Full Transcript for 11.5.26 Further Midterm Takeaways; True Footage's Jeremy Potter on Valuation Data; Oil and Inflation

in the home. 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:36.560 Hey, you have some data that doesn't jive within this data field or within these two data fields, then you're you're outside of a tolerance or you're outside of something that makes sense according to the public record. 00:02:36.719 --> 00:02:40.960 Can you please fix it now or explain it now while you're there in the home? 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:45.680 So that real-time analysis is gonna vastly improve the process. 00:02:45.759 --> 00:02:50.080 And I think what it means for lenders is getting a much better product. 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:56.400 Yes, the report gets better, but also just that real-time data, they can make decisions a whole lot faster. 00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:12.719 Thanks to this week's podcast sponsor, First Close, which helps financial institutions grow a successful home equity business with innovative solutions that minimize application drop-off, automate time-consuming processes, and reduce time to close from weeks to days. 00:03:13.039 --> 00:03:15.840 To learn more, visit firstclose.com. 00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:25.120 Is the American public a sucker for not being more concerned that no politician seems concerned about the burgeoning deficit? 00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:29.599 Will there be any fiscal conservatives in Congress or the White House? 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:38.240 Yes, everyone's talking about the election, and yesterday stocks rallied and rates dropped, reminding us that they don't have a consistent inverse relationship. 00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:41.520 Mostly on removing the uncertainty about the election. 00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:45.680 Where do we go with reducing regulatory burdens for creditworthy borrowers? 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:50.159 A mandate for the CFPB, FHA, VA, or banking regulators? 00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:51.520 What might happen to TRID? 00:03:51.759 --> 00:03:52.319 RESPA? 00:03:52.560 --> 00:03:54.639 Truth and Lending or ATR? 00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:57.360 Will ink signature requirements go away? 00:03:57.919 --> 00:03:58.639 Perhaps. 00:03:58.879 --> 00:04:01.120 What about credit and appraisal policies? 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:04.400 Will we see an expanded role for federal home loan banks? 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:06.479 Lots of questions are out there. 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:10.159 And I've been asked recently what I've seen on the non-agency side of things. 00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:14.319 Non-agency loan production has increased as a percentage of overall production. 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:16.319 There are other trends occurring as well. 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:25.519 For example, adjustable rate mortgages with rates around 80 basis points lower than fixed-rate loans are now accounting for 10% of applications, the highest it's been in a year. 00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:30.959 FHA, VA, and USDA products now account for about 30% of apps per the MBA. 00:04:31.199 --> 00:04:46.079 And applications should be helped now that the tenure treasury and shorter-term yields are at their lowest levels since early September, as falling oil prices and shifting political control in Congress fueled expectations of a quicker resolution to the Iran conflict and lower energy costs. 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:56.720 The decline in oil prices below$90 per barrel strengthened demand for government bonds, with treasury yields reaching their lowest levels in eight weeks, despite economic data pointing to continued but moderating growth. 00:04:56.959 --> 00:05:12.000 October's ISM services PMI eased slightly, signaling slower but still expansionary services activity, while ADP employment exceeded expectations with 86,000 jobs added, indicating continued resilience in the labor market ahead of tomorrow's payrolls report. 00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:26.720 The trade deficit narrowed slightly to$105 billion, driven by increases in both exports and imports, while the Treasury announced$125 billion in upcoming note and bond auctions and indicated that auction sizes would remain steady over the next several quarters. 00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:43.600 Rising mortgage rates since the US-Israel-Iran conflict began have nearly eliminated refinance incentives, with just 0.6% of 30-year borrowers able to reduce their rate by at least 50 basis points, pointing to further declines in 15 and 20-year MBS issuance, which relies heavily on refinancing. 00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:57.360 While the 30-year UMBS market has expanded 145% since 2019 to$5.35 trillion, outstanding 15 and 20-year balances have contracted 35% and 21% respectively from their May 2022 peaks. 00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:04.000 Shorter term borrowers generally have stronger credit profiles, smaller loan balances, and substantially more home equity. 00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:14.639 And their higher turnover and principal curtailments typically produce faster prepayment speeds than 30-year borrowers, making shorter duration MBS a shrinking but distinct segment of the market. 00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:33.920 For today's interview, I wanted to welcome back to the show TrueFootage's Jeremy Potter to talk about how technology and structured property data are transforming home appraisals by streamlining data collection, improving valuation accuracy and lender risk assessment, and allowing licensed appraisers to focus more on expert analysis and complex properties. 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:45.199 He's chief business officer at True Footage, which is a new type of appraisal company dedicated to delivering the most accurate home valuation possible at scale. 00:06:45.839 --> 00:06:55.040 Let's talk about the valuation of homes and the way that that has evolved over the years. 00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:55.759 It was a joke. 00:06:56.079 --> 00:06:57.279 I might have made it up myself. 00:06:57.439 --> 00:06:58.879 I'm notoriously not funny. 00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:01.759 That basically, oh, what's the appraised value of the house? 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:02.800 It's the purchase price. 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:06.319 And

