Full Transcript for Stretching vs. Standpipe with Chief McGrail - Ep. 2

default for a low rise is below 75 feet. 00:02:11.599 --> 00:02:21.039 So that's just one of my pet peeves, and I just wanted to throw it out there because any of the listeners that know me will know that uh that was something uh uh that that I would want to talk about. 00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:24.719 So I know you use the term mid-rise, but I just I tell guys, keep it simple. 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:28.319 It's high or it's low, it has a stand pipe in it or it doesn't. 00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:30.879 Uh it has a fire in it or it doesn't. 00:02:31.120 --> 00:02:57.599 Um, with regard to arriving on scene, you know, I mean, it you got to take a couple of steps back, and you want fire companies and especially fire officers to uh learn their district and examine their building and try and figure out um uh as much as they can about buildings, and specifically uh the buildings that are standpipe equipped, whether they're high rise or low rise, and whether or not they believe they can uh depend on that standpipe system. 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:06.800 And ultimately, as an incident commander, for for us to always be building built building in a um a plan B. 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:17.680 So one of the things that I always did, if if companies are stretching off the standpipe, I want to have a plan B where we can stretch from the rig, regardless of where that fire is and have that built in. 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:24.159 If companies are stretching off the rig, maybe have a built-in uh plan B as utilizing the standpipe. 00:03:24.319 --> 00:03:31.280 But it it depends on your trust in that building as whether we're going to use the standpipe or not, where the fire is located inside that building. 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:45.360 But the biggest part of this is for companies to get out and learn their district and to determine what their trust level is with those built-in systems in these buildings they respond to, not the least of which would be the standpipe. 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:47.840 I think that's the kind of steadfast thing, right? 00:03:48.000 --> 00:04:08.400 That uh yeah, obviously there's always going to be variables, but that that you know, in a blind situation where you haven't been in the structure, um have you come across, you know, people that have uh like a definitive amount of floors, like if it's below a certain floor, they'll definitely stretch from the rig based on simplicity versus using a system? 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:10.479 Well, a couple of things there for you, Jerry. 00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:17.439 Um I obviously I'm always a big proponent of when we can use our our own pumper. 00:04:17.680 --> 00:04:23.680 Um if we can use our own pumper, that means we're using our own engineer pump operator. 00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:29.759 We're using our own hose tools, nozzles, appliances, and I refer to that as positive control. 00:04:30.079 --> 00:04:37.040 And if we're able to maintain positive control, we have a little bit more overall control of the

outcome of the situation. 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:39.839 So it's nice to be able to use our rig when we can. 00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:50.240 So some rules of thumb for that operation, and and this is regardless whether it would be a low rise or a high rise or even a really tall high-rise building. 00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:57.360 Um, if if you have a fire below grade, it's critical to stretch off of the bumper. 00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:06.399 And there there certainly are you get a uh a large, tall, high-rise building in downtown Denver, there may be many sublevels. 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:13.199 And obviously, based on building and fire codes, there's gonna be standpipe hose valve outlets in those sublevels. 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:22.879 The issue, as you guys well know, is that um likely where we'd be hooking up is is probably gonna be in an IDLH or a smoke condition. 00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:39.839 So one of the easy rules of thumb, uh, pumper or standpipe would be if you have a below grade fire, I think it's critical to stretch from the pumper so that you have that umbilical cord that's gonna uh take you out of that IDLH outright. 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:50.879 As you guys know, one of our basic tenets for a standpipe operation when we're going, when we're going up, if we have a fire on the 40th floor, we're gonna hook up on the 39th floor, the floor below. 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:52.959 That's that's critically important. 00:05:53.279 --> 00:06:00.160 Um, so for a building, regardless of size, if the fire is below grade, it's a no-brainer. 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:04.800 We really need to be stretching uh from the from the pumper from the outside. 00:06:04.959 --> 00:06:15.439 Now, sometimes companies might get inside the building and they might discover a fire, and there might be a hose valve outlet close by, and that they might be. 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:21.600 I refer to it as kind of being painted into a corner where, geez, there's some standpipe water right here. 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:23.920 We can try and get some water on the fire. 00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:42.079 I understand that somebody might be painted in the corner to do that, but that's got to be communicated to command, and command needs to get busy getting a line stretched into the building so that those companies are operating, even if they started off the standpipe, that they have some sort of an umbilical cord that's going to take them outside. 00:06:42.399 --> 00:06:48.000 Now, um, certainly the rule of thumb I think could continue for a first floor fire. 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:50.639 Same reasoning, you know, we can't get below it. 00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:52.959 So let's stretch from the pumper to the inside. 00:06:53.120 --> 00:06:56.639 And I think the same rule of thumb can be used for a second floor fire. 00:06:56.800 --> 00:07:01.759 Um, the floor below is uh the street level or could be the pumper. 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:04.079 So I think those are all very easy right there. 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:06.560 Below grade first floor, second floor. 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:11.279 After that, I think it becomes more of the let your circumstances dictate procedures. 00:07:11.439 --> 00:07:32.480 And I think in the low rise realm, that you know, uh six-story or less, if you will, um stuff that's in that 75 foot or less uh in in feet, I think we should be prepared and have our pumpers set up so that we can stretch out of a static hose bed to any of those levels in the building. 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:37.680 Um but the below grade, the first floor and the second floor, I I think are no-brainers. 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:45.360 Um once we start getting above that, I think it becomes a little bit more of letting the circumstances dictate the procedures for sure. 00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:47.920 That's that's sage advice, you know. 00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:54.560 Process and procedure is great until you show up and the building doesn't fit within it, right? 00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:56.959 So that's uh that's sage advice. 00:07:57.439 --> 00:08:04.240 But you know, har hard and fast uh on on street level or two and below uh from a safety standpoint, that's that's good. 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:05.120 That's a great takeaway. 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:11.360 I think one of the other uh that you mention is uh a lot of parking garages, right? 00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:15.199 Uh we talk about using this the systems on parking garages. 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:18.800 Typically now we're they're putting you know residential above the garage. 00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:34.639 How much trust do we have in in those systems uh in parking garages versus stretching from the rig or drop stretching or well like you guys, I come from a well, I shouldn't say like you guys, because I think you guys have harsher winters than I do. 00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:43.600 But um the climate in Denver uh is gonna be prone to um temperatures below freezing uh in the winter. 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:55.039 Um it and and once again, uh I a lot of people when when I mention that I'm from Denver, they they wonder how difficult it is to drive fire trucks on mountain roads on the hills. 00:08:55.279 --> 00:08:57.440 You know, Denver's a flat city on the plains. 00:08:57.519 --> 00:08:59.440 We're just really close to the mountains. 00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:02.240 Um but the climate here is pretty moderate. 00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:08.639 Doesn't it doesn't get Buffalo, New York cold most of the time, it doesn't get Chicago hot most of the time. 00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:10.480 It's fairly moderate. 00:09:10.639 --> 00:09:16.639 Um I know you guys are a little bit further east of the Mississippi than I am, but you're familiar with cold weather. 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:34.399 One of the things that that for us in Denver, and it would be different for us than perhaps a firefighter in California, but um the standpipes in a parking garage, we've had a number of fires in sports venues, that sort of thing,

