Full Transcript for Halloween Special: Ghost Armies and the art of deception

army, which I'll tell you about in just a second. 00:01:57.120 --> 00:01:57.840 Little story time. 00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:02.239 But now it really is about military corruption, conscription, and audits. 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:03.680 How do you audit the military? 00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:05.760 They're such enormous entities. 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:15.599 And what you often find is waste, but the waste has to be channeled in some way, and it is often channeled with not the waste, but I guess the corruption, if you will, right? 00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:17.439 So there's waste and there's corruption, they're separate. 00:02:17.599 --> 00:02:21.919 The corruption is certainly about claiming that, you know, whole battalions exist that don't. 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:25.599 And so somebody's pocketing those salaries and everything else that goes into it. 00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:30.240 But it has a little bit to do with the effectiveness of military forces. 00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:36.080 You've got a country like Eritrea that not only has national conscription, but it's endless, right? 00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:42.000 So you can be dragged into that military at any point in your life, especially men, of course. 00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:58.879 That has led to a mass about migration, often through non-legal means from Eritrea, but also a huge amount of young Eritrean men and women, of course, are killed on the battlefield for the fact that they have not been well trained and they're certainly not well treated. 00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:07.439 If you have something like that, where you have a large conscripted army, the waste is going to be in providing for those troops, right? 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:10.560 So uniforms or food or lodging or whatever the case. 00:03:10.719 --> 00:03:14.000 That's where people are going to try to somehow claw back that money. 00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:34.000 If you have an army like or a military like the US, where you know you want really top-of-the-line innovative projects, it's going to be in the waste that comes from contracts for external entities or private military contracts and all the rest of it, where basically you're overcharged, things run long, a lot of money changes hands. 00:03:34.319 --> 00:03:38.479 So that's the kind of snapshot of the role that this has. 00:03:38.719 --> 00:03:42.240 Take us back then for this story time of the original Ghost Army. 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:44.800 Yeah, so this is a really interesting story. 00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:56.879 It's about World War II, and it's the US 23rd Headquarters Special Troops, roughly 1,100 men who impersonated much larger formations in Europe after D-Day. 00:03:57.120 --> 00:04:06.560 Okay, so they used inflatable tanks and artillery sound trucks, fake radio traffic, and stage details like counterfeit unit insignia. 00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:09.759 They were trying to plant intelligence in cafe succession. 00:04:09.919 --> 00:04:14.159 So their best known operation is Versem in

March 1945. 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:20.160 And it simulated two divisions to draw German attention away from the real crossing in the Rhine. 00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:22.480 And the unit was classified for decades. 00:04:22.639 --> 00:04:29.279 Many of its members, this is what I absolutely love, many of its members were artists and designers who went on to have quite notable careers. 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:32.879 And now the term is sometimes used as this modern decoy. 00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:43.360 Russia and Ukraine have both made heavy use of inflatable and wooden decoys to soak up drones and missiles, which is an interesting kind of way in which they're trying to deal with being a target, right? 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:45.040 So you create fake targets. 00:04:45.199 --> 00:05:05.360 You know, I would actually say that World War II, beyond being a really fascinating discussion of like the alliance structures and how it was fought over those years, there are some really fantastic innovations that happened there that weren't, you know, equipment or technology, but Monuments Men is a great book and it's a it's a really good film about this. 00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:10.079 And of course, this is also a really interesting discussion about deception and its role in the military. 00:05:10.319 --> 00:05:17.199 So the deception angle is a bit like, you know, holding something shiny over here and going, look at this instead, and then then something else is going on after. 00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:22.399 That isn't necessarily how the concept of ghost armies is reflected today, right? 00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:26.000 So now it's really about payroll fraud, as I mentioned. 00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:34.800 So it refers to names on a military payroll who don't exist and have deserted or have died while the commanders keep collecting their salaries and their rations. 00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:42.240 So in the Ukraine-Russian situation, especially in the Russian situation, it is about people who have died and they are not declared so. 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:47.920 You and I have discussed before there's an enormous problem here with fatality numbers coming out of that conflict. 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:49.680 And this is one of the reasons. 00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:58.480 So you get a situation in Russia where you have what's called fatality suppression, which is the opposite of what you have in many other cases where you get fatality exaggeration. 00:05:58.639 --> 00:06:05.759 So all sorts of reasons why fatality numbers are purposefully manipulated, which is something we've said many, many times before. 00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:08.160 There's other quite famous cases, I would say. 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:18.800 Iraq 2014, where after Mosul fell, Prime Minister Abadi said that the audit had found there was about 50,000 non-existent soldiers on those books. 