ABOUT THIS EPISODE

As promised, here is the bonus Q&A Episode for Season 1. You might think, "How could anyone finish a season of a podcast like Cocaine & Rhinestones and have questions? That guy saturates every episode with details like he's getting paid by the fact." There's always more to know. Just remember, don't ask a question if you don't want the answer. From the FAQs down to the minutiae of, well, whatever anyone wanted to know, it's all here. Like, how does one even go about making a podcast on such a huge subject as the history of country music? Whose "fault" is pop country, really? Is this Merle Haggard song communist? Is that Merle Haggard song racist? There had to be more men banned from country radio, right? One at a time, people. One at a time... Who's ready to learn some stuff? Let's do it.

Source

English
United States
explicit content

TRANSCRIPT

00:00:00It's weird how quickly become used to something huh Three months of cocaine in rhinestones every week and one week without it brings on the withdrawal symptoms it did for me at least anyway i'm happy to be talking to you again right up top i need to say to
00:00:15anyone who pressed play on this because it's the most recent episode what you're hearing right now is not in any way representative off this podcast This is just a bonus episode a little nightcap for everyone who already listened to the first season and wanted a bit more to
00:00:32see what this show is really all about You'll want to go back before this if you start the first episode and you're not sure about it maybe check out a newer one like number twelve on wynonna judd or number thirteen on rusty and doug kershaw Those are good
00:00:46standalone examples of where the podcast is that now now that i figured out what i'm doing if you like it you will want to go back to the beginning for the full picture because it's all connected all right everyone else we've got some unfinished business you and i
00:01:02Somewhere near the beginning of all this i had the bright idea of suggesting listeners could send in questions and i would answer them at the end of the season what i didn't know was how many people were going to hear me say that and what i didn't think
00:01:16about was how little time i was giving myself to come up with answers on all these different topics then record and added and everything else but if you're listening to this then that must mean i got it done right two things saved me the first thing is that
00:01:32many people sent in questions as the season wasn't progress and those questions were answered in the content of later episodes i did try to respond to all of those e mails and make sure everyone felt like their questions were answered so there's no reason to get into them
00:01:48today if anyone feels like they're question wasn't answered and isn't answered here you can go to cocaine and rhinestones dot com to try searching for a key word related to your question the liner notes for every episode are included in the transcript in every block post on the
00:02:05web site so all that stuff is searchable if you still can't find your answer sent me another email it's possible i missed it the second thing that saved me was the vast majority of the questions i received were variations of the same four or five questions if every
00:02:22email i got included a unique question that needed an answer i'd have been screwed so hard so here's how this is going to go down i said you could ask me anything about individual episodes the whole podcast me my life whatever what makes sense to me is to
00:02:39start by answering those most common questions First general enquiries about me or the entire show then moved through questions that relate to individual episodes in the order Those episodes came out for example the tom t hall episode was the ninth episode of the podcast and it had an
00:02:57intro that explored some ideas about country music radio If someone sent in one question about country music radio i'll probably answer that with the rest of the tom t hall questions The next episodes were on buck owens and don rich so i'll talk about them after the tom
00:03:14t hall stuff If anyone sent in a question about reincarnation or soap commercials which they did not i would talk about those at the same time as dawn and buck before we get started One of the last things you heard from me was about how i set up
00:03:29a patriotic paid for the podcast how it was a necessary step to take in order to keep the podcast alive All i can say is wow thank you so much for getting on board with that right away i don't know what i did to deserve all of you
00:03:43you're amazing if this is the first anyone is hearing about it please check it out at patriot dot com slash tyler may hand co or you could just go to cocaine and rhinestones dot com and click the big red support button in the main menu speaking of cocaine
00:04:00and rhinestones dotcom this q and a episode will have a block post on the web site with a full transcript of everything just like a regular episode here we go this is not the question i received the most but if the question i know i'm going to get
00:04:16the most in the next several months which is when does season to come out I've already answered this elsewhere but maybe i can cut down on it a little bit by repeating here i don't know i have to make it first I've never made the first season of
00:04:30a podcast before which took me seven months and i've never made the second season of a podcast before which i don't expect to take us long how much more quickly i can create the second season than the first is really anybody's guess i don't want to give anything
00:04:45like an estimated release date or even a release month and then hit an unexpected setback please know that i will be working obsessively on it from now until the time you hear it hands down The most common email sent in was are you going to do an episode
00:05:03on fill in the blank artist again I've already answered this in the liner notes somewhere in the middle of the season but due to how many people asked it's worth repeating yes i'm in this for the long haul We're doing the history of twentieth century country music for
00:05:19riel here if you've heard of them if there are enough reputable sources i can use to put the story together if you haven't heard me flat out say no i'm probably not doing that one then you can expect to hear those stories that may not mean everyone gets
00:05:34their own episode but i intend to do what i can for as many people as possible for everyone who's asked when i'll do an episode on the big names like johnny cash and waylon jennings i hear you i get it Of course you're going to hear about those
00:05:48people I have to talk about johnny cash quite a bit today in fact but i do have to think about this like a long running tv siri's i can't put all that stuff up front and then say okay now who's ready to hear about dallas fraser good storytelling
00:06:03involves pacing yourself i'm telling a lot of individual stories but it all comes together as one massive story ah history and i have to tell it in a way that keeps people listening that also means i need to find a way to tell the hank sr story in
00:06:19a way that it hasn't been told before which is not going to be easy and is going to take some time One variation on that last question was whether or not i intend to do an episode on this artist or that artist because you're not sure if i
00:06:35consider that person a country artist people want to know if i'll talk about folk musician singer songwriters all country acts cow punk bands et cetera i'm not sure how many of these emails came in before the person who sent them heard the bobbie gentry episode as you heard
00:06:53me say there i don't think bobbie gentry ever even thought of herself as a country artist yet the episode on her was the first one that came close to two hours in duration which is my approximate maximum length for one episode so you can see it's really not
00:07:09so much important whether an artist is or isn't a country artist as it is important that they are relevant to country music in the nineteen hundreds whatever you wanna call bobbie gentry's music there is no denying her importance to the genre of country music if it led to
00:07:26came from or intersected with country music i think it's relevant for what it's worth as far as cocaine and rhinestones is concerned i regard my own opinion about what is and isn't country music as totally worthless this will never be about setting the record straight once and for
00:07:43all about what really country music is you'll have to go to someone else for that it's interesting how many people want to know what i think about mike judge's tv show tales from the tour bus i have spoken about that a little bit in public but i've since
00:07:59told a friend of mine that i would stop what i'll say here is that i believe the reason so many people thought to ask my opinion is they can see a clear difference between what i'm doing and what that tv show is doing it's possible that i simply
00:08:14want that to be the reason why it was such a common question but i think if anyone asked my judge what he thinks about my podcast he'd probably say he hasn't heard it and i would probably be true but if he had heard it i'm sure he would
00:08:28agree it's different i'm thrilled by how many of you wrote to ask when i'll have cocaine and rhinestones merchandise available for sale the short answer is as soon as i can the longer answer is that it depends on a few things it's something i really want to do
00:08:45the artwork is amazing the logo is amazing Shoutout to rachel at pony gold studio in australia for her phenomenal work mainly i need to get something set up toe where i'm not the one spending time fulfilling orders that's time i need to spend making the podcast The other