those standpipes are typically dry systems. 00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:41.679 Um and uh it's gonna take a while to get water to the hose valve outlet to begin with. 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:58.879 We have found many times, especially in the buildings that have a manual dry standpipe system, that people, uh for whatever reason, vandals, kids, whoever it is, will open up hose valve outlets to see if they can get water to come out of it, but they don't bother to close it back up when no water comes out of it. 00:09:59.039 --> 00:10:04.399 So we've had situations where we charge those manual dry standpipe systems. 00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:09.360 There's water everywhere, but not where we need it, because there's a bunch of open hose valve outlets. 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:22.159 Our default in Denver, and the recommendation I always make to firefighters, especially for dry manual standpipe systems, parking garages, sports venues, is to plan on getting a line from the rig. 00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:46.480 Now, sometimes it's kind of a hybrid stretch, if you will, and where we'll go into the building, we'll take our hose packs into the building, we'll get to the floor below, and we'll either drop hose or we'll drop rope to get our supply line, usually a three-inch, uh, to hook into the standpipe hose packs, and then from the floor below make our way up and attack the fire, car fire, whatever it happens to be. 00:10:46.799 --> 00:11:00.320 So uh I'm a big proponent of not using standpipe systems in parking garages, um, sports venues, other outside type venues, and having that positive control from the rig. 00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:15.440 The stretch rather than a stretch from the static hose bed is oftentimes uh going into the building with standpipe, hose packs, and equipment, and then um reaching down either with rope or the hose packs themselves to get the supply. 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:21.440 And in our case, it's usually a three-inch supply supplying the two and a half inch standpipe hose packs. 00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:33.120 But uh yeah, the very problematic are these fires that occur in these um uh parking garages, uh, once again, sports venues, that sort of thing. 00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:53.840 We've had a number of fires over the years at um the so-called Mile High Stadium, and the most recent fire that occurred there was a good working fire where the standpipe system essentially failed entirely just because of a deteriorated supply line from the um from a remote FDC underground to the riser had deteriorated. 00:11:53.919 --> 00:12:00.399 And once uh once those uh pump operators on those engine companies put water to that, it it blew apart. 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:11.600 We didn't know at the time what was going on, but we had to we basically ended up laying supply lines through tunnels onto the field and just having a kind of a conventional attack of the fire in that building. 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:16.559 But I'm always wary of scam pipe systems and parking garages for sure. 00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:22.559 And as you guys said, we now have these modern buildings, many times referred to as mid-rise. 00:12:22.720 --> 00:12:37.360 I'm not sure what to call them, I just call them modern tenements, but they love to have these block-long buildings uh with really long hallways and a parking garage in the middle, and of course, somebody's driving a Tesla, and that's the vehicle that catches on fire. 00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:42.480 So there's a whole bunch of stuff going on there that's making it very difficult for us. 00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:55.120 But um, for parking garages, I'm a big proponent of make your water coming from that pumper, even if it's a hybrid stretch involving both standpipe packs and uh uh but but water from the pumper. 00:12:55.200 --> 00:13:03.440 I I have very little trust in those dry, specifically manual standpipe systems off of parking garages. 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:19.200 So if if that kind of covers the rules of thumb, right, the the the easy ones, um maybe we can go a little bit deeper on what uh what kind of makes a a winning stretch, if you will, right? 00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:25.600 Some some some tips and tricks maybe when we're stretching from the rig versus stretching from the standpipe. 00:13:25.679 --> 00:13:29.919 We talk about stretch from the standpipe a lot, about hookup and flushing and whatever else. 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:32.559 But uh let's start maybe from the rig. 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:44.080 So the idea would be you know um any standpipe operation is a a very large labor uh intensive uh operation, right? 00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:47.279 Stretching from the ribs is gonna be the same thing too, right? 00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:48.559 Absolutely. 00:13:48.879 --> 00:14:09.840 I mean to me the key on both of those, well, there's a couple of keys, but in terms of the labor associated with it, um many years ago we we adopted uh and just kind of followed behind um FDMY with regard to the pairing of engine companies uh upon arrival for a standpipe operation. 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:12.960 Um I think you can take that a step further as well. 00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:21.440 And for a ground-based operation, especially if it's going to be a long stretch from a static hose bed, um, you need to pair engine companies together again. 00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:24.480 Um, for us, our minimum staffing is four. 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:30.320 You would eliminate the engineers, we call them engineers, but the pump operators from that, because they're doing their obvious job. 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:32.159 But that gives you six people. 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:54.240 And I think uh with six physically and mentally prepared firefighters, in this case, two fire officers with the four firefighters, I think you can do a uh a very good stretch from a static hose bed uh in a fairly long distance, and you can absolutely do a good standpipe stretch, but then you have the ability to advance it if you need to

move that line. 00:14:54.480 --> 00:15:00.480 Say it becomes a stairwell stretch, and you're starting from the stairwell with an involved floor and involved hallway. 00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:05.519 If we have that extra help from that second engine company, that's going to make it a little bit better. 00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:13.600 Now, I don't know if this is the appropriate place for it or not, but obviously pairing those uh uh two engine companies together is critical. 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:25.679 The other thing, uh Chris and Jerry, that I would add to it, uh, and it's it's true whether it's a ground-based operation and a stretch from the stack bed, but it's even more important for the standpipe operation. 00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:37.360 What we try to teach people in our hands-on trainings and how we're trying to educate firefighters on the Denver fire department, is to know where you're going before you start going there. 00:15:37.519 --> 00:16:00.000 That's one of the big failures that I've seen over the years, is companies will arrive on scene, maybe they have something obvious showing, and then they can start guessing where they're going and how they're gonna get there, but they really don't know for sure, even with what they see on the outside, what floor is it on, where are the stairwells, what's gonna be the best stairwell to use, what that sort of thing. 00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:03.919 So we always tell guys, know where you're going before you start going there. 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:23.360 In our case, there's usually a truck company ahead of the engine company that's doing a bit of reconnaissance and they'll communicate with the engine company, but the very best engine company officers I know are gonna look and they're gonna do that reconnaissance for themselves, and they're gonna see exactly where they need to go before they start going there. 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:28.159 And then you're gonna have proper proper numbers in terms of the length of the stretch. 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:29.759 You're not gonna come up short. 00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:41.840 There's gonna be a conscious decision made on what's gonna be the best attack stairwell versus what's gonna be the evacuation stairwell, but but certainly knowing where they're going before they start going there. 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:56.159 So the help that you get when the two engine companies pair together for a ground-based static stretch or a standpipe operation, and then that really good reconnaissance on the front end to know exactly where you're going before you start going there. 00:16:56.320 --> 00:17:08.880 Um, the best officers I know, and I I had breakfast, breakfast with uh a lieutenant on our job today, um, who's a friend of mine, Lieutenant Josh Schauer, and he's one of the very best engine company officers in the business. 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:19.920 And when we do our training together, and what he does on the job is during his reconnaissance, he may actually communicate to his crew below. 00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:24.480 And they'll they'll they'll usually stage at a hose valve outlet on the floor below. 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:31.279 Officer will go up and do that reconnaissance, but sometimes the communication is hey guys, cross over to the other stairwell. 00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:37.359 Because he got up there, he saw that it's a long distance down the hallway, much closer to the other stairwell. 00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:50.240 And what might have been a 250 or a 300-foot stretch can now become a 150-foot stretch because of good reconnaissance and the selection of an appropriate attack stairwell. 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:53.599 So um, nowhere you're going before you start going is critical. 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:54.400 Yeah. 00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:56.240 I I think that's gold. 00:17:56.319 --> 00:18:08.559 You know, I'm sitting here thinking, you know, for all the years that we've interacted with you and and and your cadre and this of of a lot of the major urban fire departments that we deal with. 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:16.559 You're probably one of the most, if not the most, disciplined with your approach to this type of a challenge in Denver. 00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:24.960 Um and you know, I think that that's the nuggets that we couldn't go deeper with is that kind of stuff when we were actually filming our brass tax hard facts. 00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:29.839 Because the reality is it's wishful thinking in a lot of other people's cases. 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:31.519 The discipline is not there. 00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:34.720 Uh that simple thing of that reconnaissance is huge. 00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:41.279 You know, it could be 50% of the amount of hose on the stretch just because you got some good inf intel from the fire floor. 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:50.559 Um in your in your teachings you know, worldwide, Dave, is is that the kind of discipline you encourage? 00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:56.079 I mean, you know, how how frequently should companies be drilling this type of event? 00:18:56.240 --> 00:19:01.680 I mean, it's such a low frequency, high probability for error scenario. 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:03.759 It's a great question, Jerry. 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:09.279 Um and I I I once again I reflect back on some of the best officers that I know. 00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:20.799 I um let me begin with, you know, when I was a young firefighter, and I assume both of you guys went through this as well uh when you were younger firefighters. 00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:31.119 Um I think young firefighters, myself specifically, when I was brand new, I was I was in this mindset of I'm I I want to prove myself. 00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:33.599 I want to get my opportunity to prove myself. 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:37.599 But when's my opportunity gonna happen to be able to prove myself? 00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:44.960 And what I tell young firefighters today is you have the opportunity every day to prove yourself, even if it's what

