How can AI put accessible, affordable healthcare into the hands of every person on Earth? We go ‘Beyond The Hype’ with Dr. Ali Parsa, Founder and CEO of Babylon Health. As Babylon develops cutting-edge AI for medical diagnosis, Ali describes the opportunities, challenges and implications of reinventing a $10 trillion industry using AI. With Babylon valued at over $200m, Ali also provides an entrepreneur’s perspective on how to build a world-class AI company. How can organisations recruit top AI talent? How can startups sell to the NHS? What personal characteristics are key for entrepreneurial success?
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00:00:02Health care is broken but it can be democratized welcome to the mmc ventures podcast We're going beyond the hype in artificial intelligence a warm welcome to listeners I'm david kellner partner and head of research at mmc ventures thie insight led venture capital firm based in london in this
00:00:20six part series will be hearing deep inside's from some of the world's leading eye technologists entrepreneurs and corporate executives while keeping things accessible for non specialist i think a eyes today's most important enabling technology but it's not easy to separate fact from fiction my golf this siri's is
00:00:36for us to come away better informed about the reality of a i today what's to come and how to take advantage the syriza sponsored by barclays i allspark please for strap line they like to include a sponsor and i thought their response was really interesting Quote many thanks
00:00:52We're not sure what happens slogan here's how we're thinking about ii we think i's incredibly important a whole new field that says significant is anything that's gone before we think about it alone We think they eyes vital to our business and we're working hard to take advantage of
00:01:06it for our customers we need to learn from and collaborate with a wide range of people to ensure success we think technology advances fastest not when it's held close but when people go out listen and contribute i thought that was actually better than any slogan so i asked
00:01:20if we might run with that and i have pleasure in doing so i'm delighted today to speak with dr ellie parsa founder and ceo of babylon health one of the leading eye companies in the uk and globally babylon's on a mission to transform healthcare worldwide I'm excited to
00:01:35talk with you today about a i the impact of a i on health care on daddy's experiences nay i entrepreneur alisyn entrepreneur an engineer by background prior to babylon alley founded healthcare provider circle which grew to become europe's largest clinical partnership with two hundred million pounds of annual
00:01:51revenue and three thousand employees circle also enjoyed a successful ipo Ali was named by the times is one of the hundred people to watch globally and this recipient the royal award for young entrepreneurs by founding v n g earlier in his career he's also a uk cabinet office
00:02:07ambassador and has a phd in engineering physics ali a very warm welcome thank you very much i should mention to listeners that prior to joining the venture capital world i worked with allie from babylon's earliest days is the company's cfo and as a result of a small shareholder
00:02:21in the company and i can tell you that the company's current office is a much better environment than your garden shed which we started so things are clearly going ok we're incredibly sad to lose you well let let let's talk for a little bit about bad along tell
00:02:34us about babylon what's your mission so we started babylon to try and do with health care what google did with information make it accessible affordable put it in the hands off every human being on earth that was our mission that they were started it remains our mission today
00:02:50the babylon out makes it easy for people to speak to a gp using the smartphone you are also developing artificial intelligence to diagnose illnesses why did babylon evolved into an aye aye First company if david you think about accessibility and affordability of health care as long as i
00:03:08can deliver most off the health care most people need on devices most off them have that highly access all the problem becomes affordability how do you make health care affordable and to do so you need to understand where the costs in health care are on the cost sitting
00:03:23too fundamental buckets one its people to turn off all the money in niches for instance in brittany spends on health care it goes into salaries and that number is almost through also in wanda and it's almost three in united states it's so i can cut the cost of
00:03:41health care in every other area on by time have done so the inflation has eaten into that second big bucket of course is timing most diseases by the time they manifest their symptom A ten dollar problem has become a thousand dollars solution in both of those areas The
00:03:59only true solution is to use machines artificial intelligence as you call them to enhance augment the ability of humans to deal with more off the problems that we have in order to reduce the cuss One of the implications i think i will have is to enable services to
00:04:18be scaled to an extent they haven't before by automating activities that previously could only be undertaken by people the lower costs on better accessibility That result might enable whole new subsets of the global population to access services like healthcare and financial services for the first time Is that
