Full Transcript for Everyone Has a Friend in Joe K. Walsh, ep. 323

mandolin. 02:10.161 --> 02:19.747 [SPEAKER_01]: He ended up getting very serious about the instrument and found himself studying at Berkeley College of Music where he is now on faculty in the string department. 02:20.248 --> 02:28.093 [SPEAKER_01]: Joe, in fact, was the first mandolin student at Berkeley in a town that is now flooded with amazing mandolin players. 02:28.573 --> 02:39.066 [SPEAKER_01]: His already strong sense of community and collaboration led him to be coming a main player on the Boston scene with his string band Joy Kill Sorrow and the Gibson Brothers. 02:39.467 --> 02:46.355 [SPEAKER_01]: He now resides in Portland, Maine and plays solo as well as with Mr. Sun, led by Fiddler Darrell Anger. 02:46.896 --> 02:59.301 [SPEAKER_01]: In our conversation, we talk about taking over at Berkeley after the death of Professor John McGan, a beloved Boston Trad player who recorded with Grisman, Marco Conner, Tim O'Brien, the Boston Pops, among others. 02:59.961 --> 03:09.384 [SPEAKER_01]: Joe addresses the question of whether bringing folk music into a college setting is a catamizing folk music, or perhaps folk music academies. 03:09.825 --> 03:14.846 [SPEAKER_01]: He also gets into hot button issues like improv, simplicity, and restraint. 03:15.487 --> 03:16.087 [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, 03:16.547 --> 03:20.729 [SPEAKER_01]: He finally reveals his true feelings about the other Joe Wolch. 03:21.169 --> 03:26.772 [SPEAKER_01]: Joe's new instrumental album Trust and Love is a peaceful listen in these wild times. 03:27.373 --> 03:31.095 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm happy to know Joe and have already benefited from his friendship. 03:31.595 --> 03:37.398 [SPEAKER_01]: He and his wife gave my family a ton of baby hand me down that have proved so useful. 03:38.058 --> 03:40.079 [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone has a friend in Joe K. Walsh. 03:40.399 --> 03:43.641 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll take a listen to a song from his new solo album. 03:44.021 --> 03:52.066 [SPEAKER_01]: This is Juno what it means to miss Alaska and then we'll get to our conversation with Joe K. Walsh on Basic Folk. 04:49.359 --> 04:51.165 [SPEAKER_01]: Joe K. Walsh, welcome to Basic Folk. 04:51.225 --> 04:52.007 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for being here. 04:52.027 --> 04:52.950 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me. 04:53.150 --> 04:53.732 [SPEAKER_00]: Much appreciated. 04:54.927 --> 05:12.133 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, first of all, we exchange some emails and I apologize to over email, but I want to apologize publicly that this is the first time that we have actually like, connected and it's so dumb because we're both living in Portland, Maine and in the same world. 05:12.633 --> 05:15.654 [SPEAKER_01]: So a public apology to you, joke. 05:15.674 --> 05:16.934 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, not not even needed. 05:16.974 --> 05:18.115 [SPEAKER_00]: That's just how it goes, right? 05:18.135 --> 05:18.795 [SPEAKER_00]: In the music world. 05:19.555 --> 05:25.177 [SPEAKER_00]: that you just can go for years without connecting with people that later on makes a bunch of sense to connect with. 05:25.997 --> 05:26.857 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, totally. 05:27.077 --> 05:28.237 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm glad we're here. 05:28.758 --> 05:30.738 [SPEAKER_01]: You're actually not originally from Maine. 05:30.858 --> 05:33.239 [SPEAKER_01]: You're originally from Duluth, Minnesota. 05:33.859 --> 05:34.619 [SPEAKER_01]: You grew up there. 05:34.639 --> 05:35.019 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 05:35.059 --> 05:35.379 [SPEAKER_00]: Correct. 05:35.419 --> 05:35.619 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 05:35.739 --> 05:36.840 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 05:37.040 --> 05:40.821 [SPEAKER_01]: What did music look like in your family growing up like what? 05:42.558 --> 05:53.003 [SPEAKER_01]: music was being listened to how are you listening to music who and where were the people performing music and like what was your initial level of interest? 05:53.804 --> 05:54.784 [SPEAKER_01]: Like little Joe. 05:54.804 --> 05:57.065 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what my dad was a good singer. 05:57.125 --> 06:06.310 [SPEAKER_00]: He was saying around the house just like doing the dishes and so it's just music was part of life and then didn't feel like a disconnect where you had to go somewhere else and that was kind of a beautiful thing. 06:07.210 --> 06:10.112 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we started going to see like John Gorka and 06:11.434 --> 06:31.282 [SPEAKER_00]: a great brown and vanskilbert you know the like what I think of as the folkies circuit and I really love those things and I love those people and those were really special concerts in some ways it feels like like a Midwestier thing more so than yeah sometimes I find out here out in Maine but oh really what do you think the difference is 06:32.286 --> 06:33.787 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I just, I don't know. 06:35.008 --> 06:49.795 [SPEAKER_00]: Just, it felt like there was like the folk, in the, every morning on Minnesota Public Radio, there was like a dedicated time for folk music and just like the whole state radio station and just felt like it was just a little bit more highlighted in the culture there. 06:51.956 --> 07:02.424 [SPEAKER_01]: I will say that Boston has really changed a lot over the last two decades that I think you showed up around the early os. 07:03.444 --> 07:09.909 [SPEAKER_01]: And that was kind of like the tail end of the glory days of folk radio in Boston. 07:11.835 --> 07:15.419 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you've heard tale of WUMB. 07:15.619 --> 07:20.804 [SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned Boston's radio station was formerly like all folk music and WERS. 07:21.685 --> 07:32.716 [SPEAKER_01]: Emerson station had the coffee house on and that had been on for like two decades of just playing folk music in like basically during morning drive Monday through Friday. 07:34.635 --> 07:37.016 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, it sounds actually you know a joke to me. 07:37.056 --> 07:39.857 [SPEAKER_01]: It sounds more parallel, but I bet you're right. 07:40.037 --> 07:42.558 [SPEAKER_01]:

I bet you're right in some ways about that. 07:42.638 --> 07:44.919 [SPEAKER_01]: Does John Gork doesn't John Gork live in Maine? 07:44.939 --> 07:47.620 [SPEAKER_00]: I think he lives in Minnesota or he did for a while. 07:49.621 --> 07:50.201 [SPEAKER_01]: Does he live in here? 07:51.021 --> 07:51.742 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought he did. 07:51.762 --> 07:52.842 [SPEAKER_01]: I might be wrong. 07:53.242 --> 08:00.325 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't know if I'm not usually one to confuse Maine and Minnesota, but you never know. 08:00.705 --> 08:02.706 [SPEAKER_00]: They both claim Paul Bungin. 08:06.221 --> 08:07.182 [SPEAKER_01]: That's ridiculous. 08:07.302 --> 08:08.423 [SPEAKER_01]: What does main thinking? 08:11.226 --> 08:17.591 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyways, we're going to have to John Gorka if you're listening, please call in and let us know what state you live in. 08:17.611 --> 08:18.772 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 08:21.777 --> 08:29.403 [SPEAKER_01]: You have a very strong sense of community and collaboration in your professional music life as it stands. 08:29.803 --> 08:35.767 [SPEAKER_01]: How do you think your experience growing up contributed to you gravitating towards those musical attributes? 08:36.928 --> 08:38.089 [SPEAKER_00]: That's an interesting question. 08:38.629 --> 08:47.876 [SPEAKER_00]: I hadn't thought about it, but we grew up being part of community theater and going to a lot of protests and my folks were very driven by like, 08:49.022 --> 08:53.486 [SPEAKER_00]: just being part of the community in lots and lots of different ways, so it just feels like a natural part of life. 08:53.586 --> 08:54.787 [SPEAKER_01]: Your parents are radical. 08:54.967 --> 08:56.588 [SPEAKER_00]: They're awesome, totally amazing people. 08:57.409 --> 08:59.290 [SPEAKER_01]: What kind of protests were you guys hitting up? 09:01.212 --> 09:16.504 [SPEAKER_00]: Lots of, I remember protesting the Catholic Cathedral when they, when the first Iraq war started, and with the sign they said, who would Jesus bomb, and somebody went in and got the priest and kicked us off of the property? 09:17.945 --> 09:21.188 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that makes business a pleasure, I guess. 09:25.151 --> 09:28.293 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess it just felt like that's a normal part of life. 09:28.353 --> 09:33.518 [SPEAKER_00]: My folks are just so, you know, potlux and just looking out for each other. 09:33.538 --> 09:39.643 [SPEAKER_00]: And that has been a big part of trying to figure out what music is going to be in my life. 09:39.703 --> 09:46.768 [SPEAKER_00]: And not just as an offering music, but like what is music for me and within my community and what can it do? 09:47.789 --> 10:08.724 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, music like I think a lot of musicians maybe struggle with a question of like, is music just something that I enjoy or is it something that goes beyond just my my my my enjoyment my pleasure and and I look I'm looking for ways to try and figure out what I can do with music

