Full Transcript for Embedding Career Development Topics in Courses

25 00:02:26,420 --> 00:02:30,650 It's I think I want to start off with what I think it isn't only. 26 00:02:30,980 --> 00:02:38,450 And I think it's not just putting a resume into a course or putting a cover letter review into a course or interview questions. 27 00:02:39,110 --> 00:02:47,390 I think it well, I think those are practical ways where we can integrate curriculum into the or career services into the curriculum. 28 00:02:47,660 --> 00:02:53,780 But I actually think. Career related curriculum development. 29 00:02:55,160 --> 00:03:00,380 Starts with skills, starts with the skills that students need to acquire within their program, 30 00:03:00,860 --> 00:03:05,540 um, and funnels out to how they're going to use those skills in the real world. 31 00:03:05,540 --> 00:03:11,900 And so us as employers, as schools, we have the job of preparing students for these skills. 32 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:18,799 And so I think a lot of it is kind of what we think we're already doing, but just doing it in a better way. 33 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,280 That helps students really understand the application. 34 00:03:22,670 --> 00:03:31,580 Um, if they're if students are working on case studies, helping them understand the value of those case studies as it relates to their employment. 35 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:38,649 Um, I used to follow a, uh. Someone in the space, and he really helped me see that. 36 00:03:38,650 --> 00:03:42,910 It's not necessarily a skills deficit, it's an awareness deficit. 37 00:03:43,210 --> 00:03:50,590 And so curriculum integration from the career services side is all about setting our students up for their future careers. 38 00:03:50,980 --> 00:03:58,000 And sometimes we don't even have to touch the curriculum. Sometimes career services can just come and lay on top of the curriculum and, 39 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,140 and point out all the valuable skills that they're gaining from those assignments or activities. 40 00:04:03,190 --> 00:04:06,429 Yeah, thanks for the call. I really like that and framing it that way too. 41 00:04:06,430 --> 00:04:10,870 Just talking about, you know, this awareness piece that is really, really so important. 42 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:18,489 We're talking about career readiness. And, and faculty are covering so many valuable, uh, topics and skills in the courses. 43 00:04:18,490 --> 00:04:23,740 Students are obtaining a lot of knowledge in the classroom, regardless of the degree program. 44 00:04:24,250 --> 00:04:30,550 But it's just this ability to really articulate what they're doing and really being aware of how this is going to apply to them in the future. 45 00:04:30,910 --> 00:04:34,930 Um, it's such a key aspect, right? Totally. 46 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:43,000 Um, when I worked in career services, there were plenty of times where a student or a graduate would bring a job description to me and they would say, 47 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,780 I really want this job, but I don't meet the qualifications. 48 00:04:46,780 --> 00:04:50,080 And I'd look at it with them and I'm like, yes, you do. 49 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,700 All of your curriculum prepared you exactly for this job. 50 00:04:54,700 --> 00:05:00,909 I don't understand where the disconnect is. And so we would go through line by line, the job description. 51 00:05:00,910 --> 00:05:06,879 Oh, it wants problem solving. So let's talk about what this look like within your school within your education. 52 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:13,690 Did you do case studies. Did you do this right a handful of these things and a light bulb would always kind of go off of, oh, 53 00:05:14,410 --> 00:05:21,640 I didn't realize that that actually was workforce preparation because it sat within the walls of our school. 54 00:05:22,090 --> 00:05:25,719 Yeah, yeah, for sure. And we're not even, uh, you know, 55 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:32,080 we we talk about case studies specifically that starts to kind of get my head going towards like experiential learning and, 56 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:36,399 and even internships and, and we're not even really talking about that sort of space. 57 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:42,549 Yeah. We're talking about, like, didactic in the classroom, um, the work that students are, are accomplishing. 58 00:05:42,550 --> 00:05:49,030 Right, exactly. Yeah. And I think, um, you know, we we did this really big portfolio audit. 59 00:05:49,030 --> 00:05:55,000 So we used one of the institutions I went worked at, we had portfolio, um, as our portfolio tool. 60 00:05:55,570 --> 00:06:02,229 And we audited we audited the portfolio, um, space because our instructors were using it so much, which was great. 61 00:06:02,230 --> 00:06:07,780 Right? They would they would say complete this presentation and put it in your portfolio for future employers. 62 00:06:08,650 --> 00:06:15,610 But because it was an assignment, students weren't looking at it from the lens of showing their future employers. 63 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:21,940 So there would be stacks of laundry in the background. They would be sitting on their couch, you know, in pajamas. 64 00:06:21,940 --> 00:06:26,860 Right? Because it's an assignment. They're not thinking my future employer could see this. 65 00:06:27,310 --> 00:06:31,240 Um, and so Career Services, we could come in and provide resources. 66 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:36,590 That said, here's how to record yourself professionally and here's why you should be recording. 67 00:06:36,590 --> 00:06:42,040 Here's all of your presentations that you do for school. You should be conducting in a very professional manner. 68 00:06:42,370 --> 00:06:46,180 And here's don't sit with a window, you know, behind you, right? 69 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,320 Don't sit on the couch with a basket of laundry behind you. 70 00:06:50,890 --> 00:06:56,680 Remove your kids from the situation. Right? Like it's just reframing students so that they're not. 71 00:06:57,990 --> 00:07:04,200 They

doubling their work? They're just making their work count for something that they can use post-graduation. 72 00:07:05,460 --> 00:07:07,570 Yeah, that's a really important thing to think about, too. 73 00:07:07,590 --> 00:07:13,709 Just just the, uh, the actual tactic of some of these assignments and how career services folks, 74 00:07:13,710 --> 00:07:18,030 how we can help frame those kinds of things because we do think about this kind of thing a lot. 75 00:07:18,690 --> 00:07:26,490 Um, and especially now, I mean, there's so many, even if you work at a, in an office full time, it's not a hybrid. 76 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,230 You're still going to be on teams or Zoom and in a recorded atmosphere. 77 00:07:31,620 --> 00:07:35,240 Um, very often. Oh, absolutely. 78 00:07:35,250 --> 00:07:38,879 Absolutely. This is like a trial space for students. 79 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:43,980 Honestly, are our walls are a space where they can try out. 80 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,280 Professional behavior communication, 81 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:55,440 and we can give them feedback and we can help kind of shape them to just become better citizens, but also long term employees. 82 00:07:57,070 --> 00:07:59,560 Yeah. And I think the feedback piece is really important. 83 00:07:59,590 --> 00:08:07,960 There's so many assumptions, I think that, um, people at Higher Ed make that students, you know, will, will somehow, 84 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:15,459 um, observe or absorb what professionalism is or somehow observe, you know, what leadership is or what teamwork is. 85 00:08:15,460 --> 00:08:21,550 And and they really need to be given some direct feedback on, you know, what you showed up, but. 86 00:08:22,740 --> 00:08:26,580 You're. You look kind of messy or, you know, whatever it is, you know? 87 00:08:27,420 --> 00:08:31,270 Totally, totally. And, I mean, social capital is a huge part of this, right? 88 00:08:31,290 --> 00:08:35,339 I grew up in a house where my parents, I saw them go to work 8 to 5. 