00:04:37the kind of impact your describing you're absolutely right for you and i help Care is available and it's accessible It's expensive it's inconvenient but it's there for fifty percent of the world's population there is no access to healthcare people forget that that all of this ten trillion dollar
00:04:58industry days healthcare today it's on ly actually for the minority of human beings on earth vast majority of people i have very little access to health care on almost half have none but yet the all half access to a more before so if we can deliver through the
00:05:16platform they already have the health care they need We wouldn't open this market to every human being on earth You're absolutely right Can you tell us specifically then how you use machine learning technologies out babylon to achieve some of those benefits of cost reduction or of accessibility and
00:05:31scale ability that you described So let me explain to you what we have built to two Because people talk about machine learning their different branches off course and techniques in artificial intelligence It's a better way of thinking about this is what is it that we create If you
00:05:47create an artificial intelligent doctor we basically replicating the brain off a doctor So what does the brain off a doctor contained We send the student to university on dh They'd learn to give them a knowledge base So we have created in here what is today Probably the world's
00:06:03largest knowledge base in medicine Certainly in primary care with over five hundred thirty million strings of knowledge no human brain can contain that many at least accessibly immediately Second doctor talks to interacts with you to crack take information from you and to convey it to you So we
00:06:22have created natural language processing understanding generation capability in here that i can understand medicine so for instance when i say my tummy's killing me it understand it means my stomach hurt and it doesn't call the police The third thing is a doctor than collect that information and in
00:06:43first from it logically decides what it is that is wrong with you for that we had to create what is today I understand the word's largest asian network the largest probabilistic graphical model that ever existed on andi it's natural date should be there because you look at the
00:07:03combinations off symptoms on dh risks on history you can have the billions of variations that we're trying to assess to set the probability of what disease you can have We have to build that and we have to build an innovation network and not as they call in deep
00:07:21learning because it needs to be auditable I cannot say that hey the machines said that's your disease and calm no why So it had to use a particular technique as opposed to another on dh Then a doctor's is okay so that's your disease on let me now i
00:07:37tell you if you don't fix it here is going to be your future or it's a it's what we call him in artificial intelligence predictive analytics on dh then off course a doctor every time learns from there their interactions with don't patients that's what we call it practice
00:07:54on dh that's the part where the machine learning comes to the machine learns from every interaction it has pretty much every state clinical process you're replicating in software but using cutting edge techniques and you have to do that so you can't do this in a little piece because
00:08:12my body and the knowledge base and the interaction cannot be piece off that together on also you can't do this in a vertical in medicine either One of the problems with medicine is that there are many silos on after i unfortunately lost my father in law to diabetes
00:08:31on dh he had a wonderful doctor who t deal with his eye on another wonderful doctor who did with his feet problem another one who deals with his back problem but the problem is he's of one single human being how do you create a machine that avoids the
00:08:46silos in medicine by being excellent by looking after you everywhere forty percent of people with diabetes have depression wolf one form or another How do we deal with that And that is why when you build a machine in health care it needs to be a comprehensive and twin
00:09:04solution which makes it a very expensive difficulty to create that once you created it is a wonderful thing to have in the pocket off everybody it's when understood that one of the challenges of deep learning of artificial neural networks is this explain ability problem we know that deep
00:09:20learning a eyes really good at finding patterns and making good predictions but we just don't always know how it does it you mentioned a little earlier about why you use basing networks is it precisely because of this concern around explain ability correct on dh there was also other
00:09:35reasons for that right so we we also need tohave in deep learning you need to have enough data sets reliable data sets in order for the machine toe learn andi medicine you know when the team the great team in deep mind creo won the game go against a
00:09:54world champion between the machine true of very large selection of games that the machine play but the rules ofthe the games are written into paradise give or take off the game go the rules of medicine are not even written into volumes of books and there is not enough
00:10:11data in the war to teach and machine just randomly hard to become a doctor you need to create that knowledge and you need to teach the machine so there are other reasons for using the techniques we use on we do use a lot of deep learning but you
00:10:27use it in other parts of our business being used in language we use in the interactions we use it in other parts so like a lot of the natural language processing presumably is stephen based on in pattern recognition the other point i want to pick up on you
