Full Transcript for Lizzie No & Kimaya Diggs Celebrate America's Outlaws, ep. 347

05:03.738 [SPEAKER_02]: Are we ready to talk about the sons of anarchy on B. sick full? 05:04.819 --> 05:05.520 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, always. 05:05.560 --> 05:07.542 [SPEAKER_02]: Are we ready to have that conversation? 05:08.743 --> 05:12.967 [SPEAKER_02]: Sorry, it's just the first thing that my mind goes to because when I was 23. 05:16.008 --> 05:30.738 [SPEAKER_02]: I moved to Washington, D.C. after a bad breakup and I spent the summer binge watching sons of anarchy and writing some of the first songs I would ever release, one of which was called outlaws and it's sort of about the bro trope. 05:31.634 --> 05:33.915 [SPEAKER_02]: of like babe, I gotta go fight this battle. 05:34.095 --> 05:39.858 [SPEAKER_02]: Meanwhile, his partner is like raising a child that they share or they co-own property. 05:39.898 --> 05:42.159 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, what do you mean you're gonna go battle in the streets? 05:42.519 --> 05:45.461 [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, that's how I felt about, I mean, I love the show sense of energy. 05:45.541 --> 05:47.262 [SPEAKER_08]: I feel that way when my wife goes to work. 05:47.902 --> 05:49.723 [SPEAKER_02]: How dare she let in a sense? 05:50.523 --> 05:51.124 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm just kidding. 05:52.124 --> 05:53.565 [SPEAKER_08]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. 05:53.605 --> 05:56.987 [SPEAKER_02]: I just was like, I was just so pissed at male pattern, 06:00.352 --> 06:01.853 [SPEAKER_02]: cultural product. 06:02.633 --> 06:04.974 [SPEAKER_02]: I was immersed in it and I was annoyed with it. 06:05.575 --> 06:16.200 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's where that's the first time I read about laws and that song like started my career as Lizzie know because with it I want to guitar from American songwriter. 06:17.396 --> 06:18.317 [SPEAKER_02]: And here we are today. 06:18.337 --> 06:41.776 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm happy to be re-adressing outlaws in like a more politically aware sense than I had at that time, having spent now a decade working in folk and country music and getting to know some outlaw-country singers and some, you know, assorted outlaws in real life. 06:43.478 --> 06:44.579 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a fun topic to address. 06:46.252 --> 06:59.498 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think when I think about outlaws, I think about actually the sense of energy being really resonated with me because I do think about, you know, there's this archetypal loan figure who needs nothing. 06:59.538 --> 07:11.523 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not part of society is so outside, but in the reality of my life, outlawism has been very much about building with other people, so like my grandparents on my mother side. 07:12.083 --> 07:15.206 [SPEAKER_01]: had an interracial marriage that was illegal when they got married. 07:15.726 --> 07:22.332 [SPEAKER_01]: And then my parents also were in an interracial marriage that was not legal at the time when they were born. 07:22.992 --> 07:33.221 [SPEAKER_01]: And so there's this idea to me about being in Outlaw is about creating something that is

outside of what is acceptable or 07:34.702 --> 07:50.886 [SPEAKER_01]: outside of what people can typically imagine in our collective imagination and dreaming and building, as opposed to the outlaw image of like a lone figure that rejects community rejects building things, because that figure is very much about breaking things, and to me being an outlaw is about building things that somebody never imagined. 07:51.687 --> 07:53.007 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so true and like, 07:53.992 --> 08:06.598 [SPEAKER_02]: Whenever we hear about, whenever we hear the word outlaw in country music, it is that more individualistic right off into the sense that do whatever like loyal to no one cowboy vibe. 08:07.098 --> 08:17.283 [SPEAKER_02]: But when I think of outlaws, I actually know most of them are people who are really good at being in relationship because they have to be because if the law doesn't protect you, your people have to protect you. 08:18.143 --> 08:30.868 [SPEAKER_02]: And so when I think about outlaws that I have met in person, it's people who are providing abortions in states where that is now illegal and criminally punishable. 08:31.729 --> 08:38.972 [SPEAKER_02]: People who are immigrants that a border decided were not like citizens, you know? 08:40.789 --> 09:06.089 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, and I wanted to talk about the word protectors or protection, it's it's so interesting to hear you guys talk about if you're not protected by the law and you talk about how outlaw history is never canonized but outlaws are the stewards and protectors of our own collective humanity if you could talk a little bit about like. 09:07.151 --> 09:19.766 [SPEAKER_08]: why you think those outside the law are the ones that have been repeatedly been the protectors over the course of human history and like what's the difference between them and those tasked with protection within the law? 09:21.348 --> 09:25.192 [SPEAKER_02]: I have a quick answer, but I think Kimaya has a deeper answer because she wrote that. 09:26.053 --> 09:26.794 [SPEAKER_02]: But to start, 09:27.678 --> 09:38.641 [SPEAKER_02]: Dr. Joy James has this book in pursuit of revolutionary love, which I read on Kayama last year, actually, thank God for Kayama and time to read. 09:39.341 --> 09:44.863 [SPEAKER_02]: And in this series of essays and interviews, she describes and kind of like fills in the character of 09:45.683 --> 09:58.662 [SPEAKER_02]: This figure that she calls the captive maternal, which is a black femme caretaker role like not thinking about identity as in who am I, but more identity of like what do I do. 09:59.690 --> 10:17.446 [SPEAKER_02]: Like being maternal as one of the people that takes care of the revolutionaries throughout time and you're positioning within the empire as the one most outside the law makes you uniquely capable of providing the type of support that the state could never think to provide. 10:18.166 --> 10:25.052 [SPEAKER_02]: And one of the roles of the capital maternal