that engages my community. 10:08.784 --> 10:12.167 [SPEAKER_00]: It isn't just about you know, advancing me. 10:13.232 --> 10:13.452 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 10:13.772 --> 10:15.773 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's bigger than you. 10:16.233 --> 10:16.773 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. 10:16.793 --> 10:20.774 [SPEAKER_01]: Sounds like a good question for all aspects of life, really. 10:21.214 --> 10:21.614 [SPEAKER_00]: Totally. 10:21.634 --> 10:22.374 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 10:22.674 --> 10:24.235 [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me more about these potlucks. 10:26.035 --> 10:27.816 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't know. 10:27.836 --> 10:29.596 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just like a lot of funky people in the Midwest. 10:29.616 --> 10:31.876 [SPEAKER_00]: I think like, I missed the Midwest actually. 10:31.896 --> 10:32.297 [SPEAKER_00]: And I love it. 10:32.317 --> 10:33.697 [SPEAKER_00]: I have your main, main, great. 10:34.017 --> 10:37.778 [SPEAKER_00]: But I just, there was this nice, like, a lot of people who were just doing creative things. 10:38.058 --> 10:41.279 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think of the Midwest as not having to be patterned on the back. 10:41.359 --> 10:42.019 [SPEAKER_00]: And it just is. 10:42.679 --> 10:43.320 [SPEAKER_00]: interesting. 10:43.821 --> 10:45.724 [SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't need accolades. 10:46.325 --> 10:49.930 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just that you find these fluffy folks all over the place and that's enough. 10:50.872 --> 10:51.753 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally. 10:53.427 --> 10:57.109 [SPEAKER_01]: Your first instrument was, was it guitar or something else? 10:57.410 --> 11:16.661 [SPEAKER_00]: The way back in the day there was the piano in my bedroom and that was kind of a beautiful way to just be given space to make music like make noise and that's not a problem in fine melodies and that's like a nice unstructured way to kind of navigate a relationship with music. 11:17.447 --> 11:18.688 [SPEAKER_01]: Like a real piano. 11:18.948 --> 11:19.228 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 11:20.049 --> 11:21.650 [SPEAKER_01]: What kind of piano we're talking about here? 11:21.670 --> 11:22.630 [SPEAKER_01]: This is unusual. 11:23.711 --> 11:34.138 [SPEAKER_00]: Like a stand, like a upright one with, you know, this might be sacred, but they let me write the names of the notes on the keys and that kind of thing. 11:34.158 --> 11:35.779 [SPEAKER_00]: So it was worth it for the wear. 11:36.279 --> 11:39.201 [SPEAKER_01]: We put a piano in a child's bedroom, like all bets are off. 11:39.221 --> 11:40.201 [SPEAKER_00]: That's fair, you're right. 11:40.301 --> 11:43.083 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so you're on the piano. 11:45.527 --> 11:47.748 [SPEAKER_01]: you eventually, so when did you get to the guitar? 11:48.208 --> 11:53.610 [SPEAKER_00]: It was like in high school, there was like, I don't think I realized how strange it was, but I was learning a bunch of oddity to Franco's songs. 11:53.670 --> 11:59.872 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you know, like, learning to sing them, but like, and then people

would be like, yeah, that's your, you're not a woman. 11:59.892 --> 12:01.733 [SPEAKER_00]: You shouldn't be singing this song or that kind of thing. 12:01.753 --> 12:02.873 [SPEAKER_00]: What the fuck, really? 12:03.193 --> 12:09.055 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, some of them, I don't know, like, there's, like, those people need to stop what they're saying. 12:09.376 --> 12:09.796 [SPEAKER_00]: That's fair. 12:10.736 --> 12:13.197 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, also she's like an amazing guitar player. 12:13.277 --> 12:14.378 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, she's totally awesome. 12:14.598 --> 12:14.838 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 12:15.158 --> 12:22.082 [SPEAKER_01]: So you decided you're like the first person I'm going to learn on guitar is like one of the most complex acoustic guitar players out there. 12:22.823 --> 12:24.484 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, right, exactly. 12:24.724 --> 12:29.846 [SPEAKER_00]: And like, Leo Kotki and that kind of stuff, you're like, it's just, I guess I have the attitude like, it's normal. 12:29.866 --> 12:34.147 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, she does have like a very like Leo Kotki and her have that kind of same vibe. 12:34.387 --> 12:36.288 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like very intricate right hand stuff. 12:36.728 --> 12:36.968 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 12:37.428 --> 12:40.650 [SPEAKER_00]: And it just feels like, well, clearly somebody's doing it. 12:40.750 --> 12:41.370 [SPEAKER_00]: It's doable. 12:41.390 --> 12:42.870 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's figure it out. 12:43.831 --> 12:46.752 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to go back to those people who said you shouldn't be learning. 12:46.772 --> 12:48.432 [SPEAKER_01]: I need to Franco songs as a woman. 12:48.472 --> 12:49.513 [SPEAKER_01]: How did that make you feel? 12:50.895 --> 12:58.617 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess I just, you know, it's like one of those situations where you're like, oh, I never thought about it that and then you feel stupid for not having thought about it that way. 12:59.678 --> 13:02.458 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think it's great that you didn't think about it that way. 13:03.259 --> 13:03.939 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, maybe so. 13:03.959 --> 13:05.499 [SPEAKER_00]: I always thought she was amazing. 13:05.519 --> 13:11.121 [SPEAKER_00]: I remember going to see her play with with my dad and it was a co-build with Bob Dylan and 13:12.423 --> 13:13.104 [SPEAKER_00]: to my shame. 13:13.144 --> 13:16.428 [SPEAKER_00]: I was just like, after I was done and we're like, cool, let's, let's boogie. 13:16.468 --> 13:17.089 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't need to have. 13:18.431 --> 13:19.732 [SPEAKER_01]: Wait, when, what year was that? 13:19.852 --> 13:21.034 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe like, ninety nine. 13:21.515 --> 13:21.995 [SPEAKER_01]: ninety nine. 13:22.015 --> 13:22.576 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man. 13:23.077 --> 13:24.779 [SPEAKER_01]: You're just starting to get good again, Joe. 13:25.099 --> 13:25.500 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no. 13:26.080 --> 13:27.082 [SPEAKER_01]: And now he's bad again. 13:27.522 --> 13:27.762 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 13:27.923 --> 13:30.866 [SPEAKER_01]: There was this that like, little pocket of ten years. 13:32.828 --> 13:33.388 [SPEAKER_01]: That's all right. 13:35.129 --> 13:42.311 [SPEAKER_01]: So when you were a teenager, I understand the first David Grisman Quintet record was a huge game changer for you. 13:43.991 --> 13:47.792 [SPEAKER_01]: You said it was like looking through a window into a world of possibilities. 13:47.872 --> 13:49.273 [SPEAKER_01]: I hadn't even considered. 13:49.853 --> 13:51.453 [SPEAKER_01]: So like that's amazing. 13:52.054 --> 13:56.375 [SPEAKER_01]: What exactly was clicking for you and how do you relate to that record now? 13:58.130 --> 14:02.676 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't, I think it's just so exciting. 14:03.037 --> 14:12.789 [SPEAKER_00]: And the school library where I was going to school had the Christmas content plus definitely Grapelli, which was kind of a bridge from Django and Grapelli. 