Full Transcript for Ep. 389 - Q&A - October, 2026

qualifications or anything 74 00:03:40.539 --> 00:03:43.439 like that, but he's been the only one to look 75 00:03:43.479 --> 00:03:46.259 at this stuff, really, with those sort of eyes. Yeah, 76 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:48.759 so it was nice to have another guy, you know, 77 00:03:48.840 --> 00:03:50.699 take a look at it. And when I say another guy, 78 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:53.560 I mean, don't get me wrong, he's legitimately a highly 79 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:57.930 qualified expert in this kind of forensics. So we'll have 80 00:03:57.969 --> 00:03:59.550 him on maybe in a few weeks or something like 81 00:03:59.590 --> 00:04:00.789 that to see what he has to say about it 82 00:04:00.849 --> 00:04:05.449 once he's done digesting the, you know, the overload that 83 00:04:05.530 --> 00:04:08.349 I shoved inside of his brain there, you know, shoved 84 00:04:08.389 --> 00:04:10.509 inside of his eyeballs there. But, you know, a great 85 00:04:10.550 --> 00:04:12.930 thing about that, another side benefit of this, I think, 86 00:04:13.150 --> 00:04:16.540 is that while he was busy taking pictures of all 87 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:19.220 these footprint casts from a million different angles and marking 88 00:04:19.259 --> 00:04:21.560 things down and taking notes and all this other stuff 89 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:24.360 he was doing, I was just sitting around. So I 90 00:04:24.379 --> 00:04:28.740 didn't just sit around. I finally, finally got through the 91 00:04:28.839 --> 00:04:33.560 first flush of the Meldrum materials. Like all those stacks 92 00:04:33.620 --> 00:04:36.350 of papers on the filing cabinets behind me that my members, 93 00:04:36.389 --> 00:04:38.790 the NABC members have been seeing in my membership videos 94 00:04:39.310 --> 00:04:42.009 and all the stuff that you guys saw, both of you, 95 00:04:42.129 --> 00:04:45.129 you and Matt, who's back here somewhere working around, all 96 00:04:45.170 --> 00:04:46.939 that stuff that was on top of the filing cabinets, 97 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:50.660 I have finally gone through for the first time. And 98 00:04:50.779 --> 00:04:53.199 so I've sorted it out in very, very rough order. 99 00:04:53.790 --> 00:04:56.980 patterns and piles and folders and this and that. And 100 00:04:57.040 --> 00:05:00.180 now I've started working my way through the second time 101 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:03.839 through all the paperwork, which is just making it more 102 00:05:03.879 --> 00:05:06.360 and more organized every time I do it. I've gotten 103 00:05:06.399 --> 00:05:10.589 through the letter E now in Meldrum's general files, which 104 00:05:10.610 --> 00:05:13.670 doesn't include the people files or the Vance Orchard files 105 00:05:13.889 --> 00:05:17.910 or the footprint find data either. But still, it's a 106 00:05:17.970 --> 00:05:22.439 lot of progress. Legitimately over 20 hours of work in 107 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:25.160 a row. On the Meldrum stuff. So that was a 108 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:28.420 fantastic opportunity for me to kind of section out my 109 00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:30.350 life in that sort of way and get that done. 110 00:05:31.310 --> 00:05:33.610 I think it's probably worth mentioning because we're recording this 111 00:05:33.750 --> 00:05:37.310 on Friday, October the 16th, and the film Capturing Bigfoot 112 00:05:37.329 --> 00:05:40.860 will be released for public consumption on October the 20th 113 00:05:40.899 --> 00:05:44.639 via Amazon Prime. So when this episode comes out the 114 00:05:44.680 --> 00:05:47.639 Monday before that, I'm sure it's going to be on 115 00:05:47.779 --> 00:05:49.819 everyone's minds all week. It's not like all of our 116 00:05:49.860 --> 00:05:52.740 listeners listen on the Monday that it's released. So just 117 00:05:52.779 --> 00:05:55.660 so everyone knows, as we're recording this, we have not 118 00:05:55.720 --> 00:05:59.339 seen the film yet. We were offered screener links that 119 00:05:59.379 --> 00:06:01.720 we said yes to multiple times, and then those links 120 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:04.160 never arrived. So we haven't gotten the chance to, but 121 00:06:04.220 --> 00:06:06.699 we are going to watch it. And after we watch it, 122 00:06:06.699 --> 00:06:08.730 we're going to do a big deep dive episode and 123 00:06:08.899 --> 00:06:11.889 just discuss freely about like what we saw, what our 124 00:06:11.930 --> 00:06:14.509 impressions were, what we make of it all. So until then, 125 00:06:15.230 --> 00:06:18.100 We're not being mum about anything. We just literally have 126 00:06:18.180 --> 00:06:20.139 not seen it. But as soon as we see it, 127 00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:22.699 we are going to record episodes about it. And we'll 128 00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:26.100 probably get some guests related to the film to talk 129 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:28.360 about their experiences and what they see in it, too. 130 00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:31.139 Yeah, because it really doesn't do anybody any good to 131 00:06:31.180 --> 00:06:33.560 talk about something we haven't seen. Although, as usual, that 132 00:06:33.579 --> 00:06:36.889 doesn't stop the Bigfoot community. They seem to enjoy ranting 133 00:06:36.930 --> 00:06:39.240 about various things they know nothing about. So let them 134 00:06:39.250 --> 00:06:41.720 do that. And in the meantime, you just wait until 135 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:44.259 we see it, because I've already now that the film 136 00:06:44.279 --> 00:06:46.519 has been out and been observed by a fair number 137 00:06:46.540 --> 00:06:49.379 of people at these various premieres and showings and stuff 138 00:06:49.420 --> 00:06:51.139 in various towns. There was one even in Portland this 139 00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:52.980 past week. I wasn't able to make it. I had 140 00:06:53.019 --> 00:06:56.870 previous obligations that night. But immediately, as soon as people 141 00:06:57.129 --> 00:06:59.110 got out of the movie, I started getting texts from 142 00:06:59.149 -->

00:07:02.410 people I haven't heard from in a long time. And again, 143 00:07:02.629 --> 00:07:05.889 just like before people saw it, it's all over the place. 144 00:07:06.269 --> 00:07:08.560 Some people say, oh, it's exactly the same, blah, blah, blah. 145 00:07:08.579 --> 00:07:10.279 It's clearly a hoax. And other people are saying, oh, 146 00:07:10.300 --> 00:07:12.579 this is nonsense. This isn't a hoax at all. And again, 147 00:07:12.699 --> 00:07:17.410 there's no consensus. So I am not one to put 148 00:07:17.430 --> 00:07:19.649 a lot of faith in other people's observations. And I 149 00:07:19.689 --> 00:07:23.689 would rather not let them decide for me what I 150 00:07:23.699 --> 00:07:25.350 think about it. So we got to wait till we 151 00:07:25.389 --> 00:07:28.769 see it. And like Matt says, we've been promised screeners twice, actually. 152 00:07:29.110 --> 00:07:30.930 Haven't seen them yet. It's only been a few weeks, 153 00:07:30.970 --> 00:07:33.970 so we'll see. We'll see what happens. We'll see what happens. 154 00:07:34.350 --> 00:07:36.189 I'm looking forward to seeing it. That's for, but you 155 00:07:36.209 --> 00:07:38.750 know what I do like is Daniel Perez saw it 156 00:07:38.790 --> 00:07:40.810 and I had a conversation with him about it. And 157 00:07:40.850 --> 00:07:42.870 one of the things he said is like, it's actually 158 00:07:42.889 --> 00:07:45.430 a really great documentary. If like, if you're interested in 159 00:07:45.529 --> 00:07:49.610 Roger Patterson and seeing some of the historical photographs and 160 00:07:49.649 --> 00:07:53.180 all that kind of stuff, Daniel Perez, who is a 161 00:07:53.319 --> 00:07:56.160 staunch supporter of the PG film, and I think it's 162 00:07:56.199 --> 00:07:58.699 fair to say is a legitimate expert in the Patterson-Gimlin film, 163 00:07:59.199 --> 00:08:02.290 said he really liked that part of the documentary. So 164 00:08:03.009 --> 00:08:04.790 I'm looking forward to seeing it because I am also 165 00:08:05.430 --> 00:08:09.389 a fan of Bigfoot history. Because remember, Clint Patterson visited 166 00:08:09.410 --> 00:08:11.589 me like a month or two ago in the museum. 167 00:08:11.629 --> 00:08:14.750 We had a wonderful conversation and I spent at least 168 00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:16.399 an hour, probably like an hour and a half or 169 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:19.120 more with the guy. And literally out of that hour, 170 00:08:19.339 --> 00:08:22.569 hour and a half, I would guess less than five 171 00:08:22.709 --> 00:08:28.529 minutes of our conversation, cumulative, even mention the Patterson-Gilman film 172 00:08:28.629 --> 00:08:31.509 or this documentary. We just had so many other things 173 00:08:31.550 --> 00:08:34.970 to speak about because I love Bigfoot history, so I'm 174 00:08:34.990 --> 00:08:35.879 looking forward to seeing it. 175 00:08:36.570 --> 00:08:37.360 Yeah, I want to see it. 176 00:08:38.070 --> 00:08:38.629 For sure. 177 00:08:38.649 --> 00:08:41.970 So I can tear it apart. Yeah, we'll see. 178 00:08:42.110 --> 00:08:44.620 We'll see, you know. Again, I will go wherever the 179 00:08:44.720 --> 00:08:47.759 evidence takes me. Because the evidence brought me to think 180 00:08:47.779 --> 00:08:50.879 that the Sasquatch was real in the PG film. And 181 00:08:50.919 --> 00:08:53.019 if the evidence is there, I will go the other 182 00:08:53.059 --> 00:08:54.399 direction if I need to. I mean, look what I 183 00:08:54.419 --> 00:08:57.379 did to London tracks. I'm on TV saying they're real, right? 184 00:08:57.779 --> 00:09:00.200 But the evidence brought me somewhere else. The egg is 185 00:09:00.259 --> 00:09:02.080 on my face, man. And I'm not afraid to admit 186 00:09:02.100 --> 00:09:06.139 it because that's what good science is. Follow the evidence. 187 00:09:06.440 --> 00:09:10.980 Don't believe what people say. Follow the evidence. So I'm excited. 188 00:09:11.450 --> 00:09:11.940 I'm excited to see it. 189 00:09:11.950 --> 00:09:12.950 I got an egg on my face and all over 190 00:09:12.970 --> 00:09:13.470 my shirt. 191 00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:15.980 Oh, man. Well, you know, you and I were the 192 00:09:16.019 --> 00:09:19.500 kind of people we just eat it off. It's like, oh, 193 00:09:19.620 --> 00:09:25.799 shirt eggs. Love it. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and 194 00:09:25.860 --> 00:09:28.539 beyond with Cliff and Bobo. We'll be right back after 195 00:09:28.580 --> 00:09:29.179 these messages. 196 00:09:35.980 --> 00:09:40.779 There is a voicemail about a previous Bobo statement. So 197 00:09:40.820 --> 00:09:42.779 maybe we can start with that and see if there's 198 00:09:42.820 --> 00:09:44.929 any egg on face or not. If you want to 199 00:09:44.950 --> 00:09:47.690 start with that question for our October 2026 Q & A. 200 00:09:47.809 --> 00:09:50.110 Let's do it. 201 00:09:51.049 --> 00:09:51.509 All righty. 202 00:09:51.549 --> 00:09:55.309 So here is your first voicemail. Hey, Cliff, Bobo and 203 00:09:55.370 --> 00:09:55.909 Matt Pruitt. 204 00:09:56.200 --> 00:09:59.580 This is Matt from Cleveland, Ohio, with another question. 205 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:02.039 So this goes to Bobo again. 206 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:06.340 Bobo, I understand that you were on a Joe Rogan 207 00:10:06.379 --> 00:10:10.230 podcast a long while back, and I remember you were 208 00:10:10.309 --> 00:10:13.470 telling Joe Rogan about Paul Freeman, or you guys were 209 00:10:13.490 --> 00:10:16.090 watching a Paul Freeman video, and then you mentioned that 210 00:10:16.549 --> 00:10:19.509 Paul Freeman had another video that was unreleased where he 211 00:10:19.529 --> 00:10:23.389 gets bluff charged by a big male Sasquatch. Do you 212 00:10:23.429 --> 00:10:26.120 know if that video is available anywhere or is it 213 00:10:26.149 --> 00:10:27.679 permanently gone? 214 00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:29.899 Thank you and keep it Squatchy. 215 00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:34.080 I heard that it never even,

