Full Transcript for Third Quarter Favs with Renee from It's Book Talk

in a second. 00:04:45.204 --> 00:04:53.550 Sometimes I think, and we've talked about this before, when you're reading a lot, which we tend to do, a standout is sometimes hard, and you don't always realize it. 00:04:53.560 --> 00:04:55.940 Like, there's a lot of things I've been reading, I'm like,"That's a really good book. 00:04:55.961 --> 00:04:56.831 I would recommend that book. 00:04:56.831 --> 00:04:57.420 That's a good book. 00:04:57.420 --> 00:05:11.427 That's a good book." And then you hit on something that you're like,"That's an amazing book." And I've had less amazing, but the ones that I've had that I thought were amazing were really spectacular. 00:05:11.668 --> 00:05:19.858 And then a lot of like, I don't know that I had any this quarter that I didn't, I really didn't like this." which is luck, I think, more than anything. 00:05:20.028 --> 00:05:24.677 But a lot of debuts still, which I love, and debuts are still knocking it out of the park. 00:05:24.838 --> 00:05:25.827 So yeah, how about you? 00:05:25.971 --> 00:05:33.958 It's been a summer of nonfiction reading and backlist reading, saving my reading basically. 00:05:34.327 --> 00:05:44.358 So if anyone is listening and they are tired or just you don't wanna hear about new releases, well, I am bringing one new release but it is a memoir. 00:05:44.507 --> 00:06:04.331 other than that, I have all backlist and then nonfiction, but I went through a period where I have a lot of stressors going on in my personal life and I was trying to, find a fiction, sampling, sampling, and then finally I just went to nonfiction and oh my gosh, that has saved me. 00:06:04.401 --> 00:06:05.161 It has saved me. 00:06:05.161 --> 00:06:11.668 So I'm bringing a couple of those today, but I don't know what's going on with me and new releases this summer. 00:06:11.827 --> 00:06:16.137 I have DNF'd a lot of new releases, a lot. 00:06:16.187 --> 00:06:25.377 I have, a couple fall reads that I read early that were disappointing and I will, just say one of, one of them is Stations by Louise Kennedy. 00:06:26.213 --> 00:06:27.064 Oh, no 00:06:27.648 --> 00:06:34.137 know, I, you know I was looking forward to that so much, so that, that's a bummer. 00:06:34.288 --> 00:06:35.048 Yeah, that's a bummer. 00:06:35.158 --> 00:06:52.557 And y- I believe I shared over on my Substack some of my thoughts on that, but really the short of why I, just didn't like it is I never connected, I never believed the two main characters, Roshan and Red. 00:06:52.658 --> 00:07:22.307 I never believed that they were, I never believed their connection or that they were ever, in love And so that was tough So anyway, I hate to start off with a bummer but I also don't like when people mention DNFs and I don't wanna allude to like everything and not give you the title and say what it was, so but that was a huge disappointment and I feel like that kind of started my spiral into new releases just not going great for me this summer 00:07:22.440

--> 00:07:23.011 Interesting. 00:07:23.110 --> 00:07:25.271 Okay, well then let's go into one that did work for you 00:07:25.550 --> 00:07:25.899 Okay. 00:07:26.329 --> 00:07:30.860 And I just finished this last week, on audio. 00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:32.149 It is a memoir. 00:07:32.149 --> 00:07:37.709 It's Storytelling: A Writing Life, the new memoir by Isabel Allende. 00:07:38.670 --> 00:07:40.720 Oh my gosh. 00:07:40.970 --> 00:07:47.910 And when I pick up a book about writing by anybody, I'm always like,"I don't know if this is gonna engage me. 00:07:48.199 --> 00:07:51.399 This was a total binge listen. 00:07:52.009 --> 00:07:54.509 I listened to this in one day. 00:07:54.850 --> 00:08:07.670 This is the deeply personal and insightful new memoir by Isabel Allende, which delves into her creative process and her reflections on almost 50 years of writing. 00:08:07.930 --> 00:08:17.456 Now, if you remember from like way back when we did our first quarter, her backlist book, A Long Petal of the Sea, was a favorite of mine. 00:08:17.476 --> 00:08:20.997 It is still very likely my top book of the year. 00:08:21.476 --> 00:08:23.836 So I've read several of her books. 00:08:24.057 --> 00:08:25.916 I've loved everything I have read. 00:08:26.427 --> 00:08:38.279 And in this new memoir, and it's out now, so it came out Tuesday the 15th, and I want to share the blurb exactly as the publisher gave it because I agree with every single word. 00:08:38.330 --> 00:08:39.909 So I'm just gonna use what they said. 00:08:40.269 --> 00:08:43.169 "Storytelling is not a prescriptive guide to writing. 00:08:43.429 --> 00:08:45.870 Rather, it is a conversation. 00:08:46.123 --> 00:08:54.200 In it, Isabel Allende shares her triumphs, her mistakes, and the lessons learned through the challenges and joys of writing. 00:08:54.559 --> 00:09:13.350 She intertwines her own stories with invaluable wisdom for anyone pursuing the craft, making this book equally a memoir and a master class in the alchemy of storytelling and a celebration of the enduring power of narrative." 100% agree. 00:09:14.110 --> 00:09:31.349 I could not describe this book any better, so hats off to the publisher for that one I said, I binged this, and then, Brett, as soon as I finished, I immediately, because this- I finished it before the book came out, I immediately pre-ordered the print copy immediately. 00:09:31.556 --> 00:09:36.495 So because there's so much I wanna highlight, I, I was just like,"I have to have the print. 00:09:36.655 --> 00:09:39.775 I have to reread this." There's so much wisdom. 00:09:39.905 --> 00:09:42.525 I mean, she was 80 when she wrote this. 00:09:42.605 --> 00:09:43.885 She's now currently 84. 00:09:45.505 --> 00:09:46.865 So much wisdom. 00:09:47.135 --> 00:09:52.255 She also talks about her favorite books over the years, which is gold. 00:09:52.855 --> 00:09:57.225 And so the narrator of the audiobook is not Isabel Allende. 00:09:57.225 --> 00:10:00.875 Did a fantastic job, and I'm sorry I don't have her name in front of me. 00:10:00.895 --> 00:10:03.145 I think it's Victoria was her first name. 00:10:03.273 --> 00:10:19.582 I will say, if you out there listening, if you've loved any of her books, if you are dreaming of writing a book or are actively writing a book, or if you just enjoy, quote,"wisdom stories," I think you will love this. 00:10:19.722 --> 00:10:20.523 I really do. 00:10:20.552 --> 00:10:21.332 It's funny. 00:10:21.373 --> 00:10:22.212 It's honest. 00:10:22.243 --> 00:10:23.452 It's insightful. 00:10:23.452 --> 00:10:24.863 Five easy stars. 00:10:24.883 --> 00:10:31.436 One of my favorite books, not only of the quarter, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is in my top 10. 00:10:31.436 --> 00:10:35.196 It's Storytelling: A Writing Life by Isabel Allende 00:10:35.355 --> 00:10:36.716 Wow, that sounds amazing. 00:10:36.910 --> 00:10:37.120 So 00:10:37.243 --> 00:10:39.962 I think House of the Spirits is the only thing I've read by her. 00:10:40.600 --> 00:10:42.041 And I haven't read that one. 00:10:42.187 --> 00:10:46.236 she talks a lot about that book and I haven't read that one yet 00:10:46.688 --> 00:10:52.609 there's a lot of these books, like I know Michael Cunningham just came out with his book on writing, and then there's somebody else. 00:10:52.629 --> 00:10:53.568 It was it Tom Wolfe? 00:10:53.568 --> 00:10:55.068 Harlan Coben has a new, I 00:10:55.147 --> 00:10:55.866 Harlan Coben. 00:10:55.886 --> 00:10:56.376 That's it. 00:10:56.777 --> 00:10:57.136 That's 00:10:57.288 --> 00:10:58.609 the title, Plot Twist. 00:10:59.086 --> 00:11:00.206 Yes, that's it 00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:00.639 Yep. 00:11:00.938 --> 00:11:01.259 Yeah. 00:11:01.363 --> 00:11:02.182 Okay, how about you? 00:11:02.369 --> 00:11:08.009 Okay, my first one, is a, Frontlist book, which, is Land by Maggie O'Farrell. 00:11:08.548 --> 00:11:09.528 Ooh, okay 00:11:09.658 --> 00:11:19.139 So it's funny because Going back, Hamnet was my favorite book that I read that year, and then I read The Marriage Portrait, and it's not that I was overly disappointed. 00:11:19.149 --> 00:11:21.298 It was a completely readable book. 00:11:21.298 --> 00:11:22.019 It was good. 00:11:22.298 --> 00:11:34.019 I just think coming off of Hamnet, I was kind of like,"Okay, I was expecting more." Well, this kind of reaffirmed how amazing she is to me, and I still can't believe it, that it hasn't been longlisted on the Booker list. 00:11:34.479 --> 00:11:39.639 This is set in Ireland in 1865 after the Great Hunger. 00:11:39.999 --> 00:11:50.078 Tomas and his son Liam work on mapping the country when an unsettling encounter changes their lives and this exploration of colonization, survival, and history's persistence. 00:11:50.405 --> 00:11:52.859 The audio is so good. 00:11:53.092 --> 00:11:54.783 I'm one of those people, I think we've talked about this before. 00:11:54.793 --> 00:12:05.230 If I'm, if I'm reading a book that's set somewhere that's not