00:09:02thing is i'm not interested in slapping the name on the cheapest shirts and hats around with crappy screen prints and all of that i want good shit I've been trying to make your favorite podcasts so i need to try to make your favorite shirt or your favorite hat
00:09:17to go along with it Doing anything the right way takes time but this is a priority for me okay Those were all of the most frequently asked questions now we'll get into some more specific questions mostly about the show overall and a couple about myself Andrea hendricks from
00:09:37ohio wants to know what made me decide on the topics slash musicians of each episode justin writes my favorite quirk of the podcast is the fact that all of these artists kept running into each other It was like a new marvel cinematic universe that i had no context
00:09:54for was that planned from the beginning or did that happen through the research and reality of the small world of country music Thank you andrea and justin for the questions country music is a small world although i'm sure my approach to a version of this podcast and the
00:10:12pop or rock world would have justus many run ins between the characters what it really comes down to is you have to start somewhere once you define the parameters of your topic country music from the year nineteen owe one to the year two thousand the very first decision
00:10:28is do you try to go in chronological order that seemed like a terrible idea to me for dozens of reasons but pertinent to this question okay we're in the year nineteen no one is this where the seed of country music sprouted is this where it all started Of
00:10:45course not we have to go back at least as far as the middle ages for that so we're already failing at a chronological timeline and probably confusing the hell out of everyone in the process because nobody has any frame of reference to tie the middle ages backto whatever
00:11:02is happening in the year we're supposed to be starting from nineteen o one so forget chronological order what's the real beginning of the story of country music no matter what year or decade or century it is it's a kid throwing away a normal life to become a singer
00:11:18that's ernest tubb how do you write yourself into that story release a song that makes everyone lose their minds and be the person who knew that it would that's loretta lynn who's the antagonised what's the conflict in this story it's fame and fortune not being able to save
00:11:36you from your demons that spade cooley these three storeys slap us upside the head with those themes and telling them the right way begins building a world once you're in that world you khun spread out in all directions at once introducing new themes connecting the dots building mohr
00:11:55of this world that's what happens over the course of the rest of the season in the only way that made sense to me and what we're talking about is why this show has to be presented in seasons rather than a constant cycle of producing and releasing episodes one
00:12:10at a time creating a group of episodes I can at least try to present these interactions and expansions in a way that strengthens the story and our understanding of this world If i do it one episode at a time there's nowhere for me to stand back and see
00:12:26the bigger picture before i show it to everyone else Chad evans rights i'm curious what podcasts are your influences it hits me is a cross between radio lab and hard core history Kathy wants to know what my favorite podcasts are thank you both chat and cathy for writing
00:12:46i'm pretty sure the first podcast i ever heard was radio lab it wasn't really my thing at the time i did get into it for a while a few years later but it being the first podcast i heard essentially informed my idea of what a podcast is another
00:13:03one i heard early on would have been freakonomics these air both very produced podcast they have a whole team of people making every episode they do a lot of interviews and have a lot of music and sound effects you can hear in my show that i like those
00:13:17ideas karina longworth makes a podcast called you must remember this where she tells classic stories about hollywood actors and the movie business i'm not really into most of that podcast but i did like her siri's on charles manson i was actually listening to that for a second time
00:13:36when i had the realization that nobody was making a podcast about the history of country music i'm pretty sure i ordered a microphone within a week of that you could say these podcast were all somewhat of an influence on cocaine and rhinestones however i will never forget hearing
00:13:54paul harvey tell the rest of the story on the radio when i was a kid feeling like i'd just been clued into some real insider knowledge by someone who knew exactly what they were talking about i will never forget riding through the night to the next town with
00:14:09the driver listening toe art bell's coast to coast am i haven't heard that particular show in years but i am aware that it's gotten extremely political when i was young it was a late night show where art would add people to call in with their psychic experiences or
00:14:26alien abduction stories ghost stories conspiracy theories people who thought they're cats were talking to them the wildest shit you ever heard on the radio and they all sounded completely serious especially being a child staring out the windshield that the headlights meeting the darkness on the road ahead of
00:14:43us it was like we driven straight into the twilight zone where who even knows maybe these people are right in the entire universe is magical and insane from the beginning my goal for cocaine and rhinestones was to strike the perfect middle ground between those two old school radio
00:15:02shows the hard facts of the rest of the story meet that other dimension of coast to coast am as for what podcast i liketo listen to well i don't really get to listen to them anymore because i now spend all of that time working on my own just
00:15:19tonight i realized that i haven't watched a tv show or a movie since october which is a pretty big deal for me because i'm the kind of person where every day is a struggle to not spend the entire day watching movies if i press play on something now
00:15:34it's usually sam harris is waking up podcast that's going to be more political than many people probably want to hear and i should specify that i've frequently disagree with things said on that show but they are almost always having very intelligent conversations on complicated subjects if you enjoy
00:15:52thinking for yourself and hearing smart people talk to each other helps that happen for you then you may want to check that out i like you made it weird with pete holmes if the guest is someone who interests me i'm a lifelong fan of stand up comedy but
00:16:07i'm also sick of listening to comedians talk to each other about stand up comedy so the guest has to be a good one How did this get made is a podcast where three people watch bad movies and talk about them it's some of the funniest shit i've ever
00:16:22heard and it was a big influence on the other podcast i'm involved with your favorite band sucks which by the way i would obviously recommend you check out your favorite band socks there are some other podcast i got into for a while and then got sick of like
00:16:37lower and hidden brain if you like war hard core history is great i don't really like war and some of those stories were interesting enough to keep me listening for seven hours or however long his episodes are riley from lawrenceburg tennessee asked what music genres do you listen
00:16:57to besides country music Thank you for the question riley i'm one of those people with un immaculately organized itunes collection and i've got about seven hundred fifty artist in they're categorized into fifteen genres that may or may not make sense to other people going in alphabetical order first
00:17:16there's ambient slash drone slash electronica this is everything from kraftwerk to steve reich to auto checker avant garde is where i have demonic a loss this heat moon doggie honest anarchists probably just butchered that cat's name whatever blues i really like howlin wolf light and hopkins scrapper blackwell
00:17:39otis rush elmore james you get the point classical i've got mauler stravinsky beethoven country slash folk obviously though most of my stuff here is on vinyl instead of the computer dreams last post is where i put everything that is in some way otherworldly or post some other genre
00:18:00Some of my favorites here would be kate bush serge gainsbourg disco inferno suicide roxy music dub slash funk slash salsa slash soul doesn't mean i think this all sounds the same but when i want to listen to one eye usually want to listen to the others so it's
00:18:17altogether here you've got curtis mayfield fail a cootie funkadelic orchestra harlow etcetera guitar is self explanatory khaki king frank zappa john fahey al di meola hard rock slash metal slash punk is the stooges bots converge all that stuff hip hop slash rap is basically just nineties rap for
00:18:40newer stuff i pretty much just listen to these guys the hood internet who do amazing mash up that's how i find out what's new jazz is charles mingus thelonious monk alice coltrane pops last rock is all the mainstream stuff beach boys rolling stones david bowie neil young etcetera
00:18:58prague slash psych is ah lot of sixties and seventies weirdness like captain beefheart can the soft boys silver apples score slash soundtrack is a big genre for me pretty much just because of ennio morricone e i'd listen to that guy every day until i die but have a
00:19:16lot of other stuff in there too and finally singer songwriter which i guess to me is just a different listening vibe than country or folk music so that's why i have it separate here you got gene clark solo albums bob dylan leonard cohen townes van zandt you know
