Full Transcript for Dove Cameron: Toxic Patterns, Engagement, & Entering 30's

79 00:03:49.500 --> 00:03:52.340 voice and stand up for herself. And so it's a 80 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:55.280 whole thing to repress us. But then I'm speaking to 81 00:03:55.300 --> 00:03:56.939 all these women recently and they're like, wait, it's amazing. 82 00:03:56.969 --> 00:03:58.669 I'm like, why does it always feel like we grew 83 00:03:58.710 --> 00:04:00.930 up as these young girls and we're like so terrified 84 00:04:00.969 --> 00:04:04.710 of aging because there's so much rhetoric around you basically 85 00:04:04.750 --> 00:04:07.770 disappear and your worth is essentially gone if you're not 86 00:04:07.789 --> 00:04:10.469 like a fresh 21 year old. And that's why I 87 00:04:10.490 --> 00:04:13.349 love these conversations where like, guys, again, I'm sitting with 88 00:04:13.409 --> 00:04:17.040 a woman who's like, I'm feeling better. What a concept. 89 00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:20.990 Yeah, I think like, I think that, I mean, if 90 00:04:21.029 --> 00:04:25.899 you look at the, who would benefit from the messaging of, 91 00:04:26.769 --> 00:04:31.170 you're only valuable when you are barely legal. You're only 92 00:04:31.230 --> 00:04:35.319 valuable when you don't know yourself yet. You're only valuable 93 00:04:35.379 --> 00:04:38.959 when your body still has leftovers of looking like a child. 94 00:04:39.139 --> 00:04:42.160 If you look at those things and you ask yourself, 95 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:45.399 what is the demographic that benefits from that messaging? It's 96 00:04:45.420 --> 00:04:48.079 not us. Women aren't pushing that. 97 00:04:48.100 --> 00:04:49.040 There's a vested interest in. 98 00:04:52.860 --> 00:04:55.899 Highlighting those years that truly, in my experience, were the 99 00:04:56.060 --> 00:04:59.680 worst fucking years. Like my 20s were the worst. So 100 00:04:59.740 --> 00:05:03.639 I think there's a vested interest in glorifying that because 101 00:05:03.660 --> 00:05:06.670 then it sort of keeps us in a position of, yeah, disempowerment. 102 00:05:07.189 --> 00:05:09.490 I do think also something interesting you just said is 103 00:05:09.509 --> 00:05:12.550 you've always kind of felt older. And I think there's 104 00:05:12.930 --> 00:05:15.430 a beauty, yes, of getting older, but then we also, 105 00:05:15.449 --> 00:05:18.529 we have to talk about our looks, right? Where it's 106 00:05:18.569 --> 00:05:21.490 like it can feel great, but then there's the standard- 107 00:05:22.100 --> 00:05:26.060 That we feel pressure, especially in this industry. Have you 108 00:05:26.120 --> 00:05:30.129 ever felt pressures around Botox or fillers or editing and 109 00:05:30.290 --> 00:05:33.750 all of that that comes with our job to maintain 110 00:05:34.490 --> 00:05:35.889 your stance in this industry? 111 00:05:37.350 --> 00:05:37.649 Yeah. 112 00:05:38.170 --> 00:05:41.389 I mean, that's a really good– and I think like– 113 00:05:42.439 --> 00:05:45.439 I think I have a complex answer around that. When 114 00:05:45.459 --> 00:05:50.519 I was younger, I had a really intense– sort of 115 00:05:50.579 --> 00:05:52.699 set of like rules and strictures about like what I 116 00:05:52.740 --> 00:05:55.149 was allowed to be and who people wanted me to 117 00:05:55.189 --> 00:05:58.329 be and how I was going to represent that, dive 118 00:05:58.350 --> 00:06:02.430 headfirst into that, always be that, right? And a huge 119 00:06:02.470 --> 00:06:04.870 part of that was like an infantilization and like I 120 00:06:04.910 --> 00:06:09.519 was just so scared to not be 18. Like that 121 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:12.620 was something that was really scary for me, not because 122 00:06:13.100 --> 00:06:16.360 I believed it, but because the culture was so loud 123 00:06:16.420 --> 00:06:19.310 about it. And especially my position in the culture, starting 124 00:06:19.350 --> 00:06:23.379 out on Disney Channel, being blonde and being so bubbly 125 00:06:23.399 --> 00:06:26.279 and open with the world in a way that was 126 00:06:26.339 --> 00:06:30.139 not healthy for me. And so a couple years ago, 127 00:06:30.180 --> 00:06:34.120 I had this big reckoning with myself. I had like 128 00:06:34.199 --> 00:06:36.670 finally let my body just be what it is. Like 129 00:06:36.709 --> 00:06:39.209 I stopped doing all the things to my body that 130 00:06:39.250 --> 00:06:43.800 I was doing before that were really self-harming. And so I... 131 00:06:44.829 --> 00:06:46.959 processed a lot and I wrote a lot and I 132 00:06:46.980 --> 00:06:48.399 went to a lot of therapy and I came out 133 00:06:48.439 --> 00:06:50.480 on the other side of it like I guess sort 134 00:06:50.500 --> 00:06:55.339 of externally unrecognizable but I really feel like I've bucked 135 00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:58.100 any sort of fear about aging in that way. 136 00:06:58.519 --> 00:07:00.779 And it's beautiful to hear you say like it's actually 137 00:07:00.819 --> 00:07:02.000 happened recently. 138 00:07:02.300 --> 00:07:04.319 Yeah I also think like this is was sort of 139 00:07:04.379 --> 00:07:07.620 an accidental thing that happened but like I think so 140 00:07:07.660 --> 00:07:09.459 much of what I was doing to myself which is 141 00:07:09.500 --> 00:07:12.470 a very broad umbrella because like I don't want to 142 00:07:12.569 --> 00:07:17.050 trivialize any of the things that I was going through, experiencing, 143 00:07:18.610 --> 00:07:23.290 doing to myself. But under that very broad umbrella of 144 00:07:23.329 --> 00:07:24.709 all of the things that I used to do that 145 00:07:24.750 --> 00:07:29.250 I now no longer do, part of what made it 146 00:07:29.310 --> 00:07:31.810 really clear to me that I didn't want to torture 147 00:07:31.850 --> 00:07:34.550 myself anymore, and for me it was torture. Like for 148 00:07:34.589 --> 00:07:37.970 me it was torture. Anything aesthetic or anything to do 149 00:07:37.990 --> 00:07:43.689 with food or overexercising, everything in that. genre of like

shape-shifting, 150 00:07:43.709 --> 00:07:47.930 I would call it for me, was really self-harming because 151 00:07:47.970 --> 00:07:50.389 it wasn't for me. It wasn't to feel beautiful. It 152 00:07:50.490 --> 00:07:55.670 was in fact to feel safe. I had it in 153 00:07:55.689 --> 00:07:59.800 my head that like if I was physically perfect, no 154 00:07:59.959 --> 00:08:02.240 one would harm me. Like in this really weird kind 155 00:08:02.259 --> 00:08:06.290 of juvenile way of like maybe I'll be accepted. Maybe 156 00:08:06.329 --> 00:08:08.870 I'll be loved. Maybe the bad, bad things that used 157 00:08:08.910 --> 00:08:11.449 to happen won't happen. It was like this way of 158 00:08:11.529 --> 00:08:17.189 controlling the one thing I could control to hopefully create 159 00:08:17.209 --> 00:08:21.209 an environment where like bad things wouldn't happen. I don't 160 00:08:21.230 --> 00:08:23.350 know if that makes any sense. It does. I came 161 00:08:23.389 --> 00:08:29.259 from such a crazy background and like litany of experiences 162 00:08:29.319 --> 00:08:31.899 that I was just looking for anything to grab onto 163 00:08:31.939 --> 00:08:33.980 that felt like This is my choice. 164 00:08:34.559 --> 00:08:37.580 Can we get into your background? Because I want to 165 00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:39.970 get into all of this. Like there's so many things 166 00:08:39.990 --> 00:08:46.509 that you're talking about that I think are unfortunately, but realistically, 167 00:08:46.529 --> 00:08:49.549 like very relatable for a lot of women who are 168 00:08:49.570 --> 00:08:51.720 going to be listening today. And so I think kind 169 00:08:51.740 --> 00:08:55.240 of having a little bit of your background and understanding 170 00:08:55.279 --> 00:08:58.379 where you came from, I think will also give more 171 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:02.240 context to then these themes that we're going to talk about. Okay, 172 00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:04.940 let's go all the way back to the beginning. Grew 173 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:08.259 up on a small island in Washington. What was your 174 00:09:08.299 --> 00:09:09.740 town like? Paint the picture. 175 00:09:10.779 --> 00:09:15.200 Bainbridge Island. Shout out Bainbridge Island. A world that only 176 00:09:15.259 --> 00:09:16.200 exists for the people that live there. 177 00:09:16.220 --> 00:09:18.679 Like a big population, small? Small. 178 00:09:18.940 --> 00:09:23.539 I mean, like 20,000. Okay. So like for an island, small, 179 00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:25.850 but for like a town, maybe medium. I don't know. 180 00:09:26.009 --> 00:09:27.809 I don't know. I've lost a lot of the scale. 181 00:09:28.269 --> 00:09:35.169 But Bainbridge is... really idyllic it's like you so you're 182 00:09:35.230 --> 00:09:38.269 in seattle you land in seattle you take a ferry 183 00:09:38.309 --> 00:09:40.379 boat 20 minute ferry boat ride you can walk on 184 00:09:40.460 --> 00:09:43.279 or you can drive on if it's like 180 cars 185 00:09:43.340 --> 00:09:44.700 or something someone's gonna have to back me up on 186 00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:49.580 that she's like um and it's super quaint like it's 187 00:09:49.639 --> 00:09:54.210 very there's like no crime you know they like opened 188 00:09:54.250 --> 00:09:57.870 up a weed store like 10 years ago like if 189 00:09:57.889 --> 00:10:00.659 there's any crime it like rocks the fucking– it's like 190 00:10:00.659 --> 00:10:03.340 10 years and then nothing happens after that. 191 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:05.360 It's kind of like the things that you see on TV, 192 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:07.470 like the small town, everyone knows everyone. 193 00:10:07.590 --> 00:10:10.269 It's very that. It's also like the businesses are named 194 00:10:10.330 --> 00:10:13.470 after the family that's been there for five generations and 195 00:10:13.990 --> 00:10:16.330 they all– like I went to school with the same 196 00:10:16.350 --> 00:10:18.309 last names as my sister and my mom and everybody, 197 00:10:18.350 --> 00:10:19.750 you know. Got it. It's like that. 198 00:10:20.259 --> 00:10:23.059 And what did you do for fun as a kid? Oh, God. 199 00:10:23.639 --> 00:10:27.909 Fucking nothing. I mean, like, no, because it's– Dumb. No, 200 00:10:27.990 --> 00:10:29.990 because it's such a beautiful place, but it's, like, you 201 00:10:30.009 --> 00:10:31.990 know one of those places where, like, the kids start, like, 202 00:10:32.029 --> 00:10:34.509 smoking weed really early because they're just so bored. Like, 203 00:10:34.549 --> 00:10:38.149 it was like that. Was that you? No, it wasn't me. 204 00:10:38.330 --> 00:10:39.730 I mean, like, I was hanging out with those kids, 205 00:10:39.830 --> 00:10:40.929 but I was, like, scared. 206 00:10:41.509 --> 00:10:41.929 Classic. 207 00:10:42.169 --> 00:10:42.769 Yeah. 208 00:10:42.789 --> 00:10:45.190 You're, like, pretending you're smoking, but you're like, oh, my God. 209 00:10:45.230 --> 00:10:47.870 I was like, I'm a singer. I was, like, going 210 00:10:47.909 --> 00:10:52.279 to musical theater being like– No, but I didn't. I didn't. 211 00:10:52.649 --> 00:10:54.309 But I was in with that. Like I got, you know, 212 00:10:54.330 --> 00:10:56.750 I got a tattoo at 14 kind of town. 213 00:10:57.049 --> 00:10:58.190 The Capricorn tattoo? 214 00:10:58.350 --> 00:10:59.289 Yeah. 215 00:10:59.990 --> 00:11:05.080 Community theater. What did you like about being on stage? 216 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:08.139 Like were you confident, young girl, like ready to go 217 00:11:08.259 --> 00:11:08.639 and okay? 218 00:11:08.659 --> 00:11:13.120 Yeah, I was. I was one of those like– I 219 00:11:13.159 --> 00:11:15.379 think I was probably pretty annoying like when I was younger. 220 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:19.340 I was like– I was very confident. I was very friendly. 221 00:11:19.360 --> 00:11:23.000 I was very just personable. Like I was very– wanted 222 00:11:23.019 --> 00:11:27.710 to talk to everyone, wanted to be

friends, very loud. 223 00:11:27.789 --> 00:11:29.269 Like I don't know. I grew up with parents who 224 00:11:29.309 --> 00:11:32.009 like were artists. And so they were like, whoever you 225 00:11:32.029 --> 00:11:35.330 want to be, you be her. And I was like, great. 226 00:11:35.450 --> 00:11:38.309 Got it. Like written it down. Got it. So I 227 00:11:38.350 --> 00:11:41.970 was very confident. I was very– For a while. And 228 00:11:42.009 --> 00:11:43.889 then I feel like middle school kind of like beats 229 00:11:43.929 --> 00:11:44.289 it out of you. 230 00:11:44.370 --> 00:11:44.549 Of course. 231 00:11:44.570 --> 00:11:46.090 Like middle school on the other side, you're like, wait, 232 00:11:46.809 --> 00:11:48.750 I'm being perceived. People hate me. 233 00:11:49.070 --> 00:11:53.070 I think something that's really relatable of the middle school 234 00:11:53.129 --> 00:11:55.950 commentary is like, and it makes me sad for our 235 00:11:55.990 --> 00:11:59.320 younger selves is there's the version of us before, like 236 00:11:59.340 --> 00:12:02.379 you said, being perceived by your peers. And there's the 237 00:12:02.409 --> 00:12:05.419 version of you at home that just has this endless 238 00:12:05.620 --> 00:12:07.539 idea of who you can be in the world that 239 00:12:07.580 --> 00:12:09.710 you want to be in. And then You start to 240 00:12:09.769 --> 00:12:13.269 interact and life happens and horrible things happen. And then 241 00:12:13.690 --> 00:12:16.850 that starts to mold you, which is just life. And 242 00:12:16.889 --> 00:12:20.230 I know obviously something horrible happened when you were eight 243 00:12:20.269 --> 00:12:26.580 years old. Your best friend was murdered by her father, 244 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:29.940 which is like saying that out loud. I don't even 245 00:12:29.960 --> 00:12:33.799 know how to communicate how sorry and– I can't even 246 00:12:33.820 --> 00:12:37.500 imagine how painful that time was and even still decades later, 247 00:12:37.539 --> 00:12:39.419 how painful that must be even to talk about it. 248 00:12:39.429 --> 00:12:45.190 Do you mind though, sharing like how you found out 249 00:12:45.269 --> 00:12:48.070 this news and what happened during that time in your life? 250 00:12:48.149 --> 00:12:51.330 Because eight years old is like, life is great. And then. 251 00:12:51.350 --> 00:12:51.429 Yeah. 252 00:12:51.769 --> 00:12:52.549 Yeah. 253 00:12:52.870 --> 00:12:53.210 Yeah. 254 00:12:53.230 --> 00:12:57.190 It was really, yeah, I guess it was like that. We, 255 00:12:58.090 --> 00:13:02.169 we had a very sort of like a, yeah, idyllic 256 00:13:02.210 --> 00:13:08.090 sort of foresty, um, childhood. Haley was her name. She, um, 257 00:13:09.230 --> 00:13:14.320 lived also on the island for the majority of our childhood. And, uh, 258 00:13:15.759 --> 00:13:17.820 we had met when we were two, like, it was 259 00:13:17.860 --> 00:13:21.370 just one of those things where, you know, like they're 260 00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:23.769 like some little girls, they meet each other and they're like, oh, 261 00:13:23.789 --> 00:13:28.940 that's like, you just, yeah. Um, And it's funny, I 262 00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:32.559 rarely talk about this. Not because it's, like, a problem 263 00:13:32.580 --> 00:13:34.879 to talk about, but just, like, it's so not the 264 00:13:34.940 --> 00:13:41.009 first thing that people usually ask me. But she... Her 265 00:13:41.070 --> 00:13:44.509 parents had gotten a divorce, and it was really messy. 266 00:13:45.750 --> 00:13:51.590 And I had stayed with her dad for, like, quite 267 00:13:51.610 --> 00:13:54.799 a lot of the summer before this happened. And I 268 00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:58.330 think even at eight, I, like... It was like a 269 00:13:58.370 --> 00:14:00.470 dark energy, right? Like he was a very angry man. 270 00:14:02.950 --> 00:14:07.950 And I was at home one day sick from school. 271 00:14:07.970 --> 00:14:14.870 So it must've been like third grade. And I, it was, 272 00:14:15.009 --> 00:14:17.090 we had like landlines and it was like that era 273 00:14:17.129 --> 00:14:18.870 where if you picked up a landline, like my parents 274 00:14:18.909 --> 00:14:23.070 were in their office, like in a different building, you know, 275 00:14:23.210 --> 00:14:27.279 nearby at home. And I was at home. And they 276 00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:30.620 had an incoming call for their office and I picked 277 00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:33.039 it up because I was just like a kid and 278 00:14:33.059 --> 00:14:38.659 I was just like listening in. And it was actually 279 00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:43.470 our preschool principal who was tasked with making the call, Janice, 280 00:14:43.730 --> 00:14:45.970 who was an angel, an absolute angel. And that's where 281 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:50.049 we met. And she basically said like, this is going 282 00:14:50.070 --> 00:14:54.230 to be a really, really disturbing call. Haley and Kelsey 283 00:14:54.389 --> 00:14:57.330 are gone. Steve is gone and he took the girls 284 00:14:57.529 --> 00:15:01.799 with him is what she said, like just very quick. 285 00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:03.919 And I think it was my mom on the phone. 286 00:15:04.600 --> 00:15:07.120 And I remember her like decompressing, not knowing how to 287 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:10.700 handle it. And then I think they heard me like 288 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:15.009 express some sort of child noise, whatever that was, like 289 00:15:15.049 --> 00:15:18.350 a gasp. And then they came in and then we 290 00:15:18.370 --> 00:15:19.909 just like didn't get out of bed for like two 291 00:15:19.950 --> 00:15:22.149 days because it was so impossible to process. 292 00:15:23.029 --> 00:15:27.539 And eight years old, like, Why I wanted to ask 293 00:15:27.559 --> 00:15:31.850 you about that more is because I think that is 294 00:15:31.889 --> 00:15:35.090 so formative for everyone around you, but it's like that's 295 00:15:35.129 -->

