Full Transcript for S2-E14: Joshua-Klitschko (2017)

couple weeks ago just 'cause I remembered it being a robbery and I wanted to see if it still was. I had it nine three for Schultz. He's the uncrowned heavyweight champ. That's a shame. he should've he should have been the champ. Not that he would have held it long. speaker-0: But yeah, but still it's like it's one of those things where you know unfairly got taken away. So Klitschko then has a third loss, three fights later to Lehman Brewster. If you're wondering, that is that is Ross Purity, Corey Sanders, Lehman Brewster hung each hung knockout losses on on Vladimir Klitschko, and then he goes on his twenty two fight win streak after that. Some of are by One of is a T D I don't know what a T Dis T decision is. Technical decision. from an accidental head clash. That was the first fight back. Then he has wins against Samuel Peter, Chris Byrd, Ray Austin, Lehman Brewster, Sultan Abrogamov, Hassim Rachman, Ruslan Shigayev, Samuel Peter, David Hay was probably one of those guys who was considered maybe one of the best fighters of this dark age era. and that wasn't speaker-1: User weight moving up. speaker-0: Yeah, and that w and he was he was another one of those guys who's really big and magnificently built. I mean, you know, th this is an era where you see a lot of big guys, but they're not terrific. They're not necessarily terrific. And he has so though this is the long way of saying that Klitschko's reign lasted twenty two fights until he ran into Tyson Fury who beat him in a unanimous decision. Mate basically made him look goofy, you know, 'cause Fury's bigger Then then Klitschko Klitschko didn't usually fight fighters who were taller than him, but of course Tyson Fury's taller than everybody, pretty much. and so then he essentially quits boxing for almost well, for a year and a half. A year and a half, and then decides to come back when Joshua has problems lining up a fight to defend his title and so to to and to get a fight with Fury and as a result, he's gonna fight. Anthony Joshua is gonna fight. Vladimir Klitschko. speaker-1: And they're also as a bonus thrown in the vacant WBA title. speaker-0: Yes, which w which I think you could make a case that he was probably, you know, especially with with Fury not not being anything Fury's being out of boxing at this point and with four hundred pounds and eating bar food, eating beer nuts in a pub somewhere, there was really nobody else to give that to. I guess you already at this point you already have our our good buddy Deontay Wilder as a heavyweight champion. and he's undefeated too at this point, right? So but they decided to you but you know, the rate the the boxing associations are certainly not gonna make any sense and give it to give him a title shot. They're just gonna hand this belt to the winner of this fight. So so yeah, so we have at this point then coming into this fight, like I said, eighteen and Anthony Joshua, who's a Brit, and a big dude, a good looking guy. He's one of the most what do you call it, sponsored athletes in the world. although he's had some com he's had some controversies about him I was reading up on. He said some controversial things, you know, things that could be construed as you know, black superior black is black superiority, calling other people you know, bad things related to their race, both white and black and stuff like that. but but whatever you can say whatever else you want to say about him, he's a scary looking dude. and he's dangerous with both hands. So speaker-1: Yeah, this is a this is a clo really a truly a classic young lion versus old lion fight. 'Cause they're light years apart in experience. Yes. You know, J Joshua has forty four rounds, Klitschko's forty one and has had sixty eight fights for Crane Alaska. speaker-0: fights than than Joshua has rounds. That's speaker-1: That's speaker-0: amazing. Almost d almost double. I mean it really, it's like eight you know, sixty eight fights Klitschko's had and Joshua is somewhere in the thirties in rounds, did you say? Forty four. Forty four. speaker-1: Yeah, so so Klitschko has more knockouts than than speaker-0: That's pretty amazing. But but but the most magnificent thing about this fight, and somebody mentioned it, I like that they mentioned it during this fight. There's a quarter ton of fighters in the ring. they are both six foot six, and they are both big. Klitschko's coming in lighter than he has for quite a while at two forty. He looks cut out of stone. And and Anthony Joshua's six six, two fifty, and is just I mean, there's he does not look like he's carrying extra weight. That guy is. enormous. Those arms. speaker-1: Yeah, he looks like Evander Holyfield except that Evander's six two. Yeah, I so the thing is is that you don't have any scale because you have another guy the same size in there with them. So it looks like two two hundred and twenty pounders. These are two two hundred and forty, fifty pounders. speaker-0: Yeah, they and again they just don't look that big because they look like normally proportioned human beings until you put them up against a normally proportioned human being and you're like, My God, why are they so much bigger than them? I was thinking about this. We just had our buddy Drew Mitchell on our podcast. Drew was the tallest kid in our high school in Idaho Falls at six foot six. These guys are the as big as Drew Mitchell, except they're built like heavyweight boxers. My God. speaker-1: Do they carry the thunderbolt like Drew does? speaker-0: Well that's a good point. I mean I that's exactly right. Can either of them dunk a basketball? I don't know. Can Drew dunk a basketball? I do recall seeing it. I don't remember how fantastic it was. I know that Drew could speaker-1: He had a big curve, I know that. speaker-0: Drew could quote unquote dunk a basketball, unquote. So he doesn't have hops but he did he did he was built like Kevin McHale, don't tell him I said that, but speaker-1: Just like our good buddy

Jeremy Foreman can quote unquote date a girl. yeah. speaker-0: Uh-huh. huh All right. So this is an interesting fight then. I mean so this by the way is gonna be in Wembley Stadium outdoors at night in April. and it is gonna be before eighty th they sold eighty thousand tickets for this fight, making it the US a UK box office record and they said it was the largest crowd it for any sports event in England since nineteen thirty nine. speaker-1: Well speaker-0: So that's pretty pretty amazing to think that that was the case. by the way, th and it the pay per view sold more fights in England than even Mayweather Pacquiao. But again, this is a Brit fighting for the heavyweight championship, right? Which was kind of sort of unheard of. I guess David A did it and stuff like that. didn't win. but now it's like now now it's kinda like old hat because for a while there were three champions, two of them were Brits and so Now the one there's one guy and he's a basically a Brit, so yeah. speaker-1: Fight fans know when something's the real heavyweight championship or if it's just a belt. And this is a big deal because you got the long time former champ and and this this is gonna validate the winner, whoever wins. speaker-0: Yeah, and and again we mentioned Klitschko had been outpointed by by Tyson Fury, but Tyson Fury had to vacate those titles because he was he tested positive for drugs and that I don't think it vacated his win. They didn't give the belts back to Vladimir. speaker-1: No, they didn't cover it at no contest, so I'd be curious what happened there. Yeah. It must have been sometime after the fight, maybe. speaker-0: Yeah, I think they just stripped him of the titles that he had won and so so, you know, you're like, Well, they basically basically that left the big hole of the guy who had beaten the man who was champ for ten years and now he's not even in the game anymore, just mur that was disappeared without another fight, basically. And so that's listed this is a gaping hole in the heavyweight division that was, like you said, one of the worst dark ages of boxing for ten years and then all of a sudden Looks really interesting at at at this point in this f with this fight 'cause Joshua's coming up. You got Tyson Fury, who was who came and swept in, knocked the king off the throne and then disappeared again. Maybe he'll resurface, maybe he won't. And then there's that other guy, the American Browns bomber, Deontay Wilder, by the way, did he w this was he a he was a bronze medalist. Was that the same year in London? Good lord. Good lord. Anthony Josh did and they didn't fight each other, I assume, in the Olympics. speaker-1: That's not no. speaker-0: I don't know. Yeah, I guess so so I assume what happened is Wilder lost in the semifinals to the guy that are is is it possible that Wilder was fighting at the regular heavyweight, not the super heavyweight? Is that speaker-1: I can't imagine. I can't imagine that's true. He's so big. speaker-0: Yeah,