00:19:33scott from denver rights i know this is a random ask question but did you tell the story about jim dandy from black oak arkansas on a goat snake album Thanks for asking scott if anyone else thinks that sounds like me talking and was wondering the same thing i'm
00:19:49sorry to tell you that it is not me however i can confirm that ifyou've ever heard any insane story about jim dandy that you think has to be too crazy to be true you're wrong it's true trey rights i'm wondering about your audience and its various demographics what
00:20:08stands out to you as a surprising aspect of your audience If anything do you notice any patterns Well trade this is a damned interesting question and i'm glad you asked because it gave me an excuse to poke around in the analytics This is something else bench too much
00:20:24time on so i haven't been letting myself do it I don't pay for the big statistics package with my audio file host but doing the block post and transcripts on the site sends a ton of traffic there so i can look at the google analytics to see what's
00:20:40going on Oh and i want to be clear about this for anyone who has no experience with this stuff i'm about to say some things like where my audience lives and what languages they speak and what they're interested in This is all completely anonymous ized information I have
00:20:55no idea who you are or what other websites you're looking at or anything like that Any website that you go to khun see this stuff i'm not doing anything weird First referrals are the lowest source of traffic to the website What that means is just a little over
00:21:11ten percent of the first time visitors to cocaine and rhinestones dot com ended up there because of some other website talking about the podcast that's because the podcast has received no attention from the mainstream media except for a podcast of the week pick from the guardian in england
00:21:30and that just happened yesterday but it's also because of how many people are telling their friends aboutthe show i'd estimate that well over fifty percent of the new visitor traffic to the website is a direct result of one person telling one other person about the podcast as i
00:21:47will never stop saying i can't thank everyone enough for doing that word of mouth has been everything for me Most listeners are in english speaking countries of course but i have a significant percentage of people from germany the netherlands finland and sweden which is not a surprised him
00:22:05me as country music is very popular in all of those places this is probably a surprise Mohr of my listeners are in new york city than in any other city in the world Nashville is second then atlanta dallas chicago seattle austin london houston although the state with the
00:22:26most listeners is texas followed by california then tennessee georgia new york north carolina and then all the midwest states you'd expect ages eighteen to twenty four represent the smallest percentage of listeners Not a surprise to me Most listeners are ages thirty five to forty four with twenty five
00:22:46to thirty four right behind that close to eighty percent dudes which i think is right on trend for the entire podcast medium but i would love to have more ladies listening Someone should at least tell all the murder reno's out there about the spade cooley episode affinity categories
00:23:04are entertainment and celebrity news music lovers green living enthusiasts art and theatre aficionados avid investors political news junkies book lovers movie lovers and outdoor enthusiast And it looks like my audience is always on the go staying in a lot of hotels probably a lot of musicians and touring
00:23:25bands fans travelling to concerts and festivals things like that so yeah nothing too surprising to me but maybe some surprises for people who think this podcast on ly appeals to ooh existing country music fans and also believes there you types about those fans that was the last of
00:23:45the general questions we will now get into the stuff that relates to individual episodes Ryan from nova scotia canada writes You briefly referenced hank snow and some sort of impact or correlation ernest tubb had on the hank snow story but never mentioned it again in the episode I'm
00:24:05curious as to what that story is all about Thank you for writing ryan i'm sure you're already aware but for everyone else hank snow was also from nova scotia canada it's a story i have every intention of giving the full cocaine and rhinestones treatment but like ernest tubb
00:24:22hank snow was obsessed with jimmie rodgers He had a little success with country music up in canada pretty much copying jimmie rogers just like ernest tubb started out doing hank decided to see what he could make happen in the united states and moved here in nineteen forty for
00:24:39but it didn't really work out he couldn't make any progress anywhere he went and he often had to go back home to canada toe pool enough money together to move somewhere else in the us and give it another shot remember walking the floor hit in nineteen forty and
00:24:54ernest tubb was on the grand ole opry from nineteen forty three on So when hank got toe open for ernest at a texas show in nineteen forty nine it was a pretty big deal for him especially because everyone knew how much ernest hub loved jimmy rodgers and hank
00:25:11snow had a son named jimmy rogers so they bonded over their love of jimmie rodgers and earnest started trying to get hank on the grand ole opry The opry was not interested but ernest kept trying He recorded a song that hank road called my filipino rose finally after
00:25:29nearly an entire year of trying ernest got hank snow onto the grand ole opry it didn't go well but that's another story we heard a little bit from johnny paycheck in this episode so i'll feel the question about him now adam sheets rights i know that johnny paycheck
00:25:48performed a show while incarcerated at chill a coffee prison merle haggard came out to introduce him maybe perform a few songs with him and billy don burns wrote a song specifically for the show i've seen a few clips which appeared to be sorts from an ancient vhs and
00:26:05i believe i've heard the show was recorded and meant to be released as an lp do you know why that didn't happen and who owns the master recordings now adam thanks so much for the question you are in luck i do have some answers for you for years
00:26:21this was one of those stories where we only had bits and pieces in twenty sixteen billy don burns gave the full story or at least his side of it which seems legit to me to outlaw magazine once they got the green light to record in our prison merle
00:26:37haggard was brought in and hank cochran came through with a big chunk of money that was needed to make it all happen that left hank as the owner of the recording at this time merle haggard would have been with epic records which was owned by sony who was
00:26:53represented by an attorney named joel katz who if anyone doesn't know is not a guy you ever want to fuck with All of a sudden billy don and hank cochran are dealing with a lawsuit from sony handled by joel katz and hank gets free doubt shelves the tapes
00:27:10even after merl left epic which according to billy don was a direct result of sony filing this lawsuit which went away when moral left epic hank remained too skittish to do anything with the tapes I don't think anyone will be surprised to learn that i got several emails
00:27:29regarding the episode on the pill clint doris writes I was just curious if it was possible that any of the male producers were also in on loretta's banning you paint her as a wise woman who knew what she was doing and there is no doubt about that but
00:27:46could all these men have been so dumb over and over again I'm very glad that you sent in this question clint because if i gave anyone else the impression that this was the case i need to make it clear that it was not of course her producers were
00:28:00not stupid this was not a situation where loretta lynn was constantly defying the wishes of everyone on her team and keeping everyone in the dark maybe the first time it was an accident they didn't realise some people would think they done something outrageous but when those sales figures
00:28:16came in i have to assume they all reach the same conclusion at the same time this is a button we should keep pushing because every time we do more money comes out of the machine I did have two songs suggested to me as examples of male artist being
00:28:33banned from country radio in the nineteen hundreds Both of them were songs that i knew about and i'll give my reasons for not including them in just a sec However even if we did add them to the other songs banned by men the total would still be fewer
00:28:49than singles Loretta lynn had banned on her own and nowhere near the number of songs by all women in twentieth century country music My friend rodeo wrote in big bad john by jimmy dean was banned on radio simply because of the use of the term one hell of
00:29:06a man changed to a big big man i'm always glad to hear from rodeo as he mentioned the line one hell of a man was changed to ah big big man after radio stations informed jimmy dean that they were getting complaints This is all near the end of
00:29:24the year nineteen sixty one When it got to the point that the station's told jimmy they were gonna have to stop playing the song he simply went back in the studio cut a version with a new lyric there sent that to radio and kept right on getting airplay
00:29:39so in the episode when i say that i'm not talking about men who released radio edits of songs i'm grouping this song in with those as an early instance of a radio edit while the song did cause some controversy i don't think it's fair to say it was
