 So like somebody like Eideen comes along, reads it out and says, 343 00:14:31,875 --> 00:14:33,833 to samee swap it up. 344 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,125 You know, so we had great fun workshopping the play. 345 00:14:36,291 --> 00:14:38,125 She came for four days. 346 00:14:38,250 --> 00:14:41,666 And then I rewrote and I think we workshopped again over Zoom 347 00:14:41,666 --> 00:14:43,125 maybe twice or three times. 348 00:14:43,333 --> 00:14:44,625 So that was really interesting. 349 00:14:44,833 --> 00:14:46,416 So that's what I mean, like moving away 350 00:14:46,416 --> 00:14:48,166 from the short story or the journalism, 351 00:14:48,166 --> 00:14:51,166 which is totally like you

just write whatever kind of. 352 00:14:51,166 --> 00:14:52,416 Factual. 353 00:14:52,750 --> 00:14:57,916 Whereas moving into this is I learned that writing isn't a solo. 354 00:14:58,791 --> 00:15:01,125 It doesn't have to be like the solo project. 355 00:15:01,125 --> 00:15:04,916 You need people to look and say you need feedback and opinion. 356 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:06,375 Nobody writes anything for you. 357 00:15:06,916 --> 00:15:08,583 But you need that feedback. 358 00:15:09,250 --> 00:15:11,291 And I suppose that that must help in 359 00:15:11,291 --> 00:15:13,125 just when you're just writing a book 360 00:15:13,125 --> 00:15:15,041 or whatever, like that extra 361 00:15:15,041 --> 00:15:17,625 perspective, you know, most when you're writing 362 00:15:17,666 --> 00:15:20,041 then like a prose piece or whatever. 363 00:15:20,333 --> 00:15:21,625 Totally. Because when I went back 364 00:15:21,625 --> 00:15:23,625 then to do the last drafts of my novel 365 00:15:23,625 --> 00:15:27,291 after reading the play, I had I was so clued in 366 00:15:27,291 --> 00:15:31,125 about these different voices, you know, for me, Dean, like, you know, 367 00:15:31,125 --> 00:15:33,250 there were already more is different in the book, 368 00:15:33,250 --> 00:15:35,500 but I kind of put another layer of difference on them. 369 00:15:36,416 --> 00:15:40,750 Absolutely. So it's an extra benefit, I suppose, to. 370 00:15:40,875 --> 00:15:43,541 Yeah, definitely, definitely. 371 00:15:43,791 --> 00:15:46,083 Like I've been writing comedy for years, 372 00:15:46,083 --> 00:15:48,250 Pantomime for my local Panto group here. 373 00:15:48,541 --> 00:15:51,750 And I actually love writing comedy like I love it. 374 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,791 But like these were more kind of serious projects. 375 00:15:57,250 --> 00:16:00,166 You're drawing the different sides to your personality, Carina. 376 00:16:00,250 --> 00:16:02,208 Oh, yes, just great and silly stuff. 377 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,708 Yeah, these aren't that silly. 378 00:16:05,708 --> 00:16:06,750 I hope not anyway. 379 00:16:07,208 --> 00:16:09,666 And as the head of PR for Mercier Press, 380 00:16:09,666 --> 00:16:12,666 you've been you've seen countless books launch. 381 00:16:12,916 --> 00:16:16,541 Like, did that behind the curtain knowledge make the release of media 382 00:16:16,541 --> 00:16:18,916 more or less nerve wracking for each person? 383 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,958 Well, one thing that I have been writing this book for eight years, 384 00:16:23,083 --> 00:16:27,708 on and off in there before I ever started working for Mercy Press. 385 00:16:28,250 --> 00:16:31,541 So what I did learn now, I had sent it off 386 00:16:31,541 --> 00:16:33,208 in the early days to a couple of publishers 387 00:16:33,250 --> 00:16:34,958 and they weren't interested in though I 388 00:16:34,958 --> 00:16:37,208 had interest from on stream publishing. 389 00:16:37,208 --> 00:16:38,500 Brad's Crowley initially. 390

