Full Transcript for Debanking 2.0: JP Morgan Declares War on Bitcoin | BitcoinCenter EP30

in controlling maybe the gold market and gold pricing. 54 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,180 Maybe the United States is running up gold pricing right now. 55 00:05:06,300 --> 00:05:07,240 You know, it's interesting. 56 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:09,300 And maybe none of that's happening. 57 00:05:09,980 --> 00:05:11,020 So I don't know. 58 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:12,360 I want to get into the topics with you. 59 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:13,800 This is Bitcoin Center. 60 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:14,980 Please hit like and subscribe. 61 00:05:14,980 --> 00:05:16,540 This is brought to you by Byte Federal. 62 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:17,580 Go bank yourself. 63 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:22,000 They got the point of sale, the crypto wallet and the Bitcoin ATM, of course, and buy it. 64 00:05:22,020 --> 00:05:23,240 put it in self-custody. 65 00:05:23,820 --> 00:05:25,240 Francis, let's get into the show. 66 00:05:36,380 --> 00:05:37,780 Let's be real, right? 67 00:05:38,020 --> 00:05:40,680 Praising Telegram for launching a Bitcoin wallet. 68 00:05:41,380 --> 00:05:43,720 I've always felt like with Haley. 69 00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:49,040 Bitcoin, this digital currency that's out there that people say, oh, it might be the next 70 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:49,580 big thing. 71 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:50,460 What do you think? 72 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:51,960 I think it's a wrap point. 73 00:05:52,020 --> 00:05:58,020 Bitcoin. You never heard of them a few weeks ago? Now everybody's talking about them. But is it a currency? 74 00:05:58,020 --> 00:06:03,020 I don't know. Or is it more like a stock? Or is it a tulip bowl? Or is it just stupid? 75 00:06:03,020 --> 00:06:07,020 To me it smells like Ponzi scheme and the greater pool theory right here. 76 00:06:07,020 --> 00:06:09,020 You do like five minutes of freaking research. 77 00:06:09,020 --> 00:06:11,020 Well, thanks for coming to my set talk. 78 00:06:11,020 --> 00:06:12,020 Yes. 79 00:06:12,020 --> 00:06:14,020 Don't buy shit coins. 80 00:06:14,020 --> 00:06:18,020 Oh man, I didn't get that wrong. Alright. Bitcoin's recent rally. 81 00:06:18,020 --> 00:06:21,020 Do you agree? Is crypto finally dead? Go to the next one. 82 00:06:21,020 --> 00:06:23,120 Matter of fact, they're kind of in the Ethernet. 83 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:24,040 What are they? 84 00:06:24,060 --> 00:06:26,060 Some rumors that it's a Japanese guy, 85 00:06:26,140 --> 00:06:27,820 but they know that he's a fake name. 86 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:28,660 It was a pseudonym. 87 00:06:28,900 --> 00:06:31,240 You're literally putting real money onto a system 88 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,060 that we don't even know who created it. 89 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:34,160 It will come to a bad ending. 90 00:06:34,540 --> 00:06:36,820 Is this the most exciting bull run ever? 91 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:38,200 Not for me. 92 00:06:38,500 --> 00:06:39,520 No, it's not. 93 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:55,180 Welcome to Bitcoin Center, the fast-paced show where the debate is the story. 94 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,740 All right, Ben, we'll do it a little differently this way tonight. 95 00:07:00,900 --> 00:07:04,460 I'll ask you, instead of all the topics, we'll kick it off and see what you're thinking. 96 00:07:05,020 --> 00:07:10,600 So the latest, Jack Moller came out and said he was debanked by JP Morgan in September. 97 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,660 His father was, he said, also debanked, who has a long history of not just banking with 98 00:07:14,660 --> 00:07:18,120 them, but in the commodities exchange market in Chicago. 99 00:07:18,660 --> 00:07:20,400 And then Grant Cardone jumped in the mix. 100 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:27,040 And then part of this is they seem to be mad over maybe JP Morgan shorting or influencing 101 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,380 the strategy's price, share price. 102 00:07:30,460 --> 00:07:31,680 So what do you make of this? 103 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:43,480 I think that we got a little bit complacent as Bitcoiners and thought that we won when Trump won and enacted the Bitcoin reserve with no teeth. 104 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:57,980 And this is a reminder that there's still a long way to go before Bitcoiners and Bitcoin companies start getting treated with the rule of law that they deserve to be treated. 105 00:07:57,980 --> 00:08:04,440 My cousin on a family trip about a month ago, I finally got him into Bitcoin about a year ago. 106 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:11,740 And he was laughing at the Chokepoint 2.0 comments because he's still dealing with Chokepoint 1.0 in the marijuana industry. 107 00:08:12,620 --> 00:08:18,360 And it's just kind of this continued thing that's going to keep getting swept under the rug and they're going to keep attacking. 108 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:23,100 Banks are going to keep attacking their competitors. 109 00:08:23,100 --> 00:08:25,260 and strike is 110 00:08:25,260 --> 00:08:27,220 I mean Jack Maulers today 111 00:08:27,220 --> 00:08:28,820 or yesterday was saying like 112 00:08:28,820 --> 00:08:31,240 we're basically building a bank but we're not allowed to say 113 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:32,960 we're a bank and so these 114 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,160 big institutions see the writing on the wall 115 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,220 and Bitcoiners are not the ally yet 116 00:08:37,220 --> 00:08:39,000 do you think 117 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,160 JP Morgan's like hey look at strategy 118 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:42,960 they're trying to offer 8, 10, 12% 119 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:45,100 we're out here offering 120 00:08:45,100 --> 00:08:47,120 2 to 4% and we just don't want 121 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:48,000 that to be successful 122 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,280 yeah I mean strike's offering 123 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,720 looking to offer the same thing on 124 00:08:53,100 --> 00:09:00,140 on dollars and until banks really get their world together in bitcoin and even then they're probably 125 00:09:00,700 --> 00:09:05,820 not as competitive as people that are

already in the bitcoin sphere it's yeah it's a super 126 00:09:05,820 --> 00:09:15,500 competitive uh market and the best rate wins assuming writ i mean risk adjusted rate wins so 127 00:09:15,500 --> 00:09:20,300 yeah they're gonna be attacked with this and it's definitely like hey they still have the power 128 00:09:20,300 --> 00:09:21,960 They're still the 800-pound gorilla. 129 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:23,380 They're still going to punch you down. 130 00:09:24,340 --> 00:09:28,160 And it's easy to get complacent with prices going up. 131 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,860 So it's interesting to see this happen during a 33% dip. 132 00:09:33,660 --> 00:09:34,140 Yeah. 133 00:09:34,340 --> 00:09:41,380 I also can't tell if this 33% dip is great for Wall Street because they're maybe taking all the leveraged coins off people's hands. 134 00:09:41,980 --> 00:09:43,380 Let's move to the next one here. 135 00:09:43,740 --> 00:09:46,760 The Bitcoin for America Act was introduced. 136 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:53,480 does congress's move to let taxpayers pay in bitcoin make sense how big of a deal is this 137 00:09:53,480 --> 00:10:02,300 i would say this is a moderate deal it's the first time i've heard of tax legislation 138 00:10:02,300 --> 00:10:09,160 around bitcoin outside of just not taxing it not taxing sales not taxing using it as money it's 139 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:14,020 the first time that i've heard of an incentive structure that is a win for both sides congress 140 00:10:14,020 --> 00:10:21,080 gets to stack Bitcoin, they get a reason to put Bitcoin in the reserve. Is that in the bill? I 141 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:27,440 got to ask you that. But also Bitcoiners get a real reason to actually pay their taxes in Bitcoin 142 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:34,540 because in Colorado, you've been allowed to pay taxes in Bitcoin for at least three years. And I 143 00:10:34,540 --> 00:10:38,1000 don't know anyone who would ever do that because you pay the capital gains tax and you're giving 144 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:44,760 Bitcoin to the government. So this is the first time I've actually heard of a reason that Bitcoiners 145 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:51,860 would pay their taxes in Bitcoin. Your company is Bitcoin preferred, correct? Yes, sir. And do you 146 00:10:51,860 --> 00:10:57,620 have, how have you managed it up until now? I mean, you don't have to tell us, you know, at a very high 147 00:10:57,620 --> 00:11:04,480 level. Do you have concerns around receiving sats and then either paying either your cost of goods, 148 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,840 your expenses, or even just other things and buying things with sats? Do you just maybe do 149 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:14,160 it one way and just receive and never spend those uh is there an evolution here like how do you 150 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:21,400 think through that for the business everything goes through um through kyc rails um in the same 151 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:27,040 place that i would sell and buy bitcoin so everything is tracked in that way and i just 152 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:31,1000 get a sheet at the end of the year do you pay capital gains or lost uh sort of do you deal with 153 00:11:31,1000 --> 00:11:36,980 sort of gains and losses realized or unrealized and sort of track all that is or is that you try 154 00:11:36,980 --> 00:11:43,240 to just not do car mentalize those stats and maybe not track that you know well i'm always trying to 155 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:48,380 stack as many stats as possible so selling is definitely something i try not to do and i 156 00:11:48,380 --> 00:11:53,880 avoided for the first four or five years i was in bitcoin um i was doing that by taking on 157 00:11:53,880 --> 00:12:01,240 just non-collateralized fiat loans to run the business and the goal for out of debt become free 158 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,540 and do that with as much Bitcoin as possible. 159 00:12:04,540 --> 00:12:10,440 But we didn't reach a price that I really wanted to get, 160 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:12,500 like rip the full Band-Aid off. 161 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,560 So I sold a little Bitcoin to buy some infrastructure this year. 162 00:12:17,060 --> 00:12:22,560 And that is all just in, it's all kept into that same system. 163 00:12:22,700 --> 00:12:24,140 I get a tax report at the end of the year. 164 00:12:24,300 --> 00:12:28,500 I have my Satoshi Patroli tax guys working me through that. 165 00:12:28,500 --> 00:12:37,700 and um i did at 86 i said a what is it called a tax loss harvest so 166 00:12:37,700 --> 00:12:43,900 hopefully that'll save me some tax money this year so the dip the dip came good if you bought 167 00:12:43,900 --> 00:12:48,740 the top and and uh weren't going to sell anyway you know you'd love to have more sats but here we 168 00:12:48,740 --> 00:12:53,700 are yeah well thank you for sharing that let's move on to the next one uh you know there's the 169 00:12:53,700 --> 00:12:55,160 big censorship debate. 170 00:12:55,740 --> 00:12:58,160 So rolling out BIP444, 171 00:12:58,740 --> 00:13:00,580 which would temporarily ban 172 00:13:00,580 --> 00:13:01,960 large op return data 173 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:03,180 and even disable 174 00:13:03,180 --> 00:13:04,180 ordinal inscriptions. 175 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:06,420 Is this an emergency fix 176 00:13:06,420 --> 00:13:07,320 against legal data, 177 00:13:07,460 --> 00:13:08,020 fear-mongering, 178 00:13:08,140 --> 00:13:09,300 or a dangerous precedent 179 00:13:09,300 --> 00:13:10,540 of censorship on Bitcoin? 180 00:13:12,940 --> 00:13:15,380 I lean towards the dangerous precedent 181 00:13:15,380 --> 00:13:16,420 of censorship. 182 00:13:17,620 --> 00:13:19,140 If Bitcoin's free to money, 183 00:13:19,420 --> 00:13:20,480 you're going to get some people 184 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:21,580 doing things that you don't 185 00:13:21,580 --> 00:13:22,400 like to do with it. 186 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:30,500 and i once you start censoring and and i've saw an

