Full Transcript for 'HOW LEGS GET BROKEN': Nathan Cleary cleared, but did the judiciary get it wrong?

it, Fatima, and let's make it very clear early that Nathan is the cleanest player we've ever seen. There's obviously nothing malicious in it. so we can establish that very early. Having said that, the angle which Nathan came through, and clearly he was trying to get a charge down 13 seconds of the first half remaining, and that would have been a game changer had he scored. He got the angles muddled up, let's be honest about it, but it didn't look great. I've I hate to say it, Fatima, but that's how leagues get broken these days, hence why the rules are quite strict. I can live with a grade one, okay? I'm not going to blow about it. And I want Nathan playing the big games. He's the biggest name in our game. But having said that, I'm with you. Had it been a grade two, I would quite easily have accepted that as well. 00:04:03 Speaker 2: Yes, and. 00:04:05 Speaker 4: on precedent, if it had been a higher charge, we saw maybe in 24, I think it was, Harry Grant, similar situation on Dan Atkinson at the time when he was at Cronulla, and then challenged that charge and eventually found not guilty. I think in that season as well, in 24, there might have been Jacob Host and Josh Alloway, who both got one game each for similar tackles. So look, yeah, it's one of those ones where If you're a Roosters fan, you're blowing up about it. I have no doubt there are some fans who are going to be crowing that Nathan Cleary is a protected species. But, you know, in the grand scheme of things, I can live with it. 00:04:44 Speaker 2: It's interesting though, like. 00:04:45 Speaker 4: It's one of those moments Nathan obviously will, you know, probably regret. It costs his side, you know, with him being off the field for 10 minutes. 00:04:55 Speaker 2: But he's human, you know. Sometimes we forget. 00:04:58 Speaker 4: We've got him on such a pedestal and rightfully so, you know, he is– this Penrith champion, four straight titles, the rest of it. But it just showed that sometimes even the best player in the game, the game who we think will be Clive Churchill medalists if Penrith play in the grand final, who win a daily M this year, can sometimes get it wrong. And just in a way he got it wrong, it left me thinking, wow, I wonder what he was thinking with just 13 seconds left on. 00:05:24 Speaker 2: The clock and to get it wrong. 00:05:26 Speaker 4: But he's one of those players that will learn from that. And, yeah, now Penrith– will go into the prelim pretty confident that Nathan's there. 00:05:35 Speaker 1: Absolutely. I thought we might give Hugo Savala a little rap too for Timo. He didn't stay down. A lot of players these days would have been lying around writhing in pain, alleged pain, like they do in the European soccer. But to Hugo's credit, he bounced up and I thought, yeah, that was a nice moment in the game where that kind of behaviour is getting worse and worse, in my opinion. I hate all this milking for penalties. So good on Hugo. As for Nathan, you know what? I

think he should probably... wandered down to the Penrith News Agency. I reckon there's got to be one there on High Street somewhere. Just go in there and give five bucks and buy a raffle ticket or a lottery ticket. 00:06:11 Speaker 2: A scratchy. 00:06:11 Speaker 1: Because I think he deserves a scratchy. Because I reckon if he scratches it right now, he'd probably win about. 00:06:16 Speaker 4: $ 10, 000. 00:06:16 Speaker 1: Right, that's the big moment out of that game. But there are other significant incidents in that game. Of course, Penrith won ultimately 19-12. It was a bruising game. It was a real finals feel to it. Do you think, and we'll get to Cherry Evans in a minute, Fatima, but I want to ask you, do you think that the physicality of the game might impact on the Roosters' chances against Cronulla this week? 00:06:40 Speaker 2: Oh, good question. 00:06:42 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was one of those games where, you know, it was just, like you said, it was tough. 00:06:47 Speaker 2: It was brutal. 00:06:49 Speaker 4: Having said that, we'll talk about Cronulla a little bit later, but You know, their key guy, Braden Trindle, looked like he was playing in one arm. 00:06:57 Speaker 2: So, look, maybe we've seen this year that. 00:07:01 Speaker 4: Teams that go down to Penrith struggle to bounce back the next game. 00:07:05 Speaker 2: But, look, the Roosters didn't capitalise on the chances. 