TRANSCRIPT 🔗
00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey, Oh my god, I'm so excited.
00:00:07
Speaker 2: I'm not ready for you.
00:00:08
Speaker 3: I thought I want to talk about that's bullshit.
00:00:13
Speaker 4: We don't need setup.
00:00:14
Speaker 2: This is okay, That's what I thought.
00:00:17
Speaker 5: One afternoon, I see a white envelope sitting in my mailbox in Brooklyn, stamped in red letters. It says mailed from a state correctional institution, and on the top left of the envelope, I see his name, Oh Journey. I had to call Kelsey right away. She was back in her home state of North Carolina after months of living between Florida and Brooklyn, reporting on the Leo Schofield case with me. Okay, it looks like it's it's on prison paper and it's not the original thing.
00:00:55
Speaker 6: I said, Okay, just read it.
00:00:57
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, oh.
00:00:59
Speaker 2: My God, says I want you to know that Polk County gave me a call about you. I don't think you can come see me. Who knows what will happen? And that is sad when they can't see that.
00:01:15
Speaker 7: I have kept my damn mouth shut for thirty one years Schofield case.
00:01:20
Speaker 2: Let's say he should be out. I've thought about writing my story that no one wants to hear. I just don't really know how gotta go Jay.
00:01:31
Speaker 8: Scott moment.
00:01:46
Speaker 5: That has my field.
00:01:52
Speaker 8: Sut sory in this vass.
00:02:00
Speaker 9: To see gralation, brag desbish to the world.
00:02:23
Speaker 2: Solding, s.
00:02:26
Speaker 5: To the word solding, So.
00:02:35
Speaker 10: Things Bone Valley, Chapter eight.
00:02:57
Speaker 5: Dear mister King, I'd started writing Jeremy because honestly, I didn't know what else to do. After working on this story for a year, the evidence I'd seen pointed more and more towards Jeremy Scott as Michelle Schofield's killer. So I sent my letters out hoping that Jeremy might decide to open up to me, to converse in a way that he hadn't with the lawyers, investigators, and cold case detectives who read him his rights and make him swear under oath. I just want to have a conversation with him, to hear the story he says that no one wants to hear. But we need to back up for a minute to September of twenty nineteen, about ten months before I got Jeremy's letter. So we're here at the Tampa Law Center in Tampa, Florida. We're here for the second DCA Oral Arguments after studying every detail of Leo's case over the past year. This is the first legal proceeding we get to see for ourselves the deciding factor. But this moment, this particular appeal, is everything for Leo. This could really kill all his chances of going forward at this moment, and I think this is almost like his last chance. The reason we're here is because the judge in the last hearing denied Leo a new trial, even after watching Jeremy Scott confess to killing Michelle Schofield in court. So, in spite of the forensic evidence linking Jeremy Scott to the crime scene, and despite the fact that there is still no physical evidence and no direct evidence tying Leo Schofield to the murder of his wife, a single judge ruled that Jeremy Scott was not credible and his confession to killing Michelle was not believable. But Leo those lawyers appealed the judge's decision and won.
00:05:04
Speaker 2: So.
00:05:04
Speaker 5: Now, almost two years after Jeremy Scott confessed on the stand, Leo was given another chance to make his case in court to argue that he deserves a new trial. This hearing will be before a panel of three judges seated on the Second District Court of Appeal. It's about to start when we see Leo's wife Chrissy and their daughter Ashley walk through the door.
00:05:29
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know what you're like, trying to get somewhere on time. Oh yeah, don't get stressed.
00:05:35
Speaker 1: But you made it.
00:05:36
Speaker 5: Everything's fine. They're just starting to see people. So you guys are in great shape. How are you am I today?
00:05:46
Speaker 11: Hmmm, I don't I don't know if I have a word for it.
00:05:50
Speaker 5: Actually, just.
00:05:53
Speaker 8: Hopeful.
00:05:55
Speaker 11: Hopeful, Yeah, that's probably.
00:05:58
Speaker 5: The best word. At Leo's last hearing, Chrisy witnessed how Jeremy Scott withstood the prosecutor's verbal abuse. How by the end of his testimony, Jeremy maintained that it was he alone who killed Michelle Schofield back in February of nineteen eighty seven. Some of his last words in court that day were, I killed her.
00:06:21
Speaker 11: It's maddening that we are still here all these years later, and I was thinking about it's been two years since I got the call about the confession. Two years. He described in detail what he did, how he did it, what he was thinking when he did it, what Michelle was saying when he killed her two years later and we're still talking about this.
00:06:46
Speaker 5: If these three judges don't grant Leo a new trial, it will become even harder for him to successfully appeal to a higher court and get another opportunity to prove his innocence. Leo isn't allowed here to watch the hearing, and he won't find out how it went until he calls Chrissy later in the day. How are Leo's spirits lately?
00:07:13
Speaker 11: He's hopeful, but he's also afraid. He's afraid that we'll get more of the same. He's afraid that he'll disappoint his family. When I think about that is when I get choked up, because he doesn't disappoint us. But so that's where he is.
00:07:33
Speaker 12: So that's that I think we should go in.
00:07:40
Speaker 5: The room is more like a lecture hall than a courtroom, but there's a tenseness in the air. More than a dozen people have come in support of Leo. They are all aware that this may be Leo's last chance for justice.
00:07:55
Speaker 13: You know my name is, said Seth Miller from the Edison's Project Flores, my co counsel mis Stolen, who will not arguing.
00:08:00
Speaker 5: Today, First, Leo's attorney, Seth Miller from the Innocence Project of Florida,
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gets up and begins his oral argument about the new evidence of Jeremy Scott's confession to killing Michelle. He only has twenty minutes to present his case, but the judges can interrupt at any point to ask questions.
00:08:18
Speaker 7: We have additional fact.
00:08:19
Speaker 5: That Seth brings up. How there are certain details Jeremy knows that only the murderer could know, how Jeremy's story is consistent with the forensic evidence, and how Michelle was found in the same spot that Jeremy used to take his girlfriend Jamie Nellams. But just a minute into his argument, the judges are already interrupting with questions, and before long they veer away from Jeremy Scott's confession and instead dredge up the same so called evidence from the original trial, like Leo's father's weird behavior.
00:08:55
Speaker 13: His ex girlfriend Jamie Nellens testified that he used to bring her to.
00:08:59
Speaker 14: Then few mornings after the incident, the defendant's father had a premonition that that's where the body was and led police to that location.
