Full Transcript for The Black Perspective: December 07, 2025

--> 00:01:51.519 I think it's about the experience of making choices and 36 00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:55.040 decisions for yourself. When you grew up in the real, 37 00:01:55.159 --> 00:01:58.959 true inner city, you don't have the luxury of being 38 00:01:59.159 --> 00:02:02.760 like a suburban kid or a kid born with a 39 00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:05.879 silver spoon from the day you're born. You like an 40 00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:10.280 animal out not that we are animals, but the concept 41 00:02:10.439 --> 00:02:13.800 of how animals in the wild are born and have 42 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:16.639 to from the moment they're born, learn to run and 43 00:02:16.719 --> 00:02:21.400 walk and eat and be on the lookout for the enemy. 44 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:25.120 When you're raised in the inner city, it is not 45 00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:28.560 that much different. I mean, you're making life and death 46 00:02:28.639 --> 00:02:33.120 decisions before you're even nine ten years old. Because one 47 00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:37.599 wrong move down the block, down the alley behind a car, 48 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:42.599 one conversation the wrong way overheard. I mean, it could 49 00:02:42.599 --> 00:02:45.639 be the end of your life. So you make decisions 50 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:48.360 from the beginning that by the time you get to 51 00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:55.159 the league or you get to that higher level, everything 52 00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:58.080 is monumental. And I think that the stress of that 53 00:02:59.199 --> 00:03:02.520 has an impact and has had impact on a lot 54 00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:05.400 of guys. I'm looking at some of the young guys 55 00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:08.639 that are playing now that came from the inner City 56 00:03:08.680 --> 00:03:10.840 and they brought the inner city to the NBA. But 57 00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:14.639 don't realize that the NBA don't do that. You don't 58 00:03:14.680 --> 00:03:19.199 get the opportunity to bring your inner city or your 59 00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:24.319 ghetto fabulousness consistently to the NBA level because that's how 60 00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:28.479 they make their money, that's where their brand is. And 61 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:32.039 it ain't nothing new because truth is, mostly all of 62 00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:35.120 us who have come from the inner city have had 63 00:03:35.159 --> 00:03:39.080 to make the decision or the choice as to whether 64 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:40.719 or not we would bring it with us when we 65 00:03:40.759 --> 00:03:44.599 got there, because all our friends claimed us, everybody in 66 00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:48.039 the neighborhood claimed us, and they claimed our success too. 67 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:51.759 You know. My mother told me like this, and I 68 00:03:51.800 --> 00:03:55.319 haven't forgotten that either, because she saw the struggle I 69 00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:58.120 was having with some of my friends that i'd gone 70 00:03:58.159 --> 00:04:01.319 to high school where we were real close, and she 71 00:04:01.439 --> 00:04:05.000 told me, she said, Tarry, she said, you go and 72 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:07.560 do what you set in your mind in your heart 73 00:04:07.639 --> 00:04:10.520 to do. She said, because I guarantee your friends will 74 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:13.039 be right where you left them when you come back. 75 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:18.759 And it's true, a lot of them are still where 76 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:23.040 they were when I left way back in nineteen eighty 77 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:27.040 eighty one, you know, and they still live in the 78 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:30.319 same area. They're still doing some of the same things, 79 00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:34.319 you know. So I think it comes down to choices. 80 00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:38.120 You have to choose a direction, you have to decide 81 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:41.240 upon it. I mean, it's kind of like love. People say, well, 82 00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:44.240 you know, love is blind. No, it's not. Love is 83 00:04:44.279 --> 00:04:47.680 decisive because it's about the individual who's deciding whether or 84 00:04:47.720 --> 00:04:50.399 not they want a love or not. So when it 85 00:04:50.439 --> 00:04:55.360 comes to love, it's a decision, and the real decision 86 00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:59.600 is that you either choose it or you don't. You know, 87 00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:02.399 and ain't love's fault and it's yours because you're the 88 00:05:02.439 --> 00:05:03.360 decision maker. 89 00:05:03.759 --> 00:05:06.439 Well, I gotta I gotta ask you then, because as 90 00:05:06.439 --> 00:05:11.560 you mentioned, you know, you leaving Chicago and obviously having 91 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:15.079 you know, your career taking you in so many different directions, 92 00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:19.639 so many places and traveling, what brought you to Atlanta? 93 00:05:19.879 --> 00:05:23.240 What brought you to Georgia because we're pretty far away 94 00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:23.920 from Chicago. 95 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:28.920 Yeah, but I'd always admired Atlanta, and to me, Atlanta 96 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:33.199 had always been like a you know, for for ministry. 97 00:05:33.560 --> 00:05:38.399 It had always been like one of those places where 98 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:42.639 everybody was coming through it was it was a mecca. 99 00:05:42.839 --> 00:05:45.519 That's the word I wanted to use it always Atlanta 100 00:05:45.560 --> 00:05:48.560 had always been. And then my best friends were here 101 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:51.959 and they were pastoring, and we'd always talked about when 102 00:05:52.040 --> 00:05:54.800 I did retire that I would come back here and 103 00:05:54.879 --> 00:05:57.920 help them in the ministry. And so it wound up 104 00:05:57.959 --> 00:06:01.639 that I wound up at the church working with them 105 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:05.480 and serving with them for about two or three years 106 00:06:05.480 --> 00:06:09.560 before

I started pastoring my own ministry here. So that 107 00:06:09.759 --> 00:06:13.439 was one of the things that brought me here. Aside 108 00:06:13.480 --> 00:06:16.480 from at the time, I think it would have been 109 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:19.759 like O three. I wound up getting engaged here, so 110 00:06:19.839 --> 00:06:23.639 I was thinking totally like, okay, go in there, let 111 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:26.000 me go. I don't need to have all the extra stuff, 112 00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:29.199 so let me go get married. And problem was it 113 00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:32.600 just it wasn't the right time and things just didn't 114 00:06:32.600 --> 00:06:35.000 work out, which is probably better for both of us 115 00:06:35.079 --> 00:06:38.879 because we didn't really know each other. You know, sometimes 116 00:06:38.920 --> 00:06:40.480 you can just go in and say, well, you know, 117 00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:43.360 everything is coming together. I guess I could pull this 118 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:47.120 piece into and make it work. And the thing is is, 119 00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:51.000 the relationships don't work that way. They have a time 120 00:06:51.079 --> 00:06:54.079 on them too, and they have an expiration date, and 121 00:06:54.120 --> 00:06:56.759 whether we like it or not, it's there. That's how 122 00:06:56.800 --> 00:06:58.720 I got to Atlanta. 123 00:06:58.920 --> 00:07:01.480 Well, and it's interesting. So even when you, you know, 124 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:05.879 started pulling those pieces, it wasn't necessarily that you were like, Okay, 125 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:08.279 I'm gonna come to Atlanta. I'm gonna set up my 126 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:11.319 own church. I'm gonna, you know, have a congregation. That 127 00:07:11.480 --> 00:07:15.680 was not necessarily a part of that picture. That took 128 00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:17.800 a little bit more time to become, to have more 129 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:19.399 clarity to it. 130 00:07:19.399 --> 00:07:21.240 It took a little bit more time for me to 131 00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:26.600 be convinced because that was never one of my things. 132 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:29.639 I always told her I don't want a pastor. I said, 133 00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:33.439 I'll do whatever else. I'll serve in whatever capacity that 134 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:36.839 you want. But I pastored pastors for almost thirty years, 135 00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:40.279 so I knew the struggle of the pastorships. So I 136 00:07:41.079 --> 00:07:44.160 didn't want that at all, you know, because that's a 137 00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:48.199 it's a heavy burden. I mean, it's the one office 138 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:52.480 positionally where the people are with you twenty four seven, 139 00:07:52.600 --> 00:07:55.959 seven days a week, you know, three sixty five a year. 140 00:07:56.079 --> 00:07:58.879 You know, these people get real comfortable with you. And 141 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:03.120 I found is that one of the most difficult things 142 00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:06.639 about being a minister period is that you are never 143 00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:11.120 allowed the same grace that you give to others. In 144 00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:15.879 other words, like others in their weaknesses. And it's like 145 00:08:15.920 --> 00:08:18.439 they forget they tell you all their business and at 146 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:21.079 the same time they crucifying you over yours. 147 00:08:21.399 --> 00:08:23.839 Yeah, because they see you at that point on. You know, 148 00:08:23.879 --> 00:08:25.759 I don't want to say a pedestal as much as 149 00:08:25.759 --> 00:08:27.160 but you're a role model. 150 00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:31.680 Yeah, and not a human being. Because the other part 151 00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:35.240 of it, Katie, is that leaders have every right that 152 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:40.039 parishioners have to grow up. But growth never happens without failure. 153 00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:42.720 The problem is most people can't handle the failure of 154 00:08:42.759 --> 00:08:43.360 their leaders. 155 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:46.559 I mean, in many cases, depending on what that bar 156 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:49.279 is set for, many people struggle with failure in general. 157 00:08:49.679 --> 00:08:55.240 Yeah. Yeah, And there's no true I learned this very young. 158 00:08:55.279 --> 00:08:59.360 There's no true success without failure. You can say all 159 00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:02.320 people can say all they want about how successful they are, 160 00:09:02.639 --> 00:09:06.279 but if they have had no failures, they're not really successful, 161 00:09:06.679 --> 00:09:10.519 which means that when they do finally have that moment 162 00:09:10.679 --> 00:09:15.600 where they fail or they fall, they'll fall all the 163 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:18.159 way back to the bottom because they didn't take the 164 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:20.519 time to do it the right way, which you you 165 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:23.440 go through those levels, those levels kind of hold you 166 00:09:23.559 --> 00:09:26.559 up because eventually you will fall. And I think it's 167 00:09:26.840 --> 00:09:31.320 another scripture say's counted all joy when you when you 168 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:36.240 fall into divers temptations, and that when implies that it 169 00:09:36.279 --> 00:09:38.399 doesn't matter who you are, that's going to come a 170 00:09:38.519 --> 00:09:42.720 time when you're going to fall. You know, the temptation 171 00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:46.000 is going to lead you down a road. And it's 172 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:49.960 really not about the failure of falling. It's the failure 173 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:53.440 of not getting up. That's where real failure is. Because 174 00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:56.519 as long as you keep getting up. There's no failure 175 00:09:56.559 --> 00:10:01.440 in that. I mean, because everybody, we all fall short. 176 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:05.600 We all have