is to hold the state accountable for when our children are killed. 10:26.028 --> 10:30.291 [SPEAKER_02]: and like hold the society accountable to our humanity as a collective. 10:30.992 --> 10:41.520 [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know what the why is, but that's an idea that I'm like, I think we're working out on this record and kind of in all of our work as Black women artists. 10:42.081 --> 10:44.523 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you felt that, Kimaya. 10:44.925 --> 10:56.532 [SPEAKER_01]: I also really have, I approached this when I was writing the lineer notes for the record, one thing that kept coming up to me was this linguistic notion of what you can't name, you can't imagine. 10:57.413 --> 11:00.054 [SPEAKER_01]: And that appears in all sorts of different cultures. 11:00.114 --> 11:10.681 [SPEAKER_01]: For example, like a lot of languages didn't have a word for blue for a long time or purple for a long time and referred to different shades of blue as either green or other things like that, 11:12.602 --> 11:16.425 [SPEAKER_01]: one, two, and many instead of another wider numerical system. 11:16.906 --> 11:19.448 [SPEAKER_01]: It actually changes the way that you think about time. 11:19.488 --> 11:22.010 [SPEAKER_01]: It changes the way that you think about and perceive your reality. 11:22.450 --> 11:28.075 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think the big difference between people who are outside of the protective structures. 11:28.855 --> 11:36.341 [SPEAKER_01]: are forced to develop almost without language, another framework with which to envision a different future. 11:36.761 --> 11:46.108 [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's almost like if you imagine our government, the police forces as one language, that's a language that does not know how to speak to a black mother. 11:46.168 --> 11:50.931 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a language that does not know how to speak to a disabled person or a queer person or somebody else living on the margins. 11:51.371 --> 11:54.353 [SPEAKER_01]: And so people in these communities are forced to develop 11:58.256 --> 12:01.177 [SPEAKER_01]: ways of thinking and imagining and envisioning. 12:01.217 --> 12:07.699 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think you see that in the creativity of care coalition, in the creativity of marginalized activism. 12:08.439 --> 12:15.561 [SPEAKER_01]: And so to me, again, it brings me back to that image of outlaws as being a village and, you know, a heart. 12:16.802 --> 12:23.604 [SPEAKER_08]: The cover art of this album is by Mia Kirsten and for those who haven't seen it, can you describe what it looks like and also 12:25.202 --> 12:29.984 [SPEAKER_02]: I love this painting quilt piece of art so much. 12:30.424 --> 12:34.005 [SPEAKER_02]: Mia is so true as an artist. 12:34.565 --> 12:36.666 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I love the way that she sees the world. 12:36.706 --> 12:39.187 [SPEAKER_02]: And I've loved album covers she's done in the past. 12:39.207 --> 12:43.288 [SPEAKER_02]: So I was really happy that she hand painted our album

cover. 12:43.348 --> 12:45.849 [SPEAKER_02]: That part was important when it came to this project. 12:46.029 --> 12:48.970 [SPEAKER_02]: Everything had to be made by hand in some regard. 12:49.610 --> 12:51.891 [SPEAKER_02]: The conversations that Mia and I had 12:53.402 --> 13:01.780 [SPEAKER_02]: had to do with like reconstruction and starting over because in a sense, a revolution is a starting over. 13:02.793 --> 13:17.086 [SPEAKER_02]: as much as it is like the destruction of one thing like it 1776 if we're, you know, assigned to look at that date, okay, a revolution that kind of broken old thing and made us some sort of new thing. 13:17.606 --> 13:28.936 [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to imagine what it would be like to have that opportunity now to like start a society from who's here now, like if we had a really honest reckoning with who are the people who live in this land. 13:29.797 --> 13:37.545 [SPEAKER_02]: Regardless of how they got here, we should be starting over and planting and redoing things in a more harmonious way. 13:37.905 --> 13:42.910 [SPEAKER_02]: So, this is a woman leading the people into the new world. 13:44.132 --> 13:47.635 [SPEAKER_08]: She's not writing side-saddle, I've noticed, and she's on a donkey. 13:48.476 --> 13:49.237 [SPEAKER_08]: She's on a donkey. 13:49.437 --> 13:50.538 [SPEAKER_08]: She's got her blue donkey. 13:52.363 --> 13:52.703 [SPEAKER_08]: I love it. 13:52.723 --> 13:53.744 [SPEAKER_02]: They're had to be corn. 13:53.965 --> 13:55.586 [SPEAKER_02]: They're had to be corn in this image. 13:55.606 --> 13:57.588 [SPEAKER_02]: There's so many reasons I was like me. 13:57.608 --> 13:58.529 [SPEAKER_02]: Others got to be corn. 13:58.549 --> 13:59.170 [SPEAKER_08]: Gotta be corn. 13:59.330 --> 13:59.570 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 13:59.931 --> 14:01.092 [SPEAKER_02]: Or something growing, you know. 14:01.412 --> 14:02.654 [SPEAKER_08]: Keep my dog away from that. 14:03.192 --> 14:24.886 [SPEAKER_01]: I love that there's corn in it because it also makes me think of like when we hear the sort of pilgrim's story and the Thanksgiving story there's this like legendary status put on the corn like the native people they brought corn and it was a sign that they were welcome and then from there the people who felt welcome decided to take over the entire jam piece of land. 14:25.706 --> 14:42.783 [SPEAKER_01]: And like the corn has this sort of mythical element to it that I think is almost like the seed of the American legend as it kind of exists well yes and what's funny is that like the first thing that I think of when I see this particular corn is how like 14:51.117 --> 14:56.384 [SPEAKER_02]: that sort of mono crop culture is a huge part of our American culture as well. 14:57.185 --> 14:57.486 [SPEAKER_08]: Right. 14:57.866 --> 14:58.206 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. 14:58.547 --> 15:01.951 [SPEAKER_08]: Everybody gets a huge corn cob on July 4th this year. 15:03.053 --> 15:03.794 [SPEAKER_08]: It's going to be great. 15:04.428 --> 15:05.889 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, but don't get it to us today. 15:05.909 --> 15:06.669 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm from New Jersey. 15:06.849 --> 15:08.030 [SPEAKER_02]: I love corn on the cob. 15:08.430 --> 15:09.031 [SPEAKER_02]: We say no. 15:09.411 --> 15:10.431 [SPEAKER_02]: No shade to corn. 15:11.112 --> 15:12.532 [SPEAKER_02]: Lots of shade to corporations. 15:13.133 --> 15:18.936 [SPEAKER_01]: On my birthday this year, my brother-in-law, who knows I love popcorn, gave me a 50-pound bag of popcorn kernels. 15:19.016 --> 15:20.757 [SPEAKER_08]: Wow, that's gonna last a lifetime. 15:21.377 --> 15:22.418 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 15:22.618 --> 15:30.222 [SPEAKER_05]: I climbed just above the high line, looking for skyline, some familiar ground. 15:33.144 --> 15:38.109 [SPEAKER_05]: All I can see are purple mountains, for miles around. 15:42.794 --> 15:52.884 [SPEAKER_05]: And Bear Creek stretches out before me, spilling out my story before I can begin. 15:53.824 --> 15:56.627 [SPEAKER_05]: How can I show you where I'm going? 15:56.867 --> 15:57.408 [SPEAKER_05]: If you don't, 16:14.787 --> 16:20.446 [SPEAKER_05]: Until I'm right back where I started Cry and I can't breathe 16:24.083 --> 16:28.024 [SPEAKER_08]: Lizzie, you are credited as executive producer on this project. 16:28.704 --> 16:32.445 [SPEAKER_08]: And because we're besties, I know some things. 16:33.125 --> 16:37.026 [SPEAKER_08]: There are many ups and downs, process, not to get too deep into it. 16:37.146 --> 16:44.428 [SPEAKER_08]: But can you comment on what this project has done to your confidence and how it might impact your next recording? 16:44.568 --> 16:49.769 [SPEAKER_08]: And then maybe Kamiya, can you comment on Lizzie as an executive producer? 16:52.652 --> 17:03.357 [SPEAKER_02]: This project required me to lean on my friends and comrades in a way I've never had to do professionally before. 17:04.037 --> 17:08.099 [SPEAKER_02]: We all depended on one another in every regard. 17:08.579 --> 17:18.203 [SPEAKER_02]: Every single aspect of this album was a collaboration from the way the recordings were made to the way the album art came about to the way 17:19.847 --> 17:24.571 [SPEAKER_02]: in which the business side had to make sense as well. 17:25.712 --> 17:28.295 [SPEAKER_02]: Like there's so much trust involved. 17:29.276 --> 17:37.403 [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel proud that I took everybody's trust very, very seriously from the beginning because 17:41.363 --> 18:09.659 [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted everyone to feel seen and completely hurt and not exploited in any way because we all have experiences in the music industry where the thing that makes you special and unique and different is what gets you in the room and then it's also the thing that's either not welcome or misrepresented or misunderstood or outright, you know, denigrated behind the scenes we all unfortunately many of us that are workers in this. 18:11.347 --> 18:12.808 [SPEAKER_02]: industry we've experienced that. 18:13.409 -->

