Full Transcript for Ask The Dog!

want to say, and I've got nothing to do, I mean, they're a sponsor of yours, but I am so grateful to PRN because there is now a drug, and we're here to talk about dogs, and we will, uh, but there is now a uh pharmacological solution for feline hypertrophic cardiomyopathy that is non-clinical. 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:48.560 And uh it is conditionally approved by the Food and Drug Administration Center for Veterinary Medicine. 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:57.360 So the number one cause of death in dogs and cats is behavior, as you talk about frequently. 00:04:57.680 --> 00:04:57.839 Yes. 00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:03.040 But number two on that list for cats is heart disease, specifically this kind of heart disease. 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:08.319 And uh happily it won't be number two for much longer because of this drug. 00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:12.639 And I'm part of the backstory for which I'm very, very proud of. 00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:19.040 Also, I am a fan of Reconcile, which is another product they make that both of you I know love. 00:05:19.279 --> 00:05:22.560 Yes, yes, yeah, take it like candy. 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:25.759 Yeah, one for me, one for you. 00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:35.439 It is for dogs, and um such issues as separation, anxiety, and again, different conversation than the one we're about to have. 00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:40.800 But it really, really, I think works better than generic fluoxity. 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:41.199 100%. 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:46.000 That is just my perspective, my experience, but also in talking to so many others. 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:49.279 So I they're a terrific sponsor to have. 00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:50.639 Yes, we love them. 00:05:50.800 --> 00:05:52.399 We are grateful for them every day. 00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:52.959 Yeah. 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:53.839 Uh and Dr. 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:58.079 Jill Sackman, um, and her trainer, I cannot remember her name. 00:05:58.319 --> 00:05:59.040 Jen, right? 00:05:59.199 --> 00:06:01.600 Jen just presented at VBS. 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:08.560 Um, they did a poster session on the fact that reconcile was more bioavailable um than phlooxetine, which was surprised. 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:11.040 Yeah, made made for people. 00:06:11.439 --> 00:06:13.439 So there's science behind it now, which is good. 00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:14.720 Yes, yes, absolutely. 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:21.920 Although I've had a person, I've had a person take their dogs reconcile because they were on the same dose and they ran out of their Rosac. 00:06:22.480 --> 00:06:23.279 And it was like, yeah. 00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:25.360 It was like, so how did it taste? 00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:27.199 He's like, it tasted terrible. 00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:29.439 So disgusting. 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:31.519 They never do that again, will you? 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:32.480 Oh my goodness. 00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:33.360 It's not. 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:34.639 I know people are so strange. 00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:36.560 For one thing, it's not fair to the dog. 00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:37.839 I know. 00:06:38.079 --> 00:06:38.959 That's what I think about. 00:06:39.439 --> 00:06:41.759 But it's probably not a healthy thing for them to do. 00:06:42.399 --> 00:06:44.399 No, I can't imagine that it tastes very good. 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:51.920 But remember, Hive Mind, you can find all of our signature cocktail and mocktail recipes on our website, Behavior Buzz with six Z. 00:06:52.319 --> 00:06:53.519 So let's dive right in. 00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:55.920 We talked a little bit about 1978. 00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:01.360 That was a significant year for animal welfare legislation, as Amy Pike told us just recently. 00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:03.519 Nearly 50 years later. 00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:05.680 Nearly, nearly 50 years later. 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:06.319 It's crazy. 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:11.199 We were talking about something that sounds deceptively simple, asking the dog, right? 00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:13.199 Welfare means like ask the dog. 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:17.120 We should all know what everybody's feeling and what everybody's thinking and treat them with respect. 00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:19.759 What inspired you to write Ask the Dog? 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:23.839 And why did you feel like this was a story that needed to be told specifically to children? 00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:25.519 Uh first of all, thank you. 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:31.360 Uh, I'm humbled, really, that you guys said, you're a veterinary behaviorist. 00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:32.560 You probably know that. 00:07:32.879 --> 00:07:35.199 But that you've heard that. 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:38.639 But that you guys say this book is okay. 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:40.240 Have me here. 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:42.480 What's more, I can do better. 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:44.399 Jen Goodall said the same. 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:45.040 Yeah. 00:07:45.279 --> 00:07:47.519 And I I'm so grateful. 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:56.240 Unfortunately, she passed away before she was able to write the blur, but her people, her people, said, go ahead and use a quote that she had previously given me. 00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:02.399 The American Veterinary Medical Association, they never endorse books ever. 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:04.879 Because everyone comes to them for that. 00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:07.920 So they've made it a policy for decades and decades. 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:10.480 And they endorse this book. 00:08:10.720 --> 00:08:11.199 That's awesome. 00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:18.879 So I am Patricia McConnell, who is revered as a PhD behaviorist. 00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:21.360 And she wrote the foreword. 00:08:21.759 --> 00:08:29.920 And the forward to a kid's book is three sentences, but nevertheless, she did do that for me, and I am grateful to her for that. 00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:31.439 The idea came from this. 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:36.320 There I am down the street from where I'm at right now with our little dog.

00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:40.320 She at that point was about 15 or 16 years old. 00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:42.080 There's another dog next to us. 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:43.840 She doesn't care about that other dog. 00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:45.679 She's just sniffing at the grass, right? 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:49.360 The other dog didn't care about me or our dog. 00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:53.519 Uh I'd say a 25-30-pound mixed-breed dog of some sort. 00:08:53.840 --> 00:08:55.360 Just sniffing at the grass, too. 00:08:55.919 --> 00:08:57.519 They're about to walk away. 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:10.000 The other dog and the lady at the other end of the leash of that other dog, when she looks at me, I don't know her, and says, out of the blue, don't you want to pet my dog? 00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:11.679 And what? 00:09:12.159 --> 00:09:12.960 And I look away. 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:13.919 Come online. 00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:14.960 Yeah, right. 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:17.919 Maybe that's what it was all about. 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:18.480 I don't know. 00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:24.799 And I look at the dog and I said, No, thank you. 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:27.759 At which one she gave me this nasty look. 00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:28.879 Like, what do you mean? 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:30.080 You don't like dogs? 00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:32.240 So you guys would know. 00:09:32.399 --> 00:09:35.360 I mean, and most veterinary professionals may know. 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:40.960 All the dog was doing was not giving me eye contact, even though I was standing right there. 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:47.679 Even though I moved like a quarter of a step closer, maybe, maybe, maybe that much, not even to the dog. 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:58.080 Dog was looking the other way, was kind of stiff, was pulling to the other end, in fact, of the leash in the opposite direction. 00:09:58.879 --> 00:10:03.840 Dog wasn't growling or barking or doing any other obvious signaling. 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:05.360 But to me, this was obvious. 00:10:05.759 --> 00:10:05.919 Yes. 00:10:06.159 --> 00:10:10.240 And to the dog it was obvious, which is maybe most important. 00:10:10.799 --> 00:10:16.240 In any which case, when I said no, thank you, she just like gave me this nasty look and began to walk away. 00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:17.919 Now, why did the dog do that? 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:19.840 And would the dog have bitten me? 00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:21.600 So it gave me an idea. 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:27.200 Probably because dogs are not are as tolerant, are as tolerant as they are. 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:30.080 This dog would not have bitten me, but who knows? 00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:30.559 Who knows? 00:10:30.799 --> 00:10:33.600 The dog, why was it not wanting to interact with me? 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:36.240 And clearly to me, it was clear. 00:10:36.559 --> 00:10:37.679 And it was clear to the dog. 00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:38.080 This dog. 00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:41.440 Yeah, this dog was saying no, thank you.