America, there's something to me about hearing a dialect that really kind of immerses me in the story. 00:12:05.414 --> 00:12:10.835 So this narrator, Dane White O'Hara, he is fantastic. 00:12:11.315 --> 00:12:12.745 The story is just... 00:12:13.065 --> 00:12:13.924 It's epic. 00:12:13.934 --> 00:12:15.634 It's this one family. 00:12:15.904 --> 00:12:21.815 I, I honestly could have stayed with them for so much longer than the book was. 00:12:22.284 --> 00:12:25.914 But her descriptions of the land, it's just... 00:12:26.067 --> 00:12:28.530 It's such an exquisitely beautiful novel. 00:12:28.640 --> 00:12:34.585 I was so with it So yeah, I, I, feel like this is probably gonna be in my top 10 of the year, but I just loved it. 00:12:34.595 --> 00:12:36.325 So that's Land by Maggie O'Farrell 00:12:36.985 --> 00:12:37.456 Okay. 00:12:37.546 --> 00:12:38.186 Quick question. 00:12:38.775 --> 00:12:50.548 Would you say, I, I don't know if I, I have seen this around somewhere where so- where some people had said it's one of those books that takes the 40 or 50 pages to get into. 00:12:50.558 --> 00:12:52.349 Did you find that to be the case? 00:12:52.716 --> 00:12:54.937 I didn't find that to be the case myself. 00:12:55.027 --> 00:12:57.736 But I do think it's a, it's a measured narrative. 00:12:57.777 --> 00:13:00.246 I don't think you're getting into it and being like, boom. 00:13:00.297 --> 00:13:01.917 It's not that kind of book. 00:13:02.317 --> 00:13:05.397 Um, but I was in the place for what it was. 00:13:05.697 --> 00:13:12.494 And so I think maybe some people have an expectation that, you know, there's gonna be more action, or there's gonna be this right out of the gate. 00:13:12.576 --> 00:13:17.985 And, I don't know, I kind of trusted her as she kind of unspooled everything. 00:13:18.225 --> 00:13:19.186 So it worked for me 00:13:19.683 --> 00:13:20.244 Okay, good. 00:13:20.453 --> 00:13:24.874 I have only read Hamnet and The Marriage Portrait, both five stars for me. 00:13:25.423 --> 00:13:27.464 So I f- I 00:13:27.621 --> 00:13:28.751 you'll be into it, I think 00:13:28.774 --> 00:13:31.533 w- I would trust her to take me there. 00:13:32.207 --> 00:13:32.597 Yeah. 00:13:32.677 --> 00:13:33.118 Yes 00:13:33.376 --> 00:13:33.716 Okay. 00:13:34.048 --> 00:13:50.422 Brett, for my next book I loved, I'm going back to a book that was published in 1970, and I picked up on a Barnes Noble bookstore browse, um, because of the cover caught my eye, and I did remember the title when I saw it. 00:13:50.662 --> 00:13:53.011 It's Love Story by Erich Segal. 00:13:53.307 --> 00:13:53.498 Yeah. 00:13:53.498 --> 00:13:54.148 Oh my God, 00:13:54.351 --> 00:14:06.511 had never read this or I, and I also have not seen the movie, and I just, I saw this and it's got that, the new 50th anniversary edition, which is the one I bought. 00:14:07.101 --> 00:14:13.851 It's got the, like, pastely kind of colors that popped when it was forward-facing on the shelf at Barnes Noble. 00:14:14.111 --> 00:14:15.831 And I'm like, I love a love story. 00:14:15.881 --> 00:14:20.296 I love a love story." So I picked it up off the shelf, and I opened it up. 00:14:20.296 --> 00:14:23.995 The first line of Love Story immediately sold me. 00:14:24.015 --> 00:14:24.905 I bought the book. 00:14:24.946 --> 00:14:33.389 The first line is,"What can you say about a 25-year-old girl who died?" I was like,"I don't know, but I do know I need to know everything. 00:14:33.658 --> 00:14:34.769 Who was she? 00:14:34.778 --> 00:14:35.479 What happened? 00:14:35.808 --> 00:14:40.322 How did it all tie into a love story?" So like I said, I immediately bought this. 00:14:40.572 --> 00:14:54.446 The 50th anniversary edition does have an introduction by the author's daughter, but I didn't read that till the very end because I didn't want to be spoiled, and I tend to think intro- the introductions can sometimes spoil what happens in the book. 00:14:54.609 --> 00:14:57.239 So I read this in one sitting. 00:14:57.458 --> 00:15:00.089 This is a story of Oliver and Jennifer. 00:15:00.479 --> 00:15:09.099 Oliver is a rich jock from a stuffy WASP family on his way to a Harvard degree and a career in law. 00:15:09.221 --> 00:15:15.822 And Jenny Cavilleri is a wise-cracking working-class girl studying music at Radcliffe. 00:15:16.461 --> 00:15:18.981 They are opposites in nearly every way. 00:15:19.422 --> 00:15:25.275 Oliver and Jenny are also kindred spirits from vastly different worlds. 00:15:25.576 --> 00:15:29.765 Their attraction to each other is immediate and powerful. 00:15:30.296 --> 00:15:31.686 I mean, say no more. 00:15:31.745 --> 00:15:33.196 this is their love story. 00:15:33.505 --> 00:15:37.755 Yes, it's a complicated and tragic love story, and I cried. 00:15:37.926 --> 00:15:40.015 I knew what the first sentence was. 00:15:40.046 --> 00:15:46.515 I mean, the first sentence tells us what happens, and I thought,"Well, now, okay. 00:15:46.556 --> 00:15:48.586 I..." I still cried. 00:15:48.836 --> 00:15:49.655 I loved it. 00:15:50.066 --> 00:16:02.755 I immediately passed it on to my mom, and here's my exact words to her:"This is not great literature, but it's so good, and you'll finish it so quick." And then I gave it to my mom. 00:16:02.755 --> 00:16:07.485 She texted me the next night and said I fin- she finished it in a couple hours and loved it. 00:16:07.594 --> 00:16:11.114 it's not great literature, but man, I couldn't put it down. 00:16:11.134 --> 00:16:14.894 It's bittersweet, it's tragic, it's messy. 00:16:15.024 --> 00:16:21.214 Keep in mind it's published in 1970, so it's not perfect, but it delivered. 00:16:21.397 --> 00:16:22.047 I loved it. 00:16:22.076 --> 00:16:24.216 It's Love Story by Erich Segal 00:16:24.386 --> 00:16:26.956 And wasn't it Ali MacGraw and Ryan O'Neal? 00:16:26.996 --> 00:16:27.567 Weren't they the... 00:16:27.576 --> 00:16:27.937 Yes. 00:16:28.091 --> 00:16:28.441 yes. 00:16:28.701 --> 00:16:29.120 Um,

00:16:29.147 --> 00:16:30.647 Now you have to watch the movie. 00:16:30.687 --> 00:16:31.716 You have to find the movie 00:16:32.321 --> 00:16:33.671 I do need to watch the movie. 00:16:33.671 --> 00:16:41.801 I did some Googling'Cause, I mean, it was a phenomenon, and I, I had fun going down that, like, little rabbit hole to read more about it. 00:16:41.811 --> 00:16:45.221 So I saw the movie trailer pictures or whatever. 00:16:45.650 --> 00:16:46.410 Oh my God. 00:16:46.551 --> 00:16:51.660 Yeah, I can completely see it, and I get almost like the tagline like,"Love means never having to say you're sorry." 00:16:51.725 --> 00:16:52.154 Yes. 00:16:52.634 --> 00:16:53.475 Yes, that is. 00:16:54.075 --> 00:16:54.335 Yes. 00:16:54.914 --> 00:16:57.544 That's where, that, that's exactly where that came from. 00:16:57.544 --> 00:16:57.965 Yes. 00:16:58.149 --> 00:16:58.538 Yes. 00:16:58.969 --> 00:17:01.149 Oh my God, so funny. 00:17:01.565 --> 00:17:02.924 Blast from the past 00:17:03.448 --> 00:17:04.699 Total blast from the past. 00:17:04.699 --> 00:17:05.328 I love that. 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:10.368 Okay, so my next one, this, totally surprised me, and it's getting a lot of love right now. 00:17:10.388 --> 00:17:13.788 It is on the Booker long list, which I was surprised about. 00:17:13.858 --> 00:17:18.179 Not surprised about because I didn't think it was good, I was just like,"Oh, wow." But I love this thing. 00:17:18.209 --> 00:17:19.999 It's Switzie by Emma Cline. 00:17:20.192 --> 00:17:27.102 "A mesmerizing portrait of an aging man's last pilgrimage," from the New York Times bestselling author of The Girls and The Guest. 00:17:27.412 --> 00:17:30.751 "A private plane cuts through the winter night somewhere over Greenland. 00:17:31.142 --> 00:17:35.771 David, a retired executive, sits back in his leather seat playing solitaire on his phone. 00:17:36.142 --> 00:17:44.531 The notebook in his jacket pocket is filled with familiar phrases, urgent reminders to himself, but he struggles to recognize his own handwriting. 