Today, for episode 53, we’re featuring the audio from the interview at the 2017 Charleston Conference with Brewster Kahle, founder and digital librarian of Internet Archive. Our hosts are Tom Gilson, Associate Editor of Against the Grain, and Albert Joy, Library Associate Professor Emeritus, University of Vermont.

Each year, ATG is pleased to release a series of video interviews titled “Views from the Penthouse Suite.” These interviews occur at the Charleston Library Conference, and it has become something that we look forward to every year. Select speakers and attendees are invited to the Penthouse Suite on the 12th floor of the Francis Marion Hotel in historic downtown Charleston, SC, to discuss wide-ranging topics and issues of importance to the publishing and library world. Videos of these interviews are available on the Charleston Conference YouTube channel and on the Conference website video page.

Brewster Kahle Interview Video: https://youtu.be/lhblEZfqX_k

List of all Penthouse Suite Interviews: https://www.charlestonlibraryconference.com/video/atg-penthouse-interviews/

Internet Archive: https://archive.org/


United States


00:00:08hi this is Lee Hines welcome to ATG the podcast against the grain is your key to the latest news about libraries publishers jobbers and subscription agents our goal is to link publishers vendors and librarians by reporting on the issues literature in people impact the world of books and
00:00:29journals each year ATG is pleased to release a series of video interviews titled views from the penthouse suite these interviews occur at the Charleston conference and it's become something that we look forward to every year select speakers and attendees are invited to the penthouse suite on the twelfth
00:00:48floor of the Francis Marion hotel in historic downtown Charleston South Carolina to discuss wide ranging topics and issues of importance to the publishing in library world the use of these interviews are available on the Charleston conference YouTube channel and on the conference website video page today for podcast
00:01:07episode fifty three we're featuring the audio from the interview at the twenty seventeen Charleston conference with Brewster kale founder individual librarian of the internet archive our hosts are Tom Wilson associate editor of against the grain and Albert joy library associate professor emeritus from the university of Vermont links
00:01:28are available in the shin it's for both the video of this interview and a list of other twenty seventeen penthouse interviews as well thanks and I hope you enjoy hearing from Brewster Tom and Albert we are really pleased and I must say honored you second time out of
00:02:03your very busy schedule always Graham up here and and and chat with us it's it's just a delight to have you with us my honor thank you give %HESITATION you have had such a a career full of innovation since you graduated from MIT %HESITATION but perhaps your best
00:02:19known at least in our circles as the creator of the internet archive I was wondering what the TV the inspiration to create the internet archive what what did you see that a lot of other folks just didn't lose it was actually this nineteen eighty and I'm kind of
00:02:35taking a mighty and it's one of those promises it's always been me that we're going to the library of Congress on her desk any moment now where the library of Alexandria version two and actually seem like you know not that hard on to do and this is the
00:02:49time when a I was coming along and so I worked the A. I. lab in artificial intelligence lab at MIT and I thought that we were we were data start the basically if we're going to have these machines learned they're gonna have to learn from something that might
00:03:03as well read all the books in the library and okay that's just a heady days back back closer but that's when I got on this kick and I've never gotten off so I'm I'm just a one trick pony but it's all been in pursuit of trying to build
00:03:16a library first we need computers that we needed to have the publishing system work which turned out to be the web I did a system called ways that came before it Sir morphed into into %HESITATION though with the web I didn't you know invent the web %HESITATION but
00:03:31pushed it and try to get the publishers on board once publishers are on board the early nineties then we can build a library and %HESITATION so that's what we're off off trying to do it and the idea that it's going to be a library I think is was
00:03:44the wrong idea it really has to be libraries we have to bring all the libraries because they're all working I've learned a lot along the way %HESITATION and you just need the different points of view on the different funding streams are you referring to yourself as the digital
00:04:00library into the esoterica what's in your job description high run it I write so I read I read the internet archive on the lifetime the librarian on and that that %HESITATION to do the normal %HESITATION personnel as she type things which try to keep the focus on universal
00:04:19access to all knowledge can we make it a we have universal access bits out all knowledge bits and so we try to basically do those two functions we measure ourselves based on or the collections growing and are they used more and that's been a very helpful in guiding
00:04:38principal to sort of say okay how can we do home media types can we do all television to do all books can we do %HESITATION all the journal literature movies mood right now we're doing seventy eight RPM records which are actually completely fine sounds like a lot of
00:04:56fun all it's really really fun and so we've got funding to do four hundred thousand sites and trying to get all the meta data right in trying to link it in with all the other structures so that basically generation that wasn't around to meet somebody to really even
