Full Transcript for Jason, Emily and Rich II (Learning from War, the Power of Diplomacy and the Obesity Crisis) - Episode 1248

veterans, listen to episodes 558 and 1055 of 00:04:23.129 --> 00:04:26.949 the Behind the Shield podcast. Welcome to the 00:04:26.949 --> 00:04:28.709 Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my name 00:04:28.709 --> 00:04:30.790 is James Geering, and this week it is my absolute 00:04:30.790 --> 00:04:34.529 honor to welcome back onto the show Jason McCarthy, 00:04:35.050 --> 00:04:40.069 Emily McCarthy, and Rich Rice. Now, Jason is 00:04:40.069 --> 00:04:43.790 a former Green Beret and the co -founder of GORUCK 00:04:43.790 --> 00:04:47.370 with his wife, Emily. Emily is a former Central 00:04:47.370 --> 00:04:51.149 Intelligence Agency case officer. And Rich Rice 00:04:51.149 --> 00:04:54.649 is a Delta plank holder and member of the GORUCK 00:04:54.649 --> 00:04:57.490 team. Now, I've interviewed each of these incredible 00:04:57.490 --> 00:05:00.470 human beings individually. And then we did a 00:05:00.470 --> 00:05:03.129 conversation a few years ago with the three of 00:05:03.129 --> 00:05:05.930 them together. And it was such a unique and important 00:05:05.930 --> 00:05:08.990 perspective when you think about the individual 00:05:08.990 --> 00:05:12.230 backgrounds of each of these people. So in this 00:05:12.230 --> 00:05:14.750 latest conversation, we take a deep dive into 00:05:14.750 --> 00:05:18.170 some new topics. The lessons learned from the 00:05:18.170 --> 00:05:23.110 pandemic. Their event, Sandlot Jacks. The national 00:05:23.110 --> 00:05:26.800 obesity crisis. Learning the lessons of war, 00:05:27.019 --> 00:05:31.959 remembering D -Day, the 9 -11 25th anniversary, 00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:35.819 and so much more. Now, before we get to this 00:05:35.819 --> 00:05:38.439 incredible conversation, as I say every week, 00:05:38.500 --> 00:05:41.839 please just take a moment. Go to whichever app 00:05:41.839 --> 00:05:44.519 you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:49.259 leave feedback, and leave a rating. Every single 00:05:49.259 --> 00:05:52.519 five -star rating truly does elevate this podcast, 00:05:52.839 --> 00:05:55.319 therefore making it easier for others to find. 00:05:55.500 --> 00:05:59.959 And this is a free library of well over 1 ,200 00:05:59.959 --> 00:06:04.180 episodes now. So all I ask in return is that 00:06:04.180 --> 00:06:07.199 you help share these incredible men and women's 00:06:07.199 --> 00:06:11.139 stories so I can get them to every single person 00:06:11.139 --> 00:06:14.819 on planet Earth who needs to hear them. So with 00:06:14.819 --> 00:06:17.800 that being said, I welcome back onto the show 00:06:18.749 --> 00:06:42.480 Jason, Emily, and Rich. Enjoy. Well, Jason, Emily 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:46.180 and Rich, I want to start by saying thank you 00:06:46.180 --> 00:06:48.699 so, so much for coming back on the show. The 00:06:48.699 --> 00:06:51.519 last time we did an interview was August 2021. 00:06:51.779 --> 00:06:53.959 So as you can imagine, I've got a lot of questions 00:06:53.959 --> 00:06:56.800 as we emerged from the pandemic, as far as your 00:06:56.800 --> 00:06:59.620 reflections again. But it was also sitting in 00:06:59.620 --> 00:07:02.360 the champagne room of what was now your old HQ. 00:07:02.500 --> 00:07:05.560 So a lot has changed. But that being said, I 00:07:05.560 --> 00:07:07.519 just want to start by saying thank you so much 00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:09.759 for coming back onto the Behind the Shield podcast 00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:13.139 today. It took a lot of work for Emily to wrangle 00:07:13.139 --> 00:07:16.920 all of us up, right? And then she dragged us 00:07:16.920 --> 00:07:19.779 by the neck into her office, which has a bunch 00:07:19.779 --> 00:07:23.860 of Taylor Swift stuff. That's one Taylor Swift 00:07:23.860 --> 00:07:28.399 clock. That's it. What's that? What? Is that 00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:31.040 not her? That's Stevie Nicks. Is that Stevie 00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:38.720 Nicks? That's Stevie Nicks. I'm not sure she 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:41.139 would be offended or not by you saying that, 00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:45.519 but I also have a Punisher cartoon in here, and 00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:53.939 some pictures of my cat. Yeah. How did you... 00:07:54.740 --> 00:07:57.879 What made you choose not to have a podcast studio, 00:07:58.019 --> 00:08:00.759 a champagne room as you used to refer to it in 00:08:00.759 --> 00:08:04.079 the new place? We'll get one eventually, but 00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:06.699 that would entail us finding the podcast equipment 00:08:06.699 --> 00:08:12.079 that we somehow have misplaced, hopefully misplaced 00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:14.980 in the move. We have no idea where it walked 00:08:14.980 --> 00:08:18.899 off to. So we've been kind of just kind of keep 00:08:18.899 --> 00:08:22.459 looking. Rich has got us, you know, starting. 00:08:23.240 --> 00:08:25.860 A little search party for it. He said, we think 00:08:25.860 --> 00:08:27.939 it's around somewhere, or at least we're hoping. 00:08:28.459 --> 00:08:31.120 But once we get that, we've got some places in 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:33.419 mind. Rich probably got real good at eBay, you 00:08:33.419 --> 00:08:41.200 know? Rich has got these sequined rucks now and 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:43.940 this bedazzled trousers. Where'd you get that 00:08:43.940 --> 00:08:49.039 from? All right. Well, like I said, timeline 00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:52.539 wise, I think. the perfect place to start is 00:08:52.539 --> 00:08:54.980 where we kind of you know finished last time 00:08:54.980 --> 00:08:57.200 so i know you know when we spoke before there 00:08:57.200 --> 00:08:59.879 was some coveted reflections there was uh the 00:08:59.879 --> 00:09:01.899 afghan withdrawal some other things that we touched 00:09:01.899 --> 00:09:04.940 on at the time and again with your three unique 00:09:04.940 --> 00:09:08.700 paths and perspectives um the one i want to start 00:09:08.700 --> 00:09:12.519 with i am extremely

disappointed as we came out 00:09:12.519 --> 00:09:16.909 of such a huge event that a massive takeaway 00:09:16.909 --> 00:09:19.870 wasn't we need to make the nation healthier. 00:09:20.110 --> 00:09:24.870 We learn now after all the extremism that came 00:09:24.870 --> 00:09:26.750 out of the pandemic and everyone settled back 00:09:26.750 --> 00:09:29.250 in the middle that the healthier the population, 00:09:29.690 --> 00:09:32.110 the higher chance there is of surviving a virus 00:09:32.110 --> 00:09:35.769 like COVID -19 in that particular case. When 00:09:35.769 --> 00:09:37.850 we came out, there was no real responsibility 00:09:37.850 --> 00:09:40.750 taken and we didn't get any better. You know, 00:09:40.769 --> 00:09:43.389 there weren't PE programs bolstered and real 00:09:43.389 --> 00:09:45.870 food put back in schools and local farmers, you 00:09:45.870 --> 00:09:48.649 know, subsidized to make clean organic food. 00:09:48.730 --> 00:09:51.610 I don't, I mean, I don't think it's so absolute. 00:09:51.730 --> 00:09:54.629 I don't think there's no, I mean, it's all lots 00:09:54.629 --> 00:09:57.909 of people are talking about. fitness and health 00:09:57.909 --> 00:10:01.009 has become optimized and it's become very, you 00:10:01.009 --> 00:10:03.690 have to be really wealthy to do it now. And that's 00:10:03.690 --> 00:10:06.889 a bigger problem. I mean, changing all the lunches 00:10:06.889 --> 00:10:09.970 in all the schools, I mean, that's a massive 00:10:09.970 --> 00:10:12.509 thing, right? I mean, now you're talking about 00:10:12.509 --> 00:10:15.389 - But it's not a bad place to start. Well, if 00:10:15.389 --> 00:10:17.889 you want short -term action, it is, because that's 00:10:17.889 --> 00:10:20.850 going to take forever. I mean, changing the hearts 00:10:20.850 --> 00:10:23.950 of man is, I think, really the essence of mankind. 00:10:24.809 --> 00:10:26.730 is kind of what you're getting at. Like people 00:10:26.730 --> 00:10:29.269 didn't all of a sudden wake up and say, oh, I 00:10:29.269 --> 00:10:31.529 really want to be healthy now. And let me change 00:10:31.529 --> 00:10:33.850 everything about what I'm doing. That's really 00:10:33.850 --> 00:10:36.730 hard to do. I think people just want the quick 00:10:36.730 --> 00:10:42.629 fix, James. And yet it's like you want things 00:10:42.629 --> 00:10:45.509 that you have to work hard for ultimately. You 00:10:45.509 --> 00:10:48.250 think you want the easy button, but you don't. 00:10:49.450 --> 00:10:52.330 And I'm disappointed too, James. I think there 00:10:52.330 --> 00:10:55.840 was an opportunity. I mean, we think back on 00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:58.860 like when our beach was closed and then reopened, 00:10:58.860 --> 00:11:01.080 but it was reopened and the only thing you could 00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:04.840 do was move. You had to be moving on it. That 00:11:04.840 --> 00:11:08.919 was Jason's favorite time of the beach. Everyone 00:11:08.919 --> 00:11:13.220

and their brother and sister and all their pets 00:11:13.220 --> 00:11:15.340 and everybody out there because everyone was 00:11:15.340 --> 00:11:18.600 just so stir crazy out moving on the beach. And 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:21.240 it was like. Now everyone's just gone back to 00:11:21.240 --> 00:11:23.320 their old ways. I mean, I think lots of people 00:11:23.320 --> 00:11:26.600 changed. I mean, remote work. I mean, this idea 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:31.519 that, you know, it started out as. You know, 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:33.639 the companies and everybody was there in the 00:11:33.639 --> 00:11:36.460 factory building the stuff that turned into the 00:11:36.460 --> 00:11:39.860 cube farms inside of the big giant rectangles 00:11:39.860 --> 00:11:42.419 in the sky. And then there was sort of a shake 00:11:42.419 --> 00:11:45.120 up to that to say, well, I can do everything 00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:48.039 with my Zoom connection. And now there's sort 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:51.559 of a backlash against that. And some people, 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:55.309 it's hybrid and it's. not there. I mean, the 00:11:55.309 --> 00:11:57.590 food stuff has been a huge part of the conversation 00:11:57.590 --> 00:12:01.190 as well. I mean, I don't want to get too much 00:12:01.190 --> 00:12:04.049 into the politics side, but I mean, that was 00:12:04.049 --> 00:12:06.590 one of the major pillars of the Maha movement 00:12:06.590 --> 00:12:09.549 was to reduce the number of ingredients inside 00:12:09.549 --> 00:12:11.970 of food and make it more like Europe. And in 00:12:11.970 --> 00:12:14.230 essence, that would probably be a good thing 00:12:14.230 --> 00:12:16.700 if you can take that. in mass i mean the strawberries 00:12:16.700 --> 00:12:19.679 are fantastic in in france they don't have all 00:12:19.679 --> 00:12:22.480 the same pesticides that we we have when you 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:24.860 go get the pesticides ones that are that are 00:12:24.860 --> 00:12:28.000 in you know almost all of the stores or you know 00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:31.000 if my kids are now they've heard the thing same 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:32.799 thing as when we were growing up that yellow 00:12:32.799 --> 00:12:36.220 five is bad right they don't they won't touch 00:12:36.220 --> 00:12:39.879 yellow five so i just the problem is it's become 00:12:39.879 --> 00:12:43.159 such a wealthy man's thing and that's that's 00:12:43.159 --> 00:12:45.980 what i have a bigger Or it's become politicized. 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:52.879 Yeah. Yeah. What do you think, Rich? Rich. It's 00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:54.940 already been mentioned, but everybody's looking 00:12:54.940 --> 00:12:59.879 for a silver bullet these days. The high speed 00:12:59.879 --> 00:13:05.200 way to achieve immediate gratification. And when 00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:09.159 it comes to health, there is no immediate gratification. 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:11.679 Not really. If you're going to work on your health, 00:13:11.860 -->

00:13:15.600 there are things to do. but they take time and 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:18.259 nobody's willing to take that time or the money 00:13:18.259 --> 00:13:24.919 to do it and that's part of that is is a feedback 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:30.539 from our technological society now that that 00:13:30.539 --> 00:13:33.340 looks at things and if you want to talk to somebody 00:13:33.340 --> 00:13:36.580 you don't go find them and sit down over a cup 00:13:36.580 --> 00:13:39.080 of coffee at the local diner and talk to them 00:13:39.080 --> 00:13:42.889 face to face you call them on the phone Or you 00:13:42.889 --> 00:13:46.429 send them a Google Meet or a Zoom or whatever 00:13:46.429 --> 00:13:51.090 it might be. And I think that's part of what 00:13:51.090 --> 00:13:55.409 I'm concerned about being lost in the world. 00:13:55.629 --> 00:13:58.450 I mean, to go out on a ruck is one of the best 00:13:58.450 --> 00:14:02.629 things in the world, but it takes time. And people 00:14:02.629 --> 00:14:05.710 aren't willing to spend that time. Oh, well, 00:14:05.750 --> 00:14:07.789 I'll just carry a little heavier and go a little 00:14:07.789 --> 00:14:11.149 faster, but less distance. That isn't necessarily 00:14:11.149 --> 00:14:15.190 the right answer for everybody. So there's all 00:14:15.190 --> 00:14:25.309 kinds of impacts that are occurring that we really 00:14:25.309 --> 00:14:28.409 don't have any control over, but we do. But we've 00:14:28.409 --> 00:14:30.950 got to acknowledge that we have that. We've got 00:14:30.950 --> 00:14:36.049 to acknowledge that we accept time as a standard. 00:14:37.419 --> 00:14:40.000 And we have to set aside that time and people's 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:42.539 lives are so busy and moving right now that they're 00:14:42.539 --> 00:14:48.080 not willing to do that. Staying on you, Rich, 00:14:48.100 --> 00:14:50.019 for a second, because obviously your timeline 00:14:50.019 --> 00:14:58.620 spans further back than ours. Somebody told me 00:14:58.620 --> 00:15:02.379 yesterday on my birthday that I was three quarters 00:15:02.379 --> 00:15:07.299 of a century plus three years older. I really 00:15:07.299 --> 00:15:11.200 didn't like that. What is it? Almost four score? 00:15:11.539 --> 00:15:15.720 Yeah, almost four score. Oh, that's great. We're 00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:19.240 going to do four score t -shirts for Rich when 00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:26.679 he's four score. But with that kind of, you know, 00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:29.019 experience that you've had, like you said, 78 00:15:29.019 --> 00:15:32.909 years now. One of the conversations I think is 00:15:32.909 --> 00:15:34.909 that you are a product of your environment. All 00:15:34.909 --> 00:15:36.649 of us are a product of our environment and our 00:15:36.649 --> 00:15:40.429 choices are because of the sum total of our pathways. 00:15:41.370 --> 00:15:44.750 And there's an ownership point of view, of course, 00:15:44.750 --> 00:15:46.629 but there's also

an environment point of view. 00:15:46.730 --> 00:15:50.149 So as you said, if you take Scandinavia, the 00:15:50.149 --> 00:15:52.450 environment that a lot of those men and women 00:15:52.450 --> 00:15:55.600 are growing up in. is not driving them towards 00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:58.059 fast food and inactivity. There's a lot more 00:15:58.059 --> 00:16:00.960 kind of holistic culture bred into some of the 00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:04.879 Scandinavian countries. So through your eyes, 00:16:04.899 --> 00:16:06.980 going all the way back to when you were a young 00:16:06.980 --> 00:16:09.720 man, what are some of these elements, aside from 00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:12.179 obviously more recently these smartphones and 00:16:12.179 --> 00:16:14.720 that technology, what are some of these other 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:18.740 elements that have taken... real food taken community 00:16:18.740 --> 00:16:22.100 taken a little suffering and exercise out of 00:16:22.100 --> 00:16:26.840 day -to -day um uh you know schools workplaces 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:29.740 etc that you think have contributed because obviously 00:16:29.740 --> 00:16:31.559 this obesity crisis that we're in the middle 00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:34.259 of that spans several decades so it's not just 00:16:34.259 --> 00:16:37.620 obviously covid that's you know 20 30 years prior 00:16:37.620 --> 00:16:42.210 well One of the things that really stands out 00:16:42.210 --> 00:16:45.789 to me is my grandparents and my parents lived 00:16:45.789 --> 00:16:49.070 through the Great Depression, the First World 00:16:49.070 --> 00:16:54.789 War, Second World War, and so on. And the thing 00:16:54.789 --> 00:16:59.190 that I am most concerned about being lost is 00:16:59.190 --> 00:17:06.319 the culture that came from that period. back 00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:09.640 then, and I learned this as a young child just 00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:11.859 listening, because when I was growing up, it 00:17:11.859 --> 00:17:17.019 was, as a child, you were a good child if you 00:17:17.019 --> 00:17:19.640 just sat and listened and didn't speak, which 00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:22.980 actually was not a bad education in a lot of 00:17:22.980 --> 00:17:27.440 ways. I mean, I was granted time to speak, but 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:30.539 most of the time as a young person, I was just 00:17:30.539 --> 00:17:33.519 listening. So I was listening to stories and 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:38.200 stories about how strangers would walk up on 00:17:38.200 --> 00:17:43.539 the porch, knock on the door, and offer to dig 00:17:43.539 --> 00:17:46.259 a ditch or cut wood or whatever for a cup of 00:17:46.259 --> 00:17:51.319 soup. And people were willing to accept that. 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:54.839 And as I traveled around the world and as I got 00:17:54.839 --> 00:18:00.859 older, I saw that that same basic culture occurring 00:18:00.859 --> 00:18:07.099 all over the world. in countries that were less 00:18:07.099 --> 00:18:10.680 developed than us.