like that wasn't even his. 216 00:10:34.100 --> 00:10:40.799 I saw it at, God, in Portland at Western Bigfoot Society. 217 00:10:40.830 --> 00:10:43.230 I went to their meeting one time back in like 218 00:10:43.250 --> 00:10:47.549 the early 90s. I guess it was like 90 or 91, 219 00:10:47.549 --> 00:10:51.769 and I met Ray Crow, and he had a VHS 220 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:55.860 copy that he said was Freeman, and it looked like 221 00:10:55.980 --> 00:10:59.919 a gorilla. Maybe it was, maybe it was just like 222 00:10:59.940 --> 00:11:03.759 from Africa or something, but he was walking, and the 223 00:11:03.940 --> 00:11:07.669 thing charged him from the right, and it was blurry 224 00:11:07.710 --> 00:11:12.169 and stuff, but it was like 80s video camera technology, 225 00:11:12.210 --> 00:11:15.190 so it wasn't like the best. But then I talked 226 00:11:15.230 --> 00:11:18.470 to Michael, his son, and he said he'd never heard 227 00:11:18.529 --> 00:11:21.309 anything about it. And then what Ray told me was 228 00:11:21.350 --> 00:11:24.789 that Paul would never release it because he panicked so 229 00:11:24.830 --> 00:11:27.370 hard in it and, like, pooed and peed his pants 230 00:11:27.429 --> 00:11:33.320 when it happened. And whoever took the video, it sounded 231 00:11:33.340 --> 00:11:36.539 like him. Then I've talked to other people that said 232 00:11:36.559 --> 00:11:38.759 they'd never even heard anything about it. So I don't know. 233 00:11:38.779 --> 00:11:41.480 Yeah, I've got a couple things to say about that. 234 00:11:41.929 --> 00:11:44.850 whatever it's worth. I think that what is happening here, 235 00:11:44.889 --> 00:11:46.220 I mean, you may have seen a video or something 236 00:11:46.250 --> 00:11:48.659 back in the day that was attributed to Paul Freeman, 237 00:11:48.700 --> 00:11:51.039 but I think that as far as Paul getting bluff 238 00:11:51.100 --> 00:11:54.539 charged and all this other stuff, there was some discrepancy 239 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:58.500 in Paul's account of the deduct footage. He was pretty 240 00:11:58.570 --> 00:12:01.350 scared at that time. He was really scared, actually, at 241 00:12:01.370 --> 00:12:03.870 the time. And that's why I talked to Michael at 242 00:12:03.929 --> 00:12:07.169 great length about this. First of all, the beginning of 243 00:12:07.990 --> 00:12:11.899 Matt from Cleveland's question here is that there's previous footage 244 00:12:12.179 --> 00:12:15.230 there is previous footage taken by paul freeman he got 245 00:12:15.269 --> 00:12:18.649 footage in april of 1992 of a sasquatch but it 246 00:12:18.690 --> 00:12:21.090 was at a great distance on a lousy format camera 247 00:12:21.590 --> 00:12:23.490 and he never released it really i mean it was 248 00:12:23.509 --> 00:12:25.649 shown on the news once or twice and he didn't 249 00:12:25.669 --> 00:12:27.649 like disown it or something but it it was never 250 00:12:27.669 --> 00:12:29.809 it never really made the rounds like the deduct footage 251 00:12:29.870 --> 00:12:32.299 did the deduct footage is the one was oh there 252 00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:34.559 he goes you know that one that's the deduct footage 253 00:12:35.220 --> 00:12:37.159 And I think we should all as a community rally 254 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:39.360 around like calling it the D-Duck footage instead of the 255 00:12:39.399 --> 00:12:41.679 Freeman footage, because there are two pieces of video of 256 00:12:41.720 --> 00:12:45.620 Sasquatches taken by Paul Freeman. So the D-Duck footage, the 257 00:12:45.639 --> 00:12:47.809 thing we all know that it kind of steps out, 258 00:12:47.870 --> 00:12:49.789 it kind of glances over at him. It's called the 259 00:12:49.830 --> 00:12:52.509 head snap, like, you know, and then it goes behind 260 00:12:52.529 --> 00:12:54.230 the tree. It stands there for a moment, goes behind 261 00:12:54.250 --> 00:12:55.990 another tree, and then it walks off to the side. 262 00:12:56.509 --> 00:12:59.269 Paul is pretty discombobulated at the time. He's looking around 263 00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:01.200 for it. He doesn't see it. Turns out he's looking 264 00:13:01.220 --> 00:13:05.059 in the very wrong direction. We've done recreations both at 265 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:08.120 the site and then back home on the computer showing 266 00:13:08.259 --> 00:13:10.179 what direction he was looking at the time. He was 267 00:13:10.259 --> 00:13:13.100 looking in the wrong area for the animal. It wasn't 268 00:13:13.139 --> 00:13:14.679 actually that far away from him. It was probably behind 269 00:13:14.700 --> 00:13:17.799 a tree anyway. And at some point, and I recently, 270 00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:19.899 like last week or the week before, talked to Michael 271 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:23.370 Freeman about this again. At some point, He gets the 272 00:13:23.409 --> 00:13:26.350 camera and he moves forward. And you know, everybody, I 273 00:13:26.750 --> 00:13:29.490 think most people know about the quote unquote baby lift 274 00:13:29.730 --> 00:13:32.090 part where it may or may not be lifting up 275 00:13:32.190 --> 00:13:34.629 a baby at the time because there's these dangly things 276 00:13:34.669 --> 00:13:36.850 that kind of look like feet as the thing walks 277 00:13:36.929 --> 00:13:39.649 away from the camera. Well, it is during that segment, 278 00:13:39.669 --> 00:13:41.429 I believe, that he goes, oh, I guess there's two 279 00:13:41.500 --> 00:13:44.320 of them or something to that effect. We don't know 280 00:13:44.360 --> 00:13:47.080 what kind of camera he used. There are some old 281 00:13:47.200 --> 00:13:49.500 pictures of it. I believe it's a Sony. I have 282 00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:51.870 to go check my records, but that doesn't appear to 283 00:13:51.950 --> 00:13:55.710 have a side viewfinder on it like modern day video 284 00:13:55.730 --> 00:13:57.750 cameras do, you know, where there's like that little TV 285 00:13:57.789 --> 00:13:59.990 screen

that folds out from the side. So that means 286 00:14:00.049 --> 00:14:03.870 Paul was looking through the viewfinder while he was filming 287 00:14:03.909 --> 00:14:07.480 this thing. Now, Michael and I think, you see, because 288 00:14:07.500 --> 00:14:09.399 the story after that is like, oh, there was one 289 00:14:09.500 --> 00:14:11.500 charging at him and it was deformed and it had 290 00:14:11.539 --> 00:14:14.659 this like big, like Quasimodo, a hunchback sort of shape 291 00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:17.139 on it and it was ugly and blah, blah, blah. 292 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:20.840 That was more or less Paul's account of, of what 293 00:14:20.980 --> 00:14:24.019 happened in the newspaper reports for the day after. He 294 00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:26.899 was terrified, right? Which is why I think he probably 295 00:14:26.940 --> 00:14:30.360 exaggerated some of the things and there's some discrepancies in 296 00:14:30.519 --> 00:14:33.519 what he said about the footage after the fact. But 297 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:36.529 if he was looking through that viewfinder as the thing 298 00:14:36.590 --> 00:14:39.549 walked away and he thought that there were two of them, 299 00:14:40.330 --> 00:14:43.549 what Michael and I think happened, and again, I think this, 300 00:14:43.590 --> 00:14:45.289 so I'm going to say I think I'm right about this. 301 00:14:45.370 --> 00:14:49.129 Maybe I'm not. But we think that while the thing 302 00:14:49.149 --> 00:14:51.919 was walking away, It was pretty big. It filled up 303 00:14:51.980 --> 00:14:54.850 a significant portion of the viewfinder, right? Because they're big animals. 304 00:14:55.529 --> 00:14:59.210 We think that he thought it was moving towards him 305 00:14:59.509 --> 00:15:02.389 when it was actually moving away from him. And that 306 00:15:02.570 --> 00:15:08.659 big hunchback sort of disfigurement that he commented on was 307 00:15:08.840 --> 00:15:13.629 actually possibly the juvenile that it picked up. Because it 308 00:15:13.669 --> 00:15:16.669 picked it up and apes, including humans, kind of carry 309 00:15:16.710 --> 00:15:18.779 our babies around, right? So that kind of makes some 310 00:15:18.860 --> 00:15:22.299 sense with what we think might be happening with that 311 00:15:22.340 --> 00:15:25.759 piece of footage. So Paul was terrified at the time. 312 00:15:26.019 --> 00:15:28.820 He was terrified. And it does make sense that if 313 00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:31.480 he's looking through this tiny little viewfinder, that he would 314 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:33.990 mistake the motion of the animal who was actually moving 315 00:15:34.070 --> 00:15:38.659 away from him as moving towards him. Now, Bobo, if 316 00:15:38.740 --> 00:15:40.899 you saw some sort of footage like that, what I 317 00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:43.240 think we have here is all the ingredients of a 318 00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:48.440 misunderstanding that goes into some sort of Bigfoot mythology bucket, 319 00:15:48.820 --> 00:15:51.679 where these things have been propagated around so much, we've 320 00:15:51.700 --> 00:15:55.779 all heard various versions of the same story. Bobo may 321 00:15:55.830 --> 00:15:58.610 have seen some sort of guerrilla footage back in the day. 322 00:15:59.090 --> 00:16:03.480 Paul did, in fact, get previous footage from the deduct footage. 323 00:16:04.019 --> 00:16:07.190 And also he got charged or he thought he got 324 00:16:07.269 --> 00:16:09.929 charged when the thing was actually just walking away at 325 00:16:09.990 --> 00:16:12.549 the deduct site. So I think that what we have 326 00:16:12.610 --> 00:16:16.460 here is a, are the ingredients of a, a Bigfoot 327 00:16:16.500 --> 00:16:20.580 mythology soup. Basically everything went in the pot and you know, 328 00:16:21.100 --> 00:16:24.299 everybody wants, everybody tastes it a little bit different. You 329 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:24.639 know what I mean? 330 00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:27.220 Yeah. Cause this thing was on all fours. It was 331 00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:28.379 charging through the brush. 332 00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:31.409 Yeah. Well, that certainly sounds like a gorilla to me, right? 333 00:16:31.450 --> 00:16:34.100 And Ray Crow, I mean, Ray Crow, he told you himself, 334 00:16:34.169 --> 00:16:36.700 where are your skepticals? You know, when you read the 335 00:16:36.740 --> 00:16:38.799 track record or anything else that he did for that matter. 336 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:41.840 I spent time with Ray Crow a little bit before 337 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:43.299 he died, about a week and a half, two weeks 338 00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:45.500 before he died. And he didn't know if these things 339 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:47.340 were real or not. He just liked the people and 340 00:16:47.379 --> 00:16:49.039 he liked the subject and he thought it was fun 341 00:16:49.090 --> 00:16:51.370 and everything. And it's not like he didn't think they 342 00:16:51.389 --> 00:16:53.049 were real or didn't think they were real for that matter. 343 00:16:53.129 --> 00:16:55.529 Either way, that's not why he was doing it. He 344 00:16:55.549 --> 00:16:58.129 was just throwing everything against the wall to see what stuck, man. 345 00:16:58.730 --> 00:17:01.370 So the other thing about that meeting I went to 346 00:17:01.409 --> 00:17:03.269 was it was like a lot of really old people 347 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:06.599 and like half the meeting was about geology and rocks 348 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:08.839 and people pulling out like gems, you know, like just 349 00:17:08.940 --> 00:17:12.180 stuff they'd found like out, you know, rock picking. 350 00:17:12.920 --> 00:17:13.200 Oh yeah. 351 00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:13.420 Yeah. 352 00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:16.039 Ray Crowe was, I believe he's a pretty prolific rock hound. 353 00:17:16.099 --> 00:17:18.079 He really enjoyed that sort of thing. And Oregon is 354 00:17:18.099 --> 00:17:21.160 fantastic for agates and all sorts of cool little rocks 355