00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:44.720 Now, maybe lunch was in the other direction. 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:45.039 Right. 00:10:45.279 --> 00:10:46.639 And the dog was just hungry. 00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:52.879 Maybe there was a Starbucks down the street, and maybe the dog was ready for a pup cup. 00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:53.519 That's right. 00:10:53.919 --> 00:11:02.480 I mean, maybe the dog didn't like strangers, which is why the lady said in the first place, don't you want to pet my dog, as she was trying to get people to pet her dog. 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:04.240 It doesn't matter why. 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:11.679 I know that dog bites, and and we could talk more about this, are likely at an all-time high in this country. 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:23.200 We have more dogs than ever before, but the number of dog bites is superseding percentage-wise, including dog bite fatalities, have never been so high. 00:11:23.759 --> 00:11:25.440 So we've got all that going. 00:11:25.519 --> 00:11:27.039 And I thought, you know what? 00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:29.120 I need to talk about this. 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:33.840 And it occurred to me at that point, we've been taught to ask, can I pet your dog? 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:36.639 This lady certainly would have said, Yeah, absolutely. 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:38.960 The dog was saying no. 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:44.799 And that made me think of the concept, ask the dog. 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:55.360 We know that we've had two sort of initiatives about dog bites over the many, many, many decades, as far as I can find. 00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:57.840 One is ask, can I pet your dog? 00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:00.080 Perfectly sensible thing to do. 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:01.840 I'm not arguing that. 00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:06.480 The other is socializing dogs in the first place so they're less likely to bite. 00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:17.600 Understanding that critical or important period of socialization, which John Fuller and John Paul Scott did in the 19 early 1960s. 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:19.759 I got to interview once John Paul Scott. 00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:21.840 Yeah, iconic. 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:24.720 He was at the University of Chicago. 00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:27.120 He was in his 80s at that point. 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:37.039 But I did go, drove down to the University of Chicago, not too far from where I live, really, and uh sat down for whatever it was, uh, an hour and a half, two hours. 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:37.600 It was wild. 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:38.159 Oh, that's great. 00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:39.679 Very lengthy conversation. 00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:45.440 He gave me some of his monographs, I think they're called, as a gift, and he was very kind. 00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:55.919 But this guy and John Fuller, long, both of them long since passed away now, discovered that, oh yeah, there is a time when we need to socialize the dogs. 00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:56.240 Dr. 00:12:56.320 --> 00:13:05.279 Ian Dunbar, who's very much still around, picked up on that notion and said, Why don't we begin puppy training classes at that point? 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:09.360 All of those things help to minimize dog bites. 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:15.440 But we forgot something officially in all of that to talk about with the general public. 00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:18.240 And that is to ask the dog. 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:18.799 Yeah. 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:19.519 Yeah. 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:21.440 It's not necessarily about asking the owner. 00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:23.120 I love, I love the title. 00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:24.879 Um, such a great concept. 00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:34.879 So, what exactly does it mean to ask the dog rather than simply assuming we know what a dog is thinking or feeling, or as the owner, projecting what you want for your pet. 00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:35.679 Yes. 00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:37.200 Yeah, go ahead, it's fine. 00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:38.320 Go ahead and pet my dog. 00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:40.320 Well, how often have you guys heard that? 00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:43.120 Or my dog is just in a bad mood, you know? 00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:43.600 Yeah. 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:44.320 Yeah. 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:49.440 And and you know, well, they're in my you guys see the worst of the worst very often. 00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:49.840 Sure. 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:54.159 So, and it's often a last resort that they come to see you in the first place, right? 00:13:54.639 --> 00:14:08.399 You know, so when they say, Oh, my dog's just having a bad day, I'm thinking, you're thinking, you'll have to tell me, that inside your head, you're saying, uh no, this dog has done this before. 00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:11.600 Yeah, that's why you're here in the first place, you know. 00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:17.840 So let me go back a little bit and answer one question that you asked, uh, Amy. 00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:20.559 They're both shaking their head. 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:24.000 Yeah, Dr. 00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:27.200 Learn specifically asked why was it why was it a kid's book? 00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:35.279 And um, it's because most or at least half, because those numbers are squishy, of all dog bites do have in the children. 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:45.519 And oftentimes, incidentally, it's the child that lives with the dog, which is something I'd like to talk about that isn't talked about very often. 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:49.360 And that is the dog's perspective on all this. 00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:54.080 But to answer your question, dogs are communicating with us all the time, constantly. 00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:59.600 So uh the dog laying at your side, even is communicating. 00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:03.279 And you wouldn't think, how is that dog communicating? 00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:08.159 But that dog may be communicating, I'm just laying here and don't want to really be touched. 00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:12.159 That dog may be communicating, I'm just exhausted. 00:15:12.320 -->

00:15:19.919 That dog may be communicating, please come over, you know, because the dog is literally doing this with its paw. 00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:27.519 I want to be petted right now, or is talking to you at the same time, going, you know, however, that wasn't very good, was it? 00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:31.840 And saying, please come over and I want to interact with you. 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:43.759 I mean, dogs are always communicating, even oftentimes when you are pretty sure they're not, they probably are, uh, whether they're comfortable or not, whether they're in pain or not, potentially. 00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:47.279 So, all of these things, dogs are always communicating. 00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:52.559 And most certainly when you're walking down the street, you see a dog you don't know. 00:15:52.720 --> 00:16:00.720 But even for our own dog, so him, how many of even you watching, as veterinary professionals, admit this, you might be guilty of this. 00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:03.679 You have a dog, let's say it's a smaller dog, right? 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:14.639 And you're watching television and you're bored with that reality show, or maybe commercials have come on, and the dog is sitting below you, but not on the couch or sofa with you. 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:16.960 You scoop up the dog. 00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:21.200 Yes, and the dog is squirming a little bit, saying, I don't really want to do this. 00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:29.279 I'd rather just be where I am, uh, but you don't care, or you're not reading the signals, whatever, you you scoop up that dog. 00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:31.840 Doesn't mean that dog will bite you, of course not. 00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:41.600 In part because dogs are incredibly tolerant, and just because, you know, the dog also probably loves you, which is something else. 00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:54.240 So there's a couple things in this book, and a couple things I talk about that aren't in the book, and one of the things I talk about that isn't in the book is that how do dogs feel when they do bite us? 00:16:54.559 --> 00:16:55.679 Our own dogs. 00:16:56.240 --> 00:17:02.399 How many dogs get up in the morning and say, I love that person, but I can't wait to bite her? 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:02.960 Right. 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:03.360 Yeah. 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:05.200 Gonna bite them today. 00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:07.920 Possibly my Airedale. 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:10.640 Yeah, maybe, maybe that line dog, yeah. 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:16.799 But do dogs, not dogs we don't know as much, but even they. 00:17:17.839 --> 00:17:21.279 The bite is often the last thing that they do. 00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:25.119 When you guys speak at conferences, you speak about the ladder of aggression, right? 00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:25.519 Right. 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:28.480 And the bite isn't the first thing on that ladder, right? 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:34.799 There's all these other signals, you know, whether the paws lifted or the yawn happens or whatever. 00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:37.359 There's all these other signals that come first. 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:43.039 And then ultimately, unless you're a Sharpeer, chow chow, but even they, yeah. 00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:52.400 Even those guys, uh, there's there's something they're they're turning on that left turn signal, they're putting their hand out to say I'm making a left turn first. 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:55.279 They don't necessarily just go in for the bite. 00:17:55.440 --> 00:18:00.880 And I wonder if they actually say, I tried, I tried, I tried. 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:07.200 They don't, of course, say this, but I wonder if, in a sense, they're thinking, I tried, I tried, I tried. 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:11.759 I warned them, I love them, but I just couldn't take it anymore. 00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:15.200 I was pushed to my limit and I had to bite. 00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:16.640 And then they feel remorse. 00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:18.000 I don't know that answer. 00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:20.240 I'm curious as to what you guys think. 00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:25.519 Well, I think, you know, across species, aggression is not favorable. 00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:27.599 People don't want to get in fights. 00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:31.680 Animals don't want to get into fights because they risk injury themselves, right? 00:18:31.759 --> 00:18:32.880 That is not sustainable. 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:36.559 So if they want to live a long, healthy life, they want to avoid fights. 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:38.319 And some species more than others, right? 00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:44.880 But in general, that is that is the mindset because I want to be live have a long longevity. 00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:51.759 So the fight, the aggression, the conflict is gonna be the last thing that they are forced to do. 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:54.559 I've tried, I tried, I tried, I can't stand it anymore. 00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:58.880 I'm at my threshold, and now I have to go in and actually physically intervene. 00:18:58.960 --> 00:18:59.200 Right. 00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:00.720 Even though I didn't want to. 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:01.599 Yeah. 00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:02.400 Yeah. 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:05.759 The concept of remorse, though, like let's talk about that. 00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:09.680 Because um, do they, you know, like we always say that guilty look. 00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:10.799 That guilty look. 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:12.559 Oh, and that's not guilt. 00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:13.279 We know that. 00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:14.319 Right. 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:14.720 Exactly. 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:15.440 It's not guilt. 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:22.400 So do they actually feel remorse might might not be the right word, but do they feel badly when they did it? 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:25.920 Or maybe, because I don't know, maybe remorse is the right word. 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:26.640 Yeah, I don't know. 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:30.559 I don't know if they feel bad that they