And so the development itself, 00:18:11.339 --> 00:18:14.359 the industrial revolution in the United States 00:18:14.359 --> 00:18:18.599 and the technology that has followed that has 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:24.119 changed our culture. And that's what I'm most 00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:27.259 concerned about. And I am now concerned with 00:18:27.259 --> 00:18:32.759 AI, that is a great tool in many ways, that it 00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:38.160 is going to help eradicate a portion of our culture. 00:18:38.259 --> 00:18:42.339 And I don't want that to happen. But it's people 00:18:42.339 --> 00:18:44.740 working together. And we were talking about food 00:18:44.740 --> 00:18:48.599 a minute ago. As a child, I watched my grandmother 00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:53.380 cook with lard and butter and all of the terrible 00:18:53.380 --> 00:18:57.319 things, bacon and sizzling in the pan. And then 00:18:57.319 --> 00:18:59.640 she'd take the bacon grease and save it and use 00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:04.430 it for other things. And Yet she and my grandfather 00:19:04.430 --> 00:19:08.329 lived into their 90s. Now, they were eating that 00:19:08.329 --> 00:19:11.490 way, but they weren't eating excessively. The 00:19:11.490 --> 00:19:15.849 key was they were eating what we would now call 00:19:15.849 --> 00:19:18.809 correct amounts of food. And then they were out 00:19:18.809 --> 00:19:21.349 working. They were out doing things. They were 00:19:21.349 --> 00:19:25.130 moving all the time. Whether it was to feed the 00:19:25.130 --> 00:19:27.490 chickens or whether it was to irrigate the fields 00:19:27.490 --> 00:19:30.710 or ride a horse or whatever it might be, they 00:19:30.710 --> 00:19:34.549 were exercising and moving without intentionally 00:19:34.549 --> 00:19:38.910 saying, I'm going to go exercise. They just accepted 00:19:38.910 --> 00:19:40.730 it. And probably most of the foods were whole 00:19:40.730 --> 00:19:43.269 foods, right? Absolutely. But they were baking 00:19:43.269 --> 00:19:46.970 at home. Yes, they were using real butter, but 00:19:46.970 --> 00:19:52.920 sparingly. It was made from real content. And 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:57.420 so that's, I'm sorry that that's lost, that we 00:19:57.420 --> 00:20:01.259 switched to processed foods. And I've tried to 00:20:01.259 --> 00:20:06.559 adjust my diet over the years sometimes. And 00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:14.259 I don't know exactly. I grant that it's probably 00:20:14.259 --> 00:20:19.140 the genes that I was born with. But every time 00:20:19.140 --> 00:20:22.140 I go see my doctors, they keep telling me. your 00:20:22.140 --> 00:20:24.740 cholesterol is great. Your sugar is great. Your 00:20:24.740 --> 00:20:27.819 livers and kidneys are working great. We don't 00:20:27.819 --> 00:20:30.200 know what you're doing, but whatever it is, keep 00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:34.220 doing it. So I, every Friday night I have bourbon 00:20:34.220 --> 00:20:42.349 and cigars and continue my lifestyle. That statement, 00:20:42.529 --> 00:20:45.009 though, if you think about it, that your physician 00:20:45.009 --> 00:20:46.509 is looking at Bloodborne going, I don't know 00:20:46.509 --> 00:20:49.069 what you're doing, when actually, as you just 00:20:49.069 --> 00:20:51.410 alluded to, that is kind of the thing that we 00:20:51.410 --> 00:20:54.660 know works for... you know, millennia prior to 00:20:54.660 --> 00:20:57.779 modern culture, which is if you eat food in its, 00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:00.339 you know, somewhat natural form, if you move 00:21:00.339 --> 00:21:02.819 a lot, if you get good sleep, if you have good 00:21:02.819 --> 00:21:05.299 relationships, you know, you're going to have 00:21:05.299 --> 00:21:08.440 a pretty healthy long life. So we do know, but 00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:10.359 the problem is that even our physicians are being 00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:13.420 taught. to manage diseases rather than really 00:21:13.420 --> 00:21:16.119 lean into the holistic tools that prevent disease 00:21:16.119 --> 00:21:18.119 in the first place brilliance and the basics 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:21.480 right rich yeah and i i was listening again the 00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:23.980 other day to peter attia something he said a 00:21:23.980 --> 00:21:27.700 snippet of one of his interviews and he was making 00:21:27.700 --> 00:21:30.440 the comment that when he went through medical 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:37.099 school he had zero nutrition classes and zero 00:21:40.099 --> 00:21:43.880 How did he put it? Physiology classes? In other 00:21:43.880 --> 00:21:47.200 words, he had nothing to do with physical training 00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:49.940 and nothing to do with nutrition in his medical 00:21:49.940 --> 00:21:53.339 education. That was everything he's learned in 00:21:53.339 --> 00:21:55.720 that, he's learned outside of that, which I thought 00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:57.839 was really interesting because there was a group 00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:01.599 of other doctors or surgeons that were absolutely 00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:06.140 agreeing with him that, in fact, they did not 00:22:06.140 --> 00:22:12.839 get that kind of training. Yeah, it's that environment. 00:22:12.940 --> 00:22:14.880 Again, I've had so many physicians on here said 00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:16.779 exactly the same thing. There's I think one or 00:22:16.779 --> 00:22:18.940 two, but they went down the kind of naturopath 00:22:18.940 --> 00:22:22.660 or functional medicine route where obviously 00:22:22.660 --> 00:22:25.160 the focus is a lot more prevention. But everyone 00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:27.700 else, not only have they got that little education, 00:22:27.940 --> 00:22:29.559 but then they get into a system where they got 00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:31.759 to churn through these patients to make enough 00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:33.640 money because people think the doctors are all 00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:35.940 really well paid. Well, they are if they see, 00:22:35.940 --> 00:22:39.700

you know, 20 patients that day. which is a, you 00:22:39.700 --> 00:22:43.059 know, 15, 10 minute consultation. So it's, it's 00:22:43.059 --> 00:22:45.519 sadly a system that again, sets you up for, well, 00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:47.539 I'll just give you a prescription. It's easier, 00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:49.740 you know, rather than try and mentor you for 00:22:49.740 --> 00:22:53.240 an hour on, you know, going to visit a local 00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:57.200 gym or a go -ruck community or, you know, find 00:22:57.200 --> 00:22:59.000 a nutritionist, whatever it is that would actually 00:22:59.000 --> 00:23:01.460 start that prevention wheel from. You see the 00:23:01.460 --> 00:23:05.880 ad on whatever YouTube or TV, and it says, Oh, 00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:08.799 you've got this problem. And This is the pill 00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:11.200 solution. And then there's, you know, 30 seconds 00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:13.160 full of all the horrible things that could happen 00:23:13.160 --> 00:23:16.119 to you. And then you go to your doctor and you 00:23:16.119 --> 00:23:18.240 walk in there and you say, well, I want this 00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:20.660 solution for this problem that I have. Essentially, 00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:22.799 they just become drug dealers. It's like, hey, 00:23:22.819 --> 00:23:25.640 you know, bag of drugs on the street corner. 00:23:25.720 --> 00:23:27.400 There you go. Except, you know, you got a whole 00:23:27.400 --> 00:23:30.000 system around it. So it's legit. Well, I think, 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:32.380 I mean, look what we're talking about that are 00:23:32.380 --> 00:23:36.460 the issues. It's the underlying systems, right? 00:23:36.940 --> 00:23:40.579 The food industry is a for -profit organization, 00:23:40.579 --> 00:23:46.980 and it's about making money. And maybe a lot 00:23:46.980 --> 00:23:50.920 of those choices are pushing products into more 00:23:50.920 --> 00:23:53.140 and more processed foods and things like that. 00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:57.779 And then you've got big pharma. Again, they profit 00:23:57.779 --> 00:24:01.539 when people are taking a lot of their drugs. 00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:05.980 our systems are working against sometimes not, 00:24:06.059 --> 00:24:08.299 you know, all the time. I mean, there's a lot 00:24:08.299 --> 00:24:11.599 of amazing, you know, things that have come out 00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:17.200 and technology, but he likes to say the hardest 00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:20.180 thing to do is to simplify your life. And that's 00:24:20.180 --> 00:24:22.920 something that a lot of these things are just 00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:26.359 trying to, you know, improve, improve, optimize, 00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:28.599 you know, all these things make it easy when 00:24:28.599 --> 00:24:32.779 to start out. Maybe it's like, Eat whole foods, 00:24:32.980 --> 00:24:36.440 get more sleep, move your body more and those 00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:38.839 things. And then if those things aren't working, 00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:42.819 then you need to look into follow on. But I don't 00:24:42.819 --> 00:24:45.359 think I don't think a lot of enough people are 00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:48.539 starting at those basic building blocks or don't 00:24:48.539 --> 00:24:50.259 know about it. It is stacked against us, but 00:24:50.259 --> 00:24:52.119 this is America and you have the freedom to think 00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:55.220 for yourself and to take responsibility for what 00:24:55.220 --> 00:24:57.890 you choose. and you have lots of options here 00:24:57.890 --> 00:25:00.849 to include you know go outside and eat what you 00:25:00.849 --> 00:25:03.809 want to eat and you know yeah i mean sometimes 00:25:03.809 --> 00:25:06.250 there's too many options i i saw something really 00:25:06.250 --> 00:25:10.990 funny on online the other day there's that dr 00:25:10.990 --> 00:25:15.410 nurik who her she's kind of famous for being 00:25:15.410 --> 00:25:17.750 very knowledgeable about the food industry and 00:25:17.750 --> 00:25:21.930 nutrition and she's debunks a lot of like influencer 00:25:21.930 --> 00:25:28.460 style um fear mongering and, you know, misinformation 00:25:28.460 --> 00:25:31.019 out there. That's kind of her shtick. She's gone 00:25:31.019 --> 00:25:35.000 on and basically shows a stitch and then basically 00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:37.319 says, well, that's not really the whole story 00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:39.960 and puts a context to it. Well, the other day 00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:43.339 she was stitching somebody who was talking about 00:25:43.339 --> 00:25:45.500 how, oh, my gosh, if you eat too many banana 00:25:45.500 --> 00:25:48.619 in your smoothie, it it will make you not able 00:25:48.619 --> 00:25:50.960 to absorb all the other nutrients. And, you know, 00:25:50.980 --> 00:25:53.960 bananas are bad. And it had like millions of 00:25:53.960 --> 00:25:57.210 views. And she went on there and said, this isn't 00:25:57.210 --> 00:25:59.490 really the case. There was one study of eight 00:25:59.490 --> 00:26:02.470 people and it like was a very small percentage. 00:26:02.509 --> 00:26:05.410 And, you know, it's OK to use bananas in your 00:26:05.410 --> 00:26:08.470 smoothie, in other words. And then the original 00:26:08.470 --> 00:26:12.769 influencer stitched her and was sitting in his 00:26:12.769 --> 00:26:16.829 kitchen and he said, I'm sorry, I misrepresented 00:26:16.829 --> 00:26:18.910 this. I'm going to start putting bananas back 00:26:18.910 --> 00:26:22.900 in my smoothie. And then she did it back and 00:26:22.900 --> 00:26:26.539 she said, you know, like, I often hear responses 00:26:26.539 --> 00:26:28.680 and they're not, sometimes they're private, but 00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:31.380 this one was, it was like a funny exchange. It's 00:26:31.380 --> 00:26:35.220 like, it's hopefully we're getting to where, 00:26:35.339 --> 00:26:38.079 you know, the good information is coming out 00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:40.279 there. But I

have a problem with all the fear 00:26:40.279 --> 00:26:43.519 mongering. That's all the noise. It's hard to 00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:46.299 cut through the noise. There was this cadre and 00:26:46.299 --> 00:26:49.970 he loved to say. hope in one hand and shit in 00:26:49.970 --> 00:26:51.829 the other and see which one fills up faster. 00:26:55.789 --> 00:27:02.430 Well, speaking of cadres, I want, I want to shift 00:27:02.430 --> 00:27:04.150 the conversation. And that was, that was amazing. 00:27:04.190 --> 00:27:05.589 This is what people need to hear. And like, this 00:27:05.589 --> 00:27:08.569 is a free library of like 1200 plus episodes 00:27:08.569 --> 00:27:10.970 now. And a lot of people are coming from, you 00:27:10.970 --> 00:27:13.009 know, the, the nutrition space and the exercise 00:27:13.009 --> 00:27:16.460 space. There's a free resource right there. And 00:27:16.460 --> 00:27:18.380 I think this is the thing, it's offsetting all 00:27:18.380 --> 00:27:22.039 the nastiness and the self -centered profiteering 00:27:22.039 --> 00:27:25.720 of people's illnesses with communities like mine, 00:27:25.740 --> 00:27:29.380 communities like yours. A few months after we 00:27:29.380 --> 00:27:32.740 spoke, you guys had the very first Sandlot Jacks 00:27:32.740 --> 00:27:36.140 in Jacksonville Met Park. And I brought my son 00:27:36.140 --> 00:27:38.920 over and it was incredible. Before we kind of 00:27:38.920 --> 00:27:40.619 dive into some of the things that you guys had, 00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:42.460 talk to me about that. We're coming out of the 00:27:42.460 --> 00:27:45.559 pandemic. People need sunlight. They need exercise. 00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:48.579 They need community. What made you create that 00:27:48.579 --> 00:27:50.720 event? And then talk to me about, you know, how 00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:54.619 it went that first time. Yeah, I mean, it was 00:27:54.619 --> 00:27:58.839 kind of pretty irreverent the way that we went 00:27:58.839 --> 00:28:01.579 about it. I mean, it was Florida. And, you know, 00:28:01.579 --> 00:28:05.500 at that time, you know, the rest of the country 00:28:05.500 --> 00:28:08.839 was putting pictures of the beaches in Florida. 00:28:09.400 --> 00:28:12.740 on the front pages of their newspapers. And they 00:28:12.740 --> 00:28:14.740 were saying that Florida's gone crazy because 00:28:14.740 --> 00:28:18.660 people were underneath sunshades on our own beaches 00:28:18.660 --> 00:28:21.880 in Florida. And it was meant to be this enormous 00:28:21.880 --> 00:28:24.819 dig about how we're not taking the whole COVID 00:28:24.819 --> 00:28:32.480 thing seriously. And look, it's so easy to lob 00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:35.200 in these grenades. There's never a retraction. 00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:38.160 It's never a, oh, actually, that was actually 00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:40.740 really good that you guys were exercising on 00:28:40.740 --> 00:28:42.700 the beach and that people were going out to the 00:28:42.700 --> 00:28:44.559 beach and getting in the ocean. That's actually 00:28:44.559 --> 00:28:46.660 really good. You know, there's no retraction 00:28:46.660 --> 00:28:50.000 to that. So instead of hiding and, you know, 00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:52.400 behind, you know, not doing stuff underhandedly. 00:28:52.460 --> 00:28:55.839 Sit on your Zoom and, you know, criticize everybody 00:28:55.839 --> 00:29:00.400 else. And that's just kind of that's the thing 00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:02.880 that, you know, Rich talks about a loss of culture. 00:29:03.500 --> 00:29:06.180 that he's worried about. I just, I want to focus 00:29:06.180 --> 00:29:09.460 on doing stuff and on Americans and our ability 00:29:09.460 --> 00:29:13.220 to do things and to be defined by that, you know, 00:29:13.240 --> 00:29:16.339 who we are and what we do. And so, you know, 00:29:16.339 --> 00:29:19.819 the whole, I think it's healthy for people to 00:29:19.819 --> 00:29:23.059 come together, social fitness in a field in Florida. 00:29:23.079 --> 00:29:26.019 And there's all different sorts of. community 00:29:26.019 --> 00:29:28.619 activities that are fitness in nature that are 00:29:28.619 --> 00:29:30.759 really healthy and it's social and it's physical 00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:33.019 and it's mental and it's all of those things. 00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:34.740 And that was the premise for Sandlot Jackson. 00:29:34.779 --> 00:29:38.799 So it was meant to be this kind of broad community 00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:43.039 play and a, let me call up friends and lots of 00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:46.599 people. And I, I mean, I haven't, I didn't work 00:29:46.599 --> 00:29:49.319 that hard since the very early days of go row 00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:52.319 calling people up and say, please come. And everybody 00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:54.819 that I asked to come came and I'll be forever 00:29:54.819 --> 00:29:57.299 grateful for those people. I still have this 00:29:57.299 --> 00:29:59.720 sort of signed poster with the people that gave 00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:02.220 the fit talks. And, you know, I have a lot of 00:30:02.220 --> 00:30:04.460 memorabilia to include, you know, the big signed 00:30:04.460 --> 00:30:07.680 wall right there in Em's office, the community 00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:11.220 wall. And it's just a reminder of coming together 00:30:11.220 --> 00:30:14.720 as a really, really important kind of cornerstone 00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:19.700 and a fountainhead for who we are. And so, you 00:30:19.700 --> 00:30:21.640 know, I thought it was important to do at that 00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:28.079 time. It's funny. I had a conversation with someone 00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:29.500 the other day, and then we're talking about the 00:30:29.500 --> 00:30:32.099 cuts in the first responder community after 2008 00:30:32.099 --> 00:30:35.460 and how so few of that, you know, those men and 00:30:35.460 --> 00:30:38.980 women staffing wise were returned to how they 00:30:38.980 --> 00:30:43.500 were pre pre