these things in our lives that calls 177 00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:09.320 us travail and calls us pain and calls us to 178 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:12.879 move away from the troops as we know them, principles 179 00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:17.120 or whatever. But I've looked at life like this should. 180 00:10:17.480 --> 00:10:20.000 If it hadn't meant for the failures of my life, 181 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:23.080 I would never honor success the way I do. 182 00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:28.799 I really appreciate you sharing that because it is interesting 183 00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:33.600 just thinking about many different stories are people that we 184 00:10:33.799 --> 00:10:37.720 view as a society as successful. And as you were 185 00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:40.240 explaining that, I was trying to rack through my head 186 00:10:40.240 --> 00:10:42.039 of I think that that's part of the story that 187 00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:44.360 many times we tend to graze over. We focus on 188 00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:47.519 the they started here and they reached here. There's a 189 00:10:47.559 --> 00:10:49.679 lot in between that might be missing. 190 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:55.399 Yeah, called the process. And the process in life is 191 00:10:55.480 --> 00:10:59.279 the worst and the best, the best because the best 192 00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:02.000 comes out of the worst, Because it's the worst you 193 00:11:02.039 --> 00:11:04.799 will ever look. It is the true and the Greek 194 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:12.120 the word is metamorphous. It is the true ugliness of growth. 195 00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:16.080 It happens in the process. In the process, we are 196 00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:22.240 never going to be uglier dissatisfying to people on the outside, 197 00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:25.240 and those who hope for the best for us are 198 00:11:25.399 --> 00:11:28.960 so discouraged when they see us in that place, but 199 00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:31.759 they don't realize that they've been there or are there 200 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:35.120 now too, you know. And the thing is is there's 201 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:38.960 a certain amount of grace that has to be You 202 00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:42.559 don't really necessarily need it from people. You need it 203 00:11:42.600 --> 00:11:45.759 from God, and you need it for yourself, you know, 204 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:51.240 a grace which is defined as an unmarrited favor, something 205 00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:54.639 that you don't deserve, but you still need to get 206 00:11:54.679 --> 00:11:59.440 over the process. That to me is that process, I 207 00:11:59.480 --> 00:12:02.960 always say, is the ugliest I've ever seen myself, the 208 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:07.120 weakest I've ever seen myself, the most distraught I've ever 209 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:10.519 seen myself as in the process, because that's the place 210 00:12:10.600 --> 00:12:18.279 where the old rider called the potter and the clay. 211 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:21.039 That's the

place where the clay is on the spindle 212 00:12:21.559 --> 00:12:25.039 and the potter is forming it and reforming it, and 213 00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:30.240 it goes through all these different ugly looks and messy 214 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:34.360 looking things until it comes to the form that the 215 00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:37.360 potter meant for it to be from the start, and 216 00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:38.799 it takes time to get there. 217 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:43.679 So part of that process and the insight that you 218 00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:46.480 were were going into it. That was something that kind 219 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:50.440 of maybe gave you hesitation towards beginning your own church 220 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:52.559 and really building the congregation. 221 00:12:52.759 --> 00:12:55.399 Yeah, I think important because I felt like I was 222 00:12:55.519 --> 00:12:57.919 first of all, I was inadequate, and then I felt 223 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:02.000 like I'd gotten married at nineteen and I was divorced 224 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:05.639 by the time I was thirty four, married about thirteen 225 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:11.200 fourteen years, but I had never been single. So one 226 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:14.080 thing about me is I tend to be very transparent 227 00:13:14.120 --> 00:13:16.519 because I want people to be helped when I do 228 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:22.639 stuff like these interviews. And I struggled with my flesh 229 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:26.159 because I had never had to. I was married as 230 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:28.559 a young man, you know, through my teenage years. 231 00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:29.360 I was married. 232 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:34.440 And I found out later that the whole point of 233 00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:38.759 a call on your life, and it doesn't have to 234 00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:41.039 just be ministry. It can be whatever it is your 235 00:13:41.080 --> 00:13:43.960 call to do, but the whole point of it is 236 00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:46.919 to help you with the areas that you can't be 237 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:50.360 helped with any other way. I mean, the ministry and 238 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:55.200 pastoring people forced me into a whole nother level of 239 00:13:55.320 --> 00:14:00.240 character because you need to be seen differently, not as 240 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:03.600 a god, not as an idol, but as a chief 241 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:07.320 among equals. We're all equal, but they're chief among equals, 242 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:10.720 and there's a level of respect that goes both ways. 243 00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:16.240 It is a respect that comes because of how you 244 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:20.840 live and what you preach, and it comes and it 245 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:25.759 goes to them because they honor the truth or that 246 00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:30.559 character that's in you enough to accept your words that 247 00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:33.759 you're sharing. And when I became single, I found out 248 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:38.000 I wasn't and that, within itself, was a life lesson 249 00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:41.360 for me that just when you think you're at your strongest, 250 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:44.840 you're really at your weakest, and you're your most vulnerableness, 251 00:14:45.159 --> 00:14:49.000 you know, very vulnerable in that place where you think 252 00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:52.120 that you're stronger than you really are, because then your 253 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:56.480 pride is going to be your downfall. You know the 254 00:14:56.480 --> 00:15:00.919 old proverb that your pride comes before or downfall, and 255 00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:05.799 humility before honor. You know, so when you when you 256 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:07.720 get to the place where you know, I ain't ain't 257 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:09.960 nothing not that it can get me off my post, 258 00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:13.039 ain't nobody make me slipping fall. I was slipping like 259 00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:16.679 I was on ice, as you know I was. I 260 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:19.559 was making the kind of mistakes that that that I 261 00:15:19.639 --> 00:15:23.720 never thought I would have made, but I did you, 262 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:27.159 And in part I'm glad I did because I get 263 00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:30.480 to talk about it from a perspective as a leader 264 00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:35.440 of having visited some things that I think can help 265 00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:39.600 shape and reshape other people and give them hope that 266 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:42.360 they can get to the other side, because it's a 267 00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:44.120 constant battle, but you can get there. 268 00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:48.320 Do you feel like you are working on or you've 269 00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:51.679 you've found improvements and being able to balance that level 270 00:15:51.679 --> 00:15:56.240 of like the transparency and the honesty about obviously like 271 00:15:56.360 --> 00:15:59.679 being a human being and going through that and conveying 272 00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:02.679 a message of hope and being able to so lead 273 00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:03.279 with character. 274 00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:04.200 Yeah. 275 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:09.679 Yeah. I wrote a book called Limitless and Limitless was 276 00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:14.840 my testimony about how I found myself on the journey 277 00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:18.879 of lives because I think where most people fail in 278 00:16:19.240 --> 00:16:24.000 their attempt to overcome their flesh and their weaknesses is 279 00:16:24.039 --> 00:16:27.000 that they have not taken the time to learn about 280 00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:31.919 themselves and to love themselves. Because most times our failures 281 00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:34.000 are based on the fact that we don't even know 282 00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:37.360 who we are. So we're out there just like rummaging 283 00:16:37.399 --> 00:16:40.000 through

all kinds of stuff and all kinds of people 284 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:44.279 and places and things because we're looking for something that 285 00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:48.080 tells us who we are when it's really inwardly. Inwardly, 286 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:50.919 you got to get inside yourself and you have to 287 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:53.159 learn to be honest with yourself. Like I had to 288 00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:56.440 admit to myself that I was who I was. You 289 00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:00.639 understand what I'm saying. I couldn't sit there and say, no, 290 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:03.039 that ain't who I am. I just made a mistake. No, 291 00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:06.200 that's who I am right now, and that's who I 292 00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:09.480 am until I change, you know. And I can't change 293 00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:11.359 on my own cause if I could have, I would 294 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:14.640 have already done in it. So there's that other piece 295 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:18.319 that has to depend on God, I mean, because he's 296 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:21.599 the one that has the ability to do things for 297 00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:24.759 us that we cannot do for ourselves. And I trust 298 00:17:24.759 --> 00:17:25.880 that with my whole heart. 299 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:29.400 Thank you, Katie and Terry. The Black Information Networks. Morgan 300 00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:32.799 Woods spoke to doctor okay Enya, a Washington, d c. 301 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:37.519 Based government relations executive, public health scholar and author of 302 00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:40.720 the John Henry Health Equity Playbook at four Year Health 303 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:43.880 Policy Agenda for Black Men. The two have an important 304 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:47.039 conversation about health equity and the future of policy for 305 00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:50.279 black men and boys. Here is part two of that conversation. 306 00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:53.200 Absolutely and if you're just joining us. We're speaking with 307 00:17:53.559 --> 00:17:57.920 doctor okay Enya, public health scholar and author of the 308 00:17:58.119 --> 00:18:02.759 John Henry Health Equity Playbook. Now we're unpacking how economic stabilities, 309 00:18:02.759 --> 00:18:07.480 civic engagement, and mental and physical wellness all connect, especially 310 00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:11.640 when it's talking about or in regards to black men 311 00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:16.480 and boys and their health. Now, speaking of which, you 312 00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:23.039 know that mental health and masculinity, at least, stigma wise, 313 00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:25.640 do not go hand in hand. You know, that is 314 00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:30.359 not something that we see cross intersect in our community, 315 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:34.039 even though it really truly does. Right, So, how can 316 00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:39.039 we reframe that stigma, reframe the conversations around being a 317 00:18:39.160 -->

