Full Transcript for Really Bad Influence

--> 00:05:15.199 Thank God my daughters have chosen different career paths. 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:22.240 I don't know what I would do if I had an 18-year-old daughter who said, I'm gonna take off my clothes and go live in the bob house. 00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:56.720 Yeah, like and those people consider themselves influencers too because you they get like they get non-stop like ratings and stuff on like on various social media platforms and so on and so forth, or and they paint themselves out to be uh almost like goddesses when in reality I uh I think the only way to say it is they it screams like I'm a professional stripper, I have chosen a new age form of prostitution as my career path. 00:05:56.959 --> 00:06:00.240 Yeah, it's have you no have you no shame? 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:16.319 I mean, not to be judgmental, you know, as I say you do you boo, but it's really more the pick me culture that people, and this is like a good segue into the whole definition of influence, is just because you're popular. 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:26.720 And I've been involved in social media since 2005, and I used to have conversations with clients because I do have a marketing company, and they would say, Should I buy likes? 00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:31.920 To which I would always respond, Did you sleep with everybody on your football team in high school? 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:34.720 And they're like, No, why would why would I do that? 00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:45.680 And I said, Because you would become instantly popular, but that didn't mean doesn't mean that you actually have substance or something to offer the world other than a vagina. 00:06:45.839 --> 00:06:47.759 Can I say vagina on your podcast? 00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:50.480 I I have zero no filter whatsoever. 00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:55.920 Although I have been a gynecologist, so I grew up talking about vaginas at the dinner table. 00:06:56.079 --> 00:06:57.759 So okay then. 00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:00.079 Yeah, no, I have no filter. 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:10.160 Uh, you'll hear a lot of cursing out of my mouth, but I have been told uh by other like uh podcasters and guests I've had cut back on the F and Jeffin don't like swear. 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:14.800 So no, I'm not a good to it, it's potty mouth, but you know, I'm from New York. 00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:16.079 I have no filter. 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:19.199 A a well-placed F-bomb never hurts. 00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:20.560 Yes, yeah, yeah. 00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:34.000 And so here's the thing about uh influencers, like I mean, I I gotta say the name itself is rather almost new to me, and I'm 31 years old, for Cripe's sake. 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:53.040 Uh says a little bit about how out of touch certain cultural things uh for me, but it it kind of aggravates me a bit when people like say like their career path, oh, I'm an influencer and stuff like that. 00:07:53.199 --> 00:08:00.800 Oh, I've got like two million likes on YouTube, or I am going, I am a TikTok

star, as you said earlier. 00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:09.279 I'm like, okay, but what kind of influence are you actually having on the world, on society? 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:11.279 How are you contributing? 00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:13.759 Yeah, and here are some fun facts. 00:08:14.079 --> 00:08:27.120 75% of high school kids say they want to be influencers when they grow up, which is just ridiculous, which segues into the second fact that the average salary for influencers is$15,000 a year. 00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:33.360 That's the average, which means some people are making less and some people are making more, but only 1%. 00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:44.720 You know, you talk about the one percenters of the very rich, it's only 1% of digital influencers or whatever you want to call them ever really make it to the big leagues. 00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:51.279 So having worked in marketing most of my career, um, I often equate it to the Super Bowl. 00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:56.639 That if you're a big brand and you advertise on the Super Bowl, you will get a lot of eyeballs. 00:08:56.799 --> 00:08:58.159 There is no question about it. 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:00.639 You will get a lot of awareness and exposure. 00:09:00.799 --> 00:09:06.960 But how many of those people will actually go to the store or go online and buy your product? 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:15.039 So if you are going to be a product as a human, you really do have to think about what is your end game. 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:19.759 Because likes are not in and of themselves currency. 00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:25.919 They can be parlayed into currency, but you still need a strategic plan of how you're going to do that. 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:35.039 And I rebranded this year, um I created a personal brand for myself, Nancy AF, and NancyAF.com. 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:41.519 And my priority is not big numbers of eyeballs and earballs, as I call them. 00:09:41.759 --> 00:10:04.960 It's the right eyeballs and earballs that will ultimately result in paid speaking engagements, possibly a paid role on a TV show where I'm dispensing relevant information, getting hired by clients to do their social media, specifically AI-generated social media. 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:06.960 So there's an end game. 00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:09.759 It's not just about being popular. 00:10:09.919 --> 00:10:14.480 And I think I'm able to have that view because I was never the popular kid. 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:20.320 I was the chubby, weird, geeky girl who people knew as being nice and funny. 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:27.120 And I would take nice and funny any day over popular now that I'm 69 years old. 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:32.960 Because I've been on this planet for a long time and I see what happens to the popular kids. 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:37.120 I'm still friends with some of the popular kids from my elementary school. 00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:49.279 We geeks are doing way better financially and psychologically than the kid who won

the most popular badge at the school dance. 00:10:49.919 --> 00:10:50.240 Yeah. 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:56.960 Decent number of the popular kids I went to school with uh ended up uh having kids by the age of 21. 00:10:57.200 --> 00:11:06.080 And well, uh let's just say they look on it with the level of both regret but of joy, but also regret. 00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:12.639 One girl, she uh took her 10 years just to get an associate's degree. 00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:14.320 Yeah, no, I I get it. 00:11:14.399 --> 00:11:33.200 I mean, and that's one of the things that I really do love about aging, and we're living in a culture where aging is seen as a negative, and young women are pumping their faces full of Botox and filler and doing all kinds of weird things to their bodies because of their fear of aging. 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:56.320 And I can say with 100% certainty that I am a much better person now at 69 than I was at 19 or 29 or 39 or 49 or 59, because I have financial independence, wisdom, freedom, like all the stuff that you don't have when you're young and perspective. 00:11:56.639 --> 00:11:57.120 Yeah. 00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:12.240 The one of the reasons one of the things that I look at with influencing that I uh kind of feeds in like to the whole idea of like you're not really marketing anything, you're not really uh you're not making any revenue or income from it. 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:15.759 And if you are, it's a pretty mundane uh amount. 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:20.399 Is I feel that it's just people getting high on ego. 00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:28.000 They see these numbers and they're like, oh my god, I am number one, I am the most awesome person there is. 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:31.200 I'm like, it's an ego fest. 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:33.519 You're getting high off of your own narcissism. 00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:35.840 Yeah, best seller on Amazon. 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:42.240 Okay, did you just get a movie deal or a book deal, or did you just figure out how to fool the algorithm? 00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:56.240 Um, it really is kind of sad, and it is a false sense of popularity and fame, which is why I really make it a point of spending a good chunk of every day offline rather than online. 00:12:56.480 --> 00:13:08.159 I have dual citizenship in the analog and digital world because I do find that if I spend too much time watching and listening to these people, and she's been wildly successful. 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:22.960 I don't ever shit talk other women entrepreneurs, but Mel, I just listened to a Mel Robbins podcast yesterday, and before the podcast conversation started, she did commercials and she read a commercial for insurance. 00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:27.840 And I'm like, ooh, like would I ever do that just to make money? 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:43.039 Like, what because what happens is when you get to that volume of followers, you become the Super Bowl, and then people say, I'd like you to endorse this product, and I never endorse