00:17:44.642 --> 00:17:49.531 A mystery among many mysteries, the world once so knowable has been rendered inscrutable. 00:17:49.811 --> 00:17:51.412 This is what David knows. 00:17:51.496 --> 00:17:56.026 Cody, his assistant, asleep in the seat next to him, will shepherd him along the voyage. 00:17:56.236 --> 00:18:02.615 A stopover in London, dinner with his adult daughter, a meeting in France with an old friend estranged for decades. 00:18:02.846 --> 00:18:05.336 His final destination is Zurich. 00:18:05.746 --> 00:18:10.875 David glides through hotel rooms and airports in foreign cities, running out the clock on his mortal life. 00:18:11.066 --> 00:18:14.596 His grasp on the present slips away, and the past rushes in. 00:18:14.895 --> 00:18:23.885 The Sunday roasts of childhood, the stiff clothes meant only for church, a summer at a school friend's house, the losses and missteps that punctuate a life. 00:18:24.155 --> 00:18:32.776 As David's arrival in Zurich looms, an exquisitely rendered portrait of an unraveling mind emerges, both darkly humorous and profoundly moving. 00:18:33.036 --> 00:18:48.828 Hypnotic and startlingly original, Switzie probes the depths of human consciousness, revealing what a man is left with when the accomplishments and compromises that have defined him and the illusions he relied on vanish." I thought this was so good. 00:18:49.239 --> 00:18:53.719 And what a way to present someone with advancing dementia. 00:18:54.239 --> 00:19:03.999 Sometimes it's just, like, stream of consciousness that feels disjointed and as, the past comes in so much more prevalently than what's going on in the, in the present. 00:19:04.108 --> 00:19:08.019 And I thought it was so right on. 00:19:08.459 --> 00:19:26.214 And I found it just very moving and, and sobering It also for anybody who has known anybody with either Alzheimer's or dementia, I just thought it was incredibly insightful to present this the way that she did. 00:19:26.367 --> 00:19:26.798 I don't know. 00:19:26.798 --> 00:19:29.857 I thought it was really smart, I just thought it was great. 00:19:29.867 --> 00:19:31.458 So that's Switzy by Emma Cline 00:19:32.394 --> 00:19:32.854 Okay. 00:19:33.473 --> 00:19:35.423 So I know we're not doing our current reads,. 00:19:35.523 --> 00:19:36.683 but I'll tell you here. 00:19:36.713 --> 00:19:42.288 So I'm 18% into this, and I li- well, I like it. 00:19:42.317 --> 00:20:00.198 I've, I've s- paused it for just a couple days because I, like I told you, I've had so much going on that it felt a little hard to be in his mind in, in dealing with everything he's dealing with while I've also got stuff in my own life. 00:20:00.344 --> 00:20:04.364 And so I paused it, but I, I think I will... 00:20:04.614 --> 00:20:09.384 I will return because I wanna know what I think about it, and I wanna know where it's going. 00:20:09.933 --> 00:20:16.784 And like I said, I'm only 18%, so I believe where I'm at, he just arrived in London, in... 00:20:16.933 --> 00:20:18.354 So his first destination 00:20:18.961 --> 00:20:26.001 and I will say there is a disjointedness to it because of the nature of what he's experiencing. 00:20:26.392 --> 00:20:39.058 There are moments when you're like,"What is he talking about?" Because it, sometimes it's just words, and sometimes it's just as he's trying to parse out what actually is going on, and then the assistant will come in and remind him of something. 00:20:39.489 --> 00:20:44.015 So I guess I would say for anybody who reads it, you kind of have to, you have to go with it. 00:20:44.045 --> 00:20:51.265 You have to kind of let over to it and, and, and it all kind of makes sense as the narrative continues to unspool. 00:20:51.295 --> 00:20:54.494 I mean, a lot of the threads that she's, she's laying out. 00:20:54.744 --> 00:20:59.961 But, um, I just hadn't read anything like that before in terms of the kind of inventiveness.

00:20:59.961 --> 00:21:06.461 I would fully acknowledge there is a, a certain element that's like go with it, but it paid off for me. 00:21:07.001 --> 00:21:08.731 So I'll be interested to see how you think of it at the end 00:21:09.508 --> 00:21:10.327 Okay, me too. 00:21:10.738 --> 00:21:20.998 All right, next I am gonna go to my five-star fiction that I believe I read in July. 00:21:21.211 --> 00:21:33.691 Oh gosh, trusted author alert, and I don't know how I missed this, because I love Renée Somehow I missed Sleeping Giants, and it came out in 2024, I believe. 00:21:34.340 --> 00:21:42.010 And this summer I was like,"How come I haven't read Sleeping Giants?" So I grabbed the audiobook, which was narrated by Alex Hyde White. 00:21:42.124 --> 00:21:43.513 Loved it on audio. 00:21:44.304 --> 00:21:48.753 This is, as I said, mystery and thriller, more literary thriller. 00:21:48.784 --> 00:21:51.683 This is not, like, fast-paced action thriller. 00:21:52.374 --> 00:21:53.703 Definitely mystery. 00:21:53.784 --> 00:22:14.508 So this is set in a time period, in the opening scenes, which were chef's kiss,, we have a nine-year-old boy, and he is running and he's being chased, and he ends up being swept away by powerful waves on a remote Oregon beach, and his body is lost to the sea. 00:22:14.667 --> 00:22:18.917 Only a stone memorial, remains to mark his tragic death. 00:22:19.188 --> 00:22:33.788 Cut to then fast-forward 20 years in the future, and we meet Amanda, who has no idea or had no idea that she had an older brother named Dennis Owens, or that he had died. 00:22:34.258 --> 00:22:45.798 She was adopted as a baby and then learned about him later while looking into her late birth mother, and she's reached a place in her life where she's curious to know more about this lost brother. 00:22:46.208 --> 00:22:47.657 Okay, we have that. 00:22:47.907 --> 00:22:51.617 Then we also have retired police officer Larry Palmer. 00:22:51.784 --> 00:23:04.923 He is a widower with nothing but time and in need of a purpose, and he ends up offering to help Amanda find answers, and their search will lead to shocking and heartbreaking discoveries. 00:23:05.483 --> 00:23:12.773 And I am, like, I butchered the synopsis because I really think this is a this is what you need to know. 00:23:12.884 --> 00:23:14.144 This is the bare minimum. 00:23:14.663 --> 00:23:25.403 It's like I said, it's set on the Oregon coast, and it, a lot of it takes place, it does a back and forth kind of past and present timeline, which sometimes often does not work for me. 00:23:25.624 --> 00:23:27.463 In this story it did. 00:23:27.631 --> 00:23:31.760 And so the opening scene managed to create that rising tension. 00:23:31.830 --> 00:23:32.881 I loved everything. 00:23:32.881 --> 00:23:44.428 It was very main setting in the past timeline is a reform school, and that is put in quotes'cause there wasn't no reforming being done. 00:23:44.807 --> 00:23:47.887 It was heartbreaking to read about

these children. 00:23:47.971 --> 00:24:02.598 And the three main characters though, because we do find out about who that nine-year-old boy was, and then we find out about Amanda, and then we also have Larry- uh, I thought all three main characters felt like real people. 00:24:03.019 --> 00:24:07.318 There is a web of mystery surrounding everyone in this community. 00:24:07.365 --> 00:24:12.336 And as I said, this is not a fast-paced thriller, but I flew through it. 00:24:12.638 --> 00:24:28.648 One thing, and there are many, that Renée Denfeld excels at is weaving themes of morality, trauma, right and wrong, compassion, hope, and resilience into a story that starts with a bang and never lets up. 00:24:28.929 --> 00:24:36.118 So I had a lot of fun attempting and failing to figure out the underlying mystery. 00:24:36.328 --> 00:24:36.949 I love it. 00:24:36.979 --> 00:25:08.102 I love it when I can't figure it out, which is, I mean, I, I don't often figure things out, and Like I said, it was heartbreaking, but also it was fun to read, and I really, really identified with a lot of the, the caretakers and the, the people in the community who tried to help because I have, I have the social work background in foster care, and so I love that Renée Denfeld typ- typically brings themes like that into her writing, I just loved it. 00:25:08.102 --> 00:25:08.692 I loved it. 00:25:08.721 --> 00:25:12.051 It was, it was a combination of everything that I love. 00:25:12.162 --> 00:25:14.459 The ending was perfection. 00:25:14.699 --> 00:25:19.429 So if that sounds good to you, it's Sleeping Giants by Renée Denfeld 00:25:20.198 --> 00:25:22.238 Okay, so this is my, back list. 00:25:22.347 --> 00:25:32.231 One of the things that I've been doing this year with a group over on Instagram is, we've been reading the whole, James Baldwin cannon, which has been truly an amazing experience. 