Full Transcript for The Social Reckoning Fails To Have A Point | Close Up E183

There's, you know, what's the difference? 00:02:13.139 --> 00:02:15.319 Why wouldn't I go watch a documentary? Well, 00:02:15.460 --> 00:02:18.020 you're supposed to be adding something to it. 00:02:18.099 --> 00:02:20.900 There needs to be another take to it where this 00:02:20.900 --> 00:02:24.610 movie went and didn't, it didn't give you a new 00:02:24.610 --> 00:02:27.250 take. It didn't give you anything that you couldn't 00:02:27.250 --> 00:02:31.909 get from. Like at least on, I'm going to talk 00:02:31.909 --> 00:02:34.889 about it mostly in halves because you could separate 00:02:34.889 --> 00:02:38.969 it in half practically. You can separate these 00:02:38.969 --> 00:02:43.650 two movies. So the Documents movie half, that's 00:02:43.650 --> 00:02:45.509 the part I'm talking about that it's like, okay, 00:02:45.550 --> 00:02:50.310 it didn't add anything to the narrative. It gave 00:02:50.310 --> 00:02:54.030 you a couple of facts and all right, they threw 00:02:54.030 --> 00:02:57.169 a few statistics at you and explained, all right, 00:02:57.169 --> 00:03:01.159 Facebook is bad because. 64 % of people who joined 00:03:01.159 --> 00:03:04.400 radical groups on Facebook were recommended to 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:06.539 them through the algorithm. But that's like a 00:03:06.539 --> 00:03:09.759 stat that you could just read that as a news 00:03:09.759 --> 00:03:13.120 article, like the headline. That's it. That's 00:03:13.120 --> 00:03:17.550 what they gave us. And after the events of this 00:03:17.550 --> 00:03:19.569 movie, they said that they did publish all these 00:03:19.569 --> 00:03:23.050 in a long expose called the Facebook Files, which... 00:03:23.349 --> 00:03:25.330 This movie makes me want to read those and it's 00:03:25.330 --> 00:03:26.889 probably more informative than the actual movie. 00:03:26.889 --> 00:03:28.430 But it didn't cover that. It's like it did all 00:03:28.430 --> 00:03:30.509 the buildup to get there and then didn't cover 00:03:30.509 --> 00:03:34.430 that. To cover exactly what they found in this. 00:03:34.689 --> 00:03:38.069 The message of the movie comes down to Facebook 00:03:38.069 --> 00:03:42.479 bad. And it rings hollow because... Did it even 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:45.680 though? It towed the line. It's like, well, is 00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:48.120 it Facebook's fault or is it Congress's fault? 00:03:48.849 --> 00:03:51.990 It didn't even really go Facebook bad. It went... 00:03:52.270 --> 00:03:56.349 Zuckerberg questionable? I think it was trying 00:03:56.349 --> 00:03:59.629 to, in the very end there, when the Capitol riots 00:03:59.629 --> 00:04:05.780 are happening and Zuckerberg has to kind of back 00:04:05.780 --> 00:04:07.840 off a little bit on what he's willing to allow. 00:04:08.099 --> 00:04:11.409 Like when he starts, he has to censor Donald 00:04:11.409 --> 00:04:15.199 Trump or else he's going to get some serious 00:04:15.199 --> 00:04:18.180 blowback. When he finally has to say, okay, okay, 00:04:18.300 --> 00:04:22.660 there's a line here and all the talking in my... 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:25.480 ear this whole movie about having to take accountability 00:04:25.480 --> 00:04:28.579 now it's in my face and i have to make a decision 00:04:28.579 --> 00:04:32.199 so the movie is trying to say that despite him 00:04:32.199 --> 00:04:35.439 denying responsibility he did have a responsibility 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:41.240 but it's we already knew that that's where the 00:04:41.240 --> 00:04:43.519 movie rings hollow because it's not telling me 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:47.959 anything that i is just a living person in the 00:04:47.959 --> 00:04:52.279 2020s don't know i know that social media has 00:04:53.259 --> 00:04:56.600 negatively impacted the world facebook was the 00:04:56.600 --> 00:05:02.129 first global smash hit social media platform 00:05:02.129 --> 00:05:05.089 like i mean i don't know how big myspace was 00:05:05.089 --> 00:05:07.470 to be honest but facebook was sort of the all 00:05:07.470 --> 00:05:10.009 -encompassing one that for a while yeah that 00:05:10.009 --> 00:05:15.019 lasted and i've seen its effect in my lifetime 00:05:15.019 --> 00:05:17.800 i remember when everyone signed up to facebook 00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:21.420 when we were in elementary school and how i was 00:05:21.740 --> 00:05:23.860 peer pressured into it i wasn't even interested 00:05:23.860 --> 00:05:26.180 at the time but that's just where everybody was 00:05:26.180 --> 00:05:27.959 and it was hey what do you mean you don't have 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:30.300 facebook and like you have to be 13 to be on 00:05:30.300 --> 00:05:32.839 it but you know i'll just say you're you were 00:05:32.839 --> 00:05:37.620 born a few years earlier it's fine so yeah i 00:05:37.620 --> 00:05:39.839 wanted to play farmville i think facebook still 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:42.139 has me as a few years older than i am because 00:05:42.139 --> 00:05:45.899 of that uh if you if you like look deeply into 00:05:45.899 --> 00:05:49.899 my page creeping joe yeah uh probably says i 00:05:49.899 --> 00:05:53.420 was born sometime in the mid 90s i don't know 00:05:53.420 --> 00:05:56.199 but that's just what the culture was back then 00:05:56.199 --> 00:05:57.839 if you weren't on facebook what were you doing 00:05:57.839 --> 00:06:01.769 and then facebook changed and it got more driven 00:06:01.769 --> 00:06:07.790 by extremism and rage bait as the movie argues 00:06:07.790 --> 00:06:12.310 is what always sold the best and then at a certain 00:06:12.310 --> 00:06:15.449 point they switched their algorithm to prioritize 00:06:15.449 --> 00:06:23.579 reshares and the uh Not just the likes, but the 00:06:23.579 --> 00:06:27.120 other emojis. Just other reactions. The more 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:32.639 reactions and reshares, the higher the ratio. 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:36.839 And that right there is basically the only thing 00:06:36.839 --> 00:06:40.759 the movie gave

us. That it was like, yes, this 00:06:40.759 --> 00:06:43.480 is where they went wrong. It said they changed 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:45.180 their algorithm. And they knew what it would 00:06:45.180 --> 00:06:49.920 do. They changed their algorithm from... liking 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:52.379 something means you see more of that thing to 00:06:52.379 --> 00:06:56.279 engagement makes you see more of that thing. 00:06:56.360 --> 00:06:58.939 And the more strongly you engage, the more we're 00:06:58.939 --> 00:07:02.620 going to show you of things that will make you 00:07:02.620 --> 00:07:04.180 react. It's not necessarily - Well, I guess it 00:07:04.180 --> 00:07:06.980 was more directly that it was like, okay - They're 00:07:06.980 --> 00:07:08.680 chasing reaction instead of like - They went 00:07:08.680 --> 00:07:11.240 for the shares was the highest, specifically 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:16.600 knowing that the highest shared posts were the 00:07:16.600 --> 00:07:19.860 rage bait. Yes. I think the - The fundamental 00:07:19.860 --> 00:07:22.519 idea is that they started chasing reactions instead 00:07:22.519 --> 00:07:25.540 of things you actually like. It used to be, hey, 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:28.399 I like this. And then it was, oh, I'm reacting 00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:30.939 to this. And when it comes to reaction and what 00:07:30.939 --> 00:07:33.600 keeps you going, it's usually extreme one way 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:36.259 or the other. And a lot of times we react to 00:07:36.259 --> 00:07:39.000 bad things more. So when you're chasing reactions, 00:07:39.339 --> 00:07:42.060 like that's a totally different ballgame to me. 00:07:42.180 --> 00:07:46.610 You're chasing feelings instead of, hey, I like 00:07:46.610 --> 00:07:48.949 this. And you might like something on Facebook 00:07:48.949 --> 00:07:51.250 because you think it's smart or informative or 00:07:51.250 --> 00:07:54.189 just silly and it was cute and maybe, all right, 00:07:54.209 --> 00:07:57.449 show me more memes about cats or something versus 00:07:57.449 --> 00:08:00.430 the rage bait that made me react or that news 00:08:00.430 --> 00:08:02.709 article that I wanted to share to everybody because 00:08:02.709 --> 00:08:05.029 it bothered me so much. I mean, like even for 00:08:05.029 --> 00:08:07.430 us, we try to say controversial stuff sometimes 00:08:07.430 --> 00:08:12.209 just to have a clip that might draw in some viewership. 00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:15.000 The controversy is more in our presentation. 00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:17.360 Like, we do believe in the controversial things 00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:19.500 we say. We just lean into it a little harder. 00:08:19.620 --> 00:08:21.839 We amplify a little. I mean, like, I'm not going 00:08:21.839 --> 00:08:24.779 to go out of my way to be like, oh yeah, I didn't 00:08:24.779 --> 00:08:27.939 like this movie because I think that they villainized 00:08:27.939 --> 00:08:30.939 Zuckerberg too much. He's a nice guy. You know, 00:08:30.959 --> 00:08:32.679 they kind of went out of their way not to villainize 00:08:32.679 --> 00:08:35.179 Zuckerberg. They really did. They gave him a 00:08:35.179 --> 00:08:38.840 long time to share his point of view on the matter 00:08:38.840 --> 00:08:43.740 here. To effectively explain that... There are 00:08:43.740 --> 00:08:49.340 no laws that make me have to regulate this place. 