I know 'cause I know he fought at two twelve in you know, in the last couple of years. But but two twelve is two twelve is still super heavyweight, isn't it? So I don't know. It's like one speaker-1: But yeah, my guess I'm sure if they had fought in the amateurs, we everybody would have heard about it, like we did with Lewis and Bo. Yeah. You know. Everybody knew that Lewis had beat Bo in the Olympics. And I'm sure if if Joshua had beaten Wilder everybody would know that speaker-0: Be able to say, I beat you. We fought before and I beat you. That's the that's the thing. So so this is an amazing fight. Klitschko at 41, chiseled a PhD. He's Dr. What did they call him? I can't remember what they called him, Dr. Death or something like that. Steel hammer. speaker-1: Like steel hand. speaker-0: Dr. Steelhammer, that's right. Yeah, he's a chess grandmaster like his brother. He's got a PhD, he's got unbelievable power with both hands, and he's got This is the negative side, a bit of a suspect chin, right? It's been a long time since anybody knocked him out, but he's been knocked out by three journeyman question mark. I think I think they're a level above journeyman, all three of those guys are, but not a lot. They that's what passed for the they're what passed for second or third tier box, you know, heavyweights back in the day, right? they they're kind of Tommy Morrison of their era, as it were. But speaker-1: Pretty amazing how he turned his career around, honestly. But again, like you said, the the other knock is to not only is he raining during a terrible decade, but he won't fight the only true challenge to his crown, which is Big Brother. speaker-0: Yeah, and and the one thing I will add that you're right, he wouldn't fight the the one guy who was obviously the other the the other class of the division. My favorite anecdote about Vladimir Klitschko, of course, is that we never did see him fight a truly great heavyweight. Except we did sort of. You you have you never seen the remake of of what are you Oceans Eleven? Right. The George Clooney one. So th that's all built around a heavyweight championship fight between Lodimir Klitschko and Lennox Lewis. And they appear in the ring and they and they pretend to be boxing each other in the ring when the power goes out because of the plan to rob the casinos, right? speaker-1: That's when that's what Lewis was working on, I remember right before he got knocked off by speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so it's kind of interesting, that maybe he forgot that, you know, he he was thinking, yeah, that's right, we're just we're just joshing around in here. and Oops I for I forgot we're actually fighting for reals. Yeah, but it's interesting because that's a that's a fight where I remember watching that movie going, Why can't we see this fight for real? God, that would be a great fight 'cause Lennox, you know, beat you know, fighting the younger guy. Well, he hadn't fought the older brother yet, so him fighting

a Klitschko 'cause those guys Again, you know, this I keep he I I sound like Jay continuing to beat on the same point over and over and over again, but this era of the giant heavyweights really was started by those two. You know, Lennox Lewis and Riddick Bo were already there earlier, but now basically every heavyweight champion, even even when Joshua lost the first time to Anthony Ruiz or when he lost to Anthony Ruiz a little bit later in his career, did I spoil anything? I didn't, did I? Okay. Yeah. It's like that guy was a heavyweight, although he wasn't the same kind of heavyweight as you if you if you get my meaning. speaker-1: He may be getting a shot at Fury I read today. If they can't agree to Dillian White. Ruiz is on the very short list of two possible replacements. speaker-0: Ruiz against Tyson Fury? Yeah. Whoo, that's a that'd be a s a scale interesting difference in scale, although not on the scale, I guess. But that's a you know, I guess last time I thought Ruiz fight he was he was he was much lower weight than he had been before. So speaker-1: Yeah, he's trimmed up, but he's a short fighter. He's w quite a bit shorter than Joshua. speaker-0: Yeah, it was it was really weird. All right, but we're definitely off topic. I s I apologize. I've taken the meandering Oxbow River path through the history of these two guys. But let's get to the particulars of this. Like I said, Wembley Stadium, outdoors, nighttime, beautiful views. Referee is David Fields for this bout. he's a big guy, in general, but not tonight. He's not. I don't really know that I'd want to get between these two guys. Again speaker-1: Didn't they say this is his first title fight? speaker-0: I don't remember them saying that. I remember them saying something about it and then I probably and then I stopped paying attention. That would be interesting. This is your first title fight and it's this one. Yikes. Yeah. Don't you want to do Welter Waits your first title fight if you're a if you're a referee or something like that? speaker-1: I was like, what, they didn't have super bantams or something fighting in, you know, the the Moose Lodge hall somewhere? speaker-0: Again, a combined weight of four hundred and ninety pounds. And that's at the weigh in. Almost certainly they're over five hundred at fight time, right? Almost certainly. speaker-1: Well there's no reason to change your weight as a heavy speaker-0: That's a good point. I for I forget. They're not cutting weight, although they probably didn't skimp on the sandwiches the night before the fight either. So I certainly wouldn't be doing that. All right, so this is a twelve round bout for the IBF heavyweight belt. speaker-1: And W. speaker-0: And the W and the Vacant WBA, of course, because the WBC is currently held by at this Brown bom bronze bomber. I keep saying brown bomber. It's a bronze bomber. All right, so around which do you want to start first? or should I? speaker-1: Started first yesterday. speaker-0: All right, so round one. Both fighters start out very tentatively pawing. There's a double jab by Joshua, an overhand right by Joshua, and then they clinch. That's a pretty early clinch. We've seen a lot of fights where there weren't a lot of clinches until late, and this is this is not one of them. Joshua leaps in with a one two that misses. Klitschko throws a left hook. Joshua goes to the body. Joshua throws a right that misses and then a one two that lands. I put the Joshua is much busier than Klitschko. Klitschko's not throwing very much. they don't look like they're quite ready to mix it up for serious yet. Klitschko jabs mostly this round and and I wrote, These guys are enormous. You know, it's not until you see them kind of next to their cornerman that you truly appreciate that. But yeah, I thought this was an easy round. Josh w lad didn't do much, ten nine Joshua. speaker-1: Yeah, I I have real similar notes. both I put both are pawing their jabs. There's a right left by Joshua. Both guys look like they're in terrific shape. Yeah. I wrote nothing first half of the round. they're both just kinda, you know, fainting and you know standing. lead left hook by Joshua, right to the body by Joshua. Klitschko is still tentative. I put a cautious first round goes to Joshua based on his couple of good shots and a slightly better jab. So yeah, I mean Klitschko didn't do anything except you know, get ac acclimated to the building. You know, he's you know, y I don't know how much ring rust you have if you're you know, a year and a half after a loss probably. speaker-0: Well yeah, I mean you're you're a you're a forty one year old guy who's been off for a year and a half. you have a you know you've had a suspect chin in the past a couple times and you're fighting a guy who has never not knocked a guy out early. Yeah. You're not taking chances early. You're gonna be you're gonna be easing yourself into this fight. speaker-1: And they said that if I remember right, that Joshua had never been past seven. So speaker-0: Yeah. Right. So why speaker-1: so yeah, get some rounds and can drag him out into the deep water and see if he can swim. I think that makes sense. But yeah, he really didn't you know, that's not like that was a a a lot of exertion for Joshua. You know, he didn't have to do anything 'cause Klitschko was just pawing basically. But yeah, it's you know, he got got his feet under him, I guess. speaker-0: Yeah, there you go. I think so. All right. So how's round two look to you then? speaker-1: Round two, nice right by Klitschka right at the start. they're both still pawing with the jab. Joshua lands a couple shots. has not I don't know what the hell I wrote. they trade speaker-0: Ladies and gentlemen, you can't get this analysis on any other podcast right here. This is where it's at, baby. speaker-1: I put he's something th he's something through the round. I don't know what he what I wrote. Silicash's pace, very close round. I put I'm going with

