Full Transcript for The truth founders need to hear | Clarity, feedback & growth | Ron Shigeta

personalities and some people absolutely handle it. Just don't like it. And I really don't think they should do that. You know, a good job, perform really well because that's what you do. And you know what, you know what you have to do. have to do, know what to do to keep going. And ⁓ there's a to that. And then you can save money and you can do very well. I think though I just really have this sort of mentality where I really kind of need to be more independent. I need to be doing something new periodically and I love meeting people with great ideas and talking about them and helping them realize it. There's just this sort of need. You know, I suppose you have something like that, right? Like, just like new ideas, meeting people and just get that constant stimulus is just so much better for me. Belinda Murray: Yeah, it's a constant. Yeah, I agree. It's a constant stimulus. I think you also highlighted a really interesting point and I'd like to drill into that if that's okay with you. You talked around the pitch deck you know, quite often and you would see this a lot, you know, there's a pitch deck, ⁓ seeking investing, ⁓ cetera. And yet it's like for me, I call it the ⁓ good shiny and PowerPoint's not even the right word anymore. ⁓ Ron Shigeta: Okay. Belinda Murray: And it's almost like, ta-da, I've got it all here. yet there's a real space missing when it comes to implementation, execution. So I feel like this comes right back to your raw possibility piece where it's like, ⁓ how come this isn't working and why aren't I getting the traction that I need to get? And yet, so then you come in and go. Ron Shigeta: Mmm. Or why do all the investors I talked to, why do they all pass? Like that's the kind of question that comes up you think your deck, everybody puts their deck out and they really think it's pretty good. But you know, yeah, there's all kinds of missing pieces. And sometimes it's tolerable and you can still get ⁓ you get a thumbs up from from the people who see the deck. Sometimes there's big missing and you just have to you have to find it and you can't always see it. ⁓ So that's kind of a big deal. In fact, Belinda Murray: Yeah. Ron Shigeta: I would say over half, maybe, well, first of all, let's put some numbers on this. Like a typical venture capitalist investor, if they're out there and they're sort of known to be an investor, they might see 300 decks a year. And if they're in a moderate size fund, they may invest in five themselves a year, five investments a year. So we're talking about five out of 300 or something like that. You know, it's like, You have basically to be investable, you kind of need to be in the top two or 3 % of all the things that person sees that year. And there's lots of reasons people are below that cutoff. Some of them are your fault and some of them aren't. But if you if the parts that are your fault are going to prevent you from ever getting funded, right, you have to be pretty good. And then you'll find your

people and then that bumps you up into the into the fundable range. And Belinda Murray: is the biggest gaps run you see in the pitch decks? you called it out, like what is the biggest? Ron Shigeta: Okay, so this is a deal, You've heard this one before, but basically, if you're experiencing you've done something a few hundred times, you get very fast at taking it in. Like a veterinarian doesn't need to look at a cat a long time. So that cat's sick or that cat's small, that cat's no problem. The basic feelings come in pretty quick. And so people are stunned when... someone can just sort of look at somebody pitch or go through a few, they'll spend 30 seconds with a deck they don't like. That will be it. And they actually took in a lot. the, no entrepreneur, especially unless you've actually gone from into entrepreneurship to being an investor and seeing all these decks, ⁓ pitching actually understands decks that well. They just haven't seen that many hundreds of decks. And so ⁓ Belinda Murray: Mm. Mm. Ron Shigeta: They're like, why did you only get 30 seconds to take, know, and you know, so there's a lot of, there's a lot of experiential issues there. The number one thing though, is the personal qualities of the pitch. The number one thing people look for is clarity of mind, right? You don't, mean, you don't want to give money to the guy who's sort of necessary. Well, you may want to, but if you had investment money, you would not invest in a guy who's sort of like. Belinda Murray: Mm. Mm. Ron Shigeta: panhandling for money on the street. You know, he's like, you know, he's talking about how, you know, the military's, you know, evil and the tax man screwed him over and his ex wife is the devil. You know, like, it's like, what's all over the place? Like, don't you have one thing? Can't you just complain about one thing? So a lot of people don't really have a clear idea of what they're doing and they can't say what it is. Like if, if your pitch takes Most