18:26.019 [SPEAKER_02]: So I sort of just had a hard line from the very beginning this process has to reflect the values that we're talking about in the liner notes if we're talking about reconstruction and repaying 18:26.700 --> 18:31.642 [SPEAKER_02]: black people and remade creating land, that's what it has to look like in the process. 18:31.963 --> 18:40.407 [SPEAKER_02]: We have to have a lot of women leading people of color, especially people need to have the freedom to say exactly what they want. 18:40.907 --> 18:47.710 [SPEAKER_02]: Like we have to live these truths, you know, as if they are self-evident in the 18:52.767 --> 19:00.992 [SPEAKER_02]: It was like the most difficult and also the most empowering recording I've ever made. 19:01.213 --> 19:11.879 [SPEAKER_02]: And especially having the executive producer role doing so much of the ANR, it felt like I was more thick as thieves with my comrades than I've ever been before. 19:13.514 --> 19:24.429 [SPEAKER_01]: I would say when I first heard about this project, I didn't know yet that I would be contributing a song to it and even then I was just absolutely elated to know that it was in Lizzie's hands. 19:25.110 --> 19:29.896 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that a lot of people, especially working musicians, 19:30.897 --> 19:37.221 [SPEAKER_01]: Or, you know, any working person needs to survive and needs to just, you know, make ends meet and get through things. 19:37.941 --> 19:44.485 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's very easy in this industry in particular to constantly focus on what is in it for you. 19:44.805 --> 19:48.067 [SPEAKER_01]: Because we all need to make connections with people. 19:48.107 --> 19:49.528 [SPEAKER_01]: We all need to network in these ways. 19:49.548 --> 19:51.189 [SPEAKER_01]: We're all looking for opportunities. 19:51.569 --> 20:02.701 [SPEAKER_01]: some opportunities truly are limited and it can feel sort of like grabby sometimes and Lizzy is someone who throughout the years anywhere I go, everybody knows her for one. 20:03.522 --> 20:06.164 [SPEAKER_01]: And everybody is like I absolutely love them. 20:06.184 --> 20:07.245 [SPEAKER_01]: They're so smart. 20:07.586 --> 20:12.971 [SPEAKER_01]: They told me about this person and now we're friends and it's like Lizzy is clearly a person who is a bridge builder. 20:13.932 --> 20:19.255 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's an incredibly rare thing, I think that's like an intrinsic quality that people either have or they don't. 20:20.036 --> 20:30.422 [SPEAKER_01]: And so as soon as I knew that this project was happening, I knew that the personnel would be incredibly intentionally chosen, chosen with love, chosen with care, chosen to tell a very intentional story. 20:30.482 --> 20:35.145 [SPEAKER_01]: And it feels like a huge, huge, huge honor to be a part of it and to help tell that story. 20:35.685 --> 20:39.968 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just feel like Lizzie is one of the visionaries of our time. 20:41.729 --> 20:44.130 [SPEAKER_01]: anyone who gets to work with them is incredibly fortunate. 20:44.791 --> 20:45.151 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. 20:45.451 --> 20:45.871 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh my gosh. 20:45.911 --> 20:46.491 [SPEAKER_08]: Now do me. 20:46.631 --> 20:50.954 [SPEAKER_08]: Just give it so awesome so beautiful. 20:51.094 --> 20:54.215 [SPEAKER_02]: Please redact my tears from the pot. 20:54.255 --> 20:55.016 [SPEAKER_08]: Never. 20:55.056 --> 20:55.876 [SPEAKER_08]: Never would do that. 20:56.716 --> 20:57.297 [SPEAKER_08]: Gosh. 20:57.877 --> 20:59.318 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, do you see what I mean? 20:59.838 --> 21:01.139 [SPEAKER_02]: These people are locked in. 21:01.159 --> 21:03.120 [SPEAKER_02]: I have the most friends in the world. 21:03.300 --> 21:03.660 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. 21:05.750 --> 21:10.734 [SPEAKER_08]: you said you created a space of sacred permission, which Kimaya, beautiful writing. 21:10.934 --> 21:11.415 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you. 21:11.535 --> 21:14.617 [SPEAKER_08]: How is that space created and what makes it sacred? 21:15.238 --> 21:17.860 [SPEAKER_02]: I need to talk about Nick Rappley's house. 21:18.820 --> 21:22.143 [SPEAKER_02]: My longtime drummer and co-producer and friend, Nick. 21:23.249 --> 21:29.075 [SPEAKER_02]: lives in Indiana, which is great for many reasons. 21:29.876 --> 21:34.321 [SPEAKER_02]: First, he is living in the house that his grandmother lived in all her life. 21:34.942 --> 21:44.251 [SPEAKER_02]: She left behind a lot of her pretty much all of her original decor, his mom's Barbies, like there's it's a matriarchal past down, beautiful home. 21:45.237 --> 22:00.995 [SPEAKER_02]: Indiana is also really great if you want to pull together American artists from several corners to fly in for one of two recording days and if your theme is rural progress. 22:01.896 --> 22:03.797 [SPEAKER_02]: you should make the record out in the country. 22:04.238 --> 22:13.043 [SPEAKER_02]: So these were like the sort of divine things that came together in terms of where we recorded the album and to walk into Nick's house. 22:13.424 --> 22:14.805 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it is one of my favorite things. 22:14.825 --> 22:27.053 [SPEAKER_02]: He's one of my oldest friends and knowing that these are the same steps his grandmother and grandfather walked down that like generations of people of a family have been living in that house. 22:27.893 --> 22:43.305 [SPEAKER_02]: Once you get down to the basement, like I think we all who are close with our grandmother's and know what it feels like to have her, like give you that look of like it's time to be real, like grandma wants you to tell the truth and do your best in be your bravest self. 22:44.326 --> 22:45.507 [SPEAKER_02]: That was the energy that 22:46.544 --> 22:50.549 [SPEAKER_02]: I think both Nick and I and all of the artists brought to that to the sessions. 22:50.569 --> 22:52.131 [SPEAKER_02]: We were talking about grandma's quite a lot. 22:52.151 --> 22:53.573 [SPEAKER_08]: Real grandma's energy. 22:53.593 --> 22:54.835