anything unless I've used the product myself and I like it. 00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:46.159 Will that change over the next five, 10 years? 00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:57.840 Maybe, but you probably would not hear my voice saying, I love all-state insurance, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, just because to me that is selling out. 00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:04.159 And, you know, I do think that shilling for products is a viable way to make money. 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:13.360 Even the A-list celebrities will do it, but they're agents and they are selective in terms of what they will market and promote. 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:17.440 Like George Clooney, Nespresso, great product. 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:20.960 You know, I drink Nespresso coffee when I travel. 00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:23.279 That to me is not selling out. 00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:29.919 But yeah, when you start like talking about the virtues of insurance, like that gets a little icky. 00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:33.039 Like, if they paid me a lot of money, would I do it? 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:34.720 Uh I don't I don't know. 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:35.519 I don't know. 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:40.080 I mean, you got Kevin Hart doing like the whole DraftKings sports book and stuff like that. 00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:44.720 But you can tell that he's got a certain level of enthusiasm and positive energy towards it. 00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:46.960 He's not doing it just because his agents signed him on. 00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:50.559 They're like, oh, they're gonna pay you like a ton of money. 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:59.679 Uh no, you can tell that there's a certain level of uh selectivity and uh precise decision making when it comes to the whole marketing thing. 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:05.759 A good friend of mine, Emily Steele, launched a business called um Hummingbirds. 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:20.080 And it's a genius concept because what they do is they find people who are already raving fans of products and they compensate them with product to give their like genuine testimonials. 00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:22.799 So um I think it's a genius idea. 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:32.000 It's turning the influencer model on its head and saying rather than finding some TikTok person who's got a million followers and doesn't care. 00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:40.399 In fact, I had an intern once who was promoting Dunkin' Donuts, and in one of her videos, she was holding the cup with the logo backwards. 00:15:40.559 --> 00:15:43.440 And people are like, oh, she's just being real and genuine. 00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:50.399 I'm like, if I were the Dunkin' Donuts CMO, I would fire her on the spot because that is your brand. 00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:53.440 Like, she doesn't even know enough to turn the cup. 00:15:53.600 --> 00:16:02.960 I even, at 69 years old, I even know how to switch a video around or make sure that a product looks good when you're dancing around with it. 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:10.399 But that is one of the problems with influencer marketing, is you have a lot of people who will do anything just for the dollar. 00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:14.720 And then you and I were talking about this earlier before we went on air. 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:22.240 You could be young, you could be hot, you could be good to look at, but where are you going to be 10 or 15 years from now? 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:32.240 Um, and you know, I as women get older, they're like, oh, well, then I'll just become a mom fluencer, or then I'll just become a grandfluencer. 00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:41.200 And it's like, no, you have to like have some substance first, and then you will never age out of the sphere of influence. 00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:42.159 Yeah. 00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:43.120 Yeah. 00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:55.759 And I mean, I think one of the best like uh examples of, I guess we might say really the toxicity of influencing is the story of uh Piper Raquel, who was like a YouTube sensation and stuff like that. 00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:57.840 Now she's an OnlyFans stripper. 00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:14.319 Yeah, and if you look at the suicide rate among social media stars, it's actually pretty shocking because it's no different from, you know, traditional Hollywood celebrities who all of a sudden lost their luster. 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:20.079 Um, you know, and I again that's one of the advantages and curses of being old. 00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:23.599 Like I remember people who were very hot in the day. 00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:28.319 You know, there was one SNL actor, and I was watching Law and Order SVU. 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:37.279 Not that that's a bad gig, but he was like doing a Frank Sinatra impersonation at a nursing home, and I was like furiously Googling, going, Who is that? 00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:38.960 Because you look so familiar. 00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:44.240 But yeah, I mean, there is nothing new in this world, which is the reality. 00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:50.240 The only thing that's changed is the media, but the principles of media are truly timeless. 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:55.759 I mean, looking started born, like this is the fourth time they've made it. 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:56.480 Yeah. 00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:14.400 Which blows my mind and also disappoints me because it's another example of something that I've harped on uh tirelessly to other filmmakers, and also on my podcast is the idea, the the clear fact that Hollywood has officially run out of ideas. 00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:21.200 They have no other option at this point but to recycle stuff from the past, uh, regardless of how many times it was made. 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:22.559 I'm like three times. 00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:25.759 This dates back to the era of Judy Garland, for Cripe's sake. 00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:27.200 I believe she was before that. 00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:33.359 There was there was a version of a Star is Born before the Judy Garland version, which I didn't realize. 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:51.359 But I like

that movie, and I did like the Bradley Cooper Lady Gaga version of it because I thought it, but you know, I I think a a lot of younger people think that they invented this stuff as opposed to looking at the legacy. 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:57.279 Like I just read um one of the most popular Christmas movies. 00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:00.240 Um The Angels. 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:02.319 It's a wonderful life. 00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:04.240 That's my favorite Christmas movie. 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:06.640 I cry at the end of it every time I watch it. 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:08.160 And I've watched it so many times. 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:16.000 So he published it as a greeting card, and then a producer saw it and said, Oh my god, this is a great story. 00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:18.160 And as a movie, it flopped. 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:19.680 Same with Wizard of Oz. 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:23.440 Was not a Hollywood hit when it first came out. 00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:41.920 So I urge any storyteller, filmmaker, writer to look back at the past and see how people in the 1930s, 1940s were getting greenlit and how their stuff is still alive and well to this day. 00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:48.720 Like, do you want to be a one-hit win wonder, or do you want people to still be watching you 30, 50 years from now? 00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:53.119 Clearly, you want people to be watching you like 70 years from now. 00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:59.440 They you want it to be immortal or or like eat yeah, or just endless. 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:00.799 Some people don't. 00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:10.240 Some people want to just the the OnlyFans Bop house girls, they just want to cash out, invest their money, and not work again for the rest of their lives. 00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:16.880 And again, as I like to say, you do you boo, but if it was my daughter, I would not be happy. 00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:17.920 Yeah, yeah. 00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:19.279 I definitely agree with you. 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:28.240 Learn how to fix a robot, you know, pick a career that is truly a timeless career that doesn't involve stripping. 00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:33.359 And that's the problem with the new generation, which I think I'm just disappointed with them. 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:46.559 Like I tell people, and there are definitely some, a lot of people actually do agree with me, not everybody, but some do, that millennials, my generation, we are the last working generation in this country where all that's really left. 00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:57.279 Because if you look at like most Gen Z and of course, like uh our offspring, they were born into a world of absolute and total privilege. 00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:07.119 They don't even know what the definition of hard work is because like they're not asking for Legos when they're eight years old, they're asking for an iPad. 00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:08.000 Yeah, they're giving us. 00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:13.519 I'm gonna be a little bit of a devil's advocate here as a mother and a grandmother. 00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:13.839 Yeah. 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:25.039 And as somebody who is truly age blind and doesn't like categorizing categorizing people based on the date on their birth certificate, I think it all ultimately boils down to responsible parenting. 00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:38.000 And I just came back from visiting my daughters and their kids in Maryland and just watching how they're raising their kids with Erend, you know, Erendlip up on the refrigerator. 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:41.599 I mean, in a lot of ways, they're like 1950s housewives. 00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:47.599 You know, they're my two year old granddaughter has to clean up her toys before she's allowed to play with a new one. 00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:49.920 They limit their kids' screen time. 00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:59.680 So I do think that we as individuals have the power and the res, dare I say, responsibility to create a next generation of doers. 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:01.440 And thinkers. 00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:06.319 So privilege, perception of privilege is something that's created. 00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:08.559 It's not something you're born with. 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:28.960 And in that in today's day and age, it almost behooves, I love that word, parents would go against the grain and say, no, I don't care if every kid in your class has a cell phone, you're not getting one, you're getting a gizmo with parental controls, which is what my daughter did with her nine-year-old daughter. 00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:37.759 Yeah, and I feel that that uh being given that uh when they are, that's the poison behind it. 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:40.319 That is where the toxicity really lies. 00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:44.799 Like the moment that they find out about TikTok, they're like, what is this? 00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:46.480 Oh my God, I'm so intrigued. 00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:55.039 And they just, I saw a great interview with Josh Brolin, and he said when it comes to acting, he's like, I do it for the love of the craft. 00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:56.640 He does it because he still likes movie making. 00:22:56.799 --> 00:22:59.039 He's like, this new generation, they just want to get famous. 00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:00.720 And he's absolutely right. 00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:02.319 Yeah. 00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:17.839 But again, you can't vilify, I mean, you can do whatever you want, but like vilifying an entire generation is just not fair because otherwise, you could do the same thing to me and say 69-year-old women who live in Arizona just want to play pickleball and golf. 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:21.759 I am proof positive that that is not the case. 00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:26.960 So, you know, that is my holiday wish for 2026. 00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:32.400 And I do think AI will help with that because AI looks for the commonalities. 00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:37.279 It doesn't care about your demographic, it cares about your behaviors. 00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:39.200 You like

movies, I like movies. 00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:41.680 You like horror movies, I like horror movies. 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:56.079 You and I have the exact same view of influencers, and that is what we should be focusing on, the things that bring us together as opposed to the things that are perceived as being generational. 00:23:56.559 --> 00:24:13.200 And yes, there is a generational influence, that's always been the case, but that would be like people back in the 1960s and 70s when I grew up saying, you know, all girls with long crazy hair who wear halter tops are hippie, stupid hippie slots. 00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:19.359 Whereas I was in the top 10% of my graduating class and went on to do great things. 00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:28.799 So I think we're living in a world that needs to stop putting people in boxes of perception and really get to know people as individuals. 00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:30.720 So yeah, I agree. 00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:44.079 And another thing that I think is like a problem with influencers is that they kind of cut people out from society, from like uh the social world we live in. 00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:54.960 Um, I watched a documentary um called Child Star, and they interviewed a bunch of like young kids and stuff, uh, and asked them, what's your favorite thing to watch? 00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:59.119 And they're like, YouTube, YouTube, influencers, TikTok, YouTube. 00:24:59.839 --> 00:25:04.880 Like it, and that's that's kind of, I don't wanna say it's an addiction. 00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:22.720 Like you said, it does depend on how you're raised and stuff, but if you have constant exposure and develop this obsession with it, it basically puts you in this bubble or this locked cage where it's all you know, and it is what all what a lot of people really know. 00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:27.920 If you look at the way things are today, like people are not as social as they used to be and stuff. 00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:38.000 Everything is on your phone, everything's on your iPad, the internet is endless, it creates this cage, and I don't think that's healthy under any circumstances, especially from actually. 00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:48.720 Putting down the small screen. 00:25:49.039 --> 00:26:04.720 I am going out to the movies tonight to see a great story being told on a big screen with a big, well, with a small bag of fresh popcorn with the artificial toxic butter on it, because that is my guilty pleasure. 00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:07.359 But I think that everybody has an obligation. 00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:12.319 I mean, again, nobody has to do anything other than, as they used to say, pay taxes and die. 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:30.880 But I do think that if you take one thing away from this podcast episode, is look at your own behaviors, look at your own biases, put down, and now I will drop an F-bomb, put down the fucking foam and get out into the real world and interact with real life humans. 00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:32.240 Yeah. 00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:44.079 I've come learned, uh, and I'm not I'm not the only one, uh, people I've had as uh guests on my podcast and others I uh other people who I know, like through work and stuff. 00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:57.920 I prefer these days I to just you to use like Instagram and Facebook as more of a marketing tool uh and an advertisement and networking system than the way it used to be. 00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:07.200 Because if you look, this is one thing that's really toxic about social media, is that that's how people also get their news from. 00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:10.960 That's what influences them, is social media in general. 00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:24.559 They're not it kind of and because of how social media, the algorithms and uh the perception, the manipulation behind it, what you can't tell if this news is true or not. 00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:26.720 Yeah, and it didn't start out that way. 00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:33.039 I've been using social media since 2005, which was the first year it fell into the hands of adults. 00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:36.400 And back then, it was exactly what you're saying. 00:27:36.559 --> 00:27:43.680 It was a marketing tool, it was a connection tool, it was, and I'm still very, very active on LinkedIn. 00:27:43.839 --> 00:27:48.720 It's a great place to make business connections, like really meaningful business connections. 00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:51.599 So I never knew it at the beginning. 00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:54.319 That was all it really was to me. 00:27:54.640 --> 00:28:10.160 And then it became the social, weird social network, and then the sphere of influence emerged, which I call the no talent talent show, where anybody with a camera can dance and say, Oh, now I'm a star. 00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:18.799 And I just laugh when I look at it, because back in the era when I grew up, if you wanted to be on stage in a talent show, you needed to audition. 00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:30.160 And people who knew better than you did would say, Oh, she's got talent, which is why I was always like character actor in big bit parts, because I didn't have acting talent in my youth. 00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:33.920 I was a director and a prop master and a writer. 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:41.440 Um, and so my acting years didn't even begin until I started speaking at professional conferences. 00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:55.920 But um, yeah, we're living in this world where everything has become kind of homogenized, and anybody who has a million followers thinks that they are popular and they have talent because they have a million followers. 00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:59.119 But then when I say to them, well, who are your fans? 00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:05.119 they have no idea because it's all about the sheer volume as opposed to the quality. 00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:12.799 So I will sometimes call myself a coinfluencer because the circle of influence is small, but it's quality. 00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:16.960 Yeah, I saw a uh uh what is