00:09:13
Speaker 5: Is what really bothers me listening to the judges questions, is that Leo Senior's story about a vision from God continues to be treated as a fact in this case, as if he woke up that morning with a premonition and then led police to some random ditch in Polk County where Michelle's body just happened to be. That's not what happened. Leo Senior had been searching for Michelle for nearly three days and nights. He didn't lead police to the body. He found her body, then flagged down a passing trucker who alerted the police. And it wasn't until after the police showed up that he claimed to have had this clairvoyant vision from God. It was a story told by a distraught and troubled man. And so, with only twenty precious minutes to argue his case, Seth gets stuck explaining Leo's father's premonition instead of arguing to the judges why Jeremy Scott's confessions deserve to be considered by a new jury at a new trial. Impact and that's all Leo and his lawyers are asking for. They're not asking for Leo to walk out of prison today. They're just asking for a new jury to decide his fate. After Seth takes a seat, the attorney for the state makes his argument, and it's basically this, Jeremy Scott is not credible and nothing he says should be believed. But there is one time the state says that you can believe Jeremy when he says he didn't kill Michelle.
00:10:51
Speaker 13: His version of events, which was deemed credible by his court in twenty ten, that he stole the stereo equipment and found the abandoned car and did not kill michelle'sko field, matches much more logically with the evidence known in the case than his version of events.
00:11:06
Speaker 5: This is the preposterous position the state is forced to defend that a man who has confessed to three different murders in Polk County that he is forensically linked to is suddenly nothing more than a car stereo thief. It's like they're refusing to
acknowledge the fact that the State Attorney's office has already prosecuted Jeremy Scott twice for murder.
00:11:29
Speaker 13: If this court does not have any further questions, I would ask that you affirm the trial court's denial of the motion for newly discovered evidence thank you very much.
00:11:42
Speaker 5: The hearing doesn't last long, about thirty minutes, and then it's over. We all walk out into the lobby and don't know how to feel. It's hard to read what the judges are thinking, and Leo's family wants to remain optimistic. But now the waiting begins. For the next eight months. We will all wake up in the morning and refresh the second DCA's website to see if their decision has been posted online, to see if the court has ruled that Leo should be granted a new trial.
00:12:26
Speaker 15: Hi, I'm Jason Flamm, CEO and founder of Lava for Good podcasts, home to Bone Valley, Wrongful Conviction, The War on Drugs, and many other great podcasts. Today we're asking you, our listeners, to take part in a survey. Your feedback is going to help inform how we make podcasts in the future. Your complete and candid answers will help us continue to bring you more insightful and inspiring stories about important topics that impact us all.
00:12:50
Speaker 5: So please go to.
00:12:51
Speaker 15: Lava for Good dot com slash survey and participate today.
00:12:55
Speaker 5: Thank you for your support.
00:13:00
Speaker 16: Bone Valley is sponsored by Stand Together. Stand Together is a philanthropic community that partners with America's boldest change makers to tackle the root causes of our country's biggest problems, including the failed War on drugs that has criminalized addiction, fuelled over incarceration, and shattered communities. At eleven years old, Scott Strode drank his first beer. At fifteen, Scott went to a mental health facility because of suicidal thoughts, where he tried cocaine.
00:13:31
Speaker 5: Like many others who experience addiction, Scott.
00:13:33
Speaker 16: Was using drugs and alcohol to numb the pain he was trying to numb childhood trauma. In his early twenties, Scott was invited into a boxing gym by a friend.
00:13:45
Speaker 5: That's where he.
00:13:45
Speaker 16: Discovered the healing power of sport and community that helped propel him towards sobriety. In two thousand and six, Scott founded The Phoenix, a free, sober, active community that uses the transformative power of sport to help people treat and heal from addiction and imagine new possibilities for their lives through fitness. The program restores compassion to a system that has long relied on locking people up to solve the addiction crisis. Scott Strode is one of many entrepreneurs partnering with Stand Together to drive solutions in education, health care, poverty.
00:14:23
Speaker 5: And criminal justice.
00:14:25
Speaker 16: To learn more about addiction and the War on drugs, listen to the War on.
00:14:29
Speaker 5: Drugs podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. While Leo and his family wait for the judges to release their decision about whether or not Leo will be granted a new trial, Leo has one other chance for freedom, not through a new trial that will allow him to clear his name, but through parole. Parole is basically the state way of saying you committed a crime, served your sentence, and kept out of trouble in prison, so as long as you keep checking in with us now and again, we no longer think you're a present danger to society. But parole is not ideal for Leo because even if it's granted, he'll still be a convicted murderer in the eyes of the state. On the other hand, if he's paroled, he'd at least eventually be home with his family. In a lot of ways, Leo is the perfect candidate for parole. He's a model inmate who's obtained multiple college degrees and leads the prison ministry program God behind Bars.
00:15:40
Speaker 17: I've graduated college, I've gotten awards from the toast Masters. I can't do anything else. There's nothing else to do here. I've been the pastor of the Messionic community here since twenty eleven. I invented programs to graduate from and.
00:15:54
Speaker 5: Leo hasn't had a single disciplinary infraction in fourteen years. In fact, over his thirty years in prison, he's been written up just five times, and only for minor infractions, like once he missed a day of work because of an injury and another time he handed out one of Chrissy's mary K Cosmetics cards to a corrections officer he was friendly with. In addition to presenting their prison records, inmates are expected to show that they'd be a benefit to society and that they'd have stable housing and jobs. Leo has all of that lined up. He has dozens of letters of support from friends and family, and even corrections officers who have known him for years. Leo even has a letter of support from Michelle's brother Jesse. Sam Chrisy got in touch with him after the fingerprints and Michelle's car were matched to Jeremy Scott and Chrissy started sending Jesse documents, so.
00:16:52
Speaker 18: I read through it and I was like, dang man, this stuff's pretty substantial. Fingerprints was a big deal. Jeremy's history was a big deal. By the fact that he had murdered other people and that he was around that same area frequently was a big deal. And and a lot of that stuff just started adding up.
00:17:13
Speaker 5: Do you believe that Jeremy Scott killed your sister? I think so.
00:17:17
Speaker 18: I think he did. Yeah, And I think that Leo's been wrongfully in prison this whole time.
00:17:23
Speaker 5: And you know, it's it.