argument that once you show you can censor then 187 00:13:30,500 --> 00:13:35,040 you're going to be required to censor um and that's more from the mining perspective from 188 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:42,280 large miners but one of the things that argument and you know it just at a very high level it seems 189 00:13:42,280 --> 00:14:01,376 very logical there sort of uh you know yeah i mean i don know if you compare it to uh you know your door and your lock on your front door is not going to prevent every single criminal from getting in potentially but it still worth using and to prevent the riffraff from getting in and the less enabled or you know abled criminals 190 00:14:01,616 --> 00:14:03,736 You know, why wouldn't you want to prevent 99.9 percent? 191 00:14:05,436 --> 00:14:07,296 Yeah, but that's my house. 192 00:14:10,316 --> 00:14:10,956 Go for it. 193 00:14:10,996 --> 00:14:11,256 Yeah. 194 00:14:12,336 --> 00:14:13,896 No, no, I didn't mean to cut you off. 195 00:14:13,976 --> 00:14:15,676 You're saying probably that's your house. 196 00:14:15,776 --> 00:14:16,396 And then this is. 197 00:14:16,396 --> 00:14:17,396 I mean, that's a. 198 00:14:17,596 --> 00:14:18,096 That's my house. 199 00:14:18,096 --> 00:14:26,376 that's my livelihood and bitcoin is a bit leans a bit more into the um the commons and in the 200 00:14:26,376 --> 00:14:32,176 commons you have to allow a little bit more um freedom and flexibility if it is going to be a 201 00:14:32,176 --> 00:14:39,536 global common good than um in your personal property um i understand the desire to run a 202 00:14:39,536 --> 00:14:47,156 um a node that doesn't display those transactions and that's totally anyone's prerogative but 203 00:14:47,156 --> 00:14:59,476 I'm not in the wanting to censor Bitcoin in any way camp. And I would, yeah, I've fallen onto that 204 00:14:59,476 --> 00:15:05,356 camp. Yeah. All right. What about sort of maybe, you know, meeting in the middle and not maybe 205 00:15:05,356 --> 00:15:10,876 blowing out the opportunity to 100,000, but like maybe just double or tripling or 10Xing it or, 206 00:15:11,016 --> 00:15:15,656 you know, sort of listening to the community? I don't know, actually. I mean, when you say it like 207 00:15:15,656 --> 00:15:20,156 that, you raised some good points. And I'm really trying to balance, you know, sort of like the idea 208 00:15:20,156 --> 00:15:25,536 of, you know, like, yeah, like you could have a pool and say there's no rules here. But if people 209 00:15:25,536 --> 00:15:31,496 start, you know, defecating in the pool, that's going to ruin the experience for everyone. And, 210 00:15:31,496 --> 00:15:35,616 you know, and maybe no one goes to the pool anymore. And that's sort of the public square 211 00:15:35,616 --> 00:15:41,896 or the commons. Like we need some sort of maybe decorum. And like, what I'm having trouble weighing 212 00:15:41,896 --> 00:15:48,316 is sort of policy rules versus, you know, consensus rules as well. 213 00:15:48,316 --> 00:15:54,376 Sure. And I'm a bit of a layman on the subject, but a turd in the punch bowl ruins it for everybody. 214 00:15:54,796 --> 00:16:03,816 But some bad transcription on the Bitcoin blockchain, most people, it sucks for anyone 215 00:16:03,816 --> 00:16:08,916 affected transcription, but it doesn't ruin the baseline protocol for everybody. 216 00:16:08,916 --> 00:16:19,956 also i heard i one more thing is i i heard that the um initial operaturn limit didn't exist 217 00:16:19,956 --> 00:16:26,436 initially the operaturn limit didn't exist and so it was a change to add an operaturn limit and um 218 00:16:27,316 --> 00:16:35,236 thus further change to decrease it but ultimately like i'm just for less changes on bitcoin and more 219 00:16:35,236 --> 00:16:40,356 freedom um and i guess this isn't necessarily a change on bitcoin and anyone could run their own 220 00:16:40,356 --> 00:16:48,276 node software so um well this is bit 444 so it's a little bit different i'm i'm not in favor of some 221 00:16:48,276 --> 00:16:54,436 contentious thing i think there's so much going on in bitcoin that yeah i agree that solidarity 222 00:16:55,716 --> 00:17:02,596 yeah um i just i i yeah all right let's move on to the next one uh commerce secretary's 25 223 00:17:02,596 --> 00:17:09,316 billion tether windfall as uh howard lupnick's once cheap five percent tether stake balloons 224 00:17:09,316 --> 00:17:15,476 towards 25 billion dollar paper valuation does the u.s commerce secretary now sit at the center of 225 00:17:15,476 --> 00:17:24,356 the most glaring conflict of interest in washington i would say that that's uh i mean that's a pretty 226 00:17:24,356 --> 00:17:35,536 United States focused interest is stable coins. So yeah, while it's a conflict of interest from 227 00:17:35,536 --> 00:17:41,756 the perspective of one specific company, the stable coins are such a powerhouse thing, 228 00:17:41,976 --> 00:17:47,336 positive thing for the United States government in increasing dollar hegemony and increasing tax 229 00:17:47,336 --> 00:17:52,496 receipts around the world. I don't know. I'm just, I'm so ambivalent at this point. It's like all 230 00:17:52,496 --> 00:18:00,576 these people just have such conflicts of interest they're so corrupt that it is what it is and uh 231 00:18:00,576 --> 00:18:06,596 let nick being in favor of that probably what are you going to do yeah all right let's move on to 232 00:18:06,596 --> 00:18:13,156 the next one here the eu's single crypto uh supervisor the european commission is reportedly 233 00:18:13,156 --> 00:18:19,556 planning an sec like agency for all crypto and stock exchanges does this pave the way for true 234 00:18:19,556 --> 00:18:23,836 capital markets union or risk smothering innovation in smaller EU states? 235 00:18:26,336 --> 00:18:32,496 Man, you got to think that this is going to mean more smothering, especially given the way the EU 236 00:18:32,496 --> 00:18:36,596 has

treated Bitcoin. They're not going to love this. Curious what you think on this one, Cedric. 237 00:18:37,556 --> 00:18:43,656 I think the EU is just massively behind. I don't think they want freedom for their people. 238 00:18:43,656 --> 00:18:49,496 I think they're reacting to the threat of both stablecoins and Bitcoin, 239 00:18:50,196 --> 00:18:52,156 and centralization is their answer. 240 00:18:52,816 --> 00:18:54,796 And I don't think it's going to go well, like you said. 241 00:18:54,856 --> 00:18:57,916 I think it's going to be corrupt and just sort of smother sort of innovation 242 00:18:57,916 --> 00:18:58,656 or anything good. 243 00:18:59,256 --> 00:19:01,296 But we'll keep an eye on them. 244 00:19:02,316 --> 00:19:04,556 We'll keep an eye on the EU over there across the pond. 245 00:19:04,956 --> 00:19:07,116 All right, let's head over to the lightning round. 246 00:19:07,896 --> 00:19:09,076 This is Bitcoin Center. 247 00:19:09,156 --> 00:19:10,216 Please hit like and subscribe. 248 00:19:10,216 --> 00:19:12,796 We got a special co-host here, Ben Justman. 249 00:19:12,796 --> 00:19:18,896 and uh ben tell us a little bit about your wine i love your wine i like the merlot i think the best 250 00:19:18,896 --> 00:19:24,856 and uh that was hard for me because i like the movie uh sideways and so i promised uh you know 251 00:19:24,856 --> 00:19:31,076 myself i'd never drink below but yours is actually pretty damn good so hey i appreciate that um i do 252 00:19:31,076 --> 00:19:35,636 get a lot of good feedback on my merlot it's just hard to get people to actually drink it because 253 00:19:35,636 --> 00:19:41,356 they've all seen the movie sideways and luckily my dad planted a pinot noir vineyard right around 254 00:19:41,356 --> 00:19:46,396 the time that movie came out. So we benefited massively from that. But yeah, I make low 255 00:19:46,396 --> 00:19:51,656 intervention wine up in the mountains of Colorado in the highest elevation wine region in North 256 00:19:51,656 --> 00:20:02,996 America. And I'm a Bitcoin forward business. So Bitcoin preferred always on my for sales of my 257 00:20:02,996 --> 00:20:09,296 wine. A lot of my time is spent working, talking to businesses about how to reach Bitcoiners, 258 00:20:09,296 --> 00:20:15,356 how to approach them, how to market to them, and what the best tools, the best way to approach 259 00:20:15,356 --> 00:20:22,536 using Bitcoin in the real world for the goods we need is best done. And the thing I keep coming 260 00:20:22,536 --> 00:20:28,836 back to is Bitcoin is not freedom money if we have to convert it to slave tokens in order to 261 00:20:28,836 --> 00:20:33,716 buy all the things we want. So building this Bitcoin economy is something that I've really 262 00:20:33,716 --> 00:20:38,976 felt like firsthand, but also I'm really motivated to continue working for. 263 00:20:40,256 --> 00:20:43,356 That's awesome. And how do you say the name of your winery? 264 00:20:44,596 --> 00:20:44,896 Peony. 265 00:20:46,036 --> 00:20:46,916 Oh, like the flower? 266 00:20:47,876 --> 00:20:48,116 Yes. 267 00:20:48,116 --> 00:20:48,416 Peonies? 268 00:20:49,256 --> 00:20:51,736 That's what I thought. All right. Awesome. And where does the name come from? 269 00:20:53,416 --> 00:21:00,916 My dad named his short-lived winery Peony Lane. So what's the namesake of my town, 270 00:21:00,916 --> 00:21:02,616 which is Paonia. 271 00:21:02,856 --> 00:21:06,236 It's a bastard spelling of P&E because the United States Postal Service 272 00:21:06,236 --> 00:21:09,496 didn't like P-A-O-E in the name. 273 00:21:09,736 --> 00:21:11,176 They didn't like the three vowels in a row, 274 00:21:11,276 --> 00:21:13,576 so they just ripped one off, and we got Paonia. 275 00:21:15,916 --> 00:21:16,476 All right. 276 00:21:16,536 --> 00:21:17,276 Well, all right. 277 00:21:17,276 --> 00:21:17,936 Sounds awesome. 278 00:21:18,056 --> 00:21:18,716 Well, I love your wine. 279 00:21:18,776 --> 00:21:19,716 It's a great time to order it. 280 00:21:20,816 --> 00:21:22,616 Hopefully, people should be able to order it now 281 00:21:22,616 --> 00:21:24,816 and probably get it for the holidays like Christmas and New Year's, 282 00:21:24,856 --> 00:21:28,016 but I already have some for Thanksgiving, so I'm a lucky guy. 283 00:21:28,416 --> 00:21:29,516 Let's get to the lightning round. 284 00:21:29,516 --> 00:21:31,356 I want to play that OG Andreas. 285 00:21:36,096 --> 00:21:36,736 Summarize. 286 00:21:37,216 --> 00:21:38,956 Any data can be encoded as any data. 287 00:21:39,936 --> 00:21:42,476 One person spams another person's content. 288 00:21:43,136 --> 00:21:46,676 The power to decide what is and what isn't allowed is dangerous 289 00:21:46,676 --> 00:21:48,676 because it leads to censorship. 290 00:21:48,896 --> 00:21:54,296 It also leads to giving the developers power over the protocol, 291 00:21:54,296 --> 00:21:58,016 which will eventually be used by someone else. 292 00:21:58,016 --> 00:22:05,196 and if the developers are shown to be able to censor, 293 00:22:05,336 --> 00:22:10,376 then they will become required to censor 294 00:22:10,376 --> 00:22:13,756 in any and all jurisdictions where they live. 295 00:22:15,216 --> 00:22:17,076 And so that's extremely dangerous. 296 00:22:19,036 --> 00:22:24,256 And people will be able to put ordinals and shit pegs 297 00:22:24,256 --> 00:22:29,256 and JPEGs and NFTs and garbage and Bible verses. 298 00:22:31,116 --> 00:22:32,216 I already said garbage. 299 00:22:32,216 --> 00:22:36,596 And other stuff on the blockchain, 300 00:22:36,596 --> 00:22:38,676 whether we want them to or not. 301 00:22:41,436 --> 00:22:45,776 And so I would rather people put it in an op return 302 00:22:45,776 --> 00:22:49,576 where we can then disregard it, prune it, 303 00:22:49,576 --> 00:22:52,036 and not have to carry it anymore forever 304 00:22:52,036 --> 00:22:56,596 than if they put it, hide it in other places of the protocol