00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:53.620 He saw Facebook as the, the way Aaron Sorkin 00:08:53.620 --> 00:08:56.500 put it, the public square of discussion where 00:08:56.500 --> 00:08:59.480 anyone is open to the square and they can say 00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:01.600 whatever they want. And it's up to the users 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:05.559 to be discerning enough to parse out what is 00:09:05.559 --> 00:09:07.759 quality information and what's misinformation. 00:09:08.019 --> 00:09:12.460 He's just a platform. And Bill Burr is... lecturing 00:09:12.460 --> 00:09:16.080 him the whole time and saying okay but when you're 00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:19.379 this you're not just the public square though 00:09:19.379 --> 00:09:22.940 you're the crossing guard at a school stop and 00:09:22.940 --> 00:09:25.769 you're letting all the kids get hit because you 00:09:25.769 --> 00:09:29.100 think just let things be how they are like yeah 00:09:29.100 --> 00:09:32.600 the cars are gonna go by but it's your job to 00:09:32.600 --> 00:09:36.820 hold up the sign that stops them i thought that 00:09:36.820 --> 00:09:39.559 was a decent analogy i feel like that's what 00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:42.399 the movie did really well is provide analogies 00:09:42.799 --> 00:09:46.700 for things, but yeah, that was a common point. 00:09:46.779 --> 00:09:48.960 You could probably think, think of more, but 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:51.279 not off the top of my head. Uh, the other one 00:09:51.279 --> 00:09:53.340 that really stuck with me was when Jeremy Allen 00:09:53.340 --> 00:09:57.190 White had his, had a bit of his monologue, uh, 00:09:57.309 --> 00:09:59.490 with Francis towards the end. And he was saying, 00:09:59.590 --> 00:10:01.190 and she was saying, oh, well, you're just, uh, 00:10:01.350 --> 00:10:08.019 you're just an old media glazer who is, you know, 00:10:08.019 --> 00:10:10.159 you think that big tech is stealing your jobs 00:10:10.159 --> 00:10:12.379 in journalism. And he said, well, it's not that 00:10:13.129 --> 00:10:15.529 It's not that tech is taking journalism jobs, 00:10:15.750 --> 00:10:21.000 it's that they're doing it badly. There's no 00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:25.190 accountability. They can just say whatever they 00:10:25.190 --> 00:10:28.070 want and they're not disseminating information 00:10:28.070 --> 00:10:32.730 or treating sources with any kind of code of 00:10:32.730 --> 00:10:36.889 conduct. They're just putting stuff out into 00:10:36.889 --> 00:10:39.029 the world to drive their own engagement, whereas 00:10:39.029 --> 00:10:43.860 journalists have a code. And yeah,

media... Certainly 00:10:43.860 --> 00:10:49.009 has his biases, and it also chases rage. But 00:10:49.009 --> 00:10:51.789 there is more systems in place for fact -checking, 00:10:51.789 --> 00:10:57.210 for, what's the word I'm looking for, retractions 00:10:57.210 --> 00:10:59.649 when they get things wrong. They do have to do 00:10:59.649 --> 00:11:02.610 that. Investigative reporters, their whole job 00:11:02.610 --> 00:11:05.809 is to go over information with a fine -tooth 00:11:05.809 --> 00:11:09.970 comb and piece together stories based on evidence. 00:11:10.070 --> 00:11:13.120 They're not chasing headlines, these guys. Like 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:15.840 this reporter in the movie, his job is to take 00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:18.899 his sweet time and find out what's really going 00:11:18.899 --> 00:11:24.759 on. And that's what people like Facebook don't 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:28.210 do. Those corporations are just putting whatever's 00:11:28.210 --> 00:11:33.360 going to stick. Stick on their page. The media 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:36.929 at least has some guardrails. Which once again 00:11:36.929 --> 00:11:40.610 is part of the point of if you're really thinking 00:11:40.610 --> 00:11:45.879 critically about it, media needed... laws and 00:11:45.879 --> 00:11:49.909 customs to guide them. And something like Facebook 00:11:49.909 --> 00:11:52.210 is the Wild West. It just needs regulation. It 00:11:52.210 --> 00:11:56.399 could be like that as well with proper regulatory 00:11:56.399 --> 00:12:00.559 oversight, but no one's overseeing them. And 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:03.799 that's where all the problems come in. I mean, 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:06.740 even a large part of the plot of this movie is, 00:12:06.820 --> 00:12:12.039 what was it? It was the civic, what was it? Her, 00:12:12.259 --> 00:12:17.440 the thing that she was working for, civic integrity. 00:12:17.909 --> 00:12:22.620 Yeah. Their whole job was to be conscious. Sorry, 00:12:22.740 --> 00:12:28.269 conscientious. I don't know if that was a real 00:12:28.269 --> 00:12:32.289 description, but I'm sure if it was, Aaron Sorkin 00:12:32.289 --> 00:12:34.090 probably saw that and was like, I'm going to... 00:12:34.090 --> 00:12:37.909 I'm going for it. Yeah, I'm just making this 00:12:37.909 --> 00:12:43.269 a recurring joke to mock them. They were the 00:12:43.269 --> 00:12:45.350 ones who were supposed to point out when Facebook 00:12:45.350 --> 00:12:52.620 was not respecting its user base and... They 00:12:52.620 --> 00:12:56.820 tried. Multiple times they went to Mark Zuckerberg 00:12:56.820 --> 00:12:59.080 and they said, well, at least according to this 00:12:59.080 --> 00:13:03.789 movie, they said, well, if you just are willing 00:13:03.789 --> 00:13:06.909 to accept a 1 % drop in revenue, we can reduce 00:13:06.909 --> 00:13:10.710 over 30 % in harm for this particular group. 00:13:10.970 --> 00:13:14.169 And Mark Zuckerberg is shown to say that's not 00:13:14.169 --> 00:13:18.889 acceptable. You know how much money 1 % is that 00:13:18.889 --> 00:13:24.570 we're going to be losing? For what? That's the 00:13:24.570 --> 00:13:28.129 mindset that he's shown to take. We are made 00:13:28.129 --> 00:13:31.460 to understand why as well. Well, and I think 00:13:31.460 --> 00:13:35.480 this right here demonstrates kind of the only 00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:39.240 thing that this side of the movie did was that 00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:41.779 it's prompting more discussion, but it doesn't 00:13:41.779 --> 00:13:44.240 make a statement on its own. It doesn't really 00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:48.379 give you anything. It tries to both sides of 00:13:48.379 --> 00:13:50.799 the argument. Yeah, they're sitting on the fence, 00:13:50.940 --> 00:13:54.759 but that's not, this isn't the place for that. 00:13:56.750 --> 00:13:59.450 A narrative movie isn't the place to be a fence 00:13:59.450 --> 00:14:03.889 sitter. Then why wasn't it a documentary? A documentary 00:14:03.889 --> 00:14:06.230 that just presents the facts. Okay, that's what 00:14:06.230 --> 00:14:09.659 I expect. But they're not adding anything to 00:14:09.659 --> 00:14:12.059 this. There's no reason that this couldn't be 00:14:12.059 --> 00:14:16.210 a documentary or a news article on that side. 00:14:16.740 --> 00:14:20.500 So that's why I think they entirely missed here. 00:14:22.899 --> 00:14:26.440 Yeah, we were talking earlier and I said that 00:14:27.019 --> 00:14:30.870 When it comes to a movie, you can have a screenplay 00:14:30.870 --> 00:14:35.230 that tells a story, but your job as a filmmaker 00:14:35.230 --> 00:14:40.669 is to choose where to point the camera. It is 00:14:40.669 --> 00:14:44.730 no matter what you do, you're showing a perspective 00:14:44.730 --> 00:14:49.440 in a movie. The camera is barring any weird editing 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:51.879 tricks. You're showing one thing at one time. 00:14:51.940 --> 00:14:55.740 You're showing a perspective on a matter. And 00:14:55.740 --> 00:14:59.899 this movie. is trying very hard not to do that. 00:14:59.960 --> 00:15:03.580 Not to show one perspective. It's trying to really 00:15:03.580 --> 00:15:07.860 show three. I'd say it's got three protagonists 00:15:07.860 --> 00:15:12.350 that it's juggling and isn't committed to any 00:15:12.350 --> 00:15:16.370 of them. It's got Mikey Madison as Francis Hagen, 00:15:16.450 --> 00:15:19.889 the true believer turned whistleblower. She actually 00:15:19.889 --> 00:15:22.909 has a complete arc, at least. You have Jeremy 00:15:22.909 --> 00:15:27.039 Allen White as Jeff Horwitz, the... investigative 00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:31.580 reporter who's trying to get this in -her -shell 00:15:31.580 --> 00:15:36.639 Facebook engineer to come on the record or reveal 00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:40.950 incriminating documents to him to help him understand 00:15:40.950 --> 00:15:44.759 what Facebook is doing as a company that has 00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:49.059 an effect on the