00:10:39describe toward the end there ah whole view of the patient a more realistic view of a patient is requiring health care to give results Do you think there's a kind of more profound paradigm shift happening here a prime opportunity longer term where not just they only can do
00:10:54what a human doctor does better but hey i could do what a human doctor could never do by having the ability to truly have a fuller or whole view of a patient through data that any individual when he system could could never have or am i getting over
00:11:09excited No you're absolutely right where we are going will be far beyond the capability off any individual doctor there's no question about this the brain that we're building it's not just the brain off a gp it also eventually will become the brain off many specialists The machine can
00:11:29become a great ought about the great gp great psychologist at the same time it will also be the brain off a foreign doctor because it will be serving patients in different countries and it will learn from those back into it will track you it will be with you
00:11:44all the time it'll look att all your information that you prepared to share with it what we're building today it will be a fraction off what its capability will be only in a couple of years from now we never share what we do beyond three to four months
00:12:02publically but when i look at some of the projects the teams are doing that should come to market a year from now it is just it is it just brings tears to my eyes sometimes just ing what the limits off the possibilities are here we'll talk about the
00:12:17impact on health care in just a moment but with regard to the technology what are the biggest challenges you encounter when developing an aye aye capability i think when you're going into uncharted territory you actually never know what is going to be your biggest challenge on the beauty
00:12:35ofthe sciences once the problem is solved it's solved it's behind you and therefore you move on to the to the next ishii our current challenges you were saying quite rightly is that the size off the network we had to build is so large and the number of decisions
00:12:52we have to make or it need to compute its so varied and so immense it's that the processing power of computers are its limit in order for us to be having a natural conversation there is a latent scene that we're trying to overcome so when we sometimes hear
00:13:10people say oh yeah oh there is another group of people who do something like this sometimes one there we know it cannot be true because we know what it takes to get there In terms of sheer size i'm actually glad to say that it looks like we've just
00:13:29managed to solve that problem We're implementing it now and will know shortly but we've done there That is one off the front Your problems off computing that that the scientist team in here has managed to overcome talking of talent It's widely understood that tongue is such a key
00:13:49enabler of great iine is in short supply How do you attract truly world class talent Look i think world class people need world class problems to solve and we are incredibly lucky tohave a mission that attracts wonderful human beings who want to solve a great problem Um the
00:14:09realities that there are many other companies who deploy artificial intelligence ingrate size but often at the end the final purpose is to sell more advertising to people that that's it right And it is not that difficult to persuade people to solve one off the biggest problem humanity faces
00:14:33rather than to try to chuck more advertising in front of people's eyes what's most misunderstood are away today Oh everything i think You know for five years ago david when we started babylon three years ago if you were not a social network you didn't exist and then it
00:14:53became an on demand economy two years ago and now he's a i and because the knowledge is so low i'm sometimes get so shocked by people who just have a very basic rule base somewhere and they said now we're a a ay thing and it's on as people
00:15:08like you do what you're doing which is to educate what actually artificial intelligence is it takes that noise away but i'm hoping that eventually every technology company will become truly an aye aye company because i don't think artificial intelligence is yet another technology I think it's a game
00:15:29changing technology and it will have what it deserves She talks about the impact of air on healthcare specifically let me start the poor question how do you think i will impact health care Overall I think it will change everything We are on the verge of being able as
00:15:44i said at the very beginning off this conversation to put healthcare into the hands of every human being on earth never before on the face off the planet as has happened on we're not going to put a healthcare in hands of everybody on earth We're going to put
00:15:58eventually the best available healthcare we're going to do with helped her and i said well google did with information because it doesn't matter how rachel poor i am it doesn't matter whether i am in baku or in baltimore in kabul or ian in connecticut i have access to
00:16:15the same information to google that is just not true about health care The rich have much better healthier today than the poor it's no even with same league off healthier they have and i think we can equalize weaken truly democratize that we can make it possible for a