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 22:55.235 --> 22:59.080 [SPEAKER_02]: If you want to talk about the revolution, you need to start with your grandmother. 23:00.582 --> 23:00.903 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 23:15.273 --> 23:41.758 [SPEAKER_03]: I want to hear somebody pray I want to hear somebody pray Down in the valley of the earth I want to hear somebody pray I want to hear somebody sing I want to hear somebody sing Down in the valley of the earth 24:02.673 --> 24:10.758 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, so here's where I want to talk about past centennial celebrations in this country. 24:10.838 --> 24:16.802 [SPEAKER_08]: So like Jill LaPore wrote this like hilarious article in the New Yorker. 24:16.842 --> 24:18.423 [SPEAKER_08]: I came out in March about 24:20.465 --> 24:44.566 [SPEAKER_08]: the 1976 celebration and I feel like and also like there's I mean these are all like a lot of articles I've read in the New Yorker about this or just like what is happening you know and I you know if it's kind of sounds like no one has prepared it's like very unorganized and like very tone deaf and like all of the past celebrations have also been like kind of 24:45.768 --> 24:51.463 [SPEAKER_08]: Very very very tone deaf so like okay, and the Centennial celebration was in 1876. 24:51.784 --> 24:53.548 [SPEAKER_08]: You guys know any of these facts 24:55.239 --> 24:55.919 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think so. 24:55.939 --> 24:56.940 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm about to find out. 24:57.300 --> 24:57.560 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay. 24:58.501 --> 25:02.123 [SPEAKER_08]: So it was a massive event that took place in Philadelphia. 25:03.024 --> 25:15.571 [SPEAKER_08]: It kind of like highlighted America's technological and industrial progress, however, like completely ignored the severe social injustices of this country. 25:15.672 --> 25:15.872 [SPEAKER_08]: Like, 25:16.612 --> 25:20.555 [SPEAKER_08]: especially like broken treaties with indigenous people. 25:21.316 --> 25:24.538 [SPEAKER_08]: The battle of little big horn was like a week before. 25:24.558 --> 25:25.338 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh my god. 25:25.358 --> 25:25.979 [SPEAKER_08]: This happened. 25:26.759 --> 25:38.808 [SPEAKER_08]: This celebration also promoted cultural stereotypes, which is so gross, largely excluded African Americans and Native Americans from the official narrative of like American freedom. 25:38.828 --> 25:41.951 [SPEAKER_02]: It's literally how they continue to do us today. 25:41.971 --> 25:42.071 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 25:43.091 --> 25:43.231 [SPEAKER_02]: And 25:46.623 --> 26:03.850 [SPEAKER_08]: So they were like promoting all of these like industrial progresses and technological progresses, however, like laborers and industrial workers were like facing heavy crackdowns and exploitation by private police forces during this era. 26:04.510 --> 26:05.590 [SPEAKER_08]: So like that's 1876. 26:05.630 --> 26:09.132 [SPEAKER_08]: That's so that's such an American classic. 26:09.232 --> 26:10.032 [SPEAKER_08]: Bad news bears. 26:10.132 --> 26:10.472 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay. 26:10.532 --> 26:12.453 [SPEAKER_02]: So like yesterday, check this out. 26:13.462 --> 26:14.143 [SPEAKER_08]: This is the other one. 26:14.163 --> 26:20.172 [SPEAKER_08]: I won't get into this one as much just because, like, we don't have all day, but the bison to you. 26:20.973 --> 26:25.019 [SPEAKER_08]: Tell Rooster Mary history all day long. 26:25.420 --> 26:26.802 [SPEAKER_08]: So the bison to annual 1976. 26:28.524 --> 26:35.572 [SPEAKER_08]: took place in the aftermath of the Vietnam War, which went so well for everything, and hang on to your house. 26:35.592 --> 26:36.693 [SPEAKER_08]: The watergate scandal. 26:37.214 --> 26:37.714 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, good. 26:37.874 --> 26:47.345 [SPEAKER_08]: And it was very heavily criticized for being shallow and exclusionary, which are like my two biggest nightmares to be known as shallow and exclusionary. 26:48.811 --> 26:58.526 [SPEAKER_08]: So now we're on the, so this, this celebration in 2026 is the semi-quins centennial, the 250th. 26:59.187 --> 27:03.994 [SPEAKER_08]: It's very like similar controversies regarding whose histories being told, of course. 27:04.755 --> 27:18.101 [SPEAKER_08]: and how like the milestone is being leveraged and capitalism has also played a huge part in this you're talking about in 1976, like it was so commercialized that it was like, oh my god, this feels disgusting. 27:18.521 --> 27:19.882 [SPEAKER_08]: So I don't know. 27:19.942 --> 27:21.083 [SPEAKER_08]: What do you guys think about? 27:21.943 --> 27:35.528 [SPEAKER_08]: these celebrations like continually leaving out marginalized and overlooked voices like, what do you think those organizers are thinking like, are they afraid and like, what are they afraid of? 27:35.948 --> 27:48.713 [SPEAKER_02]: The way that I feel about America to 50, freedom to 50, liberty to 50, whatever they are calling it, is the way that I feel about a couple that spends a massive amount of money. 27:50.348 --> 27:52.908 [SPEAKER_02]: on a full-blown wedding to renew their vows. 27:53.309 --> 27:59.950 [SPEAKER_02]: When everyone in their lives knows that they are a nightmare, they dislike each other, they don't belong together. 27:59.970 --> 28:19.493 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, 28:20.797 --> 28:23.598 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what these white people are on about. 28:24.779 --> 28:26.299 [SPEAKER_02]: We are at war with Iran. 28:27.000 --> 28:36.223 [SPEAKER_02]: We paid for and enacted a genocide and

a continuing ongoing genocide in Palestine to this day. 28:36.243 --> 28:42.406 [SPEAKER_02]: Our Black population is largely as incarcerated as we were enslaved. 28:42.766 --> 28:43.006 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 28:43.898 --> 28:45.700 [SPEAKER_02]: What are we celebrating? 28:46.720 --> 28:49.903 [SPEAKER_02]: Who has freedom, meaningfully in this country? 28:50.363 --> 28:55.467 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't even let me get to how corporations have stolen all of our time, our interests, our intimate relationships. 28:55.948 --> 28:56.248 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 28:57.369 --> 29:01.632 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't see a lot to celebrate on the nation state scale. 29:01.893 --> 29:10.340 [SPEAKER_02]: However, if a party is to be thrown, if there are to be songs sung, it's my job to do some of the song singing. 29:11.182 --> 29:11.522 [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm. 29:11.902 --> 29:15.885 [SPEAKER_02]: So some of these tracks on Outlaw's Almanac to be frank are distrax. 29:16.265 --> 29:20.907 [SPEAKER_02]: The one I live in the Freedom Road is about how we should never forgive the founding fathers for owning slaves. 29:21.848 --> 29:22.688 [SPEAKER_02]: That's what that's about. 29:23.148 --> 29:24.729 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's for America's 250th. 29:25.209 --> 29:33.274 [SPEAKER_02]: I am so happy to give this country the beautiful, artistically diverse, radical, songbook. 29:34.054 --> 29:35.575 [SPEAKER_02]: I believe that we deserve. 29:56.563 --> 29:58.106 [SPEAKER_05]: She could knock you over 31:36.545 --> 31:55.301 [SPEAKER_01]: As far as the the historical celebrations that you talked about, I'm like nothing is more American than a big cash grab and a big scam and I expect to see so much more of that in the coming weeks scam nation scam nation yes, but I think that 31:56.162 --> 32:02.127 [SPEAKER_01]: There is no, as Lizzie said, no nation state way to quote, celebrate the anniversary. 