planet. And then you have Jeremy 00:15:49.480 --> 00:15:54.399 Strong who plays Mark Zuckerberg who is preparing 00:15:54.399 --> 00:16:00.379 for his deposition. Maybe the word? I think that's 00:16:00.379 --> 00:16:03.019 right. He has to go before Congress and explain 00:16:03.019 --> 00:16:08.090 himself and get coaching on how to nod properly 00:16:08.090 --> 00:16:10.549 and look like a normal human being. I call him 00:16:10.549 --> 00:16:14.470 Robot Zuck in my notes. Yeah, that's accurate. 00:16:15.190 --> 00:16:17.289 So you have these three perspectives. You got 00:16:17.289 --> 00:16:22.919 Mark Zuckerberg preparing for his talk to Congress. 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:26.179 You have the reporter who's trying to find a 00:16:26.179 --> 00:16:29.419 story. And you have this whistleblower. And this 00:16:29.419 --> 00:16:32.039 is, the movie can't really pick sides. Like, 00:16:32.100 --> 00:16:36.480 okay, do we want to follow Mark Zuckerberg? While 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:38.440 the movie is not really empathizing with him, 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:41.480 you're just showing his perspective. Every one 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:44.539 of his scenes is on the same day. He's actually 00:16:44.539 --> 00:16:47.120 only in one scene. Yeah, it just takes place 00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:49.519 over one day. His whole thing is, yeah, it's 00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:53.080 one continuous scene that's just spread out throughout 00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:55.200 the movie. For like nearly a third of the movie, 00:16:55.340 --> 00:17:00.759 I'd wager. Okay, so if you want to focus on the 00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:02.720 investigative reporter, that's the Documents 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:06.089 movie, except you establish right away this guy 00:17:06.089 --> 00:17:10.210 knows nothing about technology. And Francis, 00:17:10.349 --> 00:17:13.130 multiple times in the movie, calls him an idiot 00:17:13.130 --> 00:17:16.289 because she has to explain every little detail 00:17:16.289 --> 00:17:18.490 of technology to him. He doesn't know what he's 00:17:18.490 --> 00:17:21.230 looking at. Well, that's like the middle portion 00:17:21.230 --> 00:17:23.710 of the movie where it's like, there's a middle 00:17:23.710 --> 00:17:27.200 where it's just, it's just... Francis him and 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:29.539 him meeting multiple times where she's like you 00:17:29.539 --> 00:17:31.319 didn't do anything and he's like well I didn't 00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:34.369 figure anything out and then she gives him one 00:17:34.369 --> 00:17:36.890 more piece of information and then leaves yeah 00:17:36.890 --> 00:17:41.150 and then repeat several times because she's a 00:17:41.150 --> 00:17:44.769 reluctant hero and he has no idea what he's doing 00:17:44.769 --> 00:17:48.660 without her guidance not to say he's a bad reporter 00:17:48.660 --> 00:17:51.900 but he's well his excuse is that Facebook is 00:17:51.900 --> 00:17:54.220 just so locked down nobody else is willing to 00:17:54.220 --> 00:17:56.680 talk to him And he doesn't understand tech well 00:17:56.680 --> 00:18:01.410 enough to figure things out for himself, I guess. 00:18:01.769 --> 00:18:05.269 He just doesn't get the information that he needs 00:18:05.269 --> 00:18:07.970 to do anything. He can't get access to it. He's 00:18:07.970 --> 00:18:10.069 only got one source who's willing to talk to 00:18:10.069 --> 00:18:12.950 him and explain what he's actually getting from 00:18:12.950 --> 00:18:17.869 her. And she's dragging it out for months. So 00:18:17.869 --> 00:18:22.190 you talked about arcs, right? Yeah. How she has 00:18:22.190 --> 00:18:26.789 a complete arc. Yeah. The reporter doesn't have 00:18:26.789 --> 00:18:31.819 an arc. No. Zuckerberg doesn't have an arc. So 00:18:31.819 --> 00:18:35.079 you've got three leads that two of them have 00:18:35.210 --> 00:18:41.710 no arc. Now we're talking about the other side, 00:18:41.970 --> 00:18:45.829 right? The story side. Okay, so two of your characters 00:18:45.829 --> 00:18:49.630 don't have arcs, and the character that does 00:18:49.630 --> 00:18:53.750 have an arc has this giant middle section where 00:18:53.750 --> 00:18:57.349 not much is happening. She's not committing to 00:18:57.349 --> 00:19:00.769 a choice. She keeps going back. It's not... In 00:19:00.769 --> 00:19:05.140 most good storytelling, characters make a choice 00:19:05.140 --> 00:19:08.200 and they can't just walk the choice back. They 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:12.500 have to keep going with it or face the consequences 00:19:12.500 --> 00:19:15.180 of it. But she never really faces any consequences. 00:19:16.579 --> 00:19:21.160 She's sure scared most of the movie. Every time 00:19:21.160 --> 00:19:24.180 they meet, it's in a secluded location on the 00:19:24.180 --> 00:19:26.660 top of the hill where they're hiking. And there's 00:19:26.660 --> 00:19:28.380 that one scene where she even meets the guy. 00:19:29.509 --> 00:19:31.750 but doesn't meet him but she uh she's leaving 00:19:31.750 --> 00:19:36.700 the hotel and the guy sees her even the one time 00:19:36.700 --> 00:19:42.480 she does get caught her friend is kind of turned 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:44.819 a corner by that point and gives her more information 00:19:44.819 --> 00:19:49.369 so they they set up oh well bad things are going 00:19:49.369 --> 00:19:52.430 to happen to her if she gets caught and there's 00:19:52.430 --> 00:19:56.309 a lot of near misses but doesn't really feel 00:19:56.309 --> 00:20:00.170 like she's ever really in danger and i guess 00:20:00.170 --> 00:20:04.299 that comes down to that being based on a you 00:20:04.460 --> 00:20:08.170 know true fact they're probably trying to stay 00:20:08.170 --> 00:20:11.640 but that's the thing is that that's why this 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:14.079 movie is strange because it can't decide what 00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:17.619 it is are you a dramatization or are you gonna 00:20:17.619 --> 00:20:21.930 tell the facts or are you

gonna like it just 00:20:21.930 --> 00:20:23.950 it just doesn't make up its mind about what it 00:20:23.950 --> 00:20:29.680 is so it fails on both fronts i don't usually 00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:34.589 like to do this where i I pitched my own version 00:20:34.589 --> 00:20:36.230 of what I would have liked to seen differently 00:20:36.230 --> 00:20:40.029 because that just gets into editorializing, but 00:20:40.029 --> 00:20:42.779 I'm going to do it this time. What I would have 00:20:42.779 --> 00:20:45.119 liked to see is them to scrap Mark Zuckerberg 00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:48.960 almost entirely from the movie. I think they 00:20:49.089 --> 00:20:51.230 made a big point about how Facebook is nearly 00:20:51.230 --> 00:20:55.920 this monolithic beast in itself. It's a... It's 00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:58.660 like a post -nation country that they were arguing. 00:20:58.779 --> 00:21:01.579 2 .8 billion people, double the population of 00:21:01.579 --> 00:21:05.670 the biggest country in the world. Their CEO is 00:21:05.670 --> 00:21:10.130 this robotic guy who needs to be taught how to 00:21:10.130 --> 00:21:13.660 nod properly. There's that one scene where they 00:21:13.660 --> 00:21:16.319 go to talk to him and pitch a presentation. And 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:18.500 she describes later that everything in his office 00:21:18.500 --> 00:21:20.680 is bulletproof, even his couch, that he can cower 00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:23.400 behind if something happened. They set Facebook 00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:28.390 up like, you know, nearly like... Soviet Union 00:21:28.390 --> 00:21:31.710 secret police. If you're going to be a whistleblower, 00:21:31.809 --> 00:21:34.309 nobody talks to the media. They even get on dating 00:21:34.309 --> 00:21:37.630 apps to try to find us, to try to get people 00:21:37.630 --> 00:21:40.430 to talk. We're going to hunt you down, single 00:21:40.430 --> 00:21:43.289 you out, ruin your life in Silicon Valley if 00:21:43.289 --> 00:21:45.730 you ever talk about what's really going on here. 00:21:45.869 --> 00:21:48.230 They make them seem like this very scary organization. 00:21:49.910 --> 00:21:53.269 But all that fear is lost when we see Mark Zuckerberg 00:21:53.269 --> 00:21:56.210 so much pulling back the curtain and hearing 00:21:56.210 --> 00:22:00.069 his perspective on it. if you locked up the focus 00:22:00.069 --> 00:22:03.730 on her and focused on this situation where she's 00:22:03.730 --> 00:22:08.069 having doubts and the system is treating her 00:22:08.069 --> 00:22:11.250 very poorly and it's nearly like Mark Zuckerberg 00:22:11.250 --> 00:22:13.529 is the king at the top of the tower in this fortress 00:22:13.529 --> 00:22:17.039 that maybe she sees in that one scene where she 00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:19.539 she pitched him and maybe that's all we see of 00:22:19.539 --> 00:22:22.819 Mark Zuckerberg I think the movie feels a lot 00:22:22.819 --> 00:22:25.579 more scary if you cut out his scenes because 00:22:25.670

--> 00:22:29.559 then it's nearly uh then it nearly feels like 00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:31.869 this This whole corporation is against her. It's 00:22:31.869 --> 00:22:37.109 not personified. It just feels more insurmountable 00:22:37.109 --> 00:22:41.970 if we don't see him or really hear what he... 00:22:41.970 --> 00:22:43.569 Well, if we don't know that he's already, like, 00:22:44.349 --> 00:22:47.730 already cowering, like, oh, man, what do I do? 00:22:47.910 --> 00:22:50.710 What do we do? Yeah. If you presented it more 00:22:50.710 --> 00:22:53.490 like a cult where because she was... She believed 00:22:53.490 --> 00:22:55.970 in Facebook's mission. Maybe you started off, 00:22:56.029 --> 00:23:01.230 all right, she has a good reason to... want to 00:23:01.230 --> 00:23:05.049 be a part of this Facebook thing and then the 00:23:05.430 --> 00:23:07.789 way they treat her like garbage or co -workers 00:23:07.789 --> 00:23:10.630 don't respect her her bosses don't respect her 00:23:10.630 --> 00:23:14.289 nobody hears what she has to say and she's hearing 00:23:14.289 --> 00:23:18.470 all these people talk about how bad Facebook 00:23:18.470 --> 00:23:21.890 is but when we don't get Facebook's perspective 00:23:21.890 --> 00:23:24.809 and she's getting this increasing paranoia of 00:23:24.809 --> 00:23:27.430 oh every time I talk to this reporter they're 00:23:27.430 --> 00:23:29.990 gonna hunt me down and find me I just think that 00:23:29.990 --> 00:23:31.920 would make it scarier Well, and that's the thing 00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:34.759 is... It's there. That comes back to the failure 00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:38.059 is that they didn't want to pick a standpoint. 