00:16:32peasant in india toe have exactly the same access to die gnosis to start with and healthcare eventually that the rich in washington or in california in addition to better provisional primary care Which parts of the health care system do you think a most right for destruction I think
00:16:50every part of health care will be disrupt everything about healthcare It's about to be this andi it's it is like it used to just look and it's happening in front of our eyes it used to cost me a million dollars to diagnose you On ly ten years ago
00:17:06twelve thirteen years ago today i can do that with ten thousand dollars top to toe untrue in your genome sequencing thanks a ninety nine per cent reduction in costs ofthe diagnosis you look a tte intervention everything from synthetic biology to electro biology from nano molecular engineering to organ
00:17:28reconstruction we are two genetic therapies we are fundamentally changing all the frontiers off medicine and i think while my grandparent's give or take received exactly the same kind of healthcare i received today my grandchildren will not recognize the industry we call healthcare today because it will be fundamentally
00:17:48different which dynamics in health care cause you isn entrepreneur most difficulty it's nani's e space no i think the vested interest that protects the old system in healthcare is the worst enemy of healthcare innovation anywhere in the world on i think it is a joy enormous shame that
00:18:12we forget how much problem we have with the existing model of delivery on we try to protect even our regulations are about the protection off the old system So for instance when somebody comes even from care quality commission in britain come on check safety The fact that i
00:18:33have to wait two to three weeks to see a gp is not part of the system off checking safety so you think about it right the very basic the fact that i have to walk into one of the most infected places on earth at the gp Surgery that
00:18:47many other people with diseases have come into is now part of safety check It is fascinating to me how much the old system defines our ability to innovate Let's talk a little more about the healthcare ecosystem in most sectors Regulatory bodies don't understand Aye aye very well spring
00:19:10You think it took ten fifteen years The last generation of computer aided diagnostics to work their way through ready she processes and health care How do you think the regulatory environment will evolve in the coming decades I think that is an excellent question because you put your finger
00:19:29on to the hunt onto one off the biggest breaks that the vested interests in the existing system of health care can apply onto innovations and disruption off the industry any can play both ways We are seeing some fantastic signs in fda an enema Ciara where by health care
00:19:51innovation is being seen as a priority on the regulators are tryingto work hard to understand and we're seeing a lot of pressure being put on the regulators on in some regulators In britain for instance we see sometimes they're very b basic they can get their head around not
00:20:09in a mess sorry but in other regulator anything I think this is going to be a world of two halfs there are going to be those regulators who will enable their country to become at the forefront ofthe innovations in health care and there would be those countries who
00:20:26will hold it back and i think the countries will hold it back unfortunately we fall behind on the countries who don't aunt will become the champions who will create and host companies who will become the global leaders in one of the world's largest industries can i push or
00:20:43change a little now that to what extent do you think regularly concerns ready Three headwinds are a function ofthe old school thinking vested interest etcetera versus a real recognition that to extent this isn't industry where as fully is in the case of others one can move fast and
00:21:05break things because the things you're breaking of people do you feel this bouncer or would you would you challenge I think i think i would challenge it because it assumes we're not breaking people interesting seating the status quo because the status cole it's incredibly bad we are all
00:21:23got used to it in britain this month i think around the thousand people will die off what we call avoidable mistakes one in four of us can get to see our gps at the time we need to run in five of us million people a month do not
00:21:38get to see the consultations they want to receive that is britain one of the richest countries in the world with one of the better health systems half a population off the world have no access to health care People are dying for very simple things even if that is
00:21:55in physical health If you have a mental health problem even in britain we ignore you We deny it to you Sixty percent off our kids who are in jails are people who are simple mental health issues that didn't deal with until that became as much bigger problem between
00:22:15addiction or or or other things so them current model is broken and it needs to be fixed However we have spent ten trillion dollars a year on it and that train train and dollars pays for a lot of vested interest Having said that you're absolutely right that we
00:22:33cannot allow a game off snake all salespeople in here either things need to be tested they need to be verified they need to be authenticated on We need to make sure that we don't let lose things that will hurt people but that means we need to make regulation
00:22:52not a barrier but an advert id off technology by making it fit for purpose Unfortunately much of the regulator the bodies we have currently two stone have the personnel will understand what they need to do often i mean you look at our even our care quality commission unfortunately