00:25:32.281 --> 00:25:53.444 And, the funny thing is I'd only read before this Giovanni's Room, which is amazing book, but last summer, and it ended up being one of my favorite books of the year, I read Nicholas Boggs biography of James Baldwin, which was kind of weird because, again, I haven't read enough, but it was getting great reviews and I just thought,"Oh, I'm interested in this," and I loved it. 00:25:53.464 --> 00:26:01.825 I, I read half of it and then we were going on vacation, so I ended up downloading the book and listening to a lot of it while, we were on vacation. 00:26:02.018 --> 00:26:10.454 And so it kind of laid this foundation for a lot of this, and gave context to a lot of these books and where he was coming from. 00:26:10.845 --> 00:26:13.105 So we've read, eight books. 00:26:13.105 --> 00:26:13.325 Now. 00:26:13.811 --> 00:26:19.182 And this one I never hear people talk about,\ which is Tell Me How Long the Train's Been Gone. 00:26:19.288 --> 00:26:25.112 It is so good, and I think part of why I... 00:26:25.281 --> 00:26:26.912 Well, let me give you the description first. 00:26:27.092 --> 00:26:40.471 It says,"In this magnificently passionate, angry, and tender novel, James Baldwin created one of his most striking characters, a man struggling to become himself even as he juggles multiple identities as Black man, bisexual, and artist. 00:26:40.731 --> 00:26:44.561 On the mercilessly floodlit stage of American public life. 00:26:44.882 --> 00:26:49.481 At the height of his theatrical career, the actor Leo Proudhammer is nearly felled by a heart attack. 00:26:49.811 --> 00:26:57.241 As he hovers between life and death, Baldwin shows the choices that have made him enviable, famous, and terrifyingly vulnerable. 00:26:57.672 --> 00:27:06.951 For between Leo's childhood on the streets of Harlem and his arrival into the intoxicating world of the theater lies a wilderness of desire and loss, shame, and rage. 00:27:07.251 --> 00:27:09.711 An adored older brother vanishes into prison. 00:27:09.981 --> 00:27:16.511 There are love affairs with a white woman and a younger Black man, each of whom will make irresistible claims on Leo's loyalty. 00:27:16.902 --> 00:27:23.942 And everywhere there is the anguish of being Black in a society that at times seems poised on the brink of a total racial war. 00:27:24.362 --> 00:27:33.801 Overpowering in its vitality, extravagant in the intensity of its feelings, Tell Me How Long This Train's Been Gone is a major work of American literature." Oh my gosh. 00:27:34.041 --> 00:27:39.108 First of all, I think part of it was I, I haven't read a book in a while about an actor. 00:27:39.229 --> 00:27:43.882 I don't even remember, maybe the, Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo. 00:27:43.882 --> 00:27:45.471 That could've been, like, the last one. 00:27:45.598 --> 00:27:54.778 But, Baldwin had this whole fascination with the theater and really wanted to be involved in the theater, and was, and worked for years to try to adapt a production of Giovanni's Room. 00:27:55.038 --> 00:27:58.219 So I felt like he was pulling on so much of that here. 00:27:58.648 --> 00:28:00.959 But this character was just so fascinating. 00:28:00.979 --> 00:28:05.429 I love the dynamics with his brother, um, and his family. 00:28:05.536 --> 00:28:13.006 Something that I've found so fascinating just generally with James Baldwin is all of his books could've been written, like, yesterday. 00:28:13.346 --> 00:28:24.342 Unfortunately, so many of the things that he's bringing up, especially surrounding race, have not changed that much, or they've regressed, or we've kind of stagnated. 00:28:24.506 --> 00:28:30.546 He writes, um, with such a, passion that they're also... 00:28:31.546 --> 00:28:33.596 Again, these things are written in the'60s and the'70s. 00:28:33.976 --> 00:28:35.465 They're very sexual. 00:28:35.746 --> 00:28:40.125 The language, all of it is kind of almost jarring to me. 00:28:40.385 --> 00:28:49.276 And I, I, I wonder sometimes how people of that era or time received these books because they're

so... 00:28:49.618 --> 00:28:52.378 I don't wanna say graphic because that makes it sound like it's too 00:28:52.499 --> 00:28:53.848 Maybe explicit 00:28:54.259 --> 00:28:55.388 Explicit is great. 00:28:55.439 --> 00:29:05.939 Yeah, they are explicit in terms of how people talk and, certainly the sexual angle of it, but it's also very real and, I just found this a completely captivating character. 00:29:06.076 --> 00:29:10.625 I think this book gets overshadowed by, both Giovanni's Room and If Beale Street Could Talk. 00:29:10.846 --> 00:29:13.556 Both are fantastic books. 00:29:13.955 --> 00:29:20.566 Now, having read If Beale Street, and I think If Beale Street is the probably the most kind of mainstream of his novels. 00:29:21.026 --> 00:29:22.172 But this is... 00:29:22.231 --> 00:29:25.261 so good, and this character was unforgettable to me. 00:29:25.271 --> 00:29:26.471 In fact, I actually... 00:29:27.201 --> 00:29:40.872 Afterwards, I went on to eBay, and I got a used copy of the hardback, of the original hardback'cause I thought,"I really want this." So that is Tell Me How Long the Train Has Been Gone by James Baldwin 00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:42.740 Ooh, okay. 00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:43.650 I'm intrigued. 00:29:43.700 --> 00:29:45.519 I have not heard of that one. 00:29:45.789 --> 00:29:47.559 So what would you recommend? 00:29:47.579 --> 00:29:49.579 I loved Giovanni's Room. 00:29:49.579 --> 00:29:52.609 I just read that, was it two years ago? 00:29:52.910 --> 00:29:55.009 And it made my top 10, but that's... 00:29:55.400 --> 00:30:02.920 So what would you recommend to someone like me who wants to read more James Baldwin, having loved Giovanni's Room so 00:30:03.286 --> 00:30:04.026 I think you would love 00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:04.569 my next... 00:30:05.185 --> 00:30:06.155 Yeah, I would do this. 00:30:06.195 --> 00:30:12.945 And I will tell you, like, I also listened to this on audio to kind of speed it along, and I got it from the library. 00:30:13.326 --> 00:30:14.955 The narrator is great. 00:30:15.425 --> 00:30:16.675 But I was so engaged. 00:30:16.776 --> 00:30:17.296 Sold. 00:30:17.365 --> 00:30:17.526 Okay. 00:30:18.115 --> 00:30:18.486 Sold. 00:30:18.516 --> 00:30:18.826 Yay. 00:30:19.355 --> 00:30:19.885 All right. 00:30:20.165 --> 00:30:23.726 So my next one is, um, another backlist. 00:30:23.776 --> 00:30:37.486 And the- I, I continue to be on the lookout for stories about women in midlife and beyond, and this book in particular has been recommended in my... 00:30:37.915 --> 00:30:51.996 Every Friday I do like a community get-together on my Substack for, and we are always talking about books and what are we reading and recommending, and this book has been repeatedly given as people's favorites. 00:30:52.096 --> 00:30:53.465 So I finally read it. 00:30:53.465 --> 00:30:56.016 It's While I Was Gone by Sue Miller 00:30:56.625 --> 00:30:57.195 Oh, okay. 00:30:57.415 --> 00:30:58.385 And ha- have you read 00:30:58.395 --> 00:30:58.976 I've never read it. 00:30:58.986 --> 00:30:59.665 No, no 00:30:59.756 --> 00:31:00.155 Okay. 00:31:00.576 --> 00:31:04.286 And I had heard of the title, but, you know, there's so many books. 00:31:04.286 --> 00:31:06.135 And so finally I was like,"You know what? 00:31:06.135 --> 00:31:08.885 Let me r- let me read this." I listened to it. 00:31:09.586 --> 00:31:11.635 It was really great on audio. 00:31:11.635 --> 00:31:15.556 This is about Jo Becker, and she has every reason to be content. 00:31:15.865 --> 00:31:21.536 She has three dynamic daughters, a loving marriage, and a rewarding career. 00:31:21.779 --> 00:31:28.089 But, I love when a but, it's like everything is good, but she feels a sense of unease. 00:31:28.829 --> 00:31:39.490 And then an old housemate reappears from, like, college days, sending Jo back to a distant past when she lived in a communal house in Cambridge, Massachusetts. 00:31:40.980 --> 00:31:50.240 Drawn deeper into her memories of that fateful summer in 1968, Jo begins to obsess about the person she once was. 00:31:51.170 --> 00:32:03.559 And as she is pulled farther from her present life, her husband, and her world, she ends up struggling against becoming overcome by her past and its dark secret. 