people I engage, don't have an elevator pitch, right? They don't have the 30 second, three sentence pitch. That is representation that you have understood what you do well enough. I've never met anybody I couldn't create an elevator pitch for. So a lot of people say it's not possible to get an elevator pitch. like, well, it's not possible for me to wait that long to listen to you. So, you know, you mean you're not going to get in. I have, you know, there is clarity required. And so we often start working on that. ⁓ you know, if I don't really believe someone wants to do that or can do it then you know I'm not really the person to help them, you know, it's basically how it works. So that would be the number one thing that that probably gets you to 60th or 70th percentile just there just being able to say, ⁓ you know what I do is, you know what I do is I'm feeding dogs around the world, you know, I'm like, you know, it doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to have every detail in it, but just has to sort

of like be. the mission and sort of give people an idea of where you're going, right? Belinda Murray: Yeah, I think it's really important that you call that out and I think that we add layer upon layer upon layer to everything we do and every story we tell and what you're talking about here is stripping it right back and I'm a big believer in the elevator pitch and it's interesting you call it out. I did a workshop last and a master class if you like and I think it was over 100 women ⁓ and were in STEM. And essentially not one of them, ⁓ I asked who had an elevator pitch, not one of them had an elevator pitch. And it's like really big part of ⁓ personal identity, your business identity and the brand's identity. ⁓ Ron Shigeta: Yeah. Yeah, what are people gonna remember you for? I think it's gonna be the thing that you do. And if it's clear in hero's mind, right? But yeah, no, people don't. So why do you think that is though? why all these women, all these entrepreneurs, it doesn't matter if they're women, of course. You go in a room full of men, you'll have the same problem at the same experience level, right? So maybe a little more, we can talk about that. why is that so many people in the room didn't have it? ⁓ Belinda Murray: You know, I asked that question, I actually did it, because I was quite shocked. I was actually like blown away, because my background's advertising and communications. I've seen heaps of credentials over the years, heaps of pitch decks, et cetera. a lot of them just had it, honestly not thought about it. ⁓ lot of them, and I'm asking even the question now with a lot of people I'm talking to, you know, in business and entrepreneurs going, where's your, you Ron Shigeta: ⁓ yeah. Mm-hmm. Belinda Murray: identity piece. I'm calling it an identity because it is essentially, it's that elevator piece. Ron Shigeta: It's the identity for this conversation, you it's not your total self, but you're not, you gotta cut a little piece out, right? I mean, that is a new concept for a of people, for sure, yeah. Belinda Murray: and a night. Yeah you totally do. Yeah it is and a lot of people have been saying to me yeah that's the bit I'm not good at and so they're good with the numbers they're good with everything else and they Ron Shigeta: Yeah, usually they're not, right? You studied in college, like you actually went and got a job and people it's like, ⁓ Belinda, this is an interesting way to say it, but you've got to tighten this up or you used to get in feedback. So for me, a lot of people have never learned to take feedback at all, right? They just don't like to hear any negativity, which is why on a venture capital pitch, you get no feedback. really a... Belinda Murray: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ron Shigeta: If someone says like, you know, what we would have liked to have seen is a better go to market strategy, a better idea about your numbers, they're not believable, blah, blah, blah. If they had given you that list, they really, really trust you not to get mad at them for it and talk shit about them. Sorry, I don't know if this is a family podcast, you know, you're worried. I mean, like if you're in someone's face, even a little bit, there's a good chance that they will resent you for it. And nobody wants that. Belinda Murray: No, can swear we've had a bit of, we've had a bit of fight in the last couple of days. Mm. Mm. Ron Shigeta: So you have to be the kind of person who's ready for that and longing for it and basically asking for it and picking up those cues when they're not obvious because nobody's gonna, nobody's gonna say like, that was not a very good pitch. But what they will say is, well, we'll pass. It doesn't seem like the right time. And then you have to read all the reasons into that, right? And so, other people say like, hey, we have a great pitch. ⁓ loved our pitch, but we didn't get funding. Belinda Murray: Yeah. Ron Shigeta: I'm like, that never happens. It's just a matter of that kind of perspective. you have to