32:02.187 --> 32:05.650 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it is an important one to mark simply in the calendar. 32:05.670 --> 32:09.953 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't feel that there's any sort of programming that would make me feel good about it. 32:10.013 --> 32:20.122 [SPEAKER_01]: It'd make me feel like the story is really being told, but I think it is important to be like, okay, at this point in time, a lot of things changed for a lot of people, a lot of what is terrible about 32:20.922 --> 32:23.943 [SPEAKER_01]: American experience was written into law at that time. 32:23.963 --> 32:39.489 [SPEAKER_01]: And then also, it's important to take a moment like so many younger people don't even realize how long the colonies and the American sort of project was in the works before 1776. 32:39.989 --> 32:43.431 [SPEAKER_01]: Like many generations of people were born and died before the 32:49.733 --> 33:06.600 [SPEAKER_01]: much political turmoil back at 4th with the UK, or with England at the time, and it's important to be like, okay, this is the 250th anniversary of something, and it's important to know what

that is, but it's also important to know that a lot of what we are experiencing right now, the American legend, began long before that. 33:07.381 --> 33:10.242 [SPEAKER_02]: Can I talk about 1776 for a second, please? 33:11.082 --> 33:14.624 [SPEAKER_02]: And I could not agree more with everything that you might have to say. 33:15.064 --> 33:16.525 [SPEAKER_02]: I would like to learn everything for me. 33:17.332 --> 33:25.238 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I've had enough time now with producing this album to reflect on what exactly are we commemorating? 33:25.478 --> 33:32.783 [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think most Americans think about, I don't know, maybe most people think about Paul Revere. 33:33.684 --> 33:45.192 [SPEAKER_02]: But I think the thing that we're really commemorating this year is the signing of the Declaration of Independence, which for me is an intellectual act of asserting 33:46.323 --> 33:53.805 [SPEAKER_02]: who has personhood in the land and who is a citizen and who has a right to speak on the conditions under which everybody will live. 33:54.185 --> 34:07.209 [SPEAKER_02]: So write a document, describing the freedoms that you and all humans deserve to have and that you're willing to fight for and like leave England for while you own human beings and have them in shackles is so wild to me. 34:07.650 --> 34:13.091 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's why I have kind of an eye role response to this being the big anniversary that's celebrated 34:15.732 --> 34:23.178 [SPEAKER_02]: achievements of human innovation, we're celebrating the document that says we have the right to say who is and is not a person. 34:24.439 --> 34:40.531 [SPEAKER_01]: And it could have been almost good, like there is, yeah, there is some like audacity that I want to acknowledge about the notion of crossing this huge sea and just deciding that you're going to do your own thing, even if it's at the expense of 34:42.793 --> 34:50.720 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think about like how powerful the Declaration of Independence could have been because I'm in Massachusetts. 34:50.740 --> 35:05.874 [SPEAKER_01]: So I grew up always knowing the story of Mary Freeman who was an enslaved woman who didn't know how to read, but heard people in her household discussing the Declaration of Independence and then sued for her own freedom using the Declaration of Independence as a primary document. 35:08.877 --> 35:13.279 [SPEAKER_01]: sort of like the foundation of that moment that would have led us to a very different place. 35:13.419 --> 35:32.909 [SPEAKER_01]: Instead the fact that the document could be used to empower everyone was seen as a major threat and I think then laid the groundwork for a lot of the suppressive and oppressive structures that ensure that the United States is non-functional and non-beneficial for anyone besides white men. 35:34.653 --> 35:39.915 [SPEAKER_08]: Lizzie has answered this question before and it'll be fun to have Kimaya in on it. 35:40.195 --> 35:50.659 [SPEAKER_08]: So if case anyone forgets or needs to go back and listen to basic folks 250th episode where we break down your half-season album Lizzie. 35:51.339 --> 36:02.605 [SPEAKER_08]: you were talking about on that album and also on this compilation as an opportunity to be in conversation with fill in the blank a person, an idea. 36:03.426 --> 36:08.909 [SPEAKER_08]: So this is an opportunity to be in conversation with the American project from overlooked voices. 36:09.249 --> 36:14.512 [SPEAKER_08]: So can you briefly explain what it's like as an artist to be in conversation? 36:15.977 --> 36:22.980 [SPEAKER_08]: Hmm, and part two, what did you discover from this conversation that surprised you? 36:23.800 --> 36:35.365 [SPEAKER_01]: I had a very spooky experience writing my song for this compilation, because I did feel a lot of pressure to be in conversation and dialogue with basically everything, the entire history. 36:35.405 --> 36:41.868 [SPEAKER_01]: I have immigrants on one side of my family and civil rights fighters on the other side of my family, and I was like, I want to tell the story. 36:42.608 --> 36:43.189 [SPEAKER_01]: It was interesting. 36:43.229 --> 36:53.937 [SPEAKER_01]: My initial impulse was I want to write a song that conveys to white people how much harm they've caused and I was like, I can't, that's such a huge scale. 36:54.477 --> 37:03.324 [SPEAKER_01]: And so somebody basically recommended a meditate and ask my ancestors for help, which is really not my vibe, but I tried it because I was running out of time. 37:05.065 --> 37:05.566 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm desperate. 37:06.586 --> 37:23.979 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, I literally had tried so much other stuff, and I sat in my basement with my guitar and my little phone for voice memos and abruptly entered into conversation quite literally with an individual entity who I could not figure out who they were and I felt that they were 37:26.382 --> 37:35.770 [SPEAKER_01]: far away in time and so that the intermediary who was connecting directly with me was my mom and my mom was like relaying a story from the past. 37:35.870 --> 37:38.612 [SPEAKER_01]: I wrote the whole song in six minutes. 37:39.433 --> 37:49.260 [SPEAKER_01]: It just it came out of me faster than I could write it down and it was a fully formed story that I didn't understand what it was about until much much later. 37:50.285 --> 37:59.589 [SPEAKER_01]: And so in that way, I entered into quite literal conversation with a being or an entity or an energy or a story. 38:00.469 --> 38:04.511 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not a super spiritual person, so I'm like, I don't know, is this a ghost? 38:04.531 --> 38:05.572 [SPEAKER_01]: Was this an ancestor? 38:05.932 --> 38:09.353 [SPEAKER_01]: Was it an epigenetic memory making itself known in my body? 38:09.934 --> 38:10.394 [SPEAKER_01]: Or what? 38:10.674 --> 38:15.516 [SPEAKER_01]: But it ended up being quite a literal conversation in a way that I wasn't expecting. 38:15.676