00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:41.720 Yeah. They didn't want to stand on any side with 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:44.680 this movie. It's fence riding. This movie might 00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:46.400 actually get a lot better come to think of it 00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:49.920 just in the edit. Like if you just chop out a 00:23:50.180 --> 00:23:52.460 lot of the scenes, there's... Because I like 00:23:52.460 --> 00:23:54.940 a lot of what's here. Half the things I just... 00:23:54.940 --> 00:23:57.279 90 % of the things I just described are in the 00:23:57.279 --> 00:23:59.240 movie. It's just that they're being brought down 00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:03.430 by other stuff in the movie. It won't really 00:24:03.430 --> 00:24:05.390 address any of your complaints you brought up 00:24:05.390 --> 00:24:09.470 so far, but I think it would help if you chopped 00:24:10.109 --> 00:24:12.230 out a third of the movie. Well, they just needed 00:24:12.230 --> 00:24:15.529 to not fence ride. You needed to make a point. 00:24:15.670 --> 00:24:19.109 You needed a standpoint of what, why are you 00:24:19.109 --> 00:24:22.319 telling us this story? Like, I shouldn't be walking 00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:26.910 away being like, well, so what was their point? 00:24:27.349 --> 00:24:30.349 Is their point, is the point that Congress should 00:24:30.349 --> 00:24:33.450 be acting and... and making laws for the internet 00:24:33.450 --> 00:24:37.890 is their point that uh that like you could even 00:24:37.890 --> 00:24:41.420 argue that this movie was about oh that facebook 00:24:41.420 --> 00:24:45.069 was innocent that facebook did nothing wrong 00:24:45.069 --> 00:24:48.369 that's facebook is doing capitalism as capitalism 00:24:48.369 --> 00:24:52.430 was intended in this system and uh and that's 00:24:52.430 --> 00:24:54.910 not a wrong interpretation of the movie that's 00:24:54.910 --> 00:24:57.549 literally an angle that is done in the movie 00:24:57.549 --> 00:25:03.150 they're only blameless for not They can only 00:25:03.150 --> 00:25:05.589 be blamed for not taking responsibility upon 00:25:05.589 --> 00:25:10.349 themselves as social, as people who live in a 00:25:10.349 --> 00:25:13.759 social sphere. It's not being nice to your neighbor, 00:25:13.859 --> 00:25:18.930 basically. It's... Yeah. But at the same time, 00:25:19.009 --> 00:25:21.130 they're telling us that it's like, no, they didn't 00:25:21.130 --> 00:25:23.990 really do anything wrong, though. The argument 00:25:23.990 --> 00:25:27.269 that comes up in the movie is things will only 00:25:27.269 --> 00:25:29.349 change when the government makes them change. 00:25:30.440 --> 00:25:32.420 If they're not going to be nice themselves, they 00:25:32.420 --> 00:25:34.460 need to be made to be nice. And that's my thing 00:25:34.460 --> 00:25:37.319 is they didn't lean on, like, that's kind of 00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:40.960 like the closing point. And that's like her opening 00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:45.569 statement in Congress, right? Yep. So that is 00:25:45.569 --> 00:25:49.069 one of the closing notes of the movie. But at 00:25:49.069 --> 00:25:51.849 the same time, the rest of the movie never focused 00:25:51.849 --> 00:25:55.769 on that as an aspect. Yeah. Never looked at it. 00:25:55.829 --> 00:25:58.630 It doesn't really have an argument. That's the 00:25:58.630 --> 00:26:02.250 thing. I don't know which... And that's the point, 00:26:02.269 --> 00:26:05.549 is I think it was on purpose. They didn't pick 00:26:05.549 --> 00:26:09.490 a side. And that's why the movie has no, it's 00:26:09.490 --> 00:26:12.650 got nothing behind it. It has no legs, there's 00:26:12.650 --> 00:26:15.829 no stab at anybody here. If you somehow lived 00:26:15.829 --> 00:26:19.250 under a rock and you did not know social media 00:26:19.250 --> 00:26:22.549 had this kind of effect on people, I think it's 00:26:22.549 --> 00:26:26.950 a good personified introduction. To me, that's 00:26:26.950 --> 00:26:29.230 what separates it from a documentary is, okay. 00:26:29.650 --> 00:26:32.049 I'm seeing actors portray these characters, which 00:26:32.049 --> 00:26:35.829 lends a certain empathy to the situation. And 00:26:35.829 --> 00:26:40.200 we're given, you know, Aaron Sorkin's sharp dialogue 00:26:40.200 --> 00:26:42.539

and back and forth. And we're presented in an 00:26:42.539 --> 00:26:45.839 entertaining way this thing that has changed 00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:52.089 our society so much in the last 19 years. And 00:26:52.089 --> 00:26:55.799 you can come away feeling a little hollow, but 00:26:55.799 --> 00:26:58.019 it's certainly a conversation starter. We've 00:26:58.019 --> 00:27:01.039 been talking about... For the last day since 00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:02.880 we've seen this movie, we've been talking a lot 00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:06.000 about the situation surrounding the movie. We've 00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:09.759 talked about real life politics and policy because 00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:12.099 of this movie, but less about the actual movie. 00:27:12.339 --> 00:27:14.319 Exactly. In the last 24 hours. That's what it 00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:16.980 did well is it's a discussion starter. It's bringing 00:27:16.980 --> 00:27:19.900 it back to the focus. It's a spark that ignited 00:27:19.900 --> 00:27:22.079 a lot of conversations between us in the last 00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:25.039 day, but not about the movie itself. But I don't 00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:27.119 know why they didn't make a standpoint with it. 00:27:28.039 --> 00:27:33.529 Yeah. Like. To me, that's crucial for making 00:27:34.519 --> 00:27:38.359 it like not a documentary. And even documentaries 00:27:38.359 --> 00:27:43.099 have their standpoints on things. But if you're 00:27:43.099 --> 00:27:45.279 going to be fence riding, that to me seems like 00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:47.039 you should have just made a documentary then. 00:27:47.819 --> 00:27:50.519 If you want to just present the case as is and 00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:53.539 let the audience figure out what to feel or what 00:27:53.539 --> 00:27:57.150 to think. Yep. But that's the thing is we're 00:27:57.150 --> 00:28:01.430 not stupid. You can give us your standpoint and... 00:28:01.970 --> 00:28:04.490 Have that the conclusion of the movie kind of 00:28:04.490 --> 00:28:07.690 points towards your standpoint. And people might 00:28:07.690 --> 00:28:10.529 disagree, but it's still going to make discussion. 00:28:11.829 --> 00:28:14.769 Yep. But at least you're making a point. And 00:28:14.769 --> 00:28:18.420 that's my problem is there's no point made. Yep. 00:28:18.460 --> 00:28:21.359 I mean, I got to compare it to a movie I saw 00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:23.619 the other week like Digger. I mean, that movie 00:28:23.619 --> 00:28:26.970 made a point. It's a lot more of a controversial 00:28:26.970 --> 00:28:29.930 movie and it's very much in a love it or hate 00:28:29.930 --> 00:28:34.619 it style, but sure took a swing. In one solid, 00:28:34.700 --> 00:28:39.769 continuous direction. That movie is satire from 00:28:39.769 --> 00:28:42.769 beginning to end, and you know who it's making 00:28:42.769 --> 00:28:49.299 fun of. There's really no guesswork there. But 00:28:49.299 --> 00:28:51.779 that's why it's a polarizing thing, is because 00:28:51.779 --> 00:28:55.920 it's not trying to play to all bases. This movie 00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:58.380 is trying to have some sort of broad appeal. 00:28:58.619 --> 00:29:00.400 Like, it doesn't want to offend anybody. Well, 00:29:00.500 --> 00:29:03.920 and I'm not saying they need to vilify Mark Zuckerberg. 00:29:04.220 --> 00:29:06.119 Like, they don't have to make him the villain. 00:29:07.450 --> 00:29:09.970 But I think it would be more interesting if he 00:29:09.970 --> 00:29:12.490 was the boogeyman. I mean, that would be more 00:29:12.490 --> 00:29:15.750 interesting, but at least come up with a point 00:29:15.750 --> 00:29:20.069 like, OK, if you want to say that the problem 00:29:20.069 --> 00:29:24.549 is Congress not enforcing laws on Zuckerberg. 00:29:24.990 --> 00:29:27.509 Actually, that would be a more interesting way 00:29:27.509 --> 00:29:32.299 to pitch it is if you're if you're sort of vilifying 00:29:32.299 --> 00:29:34.519 Zuckerberg and then Zuckerberg comes out to be 00:29:34.519 --> 00:29:38.579 like, I did nothing wrong. There is no laws that 00:29:38.579 --> 00:29:40.539 say that I have to do anything. Okay, great. 00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:43.680 Now we focus on Congress, which is why I feel 00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:48.369 like it was lost that they didn't do the trial. 00:29:48.470 --> 00:29:52.450 They didn't have Congress involved at all. Because 00:29:52.450 --> 00:29:55.329 that's a third angle, a third point, and probably 00:29:55.329 --> 00:29:58.609 the one that's correct. He spent the entire movie 00:29:58.609 --> 00:30:03.029 preparing for a session we never saw. Yeah. And 00:30:03.029 --> 00:30:08.549 her buildup of the case led to... that and we 00:30:08.549 --> 00:30:11.890 skipped over it entirely yeah the build -up for 00:30:11.890 --> 00:30:16.250 for both plots built up to this thing that we 00:30:16.250 --> 00:30:21.049 didn't see and it might have been fine if there 00:30:21.049 --> 00:30:23.869 was a satisfactory result you know if you're 00:30:23.869 --> 00:30:26.289 gonna have your your tax credits that say oh 00:30:26.289 --> 00:30:29.329 facebook went on to enforce their their thing 00:30:29.329 --> 00:30:34.140 but no we got facebook didn't do anything They 00:30:34.140 --> 00:30:36.440 crawled further into their shell. In fact, they 00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:38.740 axed fact -checking entirely. They got rid of, 00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:42.019 which, the whole movie, I was kind of like, oh, 00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:45.000 yeah, maybe this is, like, I didn't quite know 00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:49.109 the timeline of these things exactly. And I was 00:30:49.109 --> 00:30:51.869 like, oh, yeah, there's, there were those, those 00:30:51.869 --> 00:30:56.480 fact, you know, like. Verification bubbles. Yeah, 00:30:56.500 --> 00:30:59.160 it was at the bottom of, like, articles or posts 00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:02.609 and stuff that it was like, okay. this is verified 00:31:02.609 --> 00:31:05.509 information