00:15:37.590 something that like stays in your body because I feel 296 00:15:37.610 --> 00:15:39.730 like at that young of an age, and I'm sure 297 00:15:39.750 --> 00:15:43.590 a lot of people can relate to trauma at young ages, 298 00:15:43.669 --> 00:15:47.200 not that exact trauma, but like there's something as human 299 00:15:47.269 --> 00:15:52.240 beings where when it's that young, you probably don't talk 300 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:54.200 about it that much at that young age? Cause like 301 00:15:54.379 --> 00:15:56.220 what is mental health and how do you even speak 302 00:15:56.259 --> 00:15:58.980 about these things? So you internalize it in your body 303 00:15:59.159 --> 00:16:03.659 and then it sticks with you. Yeah. How do you 304 00:16:03.700 --> 00:16:07.639 think losing her kind of started to shift the way 305 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:08.820 that you saw the world? 306 00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:14.919 That's a really good question. I think, well, my parents 307 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:17.080 tried to put me in therapy for a while cause 308 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:20.090 I think even they knew like, cause it, even at 309 00:16:20.129 --> 00:16:22.090 the time, like this was 22 years ago. So it's 310 00:16:22.110 --> 00:16:24.909 like mental health wasn't, the internet wasn't what it was. 311 00:16:24.990 --> 00:16:27.470 My parents didn't really know, like there was no therapy 312 00:16:27.490 --> 00:16:29.049 speak in the way that we all kind of can 313 00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:32.320 psychoanalyze each other and like pop psychology each other now. 314 00:16:32.379 --> 00:16:35.620 Like they really didn't know. But they knew enough to 315 00:16:35.659 --> 00:16:38.919 put me in therapy. Like I was very, very, very, very, 316 00:16:38.980 --> 00:16:44.039 very disturbed by knowing someone for all that time and 317 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:48.299 being like raised around them and then realizing that they 318 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:52.460 are capable of doing something so harrowing um and i 319 00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:55.919 think that that kind of like fissured my psychology like 320 00:16:55.950 --> 00:16:57.710 my brain and how i process things like kind of 321 00:16:58.129 --> 00:16:59.509 like i don't want to be dark but like kind 322 00:16:59.529 --> 00:17:04.190 of forever like i still have uh issues and you 323 00:17:04.210 --> 00:17:05.829 know there were more things that happened that sort of 324 00:17:05.950 --> 00:17:10.390 echoed that experience um but i still have experiences where 325 00:17:10.410 --> 00:17:14.549 i'm like I'm grateful for the relationships that I have. 326 00:17:14.589 --> 00:17:16.549 As long as I have them, I'm grateful for the 327 00:17:16.569 --> 00:17:18.769 good things as long as I have them, because truly 328 00:17:18.990 --> 00:17:23.839 at any moment, it can be just an entirely flipped script, 329 00:17:23.890 --> 00:17:28.480 black and white situation, which I think I have acceptance 330 00:17:28.539 --> 00:17:31.619 around because I've had so much practice at it. But 331 00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:35.339 I also think like, you know, it is something that I, 332 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:39.619 I think I forget is, is playing, is running my 333 00:17:39.660 --> 00:17:42.289 brain so much. Like it's, really the source of most 334 00:17:42.309 --> 00:17:43.029 of my anxiety. 335 00:17:43.509 --> 00:17:45.650 I know in the past you kind of talked about 336 00:17:45.690 --> 00:17:51.950 how this death accelerated a darkness that was going on 337 00:17:52.089 --> 00:17:53.730 in your own home. 338 00:17:53.910 --> 00:17:54.170 Yeah. 339 00:17:54.470 --> 00:17:57.450 Can you kind of explain what you meant by that? 340 00:17:58.859 --> 00:18:02.319 Yeah, I think I don't actually know as an adult 341 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:07.160 like how to rationalize the correlation between this loss and 342 00:18:07.180 --> 00:18:11.849 then sort of subsequently what happened with my family. But 343 00:18:11.910 --> 00:18:14.150 I think it was just, like my mom could probably 344 00:18:14.190 --> 00:18:17.049 tell you better, but I think it was just sort 345 00:18:17.069 --> 00:18:22.519 of an invisible chipping away at an already sort of 346 00:18:22.579 --> 00:18:28.039 shaky foundation that was my parents' marriage. And I want 347 00:18:28.059 --> 00:18:32.589 to state from the beginning, like my mother is totally 348 00:18:32.650 --> 00:18:34.390 okay with me speaking about this stuff. I would never 349 00:18:34.430 --> 00:18:38.269 speak out of turn. And I think my dad would 350 00:18:38.309 --> 00:18:43.849 be too. But I think it was, my parents were 351 00:18:43.950 --> 00:18:47.349 not a love match. Like my parents were not a 352 00:18:47.369 --> 00:18:51.390 love match. My dad was at least, at the very 353 00:18:51.450 --> 00:18:56.079 least not straight. They got married because they got pregnant. 354 00:18:57.160 --> 00:18:59.859 And it was like, my dad came from a Catholic 355 00:18:59.900 --> 00:19:03.000 family and they had love for each other. Like I 356 00:19:03.059 --> 00:19:06.460 see home videos from when I was little or before 357 00:19:06.509 --> 00:19:08.509 I was born. And like, I think my dad truly 358 00:19:08.710 --> 00:19:12.329 loved my mom, just not as much. a husband and wife. 359 00:19:12.490 --> 00:19:13.349 Right, like romantic. 360 00:19:13.529 --> 00:19:18.390 Yeah. And I don't think he ever fully accepted that 361 00:19:18.450 --> 00:19:25.970 about himself. And so they just had this sort of 362 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:28.619 like they both wanted something from each other that the 363 00:19:28.660 --> 00:19:34.759 other person couldn't give, right? And I knew that there 364 00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:40.180 was something off. Like your whole life? Yeah, I think 365 00:19:40.220 --> 00:19:42.269 I would say right around eight. I would say right 366 00:19:42.309 --> 00:19:46.599 around that time. It's funny. Someone called me out once 367

00:19:46.619 --> 00:19:48.269 for being like, damn, so much shit happened to this 368 00:19:48.289 --> 00:19:49.950 girl when she was eight. And I was like, actually, yeah. 369 00:19:50.170 --> 00:19:53.279 That was kind of the year. Banner year. 370 00:19:53.299 --> 00:19:55.160 That was the big year. The big eight for you. 371 00:19:55.220 --> 00:19:58.079 Some people it's like 21 or 18. You're like eight. 372 00:19:58.200 --> 00:19:59.579 My frontal lobe developed at eight. 373 00:19:59.740 --> 00:19:59.900 Eight. 374 00:20:00.059 --> 00:20:00.660 Try me. 375 00:20:01.220 --> 00:20:01.839 That's true. 376 00:20:19.029 --> 00:20:19.609 It's here! 377 00:20:20.089 --> 00:20:25.910 Heineken Greenlight October Bank Holiday Weekend Galway Big Acts Intimate 378 00:20:25.950 --> 00:20:31.109 Venues Friday October 23rd Catch Joshua E. Dayhen at Monroe's 379 00:20:31.410 --> 00:20:36.069 Saturday October 24th Catch High at Electric Sunday October 25th 380 00:20:36.509 --> 00:20:39.970 Catch Get Down Services at the Roshin Dove Sunday October 381 00:20:39.990 --> 00:20:43.920 25th Catch Shuga Boo and Ahmed with Love at Omplucon 382 00:20:44.200 --> 00:20:47.539 Tickets at heinekengreenlight.ie Get the facts if you drink aware 383 00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:48.680 visit drinkaware.ie. 384 00:20:51.509 --> 00:20:57.349 In terms of your childhood in your home, your dad 385 00:20:57.410 --> 00:21:04.109 struggled with depression and bipolar disorder. And that's a lot. 386 00:21:04.190 --> 00:21:09.380 That's a lot to, as a kid, handle. And I'm 387 00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:13.319 sure you're sitting here today with a different perspective on 388 00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:15.359 it had I met you 10 years ago and then 389 00:21:15.420 --> 00:21:18.500 had I talked to you 15 years to 20 years, 390 00:21:18.579 --> 00:21:21.059 because I'm sure as you become an adult, you have 391 00:21:21.079 --> 00:21:24.140 a different perspective and you're able to process things differently 392 00:21:24.220 --> 00:21:30.589 and empathy comes into play. But when did you realize 393 00:21:30.890 --> 00:21:32.849 that he was struggling with these things? Like, did your 394 00:21:32.869 --> 00:21:35.890 family have a conversation about a diagnosis? 395 00:21:38.069 --> 00:21:44.319 You know, yeah, we did. It was such a fucking blur. 396 00:21:44.470 --> 00:21:50.700 But I knew, I knew that there was something. Cause 397 00:21:50.740 --> 00:21:53.240 like I said, I was a very precocious kid. Like 398 00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:55.680 I was not, there was never a time where I 399 00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:58.240 was sheltered and then suddenly I was like big new world. 400 00:21:58.259 --> 00:22:03.329 Like I was at the adult table. Yeah. Um, yeah. 401 00:22:03.380 --> 00:22:05.009 In a big way and not in a way that 402 00:22:05.029 --> 00:22:07.420 I regret either. Like in a way that I actually 403 00:22:07.460 --> 00:22:12.109 think is what I needed. Uh, I think the thing 404 00:22:12.130 -->

00:22:13.750 that I would say is what I was the most 405 00:22:13.829 --> 00:22:18.410 aware of was that my dad had really intense emotional swings. 406 00:22:18.430 --> 00:22:20.329 Like I knew that I knew how to be prepared 407 00:22:20.390 --> 00:22:24.910 for that. I knew how to hopefully work around that, 408 00:22:25.430 --> 00:22:30.589 which also then like, obviously splinters off into like, how 409 00:22:30.650 --> 00:22:32.589 your brain works as you get older and affects who 410 00:22:32.609 --> 00:22:36.490 you date and what you accept. But that's not like I, 411 00:22:37.029 --> 00:22:39.009 I know this might be controversial. This is just my 412 00:22:39.049 --> 00:22:42.460 personal opinion about my father. But I truly don't think 413 00:22:42.500 --> 00:22:45.240 it was his fault. I think he was so traumatized 414 00:22:45.420 --> 00:22:49.619 and so repressed. And he had a really, really, really, really, 415 00:22:49.660 --> 00:22:54.490 really rough childhood and life and all of that. And 416 00:22:56.009 --> 00:22:58.009 I think that he was doing his best with the 417 00:22:58.049 --> 00:23:00.329 tools that he had and he didn't have enough tools. And, 418 00:23:01.769 --> 00:23:05.059 you know, there were times when like if something completely 419 00:23:05.119 --> 00:23:08.460 divorced from something that I did or my sister or 420 00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:10.920 my mom did happen, but it was like, we were 421 00:23:10.940 --> 00:23:13.079 the person in the room, not really my sister. My 422 00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:16.920 sister and him were better about this, because she was 423 00:23:16.940 --> 00:23:19.519 just less combative. And I think she would also be 424 00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:21.700 okay with me saying that. Like she was much more like, 425 00:23:23.259 --> 00:23:25.460 she had learned to avoid his triggers in like a 426 00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:29.640 different way. Whereas I would try to avoid them. And 427 00:23:29.660 --> 00:23:31.500 then if they happened, I would sort of like fight back. 428 00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:34.349 Because I was like, you, I don't care that I'm 12. 429 00:23:34.349 --> 00:23:37.430 You cannot talk to me like that. Which was not 430 00:23:37.670 --> 00:23:39.430 something that worked well. 431 00:23:39.450 --> 00:23:39.650 Right. 432 00:23:40.289 --> 00:23:42.910 Not something that earned me gold stars in the family household. 433 00:23:44.619 --> 00:23:46.039 My mom, I think, loved it. My mom was always like, 434 00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:48.700 go baby. But my dad really didn't like being challenged. 435 00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:52.119 And so we had a bit of a tenuous relationship 436 00:23:52.180 --> 00:23:55.299 as I got older. But I, you know, I would 437 00:23:55.339 --> 00:23:57.559 come home and something would happen and suddenly like all 438 00:23:57.579 --> 00:23:59.559 the VHS would be in the trash. And he'd be like, you, 439 00:24:00.259 --> 00:24:02.980 no more nice things. You cannot

have this. Like you're 440 00:24:03.019 --> 00:24:05.519 being punished for this thing. And it was like, for what? 441 00:24:05.700 --> 00:24:09.130 You know, it was just something... It was something that 442 00:24:09.150 --> 00:24:11.650 was happening in his brain purely for him that, like, 443 00:24:11.730 --> 00:24:18.599 he had either, like, mislabeled, like, something that I had 444 00:24:18.660 --> 00:24:20.680 done wrong that was, like, I think I've told this 445 00:24:20.700 --> 00:24:23.400 story before, but, like, I had this Barbie bubblegum toothpaste. 446 00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:26.680 And one day he came home from the office, like, 447 00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:29.440 really stressed. And he used it in this kind of, like, 448 00:24:29.500 --> 00:24:31.900 aggressive joking way, like, I'm going to take the toothpaste. 449 00:24:31.960 --> 00:24:36.269 And I, like, an eight-year-old was like, no, that's my tooth. Like, ew, germs, 450 00:24:36.329 --> 00:24:42.000 whatever I said. And he heard that as like, he 451 00:24:42.019 --> 00:24:44.740 was like, I pay for everything in this house, you know, 452 00:24:44.779 --> 00:24:46.700 like in this sort of like, you don't know how 453 00:24:46.740 --> 00:24:48.809 good you have it. And then for like a week, 454 00:24:51.029 --> 00:24:54.009 like wouldn't talk to me, wouldn't look at me, wouldn't 455 00:24:54.250 --> 00:25:00.049 tell me he loved me, like just really. Just really strange, 456 00:25:00.150 --> 00:25:02.890 like things that at the time I didn't recognize for 457 00:25:02.930 --> 00:25:05.150 what they were because now I– it was strange then. 458 00:25:05.190 --> 00:25:07.990 It's not strange now because I understand it more now. 459 00:25:08.390 --> 00:25:12.759 You talking about kind of being the defiant sibling of 460 00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:15.579 the one that– I think that's also very relatable of 461 00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:21.019 having different childhood experiences with your parents than your siblings. 462 00:25:21.220 --> 00:25:21.319 Yes. 463 00:25:22.269 --> 00:25:24.309 Weird because then when you get older, you're like, that's 464 00:25:24.390 --> 00:25:26.589 not how it happened. And they're like, no, that's not 465 00:25:26.769 --> 00:25:27.349 how it happened. 466 00:25:27.369 --> 00:25:29.049 Or like mom and dad are like this or this happened. 467 00:25:29.069 --> 00:25:30.890 And it's like, it's not even events. It's like, that's 468 00:25:30.930 --> 00:25:32.930 not who I grew up with. 469 00:25:33.079 --> 00:25:35.940 Oh, how nice for you because that wasn't my reality. 470 00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:41.539 When you would be, you know, going back and challenging 471 00:25:41.579 --> 00:25:43.200 your father and be like, no, I'm going to stand 472 00:25:43.259 --> 00:25:46.400 up for myself. As at such a young age, I'm 473 00:25:46.460 --> 00:25:49.910 assuming though, when it got heightened to some capacity, I 474 00:25:49.950 --> 00:25:51.289 don't know, I don't want to speak for you, but 475 00:25:51.329 --> 00:25:55.230 like there could be moments you had to dissociate or 476 00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:57.519 go into survival mode because you're like, oh my God, 477 00:25:57.579 --> 00:25:59.099 this is, okay, the face. 478 00:25:59.140 --> 00:26:01.059 You're like, girl, little Tito. 479 00:26:01.500 --> 00:26:05.140 What behaviors did you, or you can now look back 480 00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:07.960 and recognize you started to lean into in these really 481 00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:11.109 heightened traumatic moments with your father? 482 00:26:12.529 --> 00:26:16.210 I actually just wrote a song about this called Silver 483 00:26:16.230 --> 00:26:25.519 Screen Baby and about sort of my desperation to escape 484 00:26:25.819 --> 00:26:32.710 to Hollywood. Um, I had this like very like bullish 485 00:26:32.750 --> 00:26:40.009 sort of headstrong belief that like my home was not 486 00:26:40.450 --> 00:26:41.990 ever going to feel like home in the way that 487 00:26:42.009 --> 00:26:43.690 it felt like to the other girls that I went 488 00:26:43.710 --> 00:26:47.380 to school with. Um, because I'm going to be honest, 489 00:26:47.410 --> 00:26:49.779 just like a slight delineation, but like my home was 490 00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:53.029 also magical. Like that's the weird thing about living with 491 00:26:53.089 --> 00:26:56.650 a parent who deals with, you know, um, struggles with 492 00:26:56.690 --> 00:27:00.329 their mental health, it's, some days are really beautiful. And 493 00:27:00.390 --> 00:27:04.630 some days, some days are weeks, some days are long 494 00:27:04.690 --> 00:27:06.670 stretches of time. And you're like, oh, and then you settle. 495 00:27:06.690 --> 00:27:09.789 And then it's like, you know, upended again. Um, so 496 00:27:09.829 --> 00:27:13.450 I don't ever want to make it seem like, you know, 497 00:27:13.990 --> 00:27:17.579 my childhood was, um, only one thing. It was also 498 00:27:17.900 --> 00:27:22.619 exceptionally beautiful and special and, My parents were great parents 499 00:27:22.700 --> 00:27:24.339 in a lot of ways. Like my mom has always 500 00:27:24.380 --> 00:27:27.559 been the perfect mom. Like I'm so big on saying that. 501 00:27:28.039 --> 00:27:32.440 She just got saddled with a very difficult like workload 502 00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:38.099 and situation, which wasn't really her design. But my dad 503 00:27:38.119 --> 00:27:43.170 also was exceptional. Like there's a reason that I have 504 00:27:43.910 --> 00:27:46.349 spoken so highly of him and written so many songs 505 00:27:46.410 --> 00:27:49.190 about him and why I care so much about mental 506 00:27:49.210 --> 00:27:54.900 health is because It is a– it's not in your character. 507 00:27:55.009 --> 00:27:59.230 It's an affliction. It's something that– there's a reason why 508 00:27:59.269 --> 00:28:01.509 we say people struggle with mental health. 509 00:28:01.529 --> 00:28:02.289 It's chemical, yeah. 510

00:28:02.309 --> 00:28:02.589 It's chemical. 511 00:28:02.630 --> 00:28:03.890 It's not a fucking choice. 512 00:28:03.930 --> 00:28:04.069 Yeah. 513 00:28:04.170 --> 00:28:07.670 And so, like, I, you know, I look at my 514 00:28:07.690 --> 00:28:11.359 dad as the parts of him that were so, so magical, right? Like, 515 00:28:11.380 --> 00:28:13.259 the parts of him that– sorry. 516 00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:14.740 Sorry. 517 00:28:15.740 --> 00:28:17.119 I fully came in today and I was like, I'm 518 00:28:17.220 --> 00:28:22.210 not going to put it away. Sorry. No, you're fine. 519 00:28:26.130 --> 00:28:28.049 So much of who I am is my mom, right? 520 00:28:29.069 --> 00:28:32.170 So much of who I am. But so much of 521 00:28:32.230 --> 00:28:36.420 who I am and who I grow into now, I 522 00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:45.039 look back and I retroactively realize was my dad. Sorry. 523 00:28:46.619 --> 00:28:49.539 It's like the parts of him that I never got 524 00:28:50.059 --> 00:28:52.900 to meet as I got older, I get to meet 525 00:28:53.509 --> 00:28:57.730 them as I become them, which has been like a 526 00:28:57.910 --> 00:29:02.329 really profound experience, you know, because I remember all these 527 00:29:02.410 --> 00:29:07.130 things about him. And as I get older, I see 528 00:29:07.150 --> 00:29:09.880 them coming out in my personality like on accident. And 529 00:29:09.910 --> 00:29:14.039 I'm like, oh my God, like it feels like getting 530 00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:18.029 a sort of a piece of closure. is kind of 531 00:29:18.069 --> 00:29:23.369 like following a roadmap that has been leading me towards 532 00:29:24.450 --> 00:29:28.329 really feeling like his daughter, you know, because I fucking 533 00:29:28.369 --> 00:29:31.089 love him. He's so special. And it's such a shame 534 00:29:31.829 --> 00:29:34.069 to never get to know your parent fully. 535 00:29:34.549 --> 00:29:38.289 I think what I think a lot of people are 536 00:29:38.329 --> 00:29:41.809 going to see here and also cry with you as 537 00:29:41.869 --> 00:29:44.450 I'm crying because I have someone so close to me 538 00:29:44.470 --> 00:29:50.720 that has a very similar experience to you with a 539 00:29:50.759 --> 00:29:54.559 father and losing a father to bipolar. And it's so complicated. 540 00:29:54.619 --> 00:29:56.680 And as we talk about it all the time and 541 00:29:57.509 --> 00:30:00.250 our personal moments and what I'm hearing from you, which 542 00:30:00.309 --> 00:30:02.730 is so helpful because it's like, oh, this is a 543 00:30:02.769 --> 00:30:05.069 relatable feeling where it's like the highs are so high 544 00:30:05.210 --> 00:30:09.190 and that doesn't mean that they're not highs. And with 545 00:30:09.230 --> 00:30:14.210 a parent, you need to hold on to those beautiful moments. 546 00:30:14.299 --> 00:30:16.319 Like we can sit here and of course it's like 547 00:30:16.359 --> 00:30:19.119 we're talking about the really hard moments in your childhood 548 00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:22.500 with this because we're not saying your father intentionally hurt 549 00:30:22.539 --> 00:30:25.359 you But as a human being sitting in front of me, 550 00:30:25.740 --> 00:30:28.069 we would be remiss to not acknowledge that so much- 551 00:30:28.089 --> 00:30:30.769 That there was hurt. Yeah, there was hurt, not intentional, 552 00:30:30.910 --> 00:30:33.450 but it did form then who you are as a 553 00:30:33.490 --> 00:30:36.450 human being or your personality or your behaviors or what 554 00:30:36.470 --> 00:30:39.529 then you went on to accept. And so it's like, 555 00:30:39.569 --> 00:30:42.750 we have to talk that through also to acknowledge how 556 00:30:42.849 --> 00:30:46.759 strong you are. But then, right? There's the moments where 557 00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:48.380 you now can look back at your father and be like, 558 00:30:48.500 --> 00:30:51.019 but then there was this creative side to him. And 559 00:30:51.059 --> 00:30:55.470 there was this like, brilliance to him and so bipolar 560 00:30:55.630 --> 00:31:00.619 is really fucking confusing to the people around people like 561 00:31:00.630 --> 00:31:04.579 that because you see two different sides to someone and 562 00:31:05.220 --> 00:31:07.220 one day you'll wake up and think about the good 563 00:31:07.240 --> 00:31:08.619 side and then the other day you think about the 564 00:31:08.660 --> 00:31:11.839 bad side and that's really confusing because most people you're 565 00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:14.549 like this is who this person is yeah and you 566 00:31:14.569 --> 00:31:16.769 can kind of be like in one sentence but with 567 00:31:16.829 --> 00:31:19.069 this you're like there was a lot. 568 00:31:18.869 --> 00:31:24.759 Going on I also will very, very earnestly say that 569 00:31:24.779 --> 00:31:30.640 the patterning that my brain found around like there's the 570 00:31:30.660 --> 00:31:32.750 person who does the thing and then the person who's 571 00:31:32.769 --> 00:31:37.150 there for cleanup, that really fucked me up in my 572 00:31:37.190 --> 00:31:37.730 dating life. 573 00:31:37.910 --> 00:31:42.329 I cannot imagine because you're learning at a young age 574 00:31:42.390 --> 00:31:44.599 because it's your blood and your father to put up 575 00:31:44.730 --> 00:31:50.130 with and you're innately seeking love from your parent who 576 00:31:50.190 --> 00:31:53.269 you're a half of. But then when you then are 577 00:31:53.549 --> 00:31:54.829 so used to something. 578 00:31:56.829 --> 00:32:00.009 More also like so used to, yes, but also like 579 00:32:01.029 --> 00:32:03.339 the thing that I could not let go of in 580 00:32:03.380 --> 00:32:06.259 my 20s, which is another thing that we are leaving behind. 581 00:32:06.279 --> 00:32:12.099 The list is long. One thing that I fucking couldn't 582 00:32:12.140 --> 00:32:15.660 let go of, I couldn't conceptualize was If my dad 583 00:32:15.940 --> 00:32:18.900 could do those things, but I know he