00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:14.359 And I also, as a reader, was like,"What the heck is this secret?" I was so compelled to keep going. 00:32:14.390 --> 00:32:31.266 I mean, I thought Sue Miller does such a great job of not only making me very interested in Jo, but also, you know, it's very hard to then go back to the past and also make that compelling, which she did. 00:32:31.266 --> 00:32:32.405 And I had to find out. 00:32:32.816 --> 00:32:39.286 I, I could tell that there was a tone in the story that something, something dark happened back then. 00:32:39.286 --> 00:32:44.036 This is not like, oh, you know, it's just a little old secret. 00:32:44.246 --> 00:32:44.536 It... 00:32:45.135 --> 00:32:50.306 I knew there was a dark secret, and there is, and I loved it. 00:32:50.435 --> 00:32:50.875 I loved it. 00:32:50.885 --> 00:32:54.705 I, I had no- I kind of tried to figure it out along the way. 00:32:54.756 --> 00:33:02.185 Part of me figured out, like, parts of it, but I was really surprised by the other parts and the direction that she took this. 00:33:02.855 --> 00:33:13.242 Someone in my, Friday community said that the writing, I believe it was Larry who said the writing was reminiscent of Anne Tyler and Ann Patchett. 00:33:14.083 --> 00:33:26.502 I would say yes, I agree with that, and I would also add, if you like the writing of Joyce Maynard and Lily King, and you haven't read Sue Miller, I think you might like this one. 00:33:26.659 --> 00:33:27.128 Oh, wow. 00:33:27.179 --> 00:33:27.558 Okay 00:33:27.722 --> 00:33:33.212 yeah, so she writes about marriage, family, and complicated love very well. 00:33:33.232 --> 00:33:36.962 The ending was great and unexpected. 00:33:37.353 --> 00:33:40.053 So that one was

While It Was Gone by Sue Miller 00:33:41.209 --> 00:33:41.449 Wow. 00:33:41.479 --> 00:33:43.548 I don't think I've read anything by her actually. 00:33:43.919 --> 00:33:44.368 So 00:33:44.404 --> 00:33:46.755 was my first read by her also 00:33:47.416 --> 00:33:47.836 Okay. 00:33:47.936 --> 00:33:48.767 All right, this is good to know. 00:33:48.767 --> 00:33:51.457 And all those people you comped, I love all those people. 00:33:51.547 --> 00:33:51.916 So 00:33:52.017 --> 00:33:53.656 Then you, I bet you might like it 00:33:54.217 --> 00:33:54.606 Okay. 00:33:54.707 --> 00:33:55.446 All right, good. 00:33:55.787 --> 00:34:08.706 I have to, also say one of the books that you had talked about on our last quarter I listened to and loved, it's not in this group today but I loved it, which was Celestial Lights by Cecile Pin. 00:34:08.766 --> 00:34:10.556 Oh, wasn't that so good? 00:34:10.925 --> 00:34:21.974 so good, and it surprised me so much, and I don't know what I was expecting, but it, it just went to places I just didn't think it was gonna go to, and I guess I really just didn't know what to think. 00:34:22.324 --> 00:34:27.034 But, like, the narrative just went completely in a separate place than what I thought it was going to. 00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:32.458 Were you frust-, were you frustrated with the main character at times? 00:34:32.518 --> 00:34:33.088 Yeah. 00:34:33.358 --> 00:34:33.708 Yeah. 00:34:33.708 --> 00:34:43.112 Well, I, because I thought, I thought he was incredibly self-involved, But I also understood this whole idea of ambition and at what cost., And it didn't end where I thought it was gonna end. 00:34:43.121 --> 00:34:45.632 I thought it was gonna be something completely different. 00:34:45.972 --> 00:34:47.922 but, no, I really enjoyed it. 00:34:48.442 --> 00:34:49.391 And it was quick too. 00:34:49.422 --> 00:34:54.572 She, she managed to capture so much in such a small book. 00:34:54.581 --> 00:34:56.552 So yeah, good pick. 00:34:57.090 --> 00:34:57.630 Yes. 00:34:57.639 --> 00:34:58.059 Good 00:34:58.385 --> 00:35:18.856 okay, so my next one, this is a total surprise to me, and I'm frankly surprised that this book isn't bigger and it hasn't caught on more because, you know, it's been comped as something for people who love, either Frederik Backman or Virginia Evans, and I think that's pretty, legitimate. 00:35:19.456 --> 00:35:24.016 It's called Everything is Beautiful-- Everything Was Beautiful and Nothing Hurt by Ben Reeves. 00:35:24.278 --> 00:35:34.775 And it's a very interesting premise, and I think it's a great book club book, but it says,"Travis is death in the modern world. 00:35:34.976 --> 00:35:37.295 He lives with his cat in a small gray town. 00:35:37.556 --> 00:35:43.585 His job is to offer people comfort in their final hours of life, which he does without complaint or judgment. 00:35:43.835 --> 00:35:49.706 He's stoic, gentle, and a little naive despite who he is, but he never tries to change anyone's fate. 00:35:49.826 --> 00:35:54.885 He's responsible for maintaining the balance of nature, and every life must eventually end. 00:35:55.315 --> 00:36:01.735 Then Travis meets Dahlia, a midwife, and her boisterous eight-year-old daughter, Layla, who live across the hall. 00:36:01.965 --> 00:36:08.005 And despite his best attempts to keep his distance, he finds himself wholeheartedly embraced by other people for the first time. 00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:17.748 So it is with this seemingly unremarkable family that Travis begins to understand what it means to truly be alive and what might be irrevocably lost in death. 00:36:17.889 --> 00:36:44.686 Written with radiant warmth, wisdom, and compassion, Everything Was Beautiful and Nothing Hurt is a timeless and ultimately uplifting story about appreciating life, accepting its end, and finding our place in the universe, especially when it feels most impossible that will resonate with anyone who has ever loved and lost or worried about time's passing." So I started this, and, got into it, and I was fine. 00:36:44.695 --> 00:36:52.126 Like, by that I mean, like, there is an event in this that's truly tragic And I was like,"Okay." And I was fine. 00:36:52.126 --> 00:36:53.445 I really was fine. 00:36:54.255 --> 00:37:00.976 And then I got to the last five pages, and I was a blubbering mess. 00:37:01.005 --> 00:37:03.585 It literally was like someone pulled the rug out from under me. 00:37:03.815 --> 00:37:06.255 And by the way, I really appreciate a good cry in a book. 00:37:06.255 --> 00:37:07.306 Like, I love when a book 00:37:07.324 --> 00:37:08.224 Yeah, same. 00:37:08.423 --> 00:37:09.034 Mm-hmm 00:37:09.115 --> 00:37:16.385 it always seems to resonate with me later where I'm always like, you know, still to this day, I can remember the points when I was, sobbing uncontrollably through A Little Life. 00:37:16.856 --> 00:37:17.186 But, 00:37:17.251 --> 00:37:17.891 Oh, yeah 00:37:18.159 --> 00:37:19.259 this was... 00:37:19.688 --> 00:37:24.898 It's really a beautiful, beautiful book and what the ultimate message is. 00:37:24.969 --> 00:37:42.748 And I got to sit down with Ben Reeves for the podcast, and I was so anxious to sit with him'cause I had so many questions, and he's such a thoughtful, sensitive, guy, so intelligent and very kind of just, you know, aware. 00:37:42.929 --> 00:37:57.909 So I do think it's a book that so many people would love, and I'm shocked'cause I know it's done well, but I'm, I'm surprised that it hasn't taken off even more because I, I do think this is a word-of-mouth book that should be catching on more. 00:37:57.929 --> 00:38:04.028 But I thought it was really, really beautiful and, uh, that is Everything Is Beautiful, and Nothing Hurt by Ben Reeves 00:38:04.811 --> 00:38:05.280 Ooh, okay. 00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:09.541 I have a copy of that, but have not tried it or anything. 00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:11.867 Yeah All right, I'm glad you love that one. 00:38:12.027 -->