00:17:27
Speaker 18: It bothers me. It makes me sad, you know that they won't try to pursue the evidence that's boiled up after all these years and at least process it, you know, and then we'll all know, you know, if he did or not. I mean, dude, we're all just searching for the answer, you know, So why wouldn't we pursue it?
00:18:02
Speaker 6: Yeah, the parole hearing, it
started pretty early in the morning. Got there, saw Chrissy and Ashley and you know, the whole gang.
00:18:12
Speaker 5: It's January eighth, twenty twenty, about four months after the second DCA hearing that would determine whether or not Leo will get a new trial, but there's still no decision in time for Leo's parole hearing. I had something scheduled that day, so Kelsey made arrangements to fly down to Tallahassee to cover the hearing herself, and I knew Kelsey was kind of nervous about this trip.
00:18:38
Speaker 6: Texted Gilbert, I said, don't see Hill yet.
00:18:43
Speaker 5: Jerry Hill was John Aguero's boss at the time of Leo's trial back in nineteen eighty nine. He's a tough talking law and order prosecutor who ran unopposed in his last seven elections. Parole is different from Leo's other hearings because a representative from the state doesn't have to be there. But Jerry Hill in his office have made a point of showing up to these hearings. Even though he retired in early twenty seventeen after serving thirty two years as state attorney, he still drives hours to attend these parole hearings, and he's taken a special interest in Leo's case. We tried emailing Jerry Hill, but we received no response. We had a lot of questions and since nobody from the state Attorney's office would agree to be interviewed. We knew our only chance to talk to Jerry Hill might be after the hearing, and with me unable to attend, Kelsey was going to have to be the one to try to corner him support.
00:19:42
Speaker 13: We have a number of those people here and I'd like to call on.
00:19:45
Speaker 2: Some of them.
00:19:45
Speaker 5: Seth Miller from the Innocence Project makes the case for Leo's parole. He has just ten minutes and he has to share that time with Leo's family members and people whom Leo mentored in the prison, all of whom have shown up to speak on his behalf.
00:20:00
Speaker 19: He's a leader, a mentor.
00:20:02
Speaker 15: He encouraged me to participate in programs, and here I am today.
00:20:06
Speaker 5: With so many speakers in so little time. Even Chrissy and Ashley are given less than a minute to explain to the commissioners who they are and why they want Leo home.
00:20:18
Speaker 8: Good morning.
00:20:19
Speaker 20: My name is Chrissy Schofield. I've been in prison with Leo for about twenty eight years now, and one thing that I do know about the Department of Corrections is it's not designed to build better men.
00:20:30
Speaker 11: But there are a few that do rise and Leo's one of those guys.
00:20:35
Speaker 1: Hi, my name is Ashley.
00:20:38
Speaker 21: All I have to say is I will take advantage of every opportunity every family outing, everything that they teach us, I will take in just so when my dad gets home, we can have the best life that we possibly can.
00:20:53
Speaker 1: That's all I have to say.
00:20:56
Speaker 5: The ten minutes are up. Everyone who speaks on Leo's behalf a seat. Then it's the other side's turn.
00:21:03
Speaker 19: Think.
00:21:04
Speaker 6: I look to my right. I glanced up and I saw Jerry Hill walking down the aisle approaching the podium. So I immediately like stopped breathing for a minute. It was just like kind of in shock, like, oh my god, he's here.
00:21:22
Speaker 7: Borning commissioners. Jerry Hill on behalf of Brian Haas, the state attorney for the.
00:21:27
Speaker 6: Dense Circuit, texted Gilbert again, JK. Hill is here. Gilbert says, Okay, stay cool, you got this.
00:21:37
Speaker 5: The next ten minutes of the hearing is supposed to be allotted to any of the victims' loved ones who want to speak or have a letter read. They usually asked the parole board not to release the convicted person that's up for parole, but Jesse Michelle's brother had written a different kind of letter to the state, and he asked for it to be read at the hearing. He wrote, I do not have confidence in the conviction of Leo Schofield and I support his request for parole. But Jesse Salm's letter is never presented. Instead, the retired state attorney Jerry Hill uses the time to argue that Leo Schofield should never get out.
00:22:18
Speaker 6: Of prison, and he starts talking about the facts of the case.
00:22:23
Speaker 7: The defendant's car and his wife's car was abandoned on a F four. It was discovered by the father and Leo before law enforcement could find it.
00:22:35
Speaker 5: By this point, I was getting used to the state twisting the facts and injecting bad evidence into every proceeding. But then Jerry Hill takes it to another level. Instead of the usual mention of Leo's father's vision from God, jerry Hill gets it wrong in a major way.
00:22:55
Speaker 7: Leo said he was driven by an interforce to go back to the pit area again. Leo's say that he felt drawn to that area and felt that Michelle was calling out to him.
00:23:04
Speaker 5: He makes it sound like it was Leo himself who had the premonition.
00:23:09
Speaker 7: Leo said he began to search. The closer he got to Michelle, the worst's head hurt.
00:23:17
Speaker 5: It's not the job of the three parole commissioners to know all the facts of Leo's case. In fact, the point of the hearing isn't supposed to be about the facts of the case at all. Most of the people who are hoping to be granted parole have admitted their guilt in the crimes they've been convicted of the point of parole is to evaluate how they've conducted themselves in prison, to see if the inmate can be safely released back into society after having served their minimum sentence. But listening to Jerry Hill, these commissioners probably thought it was suspicious that the guy who was convicted of killing his eighteen year old wife also claimed that a vision from God led him to discover her boy. But of course none of that ever happened. It wasn't Leo but his father who had this supposed vision from God. Maybe it was just an honest mistake by a retired state attorney who is no longer familiar with the facts of the case from back in the nineteen eighties. But these kind of misrepresentations happen over and over at every stage of Leo's case, from his trial through all his appeals and now parole. The state, attorneys, the judges, they just keep getting the facts wrong. And it's hard to know if it's just carelessness or if the state is intentionally misleading in order to keep Leo locked behind bars. Either way, someone's freedom, someone's life is on the line. And Jerry Hill isn't done with his argument yet.
00:24:57
Speaker 7: I listened to that presentation, how this individual has taken advantage of a lot of opportunities, But folks, I got to point out an absolute glaring hole in that presentation. I didn't hear one word about regret. Sarah wish I hadn't done it. I was a different person. Then this guy is an unrepentant, jury convicted first degree murderer, proven beyond into the exclusion of every reasonable doubt. There's no remorse, there's no sorrow. How do you put a man in a program, getting him ready to be released into society when he can't say I'm sorry, when he can't say I did it.