00:16:38,500 --> 00:16:40,208 That's why she launched my book in 391 00:16:40,208 --> 00:16:42,541 Elizabeth 4th last week or the week before last. 392 00:16:42,666 --> 00:16:45,708 But she's kind of scaled down her publishing now. 393 00:16:45,916 --> 00:16:48,500 But what I learned from her is like the book wasn't ready. 394 00:16:48,541 --> 00:16:50,916 And then as I was getting I do not 395 00:16:50,916 --> 00:16:52,416 deal with the submissions of Mercier, 396 00:16:52,666 --> 00:16:54,583 but I'm doing admin for them. 397 00:16:54,583 --> 00:16:57,958 So I am looking sometimes at submissions if they come into the info. 398 00:16:58,333 --> 00:17:00,625 And I might have a look and I have flagged one or two. 399 00:17:00,875 --> 00:17:02,625 But what I realised, I was not going 400 00:17:02,625 --> 00:17:04,541 to be giving the manuscript to Mercier 401 00:17:04,541 --> 00:17:05,583 because I knew it wasn't ready. 402 00:17:06,666 --> 00:17:08,583 And there's no point like it's just 403 00:17:08,583 --> 00:17:10,250 wasting your time because they can't 404 00:17:10,333 --> 00:17:11,875 start telling you to go back and 405 00:17:11,875 --> 00:17:15,041 rewrite the whole book unless it's like some 406 00:17:15,375 --> 00:17:17,250 crazy, crazy work of art altogether. 407 00:17:17,541 --> 00:17:21,166 So what I did is on my own time, I had 408 00:17:21,166 --> 00:17:23,291 already engaged a developmental editor. 409 00:17:23,458 --> 00:17:25,000 I got a large report. 410 00:17:25,166 --> 00:17:26,291 I went up to Tipperary. 411 00:17:26,291 --> 00:17:30,041 I locked myself in a room twice for a week working on that report. 412 00:17:30,250 --> 00:17:33,375 Just you don't have to act on everything in the report. 413 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:35,541 Some things I didn't agree with. 414 00:17:35,833 --> 00:17:37,083 But generally I did. 415 00:17:37,125 --> 00:17:39,458 And I didn't give it to Mercier until it was ready. 416 00:17:39,541 --> 00:17:42,666 OK. Like I didn't say it to the submission editor a few years ago. 417 00:17:42,666 --> 00:17:44,041 I've got this brilliant book here. 418 00:17:44,291 --> 00:17:45,541 Like I knew that wasn't going to work. 419 00:17:45,541 --> 00:17:48,958 And I saw the way they deal with the submissions and they just send 420 00:17:48,958 --> 00:17:50,750 the best of back saying it's not ready. 421 00:17:50,833 --> 00:17:55,208 So I just, you know, like you have a better chance to get published 422 00:17:55,250 --> 00:17:58,875 if you present with some kind of a polished manuscript. 423 00:17:59,166 --> 00:18:00,916 Now, Mercier did come back to me and 424 00:18:00,916 --> 00:18:02,583 I did have to change things like one 425 00:18:02,583 --> 00:18:04,958 of my characters disappears mid book and I 426 00:18:04,958 --> 00:18:07,541 was told the emotional arc of the reader. 427 00:18:08,375 --> 00:18:11,916 Oh, oh, oh, I had to go ahead and write somebody back in. 428 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,041 So like it wasn't

like, like it 429 00:18:15,041 --> 00:18:16,625 wasn't they said, well, we're ready to go. 430 00:18:16,625 --> 00:18:18,791 No, no, no. So there were changes. 431 00:18:18,791 --> 00:18:20,291 But like, yeah, I mean, I would 432 00:18:20,291 --> 00:18:23,291 definitely advise anyone who's writing a novel 433 00:18:23,583 --> 00:18:25,333 and they're serious about it, a fictional 434 00:18:25,333 --> 00:18:28,208 novel, especially nonfiction is different. 435 00:18:28,416 --> 00:18:30,625 But you really need to get I mean, 436 00:18:30,625 --> 00:18:32,500 your brother can read it or your mammy 437 00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:35,041 can read it or somebody and they're going to say, like, it's great. 438 00:18:35,166 --> 00:18:36,958 Sometimes my own family read it. 439 00:18:37,041 --> 00:18:38,708 I got sensational feedback. 440 00:18:38,958 --> 00:18:40,916 It really helped, but really have 441 00:18:40,916 --> 00:18:43,541 to send it off to somebody who that's 442 00:18:43,541 --> 00:18:45,208 what they're doing for a living and can read it. 443 00:18:45,250 --> 00:18:49,333 I'm absolutely cruel and say, look, it needs a bit of restructuring. 444 00:18:49,333 --> 00:18:51,583 And that's important, you know, before you send it in. 445 00:18:52,416 --> 00:18:55,208 That's my advice to writers. 