00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:22.990 and stuff. I'm not really a rock hound myself. Don't 356 00:17:23.009 --> 00:17:25.029 know much about it, but I believe that was a 357 00:17:25.089 --> 00:17:27.269 very prevalent theme at those meetings. 358 00:17:28.130 --> 00:17:28.509 Yeah. 359 00:17:29.059 --> 00:17:30.299 I never went to one, but I do have a 360 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:32.220 fair number of them on videotape. 361 00:17:32.819 --> 00:17:33.220 Oh, you do? 362 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:35.099 Yeah, I got a couple of them. Yeah, through the 363 00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:37.299 Freeman Collection. Of course, I'm good friends with Larry Lund. 364 00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:39.640 He recorded a whole lot of those things back in 365 00:17:39.660 --> 00:17:39.980 the day. 366 00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:40.480 And yeah. 367 00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:42.740 I wonder if Larry was there when I was at 368 00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:43.299 that one. 369 00:17:43.940 --> 00:17:44.519 Probably. 370 00:17:45.220 --> 00:17:46.599 Probably. I think he was at most of it. You know, 371 00:17:46.619 --> 00:17:49.319 that's how I met Larry Lund, actually. I was traveling 372 00:17:49.339 --> 00:17:52.400 through the Pacific Northwest back in 1997, and I was 373 00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:55.079 a subscriber to the track record back then. Had been 374 00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:58.059 for years. And so I reached out to Ray Crow 375 00:17:58.119 --> 00:18:00.519 and said, hey, man, I'm one of your subscribers. You 376 00:18:00.539 --> 00:18:02.019 don't know me, but I'm in town. Can I come 377 00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:03.700 by and check out your bookstore and see the stuff 378 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:05.750 you have? And he goes, oh, man, we had a 379 00:18:05.849 --> 00:18:08.170 flood this week. Why don't you, and all this stuff's 380 00:18:08.190 --> 00:18:09.730 over at Larry's house. Why don't you call him to 381 00:18:09.750 --> 00:18:12.210 see if he'd have you over? And I did. And 382 00:18:12.569 --> 00:18:15.250 Larry was apprehensive, understandably. I wouldn't let people come to 383 00:18:15.289 --> 00:18:17.630 my house. But Larry's a nicer guy than I am. 384 00:18:17.809 --> 00:18:19.910 So he let me come over and we spent a 385 00:18:19.930 --> 00:18:22.230 couple hours together and we've been friends ever since. And 386 00:18:22.250 --> 00:18:24.890 that was, God, almost 30 years ago now. 387 00:18:25.109 --> 00:18:25.609 That's insane. 388 00:18:27.450 --> 00:18:30.839 Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. 389 00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:32.710 We'll be right back after these messages. 390 00:18:39.579 --> 00:18:42.900 Speaking of Bluff Creek and related things, here's a good 391 00:18:42.940 --> 00:18:45.720 question for you guys who have experience with Bluff Creek 392 00:18:45.819 --> 00:18:46.539 in all seasons. 393 00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:50.660 Okay, this one comes from Scott Reed. My family and 394 00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:53.900 I live on the South Australian coast and are traveling 395 00:18:53.940 --> 00:18:57.329 to California for the first time in December. We will 396 00:18:57.349 --> 00:18:59.970 be spending a few days in Willow Creek to satisfy 397 00:19:00.009 --> 00:19:05.029 my love and endless curiosity with Bigfoot. We'll visit the museum, 398 00:19:05.069 --> 00:19:08.130 but I'd like to know how best to spend our 399 00:19:08.230 --> 00:19:12.509 time to really explore all things Bigfoot. Looks to me 400 00:19:12.579 --> 00:19:16.259 like getting to Bluff Creek is really difficult, perhaps even risky, 401 00:19:16.579 --> 00:19:20.039 for someone who is unfamiliar with the area. Really love 402 00:19:20.059 --> 00:19:23.279 the show and your scientific and logical approach to the subject. 403 00:19:24.200 --> 00:19:28.490 You go up the go road. the ic like e-y-e-s-e-e 404 00:19:28.569 --> 00:19:30.029 it's also called the gold road because it was going 405 00:19:30.049 --> 00:19:33.529 to be the connector road from gaskey to orleans which 406 00:19:33.569 --> 00:19:38.470 never got finished because of cultural native sites that block 407 00:19:38.970 --> 00:19:42.950 the road construction so it's just like a 27 or 408 00:19:42.950 --> 00:19:45.470 28 mile whatever road that just dead ends out in 409 00:19:45.490 --> 00:19:48.809 the middle of nowhere so you can drive that year-round 410 00:19:48.829 --> 00:19:54.039 if they year, the El Nino is supposed to bring 411 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:57.720 most of the precipitation to the south of us. So 412 00:19:57.740 --> 00:20:01.089 it might be open. Some years it stays open like 413 00:20:01.150 --> 00:20:03.390 almost the whole year, but usually about 14, 12 to 414 00:20:03.390 --> 00:20:08.599 15 miles up. There's snow like drifts and that blocked 415 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:11.180 the whole road. They don't plow it. But even if 416 00:20:11.220 --> 00:20:14.240 you do, if you can get up to above Bluff Creek, 417 00:20:14.380 --> 00:20:16.480 like where you turn off for 12 and 12 and 418 00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:18.099 12 and 13, the roads that take you down to 419 00:20:18.420 --> 00:20:21.380 Louse Camp and all that, they gate that off because 420 00:20:21.420 --> 00:20:25.220 there's a port Orford tree. There's a root rot fungus 421 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:27.980 that's been going around for like 20, 25 years or whatever. 422 00:20:28.539 --> 00:20:32.460 So they lock it off to protect the port Orford 423 00:20:32.579 --> 00:20:35.730 cedar so they don't get this disease. So they gate 424 00:20:35.779 --> 00:20:40.000 it off the 21st of October every year. Or earlier, 425 00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:41.799 if there's heavy, heavy rains, they'll even gate it off 426 00:20:41.819 --> 00:20:47.380 sooner because the disease gets, when the runoff comes off 427 00:20:47.420 --> 00:20:50.130 the hills, it brings it down onto the roads. So 428 00:20:50.190 --> 00:20:53.529 once it starts really heavy rain, like the first big rain, 429 00:20:53.549 -->

00:20:56.049 heavy rainstorm, they'll gate it off. 430 00:20:56.809 --> 00:20:59.809 But gosh, the Willow Creek Museum is in itself worth 431 00:20:59.829 --> 00:21:02.319 the visit, man. It's a great little museum with amazing 432 00:21:02.380 --> 00:21:03.660 historical artifacts in there. 433 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:04.720 Yeah. 434 00:21:05.579 --> 00:21:07.799 And no, you're only seven or eight hours from my 435 00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:08.500 museum as well. 436 00:21:09.259 --> 00:21:11.380 Oh, Cliff's museum blows that one away. 437 00:21:11.859 --> 00:21:14.599 Oh, well, in a different way. We present things differently. 438 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:16.880 And also, for whatever it's worth, I've been working with 439 00:21:16.940 --> 00:21:19.319 the Willow Creek Museum. And from what I understand, this 440 00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:20.660 is the winter where they're going to be doing a 441 00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:23.119 pretty big renovation. I'm going to be helping them as 442 00:21:23.220 --> 00:21:27.210 much as they want. on their renovation and helping them 443 00:21:27.630 --> 00:21:30.690 however I can with artifacts, with the information, with the 444 00:21:31.089 --> 00:21:34.769 stuff that I have that is about that area. You know, 445 00:21:34.789 --> 00:21:37.900 like those Bob Titmuss photographs from 1963 with the high 446 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:41.019 and bomb tracks in the ground and amazing stuff is 447 00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:43.420 going to be on display at the Willow Creek Museum. 448 00:21:43.460 --> 00:21:46.009 So I strongly encourage you to take a visit over 449 00:21:46.029 --> 00:21:47.029 there and give them your support. 450 00:21:47.670 --> 00:21:49.410 Oh yeah, it's worth, oh, it's definitely worth going to 451 00:21:49.450 --> 00:21:52.210 the Yeah, yours is, I mean, if you're coming from 452 00:21:52.269 --> 00:21:54.450 South Australia and you go to Willow Creek, you definitely 453 00:21:54.470 --> 00:21:55.789 got to make it up to Boring. 454 00:21:56.490 --> 00:21:57.880 I dare say it might be worth the trip. 455 00:21:58.740 --> 00:22:02.180 Yep, it is. I'm not just saying that because you're 456 00:22:02.220 --> 00:22:04.000 sitting here. I mean, it's awesome. 457 00:22:04.019 --> 00:22:06.000 I can go sit somewhere else and see if you 458 00:22:06.019 --> 00:22:06.500 still say it. 459 00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:12.390 Yeah, you drive up as far as, I mean, whatever, 460 00:22:12.609 --> 00:22:15.089 go to Orleans, go up the go road, just go 461 00:22:15.109 --> 00:22:17.049 as far as you can. Then, you know, until you 462 00:22:17.069 --> 00:22:19.519 hit the snow drifts, you can't get past And then 463 00:22:19.700 --> 00:22:22.019 you'll get, it's the same, I mean, once you get there, 464 00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:25.039 you don't have to get to Bluff Creek. It's the 465 00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:30.809 same geology, you know, around there, and trees, and it's all, 466 00:22:31.130 --> 00:22:32.089 you get the idea. 467 00:22:32.109 --> 00:22:34.789 Yeah, yeah, and it's a different thing altogether if you 468 00:22:34.829 --> 00:22:36.369 want to go to the site or the film site 469 00:22:36.390 --> 00:22:37.650 or something. But, you know, why don't you just go 470 00:22:37.670 --> 00:22:40.910 to the, Highway 96 will probably be open, and there's 471 00:22:40.950 --> 00:22:43.000 a really cool sign that says Bluff Creek as you 472 00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:45.240 go over it. Just go take your pictures there and stuff, 473 00:22:45.259 --> 00:22:47.700 and then you've been to Bluff Creek. Crawl down the cliff, 474 00:22:47.740 --> 00:22:49.279 touch the water, dunk your head in there. It'd be 475 00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:51.019 really cold, but at least you baptize yourself. 476 00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:52.240 Roll around naked. 477 00:22:52.819 --> 00:22:53.579 Yeah, I've done it. 478 00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:55.460 Yeah, you got to. 479 00:22:55.980 --> 00:22:56.180 Yeah. 480 00:22:56.799 --> 00:22:59.160 Yeah, Cliff took me to the film site and Tyler 481 00:22:59.180 --> 00:23:00.720 and I got in this big pool and Cliff had 482 00:23:00.769 --> 00:23:02.930 mentioned like, oh yeah, I ran into some geologist down 483 00:23:02.990 --> 00:23:05.650 here who said this water was like really pristine and clean. 484 00:23:06.250 --> 00:23:08.390 So Tyler and I were in our skivvies swimming in 485 00:23:08.410 --> 00:23:11.230 the creek and just drinking right out of the water, 486 00:23:11.349 --> 00:23:12.869 you know, and I was filling up my Nalgene and 487 00:23:12.890 --> 00:23:14.589 drinking it and Cliff was like, what are you guys doing? 488 00:23:14.630 --> 00:23:16.599 And we were like, Well, you said you met some 489 00:23:16.619 --> 00:23:19.420 geologist who said the water was pristine. And Cliff's like, yeah, 490 00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:23.509 but I didn't say I believed him. But we didn't 491 00:23:23.549 --> 00:23:24.569 get sick, thankfully. 492 00:23:25.210 --> 00:23:27.109 I drink that water all the time. It's fine. 493 00:23:27.869 --> 00:23:30.230 Yeah, but you also have street food in Vietnam and 494 00:23:30.250 --> 00:23:31.990 stuff like that and rarely get sick from that sort 495 00:23:32.029 --> 00:23:33.170 of thing, except for Nepal. 496 00:23:33.849 --> 00:23:34.170 Yeah. 497 00:23:34.549 --> 00:23:37.890 Yeah, you have an iron constitution for whatever it's worth. Yeah. 498 00:23:38.930 --> 00:23:39.490 I train. 499 00:23:40.980 --> 00:23:43.880 I train by eating disgusting food all the time that 500 00:23:43.900 --> 00:23:47.890 should be thrown out. I had that problem with Melissa, man. Like, oh, 501 00:23:47.930 --> 00:23:50.109 this was put in the fridge two days ago. It's 502 00:23:50.150 --> 00:23:53.130 not good anymore. It's like, oh, you've never been like 503 00:23:53.190 --> 00:23:56.430 a single man living alone, have you, my wife? 504 00:23:57.279 --> 00:23:58.470 Korea's the same way. 505 00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:01.380 Yeah,

well, I guess once you get sick doing, you know, 506 00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:03.299 eating food out of the fridge that's a little bit old, 507 00:24:03.339 --> 00:24:05.140 you just, you never do it again and you err 508 00:24:05.180 --> 00:24:06.119 on the side of caution. 509 00:24:06.980 --> 00:24:08.720 You'd think. Yep. 510 00:24:10.660 --> 00:24:13.250 Here is a fun one for you. And so here 511 00:24:13.269 --> 00:24:14.109 it is for you below. 512 00:24:14.869 --> 00:24:17.819 Gary White Hi, Cliff and Bolo. Do you hear from 513 00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:23.200 famous people about their Bigfoot sightings? Um, I know I have, 514 00:24:23.220 --> 00:24:26.000 but like, not like, not, I mean, who was it? 515 00:24:26.259 --> 00:24:29.640 I've heard a couple people. Oh, I can't think right now, 516 00:24:29.660 --> 00:24:33.390 but yeah, there's not like a great, not like great sightings. 517 00:24:34.170 --> 00:24:34.930 What about you, Cliff? 518 00:24:35.509 --> 00:24:38.369 I can't think of anybody really who's quote unquote famous 519 00:24:39.029 --> 00:24:42.309 to the general public that has shared with me, honestly. 520 00:24:42.329 --> 00:24:44.710 You know, because my idea of fame is a little 521 00:24:44.750 --> 00:24:45.589 different than most people's. 522 00:24:45.940 --> 00:24:47.569 But yeah. Yeah. 523 00:24:47.589 --> 00:24:49.950 My idea of fame is like, Oh, I know you 524 00:24:49.970 --> 00:24:53.049 through Bigfoot land because you saw a Sasquatch and tell 525 00:24:53.069 --> 00:24:54.950 me about it. You know, then, then yes. You know, 526 00:24:55.009 --> 00:24:57.549 like Derek Randall's of course, you know. 527 00:24:58.329 --> 00:25:01.640 They're not even, I mean, they're not even really famous, but, uh, the, 528 00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:04.099 the weirdos, the old punk rock band from the seventies 529 00:25:04.140 --> 00:25:07.359 and early eighties, those guys had a, I never got 530 00:25:07.400 --> 00:25:08.720 to talk to them then, but I talked to like 531 00:25:09.140 --> 00:25:10.759 people that know them really well and that were on 532 00:25:10.779 --> 00:25:13.259 the tour with them. They saw that one. The whole 533 00:25:13.299 --> 00:25:17.289 band saw it. Like at 7.30 in the morning, right 534 00:25:17.309 --> 00:25:20.569 by Ani Nuevo State Park on Highway 1, north of 535 00:25:20.589 --> 00:25:23.930 Santa Cruz. Those guys had a setting that they talked 536 00:25:23.970 --> 00:25:26.950 about on the radio and was kind of like picked up. 537 00:25:27.170 --> 00:25:30.279 I think it was 82 or 83, 84, somewhere in there. 538 00:25:30.299 --> 00:25:33.400 And that got picked up and it was like a 539 00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:36.500 little minor news story. I was with Bob Saget when 540 00:25:36.519 --> 00:25:37.220 he heard one. 541 00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:38.559 That's got to count. 542 00:25:39.180 --> 00:25:43.420 And Bobcat, go away. You heard that one in New Jersey. Yeah. 543 00:25:43.789 --> 00:25:46.309 Yeah.