it in that same documentary, Child Star. 00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:22.960 I saw an interview with a former child star, uh I think Jojo something, I can't remember. 00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:30.319 Uh, but she said she became at one point she became obsessed with numbers, and that's kind of uh also where one of the problems lies. 00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:33.200 Like, as you said, like who are your followers? 00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:34.400 Well, I don't really know. 00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:49.519 They just see the numbers keep going up and up and up, and that's all that matters to them because that's what fuels the ego, that's what fuels the personification of fame, of being a TikTok star, of being a famous YouTuber. 00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:58.960 And some of these people, they go to like special premieres and red carpet events where actual like Hollywood icons are there. 00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:05.279 And I've heard stories like they'll try and associate themselves with, I think, like people like Leo DiCaprio. 00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:08.480 He literally walks away, he gives them the cold shoulder instantly. 00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:11.920 Yeah, no, I totally, I totally, totally get it. 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:20.240 Yeah, and also when you get to those numbers, when you have a million randos following you, you get trolled. 00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:30.640 Um, I have know somebody who, and look at again, I'm not getting political, but our our leaders today are all about rage baiting. 00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:37.680 They love putting really provocative, outrageous stuff out there just to get conversations going. 00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:45.359 But I grew up in an era where you can say something provocative, but that doesn't mean that it's mean-spirited or abusive. 00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:55.119 Like, you know, I put content out about the use of AI and responsible AI, and I know that it's going to give rise to intelligent debate. 00:30:55.359 --> 00:31:00.480 There's a difference between intelligent debate and random, stupid trolling. 00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:06.799 And two guys who I, one of whom I know, got into like a pissing contest on my Facebook wall. 00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:14.880 And I finally had to just say, I call it pulling a moe of the three stooges when he used to knock Shemp and Curly's heads together. 00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:21.519 Where I was like, boys, would you just keep your ridiculous schoolyard brawl off of my Facebook wall? 00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:33.519 Because I want this to be a place of peace and intelligent debate, not of two assholes showing which one is a again, now I'm gonna get really foul mouth, has a is a bigger dick swinger. 00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:36.000 Like this doesn't belong on my page. 00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:38.799 I'm all for intelligent discussion and debate. 00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:44.240 And I've had strong feelings about things and have been proven wrong and have changed my views. 00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:55.759 If intelligent people have given me a different perspective, but this whole like wow, wow, wah, shit talking, rage baiting, trolling, it's just not my jam. 00:31:56.079 --> 00:32:01.279 Yeah, I mean, I I I guess I might have learned the hard way. 00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:04.400 Like, I understand that rage and the trolling on your social media. 00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:11.519 Like, I used to be quite politically vocal on my Facebook page in general, and I would get a lot of backlash. 00:32:11.599 --> 00:32:20.720 I and I eventually I got called a Nazi and an anti-Semite because I do not agree with what's going on in the Middle East right now, and that was the camel, the straw that broke the camel's back. 00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:30.559 That's when I really woke up and realized that this is like a MA breeding ground, uh kind of just shit fest. 00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:33.599 That's all it really, that's all Facebook has really become. 00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:43.200 You know that if you take a political stance, the world is gonna blow up. 00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:52.480 I had a guest on my podcast, Helene Brick Cabbage, who's a divorce attorney, and all she did was say something very innocuous about Melania's prenup. 00:32:52.880 --> 00:33:00.640 And within an hour, we had 3,000 trolls making comments about her personal appearance, stuff that had nothing. 00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:06.000 And this is a very, very competent, well-respected matrimonial attorney. 00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:11.920 And we took the episode down just because neither of us wanted that toxicity in our lives. 00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:14.799 And my podcast producer was livid. 00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:17.599 He's like, Why did you remove that post? 00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:27.920 And I said, I want to live in a place of peace and happiness, and I don't really care what these randos have to say about my friend's face or my face. 00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:31.680 Like, this is not the conversation we're having right now. 00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:35.759 You know, we're talking about an intelligent legal topic. 00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:38.240 We're not talking about our faces. 00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:41.680 Like, have we have we completely lost our minds? 00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:44.160 So, um, yeah, great topic. 00:33:44.319 --> 00:34:02.720 I mean, we could go on for another couple of hours talking about the influencer bubble, but you know, if people take away anything from this, it's just to really, you know, as you and I were saying, you know, take a step all the way back and say, what do I want my legacy to be? 00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:09.199 If I got hit by a car tomorrow, would people stand up at my funeral and go, oh, I really loved her TikToks? 00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:16.880 Or would they say, oh, she was so kind, she was so helpful, she was an inspiration to my career and my life. 00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:20.239 I would choose the latter over the former any day. 00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:21.440 Yeah, yeah. 00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:28.880

Me, I like I never label myself under any circumstances as an influencer via my podcast. 00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:33.039 I'm not trying to like influence people or stuff like that. 00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:48.639 I'm trying to just kind of like shed a little light on how media has really warped and manipulated society, movies, television, and of course, like I said, this new craze of supposed celebrities, which is influencers. 00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:55.039 Yeah, and everybody who's really there's a movie that I I love and I resonate with very deeply. 00:34:55.119 --> 00:34:56.159 It's called A Good Person. 00:34:56.400 --> 00:35:01.679 I don't know if you've seen it, but the main character, Allie, uh, has a line in it. 00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:07.280 It's my favorite line because I think simply just because of the tone, she's like, You don't like it? 00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:09.360 She's who did the who made you do this? 00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:10.960 She's like an influencer. 00:35:11.119 --> 00:35:12.400 She influenced me. 00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:33.599 And the way she says it in that kind of sarcastic, almost like drunken tone, is the perfect kind of spit in the face to the influencer community of like, you really are not having as much of an impact on our world as you truly believe you are. 00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:36.079 But it is totally pervasive. 00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:52.960 And I was just in Sephora this weekend, and they have end cap displays that said things like the product that's blowing up on TikTok, and I deliberately avoided those displays, and instead I asked the salesperson what product was right for me. 00:35:53.599 --> 00:36:03.440 Um but uh yeah, a a book that I just recommended to you that I think is amazing and that people should really pick up and read or listen to. 00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:08.800 It's called Cue the Sun, and it's about the evolution of reality TV. 00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:27.519 And starting back in the 1930s with Candid Radio going all the way up to The Apprentice, and it's a it's a heavy book, but it really is a great encapsulation of how the reality TV and influencer culture came to be. 00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:28.639 Yeah, yeah. 00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:37.840 It definitely, I don't want to say it just clearly, you know, from your knowledge and years of experience, it's not something that just popped out of thin air. 00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:51.920 It was almost a movement in and of itself that quite rapidly consumed society and literally made a cement block on the internet and it stuck there. 00:36:52.079 --> 00:37:00.639 And I'm not saying we need to get rid of it or anything, but we definitely need to find a better way to kind of control it. 00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:10.079 Yeah, I mean, Australia has the right idea where they set age limits on social media because, and again, it comes down to good parenting. 00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:37.519 I know that sounds very as a good way to wrap things up, is to say, as a grandmother

