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ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Exploring Chapters 5 and 6, “Love Is the Meaning”and “A Sacred Wholeness,” from Richard Rohr’s book The Universal Christ: How a Forgotten Reality Can Change Everything We See, Hope For, and Believe

Visit universalchrist.org to learn more about the core themes of the book.

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TRANSCRIPT

00:00:00Welcome to season 1 of another name for everything with Richard. Rohr exploring. The core themes of his new book The Universal Christ was podcast recorded in the ground to the Center for action and contemplation and may contain the quirky sounds of our neighborhood and setting
00:00:20we are housed Paul Swanson Center for action and contemplation and students of iskcon Temple to Pat trying our best to live amidst mouthy co-workers paying bills and the shifting state for World of 12 weekly episodes today. We will be discussing chapters 5 and 6 titled love is the meaning and a sacred wholeness in this conversation. We explore the nature of love as So Much More Than A Feeling is love the unfolding evolving force of creativity in our world. Let's find out.
00:01:05So Richard love has become such a romanticized word, you know in our English language in particular. It feels so weak now, you know, cuz it I can love or I can really love got me best tacos, you know of love in the way you described in your book and you mention the paleontologist and priest Mystic tarde de chardin and I wonder if you could share with us how you understand love to do is dip in one little corner. You know that were the first comes to mind. That's that's the most comprehensive is given when a thing is giving itself to you or person is giving themselves to you. They are loving you.
00:02:01And you know, we all know the difference we all know when people even say nice words to us, but it's from a cold place or it's just being polite or it's pro-forma and I've had people challenge me or correct me and I still felt given this.
00:02:19I felt respected held every step of the way. So it isn't this superficial. He likes me or she likes me. That's just useless. It's you. Doesn't have to do with liking someone or not liking someone you can actually dislike a person and could still give yourself to them and we've got a liking and loving all confused that famous book that influenced me very early by CS Lewis the four loves. He was wise enough to say that the Greek language had four words for love, you know, and that English only has one and that's why it's trying to hold so much.
00:03:07That it ends up being almost to you soon. I love my Cheerios. Well, I guess you can give yourself to your Cheerios with my kids say they like my if you love it so much. Why don't you say or yet? I might see if they've got an Insight. They're already we just use it far too easily. Make sure I remember he said storge Love Is the Love of things when you say that's a cute little teddy bear the Greeks would use the word storge for that, you know, and that's what your little boys are making fun of all that storge love and they already have a hint there's something bit bigger than that, you know the others philia.
00:04:02Of the appreciation. It's a little higher level where there is a valuing of the quality and beauty and truth. It's the love of friendship. It doesn't have to be intimate friendship are profound friendship, but never the last time I'm kindly inclined for that person or that plant or whatever might be then there's Heroes which again is the great confusing. Although we do use the word somewhat that way erotic it specifically means physically embodied love that has a character of of Fascination infatuation addiction attraction all those words erotic love of things. So it's it's considered the most dangerous and the most powerful because it has such power over us.
00:05:00This this this infatuation element, which is the first two don't have I'm just remembering when I can and you know, the very word infatuation from Latin means false fire don't get too attached to that cuz it won't last it's a false fire. Fire then the one that Paul chose to use in 1st Corinthians 13 is agape or I'll go pay it's pronounced both ways that was considered disinterested.
00:05:41Altruistic love that was given undeservedly unmerited and unachieved. We've got to keep holding on to that as the highest law as the Divine love and I think the Greeks even called The Divine love they didn't have our idea of Jesus or God, but they still knew there was a love that was perfect. That didn't depend on the worthiness of the object but was given this
00:06:15irrespective of whether that deserves to be given to Pure givenness for its own sake
00:06:25So we've got to keep that definition of you've heard me in other places I distinguish it from what I call Valentine's Day love Valentine's Day love which is the American use of the term is a flimsy combination of Eros and storge.