00:18:40.799 man and making. 318 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:43.079 Sure that you actually have access to. 319 00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:49.599 Mental health resources and just you know, destigmatizing that in 320 00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:51.200 regards to black men and boys. 321 00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:53.599 What would you say to that, Yes. 322 00:18:53.440 --> 00:18:56.160 That's a great question. So I use myself as as 323 00:18:56.200 --> 00:18:59.079 an example. I've been seeing a black my psychologist for 324 00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:02.920 the past every year, is at least once a month, 325 00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:06.559 just at a minimum, like this is my maintenance, this 326 00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:09.119 is so like so, and so that's part of how 327 00:19:09.160 --> 00:19:15.039 I normalize seeking help. And but that has borne out 328 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:19.279 of my lived experience of you know, growing up in 329 00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:23.039 a in a home where yes, we know Jesus will 330 00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:26.920 fix it, but there are also therapists who are trained 331 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:31.359 to give you language in context for what's happening. 332 00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:33.480 Right. And so I've lived. 333 00:19:33.319 --> 00:19:39.359 The the depression, the anxiety, the trauma of the confusion, 334 00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:41.960 like I've been there at different points in my life, 335 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:46.160 but I've now I've gotten to a place where because 336 00:19:46.279 --> 00:19:47.200 I've been I've been. 337 00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:48.319 Blessed to have the community. 338 00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:51.160 And I sell all the time that that you can't 339 00:19:51.160 --> 00:19:57.079 be your best self by yourself. It's it's seeking that support. 340 00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:01.359 And then also for me having an executive coach that 341 00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:05.200 I work with, and so it's talking for me as 342 00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:09.079 a blackmailist. Actually the first step is talking about my 343 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:14.839 own experience and giving other people, giving other people the 344 00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:19.880 permission to talk about their own experiences. And it's also 345 00:20:19.960 --> 00:20:26.200 about being willing to be an advocate in a voice 346 00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:31.200 for the voiceless and ensuring that black men have safe 347 00:20:31.799 --> 00:20:36.359 spaces to talk and just be and like unmasked. And 348 00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:42.279 so it starts with me, for example, being an example 349 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:46.680 and saying, hey, you know, these are my challenges, but 350 00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:48.920 here are the ways in which I am seeking help. 351 00:20:49.880 --> 00:20:55.079 Here with some language and some resources that I found helpful. 352 00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:58.400 And yes, there are challenges with access to care and 353 00:20:58.519 --> 00:21:02.880 access to providers who are who are culturally competent. And 354 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:10.599 that's an entire other conversation. But part of my hope 355 00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:14.079 in writing this book is to is to put the 356 00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:19.599 data in the hands of those who need this data 357 00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:23.359 to say, Okay, we know that there are some disparities here, 358 00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:26.559 but here are some resources. And when you're able to 359 00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:30.799 talk about your own experience, I found that that gives 360 00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:36.640 people permission to be vulnerable, to be transparent about. 361 00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:37.279 Their own. 362 00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:42.920 Here the link journey, and that helps to build the 363 00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:47.640 community to a place where others feel comfortable doing the same. 364 00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:51.960 Yes, absolutely, you likened it to maintenance. You likened your. 365 00:21:53.799 --> 00:21:57.680 Visits with your therapist to maintenance. Can you talk to 366 00:21:57.720 --> 00:21:59.799 me and tell me a little bit more about your 367 00:21:59.839 --> 00:22:04.039 own own lived experience and how that has actually been 368 00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:07.359 beneficial to you in terms of that maintenance. How do 369 00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:11.160 you feel once you have put yourself through that maintenance 370 00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:13.599 per se? 371 00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:14.799 Yes. 372 00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:23.160 So, my first about with depression that that I actually 373 00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:25.240 knew was depression was when I was in medical school, 374 00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:29.519 and I was several years ago, and and so wh 375 00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:35.279 I started my my my med school journey well, I was. 376 00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:38.359 I was one of maybe I think six other black 377 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:43.680 men in my foreheart about seventy two students, and so 378 00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:49.640 it was very lonely I studying experience, going to a 379 00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:53.599 school that didn't have many mentors or support uh, and 380 00:22:53.640 --> 00:23:01.039 I fell into depression and just kind of racial trauma. 381 00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:05.720 Being one of the few I uh uh was part 382 00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:09.400 of a community, and in this case my fraternity off 383 00:23:09.400 --> 00:23:12.400 of pay Offa. There were brothers in my life who 384 00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:15.960 were able to put language to what I was experiencing. 385 00:23:16.599 --> 00:23:20.880 And because of that, uh, that community, I was able 386 00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:25.200 to begin to seek out support in a way that 387 00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:28.240 was very timely and helpful. 388 00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:32.559 And so you know, I it's and. 389 00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:37.720 So because of those experiences, I know much better and 390

00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:44.119 I put a a robust self care and soul care 391 00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:50.160 regimen in place that incorporates my physical health, my mental health, 392 00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:55.799 emotional health, et cetera. Because I was blessed to have 393 00:23:56.200 --> 00:24:00.279 people in my life to help me get the that 394 00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:04.359 I needed. And so, you know, my hope is that 395 00:24:05.240 --> 00:24:08.480 sharing about my own experience and seeing the benefits of 396 00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:13.039 therapy and the growth and the evolution to be my 397 00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:17.480 best self, to to not just survive, but thrive is 398 00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:18.240 also what. 399 00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:23.359 Drive me to do what I do? 400 00:24:24.200 --> 00:24:26.559 Absolutely, and you also mentioned that. 401 00:24:28.359 --> 00:24:31.559 You talked about being in a space in medical school 402 00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:36.519 where you were one of very few black men. Can 403 00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:40.519 you speak to me about the representation around that. I 404 00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:43.960 have recently been talking to some other medical professionals, black 405 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:47.200 medical professionals, and many of them say that they are 406 00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:50.440 one of two, one of three, one of five. And 407 00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:55.279 they also to an extent, echo your sentiment about feeling 408 00:24:55.400 --> 00:24:58.039 isolated in that space because they're you know, you're going 409 00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:01.519 through your studies and maybe you're dealing with socioeconomic issues 410 00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:04.480 that the next person may not be dealing with. Can 411 00:25:04.519 --> 00:25:08.480 you speak to me about the importance of having black men, 412 00:25:08.680 --> 00:25:13.039 black women in the field of STEM, in the field 413 00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:13.680 of medicine. 414 00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:23.599 Absolutely, so, five percent positions in the United States are black, 415 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:27.880 three percent of your type. 416 00:25:27.640 --> 00:25:30.480 Of of the. 417 00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:33.079 Of the of the physician workforce in the United States 418 00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:37.640 are black men. And and that has been a long 419 00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:43.039 standing issue for decades. And so it speaks to a 420 00:25:43.720 --> 00:25:50.400 pipeline issue, UH that is rooted in white supremacy and 421 00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:59.200 structural racism and those barriers of how do we UH disrupt, dismountle, 422 00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:03.920 and or transform systems that weren't built with us in mind. 423 00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:09.400 And so even in my doctor program more recently, I 424 00:26:09.559 --> 00:26:13.119 was one of two black men in my cowards of 425 00:26:13.240 --> 00:26:16.759 thirty students, and there were three black women, and I

