Full Transcript for Pit Stop: Life at Speed, Hurley Haywood

but I don't have any license. 66 00:03:44,779 --> 00:03:46,549 He said, well, don't worry about the license. 67 00:03:46,549 --> 00:03:47,609 You'll get it through NASCAR. 68 00:03:47,839 --> 00:03:51,700 Back then, it was simply, you mailed your money in and you got a NASCAR license. 69 00:03:51,820 --> 00:03:57,049 And once I had the NASCAR license, I applied to the FIA and got an FIA license. 70 00:03:57,049 --> 00:03:59,369 And then as long as I had my FIA license, I could race here. 71 00:03:59,380 --> 00:04:01,190 So I arrived in Watkins Glen. 72 00:04:01,529 --> 00:04:05,220 Really, I mean, this is one of my first races, and the SCCA people 73 00:04:05,220 --> 00:04:06,540 here were just having a fit. 74 00:04:06,859 --> 00:04:08,160 Peter said, don't worry about it. 75 00:04:08,469 --> 00:04:11,329 He's fine, and I'll take full responsibility for him. 76 00:04:11,329 --> 00:04:15,030 And we won the race, and we've been winning races at the Glen ever since. 77 00:04:15,190 --> 00:04:17,899 Then I went off into the military. 78 00:04:17,899 --> 00:04:20,740 I went to Vietnam at the end of 1969. 79 00:04:20,820 --> 00:04:23,050 I was over there for a little over a year. 80 00:04:23,425 --> 00:04:29,285 Came back in 71, and then in 71, Peter and I decided that we would 81 00:04:29,285 --> 00:04:31,745 run for the entire IMSA championship. 82 00:04:31,805 --> 00:04:33,275 That was the first year of IMSA. 83 00:04:33,545 --> 00:04:36,775 We had a 914 6, which I actually owned. 84 00:04:36,775 --> 00:04:39,784 And the deal was, I owned the car, and then Peter would do all of the 85 00:04:39,944 --> 00:04:43,005 preparation and end of the races, and I would co drive with him. 86 00:04:43,005 --> 00:04:44,695 He paid me to drive with him. 87 00:04:44,950 --> 00:04:46,020 That was the giant killer. 88 00:04:46,020 --> 00:04:48,330 We were racing in the 2. 89 00:04:48,540 --> 00:04:51,760 5 liter class that was under, and then there was over, 90 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:52,960 which was the big Corvettes. 91 00:04:53,170 --> 00:04:56,599 And we were so good that we were beating the Corvettes on a pretty regular basis. 92 00:04:56,599 --> 00:05:00,060 And Peter and I co won the, uh, IMSA championship in 71. 93 00:05:00,389 --> 00:05:04,469 And then in 72, then we went over, we switched to 9 11. 94 00:05:04,469 --> 00:05:07,750 Peter was racing in the Can Am back then, in 72. 95 00:05:07,780 --> 00:05:11,594 So he basically gave me the responsibility of running the race. 96 00:05:11,775 --> 00:05:14,475 the shorter races to try to win the championship. 97 00:05:14,475 --> 00:05:19,164 So I won the championship outright in 72, driving a 911. 98 00:05:19,165 --> 00:05:22,025 At that period of time, Super V was coming along. 99 00:05:22,115 --> 00:05:24,164 Uh, was that anything you were interested in? 100 00:05:24,165 --> 00:05:26,935 Well, I was really not targeting. 101 00:05:28,260 --> 00:05:33,900 But Fred Opr asked me if I would drive one of his cars

out in California, and 102 00:05:33,900 --> 00:05:35,940 I said sure, I'd love the opportunity. 103 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:41,049 I don't really remember the years, but it was mid 70s I think, and I promptly 104 00:05:41,049 --> 00:05:42,859 went out and won a couple races. 105 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:47,340 But there wasn't a budget to continue on, so I really didn't explore that 106 00:05:47,460 --> 00:05:49,340 much more than just a couple races. 107 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,344 But the couple races I did run, I would either won them or missed them. 108 00:05:54,025 --> 00:05:56,854 Can you tell us a little bit about your jump into Can Am? 109 00:05:56,905 --> 00:05:58,974 That's a big jump from a 911. 110 00:05:59,734 --> 00:06:03,664 Well, Peter, of course, had the Can Am car in 1972. 111 00:06:03,974 --> 00:06:07,954 And he had a couple wrecks and he didn't really enjoy it. 112 00:06:08,004 --> 00:06:12,574 So he came to me and he said, Would you like to run the Can Am series? 113 00:06:12,604 --> 00:06:14,929 He said, I think you have the ability to run it. 114 00:06:15,119 --> 00:06:19,509 In hindsight, I really had very little years of racing 115 00:06:19,549 --> 00:06:21,719 to qualify me to race in 917. 