loved me, 584 00:32:21.180 --> 00:32:23.259 can I believe someone who can do those things to 585 00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:25.240 me in a romantic relationship who then tells me they 586 00:32:25.299 --> 00:32:28.160 love me? And they almost went hand in hand for 587 00:32:28.180 --> 00:32:34.759 me for a long time. And sometimes I look back 588 00:32:34.819 --> 00:32:37.920 and I blame myself for staying in those relationships. Sometimes 589 00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:40.049 I look back with great empathy and I say I 590 00:32:40.109 --> 00:32:43.390 couldn't have known better. Sometimes my empathy even extends as 591 00:32:43.410 --> 00:32:45.289 far enough to say that they couldn't have known better. 592 00:32:45.309 --> 00:32:47.609 But then I dial it back. And then I say, 593 00:32:47.650 --> 00:32:51.049 you definitely could have known better. Right. Yeah. I found 594 00:32:51.069 --> 00:32:53.250 myself in a lot of situations that accidentally mirrored. 595 00:32:54.589 --> 00:32:56.170 Your father and your relationship. 596 00:32:56.490 --> 00:32:56.890 Completely. 597 00:32:57.009 --> 00:33:00.430 Did you ever have a moment in a relationship where 598 00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:06.119 it got to those moments of the most heightened where 599 00:33:06.140 --> 00:33:08.839 it was like scary where you then look at yourself 600 00:33:08.859 --> 00:33:11.279 and you're like, wait, how did how am I putting 601 00:33:11.299 --> 00:33:12.299 myself in danger? 602 00:33:12.519 --> 00:33:14.589 Oh yeah. No, I'm also, I wrote a song about 603 00:33:14.609 --> 00:33:19.589 that also recently, which I won't share right now because 604 00:33:19.630 --> 00:33:21.109 it's one of my favorite songs I've ever written and 605 00:33:21.130 --> 00:33:25.279 I just want to like keep it for the album. But, 606 00:33:27.740 --> 00:33:30.579 That was actually one of the reasons that one of 607 00:33:30.660 --> 00:33:33.339 my relationships that I was in ended. It came to 608 00:33:33.400 --> 00:33:37.480 a very, very, not physical, not physical, but a very, very, very, 609 00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:43.779 very scary moment that I was like, I'm going to 610 00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:48.019 document this. I'm calling my mom right now. I'm calling 611 00:33:48.079 --> 00:33:51.519 all my friends. But it was something, it took me 612 00:33:51.539 --> 00:33:59.410 up until that to be like, okay, wait. this isn't love. 613 00:33:59.609 --> 00:34:01.190 And it's not- It's your threshold though, Dove. 614 00:34:01.250 --> 00:34:04.869 My threshold was high, girl. My threshold was crazy high. 615 00:34:05.390 --> 00:34:08.449 And I also, I also, it's such a weird thing 616 00:34:08.489 --> 00:34:09.829 to try to explain to people who have never been 617 00:34:09.849 --> 00:34:14.230 in this position. I loved that person. I was in love. 618 00:34:14.570 --> 00:34:17.230 I was, I was in love. And, and it's hard 619 00:34:17.250 --> 00:34:21.269 to conceptualize like people who are like, but

how can 620 00:34:21.289 --> 00:34:23.650 you love someone who does those things to you? And yes, 621 00:34:23.670 --> 00:34:25.710 I would say now from a healed and healthy perspective- 622 00:34:26.769 --> 00:34:29.170 I would agree. I would also find it inconceivable. 623 00:34:29.250 --> 00:34:30.789 But I was going to say, but I think what 624 00:34:30.809 --> 00:34:32.949 we also have to have empathy with ourselves and other 625 00:34:33.010 --> 00:34:34.710 humans when everyone's like, why did you stay and why. 626 00:34:34.650 --> 00:34:35.090 Did you do this? 627 00:34:35.829 --> 00:34:39.489 How would you know any better of what you deserve 628 00:34:39.590 --> 00:34:43.989 when within your own home there was a pattern and 629 00:34:44.050 --> 00:34:47.119 there was a procedure essentially that you all knew when 630 00:34:47.139 --> 00:34:48.980 this was happening, this is how you fall in line, 631 00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:51.260 and then he'll apologize, and then we go back to normal, 632 00:34:51.300 --> 00:34:52.820 and then we try to pretend it didn't happen, and 633 00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:54.780 then another moment happens, and then we get through it. 634 00:34:55.099 --> 00:34:57.280 And so it was like this cyclical situation that you 635 00:34:57.320 --> 00:34:59.639 were going through that like that was your life and 636 00:34:59.679 --> 00:35:01.940 you just survived and lived so that when you get 637 00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:04.380 into a romantic relationship, how would it be if someone 638 00:35:04.420 --> 00:35:06.989 had boundaries and treated you right and was respectful? You'd 639 00:35:07.010 --> 00:35:09.130 be like, when is the other shoe going to drop? 640 00:35:09.510 --> 00:35:13.190 Because you had never seen anything like that in your life. 641 00:35:13.269 --> 00:35:17.190 And so then it takes you actually learning and experiencing 642 00:35:17.230 --> 00:35:21.469 the world and talking to therapists and licensed people who 643 00:35:21.650 --> 00:35:23.780 actually are sitting there with you to be like, let 644 00:35:23.820 --> 00:35:26.860 me walk you through. This is not healthy. This is trauma. 645 00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:26.960 Yeah. 646 00:35:27.019 --> 00:35:29.820 Yeah. Well, and also like huge bouts of alone time. 647 00:35:29.940 --> 00:35:34.500 Like I, I, I had like a two year dating 648 00:35:34.780 --> 00:35:38.059 romantic sabbatical. I was like, or sabbatical. That's where we 649 00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:38.539 take time off. 650 00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:38.780 Yeah. 651 00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:39.039 Yeah. 652 00:35:39.079 --> 00:35:40.360 Hiatus. Yeah. Hiatus. 653 00:35:41.079 --> 00:35:45.820 Sorry. It's like not sabbatical. Um, I just disappeared off 654 00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:47.030 the face of the planet. Like I, there was a 655 00:35:47.050 --> 00:35:49.489 while where I was like, Whoa, I'm broken. Like I'm 656 00:35:49.510 --> 00:35:53.449 a broken, I don't want anyone. I, Because I was 657 00:35:53.489 --> 00:35:56.050 just so disturbed. Like I was so disturbed by the 658 00:35:56.070 --> 00:35:59.349 places I had like gotten myself to and what I had, 659 00:36:00.030 --> 00:36:02.090 who I had chosen to love and who I loved. 660 00:36:02.170 --> 00:36:06.659 Like that's the thing is that it's complicated, right? 661 00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:10.920 And when you're speaking about these romantic relationships and how 662 00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:12.860 you had said, you know, you have such empathy for 663 00:36:12.980 --> 00:36:17.960 understandably your mother who you watched in this relationship. I 664 00:36:18.039 --> 00:36:23.389 think about how hard it is to leave something that is. 665 00:36:23.789 --> 00:36:25.389 Especially when you have kids. Yes. 666 00:36:26.840 --> 00:36:29.119 And I know I had read in an article you 667 00:36:29.139 --> 00:36:32.699 had said somewhere that before your parents got divorced, things 668 00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:37.510 were getting very real and very adult at home. What 669 00:36:37.619 --> 00:36:40.250 was the breaking point for your mom to get your 670 00:36:40.309 --> 00:36:42.070 family out? 671 00:36:45.230 --> 00:36:51.929 That's a really good question. I think that I think 672 00:36:51.949 --> 00:36:54.750 that my sister went away to college and it was 673 00:36:54.849 --> 00:37:00.010 just me at home, which like left them with 50% 674 00:37:00.010 --> 00:37:06.170 less distraction, you know? I was really depressed. Like, you 675 00:37:06.190 --> 00:37:08.090 know how sometimes there are those kids that go through 676 00:37:08.510 --> 00:37:12.369 like puberty and they're like, you're like, oh God, that 677 00:37:12.409 --> 00:37:14.489 was me. I was like, I didn't want to be 678 00:37:14.510 --> 00:37:16.619 awake during the night. So I would like stay up 679 00:37:16.659 --> 00:37:18.360 all night. I was being homeschooled. I would like just 680 00:37:18.380 --> 00:37:21.409 watch movies and hearkening back to the Hollywood thing. I 681 00:37:21.429 --> 00:37:23.769 was like, I'm not supposed to be here. I'm supposed 682 00:37:23.789 --> 00:37:25.250 to be among people who are going to understand me. 683 00:37:25.349 --> 00:37:27.949 And like in my mind, my like 12 year old mind, 684 00:37:27.989 --> 00:37:31.190 I was like, that's Hollywood because these people clearly they 685 00:37:31.230 --> 00:37:33.840 have an understanding for emotion. And I felt so close 686 00:37:33.880 --> 00:37:35.619 to these people in these movies who are making this 687 00:37:35.699 --> 00:37:37.659 music and it all was being done in this one 688 00:37:38.739 --> 00:37:43.159 big amorphous town. They're all there. Like I was like, great, 689 00:37:43.179 --> 00:37:45.480 fucking get me there. Like I was like, that's where 690 00:37:45.500 --> 00:37:48.840 I'm supposed to be. Um, as a very childlike, you know, 691 00:37:48.880 --> 00:37:52.900 understanding of, of the industry. Um, and so I was 692

00:37:52.940 --> 00:37:55.579 doing this thing where I was not going to school 693 00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:58.880 and I was staying up all night to watch movies. 694 00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:03.280 And because I was terrified of the nighttime because I 695 00:38:03.320 --> 00:38:05.860 was just like traumatized. I had a hairpin trigger for 696 00:38:05.900 --> 00:38:08.039 any things that go bump in the night. And I, 697 00:38:08.059 --> 00:38:10.099 the house was in the woods and I was like, 698 00:38:10.119 --> 00:38:12.840 I don't know. I'd always been a really anxious kid. 699 00:38:12.860 --> 00:38:15.639 I think ever since Haley died, I was just like, ah, 700 00:38:16.690 --> 00:38:20.389 very easily shaken. And my parents were just kind of 701 00:38:20.429 --> 00:38:22.329 alone in the house and they ran a business together. 702 00:38:22.590 --> 00:38:31.510 And I don't know, there was clearly some form of 703 00:38:31.929 --> 00:38:34.010 adultery happening. Like where both of them were just kind 704 00:38:34.050 --> 00:38:38.809 of like, done, done, done, done, done. And so it 705 00:38:38.829 --> 00:38:40.329 was just time. Like, I don't know how they could 706 00:38:40.349 --> 00:38:41.110 have carried on, honestly. 707 00:38:41.130 --> 00:38:43.199 And did you, were you sitting in that house and 708 00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:47.349 feeling them both kind of doing- Their own things. 709 00:38:47.630 --> 00:38:51.389 Oh, yeah. No, yeah. They were just a terrible, terrible match. 710 00:38:51.750 --> 00:38:53.730 Just like a decade of them slowly burning out. 711 00:38:54.489 --> 00:38:59.670 So you eventually get your dream. You are sitting there. 712 00:38:59.730 --> 00:39:02.889 You're watching these movies. You're dreaming about going to this 713 00:39:02.969 --> 00:39:05.769 land where everyone is and everyone's getting to act and 714 00:39:05.789 --> 00:39:08.829 perform and do all these things. And you've watched this 715 00:39:08.889 --> 00:39:11.309 growing up for so long. And then your parents get 716 00:39:11.349 --> 00:39:14.610 divorced and your mom and you go to L.A. And– 717 00:39:15.809 --> 00:39:18.889 I remember reading that you were going for auditions and 718 00:39:18.929 --> 00:39:21.760 Disney said that you came off as dark and off-putting. 719 00:39:23.780 --> 00:39:24.960 That's still so funny. 720 00:39:24.980 --> 00:39:26.849 They're like, girl, you are too dark for Disney. 721 00:39:26.869 --> 00:39:28.449 They were like, please stop saying that. 722 00:39:28.550 --> 00:39:29.030 Smile. 723 00:39:29.050 --> 00:39:32.349 Yeah, no, they literally. asked my agents to stop saying that. Oh, 724 00:39:32.389 --> 00:39:34.769 my God. They were like, it's never going to be her. Like, 725 00:39:34.789 --> 00:39:40.510 give it up. But we came out, and I was 726 00:39:40.530 --> 00:39:43.820 getting sent out on all this Disney stuff. And I 727 00:39:43.860 --> 00:39:45.719 remember saying to my mom, like, I don't want to 728 00:39:45.739 --> 00:39:50.150 do Disney because I– I felt like it was going 729 00:39:50.170 --> 00:39:52.969 to be a lifelong commitment. I felt like I had 730 00:39:53.030 --> 00:39:55.199 grown up watching the girls try so hard to like 731 00:39:55.380 --> 00:39:57.420 break away from it and be respected. And I knew 732 00:39:57.500 --> 00:39:59.539 even when I was like 13 or 14, I was like, 733 00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:02.360 this is going to be hard. Like this is going 734 00:40:02.380 --> 00:40:04.820 to be something really hard. That sounds so ungrateful, but 735 00:40:04.860 --> 00:40:07.179 like this was something before I got the opportunity that 736 00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:09.920 I was like, I don't know. I don't know. Cause 737 00:40:09.980 --> 00:40:13.980 I really wanted to do movies and TV shows that 738 00:40:14.039 --> 00:40:17.170 felt like more adult, but the, For that age bracket, like, 739 00:40:17.409 --> 00:40:18.929 there were, like, you know, you play the daughter of 740 00:40:18.969 --> 00:40:19.869 so-and-so or. 741 00:40:19.869 --> 00:40:21.389 Like– But it also makes sense– and I get what 742 00:40:21.409 --> 00:40:24.030 you're saying. You're grateful, but you're also– this whole conversation, 743 00:40:24.050 --> 00:40:26.309 we've been talking about how you've always felt older than 744 00:40:26.429 --> 00:40:27.090 your age. 745 00:40:27.349 --> 00:40:28.449 That was the other thing. Right. 746 00:40:28.530 --> 00:40:33.489 So you're, like– Disney, like, I've been watching these– movies 747 00:40:33.610 --> 00:40:36.650 and I'm seeing myself in this older light and then 748 00:40:36.710 --> 00:40:40.889 to do Disney. And again, Disney was established at this point, right? 749 00:40:40.929 --> 00:40:45.940 Like remembering when Hannah Montana came out, like that was new. 750 00:40:46.019 --> 00:40:48.579 Everyone didn't know that this could become this whole format. 751 00:40:48.599 --> 00:40:48.739 Totally. 752 00:40:50.340 --> 00:40:53.380 Hilary Duff right when you came into it you had 753 00:40:53.460 --> 00:40:55.260 these people that you could look at and there was 754 00:40:55.300 --> 00:40:58.269 a blueprint essentially laid out of like now we're watching 755 00:40:58.309 --> 00:41:00.570 these people try to grow out of this persona and 756 00:41:00.630 --> 00:41:01.329 it's very difficult there was a. 757 00:41:01.289 --> 00:41:03.829 Whole stigma around it there was a whole like like 758 00:41:03.869 --> 00:41:07.099 people would write articles about like so-and-so gets a tattoo 759 00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:08.559 to be a bad girl. And I was like, I 760 00:41:08.579 --> 00:41:10.179 was like, I'm already, I already have a tattoo. Like 761 00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:12.760 I was like, I was like, fuck, fuck, fuck. 762 00:41:12.780 --> 00:41:15.699 Like I've been around the weed smoking. I have the tattoo. 763 00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:18.119 I was like, yes. I was like, there's no part 764 00:41:18.159 -->

00:41:20.420 of me that is like sheltered, you know? And I 765 00:41:20.480 --> 00:41:22.159 also was like, I didn't think I could be funny 766 00:41:22.179 --> 00:41:24.690 at the time. Like I, I perceived myself already as 767 00:41:24.710 --> 00:41:27.650 like too dark and too whatever for Disney. Everybody with 768 00:41:27.670 --> 00:41:29.789 my life had been insane. Like I was just not, 769 00:41:29.909 --> 00:41:31.269 I was not going to be the girl who came 770 00:41:31.309 --> 00:41:34.250 off like fresh faced off the, the, you know, the, uh, the, 771 00:41:34.289 --> 00:41:37.760 what is that? Like the, the Greyhound bus being like, 772 00:41:37.780 --> 00:41:39.550 here I am. Like it was not a charming story. 773 00:41:39.610 --> 00:41:40.269 I was like here. 774 00:41:40.170 --> 00:41:41.969 Because I was deeply disturbed. 775 00:41:42.010 --> 00:41:42.289 Yeah. 776 00:41:42.750 --> 00:41:44.949 I was already deeply disturbed. And so I was like, 777 00:41:45.190 --> 00:41:47.989 they're never going to pick me. Like fucking. Okay. 778 00:41:48.250 --> 00:41:51.219 They did. So Liv and Maddie, then you get the show. 779 00:41:51.389 --> 00:41:53.559 Yeah. They called me and they were like nine months 780 00:41:53.579 --> 00:41:56.420 after we shot the original pilot, they were like, hey, 781 00:41:56.480 --> 00:41:58.699 your show's getting picked up. I'll see you on Monday. Like, 782 00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:01.659 but by the way, you're playing twins. You're like, cool. No, 783 00:42:01.760 --> 00:42:04.000 I was like, I was on the 405 or something. 784 00:42:04.119 --> 00:42:07.409 And it was like, They called from like an anonymous number, 785 00:42:07.429 --> 00:42:09.469 which they always do. Like they call from this like. 786 00:42:09.670 --> 00:42:11.150 No caller ID. Oh my God. 787 00:42:11.210 --> 00:42:14.829 Like the Disney Pentagon. Literally. Yeah. And it was like 788 00:42:14.849 --> 00:42:16.320 my mom's cell phone at the time. And it was 789 00:42:16.340 --> 00:42:17.900 like no caller ID. And we were on the 405 790 00:42:17.900 --> 00:42:18.260 and we were like. 791 00:42:18.360 --> 00:42:19.420 Oh my God. 792 00:42:19.559 --> 00:42:21.699 You know, because we were like, we were like, we had, 793 00:42:22.099 --> 00:42:24.460 my mom was melting down gold to pay for our rent. 794 00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:26.820 Like based on her own personal jewelry because she was 795 00:42:26.860 --> 00:42:29.300 a jeweler. Not because she had loads of gold. Right. 796 00:42:30.550 --> 00:42:32.369 And so we were like, oh my God. We did it. 797 00:42:32.369 --> 00:42:34.849 It was like the call that changed our lives. 798 00:42:34.909 --> 00:42:35.170 Yeah. Yeah. 799 00:42:37.690 --> 00:42:39.269 And I took it. And it was just such a 800 00:42:39.349 --> 00:42:41.469 beautiful experience, like to hearken back to the thing where 801 00:42:41.489 --> 00:42:45.179 I sound like massively ungrateful. Disney was some of the 802 00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:50.000 most fun and joyful times of my life. Like I 803 00:42:50.019 --> 00:42:53.880 had a great fucking time on Disney Channel, which is 804 00:42:53.920 --> 00:42:56.440 why like you'll see me talking about it still. Because 805 00:42:56.480 --> 00:42:59.599 I'm not, I know what it was. I know that 806 00:42:59.619 --> 00:43:02.119 that's not who I am. I know that it was 807 00:43:02.139 --> 00:43:04.170 like a thing that I did when I was a 808 00:43:04.190 --> 00:43:05.469 kid and when I was a teenager. 809 00:43:05.489 --> 00:43:05.570 Yeah. 810 00:43:06.130 --> 00:43:07.690 And it's something that like I look back on and 811 00:43:07.750 --> 00:43:09.809 I appreciate it for what it is. Like we recently 812 00:43:09.849 --> 00:43:12.789 rewatched all the Descendants films and I was like, these 813 00:43:12.849 --> 00:43:17.380 fucking movies are so insane that like I can't believe 814 00:43:17.420 --> 00:43:20.480 they got away with it. Like CGI dragons and like, 815 00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:24.800 it's like one long acid trip for kids. You know 816 00:43:24.820 --> 00:43:26.750 what I mean? Like I was, I'm behind it. 817 00:43:26.750 --> 00:43:28.469 I love it. I think it's beautiful though that you're 818 00:43:28.590 --> 00:43:31.329 able to enjoy it because again, I think maybe because 819 00:43:31.929 --> 00:43:35.179 of I don't know why, like maybe like you said, 820 00:43:35.219 --> 00:43:38.139 like seeing people in the comments and still remembering it. 821 00:43:38.360 --> 00:43:41.000 I think it's okay that like it's like that was 822 00:43:41.059 --> 00:43:44.119 a version of you. And I think sometimes understandably we 823 00:43:44.199 --> 00:43:46.369 try to grow up quickly and we're like, I don't 824 00:43:46.389 --> 00:43:48.429 want to be my younger version of myself. But how 825 00:43:48.530 --> 00:43:51.469 beautiful that that was such a huge part in your life. 826 00:43:51.550 --> 00:43:53.369 And don't forget, like you just said, that you and 827 00:43:53.409 --> 00:43:55.429 your mom on the 405 and you needed this job 828 00:43:55.710 --> 00:43:57.050 and it changed your life. 829 00:43:57.070 --> 00:43:59.309 Yeah, oh my God. Disney really like changed my whole 830 00:43:59.349 --> 00:44:01.710 fucking life. And they supported me so much too. Like 831 00:44:01.730 --> 00:44:04.369 that was really the thing. I had great relationships in there. Like, 832 00:44:04.389 --> 00:44:08.070 you know, there was the thing that like is very expected, 833 00:44:08.110 --> 00:44:12.329 which is just like, I came into Disney, yes, with 834 00:44:12.389 --> 00:44:16.809 a tattoo at 14. And I was, you know, swearing 835 00:44:16.849 --> 00:44:19.219 as much as I swear now. And I was a 836 00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:21.460 full adult and I had all this trauma, like full adult, 837 00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:24.719 but like, you know, for that age, yes. And I 838 00:44:24.739 --> 00:44:27.980 had all this trauma. And basically they were