426 00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:26.480 was the only so out of my doctor program. 427 00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:24.680 The year that I graduated. 428 00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:29.279 Last year, I was the only black male to earn 429 00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:32.960 the degree from my department. 430 00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:35.680 Across the entire school. 431 00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:42.440 And so, yes, and so that's why I'm so passionate 432 00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:48.559 about ensuring that wherever I happened to be, how can 433 00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:51.000 I make this place better than how I found it? 434 00:26:51.160 --> 00:26:54.160 How can I strengthen or lengthen the pipeline for others 435 00:26:54.200 --> 00:26:57.960 that looked like me to again not. 436 00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:02.160 Just survive, but thrive and so and so. 437 00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:05.000 Yeah, you know, when you have five percent of doctors 438 00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:08.359 that are black and black black in the country and 439 00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:13.200 then you have just three percent that are black male doctors, 440 00:27:13.519 --> 00:27:15.880 you know these lost any issues. We got to do 441 00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:19.680 much more to be able to really help our people. 442 00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:24.079 Absolutely, doctor, and ya, before I let you go, is 443 00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:26.839 there anything that I did not touch on that you 444 00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:30.599 want to mention regarding your book or just overall health 445 00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:32.559 of black men black boys. 446 00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:37.319 So you know, first of all, thank you so much. 447 00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:39.559 For having me. I really have enjoyed this conversation. 448 00:27:39.640 --> 00:27:42.240 I will look forward to more conversations as things evolved. 449 00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:45.680 I think we will do this again for sure. We've 450 00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:47.839 only been going to scratch the surface here. 451 00:27:49.079 --> 00:27:50.759 I love it, and I you know, I'm going to 452 00:27:50.759 --> 00:27:53.359 book to it now. I'm going to be going to 453 00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:55.680 a few cities across the country over the next few months, 454 00:27:55.920 --> 00:27:58.039 and then as we look at twenty twenty six, you know, 455 00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:01.880 I'm looking for it to June, which is which is 456 00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:06.279 Men's Health Month, and then looking at the midterms next year. 457 00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:09.319 So I have you know, I'm just really excited to 458 00:28:09.400 --> 00:28:13.759 be able to uh serve in this capacity. My website 459 00:28:13.839 --> 00:28:17.680 is and your Strategies dot com. That's E N Y 460 00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:24.680 I A S t R A uh T E G 461 00:28:24.839 --> 00:28:27.680 I E S dot com. You can find my books there. 462 00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:31.839 Happy to serve as a as a resource for you 463 00:28:31.880 --> 00:28:34.720 and your audience. And yeah, you know, I'm just really 464 00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:38.440 passionate about reimagining black men in terms of their their 465 00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:41.680 health and wellbeing across the country and around the world. 466 00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:45.759 Absolutely, thank you so much for joining us, doctor Okay 467 00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:49.960 and your government relations executive, public health scholar and author 468 00:28:50.119 --> 00:28:54.240 of the John Henry Health Equity Playbook, a four year 469 00:28:54.279 --> 00:28:57.240 health policy agenda for Black men. 470 00:28:57.799 --> 00:28:59.680 Now you can, as he mentioned it. 471 00:28:59.559 --> 00:29:02.839 Get a sign copy of that book at Anya Strategies 472 00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:06.519 dot com forwards Lash Books. Of course, again, thank you, 473 00:29:06.599 --> 00:29:10.480 doctor Enya. Conversations like this remind me or us, it 474 00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:14.880 should remind us that health isn't personal. It's also political, 475 00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:17.960 it's cultural, and of course it is about our community. 476 00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:21.319 So I thank you for joining us to have this conversation. 477 00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:24.319 And as I did mention before, I feel like we're 478 00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:27.359 just beginning to scratch the surface, and I think me 479 00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:29.480 and you together at least we can do great work 480 00:29:29.480 --> 00:29:31.240 in amplifying this message. 481 00:29:31.720 --> 00:29:32.960 Thank you. I look forward to it. 482 00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:35.519 Yes, all right, well, I'm Morgan would on the Black 483 00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:36.440 Information Network. 484 00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:40.720 Thanks Morgan and doctor Enya. Actress and entrepreneur Tia Maury 485 00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:44.079 is teaming up with the American Cancer Society to start 486 00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:47.880 a powerful conversation in Black families this holiday season, one 487 00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:52.319 that blends great food, family traditions, and the hard truths 488 00:29:52.359 --> 00:29:56.160 about cancer and early detection. Our own desther Dillard said 489 00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:58.359 down with her to talk about the new initiative, the 490 00:29:58.440 --> 00:30:01.440 importance of screenings, and how families can use the holidays 491 00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:02.480 to protect their health. 492 00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:12.680 When you know your family history and you get that 493 00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:20.480 or the news about an abnormality in your breast, it's scary. 494 00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:23.279 In this edition of The Color Between the Lines, we're 495 00:30:23.319 --> 00:30:28.440 speaking with actress, entrepreneur, author, and advocate Tiamari. With the 496 00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:32.480 holidays approaching a time filled with great food, family gatherings, 497 00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:36.079 and traditions, Tia is

using this season to spark something deeper, 498 00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:40.400 the hard but necessary conversations about cancer and black health. 499 00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:43.559 As part of her partnership with the American Cancer Society, 500 00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:48.119 she's helping families openly talk about screenings, early detection, and 501 00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:51.799 health disparities that continue to affect our community. She also 502 00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:55.319 shares her personal story from losing loved ones to cancer 503 00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:59.839 to navigating a recent abnormal mammogrant scare. It's an honest, 504 00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:04.559 heartfelt conversation about protecting our families, honoring our traditions, and 505 00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:08.640 changing the odds for future generations. Well, I know that 506 00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:12.119 you are on this tour and you are busy person, 507 00:31:13.160 --> 00:31:14.599 and you look fabulous. 508 00:31:14.599 --> 00:31:16.559 By the way, Oh my gosh, thank you. 509 00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:21.720 I'm working on receiving you know, so I really I 510 00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:23.920 receive that, So thank you very much. 511 00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:24.799 I appreciate it. 512 00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:26.680 Well. 513 00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:29.559 I know this campaign. I've read a little bit about it, 514 00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:32.559 but I really like you to talk more about how 515 00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:35.519 you're trying to encourage black families to talk about cancer 516 00:31:35.599 --> 00:31:39.119 around the dinner table. That's something that a lot of 517 00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:43.279 us have not been raised to do. Why did you 518 00:31:43.319 --> 00:31:45.119 think that this was really the right time to do 519 00:31:45.160 --> 00:31:45.839 something like that. 520 00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:50.079 Yes, so, first off, I just want to say, many 521 00:31:50.119 --> 00:31:53.680 people they feel overwhelmed and they don't necessarily want to 522 00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:56.359 talk about the big CEA, right, But I feel like 523 00:31:56.559 --> 00:31:59.440 that is where change happens. 524 00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:03.400 Change highlight it in the YouTube online series called Changing 525 00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:07.759 the Odds Against Cancer with Tamari and the American Cancer Society. 526 00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:11.920 I would love for you to join me for something really, 527 00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:16.119 really special. I'm partnering with Pfizer and the American Cancer 528 00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:20.200 Society for a new kind of series, one where people 529 00:32:20.200 --> 00:32:23.960 who have lived with cancer share their favorite family recipes 530 00:32:24.359 --> 00:32:26.559 and the powerful stories behind them. 531 00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:29.839 Tea is shared with me how tough conversations are what 532 00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:32.599 she believes can transform families for good. 533 00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:35.799 And it is one of the most simple things we 534 00:32:35.880 --> 00:32:39.960 can do, hard but simple, which is to talk about it. 535 00:32:40.279 --> 00:32:43.400 And that's what we're going to do today. So cancer. 536 00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:48.079 Unfortunately, when we're talking about the odds, it's not necessarily 537 00:32:48.119 --> 00:32:52.839 the same for everyone black within the Black community or 538 00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:57.799 just Black communities in general. We tend to get a 539 00:32:57.920 --> 00:33:03.000 diagnosis in our later stages, and that's with any and 540 00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:08.160 all types of cancer, which is unfortunate because that can 541 00:33:08.519 --> 00:33:16.920 impact you know, a patient or one's outcome. Unfortunately, the 542 00:33:17.079 --> 00:33:20.279 leading cause of death for black women in the US's 543 00:33:20.279 --> 00:33:22.839 breast cancer, the leading cause of death for Black males 544 00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:27.440 in the US's prostate cancer. Now you said this earlier, 545 00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:31.039 something that we don't necessarily talk about or want to 546 00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:34.640 talk about is of course the big seed, but also 547 00:33:34.759 --> 00:33:39.480 more importantly family history. Family history is one in several 548 00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:43.599 factors that can influence one's risk of a cancer diagnosis. 549 00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:48.359 So it is very imperative and important for us to 550 00:33:48.759 --> 00:33:54.880 understand our family's history and our family's connection to the disease. 551 00:33:55.359 --> 00:33:58.759 And once you have that information, share it with your 552 00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:04.319 doctor and get the proper screenings that you need. Unfortunately, 553 00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:09.320 one in five Black adults in the US know their 554 00:34:09.320 --> 00:34:12.320 family history very well, which is a very very low number, 555 00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:15.840 which is why we believe that there tends to be 556 00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:18.719 this gap or a delay. 557 00:34:18.480 --> 00:34:22.559 When it comes to cancer screenings. So you asked why 558 00:34:23.079 --> 00:34:23.280 you know. 559 00:34:23.360 --> 00:34:26.559 Of course, am I passionate about this campaign or part 560 00:34:26.599 --> 00:34:30.400 of this campaign is because unfortunately, cancer has been a 561 00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:36.039 part of my family. I have lost two uncles to cancer, 562 00:34:36.519 --> 00:34:38.960 I have lost my grandmother to cancer, and I just 563 00:34:39.039 --> 00:34:41.599 recently lost an untie to cancer about a year and. 564 00:34:41.559 --> 00:34:42.159 A half ago. 565 00:34:43.559 --> 00:34:46.719 Knowing this, I said, okay, you know what I need 566 00:34:46.760 --> 00:34:50.880 to dig deeper and to dive in. I started doing 567 00:34:50.920 --> 00:34:54.360 this in my mid twenties. Even