Well, hopefully that answers the question, Gary. 544 00:25:47.190 --> 00:25:48.369 I mean, I know you guys get a lot of 545 00:25:48.410 --> 00:25:51.250 like famous people who express their interest in the subject 546 00:25:51.269 --> 00:25:53.990 to you or famous people who come in the NABC. 547 00:25:54.029 --> 00:25:56.829 But yeah, as far as having sightings, like you just 548 00:25:56.869 --> 00:25:58.009 don't hear about that. 549 00:25:58.230 --> 00:25:59.930 I guess if you're I don't know. 550 00:25:59.970 --> 00:26:01.829 I guess if you were a famous person, I mean, 551 00:26:01.849 --> 00:26:04.329 you know, John Lennon famously saw a UFO and talked 552 00:26:04.369 --> 00:26:07.829 about it very publicly. There's a TV interview about it, 553 00:26:07.869 --> 00:26:10.079 and then he incorporated it into the artwork. I think 554 00:26:10.099 --> 00:26:12.440 it was the Walls and Bridges album that he put 555 00:26:12.519 --> 00:26:14.700 the little UFO in the album artwork and stuff. So 556 00:26:15.220 --> 00:26:18.680 I guess if you're the artistic type, you're probably more 557 00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:21.920 likely to talk about strange things that you've witnessed, but 558 00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:27.450 maybe not for public intellectuals or politicians or people like that. 559 00:26:28.359 --> 00:26:29.980 Well, you know, today I got a, this isn't really 560 00:26:30.140 --> 00:26:33.380 on topic, but it's kind of parallel, is today I 561 00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:37.529 heard from the Forest Service about a report given to 562 00:26:37.589 --> 00:26:40.930 another ranger station. So I was zipping up there a 563 00:26:41.130 --> 00:26:44.150 little bit earlier today to track down the biologists who 564 00:26:44.190 --> 00:26:47.170 took the report. And I went to the office and 565 00:26:47.319 --> 00:26:49.160 asked about it and they said, oh, I think that 566 00:26:49.180 --> 00:26:52.140 was so-and-so or whatever. He's, you know, he's the biologist here. 567 00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:53.799 Is he here right now? No, no, he's not here. 568 00:26:54.059 --> 00:26:56.400 But I got his phone number and address. So Monday morning, 569 00:26:56.440 --> 00:26:59.299 I'll be checking in with this particular Forest Service worker 570 00:26:59.779 --> 00:27:02.460 to find out about the recent Sasquatch report that was 571 00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:06.220 given to this particular district. So, you know, well, I'll 572 00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:08.119 find out more about it next week and maybe I'll 573 00:27:08.140 --> 00:27:09.420 be able to talk about it a little bit then. 574 00:27:09.500 --> 00:27:11.200 But so we'll see. 575 00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:11.779 We'll see. 576 00:27:12.500 --> 00:27:14.059 But again, there goes that idea. It's like, oh, they're 577 00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:15.680 hiding it from us. It's like, no, man, the Forest 578 00:27:15.700 --> 00:27:18.079 Service is telling me about it and cooperating. I don't 579 00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:21.250 buy it. That's what they want you to think. Yeah, 580 00:27:21.289 --> 00:27:24.309 they're setting me up. Exactly. They're setting me up for 581 00:27:24.329 --> 00:27:27.049 the big fall. Yeah, I don't think so. These people 582 00:27:27.069 --> 00:27:29.309 are awfully sweet and kind and didn't know I was 583 00:27:29.349 --> 00:27:30.589 coming and all that other stuff. 584 00:27:31.670 --> 00:27:33.170 They're too low level to be in on it. 585 00:27:34.119 --> 00:27:39.240 Clearly. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff 586 00:27:39.259 --> 00:27:48.640 and Bobo. We'll be right back after these messages. Well, 587 00:27:48.859 --> 00:27:51.759 I will play the next voicemail for you. There's a 588 00:27:51.809 --> 00:27:54.349 couple of questions in this one. And so here's your 589 00:27:54.369 --> 00:27:58.990 next voicemail from Larry. Hey, Cliff, Bobo, and Matt. This 590 00:27:59.089 --> 00:28:00.269 is Larry from the St. 591 00:28:00.309 --> 00:28:00.950 Louis area. 592 00:28:01.630 --> 00:28:04.910 I was just wondering if any of you had seen 593 00:28:04.990 --> 00:28:08.470 an article that just came out in Popular Mechanics about 594 00:28:08.549 --> 00:28:15.190 locals having seen hairy ape-like man creatures, but now scientists 595 00:28:15.490 --> 00:28:19.609 in wherever this was in the world have discovered bones. 596 00:28:20.230 --> 00:28:22.990 Be interested to hear what you guys have to say. 597 00:28:23.430 --> 00:28:27.390 And also, I understand that Gareth Patterson passed away, but 598 00:28:27.430 --> 00:28:31.059 I wondered if, before that happened, if you had any 599 00:28:31.130 --> 00:28:34.420 more information from him on what he might have found 600 00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:39.599 down in Southeastern Africa. Anyway, just wanted to ask you 601 00:28:39.640 --> 00:28:42.480 guys about that and keep up the good work. You 602 00:28:42.519 --> 00:28:44.119 guys do a fantastic job. 603 00:28:44.920 --> 00:28:48.000 I think the Popular Mechanics article he's referencing is a 604 00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:52.109 sort of like re-publication of their article about Homo floresiensis 605 00:28:52.430 --> 00:28:55.950 and Gregory Ford's work about, you know, the potential survival 606 00:28:56.109 --> 00:28:59.509 of the little diminutive ape-like creatures that he wrote about 607 00:28:59.609 --> 00:29:00.150 in his book. 608 00:29:00.710 --> 00:29:03.559 Was it called Between Ape and Human? Yeah, I think so. 609 00:29:04.230 --> 00:29:06.609 Yeah, so there is an article that's saying like, oh, 610 00:29:06.650 --> 00:29:09.089 there are people in these areas that still claim to 611 00:29:09.150 --> 00:29:10.890 see these things. And it happens to be the same 612 00:29:10.950 --> 00:29:13.880 area that the bones of Homo floresiensis were found. So 613 00:29:13.890 --> 00:29:16.500 I think that's probably the Popular Mechanics article that he's 614 00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:20.440 referring to there. So we did

hear about that, Larry. 615 00:29:20.460 --> 00:29:22.960 We had the author of that book, Gregory Forth, on 616 00:29:22.980 --> 00:29:24.740 the podcast in the past. So you can just dig 617 00:29:24.779 --> 00:29:26.220 back through old episodes. 618 00:29:25.839 --> 00:29:26.990 And find that one. 619 00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:28.960 He's done a few interviews too. So if you're interested 620 00:29:28.980 --> 00:29:32.079 in that subject, definitely read his book or find him elsewhere. 621 00:29:32.099 --> 00:29:35.910 And then as for Gareth, I hadn't gotten any O-Tongue 622 00:29:35.990 --> 00:29:38.630 specific updates. You know, we would keep in touch, especially on, 623 00:29:38.630 --> 00:29:40.980 you know, when you get the Facebook notifications about like 624 00:29:41.019 --> 00:29:43.400 birthdays or holidays or things like that, you know, I'd 625 00:29:43.460 --> 00:29:45.339 get a message from him or I'd send him a message, 626 00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:48.200 but it's a huge loss. And I would love to 627 00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:50.660 know what he had been up to since, you know, 628 00:29:50.720 --> 00:29:53.380 his last publication. I think he was writing a follow-up 629 00:29:53.460 --> 00:29:56.640 to Beyond the Secret Elephants, but who knows if we'll 630 00:29:56.660 --> 00:29:57.259 ever get to see that. 631 00:29:57.299 --> 00:29:59.029 You guys heard anything at all or kept in touch? 632 00:29:59.829 --> 00:30:03.990 I mean, I was keeping in touch with him. And then, yeah, 633 00:30:04.150 --> 00:30:07.009 I got an email, like just a two-line email from 634 00:30:07.069 --> 00:30:11.109 his girlfriend, partner, whatever, that said that he'd passed away. 635 00:30:11.130 --> 00:30:13.230 So I had written to him and I didn't hear 636 00:30:13.269 --> 00:30:17.349 anything back from him. A few weeks later, I got 637 00:30:17.369 --> 00:30:19.869 a two-line sentence from her. And then I wrote back saying, 638 00:30:19.890 --> 00:30:22.910 you know, just sorry. You know, like, did he have, 639 00:30:23.210 --> 00:30:25.190 you know, was there anything that he, and I never 640 00:30:25.210 --> 00:30:26.339 heard back anything else. 641 00:30:27.180 --> 00:30:28.220 Yeah, it was a huge loss. 642 00:30:28.299 --> 00:30:30.200 So that'd be another one I would encourage people to 643 00:30:30.220 --> 00:30:32.519 go back and listen to our interview with Gareth Patterson. 644 00:30:32.740 --> 00:30:35.559 I interviewed him on the Apes Among Us podcast as well. 645 00:30:35.700 --> 00:30:37.680 He did a few interviews. He did a great interview 646 00:30:37.779 --> 00:30:41.640 with Alex Petikoff on Alex's YouTube live stream. So that 647 00:30:41.660 --> 00:30:43.839 would be worth checking out too. But definitely read his book, 648 00:30:43.880 --> 00:30:44.900 Beyond the Secret Elephants. 649 00:30:45.460 --> 00:30:49.039 Yeah, Dr. Forsbrook was between ape and human, an anthropologist 650 00:30:49.099 --> 00:30:52.640 on a trail of a hidden

hominoid. Indeed. 651 00:30:53.480 --> 00:30:56.440 So here is a fun anecdote. I guess it's a 652 00:30:56.480 --> 00:31:00.910 hypothetical or maybe this is practical information for our Canadian colleagues. 653 00:31:00.990 --> 00:31:03.630 So here is the next one for you there, Cliff. 654 00:31:04.430 --> 00:31:08.230 Okay, it is from Francine Fung. If one had a 655 00:31:08.329 --> 00:31:12.150 Sasquatch body in Canada, how would one get it to 656 00:31:12.250 --> 00:31:14.829 Darby or the NABC safely? 657 00:31:15.650 --> 00:31:19.960 Contact your local drug dealers and have them smuggle it across. Yeah, 658 00:31:19.980 --> 00:31:22.460 I guess so. They're smuggling stuff across the borders all 659 00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:22.920 the time. 660 00:31:23.839 --> 00:31:26.519 I'm not sure what to do in Canada, honestly. I'm 661 00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:29.059 not sure, because it would be very weird to bring 662 00:31:29.099 --> 00:31:32.299 that one across the border. You know what? The most practical, 663 00:31:32.440 --> 00:31:34.579 simple answer is contact Darby. 664 00:31:35.220 --> 00:31:36.339 Have him come up there. 665 00:31:36.619 --> 00:31:41.809 Yeah, he's associated with an institution. And the NABC, as 666 00:31:42.309 --> 00:31:45.289 a nice little museum that we have there, it's not 667 00:31:45.309 --> 00:31:48.430 the same as a university. The university can do all 668 00:31:48.490 --> 00:31:51.849 sorts of things that private little institutions like the NABC cannot, simply. 669 00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:54.099 You ain't taking it out of the country. There's no 670 00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:55.420 way they're going to let you take it out of 671 00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:58.329 the country. It's going to stay in Canada if they 672 00:31:58.349 --> 00:31:59.619 find out about it, for sure. 673 00:31:59.980 --> 00:32:02.470 I would imagine so. Yeah, their universities would want to 674 00:32:02.509 --> 00:32:05.609 take control of it. And why wouldn't they, right? Of 675 00:32:05.650 --> 00:32:07.849 course that's what would happen. Of course that would happen. 676 00:32:08.269 --> 00:32:10.349 But I think that you would try to get it to, 677 00:32:10.789 --> 00:32:13.269 you would at least try to consult Darby to see 678 00:32:13.309 --> 00:32:16.730 what he could do about it, you know? And I'm sure, 679 00:32:17.009 --> 00:32:20.210 you know, the academic world is very small. You know, 680 00:32:20.230 --> 00:32:22.269 there's a lot of academics and PhDs out there, but 681 00:32:22.369 --> 00:32:23.950 they all seem to know each other or go to 682 00:32:23.990 --> 00:32:27.210 conferences together. It's kind of like the Bigfoot community, even 683 00:32:27.250 --> 00:32:29.690 down to, like, the nastiness between individuals as well, I 684 00:32:29.730 --> 00:32:32.809 might add. There's a lot of competition and backstabbing and 685 00:32:32.849 --> 00:32:37.819 stuff in all human communities. And, of course, why? Because humans. 686 00:32:38.259 --> 00:32:39.339 We're just kind of like that, right? 687 00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:42.200 Make a finger, take a toe. 688 00:32:43.059 --> 00:32:47.339 Darby would certainly know somebody internationally, and he could steer 689 00:32:47.380 --> 00:32:50.279 you to the right location, I would imagine. That's what 690 00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:53.140 I would do. Just call him and see what's up. 691 00:32:53.220 --> 00:32:55.140 And it's like, hey, this is a situation. But I 692 00:32:55.140 --> 00:32:57.190 don't think you'd try to smuggle the body out. That 693 00:32:57.210 --> 00:33:00.990 would invite all sorts of legal issues upon you, and 694 00:33:01.029 --> 00:33:01.829 nobody wants that. 695 00:33:01.849 --> 00:33:03.049 Yeah. 696 00:33:03.930 --> 00:33:07.230 Well, given the answer Bobo just threw out, that is 697 00:33:07.269 --> 00:33:10.140 a great segue into this next question. So it is 698 00:33:10.220 --> 00:33:11.640 up there now for you, Bobes. 699 00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:15.720 Wesley O'Quinn. If time was very crucial and you only 700 00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:18.319 had time to take one, what would be more scientifically 701 00:33:18.380 --> 00:33:21.200 beneficial if you came across a dead Bigfoot in the woods? 702 00:33:21.420 --> 00:33:25.279 Its head, hand, or foot? I think its head, yeah. 703 00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:28.210 Yeah, the head for sure. Well, you learn a lot 704 00:33:28.250 --> 00:33:31.029 about it in the sort of way that paleoanthropologists study 705 00:33:31.109 --> 00:33:36.470 other extinct or possibly extinct hominins. So many of the 706 00:33:36.509 --> 00:33:40.500 hominins are identified basically by their dentition that you would 707 00:33:40.599 --> 00:33:44.309 want to have their teeth, essentially. And if we had 708 00:33:44.329 --> 00:33:47.150 the jaws and teeth, that would tell us immediately if 709 00:33:47.230 --> 00:33:51.650 it's gigantopithecine or if it's pranthropine or australopithecine or what. 710 00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:56.799 You know, it would solve a lot of questions right away, basically. Yeah, 711 00:33:56.819 --> 00:33:58.920 so the head, but of course the head, out of 712 00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:01.039 all three of those body parts, head, hand, or feet, 713 00:34:01.380 --> 00:34:03.259 the head would be by far the hardest thing to 714 00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:05.849 get out, I think. I could be wrong about that. Maybe, 715 00:34:05.869 --> 00:34:07.990 you know, with a good bone saw or whatever, like 716 00:34:08.070 --> 00:34:12.369 any three, any one of those three would be equally easy-hard. 717 00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:16.230 But the head would be the most informative, I think, 718 00:34:16.369 --> 00:34:17.949 by far. Oh, yeah. 719 00:34:18.030 --> 00:34:20.570 If you had eyes and, you know, the brain, I mean, 720 00:34:20.750 --> 00:34:22.389 if you had all of that, you'd be able to 721 00:34:22.429 --> 00:34:25.030 learn a whole lot about these things just from that 722