Klitschko he was dictating the pace and he had a big right at the start. I didn't mean like in the first three seconds. That's how little action there was in this round. So I gave it to Klitschko just basically more on a hunch than anything. speaker-0: Yeah, I will not lie, I thought that Klitschko had the best punch of the round, but that was his only punch of consequence in the round. And you know, there was an overhand right that that Joshua slipped. Jo th Joshua does a good job of eluding Klitschko when Klitschko throws kind of those horizontal hooks, the bent elbow hooks like that. Joshua's really good this whole fight at ducking those. he makes he makes Klitschko miss a lot with his head movement. For a guy as big as him, you know, he must he must have studied film and known when those punches are coming and where they're going to be that good at ducking those. 'Cause he's not like backing out of the way. He's literally s d you know, ducking and they're swooping over his head. and and he also d but Klitschko does a co does some good stuff here. He he also slips a jab at some point. you know, and then Joshua double jabs him. and then a right lands on the shoulder and then he throws a combination. there's still tentative for both guys. and like I said, I think I I pointed out that Klitschko only had that one punch consequence. It was a great punch landing that big overhand right or it's a straight right at the start of the round, right on the button. Doesn't stagger Joshua, but it's a big punch. I I if I were him, I would make sure he doesn't walk into another one of those to start a round. But I gave round two to Joshua. I thought about giving it to Klitschko for that big overhand or that big straight right, but it was the only punch he really did that I thought was really good. It was the best punch of the fight so far. but not enough. So round three, guess what? the first punch Klitschko throws is a straight right hand and it lands right on the button again. Son of a bitch. He walked into those two rounds in a row. I'm like, okay, next round, seriously, look for that right hand coming on that first punch. Okay, that's my advice to you, Anthony. Look for that right hand coming. but then Joshua knocks him back with a right hand right back at him and I think I think it wasn't so much that he hit him with it and it fell back. I think he caught Klitschko kind of moving backwards when the right hand landed and it looked worse than it was. Yeah, the Klitschko's was better is what I'm saying, but but but Joshua's moved Klitschko better away than his did. Then there's the then they close rank and throws a one two and then there's a clinch. I'm gonna say that a lot. There's they mix it up and Joshua misses an uppercut but lands right and then goes to the body. It's a slower pace halfway through the round. Klitschko goes head body and then clinch. Joshua attacks with a one-two that gets blocked. Another clinch. And then and then Klitschko slips a left hook or Klitschko throws a left hook that gets slipped by Joshua and then they clinch. Joshua misses a one two. They you know Compubox says, and I I heard I or I scored this round for Joshua and then heard after the round that CompuBox says that Klitschko landed only one power shot in that round. And then he's not throwing men he's not throwing many jabs and he only lands one power shot. I would say that Joshua that was that first one, by the way, and it was a good one again, but he it's when you only land that big first one and then you don't land another one, the the the the eye test says that you didn't have a good round. So I gave round three to Joshua. speaker-1: Yeah, I'm gonna say that ever since I went to Fury Wilder three, which I then came home and ordered on Dv D from whoever burnt these things, right? Yes. And I got all three fights and and and basically that's somebody recording the pay view and putting it on disc. And they have compu box or whatever punch punch stats in that fight. And that fight starts off in the first round. I'm talking still about Fury Wilder three. Good left jab to the stomach by Wilder. Nothing. Another good left s jab to the stomach. Nothing. I mean and and I have it six landed clean punches before the punch stat guy puts down his bong and starts scoring. So I I take all those stats with a grain of salt, right? Because it's just somebody you know I don't know what they're doing sometimes, but I have never trusted it since that fight. I'm like, that's blatant. They were way off. speaker-0: I'll tell you what, if they paid for the for each punch they mark, they would be marking more punches. That's all I'm saying. So speaker-1: Well and I will say that you know, we just did Robinson Gaddy once. speaker-0: Yep. speaker-1: my margins were packed with notes, every line written and doubled over. I've got plenty of space on the speaker-0: Yeah. This is you're go Rob's going, Why is this fight of the year? speaker-1: I wasn't doing that, but I but you know, they're heavyweights, right? So you know, there's and heavyweights now, I was talking to you about this the other day. Heavyweights now are so big and hit so hard that you just can't have the the crazy wars because someone's gonna get knocked out. speaker-0: They wouldn't last that long though exactly. So all right. So well so yeah, so so your render your your notes are pretty sparse compared to the last. speaker-1: You'd think I would have wrote bigger and made him legible. Anyway, right left by Joshua. I didn't even even with all that being said, I didn't even get the big right from from Klitschka. I must have missed it. big right uppercut though by Joshua and he throws a handful of shots in the first minute. Klitschko is jabbing more and then there's a sloppy overhand right by Joshua, some nice jabs by Joshua. I put this is a busier better round for Joshua, so I also gave it to him ten nine. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: So at the quarter pole I've got a two

one, you've got a three zip, right? speaker-0: Yeah, pretty much, yep. speaker-1: All right. Well things are about to change, Butch. speaker-0: Ooh, all right. speaker-1: I thought and and correct me if I'm if I'm stealing your line here, but a big straight a big straight rival to start by Clutch Job. speaker-0: not see that coming for the third round in a row. And more to the point, I'm I'm watching that he gets hit by that straight right three three rounds in a row to start the round and I'm like, if you are if you are the bronze bomber and you're watching film of Anthony Joshua and you're playing it for a fight, you're like, I'm throwing the big right hand first thing. Every round. That's the punch I'm throwing. Every round. I'm one of 'em's gonna catch him and if I hit him with my straight right hand he's out. Right? speaker-1: Yeah. Because we now have the benefit of five years of hindsight. you and I suspect that Joshua may be a little chinny. speaker-0: Well they were talking in this fight, like he's shown a ch he'd shown the tendency to get wobbled before, so speaker-1: okay. speaker-0: he'd bought some big hitters earlier in his career. Dillian White's famous for being a pretty big hitter, for example. speaker-1: Yeah, he's the guy due next for Fury for some reason. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: anyway, he gets stunned by the big right at the start. And then he throws a straight right of his own. Another right hand by Klitschko, so at least he's starting to let it go fly a little. nice right to the right to the body by Joshua. Joshua lands a heavy right. Left hook by Joshua. I put very close round. Joshua Bizier, but Klitschko landed the harder shots. very close. but I gave it to Klitschko, so I have it two two two. And I've given two razor thin rounds to Klitschko. It could be four zip. Let's see what you say. speaker-0: Well, Butch says four zip. So yeah, I thought the one thing I did notice in here also is that the referee warned Joshua for going low and on a hitting on a break and hitting low on a break. but you know, the Klitschko's better this round and the last thing I wrote down was that Klitschko started off well, but he gave it back to Joshua mid round, late round. that the Joshua stayed active and Klitschko got less active and so it's it I'm not p I'm not pleased with myself that I have it four nothing at this point. I don't think it's that one sided of a fight at this point. But that's why I've been scoring. I mean so I've got to stick with it. So at at the end of four speaker-1: Third of the way through, are you thinking fight of the year? speaker-0: no. No. No, I mean I it it's like at this point you're going, I don't get what's gonna happen. But you know, when you know a fight's fight of the year and you've seen it like this so far, you know something's gotta be coming. Round speaker-1: Yep. speaker-0: five. Okay. speaker-1: Except in any way Donair. Then you wait and wait and wait and the final bell rings. speaker-0: Yep. Yep. so so so Joshua comes out and Joshua lands ver a very le early left hook. and then instead of getting hit with another right, which is good, Klitschko holds on as Joshua goes on the attack, but then, you know, is there he he gets is this where he's cut on the eye? Yeah, so he takes a he takes a cut in the eye and then And then all of a sudden a short some short hooks l inside land and Klitschko goes down. And and gets up pretty quickly. he g he he's dropped by a by a Joshua left there. And then, you know, they get up, they Joshua lands another and they clinch. and then there's a good right hook. Klitschko misses a hook and then lands a good one, but button you know, and and then he hurts Joshua all of a sudden and now Joshua's hurt and Klitschko's back in it. but Joshua does good job of slipping some of those power again, even when he's slightly stunned, Joshua's hurt at this point. He had Klitschko down and then he gets hurt. But even hurt, Klitschko's throwing hooks and Joshua manages to duck them. I mean, if he doesn't if he doesn't successfully duck them, if they clip him on the top of the head, we've seen that on several fights now recently where a guy gets clipped on top of the head and knocks him silly. Right. Yeah. So but he's ducking them completely. and so that's good. He manages to f to survive. you know, the they they've a good left hook, you know, Josh was hurt quite a bit, wobbling, gassed, and then the round kind of ends with a five punch combo by Klitschko. Easy ten, eight round or d did I have this backwards? I'm sorry. Yes. So I forgot at the start of this at the start of this round, Klitschko got knocked down. And then near the end Klitschko has him in trouble, but he doesn't go down, and then he's he fin he finishes strong, but it's still, I think, you know, Joshua's not completely defenseless. And he had that knockdown early. So it's a ten eight round for Joshua. Not an easy ten eight because I cannot see myself not given a ten eight round when there's a clean knockdown and he has the guy and he's pounding on the guy, no matter how the rest of the round goes, as long as there's not a knockdown. So I give it ten eight, Joshua. speaker-1: Well, we will disagree 'cause I gave it ten nine for Joshua. speaker-0: Ooh, that was nasty. speaker-1: Which is not unprecedented, right? you may remember when Holyfield fought Cooper. Yes. and was dropped. Yeah. Letterman thought he had fought Holyfield had fought back enough in the second half of that round to make it a ten nine. Yeah. Close the gap. That's what I thought happened here. I mean, there was the big right hand by Joshua that staggered Klitschko right of the gate. Joshua jumps on him. Klitschko's cut and down from a couple left hooks, like you said, about thirty seconds in. Yeah. And then you know, when the when when he got up and the fight resumed, Klitschka landed a right and then later a left hook, and it took him about forty five seconds to kind of steady himself, so

now we're about mid round. But then Joshua got tagged and looked hurt and was eating right hands and there was a a big right uppercut at the two minute mark that really rocked Joshua. He looked like he was out on his feet, and there was another uppercut. I put what a round, but I definitely thought that. It was you know, all all Joshua the first half and all Klitschko the second half, but it wasn't a I I didn't think it was one sided enough. I thought Klitschko really fought his way back in it. So I gave it ten nine to Joshua. I guess ten eight score, but speaker-0: Well I mean that's that speaker-1: Or like speaker-0: this is an interesting thing, Rob. So we're half we're we're no we're not quite halfway through this fight, right? So at the After speaker-1: Four wet up on our score. speaker-0: Fo yeah, well we're slightly way off. So you have Joshua by one at this point, right? Yeah. I have Joshua fifty forty four. He's upset. Yeah, I think it is. I think it's not I think I'm too Joshua, you're too Klitschko. but it's but somewhere somewhere in the middle we shall meet or maybe they will figure it out themselves. Maybe they'll sort it out themselves and save us the trouble of going to cards where we're having the you know, the wildly divergent scorecards or something like that. I can't even imagine. All right, so let's see. so round six might help suss things up. speaker-1: round six is a so they're coming out of round five, which was a great round. They trade right hands, so at least Joshua you know added one of his own. then so Joshua spits out his mouthpiece and gets a thirty second reprieve. I was really disappointed in the referee. speaker-0: Well let me let me just talk about that for a sec. He's been sucking wind through an open mouth since round three. So so I mean he's been open mouthed for a while. Now that being said, I don't s I think that mouthpiece came out without a punch landing. So yeah, I could see where you could have a problem with. speaker-1: Well and and you know, I get stopping it, but you know, at least hustle him along. Don't reward the guy for spitting out his mouthpiece. The guy's gassed and hurt and you give him basically half a rest period. Yep. To so I thought that was a rookie mistake by the ref. Whatever. it doesn't really matter because a mammoth straight right floors Joshua. But speaker-0: It's mammoth too. Boy. speaker-1: and and what I said to Brett was Klishko should jump all over this guy because I think this rookie ref could panic and stop it. speaker-0: Yeah, if he g if he gets really busy. speaker-1: But that is not what Klitschko did. and he had he had Joshua dead to rights and really was just being super careful, trying to you see this all the time. The fight went swarm him. Swarm But he doesn't. It's a ten eight round though for for Klitschko. Basically Joshua just spends the rest of the round trying to survive it. How'd you see it? speaker-0: so yeah, it was ten eight Klitschko for sure. That that right hand was again, it was at least the fourth really big right hand that he tagged Joshua with. But this one I don't know if this one definitely was way more damaging than the other ones. And maybe it's an accumulation, I don't know, but boy did he hurt him with this one. and and then he continues to press it, but not nearly enough. He goes to the body a little bit, you know, he's throwing some bombs and then he's You know, he's measuring him, trying to land him, you know, and and Joshua still looks pretty pretty bad through most of the round. And then I think I wrote down that K juju B is a crossing. I speaker-1: it speaker-0: don't know. I I think we all know what that meant. Joshua gets back to doing jabs at the end of the round and kind of has at least managed to fend Klitschko off better by the end of round six, but it's a ten eight round offer Klitschko. so now you have Klitschko suddenly in the lead in this fight and I have it's much closer fight than it was before. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Yep. All right. So then if we go to round seven then, I guess, you know, that you know, that Klitschko's stalking him, but he's not really attacking him, you know. Joshua's really th doing a lot of kind of pawing and trying like more like he's just trying to keep him at range, like depth depth finding. It's like where are you? You're right there, you are you right there, and not much else. Klitschko's got a double jab that misses and two hooks and then f throws four straight left hooks, which was kind of an interesting attack. and then and then, you know, Joshua, you know, basically is doing almost nothing at all at this point, I said. You know, he's it's a jab fest from around mid round. Klitschko continues doing better and all of I say all of this this is pretty much a Klitschko round completely, and then I keep looking and Joshua is just yapping at him. Yapping at him. What do you suppose he's saying to him? I mean you can see him saying stuff almost all it's like, what are you, Muhammad Ali? You know, blah blah blah blah blah blah. Yeah, I did he I I don't remember this is the round where he sticks his tongue out. it is. He sticks his tongue out. You just want to these. Not like not like a raspberry, but just kind of like, you know, the the cover you know, the cover of the Rolling Stones album and stuff like that. And but then he's and then at the very end of the round he slips Joshua slips a punch and lands a body head combo. But I mean it's it's still a Klitschko round, but it's weird that Joshua doesn't is either like trying to build up his confidence, you know, falsely, or else he feels like he weathered the storm and Klitschko's not gonna get him now. Which seems weird. It's like I think I took his best punches and I'm back now. He's not fighting like it, but he's acting like And maybe it's one of those things where you act that way to convince yourself as well as the referees. And still I gave the round of Klitschko no problem, but it's

weird what's going on, man. speaker-1: Yeah, I I wonder if, you know, 'cause you and I I think always felt like Ollie did this and Sugar A. Leonard did this sometimes. You heard him and they act like, wow, you really hurt me and then the guy's like, Well, did I hurt him? Yeah. Yeah. yeah, speaker-0: It's true. speaker-1: I mean I don't know how many times Ollie tricked the whole heavyweight the heavyweight division in the seventies must have been the dumbest bunch of lunkheads of all time. but it worked every time for Ollie, except with Spinx. Sphinx didn't fall for that shit and he kept, you know, to his credit not knowing any better. in the quote unquote fight of the year. Anyway. yeah, I so my guess is that Josh was trying to do something like that, but I mean, I don't know. I don't know what Klitschko is thinking. He's got enough experience he should know. but I think honestly, I think Klitschko you know, maybe isn't sure what he's in there with 'cause he's in there with some young stud. And also at forty one you can't always pull the trigger. Yeah. speaker-0: Especially especially when you're when you know, you're conditioned at this point to think this guy is is a dangerous fighter. Now it's round seven. You mentioned a couple of times already, Joshua's never gone past round seven. So maybe that's the other thing is Klitsch goes like look if I buy my time I'll wear him out. He's gonna see a little tire and I'll get him late, right? I mean speaker-1: Well mean it it looks like it to this point. I mean I mean Joshua took this whole round to recovery. He didn't do shit. Yep, nope. And we're only halfway through the fight or just over it. I I could see why Klitschko would be thinking, you know what, I might not have to hit this guy again. He might fall over at the end of the tenth. speaker-0: That's right, we'll just I'll just drag this out and wear him down. speaker-1: Yeah. So I mean it was it was a few punches by Klitschko, a lot of stalking, not a lot of connecting, but nothing at all by Joshua. So it's a default ten nine round for Klitschko. now the eighth, there was a nice one two by Klitschko and Joshua had a left hook and then another left hook and Joshua starts jabbing to the body. So I put he's heating up. So he's Used the last round up you know, get his feet back under him and now he's heating it up again. Klitschko is still jabbing. There was a right by Klitschko, they traded jabs. very close round. You know what, Butch? A gush. speaker-0: boy. boy. speaker-1: Boy. speaker-0: Yeah. that's interesting. so so yeah, I I gave it close round to Joshua on this one. I just thought him having his mobac, really kind of, you know, He he he looked lighter on his feet, his f his hands looked faster. I'm not sure they were fast, but they look he looked better. He regained his footing this round is what I said. So I gave him the round. this by the way was the first round that me and Harold Letterman disagreed on. Letterman gave this round to to Klitschko, you gave it even, I gave it to Joshua. But up until this round, Letterman and I were on exactly this point. yeah, I I gotta I gotta tell ya I gotta tell ya, Rob. This is me doing my Harold Letterman impression. I gotta tell ya. Joshua looks a lot better this round. I think maybe he's got his he's back on his feet. You know, Klitschko should have gotten in there and gotten pressured him a little bit more. He might got him get him out of there, but he's not gonna get him out of there right now unless speaker-1: Like he's in the room, all the energy. speaker-0: Yeah, it's like it's cle it's Letterman after dark. speaker-1: I I watched a some non HBO broadcast of this so the speaker-0: Sky the sky one probably, yeah. Yeah. speaker-1: Yes. speaker-0: I was like I was gonna watch a sky one, but I could get Harold Letterman, I could not get Harold Letterman. What am I watching the Sky one for? speaker-1: That's yeah. So if you're wondering where Harold's been, we're glad he showed up. Sound like he had a cold, maybe he was tired, mono. speaker-0: I believe you just had a sh I bel I believe I just had my shingles vaccine. I'm not sure. I don't know. so yeah, so I that's how I So so you shot your wad in round eight. Well guess who shoots his wad in round nine? It's Butch. That's right. speaker-1: Well how'd you see eight? speaker-0: yeah yeah, I I gave it to Joshua, you know, it's you know, I basically I thought he regained his footing and stuff like that. you know, that there's a Klitschko misses a few times and on Joshua's a little bit more active and a little bit more effective. The his jab's back and so I gave it to round to him, so Round eight though is the round that I went even on, and I'm not sure I'm sorry, round nine, I'm doing the odd rounds, that's right. so they're both sloppy to start. you know, Joshua goes sl to the body a little bit, but misses. they they keep doing the clinches and no throwing, then Joshua short left hook lands and and I wrote an underline, it's really sloppy at this point mid round. Joshua throws a counter left that's blocked. one two by Joshua. And then I put Klitschko's not very busy. he's mostly moving. It's mostly movement on his part, head movement, kind of foot movement, but not a lot of throwing. Joshua get Joshua l likes when he gets close to trade body hooks. and nobody did much this round. I this was i I I most of my notes say Joshua, but I I just basically thought neither one of earned this round. So if I could have given it nine nine, I would have it wouldn't have made any difference, but I give it ten ten. I'm I'm embarrassed. It's kind of one of those things where it's like you shoot your wad and then you feel really, you know, sheepish about it afterwards. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: I th they're all it always feels like that, but you know what I'm saying. All right. So how'd you see round ten? How'd you see round? speaker-1: Well, you will sit are you sitting down, buddy? speaker-0: not two in

