PROMOTED

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In early 1930s America, segregation is the law of the land, and syphilis remains a grave public health concern. A handful of white government doctors aims to treat African Americans in a rural Alabama county where infection rates are especially high. But several officials conspire to alter the program’s goals, launching a decades-long program that will stain medical history.


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English
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PROMOTED

TRANSCRIPT

00:00:11July 1972 San Francisco, California, it's a pleasant summer evening at a pleasant dinner party in a pleasant apartment filled with Chit Chat and Shop talk and international Affairs reporter with the Associated Press named Edith Lederer breaks away from her conversation to refill her wine glass letter scans living room. Everyone appears to be having fun. Everyone except the lone man by the window staring out of the city lights after a minute. She recognizes him an acquaintance Peter Buxton. She walks over and Peter nice to you. Right and I guess
00:00:48What's a long awkward pause?
00:00:52Do you know how I came to this country? I thought you grew up in Oregon. I did I was born in Czechoslovakia and 37. My father is Jewish so we can I bring this up because
00:01:07I think you should know that something very similar to Nazi Sciences being practice here in America today either are swallows hard no more casual sits from her wine glass. She's all ears.
00:01:23What are you talkin about was just a random morning. I was in the coffee room. This was back when I track venereal disease for the US Public Health Service, Collinsworth chatting and one mention of patient in Alabama. This man had terrible symptoms. He said he was plainly insane. The family was scared. So they took him to a doctor they knew and after a brief examination. The diagnosis was made syphilis tertiary stage the doctor gave him a shot of penicillin send him home, but when the higher-ups at the PHS found out about the treatment they were angry angry why because the doctor treated a man who was not supposed to be treated not supposed to be no way. I don't understand the CDC the Surgeon General the State Board of Health. They're all in on it Peter in on what the experiment
00:02:16He has for 40 years PHS has been experimenting on black man in Macon County Alabama in the beginning. There were over 600 test subjects. Now, there's less than a hundred the rest are dead or unaccounted for none of them know they have syphilis the doctors running the study. They didn't tell them they just let them die. They want to see what happens with syphilis goes untreated in a man's body right up until the moment it kills him.
00:02:44Steven pay for burial cost Peter that can't be true and I can prove it have all the charts all the reports are not even trying to hide it. They don't think they're doing anything wrong. The test subjects are all black people all of them. Every last one. The study will continue until every last one dies when someone does something I need to talk tried I've tried but I need your help. This has to be exposed.
00:03:16Letters head is spinning. She finds the nearest coffee table and set your glass down here. I want to see everything you have on this tonight right now.
00:03:28Weather in Buxton depart that knife or buxton's home once their letter at least through interoffice letters Roundup report x-ray descriptions autopsy photos her eyes widen the phrase just like we are keeping the known positive patients from getting treatment and arranged for autopsy those who died in the future. She takes everything she can carry and starts making copies. The experiment is called the Tuskegee study of untreated syphilis in the Negro male is the longest-running non-therapeutic experiment on human beings in the history of medicine relatively few people in the medical community are aware of it even fewer have questioned it until now most people have had no idea. It's happening. Especially not the test subject, but the doctor slowly killing them are thrilled with their results.
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00:05:37From wandering. I'm Lindsey Graham and this is American scandal.
00:06:00Informed consent truthful disclosure of diagnosis and test results. These are things we've come to expect from our doctors in today in the United States. It's illegal to conduct a medical study involving human participants unless these conditions are met the rules were signed into law in 1974 in response to the Tuskegee experiments syphilis is a sexually transmitted disease that if left untreated can cause blindness stroke heart trouble insanity and death in the early 20th century. It was a massive Public Health concern poorly understood and until 1945 largely incurable beginning in 1932 more than four hundred black men were recruited to participate in a study on the effects of syphilis in the coming years. Another two hundred men were recruited as control the issue was none of the patients knew that they were part of a study the infected ones didn't even know they had syphilis.