you're doing in the firehouse. 00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:55.920 Um, how you operate and the work that you do in the firehouse, we're not janitors, but we do clean toilets and we take pride in having a clean firehouse. 00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:05.759 And I think that reflects on how that firefighter is going to perform out in the field, the work they're doing on a day-to-day basis, that that routine work, if you will. 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:15.279 Um, one of the things that that I get from those very best officers that I know, and I just mentioned one of them, and it's that gentleman I had breakfast with this morning. 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:20.640 But here would be uh a typical thing for me when I was on the job. 00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:27.759 Um the dispatch would dispatch uh engine three, truck four, and chief two to an automatic alarm. 00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:32.240 And we're responding to an automatic alarm in a building we've been to before. 00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:35.519 Uh there's no second source 911 calls. 00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:37.519 Um, it's during the day. 00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:39.759 There's nothing showing upon arrival. 00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:46.079 There's a real high probability it's going to turn out to be something less than a major fire, right? 00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:51.440 But I was always proud of these guys, and we tried to set the example from the top down. 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:54.799 Um they went into the building as if they were going to a fire. 00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:58.079 Uh, they were fully suited up, they had all of their gear. 00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:03.279 The truck guys had all of the truck equipment from a set of irons to a tick to a can. 00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:07.680 The engine guys had their hose packs, all of their equipment. 00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:12.880 Uh we used good discipline using the elevator on the way up, no closer than two floors below. 00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:22.079 And kind of getting in the mode to do that, and I believe that that that kind of discipline that becomes that then becomes your prime recognition decision making. 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:23.599 It's just what did I do last time? 00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:26.240 Well, last time we did it by the numbers. 00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:28.799 Turned out to be a system malfunction last time. 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:32.400 We did it by the numbers, and I think, guys, they just get into that habit. 00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:42.640 Our good friend Daryl Liggins one time asked me to look up the word, the definition of the word habit, and habit and acquired mode of behavior that's become nearly or completely involuntary. 00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:46.960 And I was really grateful to him for pointing me in the direction of defining that. 00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:52.000 But yeah, the there's that phrase good luck reinforces bad habits. 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:57.759 But I I'm proud of that discipline from the the very good companies in my own organization. 00:21:58.079 --> 00:21:59.759 But on that engine three truck four. 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:01.279 Chief 2. 00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:09.920 Um, I'd set up my my command post uh early on, might go into the lobby uh before it evolves into something more significant. 00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:15.599 But one of the first communications would be this uh command, this is truck four, truck four, go ahead. 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:21.359 Um, Chief, we've got a light smoke condition on the 40th floor, and it smells like food. 00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:31.279 And uh I knew this was going on, even though I couldn't see it, but I always knew it was going on, especially from those good engine companies, in this case engine three. 00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:40.559 Um, before that truck company officer could get the the letter D and the word food out of his mouth, um, engine three was stretching a line. 00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:45.839 They're stretching a line properly from the floor below, choosing an appropriate attack stairwell. 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:51.359 That line would get up to the door, and more often than not, uh the door would open up. 00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:53.839 There would be the officer from truck four with the crew. 00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:56.160 Uh they already got the slider opened up. 00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:02.480 Um the uh the apartment's ventilating nicely, they can see and do a visual primary search. 00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:06.720 The beans are in the sink and the water's on extinguishing the beans. 00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:10.799 Um is it wrong that they stretched that line? 00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:12.079 Absolutely not. 00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:16.880 That was that was one of many opportunities for them to stretch. 00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:24.480 It's gonna take them about 10 minutes to repack the hose, get downstairs, go back available for another call. 00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:27.440 But those are the invalid valuable opportunities. 00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:35.920 So I always tell guys when when you and I are doing a training drill with them, and and Jerry, when we're out there in Hawaii coming up in November, I'll tell them the same thing. 00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:38.319 Take every opportunity that you have. 00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:43.839 The automatic alarm sometimes is is thought of as a negative in the fire service. 00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:50.319 And yeah, it's not the greatest thing in the world to respond to a nuisance building on another automatic alarm at three o'clock in the morning. 00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:51.359 I understand that. 00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:54.640 But certainly uh it gets us into the building. 00:23:54.720 --> 00:24:00.319 And for the two o'clock in the afternoon automatic alarm, when we're in the building, learn a little bit about the building. 00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:03.759 And um, if you have an opportunity, do a stretch. 00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:14.640 And so when I ask those good fire officers uh that are on my team and part of my cadre, I will ask them, how

many standpipe stretches will you guys get in a typical month? 00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:18.640 So a that'd be a nine work shift month in Denver. 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:21.839 Um, and I would ask them, how many, how many stretches would you get? 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:26.559 And they would almost always say, at least nine, sometimes twelve, sometimes fifteen. 00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:35.759 And more often than not, there's stretches that don't involve water going on a fire, but there's stretches that just give us another repetition in this building or that building. 00:24:35.920 --> 00:24:50.640 And Jerry, it it you know all these buildings are different, so in their hard drive, um they're starting to remember that in that building on 17th Street, it's got this type of a stairwell, maybe scissor stairs. 00:24:50.880 --> 00:25:03.519 In that building over on Larmer, it's a return stair, but it's got that gap between the metal stairs and the in the in the concrete portion of that that uh that building where the hose can slip in there. 00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:13.279 You know, they're just learning these different fine points about specific buildings, and it adds up to where the night they have to really do a real bona fide stretch, it just goes smoothly. 00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:14.799 It's not their first stretch. 00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:22.559 And so we we have opportunities to do that on on more of a regular basis than guys realize. 00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:28.640 And so for your listeners and those firefighters, and especially those officers that are listening, take those opportunities. 00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:31.519 Take the if you have a chance to do a stretch, do a stretch. 00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:41.039 And you you might even just get into a building um and you contact the the your battalion chief and say, Hey, do you mind if we go out of service for a half hour? 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:42.799 We just want to do a stretch in this building. 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:46.400 That battalion chief's gonna say, absolutely, go go ahead and do that. 00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:48.319 Take those opportunities. 00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:52.480 I recently um it it warned my heart. 00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:56.480 Got a text the other day from one of your members, Scott Eccles. 00:25:57.119 --> 00:26:06.880 Um, and it's I don't know, every few months I'll get one from him, but he'll be like, Hey, we we we came across this weird valve, none of us have seen, right? 00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:08.559 Have you ever seen one like this before? 00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:11.519 It has this weird PRD on it or whatever. 00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:22.240 Um, but it shows, you know, everything you just said that yeah, um you know get sets and reps, obviously, builds that habit. 00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:28.000 But then also when you come across the weird thing, use your network, right? 00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:29.920 I love getting those kind of texts. 00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:58.960 Whether he's asking you, whether he's asking a senior captain, the offgoing shift, or somebody from Elkhart, like, you know, hey, and and then you're closing the loop too, and you get back to your guys and gals on, you know, hey, actually I did reach out and we we found this thing, but back to our very first question, you know, stretch it from the rig or the or the standpipe, it it really does know when you're buildings and knowing when you show up, you're not gonna figure that out at three in the morning of which play you're gonna call. 00:26:59.119 --> 00:26:59.759 Yeah. 00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:01.680 Well, I love that. 00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:03.759 I I'm sure you've heard this before. 00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:09.839 Um sometimes it's a senior guy, might be an officer, says, guys, we need to act like we've done this before. 00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:14.880 Well, it's easier to act like you've done it before, even if you're not going on a standpipe operation. 00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:17.759 And there's no Jerry, you hit the nail on the head. 00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:21.839 These are uh high-risk, low frequency events. 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:27.119 So we got to take the opportunity when we can to prepare for them and and plan for them. 00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:36.480 Um, because uh the the actual bona fide uh blowing out of window type uh fire is going to be a lower frequency event. 00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:43.759 You know, Chris, you mentioned Scott Eccles and uh what a tremendous professional and fire matic guy he is. 00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:45.119 Uh he's a good one. 00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:51.599 He just he just got through writing an excellent training bulletin for for Denver Fire regarding standpipe operations. 00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:57.279 And and it's based on several of those things uh that he's recently seen and that he's shared with us. 00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:00.079 But I I can't say enough about that guy. 00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:10.000 Um when I would hear his voice at the other end of the radio at a fire, I knew things were gonna go well because he is he is a dialed uh professional. 00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:13.039 Um and he he's just top of the top shelf. 00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:15.680 So I I can't say enough about him. 00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:29.839 Um I don't know, he he's very humble, so he might not have shared with you, but he did very well on the captain's exam, and he's likely to be promoted to captain sometime before the end of the year, and that just that makes me very, very happy. 00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:32.559 Well, well, well deserved and earned for sure. 00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:41.759 I think we first met at it's like FDIC West when he he was still in Castle Rock when we were out at LA's uh at Frank's place there at the LA City. 00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:43.920 But uh yeah, that's great. 00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:47.839 Scott's a bit professional, I would agree, and a gentleman. 00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:50.000 That's that's a big part of it for me too. 00:28:50.240 -->