like, in 839 00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:30.329 like the friendliest way possible, they were like, okay, so 840 00:44:31.570 --> 00:44:35.800 we love you. You're not relatable. And I was like, perfect, right? 841 00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:39.139 That's fair. And I believe you. And so like, they 842 00:44:39.159 --> 00:44:41.199 did everything they could to make me more relatable. Like, 843 00:44:41.239 --> 00:44:43.539 God bless them. They were like, they were like, so 844 00:44:43.619 --> 00:44:44.820 we want to make like a music video and have 845 00:44:44.840 --> 00:44:47.340 your best friend in it. But like, you know, they 846 00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:49.639 wanted to make me more like, I guess, age appropriate. 847 00:44:50.449 --> 00:44:53.510 And so they did that. They were always very upfront 848 00:44:53.530 --> 00:44:56.250 about communicating about that. And I was very team player 849 00:44:56.309 --> 00:44:57.789 with like, when I would do interviews, you know, I 850 00:44:57.809 --> 00:45:00.510 would give the answer that you would give if you 851 00:45:00.550 --> 00:45:03.230 were talking to kids. Like that's really the thing that 852 00:45:03.250 --> 00:45:05.230 I think a lot of people get confused about with 853 00:45:05.250 --> 00:45:06.809 like who I was when I was on Disney and 854 00:45:06.849 --> 00:45:09.110 who I am now. They're like, there's a crazy contrast. 855 00:45:09.130 --> 00:45:12.539 And it's like, but no, because I walked into this 856 00:45:12.579 --> 00:45:15.780 contract being like, I'm on a children's network. Right. 857 00:45:15.820 --> 00:45:16.780 You knew the formula. 858 00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:20.199 If I went on and did an interview for Tiger 859 00:45:20.239 --> 00:45:22.539 Beat or Teen Vogue, and I was talking like how 860 00:45:22.579 --> 00:45:26.000 I do now where I'm like, okay, That would be 861 00:45:26.059 --> 00:45:29.000 stupid and also inappropriate. Like I'm 30 now. I can 862 00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:30.500 do it now. I could do it when I was 863 00:45:30.500 --> 00:45:33.869 25 and forward. It's like I am no longer on 864 00:45:34.489 --> 00:45:37.429 a children's network, even though they're syndicated forever. Of course. 865 00:45:37.690 --> 00:45:40.110 Of course. But it's like I think people think that 866 00:45:40.130 --> 00:45:42.010 it was like this crazy switch up when in fact 867 00:45:42.070 --> 00:45:44.599 I was just like a good employee. This is the job. 868 00:45:44.739 --> 00:45:47.360 This is the job. Yeah. It was never a lie. 869 00:45:47.400 --> 00:45:51.510 I'm just like not going to swear or be naked or, like, 870 00:45:51.530 --> 00:45:52.969 I remember the first time I posted a picture in 871 00:45:52.989 --> 00:45:55.730 a bikini and, like, the internet lost their minds and 872 00:45:55.750 --> 00:45:57.489 I was like, okay, not yet. 873 00:45:57.590 --> 00:45:58.650 Yeah, they're like, never mind. 874 00:45:58.690 --> 00:45:59.590 We're not there yet. 875 00:45:59.610 --> 00:46:00.429 See you in four years. 876 00:46:00.489 --> 00:46:03.389 Yeah, really. We'll try again next year. Really, which is why, like, 877 00:46:03.590 --> 00:46:05.690 it's funny because I still sometimes get asked about, like, 878 00:46:06.670 --> 00:46:08.679 how did you break out of your Disney role or 879 00:46:08.719 --> 00:46:10.340 there she goes trying to break out of her Disney 880 00:46:10.360 --> 00:46:14.800 role and I'm like, I literally, I actually, I think 881 00:46:14.860 --> 00:46:19.570 I try super, I wouldn't say super hard, but, like, I, 882 00:46:20.440 --> 00:46:22.719 I have no interest in bursting any sort of Disney 883 00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:25.480 bubble because I truly believe like that's over there and 884 00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:28.719 those shows and movies live on forever. That's not me. 885 00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:32.190 And I'm over here doing this and they don't really 886 00:46:32.250 --> 00:46:34.409 cross for me. And so I don't have any like 887 00:46:34.690 --> 00:46:38.130 desire to burst any balloons or illusions. I also think 888 00:46:38.170 --> 00:46:40.389 like there, I see so much, like someone will bring 889 00:46:40.449 --> 00:46:41.889 up like a song that I've released and they'll be like, 890 00:46:42.550 --> 00:46:46.329 that's Dove Cameron. And I'm like, great. So this, these 891 00:46:46.389 --> 00:46:48.230 people are over here knowing this and these people are 892 00:46:48.250 --> 00:46:49.889 over here knowing this. And That's okay. 893 00:46:49.909 --> 00:46:52.429 You've grown and you've evolved and you've changed. 894 00:46:52.510 --> 00:46:55.329 You have the version of me that you want. Absolutely. 895 00:46:55.349 --> 00:46:55.909 That's for you. 896 00:47:14.420 --> 00:47:15.280 When you were. 897 00:47:16.789 --> 00:47:20.170 On Disney, obviously moving to Los Angeles, kind of also 898 00:47:20.210 --> 00:47:23.389 circling back to the conversation of you move away from home. 899 00:47:23.469 --> 00:47:25.750 Did you have a relationship with your father when you 900 00:47:25.809 --> 00:47:27.929 moved to LA and got this role? 901 00:47:29.550 --> 00:47:33.269 That is a very good question and a very complicated answer. 902 00:47:35.650 --> 00:47:38.739 My dad and I, so my parents had split, but 903 00:47:38.840 --> 00:47:42.880 not for very long before we moved to LA. And we, 904 00:47:44.059 --> 00:47:46.380 my mom lived in like the tiniest apartment on Bainbridge. 905 00:47:47.079 --> 00:47:52.480 And my dad still lived in our family home. And 906 00:47:52.500 --> 00:47:54.480 I wanted to go live with my mom in the 907 00:47:54.519 --> 00:47:56.579 new apartment because it was like really close to the 908 00:47:56.619 --> 00:47:58.860 ferry boat. And if I'm being honest, I could sneak 909 00:47:58.880 --> 00:48:00.480 out of the house and go see my friends. Like 910 00:48:00.519 --> 00:48:03.889 I was like sliding screen door. It was in like 911 00:48:03.929 --> 00:48:09.610 our

little like town area, you know? So I was 912 00:48:09.630 --> 00:48:13.349 staying there a lot. And I think probably retroactively, like 913 00:48:13.369 --> 00:48:15.150 my dad felt like I was taking my mom's side. 914 00:48:15.659 --> 00:48:17.300 But then my sister kind of came home from college 915 00:48:17.320 --> 00:48:19.360 because she was like, I don't love this college. I 916 00:48:19.519 --> 00:48:24.860 want to be home. And there was a day where 917 00:48:26.469 --> 00:48:30.809 I was in my room at the family home asleep. 918 00:48:31.530 --> 00:48:33.530 And I was 13, 12, 13, like right before I 919 00:48:34.369 --> 00:48:41.000 moved to L.A., And my dad wanted me and my 920 00:48:41.039 --> 00:48:43.579 sister to like come eat breakfast in bed and listen 921 00:48:43.599 --> 00:48:45.300 to the radio or watch a movie or something, which 922 00:48:45.340 --> 00:48:47.300 like we were a very cuddly household. Like it was 923 00:48:48.219 --> 00:48:49.969 very like come down in your PJs and be half 924 00:48:49.989 --> 00:48:53.070 asleep and like I made eggs kind of thing. And 925 00:48:53.110 --> 00:48:58.510 he was like, Chloe, come down. And I was like, no, 926 00:48:58.550 --> 00:49:00.769 I'm sleeping, you know, whatever 12-year-old answer you give. And 927 00:49:00.789 --> 00:49:03.039 he was like, you can be sleepy. Just like come 928 00:49:03.059 --> 00:49:05.039 down and be sleepy down here because you're never here. 929 00:49:05.079 --> 00:49:07.090 So like come be with us. And I was like, okay. 930 00:49:07.230 --> 00:49:10.090 And I came downstairs and I got in the huge 931 00:49:10.130 --> 00:49:12.500 bed and I went to sleep and I got woken 932 00:49:12.539 --> 00:49:13.920 up because he had thrown me out. 933 00:49:13.860 --> 00:49:18.170 Of the bed. And he was. 934 00:49:20.030 --> 00:49:25.139 Was starting on some monologue about like, you're so ungrateful. 935 00:49:25.500 --> 00:49:29.340 You don't even want to be here. You are trying 936 00:49:29.380 --> 00:49:32.199 everything you can to get away from me. Like get out, 937 00:49:32.260 --> 00:49:38.320 get out of the house. And I think That was 938 00:49:38.360 --> 00:49:42.789 a really important moment for me because I had finally 939 00:49:42.829 --> 00:49:47.230 had it confirmed for me that I was not the 940 00:49:47.269 --> 00:49:51.210 thing that was making my dad upset. Because when I 941 00:49:51.250 --> 00:49:54.980 was younger, I really, really blamed myself for any time 942 00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:56.639 my dad would get upset. It was my fault. That's 943 00:49:56.659 --> 00:49:59.940 what you naturally think as a kid. And in this situation, 944 00:49:59.960 --> 00:50:05.489 I was asleep, right? I don't think I've ever told 945 00:50:05.510 --> 00:50:08.250 this story, actually. I don't know. I can't remember. But I, 946 00:50:09.110 --> 00:50:11.309 it sounds like nothing, but for me it was a 947 00:50:11.389 --> 00:50:14.969 really big deal because it,

I was woken up literally 948 00:50:15.010 --> 00:50:18.590 by like hitting the floor and hearing all these things. 949 00:50:18.650 --> 00:50:22.010 And so my brain was able to like through adrenaline process, 950 00:50:22.050 --> 00:50:25.820 like I couldn't have done anything to cause this because 951 00:50:25.960 --> 00:50:28.179 I was asleep. He told me I could come down 952 00:50:28.219 --> 00:50:31.260 and be asleep. This is all happening in his brain. 953 00:50:32.420 --> 00:50:36.449 And so I Rather than leaving, I went upstairs to 954 00:50:36.489 --> 00:50:38.969 my room. I packed a little stupid bag of like 955 00:50:39.050 --> 00:50:41.750 any suitcase that I had. And I was like, whatever 956 00:50:41.750 --> 00:50:43.530 12 year old language I had that was the equivalent 957 00:50:43.550 --> 00:50:47.389 of like, actually fuck you. And I went downstairs and 958 00:50:47.409 --> 00:50:50.989 I called my mom on my like $ 20 flip phone 959 00:50:51.010 --> 00:50:52.940 that I had because I went to theater camp and 960 00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:54.960 I had to like be, I had to call them. 961 00:50:55.579 --> 00:50:57.940 I didn't have, you know, but I called her and 962 00:50:57.960 --> 00:50:59.579 I was out sitting on my suitcase and my dad 963 00:51:00.139 --> 00:51:03.079 came out and was like, wait, no, sorry, sorry. And 964 00:51:03.099 --> 00:51:07.349 I was like, no, no. Absolutely not. I'm cool on this. 965 00:51:07.409 --> 00:51:09.449 I'm good on this. I'm not going to be talked 966 00:51:09.469 --> 00:51:13.090 to like that. I think I remember saying something to 967 00:51:13.130 --> 00:51:18.280 him that I wish I didn't say, but was like, 968 00:51:18.519 --> 00:51:22.760 we're blood, we're family, but I didn't choose to love 969 00:51:22.800 --> 00:51:27.639 you and I choose to separate from you because this 970 00:51:27.699 --> 00:51:29.800 is not healthy for me. You don't do it to mom. 971 00:51:29.880 --> 00:51:33.230 You don't do it to Claire. And clearly I'm not 972 00:51:33.269 --> 00:51:34.889 doing anything to cause it. So like, I'm not going 973 00:51:34.909 --> 00:51:39.369 to be your outlet. And so I went to go 974 00:51:39.389 --> 00:51:41.710 live with my mom. And then when we finally, I 975 00:51:41.829 --> 00:51:45.170 finally convinced her to move to LA, like the crazy, 976 00:51:46.210 --> 00:51:50.090 you know, 12, 13 that I was, I was like, 977 00:51:50.110 --> 00:51:51.909 you're not going to start over again. Like you just 978 00:51:51.929 --> 00:51:54.550 got divorced. Like, you know, there's so many more job 979 00:51:54.570 --> 00:51:56.130 opportunities and I love making shit up. 980 00:51:56.250 --> 00:51:56.570 Right. 981 00:51:56.590 --> 00:52:01.309 I was like, please. Um, You know, we said goodbye. 982 00:52:01.329 --> 00:52:02.750 We were like, we're just going to do this for 983 00:52:02.789 --> 00:52:05.090 six months and then we're going to come back. Like 984 00:52:05.849 --> 00:52:08.329 my

dad was super concerned about, he was like, I'm 985 00:52:08.349 --> 00:52:09.969 really scared Hollywood's going to chew you up and spit 986 00:52:10.010 --> 00:52:12.469 you out. Like whatever idiom he used. And I was like, 987 00:52:12.510 --> 00:52:17.530 no dad, I'm going to be fine. And then I 988 00:52:17.590 --> 00:52:21.469 started booking things. And my dad came out to LA 989 00:52:21.489 --> 00:52:25.170 to visit because he had some like a trade show 990 00:52:25.210 --> 00:52:27.699 to do because they were wholesalers. And so he brought 991 00:52:27.739 --> 00:52:30.300 like all of his stuff out. And he stayed on 992 00:52:30.340 --> 00:52:34.780 our floor because again, not really making any money. And 993 00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:38.820 he stayed on like a blow up mattress. And I remember, 994 00:52:39.159 --> 00:52:41.139 I think I have spoken about this, but I came 995 00:52:41.280 --> 00:52:45.570 out to be like, like snuggle him and say goodnight. 996 00:52:47.869 --> 00:52:50.409 And he like rolled over and turned his back and 997 00:52:50.429 --> 00:52:53.730 was like, goodnight, Chloe. Like, I think you should go 998 00:52:53.769 --> 00:52:58.289 to bed. And I was like, something bad's going on there. 999 00:52:58.349 --> 00:53:00.719 But like, I genuinely, I thought it was my fault. 1000 00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:03.110 Like I genuinely just thought I had upset him by 1001 00:53:03.139 --> 00:53:05.590 moving to LA. Like I didn't know what was happening 1002 00:53:05.969 --> 00:53:11.150 or that he was like purposefully distancing himself in that way. 1003 00:53:13.289 --> 00:53:16.349 So I went to bed and I tried my very 1004 00:53:16.389 --> 00:53:20.559 best to like spend extra time with him and like 1005 00:53:20.800 --> 00:53:23.300 lots of hugs, lots of kisses, lots of like, you okay? 1006 00:53:23.380 --> 00:53:29.389 Like kind of stuff. And then he went back to, Washington. 1007 00:53:29.409 --> 00:53:32.550 And it couldn't have been that many months after that, 1008 00:53:32.610 --> 00:53:36.190 that we got the call that he had, yeah, taken 1009 00:53:36.230 --> 00:53:41.090 his life. Yeah. So it was a bit of a, 1010 00:53:41.389 --> 00:53:46.360 like a blurry, weird time to say the least. 1011 00:53:47.679 --> 00:53:52.360 I'm so sorry because even hearing from the bed incident 1012 00:53:52.960 --> 00:53:56.099 to then you trying to connect with your father, like 1013 00:53:56.119 --> 00:53:59.590 there was so much Clearly between the two of you, 1014 00:53:59.659 --> 00:54:01.579 how you're describing it never really happened to your mom 1015 00:54:01.619 --> 00:54:05.579 and your sister where you really were putting out bids 1016 00:54:05.619 --> 00:54:06.719 for connection with him. 1017 00:54:06.739 --> 00:54:06.820 Yeah. 1018 00:54:07.539 --> 00:54:09.980 And in moments he would take it, in moments he 1019 00:54:10.019 --> 00:54:12.880 wasn't capable, right, of taking it because of where he 1020 00:54:12.920 --> 00:54:13.719 was at mentally. 1021 00:54:13.739 --> 00:54:14.550 Yeah. 1022 00:54:15.230 --> 00:54:17.389 You were always in the same place mentally. 1023 00:54:17.409 --> 00:54:17.809 Yeah. 1024 00:54:18.210 --> 00:54:21.269 So you were always waiting and it kind of was 1025 00:54:21.329 --> 00:54:23.690 always on his timeline and it was... That's true. 1026 00:54:23.909 --> 00:54:25.369 Right? Yeah, I've never thought about it like that. 1027 00:54:25.409 --> 00:54:29.260 Like you were there always with... waiting for your dad. 1028 00:54:29.559 --> 00:54:31.449 And sometimes he would show up. Oh my God, I'm 1029 00:54:31.469 --> 00:54:34.309 going to cry now. And sometimes he wouldn't. And so 1030 00:54:34.329 --> 00:54:36.550 to have that last moment with him where you really 1031 00:54:36.610 --> 00:54:41.130 tried and then to get that call, I, I can't 1032 00:54:41.190 --> 00:54:43.630 even imagine who, who did you get the call or 1033 00:54:43.670 --> 00:54:45.550 did you mom? Like, how did you handle that? 1034 00:54:46.429 --> 00:54:49.510 Um, thank you for that, by the way, because I 1035 00:54:49.590 --> 00:54:51.880 actually very rarely have people be able to tell me 1036 00:54:51.940 --> 00:54:54.500 something new that I haven't thought about. So that's really like, 1037 00:54:54.519 --> 00:54:57.590 it really helps me put it into perspective. Thank you. Um, 1038 00:54:59.079 --> 00:55:01.239 Cause that's so the feeling, right? And it's like, it's 1039 00:55:01.300 --> 00:55:04.159 actually really hard to articulate that. So thank you. 1040 00:55:05.420 --> 00:55:06.280 You were the constant. 1041 00:55:06.300 --> 00:55:06.380 Yeah. 1042 00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:09.260 Yeah. Which is exhausting. 1043 00:55:10.070 --> 00:55:10.489 Yeah. 1044 00:55:10.530 --> 00:55:12.630 And I think like you, you know, that's something that 1045 00:55:12.670 --> 00:55:15.360 I really like, I'm really happy that I grew out of. 1046 00:55:17.150 --> 00:55:19.269 But it still shows up for me thematically. So like 1047 00:55:19.329 --> 00:55:23.019 you kind of synthesizing that for me so perfectly is 1048 00:55:23.039 --> 00:55:24.699 going to help me be able to tackle that is 1049 00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:26.840 like not always feeling like it's my job to be 1050 00:55:26.860 --> 00:55:27.460 the constant. 1051 00:55:27.480 --> 00:55:27.559 Yeah. 1052 00:55:28.500 --> 00:55:35.679 Um, yeah. It's a good one. Like, the constant. The constant. 2026. 1053 00:55:35.679 --> 00:55:40.969 Stop being the constant. Leaving it behind. Be inconsistent. Yes. No. 1054 00:55:41.070 --> 00:55:42.030 Give them nothing. 1055 00:55:42.230 --> 00:55:44.329 Yeah, exactly. You're like, I don't even know how to 1056 00:55:44.349 --> 00:55:45.550 do that. Yeah, you be the fucking constant. Yeah, I 1057 00:55:45.570 --> 00:55:48.349 don't know how to do that. Um, no, but... Shit. 1058 00:55:48.369 --> 00:55:50.010 Basic shit. Yeah, dude. Yeah, shit. 1059 00:55:50.050 -->