446 00:18:55,333 --> 00:18:57,000 And just seeing the like the business 447 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:58,791 side of publishing, like the marketing, 448 00:18:58,833 --> 00:19:01,000 the reviews, the sales make it harder 449 00:19:01,125 --> 00:19:03,250 to keep the creative side of your brain 450 00:19:03,250 --> 00:19:05,750 pure when you sit down to write your power. 451 00:19:06,458 --> 00:19:09,666 I work part time for Mercier and I work remotely. 452 00:19:09,791 --> 00:19:12,791 I tend to deal with like I would have come 453 00:19:12,791 --> 00:19:14,625 across you before you would have come across me. 454 00:19:14,625 --> 00:19:16,916 I would have put Thaddeus on your show. 455 00:19:16,916 --> 00:19:22,208 Thaddeus Ó Buachalla who wrote EL, He's a Cork City and Rebecca Murphy was on. 456 00:19:22,208 --> 00:19:23,291 So I'd be doing that. 457 00:19:23,291 --> 00:19:26,708 So I was quite busy with two books before I launched my own book. 458 00:19:27,666 --> 00:19:31,041 So it would I mean, it does now somebody else was doing the marketing 459 00:19:31,041 --> 00:19:34,166 for my book in Mercier because that wouldn't have been apt for me. 460 00:19:34,208 --> 00:19:35,500 So it does. 461 00:19:35,541 --> 00:19:36,666 I mean, it's a hard business. 462 00:19:36,666 --> 00:19:40,208 I mean, we brought out three novels alone, Mercier in May. 463 00:19:40,375 --> 00:19:42,625 And I don't know, are you a fan of Books Ireland magazine? 464 00:19:42,625 --> 00:19:43,958 But you can go in there and see all 465 00:19:43,958 --> 00:19:45,666 the releases in this country alone. 466 00:19:45,666 --> 00:19:47,333 I mean, there's a lot of competition. 467 00:19:47,416 --> 00:19:49,541 I mean, it's hard to make money out of the arts, you know. 468 00:19:49,916 --> 00:19:50,875 Yeah, absolutely. 469 00:19:51,041 --> 00:19:53,166 You know, but you just have to keep going. 470 00:19:54,083 --> 00:19:54,291 OK. 471 00:19:54,916 --> 00:19:59,333 And how do you manage the switch between promoting others books 472 00:19:59,375 --> 00:20:01,375 and finding the headspace to write your own? 473 00:20:02,250 --> 00:20:04,875 I have been working in this book a long time, Geraldine, 474 00:20:05,125 --> 00:20:07,583 eight years, two years on, two years off. 475 00:20:07,708 --> 00:20:10,375 So sometimes I would just not work for a week. 476 00:20:10,666 --> 00:20:12,916 At the end, I was like taking time out 477 00:20:13,083 --> 00:20:15,125 and just totally focusing on the book. 478 00:20:15,375 --> 00:20:17,541 But because I'm working part time, it's easier for me. 479 00:20:17,541 --> 00:20:18,958 Like I wouldn't be working every day. 480 00:20:19,250 --> 00:20:20,708 I'd probably be checking emails 481 00:20:20,708 --> 00:20:21,958 every day when you work with the press. 482 00:20:21,958 --> 00:20:24,000 You have to. But yeah, I was I was 483 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,250 kind of I was I was making time on my own 484 00:20:28,083 --> 00:20:29,250 away from everybody. 485 00:20:29,416 --> 00:20:31,291 I had to have a fuzzy brain. 486 00:20:31,500 --> 00:20:35,166 So yeah, I was kind of locking myself away and saying. 487 00:20:37,083 --> 00:20:38,416 today I"ll do this? 488 00:20:39,041 --> 00:20:42,333 Absolutely, and Mercier press is like a Cork 489 00:20:42,333 --> 00:20:45,125 institution from your pure perspective. 490 00:20:45,291 --> 00:20:46,916 What do you think is the secret sauce 491 00:20:46,916 --> 00:20:49,083 that makes Cork's creative community 492 00:20:49,291 --> 00:20:50,875 so distinct from the rest of Ireland? 493 00:20:51,541 --> 00:20:54,708 How do we differentiate ourselves from all those other ones up there? 494 00:20:54,958 --> 00:20:59,041 We do. And I mean, like, our series is an absolute champion of, well, 495 00:20:59,083 --> 00:21:02,291 Irish writers, but they love Cork, of course. 496 00:21:02,541 --> 00:21:05,041 I think, you know, a lot of it is to 497 00:21:05,041 --> 00:21:06,958 do with the culture of an organisation. 