crash. And. When you look at the 00:30:43.500 --> 00:30:46.240 08 crash, no one was held responsible. The banks 00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:48.500 were actually given bailouts. When you look at 00:30:48.500 --> 00:30:50.480 COVID, same thing. No one was held responsible. 00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:53.799 Not only did we not learn a lot of lessons, no 00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:56.140 one that gave misinformation, no one that vilified 00:30:56.140 --> 00:30:59.140 Sweden or Florida, who actually had the lowest 00:30:59.140 --> 00:31:01.660 cases in the end, which blows my mind because 00:31:01.660 --> 00:31:03.460 we've got a huge elderly population here. So 00:31:03.460 --> 00:31:06.180 I guess community and sunshine and fresh air 00:31:06.180 --> 00:31:09.859 is a good thing. But then you look at Iceland. 00:31:10.839 --> 00:31:13.440 Anyone that created the crash in Iceland was 00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:15.859 in prison. You know what I mean? Whereas here, 00:31:16.019 --> 00:31:18.240 OxyContin, the Sackler family, is still enjoying 00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:21.279 time in their mansions in America, even though 00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:24.740 100 ,000 Americans die of OxyContin or now fentanyl 00:31:24.740 --> 00:31:27.319 every single year. You know what I mean? So firstly, 00:31:27.380 --> 00:31:29.140 from the accountability point of view, I couldn't 00:31:29.140 --> 00:31:31.380 agree more. Not only is there not a retraction, 00:31:31.619 --> 00:31:34.380 no one is actually held responsible so they can 00:31:34.380 --> 00:31:37.339 reflect and make sure it doesn't happen a second 00:31:37.339 --> 00:31:39.980 time. People know what they did, though. I mean... 00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:43.339 We don't, whatever, man. We just keep moving 00:31:43.339 --> 00:31:45.859 forward, keep doing stuff. But it's just kind 00:31:45.859 --> 00:31:50.839 of a bummer the way that all that goes. Absolutely. 00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:54.099 But I did a Spartan race, the first one that 00:31:54.099 --> 00:31:55.680 they did in Florida, and it was just amazing. 00:31:55.779 --> 00:31:58.859 People were just so glad to be with each other 00:31:58.859 --> 00:32:01.079 again. And we're talking about exposure to viruses. 00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:04.059 We're crawling through swamps and mud and all 00:32:04.059 --> 00:32:06.660 kinds of stuff. So it's back to the good old 00:32:06.660 --> 00:32:10.660 bacteria fest that we had prior. But Sandlot 00:32:10.660 --> 00:32:14.440 Jackson is amazing. I want some MRSA. Exactly. 00:32:15.740 --> 00:32:17.799 Exactly. Give me some herpes zoster. There we 00:32:17.799 --> 00:32:21.619 go. But no, but it was, it was truly incredible. 00:32:21.720 --> 00:32:24.039 And you had so many people of all different backgrounds 00:32:24.039 --> 00:32:26.640 from CrossFit, from, you know, special forces, 00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:30.400 from, you know, Sarah Wilkinson and just so many 00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:33.099 amazing people. I was actually looking at the 00:32:33.099 --> 00:32:35.700 Facebook page the other day and the skateboarders 00:32:35.700 --> 00:32:37.940 that you had there. I mean, it was just so diverse. 00:32:38.859 --> 00:32:41.619 What was the feedback then that you got? So many 00:32:41.619 --> 00:32:43.740 of us were just yearning to be around each other 00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:45.900 again and do the very things that we all believed 00:32:45.900 --> 00:32:48.980 were the reason that we were healthy and didn't 00:32:48.980 --> 00:32:51.019 have an issue with the virus in the first place. 00:32:51.259 --> 00:32:53.200 But what was the feedback you got at the end 00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:56.259 of that? I mean, I think people share that sentiment 00:32:56.259 --> 00:32:58.259 that people were, look, we were happy to see 00:32:58.259 --> 00:33:01.160 our friends. And that was the genesis of what 00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:04.640 that festival was. And so we had, you know, thousands 00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:07.599 of people that. joined us and we had fun doing 00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:10.839 it. And so that was the vibe. And if you throw 00:33:10.839 --> 00:33:13.279 a party and you have fun at your own party and 00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:16.180 people show up, you know, chances are they had, 00:33:16.180 --> 00:33:18.779 they had a bunch of fun too. So that was great. 00:33:18.839 --> 00:33:21.319 And it's one of those things where the lesson 00:33:21.319 --> 00:33:25.700 for GORUCK was also coming out of that time where 00:33:25.700 --> 00:33:32.059 everybody was an individual on a Zoom call with 00:33:32.059 --> 00:33:36.740 their name at the bottom of the box. That was 00:33:36.740 --> 00:33:40.619 a great lesson for me personally, that you can 00:33:40.619 --> 00:33:43.720 call up your friends and ask them to support 00:33:43.720 --> 00:33:47.059 what you're doing and they will say yes. And 00:33:47.059 --> 00:33:53.599 that was being rapidly forgotten in 2020, 2021, 00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:56.700 stuff like that. So it was a really great lesson. 00:33:56.759 --> 00:33:59.380 And I have those reminders around the office 00:33:59.380 --> 00:34:03.539 now. And that's what I think of. I think it deepened 00:34:03.539 --> 00:34:07.000 a lot of those relationships. Right. It's like, 00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:12.539 you know, you get the world was I mean, it was 00:34:12.539 --> 00:34:15.219 COVID was a time when everyone kind of took a 00:34:15.219 --> 00:34:17.840 step back and there was this kind of beautiful 00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:19.980 pause for a lot of things. And I think we're 00:34:19.980 --> 00:34:22.679 already back in the acceleration of everything, 00:34:22.860 --> 00:34:26.940 but it allowed some time to. You know, before 00:34:26.940 --> 00:34:28.780 it's like, hey, let's work together on something. 00:34:28.860 --> 00:34:30.739 Well, I'm busy, I'm busy, you know, and it's 00:34:30.739 --> 00:34:33.300 like, you know, a year goes by and you haven't 00:34:33.300 --> 00:34:36.539 done the

things that you wanted to do. But that 00:34:36.539 --> 00:34:40.280 time allowed the space for it. And we were able 00:34:40.280 --> 00:34:44.539 to deepen relationships across the board. And 00:34:44.539 --> 00:34:48.059 I think a lot of a lot of that has been sustained, 00:34:48.199 --> 00:34:51.920 even in or until the next time, you know, until 00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:54.239 we can all get together again or do something 00:34:54.239 --> 00:35:01.869 else. Rich, anything to add? I think, excuse 00:35:01.869 --> 00:35:07.210 me, the thing that struck me about Sandlot, and 00:35:07.210 --> 00:35:12.329 to Jason's point, it was about friends that were 00:35:12.329 --> 00:35:18.650 coming together to reestablish a community that 00:35:18.650 --> 00:35:23.480 never disappeared, but it kind of... lurked in 00:35:23.480 --> 00:35:26.559 the shadows for a long time. And it was a bold 00:35:26.559 --> 00:35:29.699 statement to come back and bring all of those 00:35:29.699 --> 00:35:33.679 people together. And every one of them, it was 00:35:33.679 --> 00:35:35.960 kind of amazing to me because I kept waiting 00:35:35.960 --> 00:35:38.980 for the various factions that were there, all 00:35:38.980 --> 00:35:41.659 of them positive, but I was waiting for them 00:35:41.659 --> 00:35:46.619 to start grumbling with each other and upscaling 00:35:46.619 --> 00:35:50.860 each other. And nobody did that. It was truly 00:35:50.860 --> 00:35:53.659 a group of people that came together that were 00:35:53.659 --> 00:35:56.739 very positive about wanting to work together 00:35:56.739 --> 00:36:03.119 and reestablish a better community. Beautiful. 00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:05.679 Well, I want to shift and I'll stay with you, 00:36:05.719 --> 00:36:09.360 Rich. I know in both of our conversations, if 00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:13.019 I'm not mistaken, with you having the origin 00:36:13.019 --> 00:36:15.380 of your military service being Vietnam and obviously 00:36:15.380 --> 00:36:19.239 the NB and Mogadishu. Your voice is very, very 00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:21.159 important on this particular topic. But I know 00:36:21.159 --> 00:36:23.800 we talked about the checks and balances when 00:36:23.800 --> 00:36:25.840 it came to war. And then the last time we all 00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:27.719 talked was the Afghan withdrawal. And again, 00:36:27.780 --> 00:36:30.460 the reflection on, you know, what was done well, 00:36:30.500 --> 00:36:33.679 what was done poorly, etc. But now as we sit 00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:35.900 here talking, you know, a lot of our men and 00:36:35.900 --> 00:36:38.920 women are overseas again in a conflict after 00:36:38.920 --> 00:36:41.619 20 plus years in the Middle East that we just 00:36:41.619 --> 00:36:43.739 finished the last time that you and I sat down. 00:36:44.940 --> 00:36:47.860 And what worries me is, just as we've said, there 00:36:47.860 --> 00:36:50.119 are areas of the food industry, there's areas 00:36:50.119 --> 00:36:53.500 of big pharma that make a lot of money when Americans 00:36:53.500 --> 00:36:57.139 are sick. There's not much money in healthy people. 00:36:57.239 --> 00:36:59.519 There's no money in dead people, apart from when 00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:03.159 you first bury them. But there's a lot of money 00:37:03.159 --> 00:37:06.840 in the sick, and we know that. I think, let me 00:37:06.840 --> 00:37:10.519 see, 20 % of our GDP goes to healthcare, which 00:37:10.519 --> 00:37:13.969 is insane. But then when we talk about military 00:37:13.969 --> 00:37:16.610 again, when there are a lot of people that make 00:37:16.610 --> 00:37:19.929 a lot of money, when our young boys and girls 00:37:19.929 --> 00:37:21.989 really are being sent overseas with our flag 00:37:21.989 --> 00:37:25.050 on their shoulder, where is the resistance to 00:37:25.050 --> 00:37:28.710 all the underlining that we're only going to 00:37:28.710 --> 00:37:31.010 send them when it's absolutely necessary? And 00:37:31.010 --> 00:37:32.969 obviously, World War II is a good example of 00:37:32.969 --> 00:37:35.570 that. So now here we are, and then we've got 00:37:35.570 --> 00:37:38.190 our troops deployed in Iran. I'm not going to 00:37:38.190 --> 00:37:40.610 load the question, but starting with you, Rich. 00:37:41.400 --> 00:37:44.780 Just your reflection on that since we last spoke. 00:37:48.039 --> 00:37:50.800 For the record, he's the only one here that's 00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:55.760 been to Iran. Boots on the ground. Even better. 00:37:56.380 --> 00:38:03.519 Well, my concern was and always has been for 00:38:03.519 --> 00:38:06.219 the individual soldier. That's what it really 00:38:06.219 --> 00:38:11.280 is all about. And when I say soldier, I include 00:38:11.280 --> 00:38:15.579 all services. But given that I was Army, I'll 00:38:15.579 --> 00:38:21.659 say soldier. That those lives should be lost 00:38:21.659 --> 00:38:27.239 sparingly. There is no reason to just throw people 00:38:27.239 --> 00:38:33.659 into the Khyber Pass, if you will, to stop the 00:38:33.659 --> 00:38:35.920 screaming hordes of Mongols that are on their 00:38:35.920 --> 00:38:42.880 way. To do anything in that arena, you have to 00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:47.699 have a clear mission statement. And you have 00:38:47.699 --> 00:38:52.599 to have right and left limits. And I have not 00:38:52.599 --> 00:38:55.139 seen anything like that. And I don't want to 00:38:55.139 --> 00:38:58.860 get into the politics particularly, but it's 00:38:58.860 --> 00:39:04.980 all about the strategy and the tactics. No one 00:39:04.980 --> 00:39:13.019 has ever conquered. a nation state without putting 00:39:13.019 --> 00:39:18.840 boots on the ground. You can pound them with 00:39:18.840 --> 00:39:23.380 air power and naval artillery and anything else 00:39:23.380 --> 00:39:31.440 you can think of, but you cannot stop or conquer 00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:33.880 a nation state without putting people on the 00:39:33.880 --> 00:39:36.699

ground. And I hope to goodness we never do that. 00:39:37.190 --> 00:39:39.769 I don't think that's particularly appropriate 00:39:39.769 --> 00:39:45.829 in this case. And I have yet to hear any kind 00:39:45.829 --> 00:39:52.570 of clarity about why we're there other than the 00:39:52.570 --> 00:39:55.650 economics of the situation are what's really 00:39:55.650 --> 00:40:01.750 terrible. And I am concerned that there are underlying 00:40:01.750 --> 00:40:08.980 reasons other than... U -235 that's been highly 00:40:08.980 --> 00:40:15.519 prepared that's laying under a mountain right 00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:19.460 now. I just don't, I don't see, I'm looking for 00:40:19.460 --> 00:40:22.780 purpose. Everything in life has a purpose and 00:40:22.780 --> 00:40:27.239 I don't see a purpose. And without a purpose, 00:40:27.260 --> 00:40:34.929 I refuse to waste lives. Well, I remember when 00:40:34.929 --> 00:40:38.449 you and I did our first interview together, you 00:40:38.449 --> 00:40:42.190 were talking about Saigon, one of the cities 00:40:42.190 --> 00:40:44.949 in Vietnam. And you said it's a lesser known 00:40:44.949 --> 00:40:48.409 fact by a lot of us that there was a very economic 00:40:48.409 --> 00:40:51.750 strategic reason for having that city. And that 00:40:51.750 --> 00:40:54.789 was kind of like an underlying. cause of the 00:40:54.789 --> 00:40:56.909 Vietnam War, aside from the communism, obviously, 00:40:56.989 --> 00:40:59.469 that, you know, a lot of us were oblivious to. 00:40:59.909 --> 00:41:02.409 And this is, you know, what you see as a reoccurring 00:41:02.409 --> 00:41:03.989 theme, whether it's Iraq, or some of these other 00:41:03.989 --> 00:41:06.630 ones, there seems to be a financial gain, again, 00:41:06.769 --> 00:41:10.510 at the expense of the American people, that we're 00:41:10.510 --> 00:41:13.110 not told about. And it's, it's funny, because 00:41:13.110 --> 00:41:14.730 people say, I don't want to talk about politics. 00:41:14.789 --> 00:41:17.269 But is that really politics, like the well being? 00:41:17.789 --> 00:41:20.090 of our nation, the well -being of our military 00:41:20.090 --> 00:41:22.730 members. That's not politics. That's humanity. 00:41:23.170 --> 00:41:25.469 That's coming from a place that we care, whether 00:41:25.469 --> 00:41:28.429 you're left or right or whatever. And I feel 00:41:28.429 --> 00:41:30.349 like these days that's being used as a way of 00:41:30.349 --> 00:41:32.769 shutting down conversations that need to be had 00:41:32.769 --> 00:41:35.750 when something is right or wrong or whatever 00:41:35.750 --> 00:41:37.789 it is, regardless of the color of the tie the 00:41:37.789 --> 00:41:43.860 person's wearing. Good point. So you said that 00:41:43.860 --> 00:41:45.980 you were in Iran before we kind of move on and 00:41:45.980 --> 00:41:47.840 get Jason and Emily's kind of perspective on 00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:50.880 this as well. You don't have to go into into 00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:52.719 details, of course, because I'm assuming that 00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:54.519 you were there for some secret reasons that. 00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:56.920 don't need to be disclosed, but your perception 00:41:56.920 --> 00:42:00.559 of the Iranian people at that time, because again, 00:42:00.699 --> 00:42:02.400 you know, we're, we're, we're normally given 00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:06.519 the boogeyman and then you hear the men. Eagle 00:42:06.519 --> 00:42:12.039 claws. Pretty well known. Pretty declassified. 00:42:13.900 --> 00:42:17.659 It strikes me and it's true of Iran and, and 00:42:17.659 --> 00:42:22.159 many other countries that I've been to the average 00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:25.800 person in those countries. is just like every 00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:29.880 average American. They have their own religion, 00:42:30.019 --> 00:42:32.960 they have their own culture, but it's all about 00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:38.559 their entire life structure is about maintaining 00:42:38.559 --> 00:42:43.659 and growing their families and making life better 00:42:43.659 --> 00:42:47.579 for them on a step -by -step basis. And that's 00:42:47.579 --> 00:42:50.800 what it's all about. It's about care of family 00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:54.110 and then care of community. and care of nation. 00:42:55.130 --> 00:42:57.550 That's one of the reasons that GORUCK has been 00:42:57.550 --> 00:43:03.530 so successful. We build better Americans who 00:43:03.530 --> 00:43:06.869 build better communities, who build better nations. 00:43:07.269 --> 00:43:11.730 And that's what democracy and republics and everything 00:43:11.730 --> 00:43:14.829 else are all about. And truly, regardless of 00:43:14.829 --> 00:43:18.409 the regime, the people in every country I've 00:43:18.409 --> 00:43:22.690 been to have had that same mindset. that they 00:43:22.690 --> 00:43:26.070 want what's best for their family and what's 00:43:26.070 --> 00:43:29.590 best for their community. And that's, so the 00:43:29.590 --> 00:43:33.469 people I, the few that I did meet in Iran, I 00:43:33.469 --> 00:43:36.309 didn't meet a whole lot because we were doing 00:43:36.309 --> 00:43:40.969 some other business. But the Iranians that I 00:43:40.969 --> 00:43:45.400 have met, stellar people. I knew a rug dealer 00:43:45.400 --> 00:43:50.599 one time. That's another story. Did you say a 00:43:50.599 --> 00:43:57.079 rug dealer or a drug dealer? Carpet. But the 00:43:57.079 --> 00:44:00.260 average guy there that's keeping goats and living 00:44:00.260 --> 00:44:04.500 his life and raising a family, salt of the earth. 00:44:05.940 --> 00:44:09.980 Yeah. There's that Anthony Bourdain. you know, 00:44:09.980 --> 00:44:14.820 spot when he goes to Iran and same thing. He's 00:44:14.820 --> 00:44:16.679 like, yeah, yeah, there's some anti -American 00:44:16.679 --> 00:44:20.139 propaganda on this wall, but never have I felt 00:44:20.139 --> 00:44:23.800 more welcomed, you know, the salt of