00:28:53.440 We just did our stair climb uh on Friday. 00:28:53.839 --> 00:29:11.759 Uh we've got a building in downtown Denver where we do it, but uh Scott and uh Sean Roper and I, uh a guy named Orin Brees, who is a chief officer on the Castle Rock Fire Department, um, we started this uh climbing in 2005. 00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:15.599 Ours was the original stair stair climb, and then from there it grew. 00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:33.680 And before long, we we latched onto the 343 number and uh 343 official registrants, and then all of us who helped run it and the volunteers that helped be safety officers on floor landings, and then many, many, many on-duty Denver fire companies. 00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:34.960 But this was last Friday. 00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:40.480 We have a building where wouldn't we we climb from the dock level to floor 55? 00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:43.200 We'll get an afraid elevator, come down, and then do it again. 00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:45.119 That gives us our 110 flights. 00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:47.519 And obviously, everybody climbs for somebody. 00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:51.839 I I claim climbed for our uh our friend and mentor Andy Fredericks. 00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:59.440 But uh, you know, Scott uh he's in shape, he's in he's in crazy excellent physical condition. 00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:06.240 And um, you know, uh it's just he's just impressive to watch because he's the whole package. 00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:14.640 Um a great leader in top physical condition and and constantly doing these things along the lines of training and mentoring. 00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:21.839 Uh there's there's there's good standpipe operations are on our job, and significantly because people like him. 00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:24.720 Well, give yourself some credit too, Chief. 00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:32.960 You know, it's like it's like when you're when you were to Boston Threes, I know you were doing those drills on smoke small calls. 00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:34.000 Absolutely. 00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:36.960 Well, you know, you you try to set the example. 00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:40.240 I know you guys have always tried to set that example as well. 00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:56.640 Um and uh it it it's nice when you pass the depon the baton and you know that uh I but I I find this, and I don't know if you guys have found found this or not, but you know, Jerry, you're from my generation, certainly, and Chris, you're just maybe a decade or so behind. 00:30:56.720 --> 00:30:59.839 But uh uh in terms of age, I should say. 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:11.359 Um, but um when when the people that you mentored are the ones that are now mentoring you and coaching you, you you know that's a great thing when it comes full circle. 00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:17.039 And and there's guys like Scott that uh when I listen to him, I'm learning stuff from him now. 00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:18.079 And it's really cool. 00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:19.119 I like I like that. 00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:20.799

Yeah, I I do too. 00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:24.960 That's uh that's one of the silver linings of of of getting to this point. 00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:25.519 Yeah. 00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:33.920 Um jumping back to stretching, we talked till we almost got there. 00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:38.240 Um can we talk a little bit about reflex time? 00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:44.720 So that's something we hear a lot about in stamp pipe operations, whether we're stretching from the rig or using the stamp pipe. 00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:52.480 You know, when we show up, you mentioned about you know elevator discipline and doing some recon and all that takes time. 00:31:53.119 --> 00:32:00.880 Um any rules of thumb or thoughts on on reflex time when we show up on these these fires in the upper floors? 00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:02.400 There absolutely is. 00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:14.480 And I think that part of this goes back to um trying to do the theme of what we're talking about today, just trying to set that a good example and build that fire-based mindset. 00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:30.079 Um we we have to have firefighters that number one, uh, believe that they're gonna have to respond to a standpipe equipped building, whether it's high or low, but they're gonna have to respond to a uh standpipe equipped building that has a fire in it. 00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:32.079 They have to believe that that's gonna happen. 00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:35.759 And if they believe that's gonna happen, then they start preparing for it. 00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:41.200 And then as they prepare for it, when it does happen, they look like professionals. 00:32:41.440 --> 00:33:03.039 With regard to the reflex time, and I I think that really exceptional firefighters can reduce this number, but by and large, a good rule of thumb for reflex time is if it is if the three of us were going somewhere elevated right now, we should expect at least one minute per vertical flight of travel of reflex time. 00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:15.359 It should not be a surprise to anybody, and it might not be unusual, that if we had a fire on the 20th floor of a true high-rise building, it might be 20 minutes before we get water on that fire. 00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:24.160 Now, if I could respond with Chris Martin, Jerry Hurst, Dave McGrill, and Scott Eccles, I think we could shrink that down a little bit. 00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:29.279 I think it's still going to be at least 10, maybe 12 or somewhere in that neighborhood. 00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:34.880 But one minute per flight of vertical travel is a good rule of thumb to expect. 00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:38.480 And uh that depends on who you're working with and who your team is. 00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:40.559 Might be longer, might be shorter. 00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:43.119 But uh we always try and tell guys that. 00:33:43.279 --> 00:34:03.440 One of the things that I do as an illustration when I'm doing my training classes is that I I have firefighters in the in the training class, I ask

them, how long does it take you to stretch your 200-foot pre-connected inch and three-quarter to attack a fire in a master and bedroom, master bedroom of a 2,500 square foot ranch house? 00:34:03.759 --> 00:34:19.199 And um, when when when I reflect on the very best people I know on my fire department, I believe a good a good time for that from the time the air brake is set till you have water on the fire is about two minutes if you're doing really well. 00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:22.960 And there's not a significant forcible entry problem, though, no curveballs. 00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:29.440 I think that you can get good water on a fire with an inch and three-quarter, 200 foot pre-connect in about two minutes. 00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:32.400 And then I asked the same question of those same firefighters. 00:34:32.559 --> 00:34:34.800 Now that fire is on the 20th floor of the building. 00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:36.239 How long does that take? 00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:43.840 And the ones that are realistic and honest will will say 12, 15, 20 minutes perhaps. 00:34:44.079 --> 00:34:54.079 And so I always ask them in the process of choosing your weapon for that fire, remember, given ample oxygen and fuel, that fire is going to grow exponentially. 00:34:54.159 --> 00:35:00.800 And we understand the doublings in size every every 30 seconds, given ample oxygen and fuel. 00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:03.760 So part of our weapon selection is based on that. 00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:09.440 It's gonna be a much bigger enemy when we get to it, as opposed to when we set the airbreak in the street. 00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:18.239 But to me, once again, fellas, it's building that mindset to begin with that yeah, we're gonna have a fire in a standpipe equipped building, high or low. 00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:24.159 Um, let's start preparing for it and let's understand there's gonna be some reflex time. 00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:35.760 So the weapon we choose it is should be a very powerful weapon because by the time we get that weapon in service, it's gonna be a much more significant fire than when we started at the street. 00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:38.480 Yeah, I'm holding up the two and a half intentionally. 00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:39.840 Yes, sir. 00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:40.719 Yes, sir. 00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:42.960 And you know, and you know with it. 00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:52.320 I know, Chris, that in the in in when we were preparing for this, we talked a little bit about this, but that is what I don't want to say it's something we're still fighting. 00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:57.599 It's something we're still trying to educate the fire service on, is is hose size in these buildings. 00:35:57.840 --> 00:36:15.519 And um the one of the things I always try to pass on to the firefighters I'm mentoring, or anytime we're doing a training drill, like the one that we're gonna do in Hawaii, is that the system was originally designed and the fire protection engineers designed it based on the assumption that we're using two and a half inch hose. 00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:36.480 And we we uh certainly have learned a lot from a lot of different fire departments, uh FDNY, FDNY being one of them, but we allow for a hybrid stretch, and that is for the two-inch nozzle section that's being fed by two and a half uh for a compartmentalized fire in a residential occupancy building. 00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:39.440 So we have that hybrid stretch option. 00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:45.199 But um one of the frustrating things to me is there's always a new size hose. 00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:49.920 And right now, the two and a quarter is a big uh thing in the fire service. 00:36:50.079 --> 00:36:52.079 Um and um, yeah, that's fine. 00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:56.159 It's it's it's a step better than an inch and three-quarter, there's no doubt about it. 00:36:56.320 --> 00:37:03.920 But that system was designed um to um have us utilize two and a half inch hose as our principal component. 00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:06.559 So I always try and educate firefighters that way. 00:37:06.639 --> 00:37:13.360 And I I would just add this to the current hose thing and to the to uh the listeners that are going to be watching this. 00:37:13.599 --> 00:37:24.000 One of my current pet peeves in our fire service is the the hose, uh, all of our hose has become what I refer to as way too robust. 00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:29.920 It is so, you know, the the the salesman will advertise it as kink-resistant hose. 00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:46.000 And when I hear kink-resistant hose, I want to run the other direction because uh we're seeing hose on my job now where um you used to be able to fit all of this hose in a in a trough for a 200-foot pre-connect, and now there's a whole bunch of the nozzle sections sticking out of the top. 00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:48.880 It's because it's so thick on that outer jacket. 00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:52.559 There's got to be a balancing act when we're specifying our hose. 00:37:52.719 --> 00:38:08.320 And when you're testing hose for standpipe operations, in addition to flowing it and maneuvering it and that sort of thing, see how well it packs up into a hose pack and load those hose packs onto firefighters and have them climb long distances and stairs. 00:38:08.559 --> 00:38:14.239 That's got to be one of the tests when we're determining what's going to be the best hose for our standpipe operation. 00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:16.559 We want it to be durable, there's no doubt about it. 00:38:16.639 --> 00:38:21.599 We want it to flow really well, but it has to also, it has to be a whole bunch of things for us. 00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:35.519 So um I think if if you're specifying hose for a standpipe operation, something in the middle, something in the middle that has durability, but it also has some flexibility and it's also lighter in weight. 00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:44.480 Um, I I always tell guys if you can keep it per section dry in the 20 to 25 pound range, you're doing