or this isn't, or this is still, 00:31:05.569 --> 00:31:07.849 we haven't verified this yet. Take it with a 00:31:07.849 --> 00:31:11.220 grain of salt. There was a time that was a thing. 00:31:11.460 --> 00:31:14.380 And so I'm like, oh, this is okay. The end of 00:31:14.380 --> 00:31:16.660 the movie is where they're going to have, this 00:31:17.049 --> 00:31:19.549 is what's being installed. And then it's the 00:31:19.549 --> 00:31:21.589 end where it's like, oh yeah, they got rid of 00:31:21.589 --> 00:31:26.069 it. I'm like, they did get rid of that. Yeah. 00:31:26.190 --> 00:31:32.880 Oh, brutal. But that's the thing is there. Working 00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:36.299 with an unsatisfactory ending, they needed to 00:31:36.299 --> 00:31:40.180 make a standpoint then. You knew the ending was 00:31:40.180 --> 00:31:44.369 going to be unsatisfactory in every way. Yep. 00:31:44.769 --> 00:31:49.299 Yep. She did all that work and it came to nothing. 00:31:50.930 --> 00:31:55.950 I think it's also frustrating for expectations 00:31:55.950 --> 00:31:59.289 going in because they call it the social reckoning. 00:32:00.029 --> 00:32:02.190 There was no reckoning. There was no reckoning. 00:32:02.230 --> 00:32:06.750 No. They say, oh, things might change. And then 00:32:06.750 --> 00:32:08.869 the end credits tell you nothing changed and 00:32:08.869 --> 00:32:10.809 it just got worse. Well, and I was expecting 00:32:10.809 --> 00:32:15.809 this was a legal drama. You know, that could 00:32:15.809 --> 00:32:17.609 be my fault. I didn't watch any trailers, but 00:32:17.609 --> 00:32:20.170 that's just the impression I had. Honestly, the 00:32:20.170 --> 00:32:23.289 trailer set me up to think similar as well. That's 00:32:23.289 --> 00:32:26.349 just what I figured it was going to be. And we 00:32:26.349 --> 00:32:29.829 didn't get that portion at all. Yeah. And I feel 00:32:29.829 --> 00:32:34.410 like that was the more important part. But they 00:32:34.410 --> 00:32:38.650 did this in between. It's a drama with a point, 00:32:38.809 --> 00:32:42.609 but not really. There's no point. Yeah. I don't 00:32:42.609 --> 00:32:47.269 know. I mean, there's good things. Throughout 00:32:47.269 --> 00:32:51.569 the movie, I was heavily invested. I was paying 00:32:51.569 --> 00:32:53.750 attention to it entirely. I was never bored. 00:32:54.210 --> 00:32:59.359 The actors, what's his name? Jeremy Allen White. 00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:04.779 Jeremy Allen White. He's fantastic. The lead 00:33:04.779 --> 00:33:07.980 girl was really good too. Mikey Madison. I think 00:33:07.980 --> 00:33:10.519 my favorite was Jeremy Strong as Mark Zuckerberg. 00:33:11.140 --> 00:33:14.039 I don't know who, you know, I don't know who 00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:16.200 the other characters were in real life, but I 00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:18.980 know I've seen a lot of Mark Zuckerberg clips 00:33:18.980 --> 00:33:21.460 and Jeremy Strong really nailed Mark Zuckerberg 00:33:21.460 --> 00:33:23.960 from that era. At first I was like, I was like, 00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:26.619 oh, his acting's kind of wooden. And then I'm 00:33:26.619 --> 00:33:30.259 like, no, no, that's pretty much spot on. He's 00:33:30.259 --> 00:33:33.849 like, perfect. So he's doing a really good job. 00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:37.299 And I really liked Bill Burr as well. Yep, Bill 00:33:37.299 --> 00:33:40.259 Burr is... Even though he wasn't a main character, 00:33:40.500 --> 00:33:43.759 but he was very good and very memorable in the 00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:46.539 scenes he was in. Yep, he had good energy, for 00:33:46.539 --> 00:33:50.160 sure. So there's a lot good about this as a movie, 00:33:50.240 --> 00:33:55.589 but to me, I still think that this style of movie 00:33:55.589 --> 00:33:59.569 needs to be held at a higher standard. These 00:33:59.569 --> 00:34:02.609 document movies are important because... We're 00:34:02.609 --> 00:34:05.789 talking about real history and real things and 00:34:05.789 --> 00:34:10.489 things that matter. Your standpoint on this matters. 00:34:10.670 --> 00:34:14.329 When you're speaking, you have a platform to 00:34:14.329 --> 00:34:19.059 speak to your audience with this. So this matters. 00:34:19.139 --> 00:34:22.400 How you do it matters. A lot of times the formula 00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:25.539 for these documents movies is there was a great 00:34:25.539 --> 00:34:28.679 injustice in the world that was probably covered 00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:32.030 up. Somebody went through files that no one expected 00:34:32.030 --> 00:34:35.090 people to actually look through, and they found 00:34:35.090 --> 00:34:37.929 the evidence that speaks truth to power. And 00:34:37.929 --> 00:34:41.010 now this movie is presented in a way that you 00:34:41.010 --> 00:34:44.789 can finally see the real truth and be horrified 00:34:44.789 --> 00:34:47.809 and shocked and hopefully have a strong opinion 00:34:47.809 --> 00:34:50.329 about it. Well, and also you get to know the 00:34:50.329 --> 00:34:53.469 people who brought the truth to light, which 00:34:53.469 --> 00:34:57.820 is good. Yeah. Because... Usually they're, well, 00:34:57.880 --> 00:34:59.260 a lot of times in these movies, they're just 00:34:59.260 --> 00:35:01.300 normal people. They're not superheroes. They're 00:35:01.300 --> 00:35:04.000 lawyers and investigative reporters and people 00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:06.300 who just patient, damn patient most of the time. 00:35:06.300 --> 00:35:08.320 Yeah. Who actually have to look through these 00:35:08.320 --> 00:35:10.780 things. And they skipped over that whole bit 00:35:10.780 --> 00:35:12.599 in this movie where it was, oh, we have like 00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:14.940 100 hours before I get fired and we have to, 00:35:14.980 --> 00:35:17.780 before they lock me out of the system. And that 00:35:17.780 --> 00:35:21.280 was a montage. That was, and when they were like, 00:35:21.340 --> 00:35:22.880 oh, when they had the call up and

it's like, 00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:24.980 yeah, we got 15 ,000 documents. We got them. 00:35:26.429 --> 00:35:30.170 I'm like. That's it? That's the part of the movie. 00:35:30.190 --> 00:35:33.230 We got him. Yeah, that part of the movie is what 00:35:33.230 --> 00:35:35.570 most other movies in this subgenre would have 00:35:35.570 --> 00:35:38.190 been the whole movie. Yeah. And they skipped 00:35:38.190 --> 00:35:41.380 over it in five minutes because it was trying 00:35:41.380 --> 00:35:44.820 to be a whistleblower arc or a Mark Zuckerberg. 00:35:45.099 --> 00:35:47.719 That's the thing is the whistleblower arc would 00:35:47.719 --> 00:35:52.190 have been... I understand. You want the... You 00:35:52.190 --> 00:35:54.389 want to see the journey. Well, you want to tell 00:35:54.389 --> 00:35:57.610 the story of this woman, right? Yeah. That's 00:35:57.610 --> 00:36:02.710 fair. she deserves a movie sure yeah she's but 00:36:02.710 --> 00:36:06.889 clearly important what she did was brave and 00:36:06.889 --> 00:36:10.889 uh remarkable but that's what i mean is they 00:36:10.889 --> 00:36:14.150 split in two directions they were split both 00:36:14.150 --> 00:36:18.980 ways and then missed completely on both so yeah 00:36:19.969 --> 00:36:22.869 and i'm sitting here holding it to a standard 00:36:22.869 --> 00:36:28.010 of of uh of a documents movie which It's kind 00:36:28.010 --> 00:36:31.030 of disgusting the fact that we have a sub -genre 00:36:31.030 --> 00:36:35.590 for documents movies about like how all of these 00:36:35.590 --> 00:36:38.429 documents movies are about extreme levels of 00:36:38.429 --> 00:36:41.170 corruption. I have some opinions on this because 00:36:41.170 --> 00:36:44.630 watch, I'm plugging this, but watch Patrick H. 00:36:44.730 --> 00:36:48.550 Willems. He's a video essayist on YouTube. Maybe 00:36:48.550 --> 00:36:50.289 if you're into video essays, you've probably 00:36:50.289 --> 00:36:53.469 seen him. He did a whole episode on documents 00:36:53.469 --> 00:36:56.309 movies within the last year and that one was 00:36:56.309 --> 00:37:00.050 a really good one. A lot of them were like he 00:37:00.050 --> 00:37:02.489 takes a very specific thing and then deep dives 00:37:02.489 --> 00:37:04.769 and watches too many movies of a specific thing. 00:37:05.530 --> 00:37:07.630 So that was the one where he just went all in 00:37:07.630 --> 00:37:11.039 on documents movies. Just his specific little 00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:16.449 niche. So I learned a lot about that subgenre 00:37:16.449 --> 00:37:21.250 watching that one. It's so weird. Isn't it? That's 00:37:21.250 --> 00:37:23.789 so bad for our society that that has to be a 00:37:23.789 --> 00:37:29.269 subgenre of movie. Yeah. There's so much corruption 00:37:29.269 --> 00:37:32.070 in the world that we have enough corruption that 00:37:32.070 --> 00:37:39.010 gets exposed and then made into a movie. Enough 00:37:39.010 --> 00:37:43.760 movies made that we have its