00:06:56Instead the sick men were told that they had bad blood and would need regular testing and treatment. No more specific diagnosis was ever given and the promise treatment never arrived men were allowed to die when they could easily have been cured. The question is why this episode 1 first Do no harm
00:07:21It's April 1929 when Michael Davis steps briskly into the well-appointed office of the United States Public Health Service PHS, the white-haired and nearly 50 years old Davis still has the drive and focus of a young Visionary the start of his career today. He's got a big Vision. He's here to see huge s coming the PHS Surgeon General not long ago Davis join the Rosenwald fund a private charitable organization started by Sears co-owner Julius Rosenwald for the well-being of mankind. The son of Jewish immigrants Rosenwald had poured Millions into schools Museum Charities and taking a special interest in helping America's black communities Davis is the funds new director of Medical Services charged with collaborating with PHS to develop black health programs. This is what he plans to discuss with coming settling into a plush office chair Davis outlines. His agenda segregation is still very much the law of the land, but he tells coming A lot has changed.
00:08:21In the old days the philosophy was that since blacks live sinful lifestyle. They got illnesses like venereal disease and deserved what came next discomfort physical disfigurement even death. Luckily. He continues such medieval thinking is a thing of the past enlightened Doctors Now understand that improving black public health will improve health for everyone. So and now Davis is excited. It's time to get more black people into medicine train these workers to treat the citizens of their Community gesturing as he speaks Davis calls for the hiring of black nurses physicians in sanitary inspectors. He tells coming he wants money invested in the construction of black medical facilities the establishment of scholarships that will promote black Public Health Training. He concludes by saying they'll focus on Rural blacks in the South and partnering with the Tuskegee Institute in Alabama a black University co-founded by Booker T, Washington.
00:09:17With his pitch concluded Davis. It's back satisfied.
00:09:21After minute coming not says he likes what he's heard. He sells Davis I'll get started right away.
00:09:31Thousand miles away in Bolivar County, Mississippi. Dr. Oliver Clarence Winger smiles to himself as another long day at his health clinic draws to a close its early September 1929. And even though it's a Saturday. There's no place. I'd rather be he helps one of the doctor's sort-of many vials of blood samples collected this afternoon even more than the day before and that's good. Looks like you'll be able to complete testing ahead of schedule to Mississippi following his success as director of the PHS venereal disease clinic in Hot Springs, Arkansas his Clinic skater to local black communities and when was proud of that as a white doctor in the South he sees himself as something of a Shepherd is patients are like children. He explains to friends. All they need is a little guidance and its guidance. He's happy to give he spends his days improving their health drawing their blood for analysis and administering injections and ointments to help them feel better. It's satisfying work. Plus these people really are a hoot loading the blood
00:10:31To a truck Langer chuckled to himself or calling what just happened to Dr. Brevard to Negroes approach Brevard and said they felt weak after having their blood drawn the previous day specifically they felt that their sexual Powers have been impaired Dr. Brevard knotted stroked his chin and propose a solution with the Negroes like their blood back their eyes lit up. Yes, they would provide excuse himself then returned with a 1 oz bag of red colored Placebo you solemnly advised Negroes to take the mixture in teaspoon full doses. They promised they would the party with no further complaint amazing.
00:11:10Armless Jokes Aside though for years Wagner's believe that medicine is letting black people down and he wants to do his part to end the neglect. So he was thrilled when the US Public Health Service sent him here to Mississippi. This mission is to oversee syphilis testing for 2000 black locals working for the Delta & Pine Land Company so far, he's found that nearly a quarter the company's black employees. Carry the disease that Revelation has led to what Wenger considers another leave for a syphilis treatment program funded by the PHS. If it works you could be replicated. In other towns across the country has been running this program to but he's only a month in and it's hard work. The days are brutally hot and the medical facilities are hastily constructed in barely adequate infected men can temperature right now. There is no cure wenger's confident. There's one right around the corner, but for now that research process is too expensive and time-consuming. So when you're in his partner do the best they can with drugs.
00:12:10Why were the men non-infectious they can at least keep other people from getting the disease?
00:12:15Justice day. Hope the program is a success the PHS does decide to expand it? So, dr. Wenger happily heads to Alabama launching another large-scale Auntie syphilis effort for the benefit of rural blacks and I need his help even after years of this work Winger Can't believe how poor they really are black sharecroppers and Rags still coded in dirt from the fields room me eyes missing teeth, but still smiling way. How could anyone live like this?