00:23:10how many people do they have in tow actually understand technology How many of them are not gps off retirement age A little more on the health care ecosystem the biodynamic in the uk it's obviously you need given the presence of the n hs what the dynamics of selling
00:23:27to the n hs maybe what But i've always point you give two entrepreneurs to help wth um gonna navigate that that challenge I used to be six foot four blue eyes and blonde hair and i now look like danny devito on dh i wish i knew the answer
00:23:43to that question i mean energies is not a single body it's a collection off many hospitals many gps many commissioning groups some off them are at the forefront ofthe innovation anywhere in the world They're wonderful people who are trying to do the best on are hungry to find
00:24:02the most innovative thing that solved the problem arms some are not like that might ing is find your champions locate them work with them the truth is vast majority hey have their heart and their mind in the right place they're sometimes fearful there's sometimes a scared there sometimes
00:24:21know that if they make a mistake the whole system goes down on them so you need to be patient unit work hard you need to accept setbacks you need to know that the system will push you back but eventually if you keep at it ah there appears to
00:24:38tamir leads to be enthusiasm for digitization on dh innovation at the highest levels off the government what the dynamics of translating that into frontline deployment is imagine that could be some reality gap in between just tell me a little bit about what what that looks like as i
00:24:54was saying the picture is very patchy so there are those who take the what they hear from the leadership on innovation and implement that there are doors who put brakes on it there those who have a whole series of varieties off interest that makes them not want to
00:25:14do it on dh some of those reasons are very good and soft those reasons unfortunately are things that we need to stamp out but i don't think is a unified picture and i don't think by the way any other countries any different i think any country when if
00:25:30it disruption was easy then we will succeed it takes time effort to build something especially in industry us establish us healthier let's talk a little bit about more about the dynamics of a eye technology and in health care to what extent anything users will be willing to trust
00:25:48a i based diagnosed existence i think people wore be a skeptical until they almost trusted and then they will absolutely trust so it's like everything else we were skeptical off using forms for fifty years the victorians didn't use phones until they did and then it became a big
00:26:09kiss on dh we die we are you know when twenty years ago almost today to the year where a computer beat kaspar off in the game of chess nobody really could happen and then when it happened it was immediate people said well that's it obviously machine can do
00:26:27that andi i think that once machine to start diagnosing for instance as well as humans on people try it untested and experiment with it and see its true and then go check with the doctor who says the same thing eventually everybody will do that actually will go further
00:26:43i believe knowing what i know and knowing bobby billy in two three years time and maybe that's five years time maybes one your time but in a short period of time it will be untrustworthy for a doctor to diagnose you without the use ofthe artificial intelligence it shall
00:27:02be actually my view negligent because no human brain can deal with the complexity that a machine can and will never have the precision the machine eventually well beyond triage when do you think reliable fully automated diagnoses of most conditions and a gp will be reality today we have
00:27:23it here now bbc horizon programme came here in june brought their doctors they tested it on a product that we will learn shortly wall for eighty percent off all primary care diseases will diagnose you very accurately We can already do that in our machines here only reason is
00:27:44not in our product yet Is those boundaries of computing that we're saying that we have to push to make it a experience that you readily enjoy or act with But the science is soft we've solved a scientific problem is not an engineering problem we need to solve and
00:28:04i'm sure other people are doing other things in other areas like this There is a love claim things which make the scene a little bit confusing for people but but some ofthe thes will come true and some off them i know are already coming true But that problem
00:28:22that you just said about diagnosis for most conditions that problem is solved scientifically that problem is soft Teething developers will have more impact on health care in the next decade And doctors yes in the same way that i think machines are having starting to have more effect on
00:28:40communications than journalistic and algorithms are having bigger effect on trading that then stop brokers audrey i think we're in a world in which some parts of medicine will become very machine driven But other past more no machine can put its hand on your shoulder and say david now
00:29:02that you know what your diagnosis is let me help you get through this that is a human job on will be for a next decade at least missing So you think there is an empathy piece that will remain human the medium term I think there is a human