00:07:09 Speaker 4: I know we'll probably talk about Sam Walker and whether or not they really miss Sam Walker. I think both you and I agreed last week that, you know, yes, he's a huge loss, but he shouldn't be big enough of a loss for, you know, the Roosters' title chances to fall apart. But against the Sharks, I'm still not convinced of the Sharks. I think they'll be okay in the semifinal. 00:07:30 Speaker 1: Speaking of DCE, I've always been a big DCE fan. However, there were a couple of moments in that game I didn't think Cherry nailed. He had a chance to level the scores. I think it was 13-12 to Penrith. And he didn't take the kick from right in front on his preferred side. He waited until the next play and then basically fluffed it. It missed by quite a significant way. And there was also another kick, which is not essentially Daly's fault, but a kick went dead in goal. It was a restart, seven tackles. That's when Nathan kicked the field goal. So there were two kicks that Cherry produced, which weren't his best, under pressure. And these are the moments that the big players have to step forward under pressure. And I guess there'll be two moments that Daly will look back on this week with a bit of regret. 00:08:17 Speaker 2: Yeah, I tend to agree. 00:08:19 Speaker 4: You know, This was supposed to be Daly's moment, Daly's time. And it's interesting because he's normally, you know, he's better at the field goal than that. Like you said, there was one attempt where he looked like he was about to go for it but then aborted it. And then when he did actually go for it, the setup wasn't great. So, yeah, absolutely, he'll live to regret that. But he's a bit like Nathan. Like, yes, he fluffed those moments, but I don't think if he's put in that situation again this week against Cronulla, that he will not be able to get the job done. We have to talk about Sam Walker, Sam Walker not being there. 00:08:54 Speaker 2: What did you think? Do you think this change, seeing. 00:08:57 Speaker 4: What the Roosters produced without him on the weekend, does it change your thoughts about how important he is to this team? 00:09:03 Speaker 1: No, it doesn't really change my thoughts, Fatima, because I think we all knew going in they were going to miss Sammy. Look, Bailey, I thought, was a steady performer. He did what he had to do. doesn't get out of the structure too much does he really you know he kicked quite well Sam brings the x factor which they didn't have yesterday but you just don't you just don't replace a Sam Walker you can replace a like for like in rugby league and if they're structured you just bring another player into the structure you know next man up they call it these days but it's very hard to be a next man up for Sam Walker because he is so um what's the word left field in some of his choices so um Yeah, they certainly missed him, and they didn't have a lot of points in them, the Roosters. I thought their attack was steady and basic without being brilliant, but this is the world they have to live in, and they're going to keep playing with DCE at halfback next week. There was a suggestion. from Robbo after full-time that never write off the fact that Sam might be there. I don't know whether you got any mail, but I would doubt that Sam Walker would be around for the qualifying final next week. 00:10:11 Speaker 4: Well, the only mail I've got is that he started running. But, you know, in the context of rehab and recovery, that can mean a lot of things. You know, running is not the same thing as being able to complete, you know, at least one full contact session. 00:10:24 Speaker 2: So maybe if they do make the. 00:10:26 Speaker 4: Grand final, that's still what, two, three weekends away now, that changes things. But I'd be shocked if he does come back. 00:10:34 Speaker 1: Right, let's move on. We've got three more games to get through. We had a big weekend of Rugby League. But I do want to ask you one quick one, though, Fatima, the crowds. 00:10:41 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:10:41 Speaker 1: I was bitterly disappointed. It started on Friday night. South pulled 28,000 at Allianz. I thought that crowd should have been at least 35. South kept wanting to go back to Allianz, and this was their big chance to really put some bums on seats. Given they pulled 40, what, was it a week or two ago, against the Roosters? Then we snowballed into the Sharks. Don't know what to say about Sharks fans. It was bitterly disappointing again. 00:11:08 Speaker 2: They got 17,000. 00:11:08 Speaker 1: I mean, that's just an appalling