00:12:49Is mild winter afternoon in February 1930 the rough and dirty Manor lined up at the possum Hollow School in Macon County, Alabama and by the looks of them are lucky to have someone like Wanger to save them from themselves. They even have one of their own a black doctor named Clyde Frost from the Rosenwald fund attending to the men in line. Dr. Frost hands of Isle of recently collected blood to a nurse sees when you're watching him and not when your walks over is Frost sends a patient on his way. Take care of yourself and don't forget, you know, anyone who has been seen by us yet you be sure to tell him to come by looks like the testing is going smoothly. Dr. Frost. I'm impressed many of these men have never seen a doctor. They're happy to see any medical attention grateful to receive treatment for the first time in their lives.
00:13:36And you're keeping them in the dark right? We're here to prove to this country's doctors that the disease can be controlled them on Roblox. But we're sure as hell not here to do is give these people in education and do an aerial disease in The Facts of Life. It's important. We don't confuse these people with words. They don't know and don't need to know words like syphilis. No one here has said that word myself included we're sticking to the approved terminology. We just tell them that they have bad blood need medicine which we provide excellent for trying to keep this all running as smoothly as possible the few or needless conversations better.
00:14:15Frost can I ask you something? Of course, dr. Miner they do almost anything we ask no whining the questions that seems to be a common trait among explain it Frost takes his time Wagner can see that he seems to be struggling to find the words. Well, I think that the people here are not actually kind and you seem very trusting white considering how whites treat them down here. That's surprising to me. Dr. Wanger. They've learned to obey authority figure.
00:14:53Well, I'll let you get back to a doctor Frosty.
00:14:57Keep up the good work.
00:15:01Winter walks away thinking about that last exchange the people here believe in doing what white people tell them to do that's very few questions. He's here to test syphilis. And in more ways than one he's found the ideal test subject. He looks towards the door as more and more black men enter their this open to suggestion. Perhaps there other purposes. They might serve apps that can be driven to make great sacrifices to the name science without even knowing it.
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00:18:04It's March 1930. Dr. Wagner's testing in Macon County is come to an end not a chilly day in the nation's capital the newly hired PHS advisor to the Rosenwald fund pours over Winger's results. I just asked you make Sergeant notes in the margins. His name is dr. Tolliver Clark and his family Roots date back all the way to colonial Virginia, which is why I was a true Southerner. He doesn't find the statistics for Macon County all that shocking 36% of the blacks tested have syphilis. That's nearly 8,000 people. He double-checked the data sees that it must be either. He's fascinated by the Numbers energized and intrigued by them me some ideas of his own about how to proceed which is why he's invited the Rosenwald funds Michael Davis to his office to discuss the final Davis's aware of the data coming out of Alabama and it worries him Clark knows that Davis is taking issue with aspects of winners treatment program that with his methods or its conclusions, but it's something else
00:19:04I can sense a certain sentimentality in Davis sound of sentimentality he shares and he knows he'll have to set the director straight.
00:19:14Good afternoon. Dr. Clark. Dr. Davis. Thank you for coming to see me, please please sit. Thank you. If I'm a doctor Clark I'll get right into it the findings concern me with a concern me to that's that's a lot of sick Negroes down there. That's not exactly what I mean. Obviously there's an ongoing Health crisis in Macon County, but I feel we need to be careful with how we reveal this day Clark plasters on the most patient and he can muster Here Comes please go on Sir infraction will be given that syphilis in the south is a Negro problem rather than one of both races. I fear this really unfortunate emphasis on the Negro specifically could Rouse resentment among negro troops in both the northern and southern communities 36% of negroes in one in Potter County in Alabama not reflective of the country's Nidra population is a whole life. I have no doubt the data is accurate, but we both know that syphilis isn't just a black
00:20:14Rosenwald fund wants no part of lending Credence to that stereotype sure certainly certainly and don't think I haven't thought of this now. I know how concerned you in the fund are with negro progress and it's very forward-thinking very forward-thinking, but I'm right eye doctor Northern Negroes the vast majority of them will not give this matter a second thought and as far as the southern blacks are concerned with the program. I appreciate that. Dr. Clark but still man, you're bound ask why Negroes only why not test Southern whites as well. We know they have a disease too. If we don't test them we could be accused of bias as well. I sure you biases got nothing to do with it. I personally would have loved wise to be included in the testing and treatment, but I'll tell you dr. Davis. I know a thing or two about southern whites.