did it, like I'm sorry I did it to you. 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:33.359 I think they're like, God, I wish I didn't have to do that. 00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:35.039 Yeah, I don't feel good now. 00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:35.920 I didn't like that. 00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:37.119 I didn't like doing that. 00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:47.200 Well, and then most often too, after a bite, they're being yelled at, they're being well, you know, put in another room, like the human factor, right, plays a role in that too. 00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:48.240 So sure. 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:50.720 Um, yeah, that's an interesting concept. 00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:59.039 And something else I talk about in the book that I thought I might get pushback on, and that is hugging. 00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:00.160 Oh, yeah. 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:03.200 So I talk about a lot of the reasons for dog bites. 00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:06.160 And there's actually a national hug your dog day. 00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:13.839 You will see me out on the street with a uh picket saying, Stop hugging the dogs. 00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:19.920 Um, and I don't have to tell this audience is you know, dogs aren't primates, most don't enjoy being hugged. 00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:21.680 I'd argue some do. 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:24.720 So let me we had one of those dogs. 00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:32.240 So there we had this was years ago because this dog has been passed away for too long, you know. 00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:38.880 Uh her name was Ethel, and she was a mixed breed of everything, just a gorgeous dog. 00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:43.599 And as one example, we hire a plumber because we had a problem. 00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:46.000 Well, let me rephrase that. 00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:48.960 It wasn't a personal problem, our kitchen sink had a problem. 00:20:49.440 --> 00:21:01.839 So, so the plumber is there, and our dog, and he's on the ground because he's doing whatever he's doing with the equipment that he's doing it with, you know. 00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:10.319 Our dog walks right up to him, and he's already on the ground, and he's got this equipment or whatever he has in his hands, and the dog is right here. 00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:16.079 You can't help then, but put your arms, if you like dogs, right, around this dog. 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:16.640 Right. 00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:21.359 The dog was putting this person in a position, and Lord knows why. 00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:25.839 Because hugging on human terms can mean affection. 00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:32.079 Why you'd have affection for this what this guy charged us to do his work, I have no idea. 00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:35.119 You are not feeling the same level of affection. 00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:40.880 But nevertheless, but that dog, our that one dog is an exception. 00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:42.480 There are other dogs like that, of course. 00:21:42.559 --> 00:21:45.119 But most dogs I suggest don't like to be hugged. 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:54.960 Some learn, and maybe that happened with our dog, that it but didn't learn from us because we don't hug our dogs, that it is associated with affection. 00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:59.519 We don't have kids, but often it's with little kids, and they learn that. 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:08.240 Okay, with the hugging comes affection or maybe food, that the little if the kid's a toddler that the that he's dropping or she is dropping on the ground. 00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:12.079 But dogs aren't born huggers. 00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:28.559 And and while some individuals and cultures vary greatly about what hugging means, if you are a primate, human or non-human primate, you hug different reasons, different circumstances, as I've learned. 00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:30.960 However, not canines. 00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:36.559 And the national hug your dog day, I think we need to stop hugging our dogs. 00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:37.680 Yeah, hugging our dogs. 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:42.000 I think we also need to listen to what great-great-grandma told us. 00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:46.480 Some simple things like don't put your hand in the dog's food bowl. 00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:47.200 Right? 00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:50.400 Let sleeping dogs lie and all those things. 00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:51.440 Yeah. 00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:53.359 Just make perfect sense. 00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:59.440 But some people say it's my right because it's my home, you know, and my dog, right? 00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:01.920 Or they just don't know. 00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:04.960 They never had that great-great-grandma. 00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:12.559 Or they feel that, okay, this somehow is something that I need to do, you know. 00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:14.799 But no, it's not. 00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:19.599 And I think there are lots of reasons for dog bites on the rise. 00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:25.680 But I think one of the reasons, and data's hard to get on this stuff, but I found a little. 00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:29.359 I mean, one of the reasons is we're not understanding what dogs are telling us. 00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:29.680 Right. 00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:32.480 And there is data on the most significant dog bites. 00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:37.279 And while there are other bullet points as to why those dog bites occur, that's one of them. 00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:44.160 So I feel that if we ask the dog, maybe those dog bites won't continue to rise so much. 00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:46.000 But there's one other thing. 00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:57.680 Aren't we at the point where dogs as sentient beings have the right to just say no? 00:23:58.559 --> 00:23:58.720 Yes. 00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:01.039 And we have that conversation every day. 00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:02.960 Yep, absolutely. 00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:10.000 Well, Steve, what are some of the signals you wish that every child knew how to recognize so that we can prevent those dog bites? 00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:17.200 I could ask you guys the same question, but I'll answer, you know, because

you're more expert than I am on all this. 00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:23.920 But uh yeah, I mean, one is you're outside with a dog you don't see, and the dog raises a paw. 00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:27.200 Now, it could mean that the ground is really, really hot. 00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:31.519 It could mean that the ground is really, really cold where I live in Chicago. 00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:33.920 That happens in January. 00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:38.960 However, it also can be and often is a stress signal. 00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:45.200 A yawn can mean the dog is just um didn't get good sleep last night. 00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:46.400 It was just too noisy. 00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:47.839 Those neighbors, you know. 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:49.519 Probably not, though. 00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:52.319 Probably it is a stress signal. 00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:58.960 Lick lipping could mean the dog just had that pup cup I spoke about, or some peanut butter or something. 00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:02.640 But that is a stress signal in general as well. 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:07.839 Uh, the tail being down, a lot of people know that that's the case. 00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:09.119 But how about a wagging tail? 00:25:09.359 --> 00:25:11.839 Oh, yeah, that's so misinterpreted. 00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:12.559 Yes. 00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:21.440 So people, of course, assume that uh a wagging tail is excitability, and they're correct, but excitability isn't always good. 00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:21.920 Right. 00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:33.359 So I could see someone on the street, there aren't too many people I'd say this about, but that I really don't like, and I get really excited because I want to punch them in the nose. 00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:46.319 That's not happened, but if it were to happen, you know, so excitability isn't always positive, is what I'm trying to say. 00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:48.400 Right, it can be fear as well. 00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:54.160 The biggest one might be a dog that just turns over on its back and explodes. 00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:57.839 Yeah, just wants a belly rub. 00:25:58.160 --> 00:26:03.440 Yeah, and the dog may indeed want a belly rub, uh, but maybe not. 00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:05.519 So, how do you know? 00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:11.200 And and the answer to all these things and others' signals, let the dog tell you. 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:19.119 If the dog wants to interact with you, and again, you guys are more expert, you tell me how you feel about it. 00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:24.880 But if the dog wants to interact with you, the dog will signal, I want to interact with you. 00:26:25.119 --> 00:26:27.759 And then, and then I'll let you guys comment. 00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:33.680 What I say to kids or adults is stop, especially if you don't know the dog. 00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:34.079 Right. 00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:37.440 And let the dog tell you, okay, I want more. 00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:40.079 And they will if they do. 00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:40.559 Right. 00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:44.319 Or that's fine, and I've had enough. 00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:45.839 What do you guys think about that? 00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:48.319 Yeah, that we talk about that every day. 00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:51.519 I think in every consultation is consent to pet, right? 00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:56.880 Like do a couple scratches under the chin and then stop and see what happens, right? 00:26:57.039 --> 00:26:58.319 Does the dog look away? 00:26:58.480 --> 00:26:59.519 Does the dog walk away? 00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:01.519 Does the dog lean in for more? 00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:04.319 They will say yes or no for sure. 00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:06.000 Absolutely. 00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:07.359 Same same answer. 00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:08.799 Well, that's exactly what I say. 00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:11.039 But I don't think that's talked about. 00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:14.880 I think a lot of these things for the general public aren't talked about enough. 00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:17.119 And I think that there's two things. 00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:22.160 One is where the veterinarian comes in or the technician. 00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:34.480 The technician, not only specialist in behavior, and for those, thank you, but technicians in general, I think are the best and most important communicators in veterinary medicine. 00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:36.480 I support a couple of ideas. 00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:44.000 One, veterinarians actually in practice teaching puppy classes, having a technician there. 00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:45.519 I'm glad your heads are nodding. 00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:46.000 Yeah, yeah. 00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:48.960 I am trying to spread the word. 00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:49.839 Really? 00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:50.720 Preach. 00:27:50.799 --> 00:27:51.359 Let's do it. 00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:52.240 Yeah. 00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:53.759 Well, I'm trying to do that. 00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:56.960 I'm speaking at a couple of conferences coming up about this. 00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:00.000 In fact, I'm creating a PowerPoint as we speak almost. 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:00.640 Right now, yeah. 00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:08.079 Not literally right now, but that's I'm and one of the things is first of all, and this isn't in any particular order necessarily, though. 00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:10.799 If I think about it, I could probably put it in a order. 00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:13.039 Uh, technicians don't make enough money. 00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:17.680 And this is a way in which technicians will make a little bit, a little bit. 00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:24.240 Hopefully, the owner of the practice, corporate or not, will share that money with the teacher of the class. 00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:27.599 And I think also most technicians can teach a puppy class. 00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:30.000 If you like puppies, you can learn enough. 00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:36.000 Go see either Amy here speak, get educated, and you could teach a puppy class. 00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:37.599 Uh,