305 00:22:56,596 --> 00:22:58,156 because we may not return too hard. 306 00:22:59,256 --> 00:23:02,636 And so I actually think that's a better... 307 00:23:02,636 --> 00:23:07,296 It seems like you guys are quite aligned. 308 00:23:08,416 --> 00:23:10,576 It's quite interesting that he showed back, 309 00:23:11,036 --> 00:23:14,696 you know, kind of got back on the horn to kind of chime in on this. 310 00:23:15,476 --> 00:23:18,876 I just don't like the idea, though, of like, we know you're... 311 00:23:18,876 --> 00:23:24,316 it's like it's acknowledgement we know you're doing things that i don't want to frame it as we 312 00:23:24,316 --> 00:23:28,796 don't want you to do but we know we you're doing things that are let's just call it garbage so like 313 00:23:29,356 --> 00:23:35,676 we built you a huge garbage pail and i just find that they're still gonna put it in the places you 314 00:23:35,676 --> 00:23:40,716 don't want i i think it's just like they'll go into the garbage pile plus all the places you 315 00:23:40,716 --> 00:23:46,636 still don't want i don't think it prevents or changes incentives that much what do you think 316 00:23:46,636 --> 00:24:03,836 Yeah, a lot of the debate tends to be like, yes, you center around, it centers around the child porn dynamic because that's the main thing that everyone agrees is bad. 317 00:24:03,836 --> 00:24:08,876 But what's getting caught in the cross is differentiate as to what's good, what's garbage, what's not. 318 00:24:08,876 --> 00:24:21,036 And the point of Freedom Tech is to not have to make people, like not give anyone the power to choose what is good and what is bad. 319 00:24:21,256 --> 00:24:29,396 So I don't necessarily know what the opportune limit should be or where the other things can be stored in Bitcoin. 320 00:24:29,396 --> 00:24:36,656 But my base case is when you say we agree something's bad or we think something's garbage, I ask who. 321 00:24:36,656 --> 00:24:40,016 And I don't think anyone has the right to be that who. 322 00:24:41,056 --> 00:24:41,956 I hear you. 323 00:24:42,116 --> 00:24:42,296 All right. 324 00:24:42,416 --> 00:24:44,616 The only, my last final note on this is though, 325 00:24:45,156 --> 00:24:48,216 I don't want more bells and whistles necessarily on Bitcoin 326 00:24:48,216 --> 00:24:50,436 unless it's more privacy and security. 327 00:24:52,216 --> 00:24:54,676 You know, I don't want it to be like Ethereum 328 00:24:54,676 --> 00:24:58,996 or, you know, necessarily like anything in that direction. 329 00:24:59,096 --> 00:25:00,976 Like I just want it to be great money 330 00:25:00,976 --> 00:25:02,816 and separate money from state. 331 00:25:02,976 --> 00:25:03,376 That's. 332 00:25:04,376 --> 00:25:04,856 Yeah. 333 00:25:04,856 --> 00:25:12,516 I think the core principle of Bitcoin are sure that there's personal sovereignty, make sure there's 21 million coins. 334 00:25:12,936 --> 00:25:18,456 And those are the two that can't be infringed upon. 335 00:25:19,936 --> 00:25:21,916 But the rest is a gray area. 336 00:25:22,696 --> 00:25:32,576 And if, you know, it's, I don't know, there's a lot that's just out of our hands and can't be, like, we can't really influence. 337 00:25:32,576 --> 00:25:37,136 And this is, I guess there's like a developer class that has influence over it. 338 00:25:37,136 --> 00:25:44,576 And, you know, Bitcoiners can vote with their nodes and vote with their voices and everything. 339 00:25:44,956 --> 00:25:55,736 But ultimately, I think a lot of what Andreas Antonopoulos says there is just that there's going to be a war to control developers in Bitcoin. 340 00:25:55,736 --> 00:26:15,456 And there needs to be talk now about how to deal with any changes in the future and how just because like as these nation states start buying Bitcoin and building Bitcoin reserves, they're going to absolutely influence the developers more if they're not already. 341 00:26:15,456 --> 00:26:31,096 And so I don't think that this debate is that worthwhile outside of the sense that it's very important framing for future debates on topics like privacy and resilience. 342 00:26:32,276 --> 00:26:34,916 All great points. All right, let's move on to the next one here. 343 00:26:35,556 --> 00:26:36,936 The whale power struggle. 344 00:26:36,936 --> 00:26:44,296 So a mysterious whale opened an $87.6 million short, three times short on BTC. 345 00:26:44,296 --> 00:26:51,276 and meanwhile others all held huge longs is this contrarian hedging by us by a smart money or a 346 00:26:51,276 --> 00:26:55,896 loaded bet that bitcoin can't break higher how do these multi-million shorts shape the crypto 347 00:26:55,896 --> 00:27:03,836 battleground do you even care ben is this current this is current he's currently got an 87 348 00:27:03,836 --> 00:27:09,076 hyperliquid this is whatever hyperliquid is we monitor this stuff and someone wrote about this 349 00:27:09,076 --> 00:27:15,356 particular trade i mean you see these dead bodies fly by all the time in the the wrecked bot on 350 00:27:15,356 --> 00:27:21,796 roster um i i don't know that's a lot of money but ultimately like there's there's huge bets either 351 00:27:21,796 --> 00:27:27,516 way this person could be hedged um on a different platform sure no i don't think this is constant 352 00:27:27,516 --> 00:27:31,516 the numbers are going to keep getting bigger and uh people are going to get wrecked losing money 353 00:27:31,516 --> 00:27:35,556 and uh in this situation it seems like one or the other is going to get wrecked so 354 00:27:35,556 --> 00:27:38,896 So do you pay attention to these whales? 355 00:27:38,896 --> 00:27:39,796 Do I? 356 00:27:39,796 --> 00:27:52,692 No I don really care about this I don trade So I think it interesting though and I think it my mind will get like a little fixated if someone makes one of these huge trades and it comes in within eight minutes of it happening 357 00:27:53,152 --> 00:27:55,472 And it's just