00:21:08Thank you for me. They would not be easy to deal with where has dr. Wenger shorts me the Negroes down south are most Cooperative. Do you have to take my meaning? It's a matter of cooperation. Of discrimination that the work is limited in nidaros, but just learned more this way, and that's the truth. The car that is the truth. I believe we should give serious consideration to expanding the program. Alright, then keep your doctor for Clark's miles stands and shakes Davis's hand. Thank you doctor. So appreciate you coming in.
00:21:49Once Davis is gone Clark turns back to the data starts forming plans for the next stage of the program. He wants it to expand and figures everything will be fine. As long as Davis and his Rosenwald fund. Don't get in the way.
00:22:08Following heater Clark is in his office when he learns that the Rosenwald fund has gotten in the way for months. He loved me the fun to expand the Negro syphilis treatment program. But today he's received the letter from dr. Davis. The fun has bought two expensive specially during the Depression car slams his fist on the desk and paces takes every ounce of his strength. He has not to rip Davis's letter to Pieces erase it over and over again and it's more irritating each time in his mind. He hears the words in a sniveling voice. The fun has regarded it as a privilege to be able to assist during this preliminary. Of study and attack upon this great problem in southern rural areas. That's hogwash are things the fun could find the money that really wanted to but would rather back efforts to educate the Negro turn out really concerned with his health. The clock is he thinks that the Phi should be building health clinics for black people rather than wasting money on schools Clark has his own pet name for what?
00:23:08Tools might produce White Collar Negroes. The world doesn't need white collar Negroes. It needs Negroes who aren't contagious than early Clark realizes it's time to write his final report on the Macon County syphilis treatment efforts assess. Davis's letter assigned he's decided he's never going to look at it. Again. He closes the office door to shut out the noise of the hallway those a sheet of paper into his typewriter sits down begins to rapidly punch the keys but after about an hour riding, he abruptly stops if he not think of this before it was staring him in the face the whole time right here in the data, Macon County has the highest prevalence of syphilis in the South any of those infected received treatment, but many did not because the Rosenwald funding dried up before anyone could tend to them.
00:23:56Clark wonders, what would happen if the PHS decided to focus on the ones who weren't treated once they stayed that way could they be useful to understanding more about the disease Clark has a feeling they could now he's not a monster. Would he prefer to treat the syphilitic blacks? Of course he would but if the Rosenwald fund won't pay for it. That means there's no money to treat those people. So it doesn't matter what he'd prefer. If you can't treat them he can do something almost as good he could learn from them what Clark's imagining is a sweeping experiment unprecedented in a scalp doctors know that many black people suffer from syphilis. What did they really know the effects of the disease on blacks specifically many of theorize that syphilis affect blacks differently that it does whites, but no one's ever actually proved it Clark feels that someone really should conduct a study that someone should be him.
00:24:51That's where he'll make his mark on medical science.
00:25:01Throughout 1932 Clark makes plans. This has to be a serious study a disciplined an absolute commitment to the scientific method will be required. The subject is untreated syphilis in Negros Clark is pleased to discover that the work is not without precedent. Just three years earlier in Oslo Norway eye doctor brusgaard observe hundred local test subjects with primary and secondary syphilis examination only no treatment brusgaard wanted to study the nature of syphilis and Deuce cardiovascular in there. A lot of damage has Clark reviews the details in a German scientific journal, he nods and satisfaction smile on his face. Obviously, the study was whites-only it was conducted in Oslo Norway for God's sake that's it serves as the ideal temperature for Clark's Counterpoint coloreds only rendition, but Clark wants to do the oslow scientist one better. They base their conclusions off case histories. They didn't conduct ongoing examinations.
00:25:59Chicago collect his data in real-time with his pitch assembled Clark starts lobbying colleagues at the PHS invites them to meet him in his office at his home in the local restaurants. Most popular during lunch hour. He shares his ideas and it's encouraged by the response all agree that the studies worthwhile. Yes. There are risks to the infected with those risks pale in comparison to the potential medical insights one calling to is fully on board with Clark's plans is dr. Oliver see Wenger. He happily agreed to collaborate with clock once again with wine or support secured Clark knows it's time to get on a train for Alabama upon their arrival. He tells Winger he must see the State Health officer. Dr. J and Baker immediately.