00:25:49
Speaker 12: I know this is a subsequent and I'm sorry. I'm so emotional about it.
00:25:53
Speaker 7: I just feel very strongly that this is a cold, calculating first degree murder. He's a manipulator and this is exactly where we.
00:26:01
Speaker 20: Ought to be.
00:26:08
Speaker 5: After Jerry Hill speaks, the commissioners announced their decision right then and there, Leo is denied parole. The commission makes it very clear that parole is not a right, but quote an active grace of the state. There will be no active grace for Leo Schofield.
00:26:41
Speaker 6: You can't really react to the ruling in the room. So we all were kind of devastated, but trying to hide it a little bit until we got out into the lobby. And then we all stepped outside and I glanced over and I saw Hill walking out, and I knew. I knew that that was my opportunity. It's just like, can't hesitate. I just like turned on my heel and called out, mister Hill.
00:27:19
Speaker 1: I'm working on a story with Gilbert King about the Riosco Field. King, can I ask you a question. Well, let's see, this case was originally handled by John Aguero.
00:27:28
Speaker 12: That's correct.
00:27:29
Speaker 1: What do you think when you take on a case of his friend so long ago.
00:27:33
Speaker 12: I think John was a brilliant prosecutor and that he was spot on.
00:27:38
Speaker 6: He could probably tell how nervous I was. My hands might have been shaking a little bit. I wish it hadn't been so obvious that I was nervous, But to some degree, I think maybe that worked in my favor. I think maybe it disarmed him a little bit, and I was able to kind of gain my confidence back when I realized how little he knows about this case. And what did you think when you first learned that the fingerprints in michelle'skoe Fields car were identified to Jeremy Scott?
00:28:15
Speaker 12: I thought Jeremy Scott was a thief.
00:28:18
Speaker 1:
Your office prosecuted him twice for murder?
00:28:20
Speaker 12: Didn't it since then? Not before then? Not at that time? Subsequent long suchan.
00:28:25
Speaker 1: Poel Johnson murder was in eighteen eighty five, that was after I believe, No, that was before Michelle's murder was at eighty seven.
00:28:32
Speaker 12: Okay, you may be right. It doesn't add Did you hear the transcript? Did you see the judge's findings? All he's a liar. He offered to sell his testimony for one thousand dollars. That's hardly a basis for suggesting that he's the actual murderer.
00:28:49
Speaker 1: Couldn't he be a stereo thief and the actual murderer.
00:28:52
Speaker 12: Now that's a theoretical question, and I guess in theory the answer is, of course he could be.
00:28:58
Speaker 1: I mean, it shouldn't it be your responsibility to investigate.
00:29:02
Speaker 7: Wait a minute, we have investigated this thing upside down. Leo'scholfield is a cold blooded murderer, and if I have my way, he'll never get out of prison.
00:29:13
Speaker 1: Right now, Leo's case is being reviewed by the Second DCA. If they were to reverse the lower court's opinion, would you try him again?
00:29:23
Speaker 12: Oh, let me tell you, I'm not too worried about that. We're not gonna have to try him again.
00:29:27
Speaker 8: You wouldn't do that, Oh.
00:29:28
Speaker 7: We'll try him again if he were to get off me. Let me tell you right now, he's a killer. And unless you want to take him home, will you, then he's where he ought to be.
00:29:39
Speaker 1: Thank you very much.
00:29:45
Speaker 6: All of the stuff that I've read before that i'd read in transcripts, just how the state talks about Leo in his case, I think maybe i'd kind of been telling myself like, oh, you know, they can't be that bad, right, Like I see the words on the page.
00:30:05
Speaker 1: But it just can't be that bad.
00:30:09
Speaker 6: I've been listening to Jerry Hill. It's just like, oh gosh, no, it really is that bad.
00:30:15
Speaker 1: It's really worse.
00:30:21
Speaker 22: Now.
00:30:21
Speaker 17: I think Jerry Hill he had an opportunity to be the hero, and they can still be the hero. I don't want money, I don't want fame, I don't want any of this stuff. I just want justice for my dead wife. That's what I want. Give that to me and I'll put my mom over your shoulder and say you're the hero. You're the frigging hero.
00:30:36
Speaker 19: Just do what's right.
00:30:38
Speaker 17: Do what's right, because you're never going to give me justice.
00:30:42
Speaker 12: Never.
00:30:43
Speaker 17: You can't give me back thirty four years. You can't give Michelle back her life. The least you can do when you say that you care about her is do the right thing by her. Because this is not it. This is definitely not it.
00:31:01
Speaker 5: After Leo learns he's been denied parole, he sends Chrissy an email through the prison system's computers. As usual, it's Leo who is trying to buoy everyone's spirits. Leo writes, I'm so
sorry you have to deal with this. I was so hopeful that it was going to be different this time. I'm just sorry.
00:31:21
Speaker 2: I love you.
00:31:42
Speaker 5: A few months after Leo was denied parole, I go to my computer and there it is the second DCA's decision. Leo is also denied a new trial. His chances of proving his innocence and getting out of prison and having a normal life with his family they're pretty much gone. I text Chrissy, I text Judge Scott Cupp. I struggle to imagine what this will do to Leo. All he can do now is wait for yet another parole hearing, where yet again, the state will argue that he's not worthy of freedom because he isn't sorry for killing Michelle, and Leo will refuse to express remorse because he's always maintained his innocence. The timing of the second DCA's decision not to grant Leo a new trial, it couldn't be worse. COVID is in full swing and Chrissy and Ashley are not allowed any in person visits with Leo. Also, during this time, Leo's mom passes away and Leo witnesses an inmate gets stabbed to death.
00:32:57
Speaker 17: I mean, it really is shocking to me that we can get dis and not get any relief at all, you know, and then the reality is settling in that the the nightmare scenario that I could die in here, you know, and and that's just too heavy for me.
00:33:17
Speaker 5: Kelsey, I that's gonna be the straw that breaks my back.
00:33:20
Speaker 17: I can't do that. I just I'm not gonna give him another thirty I don't want to.
00:33:25
Speaker 22: I don't.
00:33:26
Speaker 19: I would feel totally wrong to allow that. I would rather end it myself. That's the gospel truth. I'm not gonna let my wife my daughter suffer through this crap anymore.