sort of, so there's a tuning that goes on when you want to start working for yourself. Even if you're like running your own bake shop or a caterer or you're painting houses for them, you're a contractor, like you have to sort of like tune into what the customer's like and don't like and learn how to draw them in and learn how to sort of get with them. And VC it's even worse because it's even more sensitive because you're asking for like $5,000 to paint somebody's doors. You're asking for like $500,000 and then they may, there's a good chance they'll never see the money again. Like that's better, that's more complicated than asking dad for the car keys on Friday night. So people don't always remember that like, hey, this is a lot of money and people kind of want someone that they like. they understand, and is doing something that seems valuable to the investor, not just to the person who's pitching. All of those things are stages that take a while for a lot of people. Belinda Murray: Yeah, it's hard point. Yeah, I wanna go a little bit deeper into feedback because you come across as somebody who is bright, optimistic, you know, you almost like, I feel like you would give feedback, you would give it away. Ron Shigeta: Yeah. Can I talk about something, this is a great question. Can I talk about something super sensitive? Like I want to, I want to sort of like trust, let's build a trust bridge here. want to talk about women, women Yeah. Cause it's, but you got, this has got to be a safe space because that's the main thing is like, yeah. Cause if you say something someone doesn't like and then people feel offended, you know, but I'm going to do it. Cause the number one thing I do is I, Belinda Murray: No, let's do it. Ron Shigeta: I will tell people what they really need to hear. And sometimes my clients do storm off. It's only happened a few times in 10 years. the thing about it is, let's get back to the female entrepreneurs in the room. especially if

they're young women, they may never actually have, they may not actually have someone in their life who will actually push back against them on a level of, of you did a good job, you did a bad job. Like that kind of criticism, not every kind of friend will do that. Belinda Murray: Yeah. No. Ron Shigeta: If you have been an athlete or have been in advertising or had to sort of perform for something on a very high spec, then people will do that, will get that. And so it's not, you don't do that. But I think a lot of, know, if you're an engineer or you're programmer or if you're, you know, if you're out there designing things and you just sort of like, if you don't run into the people or have that experience where I need feedback and I need to hear this is not good, or I need to really Belinda Murray: 100 % Ron Shigeta: I may have to change everything about what I'm doing. That kind of professional experience is often missing. I think there's a slight chance that women get that a little less than men because men are always, at least their girlfriends tell them. I'm sorry to be so sexist, but like when guys are dating, they constantly have to be looking at themselves and saying like, what am I doing wrong? Like the women get bored, they walk away. And so it's not a huge asymmetry. anyway, in any case, everybody has to look. Belinda Murray: and I'll Ron Shigeta: themselves and say like, Hey, am I really, am I really ready to take criticism? I have had, I'll tell you a story I have had, like there was a couple guys I remember pitching. So here's a counter story, but like, you know, I'm sitting there and I'm volunteering for, for, ⁓ I'm volunteering and someone's put, put up an entrepreneur with me and I said, well, God, I'd like to help you. I'll give you some advice for free. You know, I'm a, you know, I'm public spirited and you know, The guy goes on, starts talking about all these people who come from his hometown who are successful. I'm like, well, that's interesting. It's not relevant, right? It's like, you know, I'm from Berkeley. Do you know we discovered many of the trans-uranic elements in Berkeley? Like, nobody, you don't want to hear that on your podcast. They're like, yeah, go to Wikipedia and look it up after, but if you care, which you don't, you know, like, there's no filtering there. But then I'm just waiting and waiting. He starts talking about, I don't even remember all kinds of things. Belinda Murray: Bye. Ron Shigeta: I'm literally looking at the clock and 15 minutes pass and I say, I'm sorry, it's been 15 minutes and I still don't know what you do. Has that ever happened to you, Belinda? I mean, nobody even thinks, if you're at that level, can't even imagine that someone has 15 minutes just to hear you unravel your story. Then yeah, you know, and I'm just, my whole thing is like. Belinda Murray: Yeah, it's kind of wild. Ron Shigeta: If you ever do that to an investor, your chances of getting actually heard just like plummet. So I want to get to that and talk to you about it. he took, you actually both times that's happened to me