it isn't hard to do. 00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:47.119 The other thing is, how often does the local dog trainer come to a practice and say, Well, I'm only a mile away, let me put my card here. 00:28:47.440 --> 00:28:50.880 And you don't know the technique that that dog trainer is using. 00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:58.799 So if indeed for any dog training class, you allow that, at least audit the class. 00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:04.319 But if you're teaching the class in your practice, then you have control. 00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:06.799 You know it's positive reinforcement. 00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:14.480 Another thing that you can do that most dog trainers can't do in a park is put that dog on the cold exam table. 00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:17.359 We don't want to see cold exam tables anymore, I know. 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:20.160 But nevertheless, you can do that. 00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:29.920 You could flip the lip, you can, you know, look at the paws and give the dog a treat at the same time and wear a white coat if that veterinarian is still wearing a white coat. 00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:44.480 You can do all those things to replicate a veterinary exam, and that's incredibly important because then you have a dog that is actually, I swear this can happen, pulling you down the street. 00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:48.000 And I have a video of our own dogs doing it, pulling you down the street. 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:52.240 In fact, I think one of my arms is still longer than the other, pulling you down the street. 00:29:52.319 --> 00:30:02.720 So I've got these dogs at that time that, you know, if I didn't, you guys could and should yell at me that could walk at my side if I want them to, right? 00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:05.759 They're not they're not pulling me down the street. 00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:16.960 They swear, whenever we got within about two blocks, no matter which direction, I tried it many, many ways, because we're about walking distance a mile away from the vet clinic. 00:30:17.119 --> 00:30:23.759 So before our dogs became very, very old, we were able to walk, if I wanted to, to the vet clinic, if I wasn't so lazy. 00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:25.599 They had free parking at the time. 00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:28.880 They've moved, different ownership, different circumstances. 00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:36.160 But the point is that no matter which direction I came from, they somehow figured out, uh-oh, I'm near the clinic. 00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:42.240 And uh-oh, isn't quite the right way to put it because it's uh-oh for me, because now they're pulling me down the street. 00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:47.359 They can't, they would go through the glass door if they could, you know, until I open the door. 00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:50.720 They go right to the front desk area. 00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:57.279 In fact, once there was terrible remorse because they moved the treats from that side to that side, you know. 00:30:57.599 --> 00:31:00.319 So they knew it and loved it. 00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:03.599 It can happen with you or your clients' dogs. 00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:05.359 Why should that matter to you? 00:31:05.680 --> 00:31:08.000 Bonding the dog to the clinic is important. 00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:15.920 I suggest there's one thing that is more important bonding the client, you know, because rarely do dogs drive there on their own. 00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:16.480 That's right. 00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:19.200 So, yeah, or make the decision to come in. 00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:24.319 And now, with I just wrote about this in my blog, stevedale.tv. 00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:31.759 Um, there are more and more people that are actually saying, okay, I'm going to sacrifice to treat my pet. 00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:33.839 I'll even go into debt treating my pet. 00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:36.720 And it's a terrible thing to even have to talk about. 00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:40.160 But there are many more people that are saying, I'm just not going to the vet. 00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:41.839 I'm going to AI instead. 00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:52.960 Interestingly enough, the number of people that go to AI first then pay a price literally for doing that, because that information may not be correct. 00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:54.400 My dog is limping. 00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:54.960 Look it up. 00:31:55.039 --> 00:31:57.519 I've tried, and it gave all these answers. 00:31:57.759 --> 00:31:59.680 Lyme disease wasn't one of them. 00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:01.599 Sorry, Chat GPT. 00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:03.440 So I wrote ChatGPT back. 00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:06.400 I said, How about tick disease, specifically Lyme disease? 00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:09.519 Chat GBT wrote back, apparently you know more than I do. 00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:10.559 You're correct. 00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:12.480 That's actually what they wrote. 00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:15.039 I was doing a story on something. 00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:16.799 I don't remember what it was about. 00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:19.759 It had to do with some legislation or something, something. 00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:20.640 I'm not sure. 00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:23.039 I swear I should have screenshot this. 00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:28.160 ChatGBT wrote back when I wrote them, and I said, You forgot this. 00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:32.240 ChatGBT, I swore, wrote back, you're Steve Dale. 00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:34.640 You know more about this than I do. 00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:39.200 I should have screenshot it because no one would believe it. 00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:41.119 But it really did happen. 00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:44.240 So I have an interesting relationship with ChatGBT. 00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:44.880 Evidently. 00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:47.200 Because sometimes I do scream at them. 00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:54.480 So I want to talk a little bit more about our relationships between children and dogs. 00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:59.599 And you had said just a couple of um sentences ago about the rise in dog bites. 00:32:59.680 -->

00:33:07.680 And we know from the literature too, like you had already said, is that children in the home with that dog are more likely to have a dog bite. 00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:11.759 And we also know that those bites are very likely to be in the face and neck, right? 00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:16.559 Because children are at head height to where that dog's face and mouth are. 00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:21.119 So horrific kind of circumstances that we never want to have happen. 00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:29.920 And so, how can we, or how can teaching children to understand dogs help prevent those bites and other dangerous interactions? 00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:31.759 Like how can we keep everybody safe? 00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:33.279 I love that question. 00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:36.880 And there's I don't think much that's new there. 00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:39.599 It's number one, supervision. 00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:42.000 Active supervision. 00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:42.640 Yeah. 00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:44.720 Yeah, that's right. 00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:46.240 Can't be on your phone. 00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:47.039 Yeah. 00:33:48.319 --> 00:33:49.599 Totally correct. 00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:56.319 And how many times have you heard I know my dog would not never bite? 00:33:56.480 --> 00:33:56.799 Yeah. 00:33:57.599 --> 00:33:59.200 Bite you fill in the blank. 00:33:59.519 --> 00:33:59.599 Yeah. 00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:01.920 I say anything with a mouth can bite. 00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:02.640 Oh, nice. 00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:07.920 Oh, well, I tell him a story about my own dog that was like my Scotty, perfect angel baby. 00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:14.239 That I was like, this dog's never gonna bite a flea, let alone my child, and I let my guard down. 00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:15.119 And guess what? 00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:16.079 My son got bit. 00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:18.800 So is your son okay now? 00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:20.000 He's absolutely fine. 00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:25.360 He just got a canine tooth to the cheek when he fell on top of her when he was learning to walk. 00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:29.760 So, as a result of what you're saying, it's called cynophobia. 00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:32.000 Oh, which is something that I didn't know. 00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:33.119 It's fear of dogs. 00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:34.239 Oh, interesting. 00:34:34.400 --> 00:34:39.840 And according to the American Psychological Association, it is now at an all-time high. 00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:40.639 Wow. 00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:46.960 Now good news is if you live in Chicago, there's an organization called Rainbow Animal Assisted Therapy. 00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:55.679 And 90% of what they do is animal assisted therapy work that is incredible, going to hospitals and nursing homes and rehab facilities and all the rest. 00:34:55.840 --> 00:35:02.719 Uh, we've every dog we've had, just about literally, I think, actually, has been in a their program or a program like that. 00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:10.880 Uh, but