pretty good. 00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:47.039 Yeah, it's a great tangent, actually. 00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:47.440 Yeah. 00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:55.519 Um, because it is this balance of weight, construction, flow efficiency, packability. 00:38:55.840 --> 00:39:01.840 Um my my favorite one is always like, well, just if you break it in, you know, then it gets better. 00:39:02.239 --> 00:39:09.840 It's like, all right, Chief, we just bought all this new hose and now we're gonna drag around the parking lot for a couple weeks just because it it packs better, you know. 00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:13.280 Um very uh very insightful thing there. 00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:19.119 Because again, you you make this decision on a direction and you're gonna be stuck with that decision for a long time. 00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:23.519 I mean, you got you got a fire hose on your job that's decades old because it passes tests every year. 00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:25.440 So what a novel thought. 00:39:25.599 --> 00:39:28.480 Pre-plan your attack package the same way you pre-plan the structure. 00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:31.519 Well, you guys know this. 00:39:31.679 --> 00:40:02.239 Um I um for for for standpipe equipment um for most fire departments, mine included, um and especially if let's wait, let's say we're trying to um um assist a fire department, fire department XYZ across our American fire service, and let and let's say they've made the decision to go with an attack package that is principally two and a half. 00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:10.079 There might be some hybrid options depending on the buildings, that sort of thing, but it's principally two and a half, they've got to sell that to their membership. 00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:13.760 And if you can't sell it to the membership, it's gonna fail. 00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:27.599 And one of the one of the things, or the thing I should say, that firefighters are gonna spend most of their time doing with that standpipe equipment package is loading it up on their backs and taking it in and out of buildings. 00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:34.400 And most of the time it's gonna go into the building, it's not gonna be deployed, and it's gonna come out back out of the building and go on the rig. 00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:37.519 That has to be a user-friendly operation. 00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:42.480 And if that's a user-friendly operation, I think that you start getting some buy-in there. 00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:47.280 And if you can get buy-in there, then you can get buy-in for the overall package. 00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:52.079 So I've heard that one too, Chris, where you know, we need to break it in a little bit. 00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:55.199 Well, while you're breaking it in, you're wearing it out as well. 00:40:55.360 --> 00:41:00.559 And so there's there's there's many, many levered layers and and levels to that for sure. 00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:10.559 But um just encouraging your listeners to make a conscious decision and study it uh when you're putting

together that attack package. 00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:20.159 You want something that's gonna be durable, you want something that's not going to uh be fragile and could break or burst on you, that sort of thing. 00:41:20.320 --> 00:41:36.079 But you also want something that's going to be easy to maneuver and something that's gonna be easy to fold into a hose pack, something that's gonna be user-friendly and fairly easy when you're carrying it in and out of buildings, because that's what you're doing with these hose packs most of the time. 00:41:36.159 --> 00:41:39.679 They're going in and out of buildings and they're they're not being put to work. 00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:57.440 When they when they are put to work, we want it to work, we want it to work well, and we want it to be durable, but it's it's a huge balancing act, and it it it requires it requires some some thinking and some discussion and some research and a whole lot of testing, that's for sure. 00:41:58.639 --> 00:41:59.840 I would agree. 00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:13.280 Chris and I were off on a conversation earlier about, you know, uh there's this cut and paste solution mentality that a lot of people have of, oh, you know, we just do this because it looked the same or that's what they did and it appeared to work for them. 00:42:13.679 --> 00:42:17.039 Uh doesn't even get you to the neighborhood, let alone to the address you need to be at. 00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:21.360 Um and and everything, I don't know, everything. 00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:25.360 Uh I I kind of feel the way you do is like what what size hose are we gonna have tomorrow? 00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:31.280 You know, one eight two three point seven five or something like that, you know, for one particular application. 00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:40.159 Um the the depth of knowledge it takes to do an evaluation uh and and and the byproduct of that is what you just described. 00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:42.159 It's functional, it's durable, it works. 00:42:42.639 --> 00:42:48.000 Uh I know we're obsession with trying to make things easier on a job that sometimes is hard. 00:42:48.079 --> 00:42:49.840 Uh we just have to anticipate that. 00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:50.559 You know? 00:42:50.880 --> 00:43:04.320 If you're gonna carry that equipment up twenty flights of stairs, and this is something I've heard you say countless times in your presentations, you need to be, you know, mentally prepared, physically prepared um and disciplined uh if you want it to go well. 00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:06.719 Uh and that takes effort and effort. 00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:20.159 Yeah, I mean the the you know, if you have one pre-93 building in your first two or your department or whatever, uh you gotta expect you're only getting sixty-five PSI out of that thing. 00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:30.159 So whether you you're gonna roll the dice with inch of the quarter or even two and a quarter, depending on what it is, you gotta you gotta do your homework ahead of time. 00:43:30.320 --> 00:43:42.079 Cause there's a good chance if it is that pre-93 building, that's probably the one that's in the back of your head that's always like, Man, I really hope this place never catches on fire. 'Cause we're gonna be screwed. 00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:42.480 Right. 00:43:42.719 --> 00:43:46.079 Yeah, but that have the attack package geared for that worst case scenario. 00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:46.800 Absolutely. 00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:48.079 And but a lot of times it's not. 00:43:48.159 --> 00:43:50.239 It's like, well, we have all this new construction, yeah. 00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:51.920 So we're gonna tailor it towards this. 00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:59.760 Sprinklers, this you know, but uh meanwhile you got this kind of you know, looming building two, three, four, ten that are out there of like, well. 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:00.480 Yeah. 00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:01.840 Can't cheat math. 00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:02.239 Yeah. 00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:06.639 System designed for three pieces of two and a half with an engine eight smooth board and two fifty. 00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:08.079 That's what it's designed for. 00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:11.119 Anything outside of that, you're attacking yourself. 00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:11.519 Yeah. 00:44:12.159 --> 00:44:28.159 You guys got me thinking about a couple of things in your conversation there, and and that is um, you know, that there are good firefighters across our fire service, many of whom have at some point in time been on a way over pressurized two and a half. 00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:33.440 And once they're on that over pressurized two and a half, it leads up leaves a bad taste in their mouth. 00:44:33.760 --> 00:44:51.039 And you guys, with your excellent inline pressure gauge, which is on every engine company on the Denver fire department now, um, we have that finesse in our modern fire service where where we can properly pressurize a standpipe attack line. 00:44:51.199 --> 00:44:58.719 And when we're training firefighters, we'll tell them if it calls for 75 PSI, I'm gonna give Jerry and Chris 70. 00:44:58.880 --> 00:45:00.400 I'm gonna start with 70. 00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:05.440 And we can always adjust upward, but but too much is bad. 00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:10.639 And if it's over pressurized, it's gonna be a problem, and then it's likely gonna be a failed operation. 00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:22.719 But there's that, and then um I'm a big proponent of the Aaron Fields nozzle forward, and uh I didn't uh that didn't come about until later in my career. 00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:42.880 But uh when I attended the first nozzle forward class of his when he had one out here in Denver, I was just amazed and I was like, geez, I wish I would have known this a long time ago because there's so many techniques that he teaches that that can make a a larger, more powerful weapon uh very doable. 00:45:43.519 --> 00:45:59.199 So proper pressurization, the Alcart inline pressure gauge, spending some time in