00:05:10before my time and so it's how do you go on bring these materials to new audiences %HESITATION by giving a rich resource and that's that's just been the fun of it in your plenary you're talking about digitizing library collection yes and so that can be a budget for
00:05:29that can be done %HESITATION protecting the rights yes so how how does Bristol public library number and then burst into laughter do that so we basically got that before nineteen twenty three stuff done more or less is always more to do but it's it's sort of the out
00:05:48of copyright nods to question how do we go and deal with the missing sentry mostly really modern current books people are buying in ebook form in some form or another whether leasing in some weird way which we have to sort of get back to buying but but then
00:06:02there's this there's all these books from the twentieth century say take twenty three to at all the end of the century and we've got to get those online and get them circulated so the idea of the open libraries program is to make it so we we we able
00:06:17wand over the bristle library or or or or sign any any library or university I was and squinting point your library is now dead so your patrons would then have a choice between going and finding that the book on the shelf for checking out a digital version digitized
00:06:34version then on so that's the the the user proposition is they get a new way actual peace palm in all the libraries already paid for it it's already been on the shelf on so can we can we do that from the libraries perspective they can get to a
00:06:50new audience to people at home on people with disabilities people that are far away on people that want large print editions all they want it read to them maybe even getting it so that a eyes and %HESITATION the robots can go and read some of these and so
00:07:06the the libraries proposition on there is there's a little publishers position they get the digital files back if they want him on and if there is popular and they're all these out of print ones maybe they bring him back in print when that be great on the authors
00:07:23get red and we have examples of lots of of books in a kind of obscure old books getting a lot of use arms so there's kind of maybe it's you know it's being used in a different way than it might have been intended at least in its day
00:07:39on but it and as well as readers we get a much deeper view I'm worried about what's on the internet isn't good enough that we've basically come it's not digital doesn't fast I think wikipedia's great front door to knowledge but now we have to build the rest of
00:07:57the house and I think the libraries in the in copyright works in our libraries are the things that we need to get it moving on so you said I understand this the one book in you you have a choice she took the book out to take him to
00:08:10chill out %HESITATION if your community is let's just start small the United States and there's a book that someone takes out in Peoria and it becomes popular how to why you get to it I can go on the wait list could that weakness not months and months and
00:08:29months and certainly can be for for popular thing so the four of you go to open library dot org and recommend it it's it's really it's pretty easy cried the whole overflow vibrator to work and you can see all these books you can click on one and borrow
00:08:42it and you have to get a free library cards but the popular books have got a waiting list and I waiting list complete long because we only have one copy because these are books that have been donated to the internet archive so we've fully fit we physically on
00:08:56them or their been in libraries may be your personal loans Bristol Vermont on that there library has digitized that and put the %HESITATION on the book back away there's only one copy either physically or digitally being alone at any one time and that's worked out great for last
00:09:15six years that's been up and running for six years working fine but there's only one copy so how do we make it so that there may be copies in Bristol there might be brought in Middlebury there might be and now waits field and I were staying in Vermont
00:09:28here anyway they have anywhere and all of that does libraries could choose to land the digital versions of their physical books as well %HESITATION or make them available the blind and dyslexic users in their region this would be a a great step forward towards increasing the amount of
00:09:49digital inventory of digitized books that are digitized in a coordinated fashion right adjusted to ties once great and then %HESITATION either use the internet archive circulation system to help out the smaller library or some others will want the actual digital books and they'll handle it so if if
00:10:08this hypothetical library or not so digitizes their collection then they have multiple ways of learning that digitize collections yes but also other people might have digitized it already right so we didn't overlap study with Delaware County Ohio's library in I don't know there are forty five thousand books
00:10:29that we'd already digitized out of their collection and so on instantly there that was done now that was in their full collection I think they had three hundred thousand ISBNs so than that so we have more work to do but you can leverage the work that everybody else
00:10:44is doing so I think the smaller libraries were just leverage other people with all just going fine what are the ones that we have that haven't been done yet maybe they either digitize those themselves or they send it to a regional scanning center of the internet archive which
00:10:58costs about ten cents a page to turn the pages and and digitize the book %HESITATION or if it's donated to the internet archive will pay for it put up lots of ways to get the books digitized and then we need to use the libraries and the wonderful capacity
00:11:15that they have to touch huge populations to go and get the right books the right people and and that brings up a follow up that I have that balance question and that's discovery the discovery of all of this yes they how do you see that evolve we're trying