498 00:21:06,958 --> 00:21:07,875 I don't know when I was doing the 499 00:21:07,875 --> 00:21:09,750 social studies, we learned a lot about that. 500 00:21:09,750 --> 00:21:10,625 You know, the culture of 501 00:21:10,625 --> 00:21:13,208 organisations and the top down and everything. 502 00:21:13,541 --> 00:21:15,875 So like the culture of Mercier is 503 00:21:15,875 --> 00:21:17,833 amazing because there's a huge pride. 504 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,416 Family run business. Mary Fiana is still running it. 505 00:21:20,458 --> 00:21:21,666 And she's the director. 506 00:21:21,833 --> 00:21:23,500 John Spillane is still involved. 507 00:21:23,666 --> 00:21:27,250 He's

a director. They have so much pride and Mary's heritage. 508 00:21:27,250 --> 00:21:28,291 Her parents started it 509 00:21:28,750 --> 00:21:30,750 And she's got so much interest in history. 510 00:21:30,791 --> 00:21:32,166 I mean, Mercier is amazing. 511 00:21:32,250 --> 00:21:35,625 I mean, they were nominated for the pre-volterre five or six years 512 00:21:35,625 --> 00:21:39,125 go on London, only European publishing company ever. 513 00:21:39,250 --> 00:21:41,583 Mary is still publishing books and no one 514 00:21:41,583 --> 00:21:43,458 else will publish about the north of Ireland. 515 00:21:43,541 --> 00:21:46,416 The Revie Brothers now, one of our books, the Revie Brothers 516 00:21:46,458 --> 00:21:49,625 is up for a true crime award in London in June. 517 00:21:50,250 --> 00:21:52,916 You know, it's like stuff that not 518 00:21:52,916 --> 00:21:54,416 everybody in the North wants to read. 519 00:21:54,416 --> 00:21:56,041 Not everything Britain wants to read. 520 00:21:56,250 --> 00:22:00,458 So like there's this kind of like a power behind it and a pride. 521 00:22:00,541 --> 00:22:01,666 I love that about it. 522 00:22:01,708 --> 00:22:04,166 And also, you know, just giving a giving. 523 00:22:04,166 --> 00:22:07,291 It's a smaller company, so it's able to give people a voice. 524 00:22:07,291 --> 00:22:11,041 We definitely have a more personable relationship with our writers 525 00:22:11,041 --> 00:22:12,333 and everything like that. 526 00:22:12,333 --> 00:22:13,458 There's no doubt about it. 527 00:22:13,583 --> 00:22:14,250 Absolutely. 528 00:22:14,541 --> 00:22:16,958 Because it's not one of the big five, you know. 529 00:22:17,250 --> 00:22:17,416 Yeah. 530 00:22:18,125 --> 00:22:20,416 There are no indie indie publisher. 531 00:22:21,125 --> 00:22:22,833 It suits your personality. 532 00:22:22,833 --> 00:22:24,458 So. Oh, thank you. 533 00:22:25,833 --> 00:22:26,125 Yeah. 534 00:22:26,916 --> 00:22:29,166 I'm writing a novel while you mentioned 535 00:22:29,166 --> 00:22:31,000 it there about working multiple roles. 536 00:22:31,041 --> 00:22:32,041 It's a marathon. 537 00:22:32,041 --> 00:22:35,458 Like what was the biggest wall you hit during the writing of Mithin? 538 00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:37,083 And how did you push through it? 539 00:22:37,125 --> 00:22:38,916 Was it just the time or? 540 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,500 No, about I was I had I wrote away a draft of it. 541 00:22:43,833 --> 00:22:47,250 It took me about now, you see, I'm not one of these people. 542 00:22:47,291 --> 00:22:49,500 I actually am quite a disorganised 543 00:22:49,500 --> 00:22:51,541 person, so I'm not the person up at six o'clock 544 00:22:51,541 --> 00:22:52,708 at the desk or anything like that. 545 00:22:52,708 --> 00:22:54,041 I'm just like, I wish I was. 546 00:22:54,208 --> 00:22:55,500 I'm just like quite disorganised. 547 00:22:55,666 --> 00:22:58,041 So I was I was writing it here and there and bits. 548 00:22:58,375 --> 00:22:59,791 But of course, the biggest block is that 549 00:22:59,791 --> 00:23:01,875 I read it about three years after I had 550 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,708 started it and I opened it and I said, 551 00:23:03,750 --> 00:23:06,208 this is a heap of nobody will ever want 552 00:23:06,208 --> 00:23:10,958 to read this and I was put away lack of confidence in my own writing. 