subsequently, I became friends with some appraisers. 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:13.040 I realized some of my personal friends were actually appraisers, and they basically said we're trying to protect the value here for all the different interested parties in the equation. 00:07:13.120 --> 00:07:17.920 And I just want your thoughts on what the appraisal process has historically been. 00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:26.160 You know, you someone goes to a house, knocks on the door, gets chased by the dog, hopefully not bitten, finds some comps in the neighborhood, and boom, that's the the value. 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:37.279 And obviously I'm being very reductive there, but but we've evolved to where we have so much data, property data, and automated valuations are a lot better than they used to be. 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:39.279 But you're the expert, not me. 00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:43.920 Just the thoughts on thoughts on the evolution of appraising homes. 00:07:44.480 --> 00:08:02.480 When I was at Rocket Mortgage, you know, I used to try to understand what Fannie and Freddie thought of the appraisal process, what ops leaders and lenders thought about the appraiser process, met with appraisal management companies to understand their role, especially post-Dodd-Frank. 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:09.839 And then obviously to your question, met with appraisers and tried to understand what their day-to-day life is like. 00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:16.480 And I think the evolution has been what tools and technology do these licensed professionals need? 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:24.160 We've gone through almost every licensed professional in every industry and built tools or solutions for them. 00:08:24.319 --> 00:08:34.000 And I actually think appraisers were last on the list or one of the last few to actually get the benefit of some new data science, data technology. 00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:36.240 Uh, we're going to talk data collection a little bit. 00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:38.559 And then obviously the analysis. 00:08:38.799 --> 00:08:41.200 Their judgment is still the thing you're paying for. 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:52.320 You are paying for a licensed appraiser, professional expert to walk through the house, walk through future in a future state, walk through the data, look through a virtual house. 00:08:52.559 --> 00:08:58.879 However, they go about making their evaluation, they will apply their expertise to it. 00:08:59.039 --> 00:09:00.879 And that's actually what you're paying for. 00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:10.960 When you ask them about the evolution of their industry, they want to be taken seriously as the professional expert on property risk and property value. 00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:17.039 And so getting them there, I think in 2026 and beyond requires technology and data. 00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:24.399 We will get to Kelly Blue Book homes here in a minute, but you brought up the data future as it pertains to value. 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:26.639 What does that future look like

to you? 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:31.360 I think it looks like understanding the property more deeply. 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:39.600 So we want to know about value because that's the number one data field that is going to drive risk as it relates to lending, of course. 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:40.799 So that's what we're going to look at. 00:09:40.879 --> 00:09:42.399 What would the value come in at? 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:55.519 But in the future, adding contextual data, trended data, more intimate data about the house from an agent, from a homeowner, from the appraiser, or from a data collector is going to give us a much better picture. 00:09:55.679 --> 00:09:57.600 What is the overall story of this house? 00:09:57.759 --> 00:09:59.120 What is the property risk? 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:03.200 And valuation is a huge component of that, obviously, but it's not the only component. 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:05.600 I think we have to start looking at it more holistically. 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:09.840 Does it just mean that we get more granular in the ways that we're able to value homes? 00:10:09.919 --> 00:10:11.440 What are some of the other auxiliary benefits? 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:12.000 Absolutely. 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:21.039 I mean, the the evolution you talk about, the appraiser was walking around with a tape measure, a digital camera, and a clipboard for a long time, up until a few years ago. 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:30.000 And now we have apps native to the iPhone and the Android, apps native to an iPad that are collecting data much more accurately and holistically. 00:10:30.159 --> 00:10:34.080 So, first of all, you get a better picture of the house to begin with. 00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:38.720 Then you can actually put that up against real-time data in the neighborhood that you mentioned. 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:39.600 What are those comps? 00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:40.639 Why are they comps? 00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:44.480 Let's not look 120 days ago and find three. 00:10:44.720 --> 00:10:51.120 Let's go back over thousands of transactions over a couple of years and predict where's the trend line going? 00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:54.159 What does this tell us about this neighborhood? 00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:57.440 What is the data telling us about the trend? 00:10:57.600 --> 00:11:01.600 So uh an appraiser will come in and say, uh, here's what I think the risk is on this house. 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:04.399 Here's the value uh that that associates with. 00:11:04.639 --> 00:11:08.000 And also here's my analysis of what's going on in that area. 00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:09.600 And here's what you can expect. 00:11:09.759 --> 00:11:16.159 And I think lenders are going to really appreciate getting a much deeper look at a house than they're than they're used to. 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:22.799 This is obviously a very poignant topic because UAD 3.6 went into effect earlier this week. 00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:28.720 Yes, there's a lender waiver out there that that can will extend some of this into 2027. 