of four young children and a mother of two, I am now witnessing firsthand in a good way what parents can do if they want to raise their children to be good people and people who can function in the analog world and not just on the digital planet. 00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:42.639 So if anything, I'm spent I'm the one who's spending too much time in the digital world. 00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:48.559 And after we hang up, I'm going to go out, beautiful sunny day in Arizona. 00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:54.320 I'm gonna put down my phone and I'm gonna enjoy humans as opposed to technology. 00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:54.960 Yeah. 00:37:55.199 --> 00:38:01.440 Well, here it's raining, so I don't exactly have the pleasure of like going out and like I'm not one to sing in the rain. 00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:02.960 I'm not Gene Kelly. 00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:05.360 Shoot your next movie here in Arizona. 00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:08.800 It's lovely and uh possibly. 00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:10.239 Uh what is it? 00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:20.000 One film that uh our the director for the film I'm currently working on, he uh he wants to make a movie, and I think we may end up filming it. 00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:23.440 He wants me to be involved, which is definitely great. 00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:26.880 Uh so makes a that's one thing. 00:38:26.960 --> 00:38:30.000 Like, I'm gonna get just into the to the industry. 00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:36.480 Like, for all you influencers who think you're famous, okay, let's take a world into the real world of film industry. 00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:39.679 We have to work hard to get where we want to be. 00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:42.320 And a lot of it does depend on luck. 00:38:42.480 --> 00:39:02.880 When a director who you are very new with and working on, when they say, when they when they say, like, hey, I'd like you to be involved in my next project, my next film, and here's so-and-so cast and what I have in mind, that means you have really influenced them in a positive way. 00:39:03.039 --> 00:39:12.000 You have shown them that you are doing this, like Josh Bolin said, for the love of the craft, because I like making movies. 00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:22.320 I want to tell stories that are going to resonate with people, that are going to impact people, that are going to maybe make them think a little outside of the box, even if the content is controversial. 00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:29.599 But when you get that that thumbs up, that big kind of high five, that means you have influenced someone. 00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:30.880 Love that, love that. 00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:35.360 That is a great, great closing, closing concept. 00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:35.920 Love that. 00:39:36.559 --> 00:39:37.760 Yes, yeah. 00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:38.960 Yes. 00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:47.199 And uh, for all of you out there, all you media junkies, uh, if you want to support this podcast, have a chance to be a guest on the show. 00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:58.400 You can follow me on Instagram at ATK Media and check me out on uh Spotify, uh, Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, wherever it is you get your podcast from. 00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:04.079 Don't forget to tune into Nancy's uh podcast, uh Age Blind. 00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:08.639 Uh, I'm sure you will definitely learn a lot of very light important life lessons. 00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:13.679 And also, like with the movies I make, make you open up your mind a bit more. 00:40:13.840 --> 00:40:15.440 Look at things from a whole new angle. 00:40:15.679 --> 00:40:19.199 And you could also find me at nancyaf.com. 00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:26.639 That is my personal brand website, and I'm on Instagram as NancyAF underscore. 00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:31.679 And you could follow my link tree to see all the rest of my content. 00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:34.719 And as I said, we all have a day job. 00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:43.360 My day job is marketing consulting with an eye toward applying AI to solve very human and real problems. 00:40:43.519 --> 00:40:47.920 Um, and that company is called the OnSwitch, which has been around for 22 years. 00:40:48.239 --> 00:40:52.400 Same logo, talk about things that withstand the test of time. 00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:57.440 And my tagline is Bright and Timeless Marketing, and I am truly timeless. 00:40:57.599 --> 00:41:01.760 And as I said earlier, the only new thing is the media. 00:41:02.079 --> 00:41:12.000 What's real and what's genuine and what's talent transcends time and space, and that will all shake out in the end. 00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:14.320 Yes, I totally agree. 00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:19.119 Well, folks, till next time, stay high in life. 00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:19.920 Out. 00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:23.440 Hey folks, how y'all doing? 00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:24.400 I'm El Tessier. 00:41:24.559 --> 00:41:26.239 Welcome to another episode of Shadow Box. 00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:39.280 Joining me today is author, host of the podcast Age is Blind, uh, public speaker, and major influence for the betterment of society and those that uh live in this realm, Nancy Shankar. 00:41:39.440 --> 00:41:40.800 Nancy, great to have you on the show. 00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:41.760 Thank you so much. 00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:42.880 I love your description. 00:41:43.039 --> 00:42:10.559 The podcast is actually age blind, um, but age is blind, and I will be turning 70 in February, and I'm just getting started because I finally have the wisdom, the experience, the chops, the energy to really channel my old hippie chick vibe and take a look at what's going on in our world today and do my small part to change, to flip the script, as they say. 00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:14.960 Just remember what Michelle Yeo said when she won an Academy Award. 00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:17.599 Nobody is ever uh out of their prime. 00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:19.360 I believe that's her that was her words. 00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:20.239 No shame. 00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:26.159 Meaning it doesn't matter how old you are,

you will have your time will come. 00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:29.199 Sometimes it's unexpected, sometimes it's pure luck. 00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:38.880 I mean, one of the best examples, in my opinion, would be uh uh uh oh god, I can't remember his name. 00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:43.360 Uh uh the actor from the naked gun movies. 00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:45.280 Oh, yeah, Leslie Nielsen. 00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:46.320 Leslie Nielsen. 00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:55.519 Leslie Nielsen didn't get his big hit until he was like 50-something in the movie Airplane, and next thing you know, he's a comedy icon for the remainder of his career. 00:42:55.840 --> 00:42:59.840 Or Grandma Moses didn't start painting until her later years. 00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:09.599 And I've been keeping a running list of people who either were rejected multiple times, and then we were just talking about Mad Men, Matthew Weiner. 00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:15.920 How many networks rejected that script before he actually was able to get green lit? 00:43:16.400 --> 00:43:18.960 So um, it's never too late. 00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:27.440 My mother lived to 95, my grandmother lived to 99, I come from a long line of badass women, I've been mastering AI. 00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:29.440 I am just getting started. 00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:30.800 Yeah. 00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:32.559 Yeah, no, trust me. 00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:36.480 And that's that's another thing, definitely a story for another day. 00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:42.960 Cause like if you hear the stories about people who I think a lot of them look at it as definitely pure luck. 00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:48.880 Stephen King got rejected, I think, by like 55 publishers before they gave him the thumbs up for Carrie. 00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:57.280 And whoever those people are who rejected them, they're probably deceased now, uh, probably lived the rest of their life with a level of regret based on his success. 00:43:57.519 --> 00:43:58.320 Oh, absolutely. 00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:05.360 It's a woman, you know, who's Lived through a lot of shit since I got out of college in 1977. 00:44:05.679 --> 00:44:08.880 I was Peggy Olsen for all intents and purposes. 00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:17.199 I am really kind of obsessed in a good way with women who are making change later in life. 00:44:18.079 --> 00:44:30.159 Because this is the first generation of women who had economic independence and the balls to say, no, I don't like what's going on in the world. 00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:31.679 I'm going to make change. 00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:35.840 And if women like me are not leading the charge, then who is? 00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:37.119 Like it pains me. 00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:50.880 And I know we're going to be talking about influencers, but just look at the sheer number of young women who are choosing OnlyFans as a career because they think the only thing that they have to market are their breasts and their bodies. 00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:52.639 Where it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:44:52.719 --> 00:44:58.800 Like what kind of world are we living in where that is a viable career path for young women? 00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:02.400 Thank God my daughters have chosen different career paths. 00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:09.440 I don't know what I would do if I had an 18-year-old daughter who said, I'm going to take off my clothes and go live in the Bob House. 00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:14.639 Yeah, like and those people consider themselves influencers too. 00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:24.960 Because they get non-stop like ratings and stuff on like on various social media platforms and so on and so forth. 00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:39.199 And they paint themselves out to be uh almost like goddesses when in reality I uh I think the only way to say it is they it screams like I'm a professional stripper. 00:45:39.440 --> 00:45:43.840 I have chosen a new age form of prostitution as my career path. 00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:47.360 Yeah, it's have you no have you no shame? 00:45:48.559 --> 00:45:50.559 I mean, not to be judgmental, you know. 00:45:50.639 --> 00:46:03.519 As I say, you do you boo, but it's really more the pick me culture that people, and this is like a good segue into the whole definition of influence, is just because you're popular. 00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:13.840 And I've been involved in social media since 2005, and I used to have conversations with clients because I do have a marketing company, and they would say, Should I buy likes? 00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:19.119 To which I would always respond, Did you sleep with everybody on your football team in high school? 00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:21.920 And they're like, No, why would why would I do that? 00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:32.880 And I said, Because you would become instantly popular, but that didn't mean, doesn't mean that you actually have substance or something to offer the world other than a vagina. 00:46:33.039 --> 00:46:34.960 Can I say vagina on your podcast? 00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:37.679 I I have zero no filter whatsoever. 00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:43.119 Although I have been a gynecologist, so I grew up talking about vaginas at the dinner table. 00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:44.880 So okay then. 00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:47.280 Yeah, no, I have no filter. 00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:57.360 Uh you'll hear a lot of cursing out of my mouth, but I have been told uh by other like uh podcasters and guests I've had cut back on the F and Jeff and don't like swear. 00:46:57.440 --> 00:47:01.920 So no, I'm not a gratuitous potty mouth, but you know, I'm from New York. 00:47:02.079 --> 00:47:03.280 I have no filter. 00:47:03.760 --> 00:47:06.400 A well-placed F-bomb never hurts. 00:47:06.639 --> 00:47:07.679 Yes, yeah, yeah. 00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:21.119 And so here's the thing about uh influencers, like I mean, I I gotta say the name itself is rather almost new to me, and I'm 31 years old, for Cripe's sake. 00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:40.239 Uh says a little bit about how out of touch certain cultural things uh for me,

