TRANSCRIPT 🔗
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Welcome to this episode of Breaking Curses with Excellence.
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I'm your host, Christina.
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You know, I want to start this episode a little different than I usually do.
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I want to share a scripture that I came across in my personal Bible reading that really speaks to something that has always been a struggle for me with organized religion, with the society in general, and families.
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For those who say they love God, who say they follow Christ.
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I want you to listen and tell me to this.
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Proverbs 31, verses 8 and 9.
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It says, speak for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute.
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Speak up, judge fairly, defend the rights of the poor and the needy.
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Now, we're going to talk about a question that doesn't get enough attention.
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Keep that scripture in mind for those of you who believe.
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It might make some people uncomfortable, but I feel like it's something that we need to face head on.
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We talk a lot about healing.
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We talk about what survivors of mistreatment, abuse, manipulation can do.
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Much of my work is centered around this.
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It's a very passionate, or I have a lot of passion for that kind of work.
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I want to be a support to those who are doing that work because I've had to do it myself.
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But something that I have always really, really struggled with is the idea that the main responsibility, the main pressure is put on the person who's mistreated, on the victim, and not the perpetrator, not the abuser, not the manipulator.
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Tell people who are abused and manipulated, mistreated, that they need to go to therapy.
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They need to forgive and forget.
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Let it go, right?
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Let it go.
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It's the biggest thing.
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Establish boundaries, rebuild their confidence, and find a way to move forward, which is a lot of internal work and it can be very painful to do.
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But then what do we say to those who caused it?
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I absolutely believe in everything that I just mentioned for a person who's healing.
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Why is there so much emphasis on what the affected person must do?
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So little emphasis on the person who caused the pain, who caused the harm.
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Think about it for a moment.
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We tell survivors to protect their peace, but who challenges the people who deserve that peace?
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And I can guarantee you it's not just one person.
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We tell people to establish boundaries, but who's holding people accountable who never respect boundaries?
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We tell people to walk away from unhealthy relationships, but who's addressing the behavior that made those relationships unhealthy in the first place?
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Who is telling the family member or family members or church people that they shouldn't be causing people to lose their peace?
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That they shouldn't be disturbing others' peace.
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What about families, religious institutions, workplaces, and communities that have known about harmful behavior and chosen to protect their image, the individual's image, rather than protect the people who are being hurt?
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I want to think about something.
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You know, it's one thing, it's one very hard thing to have been mistreated by somebody in power or authority over you.
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Whether it was a parent, it was a bully, it was in school, it was at home, it was by somebody in your religious institution or your religion, that's bad enough.
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And that wears on you enough.
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But to know that people around you have no desire to give you justice, to let you know that you're worth fighting for, that that shouldn't have happened, to stand up to the person who mistreated you and hold them accountable for their actions, not for imaginary actions, not for anything, but what they did, it's a whole nother level of pain.
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Cause the person who has experienced it to question their worth even more.
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When it comes to religion, it begs you to question whether God really cares about you because these people who are okay with you being mistreated, whether as a child, as a wife, right, or even a man, right, are saying that they represent God, that God appointed them to these positions, that they don't care about what happened to you, they don't feel like you deserve justice, they just want you to get over it and move on.
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Now, I want to, for those cases, I want us to go back for a minute to the commandments, because the commandments are brought up for a lot of things, right?
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But in those times, every time someone committed a harmful act towards another, there was to be restitution.
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There was supposed to be just justice that was met out.
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And while Jesus came and died for our sins, if what the Bible says about God not changing is really true, then why do we think the person who causes the pain does not need to do
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anything to make it right, does not need to be held accountable?
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I want you to think about the Sermon on the Mount and some of the things that he said during that time.
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In Matthew specifically, it talks about having a problem with your brother.
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They say we're about talking to that brother face to face, and supplies obviously the sisters too.
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If they don't accept it, right?
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Bring an older man, right?
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Beanning the leaders, maybe of the religion, into it.