now, I am constantly 568 00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:58.119 doing research. I am seeing genetic. 569 00:34:57.880 --> 00:35:01.039 Doctors, et ce. I say that all. 570 00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:05.119 To say, now knowing my family history, now knowing my 571 00:35:05.320 --> 00:35:09.079 health background, I now know my potential risks. Therefore I 572 00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:12.719 am getting all of the proper support and proper screenings 573 00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:16.320 that I need to do. I was also able to 574 00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:19.480 gather this information, share it with my sister, share it 575 00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:23.199 with my brother. So now we as a family, we 576 00:35:23.719 --> 00:35:29.079 are informed. And I personally feel and I know this 577 00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:37.960 may sound cliche, but education is power. So this campaign, 578 00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:42.079 this series that I'm hosting, rewrite the recipe. It's very 579 00:35:42.159 --> 00:35:46.920 personal for me and I am just wanting to encourage 580 00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:52.480 everyone to again gather around the dinner table and have 581 00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:59.760 these difficult but very impactful conversations dinner table. The reason 582 00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:02.719 why I say dinner table is because within our community, 583 00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:05.440 in the black communities, where there. 584 00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:10.000 Is food and there is family. Okay, where there is 585 00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:12.239 food is badly colla. 586 00:36:12.039 --> 00:36:17.519 Greens, you know, all the traditional dishes that you know 587 00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:20.039 have been asked down from generation to generation. 588 00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:21.960 There's family. 589 00:36:22.360 --> 00:36:26.800 And for me, growing up, my family, we would gather 590 00:36:26.920 --> 00:36:29.360 around the table to have hard conversations. 591 00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:33.519 So when I was a kid, it was very. 592 00:36:33.400 --> 00:36:35.599 Important for us to have dinner at the dinner table, 593 00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:36.360 the whole family. 594 00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:39.000 It was like nobody was missing. 595 00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:43.159 Everybody was right there and my mom and my dad, 596 00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:46.000 they would start asking us hard questions. 597 00:36:46.039 --> 00:36:50.239 You know, how is your day? That's not necessarily hard, 598 00:36:50.280 --> 00:36:52.320 but how are you feeling today? 599 00:36:52.519 --> 00:36:53.119 You know what I mean. 600 00:36:53.199 --> 00:36:55.280 But as a child, sometimes when you hear how are 601 00:36:55.320 --> 00:36:55.880 you feeling? 602 00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:58.840 That could be a little overwhelming, you know, But it 603 00:36:58.960 --> 00:37:02.559 was there where it was there, meaning at the dinner table, 604 00:37:03.039 --> 00:37:06.440 where and when I would share Mom, I was bullied today, 605 00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:10.119 somebody was a nice to me, you know. So anyway, 606 00:37:11.119 --> 00:37:14.320 knowing that where there is food, there's family, knowing that 607 00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:17.239 I personally grew up having these hard conversations around the 608 00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:19.880 dinner table with my family. I wanted to do the 609 00:37:19.880 --> 00:37:24.599 same and encourage others to do the same. And you know, 610 00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:29.599 these are some crazy statistics, but what's not crazy is 611 00:37:31.079 --> 00:37:34.440 just having the conversation and talking about it. 612 00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:36.719 Is simple, but it's one. 613 00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:39.320 Way that we can close that gap, narrow that gap, 614 00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:42.360 and start changing the odds when it comes to how 615 00:37:42.440 --> 00:37:45.039 cancer has impacted our Black communities. 616 00:37:45.079 --> 00:37:49.880 So I understand that you had your own cancer scare. 617 00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:56.960 I did abnormal mammogram and you know, watching the episode, 618 00:37:57.199 --> 00:38:00.199 you could see that you were distressed. Where did your 619 00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:03.519 family when you shared it with your family? What was 620 00:38:03.559 --> 00:38:07.719 going on? Were they like, Okay, just you're going to drama, relax? 621 00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:12.280 Did they get in? Did everybody feel you did? 622 00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:15.599 Of course everybody felt the same way I did, because 623 00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:20.840 we all know our family history. So when you know 624 00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:27.360 your family history and you get that or the news 625 00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:33.760 about an abnormality in your breast, it's scary and it's 626 00:38:33.880 --> 00:38:39.039 very overwhelming. But I will say that, you know, the 627 00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:43.719 coolest thing is knowing that you have that support, right. 628 00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:46.239 I think sometimes people don't necessarily want to talk about 629 00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:53.760 cancer is because they're scared, they're overwhelmed, or they might 630 00:38:53.800 --> 00:38:56.039 fill alone one thing that I did not. 631 00:38:56.719 --> 00:38:58.679 I mean in the beginning, yes I did fill. 632 00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:02.480 Alone, but knowing that I had that support from my friends, 633 00:39:02.559 --> 00:39:06.840 from my family, it gave me the courage to move 634 00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:07.360 through it. 635 00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:11.280 And although our conversation about a heavy topic seemed to 636 00:39:11.320 --> 00:39:14.320 stay in a light note, it emotionally took a turn. 637 00:39:14.440 --> 00:39:16.519 These stories are so. 638 00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:31.920 Empowering, courageous, impactful, and I'm just so proud of these 639 00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:37.480 individuals because again, it's not easy to share your story, 640 00:39:38.920 --> 00:39:42.559

but the way that they have with strength. 641 00:39:45.400 --> 00:39:48.400 Hope is so admirable. 642 00:39:48.760 --> 00:39:52.079 To hear more about Tea's emotional journey and her advice 643 00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:57.280 for others dealing with similar circumstances of grief around the holidays, 644 00:39:57.679 --> 00:39:59.960 head over to the Color between the Lines YouTube chair 645 00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:03.880 or the Color Between the Lines podcasts on iHeartRadio or 646 00:40:03.880 --> 00:40:05.559 wherever you get your podcasts. 647 00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:11.840 I'm Ester Dinnard, Thank you, Esther and Tia Maury. One 648 00:40:11.880 --> 00:40:14.559 of the toughest things to do in a big urban 649 00:40:14.599 --> 00:40:18.039 city is to meet people with similar interests and build 650 00:40:18.039 --> 00:40:21.519 relationships with those people in a safe environment. Fortunately, we 651 00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:24.320 now have an app for that, and this app is 652 00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:29.079 designed specifically for the black community. Alexandria Icimoni spoke with 653 00:40:29.199 --> 00:40:32.400 Ray Abram, founder and CEO of the Great Night, aapp, 654 00:40:32.719 --> 00:40:35.960 a new social media platform that just launched in Atlanta 655 00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:37.880 with plans to go nationwide soon. 656 00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:41.400 This is Alexandria Icimoni with the Black Information Network, and 657 00:40:41.440 --> 00:40:44.039 I have the pleasure of speaking with Ray Abram, who 658 00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:47.079 is the founder and CEO of Great Night. 659 00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:48.039 How are you today? 660 00:40:48.320 --> 00:40:51.280 I'm doing great, Alexandra. Thank you so much for this. 661 00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:53.480 Opportunity, absolutely, and I feel it. 662 00:40:53.559 --> 00:40:56.679 Great is the word of the day for sure. 663 00:40:56.960 --> 00:40:59.719 Great Night app it's here in Atlanta, It's in the 664 00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:02.320 app store and for people to be able to go 665 00:41:02.360 --> 00:41:04.760 and find a download that does great things to really, 666 00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:07.760 I guess connect people, That's all I'll say. So I 667 00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:10.159 want you to tell me, from your words and your perspective, 668 00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:13.519 what exactly is Great Night and how beneficial will it 669 00:41:13.559 --> 00:41:14.599 be to people here. 670 00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:15.280 Yeah. 671 00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:17.519 So one of the things I always try to get 672 00:41:17.559 --> 00:41:21.800 across is that Great Night is really a social network first. 673 00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:25.960 Unlike many other event apps we get compared to quite 674 00:41:25.960 --> 00:41:30.360 a bit. We're not about selling tickets. We're about helping 675 00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:33.519 people meet folks who like to do the same things 676 00:41:33.639 --> 00:41:37.280 they like to do. But the events are part of 677 00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:40.480 what brings you to the app. So we like to 678 00:41:40.519 --> 00:41:42.920 say you come for the events, but you stay for 679 00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:43.639 the community. 680 00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:47.000 Absolutely, and you're talking about the community, I will like 681 00:41:47.039 --> 00:41:50.639 to preface that you are the founder, I should say 682 00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:53.559 is a black man. This is great for Atlanta, which 683 00:41:53.639 --> 00:41:57.079 has a great large black community here. So talk to 684 00:41:57.079 --> 00:42:00.000 you more about how important it is for black people 685 00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:03.719 to find community and find a safe space in order 686 00:42:03.760 --> 00:42:05.639 to connect and get to meet new people. 687 00:42:06.039 --> 00:42:07.679 Yeah, it's so important. 688 00:42:08.199 --> 00:42:12.199 One of the challenges, particularly in our community is loneliness. 689 00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:15.679 You know, we're starting to see you, particularly young people. 690 00:42:15.719 --> 00:42:20.159 Loneliness used to be an elderly or an older person's issue, 691 00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:23.480 where you know, the friends have passed on and so forth, 692 00:42:24.559 --> 00:42:27.159 and now we're seeing even with our twenty year olds 693 00:42:27.199 --> 00:42:31.360 and people in their twenties early thirties are suffering from 694 00:42:31.480 --> 00:42:33.000 chronic loneliness. 695 00:42:33.159 --> 00:42:35.360 And you probably have seen. 696 00:42:35.119 --> 00:42:39.000 The reports from the surge in general that being chronically 697 00:42:39.079 --> 00:42:43.960 lonely is as dangerous for your health as smoking up 698 00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:45.199 to fifteen cigarettes a day. 699 00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:47.639 It actually shortens your life. 700 00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:50.800 Let's talk about the actual app itself. It's pretty cool, right. 701 00:42:50.840 --> 00:42:54.159 It has different events that you that you can go 702 00:42:54.360 --> 00:42:57.599 to bas off like interests and locations and then you 703 00:42:57.679 --> 00:43:00.840 earn points. So tell me more about the actual app 704 00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:04.719 itself and what people can experience when they're using it. 705 00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:07.599 So we have you know, we have a bot that 706 00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:11.639 goes out every night and finds things that are everything 707 00:43:11.679 --> 00:43:13.119 that's going on in the city. 708 00:43:13.199 --> 00:43:16.639 And then we partner with curators, folks who help. 709 00:43:17.239 --> 00:43:20.400 Us fill in those little, you know, spots that you 710 00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:25.440 don't hear about. We don't focus on the big things 711 00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:29.440 right that everybody is on the radio and in the papers. 712 00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:32.880 We focus on the small events where people you can 713 00:43:32.920 -->