00:38:20.387 All right, I am going to end my picks with the other nonfiction I have not been able to shut up about. 00:38:20.487 --> 00:38:29.257 My Substack newsletter people are probably like, if they're listening, which I know many of them are, like,"You've already talked about this book." I know. 00:38:29.356 --> 00:38:30.487 I can't shut up about it. 00:38:30.516 --> 00:38:31.347 I loved it. 00:38:31.606 --> 00:38:46.356 And, an ode to what has been like sitting on my own bookshelf, I pulled this off my own bookshelf, gave it to Darren because he's reading now at night, and then he was telling me about it and I was like,"I gotta read that for myself." Okay. 00:38:47.067 --> 00:38:55.157 It is The Wave: In Pursuit of the Rogues, Freaks, and Giants of the Ocean by Susan Casey. 00:38:55.396 --> 00:38:59.773 This book, nonfiction, came out in 2011. 00:38:59.936 --> 00:39:08.567 Somewhere over the years I bought it, and it's been sitting on my shelf unread until Darren asked me for a nonfiction. 00:39:08.577 --> 00:39:10.976 He only wants to read nonfiction at night. 00:39:11.407 --> 00:39:22.193 So I pulled this off and I was like,"Try this." And then he's reading it and staying up late reading it and telling me about it, and so I grabbed the audio, which is narrated by Kirsten Potter. 00:39:22.293 --> 00:39:22.943 So good. 00:39:23.242 --> 00:39:27.943 And this one, okay, I'm gonna give a lot of the publisher's synopsis because it's really good. 00:39:28.193 --> 00:39:41.039 So until recently, meaning, well, it would've been 2011, so it's even more so now, scientists dismissed stories about waves, nearing or surpassing 100 feet. 00:39:41.215 --> 00:39:48.673 But in the past few decades, a startling number of ships have vanished, and new evidence has emerged. 00:39:48.764 --> 00:39:53.983 Oceanographers have realized something scary was brewing in the planet's waters. 00:39:54.199 --> 00:40:09.454 And then in February of 2000 they found their proof when a British research vessel was trapped in a vortex of impossibly mammoth waves in the North Sea, including several that approached 100 feet. 00:40:09.666 --> 00:40:20.516 So as scientists began to scramble to understand this phenomenon, others out there viewed these giant waves as the ultimate challenge. 00:40:20.905 --> 00:40:31.786 And these extreme surfers who fly around the world trying to ride the ocean's most destructive monsters began to also be studied. 00:40:31.905 --> 00:40:41.025 So the pioneer of extreme surfing is the legendary Laird Hamilton, who I had actually heard of. 00:40:41.536 --> 00:41:18.360 So in this book, Susan Casey, who is a world-renowned journalist and I, oh my gosh, such an amazing writer, she- Basically, for lack of a better word, trailed Laird Hamilton and his crew around the world as they chase these waves, while also interspersing their story with actual, like, real stories of these giant waves and the destruction throughout the world, the missing ships, the tsunami of 2004. 00:41:18.690 --> 00:41:26.646 I mean, this book is jam-packed with the most fascinating, interesting, riveting information. 00:41:27.277 --> 00:41:30.646 So go back to Laird Hamilton and his friends. 00:41:30.706 --> 00:41:41.996 Their home base is Hawaii, and you may or may not know, which I did not know, but Hamilton figured out how to surf 70-foot waves and above. 00:41:42.007 --> 00:41:45.907 He came up with tow surfing, T-O-W surfing. 00:41:46.157 --> 00:41:50.786 So you get towed into the wave on a jet ski. 00:41:51.617 --> 00:41:51.927 How... 00:41:52.827 --> 00:41:55.157 I mean, Brett, this book blew my mind. 00:41:55.197 --> 00:41:56.786 And she follows them. 00:41:56.916 --> 00:42:00.637 She goes out on the jet ski at one point. 00:42:01.177 --> 00:42:02.666 I'm sorry, you could not pay me. 00:42:02.706 --> 00:42:04.166 You could not pay me. 00:42:04.606 --> 00:42:06.976 It- this is an incredible story. 00:42:07.427 --> 00:42:09.306 It is- the publisher said... 00:42:09.336 --> 00:42:26.519 I, now, I did not read Into Thin Air, but the publisher says,"For readers who enjoyed Into Thin Air, like, and enjoy stories about people confronting nature at its most ferocious, this book is for you." Okay. 00:42:27.369 --> 00:42:29.760 I, again, have not been able to shut up about it. 00:42:29.829 --> 00:42:33.000 I binged the crap out of this book. 00:42:33.929 --> 00:42:35.340 I learned so much. 00:42:35.389 --> 00:42:36.750 I could not stop reading. 00:42:36.800 --> 00:42:42.539 The way she put this book together and her writing was phenomenal. 00:42:43.119 --> 00:42:52.480 I then had to, like, while listening to it, I went and grabbed the print book, which I do think you should have with you because of the photos, the photos in the book. 00:42:52.590 --> 00:42:54.099 Ugh, chef's kiss. 00:42:54.480 --> 00:43:07.699 And then I spent I don't know how long going down Google rabbit holes, like, pulling up p- images of these wa- these 100-foot and above waves and the surfers riding them. 00:43:08.530 --> 00:43:10.090 Incredible, incredible. 00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:13.820 I guarantee this book will be in my top 10 of the year. 00:43:13.829 --> 00:43:20.619 I it's The Wave: In Pursuit of the Rogues, Freaks, and Giants of the Ocean by Susan Casey 00:43:21.105 --> 00:43:23.894 It also sounds like there should have been an amazing documentary to go with the book 00:43:24.396 --> 00:43:25.367 there should be. 00:43:25.387 --> 00:43:25.956 I don't... 00:43:26.027 --> 00:43:29.036 I mean, that is one thing I did not find. 00:43:29.226 --> 00:43:30.007 There might be. 00:43:30.456 --> 00:43:30.936 There might be. 00:43:30.936 --> 00:43:37.507 I'm sure there probably is, and that's a great thing I'm gonna go look up after we finish this because I would love to watch it. 00:43:38.353 --> 00:43:42.413 Yeah, that sounds, that sounds amazing, and also scares the shit out of me. 00:43:43.505 --> 00:43:43.945 I know. 00:43:43.945 --> 00:43:50.775 I

mean, can you even wrap your mind around, and believe me, this was one of the most fascinating sections of the book. 00:43:51.235 --> 00:44:00.842 A 1,740-foot wave that at the time she wrote this had leveled part of the Alaskan coast 00:44:01.748 --> 00:44:08.197 No, because honestly, because, now being up in the Pacific Northwest, I'm so conscious 00:44:08.362 --> 00:44:09.242 oh my gosh. 00:44:09.282 --> 00:44:09.672 Yeah, 00:44:09.728 --> 00:44:10.038 no, it's 00:44:10.351 --> 00:44:12.121 Is this book w- it might scare you. 00:44:12.898 --> 00:44:23.657 It's so funny because, the whole time I'm like,"Well, you know, if that Pacific, plate shifts," we could all be taken out by..."'Cause they talk about Seattle getting hit by, you know, a huge wave. 00:44:23.967 --> 00:44:27.847 'Cause Chip keeps saying,"We wouldn't be affected because of where the island sits. 00:44:27.898 --> 00:44:31.387 I'm like,"If it's 1,000-foot wave, we're gonna be affected. 00:44:31.427 --> 00:44:38.027 Like, if it's 1,000-foot wave that's miles across, we're gonna see some water, and we're gonna have to run for the hills," you 00:44:38.036 --> 00:44:39.295 Oh my gosh. 00:44:39.315 --> 00:44:40.815 Yeah, Brett, I don't know. 00:44:40.826 --> 00:44:42.376 This book might not be for you, but 00:44:42.498 --> 00:44:47.858 No, but it sounds, it sounds really intriguing and, um, I just might have to read it with a Depends on. 00:44:48.487 --> 00:44:49.858 That sounds great though. 00:44:50.068 --> 00:44:57.998 Okay, so my final one, this is the book for me that I'm just calling it now, that is gonna have to be beat for my book of the 00:44:58.000 --> 00:44:58.789 Ooh. 00:44:59.000 --> 00:44:59.579 Oh, I can't... 00:44:59.619 --> 00:45:00.090 Okay 00:45:00.777 --> 00:45:05.942 which Just got this morning I saw it is on the longlist for the National Book Award. 00:45:06.202 --> 00:45:09.072 It's also on the longlist for the Booker Prize. 00:45:09.121 --> 00:45:12.331 I finished it finally,'cause I was really taking my time through this. 00:45:12.601 --> 00:45:17.351 I was also doing it on audio, which I would highly, highly suggest. 00:45:17.601 --> 00:45:22.072 It was an incredible audio experience, because the book is set in Jamaica. 00:45:22.291 --> 00:45:24.742 It is The Disappears by Marlon James. 00:45:25.362 --> 00:45:31.762 I have to tell you, this is the first book of Marlon James I've ever read, despite owning all of his books. 00:45:31.831 --> 00:45:32.922 I've never read any. 00:45:33.172 --> 00:45:44.652 And I think part of it is because I think, like I started to say to you before we started to record, for some reason I was intimidated by Marlon James because of his reputation of being this amazing writer. 00:45:44.942 --> 00:45:47.561 I think he comes off as so intelligent. 00:45:47.581 --> 00:45:49.782 Again, having never seen him interviewed. 00:45:50.202 --> 00:45:54.862 He's also partners with Nicholas Boggs, who wrote the Baldwin biography. 00:45:55.349 --> 00:45:55.809 Oh, 00:45:55.972 --> 00:46:00.572 is this powerhouse, super smarty pants couple. 00:46:01.541 --> 00:46:07.599 But I really wanted to read this because of the subject matter, and I was blown away. 00:46:07.838 --> 00:46:11.829 And I will absolutely be reading everything else of his. 00:46:12.289 --> 00:46:14.728 But the premise of this is it's 1988. 