00:06:44Not even that much philia. It's just this game playing thing of Attraction very unstable very unreliable. And so have you know, the largest percentage of people to come to you for counseling our people has been wounded by this kind of love expecting Agape because their girlfriend or boyfriend said, I love you. When all it was was Eros in Stargate Stargate love a cute cuz you got a cute face. I love you now, nothing that we're doing culture and relationships and family a favor.
00:07:32To make such distinctions if we wouldn't think all their land their Christian trip on me, you know, if we don't preserve the higher levels of love ourselves. I don't know that we have anything to teach our offer and civilization. But the thing is we do have something more and darn it we have regressed.
00:07:57To the lower levels herself or use the word love to a large. You mean storge philia and Eros not a Godly in the way that you use love in the universe like rice, you talk about love creates future possibility and listen, so well that it works for the good of all even when it goes wrong and a ride. Can you pack that further? I think it's just such an important kind of Powerhouse thing to drink this discussion of Love especially concerned with the distinctions. You just made when you give yourself to an idea of person that an event
00:08:45You tell it. I'm so happy that you exist. I'm so happy that you are what you are when we get that kind of mirroring or even give that kind of mirroring to an idea its possibilities explode. You know, when you meet any introduced the negative critical mind, which I'm tempted to do as a 1 on the Enneagram you admittedly limited possibilities all well. Let's think of that criticism that Richard just offered and then you stay in that little world of criticism Laura What It Is What It Isn't So love is always telling us a thing or a person what it is.
00:09:29And if this is good, I used to use this as my standard wedding. Homily when I used to have a lot more weddings. I said what you have to say to one another for the rest of your life is I'm so happy that you exist just in one way or another. I'm so happy that you exist when you can say that to one another you're not helping one another girl anymore so growth happens inside of allowing mirroring permission giving because what that does if it gives you the freedom to be wrong and to make mistakes if you're terrified of making mistakes.
00:10:14And you create that fear already in your children?
00:10:20their arena for growth is going to be rather small it really cuz they'll always live in fear of being wrong and when you think of that the punitive model of parenting
00:10:33Really persisted worldwide and is still in much of the world till very recently. You can see why we understood the gospels that way cuz that was the way we raise children by threat of punishment by withholding of love not by giving ourselves to the child, but withdrawing the love from the child and I think parents thought they were doing good things that they stop talking to the child ride in a little child sits there. And what did I do wrong? What did I do wrong? Why is it mommy talking to me or Daddy?
00:11:14withholding of that given us
00:11:18It didn't look like punishment, but it was maybe the most common form of punishment of all and I'm sure when you're dating you do it to one another to your partner and I'm going to treat him in cold or her cold right now. So we learn these methods early.
00:11:36To be able to coerce to still give herself.
00:11:41Where we've just been hurt his heroic. I'm not I'm not making that easier light you have to do it wrong on awful lot of times and get trapped in that little hole of negativity.
00:11:55A before you want to eventually by out of it. I'm not helping myself by living in this stingy place cuz that's what it is. It's real stingy wild off withholding withholding withholding. I'm not going to smile at her. She might think I wasn't hurt by what she just did that for a smiling non-caring non touching non responding. It only gets worse. Doesn't it? Yeah, I can hear my wife saying amen right now because that is for me. That was my Temptation when I'm in that place is to withdraw. She's 2 minutes and not give of myself and that's been like me to invest mirroring for me is learning to how destructive that is that just for my wife but for myself, it's terribly dangerous.
00:12:47When you're considered like I'm afraid I am a person of importance or significance Moon Authority use whatever work when you're considered that you know that your non smile.
00:13:02Carries a lot of weight can understand it's hard not to use it. It's terrible just terrible. I know we've been talking at the personal level here. But I also think it's interesting that what you just said about the love of mistakes. It makes room for for that even at a cosmic level like even thinking how tired he uses that phrase at the physical structure of the universe is love, you know to think that in evolution work. We're kind of still figuring stuff out that gives me a lot of hope it helps create a sense of trust that you know, maybe this this great experiment that we're all part of an are participating and there's room for these these moments right now, you know that can cause so many of us to lose hope when we look around us politically or you know in the world and have that moment of how could this possibly
00:14:02Be good, you know when things are this dark but that frame helps me I guess is what I'm trying to say to put it in that frame of love and evolution.