the earth 00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:26.340 type of people. And you can find those kind of 00:44:26.340 --> 00:44:28.300 people anywhere. And Anthony Bourdain certainly 00:44:28.300 --> 00:44:33.619 could. Well, Emily, your perspective, obviously, 00:44:33.719 --> 00:44:35.820 again, you've got the CIA background, so the 00:44:35.820 --> 00:44:38.460 intelligence and stuff, maybe some of the messaging 00:44:38.460 --> 00:44:41.400 that we're being given at the moment, again, 00:44:41.519 --> 00:44:44.460 without loading it. Last time we spoke, we just 00:44:44.460 --> 00:44:46.639 finally came out of a conflict. Now, obviously, 00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:49.019 our service people are getting back into it again. 00:44:49.139 --> 00:44:50.940 What is your perspective? I'm certainly not an 00:44:50.940 --> 00:44:54.579 expert on this part of the world, but I did when 00:44:54.579 --> 00:44:59.690 I was in get to. get to meet Mark Bowden, who 00:44:59.690 --> 00:45:03.429 wrote The Guest of the Ayatollah, and hear him 00:45:03.429 --> 00:45:05.949 speak and meet some of the hostages, which was 00:45:05.949 --> 00:45:13.050 really amazing. It upsets me, James, how quickly 00:45:13.050 --> 00:45:16.829 we forget, you know, the lessons that we learned 00:45:16.829 --> 00:45:20.789 over two decades of war. We were just up in D 00:45:20.789 --> 00:45:24.289 .C. where the Global War on Terrorism Memorial 00:45:24.289 --> 00:45:28.909 is going to be. you know, is being created. And 00:45:28.909 --> 00:45:34.289 hopefully we'll be, they'll be able to start 00:45:34.289 --> 00:45:40.230 building it soon. But we, we were all affected 00:45:40.230 --> 00:45:44.110 very deeply by the post 9 -11 world. And it, 00:45:44.269 --> 00:45:49.269 many of us were called to serve during that time. 00:45:49.329 --> 00:45:51.769 And we joined other people who had been serving. 00:45:52.409 --> 00:45:56.719 And The world has been different ever since in 00:45:56.719 --> 00:46:01.280 a way. And it makes me sad to not learn those 00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:04.739 lessons and apply it differently. And as someone 00:46:04.739 --> 00:46:07.599 who worked in the embassy and had a daytime job, 00:46:07.719 --> 00:46:11.599 day job as a diplomat and a night job as an intel 00:46:11.599 --> 00:46:17.639 officer, I like, I mean, maybe call me old school, 00:46:17.719 --> 00:46:21.610 but I like trying diplomacy. I like trying the 00:46:21.610 --> 00:46:25.190 hearts and minds approach first and, you know, 00:46:25.190 --> 00:46:28.269 and then moving into, you know, that gray world 00:46:28.269 --> 00:46:32.630 of intel collection when things are maybe not 00:46:32.630 --> 00:46:37.449 going. And war is a last and final option. And 00:46:37.449 --> 00:46:39.650 I just, that's what I want to see. I think a 00:46:39.650 --> 00:46:43.090 lot of people can, you know, relate to that. 00:46:43.150 --> 00:46:45.750 And you don't have to be a pacifist to want that, 00:46:45.789 --> 00:46:50.159 to want it to be, this is the last resort. And 00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:56.440 I think, you know, we've seen, we've read about 00:46:56.440 --> 00:47:01.039 and perhaps even seen in other places where there 00:47:01.039 --> 00:47:03.960 maybe wasn't another option and fight. It did 00:47:03.960 --> 00:47:08.639 have to result in fighting. But that, you know, 00:47:08.639 --> 00:47:12.679 people who have been to war -torn places or seen 00:47:12.679 --> 00:47:16.139 war experience firsthand will tell you this is 00:47:16.139 --> 00:47:18.940 not the solution. This is not the starting point. 00:47:19.550 --> 00:47:22.690 And so with the current situation, it just felt 00:47:22.690 --> 00:47:30.190 like we skipped a few steps. It really is disappointing 00:47:30.190 --> 00:47:32.510 because I even had a guest who I hope was going 00:47:32.510 --> 00:47:35.550 to be a bright future in the world of politics. 00:47:35.650 --> 00:47:39.349 And that individual was all about diplomacy and 00:47:39.349 --> 00:47:43.010 then ended up changing teams and did a complete 00:47:43.010 --> 00:47:46.309 180. And this is what I hear from all the people 00:47:46.309 --> 00:47:48.210 that have actually seen combat. It is that, you 00:47:48.210 --> 00:47:50.710 know. warrior in a garden mentality they're not 00:47:50.710 --> 00:47:53.389 beating their chests and you know ramboing around 00:47:53.389 --> 00:47:55.650 the world they're like we need to make sure it 00:47:55.650 --> 00:47:58.130 never happens again that was awful but we need 00:47:58.130 --> 00:48:01.670 to of course be prepared and if we need to actually 00:48:01.670 --> 00:48:04.789 react react with the full support of the country 00:48:04.789 --> 00:48:07.130 and the full support of the military but it should 00:48:07.130 --> 00:48:09.690 be a deterrent primarily like you said not you 00:48:09.690 --> 00:48:11.690 know the bully in the schoolyard running around 00:48:11.690 --> 00:48:15.530 and kicking all the small kids yes just my perspective 00:48:15.530 --> 00:48:19.230 again Well, Jason, I agree to put a point to 00:48:19.230 --> 00:48:24.949 it. Nobody wants peace more than a soldier. Yes. 00:48:25.050 --> 00:48:30.389 Or a general sending soldiers into battle. Yeah, 00:48:30.429 --> 00:48:32.170 I mean, I'd be cool with less war in the Middle 00:48:32.170 --> 00:48:36.829 East. I mean, but look, if you sort of said. 00:48:38.269 --> 00:48:40.630 I still know what we're actually doing, and I 00:48:40.630 --> 00:48:44.480 don't say that to. I just say that factually. 00:48:44.579 --> 00:48:46.840 I mean, if you set a goal and you said, hey, 00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:51.599 we just cannot accept any form of nuclear weapons 00:48:51.599 --> 00:48:54.039 or the capability to do that in Iran and we're 00:48:54.039 --> 00:48:57.980 going to see this through, then OK, maybe. But 00:48:57.980 --> 00:49:03.500 I mean, define it. Maybe don't say we already 00:49:03.500 --> 00:49:05.920 obliterated it at some other

point in time. It 00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:09.960 gets confusing. Yes, it's confusing. so if that's 00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:12.139 the thing then cool let's get behind it i mean 00:49:12.139 --> 00:49:16.539 you know you just it's really clear and i i do 00:49:16.539 --> 00:49:21.840 world war ii is almost so easy to point to as 00:49:21.840 --> 00:49:26.079 good bad you know necessary and the whole country 00:49:26.079 --> 00:49:28.619 was behind it and we all knew it in the same 00:49:28.619 --> 00:49:32.760 way that after 9 11 you know go get bin laden 00:49:32.760 --> 00:49:37.690 felt like the right thing to do i mean I just 00:49:37.690 --> 00:49:39.769 don't know that those are going to... World War 00:49:39.769 --> 00:49:43.650 II is not coming back. This sort of, hey, you've 00:49:43.650 --> 00:49:49.170 got economics tied to geopolitics and oil. Oh, 00:49:49.170 --> 00:49:51.230 by the way, I know that we've got battery cars 00:49:51.230 --> 00:49:55.210 now, but oil is not dead yet, people. And there's 00:49:55.210 --> 00:49:57.949 a really important sector and you're paying lots 00:49:57.949 --> 00:50:00.389 of money at the pump and people care about that. 00:50:01.070 --> 00:50:04.369 Everybody does. What's the point here? If we're 00:50:04.369 --> 00:50:08.570 trying to... grow stronger as a nation and it's 00:50:08.570 --> 00:50:10.329 supposed to be tied to business and economics, 00:50:10.570 --> 00:50:13.010 then I don't know how the current trajectory 00:50:13.010 --> 00:50:17.250 is working to do that, certainly in Iran. And 00:50:17.250 --> 00:50:20.250 I'm taking the more practical side because the 00:50:20.250 --> 00:50:23.650 soldier side, Rich, certainly has touched on. 00:50:23.750 --> 00:50:27.210 But I was super cool with a platform of less 00:50:27.210 --> 00:50:30.130 wars in the Middle East. And if you're going 00:50:30.130 --> 00:50:35.550 to do it, it needs to be fast. and decisive. 00:50:35.730 --> 00:50:39.329 And I like, what is this? You know, what is this? 00:50:42.010 --> 00:50:45.070 One of my guests who I forget exactly who it 00:50:45.070 --> 00:50:49.449 was, it was Dan Bornfield, maybe. Anyway, it 00:50:49.449 --> 00:50:50.889 was someone that was attached to the military. 00:50:50.949 --> 00:50:53.929 And they made such an astute point. They said, 00:50:53.929 --> 00:50:56.789 you got to remember that America is supposed 00:50:56.789 --> 00:51:00.440 to be the poster child for democracy. And if 00:51:00.440 --> 00:51:02.519 you're on the outside looking in, and again, 00:51:02.679 --> 00:51:04.539 what I'm about to allude to, obviously, is some 00:51:04.539 --> 00:51:06.940 of the things that are wrong. Obviously, it's 00:51:06.940 --> 00:51:09.039 not the entire picture. It's a beautiful country. 00:51:09.099 --> 00:51:10.780 It's why I live here and why I wore the flag 00:51:10.780 --> 00:51:13.139 on my shoulder. But if you're on the outside 00:51:13.139 --> 00:51:16.719 looking in and you see 75 % of

the country is 00:51:16.719 --> 00:51:19.760 obese or overweight, 100 ,000 people die of overdose 00:51:19.760 --> 00:51:22.099 every year, not to mention how many we lose to 00:51:22.099 --> 00:51:24.380 suicide, that our children have to rehearse their 00:51:24.380 --> 00:51:28.260 murders in schools. His point was, we should 00:51:28.260 --> 00:51:30.829 be fixing... Our areas, we should getting our 00:51:30.829 --> 00:51:32.610 homeless, you know, especially our homeless veterans 00:51:32.610 --> 00:51:34.389 off the streets. We should be taking care of 00:51:34.389 --> 00:51:36.909 our people and having the humility to ask countries 00:51:36.909 --> 00:51:39.070 around the world that have found great solutions 00:51:39.070 --> 00:51:42.190 to addiction, you know, education, all these 00:51:42.190 --> 00:51:44.050 other areas and saying, how are you doing this? 00:51:44.349 --> 00:51:47.550 That's amazing. Can we use that too? And therefore, 00:51:47.610 --> 00:51:49.909 then you become a beacon of light and democracy 00:51:49.909 --> 00:51:54.230 sells itself versus the Team America World Police 00:51:54.230 --> 00:51:56.429 model where you're running around grabbing everyone 00:51:56.429 --> 00:51:59.469 by the throat and saying you will you will. believe 00:51:59.469 --> 00:52:01.090 in democracy. And I think it's a really good 00:52:01.090 --> 00:52:04.210 point. That then really motivates you to look 00:52:04.210 --> 00:52:07.170 inward, improve the things that aren't doing 00:52:07.170 --> 00:52:10.489 so well in our country. And then from the outside 00:52:10.489 --> 00:52:11.989 looking in, people go, you know what, it does 00:52:11.989 --> 00:52:14.409 seem like a pretty good model. But how can we 00:52:14.409 --> 00:52:16.710 run around beating our chests about democracy 00:52:16.710 --> 00:52:20.530 when there are very, very glaring issues at the 00:52:20.530 --> 00:52:23.469 moment that we have to address within our boundaries? 00:52:23.530 --> 00:52:25.829 And again, the money that we're spending on some 00:52:25.829 --> 00:52:29.349 of these wars could literally... be used to fix 00:52:29.349 --> 00:52:30.750 these i mean you said it would be a long -term 00:52:30.750 --> 00:52:33.269 solution for food in the school all it takes 00:52:33.269 --> 00:52:35.929 is a click of a finger and you could subsidize 00:52:35.929 --> 00:52:37.670 and it wouldn't be that much more to put real 00:52:37.670 --> 00:52:39.590 food back in schools you know i mean to bolster 00:52:39.590 --> 00:52:42.909 pe programs so um i think it's just a really 00:52:42.909 --> 00:52:45.889 good way of looking at it rather than team america 00:52:45.889 --> 00:52:50.090 world police be a beacon of light for other people 00:52:50.090 --> 00:52:54.369 maybe in in countries that might be yearning 00:52:54.369 --> 00:52:58.449 for a different um system of government And then 00:52:58.449 --> 00:52:59.889 they're like, well, that's working really well 00:52:59.889 --> 00:53:01.909 over there. And again, I think Scandinavia and 00:53:01.909 --> 00:53:03.829 Portugal and some of these other areas are doing 00:53:03.829 --> 00:53:09.150 exactly that. I can separate these out, though, 00:53:09.170 --> 00:53:11.750 because, you know, we've, Emma and I have talked 00:53:11.750 --> 00:53:13.769 a lot about this. I mean, it's the 250th anniversary 00:53:13.769 --> 00:53:17.969 of America, and democracy is really messy. So 00:53:17.969 --> 00:53:21.889 I'm not prepared to say, like, we are a beacon 00:53:21.889 --> 00:53:25.329 of democracy. I mean, there is a peaceful transfer 00:53:25.329 --> 00:53:28.159 of power. There is, you know, there are elections. 00:53:28.360 --> 00:53:31.559 There are term limits. The people are empowered 00:53:31.559 --> 00:53:35.300 to go and vote to change things. It's just these 00:53:35.300 --> 00:53:38.400 things don't happen fast enough. I am one of 00:53:38.400 --> 00:53:41.840 the least patient people on the planet. I struggle 00:53:41.840 --> 00:53:45.360 with this every second of every day. And for, 00:53:45.380 --> 00:53:51.079 you know, America, ourselves, I mean, change 00:53:51.079 --> 00:53:54.530 is happening. And sometimes, look. You have to 00:53:54.530 --> 00:53:58.650 go through certain eras that produce additional 00:53:58.650 --> 00:54:03.070 change. And it's only because it's not just middle 00:54:03.070 --> 00:54:05.909 of the road. Hey, everything's kind of fine. 00:54:06.050 --> 00:54:08.309 But if something gets really bad and the kids 00:54:08.309 --> 00:54:11.130 are in the streets, like that's America. That's 00:54:11.130 --> 00:54:13.570 messy and it's democracy. Kids, go get your posters 00:54:13.570 --> 00:54:15.949 and get in the streets. If it's worth fighting 00:54:15.949 --> 00:54:19.269 for like that, then do it. We want to see passionate. 00:54:19.800 --> 00:54:22.380 people in America about the issues. And sometimes 00:54:22.380 --> 00:54:25.079 it takes - And to vote. Yeah, to vote. I mean, 00:54:25.119 --> 00:54:27.940 voter turnout has been abysmal over the years. 00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:30.219 And now it's like, you can't guarantee, if you 00:54:30.219 --> 00:54:33.219 don't go out and think it matters and participate 00:54:33.219 --> 00:54:36.159 in our democracy, you're not going to get the 00:54:36.159 --> 00:54:39.099 results that you are hoping for. You still might 00:54:39.099 --> 00:54:41.139 not get the results. But like, look, it's not 00:54:41.139 --> 00:54:44.579 about you. This is a, you know, a multi -generational 00:54:44.579 --> 00:54:47.340 thing. And we might not see the fruits of our 00:54:47.949 --> 00:54:50.130 our labor on the causes that we believe in but 00:54:50.130 --> 00:54:51.409 that doesn't mean that we don't believe in them 00:54:51.409 --> 00:54:54.170 and they're worth fighting for at any age and 00:54:54.170 --> 00:54:56.949 so we are a beacon it's just democracy is really 00:54:56.949 --> 00:55:01.070 messy do

you think the uh the way that we choose 00:55:01.070 --> 00:55:03.570 presidents is how it was originally thought though 00:55:03.570 --> 00:55:06.550 knowing how many millions sometimes billions 00:55:06.550 --> 00:55:08.530 of dollars are spent to make sure that a certain 00:55:08.530 --> 00:55:11.159 individual gets in Is that truly democracy still? 00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:14.340 I mean, look, democracy is really messy. And 00:55:14.340 --> 00:55:17.159 I don't want to go to sort of founders of the 00:55:17.159 --> 00:55:20.539 country's intent and slice and dice the electoral 00:55:20.539 --> 00:55:23.179 college and all of this stuff. I mean, I don't 00:55:23.179 --> 00:55:25.699 think that getting better at gerrymandering is 00:55:25.699 --> 00:55:30.059 necessarily the best use of our time. However, 00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:34.599 I mean, you do see. wholesale changes that happen 00:55:34.599 --> 00:55:37.539 based upon voting. And you still see this. And 00:55:37.539 --> 00:55:40.880 so that's a positive and productive sign. It 00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:43.659 just, if you're on the side that doesn't like 00:55:43.659 --> 00:55:46.360 this or you do like it, I mean, you know, it's 00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:49.659 all kind of subject to change in the next election. 00:55:49.800 --> 00:55:51.880 And that's how it's supposed to be. We're going 00:55:51.880 --> 00:55:54.820 to have to keep working to get more, even more 00:55:54.820 --> 00:55:58.420 term limits for certain, you know, roles in our 00:55:58.420 --> 00:56:02.190 government. for you know limiting these packs 00:56:02.190 --> 00:56:05.030 and the money that's going into it because i 00:56:05.030 --> 00:56:07.650 i think that is a problem it's it's an imperfect 00:56:07.650 --> 00:56:12.150 system but um it's the one we have right now 00:56:12.150 --> 00:56:15.329 and the thing is that it can be changed but it 00:56:15.329 --> 00:56:20.750 takes a lot of work to make those changes rich 00:56:20.750 --> 00:56:23.050 what about you because i would imagine again 00:56:23.050 --> 00:56:25.289 when you were a young man there was probably 00:56:25.289 --> 00:56:28.110 maybe i'm completely deluded in this but it was 00:56:28.110 --> 00:56:32.539 probably less from millionaires and billionaires? 00:56:32.599 --> 00:56:35.039 Because, I mean, to me, in this current system, 00:56:35.420 --> 00:56:39.179 you have... Say again? There were very few of 00:56:39.179 --> 00:56:44.940 them back then. To me, at the moment, if you 00:56:44.940 --> 00:56:47.840 really want to succeed in our system at the moment, 00:56:47.860 --> 00:56:50.380 you have to be a million or billionaire and you 00:56:50.380 --> 00:56:51.920 really have to have no ethics because you're 00:56:51.920 --> 00:56:54.079 taking money from the industrial military complex 00:56:54.079 --> 00:56:56.639 and the drug companies and all these bad actors 00:56:56.639 --> 00:56:58.500 that we've just labeled earlier in this conversation. 00:56:58.840 --> 00:57:01.719 So therefore, the best leaders that all three 00:57:01.719 --> 00:57:04.119 of us, I'm sure, could think of 20 that would 00:57:04.119 --> 00:57:06.340 be phenomenal in the position, you know, commander 00:57:06.340 --> 00:57:10.159 in chief. aren't able to or aren't willing to 00:57:10.159 --> 00:57:12.159 go through that process, which I don't think 00:57:12.159 --> 00:57:14.480 is... It shows that there is definitely need 00:57:14.480 --> 00:57:19.539 for reform then for that quest to find the nation's 00:57:19.539 --> 00:57:22.460 best leaders. But you obviously, again, have 00:57:22.460 --> 00:57:27.300 several decades of perspective. So was it the 00:57:27.300 --> 00:57:30.619 same... Decades back, and again, if not, what 00:57:30.619 --> 00:57:33.119 have you seen as far as changes and what needs 00:57:33.119 --> 00:57:34.880 to change? If you're king for a day, how can 00:57:34.880 --> 00:57:37.280 we get it back so we truly can start finding 00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:41.960 some great leaders that, to me, if you've got 00:57:41.960 --> 00:57:45.900 leader one and leader B in an election, you're 00:57:45.900 --> 00:57:50.139 for leader B. Leader B wins. And I'm like, well, 00:57:50.199 --> 00:57:51.780 you know what? Leader B is still pretty good. 00:57:51.860 --> 00:57:53.639 That's not what we've got at the moment. It's 00:57:53.639 --> 00:57:56.929 black and white. If mine doesn't win, then, you 00:57:56.929 --> 00:57:58.730 know, the election was rigged and they're the 00:57:58.730 --> 00:58:01.409 worst person ever. If you've got two great leaders, 00:58:01.650 --> 00:58:03.949 there shouldn't be that much between the two 00:58:03.949 --> 00:58:05.650 of them and everyone should pretty much be happy 00:58:05.650 --> 00:58:08.769 regardless. So what is your, sorry, that was 00:58:08.769 --> 00:58:11.130 a huge, huge monologue before the question. What 00:58:11.130 --> 00:58:14.130 is your perspective on the leadership and the 00:58:14.130 --> 00:58:16.030 presence that you've seen throughout the years? 00:58:16.429 --> 00:58:18.309 And, you know, what do you think, if anything, 00:58:18.469 --> 00:58:21.789 we need to change to get to a higher level of 00:58:21.789 --> 00:58:24.289 this election? Well, I'll go back and play the 00:58:24.289 --> 00:58:29.130 same story again. And that is, I think we have 00:58:29.130 --> 00:58:36.829 allowed the culture that surrounds politics to 00:58:36.829 --> 00:58:42.449 change completely. And by that, what I mean is 00:58:42.449 --> 00:58:45.750 we now have politicians, we don't have statesmen. 00:58:46.170 --> 00:58:49.230 The intent of this country was to bring people 00:58:49.230 --> 00:58:55.960 together that would have lively and energetic 00:58:55.960 --> 00:59:00.760 discourses with each other, disagreements completely. 00:59:01.239 --> 00:59:05.619 And yet they would talk through and finally come 00:59:05.619 --> 00:59:10.119 to a conclusion. The first thing