--> 38:16.616 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's surprising. 38:16.857 --> 38:17.257 [SPEAKER_08]: We'll say. 38:18.223 --> 38:20.744 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I've never experienced anything like it. 38:21.165 --> 38:21.845 [SPEAKER_01]: It's very spooky. 38:22.545 --> 38:22.786 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. 38:23.426 --> 38:23.986 [SPEAKER_01]: Chills. 38:26.408 --> 38:27.028 [SPEAKER_01]: Redact that. 38:29.710 --> 38:31.350 [SPEAKER_08]: Is this whole interview going to be redacted? 38:32.071 --> 38:34.032 [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be one hour long bleep. 38:34.172 --> 38:36.854 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep. 38:36.914 --> 38:39.175 [SPEAKER_08]: I can have fancy make turkey noises over it. 38:42.459 --> 38:43.779 [SPEAKER_02]: Happy birthday, Francine. 38:44.039 --> 38:45.200 [SPEAKER_08]: Happy birthday, Francine. 38:46.000 --> 38:48.041 [SPEAKER_09]: There's a ride in the street. 38:49.681 --> 38:52.502 [SPEAKER_09]: This is the world that the front door. 38:53.662 --> 38:55.723 [SPEAKER_09]: He was lying at their feet. 38:57.503 --> 39:01.684 [SPEAKER_09]: We felt a change and changed, but ain't a shame. 39:01.744 --> 39:03.665 [SPEAKER_09]: How it all turned out. 39:04.445 --> 39:07.526 [SPEAKER_09]: Back then, it was a long time coming. 39:13.303 --> 39:29.190 [SPEAKER_09]: Pick on the stack of the dead till they black out the sun These white boys with money make a whole world Let the wall hit you back Blood hits you tonneye, you and me baby With a dangerous one 39:45.203 --> 39:50.406 [SPEAKER_08]: Lizzie would you like to share anything about what surprised you've in being in conversation on this album? 39:51.567 --> 39:54.769 [SPEAKER_02]: I asked a lot of the artists that contributed songs. 39:55.089 --> 40:01.032 [SPEAKER_02]: Like sure they knew it was going to be at America 250, something or other album. 40:01.633 --> 40:03.534 [SPEAKER_02]: So to narrow down the assignment a little bit. 40:04.363 --> 40:14.846 [SPEAKER_02]: I asked people if there was a song that they had written or that was important to their people or told the story of their people in this country. 40:15.026 --> 40:16.567 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, what is your people's story here? 40:17.327 --> 40:20.548 [SPEAKER_02]: And everybody had such a different response. 40:20.948 --> 40:21.348 [SPEAKER_02]: to it. 40:21.729 --> 40:36.422 [SPEAKER_02]: I think the thing that surprised me was the cohesive story that this album ended up telling when the artists really were not in consultation with one another about song selection except for the folks that happened to be in, you know, the same studio session day. 40:37.863 --> 40:44.650 [SPEAKER_02]: Like even people that sent in tracks remotely like the nevin's fox, AJ Haynes, like we all had this sense of coming 40:48.170 --> 40:52.612 [SPEAKER_02]: making sure that the songs were like really in real time and felt immediate. 40:53.133 --> 40:54.753 [SPEAKER_02]: And we're also so liberatory. 40:54.853 --> 41:01.317 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like from the beginning of the album to the end, we accomplished what. 41:02.551 --> 41:10.713 [SPEAKER_02]: I was sort of starting to choke to accomplish with half these, which is step-by-step given instructions to get free. 41:11.053 --> 41:25.077 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, if you start with the longing to hear somebody pray, it means you haven't even really gotten in touch with yourself yet or you're very lonely and far away from home. 41:26.017 --> 41:32.620 [SPEAKER_02]: So you need to like, at least, you know, let the divine know, I want to hear somebody sing. 41:33.380 --> 41:45.405 [SPEAKER_02]: Then you have to tell your story, you know, Olivia Ellen Lloyds in the Valley is a song about displacement and being a migrant worker and looking up at the stars and wondering if anything's ever going to change for you and 41:46.258 --> 42:05.653 [SPEAKER_02]: than Casey Anderson and Eric Amble have a true outlaw country song about rioting because when you come to this awareness of the ways in which things are not as they should be, your natural and correct response is to let it burn, let it burn, let the mother fuck her burn. 42:06.073 --> 42:06.954 [SPEAKER_02]: It's election day. 42:07.574 --> 42:10.816 [SPEAKER_02]: On to take this hammer, like I don't want this job, I don't want this 42:11.740 --> 42:15.543 [SPEAKER_02]: burden of having to speak for black people. 42:15.743 --> 42:17.885 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want this burden of history. 42:18.005 --> 42:20.847 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to be like, I didn't choose to be here. 42:20.928 --> 42:22.529 [SPEAKER_02]: Take this hammer, tell him I'm gone. 42:22.889 --> 42:25.411 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you have to run and get your freedom as our ancestors did. 42:26.152 --> 42:28.113 [SPEAKER_02]: Then Kapolly Long comes in with one day. 42:28.294 --> 42:33.358 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like the contemporary tale of like, when you're depending on, 42:34.949 --> 42:40.674 [SPEAKER_02]: yourself in your community for survival instead of like inherited wealth, things feel really hand to mouth. 42:41.474 --> 42:44.997 [SPEAKER_02]: And like that reality of like let's work together or things are going to get better. 42:45.117 --> 42:50.642 [SPEAKER_02]: Like it feels, it feels like you're just not even going to make it through another day. 42:50.702 --> 42:53.064 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the truth for so many American workers. 42:54.525 --> 42:57.267 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the kind of balm and antidote to that is a 43:04.531 --> 43:10.918 [SPEAKER_03]: Y'all underpins, breathing slowly, slow. 43:11.418 --> 43:13.020 [SPEAKER_08]: Gosh, that song is so beautiful. 43:13.881 --> 43:14.261 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 43:14.462 --> 43:15.383 [SPEAKER_08]: It's a show stopper. 43:34.849 --> 43:53.672 [SPEAKER_04]: Look, young, young eyes, breathing slowly Slowly, will open, beneath the sky Swing slowly 44:07.642 --> 44:24.185 [SPEAKER_04]: But you are, be still just, like the east Come to me, so... 44:36.426

--> 44:39.767 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's only, you know, side A or whatever. 44:40.247 --> 44:42.808 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like this entire album is different. 44:44.408 --> 44:59.533 [SPEAKER_02]: American artists versions of what it takes to get free and to like live as ourselves in this society. 45:01.745 --> 45:10.487 [SPEAKER_08]: You also just answered my question about the sequence of this album because it did seem very intentional. 45:10.947 --> 45:13.607 [SPEAKER_08]: And so that is the narrative of the song order. 45:14.547 --> 45:22.729 [SPEAKER_08]: But there's also this Frederick Douglass quote in the liner notes that says, I therefore leave off where I begin with hope. 45:23.849 --> 45:26.569 [SPEAKER_08]: So that got me thinking that that has to do. 45:26.649 --> 45:28.730 [SPEAKER_08]: That's that you're including that in the liner notes. 45:29.790 --> 45:35.295 [SPEAKER_08]: that's got to be in relation to the sequence of the of this album. 