00:29:56outright band when radio programmers were in communication with jimmy and his team working together to find a solution to keep the song on the airwaves that's much different than what happened with the pill and nearly every other band song from a woman troy king wrote to say in
00:30:16nineteen sixty four johnny cash released the ballad of ira hayes it was banned by radio to the point that cash took out a full page ad in billboard calling out country radio and challenging them to play the song if you haven't read the ad it is a hoot
00:30:32thank you for writing troy i agree with you the ad is a hoot it's too long and rambling to read the entirety of it here but i'll have a link to it in the block post for this episode here are a few key parts quote djs station managers
00:30:48owners et cetera where are your guts I know many of you are top forty top fifty or what have you so a few of you khun disregard this protest and that is what it is and quote he rambles a lot about how much the song is selling and
00:31:03how important it is quote some of you top forty djs went all out for this at first thanks anyway maybe the program director or station manager will reconsider this ad go ahead and call it that cost like hell would you or those pulling the strings for you go
00:31:21to the mic with a new approach that is listen again to the record and quote more rambling about why they should reconsider because of the song's appeal and important out side of country music alone quote i blow my horn now just this once then no more since i've
00:31:38said these things now i find myself not caring if the record is programmed or not i won't ask you to cram it down their throats but as an american who is almost a half breed cherokee mohawk and who knows what else i had to fight back when i
00:31:52realised that so many stations are afraid of ira hayes just one question why end quote that is a great question why there is however ah lot more than meets the eye here According to robert hilburn pop music critic and the author of a biography on johnny cash it
00:32:13was john's own record label that refused to throw any promotional wait behind this song once cash hired a third party promotion company radio stations that weren't playing the song started playing it they would not have done that if the song was band with that in mind reading the
00:32:32billboard letter again makes some things pop out cash doesn't call anyone out by name for not playing the song he starts by asking all the deejay station managers and owners where their guts are then he lets anyone who wants to believe they're one of the good ones off
00:32:50the hook by including that bit about how some djs did play the song see he knows he's about to dump a bunch of money into independent promotional efforts so he can't very well call all these people bastards and then expect them to play his song so he's railing
00:33:06against all these major stations who are outraged by this song knowing that they really aren't therefore none of them will read this letter and feel that cash is speaking to or about them it's a strong pr move kick up a bunch of meaningless dust in advance of a
00:33:22real promo push include a call to arms for everyone to reevaluate the song that way when the radio promo works and everyone starts hearing this song on the radio it looks like wow that letter really made something happen it makes us feel like we really want to fight
00:33:38against the system troy also asked me to explain how and why johnny cash got dropped by columbia and then exacted revenge with music's greatest comeback ever i believe i touched on the how and why part in the intro to the tom t hall episode and i actually need
00:33:57to talk about the johnny cash comeback in response to a another questions so i'll get to that in just a few minutes i think we all now know much more than we ever thought we wanted to know about spade cooley but nathan done is a young british writer
00:34:13who hopes to write something about ella mae cooley if anyone has sources that may be useful to him other than what i cited in my episode on spade please contact me with that information and i'll be sure to get it to nathan he's also asked to hear more
00:34:29of my thoughts regarding the separation of art and artist this is never unease e conversation because it's such a personal thing for every single one of us i refused to criticize anyone for not being able to separate art from artist and i refuse to criticize anyone who does
00:34:47choose two separate art from artois provided the art is not inherently wicked or intended to inspire further unacceptable behavior I know for some people who can't separate art from artist it's not even a conscious decision it's more like an instinctual physical revulsion and i think i understand that
00:35:06for others it seems to be on ideological thing and i'm often curious to hear where and how they draw the line though again it's never something i would criticize or try to argue against or debate or even play devil's advocate with on a level of personal interaction for
00:35:24myself i don't know howto have a hard and fast rule The music business is especially difficult because of how many individual people contribute toe every work If you do have a hard time separating art from artist you might want to skip ahead about thirty seconds right now Okay
00:35:44what do we do about phil spector He's one of the greatest music producers ever and made major creative contributions in his work with legendary artist who did nothing wrong He's literally responsible for assembling the wrecking crew But he's also a convicted murderer with a shocking history of abusing
00:36:04women What do you do with that to remove from my life All of the music he had a hand in creating is simply not an option for me On the other hand there are some artists who i would never be able to enjoy regardless of how talented they
00:36:20may be This is more common with people who are still alive still creating and releasing new work still profiting from the sale of that work I think most people have a line that can't be crossed maybe even i hope that most people have that line I think the
00:36:35reason i'm usually interested to hear other people talk about where their line is is that i don't know exactly where mine is or how to define it mark wrote in to ask if i have a source for my claim that bob dylan hated bobbie gentry song ode to
00:36:53billie joe he says writing clothes line saga as an answer song doesn't seem to me evidence that he hated the song In fact it always felt to me like an affectionate and whimsical parody Mark thank you so much for this awesome question i want to say upfront you
00:37:10could be right i could be wrong I do not have a quote from bob dylan saying he hated the song or anything like that i believe i said he apparently hates the song While it is possible that hate is too strong of a word it may not be
00:37:26and i do believe there are enough things we can put together to show that the general consensus among his fans which is that he does not have much affection for the song is probably accurate And i should say that i like so many others and a bob dylan
00:37:41fanatic if any of what i'm about to say sounds like i'm running him down i'm not I'll also point out that i'm pretty sure bob dylan has even called ode to billie joe ah great song on his fantastic theme time radio our show which by the way was
00:37:58another influence on my podcast If anyone hasn't heard that now bob dylan is a mercurial character on a day to day basis a decade to decade basis across the board everyone has an idea of who he is and we are all certainly wrong but he's always struck me
00:38:18as a defensive person very critical of others particularly artist particularly artist who are receiving praise that dylan thinks should all go to him even though he's been called the greatest everything there ever were wass since the nineteen sixties That doesn't stop him decades later in the moment of
00:38:38accepting a major award from using that acceptance speech to criticise the work of other writers like tom t hall that's a clear indication in my opinion of a personality type and there is no shortage of similar examples from any phase of his career Look at how obsessed he
00:38:56becomes with the media's attention to donovan in the documentary don't look back dylan will also tell you that he doesn't read or care about his bad reviews he will tell you this so often and with such a detailed response to what was in those reviews that it is
00:39:13painfully obvious he does in fact read the reviews again see that musicares person of the year speech an answer song is not inherently a parody of the original song however closed line saga is clearly a parody which automatically puts us on a scale of mockery anywhere between gentle
00:39:33teasing to unadulterated spite if we pretend the song isn't a parody of another song and judge it on its own clothes line saga and nearly aggressively goes nowhere It's a rambling nonsensical narrative with a person telling us a bunch of random on important things being that it is
00:39:53a parody of another song and applying some of the rules of satire which i present in the okie from moscow qi episode we can assume this meaningless meandering intercut with small talk between the townsfolk is what dylan saw in oda billie joe and wanted to amplify in his
00:40:11parody of it I don't see how it would be possible to think of oda billy joe in that way while also thinking of it as a great song This combined with what i stated i believe about dylan's personality and what we know about his very contentious relationship with
00:40:29the press is one reason i think his praise for oda billy joe was based in ulterior motives He knows most people think he wrote clothes line saga from a place of hatred he knows that makes him look jealous and in secure he goes on the radio and says
