Full Transcript for Dr. John Cuddeback on Technology, Family and the Traditional Household

incredible book, The Intentional Household. 00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:30.079 Um so, in an age marked by distraction, fragmentation, and deteriorating family life, the intentional household offers a hopeful and deeply practical vision for families seeking stability, purpose, and joy. 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:36.720 Um, it's a compelling new book on rebuilding family life and reclaiming the home as the center of meaningful human living. 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:38.319 Um, so Dr. 00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:41.759 John, um, why did you decide to write this book? 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:47.120 And how long have you been reflecting on the ideas that you share in it? 00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:49.519 Well, um, great question. 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:56.720 I um I've been reflecting specifically on these questions for about a decade. 00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:03.120 Obviously, to some extent, as soon as you get married, you I I mean, I am a rather reflective, intentional person. 00:06:03.199 --> 00:06:09.920 So I certainly have been having conversations about these kinds of things with my wife for much longer. 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:33.600 But I'm a philosophy professor, and there came a point 10, 12 years ago, where I said, you know, um, I I really think I I need to make this more of a specific focus of my teaching and my research because I I discovered it's no great unusual discovery there. 00:06:33.759 --> 00:06:43.199 Wow, this really is more challenging for all of us than I realized, and it really has more and more turned into the issue of our age. 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:47.759 So I've been working and literally writing the book, took me about eight years. 00:06:48.079 --> 00:06:49.759 But why did I write it? 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:58.319 I I like to put it this way: there's kind of two things that I saw that are that are complementary that make the book, I think, very, very important. 00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:01.120 First of all, is something that's negative. 00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:05.759 We need to live in the truth and recognize just how challenging the world we live in is. 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:09.360 Everybody has a general sense of wow, it's wow, it's hard. 00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:32.319 It's worth our time to focus and to see sometimes in detail or in what specific ways the common habits of our culture, assumptions, practices are working to either directly or indirectly undermine our living out God's plan for marriage and the household. 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:33.439 And St. 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:39.600 Jean-Paul II, your patron, patron of mine, calls it uh a culture of death. 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:42.079 That's a very strong term. 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:47.839 That's not just a throwaway line, it's not just referring to, gosh, we have the horror of abortion and so forth. 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:57.279 It means that fundamental structures of how we live are acting against the most important parts of God's plan for our flourishing and happiness. 00:07:57.439 --> 00:08:17.360 And this shows up in ways that I think even very aware people who are pious and are trying to do something different are not seeing, are not as tuned in as we need to be to the to the kind of the specificities of how difficult it is now. 00:08:17.519 --> 00:08:20.079 So that is very much moving me on the one side. 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:33.840 And on the other side, I am blessed, you know, in the hundreds and thousands of people that I teach, and then I lecture quite a bit, and so I speak a lot with families of all ages. 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:35.679 The Holy Spirit is at work. 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:48.559 There are so many people, and I'm especially moved by young people getting married, who know they want something very different, but kind of this common mantra of them is but I haven't really seen it done the way I that I want to do it. 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:51.840 I know I want something different, but I'm not exactly sure what that is. 00:08:52.000 --> 00:09:13.039 So this book is just very much um written with these people in mind of what what are the principles, what the truths are going to empower them to be able to really think this through and to be able to address how do we live in its fullness God's plan for us in these especially challenging times? 00:09:14.240 --> 00:09:14.879 Yes. 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:29.440 Um, you know, bridging a little bit on that, you know, I know that you argue that uh modern society, you know, today, this this world that we're living in, it's gradually dismantled the household really as the center of daily life. 00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:31.919 Um why why do you say this? 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:34.080 And and how do you think we got here? 00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:40.720 Yeah, and and I I'm glad you asked that because having historical perspective is important. 00:09:40.879 --> 00:09:56.480 Part of how I'll answer that, Belle, is to say that kind of my whole life growing up, people in the kind of conservative communities that I moved in, it was kind of taken for granted that the 1950s was a kind of golden age of the family. 00:09:56.639 --> 00:10:02.000 And and I don't know whether people now are familiar with the television show called Leave It to Beaver. 00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:07.360 Um, but it was uh it was uh it was a kind of in the 60s. 00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:20.639 In any case, it portrayed a kind of quote traditional family that does have many things that most families or many families today don't have. 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:25.039 But people thought, okay, they they're the traditional, that's the traditional thing. 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:38.559 That you know, dad gets up in the morning, he gets his briefcase, and he leaves, he comes back at home, you know, you know, for dinner, wife has his dinner on the table, you know, kind of pats on the head, children on the head, maybe reads them a little bit, and everybody goes to bed. 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:44.559 In many ways, that is more intact