that I remember they got offended and kind of went off as like, this isn't a good fit. You know, I'm okay. I can't argue with that. You know, I'm not here to, I'm not here to actually make someone angry, but I really, if there's something you really need to hear, it's very important to that people say it. Belinda Murray: Yeah. get that, and I get that, Philly. But coming back to women, let's come back to women for a second, because feedback piece was coming to women. Are ⁓ saying to me that you don't think women get as much feedback as, say, men in terms of feedback? Because women, as a woman, I have very, like we all have this internal voice, so the internal voice is always ⁓ giving us in a way like, Ron Shigeta: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, kind of negative too sometimes for women, hear. Belinda Murray: It's negative, right? And I think it's part of the reason why there's not as many female founders, there's not as many females seeking funding, et cetera. Are you saying that we need to be giving women more feedback to help them and to enable there to be more founders and more women seeking funding? Is that what you're getting at? Like what's your... Ron Shigeta: Not really, it's kind of worse than that. first I want to inject a factoid here that actually in my experience, if I look at all the advisees, over half my companies are founded, they have a woman founder. So I'm really into that. And ⁓ trying to speak from my experience, you know what I mean? Women do need a lot of, ⁓ I myself trying, learning to sort of be the professional friend, you know, and just sort of like, Belinda Murray: amazing. I love that. Ron Shigeta: I, for more than men, I really want, I found it's really helpful to sort of put myself up there as a friend and try to make that bond. It's not always necessary for everybody, of course, but I find that that is more helpful because of some of the ways that women's psychology, their experience often goes or how they feel. And so when appropriate, you know, but I will tell you, like there's some things that happen with women that do not happen with men. And this is probably. I don't think anybody will say this, but I'm going to, guess. So let's just say this is not one thing that happened. This has happened more than once to me. I'm, you know, I basically have this, I will say, the reason I'm successful is because I'll talk to anybody and listen to anything. I, you know, I would, you know, when we were, when I was in venture capitalist, I was digging through the, the discard bin a lot of pitches. I was going to all kinds of pitch contests. Belinda Murray: Yeah, so this is a safe space piece, right? Ron Shigeta: nobody there was going to get known. I would like find a little gem and I would polish it and polish it and bring it in. You know, that was so I and I learned a lot when I talked to lot of different people. So that's in my

philosophy. Not always rewarding. And so I've had cases more than once where a female entrepreneur I don't know now necessarily super well. But you know, I mean, I don't know a lot of people that well. It's not a really intimate business usually. But you know, someone will say they want advice. I say, well, okay, well, maybe I'll maybe we can get together have some coffee sometime. And then like they're like, yes. And then I, I think ⁓ I have had them initiate something. Or I have, you know, something like, ⁓ I'm going to be in your lab today. Can I come come in and see you guys? And then they'll say yes. And I'm like, okay, and then we'll have like set up a meeting in a public place. And then I actually, one time I actually saw, I actually saw her sneak out of the room building while I was waiting the lobby for another appointment. I'm like, you don't do that. I mean, I know you may, it may feel inappropriate if it is to say, just send a business email. You know how to do this, Belinda, right? You just send a business email, like, you know, something came up and I can't meet today. That's all you have to do, right? complicated feelings. Belinda Murray: Yeah. Yeah. Ron Shigeta: I realized that there is sort of this tension and it can feel like it's too much, but there was no plan in these cases. mean, you just read the news, it's not good to date from work. I have an app. ⁓ Belinda Murray: So you're talking about these like, you're most thinking that there's these hidden agendas and there's actually not, it's just business is business. Ron Shigeta: Well, you gotta learn that. I I have, coached a lot of women and sometimes there are hidden agendas. I'm not saying it's a clean business for everybody, but guys have to, I mean, everybody's gotta navigate stupid situations that are not quite right. ⁓ for women, it can get even less not right. And I totally acknowledge that. But just standing back and looking at all other things being equal, you just don't want to cut your Belinda Murray: 100 % Yeah, totally. Ron Shigeta: cut your access back by sacrificing certain meetings. Like just, you can skip the meeting, but just like, just