89 00:08:35,340 --> 00:08:39,270 So I saw them get dressed up. I knew what to wear. 90 00:08:39,900 --> 00:08:43,260 Yeah, but that is not the case for everybody. They don't. 91 00:08:43,410 --> 00:08:45,540 Not everyone has that model at home. 92 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:54,030 And so I think we assume because they've made it to college, that there's kind of these fundamental things that they are aware of. 93 00:08:54,420 --> 00:09:02,909 But if you never had a parent who worked an 8 to 5 job, maybe, or maybe your dad worked at 7-Eleven and your mom worked at the gas, 94 00:09:02,910 --> 00:09:12,970 you know, worked at Albertson's or a food store that do you would never see your parents suit up or wear a tie. 95 00:09:12,990 --> 00:09:16,830 Um, all you would know is what they look like when they went to work. 96 00:09:17,070 --> 00:09:22,020 So then now it's time for you to go to an interview. And you don't know those basic fundamentals. 97 00:09:22,020 --> 00:09:24,590 And I saw this a lot in career services. 98 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:31,800 I, when I started out, made the assumption that they're in a university, so they must know how to interview and what to wear for an interview. 99 00:09:32,100 --> 00:09:37,709 Right? Yeah. Yeah. Especially if we're talking about, uh, just to put a fighter point on it. 100 00:09:37,710 --> 00:09:41,010 Like if we're talking about first generation college students or we're talking about, uh, just. 101 00:09:41,250 --> 00:09:45,600 Yeah, any of that exposure, it's really important to understand the background of where that students coming from. 102 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,170 And, yeah, the types of feedback that they might need. Total. 103 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,219 Yeah. And I think I've shared a story with you the first time we chatted, 104 00:09:53,220 --> 00:10:00,750 but I want to share it again because it was a pivotal point in my kind of career services curriculum integration journey. 105 00:10:01,350 --> 00:10:04,830 I worked at a health care college and we had a really. 106 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:11,829 Really good medical assistant graduate 4.0 top of her class and she needed a job. 107 00:10:11,830 --> 00:10:17,350 So I, I worked in career services. So I sent her to an interview and she was the only person I sent to this doctor's 108 00:10:17,350 --> 00:10:23,560 office because I was so confident in this girl and her abilities to handle the job. 109 00:10:24,220 --> 00:10:30,040 So I sent her to the interview. I called a doctor later on in the day and his feedback was Nicole. 110 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:35,560 She was wonderful, but we can't hire her. And I'm like, well, she's wonderful, why can't you hire her? 111 00:10:36,010 --> 00:10:39,340 And he said she showed up in a V-neck shirt. 112 00:10:39,580 --> 00:10:43,840 Her tattoos were showing on her arm. She had a mini skirt on and flip flops. 113 00:10:44,260 --> 00:10:50,080 This is a private practice. I can't have my private practice presented this way. 114 00:10:51,310 --> 00:10:54,830 And I was like, she did what? What did she do? 115 00:10:54,860 --> 00:11:00,260 Are you kidding me? And I was mad. I was like, I teed up this job for this girl. 116 00:11:00,770 --> 00:11:06,080 So I call her like, hey, how did it go? And her response, I will never forget. 117 00:11:06,110 --> 00:11:09,170 She said it was fantastic. Nicole. 118 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:13,340 I definitely got the job. I went to Ross the night before. 119 00:11:13,670 --> 00:11:17,780 I pretty much emptied my bank account to find the best outfit. 120 00:11:17,870 --> 00:11:25,100 But first impressions matter. And so I got a really cute skirt, a really cute shirt, and really nice bedazzled flip flops. 121 00:11:25,340 --> 00:11:26,959 So I barely have any money left, 122 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:38,870 but I gave it all I had and my heart shattered in 17 million pieces because this girl did everything that she thought she was

supposed to do, right. 123 00:11:39,770 --> 00:11:43,009 And in that moment, I was like, we can't skip these steps, 124 00:11:43,010 --> 00:11:49,159 and we can't assume that students know what they should be wearing to an interview based on the fact that, 125 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:53,840 you know, if we make the assumption they've made it to college, so they must know these things, then we're making. 126 00:11:54,790 --> 00:12:02,950 Terrible assumptions. Yeah, yeah. And that's a really powerful story because it's not not that the student was, um. 127 00:12:04,270 --> 00:12:08,450 Not necessarily engaged or prepared or, you know, paying attention to details. 128 00:12:08,470 --> 00:12:17,170 It was it was. The student earnestly felt like she was well prepared for that and did all the right things, checked all the boxes and. 129 00:12:18,730 --> 00:12:23,110 And it still ended up with this huge disconnect between the employer and the student. 130 00:12:24,010 --> 00:12:28,899 Which which brings about with employers this maybe getting off track a bit, but with employers, 131 00:12:28,900 --> 00:12:35,140 how how important it is to clearly lay out your expectations too of like attire even in an interview. 132 00:12:35,530 --> 00:12:39,130 Um, so you're not making assumptions on what that that person should be wearing either? 133 00:12:40,210 --> 00:12:47,560 Totally. And I think even, you know, I think there's a lot that faculty can bring to the conversation, too. 134 00:12:47,590 --> 00:12:57,430 Um, when I was at a health care college in career services, we always made the recommendation to wear nice clothes, you know, where appropriate, 135 00:12:57,820 --> 00:13:06,280 interview attire and our surgical tech, uh, program director actually came in and said, hey, I want to give some guidance here. 136 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:11,079 Surgical tech students should be wearing scrubs to the interviews. 137 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:15,640 That is what's appropriate within this industry, because a lot of times if they like you, 138 00:13:15,970 --> 00:13:20,860 they will ask you if you can shadow or hop into, you know, scrub up real quick. 139 00:13:21,190 --> 00:13:27,340 They will try to do a working interview on the spot, and if you're not ready in your scrubs, then you've just delayed the process. 140 00:13:27,370 --> 00:13:34,780 We didn't know that because we are our career services. So our faculty, who are literally directly working with our students, 141 00:13:35,260 --> 00:13:42,100 have those little gems of knowledge that are so industry specific that really can be valuable for our students. 142 00:13:42,970 --> 00:13:45,549 Yeah, that's a really helpful point, Nicole. Thank you for sharing that. 143 00:13:45,550 --> 00:13:51,040 Because, you know, when I think about all the different disciplines that are on the campus of South Dakota State, 144 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,849 there's all sorts of different expectations and different definitions of

professionalism. 145 00:13:54,850 --> 00:14:00,250 And it's really, really is important for those those students to be key to and from my the faculty on, 146 00:14:00,850 --> 00:14:04,090 uh, industry practices, uh, specific to their discipline. 147 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,319 Yeah, absolutely. Great. 148 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:14,200 So another question that kind of comes to mind that if we're thinking about embedding career development topics into courses, what? 149 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:21,470 You know which courses or programs are really prime for this type of of collaboration as you see it. 150 00:14:22,970 --> 00:14:30,410 All of them. Um, there there are some that I think are more primed than others. 151 00:14:30,890 --> 00:14:38,480 So teaching teaching is one where we really need to get it right, 152 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:48,350 and we really need to make sure that the skills and the tools and the technology that we're giving our students is very relevant to. 153 00:14:49,410 --> 00:14:51,230 Even the community that they're going to serve. 154 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:58,850 You guys have kind of a a unique situation in the fact that you're not support, you're not trying to support all the students across the country. 155 00:14:58,860 --> 00:15:07,410 You guys have a large, you know, ground presence. And so, you know, your local community and what those schools need and what those students need. 156 00:15:07,980 --> 00:15:12,990 Um, so teaching is a big one where it's prime. 157 00:15:12,990 --> 00:15:20,370 It's I mean, even just showing students how to get lesson plans and, um, how to use Pinterest and how to pay, 158 00:15:20,370 --> 00:15:26,040 you know, use teachers pay teachers write all these kind of tricks that teachers use to navigate their day to day. 159 00:15:26,430 --> 00:15:30,150 Students aren't going to find those in textbooks and lecture. 160 00:15:30,180 --> 00:15:38,430 You know, it's it's those little practical things that are going to help, um, a student exponentially in relationship to their career. 161 00:15:38,430 --> 00:15:41,970 So I would say teaching is really prime health care. 162 00:15:43,070 --> 00:15:51,590 Health care is really prime for this. Um. I was just talking to someone else, and they were talking about just how. 163 00:15:52,970 --> 00:15:59,990 Typically, if someone's in the health care industry and they're now teaching, they're passionate about shaping future clinicians. 164 00:16:00,350 --> 00:16:07,910 And so if you want to shape future clinicians, then you really can't decouple the field of, 165 00:16:08,150 --> 00:16:12,350 you know, the field and the skills that are required in curriculum. They go hand in hand. 166 00:16:12,350 --> 00:16:14,570 You can't separate the two of them. 167 00:16:15,290 --> 00:16:27,560 Um, business is another one that I think really is primed for this, mainly because business is moving so fast that we can't rely on textbooks. 168 00:16:27,890 --> 00:16:36,049