than what people have now. 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:56.159 But but my own studies and then life experience have kind of revealed for me an historical awareness of that is still a very much what I'm going to call a post-industrial family. 00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:06.000 The real traditional household is actually something that is more remote from us, more difficult for us to picture. 00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:13.759 This really thriving community of daily life, which is a productive place. 00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:29.120 It's a place that has so much life going on in ordinary ways, where in general the husband and father is actually much more involved than the fathers in the 1950s were able to be, given that structure. 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:34.320 This is part of what I call the evisceration, understanding the evisceration of the household. 00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:50.879 So much of the normal daily activity, working together, leisure together, sitting around the fire, eating together, working outside, interacting with the earth, interacting with neighbors, sitting on the porch, singing around the piano. 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:59.200 These things should be normal and ordinary, and they have left the home. 00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:03.679 So, so exactly how, I mean, it has to do with a number of things. 00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:09.519 You could point to things like the Industrial Revolution was a big part of that, but I'm going to go to another thing really quickly. 00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:14.879 We have uh the inverted the hierarchy of values. 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:16.879 Aristotle has a great line. 00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:22.639 He says a society will tend to produce the kind of people that it honors. 00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:27.840 Society will tend to produce the kind of people that it honors. 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.519 We don't honor people for prioritizing household. 00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:46.240 We honor people for making a lot of money, or you know, becoming becoming famous in in the arts, for being a professional athlete, for becoming a supermodel. 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:51.279 This is what we honor, and this is what we tend to produce. 00:12:51.840 --> 00:13:01.440 And but by this inversion of the hierarchy of values, we don't really value those amazing, rich goods that come of the home life. 00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:07.840 And so that's why the structures of our life have turned away from home. 00:13:08.159 --> 00:13:16.000 Because only if you really honor those things will we have the structures that encourage and empower them. 00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:20.879 So I think that's an important aspect of seeing how we got where we are. 00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:22.399 Definitely. 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:27.759 Um no, and and I really love how you phrased all of that. 00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:33.200 Um, I just I can feel I felt it so deeply because it's obviously so true. 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:50.080 Um, I I know that especially like as a younger person, you know, I'm in my 30s and I see so many um of my friends putting so much value, as you were saying, on their careers, on how much money they can make on their status. 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:52.960 Um, and it's just such a big challenge, of course. 00:13:53.039 --> 00:14:02.639 It's and along with a month a lot of other things, but I think that uh is a lot that I have seen, you know, just at the forefront of my own like friend group and peers and family as well. 00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:04.000 So yeah. 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:09.360 Um well your book is subtitled Um Living As If People Matter. 00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:23.200 Um, are there ways in which changes in our domestic lives, you know, and I think this kind of goes along with what you were just saying, but are there ways in which changes in our domestic lives have led us to live as if people don't matter? 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:25.679 Yes, and indeed. 00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:34.480 And I think and I think that that in certain ways really gets us to the heart of what we were just talking about, and it kind of allows us to dig into it more. 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:51.440 Part of a beautiful part of the traditional understanding, going back to Aristotle and be and and others, of what a household is, is it's a community that is always this sounds like a throwaway line, but I almost want to beg the listener, lean into it. 00:14:51.519 --> 00:15:00.480 Sometimes we need to look again at what seems obvious and realize anew the astounding and challenging implications of it. 00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:06.720 Household is always, by its nature, fundamentally about relationship. 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:16.080 It's about how people live in profound, challenging, demanding, very rich relationships. 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:27.039 The spousal relationship, anyone who's been married for any length of time knows, is astoundingly rich, demanding, multifaceted. 00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:31.759 And this this should be much more central. 00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:36.799 Actually, how do we work out marriage? 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:45.679 Marriage has to be built, it has to be enacted in the home, the household as a community is the natural context. 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:48.559 God is designed for that to take place. 00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:52.080 It's always about people, it's always about relationships. 00:15:52.399 --> 00:16:00.559 Again, so many people recognize this in theory, but we don't live this way in practice. 00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:18.799 I don't know if you remember the song The Cats in the Cradle, but it's a very powerful song that captures something that is far too common of the child who has grown up, and and I'm just gonna put it this way he doesn't have a relationship with his father. 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:27.279 Home is about relationships, and I'm gonna say something that that is is gonna be a little bit painful right now. 00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:36.080 I teach at a wonderful college where I have astounding students,