553 00:23:11,500 --> 00:23:14,500 Then I don't know what hit me another two years later. 554 00:23:14,583 --> 00:23:17,541 I kind of took it up again and I said, you know what? 555 00:23:17,833 --> 00:23:18,666 This is actually bad. 556 00:23:19,250 --> 00:23:20,666 Maybe somebody would like to read it. 557 00:23:21,208 --> 00:23:24,083 And then kind of giving it to my mom and 558 00:23:24,083 --> 00:23:26,083 my sister actually were my kind of first 559 00:23:26,291 --> 00:23:28,125 editors, developmental editors. 560 00:23:28,500 --> 00:23:30,041 So they said that it was good. 561 00:23:30,041 --> 00:23:32,083 And then I suppose when Roz Crowley saw 562 00:23:32,083 --> 00:23:34,125 potential in it, it really gave me the 563 00:23:34,125 --> 00:23:36,041 confidence, a lack of confidence in my 564 00:23:36,041 --> 00:23:37,625 writing and kind of wondering who'd like 565 00:23:37,625 --> 00:23:41,166 to read it. I think as we get like as 566 00:23:41,166 --> 00:23:43,250 we get older as well, I think part of it 567 00:23:43,250 --> 00:23:45,041 just goes like, who cares? 568 00:23:45,041 --> 00:23:45,833 Like they don't like it. 569 00:23:45,916 --> 00:23:47,791 They just, you know, like you just have to. 570 00:23:48,125 --> 00:23:51,208 And a lot of the time it's just we are our biggest critiques. 571 00:23:51,208 --> 00:23:52,916 Like sometimes you just have to get out 572 00:23:52,916 --> 00:23:54,916 there and it's even just giving it to your 573 00:23:54,916 --> 00:23:56,500 mother or giving it to your sister. 574 00:23:56,750 --> 00:23:59,375 You just need someone else to say, it's actually good. 575 00:23:59,875 --> 00:24:03,083 And that is just that little bit of confidence to go see. 576 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,500 I also, you know, I suppose just to talk 577 00:24:08,500 --> 00:24:10,750 about the actual book itself, I maybe I 578 00:24:11,083 --> 00:24:12,583 I think it was kind of good. 579 00:24:12,583 --> 00:24:14,458 I spent took me so long to do because I 580 00:24:14,458 --> 00:24:16,583 had been reading a lot in between and I 581 00:24:16,708 --> 00:24:18,583 cleared up a lot of Irish mythology 582 00:24:18,583 --> 00:24:20,541 with plants and the mythology around the 583 00:24:20,541 --> 00:24:22,666 plants. And I was kind of collecting all 584 00:24:22,666 --> 00:24:24,708 this information myself over the years. 585 00:24:24,708 --> 00:24:26,541 It was kind of going into my brain or if 586 00:24:26,541 --> 00:24:28,916 I'd be somewhere, I'd pick up a book or, 587 00:24:29,083 --> 00:24:30,791 you know, so I was kind of layering it 588 00:24:30,791 -->

00:24:33,083 up and I was I was able to weave it in. 589 00:24:33,458 --> 00:24:35,416 Even though I took that two years of not 590 00:24:35,458 --> 00:24:37,500 writing anything, whatever was going on, 591 00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:38,583 whatever I had been reading and 592 00:24:38,583 --> 00:24:40,416 learning, when I took out the next draft, I said, 593 00:24:40,416 --> 00:24:41,500 oh, I can put that in there. 594 00:24:41,500 --> 00:24:42,416 Oh, I can put that in there. 595 00:24:42,666 --> 00:24:43,875 So I was kind of weaving. 596 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,875 You might have been doing it all the 597 00:24:45,875 --> 00:24:48,625 time, but it was in the background of your 598 00:24:48,625 --> 00:24:49,458 mind all the time. 599 00:24:49,958 --> 00:24:50,750 Yeah, exactly. 600 00:24:51,125 --> 00:24:51,833 So I was. 601 00:24:52,125 --> 00:24:54,333 Yeah. So I love Irish mythology as well. 602 00:24:54,333 --> 00:24:56,500 So I was kind of like I was reading 603 00:24:56,500 --> 00:24:58,666 away that and then I ended up in the book. 604 00:24:58,791 --> 00:25:02,083 Somehow I'd say, oh, well, how did it turn into a deer? 605 00:25:02,083 --> 00:25:03,458 I said, how did that end up on that page? 606 00:25:03,458 --> 00:25:05,000 I can't remember putting it in, but it did. 607 00:25:07,125 --> 00:25:09,416 And looking back at your like your first 608 00:25:09,458 --> 00:25:11,416 published piece versus your work today, 609 00:25:11,708 --> 00:25:13,625 what's the most important lesson you've 610 00:25:13,625 --> 00:25:16,000 learned about the patience required for a 611 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:16,666 creative career? 