00:14:14Evolution is the language of growth and change you would have thought we would have always had it.
00:14:22You would have thought it would have come naturally to us. Now our theological way of saying what are it said the physical structure universe is love is that was created in our image that God who is a cycling of infinite outpouring and infinite's receiving between three that's a the physical structure of the universe is low in theological language. Now, I know most people don't think in a trinitarian way, I probably think they're too easily too quickly, but we had it but is it any surprise that most of Christianity was not very trinitarian?
00:15:09It was theoretically yes, practically. No because we didn't understand that the very physical nature of the universe is love and this is where science and theology are coming together my God, we're good friends. We're saying the same thing what a gift that you say in your book. You say forgiveness my be the very best description of what God engenders in humanity. And you also say that you did a good job without you also say that without forgiveness. There's no real. Hope for a future for us and son. You just brought up the Trinity. I just wonder what what role is understanding how does understanding the universal Christ allow us to have a greater capacity to forgive.
00:16:05And have that forgiving nature.
00:16:10We really begin to experience.
00:16:13the all that our eyes see
00:16:18is the givenness of God be the absolute self emptying of God end of visibility when we start Experiencing God as operating from the worldview of abundance and not scarcity. Basically a forgiving person for give means to give ahead of time to give up front to not wait for the moment where it's earned. We were given an image of God who was withholding.
00:16:49Who is punitive who's even torturing?
00:16:54Can you realize how of course you can how creation spiritual I'm looking at? Those leaves outside the window right now?
00:17:03other thread there's already
00:17:06there's no withholding on God's part.
00:17:09That creates in the soul a worldview of abundance not a world you've scarcity and I dare say I think most of us were raised with a Christian worldview of scarcity. There is enough Grace to go around there is no forgiveness to go around. It has to be earned. We could not imagine an infinitely loving God and then I'm told the brain can't imagine infant Notions. So maybe it's not even our fault.
00:17:42better
00:17:45Again, here's where science is helping us just to the extent of the university the trying to imagine a single light year a saint with the mind can imagine they were talking about 176 light years from here to there. I'll come on. It's just our mind has been blown by by astrophysics and it's allowing us to think an infant Concepts and we we've got to believe that God Is Bigger Than what God created. We've got to have a god at least as big as this infinitely seeming universe.
00:18:27So now to understand God is forgiving giving given this itself forgiveness itself. God doesn't choose to forgive now. I'm then when people have earned it doesn't forgiveness anymore forgiveness is the permanent state of God toward reality.
00:18:52Yeah, that would convert any heart.
00:18:56That spent long enough time reflecting on it who wouldn't fall in love with such a universe and such a god.
00:19:05So that's why I keep saying we're still in baby Christianity were still wear it. We're trying to fit an infant gone into a world view of scarcity.
00:19:17Which is meriting accomplishing achieving?
00:19:25It's always a zero-sum game and there's never enough to go around Never Enough was enough Grace for gays, you know, not enough forgiveness for people in a second marriage not come on just stopped at that's you talkin. I thought God talking and would you reward your respect any God who was less than that? How could it be gone if it's picking and choosing and I'll liking light skin but disliking black skin on the fathers of our country made statements to that effect. They are permanently marked in these are the enlightenment people. The deists are people that are Simply Stamped for all eternity with inferiority.
00:20:21That's why I think I mean evolution is so helpful. I love how you say that to you that we're at baby Christianity that's exciting for me because it makes me think that there is hope that we are shifting into a new paradigm that we could that we could participate in changing the study of limitations of religion that the small thinking the exclusive thinking and I think so many of us who have grown up with the internet kind of had this weird experience of already having a felt sense of wenis because of the borders that used to work to keep a separate from each other we transcended those the internet helped destroy planetary belonging and so I often feel discouraged with be no thinking that there's any hope that Christianity can catch up to what you're talkin about.