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If they do still accept it, they're gonna treat them as in somebody who wasn't a brother, someone without faith.
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So that doesn't say that the person who has done the offense gets to walk away scot-free.
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It doesn't say that you still need to invite them into your space, that you still have to treat them the same as you did before they they committed these things against you.
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And when it comes to children and even spouses who have been betrayed and mistreated, it is not their responsibility to move on and let it go.
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And I want to make that very clear.
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God never expected in Israelite times, nor in these times, okay, even with Jesus dying for our sins, that you are supposed to let person who had done harm to another go scot-free.
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And that there are only certain sins that we actually care about.
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We don't care about the ones that leave victims who distance people from their God.
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Okay.
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If someone's claiming that they're appointed by God, everybody's looking at them as a reflection of God and they mistreat you, and nothing happened to them, nobody cared, that says a lot in a person's mind about how God feels about that.
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It's an irrefutable fact.
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Yes, people who God has appointed are imperfect.
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But if imperfection is what caused this person to mistreat another, then they need to do what it is to their best ability, right, to undo the harm done.
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There needs to be accountability.
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If they don't want to do that, then they need to be removed from that position of authority.
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Because if I can't acknowledge the wrong things that I've done, I'm gonna use myself an example, to have the care of the sheep in my hands.
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I can't do what is right by someone I have wronged, then I don't deserve that position.
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And very naive to think that God won't hold you to the highest, the highest standard when it comes to his people.
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You know, a lot of churches they want to talk about how God's gonna do this and how this person is gonna go this place and that place, and how God hates this and hates that.
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He hates someone who misrepresents his name, who does not treat his people as he wants them to.
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Okay, really get off my mind.
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Soapbox there in families.
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It's very sad to say that there's so much abuse that can happen in families.
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It can be essay, it can be physical, emotional, and because of someone's position or how much people love this person, they may ignore what they know to be true, what they've heard to be true, what the experience of the victim is, just to keep that person around.
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What does that say then to the victim?
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Well, it says that I don't have a voice.
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It doesn't matter what happens to me.
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And those who, in theory, should care about my well-being the most don't.
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It says I'm not safe with the people who have been given the responsibility to look after me and take care of me.
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We make such a big deal about family.
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Oh, family this, family that, family this.
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But many of us have learned throughout the years that family does not mean safety.
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Family does not mean protection.
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Unfortunately, family doesn't even mean we have your best interest.
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They have your best interest in mind.
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And in society.
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We have seen, unfortunately, to many of our horror and disgust, that mistreating having a preference for children in an inappropriate way is not a deal breaker.
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How crazy is that?
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It certainly doesn't go along with the scripture, right?
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The scripture that we just read about speaking up for those who have no voice, right?
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Those who are destitute.
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Anybody who has been a victim of mistreatment in these ways, any of the ways that I've mentioned, are destitute.
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And they need someone in a position of power to speak up for them, or just a position of power in their own lives to speak up for them.
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They deserve that.
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According to the Bible, that is the right thing to do.
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And that isn't the only scripture when other scriptures talk about taking care of the widow and the fatherless child, the lowly person, the poor one.
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Why do
you think that these victims are not included in that?
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Why is it so easy to snooze up to or smoosh up to a person who can speak well, who's eloquent in their words, who looks like they have God's spirit on them, but who is absolutely damaging someone, some people.
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It's also the perpetuation of allowing them to then abuse others.
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You see, when we don't hold people accountable for their actions, they continue to do it.
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They become emboldened.
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If my child, let me give this example, if I'm mistreated by someone in society, in my family, in religion, right, and I keep quiet because I'm told to keep quiet.
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I'm told that I shouldn't talk about things.
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You know, go to therapy, you know, just kind of keep that quiet, keep that over there, right?
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Don't don't mess up their reputation, then that abusive person, as I've said, another of my posts, gets to find another victim who again is told to keep quiet, get help, move on, go on.
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We are responsible.
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Once we know what someone has done, we are responsible for anybody who follows because we told that person to be quiet.
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I have many examples of this in my life.