00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:21.519 And they looked strong on paper. 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:25.600 They were not able to actually contribute to the conflict, of course, because they didn't exist. 00:06:25.759 --> 00:06:38.160 In Afghanistan, US inspectors spent years warning that reported Afghan security force numbers, which are around 300,000, could not be verified and looked massively inflated by ghost personnel. 00:06:38.319 --> 00:06:46.000 The real fighting strength, especially in 2021, was found to be far, far lower, which explains really how quickly that force unraveled. 00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:59.600 And that kind of corruption, which is that the US was paying for that army to be trained, etc., means that there were many people at the very top level of the Afghan defense and, of course, political structures that were benefiting from enormous amounts of US money. 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:04.399 They were unable to then win or take territory because they didn't exist. 00:07:04.639 --> 00:07:10.000 And then it's very common to find this issue in Nigeria, South Sudan, or DRC, for example. 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:12.879 They have these recurring payroll scandals all the time. 00:07:13.120 --> 00:07:17.759 Biometric registration drives turning up large numbers of fictitious soldiers. 00:07:17.920 --> 00:07:22.319 In South Sudan and in other places too, these inflated numbers are a tool of patronage. 00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:28.319 And they feed Allied commanders and militias through salaries, of course, from these fake people. 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:32.800 Now, I kind of wanted to talk about what patronage is, right? 00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:44.000 How it creates corruption, how certain things are kind of favored as the main means by which you would redistribute, let's say they're often called in academic literature, state rents. 00:07:44.319 --> 00:08:00.480 Effectively, it's money that the state's getting in and then it's redistributing, but not to public goods like a security force, but to elites within the system in order for them to support the structure as it is, whether it's the leader or the combination of elites at the very, very top. 00:08:00.639 --> 00:08:12.800 A patronage system is designed to effectively make sure that people are, for lack of a better term, paid off to keep the current political system, by which I mean it's people in place. 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:24.240 So people are often given really good positions, or they're given additional money, or probably most commonly, there's impunity about their known corruption. 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:30.480 So that I'm not going to go after you if you do these terrible things, and you're going to support me when it really comes down to it. 00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:37.679 You're not going to support like a challenger or somebody in the coup, or you're not going to support even somebody within who wants to challenge my rule. 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:39.519 That's how it works, right? 00:08:40.000 --> 00:09:04.159 And that's really what Saudi Arabia found in that when they went to try to prevent the Houthis in recent weeks

from taking areas in the southwest of the state and those islands, they found that the opposition, whom they had been funding, right, and who made up the security forces of the internationally recognized government of Yemen really were paper. 00:09:04.399 --> 00:09:05.360 It was a ghost running. 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:08.480 Yeah, I think this is where it first came up between you and I, wasn't it? 00:09:08.559 --> 00:09:11.759 And I think it was it like 20% of the of the fighters don't show up. 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:14.240 So whose interests does this serve? 00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:16.080 Like where's the money going, firstly? 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:23.360 But then the reality is, you know, you get called into something and there's not as many people as you're expecting, right? 00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:24.639 That that can't be positive. 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:32.480 Yeah, but I mean, when do you ever, you know, take a good look at the entire army just standing around and do us, you know, do a headcount, right? 00:09:32.559 --> 00:09:33.519 You'd never do that. 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:35.600 Okay, let's just say you're Riyadh. 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:39.759 I'm the head of the opposition forces, let's say in Yemen. 00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:42.480 I say, listen, we need to get more money out of Riyadh. 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:48.879 And I say, I'm gonna pretend that this service has grown by 20%. 00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:54.879 I need names, fake names, fake date of births, you know, fake locations, all the rest of it. 00:09:55.039 --> 00:10:01.120 I'm gonna send that and say that our, you know, we've done a recruitment drive and this is who our new recruits are. 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:02.879 They're gonna send back salaries. 00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:04.000 I'm gonna pocket that. 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:06.480 I'm also gonna make sure that you get your cut, right? 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:12.960 And so, in a sense where there's very poor auditing, this makes a lot of sense to everybody on the ground. 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:22.080 I remember that there was a statement about this in reference to how Russia, before they invaded Ukraine, had this problem a losh, right? 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:31.120 Defense spending more broadly, whether even if it's not payroll spending, is kind of notoriously, notoriously awash with fraud. 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:36.399 You have a doubling of defense spending in the last few years, a lot of that's going into people's pockets. 00:10:36.480 --> 00:10:38.879 It's certainly not going to provide public security. 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:42.320 So there's kickbacks on big procurement deals. 00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:48.080 This often happens, of course, when politicians or constituencies are involved in these deals. 