I mean, a marketing textbook that was published last year is probably irrelevant today or close to becoming irrelevant. 169 00:16:36,050 --> 00:16:43,730 Right? And so we need those business programs to really partner up with our employers. 170 00:16:44,210 --> 00:16:49,280 Good advisory boards, right. People who are seeing in the industry and can give guidance on our curriculum 171 00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:54,080 because it's changing so fast and we need to push students to take ownership, 172 00:16:54,170 --> 00:16:55,490 especially business students. 173 00:16:55,940 --> 00:17:05,059 We need to push them to take ownership of their job search and figuring out if you want to be a social media marketer, what tools and skills. 174 00:17:05,060 --> 00:17:11,720 Because if we try to work that into the curriculum, it's going to change every single term to term to term as new technology evolves. 175 00:17:12,230 --> 00:17:20,870 So business is one that's prime. Um, I feel like I could continue down the list and just make a case basically for every program. 176 00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:27,110 But those are the three that I think, um, kind of the, the three industries that. 177 00:17:28,490 --> 00:17:38,680 Really are prime for this type of partnership. Yeah, yeah, I hear you and I, I agree with, you know, the, the ones that you listed initially here, 178 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:43,180 I, my previous role I was in experiential education for the PharmD program. 179 00:17:43,180 --> 00:17:49,120 And I was always impressed with even within the didactic like the pharmacotherapy course sequence, you know, 180 00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:56,679 they would go through concepts and, and, and really, you know, memorize details on certain, uh, disease states and drugs and stuff like that. 181 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:02,290 But then they would have case studies where they would sit there like, okay, you are the pharmacist in this situation, what do you do? 182 00:18:02,810 --> 00:18:07,510 And um, even so, even within those disciplines where it feels like it's. 183 00:18:09,180 --> 00:18:14,520 Pretty easy or intuitive to see why this knowledge is relevant for you as a, you know, future professional. 184 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,090 Like they were still really articulating connect the dots very closely. 185 00:18:18,730 --> 00:18:22,139 Uh, okay. Let's apply this this knowledge. Right. Yeah. 186 00:18:22,140 --> 00:18:26,100 And I think even just the the interviews. 187 00:18:27,090 --> 00:18:31,610 It gives you a it gives students a chance to practice the information they've learned in a different way, 188 00:18:31,620 --> 00:18:35,429 because oftentimes we're testing it very specifically, right. 189 00:18:35,430 --> 00:18:40,440 Multiple choice, um, via exams or essays. 190 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,850 And that's much different than an interview. An interview. 191 00:18:43,860 --> 00:18:46,590 You're on the spot. You need to be ready with your answers. 192 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:55,230 You don't have that time that you would, you know, to develop a sentence in a paragraph and work it out to a two page essay. 193 00:18:55,590 --> 00:18:57,149 You just don't have that luxury. 194 00:18:57,150 --> 00:19:08,580 And so even if a student knows the content, their ability to quickly get it out in a comprehensive way, that's a skill of its own. 195 00:19:08,580 --> 00:19:19,110 You can you can know exactly what the topic is in the content, but there is value in being able to articulate it via an interview. 196 00:19:19,530 --> 00:19:23,990 Yeah, yeah. Um, okay, so think for me. 197 00:19:24,170 --> 00:19:28,340 Think with me for a minute. Just thinking about, like, the general general education courses. 198 00:19:28,430 --> 00:19:34,660 Uh, a lot of those courses are typically classes where students are like, okay, well, I have to choose between these two. 199 00:19:34,670 --> 00:19:38,240 I don't really want to take either of them. I don't really think the relevant to my career. 200 00:19:38,690 --> 00:19:42,320 Um. What? What do you have to say about that? 201 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:50,720 Uh, Jenna, these are really hard because I can recall feeling that exact same way as an 18 year old student. 202 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:55,460 Right? Why do I need to take astronomy? I'm never going to take astronomy. 203 00:19:56,030 --> 00:20:01,930 Um. So as much as I would say, as much as I would like to say. 204 00:20:04,650 --> 00:20:08,670 There's no chance of, you know, just let it be. 205 00:20:09,510 --> 00:20:15,150 Let it be what it is. There's still reflection points that we can ask students about the value of that class. 206 00:20:15,450 --> 00:20:22,440 Maybe for them, their gen Eds are simply a way in which they start figuring out how to manage their time. 207 00:20:22,710 --> 00:20:26,640 Maybe that becomes a value of gen. It's right before they hit those core classes. 208 00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:35,670 Maybe the value of learning how to write really well or present well, like maybe that becomes the value of the gen ed. 209 00:20:36,060 --> 00:20:39,660 If we have someone taking astronomy and they are going to be a marketer. 210 00:20:40,810 --> 00:20:47,200 It's going to be a stretch to say you might use astronomy in your future career. 211 00:20:47,380 --> 00:20:51,010 I've never recalled no offense to anyone who teaches astronomy here. 212 00:20:51,730 --> 00:20:57,460 I've never used that. And I couldn't regurgitate a single thing I learned from that class. 213 00:20:57,580 --> 00:21:06,820 I just can't. Um, but it taught me how to persevere through a class that I didn't particularly enjoy, and that was difficult. 214 00:21:07,210 --> 00:21:14,380 It taught me how to manage my time, you know, like, there's there's there's those soft, fundamental skills that students will still need to acquire. 215 00:21:15,100 --> 00:21:18,310 It's just may not necessarily be a 1 to 1. 216 00:21:18,820 --> 00:21:22,150 Astronomy

is directly related to your career. 217 00:21:23,460 --> 00:21:28,660 Yeah for sure. And I really I mean, I value general education courses, I think. 218 00:21:30,100 --> 00:21:33,400 With music being my background, I taught music appreciation. 219 00:21:33,670 --> 00:21:38,469 I taught the history of rock and roll. I taught jazz history appreciation for those general ed courses. 220 00:21:38,470 --> 00:21:44,910 And, um, the way I always try to frame it was just that this is we're trying to create informed citizens here. 221 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:46,420 Yeah, this is part of our culture, 222 00:21:46,420 --> 00:21:51,940 and it's important for you to understand and have a working knowledge of of the history of our culture in our country. 223 00:21:51,940 --> 00:21:57,260 And, um, especially when I was teaching American popular music, I would, you know, 224 00:21:57,310 --> 00:22:04,750 point out to students, I would try and make these connections, like, okay, if you're if you're in business, let's think about not just the, 225 00:22:04,750 --> 00:22:08,980 the musical style of Jimi Hendrix, but let's think about the business side of Jimi Hendrix. 226 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:14,620 And let's think about the fact that there's an estate for Jimi Hendrix that controls, you know, the rights of his music and all that kind of stuff. 227 00:22:14,620 --> 00:22:21,669 And there's there's some real important elements to really think about with some of these types of things that might not seem directly related, 228 00:22:21,670 --> 00:22:25,120 but, um, but then, of course, the soft, the soft skills too, 229 00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:30,790 of time management and mastering a subject that you're not necessarily passionate about because guess what? 230 00:22:30,820 --> 00:22:37,090 You're going to as a professional, you're going to get passed with something that you're not always passionate about, right? 