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Where because people weren't held responsible, held accountable for what they did to me, they didn't got to do it to other people.
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Or they just didn't get held accountable.
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And I can tell you from my own perspective how much that hurts.
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Many things that I went through were very visible.
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They were not hidden.
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They weren't, oh, I never knew they were doing that to you, I never knew they did that to you.
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Well no.
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But nobody cared to hold that person responsible.
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But they did tell me though, that I shouldn't go around talking about certain things.
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That should keep that person out of my mouth.
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In certain environs, environments, I'm still shocked at how long I last.
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Because that had been my story my entire life.
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What are they supposed to talk about?
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I did, I was just looking for sympathy.
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You know, that didn't just happen.
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It happened years ago.
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That doesn't change the pain that a person has been through just gonna happen years ago.
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We deal with the effects of things that happened to us as a child as a child on a daily basis, good or bad.
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They have shaped us.
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So it is the bare minimum somebody could put up with just to make me feel seen and hurt.
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Doing something about it heals part of you.
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That's a part of the healing process that others are responsible for.
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Respecting authority doesn't mean silence, right?
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We know that many people, because of their loosing, because of their hate and their utter disgust with people who love differently, look differently than them, right?
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Practice religion differently than them, but have a different belief system in them.
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They are willing to overlook the horrific things that have happened to thousands, hundreds, if not thousands, of people.
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And we know that because of that, it has spread to thousands.
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Again, because we never hold the person responsible for what they initially did.
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So they're allowed to run free and cause even more horrific things to happen to people.
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We have these systemic norms that are very damaging.
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Some of us have been raised to believe, I know I was, parents were always right, right?
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Religious leaders couldn't be questioned, or you were questioning God, and you could, in theory, be kicked out, at the bare minimum, silenced.
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Older family members deserve respect without questioning obedience.
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We need to ask ourselves, in challenging this, why and when did respect become equivalent or synonymous with unquestioning obedience?
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Respect and accountability can and should coexist.
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A person's title doesn't give them the right to mistreat others.
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What a person has been through also does not give them the right to mistreat others.
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A religious leader should be held accountable.
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There's a lot of responsibility that comes with that.
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The Bible talks about a lot of honor that is supposed to be given to those who are taking the lead, but also talks about how God holds them responsible.
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We as humans should also hold them accountable.
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A supervisor can be held accountable.
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Accountability does not always mean disrespect.
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Okay, I have a question for you, those who listen.
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Have you ever been made to feel guilty for questioning someone who is mistreating you simply because the position they have in your life?
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No, especially in my community, it's big about the parents, right?
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But you have to respect your parents.
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You have to obey your parents.
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Even when you get older, you have the responsibility to take care of your parents.
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But nobody ever questioned or pushed them to work on the way keeping it.
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They were not taking care of their children as they were required to.
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That they were not there for their kids emotionally.
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They mistreated their children.
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Nobody held them accountable during that time.
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But then they want to come to the next generation and say, well, you have all this duty and honor and respect and obligation to them.
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Oh, that pressure should have been put on the parents.
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And then they have kids who willingly would want to do for them.
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If you mistreated your child, you do not have the right to require anything of them.
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Norm number two, keep the peace matters more than confronting wrongdoing.
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I have experience with this, right?
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Oh Christina, don't say anything.
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Oh, Christina, don't do this.
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Don't do that.
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Because we want to keep the peace.
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Oh, the priest's being peaceful now, so don't say anything.
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We give them excuses like, oh, that's just how they are.
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Don't bring up the path.
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You need to forgive and move on.
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Don't embarrass the family.
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What happens in the family stays in the family.
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What happens in this house stays in the house.
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You shouldn't speak against the church.
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And this is a big pit pee for me.
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And I think a huge disservice to God when we say that.
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Because if you have been mistreated in the church, I'm saying this to all of the people who have had similar experiences to me, you have the absolute right to talk about it.
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It is your story, it is your pain.
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And whatever helps you heal and be okay needs to be said.