because you could see the tape. 358 00:27:55,692 --> 00:27:57,332 And it's just something to kind of noodle on. 359 00:27:57,472 --> 00:27:59,072 But ultimately, I don't care at all. 360 00:28:00,092 --> 00:28:03,932 That's where I get interested is when it's right before a big move to that. 361 00:28:04,312 --> 00:28:08,312 But at the same time, yeah, there's probably a million that we just don't even know about 362 00:28:08,312 --> 00:28:12,392 because the move didn't happen or they got wrecked in the wrong direction. 363 00:28:12,392 --> 00:28:14,812 And we said, yeah, rough. 364 00:28:14,872 --> 00:28:15,912 You shouldn't have shorted Bitcoin. 365 00:28:16,172 --> 00:28:17,512 So I don't know. 366 00:28:17,552 --> 00:28:20,892 It's going to get more and more corrupt as the people on the inside 367 00:28:20,892 --> 00:28:23,532 of the money printer dials start wanting to buy Bitcoin. 368 00:28:24,612 --> 00:28:25,692 Yeah, I hear you. 369 00:28:25,832 --> 00:28:27,372 All right, let's get on to the next one here. 370 00:28:29,272 --> 00:28:30,732 Strategy pauses their buying. 371 00:28:30,732 --> 00:28:33,272 After six consecutive weeks of purchases, 372 00:28:33,572 --> 00:28:36,292 MicroStrategy announced it will not buy more Bitcoin this week. 373 00:28:36,292 --> 00:28:40,592 is this a momentary breather or a sign that corporate buying is slowing and 374 00:28:40,592 --> 00:28:42,112 who will fill that demand vacuum? 375 00:28:43,352 --> 00:28:43,872 Man, 376 00:28:43,932 --> 00:28:48,512 it seems like corporate buying is at a serious nadir. 377 00:28:48,792 --> 00:28:52,132 They've pretty gotten wrecked over this past year. 378 00:28:52,992 --> 00:28:54,352 So that's wild to see, 379 00:28:54,432 --> 00:28:57,612 especially like I was having conversations with people like just expecting, 380 00:28:58,012 --> 00:28:58,252 you know, 381 00:28:58,452 --> 00:28:58,852 Oh yeah. 382 00:28:58,912 --> 00:28:59,432 In the, 383 00:28:59,432 --> 00:29:04,152 the Bitcoin treasury companies haven't even been really started buying. 384 00:29:04,152 --> 00:29:19,472 It turns out that was the peak of them by back. I bet there's a lot of just volatility that they needed to have a little bit of Bitcoin upside they needed to have and they'll get reinvigorated again. But I think the the polish is is a bit rubbed off. 385 00:29:19,472 --> 00:29:28,092 yeah i hear you i think you know i can't i can't help but wonder if it was insiders or ogs 386 00:29:28,092 --> 00:29:34,712 funding the treasury companies to get their liquidity around 100 quay okay the the weird 387 00:29:34,712 --> 00:29:40,792 thing about microtrategie not buying this week is uh what i want to hear what paul says it's uh 388 00:29:40,792 --> 00:29:46,912 and thanks for uh look it's paul tarantino okay guys you know we've got ben justin here but like 389 00:29:46,912 --> 00:29:54,212 Like, you know, the only thing I can I note about strategy pausing their buying after six consecutive weeks is

like, do they just not want to buy the lows? 390 00:29:55,072 --> 00:29:56,632 Do they only buy tops? 391 00:29:56,772 --> 00:30:00,192 Like, I thought they were just going to buy consistently instead of only tops. 392 00:30:00,192 --> 00:30:06,432 And like you would think they're, you know, the shareholders would want to buy more lows. 393 00:30:06,712 --> 00:30:08,412 So, Paul, what do you note here? 394 00:30:08,412 --> 00:30:19,152 My only note is that I think there's, I guess, a lot of analysis maybe or reanalyzing their strategy in the face of what MSCI is saying. 395 00:30:20,212 --> 00:30:36,552 They're looking at changing the, I don't know if it's a change of the rules or applying the rules that they've previously applied to what they consider just holding companies or companies that just make investments. 396 00:30:36,552 --> 00:30:47,992 And if they're starting to view strategy as having 50% or more of the value of the company just held in Bitcoin, then they might eliminate them from the MSCI index. 397 00:30:48,072 --> 00:30:51,732 And if that happens, you could see other indices follow that. 398 00:30:52,592 --> 00:31:01,512 That could change a lot of the passive flows that might change the structure of strategies game plan. 399 00:31:01,512 --> 00:31:06,772 And so maybe a pause is prudent in order to reevaluate. 400 00:31:07,572 --> 00:31:26,952 Do you think this is beyond sort of an attack around sort of MNAP valuation and more about, you know, eliminating or just deterring or just ruining MicroStrategy's 10%, 12% products because Wall Street, JP Morgan doesn't offer anything like that? 401 00:31:27,432 --> 00:31:27,672 Right. 402 00:31:27,752 --> 00:31:30,492 No, I can't rule that out. 403 00:31:30,492 --> 00:31:39,092 You know, I mean, Wall Street is great at punishing you if if they're not getting what they want or you're doing something they don't like. 404 00:31:39,192 --> 00:31:42,312 I mean, Bitcoin was punished for over a decade. Right. 405 00:31:42,752 --> 00:31:48,572 Because we're considered a threat to the traditional financial system. 406 00:31:48,572 --> 00:31:54,492 So I could see that. I mean, it's there was a lot of rhetoric back and forth. 407 00:31:54,492 --> 00:32:03,212 I saw on Twitter about, you know, that, oh, JP Morgan didn't really short MicroStrategy, 408 00:32:03,532 --> 00:32:09,052 but they had bought a lot of puts. And prior to buying those puts, they had sold a bunch of shares. 409 00:32:09,692 --> 00:32:18,852 And so if anything, this looks like they knew this problem with MSCI was coming. So they unloaded, 410 00:32:18,852 --> 00:32:28,272 They took an additional, they bought put, so they didn't actually short the stock, but they are benefiting from downward pressure on the stock. 411 00:32:28,632 --> 00:32:33,172 So look at these companies know stuff long before we do. 412 00:32:33,712 --> 00:32:38,972 And I think JP Morgan took advantage of it, or at least their traders did. 413 00:32:39,112 -->

00:32:42,672 Not that Jamie Dimon had any awareness at all about any of this stuff. 414 00:32:42,672 --> 00:32:50,132 But yeah, I just it wouldn't surprise me that when price gets to a certain level, they all compiling back in. 415 00:32:51,732 --> 00:32:53,772 Yeah. All right. Let's move on to the next one here. 416 00:32:53,812 --> 00:32:55,152 You make a lot of great points there. 417 00:32:55,192 --> 00:32:57,612 The death cross warning that we just went through. 418 00:32:57,712 --> 00:33:02,632 Bitcoin's 50 day moving average, moving average just crossed below its 200 day moving average. 419 00:33:02,952 --> 00:33:04,112 The dreaded death cross. 420 00:33:04,772 --> 00:33:07,852 Is this a harbinger of doom or an overhyped signal? 421 00:33:08,532 --> 00:33:12,092 Historically, have savvy traders seen this as a buy queue instead? 422 00:33:12,672 --> 00:33:17,932 What do you think, Paul? 423 00:33:18,672 --> 00:33:26,612 Well, look at death crosses in bull markets have oftentimes been quickly reversed. 424 00:33:27,952 --> 00:33:30,312 Death crosses in a bear market. 425 00:33:31,312 --> 00:33:37,332 If we truly have crossed into a bear market, then there's probably significantly more downside. 426 00:33:37,332 --> 00:33:43,572 So it kind of depends on your view of the next few months. 427 00:33:44,112 --> 00:33:49,112 I mean, I'm kind of leaning towards the bear market scenario here. 428 00:33:49,572 --> 00:33:54,892 I could see a relief rally in the meantime, but I'm leaning towards further downside. 429 00:33:56,132 --> 00:34:04,092 But that's coming from a guy who doesn't trade, who doesn't analyze charts very well, has never been successful at trading. 430 00:34:04,092 --> 00:34:11,692 uh so i just purely look at this as an opportunity to start buying uh sats at cheaper prices and the 431 00:34:11,692 --> 00:34:17,452 lower it goes the more i get every time i buy and that makes me happy yeah i mean how can you not 432 00:34:17,452 --> 00:34:22,512 see this as legendary entry point but doesn't you know mean timing i mean is it six months is it six 433 00:34:22,512 --> 00:34:28,572 weeks is six years i mean my crystal yeah right my crystal ball says it's it's at least three to 434 00:34:28,572 --> 00:34:35,692 six months. Probably not as deep as previous bear markets because we didn't go as high. 435 00:34:36,832 --> 00:34:45,732 But I mean, anywhere between 80 and 40, I'm stacking as hard as humanly possible. 436 00:34:46,672 --> 00:34:47,672 Any thoughts here, Ben? 437 00:34:48,592 --> 00:34:54,132 Yeah, I'm not really expecting to go too much lower. I've seen a number of metrics comparing 438 00:34:54,132 --> 00:35:03,912 the liquidations and the capitulation we had over the last month to the 2022 bottom and the 439 00:35:03,912 --> 00:35:11,432 COVID crash. And that makes me think that the sentiment has happened in the market. Now, 440 00:35:11,492 --> 00:35:17,352 I'm not expecting us to start ripping back up. I do kind of expect a bit of potentially a dead 441 00:35:17,352 --> 00:35:25,012 bounce idea with just like the language coming from the Trump administration is like very positive, 442 00:35:25,252 --> 00:35:31,492 very, very pro liquidity. But will that liquidity actually come? I think that we might see a top 443 00:35:31,492 --> 00:35:35,732 when people start realizing that that's not going to come until maybe early next year, 444 00:35:35,812 --> 00:35:39,932 mid next year, when they actually start gearing up to print money for midterms. 445 00:35:40,912 --> 00:35:44,972 The only thing I can say now is with everyone getting so bearish, it kind of makes me bullish. 446 00:35:44,972 --> 00:35:47,292 All right, let's move on to the next one here. There's a great clip coming up. 447 00:35:48,572 --> 00:35:54,332 I know you got a lot of thoughts on Bitcoin. Can you give us your, let's say your latest view and 448 00:35:54,332 --> 00:35:59,052 your criticisms on the asset? Well, I think the most important thing to understand is that Bitcoin 449 00:35:59,052 --> 00:36:04,012 has marketed itself as multiple different things to try to appeal to investors at various points 450 00:36:04,012 --> 00:36:08,092 in time. The initial implementation under the Satoshi white paper was a peer-to-peer payment 451 00:36:08,092 --> 00:36:13,372 system. The idea being that our payment systems, the rails of the payment systems, ultimately depend 452 00:36:13,372 --> 00:36:18,252 on the banking system. And so by moving to a distributed ledger and a peer-to-peer system, 453 00:36:18,252 --> 00:36:23,852 we'd be able to get banks out of the system. That's been a total failure. There are almost no 454 00:36:23,852 --> 00:36:29,212 real transactions that are occurring in Bitcoin. We have tons of transaction activity in speculative 455 00:36:29,212 --> 00:36:34,332 markets trading Bitcoin, but the actual quantity of retail transactions or peer-to-peer payments 456 00:36:34,332 --> 00:36:38,492 that occur over the Bitcoin network are remarkably small. And I'm sure every Bitcoiner out there can 457 00:36:38,492 --> 00:36:43,292 tell you the anecdote of, oh, I transferred $1,000 to somebody else. It's an immaterial 458 00:36:43,372 --> 00:36:49,772 component of its utilization. The second component is you have to understand that Bitcoin was born out 459 00:36:49,772 --> 00:36:54,812 of a philosophy coming from the global financial crisis, the crisis that was created by banks, by 460 00:36:54,812 --> 00:37:00,312 the overextension of credit. The banking system ultimately depends on credit. We talk about the 461 00:37:00,312 --> 00:37:04,952 expansion of the money supply, that money printing is occurring, et cetera. There's two types of money 462 00:37:04,952 --> 00:37:08,272 printing. There's money printing that comes from the government in which they largely are trying 463 00:37:08,272 --> 00:37:13,292 to smooth over mistakes that have been made. We make a mistake around COVID. We need a whole 464