00:29:19to human relationship and trust that will be there for the for the medium term and i think there is a piece about the sheer computational packer off machine that humans were very short to fall behind We touched on this earlier but let's talk a little bit about accessing
00:29:37data in health care This is all kind of dichotomy in health care where there's lots of data and yet accessibility to that data can be a challenge Can you describe how as a b to c company you overcome what's known as the cold start problem with lack of
00:29:51available training data So we had to spend almost two years solving that that very problem you just mentioned it takes a lot of time to take there data and then to create the knowledge and to teach the machine but you pass a level where you're good enough it's
00:30:11kind of like you get to a level where a doctor passes it exams and you feel that you can set them free on the wolf right on after that data acquisition becomes an incremental issue because every doctor every consultation they do they learn as i said that's why
00:30:29they call it practice on their data criminally i think we're just about the place where we pass that where we got enough data and have trained the machine enough to be able to die a nose for eighty percent of primary care diseases As i said on dh soon
00:30:43that number gets bigger and bigger and goes into a specialty diseases and so it will be now an incremental acquisition ofthe confirmatory data if you wish and in the early days i mean just how did you get a big enough quantum of training data in those two years
00:30:59So we had to pull off deals talked a lot of people a scrape alof data from places that will freely available isik approach from from a lot off areas because detained healthcare is incredibly disperse and it's available in different formats in different countries Yes And we also had
00:31:19a lot of data or knowledge sits in the mind of the doctor's eh So we had to hire a lof the doctors as you know to help us download their brain that the phrase it's all in the data has become a bit of a truism in a i
00:31:34often feel look proprietary algorithms are underrated among wrong no you're absolutely right The way i look at this is that if everybody if you and i have exactly the same library of books it does not mean that you and i are as knowledgeable as each other It's how
00:31:52we approached the library of books How much berated How will be understood it How welcome We articulate our knowledge that will differentiate us uniquely in the healthcare sector The aye aye Platform cos particular google ibm microsoft are actually developing applications as well as platforms and tools Are they
00:32:12competitors of yours Are they enablers Are they a bit of both How do you think So we i have not come across people in our space so we don't nobody else who's trying to diagnose at the extent that we are or predict your health or assess your health
00:32:31or create model's off you will be called digital twins A few that we consume relate your future in the way we have done but maybe they are doing this in some other part off their organization secretly that we don't know about But i have the big belief in
00:32:49focus I think there are things that we can do incredibly well better than anybody else in or so it doesn't faze me ever when big companies that you mentioned ho are big giants of aye aye Come into our space if they decide to come because at the end
00:33:07of the day they have to employ the same kind of people i have to employ They have to motivate and bring him in things so it becomes the micro problem rather than a macro solution Let me talk to a little bit about entrepreneurship More broadly babylon sells to
00:33:22consumers directly but also to employers and insurers who provide babble on to there they're nt users engaging with large byers is not easy to keep a very early stage companies What advice would you give to early stage companies Is that how they khun engage with large buys toe
00:33:40get results I think you must always remember that the rules ofthe adoption of technology that i think was rogers who came up with the adoption curve that two percent of people are extreme adopters Fifteen percent early adopters thirty five percent get you two next fifty five percent getyou
00:33:59too early majority so on and so forth is just true So when you do b to c you are the very first thing you do is you attract those two percent Two percent of the population of london who have downloaded babylon may sound like a small number of
00:34:13ice two hundred thousand people right but two percent off people inside the hospital's hierarchy are still only two percent of the management so it doesn't even matter if they include the ceo The other ninety eight percent are going to oppose it or distrusted or not believing it until
00:34:32you provide mohr evidence So then you get to the fifteen percent and so on and so far i have this theory that big organizations will buy you on mass when you have passed that early majority stage on Until then you will find an odd organization here and an
00:34:50odd entrepreneur inside an organization or a not innovator inside the company who soldiers on and adopts forces his organization to adopt you but they will become your two percent in corporate or they will become the people who will provide the references for you and eventually the forces ofthe
00:35:09just roots thie sheer reality of what you're doing will be become apparent to everybody and then people will come on mass We don't have time for the stories but i encourage your listeners shooting our lives as entrepreneurs are tough to look into the life ofthe cyrus field who