but it it kind of aggravates me a bit when people like say like their career path, oh, I'm an influencer and stuff like that. 00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:47.920 Oh, I've got like two million likes on YouTube, or I am going, I am a TikTok star, as you said earlier. 00:47:48.079 --> 00:47:56.400 I'm like, okay, but what kind of influence are you actually having on the world, on society? 00:47:56.559 --> 00:47:58.480 How are you contributing? 00:47:58.960 --> 00:48:00.960 Yeah, and here are some fun facts. 00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:14.239 75% of high school kids say they want to be influencers when they grow up, which is just ridiculous, which segues into the second fact that the average salary for influencers is$15,000 a year. 00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:20.559 That's the average, which means some people are making less and some people are making more, but only 1%. 00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:31.920 You know, you talk about the one percenters of the very rich, it's only 1% of digital influencers or whatever you want to call them ever really make it to the big leagues. 00:48:32.079 --> 00:48:38.480 So having worked in marketing most of my career, um, I often equate it to the Super Bowl. 00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:43.840 That if you're a big brand and you advertise on the Super Bowl, you will get a lot of eyeballs. 00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:45.360 There is no question about it. 00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:47.760 You will get a lot of awareness and exposure. 00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:54.159 But how many of those people will actually go to the store or go online and buy your product? 00:48:54.480 --> 00:49:02.159 So if you are going to be a product as a human, you really do have to think about what is your end game. 00:49:02.480 --> 00:49:06.960 Because likes are not in and of themselves currency. 00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:13.119 They can be parlayed into currency, but you still need a strategic plan of how you're going to do that. 00:49:13.280 --> 00:49:22.239 And I rebranded this year, um, I created a personal brand for myself, Nancy AF and NancyAF.com. 00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:28.719 And my priority is not big numbers of eyeballs and earballs, as I call them. 00:49:28.880 --> 00:49:52.079 It's the right eyeballs and earballs that will ultimately result in paid speaking engagements, possibly a paid role on a TV show where I'm dispensing relevant information, getting hired by clients to do their social media, specifically AI-generated social media. 00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:54.159 So there's an end game. 00:49:54.400 --> 00:49:56.880 It's not just about being popular. 00:49:57.039 --> 00:50:01.599 And I think I'm able to have that view because I was never the popular kid. 00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:07.519 I was the chubby, weird, geeky girl who people knew as being nice and funny. 00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:14.239 And I would take nice and funny any day over popular now that I'm 69 years old. 00:50:14.559 --> 00:50:20.159 Because I've been on this planet for a long time and I see what happens to the

popular kids. 00:50:20.320 --> 00:50:24.320 I'm still friends with some of the popular kids from my elementary school. 00:50:25.599 --> 00:50:36.400 We geeks are doing way better financially and psychologically than the kid who won the most popular badge at the school dance. 00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:37.440 Yeah. 00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:44.159 Decent number of the popular kids I went to school with uh ended up uh having kids by the age of 21. 00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:53.360 And well, uh let's just say they look on it with the level of both regret but of joy, but also regret. 00:50:53.599 --> 00:50:59.760 One girl, she uh took her 10 years just to get an associate's degree. 00:51:00.159 --> 00:51:01.440 Yeah, no, I I get it. 00:51:01.599 --> 00:51:20.320 I mean, and that's one of the things that I really do love about aging, and we're living in a culture where aging is seen as a negative, and young women are pumping their faces full of Botox and filler and doing all kinds of weird things to their bodies because of their fear of aging. 00:51:20.480 --> 00:51:43.440 And I can say with 100% certainty that I am a much better person now at 69 than I was at 19 or 29 or 39 or 49 or 59, because I have financial independence, wisdom, freedom, like all the stuff that you don't have when you're young and perspective. 00:51:43.840 --> 00:51:44.320 Yeah. 00:51:44.639 --> 00:51:55.039 The one of the reasons one of the things that I look at with influencing that I uh kind of feeds in, like to the whole idea of like you're not really marketing anything. 00:51:55.199 --> 00:51:59.440 You're not really uh you're not making any revenue or income from it. 00:51:59.519 --> 00:52:02.880 And if you are, it's a pretty mundane uh amount. 00:52:03.199 --> 00:52:07.599 Is I feel that it's just people getting high on ego. 00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:15.199 They see these numbers and they're like, oh my god, I am number one, I am the most awesome person there is. 00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:18.400 I'm like, it's an ego fest. 00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:20.719 You're getting high off of your own narcissism. 00:52:21.119 --> 00:52:23.039 Yeah, best seller on Amazon. 00:52:23.199 --> 00:52:29.440 Okay, did you just get a movie deal or a book deal, or did you just figure out how to fool the algorithm? 00:52:29.679 --> 00:52:43.440 Um, it really is kind of sad, and it is a false sense of popularity and fame, which is why I really make it a point of spending a good chunk of every day offline rather than online. 00:52:43.599 --> 00:52:55.360 I have dual citizenship in the analog and digital world because I do find that if I spend too much time watching and listening to these people, and she's been wildly successful. 00:52:55.519 --> 00:53:10.159 I don't ever shit talk other women entrepreneurs, but Mel, I just listened to a Mel Robbins podcast yesterday, and before the podcast conversation started, she did commercials and she read a commercial for insurance. 00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:15.039 And I'm like, ooh, like would I ever do that just to make money? 00:53:15.280 --> 00:53:20.639 Like, what because what happens is when you get to that volume of followers, you become the Super Bowl. 00:53:20.719 --> 00:53:23.760 And then people say, I'd like you to endorse this product. 00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:30.239 And I never endorse anything unless I've used the product myself and I like it. 00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:33.360 Will that change over the next five, 10 years? 00:53:33.599 --> 00:53:44.960 Maybe, but you probably would not hear my voice saying, I love all state insurance, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, just because to me that is selling out. 00:53:45.280 --> 00:53:51.280 And, you know, I do think that shilling for products is a viable way to make money. 00:53:51.519 --> 00:54:00.480 Even the A-list celebrities will do it, but their agents and they are selective in terms of what they will market and promote. 00:54:00.639 --> 00:54:04.559 Like George Clooney, Nespresso, great product. 00:54:04.719 --> 00:54:08.079 You know, I drink Nespresso coffee when I travel. 00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:10.400 That to me is not selling out. 00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:17.119 But yeah, when you start like talking about the virtues of insurance, like that gets a little icky. 00:54:17.360 --> 00:54:20.239 Like, if they paid me a lot of money, would I do it? 00:54:20.320 --> 00:54:21.840 Uh I don't I don't know. 00:54:22.239 --> 00:54:22.719 I don't know. 00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:27.280 I mean, you got Kevin Hart doing like the whole DraftKings sports book and stuff like that. 00:54:27.519 --> 00:54:31.920 But you can tell that he's got a certain level of enthusiasm and positive energy towards it. 00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:37.679 He's not doing it just because his agents signed him on and they're like, oh, they're gonna pay you like a ton of money. 00:54:37.840 --> 00:54:46.800 Uh no, you can tell that there's a certain level of uh selectivity and uh precise decision making when it comes to the whole marketing thing. 00:54:47.119 --> 00:54:52.880 A good friend of mine, Emily Steele, launched a business called um Hummingbirds. 00:54:53.039 --> 00:55:07.280 And it's a genius concept because what they do is they find people who are already raving fans of products and they compensate them with product to give their like genuine testimonials. 00:55:07.519 --> 00:55:09.920 So um I think it's a genius idea. 00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:19.119 It's turning the influencer model on its head and saying rather than finding some TikTok in person who's got a million followers and doesn't care. 00:55:19.280 --> 00:55:27.599 In fact, I had an intern once who was promoting Dunkin' Donuts, and in one of her videos, she was holding the cup with the logo backwards. 00:55:27.760 --> 00:55:30.639 And people were like, oh, she's just being real and genuine. 00:55:30.800 --> 00:55:37.519 I'm like, if I were the Dunkin' Donuts CMO, I would fire her on the spot because that is your brand. 00:55:37.840 -->