00:37:13,292 --> 00:37:17,592 bunch of money to pay people so that they don't starve to death when we shut down the economy. 465 00:37:17,932 --> 00:37:23,292 We make a mistake when we decide that the housing market is extraordinarily robust and can 466 00:37:23,292 --> 00:37:28,392 accommodate any amount of credit that has been extended. As that credit defaults, it ultimately 467 00:37:28,392 --> 00:37:32,892 shrinks the collateral that's available, destroys wealth that people believe that they have. They 468 00:37:32,892 --> 00:37:37,012 shrink their spending in response to it. That means other business models now start to fail, 469 00:37:37,232 --> 00:37:42,612 and the government basically creates a do-over by printing money. The more frequent type of 470 00:37:42,612 --> 00:37:46,372 printing money is the extension of credit. You go to the bank and you say, hey, I'd like a loan for 471 00:37:46,372 --> 00:37:50,672 $1,000. They give you $1,000. They didn't actually take the money out of somebody else's account. 472 00:37:50,832 --> 00:37:56,392 They simply created a new account for you called your checking account that has $1,000 in it because 473 00:37:56,392 --> 00:38:03,172 you've been approved for this loan. That expansion is totally normal and it has a credit function 474 00:38:03,172 --> 00:38:08,372 associated with it. But Bitcoin destroys the ability to do that because it was intentionally 475 00:38:08,372 --> 00:38:14,232 designed to skip the banking system. And so it is effectively just a monetary system where what 476 00:38:14,232 --> 00:38:19,572 you're really seeing is Bitcoin is effectively the tokens that are paid to the accounting firms that 477 00:38:19,572 --> 00:38:24,532 keep the blockchain in order. That's really every Bitcoin that's out there is basically a payment 478 00:38:24,532 --> 00:38:31,052 to Deloitte and Touche, right? We're going to continue to do the accounting for this. In exchange 479 00:38:31,052 --> 00:38:36,932 for that, you're going to give us a shrinking share of new coins. Because you can't extend 480 00:38:36,932 --> 00:38:42,432 credit in that framework, right? No new money can be created. There is no capacity for mistake 481 00:38:42,432 --> 00:38:46,952 forgiveness in that type of framework. It ultimately becomes very limiting. Interest 482 00:38:46,952 --> 00:38:51,652 rates and credit spreads are just too high for a real economy framework. And that's by and large 483 00:38:51,652 --> 00:38:55,652 what we've seen. It hasn't emerged as a payment system. It hasn't emerged in any meaningful 484 00:38:55,652 --> 00:39:00,052 economic context, despite the fact that the asset has appreciated dramatically. 485 00:39:00,772 --> 00:39:06,572 The other issue is, is because we have a finite quantity of it, ultimately that means everybody 486 00:39:06,572 --> 00:39:13,992 who was born after the Bitcoin have been released finds themselves in deficit in a manner that you 487 00:39:13,992 --> 00:39:18,872 would

basically be a surf living off land in the 14th century that didn't belong to you and there 488 00:39:18,872 --> 00:39:22,772 was no other land that would ever become available to you because you actually couldn't acquire it. 489 00:39:23,312 --> 00:39:28,092 It creates a deeply unequal society. This is something that I recognized very early on and 490 00:39:28,092 --> 00:39:31,292 to be clear, I was an early adopter of Bitcoin because I thought it was actually a really 491 00:39:31,292 --> 00:39:37,612 interesting idea what happens if we decide that we have private money the problem is is if you run 492 00:39:37,612 --> 00:39:44,012 through the simulation bitcoin because there is a finite quantity of tokens means that it basically 493 00:39:44,012 --> 00:39:49,692 plays like a monopoly game right there is no entity that can accommodate unlimited growth you 494 00:39:49,692 --> 00:39:53,452 can't add additional players as the game is being played in monopoly because they're just going to 495 00:39:53,452 --> 00:39:56,492 lose very quickly they don't have any other properties they don't have any of the money 496 00:39:57,052 --> 00:40:01,132 right and so they're going to be losers in that system over and over again how does every game 497 00:40:01,132 --> 00:40:07,472 of monopoly end. Someone wins. With a single winner. And that's exactly what we've seen within 498 00:40:07,472 --> 00:40:13,332 Bitcoin. We've seen increased concentration of Bitcoin in absolute defiance of what the Bitcoiners 499 00:40:13,332 --> 00:40:16,832 all argue, that it was divisible and that everybody would end up getting it, et cetera. 500 00:40:17,312 --> 00:40:21,452 What we've seen is a Gini coefficient, that measure of inequality in the Bitcoin world 501 00:40:21,452 --> 00:40:26,512 that is beyond anything we've ever seen in the real world. It's a system that ultimately collapses 502 00:40:26,512 --> 00:40:28,852 upon itself and locks people out. 503 00:40:29,052 --> 00:40:32,432 Far from democratizing access, it does the exact opposite. 504 00:40:34,512 --> 00:40:35,312 All right. 505 00:40:35,372 --> 00:40:37,552 Who wants to respond to that criticism first? 506 00:40:39,572 --> 00:40:40,692 I got something. 507 00:40:41,252 --> 00:40:45,912 The biggest thing I really heard from him is the fiat apology. 508 00:40:46,732 --> 00:40:53,532 And it's a lot of framing the onus on Bitcoin when really the onus on Bitcoin to provide 509 00:40:53,532 --> 00:40:59,092 positive outcomes when one of the biggest benefits of Bitcoin is just avoiding the negative outcomes 510 00:40:59,092 --> 00:41:08,992 of fiat. And that's realistically enough for a lot of people to get the huge benefits. And the 511 00:41:08,992 --> 00:41:15,632 ability to paper over and make mistakes constantly just decreases the danger of those mistakes and 512 00:41:15,632 --> 00:41:22,572 increases the frequency. So a lot of just not realizing the downside of fiat because he is 513 00:41:22,572 --> 00:41:30,572 in a position where he doesn't really experience the downside of it and minimizing the issues with it. 514 00:41:32,572 --> 00:41:33,572 Paul? 515 00:41:33,572 --> 00:41:48,828 I couldn hear the whole clip I only caught the comment of the Gini coefficient at the end And so my only pushback there is that you know this distribution has over the last year has been massive and persistent 516 00:41:49,828 --> 00:41:53,068 And that distribution has been consistently bought. 517 00:41:53,068 --> 00:42:07,088 So, you know, when you see the central bank at the Czech Republic buying Bitcoin, you see the massive adoption that's spreading through Africa where they don't care about volatility. 518 00:42:07,088 --> 00:42:10,828 They just they just want SaaS because it's so much better than fiat. 519 00:42:10,828 --> 00:42:21,108 Sovereign wealth, pension funds, et cetera, buying Bitcoin to help support their goals 520 00:42:21,108 --> 00:42:28,288 to create a retirement for people in the United States or to shore up the balance sheet. 521 00:42:29,208 --> 00:42:35,788 I think Bitcoin is doing exactly the opposite of what he's talking about, which is distributing 522 00:42:35,788 --> 00:42:42,688 from the few early winners to the rest of the world that's going to be holding this asset for 523 00:42:42,688 --> 00:42:50,848 the long term. I didn't hear 90% of what he said, but knowing Mike, I'm sure it's relative to, 524 00:42:50,848 --> 00:42:54,608 you know, dollars are going to go up, bonds are going to go up, and everything else is going to 525 00:42:54,608 --> 00:43:04,528 die, and you better follow the old Wall Street game. So I don't know. I don't think he really 526 00:43:04,528 --> 00:43:07,368 The future of decentralized money. 527 00:43:08,088 --> 00:43:11,628 He was trying to throw some FUD or, you know, sort of discredit Bitcoin. 528 00:43:11,808 --> 00:43:14,088 But BitPain was on X. 529 00:43:14,148 --> 00:43:21,048 He said, here is Mike Green, who famously refused to buy Bitcoin at $25 cost basis on the advice of his wife. 530 00:43:21,788 --> 00:43:27,608 Dismissing the significance of a U.S. state buying Bitcoin at $85,000 cost basis because they only bought $10 million worth. 531 00:43:28,808 --> 00:43:30,288 You know, maybe he's just salty. 532 00:43:30,628 --> 00:43:32,208 Let's move on to the next one here. 533 00:43:32,888 --> 00:43:33,988 We got China. 534 00:43:33,988 --> 00:43:36,268 China's got a mining comeback here. 535 00:43:36,368 --> 00:43:41,108 They quietly reclaimed 14% of global Bitcoin hash power in October. 536 00:43:41,928 --> 00:43:45,248 Has the mining dragon truly awakened from its 2021 ban? 537 00:43:45,348 --> 00:43:49,888 And will cheap Chinese power catapult the next bull cycle? 538 00:43:53,848 --> 00:43:55,988 Did they take it back? 539 00:43:55,988 --> 00:43:57,008 Did they take it back? 540 00:43:57,128 --> 00:43:59,608 Or did they just finally disclose that they never got rid of it? 541 00:44:01,608