00:35:29laid the first cable across the atlantic at the time that nobody had created the cable that big new the wonder what's at the bottom of the ocean he i had to know only redefine the whole engineering There was no ship that can carry a cable that big all
00:35:46off those things but in the middle ofthe it he had a government in united states I went into civil war with another part of the country he had in in britain the government we decided to create a three year committee to study what he's doing on he soldiered
00:36:02on and it took him fifteen years But he put the first cable that fundamentally changed communication in the war by taking the distance from what used to be two to three weeks to two to three months into two to three minutes on monster cable was laid We think
00:36:20our life as an entrepreneur is tough but no big thing ever comes easily from your description is parent just how significant and numerous the challenges are when trying to change things What do you think off the personal characteristics that lead to entrepreneurial success I think you just need
00:36:41to be persistent aunt have a vision and a belief on dh work Hard to get to that belief I don't call somebody and on the set of a builder shop you are a business person If you create something new you're an entrepreneur if you copy somebody else you're
00:37:03again but being but having a vision that you believe in A vision off the future that you want to bring in is is a belief and unfortunately when that gets inside you there is and you believe in it there is nothing that can stop you that's why trump
00:37:21prayers remortgage their house is stop everything put all their life into the creation ofthe the future vision they have seen and they know they can bring in on dh people say or that's a really tough life actually think is a lovely life is a brilliant life i can't
00:37:38want to ever do anything else because it's a life off beliefs andi i think that our our life is so much more enriched when we have values by which we live it's like more pragmatic matter from a babylon's bean very effective at raising large amounts of capital you've
00:37:56raised roughly about eighty five million dollars so far at least can you describe how you think about capitalization is his capital er a strategic weapon for competitive advantage or do you think about it differently No i think capital to bring a vision to reality you need thio decide
00:38:16okay here is where i want to be what is it that i'm going to build how'm i gonna build this where am i going to deploy it When am i going to deploy on that tells you the answer to the big question which is which resource dough i
00:38:28need in order to do a lof that on to pay for the resource you need thio create capt bring capital i'm a big believer if you can to just in time delivery of capital as opposed to putting a huge amount in a bank and waiting for it but
00:38:46i am incredibly lucky tohave investors who share the same dream in the same vision who are not short term ist who don't want to just make four times their money and sell i have employees and senior management team who are not just after a bigger house in kensington
00:39:05they all we all are united in a simple belief that health care is broken but it can be democratized i can be made accessible affordable put in the hands of every human being on earth and when you belief in something so worry it become infectious and other people
00:39:25believing in it then they check and see that you know a dreamer that you have a real way of getting there but once you do we never found access to capital luckily so far a problem because the world is full of people read a lot ofthe money also
00:39:40have great values do you think more entrepreneurs failed youto lack of ambition or unsuccessful execution put the truth is every you know there is this line between each toll story starts one of its books where he says every successful marriages successful in exactly the same way that every
00:40:03failed marriage fails in its own unique way on dh that is true because too be successful in a marriage almost everything needs to come together right But any off those go wrong and things going on and being an entrepreneur and succeeding has as much to do with luck
00:40:21that it has to do with ambition as it has to do with execution caper but it's so many things has got to go right for you rebels having success in a range of developing economy's briefly what of the dynamics of working with developing economies as opposed to more
00:40:36developed economies It has his own challenges were fundamentally the problems are not as different as one thing so in wonder there are less doctors but they are very enthusiastic and want to do a great job so we have to do more with less number of people available There
00:40:52is some vested interested that it is here there's exactly the same amount ofthe ambition and desire to do good in there that he is in here people want the same thing for their children in rwanda that they want in uk it really doesn't matter what i found in
00:41:08life I'm an immigrant on di arrived in britain as a refugee and one of the things i found it is it really doesn't matter if i lived among the poor or the rich whether i was a native or a local whether i was in a developed country or
00:41:21a developing countries people everywhere have the same dreams they just have different opportunities You immigrated to the u k from iran immigrants have founded forty percent fourteen five hundred companies why do you think that is I didn't know that but i think it has to do with the