the gym, certainly, uh going to a nozzle forward class, preferably an Aaron Fields nozzle forward class, and then more than anything else, just having a can-do attitude. 00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:20.880 Um Chris and Jerry, I I I taught a class uh in a location, not to be mentioned, but many years ago, and there and I was emphasizing the importance of two and a half for the sandpipe operation, and there was a a fire officer one from one particular department that was there, and he raised his hand, he says, We can't do two and a half. 00:46:21.039 --> 00:46:22.880 And it really frustrated me. 00:46:23.119 --> 00:46:26.639 But then I I got to thinking and I I said, Is he right? 00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:28.639 He's absolutely right. 00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:36.960 Because he he's just built a self-fulfilling prophecy for himself, and especially in the captain's position, that's gonna trickle all the way down. 00:46:37.119 --> 00:46:40.960 If somebody says they can't, it it's true they can't. 00:46:41.119 --> 00:46:48.960 And I also believe that if somebody says they can and they do all the the necessary work to make it happen, I believe they absolutely can as well. 00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:51.840 So it's got to be part of our mindset. 00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:58.159 The other thing I wanted to mention, and and you talked about it, Jerry, with regard to the physical aspect of this operation. 00:46:58.639 --> 00:47:15.760 I don't know how you guys are with this or not, but I I get these different pet peeves, and I don't know, it might be a reflection on who I am and my personality or whatever, but when I'm watching the news and the news media uses the term first responders, that's gonna drive me to drink booze. 00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:16.559 I swear. 00:47:16.719 --> 00:47:19.760 I I can't stand the term first responder. 00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:22.719 Uh I want them to say who it is. 00:47:23.119 --> 00:47:25.440 It's either police fire or EMS of who's there. 00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:28.079 So what firefighters got there and they did their thing. 00:47:28.159 --> 00:47:36.480 But what I want to emphasize to your listeners and other firefighters is when somebody says the term first responder, who's coming next? 00:47:36.719 --> 00:47:38.639 All right, who's the second responder? 00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:42.320 I want to know who they are because none of us have ever seen them. 00:47:42.559 --> 00:47:48.960 Um so as you said, Jerry, for us, we got to be physically and mentally prepared. 00:47:49.119 --> 00:47:53.360 I want to be as good as Lieutenant Soon-to-be Captain Scott Eccles. 00:47:53.840 --> 00:47:58.079 I'm I'm realistic and I understand I'm not going to be that good, especially physically. 00:47:58.239 --> 00:48:00.559 The man's a ski patrolman on his day off. 00:48:00.639 --> 00:48:04.239 I think that he hovers in the 9% body fat range. 00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:06.000 And he's no spring chicken either. 00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:08.000 Make no mistake about that. 00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:10.480 He's in very top physical condition. 00:48:10.639 --> 00:48:17.519 And I see that when I see him and Roper climbing those stairs, they the way they do it, they're in very good physical condition. 00:48:17.679 --> 00:48:31.119 The point being this, um, I hear a lot of different instructors talk about stairs and climbing stairs and how difficult it is, and and how they're almost encouraging people not to climb the stairs. 00:48:31.280 --> 00:48:33.039 Well, sometimes that's our only option. 00:48:33.199 --> 00:48:37.599 A lot of my fires that I've had, for whatever reason, the stairs were the only option. 00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:44.639 Um the firefighters who are responding, who are sometimes referred to as first responders, nobody else is coming. 00:48:44.800 --> 00:48:46.159 We have to be able to do it. 00:48:46.320 --> 00:48:49.440 So our mindset's got to be there to expect that fire. 00:48:49.679 --> 00:48:55.840 Then we've got to prepare for it, not only the standpipe operation, but the physical components of being able to do it. 00:48:56.000 --> 00:49:09.440 So for me as a Denver firefighter, for the years that I was a Denver firefighter, I knew that our tallest building in downtown Denver is 735 vertical feet, um, or you know, roughly 55 stories. 00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:18.079 I need to be able to climb 55 stories with all the equipment, and when I get there, I need to have enough left over to go to work. 00:49:18.239 --> 00:49:23.519 And if I can do that, then I'm in good shape, and I need to need to always be prepared for that. 00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:30.719 And the very best firefighters that we know um are the ones that have the ability to do that, both mentally and physically. 00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:34.960 Another part about this operation is getting the hose line in place, right? 00:49:35.119 --> 00:49:41.280 So um let's talk about that a little bit, whether it's from the floor below, making sure everything's flaked out right. 00:49:41.679 --> 00:49:53.920 Well, it our our good, I don't even want to call it a procedure or you know, it's really it needs to be a policy that um fire departments are hooking up from the floor below. 00:49:54.079 --> 00:49:56.159 If that that'd be the closest they'd come to. 00:49:56.320 --> 00:50:02.639 And that comes back to us having an umbilical cord that's going to take us out down and away from the fire. 00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:08.079 Uh a good case study that firefighters should look at is four leaf towers out of Houston, Texas. 00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:16.239 A very experienced, a very good fire officer from Houston lost his life in in a high-rise fire in that building. 00:50:16.400 --> 00:50:22.079 Um, it's a it's a little known fire because it occurred in October of 2001. 00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:30.719 And there was a whole lot going on uh with regard to high-rise and that sort of thing in October of 2001, based on what happened in Lower Manhattan. 00:50:31.039 -->

00:50:40.480 But um the initial attack line in Houston, Texas was hooked up on a fire floor hose valve outlet, uh a cabinet out in the hallway. 00:50:40.639 --> 00:50:54.320 Um, and I this is really it I really have a hard time with this because right now, with these new buildings, many of them calling them mid-rise, as you said at the beginning of the program, Chris. 00:50:54.559 --> 00:51:03.039 But these new buildings that have these block-long hallways, the fire protection people are putting intermediate hose valve outlets in those hallways. 00:51:03.119 --> 00:51:05.679 And they're saying, No problem, here's your hose valve outlet. 00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:10.880 And I try to explain to those fire protection folks, I say, I understand that you've put that here. 00:51:11.119 --> 00:51:17.679 I understand that it's behind fire doors, but we're gonna have to open the fire doors to stretch the line to attack the fire. 00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:25.360 And uh, our guy that's gonna be in that control position at that hose valve outlet, eventually the curtains are gonna come down. 00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:30.320 He's gonna have to go on air, and he's no longer gonna be able to see to even read the gauge. 00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:46.079 The most critical thing, though, is when those firefighters go into low air warning and they're gonna have to retreat, they're gonna retreat and they're gonna follow that hose line, and it's gonna take them to the middle of the Black Sea, and they're they're not gonna be able to find their way out from there. 00:51:46.239 --> 00:52:06.639 So um the floor below is a critical component for us for our standpipe operation because it will allow us when we need to, especially for an emergency egress, to follow that hose line out of that IDLH and down and hopefully uh uh completely out of the IDLH, but it's gonna get us to the stairwell for sure. 00:52:06.719 --> 00:52:08.480 And that that's a critical component. 00:52:08.719 --> 00:52:12.719 The other part of this, uh too, Chris and Jerry, is that stretching component. 00:52:12.880 --> 00:52:18.159 And I always, you know, we're gonna have one of two starting points for a standpipe operation. 00:52:18.320 --> 00:52:29.440 The starting point that we would like, we would like to do what we refer to as an apartment stretch, where we stretch up to the point of entry to that uh fire area. 00:52:29.599 --> 00:52:33.840 Uh most of our standpipe fires are gonna be in residential buildings. 00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:37.920 Most of them are gonna be in apartments, dorm rooms, hotel rooms, that sort of thing. 00:52:38.079 --> 00:52:45.440 And if we have control of a door that's closed, we can stretch dry up to that point of entry, making it pretty easy. 00:52:45.599 --> 00:52:54.400 And then even with two and a half, the only portion of that hose line that needs to be moved is usually usually the nozzle section for our most frequent fire. 00:52:54.559 --> 00:53:06.719 The other starting point would be from the stairwell when the fire is out of the box, out of that room, uh involving a commercial area, whatever the case may be, then that's a little bit more labor-intensive operation. 00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:20.639 The one point that we always try to make for firefighters is to practice these stretches, obviously, but especially for two and a half, that two and a half needs to be fully stretched out before we put water in it. 00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:26.320 And what I'm talking about is for the apartment stretch, fully stretched out, no piles of hose. 00:53:26.480 --> 00:53:33.519 Um, and any hose that's not used, we would stretch it out on the floor below, but absolutely no piles of hose. 00:53:33.599 --> 00:53:36.159 Like, hey, flake it out on the landing and give me some water. 00:53:36.239 --> 00:53:41.920 There's gonna be 10 kinks in your future, but it's got to be fully stretched out before we put water in it. 00:53:42.079 --> 00:53:56.639 And the last thing that I would say that we always have as part of our training is um, Chris, let's say that you and I are working for Jerry, and Chris, you're the senior guy, so you're on the nozzle, but the three of us got there before anybody else, and we have a fire. 00:53:56.800 --> 00:53:59.360 And I'm gonna be the control guy on the floor below. 00:53:59.519 --> 00:54:05.199 And Jerry does a reconnaissance and he comes back to us and 150 foot is gonna be apartment stretch. 00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:16.000 And then and we get the stretch completed, that sort of thing, and Chris, you're there with the nozzle, and Jerry's close to the door, and he's gonna crack it open and give you a look here in a second or two. 00:54:16.159 --> 00:54:20.079 But Jerry's gonna be calling for water now, and I'm the control guy. 00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:27.039 Before I give you guys water, I need to spend about 12 to 15 seconds looking at the whole thing. 00:54:27.280 --> 00:54:32.239 I gotta come up the stairs, I gotta look down to the hallway, I gotta see Jerry's eyes. 00:54:32.400 --> 00:54:45.519 Well, likely Jerry's gonna be coming the opposite direction and meeting me where that stairwell is, and he'll say, our stretch is good here, I can see it's good, he can see it's good, I can see nothing bad has happened in the stairwell. 00:54:45.679 --> 00:54:53.119 We're talking about hose falling into those gaps, uh, a door becoming unwedged, and and well, you guys have done it. 00:54:53.199 --> 00:54:59.599 You've done it at HRock, and you've made done the video where the door comes over the closed line and then it gets charged. 00:54:59.679 --> 00:55:06.239 Uh, those are those are uh those are game-ending opera uh situations when that happens. 00:55:06.480 --> 00:55:12.559 So as the control guy, Jerry calls for water, he's the one that trained me, so he knows what I'm doing. 00:55:12.639 --> 00:55:19.920 He knows the water's not gonna be there instantaneously, but I'm making my way up, I'm checking to make sure