a row. speaker-1: I gave this round to Joshua. So I gave a close round to Joshua. They said it couldn't be done. I thought Joshua came out fast and it forced Klitschko to kinda try and match his output. Yeah. Which I didn't think Klitschko was too keen on doing. No. I thought they had an even first minute short right inside by Klitschko, but then there was a left hook by Joshua and then a one two by Joshua. And a straight wreck by Joshua and then a combo on the inside by Joshua. That's a lot of Joshua. So I gave the round in a in a round where I didn't even use half the space allotted in my notes. ten nine. So so that should say it wasn't action packed. Like I I know I I know I got the listener all revved up with my description of round nine, but it was a snooze fest. But I g I do give it to Joshua, so that was speaker-0: So many Joshuas it was like it was like an eighth grade classroom in Gardner Middle School in Oregon City in nineteen ninety five. Sorry, that's we were talking about substitute teaching not too long ago and and what eighth grade's like and there was one year where I was like, God, are all the boys in this class this school named Joshua or whatever? Holy cow. so many Joshua That's speaker-1: That would be Hayden or something. speaker-0: yeah, Aiden, Jaden, and Caden, exactly. All right, so so round nine, you I had even you yeah, I had even you gave to Joshua. So what do you see in round ten? speaker-1: Well, rent round ten I else to give to Joshua. There was a he he he landed a right. Good for you, Joshua. To start the A big right hand by Joshua, big one two by Joshua. That's a couple bigs right in a row. Klitschko's jabbing. there was a right to the body by Joshua. a right by Klitschko. they land They land. Simultaneous rights. speaker-0: Yep. speaker-1: Why w I would write that should tell you how much action there is. I have the space to write the word simultaneous. speaker-0: It's a five syllable word for crying out loud. You can't spend that much time writing that during no taking. Come on. speaker-1: I know. That's that's absurd. That that's when you know it's not Hagler Hearns. But close round but I g I gave it to the young lion. Ten nine. Look at speaker-0: us deferring again. I gave it to Klitschko. I I that being said, I have a lot of Joshua notes. Joshua opens with two two high hooks then both miss and block and are blocked. they trade jabs. Klitscho is Klitschko is still the one stalking. there's lots of clinching you know there's l and clashing that you know that they just come together and just end up clinching without throwing anything. Joshua attacks goes head body and head and then body again by Joshua. He slips a K Klitschko right hand again. Klitschko gets him in a headlock and it punches him inside a little bit. Maybe maybe that's a little bit some of the rough stuff at this point. Joshua slips under a left hook, then there's a one-two by Klitschko that misses. Then a Joshua counter left misses. then Klitschko lands a right hand and lands a one-two. This is all at the end of the round on the round where I'm like teetering on who's gonna win this round. My notes don't accurately capture the fact that I was on the fence until the end of the round when Klitschko does a little bit more and is effective and lands and and so I gave round ten to Klitschko. speaker-1: Okay. speaker-0: So it's weird that it's weird that I that we differ we we were differing again on going in the opposite directions. So that leads us to round eleven. speaker-1: All right, we're to the championship round. speaker-0: These are the championship rounds eleven and twelve. So so Joshua lands a big right hand to start. Ironic because that was Klitschko's Klitschko's like, That's my thing, you did my thing, you can't do my thing. Klitschko is hurt but holds on. And then Joshua's chasing him around. you know, and you know, they th they're you know, they're both you know, he's chasing his target, throwing thunder, you know, he finds the range now. there's a short left inside that Joshua lands and then this huge uppercut, which he follows up by a few hooks in a row and and Klitschko drops to his hands and knees and goes down. So he's he gets back up and has administered the count. He's allowed to continue. it's a little bit I think cla Joshua was a little bit exuberant and probably gave Klitschko a few extra seconds to recover. you know, go back to your corner and before he gets the, you know, you're good or whatever. It's a lot of continue. Then Joshua lands another big right hand and then a seven punch combo again drops Klitschko for the second time this round. You know, and then Joshua covers him, you know, basically and throws bombs away. And, you know, he has Klitschko in the corner. Klitschko's avoiding most of this stuff, but but you know, Joshua's just throwing Like he's throwing like, you know, Deontay Wilder like punches at this point. Like the big huge wild looping, you know, starting from sort of firmer on your back heel and going over the top and coming over, you know, and and the referee sees that that Klitschko's not defenseless, but he's also not responding. And so the referee maybe a little early, stops the fight. TKO eleven, Anthony Joshua retains the title and wins what I assume is with with you know is the the mantle of best fighter on the planet, right, at this point. So speaker-1: For heavyweights, yeah, probably. speaker-0: Yes, I'd have of course for heavyweights, right? Mm-hmm. speaker-1: Yeah, I'm gonna say I thought three w was quick on the trigger. Yeah. exactly what I had told Brett in the sixth. You know? jump on Yep. And the ref might panic. I feel like the ref panicked a little. Yeah. I didn't think any of the there's no question that Klitschko's badly hurt and it probably is academic. And he speaker-0: Does not protest when it stops. speaker-1: He sort of does. He says something to the referee, like I don't know what he said. He could have

accurately said none of those last six punches landed. speaker-0: And that would be correct. Yeah, they did not land. And they were not good punches. Joshua is literally following your advice from round six to Klitschko. Just go in there and start throwing crazy shit and it'll and he'll be terrified for h for Klitschko's life. Right. Yeah. speaker-1: yeah, you see that in in a lot of fights and and and I get it with the heavyweights, right? 'Cause if you're you know, you don't want a Mercer Morrison on your hands, right? But but still it's I don't know, you know, why is this guy why is this his first title fight? You know, whatever. I will say that right uppercut. speaker-0: Slow motion. Slow motion. God. That was gruesome. speaker-1: I that's about as big of an uppercut as I've ever seen anybody get hit with ever. speaker-0: And he Joshua has knocked out guys with that uppercut before too. that Dillian White fight, yeah, he knocks out Dillian White with an uppercut like that. And it's just that guy with that muscular skeletal system hitting you with an uppercut like that, I don't know how you survive that. speaker-1: Right. That wasn't a short uppercut. That was a from your ankles uppercut. speaker-0: Full body and I mean he's got so much power. what if and he gets all of it in that uppercut. It's amazing. Right. speaker-1: I don't know how Klitschko didn't go down from that. That was astonishing. But it was the beginning of the end. I will say that it would have been interesting. you know, because when the ref finally stopped it, there was about what thirty seconds left or so in the round. Yeah. I would not have been surprised if if Klitschko had survived that round to see Joshua totally gassed coming out for the twelfth, but that's neither here nor there. Yeah. it was definitely you know, he closed the show well, even though I thought the stoppage was a little early. You can't really argue with two knockdowns earlier in the round. It definitely would have put the scores probably out of reach. I had it even after ten, it certainly would have been a ten seven round. Well speaker-0: Yeah, we could talk about the the scores because so my scorecard at the end of ten was ninety-six ninety-three for Joshua, which is exactly what Judge Trella had it. 9693 for Joshua. Vasquez had it ninety-five ninety three for Joshua after ten. Weisfeld had it ninety-five ninety three Klitschko, which means that after that if if this round had continued and they'd and they'd score this round. I'm assuming it's a ten seven round, right? So speaker-1: yeah. speaker-0: so so ten seven that means that even Weisfeld has Klitschko has Joshua up by one then, right? Because it would have been it would have been one three, one two for for Joshua and the other two would have been out of reach at that point. So Klitschko would have needed knockout. to yeah, so speaker-1: It's a pretty competitive fight, no matter how you speaker-0: Yeah, and I think I think it's interesting 'cause 'cause we both had judges whose scorecards resemble our scorecard in this. And so that's that's kinda cool. even though we're very different in in how we scored this fight. but yeah, I I think I think it I think the stoppage was a little early. I don't think it changed the outcome at all. you know, it allows you to you know, this it turns out that you're not You know, Kalitschko had no reason to save anything for the next fight 'cause this was his last fight. He never fought again at speaker-1: And it was probably that uppercut that made up his mind. speaker-0: I was like I don't need to walk into that anymore. Yeah, I mean that that that uppercut was definitely as good a right hand as the one that dropped Joshua in the sixth. That uppercut was the best punch of the fight. speaker-1: yeah. speaker-0: Hands down. It was amazing. And the fact that Klitschko was able to get up or actually I mean he took a few more punches to knock him out knock him down after that too. I'd I think I would have thought you just stay out of his way and let him fall down, but he was gonna maybe weather that. So that you know, for all the pain and suffering Klitshow had gotten about his chin over the years. yeah, that the fact that he got up from the beating in that after that uppercut and the uppercut itself was said a lot about how his chin was probably better than it had been earlier in his career, I think. 'Cause he'd been knocked out by a lot less. So but overall I think this is a fight where you can say Anthony Joshua after this fight is nineteen and with nineteen knockouts and is the IBF heavyweight champion of the world and the speaker-1: And WBX. speaker-0: WBA and and yeah in and at at this point you know I think he's he was the best heavyweight in the world most people thought and so the future's so bright he they he's gotta wear shades, right? at this point. So and so this w this was a fight of some import. It was a heavyweight About where both fighters went down. Both fighters were hurt at other times when they didn't go down. you know, it was action packed in the second once you get to the fifth round, it's a there's a lot going on. It's boring as hell for the first four rounds. well that's and that's unfair. I think it's boring as hell for the first two rounds at least, or first three rounds. speaker-1: It's not a huge it's got it's got a lot that happens in it, but I wouldn't say it's a huge action fight. speaker-0: No, I would not either. And so so that leads to a question of a fight of this import in a division that I think this fight went a long way to repairing, you know, yeah setting up the new class of elite heavyweights that are gonna make this a relevant division for years. you know, I think that this fight had a lot of importance behind it. you know, if Klitschko were to win this fight and knock out Anthony Joshua and then retire, it's like you kinda leave a bit of a gaping hole there, right? but instead he's gonna leave it to Ant Andy

Ruiz to to leave a big gaping hole in a few years in a couple of years from this fight. and that was that I gotta tell you that was the most shocking thing for those of you who don't know. Joshua has a couple more defenses and then defends his title against Andy Ruiz right before COVID. And speaker-1: Is that in twenty nineteen? speaker-0: Yeah, it's in twenty nineteen. gets Ruiz down early. Ruiz is a short guy who's really how did how did Tony Atlas describe him? you know, he's it's like you know, something about you know, he's he's he's Pillsbury Doughboy ish, but I mean it was like a it makes you question everything you you think you know about athleticism. speaker-1: You know, he has a body like a melted ice cream bar, I think. It's you know. speaker-0: Yeah, and and so Ruiz gets knocked down, gets up and the ro and the announcers go, watch this. Joshua's a great finisher. And then Joshua gets clipped upside the head and is just his his like you know his balance is just turned off for the rest of the night. And and he gets knocked down like five times in that fight and eventually stopped. You know, like, what the hell just happened? You know, where the Greek god built looking guy, the guy who If there's a guy in real life who looks like Mr. Sandman is built, it's this guy. It's Anthony Joshua. He's built like Mr. Sandman for credit. speaker-1: Yeah, and the and and and Ruiz is built more like, you know, fish from Barney Miller. I mean, he's just not the body beautiful, right? speaker-0: by the way, Fish is going, Hey, I don't that's pretty mean thing to say about me. but yeah, so so Joshua is gonna show later in his career that he's not necessarily the elite fighter that he looks like he had the potential to be, or maybe Ruiz is just better than he is, although, you know, when they fought the second time Joshua had no problem beating him the second time. speaker-1: And and honestly, honestly, you know, there's probably still time for Joshua to get his act together and pull a Klitschko and have a nice long, you know, run because Fury and Wilder are gonna be retiring soon. I don't care what anybody says. And no, there's not a ton you got Usik, you know, who just beat Joshua, but there's you know, it's still not the most stacked division. It's It's it's like four or five guys, I'll even throw a Ruiz in there. But then there's quite a drop off from what I can see. Yeah. so Joshua could pull it together, become a three time champ, have string together some defenses, but right now he's lacking something. I don't know. He's lacking it. speaker-0: Yeah. It it kinda looks like a lot of times like, you know, he's just kinda like, Yeah, all right, I'm gonna go out and do my thing. He doesn't look like a killer. And and I I don't know if it's a baby face or whatever, but it's like, you know, when Wilder is coming after you, when Wilder has you hurt, he looks like a killer. Like he looks like if there was an accent here, I'd pick it up and I'd chop you into little bits with it, you know. whereas Joshua is much more clinical and stuff and he doesn't seem to have the same killer instinct and stuff like that. speaker-1: And he doesn't seem to have the drive either of, you know, like like Holyfield wasn't a killer, but he definitely was driven to be the best. Right. speaker-0: yeah. And and speaker-1: And give everything he had. I don't ever get that sense from Joshua. speaker-0: Yeah, now that being said, Joshua's fault is not working is not failing to work hard in the gym. He physically is all there all the time. He doesn't look he doesn't look like he never looks like he's like letting himself go or anything like that. So it's not, you know, putting in the b the work to keep his body in shape, but I think it's the skills and and again, he showed in this fight he's he's dangerous with all he has a l a wide array of arsenal of weapons on offense and stuff like that. But it's just like, you know, it's just you're right. There's just something there. It would be really interesting to see what he would do against against Tyson Fury. 'Cause again, would he would he have the same problems that Wilder had? You know, I think I think if you if you look at Wilder and you look at Joshua and you say which one of these guys is gonna be able to handle the bigger, heavier Tyson Fury pushing on him, Joshua I think is way stronger than than than Wilder is. I don't know that he's stronger than Fury because he's just not nearly as big, but if you were to say do they have the same amount of muscle? I who has more weight? It's obviously Fury, but if you say who has more muscle, I think it's Anthony Joshua. speaker-1: Yeah, and Wilder has the skinny little legs. speaker-0: Yeah, and so so you know, it'd be interesting to see. I don't know that we're ever gonna get to see that 'cause I what I'm assuming is gonna happen is that is that he'll fight Usyk again and either he'll lose in which case he becomes a little bit irrelevant, or he'll win and they're gonna have to fight a third time and that's gonna run out the clock on Fury's boxing career. I you know, if Fury never loses and Joshua eventually does the klitch go thing and becomes, you know, like I can I can only imagine That that's a gonna be a money fight down the road. If that scenario plays out where Joshua comes back and wins and beats Usyk and then levels the ship and figures the things out like Klitschko did, at about the same age, I might point out, right? So so if that happens, then I could see at some point Tys it'll be hard for Tyson Fury not to take the money and take that fight. But but I just don't know if we'll see it. And I honestly don't know what'll happen if we do, right? It's like speaker-1: Fury would and and I think Fury's beatable, but J I don't know, Joshua yeah is lacking the championship something. Yeah. speaker-0: I mean 'cause Fury Fury's skill set, if you compare Fury's skill set to Klitschko's skill set, Fury's skill set is a lot more he