00:41:40fact that being an immigrant itself selected group for anyway so you have dislocated yourself I don't know my case at the age of fifteen i left my family i walked across the globe i got here on one of these refugees you see arriving in this country and then
00:41:55we put a barrier in front of them I almost think that there is no better job interview you could do right This person has done everything to get to should over i mean honestly what else to be one of them today They're not haven't come all this way
00:42:09to just collect the paycheck They come here to make a better future for themselves on by definition for people around them and the country So i think that but there is something in the group that select themselves to do that i also think there is something in the
00:42:25fact that when we arrived here we have nothing and therefore when we take a risk it's not as if you're going to lose in it on then once we have built things i always look at myself and said well what happens if i lose everything been lucky I've
00:42:41got enough today but if i lose everything or go back to where i wass when i first arrived and actually wasn't that bad either i had a great time as a youngster in this country so you actually learned not to be afraid because he's not as bad as
00:42:56you want things so if you were born in a certain level of comfort and if you haven't had what mark and gravel cole's desirable difficulties in your life then sometimes you just self century yourself out of opportunities because of fear his brexit having impact on your business so
00:43:14far it hasn't but i am an immigrant on arm a believer in unity and a movement of people on dh in transfer of ideas and i can't imagine how a less open britain will be a better britain but i may be wrong i have often proved wrong in
00:43:34my life we're about out of time alley i wonder if we could finish with our traditional quickfire round i've got six or seven questions maybe just one or two word answers each please firstly is the promise of a i overhyped no beyond healthcare in which sector d thing
00:43:49i will have props most profound impact every single sector you can think about artificial intelligence will change do you think i will destroy more jobs than it creates in the short term Absolutely should we worry a lot about autonomous weapons systems absolutely and not just about that as
00:44:10somebody who's engaged in this industry we should be incredibly careful about the creation of artificial intelligence on it's because we just don't know the and forcing consequences it can have it is developing much faster than we can think about and those who say it can be an existentialist
00:44:30threat to humanity could be very right and equally it could be the biggest liberating thing for humanity to but it could go either way and it is up to us to manage it right this is two fascinating for me just get the next one and every nearly out
00:44:47of time could you just tell me a little bit more about that with the nature of the existential think the nature of the opportunity i think pretty well understood what worries you about the other path everything look imagine the way we train on agent and imagine if you
00:45:02take a theoretical solution where you create an old empowering machine and you say look make sure that our planet is at its best thing right This machine had all the capabilities of figure itself out actually the biggest destroyer off the planet is humanity what should we do there
00:45:21Imagine we change that and say okay your job is to make sure humans private the best possible morse optimal way well again maybe if we reduce the number of humans look the rest of them will have a betters some game you just don't know how these intelligence that
00:45:38is becoming so superior suki is capable and so connected and now mixed with all sorts of mechanical powers can do to a very you know simple alternative which is the humans on the other side so i think we should be incredibly careful this is not this is not
00:46:01an old gain and over lost your quickfire questions do you think will achieve the circled i singularity when general aye aye triggers are the period of perhaps unprecedented technological change i come from the middle east and middle east they say if you won't go to laugh you give
00:46:19him your two year plan i have no idea but it is one off the possibilities but there are many many others and finally should a i systems off sufficient intelligence have rights should any intelligence have right Of course we do write what's the difference between a human being
00:46:38and a machine off equal intelligence or even superior intelligence and feelings and what what are we are brain is in is in your machine right So i actually also think that as somebody who's got animals animals have a huge amount of intelligence not at all levels were lower
00:46:54level but often with no rights and treated as slaves right So i think that is a profound question for which we don't have time but everybody every kind of intelligence should have the right not to be trampled on and this has been a great pleasure Thank you for
00:47:09your insight Thank you so much We hope you've enjoyed this episode of mmc ventures beyond the high podcast presented in association with barclays Follow us on twitter at mmc underscore ventures and explore a research at mmc ventures Dot com don't miss on next episode fixing finance where leading
00:47:27executives from barclays director of strategic transformation stephen roberts and head of data technologies and she learning robot er describe the opportunities and challenges of deploying a i in a financial services organization that touches a third of the population every day

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