14:12.829 --> 14:14.391 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know, somehow it felt 14:15.312 --> 14:16.852 [SPEAKER_01]: What are these names you're saying? 14:16.952 --> 14:20.673 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I recognize Django Reinhart, right? 14:20.853 --> 14:22.454 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, who's the other name you're saying? 14:22.814 --> 14:25.514 [SPEAKER_01]: They're like intricate acoustic players. 14:25.734 --> 14:28.495 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Stafford Gapelli was his... Pretend I know nothing. 14:28.935 --> 14:29.335 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh God. 14:31.656 --> 14:37.777 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, just like there was, like there was a bridge between like, somehow I found the Django Reinhart stuff, which is, 14:39.276 --> 15:00.113 [SPEAKER_00]: like swing stuff and but really like a really strong personality that is so integral to that sound and that and that was actually true with Grisman too just felt like you could really have a sense of person or sense of like distinct personality coming through and that was true for everybody in Grisman and maybe that's part of what I connected to. 15:00.872 --> 15:01.393 [SPEAKER_02]: That's cool. 15:01.893 --> 15:05.097 [SPEAKER_00]: And like I had heard like we lived in North Carolina growing up in Bluegrass. 15:06.618 --> 15:07.539 [SPEAKER_00]: I just couldn't get into it. 15:07.619 --> 15:09.862 [SPEAKER_00]: It was like a it's a couple bridges too far. 15:11.243 --> 15:20.213 [SPEAKER_00]: But the the business stuff felt like you know accessible in a way that yeah where Bluegrass is like too strong of flavor. 15:21.414 --> 15:22.735 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah kind of like 15:24.427 --> 15:26.669 [SPEAKER_01]: Bluegrass music from what I'm hearing. 15:26.709 --> 15:33.654 [SPEAKER_01]: It sounds like bluegrass music was a little too like straight-laced for you and it's been like more scrappy and grew as beard out. 15:34.415 --> 15:34.695 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 15:34.855 --> 15:36.377 [SPEAKER_01]: And it didn't feel like. 15:36.817 --> 15:37.197 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 15:37.658 --> 15:37.918 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 15:37.978 --> 15:38.238

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 15:38.618 --> 15:47.045 [SPEAKER_00]: And like there's something about like the straight and narrow up the grass that's like hard to imagine liking for a long time. 15:47.105 --> 15:50.288 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's from someone who grew up in Northern Minnesota. 15:50.388 --> 15:53.110 [SPEAKER_00]: Like this is a really distinctly different than my experience. 15:53.885 --> 15:54.025 [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm. 15:54.606 --> 15:54.866 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 15:55.086 --> 15:59.248 [SPEAKER_00]: And yet, Grasman was a gateway for me and lots of other folks to Bluegrass. 15:59.849 --> 16:00.369 [SPEAKER_01]: For sure. 16:01.450 --> 16:02.430 [SPEAKER_01]: And thank God for that. 16:04.011 --> 16:04.872 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, okay. 16:04.992 --> 16:09.295 [SPEAKER_01]: So after the Grasman record, your dad got you a mandolin. 16:09.755 --> 16:15.699 [SPEAKER_01]: You called it a pancake mandolin, which is I think it's just like a mandolin with like a bigger rounder body. 16:16.400 --> 16:21.364 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and there was like an army navy kind of similar body build, just like a flat one. 16:21.925 --> 16:23.346 [SPEAKER_00]: And flat iron used to make them. 16:23.366 --> 16:30.252 [SPEAKER_01]: And for a lot of folks that was their first mandolin, which is kind of... What purpose is the shape of that kind of mandolin? 16:30.592 --> 16:31.633 [SPEAKER_00]: Making it cheap, I think. 16:32.894 --> 16:36.137 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like really, like a really, much easier way to build it. 16:36.177 --> 16:41.402 [SPEAKER_00]: I think, you know, mandolins are so expensive because of the carved arches. 16:42.748 --> 16:46.713 [SPEAKER_01]: So you've been playing some music for a while now you're playing the piano playing guitar. 16:47.073 --> 16:54.302 [SPEAKER_01]: How did you see and feel your connection to music changing through the mandolin and also through David Grisman? 16:54.602 --> 17:00.248 [SPEAKER_01]: And you've mentioned also Del McCory was a huge influence on you through their examples. 17:02.686 --> 17:10.610 [SPEAKER_00]: Just realizing that the stuff that was on the records I could start to recreate with my own fingers and that was just a breakthrough. 17:12.170 --> 17:21.175 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I had barely enough experience and they were somehow accessible in a way that I could start to feel like I could recognize a sound. 17:21.295 --> 17:24.877 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll never sound like them exactly and that's probably good but 17:27.339 --> 17:34.419 [SPEAKER_00]: I just kept trying and getting closer and recognizing just a few hints of things that have encouraged me to go along. 17:35.225 --> 17:38.348 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you do anything else when your kid decides play music? 17:39.249 --> 17:39.589 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 17:40.450 --> 17:42.472 [SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, I didn't party. 17:43.192 --> 17:54.523 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was kind of like, I remember being like just unaware of like looking back and be like, oh, that girl was being very friendly to you, but you don't, like, I was just like, just oblivious. 17:54.583 --> 17:56.125 [SPEAKER_00]: And I would just go home and practice the manual. 17:56.285 --> 17:58.307 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's go home and learn the pizza tapes. 17:58.587 --> 17:59.568 [SPEAKER_00]: Totally, exactly. 18:01.718 --> 18:02.318 [SPEAKER_01]: That's cool. 18:04.099 --> 18:16.361 [SPEAKER_01]: So after high school, you went to school in Washington State for a couple semesters at Evergreen State College and there you realize you're like super serious about the mandolin. 18:16.522 --> 18:17.422 [SPEAKER_01]: I need to get out of here. 18:17.602 --> 18:22.323 [SPEAKER_01]: Eventually, you chose to go to Berkeley College of Music, which is like 18:23.615 --> 18:30.997 [SPEAKER_01]: a huge change from one end of the country to the other, focusing on something that you've truly found a passion for. 18:31.177 --> 18:37.579 [SPEAKER_01]: What was it like to figure that out and how quickly did you take action to make music your priority? 18:38.400 --> 18:45.642 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was like, when I wasn't really doing my studies and I was staying up all night, just playing the mainland became clear that 18:46.899 --> 18:52.683 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I, you know, that my focus was already there, and then I needed to acknowledge it with my path, I think. 18:54.984 --> 19:04.370 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just, it felt like there had just been a banjo player, Chris Pandolfi had just gone there, and somehow it felt like maybe there was a nice opportunity there. 19:06.031 --> 19:08.433 [SPEAKER_01]: Chris Pandolfi and the infamous string dusters. 19:08.953 --> 19:10.654 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, and for a while, there had been no 19:13.158 --> 19:18.200 [SPEAKER_00]: No, mental employers or Banger players really officially allowed it, Berkeley. 19:19.320 --> 19:20.220 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay. 19:20.280 --> 19:25.062 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is truly wild to think about in the year of our lower twenty twenty five. 19:25.522 --> 19:29.443 [SPEAKER_01]: But you, Jo K. Walsh, I read correct me if I'm wrong. 19:29.583 --> 19:33.844 [SPEAKER_01]: You were the first mandolin student at Berkeley in two thousand three. 19:34.284 --> 19:39.726 [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of a fuzzy answer because there wasn't, you weren't allowed to major in it before. 19:40.945 --> 19:57.334 [SPEAKER_00]: oh but all right they hired john began who's as you may know was tremendous beautiful Boston musician and he had been there as a guitar student but also at the well he was there as a guitar student he won the national manland championship so he's a tremendous manland player so he and other people had been there 19:58.270 --> 19:58.550 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 19:59.791 --> 20:00.051 [SPEAKER_01]: Great. 20:00.331 --> 20:00.571 [SPEAKER_01]: Great. 20:00.631 --> 20:01.711 [SPEAKER_01]: So he was your teacher. 20:02.011 --> 20:02.252 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 20:02.852 --> 20:03.112 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