put it down, put everything on that professional plane, just like you want a man to do for you. And I think that you're going to do just a little better. You know what I mean? And I can't, have no statistics about how many women have these feelings or have had these experiences. And because we often have them, we're unaware of them. That's even harder to track, but you know, it doesn't happen very often, but I, we do talk when I'm working with women if it comes up that we do talk about this kind of thing. So that was a little kind of, that was the kind of thing I never asked for out of my practice. Belinda Murray: ⁓ I think it's a really good call out Ron and I think it's a good one to share with the audience because you know like there is a there is it comes back to feedback and it comes back to I call it feedback with positive intent and it's that ability to be I think it's about being open and I think it's about just you know like you say being like Ron Shigeta: Yeah, some people are anxious. Some people are anxious and it's totally fine. you'll get you'll get every getting signals cross happens all the time. Or sometimes even like there was one investor who was like having all these dinner meetings with one of my, you know, you know, one of my, one of my co advisees and she, you know, she handled like a pro she's just sort of like she got she actually had got all this feedback. She went over the deck in the pitch over and over with him. She got all the feedback and said like, Okay, we're done. You know what mean? Like, that was really Machiavellian. But you know what? That worked pretty damn well. You know, I mean, like she got she got something out of it, in addition to controlling the situation. And so I think that, you know, know, if you look at how you play that you can do you can do better. I think it's really this Belinda Murray: Yeah. agree, Ron. let's face it, it is like, and this is not me being being brubbing, it is a man's world. And you have, you know, like we have to learn how to play in this world. And I think that you might disagree with me. I do think like what you're talking about with your, one of your business partners and she played the game well. I think that it's unfortunate times that we have to. Ron Shigeta: Who's going to do better? Someone who masters that game or someone who sort of like makes a lot of errors. It's a marginal thing, but hey, everybody could use a few more percentage points, ⁓ I think. Get your RBI up, you know? Belinda Murray: No, who masters it. We've got a long way to go. Yeah, so I think it's a really good insight into it. Tell us a little bit, we've been talking for 27 minutes already, like it's been quite the free-flowing conversation. Tell us a bit more about, I've got a few questions here, and I also, I wanna get into a bit about the biohacking space and what you're seeing. ⁓ Ron Shigeta: ⁓ yeah, Mm. Belinda Murray: Let's start there actually, because it's from a science, you've got your science background. How important is the science and the heart and being conscious in the VC space as well, and in particular in the... Ron Shigeta: Well, if I get to pick my kind of consciousness, I would say it's extremely important. I would say it's very, very important. And we talked about that a little bit, like the first level of consciousness is like, what do you do? And then beyond that, there's all these sort of layers of questions that are sort of like, okay, why is that important? Like that's another good one. And a surprising number people haven't actually gone through that. And if the answer is like, it's really important to me because actually, me, I give me that like, you know, You know, like working with women is important because I was raised by a single mom. You that's not actually something I'm almost ever

brought up actually with a client. You know what I mean? I'm just like, here we are, we're doing this right now and then this is how it goes. know, like we just do ⁓ coaching. Yeah, but beyond that, are so many, I mean, basically, ⁓ I it's important that I understand the technology and sometimes we do tweak it. to improve the direction and focus on the market or the practicality of implementing it. what's really important, I spend over 50 % of my time trying to get people to sort of see themselves and understand what they're doing. That is still the number one missing thing. And nobody's gonna invest in you. ⁓ they get a hint that you're just kind of like, ⁓ dumb. Belinda Murray: I love that. No. guys. Ron Shigeta: Like a brick, you know, like if you've just sort of bricked I just didn't know like who's nobody's gonna invest that because you have to be able to think on your feet and Negotiate in conversation and so many things happen Belinda Murray: ⁓ I've always said you have to have a market your own market watch your market have you ever heard that one like I was like ⁓ I said they don't have a market or this yeah it's probably not the best language but yeah Ron Shigeta: Yeah. You know, I have to say, I have to say, I wish