everything's out good. 00:55:20.079 --> 00:55:21.760 He's making his way towards me. 00:55:21.920 --> 00:55:24.000 We've both seen the whole thing, it's good. 00:55:24.159 --> 00:55:26.800 There's no piles of hose, the door hasn't closed over it. 00:55:26.960 --> 00:55:28.960 I can go back and give him water. 00:55:29.199 --> 00:55:38.800 And now when I give him water, I'm gonna give him water slowly because as we did this as part of our our our operation when we filmed in Minnesota. 00:55:38.960 --> 00:55:48.800 But if I give standpipe water fast, uh the the hose that's coming up from the floor below is already fighting gravity because it's going up stairs and it's dry. 00:55:48.960 --> 00:55:55.519 And if I give that that uh if I charge that line fast, I'm gonna draw hose down. 00:55:55.679 --> 00:55:58.079 I'm gonna pull it down, I'm gonna have a pile of hose. 00:55:58.239 --> 00:56:04.400 I've got to give it slowly until I've got some weight in that hose, and then I can finish opening it up. 00:56:04.480 --> 00:56:06.239 And then and then I'm gonna stay there. 00:56:06.320 --> 00:56:16.159 I'm Johnny on the spot because as Jerry pushes that door open a little bit, and Chris, you uh have that line pointed up towards the flashover atmosphere, and you open it up. 00:56:16.320 --> 00:56:23.679 That's my opportunity now with that LCART inline pressure gauge to fine-tune it to the appropriate pressure. 00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:29.440 So I always tell guys, Chris is gonna put some medicine on the disease. 00:56:29.599 --> 00:56:34.079 I'm gonna adjust the dosage as soon as he he starts giving some medicine. 00:56:34.159 --> 00:56:36.639 I'm gonna adjust the dosage from my position. 00:56:36.800 --> 00:56:44.400 And after I get that adjusted, you guys will be operating a couple of uh on-offs of the nozzle with you, Chris. 00:56:44.559 --> 00:56:46.400 I can verify, yeah, I'm I'm good. 00:56:46.480 --> 00:56:48.960 I'm at 70, I'm at 75, whatever it is. 00:56:49.119 --> 00:56:54.559 I'll probably sneak down the hose line all the way to the apartment and holler at Jerry, how's your pressure? 00:56:54.719 --> 00:56:55.119 You good? 00:56:55.199 --> 00:56:56.079 Do you need anything? 00:56:56.239 --> 00:56:57.440 We're good, pressure's good. 00:56:57.519 --> 00:57:07.440 We we got the fire knocked down, we're just doing a search, and then I'll sneak back down to my post at that uh that control position because uh don't want anybody to leave that position. 00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:11.760 But with limited staffing, sometimes you come away from it and then come back to it. 00:57:11.920 --> 00:57:15.679 But critical that we we we we properly stretch. 00:57:15.840 --> 00:57:20.079 I always tell guys it's got to be fully stretched out so there's no piles of hose. 00:57:20.239 --> 00:57:31.440 And then when my officer Jerry calls for water as his control guy, I'm gonna take a quick look at the whole thing to make sure I don't have any problems, and then I'll come back and I'm gonna give water slowly. 00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:38.159 And uh those are some of those uh I guess finesse items, Chris, with regard to the standpoint. 00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:41.360 Where you start your stretch, it's it's a big deal. 00:57:41.519 --> 00:57:49.920 And uh to tack on to to your pet peeve on the hose or the the hookup that's you know in the mid mid-length of a long hallway. 00:57:50.079 --> 00:57:55.920 The one that always drives me nuts is the occupant use hose cabinet, right? 00:57:56.320 --> 00:58:13.519 That's been a a dream of mine now to stay inside of a building that has a high-rise fire, and I can pop out in the hallway in the middle of the night in my boxer shorts and pull that linen hose that's been hanging there for 60 years and open that valve and start fighting fire, right? 00:58:14.079 --> 00:58:15.519 Nice little red plastic nozzle, yeah. 00:58:15.679 --> 00:58:22.960 The little plastic nozzle, yeah, and and uh um the fire department shows up, and you know, you never give up the nozzle, right? 00:58:23.039 --> 00:58:31.920 So, you know, make it um but uh you know, once we started uh, you know, the the increaser has become popular, right? 00:58:32.079 --> 00:58:38.320 The inch and a half to two and a half, so it's a inch and a half inch female to two and a half inch male. 00:58:38.480 --> 00:58:41.599 So right away to what I well, we can just hook this right up here. 00:58:41.679 --> 00:58:49.519 We can unhook the linen hose and we can hook this right up to the hose cabinet, and we've got another place to hook up. 00:58:49.840 --> 00:58:51.519 Couple things wrong with that. 00:58:51.760 --> 00:59:04.559 First of all, you know, per NFPA, that that valve that's supplying that again, ageless linen hose that's in there, uh, it says it right in the standard, it's limited to 100 gallons a minute. 00:59:04.639 --> 00:59:09.519 So although it's gonna fill up your hose with water, you're not getting two and a half water out of that. 00:59:09.840 --> 00:59:25.280 The other part of it is uh the way that class of system is designed, most of the time, if you see one of those uh linen hose cabinets, uh find a stairwell door really close and you can peek around, and usually they share a valve, maybe on the other side of the wall or or even in the cabinet. 00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:34.559 But that's another that's another pet peeve of mine, too, since we were talking about a few of those today, is is taking that increaser and putting it on that, yeah, that where that linen hose hooks up. 00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:36.639 That's that it don't that you're gonna get in trouble. 00:59:36.719 --> 00:59:39.039 You you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna play the gamble game on that. 00:59:39.280 --> 00:59:40.880 Big time, big time for sure. 00:59:41.199 --> 00:59:51.840 Yeah, I I would just you you got me thinking again about those long hallways, and and um many fire departments have reduced their automatic alarm uh assignment.