00:11:32a few different things on it of course it's go to the people Franco go to where they are looking for books so the online catalogue still packs we've done some experiments where you can put a little piece of Java script in the web page the fines the I
00:11:48SP and in this case can be OCLC number and then ask us is it do we have it and is it checked out and puts up different icons if we don't have it then it's blank if it's checked out the puts up one icon if it's hate click
00:12:02here and you can get it right away then that would just go out so that's been a dozen experimental integration can imagine much closer integration with the iOS is but that takes some doing so OPEC's another is Google really I think we want to make it so that
00:12:18if you're looking for a good fact on something a war to war %HESITATION some genealogy thing or whatever on that these books should pop up in Google and maybe you'll be going to archive dot org but if the local libraries have said yes %HESITATION then you'd be borrowing
00:12:39it from those libraries so that's kind of like the Boston public library digitize a lot of genealogy cookbooks on and it says right there on the book this is digitized and loan to you from the Boston public library another discovery of opportunity I think we've got is wikipedia
00:12:58wikipedia is got all sorts of footnotes on the let's turn all of those footnotes blue let's make all of those links let's make it so that everything might be a book reference with the page number and it's live now click you go to the book and you see
00:13:13where the book right there so you're encouraged to draw yourself in one and two G. makes that within Wikipedian allows that to happen gives the rates for people to annotate those links and make a mental into our creation that's the wikipedia community arm and we worked with the
00:13:34wikipedia community on the way back machine so on the way back machine is an archive of the worldwide web we crawl the web and make it available offer on archive dot org you can type in the U. R. L. and see the old well turns out that a
00:13:47lot of links and wikipedia's references had gone dead and of somebody in Pennsylvania old here made a robot they go through and test is a dead end what's the newest one that the internet archive has of it and we then worked on getting that to be sort of
00:14:05production ready and the community om om we keep English wikipedia about a year ago said yes go forth and we've now fixed over one million broken links on wikipedia and now it's going through all the other languages and the different communities are saying yes yes yes or no
00:14:26no yes and so it's now I think Germany does that in Japan Indonesia all these different %HESITATION wikipedia's have let the robot go in fix their links so it's it's a community thing it's not a as is wikipedia as as wikipedia yeah but the idea is let's get
00:14:44our books wherever people are and let's go and get them out there %HESITATION and easy to read let's get Amman on mobile platforms let's get them so that they're not integrated so it's not yet another discovery system boy we have discovery system fatigue is like do I have
00:15:02to look in yet a different catalog for something like how no no let's get it serviced the way people are looking for information now and just get to be better information be great if we could have just one stop shopping and just find it all in one spot
00:15:15I don't know it'll be one I think it'll be many shops but let's put it in every shop rates my guess would be the let's going get these things out that is an open system let's get it out there you also mention list I've read you've mentioned that
00:15:30publishers are digitizing their catalog on their back back back up back catalog but they're also creating services around these digital offerings I was wondering what services are referring to and which ones do you find to be the most effective the most interesting well I'm not a real user
00:15:48of a lot of users services on site I'm not exactly sure what how to answer from that perspective but we work with MIT press in an interesting way MIT press %HESITATION was interested in doing their own digital offering it was on of their catalog the license to universities
00:16:03awesome and they called up and has to fight help advice as well at all about advised about help do it and so on we have external funding %HESITATION from a Arcadia fund does a fine tribe fund to digitize their books and MIT press gets them back to go
00:16:27and make their service but also the internet archive holds them so that all libraries that own a physical copy of any of those MIT press books can land based on their physical copy so it's an explicit not leveraging Sir fair use or or or or legal issues it's
00:16:46it's explicitly a %HESITATION a publishers saying yes Houghton Mifflin is also said yes to their backless being digitized and want so we all were we're making progress I think we've got a good balance here in this this morning's presentation with ms brand from MIT she was talking about
00:17:06choosing which in the back files and other I'm coming to the issue of of copy right and she was saying she was holding back the the the books with a lot of illustrations because of copyright issues can you talk a little bit about I understand the one book
00:17:22one person but there is is changing format issue in copy right that is very much in flux and can you talk a little bit about what she's going to do what she thinks she can do early on and she's she's taking her steps along the way %HESITATION so
00:17:39she's actually gone she said she's going and checking back with with authors and seeing if there's anybody and happy with this said vast majority now but some people I think she called cranky I think people just getting used to what's going on we've I think what we all
00:17:53want the library of Alexandria we want as an author we want to be read we don't want to feel like we're being taken advantage of right that were all that somebody else is making money off of us and as long as we can go and show that we're