116 00:06:22,300 --> 00:06:26,569 I think it was just a crafty way of him to get somebody to sell us this car to. 117 00:06:26,569 --> 00:06:30,659 So, the first three race cars that Brumos had were my cars. 118 00:06:30,750 --> 00:06:34,729 The 914 I owned, the 911 that we raced in 72 I owned. 119 00:06:35,020 --> 00:06:38,309 And this 917 that I raced in 1973, I own. 120 00:06:38,530 --> 00:06:43,110 So those are the only three race cars that I've owned, and Brumos has all 121 00:06:43,110 --> 00:06:44,710 those cars back in our collection. 122 00:06:44,969 --> 00:06:50,610 To get back to your point, I accepted that role, and was really excited about 123 00:06:50,610 --> 00:06:53,289 it, and went into it just as a total. 124 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,570 as far as that kind of performance in that kind of a car. 125 00:06:57,570 --> 00:06:59,330 This was a car that had huge horsepower. 126 00:06:59,740 --> 00:07:03,350 You know, the 911s had, at that point, under 300 horsepower. 127 00:07:03,350 --> 00:07:07,010 I was jumping into a car that had 1, 100 horsepower. 128 00:07:07,170 --> 00:07:10,309 So there was a little bit of a transition period that was 129 00:07:10,309 --> 00:07:12,100 a pretty steep learning curve. 130 00:07:12,149 --> 00:07:15,520 But all the guys really helped me a lot. 131 00:07:15,535 --> 00:07:17,125 In adapting to those cars. 132 00:07:17,125 --> 00:07:21,235 I remember Mark Donahue really took me under his wing, and Mark was 133 00:07:21,235 --> 00:07:25,315 the most influential person that had the most direct effect on how 134 00:07:25,315 --> 00:07:27,355 I was able to adapt to those cars. 135 00:07:27,445 --> 00:07:31,795 So he and the Penske crew were very helpful in our setup and the 136 00:07:31,795 -->

00:07:34,945 philosophy and the sort of how you drive these cars and what. 137 00:07:35,540 --> 00:07:36,590 And it was a lot of fun. 138 00:07:36,590 --> 00:07:37,790 I was third in the championship. 139 00:07:37,790 --> 00:07:40,540 I got beaten by Mark, George Fulmer, and then me. 140 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:44,409 So, that was pretty good when you had guys like Jody Schechter and David Hobbs 141 00:07:44,409 --> 00:07:48,539 and all the rest of the guys that were racing against you to, you know, have your 142 00:07:48,539 --> 00:07:50,539 rookie year come out third was not so bad. 143 00:07:50,539 --> 00:07:57,240 So, I think that that exposure also gave a little, uh, bit of a foundation to how 144 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:01,270 I was able to adapt to different race cars that Porsche was watching at that. 145 00:08:01,750 --> 00:08:05,500 Because I think that they liked the idea of having an American that they could, 146 00:08:05,529 --> 00:08:08,370 you know, switch back and forth in different programs that they were running. 147 00:08:08,609 --> 00:08:11,150 Somebody that they could feel comfortable with and trust. 148 00:08:11,430 --> 00:08:15,480 Just to go back to the Can Am car, they even had an adjustable wheelbase on them? 149 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:16,089 No. 150 00:08:16,090 --> 00:08:16,960 Do I remember that? 151 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:17,700 Well, no. 152 00:08:17,770 --> 00:08:19,000 They did not have an adjustable. 153 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:23,930 The 917 10, which is what I had, was a short wheelbase car when the 154 00:08:23,940 --> 00:08:27,800 30, and Donahue ran that car in 72. 155 00:08:28,150 --> 00:08:33,019 And in 73, Porsche made the 917 30, which was exclusive to Penske. 156 00:08:33,049 --> 00:08:36,340 And that car put everybody else on the trailer because that was a long wheelbase 157 00:08:36,370 --> 00:08:38,669 car, had a different aero package on it. 158 00:08:38,699 --> 00:08:40,140 They were tubular construction. 159 00:08:40,210 --> 00:08:40,500 Mm hmm. 160 00:08:40,570 --> 00:08:41,059 Tubes. 161 00:08:41,250 --> 00:08:45,885 When I look at my car now, You know, I was just a stupid young kid to drive that 162 00:08:45,885 --> 00:08:49,535 car as fast as we were doing it, because if you ever had a frontal impact with 163 00:08:49,535 --> 00:08:51,905 one of those cars, it was gonna hurt. 164 00:08:51,935 --> 00:08:53,885 There wasn't a lot of substance up there. 