00:34:25.329 --> 00:34:28.119 one bit. You know, you wouldn't learn nearly as much 723 00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:31.079 from a hand or a foot in terms of just 724 00:34:31.119 --> 00:34:33.679 an overall knowledge base that you could build about like 725 00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:36.440 certain organs and their functions and what they might be 726 00:34:36.579 --> 00:34:40.289 morphologically similar to or functionally similar to, etc. So, but yeah, 727 00:34:40.309 --> 00:34:41.489 you better have a big backpack. 728 00:34:42.349 --> 00:34:44.289 Yeah, it'd be huge. It'd be really, really big, man. 729 00:34:44.309 --> 00:34:46.210 It'd be like the size of a, at least the 730 00:34:46.269 --> 00:34:48.309 size of a sizable desk printer. 731 00:34:49.090 --> 00:34:49.389 Oh yeah. 732 00:34:49.469 --> 00:34:51.239 Like you hear a lot of people say it was 733 00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:53.760 the size of a five gallon bucket. I've heard that 734 00:34:53.820 --> 00:34:57.179 comparison several times. So I think that's a good starting point. 735 00:34:57.460 --> 00:35:02.469 So imagine a five gallon bucket filled with like heavy goo. 736 00:35:03.389 --> 00:35:05.590 You know, it'd be heavier than water, I'm sure. But 737 00:35:05.869 --> 00:35:08.849 it'd probably be like a five gallon bucket filled with Jell-O. 738 00:35:09.389 --> 00:35:10.329 And can you imagine the mess? 739 00:35:11.320 --> 00:35:14.719 Yeah, that'd be pretty gnarly, but small price to pay. 740 00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:16.590 Still wouldn't want to do it. 741 00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:19.960 No, but just make sure you got a great big 742 00:35:20.019 --> 00:35:22.480 backpack or some way to carry it. And I think 743 00:35:22.539 --> 00:35:26.300 we would learn so much from the head about what 744 00:35:26.519 --> 00:35:30.179 are the capabilities of their vision in daytime, in nighttime. 745 00:35:31.030 --> 00:35:33.349 From the dentition, like you said, you would learn so much, 746 00:35:33.429 --> 00:35:37.110 not just from like stable isotope analysis of teeth and bones, 747 00:35:37.150 --> 00:35:40.079 but like their enamel thickness and then microwear on the teeth, 748 00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:42.699 you'd learn a lot about like what they're eating, what 749 00:35:42.739 --> 00:35:44.719 that individual has been eating in the last weeks or 750 00:35:44.780 --> 00:35:47.239 months that would have left, you know, scarring or scratching 751 00:35:47.300 --> 00:35:50.739 on the teeth. What like material or matter is still 752 00:35:50.889 --> 00:35:55.510 embedded in or in between teeth. You just learn so, so, 753 00:35:55.610 --> 00:35:57.849 so much. So you got to go for the head. 754 00:35:57.869 --> 00:36:02.190 And so I know you guys love these hypotheticals. 755 00:36:02.210 --> 00:36:03.840 We're full of love. 756 00:36:04.579 --> 00:36:07.000 I know we often get bogged down in the semantics, 757 00:36:07.019 --> 00:36:09.199 but I think this one's pretty straightforward. So here's your 758 00:36:09.239 --> 00:36:10.550 next written question clip. 759 00:36:11.179 --> 00:36:11.469 Okay. 760 00:36:11.510 --> 00:36:15.630 It's from Alex Waltenboe or Waltenboe. I don't know. Either way, Alex. 761 00:36:16.250 --> 00:36:18.590 Hey guys, if you could go back in time to 762 00:36:18.610 --> 00:36:22.250 the beginning of your careers as researchers, what would you 763 00:36:22.289 --> 00:36:22.909 do differently? 764 00:36:22.929 --> 00:36:25.679 See, I think if I could go back in time, 765 00:36:25.929 --> 00:36:29.500 the question implies that like you go back, you know, 766 00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:32.409 if I knew then what I know now, So if 767 00:36:32.489 --> 00:36:34.210 I went back in time, I would just go to 768 00:36:34.329 --> 00:36:36.989 all the places that I had the highest confidence in 769 00:36:37.070 --> 00:36:39.070 that I've gotten reports from. And I would just try 770 00:36:39.110 --> 00:36:41.590 to be hidden there when the thing happened. So if 771 00:36:41.690 --> 00:36:44.949 I knew, for example, like a half a mile or 772 00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:46.599 so from the house I grew up in, and I 773 00:36:46.619 --> 00:36:48.610 was living there at the time because I was 17, 774 00:36:48.599 --> 00:36:51.659 there's this great road crossing sighting that happened on the 775 00:36:51.739 --> 00:36:55.099 evening of Thanksgiving in 1999. I would just go down 776 00:36:55.139 --> 00:36:57.860 and sit on that hillside with a camcorder and just 777 00:36:57.920 --> 00:37:01.619 wait and wait. Every time a car starts to approach, 778 00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:03.960 I hit record until it's the right one. And if 779 00:37:04.019 --> 00:37:07.440 that event was true, then I'd have this great footage 780 00:37:07.480 --> 00:37:10.579 of a Sasquatch crossing the road, being bathed in light 781 00:37:10.619 --> 00:37:13.500 from the car headlights and stopping in the standstill when 782 00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:15.380 the car slams on its brakes. And I'd have a 783 00:37:15.409 --> 00:37:19.389 good 30 seconds, a minute, however long of footage. That's 784 00:37:19.429 --> 00:37:20.889 what I would do if I could go back in 785 00:37:20.929 --> 00:37:24.329 time is just try to capture or attempt to capture 786 00:37:24.389 --> 00:37:27.829 moments that I have confidence in that were probably real. 787 00:37:28.579 --> 00:37:30.619 Oh, yeah. We did that lady on Finding Bigfoot. 788 00:37:31.519 --> 00:37:34.440 Absolutely. Yeah, that is like, if I walked out the 789 00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:35.840 back door of the house I grew up in, I 790 00:37:35.860 --> 00:37:37.230 could be in that spot in minutes. 791 00:37:37.309 --> 00:37:38.610 I mean, it's very, very close. 792 00:37:38.789 --> 00:37:41.050 And I could just go sit up on the hill 793 00:37:41.170 --> 00:37:43.710 and watch that exact spot and know exactly where it crossed. 794 00:37:44.750 --> 00:37:46.570 So that's what I would do, Alex, if I could 795 00:37:46.610 -->

00:37:47.989 go back in time, is I would just try to, 796 00:37:48.010 --> 00:37:50.860 you know, it'd be like back to the future, going 797 00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:54.039 back in time, knowing winning lottery numbers or betting on, 798 00:37:54.179 --> 00:37:56.840 you know, a some sporting event that you knew what 799 00:37:56.880 --> 00:37:58.219 the outcome was going to be. It's like, well, if 800 00:37:58.280 --> 00:38:00.179 I know that there's a good chance that Sasquatch is 801 00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:02.719 going to be at this place on this day and time, 802 00:38:03.090 --> 00:38:04.429 I'm just going to post up there and try to 803 00:38:04.489 --> 00:38:07.489 capture it. And so if you knew 10 or 12 804 00:38:07.489 --> 00:38:10.190 or 15 of those stories and you could anticipate those, 805 00:38:10.389 --> 00:38:12.489 and even if only one or two are real, you'd 806 00:38:12.510 --> 00:38:15.590 still have more and better Sasquatch footage than anybody else. 807 00:38:15.909 --> 00:38:18.889 So that's what I would do. That's probably not his question. 808 00:38:18.909 --> 00:38:21.590 He probably wants to know like, What mistakes we made 809 00:38:21.690 --> 00:38:25.469 or what things we can do differently. So to answer that, honestly, 810 00:38:25.610 --> 00:38:29.050 I would say the moments when I had activity, I 811 00:38:29.110 --> 00:38:34.159 would probably be throwing everything I possibly had at trying 812 00:38:34.179 --> 00:38:38.000 to document and chase down that activity. Because when you're 813 00:38:38.019 --> 00:38:40.840 young and interesting things happen, you just kind of bask 814 00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:43.840 in the moment. You're a bit shocked or surprised. And 815 00:38:43.900 --> 00:38:47.340 so maybe you're not frozen in place, but you're not 816 00:38:47.389 --> 00:38:51.690 being hyper proactive about trying to document every second of it. 817 00:38:51.699 --> 00:38:53.239 Or if you had a camera, you know, chasing it 818 00:38:53.260 --> 00:38:55.489 through the woods, trying to catch a glimpse. And I 819 00:38:55.530 --> 00:38:58.670 think too, when you get into the subject and you 820 00:38:58.710 --> 00:39:01.789 accept its reality and you start having experiences here and there, 821 00:39:02.110 --> 00:39:04.070 you kind of assume, oh, it's always going to be 822 00:39:04.090 --> 00:39:06.630 like this. I'm going to have activity almost like every 823 00:39:06.710 --> 00:39:09.289 other time or every one out of every three times 824 00:39:09.349 --> 00:39:11.170 I go out and you don't realize like, no, you 825 00:39:11.210 --> 00:39:13.309 just got lucky and it might be five more years 826 00:39:13.369 --> 00:39:15.769 before you get lucky again. So I would have been 827 00:39:16.510 --> 00:39:20.420 in hindsight, a whole lot more proactive about treating every 828 00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:24.150 one of those events like they were so extremely rare 829 00:39:24.190 --> 00:39:27.280 and they might never happen again, rather than saying, oh, well, well, 830 00:39:27.320 --> 00:39:29.280 better luck next time. We'll just come back next week, 831 00:39:29.300 --> 00:39:29.559 you know? 832 00:39:29.579 --> 00:39:33.019 Yeah, I think if we're talking about general bifurcations of 833 00:39:33.059 --> 00:39:35.900 the timeline and what I might, how I might approach 834 00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:39.639 my pathway a little bit different. Number one, I would 835 00:39:39.969 --> 00:39:43.949 probably have tried to work with other people that I 836 00:39:44.010 --> 00:39:48.429 respect earlier because I started Bigfooting in about 94 or 837 00:39:48.570 --> 00:39:51.500 something like that. And I didn't really do anything with 838 00:39:51.559 --> 00:39:55.519 any other Bigfooters until like 2000 or 2001. I don't 839 00:39:56.440 --> 00:39:58.760 know how I ran across Tom Yamarone and those guys, 840 00:39:58.780 --> 00:40:01.710 but like Tom was really instrumental in getting me involved 841 00:40:01.750 --> 00:40:05.349 with Kathy Strain and Bob Strain and starting meeting other Bigfooters. 842 00:40:05.909 --> 00:40:08.909 So I didn't progress very quickly in my knowledge. 843 00:40:08.929 --> 00:40:09.780 So I met you too. 844 00:40:10.570 --> 00:40:12.530 Yeah. Well, I met you at the BFRO expedition and 845 00:40:12.690 --> 00:40:15.239 on the coast of California up there. Yeah, so I 846 00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:19.219 think I would have probably, because I am an introvert 847 00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:21.300 and I do prefer to be alone and whatnot, but 848 00:40:21.320 --> 00:40:23.400 you just don't move as fast that way. You just 849 00:40:23.420 --> 00:40:27.159 don't learn as much without bouncing ideas and that sort 850 00:40:27.199 --> 00:40:29.000 of stuff off. So I think that I would have 851 00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:31.719 tried to, knowing what I know now, I would have 852 00:40:31.780 --> 00:40:35.719 tried to shake off my introversion and try to reach 853 00:40:35.860 --> 00:40:41.400 out to like-minded individuals perhaps sooner. And along those lines, honestly, 854 00:40:42.539 --> 00:40:44.960 looking back, what I'd really try to do now, If 855 00:40:45.039 --> 00:40:47.079 I was trying to reach out to people, I would 856 00:40:47.119 --> 00:40:50.000 have tried to reach out to Dr. Grover Krantz and 857 00:40:50.059 --> 00:40:52.530 Paul Freeman before they died. And then there's a number 858 00:40:52.550 --> 00:40:54.530 of people who have now passed that I have missed 859 00:40:54.550 --> 00:40:58.170 the opportunity to connect with, unfortunately. So if I had 860 00:40:58.190 --> 00:41:01.250 to do it all over again with the knowledge that I, 861 00:41:01.510 --> 00:41:04.130 or somewhat of the knowledge that I have now, I 862 00:41:04.429 --> 00:41:08.780 would work with other people sooner to try to progress 863 00:41:08.840 --> 00:41:12.489 faster sooner. You know, I think that it wasn't a 864 00:41:12.510 --> 00:41:14.579 mistake and I