that pops to 00:59:10.119 --> 00:59:14.519 my mind was Ronald Reagan and Tip O 'Neill, absolutely 00:59:14.519 --> 00:59:20.360 polar opposites. And yet when they were president 00:59:20.360 --> 00:59:24.059 and leader of the Senate, they would come together 00:59:24.059 --> 00:59:27.920 and learn to compromise with each other for the 00:59:27.920 --> 00:59:31.659 good of the nation. Now, I see politicians that 00:59:31.659 --> 00:59:34.880 don't care about the good of the nation. Don't 00:59:34.880 --> 00:59:37.179 get me wrong. There are good ones out there. 00:59:38.119 --> 00:59:42.559 Unfortunately, our system takes young men and 00:59:42.559 --> 00:59:45.420 women out of their states, their representatives 00:59:45.420 --> 00:59:48.460 or their senators or whatever that might be, 00:59:48.619 --> 00:59:51.920 and they elect them to go to Washington. to look 00:59:51.920 --> 00:59:56.739 out for their district, their constituents. And 00:59:56.739 --> 01:00:01.679 they go and they have all good faith to do just 01:00:01.679 --> 01:00:05.340 what they're supposed to do, to help their constituents 01:00:05.340 --> 01:00:14.400 live a better life. Well, as a very simple, they 01:00:14.400 --> 01:00:17.920 need a bridge. The constituents need a bridge 01:00:17.920 --> 01:00:21.639 to go to work. So the young man or woman goes 01:00:21.639 --> 01:00:27.320 into Congress and starts pushing for this. And 01:00:27.320 --> 01:00:29.599 some of the old fellows that are already there, 01:00:29.639 --> 01:00:31.840 that have been there for 100 years, probably 01:00:31.840 --> 01:00:37.139 98 years too long, have taken them under their 01:00:37.139 --> 01:00:41.179 wing and said, I'm going to help you get that 01:00:41.179 --> 01:00:44.260 bridge for your constituents. But I want you 01:00:44.260 --> 01:00:48.679 to remember that you owe me. Well, that person 01:00:48.679 --> 01:00:51.380 has just prostituted themselves to the system. 01:00:52.599 --> 01:00:58.320 And that is not good. Now, if you can convince 01:00:58.320 --> 01:01:03.039 me that, yes, for the good of the nation, that 01:01:03.039 --> 01:01:08.119 bridge needs to exist, okay. But that isn't what 01:01:08.119 --> 01:01:10.280 it's all about. So I see this culture changing, 01:01:10.460 --> 01:01:15.639 these people. Those that were running for office 01:01:15.639 --> 01:01:20.900 used to actually go home and talk to the people, 01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:26.679 not by television, not by Zoom, face to face. 01:01:27.059 --> 01:01:31.500 They would have what we now call town hall meetings. 01:01:32.199 --> 01:01:36.679 And those representatives that wanted to go and 01:01:36.679 --> 01:01:41.039 be a leader were talking directly to their constituents 01:01:41.039 --> 01:01:45.070 face to face. I'll be honest with you, that's 01:01:45.070 --> 01:01:46.889 one of the hardest conversations you'll ever 01:01:46.889 --> 01:01:49.909 have with somebody face to face. It's easy to 01:01:49.909 --> 01:01:52.389 get on Instagram. It's easy to get on Facebook 01:01:52.389 --> 01:01:54.849 and make all kinds of claims and statements and 01:01:54.849 --> 01:01:57.969 comments that you don't have to be responsible 01:01:57.969 --> 01:02:00.130 for because you don't even have to sign your 01:02:00.130 --> 01:02:05.309 name to them. And so that has changed that entire 01:02:05.309 --> 01:02:10.429 political landscape. Now it's more about social 01:02:10.429 --> 01:02:15.190 media. and theater than it is about running a 01:02:15.190 --> 01:02:19.949 government. And that is a concern of mine. Who 01:02:19.949 --> 01:02:22.530 were the first two candidates that you were able 01:02:22.530 --> 01:02:30.369 to vote for? Gosh, I did it in, I actually voted 01:02:30.369 --> 01:02:37.590 in Vietnam. Don't hear that every day. Do you 01:02:37.590 --> 01:02:40.329 remember who were the candidates? I think it 01:02:40.329 --> 01:02:48.980 was Nixon. Against. Oh, I can picture him. I 01:02:48.980 --> 01:02:52.219 picture him. If you hadn't asked me, I think 01:02:52.219 --> 01:02:54.800 it was McGovern. Yeah, I think it was McGovern. 01:02:55.179 --> 01:03:00.059 I mean, look, I get it. You know, it's there's 01:03:00.059 --> 01:03:04.219 fewer statesmen now. And, you know, if more people 01:03:04.219 --> 01:03:07.420 want that, then more people can demand that. 01:03:08.259 --> 01:03:11.719 And, you know, if the charade has run its course, 01:03:11.880 --> 01:03:13.760 then maybe the charade will run its course. And 01:03:13.760 --> 01:03:16.059 it's just a matter of time. You know, the early 01:03:16.059 --> 01:03:18.019 statesmen used to get their pistols and meet 01:03:18.019 --> 01:03:20.940 at certain times and kill each other. So, you 01:03:20.940 --> 01:03:23.880 know, like the statesmen, like the standards 01:03:23.880 --> 01:03:26.239 of what it means to be a statesman. And everybody 01:03:26.239 --> 01:03:31.440 thinks the founding fathers are wonderful statesmen. 01:03:31.460 --> 01:03:34.480 And they are. And God bless them for what they've 01:03:34.480 --> 01:03:36.639 done for our country. But they they shed their 01:03:36.639 --> 01:03:39.760 own blood against each other. I mean, it wasn't 01:03:39.760 --> 01:03:41.900 just Tip O 'Neill and Ronald Reagan drinking 01:03:41.900 --> 01:03:44.000 at five o 'clock because, you know, business 01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:46.300 was over, which is how the world goes round. 01:03:46.440 --> 01:03:48.119 Right. I mean, you got to go meet the warlord 01:03:48.119 --> 01:03:51.320 and talk to him, like do that. Right. But I mean, 01:03:51.340 --> 01:03:55.340 it's messy, man. It's messy. James, I heard something 01:03:55.340 --> 01:03:58.239 that was actually really uplifting the other 01:03:58.239 --> 01:04:02.659 day. It was David Brooks came to town. And he 01:04:02.659 --> 01:04:05.960 was addressing all these cultural issues because 01:04:05.960 --> 01:04:09.480 that's what he's done for his whole career

is 01:04:09.480 --> 01:04:13.380 write about these types of things. And he cited 01:04:13.380 --> 01:04:22.559 Samuel Huntington, a history professor, who basically 01:04:22.559 --> 01:04:26.039 said that there's been a pattern in U .S. history 01:04:26.039 --> 01:04:31.650 for Every 60 years, we get this burn it all down 01:04:31.650 --> 01:04:35.489 kind of mentality and things just, it all goes 01:04:35.489 --> 01:04:39.369 to hell in the handbasket. But out of that, that 01:04:39.369 --> 01:04:46.210 cycle is, you know, this renaissance, which is 01:04:46.210 --> 01:04:49.510 cultural, where it's kind of where it starts, 01:04:49.530 --> 01:04:51.829 and then it moves to political, and then you 01:04:51.829 --> 01:04:55.639 get the actual change. the what you're trying 01:04:55.639 --> 01:05:00.559 to fix you know and and so it it was a it's a 01:05:00.559 --> 01:05:03.159 perspective that because i i think we're there 01:05:03.159 --> 01:05:07.800 we're the the the 2020s is 60 years from the 01:05:07.800 --> 01:05:11.360 1960s when we also had a major period of upheaval 01:05:11.360 --> 01:05:15.059 and prior to that you know just keep going and 01:05:15.059 --> 01:05:18.840 it was like you know andrew jackson's time was 01:05:19.179 --> 01:05:22.380 Terrible, you know, terrible times in the U .S. 01:05:22.380 --> 01:05:24.639 And then you had industrial, you know, the Civil 01:05:24.639 --> 01:05:28.199 War and then, you know, all these things that 01:05:28.199 --> 01:05:32.980 moments in time. Maybe it's all just like human 01:05:32.980 --> 01:05:35.820 nature, you know, when it comes down to it. And 01:05:35.820 --> 01:05:39.539 at least it's made me hopeful that there's repair 01:05:39.539 --> 01:05:43.139 happening from these ruptures. Find something 01:05:43.139 --> 01:05:45.079 that you believe in and fight for it, man. Get 01:05:45.079 --> 01:05:47.800 the get the. thing in the street, the sign and 01:05:47.800 --> 01:05:54.480 go hit the streets, you know, go do it. With 01:05:54.480 --> 01:05:56.199 that being said, well, firstly, when you talked 01:05:56.199 --> 01:05:58.099 about coming to blows, there is an octagon being 01:05:58.099 --> 01:06:00.360 built on the White House lawn. So hopefully we'll 01:06:00.360 --> 01:06:02.400 see some congressmen and presidents get in there 01:06:02.400 --> 01:06:09.820 and walk in the walk. I would like that. Jake 01:06:09.820 --> 01:06:13.340 Paul up there. But no, joking apart, and again, 01:06:13.460 --> 01:06:15.119 this factors in with what Rich was saying, and 01:06:15.119 --> 01:06:17.199 literally you just end capped it, Jason, with 01:06:17.199 --> 01:06:20.699 your statement. What should protests look like? 01:06:21.059 --> 01:06:23.960 Because I'm an incurable yet extremely angry 01:06:23.960 --> 01:06:27.280 optimist, and I truly believe that there is the 01:06:27.280 --> 01:06:29.599 beginning of a renaissance of kindness and compassion 01:06:29.599 --> 01:06:32.099 and community. I really do, which is why I do 01:06:32.099 --> 01:06:34.920 what I do now. But that doesn't mean that you 01:06:34.920 --> 01:06:39.320 don't have to... dip your knuckles in broken 01:06:39.320 --> 01:06:41.659 glass and start throwing punches because there 01:06:41.659 --> 01:06:44.460 are a lot of, you know, people that are not interested 01:06:44.460 --> 01:06:47.019 in kindness and community and service. They're 01:06:47.019 --> 01:06:49.099 interested in, you know, self -serving and profit 01:06:49.099 --> 01:06:54.000 and power. So protest has been used as a powerful 01:06:54.000 --> 01:06:57.159 tool. And I know Rich and I talked about how, 01:06:57.179 --> 01:06:59.199 you know, that was a very negative experience 01:06:59.199 --> 01:07:01.840 for a lot of our Vietnam era, you know, coming 01:07:01.840 --> 01:07:05.039 home and the moral injury and the organizational 01:07:05.039 --> 01:07:08.190 betrayal that came from some of that. But protests 01:07:08.190 --> 01:07:10.070 can also be a very powerful thing, and we've 01:07:10.070 --> 01:07:12.590 seen it around the world. But it can also be 01:07:12.590 --> 01:07:18.090 virtue signaling. It can be people from the opposition 01:07:18.090 --> 01:07:21.329 pretending to protest, causing trouble. So there's 01:07:21.329 --> 01:07:24.130 ways of manipulating that, too. So I'll start 01:07:24.130 --> 01:07:27.670 with you, Jake. How do we protest? I don't know. 01:07:28.590 --> 01:07:33.550 Be kind. Invite somebody for a conversation. 01:07:33.829 --> 01:07:36.469 Live a good life. Think for yourself and critically. 01:07:37.389 --> 01:07:39.889 Ask the hard questions about how you want to 01:07:39.889 --> 01:07:44.050 live. I think it's actually, you know, who was 01:07:44.050 --> 01:07:48.190 it they said all politics are local? Tip O 'Neill. 01:07:48.289 --> 01:07:51.409 Tip O 'Neill. I had to fact check myself. I know, 01:07:51.429 --> 01:07:54.550 I was like, I think it's Tip O 'Neill. But I've 01:07:54.550 --> 01:07:59.150 gotten a lot more involved in our local politics. 01:08:00.110 --> 01:08:03.170 over the, you know, since the pandemic. And I 01:08:03.170 --> 01:08:05.010 think some of that where I was, I was talking 01:08:05.010 --> 01:08:06.789 to my neighbor the other day and we're like, 01:08:06.869 --> 01:08:09.650 gosh, 10 years ago, I didn't even think about 01:08:09.650 --> 01:08:12.269 this. I wasn't it, but now we're invested, you 01:08:12.269 --> 01:08:14.730 know, we care about this community and we want 01:08:14.730 --> 01:08:19.470 to make sure that, you know, those ideals, you 01:08:19.470 --> 01:08:21.710 know, are represented and that we hold on to, 01:08:21.810 --> 01:08:24.149 you know, the things that brought us here originally. 01:08:24.210 --> 01:08:27.510 And I think, I think that's the, I think that's 01:08:27.510 --> 01:08:29.989 the kernel. I think that's where you start. It's 01:08:29.989 --> 01:08:32.689 like, you know, Voltaire, it's like