00:40:45some stuff that's supposed to let us know we're all wrong and we don't understand him even if we're not wrong and we do Another reason is that clothes line saga was recorded within two months of oda billy joe becoming a hit song that's practically a knee jerk reaction
00:41:03I doubt he spent very much time at all analyzing the lyrics or thinking about the nuances in the song the entire country would have been obsessing over this song when dylan recorded his parody of it At the very least my money would be on him thinking it was
00:41:20overrated unworthy of the rapid sensation it became in america and worth knocking down a peg or two It may be fair to say that clothes line saga is maura parity of the reaction to ode to billie joe then it is a parody of the song itself but i
00:41:37do believe the primary motivation was jealousy over seeing a young woman called a genius songwriter because of a song dylan didn't think was that special i hope it's obvious to everyone that i'm not saying anyone who disagrees with me is objectively wrong It seems most people think bob
00:41:56dylan hates oda billie joe and i think those people are correct tim from watertown wisconsin has several questions and i can answer a couple first he reminds me that i said bobbie gentry zod to billy joe is not a country song and asked what i consider it to
00:42:15be instead and why thank you for the question to him some other people have asked me why i said bobby didn't make country music it didn't seem controversial to me at all when i said it i still believe if we could ask her then she would flat out
00:42:32say that it was never her intention to make country music I believe calling her a country music artist is extremely reductive i also don't think we have a word for what oh dead billy joe is if it didn't have those strings in it it would almost certainly be
00:42:48considered a folk song but jimmy haskell's overdubs transform it into something else i don't think there's another song anything like it and i don't think there ever will be so there's never been a category invented for that i would say bobby herself is equally unclassifiable a truly unique
00:43:07artist i mean in that episode kate bush was the closest reference point i could come up with to explain something bobby had done I would be amazed if kate bush is ever mentioned on cocaine and rhinestones again which is a testament to how far outside the box i
00:43:23see bobbie gentry being tim also wants to know how i feel about ageism in country music what do i think of comeback efforts by artists because in his opinions some of the music recorded after the peak of their original career is brilliant he mentions johnny cash is american
00:43:43recordings and loretta lynn's van leer rose i should start by saying of course i think johnny cash is american recordings and loretta's van lier rose are outstanding but the only honest answer i can give here is that i've seen it go both ways i wouldn't want to put
00:43:59a percentage on it and i'm not going to give any examples of it going wrong but when it does go right it really is great historically the country music establishment especially country radio has not been kind to the old guard and i find that pretty disgusting if the
00:44:17quality of the music declines yeah don't play it but here's something i don't think a lot of people realise about that johnny cash come back you've got a big deal producer attached in rick rubin right then you add in this novel concept of an old school country legend
00:44:35recording a lot of covers of pop and rock and metal and whatever else pretty interesting yeah not according to country radio second time around they bring in tom petty and the heartbreakers to be his band plus half of fleetwood mac for a song album does even worse third
00:44:53album they don't even bother releasing a single it's not until the fourth of the american recordings all of which were great that you get to hurt and we all know what happened there but country radio practically had to be embarrassed into playing johnny cash through how often he
00:45:10was by then appearing on best albums of the year list in rock magazines it would be a joke if it were even slightly funny before moving on I would love to recommend to everyone listening to this they check out guy clarks two thousand two album the dark okay
00:45:29i got maurey males about the okie from muskogee episode than any other episode i'd estimate that ninety eight percent of the overall response to this podcast has been positive I'd estimate that seventy five percent of that other two percent has been due to things i said about merle
00:45:48haggard in this episode and others this isn't something i'm going to spend a lot of time on here because i doubt many of those people are listening to this None of the people who got mad at me and told me i'm wrong backed it up with a single
00:46:02source i presented facts cited by sources was very clear about what was my own opinion and how i reached it using those objective facts people have political biases people have emotional attachments that things they've been told by people they care about but if you care about understanding that
00:46:21song more than you care about winning an argument i would urge you to go back and listen to the episode again One of the goals of this podcast is to get the story right The reason that's important is because of how often we have the story wrong that's
00:46:37why you hear me say as far as i can tell here's the truth about this story at the beginning of every episode i want to tell the truth so if you think i'm wrong about something don't complain about it prove it that is my response to most of
00:46:55the okie from moscow b e mail lt's here are some individual questions about merle that still need to be answered jesse martin asked if i can please explain the merle haggard song rain boast too thank you for asking jesse i'm not sure that i or anyone else can
00:47:12explain that song but i'll talk about some themes i see in it and i'll talk about why we're probably not meant tohave a concrete explanation for it If anyone hasn't heard the song you should probably go listen to it similar to okie from moscow g even the way
00:47:28the song is performed implies there's something going on here rainbow stew is way more over the top i don't think everyone was drunk when he recorded it but it sure sounds that way and i think it's supposed to it seems obvious to me that the song is about
00:47:44creating a utopia on earth god showed a rainbow to noah as a promise that he would never again destroy all life on earth with a flood in irish folklore a leper con hides his pot of gold at the end of a rainbow but everyone knows there's no such
00:48:00thing as the end of a rainbow you cannot touch a rainbow you cannot hold a rainbow these rainbow ideas are nice but if that's all if you're planning on eating for dinner tonight then you're going to bed hungry just as worldwide war being over and done and free
00:48:16beer for everyone are nice ideas even promises made by various political ideologies but we've yet to see any evidence of humanity's ability to reach this idyllic way of life However this doesn't mean this song is intended as satire singing about things that would be wonderful even though plenty
00:48:36of people believe they can never happen sure sounds to me on awful lot like gospel music you'll find this exact same setup in any gospel song concerning the kingdom of heaven coming to earth it's something people have been gathering in rooms and singing about for hundreds of years
00:48:53waiting for it to happen hoping it will happen rainbow stew has the potential to be be this just as much as it has the potential to be making fun of this the sense of intoxication i hear in the performance is not necessarily sarcastic people become intoxicated in religious
00:49:13settings all of the time colossal alia a k a speaking in tongues for example it's possible that rainbow stew is meant as sort of a secular gospel song But i would say it's almost certainly meant to appeal toe listeners who would interpret it either way because that's what
00:49:30great songwriters do they create something specific enough to make us invested but open enough to interpretation that we confined our own meaning in our own way to relate I feel like i need to remind everyone that this was one hundred percent not merle haggard's intention in writing okie
00:49:47from muskogee as evidence we have his own statements immediately following the release of the song as well as everything else i pointed out in that episode he had realized it would be misinterpreted before it was recorded and released but a rational analysis of the lyrics alone reveals the
00:50:07intention In writing it give brown writes you've stated that fans shouldn't assume that one particular song with perhaps questionable lyrics defines an artist worldview With that in mind what do you think about merle haggard song I'm a white boy I'm a huge moral fan and i'm desperate to
00:50:26find a way to take that song as anything but racist but it's hard What are your thoughts Hey gib i'd be lying if i said i was happy you sent in this question but i'm glad to have you listening to the show As you just heard Many merle
00:50:41haggard fans are generally pissed off a tmi they don't like what i said about okie from misko g they don't like what i said about merle haggard not being involved in creating the bakersfield sound they're definitely not going to like what i have to say about this song
00:50:56because i think it's racist you could take what i would call on ill advised route and proposed that it's about being proud of what he is and it isn't about belittling any other races except there are only about six seconds of time that passed between the line i