231 00:22:37,690 --> 00:22:43,839 Yeah. And I think you bring up a really valuable point that really kind of solidifies 232 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:48,010 the importance of thinking about the careers as you're planning your curriculum, 233 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:53,980 because as you're writing your courses, you kind of think about it from the lens of. 234 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:59,140 Many of these students are not going to want to. I'm going to keep picking on astronomy. 235 00:23:00,610 --> 00:23:05,740 Many of these students are taking this simply because it's an option of three that they must take. 236 00:23:06,100 --> 00:23:09,520 They don't really have plans to practice in the field. 237 00:23:09,850 --> 00:23:14,229 And so I think if you're designing your course from that lens, 238 00:23:14,230 --> 00:23:21,850 the course that you produce looks a lot different than the course you would produce for someone who is going to be an astronomer. 239 00:23:21,850 --> 00:23:29,620 Right? You're you're going to get a lot more technical with the knowledge, and you're going to dive deeper into very specific topics. 240 00:23:30,010 --> 00:23:32,560 You're probably going to follow a textbook pretty closely, 241 00:23:33,010 --> 00:23:39,490 but if you step back and you just say the likelihood that that these students actually are going to be astronomers, 242 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:45,160 um, and you keep that lens and you partner with career services, then you're right. 243 00:23:45,190 --> 00:23:50,740 You could you, as the instructor might say, astronomy is so relevant. 244 00:23:50,860 --> 00:23:57,700 Every student should know these ten things about the way you know, the way in which the stars. 245 00:23:57,850 --> 00:24:06,339 I don't know. Again, I didn't learn very much in astronomy, but I'm sure that there's an astronomy instructor who would say differently, right, 246 00:24:06,340 --> 00:24:09,340 that there are these top five things that every student should know, 247 00:24:09,340 --> 00:24:14,200 will then design your class around that, and then you can say, hey, you're you'll never know. 248 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:20,800 You might be in a business meeting with someone who is an astronomer, and you have that fundamental knowledge. 249 00:24:21,610 --> 00:24:28,090 You know, there's there's psychology principles that if someone is a psychologist, I can kind of baseline. 250 00:24:29,110 --> 00:24:33,759 Talk with them about different theories because of my psychology classes. 251 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:40,840 Right. And so I can kind of get on their level, show some baseline knowledge strictly because of some of my gen ed classes. 252 00:24:41,620 --> 00:24:47,170 But if you design it from the perspective of they must know everything about astronomy in this class, then. 253 00:24:48,350 --> 00:24:52,910 It becomes more difficult to to help them take that outside of your class. 254 00:24:53,450 --> 00:24:58,669 Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Um, so. 255 00:24:58,670 --> 00:25:07,159 Okay. I generally know the I think the answer to this question and I, of course, have my own opinion and kind of guess how you would answer, 256 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,440 but just just to call it out, the question, 257 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:14,450 are there any courses that you feel like are off the hook that don't need to address career development at all? 258 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:25,250 I thought really long and hard about this one, because I wanted to find one example where I could say, yes, this is off the hook, but. 259 00:25:26,610 --> 00:25:31,380 Ultimately, no. None are off the hook. We have a service. 260 00:25:31,410 --> 00:25:34,470 I feel very passionately that we have a service as. 261 00:25:35,700 --> 00:25:41,490 We have an obligation as universities to prepare students for that workforce. 262 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:42,180 I mean, if they're, 263 00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:50,640 why are they going to school if we're not preparing them for kind of that next part of life and careers are in that next part of

life. 264 00:25:51,000 --> 00:26:00,719 So if you are teaching a program and there's no careers after it, then that bid's a totally different question. 265 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,350 But because every program should have careers aligned to it. 266 00:26:04,860 --> 00:26:09,990 And so there's no there's none. There's none that are off the hook. Every program, every course. 267 00:26:11,150 --> 00:26:17,000 If we keep the student at the center of the work we're doing, which I think is the heart of an educator, 268 00:26:17,630 --> 00:26:25,280 and we get really distracted by, you know, aligning outcomes and trying out new teaching strategies. 269 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:32,540 I think there's a lot of distractions as a teacher. But if we really get back to kind of the heart of why we're doing this, 270 00:26:33,410 --> 00:26:38,780 I think our courses would look a lot different and we would be very we would be 271 00:26:38,780 --> 00:26:43,550 very eager to develop courses that prepared our students for the workforce. 272 00:26:45,790 --> 00:26:53,620 Yeah, Nicole, I agree with you. And I get into some of these conversations with with colleagues on campus and off campus. 273 00:26:53,680 --> 00:27:00,280 Uh, and I always come back to the same conversation where, um, we do want students to be passionate about learning. 274 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:08,260 We want them to learn for learning sake, but we also want them to be able to use their knowledge that they gave and translate that into a, 275 00:27:08,470 --> 00:27:13,090 uh, their future of employment, or transfer those skills into something different. 276 00:27:13,540 --> 00:27:16,810 And so I think it is a yes and kind of situation. 277 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:23,140 And so, you know, take take, for example, if a student really is, is passionate about, um. 278 00:27:25,090 --> 00:27:28,140 Spanish and just wants to major in Spanish. 279 00:27:28,150 --> 00:27:32,440 They're not exactly sure what they want to do for their job, but they're just they're just learning Spanish. 280 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:38,590 But there's so many ways to apply that knowledge in today's economy and our society. 281 00:27:38,770 --> 00:27:44,440 Um, it health care and science and education in the arts, like there's just a million ways. 282 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,940 And I think it's it's important for instructors to help students sort of. 283 00:27:50,170 --> 00:27:53,260 Build the infrastructure to kind of go through those thought processes, 284 00:27:53,260 --> 00:27:57,490 because you can really get just paralyzed with the amount of options that are available. 285 00:27:58,690 --> 00:28:00,320 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. 286 00:28:00,340 --> 00:28:06,970 And I think, you know, especially in those gen ed classes, students are really using those spaces to try to figure it out. 287 00:28:07,090 --> 00:28:13,360 I think back to my undergraduate, and I changed majors about seven times before I found something that

I loved. 288 00:28:13,810 --> 00:28:16,990 Um, but I so desperately wish that. 289 00:28:19,020 --> 00:28:22,740 Those conversations would have been taken to the next level of great, you love this. 290 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:28,980 Now let's talk about what you can do. What can you do with an early childhood education degree? 291 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,980 Clearly, I'm not in early childhood education, 292 00:28:32,550 --> 00:28:42,330 but I wish someone I wish I would have had faculty who talked more about their experience in the field and shared their own career journey. 293 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:48,270 I think as a student, that would have been so valuable and I would have listened so intently if I could see 294 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:54,060 different people and the different journeys they took instead of just on day one. 295 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,890 Hopping right into the syllabus, right? Or hearing their long list of credentials, 296 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:08,520 I would have really had a lot of value in learning what their professional journey from student to today look like. 297 00:29:09,060 --> 00:29:21,510 Yeah, yeah yeah. And I have a real life example of of what you, um, just shared as sort of evidence to support what you were just sharing too. 298 00:29:21,660 --> 00:29:25,979 So it is one of the I was early in teaching music appreciation, 299 00:29:25,980 --> 00:29:32,549 and we were wrapping up the semester and I was kind of giving the final sort of goodbye sort of lecture and talk. 300 00:29:32,550 --> 00:29:39,959 It's kind of sending them off and talking about how they can use this information that they've gained in their future classes. 