20:03.732 --> 20:08.414 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually met John again one time in college, but it was before I knew anything about anything. 20:09.094 --> 20:15.437 [SPEAKER_01]: So I have this like, it was like, he came in with the way fair and strangers to WERS. 20:16.137 --> 20:18.178 [SPEAKER_01]: It was like, two thousand three, two thousand four. 20:19.078 --> 20:29.805 [SPEAKER_01]: and for some reason that day I had like my old like point and shoot film camera and I was like let's take pictures and it was like Hanukkah Castle and Jake Armarding also came in that day. 20:29.825 --> 20:40.753 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was like two separate like two thousand four printouts of like Jake and Hanukkah in one photo and then John McGann and Eva O'Donovan. 20:41.473 --> 20:45.157 [SPEAKER_01]: in another photo and who's the lead singer of the way fair and strangers. 20:45.257 --> 20:47.600 [SPEAKER_00]: It changed so often, but it might have been Ruth Unger. 20:47.640 --> 20:48.901 [SPEAKER_00]: It might have been Hesmassy. 20:49.722 --> 20:51.544 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a man. 20:51.744 --> 20:54.528 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's probably my age now, but he's to me at the time. 20:54.568 --> 20:55.669 [SPEAKER_01]: He was like an older guy. 20:55.689 --> 20:56.269 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow. 20:56.550 --> 20:59.073 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they didn't have very many men singing. 20:59.093 --> 20:59.673 [SPEAKER_01]: Kind of a taller. 20:59.994 --> 21:02.176 [SPEAKER_01]: EFI think was probably singing at the time. 21:02.196 --> 21:02.456 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 21:03.217 --> 21:11.059 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyways, I'll dig up the photo and text it to you and then you can tell me who it is and I'll add an end and an end to them in the show notes. 21:11.919 --> 21:23.262 [SPEAKER_01]: But anyways, that's just a side story because I dig the photo up every time EFA's on basic folk and I'm like look at this and so she identified John McGan in that in that photo. 21:29.257 --> 21:34.778 [SPEAKER_01]: So you are a teacher right now at Berkeley, you're on faculty in the string department there. 21:34.998 --> 21:36.978 [SPEAKER_01]: You took over after John died. 21:36.998 --> 21:43.200 [SPEAKER_01]: And as we were saying, John was a beloved Boston Trad player for those who are not familiar. 21:43.660 --> 21:50.741 [SPEAKER_01]: John recorded with people like David Grisman, Darrell Anger, Marco Conner, Tim O'Brien, the Boston Pops. 21:51.481 --> 21:54.662 [SPEAKER_01]: Biggest gig is a Trad artist can get among others. 21:55.442 --> 22:06.216 [SPEAKER_01]: So what was it like for you when he died and also what was it like for you to take over for someone who is so revered at a place where like you were once a student? 22:06.917 --> 22:07.858 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 22:08.820 --> 22:10.422 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean that sounds very easy. 22:12.572 --> 22:27.167 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think I quickly accepted the premise that no one person could ever replace John and he was so multi-dimensional and it

took really five of us to try and try and take up the space. 22:27.767 --> 22:32.132 [SPEAKER_00]: He was such a model of a diversely talented musician in a really inspiring way. 22:32.612 --> 22:53.393 [SPEAKER_00]: And when he passed, it was really clear, like he led the Bluegrass history, you know, lecture, and he had a Gypsy Jazz ensemble, and he had a Celtic ensemble, and he had the Manlem students, and he had a guitar student, and I don't think there was a person on earth who could have taken done everything he did, especially not to the level he did. 22:54.533 --> 23:02.435 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it sounds like this next question includes John laying down the roots for what I'm about to throw at you. 23:03.055 --> 23:11.837 [SPEAKER_01]: So for those listening who don't know, the Boston roots bluegrass and Celtic scene in twenty twenty five is very vibrant, pretty incredible. 23:11.917 --> 23:14.958 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks to schools like Berkeley and the New England Conservatory. 23:15.538 --> 23:19.299 [SPEAKER_01]: However, I feel like that's only in the past like couple of decades. 23:19.779 --> 23:36.484 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's my opinion that like people of your and I feel like we're the same age, even though I'm not a musician of like our generation have worked to like quietly revolutionize and legitimize folk music by bringing it into an academic setting. 23:37.124 --> 23:39.825 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm just wondering how, how does that hit you? 23:40.805 --> 23:43.286 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's, I mean, 23:44.603 --> 23:53.311 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really nice that it's there and I feel like really proud that people can go and work on this music that they find inspiring in that way at school. 23:53.371 --> 23:58.997 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think the fact that Berkeley is trying to meet that need is cool. 23:59.457 --> 24:03.941 [SPEAKER_00]: I being that we live in the States and college is expensive. 24:04.021 --> 24:05.042 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a huge caveat. 24:06.272 --> 24:24.857 [SPEAKER_00]: totally for me and that's all of this is not without that huge thing that weighs on my mind which is that folk musicians who aspire to a career in folk music need to be very very careful about going into debt right right 24:26.385 --> 24:30.426 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, that which leads me to my next question, which we were just discussing. 24:30.526 --> 24:34.747 [SPEAKER_01]: So like folk music can be defined by like music of the people. 24:35.287 --> 24:39.648 [SPEAKER_01]: It's learned orally or in like a family or social setting. 24:39.768 --> 24:41.869 [SPEAKER_01]: So like now here's the question. 24:41.949 --> 24:46.170 [SPEAKER_01]: How do you feel about bringing folk music into an academic setting? 24:47.190 --> 24:47.550 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you? 24:47.570 --> 24:49.951 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I made up this word. 24:50.391 --> 24:50.691 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you? 24:50.711 --> 24:51.811 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh no. 24:51.891 --> 24:53.032 [SPEAKER_01]:

I don't know if I can pronounce it. 24:54.473 --> 25:00.245 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you like foking up music academies or are you a catamizing folk music? 25:00.986 --> 25:03.051 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's the aspect where we're 25:04.770 --> 25:14.453 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and I don't know if this is an apocryphal story, but supposedly Gary Burton famous vibraphone player who was in charge of Berkeley for right before the time I enter Berkeley. 25:14.493 --> 25:19.094 [SPEAKER_00]: Supposedly, he didn't want the banjo in mandolin there because they weren't real instruments. 25:19.134 --> 25:27.456 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's an aspect of this that I think is really important, which is saying this music is beautiful and really vital and deep and we can legitimize it in that way. 25:28.036 --> 25:29.597 [SPEAKER_00]: And I love that that's happening. 25:31.950 --> 25:44.707 [SPEAKER_00]: there's obviously some other complications that come with it and I think in the Bluegrass world people some kind of times derisively refer to Berkeley bands as being you know kind of a 25:47.042 --> 25:53.467 [SPEAKER_00]: if you like your bluegrass with too many chords or too much complexity, that's what you might find there. 25:53.948 --> 25:59.632 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's a legitimate, it's changing the music, you know, profoundly, and that gives me pause. 25:59.952 --> 26:08.459 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you know, you probably know, I think it's really a strong parallel between this and the way jazz was put into colleges. 