00:55:51.010 Bring it back. Shit. 1060 00:55:51.449 --> 00:55:54.469 Um, we found out in a really weird kind of 1061 00:55:54.510 --> 00:55:55.849 layered way because, um. 1062 00:55:58.019 --> 00:56:01.320 Again, tight-knit community. There was a woman who was like 1063 00:56:01.360 --> 00:56:04.099 a kind of a, like a linchpin, like a sort 1064 00:56:04.119 --> 00:56:08.900 of a connection between my mom and my dad who 1065 00:56:08.940 --> 00:56:14.320 knew the whole family. And she had messaged me on Facebook. 1066 00:56:14.480 --> 00:56:17.699 Like that's how long ago this was. And she was like, 1067 00:56:18.579 --> 00:56:22.320 she'd never messaged me before, right? And she goes, hey, 1068 00:56:22.340 --> 00:56:30.530 is your mom around? And I was like, stomach Sink 1069 00:56:31.030 --> 00:56:34.230 and I just knew I can't tell you why I 1070 00:56:34.929 --> 00:56:40.630 knew But it was not a normal Interaction she had 1071 00:56:40.690 --> 00:56:42.690 no reason to be talking to me. I was however 1072 00:56:42.769 --> 00:56:51.050 I was 15, you know at this point and When 1073 00:56:51.210 --> 00:56:53.489 I responded like no, but she's gonna be home soon 1074 00:56:53.530 --> 00:56:55.539 and she said oh okay. And then it was like 1075 00:56:55.579 --> 00:56:58.139 typing went away, typing went away. And she was like, 1076 00:56:59.460 --> 00:57:02.699 please tell her to reach out to her brother or 1077 00:57:02.739 --> 00:57:06.099 something like that. Like, please tell her to, it wasn't 1078 00:57:06.139 --> 00:57:08.360 called her that person. It was like someone in the family. 1079 00:57:09.219 --> 00:57:11.920 And my childhood best friend at the time, my other 1080 00:57:11.940 --> 00:57:14.079 childhood best friend, Carla was living with me and we 1081 00:57:14.099 --> 00:57:17.969 were like watching cartoons. And I was like, oh my God, 1082 00:57:17.980 --> 00:57:19.820 I'm going to remember this moment forever is the moment 1083 00:57:19.860 --> 00:57:22.760 that my dad died and we were in my bed 1084 00:57:23.369 --> 00:57:30.389 laughing watching cartoons. Um, and my mom came home and 1085 00:57:30.570 --> 00:57:35.050 she talked to her brother, um, and she put him 1086 00:57:35.110 --> 00:57:42.980 on speaker. Um, and he was really breathless and like, 1087 00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:46.360 sounded like, you know, he was running, but I'm sure 1088 00:57:46.420 --> 00:57:48.360 he was just like having a panic attack. And he 1089 00:57:48.400 --> 00:57:53.590 was like, I just went to the house. I can't 1090 00:57:53.610 --> 00:57:55.710 even remember what he said before he said the last bit, 1091 00:57:55.789 --> 00:58:08.079 but Phil is no longer with us. And I had 1092 00:58:08.099 --> 00:58:11.079 a panic attack. Like, I don't know. Like, I had 1093 00:58:11.099 --> 00:58:15.030 a panic attack because I, it's the most out of 1094 00:58:15.090 --> 00:58:19.750 control feeling you can have is like the phone call. Um, 1095 00:58:20.989 --> 00:58:23.610 and actually all three of my big losses have come 1096 00:58:24.889 --> 00:58:27.860 via phone call, you know, like, which I guess is 1097 00:58:27.900 --> 00:58:29.880 pretty standard. Cause like, what's, you're going to have it 1098 00:58:29.900 --> 00:58:31.760 happen in front of you. It's a different thing. Um, 1099 00:58:32.519 --> 00:58:36.940 but I have like, uh, yeah, major phone anxiety, I 1100 00:58:36.980 --> 00:58:39.719 think because of stuff like this, um, not to like 1101 00:58:40.760 --> 00:58:44.320 get off topic, but I, it's such a alien thing 1102 00:58:44.699 --> 00:58:50.239 to learn about something so like There's a before this 1103 00:58:50.380 --> 00:58:53.119 and then there's an after this over the phone. And, like, 1104 00:58:53.260 --> 00:58:55.050 what the fuck is he going to tell us? Like, 1105 00:58:55.650 --> 00:58:57.849 how is he going to phrase that in a way that, like, 1106 00:58:58.710 --> 00:59:00.550 he can get through? And then my mom having to, like, 1107 00:59:00.570 --> 00:59:02.710 look to me. And then my best friend who's there 1108 00:59:02.769 --> 00:59:05.070 living with us looking to me. And I'm looking at them. And, like, 1109 00:59:06.469 --> 00:59:08.949 I think I ran out of the room. I think I, 1110 00:59:08.969 --> 00:59:12.860 like I couldn't breathe like the brain just breaks like 1111 00:59:12.880 --> 00:59:14.480 that's really the thing they don't tell you about trauma 1112 00:59:14.539 --> 00:59:21.559 and actually like I think that's part of like people 1113 00:59:21.579 --> 00:59:23.559 when they watch movies I think they get so accustomed 1114 00:59:23.579 --> 00:59:25.159 to like oh when someone dies you're like oh my 1115 00:59:25.199 --> 00:59:27.820 god they pass you go into this like animal mode 1116 00:59:27.980 --> 00:59:32.800 like you you are fight, flight, or freeze, you feel 1117 00:59:32.820 --> 00:59:35.260 like you're going to vomit your soul. I don't know 1118 00:59:35.320 --> 00:59:44.690 how else to describe it. It's like this horrible, inexpressible, fiery, painful, 1119 00:59:44.969 --> 00:59:48.329 knife-like thing. And all you're trying to do is purge it, 1120 00:59:48.369 --> 00:59:50.449 purge it, purge it. And it's impossible to purge. 1121 00:59:54.650 --> 00:59:57.329 I think that feeling is, again, something a lot of 1122 00:59:57.369 --> 01:00:00.079 people are going to relate to because I think like 1123 01:00:01.179 --> 01:00:06.030 yes death is inevitable but you've experienced such sudden and 1124 01:00:06.170 --> 01:00:10.500 unexpected loss that I'm not saying one or the other 1125 01:00:10.539 --> 01:00:14.139 is easier. It's just when something happens so unexpected, like 1126 01:00:14.280 --> 01:00:18.420 there is the shock and grief that are warped and 1127 01:00:18.539 --> 01:00:21.860 wrapped together and not having time to say goodbye. 1128 01:00:22.199 --> 01:00:23.610 And my God, the worst. 1129 01:00:23.929 -->

01:00:28.610 Oh, like you're, you're riddled with like so many emotions 1130 01:00:28.650 --> 01:00:30.530 that you don't even know which one to tap into. 1131 01:00:30.550 --> 01:00:33.429 So then you're just like, you just, you're just there. 1132 01:00:33.670 --> 01:00:36.139 You're just there and you're existing and it's a horrible feeling. 1133 01:00:36.659 --> 01:00:42.760 In the days and weeks after you got this news, 1134 01:00:42.840 --> 01:00:44.780 what do you think for you was the hardest thing 1135 01:00:44.800 --> 01:00:45.800 to wrap your head around? 1136 01:00:50.179 --> 01:00:57.230 Honestly, the way it happened. Because he took his own life. 1137 01:00:57.510 --> 01:01:03.250 And I... I wanted, like, I kept imagining because no 1138 01:01:03.289 --> 01:01:04.670 one would tell me how he did it. Like, I 1139 01:01:04.690 --> 01:01:07.289 know that's really morbid, but I think I wanted to know, 1140 01:01:07.349 --> 01:01:11.050 I needed to know. And then it was worse when 1141 01:01:11.090 --> 01:01:13.849 I knew and they were right. But like, I wouldn't, 1142 01:01:13.949 --> 01:01:16.750 I would have, I was torturing myself, like trying to imagine. 1143 01:01:16.909 --> 01:01:22.039 And like, I think honestly, and I'm going to honestly 1144 01:01:22.159 --> 01:01:24.940 try to stop crying because it's like, it's a lot. 1145 01:01:25.579 --> 01:01:29.420 But I think honestly, like the thing that still plagues me, 1146 01:01:29.639 --> 01:01:32.820 like the thing that I'm still like, Because I can mostly, 1147 01:01:32.880 --> 01:01:36.420 for the most part, talk about my life with a 1148 01:01:36.500 --> 01:01:38.579 sort of a distance at this point. Like I can 1149 01:01:38.599 --> 01:01:39.960 be like, this is what happened. This is how old 1150 01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:41.820 I was. This is how I processed it. This is 1151 01:01:41.860 --> 01:01:43.159 the good things that came out of it. This is 1152 01:01:43.199 --> 01:01:45.010 how it evolved me in this way. This is what 1153 01:01:45.030 --> 01:01:46.610 I can be grateful for or whatever. Like I have 1154 01:01:46.630 --> 01:01:49.730 enough distance. And also the body and the brain just 1155 01:01:49.750 --> 01:01:51.769 shut down. Like I don't know if anybody who's listening 1156 01:01:51.789 --> 01:01:54.849 to this can attest or relate to the fact that 1157 01:01:54.889 --> 01:01:59.050 like the body does not want to process everything at once. 1158 01:01:59.280 --> 01:02:02.860 And so... sometimes like your emotions, the valves just don't 1159 01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:04.480 feel like they're on. So like, I can talk about this, 1160 01:02:04.500 --> 01:02:09.000 like it happened to someone else. But sometimes the thing 1161 01:02:09.019 --> 01:02:12.239 that like, like I really wake up in the middle 1162 01:02:12.260 --> 01:02:14.659 of the night, like a, like catch my breath kind 1163 01:02:14.699 --> 01:02:19.559 of thing is, is just imagining like his final moments 1164 01:02:19.639 --> 01:02:25.179 alone where he was like, do I do it or not? 1165 01:02:25.380 --> 01:02:31.110 You know? And like the, he didn't even know, you know, 1166 01:02:31.210 --> 01:02:34.090 like what's that thought process like, or like, you know, 1167 01:02:34.159 --> 01:02:39.079 did he think like if someone had called if, you know, 1168 01:02:39.559 --> 01:02:43.760 it's that kind of thing where you're just like, could it, 1169 01:02:43.880 --> 01:02:46.800 could it have been different? And, and what did that 1170 01:02:46.880 --> 01:02:50.500 feel like for him? And, and did he know how 1171 01:02:50.559 --> 01:02:53.300 loved he was? Did he feel loved? Was he, was 1172 01:02:53.320 --> 01:02:59.449 he mentally there? Like, dude, it's fucking, it's fucked, dude. It's, 1173 01:03:00.239 --> 01:03:03.940 it's really fucked and I joke about my trauma because 1174 01:03:03.980 --> 01:03:06.000 it's like, what else are you gonna do? But like, 1175 01:03:07.199 --> 01:03:10.639 oh god, it's really the thing that like, it's really 1176 01:03:10.679 --> 01:03:17.159 the thing that it really brings you back to earth 1177 01:03:17.260 --> 01:03:19.619 and to what matters and like, it puts everything into 1178 01:03:19.659 --> 01:03:25.150 perspective because I am so marked by death and I'm 1179 01:03:25.329 --> 01:03:29.179 so marked by loss and there's a big part of 1180 01:03:29.219 --> 01:03:32.780 that that I really appreciate because I feel closer to 1181 01:03:32.800 --> 01:03:35.440 the people that I love and I love differently and 1182 01:03:36.239 --> 01:03:40.119 I live my life differently and I'm not so scared 1183 01:03:40.139 --> 01:03:42.210 about things that I might be scared about had I 1184 01:03:42.269 --> 01:03:48.650 not had the comparison of the Mount Everest of loss. 1185 01:03:49.809 --> 01:03:52.889 There's beautiful things that come out of everything. Does that 1186 01:03:52.929 --> 01:03:55.429 mean that I wouldn't change them or take them all back? Like, no, 1187 01:03:55.550 --> 01:03:58.750 I would much rather have these things had not happened, 1188 01:03:58.809 --> 01:04:06.260 like have had these things not happen. But I do 1189 01:04:06.320 --> 01:04:10.400 think that like, you know, part of the things that 1190 01:04:10.420 --> 01:04:13.320 I really love about myself and my life now are 1191 01:04:13.380 --> 01:04:16.420 marked by just the sort of deepening that happens with grief. 1192 01:04:17.039 --> 01:04:22.139 And like the level of fascination and love and appreciation 1193 01:04:22.869 --> 01:04:25.280 bonding that I have with humans in general. I think 1194 01:04:25.320 --> 01:04:30.019 it's given me a kind of a comfortability with strangers 1195 01:04:30.059 --> 01:04:34.559 and with people that I truly don't know or have 1196 01:04:34.599 --> 01:04:38.670 no context of. I think that there's a certain veil 1197 01:04:39.730 --> 01:04:48.590 that drops when you realize how deeply humans can feel

pain. 1198 01:04:48.610 --> 01:04:52.280 To know that there is someone that you look at 1199 01:04:52.380 --> 01:04:56.269 like a hero or a complex character and someone that 1200 01:04:56.289 --> 01:04:59.489 you love and you worship. The fact that they can 1201 01:04:59.530 --> 01:05:02.610 be so sad and so lonely and so empty that 1202 01:05:02.630 --> 01:05:07.289 they make the, you know, the ultimate decision is something 1203 01:05:07.329 --> 01:05:11.570 that it just, everybody's so fragile. And I really walk 1204 01:05:11.610 --> 01:05:15.139 around the world feeling that way, right? I agree. 1205 01:05:15.179 --> 01:05:18.639 And I also think that's why, like, even speaking to 1206 01:05:18.679 --> 01:05:23.460 you right now, it's like, why I'm so appreciative of 1207 01:05:24.219 --> 01:05:26.960 my job is like, I get to sit with people 1208 01:05:27.019 --> 01:05:30.960 like you who I only have had at one point, 1209 01:05:30.980 --> 01:05:34.610 the privilege of watching on TV or listening to your 1210 01:05:34.639 --> 01:05:38.090 music and you can get so much from it. And, 1211 01:05:38.269 --> 01:05:39.690 and we're going to get to all of it in 1212 01:05:39.730 --> 01:05:41.349 the new show and all of it. But what I 1213 01:05:41.409 --> 01:05:46.090 think makes you then feel more connected to those people, 1214 01:05:46.150 --> 01:05:49.090 especially with the internet now is like when people do 1215 01:05:49.349 --> 01:05:53.619 have the strength to share these kind of things this 1216 01:05:53.679 --> 01:05:57.659 isn't easy like we're not like sitting here and it's 1217 01:05:57.679 --> 01:06:00.039 like oh this is let's just tell this story so 1218 01:06:00.059 --> 01:06:02.099 people can get to know you better it's like i'm 1219 01:06:02.139 --> 01:06:04.280 also crying because i'm like this is bringing up stuff 1220 01:06:04.300 --> 01:06:07.059 for me right and it's like we're all so connected 1221 01:06:07.079 --> 01:06:10.760 when you're saying these things it's like everyone watching this 1222 01:06:10.940 --> 01:06:13.960 will will yes feel more connected to you but also 1223 01:06:14.159 --> 01:06:17.039 it's therapeutic to hear other people talk about the heavy 1224 01:06:17.099 --> 01:06:20.829 fucking shit because i We do convince ourselves in moments 1225 01:06:20.869 --> 01:06:24.230 that maybe this is an isolated experience and maybe this 1226 01:06:24.449 --> 01:06:28.010 is– and yes, all of our experiences are unique to us. 1227 01:06:28.389 --> 01:06:30.650 But the themes and what it brings up and the 1228 01:06:30.730 --> 01:06:35.449 emotions that human beings experience of anger and loneliness and 1229 01:06:35.690 --> 01:06:39.510 grief and happiness, sadness, all the things, we all go 1230 01:06:39.590 --> 01:06:46.639 through it. So it's helpful sometimes to talk through things 1231 01:06:46.719 --> 01:06:50.400 because– you are at a different place in your life 1232 01:06:50.420 --> 01:06:52.639 right

now when you're speaking about it, right? Like I said, 1233 01:06:52.800 --> 01:06:55.320 if I interview you in five years from now, we 1234 01:06:55.360 --> 01:06:57.860 may have a different conversation about this because you're going 1235 01:06:57.889 --> 01:06:59.449 to live and you're going to experience and you're going 1236 01:06:59.469 --> 01:07:01.730 to meet more people and you're going to then have 1237 01:07:01.769 --> 01:07:06.650 a different perspective on life. But to kind of close 1238 01:07:06.690 --> 01:07:12.170 out that chapter, because I think loss is something that 1239 01:07:12.269 --> 01:07:15.030 people don't talk about enough. And I do think the 1240 01:07:15.050 --> 01:07:16.070 way that- Yeah, I completely agree. 1241 01:07:16.110 --> 01:07:16.329 Right? 1242 01:07:16.429 --> 01:07:18.780 And the way you just talked about it I literally 1243 01:07:18.820 --> 01:07:20.219 felt like I was just sitting with my friend because 1244 01:07:20.239 --> 01:07:23.889 I've had conversations like this of the what ifs and 1245 01:07:24.030 --> 01:07:26.210 had they not or what would have happened, all these things. 1246 01:07:28.210 --> 01:07:30.389 This is the real shit. And I get movies have 1247 01:07:30.429 --> 01:07:33.650 to do it a specific way. But this is it. 1248 01:07:33.670 --> 01:07:36.139 This is years later. And this is how we're feeling here. 1249 01:07:36.219 --> 01:07:38.840 And we're still grieving. And grieving isn't for a year 1250 01:07:38.880 --> 01:07:39.579 and you're done. 1251 01:07:39.719 --> 01:07:42.300 Oh, dude. It's forever. It's forever. 1252 01:07:42.320 --> 01:07:43.179 It's forever. 1253 01:07:43.199 --> 01:07:43.760 Yeah. Yeah. 1254 01:07:45.380 --> 01:07:49.000 Legally changed your name from Chloe to Dove. And from 1255 01:07:49.019 --> 01:07:52.000 what I can understand, you tell the story, but the 1256 01:07:52.039 --> 01:07:53.559 why and where did Dove come from? 1257 01:07:53.940 --> 01:07:55.739 My dad used to call me Dove as a nickname 1258 01:07:56.639 --> 01:08:00.230 when I was a kid. Dovey and like, you know, 1259 01:08:00.349 --> 01:08:02.690 little stupid things like that. It was never like, like 1260 01:08:02.710 --> 01:08:04.969 he would, there was, when I was really young, I 1261 01:08:05.130 --> 01:08:07.570 think it was more of a thing than when I 1262 01:08:07.610 --> 01:08:09.730 got older. But it was something that like always felt 1263 01:08:11.690 --> 01:08:15.909 you know, like a me and him thing, like personal, sweet, intimate. 1264 01:08:16.560 --> 01:08:21.699 And so I think when I got older, I just 1265 01:08:21.840 --> 01:08:26.659 wanted to feel like even before he passed, I was 1266 01:08:26.800 --> 01:08:29.819 wanting to feel that connection with him. I was wanting 1267 01:08:29.840 --> 01:08:31.619 to feel like his daughter. I was wanting a piece 1268 01:08:31.659 --> 01:08:36.449 of him. And so I did that in honor of 1269 01:08:36.510 --> 01:08:39.369 him and to feel more like everywhere I went, everyone 1270 01:08:39.390 --> 01:08:58.970 was calling me what he used to call me. Okay. 1271 01:08:59.899 --> 01:09:01.539 Shifting the conversation a little bit. 1272 01:09:01.619 --> 01:09:02.279 Let's get into it. 1273 01:09:02.500 --> 01:09:06.739 You referenced how all of these things obviously can impact 1274 01:09:06.899 --> 01:09:15.710 your romantic relationships. And I obviously know that there's a little, well, 1275 01:09:15.750 --> 01:09:21.810 a big ring on your finger. You are recently engaged. 1276 01:09:22.069 --> 01:09:22.289 Yes. 1277 01:09:22.529 --> 01:09:28.859 I need to know how through all of the experiences 1278 01:09:29.260 --> 01:09:33.260 and whether toxic or traumatic or just not the right fit, 1279 01:09:33.640 --> 01:09:35.920 how did you know he was the one? 1280 01:09:36.279 --> 01:09:41.460 Oh God. Um, I knew really early. Uh, I knew 1281 01:09:41.520 --> 01:09:46.189 like way too early. Um, I wrote a song about 1282 01:09:46.229 --> 01:09:49.109 that too. I was like, like I hadn't even told 1283 01:09:49.130 --> 01:09:51.960 him I loved him when I was like, this is 1284 01:09:52.119 --> 01:09:55.859 probably like, if he's not the person I end up marrying, 1285 01:09:55.880 --> 01:09:58.239 that's going to like really break my heart because my 1286 01:09:58.300 --> 01:10:00.840 body and my mind and everything feels like that's what 1287 01:10:00.859 --> 01:10:03.699 this is. Um, so I was like super freaked out 1288 01:10:03.720 --> 01:10:07.640 about that. Like naturally I was like, yeah, I really was. 1289 01:10:07.699 --> 01:10:12.079 I was uneasy. Um, I was really uneasy. And he 1290 01:10:12.159 --> 01:10:14.439 also was in a very different place in his life. 1291 01:10:14.479 --> 01:10:18.640 Like he was not, um, I think he would feel 1292 01:10:18.659 --> 01:10:20.659 comfortable with me saying he was not the happiest, you know, 1293 01:10:20.760 --> 01:10:30.189 he was, Struggling emotionally and everything wise. And so he 1294 01:10:30.229 --> 01:10:35.750 was also not like matching my level of like, oh, 1295 01:10:35.850 --> 01:10:38.189 this feels like something really special. He was still like 1296 01:10:39.649 --> 01:10:41.510 kind of an enigma. You know what I mean? Like 1297 01:10:41.550 --> 01:10:43.649 he was kind of behind layers of glass, but I 1298 01:10:43.670 --> 01:10:46.649 was like, I just have this feeling that whoever's behind 1299 01:10:46.689 --> 01:10:49.789 these layers of glass is going to be someone very 1300 01:10:50.270 --> 01:10:54.399 importance in my life. And so we started dating in 1301 01:10:54.420 --> 01:10:58.220 the most ridiculous way. We met at the VMAs, which 1302 01:10:58.239 --> 01:11:00.789 is like the stupidest way you can meet your partner. 1303 01:11:00.810 --> 01:11:03.130 Not because the VMAs are stupid, but because it's like 1304 01:11:03.149 --> 01:11:06.529 one night only. Like it sounds like a book, like 1305