00:59:52.159 --> 00:59:57.440 Um I believe that a minimum automatic alarm assignment should be an engine, truck, and a chief. 00:59:57.599 --> 01:00:04.159 You can get a line stretched, you can start a search, you can start to build a basic uh command framework with that. 01:00:04.400 --> 01:00:12.400 And uh some of the more significant fires that I've been to in these buildings over the course of time started out as automatic alarms. 01:00:12.559 --> 01:00:16.719 And and I I I want the listeners to to realize that and understand that. 01:00:16.880 --> 01:00:21.119 But many departments have reduced that automatic alarm assignment. 01:00:21.280 --> 01:00:33.039 So I can see where uh a single company, usually with three firefighters, officer and two firefighters, is in a hallway, they're looking, and boom, all of a sudden, there it is. 01:00:33.199 --> 01:00:40.719 We we have this apartment that's on fire, and they're in the middle of this 400-foot-long hallway, then there's an immediate hose valve outlet. 01:00:40.880 --> 01:00:42.239 Uh, I don't like it. 01:00:42.400 --> 01:00:51.280 Uh I wish they didn't have to do it, but I understand they may be painted into a corner to where that's where they've got to hook up their attack line and go to work. 01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:57.519 And it's it's a it's dangerous, it's not good, but I understand how sometimes they may end up having to make that decision. 01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:13.199 If if your listeners find themselves in that position, uh hopefully they're calling for help because they're gonna need a lot of help, but somehow they got to get a message to whoever that incident commander is, preferably the chief, hey, we stretched from the fire floor. 01:01:13.440 --> 01:01:45.119 And so that that in my case, if I'm the chief that's there, I'm gonna try and build something that creates that umbilical cord for them, the backup line that truly comes from the floor below, or the backup line that might come from the outside, uh, but uh we can get another crew in contact with that initial crew to where when they start going into low alarm, those that crew can put that initial crew on the right path to get them out of the building uh or to a uh an area of refuge, whatever the case may be. 01:01:45.360 --> 01:02:02.400 Um I I I don't mean to be bagging on the fire protection community, but right now in our fire service, we're in a really critically dangerous time because there's a whole bot, whole lot of construction that's going on that is ultra dangerous for us and for the occupants. 01:02:02.559 --> 01:02:25.519 And one of them is the the 400-foot-long hallways with those intermediate hose valve outlets, but you guys have seen this, and I don't know if it's happening for you back east, Jerry, or for you, Chris, in Indiana, but the state of Colorado, the governor, recently signed into law allowing for one stairwell and multiple dwelling buildings. 01:02:26.000 --> 01:02:31.519 Now, if somebody that was a proponent of that was listening to this, they would say, Oh, Dave, wait a minute. 01:02:31.679 --> 01:02:35.519 That's for that's for smaller buildings, six stories, you know, that sort of thing. 01:02:35.679 --> 01:02:37.280 To me, the door is open. 01:02:37.440 --> 01:02:39.679 And and it's all about money and politics. 01:02:39.920 --> 01:02:48.719 And I'm afraid that that we're gonna continue to see more of that single stairwell construction, and soon it's gonna be well into the high-rise realm. 01:02:48.880 --> 01:03:03.280 And the people that are doing it doing that, they don't understand fires may still occur in these buildings that are allegedly fully sprinklered, because as I told my uh the people whenever I'm doing a training drill, there's really no such thing as a fully sprinklered building. 01:03:03.360 --> 01:03:05.920 Uh, the three of us could burn it to the ground for sure. 01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:07.119 Uh, we know how. 01:03:07.360 --> 01:03:14.400 Um, but but once they do the single stairwell, we can't have an attack and evacuation stairwell. 01:03:14.480 --> 01:03:16.400 There's only going to be an attack stairwell. 01:03:16.559 --> 01:03:19.679 It's going to be contaminated, it's going to be hard to get people out of there. 01:03:19.840 --> 01:03:29.199 But my point is there's a whole lot going on uh within the fire protection community realm that's not helping us on the fire suppression side of things. 01:03:29.360 --> 01:03:31.840 And and it's it's very scary and it's very frightening. 01:03:31.920 --> 01:03:39.039 And I think that uh younger generation firefighters are gonna encounter things that that I haven't even imagined yet. 01:03:39.360 --> 01:03:40.239 It's concerning. 01:03:41.760 --> 01:03:54.400 I think uh that's that's a great kind of tie-in to wrap it up here, which was the answer to the first question of Shechet from the regular session of Stamp Pipe but a lot, a lot comes down to knowing your buildings, right? 01:03:54.480 --> 01:03:57.039 And that's you guys are gonna face that in Colorado now. 01:03:57.119 --> 01:03:59.199 That's gonna be a generational change. 01:03:59.360 --> 01:04:15.360 Those buildings are gonna be there for a long time, and knowing what's in your first due, your second due, or even your neighboring department, like I'll tell the guys in my department that quite a bit of um you know, we've got every hotel chain imaginable, but nothing over five stories. 01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:19.119 But we've got the University of Notre Dame right behind us. 01:04:19.280 --> 01:04:26.480 So although we might not be first due on a stamp pipe fire in our district, we might be hitting the valve on a fire with our neighbors. 01:04:26.719 --> 01:04:34.800 So, not just looking at what's in your community, but uh it's gonna be one heck of a party, and there's a lot of people coming to this party when it's a stamp pipe fire. 01:04:35.119 --> 01:04:35.440 Absolutely. 01:04:35.599 --> 01:04:38.239 And I let me

just add one last thing. 01:04:38.320 --> 01:04:52.559 I know we got to wrap up here, but I would rather the three of us uh have to respond to a fire on the 40th floor where we've got to climb stairs in a 60s vintage high-rise building with two stairwells and just a good old-fashioned center hallway. 01:04:52.639 --> 01:05:04.000 I would rather have that fire all day and all night than the fire somewhere in the middle of this block-long building on whatever floor that has minimal stairwells and really long hallways. 01:05:04.079 --> 01:05:09.440 I'd I'd much rather go to the taller 60s vintage high-rise building any day. 01:05:09.920 --> 01:05:10.800 Yeah, I would agree. 01:05:11.920 --> 01:05:14.079 Well, uh, Dave, uh, thanks again. 01:05:14.159 --> 01:05:25.599 There's uh lots of nuggets here to unpack, and uh, I think it gives uh the listeners a lot to uh digest and and talk about and share with their crews and their first due and something to think about next time they roll in. 01:05:25.920 --> 01:05:27.599 Yeah, I appreciate it too, Dave. 01:05:27.679 --> 01:05:37.920 It's um you know, our objective here is is the things we couldn't say when we were trying to film it in three or four minutes, you know, uh for brass tacks artifacts and all the questions that everybody has. 01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:39.599 Now we just kind of put it together. 01:05:39.920 --> 01:05:43.920 And you know, as always, you're you make yourself available to the fire service as a resource. 01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:48.719 They know how to get a hold of you, uh, they know how to get a hold of us, and and that's you know, that's what we're after. 01:05:48.800 --> 01:05:52.239 Let's we're we're closing the circle a little bit and then just continue. 01:05:53.119 --> 01:05:54.159 But thank you for your time. 01:05:54.480 --> 01:05:56.159 I would thank you guys for your time. 01:05:56.239 --> 01:05:58.719 Uh, and I'm flattered, Nodded, that you would invite me. 01:05:58.880 --> 01:06:02.639 And and just one quick shout out to both of you guys and your company. 01:06:02.800 --> 01:06:06.079 Uh, you you guys have uh set the standard. 01:06:06.320 --> 01:06:20.719 And what what you created these many years ago, um, by virtue of your fire service backgrounds and certainly your work within LCART, is you've bridged that gap between a company that sells products and the fire service. 01:06:20.960 --> 01:06:26.480 And and uh that that's made it for us, it's a much more user-friendly thing. 01:06:26.639 --> 01:06:44.639 And obviously, I'm a huge proponent of your company and your products, but it's because of a lot of work that's been done over the years, not the least of the work that's been done by you two guys to uh make sure that uh Alcart Brass is a company that truly serves the fire service and truly serves firefighters. 01:06:44.719 --> 01:06:52.880 And I'm very proud that we have those beautiful bags and those beautiful equipment packages in every engine company on the Denver Fire Department. 01:06:53.039 --> 01:06:56.800 That was one of the things I wanted to accomplish before I retired and we did it. 01:06:56.880 --> 01:07:01.599 And I'm happy it's there because that equipment is the best in the business, and it's because of you guys. 01:07:01.679 --> 01:07:02.000 Thank you. 01:07:02.320 --> 01:07:03.679 Thanks for saying that, Dave. 01:07:03.840 --> 01:07:04.800 Thanks a lot, Dave. 01:07:04.960 --> 01:07:06.559 And uh thanks again, everybody. 01:07:06.800 --> 01:07:07.920 Appreciate it.