45:37.117 --> 45:48.707 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, when I wrote the liner notes, I I'm not sure if I'd known the final sequence at the time and then when I listened back again to the final sequence, I realized that 45:58.644 --> 46:04.151 [SPEAKER_01]: courageousness, meaning doing what you need to do in the face of fear. 46:05.840 --> 46:17.343 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think so often, especially when we discuss revolution, there are these hypotheticals, especially around like election times. 46:17.403 --> 46:18.484 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, should we vote? 46:18.744 --> 46:20.304 [SPEAKER_01]: No, we need to just burn it down. 46:20.384 --> 46:21.285 [SPEAKER_01]: Or yes, let's vote. 46:21.305 --> 46:22.785 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's do what we can in the system. 46:23.105 --> 46:24.505 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's this tension. 46:24.525 --> 46:32.528 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a lot of fear behind the notion of, or associated with the notion of burning things down and starting over. 46:33.568 --> 46:40.572 [SPEAKER_01]: And what I wanted to land on with the liner notes is that it's not just about the burning. 46:40.872 --> 46:44.734 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think about it like a forest fire in the Great West. 46:45.555 --> 46:49.177 [SPEAKER_01]: It clears the land for what needs to come. 46:49.557 --> 47:00.063 [SPEAKER_01]: And we might not be able to imagine what it is, especially if you don't live in a marginalized part of our society, it's almost impossible to imagine what comes next. 47:01.115 --> 47:04.437 [SPEAKER_01]: because it's your habitat that's being burned down. 47:04.697 --> 47:18.946 [SPEAKER_01]: But if you are someone living on the margins of society, imagining what comes next is easy, imagining what comes next is second nature and is instinct and is what allows us to survive. 47:19.027 --> 47:25.911 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I wanted to just end on that note, like it's not destruction for destruction's sake. 47:31.552 --> 47:32.012 [SPEAKER_08]: beautiful. 47:33.873 --> 47:44.098 [SPEAKER_00]: They're getting

beloved back together. 47:44.759 --> 47:46.720 [SPEAKER_00]: One more show in Kernersville. 47:48.120 --> 47:53.303 [SPEAKER_00]: Junior died and Junior came back in the same year. 47:53.563 --> 47:55.084 [SPEAKER_00]: In the end, my crew don't. 47:55.924 --> 47:58.766 [SPEAKER_00]: From a serious left knee saw on these days. 47:59.894 --> 48:21.302 [SPEAKER_00]: Keep around Nashville, there's old songs But everything won't go, so things come back again The best of things are sweeter, with a little bit of names The amount of national thinking I might call this home 48:22.310 --> 48:26.214 [SPEAKER_00]: Some things are coming back again and there has to go. 48:27.536 --> 48:31.981 [SPEAKER_08]: It kind of folds in really well to this next topic. 48:32.281 --> 48:37.146 [SPEAKER_08]: Lizzy, you say, there's this narrative that black and brown voices are contained to the past. 48:37.246 --> 48:41.651 [SPEAKER_08]: I wanted to make us contemporary to show that we exist now that our roots are alive. 48:42.372 --> 49:11.328 [SPEAKER_08]: which Lizia texted you about this before our conversation today brought to mind the there are black people in the future public art project by the artist Alicia B. Wormsley, where she placed that phrase, there are black people in the future on a billboard in Pittsburgh's East Liberty, which is experiencing some crazy gentrification where if there's poverty on one side of the street and a warby parker on the other side of the street, 49:12.989 --> 49:19.632 [SPEAKER_08]: that phrase has since made its way on to billboards in several other cities around the United States and the world. 49:20.172 --> 49:21.513 [SPEAKER_08]: There are black people in the future. 49:22.353 --> 49:24.194 [SPEAKER_08]: What do you feel when you hear that phrase? 49:24.894 --> 49:27.015 [SPEAKER_08]: And why do you think that statement is so radical? 49:35.072 --> 49:50.139 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like when this presidential administration came in, the first issue that they tackled was how can we erase black women from the history books, from the workplace, from positions of power everywhere. 49:50.239 --> 50:03.544 [SPEAKER_02]: And we saw it on every level in this country, like media censorship, professors losing their jobs, black women of every profession, being pushed out of the workplace, there is a concerted attempt 50:06.240 --> 50:15.145 [SPEAKER_02]: government to get rid of or further exploit certain people based on their identities. 50:16.346 --> 50:26.692 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's why it was so powerful to see Star Trek as a kid. 50:27.730 --> 50:31.911 [SPEAKER_02]: Because there's, you know, sorry, I'm jumping in time. 50:32.251 --> 50:41.934 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just like this American capitalist machine is not interested in black people as human beings. 50:44.154 --> 50:46.675 [SPEAKER_02]: It's useful or gone for us. 50:47.976 --> 50:53.197 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's why we have to remind one another that we are still human beings 50:57.757 --> 51:04.180 [SPEAKER_02]: grow into the next generation and like we have what it takes to survive and that the future includes us. 51:06.221 --> 51:15.525 [SPEAKER_02]: Because there's just times when it feels like to be in America is to be told that the future does not contain people that look like you. 51:16.525 --> 51:22.908 [SPEAKER_02]: The future that Elon Musk is building does not contain free autonomous gay black women. 51:23.828 --> 51:27.330 [SPEAKER_02]: So thank God we've been making our own thing 51:28.573 --> 51:36.937 [SPEAKER_02]: in every space that we inhabit, like black women are always creating some space where we and others who are loving belong. 51:37.237 --> 51:42.459 [SPEAKER_02]: That's our often our job in this world, whether we like it or not, whether we want to or not. 51:43.480 --> 51:46.261 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what it takes to survive a pocket-laptic conditions. 51:47.642 --> 51:51.884 [SPEAKER_02]: So on Octavia Butler, there are black people in the future. 51:56.978 --> 52:24.365 [SPEAKER_06]: But it's broken by what is left me I've been for a slug and bend it But what's forsaken, it has left me free Oh, and I am never alone To feel the loneliness to act like the flesh of a bone This lands bed of bones, the promise And life tends to promise to do better than me 52:32.333 --> 52:38.754 [SPEAKER_06]: Brave dance, a riddle, a greedy, delines into my sister's hair. 52:38.774 --> 52:46.215 [SPEAKER_06]: Each day, thread the needle, leave out some sugar for ghosts who aren't there. 52:46.235 --> 52:49.856 [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, and I am never alone. 52:49.876 --> 52:55.497 [SPEAKER_06]: I promise myself that this plan could be all that I need. 52:55.557 --> 53:01.038 [SPEAKER_06]: Don't let my girls deceive, the promise of life is a promise, 53:02.148 --> 53:07.031 [SPEAKER_08]: Now it's time to play a light-hearted game called is this outlaw? 53:07.051 --> 53:08.893 [SPEAKER_08]: Yes. 53:10.874 --> 53:11.735 [SPEAKER_08]: The game is this. 53:12.375 --> 53:18.439 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to cite an event, an object, or a person. 53:20.500 --> 53:22.742 [SPEAKER_08]: It's a yes or no answer. 53:23.402 --> 53:24.323 [SPEAKER_08]: I'll count to three. 53:24.663 --> 53:27.325 [SPEAKER_08]: So you have three seconds to think about, is this outlaw? 53:27.705 --> 53:28.486 [SPEAKER_08]: Are you guys ready? 53:29.326 --> 53:29.607 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 53:31.677 --> 53:32.477 [SPEAKER_08]: is this outlaw? 53:33.178 --> 53:34.518 [SPEAKER_08]: The Boston Tea Party. 53:36.019 --> 53:38.300 [SPEAKER_08]: Three, two, one. 53:38.640 --> 53:39.020 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 53:39.221 --> 53:39.581 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 53:41.061 --> 53:42.822 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying this is a Massachusetts girl. 53:43.022 --> 53:43.262 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 53:43.323 --> 53:44.043 [SPEAKER_01]: I love this game. 53:44.423 --> 53:45.343 [SPEAKER_01]: I almost said yes. 53:46.804 --> 53:51.086 [SPEAKER_08]: Is this outlaw the dress from the internet that