301 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:45,180 They could, you know, they could look at these artists that we talked about as they're American citizens as well, 302 00:29:45,180 --> 00:29:48,780 and their leaders in our society and all that kind of went off. 303 00:29:49,260 --> 00:29:55,170 And one of the students raised his hand. He said, you know, if you would have, like, started our semester with that. 304 00:29:56,700 --> 00:30:02,129 I think I probably would have paid attention a little bit more. And so I really appreciated that feedback. 305 00:30:02,130 --> 00:30:05,790 But it was really important to hear words like, what is the relevance? 306 00:30:05,790 --> 00:30:09,060 Let's clearly state this. And how can we how can we use this information? 307 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:20,640 Absolutely. And the thing is, is whatever topic you're teaching as an instructor, you probably love it and you probably see the value in it. 308 00:30:21,700 --> 00:30:26,260 So why not just help students connect those dots right away? 309 00:30:27,460 --> 00:30:31,990 Like you, not all your students are going to love your topic, but you can help. 310 00:30:32,020 --> 00:30:37,480 You can help them see the value in your field and the different options in your field. 311 00:30:37,780 --> 00:30:41,440 And who knows, maybe if you design an astronomy class from that perspective, 312 00:30:41,860 --> 00:30:47,410 students might leave saying, wow, I think I actually might want to be an astronomer. 313 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,800 Let me let me take a couple more classes to figure this out. 314 00:30:51,550 --> 00:30:59,670 Yeah. Yeah for sure. Okay, so kind of thinking a little bit more, um, specifically then what? 315 00:31:00,450 --> 00:31:04,500 So in your experience, what are some of your favorite course transformations where you, 316 00:31:04,950 --> 00:31:11,610 you've kind of got to get involved in the process and it felt like you really were able to, to, uh, make some meaningful changes. 317 00:31:13,050 --> 00:31:17,670 Yeah, this is a fun stuff, because everything we've talked about so far has been very theoretical. 318 00:31:17,670 --> 00:31:23,730 Right? It's. Yeah, but it's it's taking it down from the clouds and, and putting it in a practical way. 319 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:28,200 Um, a couple, a couple things kind of come to my mind. 320 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:37,080 One is I've had the best result or the most fun when we take it from a course level to a program level. 321 00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:41,010 So if we take I'll give an example of an MBA program. 322 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,400 We did a really big overhaul in an MBA program. 323 00:31:44,850 --> 00:31:54,030 And what we actually did was we started with the enrollment data and we said using the enrollment data, who are the the students coming in? 324 00:31:54,210 --> 00:31:58,770 Because that's really important too, right? We can't always be reacting to end, of course, surveys. 325 00:31:58,770 --> 00:32:07,679 We need to know what students are entering the university. And so beyond just the normal demographics, age, you know, race, all of those things, 326 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:13,770 marital status, my university, we had a specific question about what their career goals were. 327 00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:20,129 And so we were able to use those career goals and basically find we categorize them. 328 00:32:20,130 --> 00:32:25,680 And we found that 30% of our MBA students wanted to be entrepreneurs. 329 00:32:26,850 --> 00:32:38,430 30% wanted to advance within their current role, and then 30% were in a completely different field and wanted to go to the business field. 330 00:32:38,890 --> 00:32:43,110 So, so, so now we had three personas and we were able to take this out even further. 331 00:32:43,110 --> 00:32:46,980 And I mean, we gave these people names and we gave them. 332 00:32:48,180 --> 00:32:55,740 Assignments that would be helpful as college students. We really had these three students in mind as we reworked the curriculum. 333 00:32:56,670 --> 00:33:00,930 Once we had a personas, we then went to the job boards. We looked through indeed. 334 00:33:01,290 --> 00:33:05,990 Um, primarily indeed at the time. I'm probably dating myself by. 335 00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:10,160 By using.

Um, but we primarily used indeed. 336 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:16,040 And we basically thought, okay, if someone wants to become a leader. 337 00:33:17,100 --> 00:33:25,020 What skills and tools and technology are employers wanting to see what's what's hot on the job boards? 338 00:33:25,500 --> 00:33:32,490 Um, entrepreneur is a little bit different, right? Because you don't necessarily have job boards to point them back to. 339 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:38,820 And then someone transitioning. We're looking at kind of those entry level business roles. 340 00:33:39,270 --> 00:33:46,470 And so from there we were able again to kind of create this like matrix of these are really the relevant skills 341 00:33:46,650 --> 00:33:53,790 and technology because we can't be teaching our students technology that we use in the field 20 years ago, 342 00:33:53,880 --> 00:34:03,450 especially those marketing accounting. They're going to go to interviews and the employers are going to say, what technology are you familiar with? 343 00:34:04,050 --> 00:34:08,520 And they need to be they need to be current with the technology. 344 00:34:08,910 --> 00:34:09,150 Yeah. 345 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:19,440 Um, so this matrix, we we had this matrix of technology skills, and then we were able to map the entire MBA program with those skills and technology. 346 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:26,650 And we would say, okay, this finance class, this is where we're going to put some of these, you know, financial again, I'm going to date myself. 347 00:34:26,670 --> 00:34:31,950 At that time it was like QuickBooks. Peachtree. It was I'm sure there's so many more. 348 00:34:32,130 --> 00:34:35,910 I'm so I'm sure there's many more new ones. Now if we were to complete the same. 349 00:34:36,210 --> 00:34:39,990 That's right. You know, analysis. Um, but we really got tactical. 350 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:45,569 And what was great was a lot of these software, um, companies, they gave you free trials. 351 00:34:45,570 --> 00:34:48,210 And so we were able to say, okay, in these courses, 352 00:34:48,720 --> 00:34:55,049 let's have students explore via free trials so that they can confidently go to an interview and say, 353 00:34:55,050 --> 00:35:00,180 yeah, I've used the interface of QuickBooks or I've user interface of this social media platform. 354 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,229 Um, and so we mapped out all the skills and the knowledge. 355 00:35:04,230 --> 00:35:09,209 And then we kind of had this blueprint and we brought all of our faculty in and we said, 356 00:35:09,210 --> 00:35:13,140 okay, this is this is kind of what we're thinking, but let's really plan. 357 00:35:13,470 --> 00:35:17,000 And faculty were able to say like, oh, I don't want this in my finance class. 358 00:35:17,010 --> 00:35:22,410 This is you miss a mark. This is not a financial tool. This needs to go into accounting. 359 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,419 And so then the accounting instructor would say yep. That. 360 00:35:26,420 --> 00:35:31,880 I'll take this one. Um, or they would have that insight, that industry insight, and they would say, 361 00:35:32,930 --> 00:35:38,540 I know that they want this today, but this tool is going to become obsolete in six months from now. 362 00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:46,549 So let's not waste our time, right? Um, or like a marketing instructor, he said this list is going to look different in six months. 363 00:35:46,550 --> 00:35:51,080 So why don't we build assignments that encourage students to look at the job boards, 364 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:58,950 figure out in real time what social media tools are relevant, and they can use those. 365 00:35:58,970 --> 00:36:02,390 Let's not limit them to this set that we've identified. 366 00:36:02,630 --> 00:36:05,900 Let's let them figure it out because that's going to keep our curriculum more relevant. 