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:52.320 So it's going to happen a lot more in democracies, that particular type of issue. 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:58.000 Whereas diverting budgets or suppliers frauding the buyer, that can also happen a lot in democracies. 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:10.639 And then the selling in the promotions and positions, which is actually a problem in the Saudi army, in the sense that they're not sold, but they are given to princes within the royal family who are not capable of doing it. 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:12.799 And then so they're ineffective in that job. 00:11:12.879 --> 00:11:14.320 That's a form of patronage. 00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:22.080 But China had this enormous problem in that people were buying positions, and that happens m more in autocratic states. 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:25.759 So the financial side makes sense to invested parties, right? 00:11:25.919 --> 00:11:28.960 It's a it's a system and they can make the most out of it. 00:11:29.039 --> 00:11:31.840 It's like every day there's a new benefits fraud story in the UK. 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:34.159 It's it's people taking advantage of the situation, right? 00:11:34.320 --> 00:11:38.080 But when that service is needed, isn't that a a lose-lose? 00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:40.799 I mean, who's at who's going to get in trouble, right? 00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:44.320 So first you have to figure out who orchestrated it. 00:11:44.639 --> 00:11:46.240 Often these things go on for quite a while. 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:52.639 The procurement issue, for example, they may lose the contract, but they'll get it back later. 00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:57.440 The individuals within who've, let's say, pocketed that, that is illegal, right? 00:11:57.600 --> 00:12:05.759 But I don't think you hear a huge number of fraud cases within the armed forces being successfully brought to trial. 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:12.080 So there's a sense that they're going to protect the reputation from what there is of those types of cases being brought up. 00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:16.720 But I will say that there is a US audit office that's been set up for the Defense Department. 00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:26.639 And the US defense industry broadly, or the US, I think basically I think the US military has um never passed an audit. 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:27.440 Never. 00:12:27.679 --> 00:12:29.360 They've failed every single audit. 00:12:29.679 --> 00:12:35.759 That's really surprising, given the patriotism and pride that's associated with the military in the dates. 00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:37.679 So I've got some of the details here, right? 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:40.559 The US Defense Department has never passed an audit. 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:44.559 It has failed every audit since becoming mandatory in 2018. 00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:58.159 The 2024 round was the seventh straight failure, with officials still able to fully account for$824 billion budget with a clean audit now targeted for 2028. 00:12:58.559 --> 00:13:04.799 The earlier round found that nearly half of roughly 4 trillion in assets could not be accounted for. 00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:05.360 Okay. 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:09.200 First thought, it's only been mandatory since 2018. 00:13:09.279

--> 00:13:10.960 That feels really l recent. 00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:22.240 Second thought is if I said to you, oh yeah, I've I've written this thing and I know it's not right yet, sorry, but it should be right in two years, I can't see that going down very well. 00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:24.240 How have they landed on 2028? 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:25.600 We should be able to get this right. 00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:27.600 I really don't know, but I will say this, right? 00:13:27.759 --> 00:13:30.559 2018, Donald Trump was in office, right? 00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:34.799 Whatever process started in 2018, it's not great to hear it. 00:13:34.960 --> 00:13:36.320 In 10 years we'll get it right. 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:37.360 That's a good point. 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:47.039 But it says here that the Government Accountability Office has kept defense weapons acquisition, financial management, and contract management on its high risk list for decades. 00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:52.559 Its annual weapons system assessments are the best source on cost overruns and delays by program. 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:55.120 And the F-35 is the most studied case. 00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:58.320 So this is basically where people are getting kickbacks all throughout the process. 00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:00.399 It's being really, really stretched out. 00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:02.320 And so people kind of continue the money. 00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:10.000 The Defense Business Board, an internal study, identified around$125 billion in potential administrative savings over five years. 00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:15.519 That was reportedly suppressed and became a story only when reported by the Washington Post. 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:30.399 The reports by Transdigim in 2019-2021 found that excess profits on sole source parts were good illustration of legal overcharging, which is distinct from fraud, but that's that happens a lot. 00:14:30.559 --> 00:14:37.679 In wartime contracting, there was an estimated 30 to 60 billion lost on waste and fraud in Iraq and Afghanistan contracting. 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:49.120 SIGAR, Afghanistan, which is Special Inspectors General, produced years of detailed reporting about how money and inflated force numbers interacted with the collapse of the Afghan security forces. 00:14:49.279 --> 00:14:57.279 You know, this is interesting because there's a little bit of a similarity to the fact I was just chatting last night with somebody who runs quite a big granting organization in the States. 