has a ho rock hard chin and a lot less he has a bucket full of offensive weapons that are devastating. Usually what's happened in the fights where we've seen Fury win he wears guys down by beating on them for a long time, you know, I mean the the the the punches that eventually hurt the guy are after a few sele you know, after you beat on you be beat on you, beat you lean on they tire out and then eventually you hit them and they go down, right? It's not like that it's not he does he's not doing what Joshua did with that uppercut where essentially that fight was pretty much over when you land that uppercut. speaker-1: He hits hard because he's big, but he's not a destroyer like Wilder, for example. Or a Foreman even. speaker-0: Yeah. And and and and it's interesting 'cause more to the point, I think we've talked about how Wilder is really it's unfair sometimes to say it, but Wilder's a bit more of a one trick pony in terms of one speaker-1: She's totally a one trick. speaker-0: two, but the one two is a devastating thing. But if you can figure out that's the thing that makes me w think that I would much rather see a Fury Joshua fight than a Wilder Joshua fight, 'cause I'm thinking to myself, if he caught if he ate those straight right hands three rounds in a row to start by Vladimir Klitschko, what the hell would what a right hand from Wilder do to him? I mean, you know, that's there's there's a level of upgrade between a Klitschko right hand, which is great by the way, and and Wilder's right hand. It's like you can't just you can't take those punches three rounds in a row. Yeah. At some point at some point that's gonna be the end of it. Hey, so we could keep talking or we can figure out where this ranks on our speaker-1: Well, so I had hard time here, Butch, and I again I want to give a shout out to my son Brad for recommending this fight to me. we both had COVID, so we watched it. It was fun. Classic old lion, young lion. Yeah. this felt to me like a poor man's Fury Wilder three. Yeah. In that it was two big guys and they both went down and there was some drama for the heavyweight championship. I do not think this was as good as Fury Wilder three. I don't either. I was torn I have it somewhere in the middle here. and so I'm open to negotiation here. I my sense is anywhere between six and eight. But I I I I could even maybe go a little lower than that. There's no way I can go higher than six. So speaker-0: talking are we talking about somewhere above Foreman Fraser? speaker-1: Yeah, basically. I have it even ahead of Mohammed speaker-0: With low. speaker-1: Lopez. Yeah. speaker-0: And I'm debating I'm debating whether to put it above Bertha or Tease also. speaker-1: That was a good I remember that was a good fight. Yeah. speaker-0: I mean that's kinda where I'm at, is somewhere b above or below Berto Ortiz is where I'm kind of at right now. speaker-1: do you think it was better than Lopez Ayala? speaker-0: I d I don't th I'm not sure. I don't I'm I don't think so. speaker-1: Yeah, I th I say we Yeah, 'cause I initially scored at sixth and then when we were talking about it I like, no, eighth so I'm I'm tempted to s make it seventh. Yeah, that was speaker-0: Maybe above above Berto Ortiz and below Lopez Ayala, right? speaker-1: Yeah. What do you think about that? speaker-0: Okay with that. That's kinda where I'm thinking it goes. speaker-1: Alright, so so that would be seventh, right behind Lopez Ayala and right before Ortiz. speaker-0: Our rankings then would go would go anyway, Donair, our good buddy I giracker. speaker-1: here here's what I want to say about this 'cause this fight is gonna end up low on our fifty fights. Kiroga Anaface. It hurts me that in a good fight Anaface got jobbed on the decision and then died soon after. Yeah, that hurts. So that hurts. Yep. But then Spinx Ali at twelve. Yep. Alvarez triple G two at eleven. Form and Fraser one. Yep. ten. Matthew Saad Mohammed Lopez two from nineteen eighty nine, Ortiz Berto one at eight, then this fight, Fury Klitschko at seven, Lopez Ayala at six, Ward gotti one at five, Robinson Gotti one at four. So what I call that is an overrated Gotti fight. and then an underrated Gotti fight. Yeah, it's very good. Three, Castro Jackson one. Yep. Tukargus Mura and then number one eight minutes of podcasting as they call it in the biz, Hagler Hearns, the war. speaker-0: I do not think I can quibble with that ranking. So well I mean we could quibble. But I am perfectly willing to accept that ranking on that. So so that's gonna do it for tonight's fight, and then when next we meet, which could be any time, ladies and gentlemen, we're we're having a crazy week, so we may just plow through a whole bunch of fights this week. so our next fight we go way back to nineteen seventy two for Bob Foster and Chris Finnegan nineteen seventy two the ring magazine fight of the year from that year. So that's gonna be what we do next time. speaker-1: Butch, have you ever watched a Bob Foster fight? I know he teased this last last time. speaker-0: I still have not, so I'm looking forward to it. You've managed to sell pretty hard on it. speaker-1: He was a pr a pretty dominant just as a teaser for the listener out there. foster was really an excellent light heavyweight champion, one of the best. He had he had to lose money to get a title shot. He had to pay a hundred thousand to the champion to get the title shot. His purse was sixty thousand. jeez. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: But he destroyed that guy, Dick Tiger, who was a Hall of Famer. Yeah. And he went on quite a tear. and really his only loss he famously got destroyed by Frazier in two. And six weeks after this fight that we're gonna talk about, he will fight Muhammad Ali for the heavyweight title. Six weeks after this fight speaker-0: Wow, six weeks after the fight of the year he fights the the great w the greatest. but again and again, not exactly you know, old man Muhammad Ali either in nineteen seventy two. Yeah. speaker-1: Right. Prime prime pretty prime. I guess that wouldn't be for the heavy heavyweight title, would it? but but the fight before he fights Foster I'm talking about, fights Finnegan, he fights Mike Cory. speaker-0: Yeah. That's what you were telling me about. speaker-1: And that is a short fight. I would encourage you to watch it before you watch this fight because he kills my quarry. Wow. so and speaker-0: Literally, I don't want to watch it if he literally kills him. You're saying metaphorically kills him? Okay. speaker-1: Yeah, well I mean you're it's in doubt for a minute. You're like, wait, what? but the guy he's fighting Finnegan and we'll talk about this, but he was like a l he was like a day laborer in England. He was he had won the Olympic gold at middleweight in sixty eight, but he was like just some some dude who won the gold and then started having a good career and gets gets finds himself in the fight of the year for the light heavyweight championship. speaker-0: That's quite a story, so I can't wait to see that one. All right. Well, speaker-1: I rambly. speaker-0: yeah, so and at Wembley too. Wow, that's that's quite this cause this fight at Wembley was one hell of a good time. So I can't wait to see this one, the next one too. So that's awesome. So that's gonna do it, ladies and gentlemen. Join us next time as we continue our countdown of 50 Great Ring magazine fights of the year. we'll see you next time. speaker-1: Yeah.