--> 00:44:03,968 I guess they are rising hash power. 542 00:44:03,988 --> 00:44:07,268 so I think they sort of reclaimed 14% 543 00:44:07,268 --> 00:44:09,308 I don't know how high they were 544 00:44:09,308 --> 00:44:11,008 prior I know there was around 545 00:44:11,008 --> 00:44:12,488 10% not too 546 00:44:12,488 --> 00:44:15,148 long ago so maybe it's about a 4% 547 00:44:15,148 --> 00:44:15,888 increase 548 00:44:15,888 --> 00:44:19,108 40% on their own 549 00:44:19,108 --> 00:44:19,328 turf 550 00:44:19,328 --> 00:44:22,088 that's good 551 00:44:22,088 --> 00:44:24,908 I think it's good for Bitcoin 552 00:44:24,908 --> 00:44:27,148 the global hash wars are good 553 00:44:27,148 --> 00:44:27,928 for Bitcoin right 554 00:44:27,928 --> 00:44:31,208 yeah my first instinct was really 555 00:44:31,208 --> 00:44:33,008 did it ever really disappear 556 00:44:33,008 --> 00:44:34,668 Yeah, I think they just moved it around. 557 00:44:36,068 --> 00:44:47,208 But what a resource, the electricity in China that is not being used for Bitcoin. 558 00:44:48,208 --> 00:44:50,768 That is a sleeping dragon to awake. 559 00:44:51,468 --> 00:44:54,248 And our enemies are going to get Bitcoin. 560 00:44:54,428 --> 00:44:56,588 And I don't necessarily want China to get a ton of Bitcoin. 561 00:44:56,588 --> 00:45:07,688 But I think that Bitcoin ends up getting into every society, every person, and potentially like awakening the desires for freedom. 562 00:45:08,328 --> 00:45:10,548 Who knows if that ever gets to Chinese people. 563 00:45:11,448 --> 00:45:19,028 But I don't want to say the more Bitcoin matter, but to that, the more Bitcoin everywhere. 564 00:45:19,208 --> 00:45:24,608 And there's so much just there's so much power being developed in China. 565 00:45:26,588 --> 00:45:31,948 It's going to be interesting when, yeah, their damn power, but when nuclear power gets focused on Bitcoin mining. 566 00:45:32,388 --> 00:45:33,588 All right, let's jump to the next one here. 567 00:45:33,748 --> 00:45:46,088 Oh, Italy opens a pathway, you know, for residency by you can you can now Italy now grants investor visas for 250,000 stake in a Bitcoin focused startup. 568 00:45:46,088 --> 00:45:51,688 And that's euros. Does this mark Europe's first real experiment in tying national residency rights to Bitcoin exposure? 569 00:45:52,148 --> 00:45:54,748 We're just sort of a clever arbitrage on immigration law. 570 00:45:56,588 --> 00:46:03,728 To me, it just seems like it's a new twist on an old visa program that they've had. 571 00:46:04,488 --> 00:46:14,668 So maybe they attract some people that want to get exposure to Bitcoin and have access to Italy and the EU at large. 572 00:46:14,668 --> 00:46:23,748 But I mean, as an American, I don't know how attracted this would be because you're going to be taxed on your global income anyways. 573 00:46:24,548 --> 00:46:27,548 Maybe it makes a lot more sense for people from other countries. 574 00:46:29,368 --> 00:46:29,828 I don't know. 575 00:46:29,988 --> 00:46:32,468 It just seems, you know, I mean, it's great. 576 00:46:32,688 --> 00:46:33,768 I don't think, don't get me wrong. 577 00:46:33,888 --> 00:46:38,368 I mean, all the more, the more investment or the more reasons to invest in Bitcoin, the better. 578 00:46:39,468 --> 00:46:43,028 But didn't seem to be like a game changer from where I'm coming from. 579 00:46:43,988 --> 00:46:44,248 All right. 580 00:46:44,348 --> 00:46:44,488 Yeah. 581 00:46:44,668 --> 00:46:45,688 Ben, you want to hear from you? 582 00:46:46,288 --> 00:46:49,988 It seems like a nothing burger on the specifics there. 583 00:46:50,168 --> 00:46:53,668 But I imagine that there is going to be this arm race to attract Bitcoiners. 584 00:46:53,748 --> 00:46:57,308 And Italy's got some pretty nice spots to be. 585 00:46:57,588 --> 00:47:04,528 And they need to differentiate themselves from the rest of Europe, given the regulatory framework in Europe. 586 00:47:05,068 --> 00:47:07,168 So that kind of hurts them as of now. 587 00:47:07,488 --> 00:47:19,268 But I imagine that we're going to see the dissenting European states trying to attract Bitcoin wealth, despite the overarching European in that field. 588 00:47:19,268 --> 00:47:26,528 yeah i hear you all right we'll keep an eye on that they're gonna get they're gonna have to 589 00:47:26,528 --> 00:47:30,948 throw some better offers out there yeah well that's what i'm looking forward to the competition 590 00:47:30,948 --> 00:47:35,648 let's see it hopefully increases let's get to the next one i want to see the stale clip here 591 00:47:44,548 --> 00:47:47,928 i don't hear it yeah we don't have any sound sorry i messed up 592 00:47:47,928 --> 00:47:55,528 all right well uh sailor is floating the idea of digital credit as the new fixed income 593 00:47:56,728 --> 00:48:00,728 what do you think paul do you think this is going to stick especially with all the sort 594 00:48:00,728 --> 00:48:09,128 of trouble they're having now with the mcsi yeah let's talk in six months let's see let's see if it 595 00:48:09,128 --> 00:48:15,368 sticks i mean look at them look at them oh sorry ben go ahead 596 00:48:17,928 --> 00:48:22,088 just need to restore some reputation to that because ever since they launched all those it's 597 00:48:22,088 --> 00:48:26,888 been pretty down um so they need to to show that they can recover in that regard before 598 00:48:26,888 --> 00:48:35,928 anyone starts taking that seriously well uh how much does strategy need you know bitcoin price to 599 00:48:35,928 --> 00:48:44,408 pump for this to all play out you know yeah more short term i i forget who did it on x but there 600 00:48:44,408 --> 00:48:53,548 there was a pretty good analysis, right? As to attract enough buyers into, I believe it's stretch, 601 00:48:54,348 --> 00:49:00,188 they've got to keep raising interest rates. And if they keep it raising the interest rate on 602 00:49:00,188 --> 00:49:07,408 stretch into a

falling Bitcoin price, you can get to a point where it looks pretty grim, 603 00:49:08,188 --> 00:49:13,848 regardless of the fact that they don't have a lot of outstanding debt, right? So 604 00:49:13,848 --> 00:49:28,248 So I think, you know, price, the price of Bitcoin going up is directly tied to strategies, long term ability to keep these perpetual credit offerings in good standing. 605 00:49:29,568 --> 00:49:39,028 Because it would, you know, right now, right, he raises the interest rate to attract more interest in that security. 606 00:49:39,028 --> 00:49:42,708 that's all well and fine but if you get if he gets to the point where he has to 607 00:49:43,588 --> 00:49:49,588 pull some of those triggers to lower the interest rate change the terms um then you just you could 608 00:49:49,588 --> 00:49:56,228 kill the reputation of that security and is at any point is he not not forced to sell like liquidate 609 00:49:56,228 --> 00:50:01,828 but to sell a little bit of bitcoin to cover either expenses or show the market that he's he's 610 00:50:01,828 --> 00:50:08,948 sort of going to like you know sort of uh provide some i mean sure there's there's there's things 611 00:50:08,948 --> 00:50:15,108 that could go wrong in the global economy the financial sector right if you can't borrow at a 612 00:50:15,108 --> 00:50:21,108 at a cheap rate if you can't issue the credit at lower rates and get any interest it's um 613 00:50:22,548 --> 00:50:27,028 you know you know there's everything's a possibility in these markets especially going 614 00:50:27,028 --> 00:50:33,708 into the type of environment where you're basically having some sort of reset on the 615 00:50:33,708 --> 00:50:36,288 debt of the United States, whether you like it or not. 616 00:50:37,628 --> 00:50:38,408 So we'll see. 617 00:50:39,628 --> 00:50:43,208 All the time strategy bought and everyone said, look, price didn't go up. 618 00:50:43,888 --> 00:50:48,528 And I wonder how much, you know, if strategy sold, you know, how much actual impact it 619 00:50:48,528 --> 00:50:52,028 would have on the market, you know, if they didn't tell anyone and they were selling. 620 00:50:52,448 --> 00:50:54,308 But let's say they told people they were selling. 621 00:50:54,308 --> 00:50:57,288 I bet market sentiment would turn dramatically. 622 00:50:58,848 --> 00:50:59,928 I think so too. 623 00:51:00,168 --> 00:51:02,308 I mean, you could get into a position where, 624 00:51:02,888 --> 00:51:06,508 I mean, this is one of the triggers 625 00:51:06,508 --> 00:51:08,688 or one of the fears that could really 626 00:51:08,688 --> 00:51:11,448 turn this bear market on 627 00:51:11,448 --> 00:51:16,548 and maybe even signal the bottom, right? 628 00:51:16,988 --> 00:51:20,748 Every bottom of every bear market we've had, 629 00:51:20,748 --> 00:51:23,748 there's been a sacred cow that's been slaughtered. 630 00:51:24,308 --> 00:51:30,508 I hope it's not strategy because I do believe in it, that he's trying to do something really cool. 631 00:51:31,308 --> 00:51:36,988 But somebody is going to get hurt and that will be the sign that it's over. 632 00:51:37,188 --> 00:51:41,168 Everyone will be petrified and think Bitcoin is dead finally again. 633 00:51:41,168 --> 00:51:54,168 But, yeah, I mean, you can see a potential path that would lead to some catastrophic outcomes. 634 00:51:55,608 --> 00:51:57,528 At least that's the way I think about it. 635 00:51:58,968 --> 00:52:03,688 A better perspective is about 180 degrees from where it is now in a year's time. 636 00:52:06,108 --> 00:52:10,808 Okay, let's say in a year's time, Bitcoin is $145,000. 637 00:52:11,168 --> 00:52:18,528 right and um let's say that's october and then come january it's back down to 638 00:52:19,408 --> 00:52:26,608 one 101 are we having the same conversation or are they just going to have the same balance sheet 639 00:52:26,608 --> 00:52:33,648 just times 0.25 you know what i mean or is it going to be in a different place for them completely 640 00:52:33,648 --> 00:52:39,408 like at what point do they sort of break out of like what happens to bitcoin price downward in the 641 00:52:39,408 --> 00:52:48,068 next six months? And is that a threat to strategy? Well, they need the volatility, correct? They can 642 00:52:48,068 --> 00:52:55,468 win up or down. It's obviously more beneficial for them to be up. But if we're talking about, 643 00:52:55,668 --> 00:53:02,328 yeah, another year of up sideways to 150 for round numbers and then back down to 100, I'm seeing 644 00:53:02,328 --> 00:53:08,648 another consolidation event and another higher low that ultimately ends up being extremely bullish 645 00:53:08,648 --> 00:53:16,728 in the long term. If that happens in the backdrop of the amount of money printing that I expect 646 00:53:17,848 --> 00:53:25,128 over 2026 that are concerning and I would expect gold to be on some insane bull run, 647 00:53:25,128 --> 00:53:34,008 stealing all that capital. But the scenario you lined out is painful because we hope for more, 648 00:53:34,008 --> 00:53:40,588 We expect more. And this past year has been a bit frustrating, but it's ultimately a pretty damn bullish setup. 649 00:53:42,428 --> 00:53:45,448 Yeah, I mean, it couldn't be more bullish, this setup. 650 00:53:45,708 --> 00:53:47,008 All right, let's move on to the next one. 651 00:53:47,308 --> 00:53:49,308 So a little bit of a continuation of the thread. 652 00:53:49,448 --> 00:53:51,408 So I don't know if you guys just want to bury this, move on. 653 00:53:51,868 --> 00:53:54,088 But the MicroStrategy bear rumor is continuing the thread. 654 00:53:54,228 --> 00:53:58,468 Did JP Morgan actually short MSTR to shake out Bitcoin supporters? 655 00:53:58,648 --> 00:54:00,948 Or is that viral tweet, all hat and no cattle? 656 00:54:00,948 --> 00:54:04,188 Is MSCR being targeted by bad actors spreading FUD? 657 00:54:05,728 --> 00:54:08,068 I don't know if it's bad actors. 658