00:26:49It's a pleasant September Day in Montgomery. When Baker opens his office door to admit Clark in a minor. Thank your sits down. Then Chester's for the men to proceed. He's aware that they have an ambitious plan to study the Negroes in the state. He needs to be certain these men know what they're talkin about. The PHS doctors describe their intentions Baker takes it in not ask for clarification. It seem like intelligent men aren't promises to iron out some details and even admits. There are still many questions or procedure to be worked out when Clark is done with his pitch Banker wait, so long while before speaking driving his fingers on the desk. He realizes he's thought of a couple of things they have it.
00:27:29When you finally speaks he agrees but with some conditions yes Clark and do his study but observing blacks without offering any treatment whatsoever isn't going to work to be perfectly clear Baker explains. It's not that he has a problem with the potential impact on the test subjects. He's more concerned with their white employers. They may not be happy to learn of a program. That isn't doing everything I can to keep their workers as healthy and productive as possible Baker says at the very least Clark and wangers operation must take steps to render some of the blacks non-infectious and this is nonnegotiable. He asked Clark if they have a deal Clark says they do when the study starts minimal treatment will be provided with that Baker knots and shakes their hands the visiting doctors move as though they're about to leave with Baker stops them is one more condition. He tells them that if they're going to study untreated syphilis in Macon County blacks. They better find some a local sponsors. He can't have the PHS running about Alabama and experimenting on them.
00:28:29Goes without the support of a trusted Medical Institution. Preferably one that already employs a number of black doctors and nurses Clark nods rapidly in agreement that you can see the man filling in the blanks. It's really only one place in the country that meets those conditions and luckily for Clark and Winger. It happens to be just 15 minutes away from the heart, Macon County.
00:28:54From Montgomery Clark and Winger hit the road on their way to the illustrious Tuskegee Institute founded by Booker T Washington Institute of stood since 1881 is one of the most significant bastien's of black education in the country a place where blacks can truly receive a world-class education about the medical and Industrial Arts. They're planning to meet with Dr. Eugene H doodle Tuskegee medical director, and they're nervous about to tell this black doctor that they intend to oversee an experiment on local syphilitic blacks. They will not tell the black test subjects that they have syphilis and will observe the disease as it runs. Its course almost totally Uninvited by medical intervention experiment will be presented to test subjects as an extension of the Rosenwald fund treatment program, but it isn't conversations that Minefield don't have to be cautious nuanced and how they go about securing. Dr. Dibble support because Tuskegee is the only place their experiment can be carried out.
00:29:55Dr. Eugene doodle make sure he's standing straight when Clark and Wenger pull up. He hopes they'll be suitably impressed with John a Andrews Memorial Hospital. And with him. The hospital is a beautiful brick building with white trim and for magnificent Collins at its center deals worked hard these past seven years to ensure that it stands a monument to Black achievement and prosperity every aspect of the Institute reinforces that serious and legitimate work is done here Dibble recognizes that he must do all he can to propel Tuskegee into the future. It's nearly nineteen 33 and if black people of progress in this country must not be named Iceland. He's anticipating this meeting as much if not more than the white doctors for the PHS just now stepping out of their car. Jean Dibble notices is Clarks shoe to anger and quick look before taking late when it is certainly an honor to meet you. Dr. Dibble.
00:30:51With much to discuss and preferably in private. Can you show us your office? Of course?
00:30:59What's the three doctors sit down? Dr. Clark does most of the talking Dibble is content to do most of the listening. He can tell Clark is leaving details out at intentionally perhaps not this is all to be expected. However, it will remind himself to maintain focus on one thing the good of The Institute. This is a wonderful facility you have here we want to help you make the most of it. Nothing will do that like you committing to help your government facilitate scientific progress when your jumps in you can bet that in Washington. I'll never forget your valuable service to your country and your people talked about the word will do here with your help. If you let us will truly improve Public Health on a national scale for Generations.