00:14:57.519 --> 00:15:06.639 He said one of the things that they think about a lot is how a lot of money can really ruin an organization if they get it all at once, because they cannot absorb it, right? 00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:09.120 So it does lead to waste. 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:13.519 Waste is the best thing it could possibly lead to, you know, or corruption in other cases. 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:19.759 So it's really interesting that Trump was the guy that brought this in because, you know, for for whatever you want to say about him, he's a businessman, right? 00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:22.399 So he would be looking out for waste, I guess. 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:29.440 Um and then when we're talking about the the corruption and the contracts and stuff, have you seen the film War Dogs with Jonah Hill? 00:15:29.679 --> 00:15:31.279 No, actually I have not. 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:45.120 It's silly and it's supposed to be a comedy, so it's very but it's essentially about the bidding process to be the kind of responsible supplier of whatever it is for the states, and so somehow he ends up being one and it's a whole thing. 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:57.440 And I watched it because it looked funny, but actually, the by no means it was I think lots of people have interpreted that it's a true story, it's not, it's written by a guy who had some role to play in it, not true story. 00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:06.480 But so the elements of that bidding process are made quite clear in that, and so that's my sort of only awareness of this. 00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:20.240 Do you think it's the case that maybe the states isn't particularly bad in the grand scheme of things, but because they're more advanced in some other areas, they're actually kind of digging into and exposing that we're just able to point at the numbers and the figures with the states. 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:25.759 Whereas if we're looking at with Saudi, who would be the person to say, right, we need an audit today? 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:27.360 Yeah, yeah, it's a good point. 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:35.919 So I will say that kind of rigorous public auditing is concentrated in countries that have some of the least significant problems, right? 00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:43.600 Because they have the institutions to do it, like Russia, China, Egypt, Eritrea, most African militaries, I would say. 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:52.879 Their analysis on like Transparency International, investigative journalism, leaked documents, like they don't have the same resonance as they would elsewhere. 00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:59.919 I guess I I just think that there is, you know, the militaries have this very, very important public function. 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:02.799 They get a tremendous amount of money. 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:07.839 They have increased the share of the budget that they get everywhere. 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:12.799 In fact, one of the biggest issues in Britain just at the moment is about the defense spending. 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:18.720 And everybody wants to claim that it's because the central government doesn't want to spend more on defense because they don't have it. 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:19.759 And that's partially true. 00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:31.440 But it's also true that the defense industry needs to be much better at accounting for this enormous amount of money it takes from the state and be effective with that amount of money, because that's very possible if it was used

well. 00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:38.400 But waste and corruption are features of any system that has this much money. 00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:49.279 And then to basically claim, well, I'm we're unaccountable for it because we're we provide such an important public service is what typically gets them out of having to account for it. 00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:54.160 And it creates this real sense of confusion, I think, within the general public. 00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:58.319 They don't believe that the military can use this money well, it certainly can, right? 00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:03.920 But they also believe that that it's very difficult to find corruption and to root it out, which is true. 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:18.400 But what I would say is that the more I learn about corruption at the very top, or the fact that people have impunity for these types of things that's growing, even within democratic states, at the very top, that becomes criminality somewhere down the system. 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:26.640 And so to me, it's all linked about public trust, public money, public service, and criminality and corruption. 00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:33.759 And so with the way the world is right now, there's a really high level of state conflict, conflict involving the state, isn't there? 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:42.640 And so if this is going on on kind of all fronts, almost every single military we've mentioned today is busy doing one thing or another across the world at the moment. 00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:44.000 Which direction is this going in? 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:44.880 Is this getting worse? 00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:49.359 Uh, yeah, it's 100% getting worse, especially as you mentioned with that amount of money. 00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:52.000 But it does three things that are really, really bad. 00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:54.960 It hollows out capabilities, like you were just saying. 00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:59.039 You think you have this capable partner that you've paid for several times over. 00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:00.319 It's not there, right? 00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:06.799 Which means that you're now going to expose yourself to more danger because your partner on the ground isn't there. 