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They may have had the power, unfortunately, to manipulate you, oppress you, whatever it is.
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They don't get to change the narrative afterwards.
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They don't get to, and this is something that's specifically hard for me to deal with.
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A lot of people who are considered apostates in my previous religion are people who have been abused and who speak out the way against the way that it was handled, how it was swept under the rug, how more people got hurt because those people weren't hold us accountable.
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Remember when I was being told to do the same thing?
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Ignore them, don't even have a conversation with them, don't even look at them.
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How horrible is that that a lost sheep of God who has been mistreated and distanced from God would be treated so despicably.
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Their abuser may still be flourishing within the church.
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Never held accountable, never a warning put out about their behavior, so they're not able to do it to anybody else.
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Let's challenge these ideologies, right?
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These norms.
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Then the last one that I want to talk about is the norm that survivors are responsible for fixing everything.
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It's their responsibility, cover, and we talked about this a little before.
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Forgive and function.
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Then in contrast, we give excuses to the person who's mistreated them.
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Some people get to continue their entire lives without ever being held accountable for the damage they did to people.
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Let's think of the ideal situation.
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Imagine what would change if we invested as much energy into preventing abusive behavior, stopping abusive behavior, and confronting people who cause harm as we do helping people recover from it.
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Imagine how different things would be.
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Importantly, accountability does not always mean punishment.
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It can include acknowledging the harm, accepting consequences, changing behavior, maybe not having access to certain demographics until you can get your stuff together, right?
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You don't get to have a position of authority, this behavior under control.
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You don't get access to children until you can get this behavior under control.
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And what I mean is not only the law, but societally, morally and religiously, holding these people accountable.
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Because with the law, the law it is a source of justice, but things have to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.
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When sometimes we know it happened.
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We've seen things, we know things.
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And so because somebody didn't bring somebody up on charges, they weren't able to prosecute, you
say, oh well, right?
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This prevents repeated, repeated harm being done.
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Isn't that more important than telling somebody how to recover from it?
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Just logically, I want you to think about that.
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Accountability without meaningful behavior change isn't complete.
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So here's three ways that I want to give you in conclusion that you, if you have a position of power, can challenge these norms.
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Or even if you're just the individual who has seen or knows someone who is experiencing or has experienced mistreatment of any sort.
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Number one, change and challenge harmful language and beliefs.
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We don't have to wait till somebody has experienced severe treatment to begin changing our communities, normalizing what we know is harmful.
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For example, stop saying that's just how that person is.
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Respond.
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If you hear this, respond.
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But does that make the behavior acceptable?
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When somebody says you need to respect your elders, you can respond.
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I agree that respect is important, but shouldn't be respect be mutual.
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When somebody says, just forgive them and move on, to someone else or to you, what has that person done to take responsibility for happen for what happened?
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These aren't confrontational questions, they are questions.
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Breaks the mode, the idea that, well, you should just get over it.
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You should move on.
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When it's safe, challenge these norms.
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Remember, I said when it's safe, you don't have to argue, you don't have to embarrass anyone.
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Sometimes it does take strength and a willingness to stand toast in order to stand up to these type of norms.
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Action two.
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Let's stop rewarding harmful behavior with silence and protection.
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This one's uncomfortable.
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I know it is.
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It's something that my family still struggles with.
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Because sometimes the person causing the harm is someone we love.
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Plain and simple.
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Sometimes it's a parent, sometimes it's someone who's been close to the family for many years.
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Sometimes it's a religious leader we admire.
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Sometimes it's a friend, co-worker, or supervisor, community member that is well respected.
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So we
have to ask ourselves: does my relationship with this person prevent me from acknowledging the harm they are causing?
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Ultimately doing damage to them, the people they have hurt.
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It helps no one to be able to continue to perpetuate negative ways.
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They're not happier because they get to mistreat other people.
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Usually it's because they are miserable inside.
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So push them to get help.
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Push them to heal.
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Push them to change their habits.
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When somebody tells you they've experienced something negative, right?