00:43:35.760 actually sit and get to meet people and get to 714 00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:38.960 know them is where we focus on. So we have 715 00:43:39.519 --> 00:43:44.559 not just the event feed, but we also have communities 716 00:43:44.840 --> 00:43:47.920 where you know, folks who are you know, promoters. It's 717 00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:51.360 a place you can build a community around the things 718 00:43:51.480 --> 00:43:53.440 that you like to do. For instance, we have a 719 00:43:53.480 --> 00:43:56.760 community for you know, creators, and we have a community 720 00:43:56.800 --> 00:44:00.480 for people who are into edim music or house or 721 00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:03.239 you know, if you live in a certain neighborhood and 722 00:44:03.280 --> 00:44:06.719 so you know, anybody you know can you can create 723 00:44:06.760 --> 00:44:10.480 their own community almost like Facebook pages. But you know, 724 00:44:10.639 --> 00:44:15.719 really for folks who live in in your area that 725 00:44:15.800 --> 00:44:19.000 you can actually meet in real life. But the key 726 00:44:19.119 --> 00:44:21.679 I think that people really like about our app is that, 727 00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:24.320 you know, by doing things on the app, whenever you 728 00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:27.440 go to an event or you meet somebody at an event, 729 00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:32.000 you get points, and then we have partners like Uber 730 00:44:32.239 --> 00:44:36.559 and you know, parking lots and food restaurants where you 731 00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:38.119 can go and use those. 732 00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:42.000 Points for free stuff. So those are kind of. 733 00:44:41.920 --> 00:44:45.119 The big things, you know, finding the events, meeting people, 734 00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:50.400 joining communities, and earning rewards as you built your social life. 735 00:44:50.559 --> 00:44:53.320 Pretty cool to Bilda's social life here in Atlanta. I 736 00:44:53.360 --> 00:44:56.599 do have a question, though, what is your favorite feature 737 00:44:56.760 --> 00:44:58.000 or favorite part. 738 00:44:58.239 --> 00:45:00.199 Of the app for you specific Thick. 739 00:45:01.159 --> 00:45:04.559 Yeah, for me, it's the event chat So every event 740 00:45:04.719 --> 00:45:08.239 has its own chat room, so you can find out 741 00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:11.280 who is you know at the event already and then 742 00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:14.639 jump into the chat room and start talking to people 743 00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:16.840 and finding out you know, how is it, you know, 744 00:45:17.320 --> 00:45:18.280 where did you part? 745 00:45:18.440 --> 00:45:20.559 You know what time are y'all? You know, getting there, 746 00:45:20.639 --> 00:45:21.320 that type of thing. 747 00:45:22.119 --> 00:45:24.880 Because one of the things is always frustrating for me 748 00:45:25.639 --> 00:45:29.119 when I'm thinking about going out is I don't know, 749 00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:31.559 is this going to be good? I don't

know, you know, 750 00:45:31.719 --> 00:45:35.440 is anybody there? And so having that kind of a window, 751 00:45:35.599 --> 00:45:40.119 that visibility into an event before you get there, for 752 00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:42.280 me is a is really helpful and part of my 753 00:45:42.360 --> 00:45:47.239 favorite part. And then additionally, I'm kind of introverted myself. 754 00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:49.159 People don't believe it. 755 00:45:48.760 --> 00:45:51.000 But I tend to when I you know, go by 756 00:45:51.039 --> 00:45:54.199 myself and you know, so I'm just at the spot 757 00:45:54.320 --> 00:45:57.519 and people around having a good time. I don't know anybody, 758 00:45:57.559 --> 00:45:59.920 and sometimes I feel uncomfortable. 759 00:45:59.480 --> 00:46:01.360 Just walk up the folks and talking. 760 00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:04.360 But what the app allows you to do is see 761 00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:07.239 all the conversations that are going on in the chat 762 00:46:07.320 --> 00:46:10.519 room and actually you kind of uh, you know, it's 763 00:46:10.519 --> 00:46:14.280 like an onboarding from the screen to real life. And 764 00:46:14.360 --> 00:46:19.360 so that has been for me. That's my personal favorite feature, 765 00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:23.320 being able to uh, you know, kind of meet people. 766 00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:27.960 Online and then transition to real world. And you know, 767 00:46:28.039 --> 00:46:28.960 for people who. 768 00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:32.039 Are concerned about giving out their phone numbers to everybody, 769 00:46:32.440 --> 00:46:33.840 it also doesn't require that. 770 00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:38.679 So now you can just you meet people just with with. 771 00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:43.079 Their app username and and build those relationships while you're 772 00:46:43.119 --> 00:46:48.320 at the spot and continue that conversation afterward without having 773 00:46:48.360 --> 00:46:50.079 to exchange phone numbers. 774 00:46:50.679 --> 00:46:53.760 Very very very cool at chat feature sounds amazing. I 775 00:46:53.800 --> 00:46:55.760 do love that you can get a vibe check and 776 00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:58.880 understand parking and talk to people. I think it's very 777 00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:01.400 great to really connect act even before you meet in 778 00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:06.119 person or even after the facts. So that's fantastic. Any 779 00:47:06.199 --> 00:47:08.920 last details you would like to leave with? Who's listening 780 00:47:08.960 --> 00:47:10.320 about the app that I didn't cover? 781 00:47:11.480 --> 00:47:11.760 Yeah? 782 00:47:11.840 --> 00:47:14.239 So again, you can download it today. It's in both 783 00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:18.480 apps stores, so Apple or Android. We also have a 784 00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:21.760 web version so you can go to a Great Night 785 00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:24.400 dot us and you. 786 00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:27.599 Know, and just get a preview. It's free to use. 787 00:47:27.719 --> 00:47:29.800 All of our services are free for users. 788 00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:32.360 And if you have a small business and a lot 789 00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:36.360 of your listeners or business owners, you know, what we. 790 00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:40.559 Do is have advertising for local businesses. 791 00:47:40.599 --> 00:47:45.000 So any business that particularly needs to drive foot traffic 792 00:47:45.159 --> 00:47:48.039 like a restaurant or if you own a gym, or 793 00:47:48.039 --> 00:47:51.599 you have a class of some type you need people 794 00:47:51.639 --> 00:47:55.880 to come to your space. We have very affordable advertising 795 00:47:55.960 --> 00:48:00.000 rates that will reach people who live in your market 796 00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:02.320 it and we can target it down to you know, 797 00:48:02.360 --> 00:48:07.840 a certain neighborhood to show that add to them and 798 00:48:07.599 --> 00:48:10.119 and and help you get foot traffic. 799 00:48:09.800 --> 00:48:10.599 Into your door. 800 00:48:10.760 --> 00:48:13.519 So that's really our you know, that's how we make money. 801 00:48:13.679 --> 00:48:16.480 And how we support our community. 802 00:48:17.039 --> 00:48:20.119 I love that now we know that it's here in Atlanta. 803 00:48:20.239 --> 00:48:22.679 What about other cities, other markets. 804 00:48:23.119 --> 00:48:25.679 Yeah, we're planning that that'll be like you two of 805 00:48:26.159 --> 00:48:29.639 next year, we're starting to look at some other markets, 806 00:48:30.039 --> 00:48:32.440 but right now we're in Atlanta and we want to 807 00:48:32.519 --> 00:48:33.239 just nail it. 808 00:48:33.320 --> 00:48:34.559 We want to get it right here. 809 00:48:34.679 --> 00:48:37.320 We believe that if we can be successful in Atlanta, 810 00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:39.159 we can be successful anywhere. 811 00:48:39.880 --> 00:48:43.440 Absolutely absolutely. Ray Aroun, thank you so much for your time. 812 00:48:43.480 --> 00:48:46.079 We appreciate you and the information you provided today on 813 00:48:46.159 --> 00:48:47.119 the Great Night app. 814 00:48:47.480 --> 00:48:50.199 Awesome, all right, thank you so much, Alexandra. 815 00:48:50.280 --> 00:48:53.480 I really appreciate you and this opportunity to speak to 816 00:48:53.480 --> 00:48:54.079 here listeners. 817 00:48:54.119 --> 00:48:57.559 Thanks Alexandria. The Great Night app is available now in 818 00:48:57.679 --> 00:49:01.880 your favorite app store. Be sure to unloaded today. Doug 819 00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:04.920 Davis is back with his conversation with the San Francisco 820 00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:08.039 black educator and author who spoke at this year's Anti 821 00:49:08.159 --> 00:49:09.039 Racism Summit. 822 00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:09.760 Doug. 823 00:49:09.920 --> 00:49:10.639 Hey, Thanks Mike. 824 00:49:10.760 --> 00:49:13.440 We are back with part two of our candid conversation 825 00:49:13.760 --> 00:49:17.360 about the global systems of