I heard it more often, actually, Belinda, because so one of the biggest things I work with is food technology. And that was a huge boom. And over about like eight years, ten billion dollars went into it. And I was really I had kind of I felt great about it the time because I kind of assumed that people were going to be really sort of like the level of rigor of those questions would go up and they didn't go up fast enough. Right. Belinda Murray: Yeah. Ron Shigeta: So not enough, a lot of the companies failed because they did not properly, they underestimated the market they're signed to. And in food, for instance, that one of the great powers in investing, because if you produce food and people eat it, they have an understanding ⁓ level that it's very hard to understand a drug, for instance, or a diagnostic at that level. like, I ate this cheese, it's good. It's very deep, actually. But then people would sort of, I think all the entrepreneurs ⁓ Most of entrepreneurs and lot of the investors did not understand that food is incredibly competitive and selling it is not easy. People sort of think like, oh, I'll make my Kraft macaroni and cheese. I'll put it on the shelves and people will buy it just like they buy a macaroni, Kraft macaroni. No, Kraft macaroni and cheese is a juggernaut brand that's like decades old and they know how to sell millions of boxes. You don't know anything. know, like people weren't really, people only started to understand that. after like seven years. So we're getting that point where everybody's trying to get more competitive with that and really be able to play with the actual food players. But yeah, that's a level that was so high up that a lot of people never got to it because you're working on this food and this product and after four or five years it's ready and then you said, oh, we'll just hire people to put in boxes and put a nice name on it and we'll sell it. Like, no, that does not make sales. And they found out too late. Belinda Murray: Hmm. Yeah, interesting. No. Ron Shigeta: that's them Belinda Murray: It coming up to this identity, this elevator pitch. Tell me a little bit about what are the core traits of groundbreaking teams? worked with, you said you've worked with over 140 plus groundbreaking teams. You've had six businesses yourself. What do you see as? Ron Shigeta: Yeah. All but 20 of them are dead now. I want to throw that in there. Yeah, so it's a selective few that are surviving now. Some of them are doing really well. Some of them are still sort of like moving up the ladder but slower. I think that some people get... ⁓ And the about it is there's no one thing that makes the ones that doing well. I can't, there's no single one factor there. I mean, sometimes, I mean, there's always, there's always getting really lucky. Like if you have a lot of money invested in you, your investors and your whole network are trying to help you. And if you're really good at accepting help, that can work really well, right? It's like, oh, I know you're doing this. Like, let me introduce you to the people who are Trader Joe's. Like they'll do that, but they'll only do it if you're ready. that's like a, everything's sort of got a like. That's coincidence. And that's why a lot of the companies are dead if that doesn't work out. But other people, I think the most important thing is kind of what you guys talk about here is culture. If you have this sort of learning mode and then your organization you built up, by the time you've got a product's ready for market, you've got at least 10 or 12 people. Some people have 60 or 100 people working for them at that point. have to be ready to reshape the organization into what Belinda Murray: sync up. Ron Shigeta: from a research and development startup into a product food company, for instance. And that understanding where you're coming from and where you're going and finding the right people to get that right tone and to sort of rally the troops in the right way, that's, if you think about that, that's a lot. And that's another very rare transition. know, a startup person has transitions that they have to go through. And there's... Belinda Murray: Mm. Mm. I agree. a challenge to full on. Ron Shigeta: The number one, I'll give you one guess, like what do you think, like my opinion, I have one, like what do you think the number one issue is there? What is the one number one mistake that one does when one's facing that kind of transition? Belinda Murray: when they're scaling or just in terms of when they're building out the team in terms of the transition. Ron Shigeta: Yeah, the transition to scaling. Yeah, transition to selling. Belinda Murray: I this is gonna be really, guess one of the biggest, I