00:21:17Well, here's one. I hope gift of this notion of the cosmic Christ of universal Christ if God and grace are inherent in creation.
00:21:29Listen folding is going to happen with or without its formal Proclamation.
00:21:37How we in the church might be the formal Proclaimers, but when you see how poorly we proclaimed it Houston, Julie, we withheld it I think God's work is going to continue to be done under a secular Banner in many cases.
00:21:57People will still be healed because I've gone through so many health issues in the last year. I'm just so we're of the generosity of a lot of doctors and nurses. I'd suspect they're earning you salaries. Okay, maybe they're not I don't care. But boy, I experienced a lot of gratuitous scaring. This wonders calls me every week just to check on everybody one called yesterday to go through all my meds that now this love this side effect is could have that so don't take this with that. It's horrible, but it's wonderful because I was getting impatient. I kept saying in the are We Done Yet.
00:22:43I don't care about all this and she I just stay with me a little longer. We want to help you and she really did. You know, she's even know me.
00:22:53That she's the universal Christ. Yeah, I'll probably never meet her face-to-face. This is what's going to win the day. That's Universal Christ. It doesn't have to have the label Christ. No, I'm still going to say you're quite blessed if you have the ability to name what's happening that's bringing it to Consciousness. I'm not saying organized Christianity. So I should throw itself out with that. It's always going to be with Jesus said at the beginning it would be 11:00.
00:23:27And illumination and assault that isn't the whole meal salt is in the meal Levin isn't the dough the light is that which illumines but it isn't an object in itself. So Jesus gave us metaphors to tell us to expect a humble role in society.
00:23:50We don't have to convert everybody tour. It's a privilege for me to be a Christian. It's no burden. It's not fear. It's not you know, it's a privilege but by the same token, I don't feel I have to talk to other people into carrying my privilege. They don't want to that's okay as long as they let the flow happen through them like that nurse on the phone with me for almost an hour yesterday talk about stupid pill says we've been going through and talking about, you know, we've gone to Universal metaphors and then to personal account back and forth and trying to hold both and in your book you talk about
00:24:39Play personally about having very little sensor of spiritual feeling and during recent Seasons really the last part of that cuz I think a lot of folks go through its Seasons where is very short and has very long, but it's all part of the evolution of our own job. And if you could speak to that, you know, I think perhaps because I had sent so many strong.
00:25:10Rushes of feeling and desire and hope as a Young Man.
00:25:17I am probably unknowingly presume. Will this will just continue and increase.
00:25:25Surely that has not been the case in the last 10-15 years. I have very little.
00:25:33Hi warm emotion is really is pretty much putting one foot in front of the other. I would say when I left the house this morning. Oh God, they're going to interview me. Appreciate this is what I'm supposed to do. And God has given me the grace to talk this way that seems to help people so I should do it but I won't leave here a few minutes from now feeling real gooey about how wonderful I am a wasn't that wonderful what I just did.
00:26:24Yeah, so most of it's just like like you do deobligation but ice much less burdensome because now I found a a meaning and a beauty of it, but I don't want to give people the impression I walk around just you know, everything is Beautiful. Jesus loves me. I don't feel
00:26:49Jesus God's love most the time doesn't mean I'm not enjoying it and you make its fruits. I'm enjoying its fruits, but and that's why I can be easily pulled into a moment of negativity resentment where I'm not enjoying the moment because I I live without a lot of ecstatic feeling.
00:27:18How about you go through years of say what am I doing wrong? What am I doing wrong? But I thank you for giving me a chance to say that because I'm that's true of every marriage that's true of every relationship with anything you love and if I'm to believe the mystics it's totally predictable in one's relationship to God the God must withdraw all feeling are you don't really learn to love the other you don't love the other you love what the other is giving you until you make that decision. Oh well course, I love God I get these gooey feelings all the time, but that's not loving God that's loving the experience of God. Now. I think you're ready for that till you've been on the journey for some years, but there's little days of practice. I'm sure you're both young people there still probably many days.