00:33:43
Speaker 12: I'm not. I'm just not gonna do it.
00:33:47
Speaker 17: So we're not gonna l anticipate it going that way. I'm believing I'm willing to take anything that allows me to go home and take care of my wife and daughter, short of admitting to something I didn't do.
00:34:01
Speaker 5: As Leo struggles to keep hope, I think about all the work Kelsey and I have put into this case. Nobody around Leo will ever say it, but we can feel it. They're putting all their hopes in our investigation, our story about Leo's case, and because I'm also very aware of the mountains that must be moved in order to overturn a wrongful conviction. I always make sure to temper any expectations. Telling Leo's story, no matter how truthfully and persuasively, is simply not a realistic path toward gaining his freedom. But there's no denying it. Our investigation, our story, might just be Leo's last hope, his last chance to convince people that he was wrongly convicted of murdering his wife, and that Jeremy Scott is Michelle's true murderer. We've seen how the State of Florida's false narrative has defined Leo's case. At the very least, we want to correct this narrative. Kelsey and I are thinking about where to look next, and there's one stone we've left unturned. We start thinking more and more about Jeremy Scott. Maybe he has more to say. We have to try to talk to him. So I write a letter to Jeremy and mail it off to him, and when I don't hear from him, I write another. I tell him that I'm an author and that I've been investigating the Leo Schofield case, and that I'm interested in his dealings with the State Attorney's office. I send him a self address, stamped envelope and some extra papers so he can write me back. I know he's been contacted by journalists in the past and that he doesn't respond, so my hopes are pretty low, but there's not much else I can do. It's the spring of twenty twenty and COVID is stopping us from traveling down to Florida. Sitting in my office in Brooklyn, I feel powerless. But the one thing I can do is write to Jeremy. So I keep at it, just hoping he'll change his mind and write back.
00:36:12
Speaker 2: Oh he shouldn't, Jeremy.
00:36:14
Speaker 5: And seven months later, I see that first letter sitting in my mailbox.
00:36:19
Speaker 2: She says, I want you to know that Polk County gave me a call about you. I don't think you can come see me. Who knows what will happen? And that is sad when I have kept my damn mouth shut for thirty one years. Schofield case. Let's say he should be out. I've thought about writing my story that no one wants to hear. I just don't really know how. Gotta go.
00:36:44
Speaker 1: Jay Scott, Well, okay, I.
00:36:51
Speaker 2: Think he's looking to as again.
00:36:53
Speaker 4: He got a call.
00:36:55
Speaker 1: It sounds like Peulk County made him believe that he is not allowed to talk to us, which they can't do.
00:37:05
Speaker 5: No, they can't, and that's why we're going to figure out what they did. We file a record request to find out who might have called him, but we're informed by the Florida Department of Corrections that they can't release those records. So I write Jeremy another letter. I want to see if he'd agree to a visit from us. I want him to know that I'm eager to hear his story, that I'm interested in anything and everything he has to say. I also send him a pre written consent letter. If he signs, it will allow me to visit and record an interview with him. It's not long before he sends the form back to me, signed, but the prisons in Florida are still locked down due to COVID. And then, once the Department of Corrections lifts the COVID restrictions about six weeks later, we find out that Jeremy has been placed in disciplinary confinement, so we can't visit him until he returns to general population, and who knows when that will be. As the months pass, we're constantly checking his status, there's no change, and he stops writing. Still, we wanted to find a way to get someone to look into Jeremy Scott. We felt we had some pretty compelling evidence linking Jeremy to the murder of cab driver Joseph Lavere back in nineteen eighty seven. It didn't feel right just sitting on what we'd collected, so I reached out to one of my contacts at the State
Attorney's Office in the Ninth Circuit. That's the office that handles all the cases in Osceola County, including the murder of Joseph Lavere. It seemed like there had to be fingerprints and potential sources of DNA from the taxi that could be tested. And if it turns out that Jeremy is forensically linked to a fourth murder, the murder of Joseph Lavere, the state's narrative that Jeremy is just a car stereo thief who had nothing to do with the murder of Michelle Schofield would look even more preposterous. But we're in a weird position. We'd collected so much information about what the State Attorney's office in Polk County had done wrong in failing to properly investigate Jeremy Scott, and now we were thinking about going to a neighboring county state attorney's office pointing out yet another failed investigation. We don't know how they're going to react, but we decide it's what we have to do. We managed to get a meeting lined up with the state Attorney's office in the Ninth Circuit and we presented our case over a zoom call.
00:39:38
Speaker 4: Okay, excellent.
00:39:40
Speaker 5: So I'm just going to talk to you a little bit about why I'm doing this and what I've learned and why I'm really getting.
00:39:46
Speaker 12: In touch with you.
00:39:47
Speaker 5: But I go through the whole thing. How while working on Leo's story, we came across the Lavere case. We tell them that Jeremy's girlfriend, Jamie, said that Jeremy made a spontaneous confession decades ago to getting away with killing a taxi cab driver, and how we think we've linked that spontaneous confession to the murder of Joseph Lavere, an Ossiola County homicide that's still unsolved. It had been over three decades since this office handled the case, and filed charges against dan Odie, the man who has tried twice and eventually acquitted. The folks were talking to weren't there at the time, so we tell them a bit about dan Odie and some of the accusations of police corruption that were exposed in court during his case.
00:40:33
Speaker 4: I know it was a lot to sort of absorb, and like I said, I'll hand over any documents, recordings, anything you think that might be helpful to you.
00:40:41
Speaker 5: They seem to understand how this investigation relates back to Leo's case.
00:40:46
Speaker 23: I just wondered if whole County wouldn't be cana frustrated a little bit to look at Jermaine's God. But they know that we're look at him or cold case, and I think it's with Scott absolutely.
00:41:04
Speaker 5: We tell them that we're hoping to meet with Jeremy. We're just waiting for him to get out of disciplinary confinement.
00:41:11
Speaker 3: You have every right as a citizen to engage other citizens, who include people who are in custody. But I think if if law enforcement's going to try to work this case, I would think they would want to be part of that conversation.
00:41:24
Speaker 8: If you're willing to extend that to the agency.
00:41:26
Speaker 5: They're basically saying that they
can't stop us from meeting with Jeremy, but they'd rather we don't. It could interfere with an investigation. In other words, let the cops do their job. I'm happy to step back and see what comes of their work. It could mean justice in a decade's old cold case, and it could also bring renewed attention to Leo's case.