crowd for a semi-final. And then I even thought yesterday, they got 22,000 at Combank, Roosters v Panthers, an all-Sydney blockbuster, and we couldn't even sell out Combank Stadium. You can't sit here and tell a fib by saying those crowds were acceptable. 00:11:27 Speaker 2: They were not acceptable. 00:11:29 Speaker 4: And I actually think the Sunday crowd at Combank Stadium was is more of an indictment than the 17,500 that went to Allianz because we sort of knew that was going to happen. But, you know, and of course the fact in the Sharks game was it was a proper out-of-town team, you know, like it was a big ask to expect that 10,000 Cowboys fans were going to come down to Sydney for that game. But I'm so surprised that Conbank Stadium wasn't a packed house, you know, and I. 00:12:02 Speaker 2: Get it's not. 00:12:04 Speaker 4: you know, the spiritual home ground of Penrith. And I understand that Parramatta from the eastern. 00:12:09 Speaker 2: Suburbs feels like it's a world away. But, you know, I'll get dragged if I get this wrong. 00:12:14 Speaker 4: But geographically it feels like it's almost the halfway point between both of those places. 00:12:20 Speaker 2: So I would. 00:12:21 Speaker 4: Have expected even more of a turnout from Panthers crowds. So, look, I don't know whether it is really we're seeing like, you know, The pinch, people are feeling it. There is a cost of living crisis. But then, you know, that falls back as much on the NRL to be doing everything they can to promote each one of these games as an event, as something that you want to go to, something you want to take. 00:12:47 Speaker 2: Your family out to. 00:12:48 Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know. It's hard because I don't know whether the NRL thought we've had such a strong season in. 00:12:55 Speaker 2: Terms of ratings and in terms of attendance overall. 00:12:59 Speaker 4: That they didn't need to go as hard in promoting the games, especially the Sydney games, but it really is disappointing. Like you can't go about being a $ 5 billion sport but then dish up 22,000 at ComBank. 00:13:14 Speaker 1: Absolutely. Very, very disappointing. Let's go back to that Souths versus Newcastle game. I thought the Knights were outstanding. South Sydney were bitterly disappointing. In my opinion, I thought they went into the finals with a lot of momentum. I thought they could really have given this comp one hell of a rattle along the way. They had Latrell back, they had all their injured players back, and they were just out enthused by this Newcastle side, which fear nobody, who have had to overcome their own injury dramas during the year. What did you make of South's exit, and how far can Newcastle go? 00:13:52 Speaker 4: This is a tough one because you could say Souths were disappointing, but the Knights were also really good. I think obviously once Cody Walker went down, then you sort of sense that, you know, that their chances were just about done. 00:14:08 Speaker 2: The Knights, I don't want. 00:14:10 Speaker 4: To say surprised me because they've been that tough, gritty team, but to go into that match without their starting props in Saifidi and Mooney, you know, Cody Hop would like, what, 20 years old, you know what I mean? Tyson Frizzell starts at prop. He also had one of his best games of the season. Jermaine McEwen played like an absolute madman. 00:14:31 Speaker 1: Where's he come from? He's a superstar, isn't he? He's a bulldozer. 00:14:35 Speaker 4: Both him and Francis Manu Lele-Uwa, who came in for Dylan Lucas, started their rugby league journeys at Penrith. So, you know, Penrith is a production factory and, you know, they've lost guys like Isaiah Katoa over the years. But, you know, looking at those two, you're probably thinking, oh, God, you'd love to have even at least one. 00:14:54 Speaker 2: So, look, across the board, I mean, Penrith, They're back three. Kalen Ponga was ridiculous. 00:14:58 Speaker 4: I wrote down some stats, 243 metres, 15 tackle bus. Like that's enormous from him. You know, Greg Mazu and Dom Young, eight tackle bus each. Mazu, 218 metres. Everybody in that team is lifting their weight. And you can tell in their performances, they're a happy side, they're a well-coached side. And they were always my team out of the top eight, sorry, out of the top four who could do something. 00:15:23 Speaker 2: I lost a bit of confidence in them once they. 00:15:25 Speaker 4: They had those injuries in the forward pack or outs in the forward pack. But I reckon they're a really good chance against the Warriors. 