01:11:06.569 --> 01:11:09.029 a fan fiction, you know? Like it's like we ran 1306 01:11:09.069 --> 01:11:11.329 into each other in passing and it was like, It's 1307 01:11:11.350 --> 01:11:12.810 so stupid. It's so dumb. 1308 01:11:12.850 --> 01:11:14.029 And then what did you do? Just like get each 1309 01:11:14.050 --> 01:11:14.630 other's number? 1310 01:11:15.069 --> 01:11:15.270 No. 1311 01:11:15.409 --> 01:11:15.689 Okay. 1312 01:11:15.789 --> 01:11:16.949 Here's something I want to go on the record. 1313 01:11:16.989 --> 01:11:17.909 Oh, let's go on the record. 1314 01:11:17.930 --> 01:11:21.050 And I want to clarify a couple things. All right. 1315 01:11:21.090 --> 01:11:22.729 We're done crying. It's time to be serious. Yeah, well, 1316 01:11:22.750 --> 01:11:23.029 let's go. 1317 01:11:23.069 --> 01:11:23.409 Let's go. 1318 01:11:23.569 --> 01:11:28.310 It's time to be serious. So we met for, I 1319 01:11:28.439 --> 01:11:33.579 have to say, if I were to accurately estimate, 14 1320 01:11:34.140 --> 01:11:36.279 seconds at the most. 1321 01:11:36.319 --> 01:11:36.439 Okay. 1322 01:11:36.460 --> 01:11:36.579 Okay. 1323 01:11:37.069 --> 01:11:40.109 At the 20... She's like, I'm tapping in. I'm tapping in. 1324 01:11:40.489 --> 01:11:41.390 I'm getting rid of my tears. 1325 01:11:41.409 --> 01:11:43.029 She's drying her eyes, getting rid of the salt water. 1326 01:11:44.310 --> 01:11:45.550 I would say it couldn't have been more than 14 1327 01:11:45.550 --> 01:11:48.289 or 15 seconds at the 2022 VMAs. 1328 01:11:49.449 --> 01:11:49.770 They. 1329 01:11:50.329 --> 01:11:51.989 He is in a band called Monoskin and they were 1330 01:11:52.050 --> 01:11:54.310 up for an award. I was up for the same award. 1331 01:11:54.869 --> 01:11:59.470 What you do, cordially, is whoever wins, after you go like, congrats, dude. 1332 01:12:00.310 --> 01:12:02.409 So I won. And so we're backstage and the backstage 1333 01:12:02.449 --> 01:12:06.340 is very small. It is... It is the size of 1334 01:12:06.420 --> 01:12:08.359 like a fucking, I don't know. It's like, I don't 1335 01:12:08.380 --> 01:12:09.300 know what to compare it to. 1336 01:12:09.359 --> 01:12:10.920 What accent are we going into right now? 1337 01:12:11.439 --> 01:12:12.979 If I say what it is, everyone's going to tell 1338 01:12:13.000 --> 01:12:14.779 me it's not that. So it's East Coast. Just go 1339 01:12:14.800 --> 01:12:19.890 with it. East Coast. Okay, okay. So fucking, it's a 1340 01:12:19.979 --> 01:12:22.829 small area. Like it's like, it's like the size of like. 1341 01:12:23.409 --> 01:12:23.949 It's tiny. 1342 01:12:24.069 --> 01:12:25.689 Like in front of a movie, like in front of 1343 01:12:25.729 --> 01:12:27.630 a movie theater, like the concession stand. It's like that 1344 01:12:27.729 --> 01:12:28.930 and like a little bit of standing room. And that's 1345 01:12:28.949 --> 01:12:30.460 how small it is. It's small. You've seen it. 1346 01:12:30.550 --> 01:12:31.329 We're

rubbing shoulders. 1347 01:12:31.390 --> 01:12:33.630 It's small back there. Tiny. We're rubbing shoulders and there's 1348 01:12:33.810 --> 01:12:36.060 four of them. So I just won the award. I'm like, 1349 01:12:36.100 --> 01:12:38.600 oh my God, I won a VMA. I come backstage 1350 01:12:38.899 --> 01:12:43.760 and they're naturally like, nice to meet you. Congrats. And 1351 01:12:43.939 --> 01:12:47.979 I actually spoke with Victoria, his bassist, and she was like, congrats, girl. 1352 01:12:48.000 --> 01:12:52.270 And I was like, yes, girl. Like, you're amazing. And 1353 01:12:52.289 --> 01:12:54.470 then Ethan and Thomas were like, congrats. And then Damiano 1354 01:12:54.489 --> 01:12:57.310 was in the back. So he barely looked at me. 1355 01:12:57.829 --> 01:13:01.890 And he was also... not giving off friendly vibes. Like 1356 01:13:01.949 --> 01:13:04.289 he was like, I was like, that guy fucking hates me. 1357 01:13:04.369 --> 01:13:05.149 All right, swerve. 1358 01:13:05.170 --> 01:13:06.850 Like I was like, gonna go on with my night. 1359 01:13:06.890 --> 01:13:08.449 Like I met a bunch of people. Everybody's like, congrats. 1360 01:13:08.470 --> 01:13:10.529 And I was like, I didn't think about it. It 1361 01:13:10.569 --> 01:13:13.869 was not, there's this whole conspiracy online that I locked 1362 01:13:13.949 --> 01:13:17.189 eyes with him and I was like, I'm biding my time. 1363 01:13:17.260 --> 01:13:19.239 And I waited like a year and a half and 1364 01:13:19.260 --> 01:13:21.340 then I like struck. Like, but that's not what happened. 1365 01:13:21.359 --> 01:13:24.119 I met him, I literally met him for no time, guys. 1366 01:13:24.279 --> 01:13:27.779 And then he was back there like this and he 1367 01:13:27.800 --> 01:13:30.710 was like, congrats. And I was like, oh, weird vibe 1368 01:13:30.930 --> 01:13:32.930 and i was like nice to meet you and later 1369 01:13:32.970 --> 01:13:34.310 i learned he was just like in a really bad 1370 01:13:34.350 --> 01:13:36.399 place like it had nothing to do with me but 1371 01:13:36.420 --> 01:13:38.760 i took it personally and i was like fucking weird 1372 01:13:38.800 --> 01:13:42.060 all right bye okay and this is the other thing 1373 01:13:42.100 --> 01:13:44.640 i have to clear up dun dun i'm like what's 1374 01:13:44.680 --> 01:13:47.489 the fucking like cops music like dun dun like yeah yeah. 1375 01:13:47.229 --> 01:13:49.550 Yeah and i love like a direct look to camera 1376 01:13:49.569 --> 01:13:50.989 you're like hello. 1377 01:13:50.789 --> 01:13:57.380 Listen up ladies and gentlemen and everybody listening There was 1378 01:13:57.420 --> 01:13:59.579 this interview that they did where they were like, what 1379 01:13:59.600 --> 01:14:02.510 celebrities have slid into your DMs? And Damiano, before I 1380 01:14:02.529 --> 01:14:05.250 had even like met him, I think, I don't know 1381 01:14:05.270 --> 01:14:06.750 what the timeline was because I don't know when they 1382 01:14:06.770 --> 01:14:09.489 did this interview. Right. Was like Dove Cameron. And now 1383 01:14:09.550 --> 01:14:12.300 everybody's like, she was trying for. No, no. 1384 01:14:12.640 --> 01:14:12.840 No? 1385 01:14:13.039 --> 01:14:15.199 I looked back because I was like, what is this? 1386 01:14:15.800 --> 01:14:19.560 I had posted and tagged them in a video performance 1387 01:14:19.579 --> 01:14:21.579 of them for the iHeartRadio Music Awards. And I was like, 1388 01:14:21.619 --> 01:14:22.239 cool band. 1389 01:14:22.659 --> 01:14:22.880 Right. 1390 01:14:22.939 --> 01:14:24.640 And then I was like, the new queen. And then 1391 01:14:24.680 --> 01:14:26.239 you slide and it looks like you DM'd. 1392 01:14:26.939 --> 01:14:29.020 But I think he was saying that's like sliding into 1393 01:14:29.039 --> 01:14:30.859 the DMs. Like, I don't think he thought it was like, 1394 01:14:31.359 --> 01:14:33.590 who's flirting with you. He was like, who tagged you? 1395 01:14:33.649 --> 01:14:36.409 Who interacted with you? Who DM'd you? That was it. 1396 01:14:36.449 --> 01:14:39.270 Meanwhile, people are thinking you're like, hey, babe. 1397 01:14:39.310 --> 01:14:41.989 Well, especially because first of all, I am nothing if 1398 01:14:42.050 --> 01:14:45.989 not practical. Even if I think someone is maybe cute. 1399 01:14:46.050 --> 01:14:49.329 First of all, I have never slid into DMs in 1400 01:14:49.350 --> 01:14:52.560 a flirtatious way because- I'm not good over text. And also, 1401 01:14:52.720 --> 01:14:54.239 what if I don't like you in real life? What 1402 01:14:54.260 --> 01:14:55.960 if we have this whole thing over text and then 1403 01:14:55.979 --> 01:14:58.869 I meet you and I'm like, I don't like you. Like, 1404 01:14:58.890 --> 01:15:00.850 I'm not going to do that, you know? So, like, 1405 01:15:01.470 --> 01:15:03.310 you can look back on my text record. Anytime someone 1406 01:15:03.329 --> 01:15:07.970 has slid into my DMs, seen. I'm not replying. It's weird. Like, 1407 01:15:08.800 --> 01:15:09.760 catch me in real life. 1408 01:15:09.819 --> 01:15:10.239 I don't know. 1409 01:15:10.300 --> 01:15:12.600 Catch me in real life. Let's see if we have chemistry. 1410 01:15:13.079 --> 01:15:15.659 So that didn't happen. I tagged them in something and 1411 01:15:15.680 --> 01:15:16.859 I tagged the band. 1412 01:15:17.060 --> 01:15:19.079 So is the internet like making it seem like you're like, 1413 01:15:19.180 --> 01:15:20.520 you were like obsessed with him for years? 1414 01:15:20.539 --> 01:15:22.819 Not the whole internet, but there's a small section of 1415 01:15:22.859 --> 01:15:25.279 people that always bring up, they're like, but she did 1416 01:15:25.310 --> 01:15:26.770 slide into his DM. And I'm like, no one did. 1417 01:15:26.779 --> 01:15:27.970 You're like, guys, please leave me alone. 1418 01:15:28.050 --> 01:15:30.130 I fully didn't. And I also looked back because I 1419 01:15:30.170 --> 01:15:31.630 was like, did

I? 1420 01:15:31.850 --> 01:15:32.069 Right. 1421 01:15:32.210 --> 01:15:34.550 Because he said that before I like had really met him. 1422 01:15:34.590 --> 01:15:35.869 So I was like, I must have. And it was 1423 01:15:35.909 --> 01:15:39.050 because I tagged them because I was so impressed by them. 1424 01:15:39.189 --> 01:15:41.399 Of course. I was a fan of their music. And 1425 01:15:41.420 --> 01:15:43.659 then the 2023 VMAs roll around and we had a 1426 01:15:43.659 --> 01:15:45.979 reason to talk. And he was single and I was 1427 01:15:46.039 --> 01:15:47.800 single and he was in a better place and I 1428 01:15:47.819 --> 01:15:49.119 was in a better place. And he was like, I 1429 01:15:49.119 --> 01:15:52.000 don't know if you remember me. I'm Damiano. And I 1430 01:15:52.039 --> 01:15:56.920 was like, yeah, I remember you. Like, you're so different now. Like, 1431 01:15:56.960 --> 01:15:59.020 he was so friendly. And then he was like, do 1432 01:15:59.039 --> 01:16:00.520 you want to come to our show at Madison Square Garden? 1433 01:16:00.560 --> 01:16:04.260 And I was like, yeah. And then we just started dating. 1434 01:16:04.479 --> 01:16:08.399 And now we're engaged. Like, it's so, so... Innocent and simple. 1435 01:16:08.439 --> 01:16:11.739 But it's amazing and it's so cute to... It's really. 1436 01:16:12.100 --> 01:16:13.020 It's really cute. 1437 01:16:13.180 --> 01:16:15.720 It's really cute that it started that way now to 1438 01:16:15.760 --> 01:16:17.619 be like you're fully engaged. 1439 01:16:18.020 --> 01:16:21.350 It's also so like, I don't know, like meet cute. 1440 01:16:21.489 --> 01:16:23.369 Like I look back and I'm like all the different 1441 01:16:23.430 --> 01:16:25.149 stars that had to align to make that happen. 1442 01:16:25.289 --> 01:16:25.649 Fully. 1443 01:16:25.750 --> 01:16:26.630 It blows my mind. 1444 01:16:26.670 --> 01:16:28.930 And it didn't just happen overnight. It was this like 1445 01:16:29.670 --> 01:16:32.810 low burn but first fully worked in the industry. Well, 1446 01:16:32.850 --> 01:16:33.640 it was just like all these. 1447 01:16:33.560 --> 01:16:36.810 Different ways that we almost... But then we didn't until 1448 01:16:36.850 --> 01:16:39.569 it was right. Like that's what's mind blowing to me. 1449 01:16:39.609 --> 01:16:42.100 Because if I had met him before I did in 1450 01:16:42.140 --> 01:16:44.939 a way where he was interested in me and there 1451 01:16:44.960 --> 01:16:47.220 was an opportunity for us to be dating, I would 1452 01:16:47.260 --> 01:16:49.239 not have been ready because I was so depressed. 1453 01:16:49.500 --> 01:16:50.939 So like you weren't in a place to date. 1454 01:16:51.220 --> 01:16:52.800 No, I was like celibate. 1455 01:16:53.060 --> 01:16:57.600 I was like, that was the sabbatical hiatus that we discussed. 1456 01:16:57.619 --> 01:16:59.880 Celibacy era where I was like, don't touch me. Don't 1457 01:16:59.899 --> 01:17:01.600 look at me. Don't come close to me. I'm not 1458 01:17:01.619 --> 01:17:04.319 leaving my house. Like I'm I was like dark night 1459 01:17:04.340 --> 01:17:05.399 of the soul for a year. 1460 01:17:05.659 --> 01:17:06.760 And then you were ready. 1461 01:17:07.319 --> 01:17:09.119 I literally texted my friends. I was like, I think 1462 01:17:09.189 --> 01:17:10.949 I'm ready to date. One week later, he was like, 1463 01:17:11.029 --> 01:17:13.409 nice to meet you. I was like, oh, my God. 1464 01:17:13.510 --> 01:17:15.149 Wait a minute. Wait. 1465 01:17:15.609 --> 01:17:20.149 So then give us a little tidbit. How did it 1466 01:17:20.189 --> 01:17:22.109 go down? Give me something. 1467 01:17:23.390 --> 01:17:24.270 Okay. Give me something. 1468 01:17:24.369 --> 01:17:24.729 Okay. 1469 01:17:24.770 --> 01:17:29.260 So it's actually very funny and then like very sweet. Okay. 1470 01:17:29.270 --> 01:17:33.119 Because so– I'm obsessed. 1471 01:17:33.239 --> 01:17:38.369 It's honestly, it sends me because if you knew him, 1472 01:17:38.409 --> 01:17:40.850 this would be so, so cute and funny. But so 1473 01:17:40.890 --> 01:17:41.970 he's a Capricorn too. 1474 01:17:43.170 --> 01:17:43.649 Okay. 1475 01:17:44.069 --> 01:17:51.180 And he is like the most regimented, like by the 1476 01:17:51.189 --> 01:17:54.439 books guy. Like he's like, there's a way that things 1477 01:17:54.520 --> 01:17:57.239 should be done. And if they are not done that way, 1478 01:17:57.260 --> 01:18:00.899 then it's wrong. And so We had talked about the 1479 01:18:00.920 --> 01:18:03.720 fact that we wanted to get married. Like, I knew– 1480 01:18:04.000 --> 01:18:06.300 it was not, like, this big, like, will he, won't he? 1481 01:18:06.340 --> 01:18:06.510 Yes. 1482 01:18:06.520 --> 01:18:08.850 Like, I knew it was coming. Because he told me. Like, 1483 01:18:08.890 --> 01:18:11.970 he was like, I'm going to propose. And I was like, really? 1484 01:18:12.289 --> 01:18:14.029 And he was like, 100%. 1485 01:18:14.029 --> 01:18:14.489 So you knew. 1486 01:18:14.710 --> 01:18:16.609 Yeah, but he'd been telling me for a long time. Like, 1487 01:18:17.250 --> 01:18:18.630 I think he told me after, like, six months of 1488 01:18:18.670 --> 01:18:21.069 dating that he was like, I'm going to propose, but 1489 01:18:21.109 --> 01:18:23.619 not for a couple years. And I was like– Great. 1490 01:18:23.859 --> 01:18:26.239 Do you? Yeah. I was like, love that. 1491 01:18:26.260 --> 01:18:26.359 Great. 1492 01:18:27.050 --> 01:18:29.640 Also, I also was a little bit like, maybe he won't. Like, 1493 01:18:29.770 --> 01:18:31.359 he says that now. It's only been a couple months. 1494 01:18:32.579 --> 01:18:37.640 And then at the top of like 2024, he was like, no, 1495 01:18:37.680 --> 01:18:39.460 top of 2025, we were in New York. And he 1496 01:18:39.500 --> 01:18:42.510 was like, we were both like crying. And he was like, 1497 01:18:42.520 --> 01:18:43.590 I want to marry you. And I was like, I know, 1498