00:41:48
Speaker 4: I just sort of want to see this move forward because I feel very strongly that Jeremy Scott is the suspect.
00:41:56
Speaker 5: We're hopeful that someone is finally going to investigate Jeremy's.
00:42:01
Speaker 24: It's nice to you.
00:42:02
Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
00:42:03
Speaker 5: I really appreciate it.
00:42:04
Speaker 4: I'll be in touch.
00:42:05
Speaker 5: I'll send my PowerPoint and i'll send documents and recordings. A few weeks later, we get a second letter from Jeremy. It's been seven months since the first one. I call Kelsey right away. She was sitting in a parking lot in Durham, North Carolina, trying to get the internet set up in her new apartment. So I record the call on my end or I think I do, okay, So I completely fucked that up and forgot to press record. That's what happens when you're not here. I have to do shit on my own and it doesn't work out as well as when you're here.
00:42:48
Speaker 12: So there we go.
00:42:52
Speaker 5: Yes, no, it doesn't happen to you, but it happens to me. Okay, So here it is. Okay. This letter dated March sixth, twenty twenty one, and it's from Jeremy, and he says, dear mister King, I don't know what it is that you want to know about Polk County prosecutors. They lied told me what they were gonna help me, but that never happened. That's why I told the whole truth about Leo Schofield. And I had also told them things that a killer would know. Leo didn't kill his wife.
00:43:26
Speaker 19: I did.
00:43:29
Speaker 5: That taxi cab driver that was shot by a three point fifty seven gun. They didn't want to hear what I had to say, that taxi cab driver. This is stunning to me. I never mentioned the cab driver in my letters. I was very intentional about that. I didn't want to confront him about the murder of Joseph Lavere because I was worried Jeremy might shut down and I'd lose the opportunity to sit with him in person. But how do we have this letter from him? And he's bringing up the cab driver murder completely unprompted. Jeremy goes on to write about his release from prison in nineteen eighty six. That was after his acquittal in the Jewel Johnson murder and after he served a few months on the arson charge. Following his release, he stays with his mother in Perry, Florida, until January, then with an uncle in Osceola County, just over the Polk County line. I keep reading anyway, while I was staying there, I took money and a big knife, not just any kind. That was the one use on Michelle. I took off in February nineteen eighty seven, went to Lakeland, Florida. I stole the gun after Michelle was killed, maybe a week or two. I can tell you the gun belonged to a
cop. I saw a picture in the house which is winter Haven. Leo Schofield and myself had the same prosecutor the same Now he ain't anywhere to be found. He lied to me, So I know there's people who have wanted to do story. I can't get money for this but if you or any of them are willing to send me paper stamps, I'm on CM two right now. CM two is the second level of close management. It's basically solitary confinement. That's why we haven't been able to visit him yet. Turns out Jeremy ended up there because corrections officers found a makeshift weapon in his shoe. They said they found a knife on me. I got to live that way. I am a walking dead man. I've been running for the last twenty years. I never stay in one place too long. They almost got me once. If you don't want the whole truth about Leo and cab driver, I will sail say my whole story to whoever will pay in stamps. I ain't asking for money, just a few books of stamps, or Leo will never be free. I will be waiting. I think it's time for to talk about it. I am safe in CM. I'll wait to hear from you. Jeremy Scott. He confessed to killing that cab driver. We didn't know what to expect from Jeremy, but in this letter he just confessed to two murders. We weren't surprised by his confession to killing Michelle Schofield because he'd confessed before. But this cab driver murder confession is shocking to read, and it's hard to wrap my head around why Jeremy brings this up. It's almost like he knows it's something that will eventually catch up with him. And he mentions the gun, which had always been a lingering question in my mind. The details he provides might even be information we can corroborate, like was there a gun reported stolen from a house in winter Haven around that time? If I can keep Jeremy corresponding with me, who knows what other details he might bring up. His writing is a little disjointed, but not too difficult to read. More importantly, it seems like he has a lot more to say, and he seems willing to say it. And so after we get this letter, we decide we need to turn over a copy to our contacts at the State Attorney's office in the Ninth Circuit. This letter seemed to validate everything we've just presented to them. This letter could even qualify as new evidence in the thirty four year old unsolved homicide of cab driver Joseph Laverere. We were hoping they'd move fast and compare the physical evidence it's recovered from the taxi to Jeremy fingerprints, DNA, any of it might have given us some answers. But a few weeks pass, and then a few more, and we hear nothing. It seems that the State Attorney's office isn't doing anything else to look into Jeremy Scott. So we spend the next few weeks agonizing about whether to stay in contact with Jeremy. Kelsey and I talk it over, and after waiting and waiting for some news or an update from the state, we decide, fuck it. I'm writing back to Jeremy Scott. I don't care if the state attorney doesn't want us talking to him. This time, I ask more specific questions, but still I avoid asking any direct questions about the cab driver murder. I'm trying to walk the line and not do anything to compromise the state's investigation, if there even is one. So I asked Jeremy about Michelle Schofield and the prosecutor John Aguero, and I send Jeremy some postage stamps. We discuss this too. Stamps are a sort of currency in the prison system, and we don't want Jeremy to think we're compensating him in exchange for his correspondence. On the other hand, he's basically in lockdown in close management, with time on his hands, and if he's bored and he finally wants to tell his story, I want to hear from him. Then finally we get an update from the State Attorney's office. They tell us that they want us to take our evidence to the Osciola County Sheriff's Office, the agency that originally handled the Joseph Lavere murder. So once again we compile all the evidence we have and on June twenty second, twenty twenty one, we show up in Kassimi to do our presentation. We are heading to the Osiola County Sheriff's Office for our big meeting, and so we've been trying to get this meeting for months. Just a few hours before our meeting, they email me saying they don't want us to record.
00:50:18
Speaker 1: How are you feeling it's this?
00:50:22
Speaker 5: I think, I mean, I feel pretty good that they're gonna have to do something about this. I don't think they can just blow us off. But I don't know what kind of worries me is. This is a dirty case, and they have to know it. If they look into it a little bit, they have to see it.
00:50:42
Speaker 1: All right, Well, it's about time to go in, right, all right, let's do it, Okay, I'm going to turn this off a degree after.