00:15:35 Speaker 1: Let's move on to a contentious moment. It was in the second half and Alex Johnson's made a break down the left side and McEwen comes across. The ball's fumbled, toe to head. I think Bud Sullivan scores. The referee said try, went upstairs. It was denied. The reason was that McEwen had come across. And rather than a loose carry– sorry, rather than a strip, you could see his arm touch the shoulder of Alex Johnson, and it was a loose carry from there. I think they got it right to the letter of the law. I know South's fans weren't happy. Wayne Bennett's blown up Deluxe at full time saying, blow up the entire bunker. Did they get it right? 00:16:14 Speaker 2: I think so. I think so. 00:16:17 Speaker 4: This is another one of those ones where– It really is a 50-50 call. Like if they'd gone the other way, you'd go, okay, yep, you can live with it. 00:16:24 Speaker 2: I think what. 00:16:25 Speaker 4: Saves McEwen and the bunker is the fact that the tackle did start with his arm on the shoulder. And at one point you could see his face isn't even necessarily looking at the ball. Yes, he ends up, you know, making contact with the ball, but it isn't the traditional strip motion that we've seen. 00:16:44 Speaker 2: And, you know, I can... It's another one. 00:16:47 Speaker 4: Like I'm happy with that call. Like I'm not like Wayne Bennett blowing up. But understandably for Wayne, it was a call

at a crucial point. So I get why he's annoyed. But having said that, he's been on a tirade against the bunker for, you know, for ages. 00:17:03 Speaker 1: I feel Wayne's pain because I've been bagging the bunker now, seems like for decades. And the bunker drives me mad sometimes. It drives me insane. But in the cold, hard light of day, when you take the emotion out of it and you just breathe again, we do need the bunker in our game. And that kills me to say it sometimes. 00:17:24 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:17:24 Speaker 1: The NRL claim, Fatima, and I don't see there being a need for them to tell any porcupines, that they get 98% right with the bunker. Yep. If we get rid of the bunker and we go back to one referee, sure as night follows days, within the first three or four rounds next year, hypothetically, of course, There'd be a million mistakes and all coaches would be blowing up and referees can't keep up with the speed of the game. So, look, I get Wayne's frustration, but I think the bunker should be here to stay. 00:17:54 Speaker 2: Well, this is the thing. 00:17:55 Speaker 4: The bunker is here to stay and people keep saying, you know, if a referee makes a call and it's the wrong one, you know, he's only a human, I can live with it. But the bunker isn't a robot. Yes, there's technology involved, but the person who's making the call is also– a human. So they're going to try their best to apply the rules to the letter of the law. 00:18:17 Speaker 2: And that's a lot of the frustrations, right? 00:18:19 Speaker 4: Because people say, oh, the bunker doesn't have the feel for the game. But there's so many camera angles. There's so many replays. The game is faster than ever. So you cannot have a situation where you've got one referee out there. 00:18:31 Speaker 2: Trying to keep on top of absolutely everything. 00:18:34 Speaker 4: And the thing is, people complain about the bunker, but they don't really offer any Like alternatives or solutions. You know, I wrote about this in the tackle and I don't know whether it's feasible, but, you know, maybe. 00:18:46 Speaker 2: We can have a similar system. 00:18:48 Speaker 4: Like VAR in the Premier League where the bunker is only just there to advise the on-field referee and then the on-field referee has a screen or a monitor that is looking at exactly what the bunker is looking at and ultimately they make the final call. 00:19:04 Speaker 1: Just because the referee says try, that doesn't mean the bunker has to agree all the time. People always say, oh, the referee said it's a try, it should be a try. That's what the bunker's there for, to make their own cause. They have to be independent of the referee, so to speak. Otherwise, there's no point having the bunker there. The referee says it's a try, we'll just run with the try. So they have to make their decision. I know that there's an influence there on what the referee has done, but it's up to the bunker to make their own independent decision based on the rules. 