00:54:08,248 --> 00:54:13,948 I think there's a bigger question for all these treasury companies, which is... 659 00:54:15,028 --> 00:54:16,328 Are they just closed-in funds? 660 00:54:17,108 --> 00:54:17,368 Right. 661 00:54:17,468 --> 00:54:26,188 If your entire business or the vast majority of your business, in MSCI's case, right, it's more than 50% of your business, 662 00:54:26,188 --> 00:54:32,108 is based on just holding bitcoin and relying on multiples on your mnav to be able to sell shares 663 00:54:32,108 --> 00:54:39,308 to be able to buy more bitcoin that accretive dilution if that's your if that's your business 664 00:54:39,308 --> 00:54:45,948 model then i think you're going to see these treasury companies just compressed to one mnav 665 00:54:46,828 --> 00:54:52,188 and then you have to figure out how do you run this business model if your mnav's one 666 00:54:52,188 --> 00:55:00,108 all the time right or the volatility above and below one is tiny right yeah um and then and then 667 00:55:01,788 --> 00:55:07,468 what what's your true value what would i what now i think sailor's got some really interesting stuff 668 00:55:07,468 --> 00:55:14,028 going on with all of his credit offerings um and i think those credit offerings are really really 669 00:55:14,028 --> 00:55:21,628 cool and and brilliant um i just don't we'll just have to see how the market takes it right and um 670 00:55:22,188 --> 00:55:27,828 I think the market needs to see that these credit facilities are going to be there, 671 00:55:28,628 --> 00:55:32,988 these securities are going to be there through thick and thin. 672 00:55:33,024 --> 00:55:39,284 And if he makes it through a bear market cycle, then I think they'll come piling right into it. 673 00:55:40,924 --> 00:55:41,644 All right. 674 00:55:41,884 --> 00:55:42,364 Let's see. 675 00:55:42,604 --> 00:55:42,804 All right. 676 00:55:42,824 --> 00:55:45,064 Let's go to the last topic here on El Salvador. 677 00:55:46,344 --> 00:55:47,024 All right. 678 00:55:47,264 --> 00:55:48,584 IMF versus Bitcoin. 679 00:55:48,704 --> 00:55:53,644 The IMF warns El Salvador over its Bitcoin laws, but Bukele keeps buying dips, apparently. 680 00:55:54,284 --> 00:55:59,664 Is this friction highlighting a currency sovereignty battle or just normalizing crypto in the face of fiat instability? 681 00:55:59,664 --> 00:56:14,504 thoughts uh well i don't know if he's buying bitcoin uh there's been some you know is he 682 00:56:14,504 --> 00:56:22,024 moving it around uh he's buying it cedric he's buying bitcoin and how much the finger 683 00:56:22,024 --> 00:56:28,044 i don't know he's working with the imf sure and he's buying bitcoin 684 00:56:28,044 --> 00:56:37,664 anyone who's gone against the IMF no one who's gone so let's say he keeps paying the IMF 685 00:56:37,664 --> 00:56:43,184 and he keeps behind bitcoin what are they going to do are they going to be like 686 00:56:43,184 --> 00:56:49,944 we're just going to default on you

even though you're paying your your debt well he's risking 687 00:56:49,944 --> 00:56:55,044 future financing I mean they are it's quite a lifeline they're giving him whether it's 688 00:56:55,044 --> 00:56:59,144 predatory or not. I mean, they're talking several billions of dollars, tens of billions of dollars. 689 00:57:00,284 --> 00:57:03,384 Who's the biggest contributor to the IMF? 690 00:57:04,404 --> 00:57:07,484 Who's the biggest contributor? The states. 691 00:57:08,404 --> 00:57:08,604 Yeah. 692 00:57:09,344 --> 00:57:12,584 Yeah. So, I mean, you would think... 693 00:57:12,584 --> 00:57:14,904 Who are the biggest participants in El Salvador? 694 00:57:14,904 --> 00:57:16,664 You would think he's protected by the states. 695 00:57:17,224 --> 00:57:19,804 He's said, yeah, no, Tether's headquartered there. 696 00:57:20,704 --> 00:57:23,004 I mean, it seems like a closed loop there. 697 00:57:23,004 --> 00:57:24,884 It's all good. El Salvador's going to be 698 00:57:24,884 --> 00:57:29,884 I saw they had a picture with Giacomo Zuccomo. 699 00:57:30,404 --> 00:57:33,784 He handed Bukele a bottle of rum called, 700 00:57:34,004 --> 00:57:36,464 he gifted him a bottle of rum called Dictator. 701 00:57:39,164 --> 00:57:40,544 Yes, yes. 702 00:57:40,624 --> 00:57:44,824 I mean, he's running the MAGA playbook 703 00:57:44,824 --> 00:57:46,964 to see if Trump can run for a third term. 704 00:57:46,964 --> 00:57:49,244 And you think he's truly independent? 705 00:57:51,104 --> 00:57:53,504 Do I think Bukele's truly independent? 706 00:57:53,504 --> 00:57:58,064 Yeah, and not protected by the states if he's going to go against the IMF here. 707 00:57:58,584 --> 00:58:00,584 Oh, no, I think he's. 708 00:58:01,484 --> 00:58:02,964 Have you ever seen anyone? 709 00:58:03,544 --> 00:58:06,044 Well, I think he has the blessing of the United States. 710 00:58:06,664 --> 00:58:09,664 I wouldn't say protected, but I think he's he's been blessed. 711 00:58:10,524 --> 00:58:11,124 I think so. 712 00:58:11,124 --> 00:58:17,644 Just like when Tether came out of those congressional hearings and, you know, they were they were blessed. 713 00:58:18,384 --> 00:58:19,844 Tether bought a bunch of gold, Paul. 714 00:58:19,904 --> 00:58:20,444 What do you think? 715 00:58:21,144 --> 00:58:21,564 I'm sorry. 716 00:58:22,004 --> 00:58:23,444 Tether bought a bunch of gold. 717 00:58:23,504 --> 00:58:27,504 Well, they've had gold for some time. 718 00:58:27,504 --> 00:58:28,504 Yeah. 719 00:58:28,504 --> 00:58:29,504 Yeah. 720 00:58:29,504 --> 00:58:30,504 I'll read it. 721 00:58:30,504 --> 00:58:32,504 Gold, Bitcoin, treasuries. 722 00:58:32,504 --> 00:58:43,786 But that graph that came out that was exactly that Yeah Tether brought more gold last quarter than every central bank What the fuck is up with that 723 00:58:45,166 --> 00:58:47,266 Somebody might have told them, hey, buy some gold. 724 00:58:47,306 --> 00:58:48,146 That's what you have to do. 725 00:58:49,146 --> 00:58:50,786 All right, I got another one. 726 00:58:52,386 --> 00:58:55,106 Rohan Harani says, I mean, what did people expect? 727 00:58:55,266 --> 00:58:59,726 You don't just walk into the $150 trillion fixed income cartel 728 00:58:59,726 --> 00:59:03,346 and sustainably offer 8% to 12% yields without making some enemies. 729 00:59:04,186 --> 00:59:05,826 JP Morgan is just the first domino. 730 00:59:06,466 --> 00:59:10,346 Those who've spent decades selling investors a safe 2% to 4% yield 731 00:59:10,346 --> 00:59:14,006 are not going to sit quietly while one firm shows up with a structure 732 00:59:14,006 --> 00:59:16,346 that can plausibly deliver 3% to 5% that. 733 00:59:16,906 --> 00:59:20,366 For years, anyone offering 10% was usually a DeFi casino, 734 00:59:20,966 --> 00:59:24,446 a fund about to blow up, or some risky scheme that TradFi knew 735 00:59:24,446 --> 00:59:25,726 wouldn't survive for long. 736 00:59:26,006 --> 00:59:28,346 So they were shrugged off as not a threat. 737 00:59:28,846 --> 00:59:30,046 But strategy is different. 738 00:59:30,266 --> 00:59:33,146 It's simple and it's terrifying for traditional credit issuers. 739 00:59:33,726 --> 00:59:35,806 Because here's the uncomfortable truth. 740 00:59:36,386 --> 00:59:40,846 No institution can sustainably match 8% to 12% without touching Bitcoin. 741 00:59:41,366 --> 00:59:43,586 And most of them are starting way behind the eight ball. 742 00:59:44,026 --> 00:59:47,486 So if they can't compete fairly, some are going to try competing unfairly. 743 00:59:47,826 --> 00:59:49,966 That's just how insurance systems behave. 744 00:59:50,326 --> 00:59:54,406 Strategy had a massive head start because everyone else mocked them or assumed they'd blow up. 745 00:59:54,806 --> 00:59:56,586 And there's still a ton of turbulence ahead. 746 00:59:56,706 --> 00:59:58,306 But the direction of travel is obvious. 747 00:59:58,346 --> 01:00:03,626 Bitcoin-centered digital credit will punch a giant hole straight through the fixed income market. 748 01:00:03,946 --> 01:00:07,826 Not overnight, but step-by-step in a way the old system can't keep up with. 749 01:00:09,286 --> 01:00:10,346 Interesting take. 750 01:00:10,966 --> 01:00:12,686 No, that's very well said. 751 01:00:15,586 --> 01:00:22,946 It's curious that just after listening to Jack's Monday night show, 752 01:00:22,946 --> 01:00:30,106 a lot about offering those same products like cash, interest on your cash. And since that just 753 01:00:30,106 --> 01:00:36,746 basically goes into allowing more Bitcoin loans, they can pay 6%, 7%, 8% interest on that. And 754 01:00:36,746 --> 01:00:41,206 it's curious that the two things that are being attacked during this bear market 755 01:00:41,206 --> 01:00:47,366 are the two things that are directly going after these big entrenched systems. 756 01:00:47,366 --> 01:00:54,646 yeah you you you uh challenge treasuries you're gonna have a challenge in front of you 757 01:00:54,646 -->