165 00:08:54,175 --> 00:08:57,725 You sat between two 50 gallon tanks of gasoline. 166 00:08:58,615 --> 00:09:02,765 It was, it was a pretty hairy ride, as I remember it. 167 00:09:02,834 --> 00:09:04,505 As I said, I've still got that car. 168 00:09:04,865 --> 00:09:09,620 And, uh, We race it occasionally and I am very respectful for that car. 169 00:09:09,620 --> 00:09:13,079 You know, it's just a wonderful piece of machinery in it. 170 00:09:13,969 --> 00:09:17,149 But it's also pretty frightening if you let it get away from you. 171 00:09:17,149

--> 00:09:22,399 You explained or mentioned that Peter shifted to BMW for one or two seasons. 172 00:09:22,410 --> 00:09:23,669 Is that a political thing? 173 00:09:23,689 --> 00:09:25,060 Yeah, it was totally political. 174 00:09:25,079 --> 00:09:27,824 Peter was used to getting What he wanted. 175 00:09:27,915 --> 00:09:29,564 Porsche wouldn't give him what he wanted. 176 00:09:29,685 --> 00:09:33,555 And he said, well, if you don't gimme what I want, I'm gonna go race for BMW. 177 00:09:33,885 --> 00:09:35,265 And he did. 178 00:09:35,564 --> 00:09:39,735 During the time that he was racing him for BMWI was racing for VA polock 179 00:09:39,854 --> 00:09:41,994 in the transient with the 9 3 4. 180 00:09:42,375 --> 00:09:47,375 Peter was, you know, he was went races with the BMW and then that's when the 181 00:09:47,375 --> 00:09:53,195 factory came over with Ook and Ronnie Peterson and Zi was driving for. 182 00:09:53,555 --> 00:09:57,594 So they, they were fairly serious and they had their, uh, headquarters 183 00:09:57,594 --> 00:09:59,254 here in Hueytown, Alabama. 184 00:09:59,425 --> 00:10:01,214 That's where the factory team was based. 185 00:10:01,644 --> 00:10:03,434 And they ran a really stout program. 186 00:10:03,435 --> 00:10:06,894 And then in 78, Peter went back to Porsche. 187 00:10:07,164 --> 00:10:10,664 Because, you know, Porsche then realized how big of a threat 188 00:10:10,664 --> 00:10:12,415 the BMW was to their dominance. 189 00:10:12,444 --> 00:10:13,454 And they wanted Peter back. 190 00:10:13,454 --> 00:10:15,505 So that was just one short year. 191 00:10:15,895 --> 00:10:18,425 You know, Peter was passed away in 1981. 192 00:10:19,105 --> 00:10:23,015 And then in 1983, I had a very serious accident. 193 00:10:23,015 --> 00:10:24,605 I had won Le Mans in 83. 194 00:10:24,765 --> 00:10:29,065 I came back, I was up in most sport and had a bad accident, broke my leg. 195 00:10:29,255 --> 00:10:30,845 And it was a serious break. 196 00:10:30,985 --> 00:10:35,305 And basically the bottom line was that I did not have the strength to push 197 00:10:35,344 --> 00:10:37,484 the clutch down on a Porsche back then. 198 00:10:37,615 --> 00:10:41,375 That was just on the cusp of when the 962s were coming. 199 00:10:41,475 --> 00:10:48,175 I had won Le Mans in 956, which is the predecessor of the 962, but that car 200 00:10:48,175 --> 00:10:52,644 was not allowed to race in IMSA until the wheelbase was extended so the wheels 201 00:10:52,645 --> 00:10:54,305 would be behind the front center line. 202 00:10:54,655 --> 00:10:59,405 So basically I was out of luck and just said, well, you know, I'm going to have 203 00:10:59,414 --> 00:11:03,574 to sit it out until my leg gets back together again, which was two years. 204 00:11:03,744 --> 00:11:07,714 And I got a call from Tullius and he said, in our cars you don't 205 00:11:07,714 --> 00:11:09,214 have to push the clutch down. 206 00:11:09,254 --> 00:11:10,029 He said, I'd like to continue. 207 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:11,490 Have you come drive for our team? 208 00:11:11,630 --> 00:11:13,810 That relationship lasted five years. 209 00:11:13,810 --> 00:11:18,000 I drove with the Jags for two years or three years, and then I drove 210 00:11:18,130 --> 00:11:20,010 for him with the Audi program. 211 00:11:20,579 --> 00:11:21,720 And he was a great guy. 212 00:11:21,950 --> 00:11:25,319 A lot of people didn't like Bob, but I liked him. 213 00:11:25,329 --> 00:11:27,110 He and I never had a crossword. 214 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,270 I was always kind of a little rebellious. 