00:55:40.559 Like, she doesn't even know enough to turn the cup. 00:55:40.719 --> 00:55:50.079 I even, at 69 years old, I even know how to switch a video around or make sure that a product looks good when you're dancing around with it. 00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:57.599 But that is one of the problems with influencer marketing, is you have a lot of people who will do anything just for the dollar. 00:55:57.920 --> 00:56:01.920 And then you and I were talking about this earlier before we went on air. 00:56:02.159 --> 00:56:09.360 You could be young, you could be hot, you could be good to look at, but where are you going to be 10 or 15 years from now? 00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:19.440 Um, and you know, I as women get older, they're like, oh, well, then I'll just become a mom fluencer, or then I'll just become a grandfluencer. 00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:28.400 And it's like, no, you have to like have some substance first, and then you will never age out of the sphere of influence. 00:56:28.639 --> 00:56:29.280 Yeah. 00:56:29.840 --> 00:56:30.320 Yeah. 00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:42.880 And I mean, I think one of the best like uh examples of, I guess we might say really the toxicity of influencing is the story of uh Piper Raquel, who was like a YouTube sensation, stuff like that. 00:56:43.039 --> 00:56:45.039 Now she's an OnlyFans stripper. 00:56:45.519 --> 00:57:01.519 Yeah, and if you look at the suicide rate among social media stars, it's actually pretty shocking because it's no different from, you know, traditional Hollywood celebrities who all of a sudden lost their luster. 00:57:01.679 --> 00:57:07.280 Um, you know, and I again that's one of the advantages and curses of being old. 00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:10.800 Like I remember people who were very hot in the day. 00:57:10.960 --> 00:57:15.519 You know, there was one SNL actor, and I was watching Law and Order SVU. 00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:24.400 Not that that's a bad gig, but he was like doing a Frank Sinatra impersonation at a nursing home, and I was like furiously Googling, going, Who is that? 00:57:24.480 --> 00:57:26.079 Because you look so familiar. 00:57:26.320 --> 00:57:31.360 But yeah, I mean, there is nothing new in this world, which is the reality. 00:57:31.599 --> 00:57:37.360 The only thing that's changed is the media, but the principles of media are truly timeless. 00:57:37.599 --> 00:57:42.880 I mean, look at started porn, like this is the fourth time they've made it. 00:57:43.119 --> 00:57:43.679 Yeah. 00:57:44.000 --> 00:58:01.519 Which blows my mind and also disappoints me because it's another example of something that I've harped on uh tirelessly to other filmmakers, and also on my podcast is the idea, the the clear fact that Hollywood has officially run out of ideas. 00:58:01.679 --> 00:58:08.400 They have no other option at this point but to recycle stuff from the past, uh, regardless of how many times it was made. 00:58:08.480 --> 00:58:09.760 I'm like three times. 00:58:09.920 --> 00:58:12.960

This dates back to the era of Judy Garland, for Cripe's sake. 00:58:13.039 --> 00:58:14.400 I believe she was before that. 00:58:14.480 --> 00:58:20.559 There was there was a version of a Star is Born before the Judy Garland version, which I didn't realize. 00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:38.559 But I like that movie, and I did like the Bradley Cooper Lady Gaga version of it because I thought it, but you know, I I think a a lot of younger people think that they invented this stuff as opposed to looking at the legacy. 00:58:38.719 --> 00:58:44.480 Like I just read um one of the most popular Christmas movies. 00:58:44.719 --> 00:58:48.400 Um The Angel Life. 00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:51.360 That's my favorite Christmas movie. 00:58:51.519 --> 00:58:53.840 I cry at the end of it every time I watch it. 00:58:54.079 --> 00:58:55.280 And I've watched it so many times. 00:58:56.400 --> 00:59:03.199 So he published it as a greeting card, and then a producer saw it and said, Oh my god, this is a great story. 00:59:03.280 --> 00:59:05.280 And as a movie, it flopped. 00:59:05.440 --> 00:59:06.880 Same with Wizard of Oz. 00:59:07.039 --> 00:59:10.639 It was not a Hollywood hit when it first came out. 00:59:10.880 --> 00:59:29.039 So I urge any storyteller, filmmaker, writer to look back at the past and see how people in the 1930s, 1940s were getting greenlit and how their stuff is still alive and well to this day. 00:59:29.280 --> 00:59:35.840 Like, do you want to be a one-hit win wonder, or do you want people to still be watching you 30, 50 years from now? 00:59:36.159 --> 00:59:40.320 Clearly, you want people to be watching you like 70 years from now. 00:59:40.480 --> 00:59:46.639 They you want it to be immortal or or like eat, yeah, or just endless. 00:59:47.199 --> 00:59:47.920 Some people don't. 00:59:48.239 --> 00:59:57.440 Some people want to just the the OnlyFans Bop House Girls, they just want to cash out, invest their money, and not work again for the rest of their lives. 00:59:57.519 --> 01:00:04.079 And again, as I like to say, you do you boo, but if it was my daughter, I would not be happy. 01:00:04.400 --> 01:00:05.119 Yeah, yeah. 01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:06.480 I definitely agree with you. 01:00:06.880 --> 01:00:15.360 Learn how to fix a robot, you know, pick a career that is truly a timeless career that doesn't involve stripping. 01:00:15.760 --> 01:00:20.559 And that's the problem with the new generation, which I think I'm just disappointed with them. 01:00:20.719 --> 01:00:32.159 Like I tell people, and there are definitely some, a lot of people actually do agree with me, not everybody, but some do, that millennials, my generation, we are the last working generation in this country. 01:00:32.239 --> 01:00:33.760 We're all that's really left. 01:00:33.840 --> 01:00:44.400 Because if you look at like most Gen Z and of course, like uh our offspring, they were born into a world of absolute and total privilege. 01:00:44.559 --> 01:00:54.320 They don't even know what the definition of hard work is because like they're not asking for Legos when they're eight years old, they're asking for an iPad. 01:00:54.639 --> 01:01:00.719 Yeah, and I'm gonna be I'm gonna be a little bit of a devil's advocate here as a mother and a grandmother. 01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:01.039 Yeah. 01:01:01.199 --> 01:01:08.239 And as somebody who is truly age-blind and doesn't like categorizing, categorizing people based on the date on their birth certificate, yeah. 01:01:08.480 --> 01:01:12.239 I think it all ultimately boils down to responsible parenting. 01:01:12.400 --> 01:01:25.119 And I just came back from visiting my daughters and their kids in Maryland and just watching how they're raising their kids with Erend, you know, Erend Lit up on the refrigerator. 01:01:25.280 --> 01:01:28.800 I mean, in a lot of ways, they're like 1950s housewives. 01:01:29.039 --> 01:01:34.800 You know, they're my two-year-old granddaughter has to clean up her toys before she's allowed to play with a new one. 01:01:34.960 --> 01:01:37.119 They limit their kids' screen time. 01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:48.559 So I do think that we as individuals have the power and the dare I say responsibility to create a next generation of doers and thinkers. 01:01:48.880 --> 01:01:53.519 So privilege, perception of privilege is something that's created. 01:01:53.599 --> 01:01:55.679 It's not something you're born with. 01:01:56.000 --> 01:02:16.159 And in that in today's day and age, it almost behooves, I love that word, parents to go against the grain and say, no, I don't care if every kid in your class has a cell phone, you're not getting one, you're getting a gizmo with parental controls, which is what my daughter did with her nine-year-old daughter. 01:02:17.280 --> 01:02:24.960 Yeah, and I feel that that uh being given that uh when they are, that's the poison behind it. 01:02:25.119 --> 01:02:27.440 That is where the toxicity really lies. 01:02:27.599 --> 01:02:31.920 Like the moment that they find out about TikTok, they're like, What is this? 01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:33.599 Oh my god, I'm so intrigued. 01:02:33.840 --> 01:02:42.159 And they just I saw a great interview with Josh Brolin, and he said when it comes to acting, he's like, I do it for the love of the craft. 01:02:42.239 --> 01:02:43.840 He does it because he still likes movie making. 01:02:43.920 --> 01:02:47.920 He's like, this new generation, they just want to get famous, and he's absolutely right. 01:02:48.960 --> 01:02:49.519 Yeah. 01:02:49.760 --> 01:03:05.039 But again, you can't vilify, I mean, you can do whatever you want, but like vilifying an entire generation is just not fair because otherwise, you could do the same thing to me and say 69-year-old women who live in Arizona just want to play pickleball and golf. 01:03:05.199 --> 01:03:08.960 I am proof positive that that is not the case. 01:03:09.199 --> 01:03:14.159 So, you know, that is my holiday wish for 2026. 01:03:14.320 --> 01:03:19.599