can't regret anything that I've done in 865 00:41:14.619 --> 00:41:17.380 my Bigfoot, you know, journey because of where I am now. 866 00:41:17.539 --> 00:41:21.380 And we are the product of all of our experiences 867 00:41:21.659 --> 00:41:24.179 and the pathway that we've taken to get here right now, 868 00:41:24.460 --> 00:41:27.639 you know, and I can't complain with what's happening. You know, 869 00:41:27.659 --> 00:41:29.469 I love what I'm doing and I love my job 870 00:41:29.510 --> 00:41:31.869 and I'm blessed in so many ways. And Bigfoot has 871 00:41:31.889 --> 00:41:34.250 given me almost everything that's kind of important to me 872 00:41:34.269 --> 00:41:36.210 in my life, you know, or really important to me 873 00:41:36.230 --> 00:41:38.929 in life, I should say. Almost everything. But I would 874 00:41:39.050 --> 00:41:41.610 do it... That's the way I would probably do it 875 00:41:41.699 --> 00:41:47.000 different at this point. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and 876 00:41:47.079 --> 00:41:49.760 Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. We'll be right back after 877 00:41:49.800 --> 00:41:50.400 these messages. 878 00:41:57.070 --> 00:42:00.369 I'd say trying to be more organized with my stuff 879 00:42:00.389 --> 00:42:04.730 that I collected probably would be... But I've known that 880 00:42:04.750 --> 00:42:07.210 for a long time and I'm still not that organized, so... 881 00:42:08.079 --> 00:42:10.179 I can't always go back and change it because I 882 00:42:10.179 --> 00:42:12.900 didn't change it now. 883 00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:15.199 That's a really good point. One thing I would do 884 00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:19.079 differently is everything I experienced or every story I heard 885 00:42:19.139 --> 00:42:21.059 from people, I would have written it all down in 886 00:42:21.139 --> 00:42:23.590 as much detail as I could as quickly as I could. 887 00:42:23.889 --> 00:42:25.820 I mean, because you've had so many stories. Imagine if 888 00:42:25.860 --> 00:42:28.989 you had written down all your experiences and stories you've 889 00:42:29.010 --> 00:42:32.570 heard to a T. You'd be sitting on mountains of data. 890 00:42:32.630 --> 00:42:33.309 You know what I mean? 891 00:42:33.630 --> 00:42:36.969 Oh, totally. Then I got kind of discouraged on that one. 892 00:42:37.610 --> 00:42:40.610 He's talking to scientists like, we're not going to use 893 00:42:40.650 --> 00:42:44.519 that data. It's like, it's not, it's all these reports 894 00:42:44.559 --> 00:42:48.199 are just, you know, like it's, it's not truly scientific, 895 00:42:48.239 --> 00:42:50.920 you know? So when I started hearing that, I was like, man, 896 00:42:51.460 --> 00:42:53.340 like that's all going to get tossed out. They're going 897 00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:55.760 to go with whatever they, what they observe in the field, 898 00:42:55.800 --> 00:42:59.980 like what they can document and, you know, run like, 899 00:43:00.019 --> 00:43:02.110 you know, like total scientific protocol. 900 00:43:02.920 --> 00:43:05.119 I just mean like for our own personal use, just 901 00:43:05.139 --> 00:43:07.719 to like have all that stuff at hand, because, you know, 902 00:43:07.739 --> 00:43:10.199 I have a pretty good memory, but I can't remember 903 00:43:10.280 --> 00:43:12.579 what I've forgotten, obviously, you know, so there might be 904 00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:16.800 stories or like aspects of early encounters or experiences that 905 00:43:16.840 --> 00:43:18.699 I just don't remember. And if I had written all 906 00:43:18.739 --> 00:43:20.719 that down, like I would love to have that stuff. 907 00:43:20.739 --> 00:43:23.199 And like, there's so many stories in my mind that 908 00:43:23.860 --> 00:43:26.780 from people I met in happenstance who told me their story, 909 00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:28.510 and then I try to like repeat it in some way. 910 00:43:28.550 --> 00:43:30.210 So I remember it, but at the same time, like, 911 00:43:30.289 --> 00:43:31.849 I just wish I had all that information. 912 00:43:32.619 --> 00:43:36.570 I used to literally have like probably eight or 9,000 913 00:43:36.570 --> 00:43:40.449 stories memorized in my head. Like, like seriously, like I 914 00:43:40.489 --> 00:43:43.449 just remembered all of them for so long. And now like, no, 915 00:43:43.610 --> 00:43:45.679 like there are a lot of them jumbled up. I 916 00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:48.059 just forget like so much of the details. 917 00:43:48.119 --> 00:43:51.420 And I would encourage people and you too, Bobo to 918 00:43:51.460 --> 00:43:54.780 not be hung up on science, like proper scientific documentation, 919 00:43:55.199 --> 00:43:59.750 because one of the most useful pieces of documentation in 920 00:43:59.809 --> 00:44:04.400 my current work is, is Vance Orchard's books. Our Vance 921 00:44:04.420 --> 00:44:07.760 Orchard's books, I should say. Got to make that subject-verb 922 00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:11.440 agreement there. But those two books have really helped me 923 00:44:11.480 --> 00:44:13.300 a lot, and there's not a whole lot of science 924 00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:15.610 in either one of those, because Vance Orchard was just 925 00:44:15.630 --> 00:44:18.789 a newspaper writer, and he had a very folksy sort 926 00:44:19.010 --> 00:44:22.750 of writing style. And there's not a whole lot of 927 00:44:23.230 --> 00:44:25.530 numbers and all that kind of stuff in there. He 928 00:44:25.570 --> 00:44:29.969 just told it what was happening, More or less as 929 00:44:30.010 --> 00:44:31.829 it was happening, you were a day or two later 930 00:44:31.849 --> 00:44:34.309 or something and threw in like, oh, these are 16-inch 931 00:44:34.349 --> 00:44:37.150 prints or 15, which are, you know, vague at best 932 00:44:37.210 --> 00:44:39.300 really because I'm very familiar with the Freeman evidence and 933 00:44:39.320 --> 00:44:41.519 the Blue Mountain evidence, I should say, wasn't all Freeman. 934 00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:47.380 And that

stuff is extraordinarily useful to me for my 935 00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:49.960 current projects of writing that book about the Blue Mountain evidence. 936 00:44:50.519 --> 00:44:53.099 So it doesn't have to be scientific to be useful. 937 00:44:53.340 --> 00:44:55.349 As long as you're writing it down, it's way better 938 00:44:55.369 --> 00:44:57.349 than not writing it down in any sort of form, so. 939 00:44:58.530 --> 00:45:00.929 But hopefully that helps, Alex. I think those are all 940 00:45:01.329 --> 00:45:04.250 quite good things there to contemplate for the new or 941 00:45:04.349 --> 00:45:08.269 early researcher or even for the veteran squatcher. So in 942 00:45:08.329 --> 00:45:11.820 keeping with another Bobo-centric question, here's the next one for you. 943 00:45:11.739 --> 00:45:17.619 There, Bobo. All right. Isaiah McGahee, I hope you're having 944 00:45:17.659 --> 00:45:20.360 a great day. I was watching a rerun of Finding 945 00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:22.760 Bigfoot today and wanted to know if Bobo's Respect the 946 00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:25.210 Squatch hat will ever be made available or if you 947 00:45:25.250 --> 00:45:27.610 may be able to point me in the right direction. 948 00:45:28.610 --> 00:45:31.360 finding one. If not, you should possibly look at stocking 949 00:45:31.539 --> 00:45:35.559 one on the site. I'd be the first to get one. 950 00:45:35.639 --> 00:45:37.039 Oh yeah, we have that new, we got the new 951 00:45:37.079 --> 00:45:38.679 merch story. Hell yeah, we're going to put it up there. 952 00:45:38.699 --> 00:45:42.489 Yeah, we could definitely do, bring back your Respect the 953 00:45:42.530 --> 00:45:43.590 Squatch hats for sure. 954 00:45:44.269 --> 00:45:47.570 Yeah, good idea. Yeah, we're gonna, it's a done deal. 955 00:45:48.230 --> 00:45:51.630 And we'll give Isaiah mad props for bringing that to 956 00:45:51.650 --> 00:45:53.590 the fore. I've been on the road and traveling so much, 957 00:45:53.630 --> 00:45:56.300 so But I'll be settled for the next week, so 958 00:45:56.340 --> 00:45:58.159 I can definitely reach out to our folks and just 959 00:45:58.199 --> 00:46:00.380 send them a picture of Bobo from the show and say, hey, 960 00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:02.980 can you guys recreate this? And I guarantee you they'll 961 00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:04.739 be able to do it. So I will get on it. 962 00:46:04.760 --> 00:46:05.980 We can probably do a better one. Those ones are 963 00:46:06.019 --> 00:46:08.440 so cheesy. I just made those at my buddy's shop, 964 00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:12.059 like cutting out like iron-on things and stuff. It was 965 00:46:12.099 --> 00:46:13.239 like pretty cheesy. 966 00:46:14.210 --> 00:46:15.809 Yeah, but at least even if we had like a 967 00:46:15.849 --> 00:46:17.949 higher quality product or something, at least we keep like 968 00:46:17.989 --> 00:46:20.340 the logo and stuff intact, you know, and then that 969 00:46:20.380 --> 00:46:23.300 way it's show accurate. That