215 00:11:29,660 --> 00:11:32,750 You know, you had to do the uniform thing on that team. 216 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,890 You had to be dressed in a uniform every time, and Bob was very Explicit 217 00:11:36,910 --> 00:11:41,760 about, you know, white shoes, white socks, white shorts, green belt, gold 218 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:46,189 army type style belt buckle, white shirt, you know, the whole nine yards. 219 00:11:46,189 --> 00:11:50,210 And I would always have one thing that was not quite up to team standard. 220 00:11:50,220 --> 00:11:53,720 Different colored belts or a slightly different shade of sock 221 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:54,790 or, you know, something like that. 222 00:11:54,870 --> 00:11:56,570 And he never said it. 223 00:11:56,815 --> 00:11:59,015 I knew he saw it, but he never said anything. 224 00:11:59,245 --> 00:12:01,775 It was a nice relationship with him, and I really liked the 225 00:12:01,775 --> 00:12:03,305 team, and I liked the discipline. 226 00:12:03,305 --> 00:12:07,125 And, you know, Bob was one of the first guys that really brought 227 00:12:07,225 --> 00:12:10,685 professionalism up to a standard that's now enjoyed by everybody. 228 00:12:10,705 --> 00:12:15,715 He walked down Pit Lane in the Grand Am ranks, or IMSA, or whatever it is, and 229 00:12:15,795 --> 00:12:20,865 the team and the philosophy that you have with these teams, uniforms, detail, 230 00:12:20,995 --> 00:12:23,024 preparation, all was started by Bob. 231 00:12:23,305 --> 00:12:26,655 To some extent, Peter and Al Hobart were part of that, but 232 00:12:26,925 --> 00:12:31,435 Bob truly has really brought that discipline to sports car racing. 233 00:12:31,515 --> 00:12:33,484 And the preparation there was always excellent. 234 00:12:33,484 --> 00:12:36,724 I mean, I know one of his mechanics used to work on Air Force One. 235 00:12:36,814 --> 00:12:38,324 So, that's got to be second to none. 236 00:12:38,775 --> 00:12:41,795 Talk a little bit about some of the prototype cars and 237 00:12:41,845 --> 00:12:43,684 their differences, I guess. 238 00:12:43,884 --> 00:12:45,164 The things that stood out about them. 239 00:12:45,545 --> 00:12:46,765 You're talking about GTP? 240 00:12:46,945 --> 00:12:47,295 Yeah. 241 00:12:48,814 --> 00:12:52,325 The GTP car is basically, you know, I drove the Jaguars. 242 00:12:52,475 --> 00:12:54,735 Yeah, that had the

Hewlin, is that what made the shifting? 243 00:12:54,814 --> 00:12:56,104 Yeah, it had a Hewlin gearbox. 244 00:12:56,104 --> 00:12:57,835 Just rev it up and And shift. 245 00:12:57,855 --> 00:13:00,614 Basically the same principles as our Daytona prototypes. 246 00:13:00,855 --> 00:13:02,634 It's a non synchromeshed gearbox. 247 00:13:02,794 --> 00:13:07,055 You had that car, you had the 962, which was a fantastic car. 248 00:13:07,365 --> 00:13:08,444 You had the Ford Puma. 249 00:13:08,445 --> 00:13:10,925 The Probe, which I drove on a couple of occasions. 250 00:13:11,215 --> 00:13:15,845 The Nissan, which I drove on a couple of occasions, which was like a nightmare 251 00:13:15,995 --> 00:13:18,065 before it went on to Goodyear tires. 252 00:13:18,275 --> 00:13:24,715 But of those cars, the 962 was the Cadillac of that genre of cars. 253 00:13:24,744 --> 00:13:29,025 It was very easy to drive it, that's why so many people were able to drive it. 254 00:13:29,025 --> 00:13:31,885 It was a very customer friendly car, up to a point. 255 00:13:32,190 --> 00:13:36,120 And once it got to that point, then the real pros were able to shine 256 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:37,480 and bring it to the next level. 257 00:13:37,550 --> 00:13:40,879 Most of the guys that had those cars had ran private teams. 258 00:13:40,879 --> 00:13:46,100 There was an owner, like a Bruce Lovin or a Bob Aiken or Rob Dyson, 259 00:13:46,339 --> 00:13:47,330 you know, somebody like that. 260 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,060 who drove the car, was relatively competitive, and then they would 261 00:13:51,070 --> 00:13:54,230 hand it over to their pro driver, and the pro drivers would race together. 