26:09.260 --> 26:12.643 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's cool when, and I love being able to study 26:13.725 --> 26:18.208 [SPEAKER_00]: It was profoundly important to me to go to Berkeley and study jazz stuff and study with me again. 26:18.989 --> 26:26.854 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, the fact that it went into the colleges, I think changed the music profoundly and that's not necessarily positive. 26:29.503 --> 26:45.368 [SPEAKER_01]: In being around students at Berkeley, what is the opportunity like for you to stay connected to concerns of younger musicians like as the music industry crumbles around our various and being around younger people in general? 26:46.009 --> 26:50.270 [SPEAKER_01]: What have you learned from them about the state of mind of the future of music? 26:51.647 --> 26:57.352 [SPEAKER_00]: That's probably I should be learning more because it is really special to be in that situation. 26:58.753 --> 27:13.345 [SPEAKER_00]: I think part of it's that I'm befuddled by the way, they remind me of myself at that age and sometimes the impossibility of trying to steer them away from the mistakes I made. 27:15.307 --> 27:16.147 [SPEAKER_00]: As much as I try, 27:18.046 --> 27:27.074 [SPEAKER_00]: I remember making the mistake of not preparing for a gig with someone who I had deeply respect, and it's going on. 27:27.214 --> 27:34.481 [SPEAKER_00]: You're cutting yourself off from this whole beautiful set of possibilities, but I guess it's an old story, right? 27:35.622 --> 27:41.206 [SPEAKER_00]: They need to learn it in a different way than simply, a forty-four-year-old man telling them that. 27:44.050 --> 27:50.477 [SPEAKER_01]: I have a couple of questions about some elements of your music that I think are fairly important to you. 27:50.798 --> 27:53.321 [SPEAKER_01]: First question has to do with improv. 27:54.482 --> 27:59.648 [SPEAKER_01]: So improv is something that you're striving to do a lot, if not all the time. 27:59.868 --> 28:03.292 [SPEAKER_01]: You say, I try to be most present in every musical conversation. 28:04.033 --> 28:18.848 [SPEAKER_01]: which to me insights a lot of panic and fear because it takes a lot of listening and like I'm as I've stated I am not a musician so this skill it takes to play your own instrument first of all it's beyond me. 28:20.270 --> 28:28.879 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're playing your own instrument and you're listening to everyone around you and you're figuring out what you want to say in the musical conversation. 28:28.919 --> 28:33.083 [SPEAKER_01]: That's very hard for me as a non musician or just a non musician to understand. 28:33.784 --> 28:42.673 [SPEAKER_01]: So how difficult was it for you to learn how to listen to other musicians on stage like how did learning to listen change your performance? 28:44.344 --> 28:49.849 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, I think learning a listen is maybe the most important thing. 28:49.929 --> 28:52.652 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't even have to do with improvisation necessarily. 28:53.132 --> 28:55.395 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just one thing. 28:55.435 --> 28:58.257 [SPEAKER_00]: It's about not making it about self. 28:58.938 --> 28:59.739 [SPEAKER_00]: That's really important. 28:59.859 --> 29:05.485 [SPEAKER_00]: And if I'm listening to somebody else, I'm not obsessing over what I'm playing to the degree that I could be if I'm only paying attention to me. 29:05.985 --> 29:07.326 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's the most important thing. 29:09.423 --> 29:16.496 [SPEAKER_00]: I think all that stuff you're talking about I think like I ended up being the musician I am because of the values I have with the skills I have and to me like 29:19.630 --> 29:27.256 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not stressful to be in that moment and say, I'm just going to let what will happen. 29:27.516 --> 29:35.301 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's, it would, to me, sometimes it's more stressful to have an inflexible script and try and remember that. 29:35.361 --> 29:36.422 [SPEAKER_00]: That's actually harder. 29:36.442 --> 29:39.925 [SPEAKER_00]: I always think of like the situation where like, let's say I met a party and 29:41.483 --> 29:47.426 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to meet somebody and I come up with two or three sentences that I'm like, oh, this is really going to wow them. 29:47.726 --> 29:55.910 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and I never, when I try and think of ahead of time when I'm going to say to somebody and then walk across the room, it never works. 29:56.510

--> 30:02.733 [SPEAKER_00]: Even if I say it, the words that I think I'm going to say, I don't, they don't sound the way I want them to sound. 30:02.753 --> 30:04.954 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't sound tossed off or casual. 30:05.314 --> 30:06.755 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, and I feel relatable. 30:08.736 --> 30:10.297 [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel the same way with music like, 30:11.288 --> 30:20.114 [SPEAKER_00]: If I wanted to sound natural and it has to, I can't preconceive a lick and then play it at appropriate time. 30:20.154 --> 30:21.174 [SPEAKER_00]: That's really hard for me. 30:23.176 --> 30:29.960 [SPEAKER_01]: What's it like for you to listen back to old recordings of yourself before you maybe like hone this skill? 30:30.941 --> 30:39.786 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it can be punishing and it could be, like a lot of times, whether it's old or even yesterday, listening, sometimes I'm, 30:41.361 --> 30:46.745 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, able to see here music in it and sometimes it's like, oh god, what were you thinking? 30:49.728 --> 30:58.635 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man, it really, I, okay, so I can relate as like an interviewer where somebody I'll ask somebody a question and then they'll answer it and that'll be like, 30:59.727 --> 31:01.568 [SPEAKER_01]: The next thing that I say is like, oh, yeah. 31:01.629 --> 31:03.130 [SPEAKER_01]: And then blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 31:03.170 --> 31:09.154 [SPEAKER_01]: And I listen back and I'm like, what I'm responding to them has nothing to do with actually like what they're saying. 31:09.215 --> 31:11.736 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just sort of like what I wanted to say at the time. 31:12.277 --> 31:14.058 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's such a thing in music. 31:14.519 --> 31:18.842 [SPEAKER_00]: And like I think fine finding a way to try and let that go. 31:18.862 --> 31:21.724 [SPEAKER_00]: I think is really important, at least for me it is. 31:25.207 --> 31:28.510 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, this is a short set up because it's a question about restraint. 31:30.415 --> 31:34.038 [SPEAKER_01]: What is your relationship to restraint and how has that evolved? 31:35.739 --> 31:41.644 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a big fan of fireworks, so to speak, and just like many dogs. 31:46.728 --> 31:47.188 [SPEAKER_00]: That's true. 31:47.468 --> 31:48.369 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly. 31:50.270 --> 31:50.650 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. 31:51.030 --> 32:09.479 [SPEAKER_00]: I think just one thing that happens is like as a musician in a music where there's a recipe that you can understand and then execute, and the grass certainly is, and some folk music is, like singer-songwriter stuff has certain templates. 32:11.140 --> 32:17.861 [SPEAKER_00]: I think one thing that can happen is you're just executing the recipe and you can do that sometimes without asking. 32:19.922 --> 32:20.762 [SPEAKER_00]: What's my taste? 32:20.862 --> 32:21.582 [SPEAKER_00]: What do I like? 32:21.662 --> 32:37.045 [SPEAKER_00]: What do I, you know, I think part of the reason for the reason for the grace proliferated all of the places because it's so, you know, the recipe lets you participate in the way where you can succeed in that music, but I think sometimes you're not forced to say 32:38.400 --> 32:39.381 [SPEAKER_00]: What's my preference? 32:39.961 --> 32:49.806 [SPEAKER_00]: And at some point I listen to a realized like the things I'm playing and the things that I listen to when I'm making dinner are really distinctly different. 32:49.846 --> 33:00.171 [SPEAKER_00]: And why is the thing that I play different than the stuff that I listen to and care about and the music that nurtures me when I'm not playing? 