but I'm gonna say something here that we all need to reckon with. 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:46.799 It still is very unusual that I meet young people who will say, I have a strong relationship with my father. 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:50.559 Not to mention their mother. 00:16:51.919 --> 00:17:01.919 Part of the thing, even in in households where people are really trying to do something different, we really find it difficult to develop that real deep connection. 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:09.440 Are our teenagers really coming to us when they're having a challenge that that you know, a big challenge? 00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:13.359 And okay, they they have a crush on someone, or they're they're in some type of relationship. 00:17:13.519 --> 00:17:14.880 What what what's going on here? 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:20.400 They're struggling, they're struggling with whatever they're struggling with, morally, socially, culturally. 00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:36.319 Parents aren't the only solution, but only if we have a certain kind of relationship with them that has been fostered and cultivated in very ordinary rich ways are is is that going to really come out as it should at that time. 00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:52.160 So what I'm what what I'm saying here is living as if people matter is is pointing to, are we really prioritizing those relationships the way that they demand to be prioritized for everybody's good? 00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:53.680 Yeah. 00:17:53.839 --> 00:18:06.400 Um and and digging into that a little bit more, I know that you're, you know, it's it's hard to build those enduring relationships today, not just with our family, but in our communities, in our workspace. 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:15.200 Um why do you think it's so hard to build those foundational relationships, even especially with our family? 00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:20.480 Well, I'm I I the main word I'm gonna use here is context. 00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:25.519 I love a line from Wendell Berry, recently deceased, God rest his soul. 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:33.680 He said, Living things call for a conducive context in order to flourish. 00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:36.799 There's a profound wisdom in this. 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:43.920 All living things, which obviously includes us, call for a conducive context if they're gonna flourish. 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:47.759 Most of life's lessons, many of them in a case, can be learned in a garden. 00:18:48.559 --> 00:19:00.640 The plants in my garden are only gonna flourish if I make my garden be the kind of place that suits their nature and their needs. 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:17.920 A household well done, well crafted, especially by a husband and wife who are very intentional in crafting it, is precisely a context that is conducive to relationship. 00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:40.240 That's one way of seeing what husbands and wives should be speaking about every day and praying about, thinking, how do we make this our daily context, first of all, conducive to our really connecting with one another and building the kind of relationship that only comes from being crafted together? 00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:56.559 How are we going to make our household a place that's truly conducive to our children having good relationships with us, our children have good relationships with one another, and any who come and interface with us, the older generation, with grandparents, with friends, with neighbors. 00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:00.960 Home should be crafted in such a way that it's a place of relationship. 00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:03.759 And here, here is the key, Bell. 00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:07.279 Here's the great truth that's so easy to miss. 00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:12.319 Unfortunately, though, also fairly straightforward to rediscover and enact. 00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:22.720 It's our loss of the ordinary activities that should and normally did characterize households that tend to make it be that context that it needs to be. 00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:30.240 This is why eating together regularly and in a certain kind of way is not peripheral. 00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:32.720 It's not just nice, it's essential. 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:48.240 This is why our having certain kinds of rich leisure time, that's not a throwaway, that takes especially today cultivation, is necessary as the context where we really speak, hear, and are heard. 00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:51.440 Certain kind of shared work in the home. 00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:56.640 Our homes, we're constantly, as I like to say, there's so many centrifugal forces at work. 00:20:56.799 --> 00:20:59.519 Centrifugal literally means fleeing the center. 00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:05.279 We're at soccer, we're here, we're there, we're running everyone to some extent. 00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:09.920 That given the world we live in, to some extent running around is going to be necessary. 00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:14.559 But we have to understand that takes a toll and it must be addressed. 00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:22.400 We must restore a certain center of life to be that context where people connect. 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:29.599 Too many of us are living in isolation and loneliness, even while we're trying and not aware. 00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:31.279 Wow. 00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:31.920 Yeah. 00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:41.440 Um I everything you're saying, I'm just like, oh my gosh, like it's almost like it's awakening some a part of my brain. 00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:46.720 Um and I know, so you mentioned like eating together as a family. 00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:55.119 Um I was very fortunate where I ate dinner with my parents and my brother every night growing up. 00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:59.599 And I feel like that's something that I never even really realized was such a crucial building. 00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:02.880 Um, especially in my childhood. 00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:06.319 And a lot of my friends didn't have that. 00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:14.720 Um, so yeah, that's just one of those things, as you know, I I

feel like almost goes unnoticed, but it it really is so impactful. 00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:16.400 Um yeah. 00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:21.519 Well, I know in the book you describe the home as the school of responsibility. 00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:23.839 Um, can you share what you mean by that? 00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:26.319 I sure, I I sure will. 00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:42.000 I think this is again one of those things I take almost any major problem that we see in not just young people, and young people is maybe just where it's most obvious, but in our in in people today. 00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:50.799 And it's gonna be in some very important way gonna be traceable to what is or is not going on in our homes. 00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:53.920 I'm around young people all the time. 00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:55.039 I love them. 00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:58.559 But let me say something that isn't gonna shock anybody. 00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:06.240 One very serious aspect is, if I may be a little bit flippant, with them, it's always someone else's fault. 00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:10.960 I mean, it it's it's just or oh well, yeah, gosh. 