00:28:18Or if you had your druthers, you wouldn't be changing diapers or are watching the kit and I love watching the kid, but you do it you do it for love and you don't feel that's when you become a Pure conduit a pure conduit. At least. It's so helpful because I think we're so conditioned to to kind of look at happiness is the goal of everything, you know and contemplation as in this is a quote allowing us to stops are superficial Minds long enough to see the beauty allow the truth and protect the inherent goodness of what is whether it profits me pleases me or not, and I just think that's so profound for me.
00:29:18That's good. That's like a good bet that part of whether it profits or pleases me or not. That seems to be so much of a help so much more of a healthy perspective of of what concentration in genders and us to stop being obsessed with what pleases me or my personal Bliss and I know things are not going to perfectly please you so do you want to go through life unhappy most of the time. Stating your preferences now, I know we saw I love that liked you apparently say to your kids and I do it too. I love this meal or I love this.
00:30:06beautiful painting
00:30:10but just don't get too attached to that. It matters to the world whether you love it or not if it keeps you positive and flowing good, but if it's just so now I have to have that piece of art because I love it so much and I'm going to love it everyday hanging in my living room. No, you don't.
00:30:32That's helpful. Just I think for so many of us who you know, man, I think about the last several years in my own life. You know, I've gone through a divorce have gone through lots of life changes and there is this kind of silver growing up that's happening right now of learning to accept my responsibilities and even life being difficult as part of it, you know that I can feel that there's that little piece of me that's like, yeah and Holiness so thank you for that. For some reason if I can say so that the charismatic movement died for the most part he was way too tithe.
00:31:23Too gooey feelings. And that's just a sure recipe to keep people at stage one. It's an authentic stage, but it's not supposed to be a permanent. It's like thinking the church can exist on a Perpetual Pentecost Sunday. You don't love God anymore you love what God does for you. Yeah. This is a word that's going out of fashion. But the one that comes to mind from his obedience that there's an obedience that you're living in two when it's it's not in snot out of response to what you'll get but it's just out of responsive kind of being in that field of love. But you say that is that helpful reframing or am I off my rocker, you know if I understood you rightly and that's exactly it again, you don't because I had to study Latin and Greek ice off and get the roots of words.
00:32:23Dara is the word obedience means to listen to
00:32:30So an obedient person is a person's listening to reality. Listen, it's more than being dutiful. But just letting it have its way with letting it give us its messages. It's being responsive instead of commandeering reality.
00:32:54You know, I hate to pick on politicians so much but they've just become such a living example of how not to do it by their very professional. They think their job is commandeer reality and at least some to tell lies about almost everything to make reality and what they needed to be to win. However, they Define winning which is usually very superficial. That's the opposite of obedience.
00:33:28I just another idiot reality. You're not listening to the separated mothers and children on the American board turn on listening at all there. So they might think I'm obedient to church law. Well, you're not obedient to Divine Law and the vinyl is written in reality. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah pay attention to the laws written versus the spirit. That is actually trying to be as Manifest exactly. It's so ironic. There are the very people imposing the law.
00:34:04You have such incapacity to listen to reality speaking of that politicians. Can we talk a little bit about that idea from Ken Wilber of growing up and waking up so that you that you mentioned in the book Plumbing. You can share the whole enchilada Richard we have nowhere else to be
00:34:38Growing up waking up clean up cleaning out. What cleaning up is normally the first one out. So I was forgetting it most religion stops at cleaning up. Just trying to feel like your moral but all I don't gamble. I don't look at Playboy. I don't steal that's good. But the most religious never goes beyond cleaning up, even the wonderful Jewish books of Leviticus and numbers are all about cleaning up and there's no waking up yet cuz that takes awhile to get their growing up.