00:51:13ain't black and i ain't yella and the line yeah i don't want no handout livin the proximity of those phrases the fact that they both assert what he is not and are on ly separated by an assertion of what he is which is a white boy automatically associates
00:51:32minorities with hand out living and presents white people as possibly better than that but certainly separate from that there's nothing in the song that indicates merle wants us to laugh at the person saying these words i don't think it's funny or meant to be i don't think it's
00:51:48a joke or meant to be now as i said in the episode on okie from moscow g and as you quoted me saying in your question we cannot listen to this song and think it tells us very much about who merle haggard is as a person i believe
00:52:03we have plenty of evidence to show that merle haggard's politics cannot be reduced to simple statements like he hates black people or he thinks white people are better than minorities I presented some of that evidence in the episode on okie from muskogee and there is plenty more where
00:52:20that came from But whatever you choose to think about merle haggard to the man i don't see any way of around this song being racist i think it's safe to say that merle himself had some reservations about it He didn't record it until nineteen seventy seven even though
00:52:37he for sure had it written by nineteen seventy five because that's when jim monday's version of a song came out merle haggard put out at least five full length albums between jim monday's recording of this long and his own there's got to be something to that though i
00:52:54have no idea what and will probably never find out Marlon would like to know if the reason merle never mentioned who he voted for is because he was a felon and couldn't vote Thanks for the question marlin if you go back and listen i believe you'll hear me
00:53:10say that Merle says he never voted and yeah i would assume being a felon had something to do with that next marlin wants to know if merle was married to tom t halls acts when he took naomi judd on his tour bus for a few days in the
00:53:26late seventies i've got to assume that marlon meant buck owens acts instead of tom t hall zaks no merle was not married to bonnie owens but this is something i was very careful to look into before telling that story to the whole world In her first autobiography even
00:53:44though she doesn't mention moral inviting her and wynonna on the bus for of few days naomi makes a point of saying that merle's lawyer was there to serve him divorce papers from leone a williams Now if you keep in mind what we all know about that autobiography of
00:53:59hers i don't think anyone will be surprised to learn But leone a williams and merle haggard we're not divorced until years after this in nineteen eighty three by which time the judge had been living in nashville for several years not california where that concert happened Craig from ontario
00:54:19canada didn't have a question but he wrote in tow let me know that thie in you it were also throat singing which would bring that vocal style at least onto the same continent as arthur miles from the louvin brothers episode thank you for that information Craig kenny has
00:54:36a siri's of questions about the louvin brothers capitol records and country music in california He asked if the louvin brothers were flying out to california when they were corded with their producer Can nelson there's a follow up question wondering if the louvin brothers would have then had any
00:54:54influence on the bakersfield sound Lastly he wants to know if the dearth of commercial success west coast country is a result of capital moving its country division to nashville or merle haggard leaving bakersfield or don rich dying or what These are great questions kenny and i'm particularly glad
00:55:14you asked where the loovens were recording because i thought i specified in the episode but it turns out i did not It is my understanding that ken nelson was flying into nashville for louvin brothers recording sessions While i'm certain they had fans in the california country music scene
00:55:32i don't think you could call the louvin brothers a strong influence on the bakersfield sound I don't really hear that and we have no reason to believe anyone on the west coast would even really be aware of the louvin brothers until when i stopped dreaming became a hit
00:55:48in nineteen fifty five the year after that but hab song i've talked so much about as for the dearth of commercial success of west coast country there is a lot to unpack there capital's country division did officially move to nashville in october of nineteen seventy four but i
00:56:06don't know that there's any one reason you can point to for bakersfield country music scene peter ring out I'm certainly not an expert on the local economy or any of a dozen other variables that could come into play One thing i can tell you is that buck owens
00:56:22and merle haggard are the most successful practitioners of the classic era of the bakersfield sound you could argue about which one of them is number one and which one is number two I wouldn't care to participate in that argument or the argument concerning who should be in the
00:56:39number three position but i will point out that no matter who you want to put in that number three position the drop off from number two to number three would be steep to say the least when a couple stars come out of a music scene it brings the
00:56:55industry people around and a lot of money comes with him when that scene doesn't produce any more stars the industry people take their money somewhere else and the scene usually ends up worse than it was before everything got hot I would also propose that the bakersfield sound self
00:57:13never died but was incorporated into other musical movement then evolving with in country music The bakersfield sound was largely a result of the okie migration texas in the mid seventies was home to the outlaw country movement which picked up that bakersfield banner of anti establishment country and was
00:57:34lead among others by whaling jennings who recruited ralph mooney to see his vision through you see what i'm saying the shelby singleton and jeannie see riley episodes are the on ly ones nobody had a specific question about which i'm choosing to take as a compliment on a job
00:57:53well done here's something i talked a little bit about in the intro of the tom t hall episode but there's some more I can say this is from morgan who writes how much responsibility for the degradation of country in modern country music is the fault of the establishment
00:58:12I read on oxford american article and one of the music issues can't remember which in the defense of pop country it went something like this the country music industry has always been mercenary the argument being the fan is largely responsible for the output country is a dynamic and
00:58:31complex demographic this is an interesting question morgan thank you the short answer to your direct question is probably eighty five to ninety percent there have always been artist eager to explore elements from other genres of music i can't think of many examples where the country in their sound
00:58:50was degraded in the process buck owens comes to mind with the elements of polka pop and rock in his brand of the bakersfield sound then there were artists eager toe work within movements like the nashville sound because like the establishment they were interested in profiting from potential crossover
00:59:09success I would say there's no question that the entire music industry regardless of genre has always been mercenary where i would disagree with the premise of this article which isn't necessarily a condemnation of pop country is in saying the fan is responsible for the output which fan certainly
00:59:31not the fan of traditional country music or there would be no reason for this article in oxford american to exist as the fan would be happy with what they're getting from the industry and a defense would not be necessary So then it must be the fan of pop
00:59:47music or the fan of whatever music gets played on top forty radio as this is the fan movements such as the nashville sound were openly catering to honestly i would rather use a word like market here instead of a word like fan it's not about people and what
01:00:04they want it's about money and who you can get to give it to you the market is largely responsible for the output of the establishment but again not the country music market because that's not big enough the top forty market is where they want to be competitive country
01:00:21is a dynamic and complex demographic and here's where they're getting creative with their representation of the country music market but let's switch back to using the word fan what about that top forty radio fan who hears one of these softened up pop country songs and that brings them
01:00:38into the fold They get into the harder stuff but they still appreciate the pop country because that's what brought them to the table This person is now a country music fan Every pop country crossover hit creates more of this person So now the industry gets to say they're
01:00:53just giving fans what they want but they had to create that type of fan first or back to the market way of thinking about it The establishment has now nudged the venn diagram of country music market and top forty market one step closer to being a single circle
01:01:10you could say we were here first those aren't real country music fans but in fifty years you'll be outnumbered by them um the venn diagram will be even closer to looking like a single circle history is constantly redefining cultural boundaries which is why i think it's foolish to