own genre. Like, 00:37:43.760 --> 00:37:47.659 that is so brutal. I think one of the things 00:37:47.659 --> 00:37:49.860 that actually would have set this apart is that 00:37:49.860 --> 00:37:52.860 most of the documents movies I've seen are set 00:37:52.860 --> 00:37:55.320 in an era where there's more physical documents. 00:37:56.030 --> 00:37:58.190 The big challenge with this movie was that everything 00:37:58.190 --> 00:38:00.889 was backed up on computers that only certain 00:38:00.889 --> 00:38:03.769 people had access to, and the investigative reporter 00:38:03.769 --> 00:38:06.110 couldn't get to them through traditional means. 00:38:06.550 --> 00:38:10.469 He needed this source to get the documents to 00:38:10.469 --> 00:38:14.860 him. You know, sometimes they steal documents 00:38:14.860 --> 00:38:18.039 similarly, but it was just the idea that it's 00:38:18.039 --> 00:38:21.099 a technology corporation and the documents don't 00:38:21.099 --> 00:38:25.250 exist in physical form could have been an interesting 00:38:25.250 --> 00:38:29.880 angle to take. But they didn't really. It's kind 00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:31.780 of there. But I mean, that's just this movie 00:38:31.780 --> 00:38:33.780 in a nutshell. There's a lot of interest that's 00:38:33.780 --> 00:38:37.820 kind of there, but also isn't explored at the 00:38:37.820 --> 00:38:41.440 same time. Yeah, it's fence riding and it's mid 00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:46.280 -tier in every aspect. It's just not... Speaking 00:38:46.280 --> 00:38:48.420 of mid -tier in every aspect, just going to pivot 00:38:48.420 --> 00:38:51.960 into some talking technical for a bit. Where 00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:55.179 the filmmaking in this movie I thought was... 00:38:55.179 --> 00:39:01.880 It had... some style but also felt like it was 00:39:01.880 --> 00:39:06.199 mostly shot for coverage yeah it was a little 00:39:06.199 --> 00:39:10.480 more stylistic than totally basic but compare 00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:12.539 it to something like like the social network 00:39:12.539 --> 00:39:16.099 compared to the social network that was a style 00:39:16.099 --> 00:39:21.719 this one has has nothing like that one thing 00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:23.519 i noticed that really bugged me was that the 00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:27.289 production design just looked super barren Like 00:39:27.289 --> 00:39:29.190 in every room, like, yeah, there's furniture, 00:39:29.409 --> 00:39:33.820 but there's not much else. The costumes were 00:39:33.820 --> 00:39:36.969 also, yeah, I mean, people are dressing this 00:39:36.969 --> 00:39:40.889 way. I think Mikey Madison got the most eye -catching 00:39:40.889 --> 00:39:44.300 costumes. Her character was, I don't know, like, 00:39:44.300 --> 00:39:47.219 okay, that character has a style, at least, that 00:39:47.219 --> 00:39:51.199 feels a little bit unique. But everyone else 00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:56.820 was just sort of dressed, like, okay. The riot 00:39:56.820 --> 00:40:00.559 scenes

were... unsettling and chaotic but they 00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:04.139 probably could have done better too those are 00:40:04.139 --> 00:40:07.190 and that's really just because it's a real event 00:40:07.190 --> 00:40:09.690 that's probably the only reason it got any reaction 00:40:09.690 --> 00:40:12.630 out of me is because it's a oh it's like we're 00:40:12.630 --> 00:40:16.150 putting a camera right into this you have to 00:40:16.150 --> 00:40:19.460 see them smash the windows and get up on the 00:40:19.460 --> 00:40:25.329 balconies and storm the building i don't think 00:40:25.329 --> 00:40:30.289 i've somehow seen any interpretations of that 00:40:30.289 --> 00:40:34.889 in a fictionalized medium so maybe that's why 00:40:34.889 --> 00:40:39.670 it felt novel because it's still pretty new yeah 00:40:39.670 --> 00:40:45.010 I mean that's the thing is it makes me think 00:40:45.010 --> 00:40:47.510 down a different train of thought a little bit 00:40:47.510 --> 00:40:54.750 but as a movie what are you going to remember 00:40:54.750 --> 00:40:59.260 about this in five years or ten years maybe you 00:40:59.260 --> 00:41:03.610 might remember that maybe but I don't think you're 00:41:03.610 --> 00:41:07.800 going to remember the point of what any of the 00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:10.280 points that they were trying to say in this movie 00:41:10.280 --> 00:41:14.380 because it's so soft spoken basically like it's 00:41:14.380 --> 00:41:17.000 not there's no point that's really hammered in 00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:19.340 where i can we talked about it earlier about 00:41:19.340 --> 00:41:22.260 other documents movies that that we'd seen and 00:41:22.260 --> 00:41:25.469 it's like oh yeah i can remember exactly what 00:41:25.469 --> 00:41:28.869 what that movie the main point the main bad thing 00:41:28.869 --> 00:41:31.690 that they found in the documents was about i 00:41:31.690 --> 00:41:34.789 can remember that this movie i don't think we 00:41:34.789 --> 00:41:38.139 will in five years, in 10 years, you're not going 00:41:38.139 --> 00:41:40.139 to remember because the point wasn't hammered 00:41:40.139 --> 00:41:43.679 in. Yeah. And I just want to double back again, 00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:46.739 just to reiterate what you were saying. I just 00:41:46.739 --> 00:41:48.380 want to harp on it a little because this movie 00:41:48.380 --> 00:41:50.320 is entertaining. We've talked for, you know, 00:41:50.320 --> 00:41:52.900 over half an hour now about a lot of our problems, 00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:57.239 but I do want to... It makes me angry. Yeah. 00:41:57.260 --> 00:42:00.079 Like we do feel a certain way about this movie, 00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:03.900 but also... We enjoyed it while we watched it. 00:42:03.960 --> 00:42:06.139 When we walked out of the theater, we liked it. 00:42:06.300 --> 00:42:08.780 It's just over the last day, our opinion has 00:42:08.780 --> 00:42:11.800 soured somewhat. Thinking, okay, it didn't really 00:42:11.800 --> 00:42:14.179 leave me with anything though. But the actors 00:42:14.179 --> 00:42:20.400 are pretty good in it. It's not badly made, like 00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:24.239 I was saying. The style isn't very stylistic, 00:42:24.260 --> 00:42:27.079 but it's not badly done either. I was really 00:42:27.079 --> 00:42:30.539 liking it. It's just fine. The opening was all 00:42:30.539 --> 00:42:34.019 really good. yeah basically up to their meeting 00:42:34.019 --> 00:42:36.239 where their first meeting on the on the hill 00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:38.260 or whatever was was done really well i think 00:42:38.260 --> 00:42:40.659 the movie was really well yeah the first act 00:42:40.659 --> 00:42:43.699 is solid for sure for sure that first scene had 00:42:43.699 --> 00:42:46.780 me immediately with my backup and just frustrated 00:42:46.780 --> 00:42:49.679 at the whole situation like oh the movie's gonna 00:42:49.679 --> 00:42:52.199 be like this i'm gonna be angry the whole time 00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:56.409 in a good way in a good way yes and that was 00:42:56.409 --> 00:42:58.550 that was interesting that it was like okay this 00:42:58.550 --> 00:43:02.000 is the pivot point that it's like okay Anybody 00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:04.960 watching this movie probably going to be like, 00:43:05.059 --> 00:43:10.489 uh, that's cringy and bad. Like people shouldn't 00:43:10.489 --> 00:43:12.769 act like that. I don't think there's anybody 00:43:12.769 --> 00:43:15.150 out there who's. As soon as she whipped out the 00:43:15.150 --> 00:43:20.130 camera, like, oh no, here we go. Yeah. Yeah. 00:43:20.409 --> 00:43:24.230 She's making rage bait for Facebook. Yeah. Got 00:43:24.230 --> 00:43:29.380 it. Like, yeah, there's plenty of good in here. 00:43:29.460 --> 00:43:32.420 Like, I like the dialogue, the character. I mean, 00:43:32.440 --> 00:43:36.179 a lot of it was kind of mean. spirited sometimes 00:43:36.179 --> 00:43:38.340 and sometimes it made the characters seem like 00:43:38.340 --> 00:43:42.019 jerks it might just be the actor's raw charisma 00:43:42.019 --> 00:43:47.530 that uh that saves some of those scenes but they 00:43:47.530 --> 00:43:53.650 felt like they felt like lived -in characters 00:43:53.650 --> 00:43:56.469 not necessarily three -dimensionally written 00:43:56.469 --> 00:44:00.449 but they were the lines were delivered well Once 00:44:00.449 --> 00:44:02.090 again, I think they had to be careful because 00:44:02.090 --> 00:44:04.489 they didn't want to stray too far from reality. 00:44:04.869 --> 00:44:07.610 Yeah, their banter was provoking. It was amusing. 00:44:07.889 --> 00:44:13.449 It was made me think a little bit. It's like 00:44:13.929 --> 00:44:16.110 there is entertainment value to be had here. 00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:22.309 It's not a bad movie. It's just it's in this 00:44:22.309 --> 00:44:25.530 day and age where we're like, this is still relevant. 00:44:25.670 --> 00:44:29.110 This is still a problem. But it feels like they're