262 00:13:54,290 --> 00:13:58,510 So it worked out, it was a really nice way that it all worked out, similar to what 263 00:13:58,510 --> 00:14:01,070 the initial concept was with the Grand Am. 264 00:14:01,359 --> 00:14:05,474 And with the Daytona prototype, is you get an owner, and a pro guy, and Everything 265 00:14:05,474 --> 00:14:10,165 would go great, but the thing that sort of threw that whole thing in the waste 266 00:14:10,165 --> 00:14:15,094 basket was when Brian Redmond brought Carl Haas, when Carl Haas was thinking about 267 00:14:15,104 --> 00:14:19,525 building a car and Carl said, well, he said, I know how we can win all the races. 268 00:14:19,744 --> 00:14:21,915 And Brian said, well, how do we do that? 269 00:14:21,915 --> 00:14:24,785 And Carl said, well, I'll hire two professional drivers. 270 00:14:25,084 --> 00:14:26,084 That was the end of that. 271 00:14:26,214 --> 00:14:29,435 So what happened at that point was that the guys that were really. 272 00:14:29,604 --> 00:14:32,645 Had a lot of money, had two cars, one a pro car and one an 273 00:14:32,665 --> 00:14:33,944 amateur car that they could drive. 274 00:14:33,944 --> 00:14:37,724 So, it all worked itself out and it was fantastic racing. 275 00:14:37,724 --> 00:14:41,905 That was probably an era that will never be duplicated again because 276 00:14:41,905 --> 00:14:46,094 of the incredible exposure that Campbell Cigarettes gave us with R. 277 00:14:46,094 --> 00:14:46,274 J. 278 00:14:46,275 --> 00:14:46,685 Reynolds. 279 00:14:46,834 --> 00:14:50,754 The individual manufacturers were in it and each one of those 280 00:14:50,754 --> 00:14:53,844 individual manufacturers were spending tremendous amounts of money 281 00:14:53,844 --> 00:14:55,714 supporting teams in that series. 282 00:14:56,035 --> 00:14:58,324 We are trying to build that back up. 283 00:14:58,505 --> 00:14:59,965 with the Daytona prototypes. 284 00:15:00,145 --> 00:15:02,705 It's beginning to work for Grand Am because more and more people are 285 00:15:02,825 --> 00:15:05,895 becoming interested in these cars and they're getting more sponsors 286 00:15:05,895 --> 00:15:08,665 involved, and when the sponsors get involved then it's going to be good 287 00:15:08,665 --> 00:15:11,984 for everybody because everybody's going to get a spin off of what they do. 288 00:15:11,984 --> 00:15:16,554 So, it's marching its way back because sports car racing has been so fragmented 289 00:15:16,654 --> 00:15:22,715 in the last ten years and it's Fantastic that the Grand Am and the France family 290 00:15:22,765 --> 00:15:27,585 have got this desire to see sports car racing work in this country and work, not 291 00:15:27,645 --> 00:15:32,694 just the short term, but work on the long term with a real intelligent, well thought 292 00:15:32,694 --> 00:15:36,324 out business plan where people can say, okay, this is what we're going to do. 293 00:15:36,465 --> 00:15:40,215 This is the graph line of acceleration that these cars are going to have 294 00:15:40,365 --> 00:15:44,355 and it's not going to change for five years or for X number of years. 295 00:15:44,655 --> 00:15:47,985 So people are confident in spending the money knowing that they're not going 296 00:15:47,985 --> 00:15:51,615 to have to spend the same kind of money the next year to have a better piece. 297 00:15:51,625 --> 00:15:53,105 The rules remain stabilized. 298 00:15:53,115 --> 00:15:56,185 So that's an important consideration to have. 299 00:15:56,555 --> 00:16:00,555 Another thing that sort of dovetails off that kind of thinking is that 300 00:16:00,675 --> 00:16:04,970 when I raced in their 70s and 80s, You know, the racing was a hugely 301 00:16:05,270 --> 00:16:07,660 important development scale for Porsche. 302 00:16:07,690 --> 00:16:10,940 They used what they learned on the racetrack in their street cars. 303 00:16:11,190 --> 00:16:13,470 So when they wanted to try something, they'd try it on the race car. 304 00:16:13,470 --> 00:16:16,019 If it worked on the race car in a racing situation, then 305 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:17,139 it would work on a street car. 306 00:16:17,370 --> 00:16:22,709 Nowadays, that isn't really done anymore, because a computer analysis does that 307 00:16:23,099 --> 00:16:25,010 much more efficiently