612 00:25:17,875 --> 00:25:19,708 The patience required for. 613 00:25:19,875 --> 00:25:22,125 Yeah, you do need patience. 614 00:25:22,125 --> 00:25:25,083 I mean, it's very hard like to say, oh, 615 00:25:25,083 --> 00:25:27,208 I'm going to write this now to make my 616 00:25:27,208 --> 00:25:30,666 fortune like, you know, like God's like 617 00:25:30,750 --> 00:25:32,708 you need you need to be interested in what 618 00:25:32,708 --> 00:25:34,000 you're writing about. 619 00:25:34,125 --> 00:25:36,791 You need to maybe know a little bit 620 00:25:36,791 --> 00:25:38,500 about what you're writing about or why you're 621 00:25:38,500 --> 00:25:41,375 writing it. Like I kind of in a way like you can't write that. 622 00:25:41,625 --> 00:25:43,208 Writing for yourself unless you're writing 623 00:25:43,208 --> 00:25:44,458 a journal, obviously you want to write for 624 00:25:44,458 --> 00:25:47,041 other people. But I had patience with it 625 00:25:47,041 --> 00:25:49,208 because I thought I would like to write 626 00:25:49,208 --> 00:25:51,041 stuff that I would like to read myself. 627 00:25:51,166 --> 00:25:53,541 So it was kind of a journey for myself. 628 00:25:54,041 --> 00:25:54,791 A labour of love. 629 00:25:55,333 --> 00:25:57,458 Rather than like, I'm going to write this 630 00:25:57,458 --> 00:25:59,250 now and it's going to be this huge seller 631 00:25:59,250 --> 00:26:01,750 on Broadway and I'm going to have a brand new car or something. 632 00:26:01,750 --> 00:26:02,916 It doesn't really work like that. 633 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,708 Maybe ask yourself why you're doing it. 634 00:26:04,875 --> 00:26:06,666 And that gives you if you can answer 635 00:26:06,666 --> 00:26:09,916 that, it gives you the patience or maybe the 636 00:26:10,083 --> 00:26:11,166 reason to write. 637 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,250 You have to enjoy the process and be miserable like it's. 638 00:26:15,583 --> 00:26:17,000 Yeah, it can be lonely. 639 00:26:17,750 --> 00:26:19,291 And another thing is you have to kind of 640 00:26:19,291 --> 00:26:20,625 surround yourself with people that kind of 641 00:26:20,625 --> 00:26:21,791 support it as well. 642 00:26:22,125 --> 00:26:24,166 You know, absolutely. 643 00:26:24,375 --> 00:26:25,750 As you will have. I mean, there were times 644 00:26:25,750 --> 00:26:27,875 when I was writing a lot and like I'd be 645 00:26:27,875 --> 00:26:29,666 given out to my family, you've done the 646 00:26:29,666 --> 00:26:31,750 computer again, you know, this kind of stuff. 647 00:26:31,750 --> 00:26:35,708 And then you'd have to say, right, stand up for myself here. 648 00:26:36,750 --> 00:26:37,875 Well, that's it. Exactly. 649 00:26:38,458 --> 00:26:41,500 And given like your like your PR 650 00:26:41,833 --> 00:26:44,416 expertise, like what's the one thing that Cork 651 00:26:44,416 --> 00:26:46,416 creatives often overlook when trying 652 00:26:46,416 --> 00:26:48,541 to build their own professional brand? 653 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,333 I would say. 654 00:26:53,166 --> 00:26:56,291 Liaising with people, with other 655 00:26:56,416 --> 00:27:00,750 writers go to events, build up a network. 656 00:27:00,791 --> 00:27:01,875 It's very important. 657 00:27:02,125 --> 00:27:04,958 I mean, I'm not a great on social media right now. 658 00:27:05,083 --> 00:27:07,958 I do PR, but I create a lot of content as 659 00:27:07,958 --> 00:27:11,250 in I create like I get people on TV or maybe 660 00:27:11,250 --> 00:27:14,291 on the radio or I haven't managed to get on that much at all yet. 661 00:27:14,291 --> 00:27:17,583 but I will hopefully, podcasts whatever. 