00:35:17It is what we would Now call psychological moral mental development intellectual development stages of Consciousness education. Probably be the best part of waking up is overcoming your sense of being a separate self waking up is rather rare. And in fact, it is rare among liberals as it is among conservatives cuz liberals think of growing up as waking and they aren't the same just cuz you got a PhD just cuz you're a Supreme Court Justice mean the very fact that we can have liberal and conservative Supreme Court Justices tells us it's not a high level of Consciousness. There was absolute truth it always agree. We're not dealing with absolute truth. We're dealing with relative truth, but they don't know that I think it's absolute truth and that they are there purveyors.
00:36:17Of conservative absolute truth are liberal. Absolute truth. The Mystic is the one that moves beyond that and again reads things in their holness.
00:36:28I doubt if you could survive real long as a Supreme Court Justice.
00:36:36Well, that's right three and four life so you could survive but you wouldn't be able to work with the team too much if you are at the mystical level cuz you would have a critical statement to both the Liberals and the conservatives UCI critique you on this I agree with you on this I could take you on that. I disagree with you on that. I don't think I can vote and all that. Maybe that's what you'd have to do. That's wake me up. And that's a small percentage of humanity that lives in what we call the body of Christ the collective the historical social the unitive the communion of saints where your Wii is more real to than your eye.
00:37:24That's high level conversion. I'm no I don't know that I'm there yet. I know I dip into it now and then now showing up.
00:37:33Can probably happen in all three stages where I give away to the world?
00:37:42I show up as a helpful person a contributing person. I pay you back some of this cleaned up and stop stealing and stop lying. I can probably belong to the rotary club or the Lions Club and ready contribute to the society have to be a Mystic Dunes Club. These are just social organizations that are good for society there. They don't demand a high degree of mystical Union that's waking up.
00:38:19So I'm growing up.
00:38:24Has largely just emerged as a science in the last few hundred years the real maturing of people and when it's almost coterminous with the development of psychology.
00:38:38And all the things like the Myers-Briggs the Enneagram spiral Dynamics all these wonderful tools are tools that help us to chart growing up.
00:38:53To guide growing up. So I think that's why we're so infatuated with growing up that you can see why a lot of people substituted for waking up their blood. You've heard me say this why I can't give up on her own religion as much as I'm critical of it cuz in its higher sense religion alone is prepared to talk about waking up. There's nothing to unite with if we're all separate being except you will be nice to your friends. It'll go out a few degrees, but was it Carol Gilligan who said self love to love of group to Universal love is the normal sequence.
00:39:40We're not even going to self love. So how can you go to group love, you know much less Universal of Emma might critique of organized Christian new your any religion.
00:39:54Is I still think it's getting less? I'm going to pick a number less than 10% of its people to universal law.
00:40:04Most think they're wonderful because they've gotten to self lover Grouplove. I never thought about you just said that about the growing up how the toolkit has really arrived in the last hundred and hear religions been around for so long and the little kid is much more can of effusive her like you can't
00:40:27Sinus Concrete in ways you can adjust cultivate a sense of who you are to receive to be on the path. She mailed it to be open to waking up would you say that's true or is there a ways that weaken those within religious circles could help she'll be around for waking up.
00:40:46We have to both point.
00:40:49An example of why the larger stage? That's what Gandhi was doing. That's what Martin Luther King was too Young Living models of it.
00:41:01Are you can't imagine that it it exists?
00:41:09No, most think most Progressive people think they were just educated into that buy more information more information more information. I have met too many arrogant University professors to believe that anymore. I met some wonderful University professors, but the confusion of Education with transformation is rather common among those of us who are educated. It's hard. Not your the ego is so inflated and I having an MA or a PhD or I mean, I recently met people at four and five phds and at least one that I'm thinking of isn't a very loving person. He's just in his phds.
00:41:57So it's important we keep saying that without putting people down. They just don't know about waking up. They don't know about the higher levels. They've seen so much cheaper than engine. I think it's all cheap religion.