think you can't have a culture without a system and you can't have a system without a culture. And I think when system is broken or you don't have a system, it can't be broken. When you're scaling, like in all my experience, like you can start off just like messy, messy, messy, messy. Ron Shigeta: I want to hear it. Hmm. Mm-hmm. Belinda Murray: chaotic, chaotic, and then it gets to a point, and I say this as an advisor to various founders and their businesses all the time, you guys need to start putting some systems in place. And they're like, we don't have time, we don't have time, then all of a sudden, the wheels start falling off culture. This person's pissed off, this person, they're bringing new people into the team. Let's also introduce now AI and machines, that is part of your culture. I this fascinating article about it yesterday in terms of... Ron Shigeta: Mm-hmm. That's right. Mm-hmm. Belinda Murray: the deficit that's been created in businesses with AI and just not thinking about that addition to the culture and the team. And for me, Ron Shigeta: That's right. Even a little shit, even like adding a new piece of software to the desktop. can be really destructive. Yeah. Belinda Murray: Yeah, like we're not, yeah. And so that's where I see the biggest, I've always had glitches. I've always in my own lived experience in scaling and also what I still see now. And then all of a sudden it's like, we need all these systems or we need like to, we need values putting into action with our cultures. ⁓ it's like, hello, you're listening now. You know, it comes back to this listening. It comes back to listening and taking the feedback. ⁓ Ron Shigeta: I was just gonna write on a post-it note and it on your desk. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Actually, I would say that was a great answer. was a relief. That's probably a better answer than mine. But how it manifests when it's not happening well is what I would say is people, especially when people are venture capital backed, is that they tend to try to buy functionality. Right? And so like, this happens, lot of companies are like, well, we're just going to have to buy our fun to salespeople to sell the food. Belinda Murray: What's your name? Hmm. Mm. Ron Shigeta: you know, and sales people come in, they're just like, you throw the product over the wall to them and like, here's what we need to sell. Okay. Just, and you're just like, just sell, just sell. You're like, they're like, well, you know, this might not be quite right. Like it's really awful. Right. And so buying, it's technical ability ⁓ or ⁓ engineering ⁓ or, you know, transport logistics or delivery or sales. Belinda Murray: Stay true! Ron Shigeta: If the founders don't really care and they try to just basically throw that responsibility at somebody, the connection will be broken because the product and the rest of the company won't be sort of like functionally working with them, the culture like you're talking about. And people don't really understand how running a fragmented company like that. That's just another way of saying what you were saying. But there was a startup that died recently and when they walked in there to... to sort of like take everything apart. know, they like over 100 salespeople and they were, this product on the shelf in almost every market, every major market in the United States, but they were losing money because the product was on the shelves because the grocery stores were paid, but nobody wanted to buy it. Hence the end of the You know, like that's a classic example of trying to buy functionality. from a position of ignorance. I even saw this guy, this venture capitalist talk the other day on a panel. He's like, every founder has to make the first sales. Because then the founder understands what this, like you can't just hire Belinda to come and like, Belinda go sell this stuff. It's a, you know, you know, it's a floor wax and a shoe and it's cake icing, you know, like, you know, like, what am I supposed to do with this? yeah. say you were in a Belinda Murray: Yeah, great. I agree. Can I add to that Ron? I think that every founder, I really love your by functionality analogy by the way. I haven't heard that one before. like it. I'm gonna borrow that if that's okay. also think that the founder has to experience ⁓ they're creating and building in their business. ⁓ minute ⁓ ⁓ you, that's my opinion is this. And again, you could challenge me or debate me on this one. I just think that ⁓ Ron Shigeta: Yeah, please. ⁓ of course. Belinda Murray: There's no such thing as shortcuts when you're originally starting something. You have to experience it all. And the minute you start just shortcutting, you're going to hit, again, you're going to hit a friction point or a block because you've taken a shortcut when actually take the time to actually like be in the mess of it all, work through like, you know, what, how do I get to the next step or the next point? Ron Shigeta: There you Belinda Murray: And then once you understand it, you understand your own ecosystem, your own business model, then bring in and get the right... Ron Shigeta: Mm-hmm. Then you can manage somebody to do the sales or whatever. Belinda Murray: So that's what I think. I just think that we're things to happen too quickly. ⁓ Ron Shigeta: I've seen that over and over and over again. Actually, that one example is just one of many where people assume like, just, you know, here's my product. You're going to make me rich now. Like, if you think about it, like there are very few employees that are going to do that. Very few. And they want a lot of money because they want to say, oh, you mean we're going to get rich. That's the only way to get some of that perform. And, know, a good salesperson like Belinda Murray or somebody, some other veteran coming along, like Belinda Murray: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Okay, wait. Ron Shigeta: If they can sell $20 million of product in the first year, they have lots