01:01:28plant a flag on a hill and say this is where i stand with real country music and really country music fans or do anything like that But it is disingenuous for the industry to pretend that it's simply giving the people what they want and i will repeat that
01:01:43i think the crossover success of hard country acts like buck owens reveals off flaw in their entire hypothesis No fan of music Once all music to sound the same We want our mettle to sound like metal or bubble gum pop to sound like bubble gum pop or country
01:02:01to sound like country creative experimentation is fine Systematic gravitation toward the middle sucks It would be like if you loved to drink lemonade but milk was a more popular drink so every time you bought a jug of lemonade they had a little bit more milk in it to
01:02:19try and get milk drinkers to buy it I like lemonade I like milk One day i might even get stoned and decide to mix them together to see how it tastes if i like it fine i'm the weird kid who drinks lemonade milk but when everyone goes to
01:02:35the store and the only thing on the shelf is jugs of lemonade milk that's a problem i'm reminded of the famous quote about not being able to please all of the people all of the time but being well capable of pleasing some of the people all of the
01:02:50time or all of the people some of the time the most concise way to sum up the history of the pop country problem is that it has been a blatant attempt to please all of the people some of the time the traditional country music fan wants the country
01:03:06music industry tow focus on pleasing some of the people actual fans of actual country music all of the time larry has a question about how don williams and tom t hall might have influence each other he writes don is one of my favorite country artist his songs seems
01:03:26so sincere and easy for me to identify with tom t hall is another favorite with his song i love i listen to your episode of tom t hall and learned a lot of his style my question is what influence did these two artists have on each other if
01:03:42any they both seemed tohave a similar style and delivery that meets the sincerity criterion for country music thank you larry i also loved on williams and agree with you that his simple vocal delivery could be thought of as similar to tom t halls i'm slightly hesitant to suggest
01:04:01this but if you're interested to see how different two seemingly similar styles khun b go to youtube and search for tom t hall and dawn williams performing the song tulsa time together the reason i hesitate to suggest a tom t hall finn do this is because it is
01:04:19plainly evident that tom is struggling with singing a song that has been tailored to dawn's way of singing you can just tell he's having a hard time putting everything where it's supposed to be and keeping it there that doesn't mean don is a better singer or performer than
01:04:35tom or anything like that it just means that although they walk the same territory they've each warn their own path through it regarding what influence they may or may not have had on each other that i cannot definitively answer i've never seen either of them cite the other
01:04:53as an influence and their professional careers got started around the same time i'm certain they were aware of each other's work probably admired each other's work but i would call them contemporaries before i'd call one a strong influence on the other more than one person wrote in tow
01:05:13asked what was up with buck owens rockabilly recordings under the name corky jones this wasn't something i expected to be of that much interest but i can say a little bit about it it as i've already mentioned in this episode and elsewhere buck was always a fan off
01:05:30all kinds of music and constantly being exposed to it around bakersfield in his autobiography he says the corky jones recordings were mostly inspired by elvis although i can tell you elvis wouldn't have been anywhere near the first rockabilly artist that buck ever heard He would however have been
01:05:50the most successful which would have been very influential to a man like buck owens He was still on pep records at the time but already gaining some attention as a country artist around bakersfield he didn't want to deal with anyone giving him shit about making non country record
01:06:07so he came up with the corky jones pseudonym that one record is said to have received a little airplay But i for one am grateful corky jones did not become a star because then we wouldn't have gotten buck owens michael conch in writes hey tyler loved the podcast
01:06:24but have a question about the book and don episodes you mentioned early on about them wearing new tea like suits but they weren't actual new teas I seem to remember you saying it may have caused some kind of stir and you would get to that later in the
01:06:39next episode but don't remember it coming up again Did i miss it Or is there a good story that got cut Thanks for writing michael let me go back and see exactly what i said in that episode The podcast is called cocaine and rhinestone so i've got to
01:06:55let you know those rhinestone suits they're wearing on the album cover are not nudie suits they were made by nathan turk who did good work and didn't charge nearly as much as nudie cohn which would be a good segue way in tow One of the many problems buck
01:07:12is about tohave except we've got to talk about a different problem first you already know a little bit about it it's bucks lady problem okay so what i was saying there is buck went with nathan turd because he charged less money than nudie one of the next topics
01:07:32discussed after introducing the problem with don and k is how ah common criticism of buck is that he was a cheapskate I don't think his choosing the turk suits was necessarily a sore spot with anyone but if the k adam situation didn't need to be introduced right there
01:07:50which it did i'd have used the suits as a way to get from carnegie hall over to discussing the criticism of buck being a miser One might wonder why i'd put an off hand comment like that in the episode when there's no way a person could know what
01:08:05i'm talking about the first time they listen it's one example of a thing i put in for people who decide to listen to the show multiple times when someone knows what's coming because they've heard the story before i think a little comment like that can give them or
01:08:19appreciation for how everything is being put together At least that was my intention there I think brian stoker wants to see if he can get me killed because he's asked me to rank the following guitarist in terms of skill and importance to twentieth century country music don rich
01:08:38pete anderson james burton and brett mason that's gotta be a typo i think you meant brent mason well damn brian i don't know what i did to deserve this but thanks for writing in with a question first of all i need to say that ranking musicians is not
01:08:53something that really interests me but you've explicitly asked me to do that I should also mention that virtuosos don't really do it for me Maybe i'll watch a video on youtube of some guy playing a ridiculous guitar solo but i don't want to hear that shit all the
01:09:08time Maybe i'd like it more if i drink energy drinks I don't know but yeah i don't tend to think of technical skill as very important in my own personal listening choices or in a conversation about history like the one we're having now so what i'm going to
01:09:24do is pretend you asked me to separate questions about the same set of guitar players and i'm going to try to be as objective as possible in my answers i feel pretty comfortable with saying pete anderson is the most skilled player of the four then brent mason who
01:09:43i should note i've seen talk about how great pete anderson is then james burton and then don rich that's not at all an insult to don riches playing but he's certainly the least technical player of the bunch and despite that carnegie hall album being note perfect don did
01:10:00make a lot of mistakes the reason pete and brandt are clearly more skilled than james burton is that pete and brandt got tto learn howto play like james burton when they were younger which is why the next part of my answer is going to get me in trouble
01:10:16in my mind don rich is the most important one when it comes to twentieth century country music hands down no question and i don't really need to get into why because i already did over the course of those two episodes what i have to do here is explain
01:10:32why pete anderson is the second most important one brent mason is third and james burton is fourth the reason is because we're talking about country music acknowledging that james burton influenced pete and brent and acknowledging that he had mohr than a little country in his style you know
01:10:51corn picking he was muchmore important to rock and roll yeah he played on some of those early ricky nelson heads that crossed over to the country charts but that was almost entirely joe maaruf is doing the real guitar work and of course james went on to his most
01:11:07high profile gig playing with elvis from nineteen sixty nine to nineteen seventy seven personally i would be inclined to say this has very little to do with country music at all but okay elvis also crossed over the country charts a lot go listen to those songs though and
01:11:25what you're going to hear is aton of piano and strings you've got a song here and there like she thinks i still care or pledging my love where you can hear james doing some work but it's nearly never anything remarkable nearly never a showcase for his instrument You
01:11:42could see that at an elvis presley concert but again i'm not sure that's important to country music at all especially when the entire time james was in elvis's band you could have just gone to see wayland jennings play guitar and you'd be watching maybe one of the ten