00:50:53
Speaker 5: We're brought inside to a conference room. About a half dozen people are there, and I set up my PowerPoint to display a big screen. I have police reports with witness descriptions and a sketch of the alleged suspect in the Joseph Lavere murder, a thin man around five foot ten, much closer to Jeremy's appearance than six foot four, two hundred and thirty five pound Dan Odie, who has tried twice for the murder. I also present records that show that fingerprints were lifted from the car, and I show them a photograph of a baseball cap that was found in the back seat of the cab, which police believed the suspect left behind. It's the same evidence I'm hoping they'll dig up from some storage locker and start analyzing. And I have tape of Jeremy's brother, Royal Dean Scott, saying he remembers talking to Jeremy about the cab driver, and how Jeremy left Osceola County shortly after the incident. I'd heard about the cab driver uh Man Robb, and I remember him saying something about it and that he had.
00:51:58
Speaker 7: To leave for the law.
00:52:03
Speaker 5: Then I have Jeremy's letter mentioning how he got the gun and how he has more to say about that killing. I stole the gun after Michelle was killed, maybe a week or two. I can tell
you the gun belonged to a cop. I think it's time for to talk about it. I'll wait to hear from you, Jeremy Scott. It seems like the main person we're trying to convince in this meeting is Major Wiley Black. He's the head of criminal investigations. To get to that position, Major Black has put in a lot of years with the sheriff's office. This gives us pause because this case has a lot to do with possible corruption within this sheriff's office. It's likely that Major Black both knew and worked with Deputy Buddy Shepherd that was the detective accused of threatening to take the children away from you. Young mother is in Intercession City. Unless they testified against dan Odie, we try our best to brush past the Buddy Shepherd accusations. We don't want them focusing on that now. We want them to be compelled to act because of the evidence we present and the opportunity to close a thirty four year old unsolved murder. So we show them what we have. They make photocopies of Jeremy's letters, We answer a few questions, and then it's over. Kelsey tells me to stay quiet until she can get the microphone out.
00:53:34
Speaker 1: How do you think that went?
00:53:36
Speaker 5: I don't think it went very well at all. What do you think, really?
00:53:40
Speaker 6: Yeah, why do you say that?
00:53:43
Speaker 5: I think they were engaged, they were listening. But I think the homicide detective Wiley Black, I think he to me, I felt like he was signaling that this case is going nowhere. Did you get that?
00:53:56
Speaker 1: I don't know, I thought he. I mean he said he was going to into the evidence. I think he was being realistic that it very likely could not exist at this point.
00:54:12
Speaker 5: But the fingerprints we know exist. I mean, they have copies of those prints and those can be at least be run. As we're getting ready to leave the parking lot at the Sheriff's office, it begins to rain like it does almost every summer afternoon in central Florida. The darkening sky matches our mood. I just got the feeling that this is going to die right here. This is a little frustrating because you can see the black hole sort of develop. I'm not encouraged at all by this. So we just have to like strategize about how to next steps and when do we start doing our own investigation.
00:54:57
Speaker 1: I mean, they didn't tell us to not go and talk to Jeremy, so yeah, there's that.
00:55:06
Speaker 5: I think that's what we have to do now.
00:55:08
Speaker 2: I just I just.
00:55:11
Speaker 1: I don't know. But it's freaking hot in this car. So you've got any of this? Is well, do you have any final thoughts?
00:55:21
Speaker 5: Yeah? I want to keep investigating this, and I want to talk to some of these witnesses that I've been steering clear of. And I want to start asking Jeremy in letters about that taxi cab driver. There could be something there. I don't want to stop on this Jeremy thing now. I just feel like, what are we gonna do?
00:55:43
Speaker 15: Right?
00:55:45
Speaker 1: Well, at least we got some free coffee out of that.
00:55:47
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, free coffee. Nice ride through Intercession City all right, let's get out of here.
00:55:54
Speaker 2: All right.
00:56:03
Speaker 5: We follow up with Major Wilie Black, who was sitting in the room with us, but our emails go unanswered. Weeks go by, and there doesn't seem to be any forward movement on the case. I get the sense that the Osceola County Sheriff's Office doesn't want this case reopened.
00:56:29
Speaker 24: Hey you there, yeah in.
00:56:31
Speaker 25: Here, ooks, are you recording?
00:56:35
Speaker 24: Yes, recording.
00:56:36
Speaker 5: Now we get another letter from Jeremy.
00:56:40
Speaker 22: All right, I'm opening this one. Feels this one feels a little thicker.
00:56:44
Speaker 24: I don't know why. Oh lord, Okay, okay, this was said on May sixte.
00:57:00
Speaker 5: Dear mister King, I received your letter along with ten stamps. First, let me tell you why I ask for stamps. It's the only way I can buy soap and food back here on CM. I don't have anyone to help me. I just want you to understand why I ask for stamps. I really don't have shit to do. I read when I can find books. I don't get any mail, not unless it's from you. Now about some of the things that you asked me about, Yes, John Aguero did prosecute both me and Leo, And yes, mister John Aguero did lie to me. They took me to see mister Aguero's office and he told me that Leo Lawyer wants to talk with me. Jeremy starts writing about that meeting he had with Aguero alone in his office after the fingerprints in the Mazda were identified killed. It sounds like Aguero was telling Jeremy that Leo and his father were bad guys who not only killed Michelle, but may have killed other girls too, and that Aguero needed Jeremy's help to keep Leo locked up. I think this is why Jeremy says things like I don't know what else Leo has done, but in this one he's innocent me. He went on talking about how he will be sitting on my parole, how he can write on my behalf. All I had to do is keep on saying how my fingerprint was in the car. At the time, I really thought he was gonna help me. I have heard a state attorney has help inmates before, and plus my grandma was still alive. But you were right, it was just me and John Aguero. Jeremy seems to be saying that Aguero was trying to cut a deal with him. Aguero would help Jeremy with his parole. If Jeremy stuck to the story about how is Prince ended up in Michelle's car, and after seeing how much sway the state attorney had over Leo's case, it makes sense why Jeremy might buy into this. It might have been Jeremy's only chance of being released from prison and spending any time on the outside with his grandmother. Jeremy goes on to mention a visit from some guy Leo's attorneys sent to speak to him, sounds like private investigator Pat McKenna. First, I wouldn't talk to him because everyone been lying to me. Then I heard that John Aguero died, so all these years later, I told myself that I will tell everything, and I did, but nobody believe me. I don't know what else I can do. I was telling the truth, nothing but the truth. And then he writes, I'm going to give you something. Okay, I'm going to give you something. Now Jeremy really has my attention. He sets up the night of Michelle's murder. It was raining most of the night. I just off I four went down North Comby where I used to live. Once I got off Comby Road, and head to Lakeland. I stop at a gas station. I can't remember the name. I knew it was raining. I was sick and cold, wet. There was a woman on the phone talking. She thought I was waiting on the phone. When she got off, she asked me if I was lost. I told her yes, and hadn't any way to get back to the place I was staying. She had a little car. She was nice and offered me a ride. So we went back down Cumby Road, going out by I four Underpath. I told her she could pull in there. There's little trees, a little road with a creak in it.