way it's like, this is 970 00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:26.599 the same design that the Bobes wore. Because that's what 971 00:46:26.639 --> 00:46:27.320 the people want. 972 00:46:27.980 --> 00:46:28.380 Right. 973 00:46:29.099 --> 00:46:31.880 Mad props to Isaiah. In fact, you know what? Angry 974 00:46:31.960 --> 00:46:33.199 props to Isaiah. 975 00:46:33.969 --> 00:46:43.329 Yeah. Step up for mad. Isaiah. Furious props to Isaiah. Furious. 976 00:46:44.849 --> 00:46:47.630 Enraged props to Isaiah. Oh, Dr. 977 00:46:47.690 --> 00:46:48.889 Thesaurus is in the house. 978 00:46:49.590 --> 00:46:51.670 Wrathful. Oh, man. 979 00:46:52.199 --> 00:46:54.469 Is wrathful a word or is it like wrathsome? 980 00:46:54.699 --> 00:46:55.119 I don't know. 981 00:46:55.139 --> 00:46:56.219 I think it's wrathful. 982 00:46:57.000 --> 00:46:57.980 Wrathful vengeance. 983 00:46:58.619 --> 00:47:02.320 Yeah, full is more than some. I would go with 984 00:47:02.480 --> 00:47:03.500 the most extreme you can. 985 00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:07.320 This is the next written question for you, Cliff, and 986 00:47:07.340 --> 00:47:09.380 I think you'd probably have some good insights on this. 987 00:47:10.380 --> 00:47:14.019 Joseph Y., or it could be Joseph Y., Do you 988 00:47:14.079 --> 00:47:16.920 know if there was ever a study done to identify 989 00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:19.920 an individual Sasquatch and see how long they are in 990 00:47:20.059 --> 00:47:23.400 any particular area, or at least determine a minimum for 991 00:47:23.679 --> 00:47:26.860 age of the individual? No. I mean, I think there's 992 00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:28.989 been some speculation and whatnot, but I don't know what 993 00:47:29.030 --> 00:47:31.710 a study like that would actually look like. I have 994 00:47:31.909 --> 00:47:34.130 a few data points of interest that I think. 995 00:47:34.769 --> 00:47:35.750 Laurie Jo Hamilton. 996 00:47:36.090 --> 00:47:38.469 Yeah, Laurie Jo Hamilton is probably the best one that 997 00:47:38.550 --> 00:47:42.250 I know of. She's a very good friend of mine. 998 00:47:42.849 --> 00:47:46.119 longtime researcher, and she has told me that she basically 999 00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:49.619 grew up around a particular Sasquatch, or a couple of 1000 00:47:49.639 --> 00:47:52.260 them at least. We should get maybe Lori on the 1001 00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:54.420 podcast sometime, because I'd like to get her story straight. 1002 00:47:54.460 --> 00:47:57.820 I need to sit her down anyway. But she told 1003 00:47:57.880 --> 00:48:00.320 me that the first time she ran into the Sasquatch 1004 00:48:00.340 --> 00:48:02.880 that lived behind her house, and she had a big 1005 00:48:03.039 --> 00:48:04.969 watershed that was off limits, kind of like the bull 1006 00:48:05.010 --> 00:48:07.030 run thing that I'm always talking about, behind her house 1007 00:48:07.690 --> 00:48:09.800 up on the Olympic Peninsula there. and by the way, 1008 00:48:09.820 --> 00:48:13.639 the Sasquatch that, that she would encounter repeatedly over the 1009 00:48:13.659 --> 00:48:18.880 years was named Bobo. Oddly enough, coincidentally enough, there was a. 1010 00:48:18.880 --> 00:48:21.380 Gorilla in the zoo up in Seattle named Bobo. So she, 1011 00:48:21.440 --> 00:48:23.639 that's what she saw when she was like in kindergarten. 1012 00:48:23.659 --> 00:48:25.369 So then, When she saw the Bigfoot, the only thing 1013 00:48:25.389 --> 00:48:27.679 she could compare it to was the Bobo at the zoo, 1014 00:48:27.739 --> 00:48:28.860 so she called it Bobo. 1015 00:48:29.260 --> 00:48:31.179 Oh, yeah, but to be specific about it, it wasn't 1016 00:48:31.219 --> 00:48:33.000 the zoo. It was like the mall or something like that. 1017 00:48:33.019 --> 00:48:35.340 Oh, that's right. Yeah, you're right. It was in the cement. 1018 00:48:35.679 --> 00:48:38.900 Forget about cement. There's nothing in it for it. It 1019 00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:40.500 was just an empty cement cage. 1020 00:48:40.719 --> 00:48:43.329 Yeah, people our age and older up in the Washington area, 1021 00:48:43.369 --> 00:48:46.050 like Olympia area, will probably remember this, and I'm sure 1022 00:48:46.090 --> 00:48:48.869 that we'll even get some emails, maybe some photographs of Bobo, 1023 00:48:48.989 --> 00:48:51.449 et cetera. But she was young enough at the time, 1024 00:48:51.510 --> 00:48:53.550 if I remember correctly— She was young enough at the 1025 00:48:53.590 --> 00:48:55.849 time that when she saw the Sasquatch, she just thought 1026 00:48:55.869 --> 00:48:58.269 it was the gorilla Bobo that she had seen at 1027 00:48:58.309 --> 00:49:00.909 the mall or wherever it was. And so that's what 1028 00:49:00.949 --> 00:49:03.889 she named it. And I think she was like seven 1029 00:49:03.969 --> 00:49:08.230 or something, somewhere in there, like very young. And she 1030 00:49:08.289 --> 00:49:10.969 saw this thing over the, and she told me not 1031 00:49:11.050 --> 00:49:13.010 a few years ago that she doesn't think that it 1032 00:49:13.050 --> 00:49:15.880 was full grown when she first saw it. It was 1033 00:49:15.900 --> 00:49:19.139 like six feet. Although that was such an early age 1034 00:49:19.199 --> 00:49:22.920 for her. The memories are fuzzy and can't be really 1035 00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:25.420 counted on or anything like that anyway. You know what 1036 00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:27.800 I mean? But nonetheless, she had the feeling that it 1037 00:49:27.860 --> 00:49:33.210 was still juvenile. But she told me about a decade 1038 00:49:33.250 --> 00:49:35.929 ago that the last time she had seen what she 1039 00:49:36.010 --> 00:49:40.409 considers to be that same Sasquatch was a few years before. 1040 00:49:40.889 --> 00:49:45.079 So that means that she had been seeing that particular Sasquatch, 1041 00:49:45.320 --> 00:49:48.280 if she's correct, and we don't know that, for about 1042 00:49:48.280 --> 00:49:51.539 50 years or so. Like, little less, little more,

somewhere 1043 00:49:51.559 --> 00:49:54.320 in there, 40, 50 years or so. And she might 1044 00:49:54.340 --> 00:49:57.050 be right. I don't know. I don't know. I know 1045 00:49:57.110 --> 00:49:59.610 in the footprint cast evidence, nothing. 1046 00:49:59.690 --> 00:50:02.110 One of the last times she saw it, like, well, 1047 00:50:02.230 --> 00:50:06.409 it had an infected tooth and its mouth was all swollen. 1048 00:50:07.070 --> 00:50:09.519 It was in pain and All that. 1049 00:50:09.780 --> 00:50:12.099 Yeah, I need to go up and probably sit her 1050 00:50:12.119 --> 00:50:15.210 down for a good long interview and get it from 1051 00:50:15.269 --> 00:50:19.750 her mouth, like what she remembers and her experience of 1052 00:50:19.809 --> 00:50:23.090 it for no other reason than historical reasons, really. And 1053 00:50:23.289 --> 00:50:25.110 she might be right, and that's probably the best data 1054 00:50:25.190 --> 00:50:31.920 point for an extended long-term on-and-off sort of encounter observation 1055 00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:35.409 series with a Sasquatch that I'm aware of. because I 1056 00:50:35.429 --> 00:50:37.679 don't think, you know, Lori's a liar. I trust what 1057 00:50:37.719 --> 00:50:39.360 she's saying. You know, I mean, I don't know. 1058 00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:43.780 And the interesting thing going along with Sasquatch and children 1059 00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:47.219 was that there was a black bear there and the 1060 00:50:47.260 --> 00:50:49.159 Bobo Bigfoot chased it off. 1061 00:50:49.949 --> 00:50:51.969 Yeah, which is very interesting. Yeah, so she has a 1062 00:50:52.010 --> 00:50:54.010 lot of stories, a lot of stories, and I'd like 1063 00:50:54.030 --> 00:50:56.329 to get them documented at least. So maybe I should 1064 00:50:56.349 --> 00:50:58.989 make that a priority this wintertime. But as far as 1065 00:50:59.010 --> 00:51:02.320 the footprint cast evidence, the Blue Mountain stuff is interesting, 1066 00:51:02.820 --> 00:51:05.639 but they weren't around for that long. let's see from 1067 00:51:05.659 --> 00:51:08.079 the early, like say for example, the wrinkle foot animal 1068 00:51:08.440 --> 00:51:11.860 in the blue mountains, the first recorded occurrence of wrinkle 1069 00:51:11.900 --> 00:51:14.559 foot to my knowledge that that has been verified by 1070 00:51:14.579 --> 00:51:19.090 the footprint cast was in 1984. And that animal disappeared 1071 00:51:19.150 --> 00:51:21.670 more or less in about 1990 and was replaced by 1072 00:51:21.730 --> 00:51:24.750 another one. And that, that second one was around from 1073 00:51:24.769 --> 00:51:25.329 about 1990 or 91 until about 2005. 1074 00:51:25.309 --> 00:51:25.429 Yeah. 1075 00:51:31.110 --> 00:51:32.980 And then after that, honestly, we don't know if it 1076 00:51:33.019 --> 00:51:36.079 went away or if just people stopped researching because there's 1077 00:51:36.139 --> 00:51:37.780 not a whole lot of casts at all from after that. 1078 00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:40.039 There's a few, and I'm still trying to track down 1079 00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:42.179 as many as I can. And I do get emails 1080 00:51:42.639 --> 00:51:44.920 from people who have listened to the podcast or dropped 1081 00:51:44.940 --> 00:51:46.960 by the museum and seen the Blue Mountain evidence there 1082 00:51:47.579 --> 00:51:50.420 that's like, oh, I ran into a cast in 2010 1083 00:51:50.420 --> 00:51:53.139 and that sort of stuff. And of course, I also 1084 00:51:53.199 --> 00:51:55.480 have footprint casts that I have personally cast in the 1085 00:51:55.500 --> 00:51:58.260 Blue Mountains, but they seem to represent different individuals than 1086 00:51:58.360 --> 00:52:05.739 the historical record does. So the cast evidence isn't lengthy 1087 00:52:05.780 --> 00:52:08.800 enough to really record how long an individual is in 1088 00:52:08.840 --> 00:52:11.559 an area or at least is living, I should say. 1089 00:52:12.400 --> 00:52:14.489 We just don't have good information like that. And if 1090 00:52:14.630 --> 00:52:17.530 any of, you know, people talk about habituations and these 1091 00:52:17.590 --> 00:52:20.070 long-term witnesses and all that sort of stuff. But the 1092 00:52:20.110 --> 00:52:22.630 thing about those folks is that, number one, I think 1093 00:52:22.670 --> 00:52:24.889 a lot of them might be misinterpreting things around their house. 1094 00:52:24.929 --> 00:52:27.940 But number two, the ones that are actually happening, and 1095 00:52:28.480 --> 00:52:30.800 I'm sure that we have some people that have Bigfoots 1096 00:52:30.840 --> 00:52:32.679 around their house and have had them around their house 1097 00:52:32.719 --> 00:52:36.659 for decades. Those people are not the types of people 1098 00:52:36.739 --> 00:52:40.269 to really, in my experience, at least, and if I'm wrong, 1099 00:52:40.469 --> 00:52:42.769 my God, let me know. I would love to be 1100 00:52:42.829 --> 00:52:45.329 wrong about this, but it's been my observation that those 1101 00:52:45.369 --> 00:52:48.550 are not the types of people to be prolific collectors 1102 00:52:48.610 --> 00:52:51.489 of evidence because they know what's around their house or 1103 00:52:51.510 --> 00:52:54.090 they feel they know what's around their house, and why bother? 1104 00:52:54.619 --> 00:52:57.360 And this is exactly why one should bother. If you 1105 00:52:57.400 --> 00:52:59.420 have a Sasquatch living in the neighborhood and you're living 1106 00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:02.900 there for 20, 30 years, how much information can we 1107 00:53:02.940 --> 00:53:06.119 learn by casting a footprint once a year? Kind of 1108 00:53:06.139 --> 00:53:09.380 a lot. We can learn a lot about the species 1109 00:53:09.820 --> 00:53:12.769 by casting a footprint once a year if it's the 1110 00:53:12.789 --> 00:53:16.489 same individual animal. But again, the long-term witnesses, the one 1111 00:53:16.650 --> 00:53:18.570 that I think are legit,