00:44:29.110 --> 00:44:33.880 on five years ago's problem. Yeah. Because the 00:44:33.880 --> 00:44:39.369 movie ends five years ago. Like, everything we've... 00:44:39.369 --> 00:44:41.250 That's one of the first thoughts I had when I 00:44:41.250 --> 00:44:44.010 left the theaters. Everything this movie is saying 00:44:44.010 --> 00:44:47.980 that Facebook's done, in the age of AI, they've 00:44:47.980 --> 00:44:50.619 taken everything they've done, not fixed it, 00:44:50.699 --> 00:44:53.320 and doubled down. Because now AI is running a 00:44:53.320 --> 00:44:56.199 lot of these algorithms. And it's not just Facebook. 00:44:56.340 --> 00:44:59.239 This movie is applicable to Facebook in a certain 00:44:59.239 --> 00:45:04.130 time period. Yeah, that's true as well. The message 00:45:04.130 --> 00:45:09.079 of, oh, okay. One guy changed the algorithm and 00:45:09.079 --> 00:45:12.960 caused this, which is not the hard standpoint 00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:15.820 that they've made, but that's the point I'm trying 00:45:15.820 --> 00:45:20.679 to pull from it is, okay, that was a pretty clear 00:45:20.679 --> 00:45:25.570 point that it's like, okay, yes, that one change 00:45:25.570 --> 00:45:29.630 was what caused it to go the way it did. They're 00:45:29.630 --> 00:45:33.980 trying to argue. I don't know how. I don't know 00:45:33.980 --> 00:45:37.079 how super fair it is to argue, to put all the 00:45:37.079 --> 00:45:40.099 blame on Facebook, but it's also the line that 00:45:40.099 --> 00:45:43.460 Aaron Sorkin is trying to draw is Facebook changing 00:45:43.460 --> 00:45:46.139 their algorithm indirectly led to the Capitol 00:45:46.139 --> 00:45:49.679 riots. Yeah, that's what he's trying to say. 00:45:49.780 --> 00:45:51.679 And I'm sure it did play a part. I don't know 00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:55.760 how social media in general, 100 % played a factor. 00:45:55.880 --> 00:45:58.400 I don't know about how big Facebook specifically 00:45:58.400 --> 00:46:01.949 was to blame for that. I haven't looked into 00:46:01.949 --> 00:46:04.730 it. But that's the argument he's trying to make 00:46:04.730 --> 00:46:09.449 is algorithmic shifts for engagement seem harmless, 00:46:09.510 --> 00:46:13.010 but it creates real mental health struggles and 00:46:13.010 --> 00:46:18.469 leads to real action for extremists in society. 00:46:18.710 --> 00:46:21.190 To the point where - People will take this idea 00:46:21.190 --> 00:46:23.530 they read on the internet and bring it into the 00:46:23.530 --> 00:46:26.429 real world to harmful effect. Well, and that 00:46:26.429 --> 00:46:29.150 was the thing that caused Trump to get banned 00:46:29.150 --> 00:46:33.269 from like Twitter and - Yeah. And in this movie, 00:46:33.389 --> 00:46:36.929 they got to pull his post because they know that 00:46:36.929 --> 00:46:40.750 it's pushing people. If it's not the cause, it's 00:46:40.750 --> 00:46:43.389 the platform they're using to push the aggression 00:46:43.389 --> 00:46:46.670 further. Yep. If you're not going to say that 00:46:46.670 --> 00:46:50.559 it was the cause, they were still using it. Yeah. 00:46:50.619 --> 00:46:52.780 It was still being used. The movie tried to thread 00:46:52.780 --> 00:46:54.800 that line through subtle ways. Like there was 00:46:54.800 --> 00:46:56.559 that bit when she was on the date with the guy 00:46:56.559 --> 00:46:58.920 and he was like, I don't know, drinking chlorine 00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:01.650 or something. He's like, oh yeah, it's a cleanser 00:47:01.650 --> 00:47:05.329 I read on Facebook. So to me, that's the first 00:47:05.329 --> 00:47:07.550 idea of what I was saying of, all right, we're 00:47:07.550 --> 00:47:09.449 - Colorful water. Colorful water, yeah. It was 00:47:09.449 --> 00:47:12.489 like, yeah, we're taking a bit of harmful misinformation, 00:47:12.670 --> 00:47:15.449 which, yeah, it makes you dumber to read it, 00:47:15.510 --> 00:47:20.150 but it's actively bad for society when he's implementing 00:47:20.150 --> 00:47:22.949 this into his life. And then the end of the movie 00:47:22.949 --> 00:47:27.980 is a full -on riot against democratic election. 00:47:30.190 --> 00:47:34.389 There is a scale there of, all right, first they're 00:47:34.389 --> 00:47:36.469 pushing misinformation and then they're pushing 00:47:36.469 --> 00:47:41.980 extremist views, which led to actions. But the 00:47:41.980 --> 00:47:47.050 DNA was there from pretty early on. And this 00:47:47.050 --> 00:47:49.530 movie's harping on Facebook, but as we were saying, 00:47:49.730 --> 00:47:53.389 it could be, it's all social media. It's relevant 00:47:53.389 --> 00:47:56.809 to algorithms in general. The algorithms, by 00:47:56.809 --> 00:48:02.650 making one change. Yep. And nowadays, like nobody 00:48:02.650 --> 00:48:05.989 even really knows how the algorithms work. Outside 00:48:05.989 --> 00:48:08.110 of these companies, like their algorithms are 00:48:08.110 --> 00:48:13.210 secret. Yep. But I think we all pretty much know 00:48:13.210 --> 00:48:16.969 that they try to drive whatever is going to get 00:48:16.969 --> 00:48:20.070 engagement. Pretty much. Like the longer you're 00:48:20.070 --> 00:48:25.429 on a social media app, website, whatever, the 00:48:25.429 --> 00:48:29.000 more money they make, the more it's better for 00:48:29.000 --> 00:48:32.300 them. So whatever they can do to keep you on 00:48:32.300 --> 00:48:35.380 that app, they're going to do it. They want to 00:48:35.380 --> 00:48:38.059 keep you there and they want to keep you there. 00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:42.079 They need to make you feel things. And that usually 00:48:42.079 --> 00:48:48.199 requires going bigger and more shocking or funnier 00:48:48.199 --> 00:48:50.780 or just it's got to be bigger. It's got to be 00:48:50.780 --> 00:48:57.050 bigger reactions in response. Yeah, it's it's, 00:48:57.050 --> 00:48:59.659 you know. It's one of the laws of the universe. 00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:01.960

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. 00:49:02.300 --> 00:49:04.880 You make a video, the reaction's gotta be equal. 00:49:06.159 --> 00:49:08.639 You make a big video, the reaction's gotta be 00:49:08.639 --> 00:49:14.280 big. Well, and I think that's... I think the 00:49:16.460 --> 00:49:19.159 movie didn't give us a takeaway to be like, okay, 00:49:19.199 --> 00:49:23.469 this is something relevant to us. It didn't give 00:49:23.469 --> 00:49:25.869 us anything that would be like, oh yeah, how 00:49:25.869 --> 00:49:29.889 do you protect yourself from this? It doesn't 00:49:29.889 --> 00:49:33.039 give you anything. there's no call to action 00:49:33.039 --> 00:49:36.860 yeah and she's right as a consumer in general 00:49:36.860 --> 00:49:39.900 social media could be a good thing but it's not 00:49:39.900 --> 00:49:43.019 yeah it's turning into a bad thing it is a bad 00:49:43.019 --> 00:49:46.300 thing but it could be a good thing and it's hard 00:49:46.300 --> 00:49:51.000 to completely disconnect from that so personally 00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:54.119 my my solution is that like on my samsung phone 00:49:54.119 --> 00:49:58.590 i have timers i have timers it locks me out of 00:49:58.590 --> 00:50:04.599 the apps So I limit my thing. And that keeps 00:50:04.789 --> 00:50:08.989 you where they're like, okay, the people who 00:50:08.989 --> 00:50:12.190 were radicalized in the movie, they were like, 00:50:12.230 --> 00:50:14.309 oh yeah, we have users who spend more than nine 00:50:14.309 --> 00:50:16.730 hours on the app. And those are the ones that 00:50:16.730 --> 00:50:18.449 they were talking about that get really deep 00:50:18.449 --> 00:50:21.010 involved into it. They call them hyper users 00:50:21.010 --> 00:50:25.170 or something. Yeah, that's right. So that to 00:50:25.170 --> 00:50:31.539 me is a realistic solution. Cap your time limit. 00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:36.159 Don't spend so much time on social media. I don't 00:50:36.159 --> 00:50:38.199 know how you do it on iPhone, but that's how 00:50:38.199 --> 00:50:41.980 I do it on my Samsung is I have hard -coded limits 00:50:41.980 --> 00:50:45.739 into the apps. And that's it. And you just lower 00:50:45.739 --> 00:50:48.860 your time until you're, I mean, maybe you could 00:50:48.860 --> 00:50:51.619 go cold turkey, but you don't have to. Like a 00:50:51.619 --> 00:50:54.079 lot of people, I've known people where they're 00:50:54.079 --> 00:50:55.500 like, oh yeah, I'm quitting Facebook. And they 00:50:55.500 --> 00:50:58.400 want to get off of social media entirely. And 00:50:58.400 --> 00:51:00.039 then like two years later, they're back on it 00:51:00.039 --> 00:51:05.360 again. Yeah. But social media is fine in small 00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:09.710 doses, but it's obvious like this, this movie 00:51:09.710 --> 00:51:14.679 shows you when you have those big doses, that's 00:51:14.960 --> 00:51:18.480 where stuff is bad. It's not. I mean, even in 00:51:18.480 --> 00:51:20.360 the small doses, it can be bad though. Well, 00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:21.980 it can be bad in small doses. If you're reading 00:51:21.980 --> 00:51:25.340 misinformation and taking it seriously. It's 00:51:25.340 --> 00:51:28.860 yeah. It still can be bad. It still can. But. 00:51:29.389 --> 00:51:33.050 By limiting your exposure, you're limiting, you're 00:51:33.659 --> 00:51:37.260 limiting how much of this is going to apply to 00:51:37.260 --> 00:51:40.139 you. And when you're in taking something for 00:51:40.139 --> 00:51:45.019 nine hours a day, you like, that is definitely 00:51:45.019 --> 00:51:49.530 messing with your brain. It is changing the way 00:51:49.530 --> 00:51:53.989 you think when you like nine hours a day, that's 00:51:53.989 --> 00:51:57.289 like going like. Going to school, you go to school 00:51:57.289 --> 00:51:59.489 for like, what, seven, eight hours, and they're 00:51:59.489 --> 00:52:01.550 trying to reconstruct your brain so that you're 00:52:01.550 --> 00:52:04.730 smart, so that you do practical, like, thinking. 00:52:04.889 --> 00:52:07.369 Yep. You use your brain. Or at least are good 00:52:07.369 --> 00:52:11.329 at memorizing things. So if you're doing an entire 00:52:11.329 --> 00:52:17.420 school day all the time of brain rot or hate 00:52:17.420 --> 00:52:20.369 speech or whatever. That's gonna reconstruct 00:52:20.369 --> 00:52:23.090 your brain. Self -fulfilling prophecy. You spend 00:52:23.090 --> 00:52:25.750 nine hours studying brain rot, your brain gets 00:52:25.750 --> 00:52:30.920 rotted. Yeah. Like, obviously, children are more 00:52:30.920 --> 00:52:35.409 susceptible to stuff. Adults are pretty susceptible. 00:52:35.409 --> 00:52:39.130 But adults are susceptible, too. It doesn't matter 00:52:39.130 --> 00:52:41.289 if you're spending that much time. But that's 00:52:41.289 --> 00:52:43.449 why, cap your time. Nobody should be spending 00:52:43.449 --> 00:52:45.610 that much time with this stuff, is the lesson. 00:52:46.110 --> 00:52:49.730 Yeah. And that's, I mean, I critique the movie 00:52:49.730 --> 00:52:55.849 for having a platform and not having a standpoint. 00:52:56.579 --> 00:52:59.480 So that's my standpoint with our small platform 00:52:59.480 --> 00:53:03.389 here. I'm not going to be a hypocrite there. 00:53:03.530 --> 00:53:08.789 Yeah, it had more potential. It had unused potential. 00:53:09.190 --> 00:53:12.949 Yeah. It could have been a lot more than it was. 00:53:13.610 --> 00:53:15.769 And I think that's the frustrating thing is as 00:53:15.769 --> 00:53:18.469 it stands, it's not bad. It's not an outright 00:53:18.469 --> 00:53:23.869 bad movie, but it's also, it's also frustrating. 00:53:24.329 --> 00:53:27.630 Uh, Zucker, you're never going to hear Zuckerberg 00:53:27.630 --> 00:53:30.389 say anything about this movie where the social 00:53:30.389 --> 00:53:33.530 network, he had a comment about it. He was, he 00:53:33.530 --> 00:53:37.460 was like, that's not