anti Blackness with Dante King, 826 00:49:17.599 --> 00:49:21.039 educator and author of the book Anti Blackness. Dante was 827 00:49:21.079 --> 00:49:23.760 one of a few keynote speakers at the Global Anti 828 00:49:23.880 --> 00:49:27.719 Racism Summit that just happened in South Africa. Dante, welcome 829 00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:29.920 back to the show. Now you're left off saying that 830 00:49:29.960 --> 00:49:35.440 white people in general have a sociopathic disorder towards Black Americans, 831 00:49:35.480 --> 00:49:38.679 and you explain that in your book Anti Blackness, and 832 00:49:38.719 --> 00:49:42.400 you also express that at the Anti Racism Global Summit. 833 00:49:42.519 --> 00:49:45.320 Let's bring back the point you made in our first 834 00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:48.000 interview in case some of our listeners didn't hear why 835 00:49:48.119 --> 00:49:51.840 you feel, in general, the white Americans have a sociopathic 836 00:49:51.880 --> 00:49:54.559 disorder towards black people, and then we'll get more into 837 00:49:54.599 --> 00:49:55.039 the summit. 838 00:49:55.800 --> 00:50:00.000 So we have to understand that the psychological context by 839 00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:03.679 which white people have been operating where black people are 840 00:50:03.719 --> 00:50:06.440 concerned and where non white people are concerned is one 841 00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:07.400 of inhumanity. 842 00:50:07.559 --> 00:50:09.519 They have been socialized to. 843 00:50:09.480 --> 00:50:12.679 Believe for hundreds of years that black and brown people 844 00:50:13.039 --> 00:50:16.639 lack humanity and that they don't deserve the same things 845 00:50:16.679 --> 00:50:20.400 that they deserve. Right and so doctor Bobby Wright, and 846 00:50:20.440 --> 00:50:23.119 one of the one of the philosophies that I use 847 00:50:23.199 --> 00:50:27.920 to ground my work is doctor Bobby Wright's The Psychopathic 848 00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:31.760 Racial Personality, where he talks about how you can literally 849 00:50:31.800 --> 00:50:34.920 see that whites are in the way that they function 850 00:50:35.320 --> 00:50:38.159 with in relationship to black people, that they are psychopathic. 851 00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:42.440 They have a psychopathic disposition that is akin to what 852 00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:48.000 would be clinically diagnosed as like an antisocial personality disorder. 853 00:50:49.119 --> 00:50:52.519 And so I think that within that context, we can 854 00:50:52.639 --> 00:50:57.000 understand that what we're seeing today in today's society extends 855 00:50:57.159 --> 00:51:00.320 from that psychological function. 856 00:51:00.920 --> 00:51:04.159 Okay, so Dante, let's go back to the summit where 857 00:51:04.159 --> 00:51:08.440 white and black leaders along with researchers and scholars were 858 00:51:08.480 --> 00:51:13.079 present from around the globe. Whether any breakthroughs or moments 859 00:51:13.079 --> 00:51:16.039 of tension at the summit as you dug into the 860 00:51:16.159 --> 00:51:18.000 roots of racial violence. 861 00:51:18.079 --> 00:51:21.079 Yeah, there are always moments of tension when I speak. 862 00:51:21.880 --> 00:51:24.639 I think the tensions for black and brown people is 863 00:51:24.679 --> 00:51:28.679 they almost immediately are able to see that, you know, 864 00:51:28.920 --> 00:51:31.559 all of the suffering that black and people have gone through, 865 00:51:32.159 --> 00:51:33.960 some of the many of the challenges, all of the 866 00:51:34.039 --> 00:51:37.119 challenges that we face today are the result of this 867 00:51:37.239 --> 00:51:39.960 training that white people have received, and so the conditions 868 00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:42.360 that we face. What I get from a lot of 869 00:51:42.360 --> 00:51:45.199 black and brown people is that they feel validated. 870 00:51:45.400 --> 00:51:46.760 They feel like, oh. 871 00:51:46.639 --> 00:51:49.119 My God, for the first time, I'm hearing and seeing 872 00:51:49.199 --> 00:51:52.239 things that explain what I'm going through, what my parents 873 00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:54.119 went through, what my grandparents went through. 874 00:51:54.159 --> 00:51:55.039 With white people. 875 00:51:55.320 --> 00:51:59.119 And I've developed recently a framework around this that is 876 00:51:59.159 --> 00:52:02.559 an extension of work that was done previously by doctor 877 00:52:02.599 --> 00:52:06.280 Francis Chris Welsing, doctor Bobby Wright, and doctor Amos Wilson. 878 00:52:06.360 --> 00:52:11.760 But it's called the Psychocognitive Defense Mechanisms of Whiteness. And 879 00:52:11.840 --> 00:52:14.400 there are four key pieces that I point out, and 880 00:52:14.440 --> 00:52:18.760 this typically happens during any training or workshops or talks 881 00:52:18.840 --> 00:52:21.119 that I give, and it happened during my talk in 882 00:52:21.159 --> 00:52:25.519 South Africa. And these four key areas are anytime you 883 00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:28.199 know white people are being confronted with their history, they're 884 00:52:28.239 --> 00:52:31.679 being confronted about their behavior or something racially biased or 885 00:52:31.800 --> 00:52:35.239 racist that they're doing or have done, they either respond 886 00:52:35.480 --> 00:52:42.000 with defensiveness, deflection, denial, or they dissociate, so the four 887 00:52:42.079 --> 00:52:48.679 d's and they detach. And one of the key pieces 888 00:52:48.840 --> 00:52:51.159 to my work that I point out is that as 889 00:52:51.159 --> 00:52:53.159 white people are being terrorized, because we also have to 890 00:52:53.239 --> 00:52:56.880 understand that in constructing and creating whiteness, if you go 891 00:52:57.039 --> 00:53:01.679 back to the seventeenth century, the English government is also 892 00:53:01.760 --> 00:53:05.280 targeting Europeans who associate with black people. They begin to 893 00:53:05.320 --> 00:53:09.599 criminalize marrying black