00:42:13That's unfortunate. Did I respond to your question at all or come back? So I think he responded to even in the response to self the way your frame. It's just it's not something that is to step 1-2-3 and there to help Johnny over there wake up. It's not a part of Sunday school program. It's it's again, maybe my life and suffering in love will be better teachers than Sunday school or catechism class again Sunday school, but it's still based on the education model that give them correct information. Now all three of us, we're glad we got that correct information given to us very young. But look how much unlearning all three of us from different denominations, but my gosh we spent much of our life unlearning while still
00:43:09More deeply appreciate in the core. Yeah in that wonderful. I still deeply appreciate my Catholic Beginnings, even though I would understand almost all of it very different than the way the nuns taught it to me, but you have to start somewhere and you actually avoid God while talking religion Non-Stop and it's kind of what you're talking about right now is the best substitute.
00:43:45Possible almost for the exact experience of God cuz it's like an inoculation where you get just enough of the disease so you don't get the real thing in a match of religion is inoculation from the real thing.
00:44:09On Sunday, I read the Bible and their shop in a moment of transformative experience sometimes.
00:44:16I remember sharing with you not long ago. Just some of some of my challenges and some of my story and you said it's these experiences our experiences of God at a cellular level at such an embodied way. And and for somebody who's grown up in the Christian tradition in that head of religion that helps me cuz it is a shift and he's experienced the great love and suffering are kind of that cellular experience some of the species come to that easier in earlier. I don't know if it's menstration labor menopause.
00:45:02Seen their bodies made into an object by men's often, but they have to pay so much more attention to their body. We men can basically grow up ignorant as long as we're good at football game. So we don't need to really listen to it. I don't know what it's like to like count the days between your periods that you have to be listing your body. I don't have to do that. There's no periods in my mom today already, But even that the hot flash phenomenon becomes in a different way listening to my body here it comes now. I know what it's going to mean for the next 3 minutes.
00:45:53It's a different way of accessing the moment listening to your body, but I'd wait till seventy-five what else think that we are kind of running out here Richard. Do you have any other questions before we conclude with her or final? And I think that that's one of the contemplation that I so appreciate right now is just how we're focusing so much more on embodiment. So I guess is we round out to a close to shift our question of you know, when have you encountered Christ today? How have you lately encounter Christ in your own embodiment mean you're talking about taking these pills and having me, you know, hot flashes and all these side effects.
00:46:46It's been really humiliating this year to both because of cancer and heart attack and being put on all these medicines to just constantly experience. My body is weak. I think of all my life as a young person where I saw old man old woman walk down the street, but that was always someone else someone else.
00:47:14And I locked in sympathy but you know what? I could not have sympathy cuz I didn't know how helpless that feels. I'm much more notice of old people now cuz now I know all my gosh how they feel, you know.
00:47:33Isn't it sad that we have to sort of come to that embodiment moment or so before we can normally have an empathy for what other people are going through?
00:47:50Yeah, I mean.
00:47:52Already it. It's now. It's a daily thing. I'm just
00:47:57dealing with my body. Where is most my life celibacy included. I just ignored my body just just a bother and it just and again, I wasn't into competitive Sports people always like me for my ideas. So I just lived my world of ideas and pretended I didn't have a body but this is a gift God's giving me and my final years that I am. I have to pay attention to it have to listen to what I have to take the right pills the right time of day now I have to go and get on a treadmill. I mean just the word of a tragic. It's my spiritual practice.
00:48:47Is very much tied to embodiment.
00:48:53The Beautiful music you're listening to is provided by birdtalker.
00:48:58The name for everything with Richard. Rohr is produced by the center for action and contemplation. Thanks to the generosity of our donors. If you're enjoying this podcast considered liquor and more inclusive community to learn more about Father Richard and received his free daily meditations in your electronic mailbox visit cc.org.
00:49:22She want to hear more about these ideas is part of an online community consider participating in the live webcast of our spring conference, March 28th through the 31st or details. Is it CC. Org events in the high desert, New Mexico? We wish you peace and every good.

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