tend to your 01:08:32.689 --> 01:08:35.970 own garden. And, you know, where we live is our 01:08:35.970 --> 01:08:40.569 garden. And if you multiply that across a nation, 01:08:40.649 --> 01:08:47.390 then you will get progress in a good way. But, 01:08:47.390 --> 01:08:52.369 you know, I think a lot, we think, I think every 01:08:52.369 --> 01:08:54.869 generation thinks it's just getting worse, you 01:08:54.869 --> 01:08:57.590 know, and it's so negative. But I think we've... 01:08:57.869 --> 01:09:00.449 Humans have suffered from that mentality for 01:09:00.449 --> 01:09:03.609 the beginning of time. You know, it's like it 01:09:03.609 --> 01:09:07.170 does feel like it can be bad at times. But then, 01:09:07.189 --> 01:09:10.289 you know, there are things that are positive. 01:09:11.710 --> 01:09:15.090 And if you stay closer to home on those issues, 01:09:15.250 --> 01:09:19.189 I think you'll get to see them better. Closer 01:09:19.189 --> 01:09:24.649 to home. That goes back to good individuals build 01:09:24.649 --> 01:09:28.220 good communities, build good nations. And so 01:09:28.220 --> 01:09:32.039 it starts with that one individual. Yeah. Like, 01:09:32.039 --> 01:09:34.659 I mean, I guess this is just to reframe all of 01:09:34.659 --> 01:09:37.220 this. I mean, there's a lot of really important 01:09:37.220 --> 01:09:40.619 topics that are, there is progress being made. 01:09:40.739 --> 01:09:43.119 It's just hard to see when you get really close 01:09:43.119 --> 01:09:45.680 to it. It seems like it's terrible. I mean, take 01:09:45.680 --> 01:09:48.579 Iran, for instance, there's actually not 200 01:09:48.579 --> 01:09:51.699 ,000 boots on the ground. That's good, right? 01:09:51.920 --> 01:09:55.680 I mean, take health and stuff. There's so much 01:09:55.680 --> 01:09:59.649 more. that we can do for human health. And I 01:09:59.649 --> 01:10:02.449 want to see that democratized more and let's 01:10:02.449 --> 01:10:04.750 fight for that. But you know, those are really, 01:10:04.949 --> 01:10:08.659 really. geopolitical things that we we don't 01:10:08.659 --> 01:10:11.699 have a lot of control over. And much to what 01:10:11.699 --> 01:10:14.039 I'm saying is, you know, I coach three and a 01:10:14.039 --> 01:10:16.880 half kids baseball teams now. And, you know, 01:10:16.899 --> 01:10:20.180 I'm fighting for things like protein shakes at 01:10:20.180 --> 01:10:24.939 the concession stand and a more level outfield 01:10:24.939 --> 01:10:28.420 so that nets that will protect the nets that 01:10:28.420 --> 01:10:31.199 don't, you know, fly into me or the foul balls 01:10:31.199 --> 01:10:35.479 don't go. out to the side so that it's just a 01:10:35.479 --> 01:10:37.800 better experience where you have this community 01:10:37.800 --> 01:10:40.000 hub, because that's what the ballpark is for 01:10:40.000 --> 01:10:42.399 us in our little beach town here in Florida, 01:10:42.539 --> 01:10:47.180 America, where we are so happy to be living. 01:10:47.600 --> 01:10:50.880 And, you know, that stuff matters to us at a 01:10:50.880 --> 01:10:54.939 very deep and daily. And I think that throughout 01:10:54.939 --> 01:10:59.020 the millennia, to go back as far back as you 01:10:59.020 --> 01:11:01.420 can, we were meant to be important to a very 01:11:01.420 --> 01:11:04.760 few number of people inside of our family and 01:11:04.760 --> 01:11:07.319 to our tribes. And the more that you look out 01:11:07.319 --> 01:11:09.760 and talk about the world that's burning a million 01:11:09.760 --> 01:11:13.140 miles away, it's just it's so toxic to how you 01:11:13.140 --> 01:11:15.340 see the world right here that you do actually 01:11:15.340 --> 01:11:19.029 have. The ability to influence you can actually 01:11:19.029 --> 01:11:22.050 take this life force of yours and you can bend 01:11:22.050 --> 01:11:24.770 the universe To your will and your vision for 01:11:24.770 --> 01:11:27.569 good you can get other people involved if you 01:11:27.569 --> 01:11:31.600 keep that outlook. It's just it's a lot easier 01:11:31.600 --> 01:11:34.899 in a good way to do this closer to home. And 01:11:34.899 --> 01:11:37.340 it's very, very rewarding. And I say that as 01:11:37.340 --> 01:11:40.180 someone who also we have a business where we 01:11:40.180 --> 01:11:41.880 say, let's make rucking bigger than running. 01:11:41.979 --> 01:11:45.439 And so there's not a lack of kind of a desire 01:11:45.439 --> 01:11:48.420 to impact, say, fitness and health at a global 01:11:48.420 --> 01:11:51.369 scale. And I get. caught up against well how 01:11:51.369 --> 01:11:53.670 much of an impact are we making and is it enough 01:11:53.670 --> 01:11:56.930 and it's never enough but let me go back to what 01:11:56.930 --> 01:11:59.550 we're selling at the concession stand at the 01:11:59.550 --> 01:12:03.810 ballpark and the holes in the outfield and let 01:12:03.810 --> 01:12:06.850 me let me make sure more importantly that these 01:12:06.850 --> 01:12:09.810 these boys who will become young men who will 01:12:09.810 --> 01:12:13.630 become men who will become the next generational 01:12:13.630 --> 01:12:15.829 the teams are basically all boys there's a couple 01:12:15.829 --> 01:12:19.720 girls so no disrespect there but Like, let's 01:12:19.720 --> 01:12:21.119 make them a little tougher. Let's make sure they 01:12:21.119 --> 01:12:24.140 know how to slide. Let's make like hard and want 01:12:24.140 --> 01:12:27.140 to slide. Let's make sure that they're capable 01:12:27.140 --> 01:12:30.500 and confident inside the batter's box when someone's 01:12:30.500 --> 01:12:32.140 throwing that five inch ball that might come 01:12:32.140 --> 01:12:35.000 at their head, right? Learning how to stand in 01:12:35.000 --> 01:12:37.119 there calm and collected and hit a baseball. 01:12:37.640 --> 01:12:40.899 There's so many life lessons in that. And, you 01:12:40.899 --> 01:12:43.199 know, I didn't grow up playing baseball.

I didn't 01:12:43.199 --> 01:12:45.600 become a baseball coach. like i didn't have this 01:12:45.600 --> 01:12:48.539 big goal but it turns out that these universal 01:12:48.539 --> 01:12:50.960 lessons that rich and i end up talking a lot 01:12:50.960 --> 01:12:53.779 about how it's passed down from generation to 01:12:53.779 --> 01:12:56.460 generation like you just pay that forward close 01:12:56.460 --> 01:13:01.619 to home and amazing things happen i love that 01:13:01.619 --> 01:13:03.319 phrase you want to change the world start at 01:13:03.319 --> 01:13:06.060 home and this is exactly it i mean this is what 01:13:06.060 --> 01:13:07.640 you guys are doing your own home is what i do 01:13:07.640 --> 01:13:10.359 in my own home i think acknowledging i think 01:13:10.359 --> 01:13:15.079 this is exciting being a gen x is We get to have 01:13:15.079 --> 01:13:17.600 one foot on either side of the mental health 01:13:17.600 --> 01:13:20.180 conversation. You know, we grew up being told 01:13:20.180 --> 01:13:22.220 it was weakness, shut up, rub some dirt in it. 01:13:22.300 --> 01:13:24.659 And then, you know, through my career, losing 01:13:24.659 --> 01:13:26.659 lots of firefighters, we had this realization, 01:13:26.920 --> 01:13:29.380 oh, this is a real thing. And soldiers and firefighters 01:13:29.380 --> 01:13:31.939 and cops are struggling and, you know, there's 01:13:31.939 --> 01:13:34.039 suicide and there's overdose. And so now this 01:13:34.039 --> 01:13:37.470 was something that morphed into. conversation 01:13:37.470 --> 01:13:40.029 about what masculinity really is. And it involves 01:13:40.029 --> 01:13:42.350 being courageously vulnerable, as well as obviously 01:13:42.350 --> 01:13:46.229 having to be in a certain warrior mindset when 01:13:46.229 --> 01:13:48.010 you're fighting a fire or going into a firefight. 01:13:48.689 --> 01:13:50.729 And then you've got this next generation, our 01:13:50.729 --> 01:13:52.729 children are growing up where this conversation 01:13:52.729 --> 01:13:56.350 is already being had. So I find it very exciting 01:13:56.350 --> 01:13:58.470 because we're stopping these generational trauma 01:13:58.470 --> 01:14:00.529 dominoes from falling on our children as well. 01:14:00.909 --> 01:14:03.130 And I think that is also going to help with community 01:14:03.130 --> 01:14:05.890 and kindness and service and all these other 01:14:05.890 --> 01:14:08.890 areas. But then it's also, as you said, it takes 01:14:08.890 --> 01:14:11.430 a village mentality. And we've become so macro 01:14:11.430 --> 01:14:14.550 through these devices that we've forgotten that 01:14:14.550 --> 01:14:17.550 once you've got your house intact, hopefully, 01:14:17.829 --> 01:14:19.909 then you step outside your front door and you 01:14:19.909 --> 01:14:21.869 look around and go, how can I benefit my community? 01:14:22.300 --> 01:14:23.779 whether I'm going to coach, whether I'm going 01:14:23.779 --> 01:14:26.819 to, you know, do a fire mentorship program, whether 01:14:26.819 --> 01:14:28.819 it was in Rich's case, I'm going to try and help 01:14:28.819 --> 01:14:31.079 people transitioning out the military to get 01:14:31.079 --> 01:14:33.539 their education. And that's the next step. And 01:14:33.539 --> 01:14:36.220 if all of us do that, we don't need to look macro 01:14:36.220 --> 01:14:38.960 because by osmosis, everything will start improving. 01:14:39.180 --> 01:14:42.359 Yeah. That's hard though. It's hard. It's hard 01:14:42.359 --> 01:14:45.609 because it's raining down on you. That's your 01:14:45.609 --> 01:14:47.949 challenge. It is. That's your challenge. There's 01:14:47.949 --> 01:14:49.970 always good, you can always pull out good stuff. 01:14:50.050 --> 01:14:52.890 I mean, look, you've seen Star Wars, right? You 01:14:52.890 --> 01:14:55.590 know? Yeah? Yeah. Okay. You know the part where 01:14:55.590 --> 01:14:57.529 they, well, if you've seen one, you've seen them 01:14:57.529 --> 01:14:59.489 all. Which one? So, you know, when they check 01:14:59.489 --> 01:15:02.670 for the midichlorian inside of the blood and 01:15:02.670 --> 01:15:05.010 sort of, they have these health tests, they walk 01:15:05.010 --> 01:15:07.430 up and they sort of say, okay, well, I know everything 01:15:07.430 --> 01:15:09.489 about you now. That's going to happen. It's just 01:15:09.489 --> 01:15:12.140 not going to happen today. or tomorrow. And people 01:15:12.140 --> 01:15:15.260 were going to know how to become more healthier, 01:15:15.439 --> 01:15:18.720 how to become healthier physically. It's the 01:15:18.720 --> 01:15:22.859 sort of communal side and the tribal side of 01:15:22.859 --> 01:15:26.359 like, how do we also stay healthy and connected 01:15:26.359 --> 01:15:30.779 on that front? And all I feel I owe, and will 01:15:30.779 --> 01:15:34.500 always owe, and I know Em was born like that, 01:15:34.579 --> 01:15:37.529 and I sort of learned it. and so did Rich in 01:15:37.529 --> 01:15:40.130 the Army, is sort of pay it forward to the next 01:15:40.130 --> 01:15:43.270 generation. And you might never see the fruits 01:15:43.270 --> 01:15:46.489 of your labor, and that's okay. That's okay. 01:15:46.710 --> 01:15:49.289 And to make some peace with that and to just 01:15:49.289 --> 01:15:52.689 enjoy the process of that kind of service. You 01:15:52.689 --> 01:15:54.689 don't have to wear a uniform. You don't have 01:15:54.689 --> 01:15:58.409 to wear the flag on your shoulder, sir. And it's 01:15:58.409 --> 01:16:02.779 just... You can just give back like that. And 01:16:02.779 --> 01:16:05.520 it's very rewarding. And I think this whole big 01:16:05.520 --> 01:16:08.760 dream that is America is built upon that. So 01:16:08.760 --> 01:16:11.199 how do we encourage more of that? And ultimately, 01:16:11.300 --> 01:16:13.359 it's like, let's talk about that and keep people 01:16:13.359 --> 01:16:17.439 kind of more optimistic about fighting for what

01:16:17.439 --> 01:16:20.260 they believe in that's closer to home. But, you 01:16:20.260 --> 01:16:22.560 know, James, circling back to something that 01:16:22.560 --> 01:16:25.439 you mentioned earlier, I believe that the biggest 01:16:25.439 --> 01:16:29.789 divide is not. left, right, like we're kind of 01:16:29.789 --> 01:16:32.289 caught into it. I think it's more top bottom. 01:16:32.409 --> 01:16:36.550 You know, I think it's if you look at the economics 01:16:36.550 --> 01:16:42.350 of our our generation, it's that so much wealth 01:16:42.350 --> 01:16:47.090 is now concentrated for a very small few. And 01:16:47.090 --> 01:16:50.920 it's just. These are people who, if you read 01:16:50.920 --> 01:16:53.420 the news, they're in very powerful positions, 01:16:53.739 --> 01:16:57.920 controlling media, controlling algorithms, controlling, 01:16:58.000 --> 01:17:01.039 you know, all these big sort of things. And then 01:17:01.039 --> 01:17:06.119 if you're just the regular person and, you know, 01:17:06.220 --> 01:17:09.399 and you're young and you're susceptible to thinking 01:17:09.399 --> 01:17:12.920 this is reality. I mean, we have the benefit 01:17:12.920 --> 01:17:16.960 of having lived in a different era, you know, 01:17:16.960 --> 01:17:21.829 before. And the after. And we all know here that 01:17:21.829 --> 01:17:27.949 social media is a reflection and an amplifier 01:17:27.949 --> 01:17:33.270 of human nature. It's not the root cause. It's 01:17:33.270 --> 01:17:35.710 not evil in and of itself, but it's amplifying 01:17:35.710 --> 01:17:41.210 our behaviors. But it's important to call that 01:17:41.210 --> 01:17:44.729 out because I think that is one of the bigger... 01:17:45.390 --> 01:17:48.050 threats to all these good things we're talking 01:17:48.050 --> 01:17:53.949 about is if i mean core this kind of level of 01:17:53.949 --> 01:17:57.409 greed and accumulation of wealth and you know 01:17:57.409 --> 01:18:00.489 not being stately about it or you know donate 01:18:00.489 --> 01:18:02.909 you know all these things it's like it's it's 01:18:02.909 --> 01:18:05.770 troublesome it's it's it's it's i think it's 01:18:05.770 --> 01:18:10.829 one of the bigger problems facing humanity rich 01:18:10.829 --> 01:18:14.270 anything to add well i'm gonna go back to to 01:18:14.270 --> 01:18:18.510 something that Emily said. You know, we tend 01:18:18.510 --> 01:18:21.109 to think that life is just getting worse and 01:18:21.109 --> 01:18:23.270 worse and worse. We're seeing more terrible things 01:18:23.270 --> 01:18:26.930 going on. And I think back to when I was a kid 01:18:26.930 --> 01:18:31.029 and I'd be hanging out with my grandfather who 01:18:31.029 --> 01:18:34.630 was, he had started out at two years in a seminary 01:18:34.630 --> 01:18:38.970 to be a minister and then changed his mind for 01:18:38.970 --> 01:18:42.970 his own reasons and became a cowboy. But he was 01:18:42.970 --> 01:18:45.770 pretty well read. I mean,

don't even try to talk 01:18:45.770 --> 01:18:48.729 the Bible to him. He'd shoot you down every time 01:18:48.729 --> 01:18:51.390 because he could quote verse, sentence, whatever. 01:18:52.250 --> 01:18:57.470 But I used to listen to him back in the, well, 01:18:57.590 --> 01:19:03.829 the 50s primarily, the early 50s. And we tend 01:19:03.829 --> 01:19:07.890 to look back on the elder statesman, if you will. 01:19:08.300 --> 01:19:10.899 not back to our founding fathers, but those that 01:19:10.899 --> 01:19:14.520 have gone before. And we tend to honor them. 01:19:14.840 --> 01:19:18.500 And yet I remember him talking about how the 01:19:18.500 --> 01:19:21.880 United States, my grandfather, how the United 01:19:21.880 --> 01:19:25.079 States was going to hell in a handbasket because 01:19:25.079 --> 01:19:27.800 one or two people in Washington didn't agree 01:19:27.800 --> 01:19:30.319 with whatever he agreed with at that point in 01:19:30.319 --> 01:19:34.399 time. And so it's all a matter of perspective. 01:19:35.199 --> 01:19:39.920 from where you sit at any one time. And so while 01:19:39.920 --> 01:19:42.880 I am concerned about the things that I've mentioned 01:19:42.880 --> 01:19:50.359 and a lot of others, I am heartened by a lot 01:19:50.359 --> 01:19:53.539 of what I see at the same time, that there are 01:19:53.539 --> 01:19:56.439 really good people out there that are talking 01:19:56.439 --> 01:20:00.619 about the issues. And as Jason said, the point 01:20:00.619 --> 01:20:03.520 is go out and talk about the issues, bring them 01:20:03.520 --> 01:20:08.359 up. Talk about the protein shakes. Not where 01:20:08.359 --> 01:20:11.140 they're going to get funded, but talk about the 01:20:11.140 --> 01:20:15.359 protein shakes instead of the thousand calorie 01:20:15.359 --> 01:20:18.199 Coca -Colas or whatever they sell these days. 01:20:19.119 --> 01:20:22.659 Bring those issues up. Don't be afraid to have 01:20:22.659 --> 01:20:26.800 those kinds of conversations. My point is, have 01:20:26.800 --> 01:20:30.079 those conversations face to face, in person, 01:20:30.220 --> 01:20:35.369 as much as you possibly can. confront the issues 01:20:35.369 --> 01:20:40.770 that concern you with others and gain new perspectives. 01:20:41.310 --> 01:20:45.090 I've had some pretty solid thoughts at times. 01:20:45.210 --> 01:20:47.250 And then I talked to somebody that's way smarter 01:20:47.250 --> 01:20:52.670 than I am in that area. And maybe I didn't have 01:20:52.670 --> 01:20:56.470 all the facts I needed. So as long as you're 01:20:56.470 --> 01:20:59.750 getting out there doing something, talking to 01:20:59.750 --> 01:21:03.229 other people, communicating in one form or another, 01:21:03.850 --> 01:21:09.130 then I have great faith that America will persevere, 01:21:09.270 --> 01:21:17.710 even though at times idiots lead us. But we as 01:21:17.710 --> 01:21:25.250 a humanity and the beacon of democracy, as bad 01:21:25.250 --> 01:21:29.350 as it is, as nasty as it can be, is better than 01:21:29.350 --> 01:21:32.930 anything I've ever seen. around the rest of the 01:21:32.930 --> 01:21:36.949 world. And worth fighting for, even from within 01:21:36.949 --> 01:21:39.010 the walls. Do we need to clean it up? Hell yes. 01:21:39.890 --> 01:21:46.949 But it's pretty decent. Absolutely. To Emily's 01:21:46.949 --> 01:21:49.170 point, there was another person, this is the 01:21:49.170 --> 01:21:50.609 thing when you have all these conversations, 01:21:50.970 --> 01:21:54.930 I glean so much wisdom, it's amazing. I'm not 01:21:54.930 --> 01:21:56.810 wise, I've just got wisdom stored in my head. 01:21:57.670 --> 01:22:00.029 But they said, if you imagine that you're in 01:22:00.029 --> 01:22:03.260 a medieval village, And you've got the peasants 01:22:03.260 --> 01:22:05.920 arguing with each other about something, you 01:22:05.920 --> 01:22:08.199 know, the price of bread or whatever it is. He 01:22:08.199 --> 01:22:10.319 said, you know, they're at each other's throats. 01:22:10.380 --> 01:22:12.539 He said, where are they not looking? He said, 01:22:12.560 --> 01:22:15.500 the castle. And I thought that was such a perfect 01:22:15.500 --> 01:22:17.939 analogy. That's it. Where we need to be looking 01:22:17.939 --> 01:22:21.300 is not the opposite political party or, you know, 01:22:21.340 --> 01:22:23.939 the opposite religion. I would insert polarizing 01:22:23.939 --> 01:22:27.000 conversation here. It's, you know, who is the 01:22:27.000 --> 01:22:28.899 puppet master? You know, these are two wings 01:22:28.899 --> 01:22:31.800 of the same bird. Where's the damn bird? And 01:22:31.800 --> 01:22:33.619 so I think when you have an awakening of that 01:22:33.619 --> 01:22:35.159 and you realize that, you know, the base of the 01:22:35.159 --> 01:22:38.300 pyramid is the American people, you know, and 01:22:38.300 --> 01:22:40.340 if someone's building statues or arches for themselves, 01:22:40.380 --> 01:22:42.699 maybe that's not the right person to selflessly 01:22:42.699 --> 01:22:45.800 lead a nation. Then, you know, it is up to us 01:22:45.800 --> 01:22:47.899 at the base to realize that we are this nation, 01:22:48.020 --> 01:22:49.960 you know, and there's, you know, all people of 01:22:49.960 --> 01:22:51.739 all walks of life. Some, like you said, have 01:22:51.739 --> 01:22:54.479 served in a number of ways. Some are just beginning 01:22:54.479 --> 01:22:57.159 to maybe realize that community element. But 01:22:57.159 --> 01:22:58.899 yeah, this is, you know, it says we the people. 01:22:59.350 --> 01:23:02.789 At the very beginning for a reason. So I want 01:23:02.789 --> 01:23:04.630 to hit on one more area and then we'll kind of 01:23:04.630 --> 01:23:07.970 open up to some new things that you've got going 01:23:07.970 --> 01:23:09.949 on as far as I want to hit Normandy and a couple 01:23:09.949 --> 01:23:13.649 other things. But just briefly, I had Sebastian