00:46:14.798 --> 00:46:17.918 Eight men in Kingston, Jamaica, begin rehearsals for a play. 00:46:18.259 --> 00:46:24.898 The men are strangers to one another and each has a different reason for being involved, but they all share one inescapable truth. 00:46:25.059 --> 00:46:26.099 All of them are gay. 00:46:26.389 --> 00:46:28.978 A baddie man in Jamaican argot. 00:46:29.054 --> 00:46:32.934 All of them must contend with the dangers that such a truth lays bare. 00:46:33.284 --> 00:46:37.155 One night, a mob savagely attacks them, killing one of the men. 00:46:37.585 --> 00:46:41.744 For the survivors, their recovery is as much emotional as it is physical. 00:46:42.054 --> 00:46:48.405 As their bodies heal, each man grapples with the violence, the hatred, and the rage that the attack made plain. 00:46:48.704 --> 00:46:53.474 Some try to ignore what the attack has unearthed, while others double down on retribution. 00:46:53.864 --> 00:47:02.695 In The Disappears, Marlon James has written a riveting and deeply human story of men forced to make compromises to survive what the society they live in demands. 00:47:02.914 --> 00:47:11.425 It's both a dramatic page-turner and an unflinching exploration of queer life in Jamaica during the 1980s and the 1990s. 00:47:12.474 --> 00:47:16.695 So yeah, I, I was just blown away by this thing. 00:47:17.105 --> 00:47:28.054 Marlon James has such an ability to create these characters that are so unforgettable, and the way that he presents the narrative is a variety of ways. 00:47:28.324 --> 00:47:34.554 A lot of that, a lot of it is interviews that are taking place with some of these survivors. 00:47:34.914 --> 00:47:37.755 We never hear the questions that are being asked. 00:47:37.795 --> 00:47:40.425 It's only the response of these guys. 00:47:41.275 --> 00:47:49.777 But The book's title, two of the men post this tragedy have disappeared. 00:47:49.956 --> 00:47:56.987 We don't know where they've gone, and so that's part of the disappears of the novel. 00:47:57.327 --> 00:48:15.547 But the disappears also refers to how we hide ourselves in society, and for these men, how they have to, for lack of a better way of saying it, code switch to get along or not get along, and what it means, especially living in a society that condemns homosexuality, that would put you to death. 00:48:15.606 --> 00:48:18.306 You have leaders calling for the death of homosexuals. 00:48:19.007 --> 00:48:21.637 So it's brutal. 00:48:21.677 --> 00:48:36.297 I'm, you know, I'm not gonna lie, the actual attack scene is incredibly violent, and again, this is not a spoiler, but he

takes the attack from the point of view of the men attacking these men and where their heads are at. 00:48:37.106 --> 00:48:44.291 I just found it, not only riveting and very moving, it's also very explicit sexually. 00:48:44.751 --> 00:49:06.190 But I found the kind of righteous anger that at least one of these characters feels afterwards, I personally tapped right into, and I thought it was right on and real, and the response that I think I would have in this situation if I was somebody who survived something like this. 00:49:06.411 --> 00:49:07.681 It's very unflinching. 00:49:07.740 --> 00:49:13.570 It's very funny too, and I think that was something else that surprised me, is I laughed a lot. 00:49:14.021 --> 00:49:24.548 But- It's something that in comparisons to something, say, A Little Life, which I loved A Little Life, but A Little Life to me was a little bit of torture porn. 00:49:25.309 --> 00:49:26.829 This is not that. 00:49:26.998 --> 00:49:38.849 This is, there is this act of violence that gets committed, but it's much more, relevant and realistic to me than what A Little Life was. 00:49:39.168 --> 00:49:42.079 I, I finished it and I, I posted that day. 00:49:42.079 --> 00:49:47.608 I just posted it on my stories and I said,"Just give it everything," and meaning the awards, and I do feel that way. 00:49:47.619 --> 00:49:57.282 I think that it's truly a, a pretty remarkable timepiece of a novel, also moving through the whole AIDS crisis and how that affects things too. 00:49:57.291 --> 00:49:59.672 So it's riveting. 00:49:59.692 --> 00:50:03.461 It's an incredible character study, and, it's amazing literature. 00:50:03.492 --> 00:50:07.282 So it, for me, is my favorite of the year so far, so we'll see if it gets toppled. 00:50:08.065 --> 00:50:09.675 Ooh, okay, yeah. 00:50:09.885 --> 00:50:11.025 Excellent review. 00:50:11.076 --> 00:50:31.668 I am going to read this for sure, but I wondered, I'm glad you said that there were aspects of it that were funny because I've been holding off because I, I know the subject, I know okay, this might be tough, this might be a tough read, so I need to wait until I'm in the space for that. 00:50:31.898 --> 00:50:39.688 And now that you said, there are funny parts to it, okay, and I'm thinking, well maybe I, I could probably do, I could probably bump that up then for 00:50:39.690 --> 00:50:43.920 Yeah, I think what it is, is I think I've seen people who have said,"I had to put it down 00:50:44.548 --> 00:50:44.768 Mm-hmm. 00:50:44.951 --> 00:50:45.121 to... 00:50:45.161 --> 00:50:49.971 Like, I had to put it down for a moment." And I, and I, I again, I understand that. 00:50:50.101 --> 00:50:52.360 I personally didn't have that reaction. 00:50:52.550 --> 00:51:04.420 To me, and maybe it's because of being gay, I, uh, there's certain like a sense of potential for violence that I think exists towards people, as I've always felt. 00:51:04.791 --> 00:51:10.630 And so it- in some ways, it's weird to say it, it, it substantiated my own feelings. 00:51:10.931 --> 00:51:12.900 So It wasn't something I had to look away from. 00:51:12.920 --> 00:51:30.621 I kind of was like,"Well, of course, this is what happens." Where I think a lot of people are going to be, you know, shocked and, kind of like,"Wow." And he-- Marlon James has said, like for him as a writer, it's not to be safe. 00:51:30.670 --> 00:51:32.710 It's to go out a little further. 00:51:33.061 --> 00:51:40.990 But I don't think that anything that takes place, even in terms of the violence, is, unrealistic when we think of people like Matthew Shepard and what happened. 00:51:41.371 --> 00:51:48.621 But there is one central character who takes a lot of the book, and he is really funny. 00:51:48.621 --> 00:51:50.820 But there are a lot of, there are a lot of really funny bits. 00:51:50.820 --> 00:51:53.871 But again, I would highly suggest listening to it. 00:51:54.371 --> 00:51:57.670 And I started to go back and forth'cause I wanted to mark passages. 00:51:58.661 --> 00:52:03.771 But these guys, the full cast, and the actors are so good. 00:52:03.800 --> 00:52:05.221 The readers are so good. 00:52:05.510 --> 00:52:13.721 It was only one of these things where, you know, Renee, like both of us will speed things up, and I really couldn't get the speed that high because it's thick at times. 00:52:14.130 --> 00:52:22.914 Um, but it, but it lent this incredible authenticity to the story that just kind of dropped me in, and I was like,"I'm, I'm there." It was great 00:52:23.697 --> 00:52:24.036 Okay. 00:52:24.237 --> 00:52:24.936 All right, great. 00:52:24.987 --> 00:52:28.436 I do think I have the audio and, e-book, so 00:52:28.581 --> 00:52:29.161 Oh, great 00:52:29.266 --> 00:52:30.487 dual It'll be great. 00:52:30.586 --> 00:52:31.047 Okay. 00:52:31.336 --> 00:52:32.286 Yeah, that's incredible. 00:52:32.376 --> 00:52:32.746 Wow. 00:52:32.947 --> 00:52:42.266 You killed the review, so I will be shocked if later on we talk and you say that something toppled that for you. 00:52:42.898 --> 00:52:44.119 Yeah, I'm gonna be too. 00:52:44.208 --> 00:52:54.528 And I'm, and I'm looking at stuff and I'm thinking,"Oh, this could be something that's great." Which brings us to, like, our last thing, which we are each gonna talk about one book we're looking forward to in the third, in the last quarter 00:52:55.190 --> 00:52:55.681 Yes. 00:52:55.710 --> 00:52:59.431 Okay, so this just came on my radar. 00:52:59.471 --> 00:53:04.351 The publicist just sent this to my email two days ago, and I was... 00:53:04.530 --> 00:53:07.240 I have not heard of this, so breaking news. 00:53:07.550 --> 00:53:09.061 I mean, maybe you haven't heard of it. 00:53:09.101 --> 00:53:10.411 I don't know how I missed it. 00:53:10.650 --> 00:53:15.721 This is called Tiger's Mouth by Lucy Tan, and it comes out November 17th. 00:53:16.061 --> 00:53:16.920 Oh, I had not... 00:53:17.460 --> 00:53:25.960 Well, I haven't been on