they have a slice of what they do where they have people come in and teach kids, reteach kids how to live with dogs. 00:35:11.039 --> 00:35:11.519 Oh wow. 00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:12.960 And not to be afraid. 00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:14.480 It's an amazing program. 00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:20.239 And unfortunately, more needed today than ever before because of these dog bite numbers. 00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:24.880 It's so number one to finish answering trying to answer your question, Dr. 00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:27.360 Learn, is adult supervision. 00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:27.920 Yes. 00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:31.760 Also, I am an advocate of this. 00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:34.079 You both have kids. 00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:47.920 So if as a toddler or younger, one of your kids were to stick their head in the oven that you have warming up, you know, but nothing in it yet, or in it, it doesn't matter. 00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:49.599 What do you do? 00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:50.639 Scream. 00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:52.480 Scream in the article, 911. 00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:54.719 No, you scream, you scream. 00:35:55.199 --> 00:36:00.960 But what if the child pulls on that cocker spaniels earlier? 00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:01.440 Right. 00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:02.079 Right. 00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:04.880 You just say, Oh, that's not good, don't do that. 00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:05.599 Right. 00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:07.440 Well, fine. 00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:11.760 But the level of intensity isn't the same. 00:36:12.079 --> 00:36:12.480 It's different. 00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:12.639 Yeah. 00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:14.079 And I think it needs to be. 00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:15.599 Yeah. 00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:23.599 Young kids, and I'm not certainly I'm not, I don't know that I'm an expert in anything, but I'm certainly not an expert in child rearing. 00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:32.400 But experts have told me that as young as less than two years, kids can understand the basic. 00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:34.159 Don't do that. 00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:38.000 At least understand the panic in mom. 00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:45.519 And we don't express that when the toddler hops on top of the Great Dane. 00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:49.119 In fact, the reverse sometimes is true. 00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:54.159 We get out the camera and say, do it again, you know, because we want to post it. 00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:56.000 Because it's so darn cute. 00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:59.119 So we have to, and the same for cats. 00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:02.800 This shouldn't be that part shouldn't be limited to dogs, by the way. 00:37:03.280 --> 00:37:05.920 Or any pet, as far as adult supervision. 00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:08.800 And it's not only about the safety of the child. 00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:19.119 I was presenting at some conference somewhere about children and pets, and a veterinary professional raised his or her hand and said, Well, you're not right. 00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:20.320 What about goldfish? 00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:21.920 They're not going to hurt the pet. 00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:25.119 The other way around, the pet's not going to hurt the child. 00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:27.679 But I said, But the child's going to hurt the pet. 00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:28.079 Yeah. 00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:30.320 You know, you knock over the goldfish bowl. 00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:30.559 Right. 00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:32.639 And that fish doesn't have much of a shot. 00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:41.840 You know, so it's not only about the safety of the child, it's also about the safety of the pet and what's fair to the pet. 00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:50.719 But at some point in time, pets, you know, you pull on that ear enough times of that cockro spaniel or whatever dog it is. 00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:56.159 And that dog may say, I've, as we talked about earlier, just may say, I've had enough. 00:37:56.400 --> 00:38:01.679 There are things that we need to do that are greatly common sense that we need to get back to. 00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:11.840 But while many, many bites happen that way, there are a whole long range of explanations for it. 00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:16.239 One of them I know is something that you guys both feel strongly about. 00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:19.599 We've seen a resurgence of shock collar use. 00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:21.440 Oh my goodness. 00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:21.920 Yeah. 00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:22.880 Right. 00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:25.039 Good for your business, I suppose. 00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:27.119 Yes, good for my business. 00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:28.400 Sadly, yes. 00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:29.840 Yeah. 00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:42.719 Uh, because people who are desperate or don't know better, or both, turn to trainers that are using them increasingly, because they go on TikTok or Instagram and see these trainers do it. 00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:45.440 And there's been that resurgence for that reason. 00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:52.159 I think more than any other reason, maybe marketing of the companies, too, but mostly I think that reason. 00:38:52.320 --> 00:39:01.840 And uh then they end up with a dog who's worse off, as you guys can can relate to, and they come to you as now a total last resort. 00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:06.239 And how often do you recommend saying use a shock collar, right? 00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:08.079 Yeah, never several times. 00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:09.360 Never, never. 00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:10.000 Yeah. 00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:14.000 So that is another reason, you know, why we're seeing an increase. 00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:18.239 We're also seeing an increase in something that is controversial to talk about. 00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:19.920 I mean, none of this is in the book. 00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:33.679 I mean, this isn't, I mean, the book is about a little kid walking through a park, encountering dog after dog after dog, and mom saying, You could pet that dog, maybe not that dog, and here's why, which is instructional and doesn't go into all this other

stuff. 00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:39.599 Like what some animal shelters, particularly some no-kill shelters and rescues, are doing now. 00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:47.119 They want to impress their donors and the general public that they don't kill and they're bored. 00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:49.679 So they will do anything to save a dog. 00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:51.760 And I'm all for saving a dog. 00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:56.639 But what they're doing to save that dog has to be done quickly by their accounts. 00:39:56.880 --> 00:40:08.559 So they hire a trainer to do it, who will often use aversive methods, particularly again the shock collar, because what you could do is you could temporarily inhibit that behavior, right? 00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:13.199 But temporarily inhibit doesn't mean forever inhibit. 00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:15.519 You're not really solving any problem. 00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:18.719 Well, you're not solving what caused the problem, right? 00:40:18.880 --> 00:40:22.159 You're inhibiting what you see as the behavior. 00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:29.199 So the dog goes back to the shelter and is now all shiny and new, gets adopted into a family, often with kids. 00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:31.440 And guess what happens? 00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:34.079 Of course, that dog will break down. 00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:41.119 I mean, whatever prompted that behavior in the first place reoccurs, and the dog bites. 00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:54.480 You know, so the other thing about dog bites that concerns me is if you're watching this and you have a dog and your dog isn't gonna bite, fine, fine. 00:40:55.280 --> 00:40:56.639 It matters to you still. 00:40:57.280 --> 00:40:57.920 Even the Dr. 00:40:58.079 --> 00:40:58.800 Pike and Dr. 00:40:58.960 --> 00:41:03.199 Learn because your insurance rates are going up. 00:41:03.440 --> 00:41:03.679 Yeah. 00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:05.199 Because of dog bites. 00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:22.960 So if you have a practice that you own or participate in, or you're a veterinarian who does what either of you do, one of the reasons there are others that insurance rates have skyrocketed, yeah, homeowners insurance, even, because we all pay in the shared. 00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:29.039 So I don't believe that a hurricane has happened ever in the history of Chicago. 00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:38.480 But when they happen in Florida and they destroy buildings and insurance down there pays for it, we pay for it up here, sure. 00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:39.039 As well. 00:41:39.199 --> 00:41:41.119 It's the shared thing, you know. 00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:46.000 So there's homeowners insurance for everybody, your clients included. 00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:53.199 Does that mean maybe they're less likely to have a dog or two dogs because two dogs cost more than one dog next time around? 00:41:53.440 --> 00:42:01.519 Also, when there is a dog bite that happens in a community and it's a golden retriever that bites, it's a dog bite in the newspaper or online. 00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:06.159 But if it's a dog with a blocky head and wide shoulders, you know what I'm going for. 00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:10.239 Yeah, that dog is called a pit bull, even though it's probably just a mixed breed dog. 00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:14.320 And that dog, then we could see breed bands happen all over again. 00:42:14.559 --> 00:42:14.880 That's right. 00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:16.239 That's now vicious dogs. 00:42:16.719 --> 00:42:29.440 Yeah, I will say, if I may brag a moment, uh, uh that I co-authored a paper for AvSAB, the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior, uh, years ago on why breed bands don't work. 00:42:29.679 --> 00:42:39.119 They were initiated with the best intent of political types in communities to improve public safety. 00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:45.679 And the thinking was really okay, these are bad dogs, we'll improve public safety if we have a breed ban and don't allow pit bulls. 00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:49.360 Well, it turns out they don't do anything for public safety. 00:42:49.599 --> 00:43:00.880 We showed that pit bulls bans have been rescinded just about everywhere in America and throughout the world, because it's been evidence has shown they don't do anything. 00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:03.679 But I'm worried that if we have dog bites continue to increase. 00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:06.320 Also, our dogs go to more places than ever before. 00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:06.639 True. 00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:14.639 You know, I you know, I took our dogs to parades to not the real, real, real loud ones. 00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:22.400 I'm talking parade isn't the right word, like muck muscular dystrophy walks or certainly walks for animal shelters, like anti-cruelty. 00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:28.320 I'm on their board of directors, has a walk every year, you know, and we would take our dogs, of course. 00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:30.719 And it's the idea is to take your dog. 00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:38.079 All of these events and others, even taking your dog to a restaurant patio may end or into a greeting card store. 00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:40.000 Did they ever do they still have those? 00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:43.119 Uh whatever stores that allow dogs, you know? 00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:50.159 And and that may end because those stores may be told, the restaurants may be told, no more dogs, because we won't insure you. 00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:59.760 It was at one time a matter of public policy and sometimes political policy, but now it may be insurers that say. 00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:00.800 Yeah, true. 00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:02.079 That no more. 00:44:02.320 --> 00:44:11.840 So there are other reasons, even for people who have nothing to do with dogs or who do and want their dogs to continue to have these privileges, why all of this matters? 00:44:12.159 --> 00:44:13.199 Yeah, it's true. 00:44:13.760 --> 00:44:18.400 And and we all talk about as like behavior professionals preserving the human animal bond. 00:44:18.559 --> 00:44:22.639