367 00:36:06,950 --> 00:36:11,809 So we all kind of came up with this plan. And then as we designed the courses, 368 00:36:11,810 --> 00:36:19,640 we just worked everything into it seamlessly so that we could confidently know when a student got to the end of this MBA program, 369 00:36:20,150 --> 00:36:26,750 we've prepared them and then career services. We layered in even more and appropriately scaffolded. 370 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:34,280 When should we start talking about the resume at which how many credits should we start having that conversation? 371 00:36:34,310 --> 00:36:39,770 Okay, cool. Now, when should we start talking about networking and the importance of networking? 372 00:36:39,770 --> 00:36:44,210 Right. And we were able to to scaffold in. Our process. 373 00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:52,400 Um, and we paired with advising and advising was able to add, you know, that 12 unit mark, uh, auto email went out. 374 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,360 So we were able to collectively say, here's our MBA program. 375 00:36:56,870 --> 00:37:04,010 And we feel confident that the curriculum we've designed matches the career needs. 376 00:37:05,150 --> 00:37:09,380 And the employer needs so that upon completion, they're prepared. 377 00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:15,190 Does that help? That's that's one that's like a super tangible. 378 00:37:15,670 --> 00:37:22,989 Yeah. Yeah I love it. And it's this it evokes this idea of career everywhere mindset where the career services folks, 379 00:37:22,990 --> 00:37:31,059 we're trying to facilitate these connections and really help these programs, um, in a comprehensive way, address this issue. 380 00:37:31,060 --> 00:37:37,030 And I it's not just the, the idea of, of a professor, like adding stuff to their class. 381 00:37:37,030 --> 00:37:42,100 It's, it's this idea of also making sure the advisors are aware of what's happening. 382 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,429 And because they're they're front line and they're talking to these students. 383 00:37:45,430 --> 00:37:51,219 And so identifying sort of these three personas within an MBA program, that's

that's a really, really smart thing to do. 384 00:37:51,220 --> 00:37:57,700 It's like, okay, what is what is your focus here. Thank you. Okay. Well that this track might might be a better fit for you and and. 385 00:37:59,070 --> 00:38:06,690 Yeah, I think it's great. And this becomes critical to, um, for programs that have like a license after. 386 00:38:06,690 --> 00:38:13,980 So going back to health care or teachers. This is really a part if Career Services gets involved. 387 00:38:15,210 --> 00:38:21,360 We can help. And I'm saying we. But, I mean, you guys, um, can help figure out. 388 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:26,730 Okay. Your you have a teacher credential student 90 days from graduation. 389 00:38:27,420 --> 00:38:31,229 They should be doing this, right. They should be doing their live scan fingerprints. 390 00:38:31,230 --> 00:38:39,990 They should be taking their passport pictures. So let's have a let's have a day where career services comes into your class. 391 00:38:40,260 --> 00:38:45,840 And we sign them up for their live scans, and we bring someone in to take their passport pictures. 392 00:38:46,230 --> 00:38:50,630 Um, one of our, uh, health care program, they needed a driving record. 393 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:56,160 They needed a driving record in the state of California. That driving record takes a really long time. 394 00:38:56,340 --> 00:39:01,680 And so career services, we were able to kind of call the DMV, see how long that would take. 395 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:10,049 And then we walked it backwards and we said, okay, so we need to request driving records if we want to need to be ready to take their boards upon 396 00:39:10,050 --> 00:39:16,350 graduation six months from now or six months before they need to request their driving records. 397 00:39:17,190 --> 00:39:24,599 So we would go into that class, we career services would give them the paperwork, they'd fill it out, career services. 398 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:33,899 We would mail it on their behalf. Right. Just removing those barriers, especially around licensure, that are not easy to navigate. 399 00:39:33,900 --> 00:39:37,379 As a student, you have this long checklist on a, you know, 400 00:39:37,380 --> 00:39:44,850 board certifying website that uses big words and you just don't know what you don't know as a student. 401 00:39:44,850 --> 00:39:45,180 Right. 402 00:39:45,900 --> 00:39:57,000 Um, and so the faculty and career services can really work together to make sure that the entire process is intentional and strategic for students. 403 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:03,840 Yeah, yeah. And I, I like that sense, too, because there are a lot of programs that that frankly, are understaffed. 404 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,510 And they have they might have one, you know, um, 405 00:40:07,050 --> 00:40:12,780 sort of program manager that is trying to manage all the administrative tasks of that faculty are dealing with. 406 00:40:12,780 --> 00:40:17,340 And so then to add on the student administrative needs and then career. 407 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:18,390 Excuse me. 408 00:40:21,690 --> 00:40:29,100 I think career services folks can really help with some of that stuff, and then maybe it's even making a connection with somebody that's that. 409 00:40:30,340 --> 00:40:36,490 On the state side that files the paperwork that can come to campus and take students through that, that whole process. 410 00:40:37,540 --> 00:40:42,879 Absolutely. Yeah. This is this is where career services can really, really help. 411 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:47,200 Especially you're talking about admin staff that just isn't overwhelmed. 412 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:56,870 Career services. Is such a key player here because we can create checklists right for the students that are easy to read. 413 00:40:57,230 --> 00:41:07,460 Um, we can we can reverse, you know, kind of map it backwards from if we want them to, to be eligible for exams upon graduation. 414 00:41:08,390 --> 00:41:16,000 What do we need to do ahead of time? And let's walk it backwards. And yeah, we will we will reach out to the state representative to ask questions. 415 00:41:16,010 --> 00:41:20,090 Um, and I think that's I mean, that's what career services is. 416 00:41:20,570 --> 00:41:26,090 And I think a lot of this is debunking that myth that career services is solely resumes, 417 00:41:26,090 --> 00:41:32,540 cover letters, interview prep like that is what career services will forever be known for, right? 418 00:41:32,570 --> 00:41:38,690 But there's so many other ways where career services can support this. 419 00:41:39,890 --> 00:41:43,070 This entire kind of idea? Yeah, absolutely. 420 00:41:43,610 --> 00:41:49,700 Yeah. Great. Do you have, uh, maybe another example that you wanted to share with us? 421 00:41:50,420 --> 00:41:59,239 Yeah, I want to take it to, like, a course level two, because I know that that we were fortunate to be able to take it to a programmatic level. 422 00:41:59,240 --> 00:42:10,680 So I want to take it to a course level two. Um, so we had I had a, uh, writing professor and no, sorry, he wasn't writing. 423 00:42:10,700 --> 00:42:13,700 He was psychology because it was like a coffee chat with Pete Piaget. 424 00:42:14,210 --> 00:42:18,050 Um, he was a psychology instructor, and he said, there's just there's no way. 425 00:42:18,170 --> 00:42:24,610 My there's no way where we can integrate career related topics. 426 00:42:24,620 --> 00:42:30,490 Um. The the content is really stuck here, right? 427 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,600 This is it's a very rigorous course. There's a lot of topics. There's no room for extra. 428 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:41,020 And so I said, just can I just see your course, your course guide, your blueprint, your syllabus. 429 00:42:41,020 --> 00:42:45,250 Like, let me just take a look and see. What's there? 430 00:42:45,580 --> 00:42:50,920 Yeah. And so we had this one particular assignment that was, um, a coffee chat. 431