than a race car can. 308 00:16:25,170 --> 00:16:28,060 So what does racing become now, in the eyes of the company? 309 00:16:28,060 --> 00:16:32,430 It becomes How you market what you're doing in racing 310 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:33,790 to help you sell automobiles. 311 00:16:34,300 --> 00:16:41,410 So, that's something that the Grand Am guys are doing well because it's allowing 312 00:16:41,479 --> 00:16:47,344 individual teams to come into it with, uh, Lexus motors, Ferrari motors, Porsche 313 00:16:47,344 --> 00:16:51,055 motors, Ford motors, Chevrolet motors, Pontiac motors, all these different 314 00:16:51,194 --> 00:16:55,435 combinations, and not have to spend tens of millions, hundreds of millions. 315 00:16:55,574 --> 00:16:59,874 In Audi's case, I mean, Audi's spending just unbelievable amounts of money with 316 00:16:59,884 --> 00:17:02,224 these prototypes, you know, for what? 317 00:17:02,395 --> 00:17:04,785 You look at it, it's kind of stupid. 318 00:17:05,005 --> 00:17:08,435 And if you had to defend that position, which is one of the reasons 319 00:17:08,435 --> 00:17:12,754 why Porsche's done it, is because it simply does not make sense. 320 00:17:13,129 --> 00:17:15,369 financial sense to get in it at this level. 321 00:17:15,770 --> 00:17:20,099 When you can do something like Grand Am and Daytona prototypes, which will win the 322 00:17:20,099 --> 00:17:23,310 races overall for 10 cents on the dollar. 323 00:17:23,490 --> 00:17:26,729 And there's, there's a limited number of chassis builders for it. 324 00:17:26,740 --> 00:17:29,399 So that also adds to the savings, sir. 325 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:29,700 Yep. 326 00:17:29,829 --> 00:17:35,799 And you, your manufacturers come into it and they sell one car and that car 327 00:17:35,799 --> 00:17:40,040 is going to be, X number of dollars and the 10th car that they sell is going to 328 00:17:40,050 --> 00:17:44,060 be the same amount of money, but they're able to amortize that development cost 329 00:17:44,060 --> 00:17:47,390 over 10 car or 15 car, 20 car program. 330 00:17:47,410 --> 00:17:48,970 And same thing with the engines. 331 00:17:48,970 --> 00:17:53,959 The engines are basically submitted to Grand Am their Grand Am looks at it. 332 00:17:53,989 --> 00:17:55,630 They say, okay, yeah, this is good. 333 00:17:55,649 --> 00:17:56,689 No, this is not good. 334 00:17:56,739 --> 00:18:00,440 And so everybody's pretty confident that the engine formulas will remain. 335 00:18:00,715 --> 00:18:04,764 relatively equal regardless of what power plant you're using. 336 00:18:04,804 --> 00:18:06,724 With our team, with Brumhaus, we use a 3. 337 00:18:06,725 --> 00:18:08,445 6 liter Porsche motor. 338 00:18:08,445 --> 00:18:10,814 It's the smallest motor in the whole field. 339 00:18:10,905 --> 00:18:15,475 We're down on torque, which helps you get from point A to point B quickly. 340 00:18:15,584 --> 00:18:19,145 Our horsepower is equal to everybody else's, but it's the torque that hurts us. 341 00:18:19,145 --> 00:18:22,814 But you know, that's part of our package because we're able 342 00:18:22,814 --> 00:18:24,534 to weigh a little bit less and. 343 00:18:24,830 --> 00:18:28,310 Certainly if we need more there, we have to negotiate with it, but the 344 00:18:28,330 --> 00:18:32,399 negotiation is not a black and white, there's always room for adjustment. 345 00:18:32,659 --> 00:18:35,860 Early you mentioned the Audi, tell us about that four wheel drive Audi car, 346 00:18:35,860 --> 00:18:39,169 I know you had one race here that, did you do the whole race yourself? 347 00:18:39,379 --> 00:18:45,225 Yeah, I, I got into, uh, Scott Goodyear was, uh, Scott was new to the team. 348 00:18:45,475 --> 00:18:48,345 I was having a great battle and just didn't want to give it up 349 00:18:48,554 --> 00:18:50,235 at the pit stop, so I stayed in. 350 00:18:50,425 --> 00:18:55,534 And the Audi, that was really the first time that I had been with a 351 00:18:55,534 --> 00:18:57,405 factory team that was excessive. 352 00:18:57,675 --> 00:18:59,475 Anything that we wanted, we could have. 353 00:18:59,544 --> 00:19:03,405 I mean, if I said, hey guys, you know, I want to have wood paneling on the 354 00:19:03,415 --> 00:19:06,445 dashboard, I mean, the next race I'd have wood paneling on the dashboard. 355 00:19:06,655 --> 00:19:08,515 It was like a driver's dream. 356 00:19:08,625 --> 00:19:11,164 And the cars themselves were absolutely fantastic. 