00:18:05doing a good job quality job that maybe there's no market for it or if there is a market than then you'll get paid on but people have already bought these books and as Amy pointed out the MIT press books thousands of different titles are already on some of
00:18:22these underground networks so though the book publishing industry's already had their Napster moment and it's this time is to not think that no that they are in complete control led the if if the libraries can be made part of the equation %HESITATION then they can be very useful
00:18:42part of the evolution but a publisher's really make it hard on libraries users will just touch the libraries and I think that will be worse for the whole ecosystem speaking of publishers and libraries I was and this might be a little off topic but I was wondering what
00:18:59do you make of the library publishing movement a library publishing coalition it's good it's cold in the end in which libraries are in at least an academic presses are in many cases responsible for the press in places like Michigan University Press Purdue University Press of it strikes me
00:19:18that would be natural allies for someone like you to to expand book collections and my team presses is %HESITATION a part of the MIT libraries so there is %HESITATION and not that's not the case for for everywhere I think we'll find I find I think will find this
00:19:36format shifting idea palatable in the long term I I I think it may take a little fits and starts but you know we we've been doing it for six years now it it's it's working at the act and this light lending thing is kinda lame but I have
00:19:52to say it open access is so much better on because all sorts of robots can go with no permissions just come through and didn't try out things that can be integrated in new ways atomized see all sorts of reasons to do open access this lot list some lending
00:20:10thing is kind of a middle path it's kinda what it is we can do I sure hope it's not the last step in this %HESITATION we want people to have access to the twentieth century materials because they're learning from whatever it is they get a hold of what
00:20:25they're getting a hold of isn't the best we have to offer and therefore we're gonna get the generation we deserve and I think we're seeing some of that play out now where people are while trying to understand issues and politics based on things that are the currently paid
00:20:42for points of view that are speeding pushed out there as opposed to some of the wealth of information that we have in our libraries on that is not a very accessible and that can take a real toll you've also mentioned that the obvious big winners are just patrons
00:21:00just people how do you see that involving many see this all happening where patrons are such are the other big winners in the general public is the big winner in all of this what the patients I think are paying for through their taxes and through their time is
00:21:16trying to get through to the best information contextualized as best they can and help get directions on what it is they might want to read and if we can revolutionize the library system to not only be community focussed with community centers which they're doing a great job on
00:21:36their busier than ever the can we also enable and empower our library system are librarians to affect people's online lives in a much bigger way of people are looking for good information that can require some curatorial help of some preservation help so it's not available from a publisher
00:21:57anymore to where is it it's in our libraries of that the amount of money that's spent on libraries in the United States about twelve billion dollars a year I think a third or a quarter of that goes to publishers products and that's awesome don't change that's actually serious
00:22:14money I'm I don't suggest we spend less I just suggest we spend it better if we continue to do this interlibrary loan we're just sending these books around through the mail all the time one study said that there's about three hundred million dollars a year is spent on
00:22:30interlibrary loan and most psychos UPS this is dumb this is just not smart stuff made some of that you actually have to move around fine I love my books too and I actually I I mostly read physical books if I can read something start to finish but if
00:22:45I were just one little piece or one understand it an instantaneous well why not and then you find out what you really want it because I bet a lot of these books are shipped in somebody looks at is that nope and that's three hundred million dollars I could
00:23:03be doing a lot better than spending fossil fuels trucking around so earlier you said it may be your presentation that you would data hungry so now you're building the data really in order to spread the benefits we're talking discovery yes and discovery seems to be a hard knocked
00:23:23yes %HESITATION with multiple discovery and save us from federated searches search engines and iOS is how do how do we as a community you know I don't want to get to Google I want I want something better than global but I want something is easy is go what
00:23:41direction should we be taking now that the data is starting to be building yes we need better meta data will always need better descriptors and that that will happen whether by robot door by by human but how do we get to where we really benefit who in the
00:23:57who the winners the winners will people will be people confined I'm encouraged by Google and I got I got a kick them in the shins because I thought that Google book search %HESITATION project some of it was done incorrectly they got back on course on the school search
00:24:13engine is is magic well you can just type in a couple words and you find something relevant to your subject I don't know how they do it it's magic going and saying we want to do Google again it's going to be a little hard let's go and leverage