00:31:44It'll remain silent for several moments processing the information. He sees Clark and when they look at each other almost nervously he realizes that they need him just as much as he needs them Dibble is not used to this kind of power. But she likes it course. He was always going to say yes, the prestige in association with the PHS would bring to Tuskegee is in measurable, but they don't need to know that devil puts on his best. Will expression and breaks the Silence I Believe I understand you want the Institute to provide you with the interns and nurses you'd like to use our offices and examination rooms. And you will be providing some measure a treatment to Macon County blacks with syphilis though. Some of the details are still being worked out.
00:32:29The program will last the better part of a year and you need me sign off and all of this or the program will not be able to go for yes doctor. That is correct. Well doctors you have my support. I think this study will be wonderful for the Tuskegee Institute are young nurses struggle to secure a meaningful employment after we train them out in the world white people will rarely agree to hire black nurse. So if you're telling me you will employ Black nurses and black Physicians for your study and I think that's a good thing. That's that's the most important thing. They don't notice is Clark suppress Akron OH, I agree doctor and you won't regret this now if you allow dr. Wenger and I some time to work out the protocol for our study will return with implants together will Propel this fine institution of yours to a level of respect and Prestige is never seen.
00:33:23Following a brief tour Tuskegee hospital Dallas is Clark and Wagner to their car smiling. He waved. Goodbye say drive off cloud of dust and their way as it settles see pictures the years ahead and all the success to come great new chapter in the history of the Institute is about to begin and doodle is proud of his role in it is that this instant however that your smile Fades if he's being honest with himself, he's not so sure that Booker T, Washington or he still alive would be so proud it will shake the feeling off returns to his office Booker T. Washington isn't here. This is a different time.
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00:35:19It's September 1932. Dr. Tolliver Clark is in Baltimore Maryland at John Hopkins University. Dr. Joseph Earl Moore. Dr. Albert kydele in the venereal disease clinic is feeling somewhat desperate for their expertise Clark knows he wants to study untreated syphilis in the Alabama blacked. He's got all the official by and he needs but when it comes down to the finer points of actual scientific protocol, he still has a lot to sort out which syphilitic blacks will be observed. He obviously can't include all of Macon County's infected 36% How many test subjects does he need? Which one should they be? He's hoping more and kydele what contributes suggestions to flush out the disc Iggy study so we can begin in Earnest as the doctors walk across the school's expansive campus on a tryst Falls after car gets all the suggestions. He could hope for more of the to Johns Hopkins doctors Moore's the more talkative. He warns Clark of pitfalls to avoid first the study can't be about black people.
00:36:19That doesn't mean examine people about the races. He says it means examine black men only Far Cry sat down but wants to know why more replies it since female genitals are primarily inside the body. It's much harder to get reliable information as to the date of the syphilis infection for a woman early syphilis symptoms can easily be mistaken for something else that makes sense the car. He asked if there's anything else and more says there is ideally no men under 30 the younger the test subject the more difficult it will be to observe the late-stage manifestations of the illness next more suggest that the men be brought in batches to the Tuskegee clinic and asked to provide a full and accurate medical history only men who can identify exactly when they're infection took place should be allowed to participate in the study as this will make Clark's job much easier additionally Clark should seek a total of 200 to 300 patients. Given Macon County's infection rates. You shouldn't be hard to find enough men who meet these criteria.
00:37:19Finally more reminds Clark is something very important something already feels he knows but him it's worth remembering more tells him not to forget that syphilis in the Negro is in many respects almost a different disease from syphilis in the Wind by Clark Moore's eager to see how the day to drive from the blacks and make him look compared with the data obtained from the whites in Oz Le Clark and more believe that whites blacks are simply fundamentally biologically different like many American doctors. They cling to the theory that syphilis is likely to damage the neural systems more and whites in the cardiovascular system more than blacks Park hopes that his study with its real-time examination of subject will prove this once and for all
00:38:04The past eight months Eunice Rivers has been the supervisor of night nurses in Andhra hospital at the disc Institute as usual. She's feeling beat no probably take another eight months before she's used to working all night not able to head home until sunrise, but you'll get used to it for as long as she can. Remember she strive to make your father proud. Albert Rivers was a man so illiterate he could barely write his own name Eunice can never forget how determined he wants for his eldest daughter not to be like him. He pushed her to pursue a rigorous education center to a different town where his sister lived near a decent school where children could really learn something. You just came to appreciate the fact that her father would always quiz her on what she'd learned the second she returned home after a full day of class when she was college-age. He enrolled her at the Tuskegee Institute with what little money he had. She took up handicrafts but her father put a stop to that he told her she had potential and could be a great nurse Eunice proves her father, right?