357 00:19:11,165 --> 00:19:16,335 I mean, just, it was just a really nice atmosphere to be able to work 358 00:19:16,365 --> 00:19:20,675 in that kind of situation where anything you wanted was possible. 359 00:19:21,135 --> 00:19:22,485 Now, was that Tullius? 360 00:19:22,485 --> 00:19:23,264 That was Tullius. 361 00:19:23,295 --> 00:19:24,165 Ran that program. 362 00:19:24,455 --> 00:19:26,295 And we mentioned marketing a little while ago. 363 00:19:26,295 --> 00:19:31,125 They're still using video from those days to market the Audi all wheel drive now. 364 00:19:31,125 --> 00:19:33,475 So, it really stood out in history, I think. 365 00:19:33,875 --> 00:19:36,945 We came into those things with this funny looking sedan, and everybody was 366 00:19:36,955 --> 00:19:38,695 laughing at us until our first race. 367 00:19:38,695 --> 00:19:40,424 We just hammered everybody. 368 00:19:41,134 --> 00:19:46,165 You know, the all wheel drive is certainly something that has found its way into lots 369 00:19:46,165 --> 00:19:48,125 of different types of production cars now. 370 00:19:48,155 --> 00:19:51,304 It's just as a benefit that is, um, well worth it. 371 00:19:52,614 --> 00:19:55,185 and Audi was the one that kind of pioneered that system. 372 00:19:55,384 --> 00:19:57,745 In a race car, it was just phenomenal. 373 00:19:57,774 --> 00:19:59,114 That's why they basically banned it. 374 00:19:59,115 --> 00:20:01,495 You don't see four wheel drive cars anymore. 375 00:20:01,715 --> 00:20:03,065 We

mentioned Le Mans quite a bit. 376 00:20:03,065 --> 00:20:05,725 Could we recap your Le Mans victories? 377 00:20:06,165 --> 00:20:08,594 Well, Le Mans, I've had a good record at Le Mans. 378 00:20:08,874 --> 00:20:11,264 And of course, every time I've been to Le Mans, I've been on a 379 00:20:11,264 --> 00:20:14,134 factory team, which helps immensely. 380 00:20:14,264 --> 00:20:16,024 So my finishing record there is good. 381 00:20:16,194 --> 00:20:17,294 Got three wins there. 382 00:20:17,544 --> 00:20:22,764 People always want to compare Daytona, and other than the length 383 00:20:22,764 --> 00:20:23,995 of the race, there is no comparison. 384 00:20:24,575 --> 00:20:28,135 Daytona is a much more difficult race to win, and to drive in. 385 00:20:28,514 --> 00:20:31,565 For one thing, you've got 12 hours of darkness at Daytona. 386 00:20:31,854 --> 00:20:35,274 You only have maybe 5 hours of darkness at Le Mans, because 387 00:20:35,274 --> 00:20:36,975 it gets dark there so late. 388 00:20:37,195 --> 00:20:41,524 In Europe, The driving is much more disciplined. 389 00:20:41,745 --> 00:20:44,305 The guys that are driving the slow cars know they're driving the slow 390 00:20:44,305 --> 00:20:45,524 cars and stay the hell out of the way. 391 00:20:46,395 --> 00:20:48,174 It's a very, very cut and dry. 392 00:20:48,174 --> 00:20:50,155 If you're a slow car, you stay on the left. 393 00:20:50,155 --> 00:20:51,804 If you're a fast car, you go on the right. 394 00:20:52,145 --> 00:20:56,484 Everybody's looking constantly in their rearview mirrors because back in 395 00:20:56,485 --> 00:21:01,365 the 70s and 80s, the overtaking speed was sometimes 70, 80 miles an hour. 396 00:21:01,365 --> 00:21:02,044 So you went right. 397 00:21:02,495 --> 00:21:04,475 You really fast by somebody's slow car. 398 00:21:04,915 --> 00:21:09,925 Nowadays, the difference is not so great, but even so, it's still very disciplined. 399 00:21:10,225 --> 00:21:13,715 The course is billiard table smooth and very fast. 400 00:21:13,715 --> 00:21:17,674 I mean, average lap time speed is 165 miles an hour around there. 401 00:21:17,684 --> 00:21:21,930 So, you really, you know, You've got to concentrate tremendously, and it's long. 402 00:21:21,980 --> 00:21:26,260 I mean, for a new guy going there, it takes a long time to sort of figure 403 00:21:26,260 --> 00:21:27,700 out the nuances of the racetrack. 404 00:21:27,700 --> 00:21:31,139 But it's the Super Bowl, as far as the tradition. 405 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:36,430 Even though Daytona is the same length, I think it's got Deeper roots than 406 00:21:36,430 --> 00:21:42,439 Daytona, but I find winning Daytona much more gratifying than winning Le Mans. 407 00:21:42,729 --> 00:21:46,329 Number one, it's in my backyard, which makes it my home track. 408 00:21:46,479 --> 00:21:49,499 And I've been really successful down there, so it's like going 409 00:21:49,499 --> 00:21:51,059 home every time I go to Daytona. 410 00:21:51,059