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:45.759 But there's thoughts on the UAD 3.6 landscape that we are in appraisers from my perspective, a lot of grousing, but it's going to actually, once they get it down pat, it's going to make their process a lot smoother. 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:49.600 And so I think it's a heavy left to the beginning, but it's gonna be better later on. 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:52.960 Thoughts now that it's it's officially gone into effect. 00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:55.840 We've obviously been talking about it for seven or eight months here. 00:11:56.240 --> 00:12:00.720 Yeah, this is not it's a mistake to just look at this as a new appraisal report. 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:05.279 That what this is is actually a new way of communicating information about the house. 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:14.480 So we've spent the last however many years figuring out how to get better primary source data, structured data on individual people's finances, right? 00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:19.360 Income, assets, employment, all of these structures were put into place. 00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:20.320 How do we get this data? 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:25.279 How do we format it properly, get it into lenders as close to immediately as possible? 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:27.679 And we haven't done that same thing with the house. 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:28.639 That's what this does. 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:38.320 It gives us a language and it gives us a structure to pull the data as quickly as possible from the visit to our systems and have the appraiser look at that story. 00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:45.600 And instead of writing it up in, as I said, you know, freeform text boxes, it's communicating it in a structured way. 00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:55.440 And so this is just the beginning, frankly, because this infrastructure now gives us a whole new view of what are we talking about with this property and what should that then communicate about value? 00:12:55.679 --> 00:13:04.480 You brought up such an interesting point at the beginning of this interview that the appraisal process is the last thing to kind of be disrupted or pushed into the future. 00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:07.440 Yeah, it's the thing that takes the longest of the entire origin. 00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:10.399 Like, why has it taken so long when everybody's known? 00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:22.559 And I'm not saying that we're we're at any sort of appraisal utopia or valuation utopia at this point, but why is it taken so long for people to address this problem, which is the longest time delay causing in the entire process? 00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:29.360 I think this is one of those stories where there were several overlapping things that all drove longer time and poor communication. 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:38.960 One, lenders aren't that good at the house, lenders are good at risk analysis, like underwriting, and they're really good at sales and marketing and recruiting and referral sources, right?

00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:42.879 They weren't ever built to understand this type of risk. 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:45.840 This was always an independent function in the community. 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:48.000 And that's the second reason in the community. 00:13:48.159 --> 00:13:52.720 This was a highly localized, highly specialized to a geography or a market. 00:13:52.799 --> 00:14:04.320 So appraisers didn't scale because it they were typically fairly small shops and they covered a community or a state rather than being a scaled digital or national platform. 00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:15.679 And that's the last thing that's changing is you're seeing appraisal firms like True Footage and others scale nationwide, hire appraisers in every single market, be able to take orders across the country. 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:22.159 And I think that's a fundamental change for lenders, and it's going to dramatically uh improve the process for them too. 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:31.600 What does the appraiser of the future look like, or the uh the appraiser appraisal as a career path look like? 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:46.639 We're at a place where every single step of the mortgage origination process is is facing disruption or tech advancements, and and I guess the the pre-canned chatter would be well, you still need a human in the loop, and technology is going to make people that much more efficient and better. 00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:48.639 And I assume it's similar for the appraiser. 00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:50.879 What does the appraiser of the future look like? 00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:52.720 Is this still something that people should be saying? 00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:55.039 That's a that's a career path that that interests me. 00:14:55.360 --> 00:14:55.919 I think so. 00:14:56.080 --> 00:15:06.159 I think it's never been a better time to be an appraiser because a lot of the things that appraisers were annoyed by are getting taken off their plate so that they can actually do their job better. 00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:10.159 So, what we like to say at True Footage is let's make the experts more expert. 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:16.320 And what we mean by that is there are certain things Fannie and Freddie have said, we don't need an appraiser doing that. 00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:17.120 What is that? 00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:24.159 Well, one example we think is driving in their car for two to four to eight hours a week to these different properties. 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:32.799 And if you're gonna do eight, 10, 12, 16 appraisals a week, a lot of high-producing uh appraisers do, that is a lot of time in your car. 00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:37.120 Not every single house needs that level of care or attention. 00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:48.559 So I think the appraiser of the future actually looks like a data expert, like a data science analysis position, because they are gonna be given the look and feel of a house right to their console. 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:51.279 They're gonna be able to