33:01.291 --> 33:10.296 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think the correlation or the thing that was clear was like space and was those the priority and not chops. 33:12.197 --> 33:13.057 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, awesome. 33:14.898 --> 33:22.244 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, one more attribute that I feel like is important to you in your music is simplicity. 33:24.245 --> 33:28.429 [SPEAKER_01]: You said the best way to communicate is usually a well-constructed simple sentence. 33:29.750 --> 33:33.093 [SPEAKER_00]: Isn't it funny that I, in a question about restraint just a moment ago? 33:33.433 --> 33:34.474 [SPEAKER_00]: How long was my answer? 33:34.494 --> 33:36.155 [SPEAKER_00]: It was like ten minutes. 33:38.958 --> 33:39.318 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 33:39.418 --> 33:40.618 [SPEAKER_01]: I stop paying attention. 33:40.638 --> 33:41.879 [SPEAKER_01]: That's enough minutes ago. 33:44.739 --> 33:45.079 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 33:45.139 --> 33:45.839 [SPEAKER_01]: Simplicity. 33:45.919 --> 33:54.101 [SPEAKER_01]: So how did you get to this conclusion and then bonus part of this question, which actually might be more interesting than the first part? 33:54.781 --> 34:01.762 [SPEAKER_01]: How do you find that sometimes instrumental music can sometimes communicate beyond the human language? 34:04.343 --> 34:04.523 [SPEAKER_00]: Well. 34:07.298 --> 34:15.303 [SPEAKER_00]: I think like the musicians that I listen to who improvise, they're saying something very clearly and I think that's something to aspire to as an instrumentalist. 34:17.424 --> 34:22.548 [SPEAKER_00]: Like a clear statement, they only stop and then something else. 34:22.628 --> 34:27.231 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think not being someone who relies on breathing to generate a sound. 34:27.811 --> 34:31.333 [SPEAKER_00]: We can just generate sound forever without ever leaving a break. 34:31.714 --> 34:33.795 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think that doesn't feel musical to me. 34:34.716 --> 34:36.577 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's really important value. 34:37.842 --> 34:44.847 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, the second part of the question was about music that doesn't, that goes beyond language. 34:46.128 --> 34:59.738 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I feel like maybe I'm just not as good with language and for me music allows me to try and convey things that are difficult to articulate, but I think 35:00.978 --> 35:07.984

[SPEAKER_00]: Like for example, an example that comes to the mind is like, how do I convey sadness and hope at the same time? 35:08.304 --> 35:10.026 [SPEAKER_00]: Music is pretty good for that, I think. 35:12.347 --> 35:25.298 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's a hard one to describe, I think, or at least for me, I guess we all have our own languages and for me, collections of notes and spaces, the one that I feel more comfortable with. 35:28.093 --> 35:29.494 [SPEAKER_01]: You're based in Portland, Maine. 35:29.594 --> 35:31.375 [SPEAKER_01]: How did you come to live there? 35:32.396 --> 35:38.439 [SPEAKER_00]: I graduated from Berkeley and I didn't want to continue living in Boston and I didn't want to move to Nashville. 35:39.480 --> 35:41.421 [SPEAKER_00]: And at the time, Portland was cheap. 35:41.541 --> 35:42.962 [SPEAKER_00]: It was really affordable city. 35:43.002 --> 35:47.485 [SPEAKER_00]: So as a scrappy young musician trying to get my career together, it was a nice base. 35:47.765 --> 35:49.586 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was still in the Vanjoic Hills, sorrow. 35:50.067 --> 35:51.487 [SPEAKER_00]: So I wanted to be a striking distance. 35:53.240 --> 35:59.062 [SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty random, I have to say, and here you are, I don't know if it feels random or not. 36:00.562 --> 36:10.706 [SPEAKER_00]: If you were being strategic about trying to say, structure or music career, it's pretty far removed from most of the gigs and most of the infrastructure. 36:12.586 --> 36:14.627 [SPEAKER_00]: So in that way, it's like a strong impediment. 36:15.647 --> 36:32.013 [SPEAKER_00]: But there's always beautiful things that in retrospect feel like beautiful, which is like, if you're creating your music further away from, say, Nashville, I don't think you feel as many pressures to blend in, because you're not even in. 36:35.794 --> 36:41.977 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I just feel like I value the way I've been forced to think about 36:43.155 --> 36:49.640 [SPEAKER_00]: my values here in a way that I think in Nashville I would have been more likely to just be like, oh, this is what's working right now. 36:50.201 --> 36:52.042 [SPEAKER_00]: This is what so-and-so sounds like and they're working. 36:52.702 --> 36:53.483 [SPEAKER_00]: I need more of that. 36:56.926 --> 36:57.726 [SPEAKER_01]: You kind of have to work. 36:57.746 --> 36:59.167 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you saying you're working harder? 36:59.187 --> 37:03.291 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like being here 37:04.578 --> 37:09.502 [SPEAKER_00]: made it easier to achieve the goal that I would like, which is having a sense of self. 37:10.823 --> 37:20.531 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think being in Nashville or LA, I think you could get subsumed by whatever trend is succeeding. 37:21.648 --> 37:34.814 [SPEAKER_00]: And I would like to tell you that I'm impervious to that, but I also have recognized myself looking at, you know, I don't know, just being in situations where you're aware of what succeeds and not being able to totally ignore that. 37:37.167 --> 37:40.408 [SPEAKER_01]: The new instrumental record is Trust and Love. 37:40.608 --> 37:48.511 [SPEAKER_01]: It's your fourth record, which you describe as peaceful and beautiful and an understated record for an over-simulating time. 37:49.511 --> 37:52.292 [SPEAKER_01]: How does making this less is more record? 37:52.472 --> 37:54.853 [SPEAKER_01]: How has that impacted your state of mind? 37:56.134 --> 37:57.834 [SPEAKER_00]: My state of mind, that's a good one. 38:00.261 --> 38:12.564 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think part of it's like if you think that something needs to be made, and it may not even receive your response, but if you think something needs to be made, I think it's, you know, for me, at least, it's nice to just do it. 38:13.524 --> 38:27.007 [SPEAKER_00]: And part of the reason I say something needs to be made, not necessarily needs to be me, but I have been frustrated with the way in the Manelon world, basically the defining sound is more, more is more. 38:28.387 --> 38:31.449 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's cool, and it's beautiful, and it's really inspiring. 38:32.170 --> 38:43.637 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, I think if you want there to be space for understatement in the mandolin world, for me, I could, I grew out about it for about a decade, and then you're saying, well, 38:45.271 --> 38:49.035 [SPEAKER_00]: you should probably just do something and try and have an offering. 38:49.135 --> 38:52.317 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's a trend towards that these days and I appreciate that. 38:52.758 --> 38:55.640 [SPEAKER_00]: It hasn't always been like, it hasn't been like that basically ever, I don't think. 38:56.201 --> 39:02.726 [SPEAKER_00]: But it does seem like there's more valuing of that aesthetic than ever before. 39:05.586 --> 39:09.250 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, a good reason to be cheerful amongst the flames. 39:09.790 --> 39:13.154 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, is that Joe K. Walsh, you are a new dad. 39:13.174 --> 39:16.257 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, is this okay to talk about? 39:16.277 --> 39:17.438 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah. 39:17.578 --> 39:17.939 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 39:17.999 --> 39:18.239 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 39:19.100 --> 39:24.605 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, last summer, twenty twenty four you and your, do you say wife or partner? 39:24.625 --> 39:26.087 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, wife is. 39:26.307 --> 39:28.529 [SPEAKER_01]: Your wife Emma, welcome to your first daughter. 39:29.530 --> 39:30.290 [SPEAKER_01]: Very cute. 39:30.991 --> 39:35.392 [SPEAKER_01]: You posted a picture of her on your Instagram recently. 39:36.013 --> 39:43.936 [SPEAKER_01]: So you're holding her and she sort of looks like she's jumping on your mandolin and you said my Gilchrist has teeth marks now. 39:46.077 --> 39:49.258 [SPEAKER_01]: What has your music life look like since becoming a dad? 39:49.298 --> 39:51.619 [SPEAKER_01]: Like how has it changed your priorities? 39:52.520 --> 39:57.842 [SPEAKER_01]: Around music in terms of like music community, music career, music