Instagram and I, yeah, I'm behind on keeping up with new releases, but I was like,"This sounds so good. 00:53:25.971 --> 00:53:36.083 How come I didn't know about it?" This is about Jack Chen, the oldest son of caterers from Queens, and he is an expert at studying the rich from afar. 00:53:36.246 --> 00:53:47.777 When he finagles his way into a prestigious internship at a tech giant, he's prepared to fake everything, his credentials, his confidence, even his past. 00:53:48.297 --> 00:54:04.177 What he isn't prepared for is his office mate, Jack Owens, the depressed son of the company's billionaire founder, who's only there for a summer reprieve from his father's scrutiny at the family vacation house. 00:54:04.916 --> 00:54:10.507 And when these two get together, their connection is immediate and it's on mutual admiration. 00:54:11.016 --> 00:54:15.567 Chen sees in Owens the advantages he's been denied. 00:54:15.856 --> 00:54:20.257 Owens sees in Chen someone free of the pain he's been taught to hide. 00:54:21.876 --> 00:54:31.407 Owens, Chen, and Chen's girlfriend quickly become close friends, but by summer's end, the three can no longer outrun the lives they've... 00:54:32.157 --> 00:54:35.637 the lies they told themselves and each other. 00:54:35.773 --> 00:54:37.054 That makes me think it could... 00:54:37.134 --> 00:54:40.603 I- I read that and think, is there a love triangle? 00:54:40.873 --> 00:54:41.963 Could there be a love triangle? 00:54:41.974 --> 00:54:44.623 Which I personally absolutely love, so 00:54:44.809 --> 00:54:45.409 You're for it. 00:54:45.974 --> 00:54:48.954 So the, two Jacks circle each other. 00:54:49.134 --> 00:54:59.423 What sounds like it's going to be drama, and sounds like it might also kind of continue a bit into the future. 00:54:59.733 --> 00:55:05.813 We're gonna follow them as they, as we watch their career, families, lovers. 00:55:05.853 --> 00:55:06.273 I don't know. 00:55:06.273 --> 00:55:09.744 I- I'm here for that vibe of like set over time. 00:55:10.293 --> 00:55:11.773 And what are the lies? 00:55:11.884 --> 00:55:12.463 I don't know. 00:55:12.523 --> 00:55:18.914 This is billed as nostalgic, heart-wrenching, and propulsive, and I'm here for it. 00:55:19.014 --> 00:55:23.054 It's called Tiger's Mouth by Lucy Tan, and it comes out November 17th 00:55:24.119 --> 00:55:25.969 Isn't the cover with the two tigers, right? 00:55:25.969 --> 00:55:28.340 It's like, uh, I, I think s- Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:55:28.349 --> 00:55:29.090 I've seen this too. 00:55:29.130 --> 00:55:30.510 I think it sounds really, really good 00:55:30.632 --> 00:55:31.313 I mean, it might... 00:55:31.362 --> 00:55:39.262 I feel like initially I was like,"This is risky to have two main characters with the same first name." Mm. 00:55:39.753 --> 00:55:40.193 But I'm 00:55:40.226 --> 00:55:41.556 better be separating them well. 00:55:41.762 --> 00:55:44.472 I know, I'm, I'm interested to see how it goes. 00:55:44.746 --> 00:55:45.797 they better be distinct. 00:55:46.213 --> 00:55:47.922 They better be distinct, right. 00:55:47.992 --> 00:55:49.773 Okay, what are you looking forward to? 00:55:50.280 --> 00:56:01.550 Okay, so this book, I think looks so batshit crazy, but also, I think gonna be one of the perfect books for spooky season. 00:56:01.710 --> 00:56:06.460 It's called Public Access Afterworld by Jane Schoenbrun. 00:56:06.831 --> 00:56:21.240 Jane Schoenbrun, they're a director who has a movie that just came out recently called Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma, which stars Gillian Anderson and, Hannah Einbinder from Hacks. 00:56:21.931 --> 00:56:26.960 But this thing sounds totally wacky and totally intriguing. 00:56:27.195 --> 00:56:43.724 It says,"At 5:35 PM on September 3rd, 1988, Dallas weatherman Ray'Can You Say Sunshine?' DeVino makes passing reference to Public Access Afterworld during a rambling monologue right before he puts a gun to his head on live television and pulls the trigger. 00:56:44.335 --> 00:56:55.664 On June 12th, 2009, David Sawyer and Aaron Morrison, two lonely TV-obsessed suburban teens who might be falling in love, gather in Aaron's basement to watch TV's analog-to-digital transition. 00:56:55.954 --> 00:57:06.235 But in the static that follows, Aaron witnesses surreal broadcasts from a pirate TV network called Public Access Afterworld, and their lives are changed forever. 00:57:06.684 --> 00:57:13.394 17 years later, Bethany Peters toils through the night shift at Megacorp Global bleak Austin campus. 00:57:13.695 --> 00:57:24.985 A trans content moderator, she spends her evenings reviewing an endless stream of horrific videos, but then a young streamer begins to crop up in her feed, calling out to Public Access Afterworld. 00:57:25.275 --> 00:57:27.994 But what is Public Access Afterworld? 00:57:28.394 --> 00:57:41.224 Spanning decades and realities with an unforgettable ensemble of outcasts and nerds, especially the messy but wholly relatable Bethany, who must overcome paranoia and self-doubt to transform into a hero of her times. 00:57:41.485 --> 00:57:46.695 Public Access Afterworld will have you reading through the night and rooting for its characters to survive. 00:57:46.954 --> 00:58:02.974 A mesmerizing mashup of speculative fiction, horror, and conspiracy, it marks the arrival of a major new force in contemporary fiction by a groundbreaking filmmaker who's been compared to David Lynch and Paul Thomas Anderson." I just think this sounds so crazy and wild. 00:58:03.355 --> 00:58:09.987 It's a really, it's a really cool cover, and it comes out, october 27th. 00:58:09.998 --> 00:58:11.728 So literally right up to Halloween. 00:58:12.217 --> 00:58:13.927 But, it sounds like a really cool book 00:58:14.121 --> 00:58:17.101 That sounds right up your alley with the TV, angle. 00:58:17.668 --> 00:58:23.768 Yeah, and it sounds weird and, it'll probably be one of these things where I'm like,"I don't know what the hell I'm reading," but I have to keep going. 00:58:26.079 --> 00:58:28.449 I bet it has a really good opening, Renee. 00:58:28.449 --> 00:58:28.528 I 00:58:28.701 --> 00:58:29.251 I hope 00:58:29.338 --> 00:58:30.309 has a catchy opening. 00:58:30.389 --> 00:58:33.818 I mean, just that, just that description, I'd be like, I bet it has a good opening. 00:58:34.338 --> 00:58:34.838 So 00:58:35.045 --> 00:58:37.195 I can't wait to hear how that one goes for you 00:58:38.597 --> 00:58:39.847 Well, this is a good group. 00:58:39.996 --> 00:58:40.286 And, 00:58:40.429 --> 00:58:41.358 What a variety 00:58:41.617 --> 00:58:44.737 yeah, total variety back list, front list, stuff coming out. 00:58:45.077 --> 00:58:46.697 Thank you as always for being here. 00:58:46.706 --> 00:58:52.847 And I'll just make sure your, address is down there for people who are interested in reaching out to you, for sure. 00:58:53.286 --> 00:58:53.766 And, 00:58:53.773 --> 00:58:55.182 Yeah, thanks for having me. 00:58:55.282 --> 00:58:57.079 This was fun as usual 00:58:57.523 --> 00:58:58.423 Yeah, totally. 00:58:59.063 --> 00:59:00.643 And, only three more months to go, 00:59:00.693 --> 00:59:02.257 let's, let's finish strong. 00:59:02.286 --> 00:59:04.927 Okay, I'm gonna predict I will definitely more five stars. 00:59:06.117 --> 00:59:09.041 But I mean, I loved all of these books. 00:59:09.141 --> 00:59:16.534 So what I should say is I am going to have more fiction five stars in our next discussion 00:59:16.673 --> 00:59:19.184 Yeah, and I wouldn't mind having more nonfiction thrown in. 00:59:19.244 --> 00:59:21.393 I mean, especially with Nonfiction November coming up. 00:59:21.744 --> 00:59:22.543 Well, happy readings 00:59:23.128 --> 00:59:24.518 Thanks again for joining me, Renee. 00:59:24.818 --> 00:59:31.684 If you've liked this episode or other episodes of Behind the Stack, please consider liking and subscribing so that you never miss an episode. 00:59:31.889 --> 00:59:42.559 Also, what would be really helpful to me is if you could go onto your podcast platform of choice and give the show five stars, and if you have the time to write a review as well. 00:59:42.838 --> 00:59:50.179 All of these things are really helpful to bring new people into the podcast so I could continue to bring you episodes like this one. 00:59:50.559 --> 00:59:56.768 I will be back next week with a new episode where I sit down with author Meg Mason for her new novel, Sophie Standing There. 00:59:57.039 --> 01:00:03.668 Until then, you can find me on Instagram, YouTube, and Substack at Brett's Book Stack. 01:00:03.800 --> 01:00:05.697 And as always, thanks for listening