You yourself have spent decades talking about the human animal bond. 00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:31.280 What do you think happens when we teach children to see animals as individuals, as sentient beings with their own preferences, emotions, boundaries? 00:44:31.519 --> 00:44:34.159 What do you does that preserve that bond, do you think? 00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:35.840 Yes and no, actually. 00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:37.119 Surprising answer there. 00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:40.400 I wonder and I wonder how you think about this. 00:44:41.360 --> 00:44:42.320 We love our dogs. 00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:43.199 We should love our dogs. 00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:45.199 I'm glad we love our dogs more than ever before. 00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:46.960 Dogs are considered family. 00:44:47.199 --> 00:44:54.480 I have one data point, I don't remember the study, where I would do more for my dog than I would my spouse. 00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:56.079 You know, those kinds of things. 00:44:56.960 --> 00:44:58.239 I won't tell Robin. 00:44:59.119 --> 00:44:59.519 Don't. 00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:03.440 How many people share their bed with their dog or dogs now, right? 00:45:03.679 --> 00:45:03.840 Right. 00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:05.599 Or other pets, you know. 00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:08.239 So the human-animal bond has never been more intense. 00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:11.360 At one level, I think that is more than wonderful. 00:45:11.599 --> 00:45:19.199 Adoptions are up, even though shelters are inundated because the line outside shelters is longer than ever before. 00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:23.280 One reason for that, by the way, dog bites, but there are many reasons for that. 00:45:24.239 --> 00:45:26.320 On the other hand, dogs are not humans. 00:45:27.039 --> 00:45:37.840 And raising dogs or cats as humans, so we're all advocates of positive reinforcement training, but we're also advocates of training. 00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:45.199 And dogs are not going to training classes to the extent that they once did for a whole wide assortment of reasons. 00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:48.400 So I talk about this in a talk that I give. 00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:58.000 And in that talk, I have a video of a guy parachuting with his Jack Russell Terrier. 00:45:58.239 --> 00:45:58.559 Oh man. 00:45:59.119 --> 00:46:02.800 Now the Jack Russell appears happy, but I don't know. 00:46:03.039 --> 00:46:08.880 Did anyone ask that dog before the parachute jump, do you really want to do this? 00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:09.360 You know? 00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:29.199 So the dog no doubt loves being with his person, but have we actually become overbonded, giving at times too many privileges, not having rules, not having consistent rules for our dogs. 00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:35.199 Um I think sometimes the answer to that is cats too, to some extent. 00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:37.119 But I think the answer to that is yes. 00:46:37.360 --> 00:46:38.159 They're not people. 00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:38.880 Right. 00:46:39.039 --> 00:46:39.679

They're not people. 00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:46.400 And when we think of them as people, um, we treat them in ways that they don't necessarily want to be treated. 00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:49.119 Like you said, I'm I don't want to go skydiving. 00:46:50.480 --> 00:46:54.000 And or and or they don't understand, you know, and they can't. 00:46:54.400 --> 00:46:54.639 Right. 00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:57.440 So they are our best friends. 00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:01.360 I suggest they understand us better than we understand them. 00:47:01.760 --> 00:47:02.480 I would agree. 00:47:03.119 --> 00:47:06.480 But having said that, they're still not us. 00:47:07.360 --> 00:47:15.920 And in fact, it's uh amazing and just a I'm trying to think of the right word. 00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:22.880 It's it's a miracle, but that's not quite the right word, that uh we have a relationship with dogs that we do. 00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:24.719 It's because we evolved with dogs. 00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:25.519 Right, right, right. 00:47:25.760 --> 00:47:28.239 We co-evolved with them quite literally. 00:47:28.719 --> 00:47:36.320 It's an incredible thing to feel, it's an incredible thing to see your kids for both of you grow up with dogs. 00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:40.719 You know, it's not the same as growing up without. 00:47:41.599 --> 00:47:45.519 And there's so much that comes from that, right? 00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:47.519 But they are still not people. 00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:48.239 Right. 00:47:48.880 --> 00:47:49.440 That's true. 00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:54.639 So I love, we obviously love the idea of asking the dog. 00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:59.760 That is literally most of our conversation with every single appointment. 00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:00.400 That's right. 00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:01.119 Ask the dog. 00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:08.239 We love and that obviously puts responsibility on us as adults. 00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:24.320 Um when we're learning those things and when we're teaching children to encounter dogs and interact with dogs, how do you want humans, adults and child alike, to act differently when they are interacting with dogs? 00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:26.800 Yeah, so that's a great question. 00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:42.400 And that is answered in the book because you've got this little girl, Morgan, walking through with her mom, a park, a big park, where there's dogs everywhere, and encountering all different kinds of dogs and all different kinds of people. 00:48:42.559 --> 00:48:52.239 You know, one of my favorite encounters is with this old guy who just says these corny jokes and says, Go ahead and pet my dog. 00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:54.960 And the dog clearly doesn't want to be pet. 00:48:55.039 --> 00:48:57.280 And mom in the book explains why. 00:48:57.760 --> 00:49:01.519 So, yes, ask the person, can I pet your dog? 00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:07.119 That is first of all polite, but also a good place to start. 00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:15.760 But we need to pay attention and teach

our kids from a young age to what those dogs are telling us when they're dogs we don't know. 00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:19.920 But actually, the answer is somewhat the same for dogs we do know. 00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:29.840 Even the dogs in our home give them space, including somewhere to go if they don't want to be interacting with anyone in the family. 00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:43.199 You guys love your kids, but I bet on occasion, on occasion, just maybe once every two years, you want to go off into another room, or once every day, you want to go off into another room, right? 00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:45.760 And and just, okay, that's enough. 00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:47.360 Lock myself in the bathroom. 00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:48.960 Yeah, right, right, right, right. 00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:53.760 And the dog has should have that same privilege. 00:49:53.920 --> 00:50:04.320 In fact, I suggest by giving your dog that space, a space of his or her own, you can eliminate all sorts of problems right there if you allow the dog to go into that space. 00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:09.679 And that dog knows uh in this space I'm gonna be left alone. 00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:10.000 Right. 00:50:10.400 --> 00:50:15.199 So even in dogs, for dogs that we have that are our own. 00:50:15.440 --> 00:50:18.400 Now, what does this have to do with veterinary medicine? 00:50:18.559 --> 00:50:19.920 A couple things directly. 00:50:20.079 --> 00:50:26.239 First of all, if dog bites go up, I've already talked about how you literally pay a price for that. 00:50:26.480 --> 00:50:30.320 No one goes into veterinary medicine because they want to see dogs harmed. 00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:35.920 A dog that bites may land in a shelter, and from there it could be a downward spiral. 00:50:36.159 --> 00:50:43.840 So you obviously lose a client, but moreover, no one wants to see bad things happen to dogs or people, you know. 00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:46.239 So there's there's all of that. 00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:48.880 But there's more than that. 00:50:49.760 --> 00:50:55.440 Veterinary professionals, particularly technicians, can communicate dog bite prevention. 00:50:55.760 --> 00:51:05.039 And one thing to do is even offer talks periodically to the public on different things, uh, either webinars or in-person talks. 00:51:05.199 --> 00:51:16.320 I am a huge fan of that because it not only educates your clients, but bonds the clients to your practice and whether that's being done via Zoom or even in your practice. 00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:20.400 I already talked about how practices should offer puppy classes. 00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:26.159 Uh, and for that matter, I would suggest kitten classes, which is a whole different discussion. 00:51:26.639 --> 00:51:30.320 Yeah, I'm I years ago, you know this lady, Dr. 00:51:30.400 --> 00:51:33.039 Kirsty Sexel, and she was teaching with Dr. 00:51:33.119 --> 00:51:34.239 Karen Overall. 00:51:34.800 --> 00:51:36.880 Best learning experience I've ever had. 00:51:37.119 --> 00:51:42.079 At that time, uh NAVC had what was called the postgraduate institute. 00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:48.639 And you'd go and you'd intensively learn about whatever topic it was, it could be cardiac disease, whatever. 00:51:48.880 --> 00:51:54.800 And for a week, every day from pretty much nine to five, that's all they talked about was cardiac disease. 00:51:54.960 --> 00:51:59.199 Instead, I went to the one on behavior, and for some reason, Dr. 00:51:59.360 --> 00:52:04.000 Overall thought not only can Steve attend, but he can also be a speaker. 00:52:04.079 --> 00:52:05.280 So I didn't talk. 00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:06.480 Wow. 00:52:06.719 --> 00:52:21.760 Oh wow, was right because Kirsty Sexel and overall, it's like, but Kirsty was talking about kitten brain development, and she said, and this was 15 years ago, maybe, and she said, and wouldn't we do these kitty kindies in Australia? 00:52:21.840 --> 00:52:24.079 I did not do the Australian accent very well. 00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:26.000 Do not let her hear this ever. 00:52:27.679 --> 00:52:32.480 But she is brilliant in many ways, but was ahead of her time as far as this goes. 00:52:32.880 --> 00:52:34.880 And I said, These kitty what? 00:52:35.119 --> 00:52:36.639 Kitty kindies, don't you know? 00:52:36.800 --> 00:52:38.000 I said, No, I don't know. 00:52:38.239 --> 00:52:46.079 And she explained their kitten classes that would be held anywhere, but including potentially at a veterinary clinic. 00:52:46.480 --> 00:52:49.280 And I thought this was the most brilliant thing I've ever heard, you know. 00:52:49.519 --> 00:52:50.639 So I asked her more about it. 00:52:50.719 --> 00:52:53.440 I began to offer those in Chicago. 00:52:53.519 --> 00:52:55.360 And for a time I did do those. 00:52:55.599 --> 00:53:01.519 And then for a time I spoke at veterinary meetings about it, and then I spoke about it with one other lady, Dr. 00:53:01.599 --> 00:53:02.559 Sophia Yin. 00:53:02.960 --> 00:53:06.480 So she was out there speaking about it, and I was out there separately. 00:53:06.639 --> 00:53:08.639 We didn't, I don't think I ever spoke with Dr. 00:53:08.960 --> 00:53:13.920 Yin, but we spoke, we would share slides and stuff like that and share experiences, you know. 00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:17.840 The toughest thing was getting kittens to the class in the first place, right? 00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:22.559 Because they have to be in this window of eight to 15 weeks. 00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:23.039 Right. 00:53:23.599 --> 00:53:25.119 Maybe seven weeks. 00:53:25.360 --> 00:53:26.639 So they have to be weaned. 00:53:27.119 --> 00:53:30.000 But on the other hand, if they're over 15 weeks, I could tell. 00:53:30.400 --> 00:53:30.719 Yes. 00:53:30.880 --> 00:53:32.639 I could tell by the way the kittens reacted. 00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:33.199 Yeah. 00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:40.400 You know, so I could tell because you don't know sometimes because you don't know how old the kitten was when you adopted the