01:18:43.630 --> 01:18:46.119 me too. And he was like, nobody want to marry you. 1499 01:18:46.159 --> 01:18:48.260 And I was like, I know I, we've spoken about this, 1500 01:18:48.300 --> 01:18:51.939 like me too. And he was like, I want to 1501 01:18:51.960 --> 01:18:55.699 marry you as soon as possible. And I was like, oh, okay. 1502 01:18:55.739 --> 01:18:57.239 But like, you have to go on your world tour. 1503 01:18:57.319 --> 01:18:59.810 And like, at the time I was also supposed to 1504 01:18:59.819 --> 01:19:01.970 go on my world tour. And I was like, my, 1505 01:19:02.090 --> 01:19:03.229 my show is going to come out, like all this 1506 01:19:03.250 --> 01:19:05.630 stuff's happening. we wouldn't be able to do it for 1507 01:19:05.649 --> 01:19:06.729 two years. He's like, no, I think we could do 1508 01:19:06.770 --> 01:19:08.430 it next year. And so like all, every step of 1509 01:19:08.449 --> 01:19:09.550 the way I knew. 1510 01:19:09.890 --> 01:19:11.310 You were speaking about this openly. 1511 01:19:11.529 --> 01:19:11.949 Yeah. 1512 01:19:11.989 --> 01:19:13.909 Because I don't think that that thing in the movies is. 1513 01:19:14.300 --> 01:19:15.140 I agree. You need to. 1514 01:19:15.260 --> 01:19:16.380 You grow up and you're like, wait. 1515 01:19:16.409 --> 01:19:19.000 Well, and you should like be an active participant in 1516 01:19:19.039 --> 01:19:20.220 deciding if you like. 1517 01:19:20.260 --> 01:19:21.119 Want to get married. 1518 01:19:21.180 --> 01:19:21.500 Yeah. 1519 01:19:21.560 --> 01:19:24.300 Or like what that looks like or do your values 1520 01:19:24.340 --> 01:19:25.020 align or. 1521 01:19:25.079 --> 01:19:26.180 Talk about it all before. 1522 01:19:26.199 --> 01:19:28.779 The future. Like, do you want kids? Like, what about, 1523 01:19:28.800 --> 01:19:29.979 how do you feel about, where do you want to live? 1524 01:19:30.020 --> 01:19:34.140 Like you cannot enter into a contract. Like just. You 1525 01:19:34.159 --> 01:19:35.739 grew up with these movies as a girl and they're 1526 01:19:35.770 --> 01:19:38.229 all like, yeah, they're like, now I have to leave 1527 01:19:38.289 --> 01:19:40.229 my apartment. And it's like, wait, but not to say 1528 01:19:40.250 --> 01:19:41.750 that you should always live together, but you should at 1529 01:19:41.770 --> 01:19:43.880 least experience what it's like to live with someone. 1530 01:19:43.960 --> 01:19:45.819 And you should be- In my opinion. You can be 1531 01:19:45.939 --> 01:19:50.199 shocked by the- moment he decides to do it but 1532 01:19:50.260 --> 01:19:52.579 you shouldn't be shocked that he's doing. 1533 01:19:52.300 --> 01:19:54.970 It I agree because like in all these movies it's 1534 01:19:54.979 --> 01:19:57.369 like that's my boyfriend my boyfriend my oh my god 1535 01:19:57.409 --> 01:20:00.189 he chose me and it's like no it's fucking weird 1536 01:20:00.229 --> 01:20:01.210 I want to be in on. 1537 01:20:01.170 --> 01:20:04.590 This I did the same thing with my husband now 1538 01:20:04.689 --> 01:20:07.560 I was like I'm ready. You can do it. Because 1539 01:20:07.579 --> 01:20:09.779 he had been like, I'm ready whenever you're ready. And 1540 01:20:09.819 --> 01:20:11.319 finally I turned to him at one dinner. I was like, 1541 01:20:11.520 --> 01:20:12.090 you can do it. 1542 01:20:12.159 --> 01:20:13.760 And he had it in his pocket. I was like, 1543 01:20:14.319 --> 01:20:14.619 I don't know. 1544 01:20:14.640 --> 01:20:16.399 I don't want to know when it's happening, but you're, 1545 01:20:17.000 --> 01:20:18.560 you can do it. Like I'm ready. And then we 1546 01:20:18.590 --> 01:20:20.930 were both talked about it for a long time before 1547 01:20:20.970 --> 01:20:23.229 then it happened. So like I'm, we're on the same page. Again, 1548 01:20:23.329 --> 01:20:25.609 everyone has different ideas, but I'm on the same page. 1549 01:20:25.630 --> 01:20:27.270 For me, I just want to, it's not that I 1550 01:20:27.329 --> 01:20:31.800 don't like being surprised. It's just that like, Yeah. Again, 1551 01:20:32.000 --> 01:20:34.300 it just feels practical. It just feels adult, right? 1552 01:20:34.619 --> 01:20:34.859 Okay. 1553 01:20:35.079 --> 01:20:37.300 So? So I know it's coming, but I don't know when. 1554 01:20:37.539 --> 01:20:40.500 And he's telling me things like, oh, we're starting to 1555 01:20:40.520 --> 01:20:43.989 design the ring. And I was like, what does that mean? Like, 1556 01:20:44.010 --> 01:20:45.329 does that mean it's two weeks away? Does it mean 1557 01:20:45.369 --> 01:20:49.149 it's six months away? Like such an amorphous concept. And 1558 01:20:49.609 --> 01:20:51.529 so I start like telling a couple of my friends, 1559 01:20:51.550 --> 01:20:54.640 like I'm going into songwriting sessions being like, he's fucking 1560 01:20:54.659 --> 01:20:57.909 designing the ring. And they're like, so we're like, I'm like, 1561 01:20:57.949 --> 01:20:59.989 what's the fucking plan? I'm not a girl girl like that. 1562 01:21:00.010 --> 01:21:02.010 What are we going to do? And they were like, 1563 01:21:02.029 --> 01:21:03.869 you have to wear white every fucking day. And I 1564 01:21:03.869 --> 01:21:05.949 was like, you're so fucking right, queen. I got to 1565 01:21:06.680 --> 01:21:07.029 order all. 1566 01:21:06.949 --> 01:21:07.819 This fucking white. 1567 01:21:08.420 --> 01:21:11.920 And we were going on this vacation in August to Puglia. 1568 01:21:13.380 --> 01:21:17.119 Did I say that right, Italians? I really tried. Which 1569 01:21:17.159 --> 01:21:20.630 is like a beachy Italian getaway. And I was like, 1570 01:21:21.579 --> 01:21:23.380 this is what's going to happen. I was like, we're 1571 01:21:23.399 --> 01:21:24.600 going away for three weeks. 1572 01:21:24.699 --> 01:21:25.779 White, white, white. 1573 01:21:25.819 --> 01:21:28.699 Exactly. I was like, white for breakfast, white for lunch. 1574 01:21:28.739 --> 01:21:30.890 He's like, wow, you look

so, somebody said the other day, 1575 01:21:30.979 --> 01:21:33.670 it's not funny. Someone was like, wow, baby, you look 1576 01:21:33.689 --> 01:21:35.289 like you're about to join a cult. Like, it's like, 1577 01:21:35.710 --> 01:21:38.109 it is true. It's so like, it's so like, you 1578 01:21:38.130 --> 01:21:42.029 open your luggage bag and you're like, yeah, dude. And 1579 01:21:42.050 --> 01:21:45.850 also impractical for a vacation. Like you're like, everything's fucking dirty. Um, 1580 01:21:46.689 --> 01:21:48.470 but I was like, trying my best. Like every day 1581 01:21:48.489 --> 01:21:50.979 I was like, learning how to use like bronzer. Like 1582 01:21:51.060 --> 01:21:53.260 I was like, I was like going in the sun 1583 01:21:53.279 --> 01:21:55.819 and like doing like extra like little braids. You can 1584 01:21:55.859 --> 01:21:57.500 go back and look at my TikTok. I was doing it. 1585 01:21:57.500 --> 01:21:59.420 Oh my God. People will be like, oh yeah, this 1586 01:21:59.460 --> 01:22:01.060 is when she thought she was going to get proposed to. 1587 01:22:01.149 --> 01:22:06.449 I was like trying, trying to be girly. Vacation, you know, 1588 01:22:06.930 --> 01:22:08.470 we're on like the, one of the final nights and 1589 01:22:08.510 --> 01:22:10.590 he goes like, I know I'm not supposed to say this, 1590 01:22:10.630 --> 01:22:12.569 but I'm just a little drunk and I can't wait 1591 01:22:12.609 --> 01:22:14.090 for you to see the ring. It's like a ring 1592 01:22:14.130 --> 01:22:18.439 for a princess. And I was like, So it's not here. 1593 01:22:18.500 --> 01:22:20.460 So I was like, the ring's not here. 1594 01:22:20.560 --> 01:22:21.359 Oh my God. 1595 01:22:21.880 --> 01:22:23.520 And so I, but I didn't have a problem. I 1596 01:22:23.560 --> 01:22:26.010 was just like, I want to be at least looking cute. 1597 01:22:26.020 --> 01:22:27.970 You want to be looking cute. Looking cute. 1598 01:22:28.210 --> 01:22:28.659 I get it. 1599 01:22:29.270 --> 01:22:32.069 So all this time's going by and I'm like, maybe 1600 01:22:32.109 --> 01:22:34.029 it's this, maybe he's going to do it here. And my, 1601 01:22:34.250 --> 01:22:35.869 literally like my manager who's in the other room, we 1602 01:22:35.890 --> 01:22:38.210 were like guessing, being like, maybe it's Japan. You guys 1603 01:22:38.250 --> 01:22:39.630 love Japan. And I was like, that's true. But like, 1604 01:22:40.159 --> 01:22:41.390 but he wouldn't want to do it in public. Like, 1605 01:22:41.399 --> 01:22:43.189 so we're trying to crack this code, right? 1606 01:22:43.210 --> 01:22:44.470 You're like, I have to stop wearing white. 1607 01:22:44.569 --> 01:22:46.789 All the girls, I was like, it's getting weird. I'm 1608 01:22:46.810 --> 01:22:49.470 wearing so much white. No, but, but, so all the 1609 01:22:49.510 --> 01:22:51.550 girls were like, huh? And I was like, nah. So, 1610 01:22:51.949 --> 01:22:54.270 so again, I was not in any hurry, but it 1611 01:22:54.310 --> 01:22:57.109 was just like, he'd been talking about it for so 1612 01:22:57.149 --> 01:22:59.529 long that it was like a six month period that 1613 01:22:59.550 --> 01:23:02.670 it could have been any time, right? Okay. And so, 1614 01:23:02.689 --> 01:23:08.500 so one day we're at home and I had said, baby, 1615 01:23:09.760 --> 01:23:12.000 We talked about it like a year ago that he 1616 01:23:12.039 --> 01:23:13.640 was like, I always felt like it would be really 1617 01:23:13.720 --> 01:23:17.779 romantic to propose like doing something normal so that it's like, 1618 01:23:17.800 --> 01:23:20.199 you know, this is like our life together. And I 1619 01:23:20.239 --> 01:23:23.880 was like, yeah, I'm not really one for like big outlandish, 1620 01:23:24.100 --> 01:23:27.289 like again, I'm a Capricorn. So I'm like, if you 1621 01:23:27.310 --> 01:23:28.930 throw me a surprise party, I'm going to be like, oh, 1622 01:23:28.989 --> 01:23:31.630 thank you. But it's not like how I would plan it. Yeah. 1623 01:23:32.069 --> 01:23:34.210 And so I was like, yeah, something low key. I agree. 1624 01:23:34.250 --> 01:23:36.329 But like you do you like I want you to 1625 01:23:36.369 --> 01:23:36.810 be happy. 1626 01:23:36.930 --> 01:23:37.189 Yes. 1627 01:23:37.529 --> 01:23:38.449 Basically, we were. 1628 01:23:39.520 --> 01:23:40.539 We were packing. 1629 01:23:41.319 --> 01:23:43.930 And I was in just a big t-shirt, no makeup. 1630 01:23:44.060 --> 01:23:47.250 My hair was like damp. And it was so funny 1631 01:23:47.310 --> 01:23:50.510 because he'd been finished packing, of course, because I was like, 1632 01:23:50.569 --> 01:23:53.789 I'm always like trying to pack like a fucking, like 1633 01:23:53.810 --> 01:23:55.930 I've never packed before in my life. And so I'm 1634 01:23:55.949 --> 01:23:58.489 like running around and I was in a particularly good mood. 1635 01:23:58.869 --> 01:24:01.489 And he was in the hallway, like watching me run 1636 01:24:01.529 --> 01:24:05.130 in and out of rooms like a Tasmanian devil. And 1637 01:24:06.510 --> 01:24:08.550 he wasn't moving from that spot. And I was like, 1638 01:24:10.729 --> 01:24:11.890 I was like, at this point he'd be like playing 1639 01:24:11.909 --> 01:24:13.949 video game or like something, right? Like I'm done packing. 1640 01:24:14.750 --> 01:24:16.069 And so I came out again and I like gave 1641 01:24:16.090 --> 01:24:17.689 him a kiss on the cheek and he did that thing. 1642 01:24:17.710 --> 01:24:19.149 I don't know if your partner ever does this, but 1643 01:24:19.180 --> 01:24:23.539 you know, you know when guys go. Yes. That look 1644 01:24:23.560 --> 01:24:26.539 where it's like suddenly you're like. Oh God. And I 1645 01:24:26.560 --> 01:24:28.560 knew and I fucking knew. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. 1646 01:24:28.579 --> 01:24:29.579 Cause I was like, I got to go put on 1647 01:24:29.619 --> 01:24:31.310 a dress. I got to go do my makeup. Like 1648

01:24:31.350 --> 01:24:33.489 I got to do something. Cause I had made him 1649 01:24:33.510 --> 01:24:35.670 promise that like, at least we would, we would try 1650 01:24:35.689 --> 01:24:38.680 to take a photograph of the moment. And so I 1651 01:24:38.720 --> 01:24:40.949 like panicked and I went into the other room and 1652 01:24:40.970 --> 01:24:43.949 I was like, I like kept packing and I was like, no. 1653 01:24:44.670 --> 01:24:46.289 Cause I, cause I told him, I told him that 1654 01:24:46.390 --> 01:24:48.850 I wanted to, I wanted photographic evidence. So like, there's 1655 01:24:48.869 --> 01:24:50.289 not a photographer here. And I was like trying to like, 1656 01:24:50.449 --> 01:24:51.329 and he goes, babe. 1657 01:24:51.350 --> 01:24:52.670 I was like, oh my God. 1658 01:24:53.029 --> 01:24:55.319 Oh my God. Cause also like just right before someone proposes, 1659 01:24:55.340 --> 01:24:57.300 like your heart rate just goes through the roof. And 1660 01:24:57.319 --> 01:24:58.560 he was like, can you come into the room please? 1661 01:24:59.199 --> 01:25:01.619 And I went into the living room and he got 1662 01:25:01.640 --> 01:25:03.300 down on one knee and I, dude, I swear I'm 1663 01:25:03.640 --> 01:25:07.630 not going to cry, but I started crying immediately. I 1664 01:25:07.890 --> 01:25:12.770 was like, because he, it was so fucking charming and 1665 01:25:12.909 --> 01:25:16.850 sweet and kind and moving. Cause he was like, he 1666 01:25:16.890 --> 01:25:19.829 was like, I, I know that some girls want like 1667 01:25:19.890 --> 01:25:22.729 rose petals and these big extravagant things, but I wanted 1668 01:25:22.789 --> 01:25:24.409 to do it like this because I want you to 1669 01:25:24.470 --> 01:25:27.069 know that I, the reason I want to marry you 1670 01:25:27.149 --> 01:25:30.079 is because I want this life with you. I want dishes. 1671 01:25:30.220 --> 01:25:33.659 I want laundry. I want normalcy. I want you in 1672 01:25:33.899 --> 01:25:36.500 your big t-shirt and your no makeup. And I want 1673 01:25:37.340 --> 01:25:40.630 a life life. And I choose this. I choose you. 1674 01:25:40.689 --> 01:25:42.310 I hope you choose me. I hope you choose this. 1675 01:25:42.550 --> 01:25:48.899 And I was like... You're like, fuck the white dress. 1676 01:25:48.960 --> 01:25:50.180 Fuck the white dress, dude. 1677 01:25:50.279 --> 01:25:53.119 I was like... That's amazing. I was so... I mean, 1678 01:25:53.159 --> 01:25:54.600 what more could you ask for? 1679 01:25:54.680 --> 01:25:57.859 You can't. That's the real shit in life. And of course, 1680 01:25:57.939 --> 01:25:59.640 and if you choose to do a wedding and you 1681 01:25:59.680 --> 01:26:02.760 want to do all the pictures and that's when that 1682 01:26:02.800 --> 01:26:04.520 can come. And if you choose that. 1683 01:26:04.640 --> 01:26:07.239 But I was so wrong because it was so much 1684 01:26:07.300 --> 01:26:11.260 more special the way that he did it. And real. Yeah. 1685 01:26:11.300 --> 01:26:13.189 And that's so like who he is as a person. 1686 01:26:13.199 --> 01:26:17.550 Like he's so, I don't know. He really is the 1687 01:26:17.590 --> 01:26:22.449 most normal, grounded, beautiful, smart person. And like, and it 1688 01:26:22.840 --> 01:26:26.100 It's so, the funniest part was at the end when 1689 01:26:26.140 --> 01:26:28.600 I go, because of course I'm like, yes, yes. And 1690 01:26:28.649 --> 01:26:30.130 I'm crying and he shows me the ring and I'm 1691 01:26:30.149 --> 01:26:31.649 like gobsmacked because wow. 1692 01:26:32.210 --> 01:26:33.329 It's so beautiful. 1693 01:26:33.350 --> 01:26:35.310 I really couldn't have met. 1694 01:26:35.350 --> 01:26:35.970 It's perfect. 1695 01:26:36.149 --> 01:26:39.289 Rose gold too. Like what a guy. What a fucking guy. 1696 01:26:39.329 --> 01:26:39.689 It's perfect. 1697 01:26:40.380 --> 01:26:42.569 And at the very end I go, by the way, 1698 01:26:42.600 --> 01:26:46.079 I'm downplaying it. I was crying a lot. At the 1699 01:26:46.180 --> 01:26:48.319 end I go, wait, but you said there was going 1700 01:26:48.340 --> 01:26:50.539 to be photographic evidence. And he picks up his phone 1701 01:26:50.560 --> 01:26:52.460 and he's like, I was videoing. And so now we 1702 01:26:52.479 --> 01:26:54.699 have this like minute long video of the proposal in 1703 01:26:54.739 --> 01:26:57.090 our living room. And you see me like this and 1704 01:26:57.130 --> 01:26:59.590 you see me shaking and him being like, oh no, 1705 01:26:59.649 --> 01:27:01.229 it's too big. And I'm like, it's okay. They're always 1706 01:27:01.270 --> 01:27:03.710 too big. Like, it's so beautiful. 1707 01:27:04.029 --> 01:27:07.470 It's so beautiful too, because again, I think every couple, 1708 01:27:07.590 --> 01:27:11.260 like you, he knows you and you know him. And 1709 01:27:11.300 --> 01:27:13.960 so you look back on that and we again, back 1710 01:27:13.979 --> 01:27:16.619 to the movies, we have these specific ideas. And some 1711 01:27:16.699 --> 01:27:19.960 people that actually the over the top is right. Some people, 1712 01:27:20.039 --> 01:27:22.220 the more quiet, like it's, it's, you need to know 1713 01:27:22.239 --> 01:27:24.560 your person and the fact that he knows you and 1714 01:27:24.619 --> 01:27:27.420 he listened to you and he actually almost knew you 1715 01:27:27.439 --> 01:27:30.239 better than yourself in that moment of exactly what you wanted. 1716 01:27:30.310 --> 01:27:31.810 Well, he did because I was over in the other 1717 01:27:31.829 --> 01:27:34.770 room being like, oh God, I look like shit. And 1718 01:27:34.869 --> 01:27:38.329 he was there being like, I, This is you. 1719 01:27:38.850 --> 01:27:43.600 It's so beautiful. And I'm also curious, of everything we 1720 01:27:43.640 --> 01:27:46.840 also have been talking about today, you've been through so 1721 01:27:46.859 --> 01:27:49.300 much in your life. And I think a lot of 1722 01:27:49.340 -->

01:27:54.420 times when you meet a partner romantically, at some point 1723 01:27:54.439 --> 01:27:56.640 you need to share with them what you've been through 1724 01:27:56.800 --> 01:28:00.060 and who you are and how have you been able 1725 01:28:00.180 --> 01:28:07.560 to share with him the moments in your life that have, yes, 1726 01:28:07.819 --> 01:28:09.970 shaped you and made you who you are in the 1727 01:28:10.020 --> 01:28:13.010 positives and also the traumatic things that have happened to you. 1728 01:28:13.069 --> 01:28:15.210 And like, how has he met you where you needed 1729 01:28:15.250 --> 01:28:16.670 to be met essentially? 1730 01:28:19.310 --> 01:28:26.069 Weirdly with ease, like I, I told him everything about 1731 01:28:26.130 --> 01:28:28.649 myself that I thought was make or break or that 1732 01:28:28.670 --> 01:28:30.930 I thought was educational or that I thought was too 1733 01:28:30.989 --> 01:28:35.869 much pretty immediately. Like I was like, I'm not going 1734 01:28:35.890 --> 01:28:38.039 to be anything else for you. I've done that before. 1735 01:28:38.060 --> 01:28:41.529 Here's absolutely... everything. Even the things I don't want to 1736 01:28:41.569 --> 01:28:45.229 admit to myself. Here's my mistakes. Here's the things that 1737 01:28:45.300 --> 01:28:47.189 I wish I did differently. Here's all the loss. Here's 1738 01:28:47.239 --> 01:28:50.800 my things I still struggle with, which is like, do 1739 01:28:50.840 --> 01:28:52.520 you sign on for this? And he was like, yeah. 1740 01:28:53.140 --> 01:28:55.460 Like he just was like, picked it up and put 1741 01:28:55.479 --> 01:28:59.079 it on his back. Like he was Oh my God, 1742 01:28:59.119 --> 01:29:01.479 it was so healing for me. And it continues to be, right? 1743 01:29:01.539 --> 01:29:06.430 Because like, I'll never forget actually, this was a big 1744 01:29:06.470 --> 01:29:12.109 important moment for me. We were watching Titanic for the 1745 01:29:12.130 --> 01:29:16.199 first time. Because I don't think he'd seen it, weirdly. 1746 01:29:16.220 --> 01:29:19.140 It's like one of the classics he hadn't seen. And 1747 01:29:19.180 --> 01:29:22.640 there's a moment at the very end when someone commits suicide. 1748 01:29:23.859 --> 01:29:25.640 And I had forgotten about it because I hadn't seen 1749 01:29:25.659 --> 01:29:29.619 Titanic in so long. But- that happened. And I immediately, 1750 01:29:29.649 --> 01:29:32.119 we were like lying in bed and this was like 1751 01:29:32.270 --> 01:29:35.390 month four, like early. And we'd been long distance for 1752 01:29:35.409 --> 01:29:38.050 the first two months. And he had like his hand 1753 01:29:38.090 --> 01:29:40.369 on my stomach and I was laying on his chest 1754 01:29:40.590 --> 01:29:43.130 and we were watching this and it was too early 1755 01:29:43.170 --> 01:29:45.829 in our relationship for me to break the chill, you know, 1756 01:29:45.869 --> 01:29:49.130 to like show true full trauma. But he