feel as though they're walking through the house. 00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:56.000 And for the vast majority of properties, especially conventional financing, that's great. 00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:57.200 That's what we need. 00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:01.519 We still need the appraiser looking and seeing what is going on inside that house. 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:08.240 Quality and condition inside a house are one of the major drivers for what the value is gonna be, but they don't have to visit every house. 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:12.879 We can have someone visit the house and deliver them the data and the documentation of that house. 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:14.480 So that's one thing that's gonna change. 00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:18.159 And it'll be a lot more time digging into the analysis. 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:24.320 Second, conventional financing is pretty narrow and getting more narrow as home prices continue to go up. 00:16:24.480 --> 00:16:30.159 So one of the things we've not done well in mortgage or housing is expand to more complex things. 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:41.039 The appraiser is the perfect profession to help us with condos, fix and flip, renovation, construction, a lot of things that we are still struggling with in the mortgage industry to get right. 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:49.200 The appraiser can help actually create processes that cut down the risk and improve the efficiency of those more complicated property types. 00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:58.639 And as you know, Robbie, I've come on this program and talked a lot about shared equity, down payment assistance, other things that fractionalize the value or ownership of a house. 00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:01.360 Well, what do you need to be able to create those products? 00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:08.160 You need a real-time value of the house if you have investors who want to know what's my stake worth today, what's my stake worth tomorrow? 00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:10.880 Appraisers are well positioned for those types of things. 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:23.279 So we're hoping that we get efficiency getting these everyday loans right so that we can elevate the appraiser and get them working on these really complex properties, of which we have a lot of in this industry. 00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:25.599 So we'll we'll transition slightly here. 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:26.960 You mentioned true footage. 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:29.200 You also mentioned Kelly Blue Book. 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:32.720 I know you're you're here on behalf of Kelly Blue Book, but when I email you, it goes to TrueFootage. 00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:37.039 Can you clear up the what's going on and what's what's the latest with Jeremy Potter? 00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:37.759 I'd love to. 00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:41.680 True Footage is an appraisal firm, so not an appraisal management company. 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:44.400 We actually have W-2 appraisers that work for us. 00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:49.759 We have uh almost 150 nationwide, and we do traditional appraisal services for lenders. 00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:55.279 So you can order your appraisal either through an AMC or through an ordering platform right to us. 00:17:55.440 --> 00:18:01.759 That's why we had to build this 3.6 technology, and that's why we're so excited about this new data environment coming online. 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:07.680 Our appraisers are ready to go, and our appraisal services and our technology for lenders is ready to go. 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:18.400 That company found out that uh after doing appraisals for six and a half years, VC funded one of the VC investors was the owner of Kelly Blue Book Auto. 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:24.559 So our CEO went to the Kelly Blue Book Auto folks and said, Have you ever thought about extending this to houses? 00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:28.799 Turns out it was the hundredth anniversary of Kelly Blue Book Auto. 00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:29.920 So it was the perfect year. 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:31.279 There's a lot of symmetry there. 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:33.680 It was the perfect year to bring it to houses. 00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:43.839 And so using the appraiser expertise and the appraisal platform, we're able to give homeowners and real estate agents a look at what an appraiser might think of the house. 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:45.440 It's not an appraisal report. 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:48.880 Obviously, that is purchased by the buyer and goes to the lender. 00:18:49.200 --> 00:19:09.039 This is an electronic valuation report that consumers can see for free at KellyBluebookHomes.com, but we're trying to bring that appraiser mindset more to the forefront so that homeowners and real estate agents trust that what they're getting from the true footages of the world is something that they can actually rely on and transact on. 00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:14.720 So our Kelly Blue Book Home Reports aim to be within 3% of the ultimate sales price of your house. 00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:21.039 And if we're not in your state yet, coming soon, but we're in about 25 states and growing, and we'll be nationwide by February. 00:19:21.279 --> 00:19:26.640 Yeah, I was going to say you you launched August 1st and it's it's going to be nationwide within a year, which is great. 00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:32.960 We'll bring this full circle to close since we talk data collection and then data advancement. 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:43.039 The synergies between the data and the programs and the software and everything that Kelly Blue Book has when it comes to valuations in general that can now be applied to housing. 00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:52.720 You kind of alluded to why it's a good marriage, but can you take us inside just like the nuts and bolts of what advantages Kelly Blue Book inherently has with the platform it's it's had for the last hundred plus years? 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:53.359 Sure. 00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:58.640 One of the things that consumers trust is they trust the brand and they know the brand.