01:01:13
Speaker 2: I know it well.
01:01:15
Speaker 5: So she pulled in. Then she said there's no one here. I pulled a knife out. She went crazy, tried to push the gas, but I threw the car in park. When I first read this letter to Kelsey, this detail hit hard.
01:01:37
Speaker 25: Michelle tried to put the car and drive like it makes me sick, and that.
01:01:47
Speaker 22: You would have sucked up the car. That like that that's the reason it wasn't working. He sucked it up by doing it.
01:01:53
Speaker 5: Yeah, she tried to open the car door. That's when I lost it. I didn't remember how many times I stab I get out the car, went over where she was laying out the car door. She had opened it. I look at her, not knowing what.
01:02:18
Speaker 12: I just did.
01:02:20
Speaker 5: I was just pulling the knife so I could robbed her. I went look around for something to hide her. I found something looked like a big bag. I lay it out. Then I put her on the bag and rolling her up in it. Then took her down by the creek. I found a place where I could push her in, then cover her with wood trash. I don't understand why there was no blood in the car. She was stab in the car, not her trailer. I only took ten dollars that was on herd take any rings or anything else.
01:03:03
Speaker 22: I only took ten dollars that was on her, you know what, Like he took the bills the coins like they're fucking in the road, right, I mean, yeah, yeah, it's close enough to whatever. Thirteen dollars, you know what I mean?
01:03:16
Speaker 25: Also, I was never clear whether she had used the the tip money to buy the coke and the gas and the phone call. Oh, like, I don't know if it had been thirteen dollars.
01:03:31
Speaker 22: Holy shit. Yeah, that's amazing because she says what twee dollars, a gas and a coke. Yeah, there's no fucking way he knows that. Wow.
01:03:46
Speaker 5: I got back in the car, put it in drive, took off on I four. The car started slowing down. It wasn't out of gas. I
don't know why. It just died on me. I pull it along the road, park in the rain started stopping. It was close to midnight. No car were on I four, so that when I start cleaning up most of my prints and if there were blood, I cleaned it up. That when I tried to pull the radio and speaker out, they didn't tell people about that. Once I cleaned the car, I left the keys and locked the door. That's when I went up BY four. There is an overpath, there was a store and there was dumpster there. I threw the knife and something. I just can't remember what it was. I know that I cleaned the car with it. Jeremy goes on to write that he went back to Kassimi, breaking into homes, moving back and forth between Osceola and Polk Counties in March. He was eventually arrested for the murder of Donald Moorehead in November of nineteen eighty eight, a year and a half after Michelle Schofield and Joseph Lavere were killed. That's when he first meets his prosecutor, John Aguero. It wasn't, Jeremy continues in his letter. I told John Aguero he knew from the start Leo didn't kill her. Why was her car was on I four stuff missing out of the car, and why was my print was in it? Just like the taxicab driver.
01:05:33
Speaker 19: What am I to do?
01:05:35
Speaker 5: I'm been telling the truth. I don't know what else to do. I really want this to go away, but it won't. There's so much shit I need to tell, but I don't know how to put it. I will tell you this, even though John Aguero died, he knew from the start that I was the one who killed not Leo, mister king, I still would like to know how or who got you to write me. I hope to hear from you soon. I hope you can understand my letter. I ain't good at painting putting words together. Thank you so much for the stamps. Hope to hear from you soon. There's so much I need to tell right soon. Jeremy L. Scott ps. Why did the state attorney call me told me if I talk with you that I will be in trouble. Tell me what's going on.
01:06:45
Speaker 22: Holy fuck, oh man, Oh god, damn it, God fucking damn it. This is unbelievable. There's something fucking unbelievably sincere that comes across in that letter. I don't know what to think. Man, that that was really fucking powerful.
01:07:11
Speaker 25: For some reason, Yeah, that only makes me want to the fact that this guy is still saying the ship and his story makes so much sense.
01:07:24
Speaker 5: And it's just like knucking that to be done about it.
01:07:30
Speaker 22: And he's also saying like, I think I'll be out of here in June.
01:07:34
Speaker 5: By out of here he means out of close management, out of solitary. Once he's back in general population, we can schedule our interview with him. What I want to talk to him.
01:07:48
Speaker 22: I mean, honestly, I don't give a shit about those stamps anymore. Let them I'm just fucking keeping this guy talking. And if they say you gave him stamps so he bought soap, I'll go fuck you. He can have soap.
01:08:00
Speaker 25: Seriously, I don't have any hesitation keep sending him stand.
01:08:06
Speaker 6: That he can only buy.
01:08:08
Speaker 22: So For Jesus Christ, I think fuck it. I'm just I'm done with these I'm just done with asking permission to like reopen this case.
01:08:25
Speaker 24: Hey be there, yeah, right here, what's going on?
01:08:30
Speaker 22: So I just got off the phone with Paul Walker at the Department of Corrections and he said that Jereney is now in general population.
01:08:40
Speaker 25: Oh my god.
01:08:42
Speaker 24: So yeah, and so he's eligible for visitors again.
01:08:48
Speaker 22: But Jesus, finally some good news.
01:08:49
Speaker 19: I hope this.
01:08:50
Speaker 22: I just hope this holds.
01:08:51
Speaker 5: You know, after three years of investigating Leo's case, We're finally going to meet Jeremy's got Bone Valley is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number One. Our executive producers are Jason Flam and Kevin Wordiska Kornhaber is our senior producer. Britz Spangler is our sound designer. Roxandra Guidy is our editor. Fact checking by Maximo Anderson. Our producer and researcher is Kelsey Decker. Our theme song, The One Who's Holding the Stars, is performed by Lee Bob and The Truth. It was written by Leo Schofield and Kevin Herrick in Florida's Hardy Correctional Institution. Bone Valley is written and produced by me Gilbert King. You can follow the show on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at lava for Good to See