And I do think AI will help with that because AI looks for the commonalities. 01:03:19.840 --> 01:03:24.480 It doesn't care about your demographic, it cares about your behaviors. 01:03:24.719 --> 01:03:26.400 You like movies, I like movies. 01:03:26.559 --> 01:03:28.880 You like horror movies, I like horror movies. 01:03:29.119 --> 01:03:43.280 You and I have the exact same view of influencers, and that is what we should be focusing on, the things that bring us together as opposed to the things that are perceived as being generational. 01:03:43.679 --> 01:04:00.400 And yes, there is a generational influence, that's always been the case, but that would be like people back in the 1960s and 70s when I grew up saying, you know, all girls with long crazy hair who wear halter tops are hippie, stupid hippie slots. 01:04:00.559 --> 01:04:06.480 Whereas I was in the top 10% of my graduating class and went on to do great things. 01:04:06.800 --> 01:04:15.920 So I think we're living in a world that needs to stop putting people in boxes of perception and really get to know people as individuals. 01:04:16.239 --> 01:04:17.920 So I agree. 01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:31.199 And another thing that I think is like a problem with influencers is that they kind of cut people out from society, from like uh the social world we live in. 01:04:31.440 --> 01:04:42.079 Um, I watched a documentary um called Child Star, and they interviewed a bunch of like young kids and stuff, uh, and asked them, what's your favorite thing to watch? 01:04:42.239 --> 01:04:46.320 And they're like, YouTube, YouTube, influencers, TikTok, YouTube. 01:04:46.960 --> 01:04:52.000 Like it and that's that's kind of, I don't wanna say it's an addiction. 01:04:52.159 --> 01:05:09.920 Like you said, it does depend on how you're raised and stuff, but if you have constant exposure and develop this obsession with it, it basically puts you in this bubble or this locked cage where it's all you know, and it is what all what a lot of people really know. 01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:15.119 If you look at the way things are today, like people are not as social as they used to be and stuff. 01:05:15.280 --> 01:05:25.199 Everything is on your phone, everything's on your iPad, the internet is endless, it creates this cage, and I don't think that's healthy under any circumstances, especially for next year. 01:05:26.320 --> 01:05:35.920 You know, and that's something that I've been working really, really hard on is putting down the device, putting down the small screen. 01:05:36.239 --> 01:05:51.840 I am going out to the movies tonight to see a great story being told on a big screen with a big well, with a small bag of fresh popcorn with the artificial toxic butter on it, because that is my guilty pleasure. 01:05:52.079 --> 01:05:54.559 But I think that everybody has an obligation. 01:05:54.719 --> 01:05:59.280 I mean, again, nobody has to do anything other than, as they used to say, pay taxes and die. 01:06:00.079 --> 01:06:11.039 I do think that if you take one thing away from this podcast episode, is look at your own behaviors, look at your own biases, put down, and now I will drop an F bomb. 01:06:11.440 --> 01:06:18.000 Put down the fucking phone and get out into the real world and interact with real life humans. 01:06:18.800 --> 01:06:19.360 Yeah. 01:06:19.760 --> 01:06:31.280 I've come to learned, uh, and I'm not I'm not the only one, uh, people I've had as uh guests on my podcast and others I uh other people who I know like through work and stuff. 01:06:31.440 --> 01:06:45.119 I prefer these days I to just you to use like Instagram and Facebook as more of a marketing tool uh and an advertisement and networking system than the way it used to be. 01:06:45.440 --> 01:06:54.320 Because if you look, this is one thing that's really toxic about social media, is that that's how people also get their news from. 01:06:54.480 --> 01:06:58.079 That's what influences them is social media in general. 01:06:58.320 --> 01:07:11.760 They're not it kind, and because of how social media, the algorithms and uh the perception, the manipulation behind it, what you can't tell if this news is true or not. 01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:13.920 Yeah, and it didn't start out that way. 01:07:14.079 --> 01:07:20.239 I've been using social media since 2005, which was the first year it fell into the hands of adults. 01:07:20.559 --> 01:07:23.519 And back then, it was exactly what you're saying. 01:07:23.679 --> 01:07:30.800 It was a marketing tool, it was a connection tool, it was, and I'm still very, very active on LinkedIn. 01:07:30.960 --> 01:07:35.920 It's a great place to make business connections, like really meaningful business connections. 01:07:36.159 --> 01:07:38.800 So I never knew it at the beginning. 01:07:38.960 --> 01:07:41.519 That was all it really was to me. 01:07:41.760 --> 01:07:57.360 And then it became the social, weird social network, and then the sphere of influence emerged, which I call the no talent talent show, where anybody with a camera can dance and say, Oh, now I'm a star. 01:07:57.519 --> 01:08:06.000 And I just laugh when I look at it, because back in the era when I grew up, if you wanted to be on stage in a talent show, you needed to audition. 01:08:06.159 --> 01:08:17.359 And people who knew better than you did would say, Oh, she's got talent, which is why I was always like character actor in big bit parts, because I didn't have acting talent in my youth. 01:08:17.439 --> 01:08:21.039 I was a director and a prop master and a writer. 01:08:21.279 --> 01:08:28.640 Um, and so my acting years didn't even begin until I started speaking at professional conferences. 01:08:28.960 --> 01:08:43.119 But um, yeah, we're living in this world where everything has become kind of homogenized, and anybody who has a million followers thinks that they are popular and they have talent because they have a million followers. 01:08:43.199 --> 01:08:46.239 But then when I say to

them, Well, who are your fans? 01:08:46.479 --> 01:08:52.239 they have no idea because it's all about the sheer volume as opposed to the quality. 01:08:52.479 --> 01:08:59.760 So I will sometimes call myself a quinfluencer because the circle of influence is small, but it's quality. 01:09:00.319 --> 01:09:04.079 Yeah, I saw a uh uh what is it in that same documentary, Child Star. 01:09:04.560 --> 01:09:10.079 I saw an interview with a former child star, uh I think Jojo something, I can't remember. 01:09:10.239 --> 01:09:17.439 Uh, but she said she became at one point she became obsessed with numbers, and that's kind of uh also where one of the problems lies. 01:09:17.680 --> 01:09:20.319 Like, as you said, like who are your followers? 01:09:20.399 --> 01:09:21.600 Well, I don't really know. 01:09:21.760 --> 01:09:36.720 They just see the numbers keep going up and up and up, and that's all that matters to them because that's what fuels the ego, that's what fuels the personification of fame, of being a TikTok star, of being a famous YouTuber. 01:09:36.960 --> 01:09:46.079 And some of these people, they go to like special premieres and red carpet events where actual like Hollywood icons are there. 01:09:46.479 --> 01:09:52.399 And I've heard stories like they'll try and associate themselves with I think like people like Leo DiCaprio. 01:09:52.640 --> 01:09:55.680 He literally walks away, he gives them the cold shoulder instantly. 01:09:56.000 --> 01:09:59.039 Yeah, no, I totally, I totally, totally get it. 01:09:59.199 --> 01:10:07.359 Yeah, and also when you get to those numbers, when you have a million randos following you, you get trolled. 01:10:07.680 --> 01:10:17.760 Um I have know somebody who, and look at again, I'm not getting political, but our our leaders today are all about rage baiting. 01:10:17.920 --> 01:10:24.880 They love putting really provocative, outrageous stuff out there just to get conversations going. 01:10:25.199 --> 01:10:32.560 But I grew up in an era where you can say something provocative, but that doesn't mean that it's mean-spirited or abusive. 01:10:32.800 --> 01:10:42.239 Like, you know, I put content out about the use of AI and responsible AI, and I know that it's going to give rise to intelligent debate. 01:10:42.479 --> 01:10:47.680 There's a difference between intelligent debate and random, stupid trolling. 01:10:47.840 --> 01:10:54.000 And two guys who I, one of whom I know, got into like a pissing contest on my Facebook wall. 01:10:54.159 --> 01:11:08.720 And I finally had to just say, I call it pulling a moe of the three stooges when he used to knock Shemp and Curly's heads together, where I was like, boys, would you just keep your ridiculous schoolyard brawl off of my Facebook wall? 01:11:08.960 --> 01:11:20.560 Because I want this to be a place of peace and intelligent debate, not of two assholes showing which one is a, again, now I'm gonna get really foul mouthed, has a is a bigger dick swinger. 01:11:20.800