people, being friends with black people, running 894 00:53:09.639 --> 00:53:10.760 away with black people. 895 00:53:11.119 --> 00:53:12.920 And so you have a group. 896 00:53:12.679 --> 00:53:16.079 Of people who become a part of this conglomerate that's 897 00:53:16.159 --> 00:53:18.760 now being called white, which is a political function, a 898 00:53:18.760 --> 00:53:22.320 political organization, who are terrorized into. 899 00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:24.840 Total numbness. 900 00:53:25.039 --> 00:53:28.880 And this is pre pre colonial America. 901 00:53:29.239 --> 00:53:31.440 This is in the sixteen hundreds. 902 00:53:32.119 --> 00:53:34.239 In the sixteen hundred, So there's a law in sixteen 903 00:53:34.280 --> 00:53:38.239 sixty two where they criminalize Europeans for running away with 904 00:53:38.440 --> 00:53:39.159 black people. 905 00:53:40.079 --> 00:53:42.159 There are laws, there's a law. 906 00:53:42.039 --> 00:53:45.840 In sixteen ninety, for example, in South Carolina where they 907 00:53:46.079 --> 00:53:51.280 require all white people, all white citizens or you know, 908 00:53:51.360 --> 00:53:54.559 people in the colonies, to become a racial police force 909 00:53:54.599 --> 00:54:00.159 against black people. They each law is authorizing white men 910 00:54:00.239 --> 00:54:03.760 and white women to mistreat black people. It's not even 911 00:54:03.800 --> 00:54:07.960 just authorizing or giving you permission, it's basically requiring them 912 00:54:08.119 --> 00:54:12.840 to mistreat and target. And so these people are learning, 913 00:54:12.880 --> 00:54:16.760 but not just learning, they're developing into monsters where black 914 00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:19.960 people are concerned, and there's really no way out because 915 00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:25.000 when you embed such practices into the law, into the 916 00:54:25.079 --> 00:54:28.639 legal context, this is what shapes society. You know, I 917 00:54:28.800 --> 00:54:31.079 now have to if I see Doug on the street 918 00:54:31.559 --> 00:54:34.000 and there's a law that's been passed, it says I 919 00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:38.920 am now authorized, but I'm now required to apprehend him, 920 00:54:39.119 --> 00:54:41.199 to check and see if Doug should be in this 921 00:54:41.320 --> 00:54:42.719 place at any given time. 922 00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:45.320 I now have to ask Doug for his papers. This 923 00:54:45.480 --> 00:54:46.400 is shaping in the. 924 00:54:46.360 --> 00:54:50.039 White mind not only that I'm superior and that these 925 00:54:50.079 --> 00:54:53.239 people are of a lower value and lesser class, but 926 00:54:53.320 --> 00:54:57.719 I have the right, I have total agency and over 927 00:54:57.760 --> 00:55:01.440 this person, over these people. And so we have to 928 00:55:01.440 --> 00:55:06.199 contend with what are the psychological results all of these 929 00:55:06.280 --> 00:55:10.559 hundreds of years later, and as these traditions and these 930 00:55:10.599 --> 00:55:14.400 psychological practices and functions have been passed down generation by 931 00:55:14.440 --> 00:55:16.519 generation by generation, what a results? 932 00:55:16.800 --> 00:55:21.159 What roles do you see for some legal reform and 933 00:55:21.239 --> 00:55:25.719 reparations in global anti racism efforts? Do you see anything 934 00:55:25.800 --> 00:55:27.119 ever really come in to fruition. 935 00:55:27.840 --> 00:55:33.280 I don't see much of anything coming into fruition because 936 00:55:33.320 --> 00:55:36.400 we have to understand the objective of white capitalism. The 937 00:55:36.480 --> 00:55:40.639 objective of white capitalism is to ensure that the people 938 00:55:40.679 --> 00:55:43.719 that have access to it can control the resources, can 939 00:55:43.760 --> 00:55:47.320 control their positions and everyone else's positions in the world. 940 00:55:47.320 --> 00:55:48.199 It's about power. 941 00:55:49.360 --> 00:55:52.480 And so when you exploit people for hundreds of years, 942 00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:54.840 and you do it intentionally because you want to build 943 00:55:55.280 --> 00:55:59.159 that power for yourself and create, for example, wealth for yourself, 944 00:55:59.559 --> 00:56:00.679 you don't go go back. 945 00:56:00.480 --> 00:56:02.519 And say, oh, you know, we made a mistake. No, 946 00:56:02.639 --> 00:56:03.639 this was intentional. 947 00:56:04.159 --> 00:56:08.199 And so the desires of white people are not to 948 00:56:08.920 --> 00:56:10.039 make amends for. 949 00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:12.079 What they did. They don't feel as though. 950 00:56:11.920 --> 00:56:15.039 They've done anything wrong, which is why they can offer 951 00:56:15.280 --> 00:56:20.079 a political apology but not do anything meaningful or tangible 952 00:56:20.400 --> 00:56:23.440 or tangibly in order to correct the situation. The other 953 00:56:23.440 --> 00:56:25.320 piece of that, I want to be very clear about 954 00:56:25.599 --> 00:56:29.880 if we are talking about reparations on a global scale, 955 00:56:29.960 --> 00:56:33.039 but even just for African Americans, we need to talk 956 00:56:33.039 --> 00:56:35.719 about there are three entities that should be responsible for 957 00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:40.480 paying black people reparations, and they are the American government, 958 00:56:40.559 --> 00:56:46.039 the US federal government, the English parliament, their government because 959 00:56:46.079 --> 00:56:49.920 they engineered this whole process, along with the Christian Church. 960 00:56:50.239 --> 00:56:52.840 The Christian Church needs to pay reparation. 961 00:56:53.679 --> 00:56:56.400 Powerful kind of wrapping things up, what kind of message 962 00:56:56.400 --> 00:56:59.880 from the summit do you think are most urgent for 963 00:57:00.199 --> 00:57:04.440 Black Americans and particular black youth to hear right now? 964 00:57:04.559 --> 00:57:06.800 Do you don't know anything about what

you're talking about 965 00:57:06.800 --> 00:57:10.880 that are probably being very enlightened by hearing your commentary. 966 00:57:11.119 --> 00:57:12.400 Well, and I say. 967 00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:15.280 This in my book, Diagnosing Whiteness and Anti Blackness, and 968 00:57:15.320 --> 00:57:17.559 I hope that people can go to my website, which 969 00:57:17.599 --> 00:57:20.320 is Dante King dot com and follow my work. 970 00:57:20.639 --> 00:57:22.239 So yeah, go to Dante King dot com. 971 00:57:22.360 --> 00:57:25.039 I think what is most urgent as for us as 972 00:57:25.039 --> 00:57:28.960 black people around the world, is that we understand these histories, 973 00:57:29.400 --> 00:57:32.159 and not just through a historical context or for the 974 00:57:32.239 --> 00:57:36.280 sake of learning history, but so that we can contextualize 975 00:57:36.320 --> 00:57:39.440 properly the current moment that we're in and the things 976 00:57:39.440 --> 00:57:42.559 that we're seeing and what we're experiencing. Because if you 977 00:57:42.599 --> 00:57:47.039 don't understand history, and you've been fed a story of oh, 978 00:57:47.159 --> 00:57:50.840 this country has been focused on progress and making progress 979 00:57:50.920 --> 00:57:54.239 and making things equal and better for everyone, like I was. 980 00:57:54.360 --> 00:57:56.639 That's what I learned when I was in elementary school 981 00:57:56.800 --> 00:57:59.719 in junior high school. If you learn those falsehoods, those 982 00:57:59.719 --> 00:58:03.000 false narratives, you will once you become an adult, a 983 00:58:03.039 --> 00:58:06.519 black adult, and particularly probably within your thirties or forties, 984 00:58:06.559 --> 00:58:08.760 you will begin to have a nervous breakdown because you 985 00:58:08.800 --> 00:58:10.679 won't understand what's happening to. 986 00:58:10.639 --> 00:58:13.159 You, even when you follow the rules and you've. 987 00:58:13.000 --> 00:58:14.840 Done everything that they say that once you do in 988 00:58:14.880 --> 00:58:19.639 this society to be an upstanding human being and citizen. 989 00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:20.679 For the Dante. 990 00:58:20.760 --> 00:58:23.079 Any final comments and how can people reach you? 991 00:58:23.159 --> 00:58:26.639 Please reach me at Dante King dot com. It's d 992 00:58:26.679 --> 00:58:28.920 A N T E ki ng Go to Dante King 993 00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:33.519 dot com. Please follow me on Instagram at Dante d 994 00:58:33.679 --> 00:58:36.719 King Official. I think I use that platform out of 995 00:58:36.800 --> 00:58:38.119 all the platforms the most. 996 00:58:38.440 --> 00:58:39.599 And please get the buck. 997 00:58:39.679 --> 00:58:43.559 You can go to Barnes and Noble online, Amazon online, 998 00:58:43.719 --> 00:58:48.000 any major global retailer online, go to Ingram spark diagnosing 999 00:58:48.039 --> 00:58:50.760 Whiteness and anti Blackness. And thank you again, brother Doug 1000 00:58:50.840 --> 00:58:55.039 for always being a leader and just a source of 1001 00:58:55.039 --> 00:58:58.159 inspiration and a supporter of the work for the Dante. 1002 00:58:58.239 --> 00:59:00.480 Thank you, but we appreciate you more. This is Doug 1003 00:59:00.519 --> 00:59:03.400 Davis from the Black Perspective of the Black Information Network. 1004 00:59:03.599 --> 00:59:07.000 Thank you Doug and Dante, and that's our program for 1005 00:59:07.079 --> 00:59:09.639 this week. For more on these stories, listen to the 1006 00:59:09.639 --> 00:59:13.280 Black Information Network on the free iHeartRadio app or log 1007 00:59:13.320 --> 00:59:16.599 onto Viinnews dot com for all of the latest news 1008 00:59:16.679 --> 00:59:19.840 impacting the black community. We would love to hear from you. 1009 00:59:19.960 --> 00:59:21.199 About the Black perspective. 1010 00:59:21.519 --> 00:59:25.280 Log onto VII's Talkback Live feature on the iHeartRadio app 1011 00:59:25.320 --> 00:59:28.000 to share your feedback. Also, be sure to follow us 1012 00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:31.119 on social media at Black Information Network and on X 1013 00:59:31.199 --> 00:59:33.000 and Blue Sky at black Info Net. 1014 00:59:33.320 --> 00:59:34.159 Make the Black. 1015 00:59:33.960 --> 00:59:38.239 Information Network first on your car radio or iHeartRadio app presets. 1016 00:59:38.440 --> 00:59:41.519 I'm Mike Island. Have a great Sunday and great start. 1017 00:59:41.239 --> 00:59:41.760 To the month. 1018 00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:44.079 We will see you next week right here on the 1019 00:59:44.119 --> 00:59:45.760 Black Information Network.