--> 00:21:55,939 And to be able to win down there on such a regular basis makes it even better. 411 00:21:56,189 --> 00:21:59,539 I like going to Daytona better than I do going to Le Mans because Le 412 00:21:59,870 --> 00:22:00,979 Mans is halfway around the world. 413 00:22:01,810 --> 00:22:05,679 But, it's so seeped in history that as a racing driver and as a 414 00:22:05,679 --> 00:22:10,050 sports car racer, I think everybody deserves to do at least one Le Mans 415 00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:14,539 just to sort of take in that whole atmosphere of the Le Mans experience. 416 00:22:14,939 --> 00:22:16,569 International Race of Champions. 417 00:22:16,889 --> 00:22:18,389 And that was really an experience. 418 00:22:18,490 --> 00:22:23,379 You know, I had read about IROC and what a big deal it was to get invited. 419 00:22:23,379 --> 00:22:25,580 And when I was invited, I was just blown away. 420 00:22:25,770 --> 00:22:27,669 It was really, it was a cool deal. 421 00:22:27,879 --> 00:22:33,159 The cars were completely alien to me as far as how they handled the stock car. 422 00:22:33,279 --> 00:22:37,200 Philosophy of drafting and positioning yourself on a racetrack to take 423 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,770 advantage of drafting was a complete art that I knew nothing about. 424 00:22:41,085 --> 00:22:45,545 And Dale Earnhardt took me under his wing because I think he felt sorry for me. 425 00:22:45,605 --> 00:22:47,585 He said, you know, this is what you need to do. 426 00:22:47,645 --> 00:22:51,045 And I listened to him because I knew, you know, Dale was the best. 427 00:22:51,274 --> 00:22:54,135 And Dale was in every single IROC that I was in. 428 00:22:54,264 --> 00:22:55,735 He only told me just so much. 429 00:22:55,735 --> 00:22:56,774 He wouldn't tell me everything. 430 00:22:58,254 --> 00:23:01,865 But he told me enough to keep myself safe and out of trouble. 431 00:23:02,255 --> 00:23:07,345 Not to screw somebody else up with a move that you might make and not think 432 00:23:07,355 --> 00:23:08,565 about what the consequence might be. 433 00:23:09,205 --> 00:23:12,795 But it was a, it was a thrill and being able to come from a different form of 434 00:23:12,795 --> 00:23:19,155 racing, sports car racing, and one go into that sort of stock car type of automobile. 435 00:23:19,500 --> 00:23:24,270 Racing with Dale Earnhardt, Mark Martins, the Rusty Wallaces, with 436 00:23:24,390 --> 00:23:28,230 Larry Arendyke, Michael Andretti, and all the guys from IndyCar. 437 00:23:28,230 --> 00:23:31,210 It was a really big thrill and it was tons of fun. 438 00:23:31,210 --> 00:23:34,629 I really enjoyed my, uh, I did it four times. 439 00:23:34,870 --> 00:23:37,589 My best finish out of those four times I think was fourth. 440 00:23:37,655 --> 00:23:42,415 I could have won the race if I just had not gotten greedy, but I just 441 00:23:43,165 --> 00:23:46,495 tried to do that pass and got hung out and that was the end of that, but 442 00:23:46,495 --> 00:23:49,154 it was, it was a thrill and a treat. 443 00:23:55,804 --> 00:23:58,074 This episode is brought to you in part by the International 444 00:23:58,074 --> 00:23:59,485 Motor Racing Research Center. 445 00:23:59,695 --> 00:24:02,584 Its charter is to collect, share, and preserve the history 446 00:24:02,584 --> 00:24:06,135 of motorsports, spanning continents, eras, and race series. 447 00:24:06,274 --> 00:24:09,774 The center's collection embodies the speed, drama, and camaraderie 448 00:24:09,774 --> 00:24:12,554 of amateur and professional motor racing throughout the world. 449 00:24:12,730 --> 00:24:17,189 The Center welcomes serious researchers and casual fans alike to share stories of 450 00:24:17,189 --> 00:24:21,720 race drivers, race series, and race cars captured on their shelves and walls and 451 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,539 brought to life through a regular calendar of public lectures and special events. 452 00:24:25,749 --> 00:24:28,639 To learn 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