01:00:59,466 well they're trying to become buyers of treasuries though right i mean i don't think you can offer 758 01:00:59,466 --> 01:01:05,186 interest on sort of the stable coins unless you offer i guess it's technically bitcoin back that 759 01:01:05,186 --> 01:01:08,386 this could be interesting how this rolls out but i think you have to sort of have the treasuries 760 01:01:08,386 --> 01:01:13,026 to offer the interest yeah but i thought we were talking about interest on uh the coin 761 01:01:13,026 --> 01:01:16,546 the sailors creating right well i mean 762 01:01:18,626 --> 01:01:23,666 which are they are fighting him i mean how good of a fight do you think they could put up 763 01:01:24,706 --> 01:01:30,706 if you don't even on that pretty good they go they got a big big well i mean can they just 764 01:01:30,706 --> 01:01:36,386 delay for a year or two or like can they really set it back five ten years you know and and would 765 01:01:36,386 --> 01:01:47,628 it be in their best interest to try and do you know to sort of derail stable coins and crypto and all that or can they set strategy back i don know that they interested in derailing stable coins 766 01:01:48,188 --> 01:01:53,468 sure but can they but i think if you derail bitcoin i think you sort of 767 01:01:54,908 --> 01:01:59,148 you push back the rollout i think of stable coins and crypto and i think it's very related to bitcoin 768 01:01:59,148 --> 01:02:05,068 prices uh going up really helps the momentum of issue of rolling those other things out 769 01:02:05,068 --> 01:02:29,508 I just think that they're, I mean, I think the point of that tweet was that, look, if the entire mission of the big banks that own the central bank are to have as much liquidity as possible in the treasury market, because they are forced buyers of the treasury market. 770 01:02:29,508 --> 01:02:42,748 Right. And anything that threatens that makes their life miserable and weakens their business model. 771 01:02:42,748 --> 01:02:52,288 right so if sailor is successful at this and then it starts being copied in every major 772 01:02:52,288 --> 01:02:59,328 jurisdiction every major financial market around the world that dethrones the treasury market 773 01:02:59,328 --> 01:03:08,628 much more quickly so instead of a controlled demolition that they can steer the titanic through 774 01:03:08,628 --> 01:03:16,448 they're going to have rough seas and chaos. So I think they're going to fight it the whole time. 775 01:03:17,568 --> 01:03:22,708 Regardless of, but regardless of sailors success or not, Bitcoin is going to keep doing, 776 01:03:22,708 --> 01:03:31,608 it's what Bitcoin does. We got, we got to this point, you know, without institutions and we will 777 01:03:31,608 --> 01:03:40,168 continue. So it, you know, Bitcoin is designed to go up forever. The supply is going to be 778 01:03:40,168 --> 01:03:48,048 constantly shrinking. New buyers are emerging globally all the time. And the best that J.B. 779

01:03:48,108 --> 01:03:53,768 Morgan can do or any financial institution could do is delay the inevitable. 780 01:03:55,908 --> 01:04:01,588 Bitcoin for sure. But with MSDR, it seems like they smell the blood in the water. And if there 781 01:04:01,588 --> 01:04:09,248 was one chance to like take them out or derail what they're doing now is it but if mstr succeeds 782 01:04:09,248 --> 01:04:14,508 makes it through this low period and and really gets back shows strength and shows resilience 783 01:04:14,508 --> 01:04:23,168 it gets a lot harder to cut it out to get it out of there so um this is their operations yeah sure 784 01:04:23,168 --> 01:04:27,668 mstr was down a lot before this back in the bear market but they weren't offering these yield 785 01:04:27,668 --> 01:04:32,888 products. So it was just cute back then. Yeah, now it's something that could be existential 786 01:04:32,888 --> 01:04:40,568 risk. And it's Bitcoin really attacking the financial system head on as the best way to 787 01:04:40,568 --> 01:04:54,090 give the dividend markets I blanking on the word We were just talking about it But you know 788 01:04:54,210 --> 01:04:56,130 the players in this are interesting 789 01:04:56,130 --> 01:04:57,170 because like Lutnick, 790 01:04:57,310 --> 01:04:59,250 Canada Fitzgerald has a huge position, 791 01:04:59,430 --> 01:05:01,030 I think, in micro strategy, 792 01:05:01,150 --> 01:05:01,490 don't they? 793 01:05:02,830 --> 01:05:03,590 Yeah, I'm not sure. 794 01:05:04,610 --> 01:05:05,550 It wouldn't surprise me. 795 01:05:06,450 --> 01:05:07,370 So, all right. 796 01:05:08,050 --> 01:05:10,110 Francis, we got any questions 797 01:05:10,110 --> 01:05:13,050 or comments in the chat there? 798 01:05:13,270 --> 01:05:15,330 We got a quick comment. 799 01:05:16,730 --> 01:05:17,570 Robert Schmidt says, 800 01:05:17,630 --> 01:05:19,250 Tether made a gold stablecoin. 801 01:05:19,370 --> 01:05:20,390 That's why they bought the gold. 802 01:05:21,210 --> 01:05:21,470 True. 803 01:05:22,010 --> 01:05:22,310 True. 804 01:05:22,650 --> 01:05:23,250 Good job. 805 01:05:24,310 --> 01:05:27,010 Thanks for filling that blank in for us. 806 01:05:27,030 --> 01:05:27,670 I remember that. 807 01:05:27,890 --> 01:05:28,050 Yep. 808 01:05:28,890 --> 01:05:29,850 What do you think of that, Paul? 809 01:05:29,850 --> 01:05:30,850 You think... 810 01:05:30,850 --> 01:05:32,210 I mean, there's... 811 01:05:32,210 --> 01:05:33,850 I mean... 812 01:05:33,850 --> 01:05:36,130 Are we going to get a beef stablecoin? 813 01:05:36,130 --> 01:05:37,630 What do I think of it? 814 01:05:37,670 --> 01:05:40,930 There's been gold-backed digital tokens 815 01:05:40,930 --> 01:05:43,310 for as long as I've been in Bitcoin. 816 01:05:44,070 --> 01:05:45,690 None of them have ever taken off. 817 01:05:47,550 --> 01:05:50,010 If anybody in the world has the connections 818 01:05:50,010 --> 01:05:53,490 to make a viable gold token, 819 01:05:54,450 --> 01:05:55,230 it's Tether. 820 01:05:56,170 --> 01:05:58,130 They've got all the right connections. 821 01:05:58,850 --> 01:06:03,490 So I'm sure it's going to be a good market for them. 822 01:06:03,810 --> 01:06:06,690 But at the end of the day, 823 01:06:06,950 --> 01:06:09,570 I think at the end of the day, 824 01:06:09,570 --> 01:06:12,710 the true value of gold is the fact that it's not digital. 825 01:06:13,290 --> 01:06:14,190 And it's not dollars. 826 01:06:14,650 --> 01:06:14,990 Right. 827 01:06:15,970 --> 01:06:17,310 So it's kind of a paradox. 828 01:06:17,370 --> 01:06:22,910 Well, no, I don't believe this is a gold-backed dollar stablecoin. 829 01:06:23,170 --> 01:06:28,590 This is, I believe, and maybe this listener can correct me if I'm wrong, 830 01:06:28,650 --> 01:06:31,110 I believe it's just a gold-pegged token. 831 01:06:31,810 --> 01:06:33,550 So it fluctuates with the price. 832 01:06:33,830 --> 01:06:35,350 More like represents an ounce of gold. 833 01:06:35,350 --> 01:06:39,550 Yeah, so it's a way to trade gold easily that sits in vaults. 834 01:06:39,570 --> 01:06:40,490 sure. 835 01:06:41,210 --> 01:06:42,990 Rehypothecated also like a thousand. 836 01:06:43,630 --> 01:06:45,510 I don't know that it's rehypothecated, 837 01:06:45,650 --> 01:06:46,570 but it is, 838 01:06:46,630 --> 01:06:50,230 it is just a simple way of gold with gold sitting in vaults, 839 01:06:50,250 --> 01:06:52,990 have a digital token issue on top of them that they can be traded. 840 01:06:54,470 --> 01:06:55,110 All right, 841 01:06:55,110 --> 01:06:55,350 cool. 842 01:06:55,490 --> 01:06:55,990 Fair enough. 843 01:06:56,790 --> 01:06:57,370 All right. 844 01:06:57,390 --> 01:06:58,150 Anything else in there, 845 01:06:58,190 --> 01:06:58,510 Francis? 846 01:07:00,130 --> 01:07:01,150 That's it for tonight. 847 01:07:01,350 --> 01:07:01,730 All right, 848 01:07:01,790 --> 01:07:01,990 man. 849 01:07:01,990 --> 01:07:02,230 Well, 850 01:07:02,270 --> 01:07:04,250 this was awesome with Ben jumping in. 851 01:07:04,650 --> 01:07:04,790 Yeah. 852 01:07:04,850 --> 01:07:05,210 Thank you, 853 01:07:05,290 --> 01:07:05,470 Ben. 854 01:07:05,590 --> 01:07:06,270 Appreciate it. 855 01:07:06,850 --> 01:07:07,750 Thanks for having me. 856 01:07:07,870 --> 01:07:09,550 I'm sorry to hear you had some trouble. 857 01:07:09,570 --> 01:07:14,370 beforehand oh that's all right that's what happens when you try and drive an old truck 858 01:07:16,610 --> 01:07:21,730 well join us every tuesday uh at 8 00 pm eastern for bitcoin center my name is cedric youngelman 859 01:07:21,730 --> 01:07:26,050 this was uh ben just been jumping in and paul tarantino hopping on for the end here uh 860 01:07:27,090 --> 01:07:32,370 this is brought to you by bite federal so go bank yourself uh you know you got the bitcoin atm the 861 01:07:32,370 --> 01:07:37,970 crypto wallet and the point of sale and put that stuff in self-custody i'm looking forward to 862 01:07:37,970 --> 01:07:39,730 joining you in the shed next week, Cedric. 863 01:07:39,850 --> 01:07:41,730 All right, next week, brother. Maybe we'll have Ben call in. 864 01:07:42,110 --> 01:07:43,530 Perfect. Sounds good. 865 01:07:43,530 --> 01:07:45,450 Love to. See you guys next week. All right, guys. Thanks. 866 01:07:45,770 --> 01:07:46,090 Peace.