at home. 39:59.391 --> 39:59.711 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 40:00.251 --> 40:13.498 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, first of all, like I don't, you know, I think I have a higher bar for what I want to do in terms of what gigs I'm willing to accept and- No more fucking around, Joe. 40:14.438 --> 40:18.841 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, honestly, like you're like, this justifies, this is justified being away from home. 40:19.461 --> 40:20.341 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 40:21.022 --> 40:27.185 [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe I prefer less money and more time with the little lady, and that's an okay trade-off. 40:28.906 --> 40:41.213 [SPEAKER_00]: And then also trying to create situations like she came to our weekly gig last night and was passed between five or six dear friends in the first hour and smile the whole time. 40:41.233 --> 40:51.799 [SPEAKER_00]: So that, you know, it puts a new light on casual gigs where she's just going to have these people who she grew up with and people who look out for her as she grows up. 40:52.839 --> 40:56.021 [SPEAKER_01]: Have you bought her her own little baby mandal then yet? 40:57.652 --> 40:59.773 [SPEAKER_01]: or put it up right piano in her room. 40:59.853 --> 41:01.754 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a winning. 41:01.874 --> 41:03.794 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it heavy handed if I buy her a mandolin? 41:05.615 --> 41:08.896 [SPEAKER_01]: No pressure. 41:08.956 --> 41:12.738 [SPEAKER_00]: I do actually want to get some beat or instruments to leave around the living room. 41:12.798 --> 41:17.820 [SPEAKER_00]: I think, you know, I have friends who like definitely like, oh, the kids, the kids are going to play. 41:17.840 --> 41:19.400 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't feel that way. 41:19.420 --> 41:26.263 [SPEAKER_00]: I just, obviously, I'll support her if she wants to, and I'll make space for her if she wants to, but I don't love the idea of like, 41:27.450 --> 41:28.711 [SPEAKER_00]: Our child will be a musician. 41:28.731 --> 41:31.953 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a weird attitude. 41:38.437 --> 41:42.239 [SPEAKER_01]: Being a teacher at Berkeley, how is that prepared you to be a dad? 41:43.620 --> 41:43.900 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. 41:45.261 --> 41:48.363 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I hope that I've got more patient and 41:49.751 --> 42:02.704 [SPEAKER_00]: been able to make it not about me as much as possible in the classroom and not have to be right and not have to have my, you know, I hope I've been successful about making it not about me. 42:03.044 --> 42:06.347 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's a quality that I think is an important one as a parent. 42:07.878 --> 42:10.540 [SPEAKER_01]: I've got to have follow up interview with your daughter in twenty years. 42:11.161 --> 42:13.282 [SPEAKER_01]: She can tell us, you're not, you did it. 42:13.523 --> 42:16.865 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right. 42:16.945 --> 42:21.869 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to hear about that Gil Christ Mandolin that your daughter was chewing on. 42:23.030 --> 42:26.993 [SPEAKER_01]: You two have a really interesting history coming together. 42:27.013 --> 42:30.696 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't want to tell the story because I feel like it's such a good one. 42:30.756 --> 42:35.000 [SPEAKER_01]: So can you tell the story of how you came together and what your connection is like? 42:35.655 --> 42:38.276 [SPEAKER_00]: That, that, that, that, that, that, Manlina and I. Yeah. 42:38.316 --> 42:40.477 [SPEAKER_00]: So, um, well, Andrew Marlin owned it. 42:41.097 --> 42:49.960 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and we had a nice hang after the Green Mountain Bluegrass Festival, and we're trading instruments, and, and just playing that. 42:50.180 --> 42:53.001 [SPEAKER_00]: And clearly, it's an amazing instrument. 42:53.081 --> 42:57.543 [SPEAKER_00]: And what I said to Andrew was, don't ever settle this mandolin. 42:57.563 --> 42:58.823 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a fantastic mandolin. 42:59.752 --> 43:00.712 [SPEAKER_00]: You should never sell this. 43:01.393 --> 43:05.154 [SPEAKER_00]: And you've got a couple months down the line. 43:05.174 --> 43:09.656 [SPEAKER_00]: You've got a, you know, a hot idea of buying a lower, which maybe you know what a lower is. 43:09.736 --> 43:10.757 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a, I do not. 43:11.237 --> 43:11.457 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 43:11.497 --> 43:14.098 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like basically a strand of various, but for the Manland world. 43:14.758 --> 43:15.999 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, dread of various. 43:16.239 --> 43:16.779 [SPEAKER_01]: What is that? 43:17.399 --> 43:18.120 [SPEAKER_01]: The variant. 43:22.752 --> 43:28.998 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I guess every arena of obtaining things has its unobtainable thing. 43:30.099 --> 43:36.025 [SPEAKER_00]: In the violin world, the strativarius is the most desirable violence and in the man world. 43:36.545 --> 43:39.068 [SPEAKER_01]: The movie deck or the whale and movie deck. 43:39.108 --> 43:41.110 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right, yeah, for most of us. 43:42.237 --> 43:42.797 [SPEAKER_01]: The white whale. 43:43.077 --> 43:43.298 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 43:43.998 --> 43:54.984 [SPEAKER_00]: And so he bought a lower and needed to raise some money and sold me this, which I'm glad he did, but also I feel like burdened by the idea that he may have come to regret that. 43:55.464 --> 43:55.824 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm. 43:56.184 --> 43:57.925 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, something to hang over is head. 43:57.945 --> 44:00.787 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't man do Marlon. 44:02.325 --> 44:02.866 [SPEAKER_01]: That's funny. 44:02.966 --> 44:07.051 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you have another Gilchrist mandolin because I read this story? 44:07.151 --> 44:07.892 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I see what you mean. 44:07.912 --> 44:07.992 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 44:08.012 --> 44:08.093 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 44:08.113 --> 44:08.193 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 44:08.233 --> 44:09.234 [SPEAKER_00]: I know what you wanted to talk about. 44:09.254 --> 44:09.474 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 44:09.514 --> 44:10.456 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's two. 44:11.136 --> 44:19.708 [SPEAKER_00]: I did have one and I, I guess grew out

of love with it, but it, it's still the great mandolin. 44:21.323 --> 44:22.123 [SPEAKER_01]: Ah, all right. 44:23.144 --> 44:24.505 [SPEAKER_01]: You still own that or is it? 44:24.865 --> 44:28.186 [SPEAKER_00]: I sold that one to buy the one that Andrew will sell me. 44:28.206 --> 44:28.466 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 44:28.986 --> 44:29.267 [SPEAKER_01]: All right. 44:29.687 --> 44:31.448 [SPEAKER_01]: We will not speak of the other one. 44:32.608 --> 44:32.948 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 44:33.048 --> 44:40.151 [SPEAKER_01]: So I wonder if this comes up in every interview that Joe K. Walsh does. 44:40.932 --> 44:44.113 [SPEAKER_01]: I found a picture of you in the other Joe Walsh online. 44:45.774 --> 44:45.914 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. 44:46.074 --> 44:48.295 [SPEAKER_01]: What is your history with Joe Walsh? 44:49.495 --> 44:50.116 [SPEAKER_01]: You being 44:51.201 --> 44:56.502 [SPEAKER_01]: regular guy, Joe Walsh versus Joe K. Walsh, the musician versus the famous Joe Walsh. 44:56.843 --> 44:57.123 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 44:57.543 --> 45:06.185 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I think my folks didn't even know that when they named me, that there was another Joe Walsh, they were not, like, into pop music or anything. 45:06.325 --> 45:07.645 [SPEAKER_00]: So we were all. 45:07.665 --> 45:09.186 [SPEAKER_01]: Eagles didn't make it to Duluth. 