00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:02.319 So if this was the Potter data company, consumers would be like, what is this? 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:03.039 What's behind this? 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:03.680 Who's there? 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:11.599 But having been in the lives of generations of people, they know this brand is there to try to give me the best independent view. 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:16.559 And as with the cars, you have private sale and dealer sale, two different prices. 00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:17.599 That gives you a range. 00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:20.960 You start to understand pricing is generally a range. 00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:25.920 There is, at the end of the day, going to be a contract price, there's going to be an appraised value. 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:28.720 But on the way there, there's a lot of negotiating that happens. 00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:34.960 And so we've leveraged a lot of that same structure from the auto side to say, answer some questions about your house. 00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:39.680 Tell us a little bit more about this asset, this product, and then we'll give you a range. 00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:45.279 And that range looks something like do you want to sell really fast and do nothing to your house? 00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:46.559 You'll probably get this number. 00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:51.680 Do you want to work with a professional, get it ready, do the steps on the checklist to get the highest amount? 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:52.160 Great. 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:53.440 You'll probably get this number. 00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:59.279 And that gives homeowners an understanding of how much work do I want to put in for what return for what reward? 00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:02.799 Some people want to go fast and sell immediately, no work included. 00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:07.279 And some people want to work with a professional agent and get there, uh, get that highest number. 00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:16.880 And how how does this ultimately tie in to where the industry is headed in terms of we're seeing more and more property appraisal waivers? 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:21.119 This should allow for better ranges of valuation. 00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:24.480 Your thoughts to bring everything together before I say goodbye. 00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:30.400 Yeah, we know that Wall Street and RMBS investors don't want the appraiser removed from the process. 00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:35.279 Everybody agrees certain properties get the GSE waiver, and there's a reason why. 00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:37.920 We've done a refi in this house in the last few years. 00:21:38.079 --> 00:21:39.440 It's a fairly new house. 00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:41.599 We know enough about it, there's not a risk here. 00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:45.440 Don't send an appraiser to that house for a full price appraisal. 00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:48.160 That's become pretty common knowledge in the industry. 00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:51.839 But what we see is that can only be a portion of the industry. 00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:59.440 Otherwise, the lack of data going into the system creates worse and worse output for these engines. 00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:10.000 And so we know investors and risk managers want appraisers telling us what is the value of this house and appraising both houses and communities. 00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:13.839 So I think the future is you can actually get the best of both worlds. 00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:24.480 You can have a proactive, efficient appraisal done by an expert licensed appraiser, and you can get it as quickly as you would get feedback from an engine. 00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:35.920 And Wall Street investors, our MBS investors, Fannie and Freddie, still get that expert sign-off uh that we need, but you get it in the speed that the modern finance system demands. 00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:39.920 The best of both worlds, the best of all worlds, whenever you and I get together. 00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:45.519 For people that want more of Jeremy, you can check him out every Monday on Now Next Later, a Chrisman commentary show. 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:46.960 Jeremy, I always appreciate the time. 00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:47.519 Thank you, sir. 00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:48.559 Thanks, Robbie. 00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:49.839 Talk to you soon. 00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:53.920 Today's economic calendar kicked off with U.S. 00:22:54.000 --> 00:23:00.240 employers announcing 43,994 job cuts in October 2026 per challenger grain Christmas. 00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:11.680 The figure was up 2% from September, but down 71% year over year, marking the lowest October total since 2023, and the eighth month this year with fewer cuts than the same month in 2025. 00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:21.200 Other releases today include preliminary Q3 productivity and unit labor costs, initial claims, and Feder marks from Richmond President Barkin and Dallas President Logan. 00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:30.559 We began the day with agency MBS prices roughly unchanged from Wednesday's close, the two-year yielding 4.60, and the 10-year yielding 4.88 after closing yesterday at 4.89%. 00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:35.680 Let's wrap up with a joke and some housekeeping. 00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:38.559 I got fired from my job at a bank yesterday. 00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:41.519 Some elderly lady asked me to check her balance. 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:43.119 So I pushed her over. 00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:49.119 Thanks again to First Close for sponsoring this week's podcast. 00:23:49.599 --> 00:24:00.960 First Close helps financial institutions grow a successful home equity business with innovative solutions that minimize application drop-off, automate time-consuming processes, and reduce time to close from weeks to days. 00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:04.079 To learn more, please visit firstclose.com.