00:24:27Google for doing what they're doing but then let's let a hundred flowers bloom let's make it so that this this stuff up okay as an example I'm so seventy eight RPM records were digitizing lots of them I turns out they didn't write the Deets on the labels and
00:24:44so that's one of the things you want to know how do we find this in their databases and so we go in and we can only get about half of the seventy eights to have dates by using the data bases and so on we just came out with
00:24:59a search engine API to the internet archive and I've been using it to search cash box magazine which was I like a Billboard magazine but with been digitized by the was Middlebury College and Middlebury College digitizes and it's on the internet archive and you can now search across
00:25:16all of those issues for the catalog on number in the publisher in the in the artist and it's coming up with deeds up a storm so it's a different kind of used to search engine so I think I'm hoping there lots of different kinds of surgeons so we
00:25:31have social sciences and economics engineering already the of the legal guys let's go and have a Google a month come out but are specialized in different ways that are using the same information that are allowed to go and do data mining on the whole corpus arm and then
00:25:50when the end users want it they get a snippet for free alone without went out to a waiting and then if if they want the whole thing think they click tomorrow that would be a win do you see a time when all library collections are just totally digital
00:26:08and we no longer collect books print books all all all library collections be digital now I think some of the value of them is that the physicality %HESITATION but I don't I don't hear people mourning the loss of the telephone book more more things are just going digital
00:26:26and yes there might be a physical form but starting not be the point the major one is the digital so for new works going forward yeah although the physical things my work my fortune book arts right all the all sorts of you know I love books on but
00:26:43the the industry of the information communication the in the education community all of that's going digital there's the twentieth century in and before that it's going to stay in some form mixed both forms there's a role for both right now %HESITATION buying books and digitizing them is not
00:27:01a bad idea %HESITATION because we have for sale and we have right to hold it for ever where a lot of these licensing deals with the books are really peculiar fate element when the music guys from did Steve Jobs when faced on the music industry and said we
00:27:20can't make the D. R. M. systems work and you were going to have that done send these out without DRM and it's going to be ninety nine cents god bless and and he made it so that now you can go to Amazon and you can buy an MP
00:27:34three but right now you can go to an end Amazon by and non rates encumbered %HESITATION IPAB so the the book publishing industry is behind the music industry which isn't a good place to radio think of the music industry is as been having been very %HESITATION so I
00:27:55think that we have to move the book publishing industry along so that we buying ebooks and we buy what we can scandal we have two one helping the publishing industry move in that twenty how do think libraries can can help with that are are with their pocketbooks I'd
00:28:14think that three or four billion dollars let's have libraries by eat books in the same sense the bot physical books my parents are trustworthy and maybe even so conservative that they ops all much that they actually trade off conservative miss against their patrons interests but let's trust people
00:28:34with information on the the music industry finally started coming around %HESITATION after this Anne every industries different %HESITATION but I think we've got to move that forward but the missing century those things will never be published in a pub form %HESITATION that's just is not enough of a
00:28:53market region of to be they just have to be digitized and made available under some controlled circulation system such that people freak out and if there's something that really becomes popular it gets put back in imprint and then people can buy lots of copies but until then we
00:29:07have a few copies at least circulate maybe maybe will have with the book industry is what happened with the US sound industry people just did it and then the industry came around when it was it was effectively people just copying stuff and finally the book industry I mean
00:29:25the the audio industry said okay nightgown asks after zero it's sort of a turning point for them right that's happened in the book industry it's called library genesis and at least for the college kids there is a real alternative on their site hope I understand is also majorly
00:29:41used I'm not saying it's good or bad it's just what's happened and I'd say that's incident occasions that there's been some market failure that there's a UNC satisfied need is not just for free books people seem to be perfectly happy to watch things on Netflix if they are
00:29:58beamed into your home on and pay for it so I think there's lots of money to be made people understand the value we just need to do some things a little bit differently that's are mostly on a going forward basis and I'm on a non profits I mostly
00:30:13working on the head of the public interest or are you also working on a set of your focus right now is on the set of time that is that is it is a hole in our collection in our digital collection yes yes how do we go in and
00:30:27%HESITATION and bring this these these things up up up and out my grandfather was a a was it was a writer and the hockey either of these wonderful self help books back in the thirties and forties and there were way out of print way out of print %HESITATION