--> 01:11:23.119 Like this doesn't belong on my page. 01:11:23.279 --> 01:11:26.000 I'm all for intelligent discussion and debate. 01:11:26.159 --> 01:11:31.439 And I've had strong feelings about things and have been proven wrong and have changed my views. 01:11:31.680 --> 01:11:42.960 If intelligent people have given me a different perspective, but this whole like wow, wow, wah, shit talking, rage baiting, trolling, it's just not my jam. 01:11:43.199 --> 01:11:48.399 Yeah, I mean I I I guess I might have learned the hard way. 01:11:48.479 --> 01:11:51.600 Like, I understand that rage and the trolling on your social media. 01:11:51.680 --> 01:11:58.720 Like, I used to be quite politically vocal on my Facebook page in general, and I would get a lot of backlash. 01:11:58.800 --> 01:12:07.920 I and I eventually I got called a Nazi and an anti-Semite because I do not agree with what's going on in the Middle East right now, and that was the camel, the straw that broke the camel's back. 01:12:08.000 --> 01:12:17.680 That's when I really woke up and realized that this is like a MAG breeding ground uh kind of just shit fest. 01:12:17.920 --> 01:12:20.800 That's all it really, that's all Facebook has really become. 01:12:25.920 --> 01:12:30.399 You know that if you take a political stance, the world is gonna blow up. 01:12:30.479 --> 01:12:39.600 I had a guest on my podcast, Helene Brick Cabbage, who's a divorce attorney, and all she did was say something very innocuous about Melania's prenup. 01:12:40.079 --> 01:12:47.840 And within an hour, we had 3,000 trolls making comments about her personal appearance, stuff that had nothing. 01:12:48.159 --> 01:12:53.199 And this is a very, very competent, well-respected matrimonial attorney. 01:12:53.279 --> 01:12:59.119 And we took the episode down just because neither of us wanted that toxicity in our lives. 01:12:59.279 --> 01:13:01.920 And my podcast producer was livid. 01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:04.720 He's like, Why did you remove that post? 01:13:04.880 --> 01:13:14.960 And I said, I want to live in a place of peace and happiness, and I don't really care what these randos have to say about my friend's face or my face. 01:13:15.680 --> 01:13:18.800 Like, this is not the conversation we're having right now. 01:13:19.039 --> 01:13:22.960 You know, we're talking about an intelligent legal topic. 01:13:23.119 --> 01:13:25.439 We're not talking about our faces. 01:13:25.600 --> 01:13:28.880 Like, yeah, have we have we completely lost our minds? 01:13:29.279 --> 01:13:31.359 So, um, yeah, great topic. 01:13:31.439 --> 01:13:49.840 I mean, we could go on for another couple of hours talking about the influencer bubble, but you know, if people take away anything from this, it's just to really, you know, as you and I were saying, you know, take a step all the way back and say, what do I want my legacy to be? 01:13:50.000 --> 01:13:56.399 If I got hit by a car tomorrow, would people stand up at my funeral and go, oh, I really loved her TikToks? 01:13:56.720 --> 01:14:04.000 Or would they say, oh, she was so kind, she was so helpful, she was an inspiration to my career and my life. 01:14:04.239 --> 01:14:07.439 I would choose the latter over the former any day. 01:14:07.760 --> 01:14:08.560 Yeah, yeah. 01:14:08.800 --> 01:14:16.079 Me, I like I never label myself under any circumstances as an influencer via my podcast. 01:14:16.159 --> 01:14:20.239 I'm not trying to like influence people or stuff like that. 01:14:20.399 --> 01:14:35.840 I'm trying to just kind of like shed a little light on how media has really warped and manipulated society, movies, television, and of course, like I said, this new craze of supposed celebrities, which is influencers. 01:14:36.159 --> 01:14:42.079 Yeah, and everybody who really's a movie that I I love and I resonate with very deeply. 01:14:42.239 --> 01:14:43.439 It's called A Good Person. 01:14:43.600 --> 01:14:48.880 I don't know if you've seen it, but the main character, Allie, uh, has a line in it. 01:14:49.039 --> 01:14:52.800 It's my favorite line because I think simply just because of the tone. 01:14:52.960 --> 01:14:54.479 She's like, you don't like it? 01:14:54.640 --> 01:14:56.479 She's who did that, who made you do this? 01:14:56.640 --> 01:14:58.159 She's like an influencer. 01:14:58.319 --> 01:14:59.520 She influenced me. 01:14:59.680 --> 01:15:20.720 And the way she says it in that kind of sarcastic, almost like drunken tone, is the perfect kind of spit in the face to the influencer community of like, you really are not having as much of an impact on our world as you truly believe you are. 01:15:21.039 --> 01:15:23.199 But it is totally pervasive. 01:15:23.359 --> 01:15:40.079 And I was just in Sephora this weekend, and they have end cap displays that said things like the product was blowing up on TikTok, and I deliberately avoided those displays, and instead I asked the salesperson what product was right for me. 01:15:40.720 --> 01:15:50.640 Um, but uh yeah, a a book that I just recommended to you that I think is amazing and that people should really pick up and read or listen to. 01:15:50.800 --> 01:15:56.000 It's called Cue the Sun, and it's about the evolution of reality TV. 01:15:56.319 --> 01:16:02.720 And starting back in the 1930s with Candid Radio, going all the way up to The Apprentice. 01:16:02.960 --> 01:16:14.720 And it's a it's a heavy book, but it really is a great encapsulation of how the reality TV and influencer culture came to be. 01:16:15.039 --> 01:16:15.840 Yeah, yeah. 01:16:15.920 --> 01:16:24.960 It definitely, I don't want to say it just clearly, you know, from your knowledge and years of experience, it's not something that just popped out of thin air. 01:16:25.199 --> 01:16:39.119 It was almost a movement in and of itself that quite rapidly consumed society and literally made a cement block on the internet and it's stuck there. 01:16:39.279 --> 01:16:47.920 And I'm not saying we need to get

rid of it or anything, but we definitely need to find a better way to kind of control it. 01:16:48.319 --> 01:16:57.279 Yeah, I mean, Australia has the right idea where they set age limits on social media because, and again, it comes down to good parenting. 01:16:57.520 --> 01:17:24.640 I know that sounds very as a good way to wrap things up, is to say, as a grandmother of four young children and a mother of two, I am now witnessing firsthand in a good way what parents can do if they want to raise their children to be good people and people who can function in the analog world and not just on the digital planet. 01:17:25.119 --> 01:17:29.840 So if anything, I'm spent I'm the one who's spending too much time in the digital world. 01:17:30.079 --> 01:17:35.680 And after we hang up, I'm going to go out, beautiful sunny day in Arizona. 01:17:35.840 --> 01:17:41.439 I'm gonna put down my phone and I'm gonna enjoy humans as opposed to technology. 01:17:41.760 --> 01:17:42.079 Yeah. 01:17:42.319 --> 01:17:48.640 Well, here it's raining, so I don't exactly have the pleasure of like going out and like I'm not one to sing in the rain. 01:17:48.720 --> 01:17:50.079 I'm not Gene Kelly. 01:17:50.560 --> 01:17:52.479 Shoot your next movie here in Arizona. 01:17:52.560 --> 01:17:56.079 It's lovely and uh possibly. 01:17:56.239 --> 01:17:57.359 Uh what is it? 01:17:57.600 --> 01:18:07.199 One film that uh our the director for the film I'm currently working on, he uh he wants to make a movie, and I think we may end up filming it. 01:18:07.359 --> 01:18:10.560 He wants me to be involved, which is definitely great. 01:18:10.800 --> 01:18:14.079 Uh so makes a that's one thing. 01:18:14.159 --> 01:18:17.199 Like, I'm gonna get just into the to the industry. 01:18:17.279 --> 01:18:23.680 Like, for all you influencers who think you're famous, okay, let's take a world into the real world of film industry. 01:18:23.760 --> 01:18:26.800 We have to work hard to get where we want to be. 01:18:26.960 --> 01:18:29.439 And a lot of it does depend on luck. 01:18:29.680 --> 01:18:50.079 When a director who you are very new with and working on, when they say, when they when they say, like, hey, I'd like you to be involved in my next project, my next film, and here's so-and-so cast and what I have in mind, that means you have really influenced them in a positive way. 01:18:50.239 --> 01:18:59.119 You have shown them that you are doing this, like Josh Rowland said, for the love of the craft, because I like making movies. 01:18:59.359 --> 01:19:09.520 I want to tell stories that are going to resonate with people, that are going to impact people, that are going to maybe make them think a little outside of the box, even if the content is controversial. 01:19:09.760 --> 01:19:16.800 But when you get that that thumbs up, that big kind of high five, that means you have influenced someone. 01:19:17.039 --> 01:19:18.000 Love that, love that. 01:19:18.159 --> 01:19:22.560 That is a great, great closing, closing concept. 01:19:22.720 --> 01:19:23.119 Love that. 01:19:23.760 --> 01:19:24.960 Yes, yeah. 01:19:25.520 --> 01:19:26.159 Yes. 01:19:26.399 --> 01:19:34.319 And uh for all of you out there, all you media junkies, uh, if you want to support this podcast, have a chance to be a guest on the show. 01:19:34.399 --> 01:19:45.600 You can follow me on Instagram at ATK Media and check me out on uh Spotify, uh, Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, wherever it is you get your podcast from. 01:19:45.760 --> 01:19:51.039 Don't forget to tune into Nancy's uh podcast, uh Age Blind. 01:19:51.359 --> 01:20:00.880 Uh, I'm sure you will definitely learn a lot of very light important life lessons and also like like with the movies I make, make you open up your mind a bit more. 01:20:01.039 --> 01:20:02.560 Look at things from a whole new angle. 01:20:02.880 --> 01:20:06.319 And you could also find me at nancyaf.com. 01:20:06.960 --> 01:20:13.840 That is my personal brand website, and I'm on Instagram as NancyAF underscore. 01:20:14.079 --> 01:20:18.800 And you could follow my link tree to see all the rest of my content. 01:20:19.199 --> 01:20:21.840 And as I said, we all have a day job. 01:20:22.079 --> 01:20:30.560 My day job is marketing consulting with an eye toward applying AI to solve very human and real problems. 01:20:30.720 --> 01:20:35.119 Um, and that company is called the OnSwitch, which has been around for 22 years. 01:20:35.359 --> 01:20:39.520 Same logo, talk about things that withstand the test of time. 01:20:39.680 --> 01:20:44.640 And my tagline is bright and timeless marketing, and I am truly timeless. 01:20:44.720 --> 01:20:48.960 And as I said earlier, the only new thing is the media. 01:20:49.199 --> 01:20:56.399 What's real and what's genuine and what's talent transcends time and space. 01:20:56.640 --> 01:20:59.119 And that will all shake out in the end. 01:20:59.439 --> 01:21:01.520 Yes, I totally agree. 01:21:02.079 --> 01:21:06.319 Well, folks, until next time, stay high in life. 01:21:06.640 --> 01:21:07.279 Out.