00:42:51,580 --> 00:42:57,610 And it really was just like reflecting, like, pretend that you're having a coffee chat with Piaget. 432 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:03,700 Okay, but what if the coffee chat was about their future career, right? 433 00:43:03,730 --> 00:43:08,049 What if that's. What's the what's the value of this assignment? 434 00:43:08,050 --> 00:43:11,710 And the value of the assignment was thinking about Piaget's perspective. 435 00:43:12,740 --> 00:43:18,590 Great. So I'm like, okay, so what if what about perspective on the students career? 436 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:26,750 If, if a student were to bring a job that they wanted, right, a job description to their coffee chat with Piaget, 437 00:43:27,290 --> 00:43:31,880 what guidance might Piaget give them and what might they say about their approach? 438 00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:37,430 And if they're on track to obtain this job upon, you know, upon graduation? 439 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:43,400 And so it was I we didn't change the course literally. 440 00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,120 Yeah. We didn't change the course. We were able to just layer that in there. 441 00:43:47,540 --> 00:43:52,969 Um, on a course level two, a lot of times instructors will have like a reflective at the end. 442 00:43:52,970 --> 00:43:56,000 Right. Some sort of reflection, you know, career services. 443 00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:07,489 That's an easy spot to just add one line, one question about the skills, the value of this course in relationship to their future career. 444 00:44:07,490 --> 00:44:10,520 Just getting them thinking in that moment. Yeah. 445 00:44:10,940 --> 00:44:15,590 What did I learn here? And I think that's really good feedback for the instructor too. 446 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:20,990 Because if students are saying nothing, if they're saying this isn't applicable to my career, 447 00:44:21,710 --> 00:44:25,550 then there's an opportunity there for a little bit of rework of the curriculum. 448 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:31,880 Um, but I think instructors would actually be really surprised to learn that students, 449 00:44:32,300 --> 00:44:36,379 if given the space to reflect, can actually pull the skills out on their own. 450 00:44:36,380 --> 00:44:40,370 It just they're not thinking about it on their own. We we should be prompting them. 451 00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:47,930 And so the reflection if there's a reflection and of course that's a really easy way to just add an extra question. 452 00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:56,299 Same thing with um. Sometimes instructors will have students list out in the very beginning of the course their goals, what they're hoping to obtain. 453 00:44:56,300 --> 00:45:07,670 Right. Same thing how in relationship to your career, what what role does this class play or what do you hope to obtain or how will this connect? 454 00:45:07,670 --> 00:45:11,660 I asked this of all my students. Um, and a lot of them are. 455 00:45:11,900 --> 00:45:20,450 I teach um, uh, some humanities classes, and a lot of them are nurses and teachers and. 456 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:23,570 They have to really kind of take. 457 00:45:23,590 --> 00:45:33,160 They actually have to then do research about what humanities is because most of them, again, it's a laundry list of classes that they can choose from. 458 00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,340 Yeah. So most of them have to say okay, what is humanities? 459 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:41,680 They have to do some googling to figure out what humanities is to be able to tie that back. 460 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:48,759 And so I feel like they're right out the gates, have a better understanding of what humanities is because they're able to, 461 00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:54,400 on their own, figure out how this might connect to their career. 462 00:45:54,850 --> 00:45:57,970 Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot we can do. 463 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:03,900 Yeah. And I the reflective piece really is, is a kind of a low hanging fruit there. 464 00:46:03,910 --> 00:46:10,510 Just adding to the question of, you know, even even if you wanted to use like, the mace, uh, career career readiness domains, you know, which, 465 00:46:10,900 --> 00:46:17,080 you know, on this assignment, which do you think this helped you develop problem solving or, you know, professionalism or whatever it is? 466 00:46:17,620 --> 00:46:21,189 Um, yeah. So I like that a lot. Absolutely. 467 00:46:21,190 --> 00:46:23,530 And even talking about the Nace career competencies, 468 00:46:23,890 --> 00:46:30,060 we can even use existing assignments and layer in just extra verbiage that says you're going to create a profession, 469 00:46:30,070 --> 00:46:34,830 you know, you're going to create a presentation here. So again, we're not changing the assignment at all. 470 00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,930 If there's an existing presentation in a in a course. Yeah. 471 00:46:38,860 --> 00:46:45,460 All we need to do is is adjust the prompt to help the students see the skills that they're gaining. 472 00:46:45,770 --> 00:46:52,390 Um, one college that I worked at, we actually used hashtags because in our portfolio you could search by hashtags. 473 00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:56,530 So we kind of set up our curriculum in the same way. 474 00:46:56,540 --> 00:47:01,110 Uh, this presentation, you're going to hashtag this skill. 475 00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:09,129 Hashtag this girl. Hashtag this girl. So we actually started setting up our prompts by using the hashtags that are the skills 476 00:47:09,130 --> 00:47:13,480 that students were going to learn and then layering in again if you're recording. 477 00:47:14,690 --> 00:47:21,139 Here's a career services resource about how to create a professional presentation without spending any extra money. 478 00:47:21,140 --> 00:47:29,360 And it's just little tips of, you know, clean off your camera, clean off your computer camera before you record. 479 00:47:29,660 --> 00:47:36,920 Minimize the noise. Distraction. Shut the door. Don't sit

in front of a window or don't sit with yeah, don't sit in front of a window. 480 00:47:37,340 --> 00:47:45,320 You know. And so these resources career services which is able to layer in on top of existing assignments. 481 00:47:45,890 --> 00:47:52,610 Yeah. So I think, yeah, there are, uh, and as you can imagine, 482 00:47:52,630 --> 00:47:58,250 I can imagine somebody listening to this and they made it this far in the episode and they're thinking, 483 00:47:58,250 --> 00:48:00,200 okay, yeah, that's great, but I don't have time for this. 484 00:48:00,710 --> 00:48:07,040 Um, so what are you what are you some thoughts about, like, perceived obstacles versus, you know, 485 00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:11,450 real obstacles because there are some barriers to this, but, um, what are some of your thoughts? 486 00:48:13,510 --> 00:48:23,590 I think. So I read this book about basically needing to reimagine things and how sometimes reimagining anything is so much harder. 487 00:48:24,370 --> 00:48:29,800 Just the idea of reimagining something is very hard. If I said, how do you solve world hunger? 488 00:48:30,830 --> 00:48:40,250 How that other idea is so big. And so the act of reimagining your classroom, that takes a lot of work and energy. 489 00:48:40,670 --> 00:48:44,180 And if you're a teacher teaching multiple classes, then yeah, 490 00:48:44,180 --> 00:48:51,409 that that's that's time spent away from grading and giving feedback and writing your publications. 491 00:48:51,410 --> 00:49:00,170 You know, it's taking away. So I think one of the perceived obstacles is that it's going to just be a very overwhelming process. 492 00:49:00,650 --> 00:49:05,480 You know, this idea of trying to now add this in is difficult. 493 00:49:06,590 --> 00:49:08,690 And to that I would say career services is your friend. 494 00:49:09,140 --> 00:49:18,380 Yeah, I know you, Kevin, and I know that you would gladly sit in a lecture or have lunch with a faculty member and chat about their class, 495 00:49:18,740 --> 00:49:23,780 and without putting any additional burden on the faculty member. 496 00:49:24,500 --> 00:49:30,440 You would be able to come up with really good ideas of, hey, you already have this presentation. 497 00:49:30,740 --> 00:49:35,629 Let's just layer this on top. Let's just hand students this extra resource and see what happens this semester. 498 00:49:35,630 --> 00:49:45,440 Right. Like, yeah, career services can take. A lot of that ideation off of the faculty member if they're just given a chance. 499 00:49:45,710 --> 00:49:53,810 Right. Um, so I would say the perception of this is this is too difficult or I don't have time or I don't even know where to start. 500 00:49:54,410 --> 00:49:58,340 Just start with a conversation with career services and just say, this is my class. 501 00:49:58,340 --> 00:50:02,389 This is what I teach. Even if the conversation is I just run to me. 502 00:50:02,390 --> 00:50:05,930 And I think there's no way to integrate career services. 