kitten. 00:53:40.639 --> 00:53:40.800 Right. 00:53:41.119 --> 00:53:43.360 Or people sometimes cheated just to get in. 00:53:43.440 --> 00:53:51.679 So either which way, but I was able to generally tell if the kitten was over 15 to 16 weeks of age because of the way the kitten acted. 00:53:51.840 --> 00:53:54.320 So it's hard because they have to be in this little window. 00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:59.360 They're like puppy classes in some ways, but many, many in most ways, they're not actually. 00:53:59.599 --> 00:54:05.119 So, in any which case, I'm all for veterinary practices doing that as well. 00:54:05.199 --> 00:54:07.760 How I got off on kitten classes, I don't really know. 00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:09.679 It's all right. 00:54:09.840 --> 00:54:10.079 Sorry. 00:54:10.320 --> 00:54:11.599 We see it all here. 00:54:12.079 --> 00:54:12.960 We see it all. 00:54:13.199 --> 00:54:16.159 I just want to I want to give a quick shout out to your illustrator. 00:54:16.320 --> 00:54:18.559 Um, she was amazing. 00:54:18.719 --> 00:54:18.960 Yeah. 00:54:19.199 --> 00:54:20.000 She was amazing. 00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:25.599 She did a fantastic job portraying, you know, exactly the body language that we need to um. 00:54:26.079 --> 00:54:36.480 So did you guys so if you guys are the ultimate judge, so what would happen is that she'd do an illustration, and most of the times it was right, so she must have dogs or I don't even know her. 00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:40.400 So the publisher said, you know, I'll find the illustrator, and she did. 00:54:40.480 --> 00:54:40.719 Yeah. 00:54:40.960 --> 00:54:44.320 But I've never even to this day communicated with her. 00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:46.639 I think she's gotten work as a result of this book, though. 00:54:46.719 --> 00:54:53.039 Oh god, and she deserves it because I would go back to her and say, Oh no, the tale's got to be this way or whatever. 00:54:53.199 --> 00:54:54.400 And she would do it. 00:54:54.639 --> 00:55:02.320 And uh with you guys, I hope I'm gonna figure out a way to communicate with her because if Dr. 00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:03.280 Amy and Dr. 00:55:03.440 --> 00:55:10.480 Amy say she got it right, Patricia McConnell said she got it right, a whole long list of other people, too. 00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:11.760 She's just got it right. 00:55:12.159 --> 00:55:16.239 Dodman actually said she got her, all these other people said she got it right. 00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:20.159 But that is the best compliment ever. 00:55:20.719 --> 00:55:20.960 Yeah. 00:55:21.360 --> 00:55:21.519 Yeah. 00:55:21.679 --> 00:55:23.679 She did a great fantastic job. 00:55:23.920 --> 00:55:33.679 Well, Steve, we've talked about a lot, but if you could give our hive mind just one piece of advice about helping children build safe and respectful relationships with dogs, what would it be? 00:55:34.400 --> 00:55:35.119 Oh, it's simple. 00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:36.320 Three words. 00:55:37.199 --> 00:55:38.320 You know what they are. 00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:39.519 Ask the dog. 00:55:39.760 --> 00:55:40.480 Ask the dog. 00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:41.199 Yay! 00:55:41.599 --> 00:55:42.800 Oh my god, I love that. 00:55:42.880 --> 00:55:44.000 That was such a clencher. 00:55:44.239 --> 00:55:44.960 I love that. 00:55:46.800 --> 00:55:49.119 Well, I want to move on to another fun part. 00:55:49.280 --> 00:55:55.840 You've told us so many wonderful stories that we almost don't even have to do this segment, but we love to get to know our guests in depth. 00:55:56.000 --> 00:56:05.280 And so I want you to share a fun story or something completely off topic, any kind of real-world anecdote that has happened in your life that you think our audience would enjoy. 00:56:05.599 --> 00:56:07.360 A real world anecdote. 00:56:08.079 --> 00:56:09.360 Um, hold on a second. 00:56:09.440 --> 00:56:15.760 I will think of something that is uh interesting or try to hold on one second. 00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:18.639 I will even have a prop for this anecdote. 00:56:19.119 --> 00:56:19.679 A prop. 00:56:20.639 --> 00:56:22.880 This is our best prepared guest. 00:56:23.519 --> 00:56:24.880 Two anecdotes. 00:56:25.199 --> 00:56:26.000 Can I do that? 00:56:26.159 --> 00:56:26.400 Yes. 00:56:27.199 --> 00:56:28.880 Do I get charged as twice as well? 00:56:29.199 --> 00:56:30.880 Oh, yeah, you have to pay for the second one. 00:56:31.039 --> 00:56:31.599 Yeah. 00:56:31.840 --> 00:56:35.440 Um one is a law. 00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:37.199 We've been married 38 years. 00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:38.320 We just had our anniversary. 00:56:39.280 --> 00:56:40.239 Oh, congratulations. 00:56:40.719 --> 00:56:44.719 The rule coming, and I suspect you guys might say yes to this. 00:56:44.880 --> 00:56:48.079 The rule coming from a guy is do what the wife says. 00:56:48.400 --> 00:56:49.199 Yes, yes. 00:56:49.760 --> 00:56:50.320 Figure. 00:56:51.039 --> 00:56:53.760 Uh so tonight we're seeing Ricky Martin in concert. 00:56:54.159 --> 00:56:54.960 Oh, fun! 00:56:55.920 --> 00:56:56.800 Yeah, yeah. 00:56:57.119 --> 00:56:58.159 Does that count as something? 00:56:58.480 --> 00:56:59.679 Yeah, it counts as something cool. 00:56:59.760 --> 00:56:59.920 Yeah. 00:57:00.239 --> 00:57:00.719 Super fun. 00:57:01.039 --> 00:57:08.800 One of the things that I do is I host uh two of the things I do is I host, aside from hosting, well, three of the things I do. 00:57:08.960 --> 00:57:11.440 So one, you want four? 00:57:11.679 --> 00:57:16.400 One of the things that I do is I host a radio show on WGN in Chicago about pets. 00:57:16.639 --> 00:57:22.480 And I've been doing that for I think I have to figure all this out, but I think this year will be my 25th year. 00:57:22.639 --> 00:57:22.880 Wow. 00:57:23.039 --> 00:57:24.559 Ooh, that's a big anniversary. 00:57:24.960 --> 00:57:28.400 So, oh, in radio, 25 minutes is a long time. 00:57:28.639 --> 00:57:30.079 So uh, Dr. 00:57:30.239 --> 00:57:32.159 Learn, I've got to get you on at some