662 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,500 I don't actually run the Instagram page or the Facebook page. 663 00:27:21,750 --> 00:27:23,750 So I hand that over to the lady that does. 664 00:27:24,125 --> 00:27:26,625 But, you know, obviously that can be 665 00:27:26,625 --> 00:27:29,083 important, but just be out besides that at all. 666 00:27:29,083 --> 00:27:31,708 Build up a network of creative people 667 00:27:31,750 --> 00:27:33,458 and people who are supportive to your work, 668 00:27:33,708 --> 00:27:36,791 because there were days when you think it's I can do this. 669 00:27:36,916 --> 00:27:37,791 It's not good. 670 00:27:37,791 --> 00:27:41,291 There will be days you will have no confidence in

your abilities. 671 00:27:41,583 --> 00:27:42,958 And it's just surround yourself with 672 00:27:42,958 --> 00:27:45,291 people like minded people in the arts. 673 00:27:45,333 --> 00:27:46,125 And it's great. 674 00:27:46,291 --> 00:27:48,041 And that will lead to more context and more 675 00:27:48,041 --> 00:27:50,416 and more context because people in the arts, 676 00:27:50,500 --> 00:27:52,750 people like to be creatives, like to be around each other. 677 00:27:52,791 --> 00:27:54,291 And we support each other. 678 00:27:54,416 --> 00:27:56,458 Absolutely. Because as you say, it can be lonely. 679 00:27:56,541 --> 00:27:59,083 Yeah. I do notice that answer your question exactly. 680 00:27:59,625 --> 00:28:00,375 Absolutely. 681 00:28:00,791 --> 00:28:02,541 And like you wear many hats like you're a 682 00:28:02,541 --> 00:28:05,208 historian, PR head, writer and social care 683 00:28:05,208 --> 00:28:07,166 worker, like how would you protect your 684 00:28:07,166 --> 00:28:09,833 creative energy while balancing so many 685 00:28:09,833 --> 00:28:10,500 roles? 686 00:28:10,708 --> 00:28:13,875 OK, so I'm back working in social care now. 687 00:28:13,875 --> 00:28:15,958 I worked as a social care worker worker for 688 00:28:15,958 --> 00:28:18,291 years, but I am working on a relief basis. 689 00:28:18,291 --> 00:28:20,916 So like if somebody's sick, are they going holidays and called in? 690 00:28:21,166 --> 00:28:22,666 So that's kind of sporadic. 691 00:28:22,666 --> 00:28:23,625 But I mean, I was there yesterday. 692 00:28:23,833 --> 00:28:24,541 I'm going next week. 693 00:28:24,791 --> 00:28:26,708 You know, I can be there a lot if I want, really. 694 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,208 But I try now in the summer maybe not 695 00:28:30,208 --> 00:28:33,916 to do much of that because most of my 696 00:28:33,958 --> 00:28:35,708 historical writing would be in the summer. 697 00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:38,000 So I'd probably concentrate on that and 698 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,791 step back from the social care and go back into 699 00:28:39,791 --> 00:28:40,500 the social care. 700 00:28:40,833 --> 00:28:42,375 I enjoy working in social care. 701 00:28:42,583 --> 00:28:44,500 A lot of that is because there's a team there. 702 00:28:44,666 --> 00:28:46,458 And I was always working in teams. 703 00:28:46,500 --> 00:28:49,125 And when I'm working remote, it can be 704 00:28:49,125 --> 00:28:51,541 like, you know, it can be like, you know, a bit 705 00:28:51,750 --> 00:28:54,166 like lonely or you don't have that team. 706 00:28:54,583 --> 00:28:56,375 You know, people are working different times. 707 00:28:56,416 --> 00:28:58,083 People are working remotely, can't pick up 708 00:28:58,083 --> 00:28:59,791 the phone to a colleague and ask a question 709 00:28:59,958 --> 00:29:02,625 because they're probably not working the same times as you. 710 00:29:02,750 --> 00:29:04,458 So when I go into social care, I have a 711 00:29:04,458 --> 00:29:06,458 team