accurate at all. This one, 00:53:37.500 --> 00:53:40.820 it's not going to provoke a reaction out of him 00:53:40.820 --> 00:53:43.400 whatsoever. No, it's just a movie because it. 00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:45.920 It doesn't poke at him. It doesn't try anything. 00:53:46.159 --> 00:53:52.699 It doesn't. And that's it. So as for final rankings, 00:53:52.960 --> 00:53:56.400 I wanted to say Worth a Watch for most of the 00:53:56.400 --> 00:54:00.949 last day because it was a good conversation starter. 00:54:02.119 --> 00:54:05.579 But the more I think about it and the more I 00:54:05.579 --> 00:54:09.199 hear your opinions specifically, it made me think 00:54:09.199 --> 00:54:11.460 about it in a new light. And I think I got to 00:54:11.460 --> 00:54:14.510 drop it down to... It's okay if you put it on 00:54:14.510 --> 00:54:17.889 in the background. There's good moments of entertainment 00:54:17.889 --> 00:54:23.519 here. I don't think you should avoid it by any 00:54:23.519 --> 00:54:26.320 means. But if you watch it, it's... Yeah, I mean, 00:54:26.340 --> 00:54:28.659 that's a movie. You might get something out of 00:54:28.659 --> 00:54:33.469 it. Not just a conversation starter. But is it 00:54:33.469 --> 00:54:41.889 worth your full attention? Probably not. I'm 00:54:41.889 --> 00:54:46.170 gonna... I'm... Put it on in the background. 00:54:46.550 --> 00:54:50.289 I'm going to give it a rare thumbs down. I'm 00:54:50.289 --> 00:54:52.789 giving it a thumbs down because I'm holding it 00:54:52.789 --> 00:54:54.809 to a higher standard than usual. You're very 00:54:54.809 --> 00:54:58.210 disappointed. This is not just a movie, right? 00:54:59.210 --> 00:55:01.789 As a movie, yeah, you know what? It's not bad. 00:55:01.989 --> 00:55:04.210 It's like a mid -tier garbage. You're not going 00:55:04.210 --> 00:55:06.130 to watch it again. You're probably not even going 00:55:06.130 --> 00:55:09.309 to talk about it in like a year. Nobody will 00:55:09.309 --> 00:55:14.550 even remember this movie existed. But I'm giving 00:55:14.550 --> 00:55:18.670 it a thumbs down because I don't want movies 00:55:18.670 --> 00:55:22.070 to progress like this. I don't want them to fence 00:55:22.070 --> 00:55:26.309 it. I think this goes against the genre, the 00:55:26.630 --> 00:55:31.300 expectations of movies and the genre in specific. 00:55:31.579 --> 00:55:33.960 It's almost like the movie expects a reward for 00:55:33.960 --> 00:55:38.630 talking about a difficult topic. And towing around 00:55:38.630 --> 00:55:41.889 it without stepping on anybody. Yeah. You're 00:55:41.889 --> 00:55:44.969 trying to say, okay, it's good to talk about 00:55:44.969 --> 00:55:48.400 important topics, but you have to take a side, 00:55:48.519 --> 00:55:52.440 even if it gets slammed and disagreed on. I mean, 00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:54.519 they could have even took the side and been like, 00:55:54.639 --> 00:55:57.380 oh, the whistleblower is bad. Don't be a whistleblower. 00:55:57.860 --> 00:56:00.960 Don't be a, like. Yeah. Even if they took that. 00:56:01.019 --> 00:56:02.760 At least that's a take. I disagree. And you know 00:56:02.760 --> 00:56:04.639 what? People are going to, but it's going to 00:56:04.639 --> 00:56:08.019 cause discussion. It'll cause discussion. You 00:56:08.019 --> 00:56:10.139 can disagree. And people will come to their own 00:56:10.139 --> 00:56:13.260 conclusions from what they've seen. They're going 00:56:13.260 --> 00:56:14.920 to come to their own conclusions. That's fine. 00:56:15.400 --> 00:56:18.420 Unless, unless. Let me bring this point in right 00:56:18.420 --> 00:56:22.800 at the end. Maybe the movie's genius. And may 00:56:22.800 --> 00:56:27.579 forgive the pun, meta, because the movie is about 00:56:27.579 --> 00:56:32.769 meaningful social engagement and being super 00:56:32.769 --> 00:56:36.869 neutral is like flying in the face of Facebook's 00:56:36.869 --> 00:56:41.190 mode of operation. If they made it a reactive 00:56:41.190 --> 00:56:46.139 and side -taking movie, it would get... More 00:56:46.139 --> 00:56:49.059 reaction and be shared more. I actually think 00:56:49.059 --> 00:56:51.320 that that doesn't work for movies, though. I 00:56:51.320 --> 00:56:53.340 know, but I'm trying to make a devil's advocate 00:56:53.340 --> 00:56:58.179 argument that says it being neutral is a metatextual 00:56:58.179 --> 00:57:02.260 commentary on the subject matter. Doesn't make 00:57:02.260 --> 00:57:07.230 it a great movie, but I'm trying to throw that 00:57:07.230 --> 00:57:10.429 in. It's making a standpoint by not making a 00:57:10.429 --> 00:57:12.289 standpoint. It's making a standpoint by being 00:57:12.289 --> 00:57:15.969 neutral in the movie about reactive subject matter. 00:57:16.750 --> 00:57:25.199 Think about it. Any more final thoughts? Close 00:57:25.199 --> 00:57:28.880 us out. Well, hopefully they do better on the 00:57:28.880 --> 00:57:31.849 next one. Ten years from now, Aaron Sorkin will 00:57:31.849 --> 00:57:40.769 return with the social triumph where Mark Zuckerberg, 00:57:40.949 --> 00:57:49.869 who's actually a robot now, finally wins. Everyone 00:57:49.869 --> 00:57:54.380 will be on his platform. Yeah. Everyone. If you're 00:57:54.380 --> 00:57:57.619 not on Facebook, you're not allowed on Mars. 00:58:00.010 --> 00:58:02.130 Yeah. Or I guess it's got to be Twitter then. 00:58:02.250 --> 00:58:07.630 If you're not on X, then you're not coming to 00:58:07.630 --> 00:58:11.750 Mars with Elon Musk. You heard it here. You just 00:58:11.750 --> 00:58:16.219 gave him the idea. Oh, no. Good going. It's going 00:58:16.219 --> 00:58:18.320 to get scrubbed by AI and they're going to say, 00:58:18.380 --> 00:58:21.460 hey, that is a good idea. That's a good idea. 00:58:21.760 --> 00:58:25.039 Now, if you're not on X, I don't like you probably. 00:58:25.099 --> 00:58:28.019 You're not coming to Mars with me. I'm taking 00:58:28.019 --> 00:58:31.500 the people I think I'll like. Anyway, where can 00:58:31.500 --> 00:58:33.619 we find them? Well, that is another point, is 00:58:33.619 --> 00:58:39.719 that Facebook didn't pull Trump's tweets. Twitter 00:58:39.719 --> 00:58:44.329 did. And Twitter sunk to the level where a private 00:58:44.329 --> 00:58:47.860 individual bought the company and made it his 00:58:47.860 --> 00:58:51.079 own personal social media. Facebook, the company, 00:58:51.179 --> 00:58:55.880 stayed neutral. Twitter took a side and lost 00:58:55.880 --> 00:58:59.760 all its left center. All its left and centerists 00:58:59.760 --> 00:59:02.340 on the political spectrum. And tanked its value, 00:59:02.420 --> 00:59:05.389 basically. Yeah. Maybe that's the point with 00:59:05.389 --> 00:59:09.159 the movie is that they were like, well, we can't 00:59:09.159 --> 00:59:11.559 go. We can't come off of the fence. We're going 00:59:11.559 --> 00:59:15.099 to stay neutral, just like Facebook did. We're 00:59:15.099 --> 00:59:17.400 going to stay neutral because we don't want to 00:59:17.400 --> 00:59:20.699 tank. Yeah. But that's what's going to tank it. 00:59:20.800 --> 00:59:24.699 Yeah. Because unfortunately, well, not unfortunately, 00:59:24.820 --> 00:59:29.179 fortunately, movies. Live or die based on the 00:59:29.179 --> 00:59:32.239 audience. Yeah. I just don't think the audience 00:59:32.239 --> 00:59:36.199 is going to care enough. No. It's kind of old 00:59:36.199 --> 00:59:39.920 news. But, like, interesting story. I mean, glad 00:59:40.210 --> 00:59:42.750 I know the name Francis Hagen. I'll wait for 00:59:42.750 --> 00:59:46.579 a good documentary. Yeah. Or just read the Facebook 00:59:46.579 --> 00:59:50.170 files. I'm interested to see those now. I want 00:59:50.170 --> 00:59:53.519 to read what that's all about now. All right. 00:59:53.559 --> 00:59:57.119 We've gone on longer than I expected. So where 00:59:57.119 --> 00:59:59.440 can we find you? You can find me on Instagram 00:59:59.440 --> 01:00:03.940 at jchurchtpm. And you can find me on everything. 01:00:04.559 --> 01:00:07.039 Thoughtplane Media. But check out thoughtplane 01:00:07.039 --> 01:00:09.300 .ca specifically because that's where all the 01:00:09.300 --> 01:00:13.099 good stuff is. All our articles and close -up 01:00:13.099 --> 01:00:16.519 if you really want. Close -up uncut too. Where 01:00:16.519 --> 01:00:20.460 we, the show before the show. Lots of goodies 01:00:20.460 --> 01:00:25.809 on that page. So that's it for The Social Reckoning. 01:00:26.769 --> 01:00:34.269 It's alright. Thumbs down. Till next time. Take 01:00:34.269 --> 01:00:39.409 care. Ironic that we talk about social media 01:00:39.409 --> 01:00:42.150 bad and then we go, yeah, we're on social media.