00:19:32 Speaker 2: Based on the rules. 00:19:33 Speaker 4: Which is why I think, especially if we're so concerned about the feel of the game, that you still have the bunker. But the call, the ultimate call is with the on-field referee who can get advice from the bunker. But the on-field referee themselves is looking at it. getting a chance to get a second look, and they make the final call on it. 00:19:55 Speaker 2: So, look, I don't know. Wayne Bennett wants it blown up. 00:19:58 Speaker 4: A few other, you know, big hitters in the game want it blown up, but I don't think it's going anywhere. 00:20:03 Speaker 1: The coaches that weren't blown up, to be fair, are normally the coaches that have just lost a very tight game through a bunker decision. So I certainly get their frustrations. Warriors v. Dolphins. I thought the Whas were actually quite disappointing. There's a lot of hype about them. Sellout Crote over there in Auckland. It was a heaving environment. The Dolphins were in their very first game of finals footy in what their fourth year, I think it is. And they go across there. They fall behind by eight points. And then they go bang. And Hammers involved. Herbie's a superstar and they come away with this, I guess you could call it an historic victory. 00:20:37 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:20:37 Speaker 1: What did you make of the game? And do you think the Waz attack was just a little bit off? Yes. 00:20:44 Speaker 4: I think by the fact that they opted to go up by two points, pretty much the whole game showed that. I don't know whether it was, you know, clearly they were hesitant. I don't know whether all of a sudden they've lost some confidence in their attack, which is, you know, remarkable when you think about it. Yeah. Yeah, it just was a little bit clunky. I think the start of the game, both teams really took a bit of time to get into that game. It was very stop-start. Both sides were very ill-disciplined. I think there were three sim bins in that game. So we didn't really get to see the best of either side. But you're right, once the Dolphins clicked, they're just such a fun team to watch. But All year we've praised the Warriors for how well they've been able to manage and handle. 00:21:30 Speaker 2: The hits that they've had to the halves. 00:21:32 Speaker 4: This was probably one of the first games where all of a sudden there is a spotlight on their halves because there's no doubt they didn't manage the last 10 minutes of that game. 00:21:40 Speaker 2: The last 15 minutes, great at all. 00:21:42 Speaker 4: Chanel Harris-Tavita putting a couple of kicks on the last that were just way too shallow, that were struggling to get out of their own territory. And they just didn't manage the end of that game well. leaky on the edges, especially in the last couple of weeks. Like the Dolphins just stripped them for numbers, especially in that last 20 minutes. 00:22:03 Speaker 2: So I'm a little bit worried about the Warriors. 00:22:05 Speaker

4: I think only seven days ago I was saying they're my favourite to win the title. Now watching them on the weekend and seeing how well the Knights and the confidence they're going to take to Eden Park, I now worry that they might be the team that comes out in straight sets this year. 00:22:19 Speaker 1: Okay, interesting comment. I must admit they're a bit disappointing for me as well. I need to find something and something very, very quickly. Now, uh, we'll touch on the final game, which was, uh, sharks, the cowboys. Um, I don't think anyone really have the cowboys too much of a chance to win. So the game went to, I guess you could say expectations, but I did think that that Braden Trindle was incredibly brave. Uh, he was clearly, um, hampered by his shoulder again. Um, I think he said post game, you just can't needle those injuries up because it doesn't work medically. Um, The Sharks, was there anything in there to convince you that they can go further and maybe to a prelim? 00:23:03 Speaker 2: No. 00:23:04 Speaker 4: Only because, look, I think they got a lot of confidence with Trindle being back and he was absolutely incredible. 00:23:10 Speaker 2: He kicked really well. 00:23:11 Speaker 4: He kept the Cowboys back three, you know, on the back foot the whole night. 00:23:17 Speaker 2: But the Cowboys, even though. 