00:39:03She Excel which is why dr. Dibble promoted her tonight manager the wind Dr. To the request as a meeting with her today. She got nervous. She's tired all the time. Now, she walks down the long stretch of hallway that ends up tables office and wonders. Did I make a mistake? They mix up the extra charts something else. She know she should have double-checked now. She's probably about to get fired and right in the middle of what people are calling a Great Depression.
00:39:35You wanted to see me. Dr. Dibble. Yes nurse Rivers, please sit down. Dr. Dibble sings happy so nice Rivers relaxes. Maybe she was wrong. She relaxes more unstable begins to talk. He says he's always been an admirer of hers respect her work ethic her medical background her way with patients. He mentions a doctor Clark with a Public Health Service. Then he comes to the point. So all that said I have good news Nursery Rivers. The PHS is going to do a study in aspic Tuskegee to facilitated That's so exciting doctor. I'm happy to hear that and I want you to help with the study Rivers has taken aback. How can I help doctor that studies going to examine men in our local community black men specifically study examine the effects of untreated syphilis in the Negro. May you have a solid background of Public Health projects. So I'd like you to be the special scientific assistant for the study. What are you doing? Well,
00:40:32Yes, of course, but but what well, I just don't think I know syphilology in enough detail to be useful surely not enough to be anyone's special scientific assistant.
00:40:44You can do whatever they want done. I don't have to worry about that River Smiles if the medical director believes in her she can believe in herself. She allows herself a laugh. Well now what's so funny nurse Rivers, but I have to be honest with you doctor. I I would have done almost anything to be off night Duty I can assure you. This is much better than night. I can't wait for you to meet. Dr. Clark. He's a good man. I think I think we can trust him.
00:41:16At that moment in 1932. Dr. Tolliver Clark is in his office quite pleased with the latest developments. His diligent work has helped him secure the backing of the Alabama State Board of Health the Macon County Board of the Tuskegee Institute with all its black Personnel at his disposal the Tuskegee study of untreated syphilis in the Negro male the last around 6 8 months and began October which is just a few short weeks away Clark Source through his mail and is glad to see a letter from his colleague. Dr. Wenger. He opens the letter up and beans as he reads in a Kangaroo Express has his eagerness to begin and Ernest Clark shares Winger ends his letter with I'm confident the results of this study. If anywhere near our expectation will attract worldwide attention. You will either cover us with mud Or Glory when completed
00:42:06car couldn't agree more
00:42:13next song American Scandal the Tuskegee study of untreated syphilis in the Negro male officially begins and quickly becomes something darker far from boreas after the selection of the test subjects. Dr. Clark reveals what he is truly actor what the black medical professionals of Tuskegee by the r In Too Deep to turn back from wondering if this is American Scandal, I hope you enjoy this episode. You did subscribe now on Apple podcasts Spotify Google podcast laundry. Com or wherever you're listening to this right now, if you're listening on a smartphone or swipe over the cover on this podcast the family episode notes by supporting them to help us all through this show to you for free. And if you do like this show, we love you to give us a 5-star rating and leave a review. I always love to know your thoughts and reviews on the best way for others to find the show tell your friends and family showed them have subscribed. You can also find us and me on Twitter search for
00:43:12#American Scandal or follow me at Lindsey a gram has many sources when researching our stories but we highly recommend the book Bad Blood the Tuskegee syphilis experiment by James H Jones and the Tuskegee syphilis study by Freddie gray just a quick note about our reenactments. We can't always know exactly what was said but everything in our show is based on historical research American Scandal has hosted edited and executive-produced By Me Lindsey Graham 4-airship sound design by Eric Behrens. This episode is written by Hannibal Diaz editing by K C minor and Emmet Courtland executive producers or Stephanie Jen's Channel our Pac-Man and Hernan Lopez for wondering

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