just sensed 1757 01:29:49.189 --> 01:29:54.210 my stomach go at that. And his brain went, oh, 1758 01:29:54.270 --> 01:29:57.479 of course. And he changed his entire posture. He didn't 1759 01:29:57.619 --> 01:30:01.960 ask me. He pulled me in. He started petting me. 1760 01:30:02.640 --> 01:30:04.960 And then he reached up without even seeing and started 1761 01:30:05.020 --> 01:30:08.020 to wipe away what he knew was going to be tears. 1762 01:30:10.439 --> 01:30:13.859 And at the end of the movie, he let the 1763 01:30:13.960 --> 01:30:16.579 air be open to be like, do you want to 1764 01:30:16.619 --> 01:30:18.420 talk about, do you not want to talk about that? 1765 01:30:18.880 --> 01:30:21.899 And at the end, I was like, I want to 1766 01:30:21.930 --> 01:30:28.560 talk about it. And he has always been so intuitive, supportive, 1767 01:30:30.079 --> 01:30:35.100 truly like unflappable, unshakable, and so ready to, especially with this, 1768 01:30:35.159 --> 01:30:39.119 be like, I do not know. I cannot say the 1769 01:30:39.159 --> 01:30:45.470 words that heal. But like, he's been, he's like a big, 1770 01:30:45.829 --> 01:30:47.130 I think I've said this before, but like a big 1771 01:30:47.189 --> 01:30:51.359 basin for all of these things. And because he only 1772 01:30:51.420 --> 01:30:55.039 has the interest in not carrying it for me because 1773 01:30:55.060 --> 01:30:57.659 he knows he can't but like loving me through it 1774 01:30:58.920 --> 01:31:03.380 he's uh he's never wavered like i've never once seen 1775 01:31:03.420 --> 01:31:05.260 him be like this is too much i've seen him 1776 01:31:05.300 --> 01:31:07.020 get frustrated when he can't help me where he's like 1777 01:31:07.399 --> 01:31:09.529 of course i wish i could lift this for you 1778 01:31:09.590 --> 01:31:12.010 and take it almost for you yeah yeah but he's 1779 01:31:12.029 --> 01:31:17.010 just the most evolved person Beautiful young man. It really 1780 01:31:17.069 --> 01:31:18.289 still shakes me. 1781 01:31:18.630 --> 01:31:20.729 No, and I appreciate you sharing because I do know 1782 01:31:20.770 --> 01:31:23.659 you guys are more private, but I think to all 1783 01:31:23.699 --> 01:31:26.199 the people listening who've been on this journey with us today, 1784 01:31:26.220 --> 01:31:30.979 I think when you hear and you know you've been 1785 01:31:31.000 --> 01:31:33.000 through so much in your life and there's people that 1786 01:31:33.020 --> 01:31:35.050 are going to be like, girl, I can relate on 1787 01:31:35.189 --> 01:31:38.029 so many of these topics and themes, I think sometimes 1788 01:31:38.090 --> 01:31:41.359 we can convince ourselves that we there's no way I'll 1789 01:31:41.399 --> 01:31:45.020 find someone who can yeah would be handle this right 1790 01:31:45.159 --> 01:31:47.439 handle it and what you're talking about actually which is 1791 01:31:47.479 --> 01:31:50.210 so beautiful is like no no you don't need to 1792 01:31:50.250 --> 01:31:52.850 push down your the grief and the sadness and the 1793 01:31:52.890 --> 01:31:55.399 things you actually just have to find the right person Yeah. 1794 01:31:55.420 --> 01:31:55.539 Yeah. 1795 01:31:55.579 --> 01:31:55.739 Yeah. 1796 01:32:12.500 --> 01:32:15.319 And don't shrink yourself or believe that you're too damaged 1797 01:32:15.359 --> 01:32:17.970 or too fucked up that you can't find it. It's just, 1798 01:32:18.189 --> 01:32:21.750 it really is about finding the right person that you 1799 01:32:21.789 --> 01:32:24.149 can merge your life with that can handle that with you. 1800 01:32:24.329 --> 01:32:27.850 Yes. Yeah, I completely agree. I also think like some 1801 01:32:27.890 --> 01:32:31.090 of my previous relationships were just bad matches. Some of 1802 01:32:31.130 --> 01:32:34.550 them were trauma bonds and me choosing to like continue 1803 01:32:34.750 --> 01:32:36.729 on that path and not seeing all the red flags 1804 01:32:36.770 --> 01:32:42.640 and they were truly terrible. And so like, I was 1805 01:32:42.859 --> 01:32:44.920 looking at that as a sort of a proof that 1806 01:32:45.060 --> 01:32:49.060 I was broken, right? Whereas, and like, I cannot choose love. 1807 01:32:49.260 --> 01:32:54.289 I cannot, I cannot, I'm not worthy of a real 1808 01:32:54.329 --> 01:32:56.270 love and I am always going to pick someone that's 1809 01:32:56.289 --> 01:32:57.949 going to harm me, right? That was my narrative. And 1810 01:32:57.970 --> 01:33:01.270 I know that's a lot of young women's narrative, women's narratives, 1811 01:33:01.390 --> 01:33:03.520 you know, people's narratives is that like, I am too 1812 01:33:03.560 --> 01:33:07.039 broken to not only be loved, but then accept it. 1813 01:33:07.500 --> 01:33:10.020 And so my choices for partner are always going to 1814 01:33:10.079 --> 01:33:13.979 be people that sort of mimic where I come from. 1815 01:33:14.739 --> 01:33:17.000 And I won't know how to ascertain that that's what's 1816 01:33:17.020 --> 01:33:20.140 happening until it's too late. That was what I had thought. 1817 01:33:20.880 --> 01:33:22.760 And then I spent some time alone and I was 1818 01:33:22.840 --> 01:33:26.500 finally ready to date someone. And when I say some time, 1819 01:33:26.520 --> 01:33:28.659 it was like two years. Like I spent like two 1820 01:33:28.680 --> 01:33:31.689 and a half years being not only not dating or 1821 01:33:31.729 --> 01:33:36.090 seeing anyone, but like really working through my shit so 1822 01:33:36.130 --> 01:33:38.850 that I felt okay being alone. So that I felt 1823 01:33:38.930 --> 01:33:42.140 like I actually don't need a partner. Um, so it 1824 01:33:42.159 --> 01:33:44.689 can fall into that old sort of like, just when 1825 01:33:44.729 --> 01:33:47.189 you stop looking, it comes, you know, and it is 1826 01:33:47.270 --> 01:33:49.550 true and it is true. But I think part of 1827 01:33:49.590 --> 01:33:51.930 that rather than like, it is energetic for

sure. Cause 1828 01:33:51.949 --> 01:33:54.409 you're like, I am fulfilled. And so someone's like, ah, 1829 01:33:55.350 --> 01:33:56.729 I feel, it feels like it's like an, it's a, 1830 01:33:56.909 --> 01:34:00.130 it's a vibration that attracts, but it is also a 1831 01:34:00.170 --> 01:34:03.609 bit scientific. Like it's, it's a bit more, not scientific, 1832 01:34:04.029 --> 01:34:10.510 logical because it's like, I am not. trying to take 1833 01:34:10.630 --> 01:34:13.189 from you. I'm not trying to make you into a 1834 01:34:13.210 --> 01:34:17.029 shape that you're not. I am simply here. And if 1835 01:34:17.090 --> 01:34:19.220 it works, it works. And what's more attractive than that? 1836 01:34:20.020 --> 01:34:20.420 Nothing. 1837 01:34:21.340 --> 01:34:21.649 For me too. 1838 01:34:22.199 --> 01:34:24.939 I also feel like– let's talk about your new show 1839 01:34:25.000 --> 01:34:30.380 because there's like weirdly some themes that we've like discussed 1840 01:34:30.420 --> 01:34:32.399 that you can like kind of tie to the show. 1841 01:34:32.420 --> 01:34:33.060 Oh, yeah. 1842 01:34:33.319 --> 01:34:34.760 There's a lot. 1843 01:34:34.840 --> 01:34:35.100 Yeah. 1844 01:34:35.359 --> 01:34:38.859 So 56 Days. You take it away and tell the 1845 01:34:38.920 --> 01:34:42.609 people– Give us a little just like what this is about. 1846 01:34:42.939 --> 01:34:46.100 So 56 Days, which no one realizes it's a title 1847 01:34:46.119 --> 01:34:47.800 because they keep saying they keep thinking we're saying it 1848 01:34:47.819 --> 01:34:50.640 comes out in 56 days. It's called 56 Days and 1849 01:34:50.659 --> 01:34:52.479 it is based on the novel by the same name. 1850 01:34:53.810 --> 01:34:56.489 It's a I guess I would call it like a 1851 01:34:56.590 --> 01:35:02.180 like a pseudo sexual thriller. It is a love story. 1852 01:35:03.130 --> 01:35:04.350 Starts out as a love story. 1853 01:35:04.369 --> 01:35:05.189 Yeah, I was going to say. 1854 01:35:05.550 --> 01:35:08.010 Starts out as a love story. It's a very like 1855 01:35:08.090 --> 01:35:10.670 meet cute, like, you know, boy meets girl in the 1856 01:35:10.689 --> 01:35:12.670 grocery store. And it's like, you go first. No, you 1857 01:35:12.689 --> 01:35:15.880 go first. Let's go for coffee. They have this very 1858 01:35:15.920 --> 01:35:19.159 sort of innocent chemistry. They have this nice walk. And 1859 01:35:19.180 --> 01:35:20.899 it's like, oh, I do this. I do this. Like, 1860 01:35:20.939 --> 01:35:23.140 do you want to go for a date? Okay. Very charming. 1861 01:35:23.260 --> 01:35:28.630 And then somehow between that day and 56 days later, 1862 01:35:29.069 --> 01:35:33.140 one of them ends up dead in a bathtub. Melted 1863 01:35:33.180 --> 01:35:33.720 by acid. 1864 01:35:35.359 --> 01:35:35.819 Casual. 1865 01:35:36.000 --> 01:35:40.430 So the whole– yeah. As it does. As it happens. 1866 01:35:40.590 --> 01:35:41.289 Obviously. 1867 01:35:41.390 --> 01:35:45.449 As all

the best love stories do. So basically the 1868 01:35:45.529 --> 01:35:49.109 show takes place over eight episodes and it is working 1869 01:35:49.310 --> 01:35:54.210 in– it's a dual timeline. So our storyline is progressing 1870 01:35:54.289 --> 01:35:58.430 towards day 56 and the police who are trying to 1871 01:35:58.470 --> 01:36:01.109 solve the case are solving it all over the course 1872 01:36:01.130 --> 01:36:03.710 of I think like one or two days. And they 1873 01:36:03.789 --> 01:36:06.819 are retroactively solving the case. So they're going, we're going 1874 01:36:07.060 --> 01:36:10.199 like this as they're, we're meeting them. 1875 01:36:10.479 --> 01:36:12.359 One, it's so fun. And I also know you were, 1876 01:36:12.840 --> 01:36:14.479 I think you kind of talked about how you were torn. 1877 01:36:14.520 --> 01:36:15.659 Like there's nudity in this. 1878 01:36:15.800 --> 01:36:16.180 Yeah. 1879 01:36:16.199 --> 01:36:18.770 How did you decide you were comfortable? 1880 01:36:18.789 --> 01:36:22.989 You know, it was funny. It's something that I was 1881 01:36:23.010 --> 01:36:25.649 always aware that I was probably going to inevitably do. 1882 01:36:26.789 --> 01:36:28.350 I don't know why I always felt that way. It 1883 01:36:28.409 --> 01:36:31.689 wasn't like an aspiration. It was just like, I grew 1884 01:36:31.789 --> 01:36:36.829 up watching these incredible actresses do nudity. And I remember 1885 01:36:36.869 --> 01:36:41.010 being like, wow, that's so brave and cool. Like that's 1886 01:36:41.050 --> 01:36:44.380 gotta be so, you have to be so courageous to 1887 01:36:44.409 --> 01:36:46.680 do that. And I know somebody in the comments is 1888 01:36:46.699 --> 01:36:49.960 gonna be like courageous. And it's like, yeah, courageous. It's 1889 01:36:50.100 --> 01:36:55.479 so vulnerable. Like, I don't think people really realize how 1890 01:36:55.539 --> 01:37:00.609 vulnerable it is to be fully naked, period, on camera, 1891 01:37:00.649 --> 01:37:05.609 but then fully naked simulating sex on camera in a 1892 01:37:05.649 --> 01:37:08.039 room full of people. Like, it is harrowing. 1893 01:37:08.680 --> 01:37:12.119 And for you, rewind to what you said earlier of 1894 01:37:12.270 --> 01:37:16.090 the first bikini photo you posted online. People were like– Yeah. No, 1895 01:37:16.130 --> 01:37:18.250 I thought about that. This is crazy. So it's like 1896 01:37:18.369 --> 01:37:21.289 this– to see, yes, as a woman to do this, 1897 01:37:21.489 --> 01:37:24.510 it is, I agree, courageous. On top of that, having 1898 01:37:24.550 --> 01:37:27.939 the Disney background, having people be familiar with you in 1899 01:37:28.119 --> 01:37:31.939 one light to then, you know, grow up essentially and 1900 01:37:31.979 --> 01:37:33.260 try something more adult. 1901 01:37:33.500 --> 01:37:37.359 Like, it is crazy. It's a kind of a crazy move. Yeah. 1902 01:37:37.420 --> 01:37:39.340 But I think, I mean, if it felt right, then 1903 01:37:39.359 --> 01:37:40.579 that's all that matters for you. 1904 01:37:40.680 --> 01:37:40.939 Right. 1905 01:37:40.960 --> 01:37:44.630 I was like, so down for it. I was like, 1906 01:37:44.890 --> 01:37:47.409 I don't really have any hangups about my body or sexuality. 1907 01:37:47.449 --> 01:37:52.710 Like I've never found nudity to be offensive or even objectifying. 1908 01:37:52.750 --> 01:37:56.569 Like I think that when people say that nudity is 1909 01:37:56.729 --> 01:37:59.770 lewd or crass or sinful or objectify, it's like, I 1910 01:37:59.850 --> 01:38:02.560 do find there's a fuck ton of internalized misogyny in that. 1911 01:38:03.479 --> 01:38:06.079 I don't care. Like I truly don't care. No, I 1912 01:38:06.100 --> 01:38:08.039 don't care. Like I see a naked woman and I'm like, wow, 1913 01:38:08.060 --> 01:38:09.619 what a beautiful naked woman. 1914 01:38:09.680 --> 01:38:09.840 Right. 1915 01:38:09.899 --> 01:38:13.750 What a piece of art. I'm not like, she's cheapened herself. 1916 01:38:13.829 --> 01:38:15.750 Or I'm not like, oh my God. It's like all 1917 01:38:15.770 --> 01:38:20.569 of these reactions are so, for me, the reactions are 1918 01:38:20.590 --> 01:38:23.989 actually the objectifying part, right? It's not the actual act 1919 01:38:24.090 --> 01:38:28.430 because naked bodies are an innocent thing. You are naked. 1920 01:38:28.710 --> 01:38:29.649 You are naked under that. 1921 01:38:29.729 --> 01:38:29.890 Right. 1922 01:38:30.050 --> 01:38:34.109 And you are making it weird. You are making it weird. Exactly. 1923 01:38:34.359 --> 01:38:36.680 What I will say about our show that I'm really 1924 01:38:36.739 --> 01:38:39.920 proud of and happy with is that the sex scenes 1925 01:38:40.899 --> 01:38:44.399 actually serve– they're much more tame, I think, than what 1926 01:38:44.420 --> 01:38:47.060 I'm making them out to be. But they serve as 1927 01:38:47.100 --> 01:38:49.520 a storytelling device because the sex scenes that are in 1928 01:38:49.539 --> 01:38:52.619 the first couple episodes are not the same tone as 1929 01:38:52.659 --> 01:38:55.560 the ones that are in the following episodes. And it's 1930 01:38:55.579 --> 01:38:59.850 like you watch their dynamic shift and change in this 1931 01:38:59.939 --> 01:39:04.710 very sort of intimate, vulnerable way that is more storytelling 1932 01:39:05.409 --> 01:39:08.470 than a lot of other devices for our show. 1933 01:39:08.670 --> 01:39:12.010 The Daddy Gang will love this. And I think also 1934 01:39:12.029 --> 01:39:16.579 the deception as a viewer it's like so fun to 1935 01:39:16.600 --> 01:39:19.640 be like I don't know what's happening right now and 1936 01:39:19.720 --> 01:39:23.470 the world that was created is so interesting and so 1937 01:39:23.689 --> 01:39:26.409 I'm very excited for everyone to watch it and also 1938 01:39:26.449 --> 01:39:30.750 support you I think I'm sure after This interview, everyone 1939 01:39:30.909 --> 01:39:33.609

that follows the show is going to fall even more 1940 01:39:33.630 --> 01:39:35.470 in love with you, whether they were a big fan 1941 01:39:35.510 --> 01:39:38.579 or they're becoming an even bigger fan today. I think 1942 01:39:38.619 --> 01:39:41.460 it's really just exciting to hear where you've come from, 1943 01:39:41.560 --> 01:39:45.659 that young little girl wanting to get into Hollywood, dealing 1944 01:39:45.699 --> 01:39:50.050 with so much, getting into Hollywood, maybe starting on one 1945 01:39:50.100 --> 01:39:53.590 path and then completely rebranding and getting to grow into 1946 01:39:53.630 --> 01:39:56.449 another version of yourself that is different to the world 1947 01:39:56.489 --> 01:39:58.609 and reintroducing that part of yourself. 1948 01:39:58.310 --> 01:39:58.729 To the world. 1949 01:39:59.029 --> 01:40:02.149 While also dealing with all of the shit that you 1950 01:40:02.350 --> 01:40:04.489 had to deal with as a kid that then you 1951 01:40:04.520 --> 01:40:07.159 have to conquer as an adult. And then meeting the 1952 01:40:07.199 --> 01:40:10.399 love of your life and finding your partner and finding 1953 01:40:10.439 --> 01:40:16.640 your constant and having just so many moments of human 1954 01:40:16.659 --> 01:40:22.229 experiences that I think is really beautiful. And then now 1955 01:40:22.250 --> 01:40:25.329 to see you as an actress, obviously, and you taking 1956 01:40:25.409 --> 01:40:29.060 on this role, it's... It's really, really cool to have 1957 01:40:29.100 --> 01:40:31.619 gotten to know you today because I feel like I 1958 01:40:31.640 --> 01:40:35.000 got to, I hope it wasn't too all over the place, 1959 01:40:35.020 --> 01:40:36.260 but I felt like in a good way we were 1960 01:40:36.340 --> 01:40:41.670 bouncing all around and learning about you as a human being, 1961 01:40:41.850 --> 01:40:44.390 not just Dove Cameron, the person that we have seen 1962 01:40:44.430 --> 01:40:46.590 for so many years online and on TV. And it 1963 01:40:46.630 --> 01:40:50.550 was beyond a pleasure. And I know we went deep 1964 01:40:50.810 --> 01:40:53.449 and I know we both didn't want to cry, but 1965 01:40:53.909 --> 01:40:56.069 we did. And I can't thank you enough for going there. 1966 01:40:56.470 --> 01:41:00.390 Oh, dude, I'm so pleased. I'm obsessed with you. You're 1967 01:41:00.430 --> 01:41:03.090 the second love of my life. Yeah, my best friend's out. 1968 01:41:03.729 --> 01:41:04.430 We're done. 1969 01:41:04.649 --> 01:41:08.409 Fuck you. 15 years of friendship over just like that. No. 1970 01:41:08.689 --> 01:41:09.640 This was really cool. 1971 01:41:09.729 --> 01:41:12.560 No, you're so lovely. You're so smart. I'm really honored. 1972 01:41:12.600 --> 01:41:15.880 I'm also very impressed by you. And I'm not just 1973 01:41:15.899 --> 01:41:19.079 saying that because you're right here, but I don't know, 1974 01:41:19.119 --> 01:41:21.729 you have such a lovely energy. You're clearly so kind. 1975 01:41:21.760 --> 01:41:24.399 You're so invested. And you must spend so much time 1976 01:41:24.460 --> 01:41:27.439 delving into other people's psyches. And not only are you 1977 01:41:27.460 --> 01:41:28.979 so good at it, but you have this like well 1978 01:41:29.020 --> 01:41:32.000 of effervescent energy for it, which is really generous. And 1979 01:41:32.020 --> 01:41:34.340 I don't know. I was really pleased. I really, I 1980 01:41:34.560 --> 01:41:35.300 think you're wonderful. 1981 01:41:35.619 --> 01:41:38.779 Thank you. And I am so excited to continue to 1982 01:41:38.859 --> 01:41:41.399 follow your career and watch what you continue to do. 1983 01:41:41.420 --> 01:41:44.180 And on a personal level, I can't wait to see 1984 01:41:44.899 --> 01:41:47.720 If there's a wedding, whatever you share, I will be following. 1985 01:41:47.739 --> 01:41:49.699 Engage forever, no wedding. Perfect. 1986 01:41:49.939 --> 01:41:51.140 Done. 1987 01:41:51.460 --> 01:41:53.340 Thank you, Dove Cameron, for coming on Color Daddy. 1988 01:41:53.359 --> 01:41:54.020 Thank you.