and I kind of enjoy that, you know. 712 00:29:06,500 --> 00:29:06,750 Yeah. 713 00:29:07,041 --> 00:29:09,250 But you like social as I establish as well. 714 00:29:09,416 --> 00:29:09,750 I do. 715 00:29:09,791 --> 00:29:10,166 I do. 716 00:29:10,208 --> 00:29:11,291 Yeah, I do. 717 00:29:11,541 --> 00:29:14,083 So like when I'd be in social care, I 718 00:29:14,083 --> 00:29:15,916 wouldn't be talking about my creative side at all. 719 00:29:15,916 --> 00:29:16,666 Like, you know what I mean? 720 00:29:17,250 --> 00:29:20,458 I wouldn't be talking about my novel or anything like that. 721 00:29:20,458 --> 00:29:20,958 But they did. 722 00:29:20,958 --> 00:29:22,208 Some of them did come to my launch. 723 00:29:22,250 --> 00:29:23,541 Castletownbere, I was very pleased. 724 00:29:23,583 --> 00:29:24,166 Fair play. 725 00:29:24,291 --> 00:29:24,916 Very good. 726 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,916 My colleague, I met with a colleague yesterday. 727 00:29:26,916 --> 00:29:28,208 She told me she's reading the book. 728 00:29:28,416 --> 00:29:28,708 So. 729 00:29:29,166 --> 00:29:29,833 Very good. 730 00:29:30,041 --> 00:29:30,583 Very good. 731 00:29:30,625 --> 00:29:32,916 Did you see all these potential readers? 732 00:29:34,916 --> 00:29:38,416 And with the book now in the world, what's next on the horizon? 733 00:29:38,500 --> 00:29:40,541 Are you going to focus more on theatrical 734 00:29:40,541 --> 00:29:43,875 work, another novel or something entirely new? 735 00:29:44,500 --> 00:29:46,791 Well, I'll tell you now, the next kind of 736 00:29:47,166 --> 00:29:50,166 project I'm thinking of doing is with Mercier. 737 00:29:50,208 --> 00:29:52,250 And I will write something for it myself. 738 00:29:52,708 --> 00:29:56,208 But I'm hoping to kind of coordinate 739 00:29:57,083 --> 00:30:00,250 like a book of stories written by women and 740 00:30:00,250 --> 00:30:01,791 anthology, I suppose you could call it, 741 00:30:02,083 --> 00:30:04,791 about how the Calach or how our ancient 742 00:30:04,958 --> 00:30:07,750 like, goddesses, or the Calach in particular, 743 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,708 resonates with them in their day to day life. 744 00:30:10,833 --> 00:30:14,666 And a few well-known people now who've agreed to sign up for that. 745 00:30:14,750 --> 00:30:15,791 No spoilers. 746 00:30:16,750 --> 00:30:19,833 But I'm hoping to coordinate that story. 747 00:30:19,833 --> 00:30:21,333 So I think that will be interesting. 748 00:30:21,625 --> 00:30:23,083 Then, you know, some well-known people and 749 00:30:23,083 --> 00:30:25,166 some younger women as well to bring a little 750 00:30:25,166 --> 00:30:27,125 bit of wisdom out in the world and coordinate that. 751 00:30:27,125 --> 00:30:28,750 So I probably write a story for that myself. 752 00:30:28,916 --> 00:30:29,250 Very good. 753 00:30:29,708 --> 00:30:32,791 But I have no big writing project at the moment. 754 00:30:32,916 --> 00:30:34,333 This is your baby. 755 00:30:34,333 --> 00:30:35,708 You need to give yourself a bit of a rest. 756 00:30:36,250 --> 00:30:36,916 Exactly. 757 00:30:37,708 --> 00:30:41,500 I need to rest and see how she's going to go, how she's going to do. 758 00:30:41,625 --> 00:30:43,125 Baby number two, then, will be on the way. 759 00:30:43,583 --> 00:30:44,875 Yeah, exactly. 760 00:30:45,666 --> 00:30:47,583 So that's my next plan. 761 00:30:47,583 --> 00:30:49,666 So I have to have a meeting with Dee Collins. 762 00:30:49,666 --> 00:30:51,625 I had a book, The Mercier, about that. 763 00:30:52,666 --> 00:30:56,666 And I'll throw some names into the pot and we'll make a plan. 764 00:30:56,916 --> 00:30:57,416 Very good. 765 00:30:57,458 --> 00:30:58,000 Sounds good. 766 00:30:58,166 --> 00:30:59,833 Well, thanks so much, Carina, for 767 00:30:59,833 --> 00:31:01,166 chating with me today on Cork creative 768 00:31:01,166 --> 00:31:02,083 Thank you for having me. 769 00:31:02,708 --> 00:31:04,416 And if you want to find more about Carina 770 00:31:04,416 --> 00:31:06,000 in her new book, you can find links to her 771 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,041 socials on corkcreative.ie. 772 00:31:08,625 --> 00:31:09,125 Thank you so much. 773 00:31:09,541 --> 00:31:10,250 Bye.