01:11:59most important guitarist in country music history please nobody asked me who the other nine might be i am not country music buzzfeed now the reason i would say pete anderson was more important to country music than james and brent is because of how important dwight yoakum wass the
01:12:16country music at the time not only did pete play guitar on those albums but he produced them that's a big footprint and a lot of inspiration for future country artist on any instrument not just guitar players As for brent mason he is a terrific guitar player he's done
01:12:35incredible work with legends of country music from the mid eighties on it would take me two hours to sit here and list the hits that he's played on If you are at all interested in country lead guitar you should be searching brent mason on youtube but there you
01:12:52have it there's my answer dan has a question that i thought was inspired by the wynonna episode but it turns out he hadn't listened to that one yet when he asked is it fair to say that the new country artists beginning with perhaps garth brooks or earlier are
01:13:09generally less authentic than those like cash Haggard jennings lin et cetera As a fan of cash and haggard at around age twelve i'm now fifty eight i wonder but at the same time i don't want to run down the new talent Thank you dan i'm so glad you
01:13:27asked No it is not fair to say that there is no such thing as authenticity there is not a social economic recipe for country music singers or song right There's the issue of authenticity and country music on ly exist in the mind of marketers music journalist and the
01:13:45rare fan who buys too much into what these people say There is a gigantic flaw in this idea that country music fans need any sort of backstory at all let alone one that passes some sort of hypothetical real nous or authenticity test on dh it's in the name
01:14:02of my podcast has anyone ever seen a sharecropper work of field while wearing a rhinestone suit Seems like if this authenticity thing mattered so much everyone who makes country music would be dressed in tattered overalls and have a couple of teeth blacked out The word these authenticity people
01:14:25are always looking for is sincerity we don't care if the guy on stage singing about being poor isn't really poor we know there's more than one way to feel poor we care if we think he doesn't really feel poor when he sings about it We care if we
01:14:43think he's being insincere and every music fan regardless of genre has a right to care about that to bring it back to dan's question i don't believe it's fair to say that anyone is more or less sincere simply because of when they were born here's a side note
01:15:01this is one reason why artists with addiction problems are so frequently lionized in every genre of music doing heroin or cocaine or being an alcoholic doesn't make that artist anymore Riel doesn't make that artist any more authentic but what it does do is tell us that artist knows
01:15:20exactly what it's like to feel extreme highs and extreme lows Whether they're singing about happiness or sadness there can be no question that they mean it Whether they're singing about feeling good or feeling bad there can be no question that they are sincere Please understand that anyone who
01:15:38takes what i just said to mean they should develop a substance abuse problem so people will take them seriously is on idiot it do not do that larry wrote to say that tanya tucker's rendition of jamestown fairy never made too much sense to him Although he does enjoy
01:15:56her performance he wants to know if mac vickery's original version was written in the masculine tongue and modified for tanya He also wants to know if doug kershaw's version came first Thank you for the question larry I always love an excuse to talk about tanya tucker She is
01:16:14one of my favorites First of all i need to throw bobby borchers name in here as a writer on the song with mr mack vickery next tanya tucker's version came out earlier in the same year as the kershaw's version which was nineteen seventy two but i think larry
01:16:30is probably onto something here for one thing there's a great essay by daniel cooper called tanya tucker almost grown which was published in the journal of country music it's loaded with details on how tame his career got started they were not having songs written for her because the
01:16:48entire hook here it was toe have this powerhouse vocalist of a child sing songs meant for adults frequently alluding to mature themes so she was selecting material from demo tapes and it's safe to assume that's how jamestown fairy got to her the lyrics to the final verse of
01:17:07tana's version are a little awkward and they go as i walk through his kingdom of honky tonks and bars i remember how he'd hold me and comfort me with talk he didn't cost with every breath he had a sioux than southern drawl he made me feel like a
01:17:22lady through it all dug kershaw's version as i walked through my kingdom of honky tonks and bars i met a queen of a woman who could comfort me with talk she didn't cost with every breath she had a suit in southern drawl and her long auburn hair hung
01:17:38to the pockets of her jeans now i think there's probably aren't the original lyrics either they're even more clumsy and doug changed the words of just about every song he ever sang hey here's how that verse later ended up in johnny russell's recording of the song and my
01:17:55guess would be these are the original lyrics because they make the most sense of the three As i walked through my kingdom of honky tonks and bars i met a queen of a woman who could comfort me with talk she didn't cost with every breath she had a
01:18:11sioux than southern drawl she made me feel like her man through it all there's my best guess paul has an interesting question prompted by the ralph mooney episode he wants to know how these musicians came to be who they were he writes i can see how someone like
01:18:29merle haggard might have just sort of been blessed being a decent poet with the perfect voice of god but someone like ralph mooney is a beyond sophisticated musician playing a very complicated instrument that is also completely new and modern without much of any kind of precursor How did
01:18:46someone i'm presuming from a not rich background end up becoming such a prodigious and sophisticated musician That's an amazing question paul thank you i'm afraid my answer may be boring and disappointing to you but i do believe it is the truth practice many of the world class musicians
01:19:05i've been around often take issue with the entire concept of talent they say it's really about time the younger you start the better for the same reason that it's easier to learn to speak multiple languages when you're young rather than waiting until you're older you can still learn
01:19:22another language when you're older and you should start as soon as possible if you think you want to do that it's just not going to be a z z as if you'd started when you were say ten but starting young isn't a magic pill if you begin occasionally
01:19:37dicking around with the guitar when you're seven and all you ever do is occasionally dick around with it for the rest of your life you're never going to be roy nichols i'm not going to say it takes passion because i really believe it does just come down to
01:19:51time and i throw focus in there as well but passion certainly makes it easier to dedicate that time and focused to the instrument i think about it like connect the dots picture where there are always new dots showing up to make the picture better but you have to
01:20:09be there and you have to already be connecting dots before you notice those new dots showing up the more time you spend connecting the dots the better you get at seeing the new dots arrive and connecting them with the ones you've already connected i hope that makes sense
01:20:25as for their not being much of any kind of precursor for a pedal steel guitar i wouldn't really say that the first petal steals weren't nearly as complicated as what we see today it was often just one or two pedals very similar to a non pedal steel which
01:20:42had been around for a long time and was essentially just unopened tuned guitar which had been around much longer Mooney was a master of thie instrument but we're not talking about a musical quantum leap here he was always building on what came before building on what he'd already
01:21:00figured out as i mentioned in the episode you can hear the beginning of his pedal steel style when he was still playing a standard electric guitar so his birth move on the pedal steel would have been to figure out how to do what he already knew how to
01:21:16do on a guitar and take it from there it's always a process of connecting one more dot one more dot one more dot until you get there friends that is the end of this little experiment i really need you to let me know if you enjoyed this because
01:21:33it was so much more work than i thought it would be if it's not something people want more of that i need to cut it from the to do list in the future i had fun doing this if you want another one for season two i'll do another
01:21:45one for season two it will almost certainly tie into the patriotic in some way i'm not sure how but keep an eye on patriotic dot com slash tyler may hand co as i figure these things out out supporters of the podcast will also get a monthly update post
01:22:02from me on how season two is coming along That's exclusive to patri on for as little as two dollars a month You can help me make the podcast and get those behind the scenes updates Thank you for everything Take care of yourselves I'll be back as soon as

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