00:30:44I have one copy I have two sons and we really going to only have one copy go to one son sorry this doesn't make any sense so going in digitizing these things and making them as available as we can I hate it when this occurs when there's a
00:31:01commercial interests that's when we should start to to gripe %HESITATION but it's we've I think we've gotten ourselves into not in such a way that the libraries are not playing the role they could in this digital transmission I do have one final question is %HESITATION it's not exactly
00:31:18a trick question but is it a question where if you were sitting in Alberta in my chair what question would you ask yourself %HESITATION how can libraries take the first step what where how do you take that how do you put your toe in the water where where's
00:31:39where's the role and I've seen a lot of people try to come get through this there's a new over the nervousness there's usually sort of while my allowed to or what and people just don't know quite what their role and responsibility as I would have I have some
00:31:54suggestions I think try things from within your world that makes sense to do the first thing I take something that is your own communities interest their websites or something has been published locally and cry going and digitizing and make it will try to take on somebody with %HESITATION
00:32:15what was sight impairment maybe a dyslexia and just just hasn't handed to them and say well is that all who rates in covering stuff that we're supposed to wanted to get going on send some books to the internet archives regional scanning centers we'll do it ten Bucks hundred
00:32:33Bucks dom for free just do it just to get sort of an idea of how does that process work kick some tires I think get off the beach and into the water and that's on the digitizing front ongoing use the open libraries website if your library has either
00:32:51a list of ISBNs that we can go on match we can make a collection of what do we already have that overlaps with yours so you get a little branded thing we did this with Delaware County library on in Ohio and they were thrilled is like well there's
00:33:05our books on your site that we can have our patrons borrow right away and it's easy just get going I'm Brewster and archive dot org open libraries dot online is the library's website archived at work or open library dot org all of these things citizens action was to
00:33:26search on Google diving so we should send you or communicate with you about the holdings of our libraries and a way to send you that she into the overlap studying she what's interesting that's and that's a way to start a bomb digitize some things make them available had
00:33:46to borrow a book or go to archive dot org and hit the upload but just take something that you know take menus from your local ordered it and then the public library sense and academic libraries it'll be something different %HESITATION and academic libraries are mostly interested in the
00:34:01journal interest her or not really working on that as part of this program so this program is really focused on monographs but why don't we just get through the monographs and it could be done very quickly as we can work together on this we've digitized three million books
00:34:16already we're looking to do we've done five hundred thousand modern books Jr post nineteen twenty three well again in another four million at that point we have a Boston public library Yale at Princeton all online then matching it up with library catalogs through OCLC record number matches or
00:34:34wood library links of the area then that's great we will also were interested in %HESITATION de accession to books so people are are reading all will pay for that box someone and ship them and all we're interested in one copy of everything we don't have and will digitize
00:34:51those and make those back available but not just a books music video seventy eight RPM records of those CD's LP's we want all media so we have the funding to digitize everything we own I think they're going to be a couple other big libraries ago and say you
00:35:07know we're going to be a Big Boy too and we're going to digitize everything we own that somebody else has a digitized so I think they're going to be a bunch of us that have major holdings that come from our collections almost all the rest are going to
00:35:20be used based on other people's digitization work as you were talking one final question came up in my mind and it's have you do you have any partnerships with institutional repositories from university libraries better risk digitizing all manner of of all my links yeah they're off site repositories
00:35:43are are are collect things is sort of the shared print things to try to winnow down to make sure things we have conversations with them so there's a one in a big university and and not in Canada that's looking as they moved their materials to an offsite repository
00:35:58to actually scanned them as they go through so it's a way of of thinking about how do you go and give some access to those materials to everybody in the world but also to their faculty and students %HESITATION to go and make it so does not just a
00:36:14deep deep dark pit they're not just rattling their books they're actually offering new digital access and physical preservation and all we would love to do this with all folks Brister thank you so much for taking I go I guess it taking time out of your schedule and and
00:36:32sharing your thoughts and ideas with us we've learned a tremendous amount thank you very much appreciate the opportunity %HESITATION that's it for this episode if you have comments or questions you can click the contacts button in the upper right side of the podcast website or you can email
00:36:55me directly at Leah at Charleston library conference dot com that smell each age Austin library conference dot com hear from you soon podcast brought to you in part liberated syndication I can't for more information about liberated syndicate LFB that's right dot com

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