point. 00:57:32.239 --> 00:57:32.480 Dr. 00:57:32.559 --> 00:57:34.320 Pike has suffered through me as a. 00:57:34.880 --> 00:57:35.360 Oh, okay. 00:57:36.559 --> 00:57:37.360 Yeah, yeah. 00:57:37.519 --> 00:57:47.519 Um, so another thing I do though, that I've been doing for several years now, forever I've been filling in at WGM because I go, I mean, I played music on the radio at one point in time, right? 00:57:47.760 --> 00:57:48.800 You name the kind of music. 00:57:48.880 --> 00:57:52.159 I played it at one point many, many, many years ago. 00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:58.719 And I've always done fill-in work and WGN radio at some point said, uh, would you like a Sunday afternoon show? 00:57:58.800 --> 00:58:00.639 But you can't do pets on that show. 00:58:00.960 --> 00:58:03.280 Just what you've done, you know, general radio. 00:58:03.519 --> 00:58:05.440 And that's what I do, a general talk show. 00:58:05.599 --> 00:58:10.000 So I interview, we have a mayoral election coming up in Chicago. 00:58:10.079 --> 00:58:12.000 So I'll interview all the mayoral candidates. 00:58:12.079 --> 00:58:17.119 I've talked to the mayor many times, I talked to other public officials at, you know, the national level. 00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:21.119 I talk to book authors, I talk to celebrities as they come in town. 00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:21.760 Oh, cool. 00:58:22.000 --> 00:58:25.039 Um, my favorite is Ruta Lee. 00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:27.280 I don't even know who that is. 00:58:27.760 --> 00:58:34.880 She was like a star way back when, and appeared in movies with people like Fred Astaire. 00:58:35.440 --> 00:58:36.559 Oh, cool. 00:58:36.880 --> 00:58:39.039 I asked her who her favorite person in the world was. 00:58:39.119 --> 00:58:40.559 She said Frank Sinatra. 00:58:40.639 --> 00:58:42.960 Oh Lucy O'Ball was her best friend. 00:58:43.360 --> 00:58:56.159 I mean, just so the stories that she tells, but the name of her book, her I'm plugging her book here, is called I think I've got this right, You've Kissed My Ass. 00:58:56.400 --> 00:58:57.039 Oh nice. 00:58:59.519 --> 00:59:05.119 Uh hey, John here, the editor and apparently the fact checker. 00:59:05.679 --> 00:59:11.599 The actual title of the book is Consider Your Ass Kissed from Britain Publishing. 00:59:11.840 --> 00:59:14.079 Available at fine booksellers everywhere. 00:59:14.559 --> 00:59:16.719 So uh check it out. 00:59:19.760 --> 00:59:22.159 And it's got lips on the front of it. 00:59:22.400 --> 00:59:26.880 And she is rather liberal in the kind of language she uses on the radio. 00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:28.159 But we love her already. 00:59:28.400 --> 00:59:31.199 She is the one guest where we have to have our hand on the button. 00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:33.039 Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. 00:59:33.360 --> 00:59:36.079 And she's, I think, God, how old is she? 00:59:36.320 --> 00:59:39.920 I think 90 something, you know, but she's sharp as can be. 00:59:40.480 --> 00:59:45.360 So another thing I do,

though, is a podcast from a restaurant. 00:59:45.679 --> 00:59:46.800 Oh, restaurant. 00:59:47.119 --> 00:59:49.679 Peterino's restaurant, which is downtown Chicago. 00:59:49.760 --> 00:59:51.280 It's a legendary restaurant. 00:59:51.519 --> 00:59:53.199 It's in the heart of the theater district. 00:59:53.280 --> 01:00:01.599 The idea of the podcast is to talk to people as they come to town to perform, to talk about the city of Chicago, to promote Chicago. 01:00:01.760 --> 01:00:05.840 So we've had a wide variety of guests on the show. 01:00:06.079 --> 01:00:12.000 And one of those guests, this is the prop, wrote this book and was in a show in Chicago. 01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:13.440 Yeah. 01:00:13.760 --> 01:00:16.000 And he was wonderful to talk to. 01:00:16.239 --> 01:00:22.960 Um, Megan Malale, his wife, was in the show at the Goodman Theater, celebrating their 100th anniversary. 01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:24.400 And super cool. 01:00:24.719 --> 01:00:25.920 Couldn't get Megan on the show. 01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:27.360 She didn't do any media. 01:00:27.519 --> 01:00:29.920 Uh, she was brilliant to watch on stage, though. 01:00:30.079 --> 01:00:30.960 Oh, sorry. 01:00:31.599 --> 01:00:32.639 What a comedian. 01:00:32.880 --> 01:00:36.559 And Nick Offerman is so good as well in this show. 01:00:36.719 --> 01:00:42.559 It just closed its run in Chicago, but I have a hunch it's going to go to Broadway as well. 01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:55.920 So, in any which case, the conversation with Nick Offerman ranged from why he will do anything for his wife, Megan Malale, to why, if the chair I'm sitting in right now breaks, it is wrong. 01:00:56.000 --> 01:00:59.360 If I hire someone to fix it, I've got to do it myself. 01:01:02.079 --> 01:01:07.840 I didn't have the courage to tell him that there's no way in the world I even understand what a hammer is. 01:01:08.000 --> 01:01:08.639 Yeah. 01:01:10.320 --> 01:01:11.920 You're hiring someone. 01:01:12.159 --> 01:01:12.719 That's right. 01:01:12.960 --> 01:01:13.280 Yes. 01:01:13.920 --> 01:01:14.719 Yes, I am. 01:01:14.960 --> 01:01:15.599 Oh, goodness. 01:01:15.920 --> 01:01:19.039 Does this count to answer your absolute action? 01:01:20.480 --> 01:01:21.360 Super fun. 01:01:21.760 --> 01:01:25.199 Well, here at the Behavior Buzz, we know you are all very busy bees. 01:01:25.440 --> 01:01:28.960 Get busy bees who live and die by the science like we do. 01:01:29.119 --> 01:01:32.000 So we'll put the references from today's show on the website. 01:01:32.159 --> 01:01:35.760 So buzz on over to the honeypot page to find those. 01:01:36.079 --> 01:01:39.679 And we want to give a great big thanks to Steve Dale. 01:01:39.840 --> 01:01:47.920 We really, really enjoyed chatting with you about the importance of consent and how to help kids and dogs coexist more peacefully. 01:01:48.079 --> 01:01:59.519 I hope, as we all do, that we continue to make progress and we see those dog bite statistics coming back down and our homeowners insurance coming back down and our youth and age rates coming back down. 01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:02.159 So that we're making progress in this relationship. 01:02:02.320 --> 01:02:05.760 And we also want to appreciate the sentience of dogs. 01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:06.320 Yeah. 01:02:06.480 --> 01:02:08.000 Thanks, Steve, for coming on. 01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:09.039 Oh my gosh. 01:02:09.119 --> 01:02:13.599 I mean, with you guys, it's just it's a privilege to be here. 01:02:14.639 --> 01:02:14.960 Sweet. 01:02:16.159 --> 01:02:18.800 We should title our book, You Kiss My Ass. 01:02:19.119 --> 01:02:20.639 Dog Kiss My Ass. 01:02:21.920 --> 01:02:23.519 I didn't mean it that way. 01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:25.840 That's so funny. 01:02:25.920 --> 01:02:26.719 I love that so much. 01:02:26.800 --> 01:02:28.559 I hope I'm feisty when I'm 90. 01:02:28.719 --> 01:02:28.960 Right? 01:02:29.199 --> 01:02:29.519 I know. 01:02:29.679 --> 01:02:30.079 You will be. 01:02:30.159 --> 01:02:30.559 You will be. 01:02:30.800 --> 01:02:31.599 I think you both will be. 01:02:31.920 --> 01:02:32.559 Yeah. 01:02:32.960 --> 01:02:35.039 And will you invite me on your podcast then? 01:02:35.199 --> 01:02:36.079 Yes, yes, of course. 01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:37.920 We'll be in our cryo chamber. 01:02:38.159 --> 01:02:40.320 PRN cryo cryo chamber at that. 01:02:41.360 --> 01:02:44.880 I think PRN needs to step up his game and put us in a restaurant. 01:02:45.199 --> 01:02:49.440 We need to do us just like this boring studio to be in a restaurant. 01:02:49.599 --> 01:02:52.880 Peterinos has the best peppermint ice cream on the planet. 01:02:53.760 --> 01:02:55.360 It's actually in my contract. 01:02:55.599 --> 01:02:58.719 That I get paid X amount of money and I get peppermint ice cream. 01:02:59.039 --> 01:02:59.360 How funny? 01:03:00.960 --> 01:03:02.400 That's fantastic. 01:03:02.480 --> 01:03:03.440 I love that. 01:03:05.760 --> 01:03:10.559 Thank you to our premium sponsor, PRN PharmaCal, the makers of Reconcile. 01:03:10.719 --> 01:03:17.599 Reconcile is an FDA-approved drug for the treatment of canine separation anxiety in conjunction with the behavior modification plan. 01:03:18.079 --> 01:03:28.159 PRN PharmaCal is committed to meeting the evolving needs of modern veterinary medicine and dedicated to developing products to strengthen the bond between pets and their people. 01:03:29.760 --> 01:03:36.079 And Hive Mind, we thank you especially because without listeners like you, we would have nothing to buzz on about. 01:03:36.159 --> 01:03:40.880 So grab a drink or a mocktail and join us next time for cocktails and conversations. 01:03:41.599 --> 01:03:43.679 Follow us on all our socials. 01:03:43.920 --> 01:03:52.400 Facebook at Behavior Buzz, Instagram at BehaviorBuzz, and our website, BehaviorBuzz.com. 01:03:52.880 --> 01:03:54.159 Be positive. 01:03:54.559 --> 01:03:55.840 Be informed. 01:03:56.079 --> 01:03:57.039 Now buzz. 01:04:00.559 --> 01:04:02.639 Okay, if you don't like it, that's fine. 01:04:06.800 --> 01:04:08.960 He's like, leave it to the professional. 01:04:09.679 --> 01:04:12.639 He's like, that was terrible, and your ears are awful. 01:04:12.800 --> 01:04:14.800 And that's why you were even recording.