45:10.186 --> 45:14.167 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, somehow the Eagles didn't succeed enough for my folks to be aware of them. 45:15.047 --> 45:16.108 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah. 45:17.228 --> 45:17.288 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, 45:18.940 --> 45:21.442 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just been, it's been, there's been all these hijinks. 45:21.642 --> 45:30.087 [SPEAKER_00]: And I, I think, like, if I had known that I was gonna make a career out of playing music when I started, I would have probably changed my name. 45:30.107 --> 45:33.790 [SPEAKER_01]: Because people, at least, they should get the K in there. 45:33.870 --> 45:34.310 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. 45:34.510 --> 45:34.910 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. 45:34.930 --> 45:35.491 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right. 45:35.511 --> 45:36.351 [SPEAKER_01]: What's the K stand for? 45:36.411 --> 45:36.932 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me guess. 45:38.453 --> 45:39.053 [SPEAKER_01]: Cornelius. 45:39.413 --> 45:40.034 [SPEAKER_00]: Cornelius. 45:40.774 --> 45:41.255 [SPEAKER_00]: That's good. 45:41.555 --> 45:42.155 [SPEAKER_00]: That would be good. 45:42.255 --> 45:43.476 [SPEAKER_00]: It was my dad's name, Kevin. 45:44.197 --> 45:44.277 [SPEAKER_01]: Ah. 45:44.577 --> 45:45.738 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 45:46.738 --> 45:47.659 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to say, like, 45:49.120 --> 45:52.983 [SPEAKER_00]: But people come up at gigs and they're like, have you ever met the real Joe Walsh? 45:53.683 --> 45:55.985 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a little bit like, have you? 45:56.506 --> 46:00.328 [SPEAKER_01]: I might be the most real Joe Walsh you've ever met. 46:00.369 --> 46:01.750 [SPEAKER_01]: The real Joe Walsh? 46:01.770 --> 46:02.070 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 46:02.210 --> 46:03.931 [SPEAKER_00]: And that happens all the time. 46:03.971 --> 46:07.234 [SPEAKER_00]: And at some point, it's a little tiresome. 46:09.235 --> 46:17.501 [SPEAKER_00]: And there was, I don't know, just like, you don't want people showing up to a gig with a different expectation of what's going to happen. 46:18.411 --> 46:21.453 [SPEAKER_00]: And that has happened like I remember like in St. 46:21.514 --> 46:23.035 [SPEAKER_00]: Louis with Darrell and Grant. 46:25.056 --> 46:28.379 [SPEAKER_00]: There was a bunch of dudes with like no sleeves in like moments. 46:29.160 --> 46:30.721 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, this is not our crowd. 46:30.741 --> 46:31.221 [SPEAKER_00]: What is this? 46:31.301 --> 46:36.545 [SPEAKER_00]: And there was like, ah, I think the person advertised in a wrong way. 46:37.546 --> 46:37.626 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm. 46:39.087 --> 46:39.408 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man. 46:40.268 --> 46:45.112 [SPEAKER_01]: It does sound annoying, but have you ever played hotel California on your mandolin? 46:46.153 --> 46:46.393 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. 46:46.493 --> 46:47.294 [SPEAKER_00]: I never figured that out. 46:48.650 --> 46:49.231 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I should. 46:50.792 --> 46:52.334 [SPEAKER_01]: When you go back to that biker bar. 46:56.638 --> 47:00.441 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's do a lightning round and then move on with our lives. 47:01.462 --> 47:05.025 [SPEAKER_01]: As friends, as friends, as friends, as friends together. 47:05.886 --> 47:09.089 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so this is I love that this came up earlier. 47:09.730 --> 47:12.212 [SPEAKER_01]: What are you bringing to the Duluth Potluck? 47:13.804 --> 47:14.204 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow. 47:14.545 --> 47:18.507 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, into beans lately, cooking in a pot of white beans right now. 47:18.808 --> 47:19.288 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay. 47:19.428 --> 47:19.828 [SPEAKER_01]: Excellent. 47:20.209 --> 47:25.332 [SPEAKER_01]: Have you ever in Maine been to a bean supper? 47:26.013 --> 47:26.193 [SPEAKER_00]: No. 47:26.913 --> 47:27.174 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 47:27.374 --> 47:29.095 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to be in supper. 47:29.215 --> 47:31.337 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like in a church basement vibes. 47:32.638 --> 47:33.758 [SPEAKER_01]: All right. 47:33.918 --> 47:36.921 [SPEAKER_01]: Where is your favorite place to play in the Boston area? 47:38.862 --> 47:39.643 [SPEAKER_00]: Pessy is great. 47:40.283 --> 47:41.364 [SPEAKER_00]: How hard to be a Pessy? 47:41.936 --> 47:46.937 [SPEAKER_01]: I should have said, aside from pastime, where's your favorite place to play? 47:47.978 --> 47:51.459 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I was like something new, so I'm always happy to try out new rooms too. 47:51.919 --> 47:56.120 [SPEAKER_00]: I got to play at the, uh, what's that fancy room on, uh, on Massa? 47:56.140 --> 47:57.340 [SPEAKER_00]: I got to play that one as theater. 47:57.620 --> 47:58.181 [SPEAKER_00]: Symphony Hall. 47:58.501 --> 47:59.621 [SPEAKER_00]: That was, that was a lot of fun. 47:59.841 --> 48:01.722 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that is a, that is a fancy one. 48:02.622 --> 48:03.202 [SPEAKER_01]: Really nice. 48:03.222 --> 48:03.662 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 48:04.262 --> 48:06.203 [SPEAKER_01]: What is your ideal stage outfit? 48:07.102 --> 48:07.482 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, God. 48:08.383 --> 48:17.111 [SPEAKER_00]: It's changing because I feel would be comfortable, but I'm aware that people around me dress a little fancier, so just trying to find a compromise. 48:17.912 --> 48:20.053 [SPEAKER_01]: What is your favorite dad accessory? 48:21.234 --> 48:24.717 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, a backpack with a daughter in it, specifically mine. 48:27.157 --> 48:28.417 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, this is the last one. 48:28.457 --> 48:30.378 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a very important question. 48:31.118 --> 48:37.679 [SPEAKER_01]: Who is one musician living or dead that you'd want to write a tandem bike with? 48:38.839 --> 48:39.199 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow. 48:41.580 --> 48:42.580 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the air will be fun. 48:42.820 --> 48:43.460 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's do zero. 48:43.640 --> 48:44.200 [SPEAKER_00]: The air line in here. 48:44.420 --> 48:46.161 [SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if you're going to say the air. 48:46.941 --> 48:47.281 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. 48:47.541 --> 48:48.521 [SPEAKER_01]: Great bike partner. 48:48.541 --> 48:49.461 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. 48:50.001 --> 48:50.461 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, Joe. 48:50.501 --> 48:51.261 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much. 48:51.321 --> 48:52.062 [SPEAKER_01]: This was awesome. 48:52.362 --> 48:53.162 [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to speak with you. 48:53.322 --> 48:54.042 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for having me. 49:00.938 --> 49:04.239 [SPEAKER_01]: This episode of Basic Folk was produced by CJ Nungesser. 49:04.399 --> 49:06.320 [SPEAKER_01]: Dietrich Strauss composes our music. 49:06.700 --> 49:09.561 [SPEAKER_01]: Basic Folk is a production of the Bluegrass situation. 49:09.921 --> 49:11.942 [SPEAKER_01]: You can find all of our episodes there. 49:12.122 --> 49:15.623 [SPEAKER_01]: You can check us out on folkalley.com or their mobile app. 49:16.063 --> 49:21.045 [SPEAKER_01]: You can go to SiriusXM's mobile app and search for Basic Folk. 49:21.445 --> 49:23.826 [SPEAKER_01]: You can check out our website, basicfolk.com. 49:24.306 --> 49:27.567 [SPEAKER_01]: Or you can listen wherever you get your shows. 49:28.407 --> 49:32.789 [SPEAKER_01]: If you enjoyed this episode, I suggest sharing it with a friend. 49:33.169 --> 49:39.991 [SPEAKER_01]: Perhaps that friend who is just so thoughtful and caring and loves a little teeny tiny guitar. 49:40.431 --> 49:41.512 [SPEAKER_01]: Send it to that friend. 49:41.832 --> 49:43.412 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, we'll talk to you next time. 49:43.432 --> 49:43.492 [SPEAKER_01]: Bye!