503 00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:11,799 Then, Kevin, you say challenge accepted, right? And you let me sit in your class. 504 00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:18,730 Let me look at your syllabus. Let me look. And at the end, maybe there isn't, which I doubt would be the case, 505 00:50:19,240 --> 00:50:25,330 but more than likely what happens is because your lens, Kevin, is so different than theirs. 506 00:50:25,630 --> 00:50:37,120 Yeah, more than likely you come back to them with a list of here's all these ideas of of small adjustments that would make radical differences. 507 00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:41,560 And you, you know, you instructor faculty, you don't really have to do much. 508 00:50:41,860 --> 00:50:48,640 Let's just change the assignment prompts a little bit here and there. Here's some resources that you can add to your assignments. 509 00:50:49,030 --> 00:50:56,200 Now that would be like minor modifications if a if a if a faculty member wanted to completely overhauled their course, 510 00:50:56,620 --> 00:50:58,870 that requires a little bit more thought and planning. 511 00:50:59,350 --> 00:51:07,480 But I think the easiest way to start is just a conversation and to just start right, to just say, hey, I heard your podcast. 512 00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:15,520 I really don't know if my class is a good fit for this, but I am a faculty member who cares deeply about the success success of my students. 513 00:51:15,670 --> 00:51:20,200 So let's give this a try and let's see if we can find a place to collaborate or integrate. 514 00:51:20,770 --> 00:51:24,309 And once those moments happening, it's like a snowball effect, right? 515 00:51:24,310 --> 00:51:29,350 And more and more faculty see what their other faculty are doing and they want to be part of it, 516 00:51:29,650 --> 00:51:33,910 especially because career services can do so much of that heavy lifting. 517 00:51:34,390 --> 00:51:38,650 Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So I would say I'll keep on. 518 00:51:38,950 --> 00:51:43,600 Well, I just wanted to just really call out, you know, the things that you're talking about, 519 00:51:43,930 --> 00:51:48,579 don't interrupt the, the content or the sequence of the content of that course. 520 00:51:48,580 --> 00:51:51,370 I mean, when I was teaching it, I would get my syllabus in line. 521 00:51:51,370 --> 00:51:56,980 I was like, okay, I think I can make it through all my content in this 11 weeks or, you know, 14 weeks or whatever it was. 522 00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:02,229 And you don't want to just assume you want to talk about career services. 523 00:52:02,230 --> 00:52:05,230 I'm not talking about we're taking up an entire class time just from a resume, 524 00:52:05,230 --> 00:52:11,290 a workshop where we're talking specifically about just trying to sweet, you know, tweak some of the assignments here and there. 525 00:52:12,210 --> 00:52:19,920 Totally. Yeah. And I think that is the myth is that if career services are coming to a classroom,

they're going to talk about resumes. 526 00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:29,880 And I think that's just so far from what career services can actually do in partnership with faculty. 527 00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:32,819 Um, there is a place for resumes, 528 00:52:32,820 --> 00:52:40,290 but Career Services has their own workshops and webinars and things like that that we don't need to disrupt classroom time for, 529 00:52:40,980 --> 00:52:45,900 for the things that we're already doing. The the goal is truly just to enhance. 530 00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:50,320 What's there and and help connect those dots for students. 531 00:52:50,330 --> 00:52:58,010 Just literally a layer on top, not an adding any extras, not sabotaging a 60 minute class. 532 00:52:58,010 --> 00:53:06,310 Right. We're not trying to do that. We're not trying to throw off the the timeline or take points for a resume, 533 00:53:06,950 --> 00:53:14,510 just ultimately complement what's already happening and helping students find that relevance for their future careers. 534 00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,440 Yeah. There's so much, there's so much. 535 00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:27,679 And I think all of these collaborations, the faculty who were the most resistant, we ended up with the coolest courses. 536 00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:31,850 And at the end they were like, I really thought this was going to be dumb, Nicole. 537 00:53:31,910 --> 00:53:35,900 I thought there was no way. But I see it and this is really cool. 538 00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:43,819 And so I, I hope that I can and that I'm conveying that there is magic in these moments. 539 00:53:43,820 --> 00:53:50,000 Again, if we are the educators, we say we are, and our true intent is to keep students at the center, 540 00:53:50,420 --> 00:53:54,170 then we must think about what happens to them beyond our walls. 541 00:53:54,770 --> 00:54:02,840 And partnering with career services is one of the easiest ways, because the lens of career services, you guys always have that focus. 542 00:54:03,170 --> 00:54:07,430 You guys is only focus is what happens to them when they leave here. 543 00:54:07,820 --> 00:54:19,670 So your lens plus the faculty you know expert it's magic can be I know magic is cheesy but truly the partnerships are phenomenal. 544 00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:24,260 It's really good work and the faculty will feel it will feel it too. 545 00:54:25,450 --> 00:54:31,740 Yeah. I think so too. Thanks so much, Nicole, for, um, you know, sharing some of your. 546 00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:36,840 Just good experiences and then. Yeah, some of the success stories. 547 00:54:36,870 --> 00:54:40,890 Uh, before we wrap up, are there any any final sort of things you want to say? 548 00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:46,559 I think, um, what you just close with was a really great, great thing for everybody to think about. 549 00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:48,630 But, um, any other final thoughts? 550 00:54:50,010 --> 00:54:58,139 No, I think, yeah, I think where I, where we left it, I, I've hope that I've at least sparked some interest and I would say, 551 00:54:58,140 --> 00:55:01,680 if nothing else, Kevin, I mean, we've had conversations. 552 00:55:03,390 --> 00:55:10,620 The just to conversation with you, I think, is if if not, if nothing else happens outside of this podcast, 553 00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:16,290 if people listen to this podcast and say, Kevin, let's just chat, let's just see what career services can do for my class. 554 00:55:16,650 --> 00:55:22,350 I think that would be a goal accomplished, because they would find that a partnership with you would be so valuable. 555 00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:28,670 Yeah I agree. Yeah. And thanks for calling that out and your support. 556 00:55:28,820 --> 00:55:33,020 I really, really appreciate that. Nicole. Um, okay. 557 00:55:33,020 --> 00:55:37,249 Well, with that, uh, just a proper thank you for joining me on this episode. 558 00:55:37,250 --> 00:55:42,590 I really appreciate your time. And, um, I celebrate your efforts and the work that you're doing. 559 00:55:43,010 --> 00:55:50,030 Uh, so I'll make sure to put your contact information in the shownotes and, uh, put the link to it in the show notes as well. 560 00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:53,360 Um, and wish you all the best. 561 00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:56,380 Awesome. And thank you, Kevin, for having me. 562 00:55:56,390 --> 00:56:01,670 And again, if anyone wants to chat about this too, if you want to loop me in to these conversations, I am happy to. 563 00:56:02,030 --> 00:56:05,360 Um, if someone's like Kevin, I don't really want to talk to you. I to talk to Nicole. Cool. 564 00:56:06,020 --> 00:56:09,709 Let's do it. I'll. I'll fly to South Dakota. Um, not when it's cold. 565 00:56:09,710 --> 00:56:14,870 But, you know, I think my I think my time is a little bit limited because you guys are going to start getting pretty cold here soon. 566 00:56:14,870 --> 00:56:23,460 But thank you, Kevin. Thanks again to Nicole for your time and work. 567 00:56:23,970 --> 00:56:29,070 I'm really happy with the scope of our conversation. I feel like we were able to cover different topics and share specific. 568 00:56:30,130 --> 00:56:34,750 Also, thank you to you for listening and letting career development into courses. 569 00:56:34,750 --> 00:56:38,530 It's vital and I appreciate anyone who is trying to make it happen in their courses. 570 00:56:39,310 --> 00:56:44,740 Please check the show notes on how to connect with me or Nicole if you want to continue this conversation individually.