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:10.640 Or in fact, you've not been sent the right equipment in the right way because of this. 00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:16.079 They had that problem in the Strait of Hormuz, where they were not supporting or they're not equipping US soldiers. 00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:20.079 And in fact, it was a US Navy sufficiently in those places. 00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:22.960 It's kind of a tool of ruling the place, right? 00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:30.240 It's this patronage corruption system that keeps these important people at the very top because they're spreading the wealth out to the people who are necessary. 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:32.960 But it's theft, basically, right? 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:37.839 It's theft that basically is institutionalized within people who are benefiting. 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:44.960 And this opacity, which is that we can't possibly explain where this money went, is the warning sign, right? 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:47.759 We can all explain where our money went, right? 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:53.599 Especially an enormous defense department, no matter where it is in the world, will have records. 00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:53.839 Yeah. 00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:57.039 And those records will be like two trillion of assets have gone missing. 00:19:57.200 --> 00:19:57.519 Yeah. 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:02.240 I can't always explain where mine has gone if I've spent any time in TK Maxx. 00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:03.039 I know. 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:03.359 Yeah. 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:04.960 TK Max does add up. 00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:05.599 I'll say that. 00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:06.079 Yeah. 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:07.119 Out of nowhere. 00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:07.599 Yeah. 00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:19.440 I will say one other thing that's important is that these private military contractors who are sometimes brought in in order to supplement the forces that people believe to exist that didn't, like Blackwater and all the rest of it. 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:28.799 They're brought in in order to deal with the fact that there isn't enough force, there isn't enough uh bodies who are able to fight on the ground. 00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:34.000 And they have an incredibly poor rate of civilian protection. 00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:41.519 So we are putting more civilians in harm by having any sort of corruption within the military forces because of this. 00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:48.240 And the second thing is that they are, as a subject of their contract, they enjoy total impunity about what they're going to do. 00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:52.480 There's no accountability for their actions because of how they were hired in those contracting. 00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:59.519 And, you know, it's led to extremely wealthy people who are mercenaries because of this corruption. 00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:10.319 So, you know, recently when there was all of the issues to do with the funding and the money around the reform party, and then reform investigated themselves and concluded, yeah, no wrongdoing. 00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:13.440 Is that what's likely to happen? 00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:19.200 You know, if people continue to look into this, is it in those who are looking into its interests to conclude that everything's fine? 00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:21.519 I mean, it depends. 00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:26.640 Like, I I don't think any heads have rolled over, you know, several years of failed audits. 00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:36.160 I don't think that anybody's been fired from the UK military for not being able to account for the money that could make up for a shortfall in funding other parts of it. 00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:43.920 I think there's a performance of administrative and bureaucratic assessment, but yeah, I don't think that. 00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:44.559 No. 00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:47.200 Maybe we should do a poll with our listenership. 00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:55.440 In your job, if you said, oh no, I'm sorry, I don't know where that money's gone, ha ha, would that be the end of the story for you? 00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:57.759 Oh God, can you imagine Amanda? 00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:01.359 She'd be like, I don't understand what you just said. 00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:04.480 I can't account for this coffee, Amanda. 00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:04.960 I really can't. 00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:06.319 I don't know where the receipt is. 00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:07.599 Yeah, really sorry. 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:11.920 I'm in the same boat with the uh microphone that went missing that I tried to order for Tiziano. 00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:14.079 It's got lost in the post, and I'm sorry. 00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:16.480 Yeah, we're we're sorry, Amanda. 00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:21.039 We are all right, I think that's uh that's it for today. 00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:26.240 Um please come back where we'll discuss the impacts of this and other things in future episodes. 00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:31.119 Yeah, and I'll do my best to come up with some more themed weeks because I love them. 00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:40.799 You've been listening to Conflicts of Interest with Professor Cleaner Raleigh, brought to you by ACLED, the world's leading source of political violence and protest data. 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:46.559 Subscribe so you never miss an episode, and follow us on socials for updates in the meantime.