of options on what to do. And what are you going to pick? You're going to pick the product that makes the most sense, where people really want it. It's got to be all aces for a really good person to come in to pay them to sell. The sales got to be very clear to whoever's coming in. And to be honest, the founder is the only one who really is going to understand the product for a while. Belinda Murray: Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Ron Shigeta: You gotta at least explain it in a convincing way to your salesperson. Belinda Murray: Yeah, I agree. Oh my gosh, Ron, we've been talking for 40 minutes. I said to you, let's just chat for 30. This has been like one of my, know, flowiest conversations of late in terms of just bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And I was gonna ask you for some advice. However, you've given so much advice, so many words of wisdom. What would be your final share? Like, what would you like to leave? Ron Shigeta: But yeah, yeah. ⁓ wonderful. I give everybody three hour. So yeah, let's go. What's my last piece of advice? You know what? know what, actually, I'm gonna tell you, I'm actually writing a book. So I'm starting over on sort of this authorship thing. And I ⁓ at a writer's meeting, we're all just talking and we're about what it is to get an agent. like, one of the guys is sort of like, I understand intimidation, know, he was like, ⁓ these people, they're, you know, the publishers and the agents, they just wanna make money and they have to. Belinda Murray: Yeah. Ron Shigeta: You know, and they have to get the most commercial thing. They're not really understand the artists and like all this stuff like this. And I understand where that's coming from. been there, but and an entrepreneur is the same, but I had to stop him and I had to say, look, think about you're going to pitch this book agent. They can take 10 people here. They hear ⁓ hundreds hundreds of pitches and ⁓ people to them Belinda Murray: Mm. Ron Shigeta: All they want to do is talk about their book and try to get the agent to work for them on their term. You know, and if you approach somebody that you're looking at to help you, if you look at them as a human being and ask yourself, what can I do for them? You're much more likely, and you think about what you're asking for. When you're pitching even an employee, you're asking them to invest part of their life into you and what your idea. Belinda Murray: Mm. Mm. Mm. Yeah. Ron Shigeta: If you don't have that gratitude, how are they going to feel about you? like, ⁓ you're the worst boss. You're almost as bad as my last boss. You know what mean? Like, that's the best you can do. And that's another level of consciousness that some people, you know, it's everybody starts there at the bottom. You kind of like fear people above you. And that's a very natural attitude. There's nothing wrong with it. But it is a rite of passage to get through that to really be able to operate freely, right? Belinda Murray: ⁓ I love it. Yeah, so true. I love it. Yeah. Yeah, ⁓ it's so good. ⁓ my gosh, Ron, what a great conversation. I'm having all the feels today. Thank you so much. Such a bright, energetic conversation. So many takeaways from our chat. Thank you so much. And ⁓ I can't wait to read your book. Have you a work in progress title? Ron Shigeta: That's Yeah. Thanks. That was fun. I love talking to marketing people too. Do I have a good work? ⁓ my book? You know, I've never actually announced it before, but it's getting close. So the working title is NeuroParent, and the book is about parenting and neuroscience. Belinda Murray: Very cool. Ron Shigeta: See, that's my pitch. I actually got it down to one sentence. Thank you. Belinda Murray: Yeah, I love that. That's a great pitch. Yeah. Yeah, thank you. I love that. I can't wait to read it. I look to it. do we find out more about you? How do we? Yeah, where do we go? Ron Shigeta: Thank you. Wow. It feels good. Still going up. I'm on LinkedIn and I can be reached there. I'm very open to taking connections. I have ⁓ my website, iaccelerate.tech and my is Ron at iaccelerate.tech. So you can just put that there. I'm happy to talk to people. ⁓ Belinda Murray: Amazing. Thank you so much. I really do appreciate your time and wishing you a great rest of the week. Thank you. Yeah, you too. Thanks, Ron. Ron Shigeta: That was a lot of fun, so it's great to meet you, Belinda.