people didn't know the color of? 53:52.227 --> 53:53.467 [SPEAKER_08]: Three, two, one. 53:55.696 --> 54:04.301 [SPEAKER_03]: No, yes, is this outlaw? 54:05.462 --> 54:09.484 [SPEAKER_08]: Jesse Wells, three, two, one. 54:09.504 --> 54:10.805 [SPEAKER_01]: We're that close. 54:14.685 --> 54:15.605 [SPEAKER_01]: I can sense this. 54:16.326 --> 54:17.046 [SPEAKER_01]: I can sense this. 54:17.226 --> 54:17.506 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 54:18.166 --> 54:18.987 [SPEAKER_01]: We agreed to not. 54:19.387 --> 54:20.847 [SPEAKER_08]: That's okay. 54:20.867 --> 54:22.968 [SPEAKER_02]: This one I'm asking. 54:22.988 --> 54:27.130 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm asking. 54:27.610 --> 54:29.771 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm asking for a friend and the friend is me. 54:30.651 --> 54:34.973 [SPEAKER_08]: Is this outlaw pretending to be your wife when you call your insurance company? 54:35.973 --> 54:38.034 [SPEAKER_08]: Three, two, one. 54:38.634 --> 54:39.014 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 54:39.554 --> 54:40.114 [SPEAKER_08]: This is great. 54:40.134 --> 54:41.515 [SPEAKER_08]: You guys aren't agreeing on anything. 54:43.060 --> 54:47.643 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe the real outlaw shit was the stuff we didn't agree on along the way. 54:48.183 --> 54:49.164 [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, all right. 54:49.284 --> 54:51.165 [SPEAKER_08]: I have I just have 25 more. 54:53.467 --> 54:54.267 [SPEAKER_08]: Is this outlaw? 54:54.468 --> 54:55.188 [SPEAKER_08]: The Grammys. 54:55.889 --> 54:57.750 [SPEAKER_08]: Three, two, one. 54:58.590 --> 55:00.952 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't you dare include this in the recording. 55:02.773 --> 55:07.557 [SPEAKER_02]: I will be drawn in order that now will not be very outlaw. 55:09.548 --> 55:12.429 [SPEAKER_02]: But no, actually canonically, the Grammys are the law. 55:12.969 --> 55:15.709 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, okay, two more. 55:16.390 --> 55:19.410 [SPEAKER_08]: Is this outlaw stealing from the post office? 55:20.030 --> 55:21.731 [SPEAKER_08]: Three, two, one. 55:22.931 --> 55:26.652 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but I wouldn't espouse that type of outlaw behavior. 55:27.632 --> 55:28.092 [SPEAKER_08]: Interesting. 55:28.772 --> 55:29.693 [SPEAKER_08]: Outlaws can take away. 55:29.713 --> 55:31.093 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, wait, I would have changed. 55:31.253 --> 55:31.513 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 55:33.038 --> 55:33.499 [SPEAKER_02]: I agree. 55:33.919 --> 55:37.723 [SPEAKER_02]: That's not the type of outlaw I hang around, but I do know that they're out there. 55:37.823 --> 55:39.945 [SPEAKER_08]: We've got two out of two agrees on this. 55:39.985 --> 55:43.569 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like still steal from the government, but not the post office. 55:44.010 --> 55:45.031 [SPEAKER_08]: Right, several in love. 55:45.051 --> 55:46.032 [SPEAKER_02]: No, those people are hard. 55:46.052 --> 55:48.154 [SPEAKER_02]: Those people are really hard to keep us connected. 55:48.715 --> 55:51.137 [SPEAKER_02]: And there is also a far right attack on the post office. 55:51.157 --> 55:55.082 [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, shout out to the post office, actually. 55:56.030 --> 55:57.271 [SPEAKER_08]: All right, this is the last one. 55:57.692 --> 55:59.814 [SPEAKER_08]: Is this outlaw feeling yourself? 56:00.635 --> 56:03.058 [SPEAKER_08]: Three, two, one. 56:04.239 --> 56:05.440 [SPEAKER_01]: It depends when you are. 56:05.460 --> 56:07.302 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so we're so true. 56:07.403 --> 56:09.245 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, yeah, thinking, yes. 56:09.625 --> 56:13.409 [SPEAKER_01]: Certain people, if they're feeling themselves, it's offensive and I don't want to see it. 56:14.603 --> 56:16.086 [SPEAKER_01]: And everyone else, I'm down. 56:16.807 --> 56:23.597 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, talking about honestly, it's a narrow list like 99.99% of people, we deserve to feel ourselves. 56:23.918 --> 56:24.178 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 56:24.619 --> 56:28.565 [SPEAKER_02]: Lindsey Graham, if you're feeling yourself right now, go to hell. 56:29.186 --> 56:29.667 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. 56:30.019 --> 56:32.080 [SPEAKER_08]: What a wonderful place to end this interview. 56:32.321 --> 56:33.501 [SPEAKER_08]: You might have dates. 56:33.742 --> 56:34.402 [SPEAKER_08]: Lizzie, no. 56:34.422 --> 56:38.085 [SPEAKER_08]: It's just, I'm so proud of you guys. 56:38.505 --> 56:40.867 [SPEAKER_08]: And I don't really know what else to say. 56:40.887 --> 56:47.331 [SPEAKER_08]: It just seems as though this compilation is, it just seems like the actual American dream. 56:48.332 --> 56:51.134 [SPEAKER_08]: Congratulations for creating this. 56:51.334 --> 56:53.115 [SPEAKER_08]: And thank you for the great conversation. 56:54.096 --> 56:55.737 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for having us. 56:56.278 --> 56:57.939 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for your kind attention. 57:00.087 --> 57:00.287 [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. 57:01.209 --> 57:02.431 [SPEAKER_01]: And thank you for making it Lizzie. 57:03.353 --> 57:04.415 [SPEAKER_01]: MVP of the world. 57:04.696 --> 57:05.717 [SPEAKER_08]: Ah, yeah. 57:05.778 --> 57:07.180 [SPEAKER_02]: 100% Thank you, Kimaya. 57:07.260 --> 57:09.003 [SPEAKER_02]: For telling the stories, my God. 57:12.493 --> 57:15.634 [SPEAKER_07]: This episode of Basic Folk was produced by Anthony Cabrera. 57:16.075 --> 57:18.056 [SPEAKER_07]: Our music is composed by Dietrich Strauss. 57:18.236 --> 57:21.117 [SPEAKER_07]: Basic Folk is a production of the Bluegrass situation. 57:21.237 --> 57:22.938 [SPEAKER_07]: You can find all of our episodes there. 57:23.338 --> 57:30.561 [SPEAKER_07]: You can also find us by searching for Basic Folk on the Series XM app, folkalli.com or folkalli's mobile app. 57:30.721 --> 57:35.724 [SPEAKER_07]: You can also find us at Basic Folk.com or wherever you listen to podcasts. 57:36.424 --> 57:40.495 [SPEAKER_07]: If you enjoy this episode, send it to your racist uncle and tell him to be quiet. 57:41.137 --> 57:43.503 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, thanks for listening all the way to the end. 57:43.523 --> 57:46.571 [SPEAKER_07]: Dr. Ian next time, bye!