00:23:20 Speaker 4: They knew he was injured, particularly towards the end of the game where you could tell he was struggling with that shoulder. They didn't really run any traffic at him, and I think he only made eight or nine tackles in the end. The Roosters are not going to let him get away with that. So, you know, you shut down Braden Trindle, then I think you shut down Cronulla's chances with it. 00:23:38 Speaker 1: And what about the Cowboys? The team just couldn't catch a bomb, couldn't catch a kick. 00:23:43 Speaker 4: It was. 00:23:44 Speaker 1: It was almost becoming quite comical and farcical at one point. They must have put down eight, nine kicks, and every time a kick went up, you just knew they weren't going to catch it. Even Drinkwater, who's one of my favourite players, Drinky, he's a great player, but he seemed to have been down on confidence, and it was just fumbling and bumbling everything. 00:24:00 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a fumbling and bumbling game from the Cowboys. Again, 15 errors, gave away nine penalties, almost 50 missed tackles. 00:24:08 Speaker 2: We got the worst. 00:24:10 Speaker 4: Version of the Cowboys. We've seen good versions of them this year. We've seen bad versions of them this year. 00:24:15 Speaker 2: We didn't get the best version of them. 00:24:18 Speaker 1: Well, it's that time of the week again called BS Messages of the Week. If you've got anything that's bugging you, annoying you, or giving you the you-know-what's, Go to codesports.com.au and leave your message there and we will read it out. Now, this first one's a ripper. Are you ready? 00:24:35 Speaker 2: I'm ready. 00:24:36 Speaker 1: Because I had a blow with you off air about this. You come in every week with your coffee and you never offer to buy me one. 00:24:43 Speaker 2: Oh, you're making me sound like a titer. 00:24:45 Speaker 1: Well, that's what I'm insinuating, Fatima. Can you spend some of the millions that you earn at this mighty Daily Telegraph organisation and. 00:24:52 Speaker 2: Buy me a coffee? Some of the hundreds and hundreds of thousands. 00:24:54 Speaker 3: Yes, I will. 00:24:55 Speaker 1: Well, Adam's caught the eye of your coffee as well. And Adam's from Canberra. He says, I call BS on anything or is there anything in Fatima's coffee cup? Logo is the same spot each week. Is it just a prop? 00:25:08 Speaker 2: It's not just a prop. There's something in there. 00:25:10 Speaker 1: Adam, there's nothing in there. It is a prop. 00:25:11 Speaker 2: No, there is. Look, I'll take a sip. 00:25:13 Speaker 1: It's a prop. That's terrible acting, Fatima. That's just terrible. Yeah, there is something in there. You know what it is? 00:25:18 Speaker 4: It's honestly, well, the reason why there's logos everywhere is because there's cafe and cucina on both sides, and I've just butchered that Italian name of the cafe. And it's also a bit of like a pretty blanket thing, so I like to have it there. 00:25:33 Speaker 3: All right. 00:25:34 Speaker 1: We've all got our nuances in life, Fatima. I've got millions of them. Let's move on to the second one. Brad of Chatswood writes in, Fatima, an incidental crusher, which he puts in inverted commas, is still a crusher. Trent Robinson said it himself. How does the bunker not know what a crusher tackle is? Well, I think the bunker does know, Brad, to be fair. But what I will say is you speak to the players and they are– so hesitant about where to put their body weight in tackles because a lot of time the crushers are just when there's three, sometimes even four in a tackle, your body weight's got to land somewhere. If it lands on his back, well, then you're penalised. So I can tell you, Brad, that players are very confused about how to navigate each tackle because of this sort of black cloud of a crusher which hangs over every tackle. 00:26:26 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, we don't really, and thankfully, we don't see that deliberate crusher anymore where players are sort of losing their knees to put pressure on a player's neck and back. But like you said, the way that players twist and turn in tackles these days, the ball carrier, you do get situations where, yeah, it is going to be incidental and then it's up to the referee and then the match review community to decide how dangerous was that incidental crusher tackle. 00:26:53 Speaker 1: Well, there you go, Brad. That is the best answer we can give you. Adam, thanks for your email. Hopefully there's a cup of coffee in front of me next week, which Fatima will pay for. But, look, thanks so much for watching. We really appreciate it. Have a great week. Be a great weekend of looming finals yet again, and we'll see you next Monday.