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Stop immediately questioning them.
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Defending the person who's accused.
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Sometimes we don't even know them, but we just we just want to for some reason want to defend people.
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Or encouraging silence.
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Listen carefully.
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Acknowledge what the person has gone through and that they didn't deserve it.
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We can take concerns seriously without prejudging or disputing facts.
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Refuse to participate in retaliation or efforts to cover up wrongdoing simply for the reputation of the person who mistreated.
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I want to make a clear distinction here between supporting accountability and publicly confronting every person accused of causing harm.
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In cases involving abuse, retaliation, or violence, safety and appropriate professional intervention must come first.
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I want to give you a practical challenge too.
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I've given a couple, but I want to give a couple more.
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Ask yourself these questions.
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I ever excuse someone's hurtful behavior because of who they were?
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Have I ever encouraged someone to stay silent because speaking up would make others feel uncomfortable?
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If I witness someone being mistreated tomorrow, what safe and constructive action would I take?
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You can love someone and refuse to ignore the pain and harm they cause.
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Okay?
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Now let's go a step further.
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Let's model the accountability you want to see.
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We don't hold others accountable while refusing to hold ourselves accountable.
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We all have the capacity to hurt people.
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It's not just hurt people.
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Anybody has a capacity, sometimes unintentionally.
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Sometimes we're repeating.
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Behavior that we watched continually as we learned up something.
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We think we're doing better than what we saw.
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And we may very well, but we're still doing damage.
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Sometimes we haven't examined our own beliefs.
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So, what does accountability look like in everyday life?
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It's stopping that narrative that her people choose to hurt people by not getting help, by not acknowledging what they experienced has caused them to do to others.
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There's a lot of avenues in which we can get help.
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There's listening to podcasts, there's therapy, right?
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Clinical therapy, there's group therapy, there's books, there's counselors.
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It means personally, on a personal level, being able to hear that hurt me without immediately starting the defense.
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Well, that wasn't my intention.
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I'm guilty of that.
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I'm not talking to just you, I'm talking to myself too.
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It means apologizing without adding excuses.
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Whoo, that's wrong, right?
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Because that's not easy to do.
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It means recognizing when we need professional help to address harmful patterns.
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Not only are we asking for professional help, we're getting professional support as well.
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People who can handle with what caused us to be this way.
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Rewind how we think of ourselves, then how we think of others.
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So this week, I challenge you to ask someone you trust.
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Is there anything I do that makes it difficult for you to feel hurt, respected, or comfortable being honest with me?
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Listen quietly, quietly, immediately defend yourself.
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Consider what they are telling you, and then whether that behavior deserves meaningful change from you.
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A message for people in leadership.
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I want you to ask yourself.
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Are people under my leadership safe enough to tell me the truth?
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Whether someone leaves a household, religious organization, business, classroom, or community, these question matters.
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You could expand on these ideas, right?
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Your position gives you responsibility, not immunity.
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Being a parent doesn't mean you're automatically right.
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Being a religious leader doesn't make make you beyond questioning.
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Being executive doesn't make you someone make someone else's valid concerns less important.
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Your reaction to criticism reveals something huge about your leadership.
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Do you become defensive?
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Do you retaliate?
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Do you dismiss concerns?
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Or do you care to create a space for people to speak openly?
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This is how we get the needle moving in the right direction.
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I want to leave you with this final thought.
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It will take all of us to really combat these social norms that I've mentioned today, each one of us personally.
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So we may have to challenge our own beliefs, how we see ourselves.
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Sometimes we ignore other people's concerns and what they've been through because we ignore our own.
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So it's going to take a very intentional process to combat this in our society at all the different levels.
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But I want you to be intentional.
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I want you to use some of the practical things that I gave you.
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Get the help you need if you are the one perpetuating the harm.
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Love one each other.
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Protect those, as the scripture says, who are destitute.
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Speak up for them and judge fairly.
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Until next time, keep breaking those generational curses.
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Excellence.
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Thanks for listening.