01:23:13.649 --> 01:23:16.829 Junger on a few times now, and he's got a really 01:23:16.829 --> 01:23:18.930 interesting perspective on national service because 01:23:18.930 --> 01:23:22.729 it's not just military, but to have a year serving 01:23:22.729 --> 01:23:25.989 your country in some way, shape or form. I think 01:23:25.989 --> 01:23:28.029 a lot of nations that do that, again, you see. 01:23:28.520 --> 01:23:31.619 a lot of great results, a lot of, you know, patriotism 01:23:31.619 --> 01:23:35.020 versus nationalism. And, you know, I think it 01:23:35.020 --> 01:23:37.420 would be an incredible incentive to bring that 01:23:37.420 --> 01:23:39.439 back. But I think the fear, obviously, is just, 01:23:39.699 --> 01:23:42.500 you know, and rich, obviously, was a big part 01:23:42.500 --> 01:23:44.800 of this. So there's an entire era that attaches 01:23:44.800 --> 01:23:48.000 that to military service and, God forbid, being 01:23:48.000 --> 01:23:49.939 sent to a conflict that maybe we shouldn't be 01:23:49.939 --> 01:23:53.979 sent to. So what is your perspective on, you 01:23:53.979 --> 01:23:57.340 know, a national service year for all? young 01:23:57.340 --> 01:24:00.119 americans and then having that you know not just 01:24:00.119 --> 01:24:02.340 military but but other branches if there's a 01:24:02.340 --> 01:24:03.979 different way that you want to serve your country 01:24:03.979 --> 01:24:09.100 that year i'm i'm all for it i think i think 01:24:09.100 --> 01:24:12.100 it would solve a lot of problems out of the gates 01:24:12.100 --> 01:24:15.199 and then even some that we can't even anticipate 01:24:15.199 --> 01:24:21.460 um i think it And I totally think it would only 01:24:21.460 --> 01:24:24.939 work if you did have other areas outside of the 01:24:24.939 --> 01:24:30.859 armed service, armed forces. I think you could 01:24:30.859 --> 01:24:35.279 incentivize, you know, keep young people out 01:24:35.279 --> 01:24:37.939 of, you know, massive amounts of college debt. 01:24:38.319 --> 01:24:43.079 You know, I think you would broaden horizons 01:24:43.079 --> 01:24:47.100 and, you know, have people. learning from different 01:24:47.100 --> 01:24:51.859 perspectives. And I think you would build a generation 01:24:51.859 --> 01:24:54.920 that is less, you know, navel -gazing and more 01:24:54.920 --> 01:24:58.000 outward -looking, like we're talking about here. 01:24:58.159 --> 01:25:03.779 So all for it. I think it would be amazing. I 01:25:03.779 --> 01:25:06.800 think communities need rituals and things that 01:25:06.800 --> 01:25:10.039 kind of you point towards and you say, we think 01:25:10.039 --> 01:25:12.880 this is important. And so I think it would be 01:25:12.880 --> 01:25:15.220 great. I think it would be also interesting to... 01:25:15.520 --> 01:25:20.199 to think through how you could get businesses 01:25:20.199 --> 01:25:22.979 on board with this. I mean, even starting with 01:25:22.979 --> 01:25:26.399 big, big businesses and say, Hey, in our hiring 01:25:26.399 --> 01:25:29.340 process, we, we only, we look first at the people 01:25:29.340 --> 01:25:31.539 who are willing to serve in some capacity for 01:25:31.539 --> 01:25:36.239 a year and kind of, cause if there's not some 01:25:36.239 --> 01:25:39.180 component to that, I mean, you can try to pass 01:25:39.180 --> 01:25:44.140 a law. I just think you're, it's hard. I think 01:25:44.140 --> 01:25:47.420 you have to incentivize. I don't have political 01:25:47.420 --> 01:25:51.899 aspirations, but I always say if I were president, 01:25:51.979 --> 01:25:58.180 this is one of the first things I would do. The 01:25:58.180 --> 01:26:00.779 one thing that I've learned over the many years 01:26:00.779 --> 01:26:07.079 that I have trod this earth is the most gratifying 01:26:07.079 --> 01:26:13.109 thing that you can do is service to others. whatever 01:26:13.109 --> 01:26:17.510 that might be. And in my case, it's been a multitude 01:26:17.510 --> 01:26:20.829 of services. I started out with the military. 01:26:21.170 --> 01:26:27.350 I think national service, I completely agree 01:26:27.350 --> 01:26:31.350 with it. It does not have to be military. It 01:26:31.350 --> 01:26:35.430 can be. I would increase it from one year to 01:26:35.430 --> 01:26:39.609 two years. And the reason I say that is because 01:26:41.019 --> 01:26:44.399 Service in that sense, be it the military or 01:26:44.399 --> 01:26:47.460 the Peace Corps or whatever entity exists at 01:26:47.460 --> 01:26:52.079 that time, is a maturing process. And that's 01:26:52.079 --> 01:26:56.479 one of the things that I think is kind of missing 01:26:56.479 --> 01:27:01.180 right now. College does not per se mature you. 01:27:02.079 --> 01:27:07.159 Life matures you. And life in service to others, 01:27:07.239 --> 01:27:09.399 wherever that might be or however that might 01:27:09.399 --> 01:27:15.789 be, That, I think, is a great idea. You just 01:27:15.789 --> 01:27:18.130 hit on a very interesting point, because one 01:27:18.130 --> 01:27:20.109 of the things that I'm struggling with at the 01:27:20.109 --> 01:27:23.130 moment is we have a national recruitment crisis 01:27:23.130 --> 01:27:25.170 in the first responder professions like bona 01:27:25.170 --> 01:27:27.710 fide. This is not James Gearing's opinion. the 01:27:27.710 --> 01:27:30.909 statistics versus how recruitment was 10, 15, 01:27:30.970 --> 01:27:33.409 20 years ago has plummeted. And, you know, one 01:27:33.409 --> 01:27:35.810 of the things in my profession is addressing 01:27:35.810 --> 01:27:37.710 all the things that are broken, the work being 01:27:37.710 --> 01:27:40.970 a big part of them. And again, to Jason's point, 01:27:41.069 --> 01:27:43.210 you know, if we start grassroots, which is what 01:27:43.210 --> 01:27:46.170 happened with this one, we're seeing a revolution 01:27:46.170 --> 01:27:48.390 in the fire service now. It's beautiful. But 01:27:48.390 -->

01:27:50.229 one of the things that the agencies have been 01:27:50.229 --> 01:27:53.109 doing is hiring firefighters at 18 years old. 01:27:53.550 --> 01:27:55.949 to go straight into shift work to start seeing 01:27:55.949 --> 01:27:58.369 all the horrible stuff that we see. And we know 01:27:58.369 --> 01:28:00.770 now through neuroscience that the brain is still 01:28:00.770 --> 01:28:03.010 developing. And that, you know, this is probably 01:28:03.010 --> 01:28:05.609 one of the reasons why a lot of our military 01:28:05.609 --> 01:28:08.430 members that came in very, very young struggle. 01:28:08.590 --> 01:28:10.710 Because, I mean, they're exposed, especially 01:28:10.710 --> 01:28:13.710 in the 20 years that we saw, you know, the last 01:28:13.710 --> 01:28:16.229 two decades to higher levels of trauma while 01:28:16.229 --> 01:28:18.390 their brain is not even mature enough to process 01:28:18.390 --> 01:28:20.930 it yet, you know, on top of, you know, all the 01:28:20.930 --> 01:28:23.770 other factors that contribute. But to have a 01:28:23.770 --> 01:28:27.850 two -year period of service where a young high 01:28:27.850 --> 01:28:30.670 school graduate could contribute in a different 01:28:30.670 --> 01:28:35.109 way and then be, to Emily's point, prioritized, 01:28:35.130 --> 01:28:37.989 you know, sorry, to Jason's point, prioritized 01:28:37.989 --> 01:28:40.670 then in recruitment by police, fire, EMS, corrections, 01:28:40.850 --> 01:28:43.270 dispatch, whoever it is. But they've been given 01:28:43.270 --> 01:28:45.390 a couple of years to mature, a couple of years 01:28:45.390 --> 01:28:48.710 for that brain to develop. What a great on -ramp 01:28:48.710 --> 01:28:50.869 for the first responder professions and, you 01:28:50.869 --> 01:28:54.289 know, arguably the military as well. Absolutely. 01:28:54.670 --> 01:28:59.989 It's settled then. I'll call Donald right now. 01:29:03.510 --> 01:29:07.170 All right. Well, we touched on again, you know, 01:29:07.189 --> 01:29:09.369 the World War II generation. I think this is 01:29:09.369 --> 01:29:11.449 what's so important. There were so many lessons 01:29:11.449 --> 01:29:13.789 and sadly we've lost, you know, so many of them 01:29:13.789 --> 01:29:16.260 now. And I've been very fortunate to have. You 01:29:16.260 --> 01:29:18.779 know, a survivor of Auschwitz on the show, Iwo 01:29:18.779 --> 01:29:21.300 Jima veteran on the show. I got to interview 01:29:21.300 --> 01:29:24.960 two more live about two or three years ago now. 01:29:25.880 --> 01:29:29.500 So talk to me about, you know, your Normandy 01:29:29.500 --> 01:29:31.560 ruck that you do, because I don't think we talked 01:29:31.560 --> 01:29:33.619 about that last time, but I think that's such 01:29:33.619 --> 01:29:35.439 a powerful perspective that you're getting. So 01:29:35.439 --> 01:29:37.979 talk to me about the event itself and then what 01:29:37.979 --> 01:29:39.960 have been some of the experiences that you've 01:29:39.960 --> 01:29:42.020 had in past events. Well, you know, we've got 01:29:42.020 --> 01:29:47.319 a World War II veteran here, right? That's what 01:29:47.319 --> 01:29:50.619 Jason likes to say. Just kidding. He always does. 01:29:51.520 --> 01:29:53.560 So it's five scores. Is that what you're telling 01:29:53.560 --> 01:29:57.579 me? More importantly, this year, ask Emily what 01:29:57.579 --> 01:30:01.659 she's been preparing for. Yes. So I'll let Jason 01:30:01.659 --> 01:30:03.680 tell about our rucks that we've done over the 01:30:03.680 --> 01:30:05.939 years, which have been amazing. And we're going 01:30:05.939 --> 01:30:08.840 to do them again this year. But I got an invitation 01:30:08.840 --> 01:30:14.529 last year. to be part of the first ever all -female 01:30:14.529 --> 01:30:19.170 jump team into Normandy. So in March, I went 01:30:19.170 --> 01:30:23.449 to the basic parachute training course and got 01:30:23.449 --> 01:30:27.170 my wings, and I'm going to be parachuting on 01:30:27.170 --> 01:30:31.270 June 5th with an all -female team into Engleville 01:30:31.270 --> 01:30:36.109 in Normandy. I remember now. I saw the video 01:30:36.109 --> 01:30:39.229 of them shoving the wings into your chest. Yeah, 01:30:39.229 --> 01:30:43.170 they asked me if I wanted them. I said, of course 01:30:43.170 --> 01:30:47.130 I do. It's not going to be another chance. So 01:30:47.130 --> 01:30:52.050 yeah, that's going to be for the 82nd anniversary, 01:30:52.210 --> 01:30:55.729 a special one. But when we were there for the 01:30:55.729 --> 01:30:59.510 75th and the 80th and again for the 82nd, we've 01:30:59.510 --> 01:31:05.130 done several rucks, but the big one is from Utah 01:31:05.130 --> 01:31:09.199 to Omaha Beach. And we've made it 75 kilometers 01:31:09.199 --> 01:31:14.039 or 80 kilometers given the, you know, the anniversary 01:31:14.039 --> 01:31:21.800 year. And hitting all the major sites along the 01:31:21.800 --> 01:31:25.539 way, including St. Mary Glees, the German Cemetery, 01:31:25.739 --> 01:31:29.720 the American Cemetery, Grand Camp Maisy, and 01:31:29.720 --> 01:31:33.460 other amazing spots. And going from Pointe du 01:31:33.460 --> 01:31:38.630 Hoc to... Omaha is one of the more gorgeous rucks 01:31:38.630 --> 01:31:43.550 that we've ever been on. It's the greatest ruck 01:31:43.550 --> 01:31:45.729 on the planet. Yeah, it's beautiful. I mean, 01:31:45.729 --> 01:31:47.409 the thing about the longer events in Normandy 01:31:47.409 --> 01:31:50.189 is that Normandy, I think, is meant to be a quiet 01:31:50.189 --> 01:31:54.710 place to actually understand the whole situation 01:31:54.710 --> 01:31:57.590 as best you can now when you're there. I mean, 01:31:57.609 --> 01:32:00.409 you see the movies or you go to the museums or 01:32:00.409 --> 01:32:03.029 you see the beach landings or you go to the cemeteries. 01:32:03.289 --> 01:32:08.000 I mean, all of that is... and you'll see the 01:32:08.000 -->

01:32:10.300 full spectrum of human emotion. You'll feel it, 01:32:10.340 --> 01:32:13.640 right? But man, when you're just on a quiet road, 01:32:13.880 --> 01:32:17.279 dirt road in Normandy. Walking the hedgerows. 01:32:17.460 --> 01:32:19.859 Walking the hedgerows. I mean, it's just ambush 01:32:19.859 --> 01:32:23.319 alley everywhere you go. And that's just what 01:32:23.319 --> 01:32:26.640 it was up there. And it's just really, really 01:32:26.640 --> 01:32:31.060 quiet. It's farmland everywhere. And so that's 01:32:31.060 --> 01:32:33.539 where they invaded and that's where the first 01:32:33.539 --> 01:32:37.930 fight was. It's just, in its own way, it's just 01:32:37.930 --> 01:32:40.850 terrifying to think about. You could do everything 01:32:40.850 --> 01:32:42.829 right and it's not going to go your way. So it's 01:32:42.829 --> 01:32:47.670 a lot of luck. It feels like going back in time 01:32:47.670 --> 01:32:53.210 when you're rucking in a small group at 2 a .m. 01:32:53.989 --> 01:33:00.350 in that sacred place. It's one of the more memorable 01:33:00.350 --> 01:33:10.000 rucks we've ever been on. Rich? Well, a lot of 01:33:10.000 --> 01:33:17.800 my history in what I did later on, even though 01:33:17.800 --> 01:33:23.859 Jason says I was there, comes from those gentlemen 01:33:23.859 --> 01:33:29.880 and ladies from the Office of Strategic Services 01:33:29.880 --> 01:33:33.460 to the Rangers to the First Special Service Force. 01:33:34.119 --> 01:33:36.760 those people that came out of those landings 01:33:36.760 --> 01:33:41.539 and those battles and those fights and to to 01:33:41.539 --> 01:33:48.079 connect with that history that I've always honored 01:33:48.079 --> 01:33:51.359 but now even more so honored having been there 01:33:51.359 --> 01:33:55.359 and seeing where they were what they did and 01:33:55.359 --> 01:34:01.529 and understanding just how tough it was and One 01:34:01.529 --> 01:34:03.529 of the interesting points, not to get off the 01:34:03.529 --> 01:34:05.529 subject, but one of the most interesting points 01:34:05.529 --> 01:34:11.029 that I learned on the 80th anniversary was, as 01:34:11.029 --> 01:34:14.550 we all know, the various airborne units were 01:34:14.550 --> 01:34:17.310 dropped, virtually none of them where they were 01:34:17.310 --> 01:34:20.010 supposed to be dropped. Maybe a couple of guys 01:34:20.010 --> 01:34:22.649 made it, but they were just blown all over the 01:34:22.649 --> 01:34:25.569 place, the winds, the anti -aircraft, et cetera. 01:34:28.140 --> 01:34:30.659 Always in the back of my mind, because these 01:34:30.659 --> 01:34:36.039 guys then began moving to points to gather themselves, 01:34:36.159 --> 01:34:40.100 and maps in that area don't do a whole lot of 01:34:40.100 --> 01:34:43.699 good. Road signs certainly don't do good because 01:34:43.699 --> 01:34:45.720 they're probably pointing the opposite direction. 01:34:46.239 --> 01:34:49.340 But somebody, I don't know who, and I wish I 01:34:49.340 --> 01:34:54.039 did, on the Allied staff had made sure that all 01:34:54.039 --> 01:34:57.359 of those paratroopers had studied. the church 01:34:57.359 --> 01:35:01.000 steeples throughout Normandy, throughout the 01:35:01.000 --> 01:35:04.500 general drop zone area, and that's how they oriented 01:35:04.500 --> 01:35:07.859 themselves once they were on the ground. They 01:35:07.859 --> 01:35:10.659 could look and say, oh, that isn't Saint -Mere 01:35:10.659 --> 01:35:13.600 -du -Mont, that's Saint -Église or Saint -Mère 01:35:13.600 --> 01:35:17.840 -Église. And so they were able to reorganize 01:35:17.840 --> 01:35:21.439 themselves after such a horrendous drop back 01:35:21.439 --> 01:35:24.189 into the units that they needed to fight. And 01:35:24.189 --> 01:35:26.890 I thought that was a very interesting point. 01:35:27.090 --> 01:35:30.130 And to realize that they're doing all of that 01:35:30.130 --> 01:35:34.029 while they're getting shot at. And some pretty 01:35:34.029 --> 01:35:39.069 horrific fighting went on there. But I was just 01:35:39.069 --> 01:35:41.569 thinking as well, like when I moved to America, 01:35:42.289 --> 01:35:44.649 you know, when I was driving ambulances, they're 01:35:44.649 --> 01:35:47.319 like, okay, you got to go north on. First Avenue 01:35:47.319 --> 01:35:49.939 and then, you know, West on 12th or whatever. 01:35:50.079 --> 01:35:51.779 And I'm like, this is so alien to me because 01:35:51.779 --> 01:35:53.420 I grew up, you know, you just go around the corner, 01:35:53.560 --> 01:35:55.199 there'll be a post office on the left and you're 01:35:55.199 --> 01:35:57.560 going to see a large, you know, oak tree, make 01:35:57.560 --> 01:36:00.119 a right there. Then you'll see a phone box. And 01:36:00.119 --> 01:36:03.300 that was our direct. So I can't imagine, you 01:36:03.300 --> 01:36:07.319 know, American service members that grew up in 01:36:07.319 --> 01:36:10.479 an urban environment that were then dropped into 01:36:10.479 --> 01:36:13.859 European countryside. Not only like you said. 01:36:14.220 --> 01:36:16.260 signs being moved and that but just navigating 01:36:16.260 --> 01:36:19.359 full stop when they come from cities where everything's 01:36:19.359 --> 01:36:21.840 in a grid pattern and now you know like you said 01:36:21.840 --> 01:36:24.180 you're just following this this basically chaos 01:36:24.180 --> 01:36:28.239 that we have in uh you know in rural europe and 01:36:28.239 --> 01:36:31.220 so and then you remove gps and you know any good 01:36:31.220 --> 01:36:33.600 radio technology that i know a lot of people 01:36:33.600 --> 01:36:36.800 have these days It really blows my mind, like 01:36:36.800 --> 01:36:39.479 you said, how they were able to not only not 01:36:39.479 --> 01:36:42.359 get killed, but ultimately succeed when they 01:36:42.359 --> 01:36:44.539 were dropped in a completely foreign place like 01:36:44.539 --> 01:36:49.220 that.