and there are certainly a 1112 00:53:18.610 --> 00:53:21.699 lot of them, are not the kinds of people to 1113 00:53:21.739 --> 00:53:23.659 really do that sort of thing because they don't want, 1114 00:53:23.980 --> 00:53:26.440 you know, Bigfoot weirdos crawling around their house and stuff. 1115 00:53:26.460 --> 00:53:28.260 And I don't blame them. I don't want Bigfoot weirdos 1116 00:53:28.300 --> 00:53:31.320 around my house either. One is enough. Except for my 1117 00:53:31.340 --> 00:53:32.599 close friends, Matt and Bobo, of course. 1118 00:53:33.559 --> 00:53:34.420 Yeah. 1119 00:53:35.659 --> 00:53:39.039 Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bobo. 1120 00:53:39.219 --> 00:53:40.900 We'll be right back after these messages. 1121 00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:48.719 Well, there is one more question. 1122 00:53:49.760 --> 00:53:53.760 Let's see, it's James Jackson. Longtime listener here with a 1123 00:53:53.880 --> 00:53:56.440 question that pushes it when it comes to the beyond 1124 00:53:56.500 --> 00:53:59.679 part of your Bigfoot, but could help me in a 1125 00:53:59.739 --> 00:54:03.760 time of confusion. My longtime girlfriend and I have hit crossroads. 1126 00:54:04.590 --> 00:54:08.210 I've been on the fence about kids leaning slightly toward no, 1127 00:54:08.670 --> 00:54:10.750 but she's now set on having a baby. We both 1128 00:54:10.829 --> 00:54:14.250 know this isn't something we can compromise on, but I'm 1129 00:54:14.369 --> 00:54:17.969 stuck in deep rumination and I'm going round in circles 1130 00:54:18.070 --> 00:54:21.039 over it. As far as I'm aware, all three of 1131 00:54:21.099 --> 00:54:24.559 you are child-free. What led to that decision? Are you 1132 00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:27.530 happy with the cut outcome? I do appreciate that this 1133 00:54:27.590 --> 00:54:31.070 will probably never make the cut, but I thought I'd 1134 00:54:31.190 --> 00:54:34.730 throw it out there as you guys and your show 1135 00:54:34.769 --> 00:54:38.190 have become a regular and calming end to my week, 1136 00:54:38.570 --> 00:54:43.250 and I'd be interested to hear your perspectives. Yeah, I mean, 1137 00:54:43.289 --> 00:54:47.769 I was pretty shocked when I did that 23andMe interview ancestry.com 1138 00:54:48.030 --> 00:54:49.570 DNA test a couple of years ago. I thought for 1139 00:54:49.650 --> 00:54:51.170 sure I was going to have some running around out 1140 00:54:51.190 --> 00:54:56.139 there and then nothing popped up. So I was pretty, 1141 00:54:56.320 --> 00:54:59.260 so it's just gotta, it just kind of hit me recently. Like, man, 1142 00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:00.480 I really don't have any kids. 1143 00:55:00.820 --> 00:55:02.480 So it wasn't for lack of trying. 1144 00:55:03.159 --> 00:55:03.500 Yeah. 1145 00:55:04.139 --> 00:55:04.260 Yeah. 1146 00:55:04.280 --> 00:55:05.989 I mean, it would have been, it probably would have 1147 00:55:06.010 --> 00:55:09.909 been pretty cool. I mean, it would have, it's always like, yeah, 1148 00:55:09.929 --> 00:55:12.510 it's going to, it's going to impact your life pretty heavily. 1149 00:55:12.530 --> 00:55:12.610 Yeah. 1150 00:55:13.469 --> 00:55:16.050 You know, especially if you're doing stuff like squatching and, 1151 00:55:16.760 --> 00:55:19.000 and back then I was surfing more than I was squatching, like, 1152 00:55:19.039 --> 00:55:23.780 you know, like in my twenties. So it was always like, 1153 00:55:24.019 --> 00:55:25.659 it was something like pushed down the line, like, Oh, 1154 00:55:25.699 --> 00:55:27.800 it'll happen later. It'll happen later. It'll happen later. But 1155 00:55:28.420 --> 00:55:30.530 I say, go for it. Bang a couple out. 1156 00:55:31.329 --> 00:55:34.230 James, I've never had the desire. Like it's never occurred 1157 00:55:34.269 --> 00:55:38.110 to me. I've never been reflective and thought to myself like, Oh, 1158 00:55:38.170 --> 00:55:40.090 I would like that to happen one day, or I 1159 00:55:40.130 --> 00:55:42.280 can see myself in that role. It's just, that's just 1160 00:55:42.320 --> 00:55:44.880 never been, me you know I know it is for 1161 00:55:44.900 --> 00:55:46.619 a lot of people from the time they're young they 1162 00:55:46.639 --> 00:55:49.199 can just envision themselves as parents and they're looking forward 1163 00:55:49.219 --> 00:55:51.539 to the day and they want to see themselves as 1164 00:55:51.559 --> 00:55:54.079 you know mothers or fathers it's just never happened for 1165 00:55:54.119 --> 00:55:56.440 me so I never really pursued it like I just 1166 00:55:56.519 --> 00:55:59.239 always kind of knew that that just wasn't in the 1167 00:55:59.280 --> 00:56:02.489 cards for me just because it it wasn't something that 1168 00:56:03.050 --> 00:56:06.369 was ever a desire and so for me personally like 1169 00:56:06.510 --> 00:56:09.360 I'm I'm happy with that outcome you know, and I 1170 00:56:09.550 --> 00:56:11.429 met someone who wanted the same thing out of life 1171 00:56:11.610 --> 00:56:13.510 in Emily. And so we just always knew like that 1172 00:56:13.550 --> 00:56:16.690 just wasn't in our future as we saw it. And 1173 00:56:16.730 --> 00:56:19.369 so we're very happy, but you know, everyone is different, 1174 00:56:19.829 --> 00:56:21.829 what they want out of life, what they see in 1175 00:56:21.869 --> 00:56:25.389 their futures. And so I would say, while I appreciate 1176 00:56:26.070 --> 00:56:30.300 you asking us our experiences as people without kids, it 1177 00:56:30.380 --> 00:56:33.739 is going to ultimately be up to you and, I 1178 00:56:33.760 --> 00:56:36.090 think we would be well outnumbered by the people with 1179 00:56:36.139 --> 00:56:38.570 kids who, you know, everyone I know who has kids 1180 00:56:38.590 --> 00:56:44.329 say it's the most transformative and powerful experience and ongoing experience. 1181 00:56:44.369 --> 00:56:47.190 And the relationship you have with your kids is unbelievable. 1182 00:56:47.210 -->

00:56:49.730 You know, I have an amazing relationship with my parents. 1183 00:56:50.349 --> 00:56:55.590 So as a 44-year-old kid, you know, I love my parents. 1184 00:56:55.650 --> 00:56:58.590 But for me personally, no, it was never something. 1185 00:56:58.630 --> 00:57:00.190 You guys have been the best parents. 1186 00:57:01.090 --> 00:57:01.969 I don't know. 1187 00:57:03.110 --> 00:57:04.809 I would have been like, come on kid, let's go squatching. 1188 00:57:05.650 --> 00:57:07.289 Yeah. I got caught up in that whole thing about 1189 00:57:07.329 --> 00:57:09.590 like the world's like going downhill so fast. It's going 1190 00:57:09.610 --> 00:57:11.949 to be like, you know, like the environment's going to 1191 00:57:11.969 --> 00:57:14.349 be unlivable. You're like, I was, I was, you know, 1192 00:57:14.389 --> 00:57:17.030 drill that, like that was that whole thing out here, 1193 00:57:17.050 --> 00:57:20.199 you know, especially like in California was like, why have kids? 1194 00:57:20.239 --> 00:57:22.159 You're just going to raise them up in this hell hole. 1195 00:57:22.179 --> 00:57:24.639 You know, it's like the, the world's coming to an 1196 00:57:24.780 --> 00:57:27.199 end and you know, there's going to be 200 degrees 1197 00:57:27.239 --> 00:57:30.920 temperature and all the, you know, glaciers melted and ice, 1198 00:57:31.099 --> 00:57:33.340 like the, the poles will be ice free and it's 1199 00:57:33.360 --> 00:57:35.300 going to be the whole coast is going to be 1200 00:57:35.320 --> 00:57:38.760 underwater and there's going to be fires everywhere and famine. And, 1201 00:57:38.980 --> 00:57:40.219 you know, and I was just like, God, who wants 1202 00:57:40.239 --> 00:57:42.380 to bring a kid up in that? And then like 1203 00:57:42.420 --> 00:57:44.599 looking back, I was like, oh man, I shouldn't have 1204 00:57:44.619 --> 00:57:45.780 listened to that stuff. 1205 00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:46.619 Yeah. 1206 00:57:46.639 --> 00:57:48.920 I mean, I didn't even factor those things in, although 1207 00:57:48.940 --> 00:57:50.900 I've heard people talk about that for me, I just 1208 00:57:50.940 --> 00:57:53.250 never wanted it. So it's not like I'm against it. 1209 00:57:53.360 --> 00:57:55.980 I was never like, oh my God, I'll never have kids. Never. 1210 00:57:56.000 --> 00:57:58.760 It was just, I never wanted that. And so it was, 1211 00:57:59.260 --> 00:58:02.400 it was just never something that was, in my vision 1212 00:58:02.440 --> 00:58:05.130 of myself for the future was never something that I 1213 00:58:05.190 --> 00:58:08.050 contemplated like, Oh, someday I can't wait for the day. 1214 00:58:08.090 --> 00:58:12.090 Just totally, totally devoid of that. So again, not against 1215 00:58:12.210 --> 00:58:14.369 it as much as just without that. 1216 00:58:14.489 --> 00:58:14.949 You know what I mean? 1217 00:58:15.909 --> 00:58:19.079 Oh, so what's up with you? You flip, what's your take? 1218 00:58:19.639 --> 00:58:22.239 Well, I think I would have enjoyed having children for 1219 00:58:22.280 --> 00:58:23.880 the most part, but I mean, you see how I 1220 00:58:23.900 --> 00:58:27.139 am with this, this horrible cat, right? And, and children 1221 00:58:27.159 --> 00:58:28.750 are way louder than that cat is in the middle 1222 00:58:28.769 --> 00:58:31.280 of the night. But actually, all joking aside, really, I 1223 00:58:31.300 --> 00:58:32.980 think I would have been a great dad. I think 1224 00:58:33.019 --> 00:58:35.559 Melissa would be an amazing mother, just with so much 1225 00:58:35.619 --> 00:58:37.539 love to give and everything. She's so kind and sweet 1226 00:58:37.579 --> 00:58:40.119 and perfect in every single way. I think it would 1227 00:58:40.139 --> 00:58:42.500 have been great, but just wasn't in the cards. And honestly, 1228 00:58:42.579 --> 00:58:44.739 I'm probably a bit better off for it, I think, 1229 00:58:44.980 --> 00:58:47.820 because my schedule to being gone all the time and 1230 00:58:47.880 --> 00:58:50.489 on the road and between the TV show and these 1231 00:58:50.550 --> 00:58:52.940 away gigs that I do. And then like, somebody calls 1232 00:58:52.980 --> 00:58:56.320 me now, like, like on the podcast at this very moment, 1233 00:58:56.380 --> 00:58:58.619 if someone called me and said, someone saw Bigfoot two, 1234 00:58:58.840 --> 00:59:02.519 two hours ago, I would drop this and go. And children, 1235 00:59:02.579 --> 00:59:05.210 you just, you just can't drop children. You know, it 1236 00:59:05.250 --> 00:59:07.869 hurts them. So I think it's probably better. 1237 00:59:07.889 --> 00:59:09.090 I got dropped a lot as a child. I mean, 1238 00:59:10.079 --> 00:59:10.579 any favors. 1239 00:59:11.559 --> 00:59:15.679 You can tell. No, but in all seriousness, it just 1240 00:59:15.699 --> 00:59:18.610 didn't happen. And you know what? I'm not one of 1241 00:59:18.650 --> 00:59:22.130 those people that wishes things would have been different or 1242 00:59:22.210 --> 00:59:24.230 something like that. It just doesn't make any sense to me. 1243 00:59:24.250 --> 00:59:27.550 Because people, I don't even make wishes. you know, like 1244 00:59:27.590 --> 00:59:29.630 wishbones and, oh, there's a shooting star, make a wish 1245 00:59:29.690 --> 00:59:32.730 or blow out your birthday candles, make a wish. I 1246 00:59:32.769 --> 00:59:35.570 don't even do that because one of the things I've 1247 00:59:35.610 --> 00:59:38.489 learned in my life is that I am not wise 1248 00:59:38.550 --> 00:59:41.320 enough to know what's good for me, but I am 1249 00:59:41.480 --> 00:59:44.079 wise enough to accept the path that I am given. 1250 00:59:44.500 --> 00:59:45.900 And this is the path I'm on and I don't 1251 00:59:45.940 --> 00:59:49.119 have any kids. So there you go. I'm perfectly happy 1252 00:59:49.159 --> 00:59:50.480 with that. I think I would have been a great 1253 00:59:50.519 --> 00:59:51.920 dad and I think Melissa would have been a great 1254 00:59:51.980 --> 00:59:54.500 mom and whatever else, but we did meet pretty late 1255 00:59:54.539 --> 00:59:56.800 in life and that's just the way it is, man. 1256 00:59:57.119 --> 00:59:59.119 Because I'm 55 years old, man. If I had a 1257 00:59:59.139 --> 01:00:01.440 kid today, God, can you imagine having a high school 1258 01:00:01.500 --> 01:00:03.920 kid when you're like 70 or 72? That'd be really 1259 01:00:03.960 --> 01:00:07.590 hard on me. So anyway, that's kind of where I'm at. 1260 01:00:07.949 --> 01:00:12.730 It didn't happen. I'm okay with it. I'm perfectly fine. 1261 01:00:13.349 --> 01:00:14.809 So I hope that helps, James. 1262 01:00:16.250 --> 01:00:16.710 Sorry, Jay. 1263 01:00:16.800 --> 01:00:19.000 If you hear us laughing hard, it's because Bobo made 1264 01:00:19.039 --> 01:00:21.380 a joke that I probably had to cut out. So 1265 01:00:21.699 --> 01:00:24.639 you're not hearing what we're laughing about. But just rest 1266 01:00:24.679 --> 01:00:27.300 assured it was A, not at your expense, and B, 1267 01:00:27.539 --> 01:00:31.539 very funny. But hopefully that's helpful, James. And that was 1268 01:00:31.579 --> 01:00:34.449 the last question for this October 2026 Q & A. 1269 01:00:34.489 --> 01:00:36.550 But we do have a lot of questions from the Pigeonry. 1270 01:00:37.110 --> 01:00:38.789 Well, we better head to the coop and see what's up. 1271 01:00:39.449 --> 01:00:43.889 Yeah, to the coop. All right, folks. Well, we're going 1272 01:00:43.909 --> 01:00:46.429 to go over to our Patreon section now for the members. 1273 01:00:47.010 --> 01:00:49.050 So thanks so much for joining us. Keep those questions 1274 01:00:49.110 --> 01:00:52.449 coming in. And hit like, hit share. That helps us. 1275 01:00:53.309 --> 01:00:57.320 And until next week, y'all keep it squatchy. 1276 01:01:00.960 --> 01:01:04.210 Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond. 1277 01:01:04.670 --> 01:01:06.929 If you liked what you heard, please rate and review 1278 01:01:06.949 --> 01:01:10.300 us on iTunes. Subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you 1279 01:01:10.320 --> 01:01:13.500 get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram 1280 01:01:13.519 --> 01:01:19.489 at BigfootAndBeyondPodcast. You can find us on Twitter at BigfootAndBeyond, 1281 01:01:19.650 --> 01:01:22.250 that's an N in the middle, and tweet us your 1282 01:01:22.309 --> 01:01:26.239 thoughts and questions with the hashtag BigfootAndBeyond.