And as both Jason and Emily have said, 01:36:49.500 --> 01:36:53.460 one of the things that struck me in Normandy 01:36:53.460 --> 01:36:57.380 was the quietness, the peaceful countryside, 01:36:57.600 --> 01:37:02.680 and knowing that generations before me had been 01:37:02.680 --> 01:37:05.949 there. And that peaceful countryside erupted 01:37:05.949 --> 01:37:10.229 into probably one of the most horrific battles 01:37:10.229 --> 01:37:16.649 that the world has ever seen. So my hat's off 01:37:16.649 --> 01:37:22.550 to them. Absolutely. Well, I know another thing 01:37:22.550 --> 01:37:25.310 that you've got coming up is the 25th anniversary 01:37:25.310 --> 01:37:28.649 of 9 -11. So talk to me about what you guys are 01:37:28.649 --> 01:37:32.670 doing as far as GORUCK on that day. We have... 01:37:33.759 --> 01:37:37.979 Almost two weeks worth of, well, two weekends 01:37:37.979 --> 01:37:41.939 worth of events in New York City that are being 01:37:41.939 --> 01:37:47.420 planned. Our city rucks, our traditional challenge 01:37:47.420 --> 01:37:50.840 events, some workouts. So it's going to be a 01:37:50.840 --> 01:37:54.079 big year for that. We also have a few satellite 01:37:54.079 --> 01:37:58.479 cities. I think it's Orlando and Nashville where 01:37:58.479 --> 01:38:02.050 we'll have some. and maybe one out west where 01:38:02.050 --> 01:38:04.350 we'll have some events as well but you know the 01:38:04.350 --> 01:38:07.689 the the main part is going to be in new york 01:38:07.689 --> 01:38:12.949 um for this 25th event and yeah we've already 01:38:12.949 --> 01:38:16.270 the planning's been going on for a while now 01:38:16.270 --> 01:38:20.050 on that it's really kind of uplifting amongst 01:38:20.050 --> 01:38:23.229 the tragedy to just sort of go back and celebrate 01:38:23.229 --> 01:38:28.409 yeah what it is now with people that it means 01:38:28.409 --> 01:38:32.189 something to Because you hear, oh, the kids don't 01:38:32.189 --> 01:38:34.449 even know what 9 -11 is. And it's just more of 01:38:34.449 --> 01:38:37.329 this, oh, and the world's burning. And look, 01:38:37.430 --> 01:38:40.050 the kids. And this has gone on for forever. But 01:38:40.050 --> 01:38:43.630 I mean, it's OK. It's kind of like, you know, 01:38:43.689 --> 01:38:46.229 Pearl Harbor isn't the same emotional response 01:38:46.229 --> 01:38:50.050 to me as the towers falling is. And that's just 01:38:50.050 --> 01:38:53.329 that's human nature. And so this is really important 01:38:53.329 --> 01:38:56.109 to us. By the way, we run events in. In Hawaii 01:38:56.109 --> 01:38:58.649 as well. But this is really important to us. 01:38:58.729 --> 01:39:00.829 And so the 25th anniversary, it's a milestone. 01:39:01.069 --> 01:39:05.350 And it's really great to get to go back to New 01:39:05.350 --> 01:39:07.970 York and spend some time there. But, you know, 01:39:07.970 --> 01:39:10.569 so much of the GORUK events, especially the memorial 01:39:10.569 --> 01:39:13.729 ones, are to keep those stories alive, right? 01:39:13.829 --> 01:39:17.800 To tell those stories, to make sure that... the 01:39:17.800 --> 01:39:21.220 younger generations have a way of learning it 01:39:21.220 --> 01:39:23.800 even outside of their history classes to bring 01:39:23.800 --> 01:39:27.399 it to life. And, you know, there are, there are 01:39:27.399 --> 01:39:30.119 still history buffs out there in elementary school 01:39:30.119 --> 01:39:32.180 and middle school and high school. And they, 01:39:32.319 --> 01:39:35.819 they want to. to learn that i mean i see it all 01:39:35.819 --> 01:39:38.779 the time where someone's you know their parent 01:39:38.779 --> 01:39:40.720 will say oh you know she's going to normandy 01:39:40.720 --> 01:39:44.140 and the the child is really into that kind of 01:39:44.140 --> 01:39:47.720 history so you know it's just a way to to bring 01:39:47.720 --> 01:39:50.800 it to life i've always thought of the goruck 01:39:50.800 --> 01:39:54.140 challenge in our events as like little living 01:39:54.140 --> 01:39:58.359 laboratories you know of of, you know, human 01:39:58.359 --> 01:40:01.680 interaction and passing down and sharing of these 01:40:01.680 --> 01:40:04.560 stories and sort of like passing down of like 01:40:04.560 --> 01:40:08.779 tribal knowledge in a way that may have felt 01:40:08.779 --> 01:40:11.920 like it's lost. But, you know, we've been keeping 01:40:11.920 --> 01:40:17.140 it going since 2010. People need a place to share 01:40:17.140 --> 01:40:23.039 those stories. One of the, you know, resounding 01:40:23.039 --> 01:40:25.079 common denominators i had from all the people 01:40:25.079 --> 01:40:27.710 that you know have these 911 stories the people 01:40:27.710 --> 01:40:30.109 that were actually in New York at that time is 01:40:30.109 --> 01:40:33.350 9 -12. People say, I miss 9 -12. Well, 9 -12 01:40:33.350 --> 01:40:36.189 can be any day. We don't have to wait for a tragedy. 01:40:36.329 --> 01:40:39.270 But I think just as important as it is to revisit 01:40:39.270 --> 01:40:44.109 what happened on 9 -11, I mean, really, to Jason's 01:40:44.109 --> 01:40:45.829 point, if we're going to pull the positive from 01:40:45.829 --> 01:40:48.729 the negative, that is it. That showed who we 01:40:48.729 --> 01:40:50.930 really are as a nation, and everyone came together, 01:40:51.069 --> 01:40:53.630 and it was churches and synagogues and mosques. 01:40:54.279 --> 01:40:57.140 All these places of all diverse backgrounds that 01:40:57.140 --> 01:41:00.460 were opening their doors. And I think that's 01:41:00.460 --> 01:41:03.119 just as important. So when you see these events, 01:41:03.760 --> 01:41:05.920 I climbed the World Trade Center, One World Trade 01:41:05.920 --> 01:41:09.859 with Rob Jones, double amputee Marine a few years 01:41:09.859 --> 01:41:12.739 ago. And that was it. It wasn't about revisiting 01:41:12.739 --> 01:41:15.279 the horror. It was honoring

everyone and bringing 01:41:15.279 --> 01:41:17.500 that community back together again, in that case, 01:41:17.500 --> 01:41:21.460 fundraising as well. So I think that's... equally 01:41:21.460 --> 01:41:24.220 as important is to remember what happened next, 01:41:24.380 --> 01:41:27.039 what happened after the towers fell. And that 01:41:27.039 --> 01:41:30.119 was really, you know, the core of, you know, 01:41:30.119 --> 01:41:32.079 what America really is, not just America, so 01:41:32.079 --> 01:41:34.220 many other countries around that reached out 01:41:34.220 --> 01:41:37.880 after. But yeah, so I think that the 9 -12 takeaway 01:41:37.880 --> 01:41:43.060 is imperative that we remember that. Yes. Amen, 01:41:43.159 --> 01:41:47.079 man. You got to stay positive or else it gets 01:41:47.079 --> 01:41:52.520 worse. Yeah. Absolutely. All right. Well then 01:41:52.520 --> 01:41:55.279 one kind of closing remark before I let you guys 01:41:55.279 --> 01:41:58.119 go, I'm mindful of your time. The last time we 01:41:58.119 --> 01:42:00.399 sat down, I mean, I've watched your kind of, 01:42:00.399 --> 01:42:03.119 uh, inventory sounds such a cold word, but the, 01:42:03.260 --> 01:42:06.739 the, the numerous elements that you're, you're 01:42:06.739 --> 01:42:09.800 creating now go from, you know, the, the packs, 01:42:09.939 --> 01:42:11.899 the origin story that you guys told me years 01:42:11.899 --> 01:42:14.859 ago, all the way to where we are today. So what 01:42:14.859 --> 01:42:17.100 are the innovations over the last four or five 01:42:17.100 --> 01:42:22.039 years that you brought to the community? I mean, 01:42:22.159 --> 01:42:25.819 you know, we're, the gear front, it's sort of 01:42:25.819 --> 01:42:27.600 problem solving. And you say, hey, let's focus 01:42:27.600 --> 01:42:29.520 on rucking. Well, that's carrying weight. And 01:42:29.520 --> 01:42:32.079 it puts a lot of additional stress and strain 01:42:32.079 --> 01:42:36.859 on gear and the human body. And so there's different 01:42:36.859 --> 01:42:40.939 kind of ways of performance that that, you know, 01:42:40.939 --> 01:42:44.000 of solving that specific problem. And we've just 01:42:44.000 --> 01:42:46.680 focused on that. So different ways of carrying, 01:42:46.859 --> 01:42:50.079 whether it's. sandbag stuff all different kinds 01:42:50.079 --> 01:42:51.739 or it's different kinds of rocks for different 01:42:51.739 --> 01:42:54.640 kinds of bodies or different kinds of usages 01:42:54.640 --> 01:42:57.899 and you know the big you know thing this last 01:42:57.899 --> 01:43:01.899 year was a spy rock that m spearheaded so built 01:43:01.899 --> 01:43:04.220 from the ground up for women and we have you 01:43:04.220 --> 01:43:07.239 know apparel that comes with a lifetime guarantee 01:43:07.239 --> 01:43:09.319 and we have footwear that's you know i've got 01:43:09.319 --> 01:43:12.159 i don't know a couple thousand miles on this 01:43:12.159 --> 01:43:14.180 pair of shoes i have on here and we just always 01:43:14.180 --> 01:43:16.939 test and refine and make sure that it's working 01:43:16.939 --> 01:43:19.680 really well and keep focusing on what we're really 01:43:19.680 --> 01:43:23.500 really good at and that's that's a fun process 01:43:23.500 --> 01:43:28.220 and what about goruck scars talk to me about 01:43:28.220 --> 01:43:37.060 that scars has has They still do repairs because 01:43:37.060 --> 01:43:39.579 people put our bags through tough stuff. As a 01:43:39.579 --> 01:43:41.579 matter of fact, we had a bag come in today that 01:43:41.579 --> 01:43:44.539 had been through some really tough times with 01:43:44.539 --> 01:43:52.520 a large dog. It happens. It happens. And we fix 01:43:52.520 --> 01:43:54.680 it. And we've got some great people down there 01:43:54.680 --> 01:43:58.539 that have some very innovative ideas, would like 01:43:58.539 --> 01:44:02.060 to find. more time for them to do those innovative 01:44:02.060 --> 01:44:04.979 ideas and do some more built by SCARS equipment 01:44:04.979 --> 01:44:09.000 that are basically one -offs or customizations, 01:44:09.039 --> 01:44:13.399 if you will, of gear that we already have. But 01:44:13.399 --> 01:44:16.640 they keep knocking it out of the park every time 01:44:16.640 --> 01:44:19.659 they repair something. It's just, it's a stellar 01:44:19.659 --> 01:44:25.500 job and they work hard in doing that. All right. 01:44:25.520 --> 01:44:28.000 And the final area, you're sitting in a brand 01:44:28.000 --> 01:44:31.000 new headquarters now. So what made you make the 01:44:31.000 --> 01:44:33.920 transition from where we all sat down last time 01:44:33.920 --> 01:44:36.260 I was there? And then what are the things that 01:44:36.260 --> 01:44:39.319 you're doing out of the new HQ? Well, we loved 01:44:39.319 --> 01:44:44.619 our old space, but we knew that our landlord 01:44:44.619 --> 01:44:48.039 was going to want to take that space over eventually 01:44:48.039 --> 01:44:50.439 because they were growing and we were growing. 01:44:51.879 --> 01:44:55.439 And we were we looked for years, we looked and 01:44:55.439 --> 01:44:57.560 we were kind of resigned that, oh, we might have 01:44:57.560 --> 01:45:00.520 to leave, you know, a spot near the beach and 01:45:00.520 --> 01:45:04.100 do something in town. And that wasn't that we 01:45:04.100 --> 01:45:06.399 weren't that excited about that, you know, driving 01:45:06.399 --> 01:45:08.520 more instead of, you know, being able to rock 01:45:08.520 --> 01:45:11.840 or bike or, you know, get get here easily and 01:45:11.840 --> 01:45:16.119 have a great place to host events. So we came 01:45:16.119 --> 01:45:18.659 across this one spot that was an old medical 01:45:18.659 --> 01:45:23.119 building. It's one mile south of our old place, 01:45:23.199 --> 01:45:26.100 same distance from the beach, same sort of like 01:45:26.100 --> 01:45:29.140 in the middle of everything, but also offset

01:45:29.140 --> 01:45:33.520 enough to have its own space. And Jason looked 01:45:33.520 --> 01:45:35.020 at it and he was like, well, I want a rooftop. 01:45:36.659 --> 01:45:40.439 Priced out with that beard, it was not cost effective 01:45:40.439 --> 01:45:43.359 to make a rooftop. And so he was like, I don't 01:45:43.359 --> 01:45:46.579 want it. And then fortunately, the contractor, 01:45:46.859 --> 01:45:49.779 they said, well, what if you build a deck? So 01:45:49.779 --> 01:45:53.560 we built a deck on added a deck to this existing 01:45:53.560 --> 01:45:57.479 space. And now we have covered parking. We doubled 01:45:57.479 --> 01:46:01.800 our square footage and we are able to still host 01:46:01.800 --> 01:46:06.020 a lot of events and have all our team here. And, 01:46:06.100 --> 01:46:09.220 you know, it's it's been a year. It's a year 01:46:09.220 --> 01:46:14.189 next month that we were. um in this space so 01:46:14.189 --> 01:46:17.029 still still finding things that we need to do 01:46:17.029 --> 01:46:19.569 hang up on the you know decorated and whatnot 01:46:19.569 --> 01:46:23.689 and find our podcast equipment but um it's been 01:46:23.689 --> 01:46:26.930 great it's um the last place was great but the 01:46:26.930 --> 01:46:30.689 best landlord is no landlord yeah yeah they were 01:46:30.689 --> 01:46:35.369 all so you own you you own it now yes yeah it's 01:46:35.369 --> 01:46:39.380 our own space and we upgraded our kind of walk 01:46:39.380 --> 01:46:41.720 to food options. We were in a little bit of a 01:46:41.720 --> 01:46:45.199 food desert before, and now we've got all sorts 01:46:45.199 --> 01:46:47.899 of options at our fingertips, healthy ones too. 01:46:48.279 --> 01:46:51.220 Although I do have to say that from my house 01:46:51.220 --> 01:46:55.319 to the old location was a mile, and now it's 01:46:55.319 --> 01:46:59.340 my house to here is two miles. So Jason, in effect, 01:46:59.640 --> 01:47:08.569 doubled my commute. Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. All 01:47:08.569 --> 01:47:11.029 right. Well, for people listening, if they want 01:47:11.029 --> 01:47:13.789 to obviously find all the things around the world, 01:47:13.850 --> 01:47:16.289 Go Ruck, where are the best places to go online? 01:47:16.390 --> 01:47:18.649 And then also if they wanted to find HQ, if they 01:47:18.649 --> 01:47:20.529 wanted to come and do an event with you, where 01:47:20.529 --> 01:47:24.409 are you now? Yeah. So our headquarters is in 01:47:24.409 --> 01:47:27.770 Jack's Beach. We have a ruck club that meets 01:47:27.770 --> 01:47:32.350 three times a week here. If you go to Go Ruck 01:47:32.350 --> 01:47:35.470 Rad, which is rucking activities division, you 01:47:35.470 --> 01:47:38.670 can. see it pinned on when we it's a good time 01:47:38.670 --> 01:47:43.510 to drop in come sweat it sweat with us um anytime 01:47:43.510 --> 01:47:49.130 um and then obviously go rock on our instagram 01:47:49.130 --> 01:47:52.250 to kind of see what's going on or our website 01:47:52.250 --> 01:47:55.949 gorock .com friday nights bourbon and cigars 01:47:55.949 --> 01:47:58.329 come down with rich that's with rich yeah