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:22.480 Yeah, no, I didn't, I don't, don't, you know, I don't have my homework done because, and then you just get this list, you know, whether it's whether it's my alarm didn't go off, and what am I supposed to say? 00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:26.400 Bring in your alarm, and I'm gonna talk to your alarm about this, right? 00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:39.279 I mean, it's just it's it's just unbelievable how like it's second nature to people to just like unconsciously be pointing at all these other things. 00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:40.880 They don't take responsibility. 00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:51.039 Talk to anyone who's trying to employ people from one end of employment to the other, just to find people that are actually reliable. 00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:53.599 All right, enough said, we get the point. 00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:58.319 Well, household is the home of responsibility. 00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:05.759 The most important responsibility is always for people and relationship. 00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:18.400 And if we aren't taking responsibility for the context of our home, for the sake of the relationships in it, then the root of responsibility has been lost. 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:40.160 Broadly speaking, I I just broad stroke, I'd put it this way: in an age when adult men and women are not taking responsibility for prioritizing life in the home, which is what people really need, that is the root of everybody's irresponsibility. 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:47.359 I don't care how responsible you are at your profession, where, and again, this goes back to the hierarchy of values. 00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:49.519 This is where you get compensated. 00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:52.720 This is where you get um honored. 00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:54.559 This is where you get praised. 00:24:54.799 --> 00:24:59.440 We don't praise people for being responsible in

their home. 00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:05.359 And so, alas, unfortunately, many people learn to be more responsible out there. 00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:10.559 Meanwhile, I I hope, Bell, I'm not trying to be negative. 00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:24.799 There's so much to be hopeful about, but I like to say this true hope means you see the challenge you're facing, and you with hope address it and trust in God and you move forward. 00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:26.880 And we must always live in the truth. 00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:43.279 We don't harp on it, we don't on problems, we don't complain, but we must recognize this aspect of too many of us are not taking that first response, taking responsibility for our spiritual life, taking responsibility for making our home a certain kind of context. 00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:49.200 When we put first things first, all other forms of responsibility are gonna fall into place. 00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:53.920 Yeah, um, and I don't I don't think it's negative at all. 00:25:54.079 --> 00:26:08.400 Um, I think that's definitely a stro something that a lot of people, of course, myself, um, you know, admittedly, um, struggles with is pointing the finger at yourself and saying, you know, oh, this one's on me. 00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:11.519 Um, so yeah, no, I think that's very well put. 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:18.319 Um well, I know you also make an important distinction between true leisure and mere amusements. 00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:20.960 Um, can you talk a little bit more about that? 00:26:21.759 --> 00:26:24.880 You're asking me all the questions I would have hoped you would. 00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:26.319 Um thank you. 00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:40.559 The um uh in the home, I like to say, well, in human life, Aristotle says that there's basically two main forms of activities that we do, but then ultimately three. 00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:43.599 The two most important are work and leisure. 00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:47.039 There's another that we can call amusement. 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:52.319 Amusement is less serious, it has its place and it's very important. 00:26:53.279 --> 00:27:00.400 Work is an activity that is extremely important, very serious, gets us things that we need, takes care of people. 00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:06.400 But ultimately, it's clear that work are not the ultimate most important activities. 00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:07.680 They're very important. 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:14.160 But ultimately there have to be activities, to get philosophical for a moment, that have their meaning, as it were, in themselves. 00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:15.599 They're more for their own sake. 00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:19.599 They're more the activities that work makes possible. 00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:24.079 So this is the traditional understanding of uh of man. 00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:41.759 This goes back to uh human nature, that there's certain kinds of activities, virtuous living, contemplative activity, resting in the loving presence of one another, knowing God, praising God, rich conversation. 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:44.799 These activities have their meaning in themselves. 00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:48.640 They're what work ultimately makes possible. 00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:54.400 Now, but we've lost a sense of those richer kinds of activities. 00:27:54.640 --> 00:28:00.000 We've become obsessed with work alone, in some sense, made it an end in itself. 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:04.799 And then we're also obsessed with amusement. 00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:10.720 The way I'd put it make the philosophical point and then and then apply it to the household. 00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:21.519 One way of saying a civilizational crisis is having kind of lost a sense of the importance and priority of those richer kind of activities that we call leisure activities. 00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:28.160 We still use the word leisure, but we what we actually use it for is what Aristotle would have called amusement. 00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:38.880 It's like, it's like just get a break and go and have fun, you know, you know, have have a party, go to the amusement park, go on vacation, watch television, play a video game. 00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:48.160 It's like I get off work and now I get to just kind of amuse myself and then go back to work. 00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:52.720 Too many households kind of live this way. 00:28:52.960 --> 00:29:08.079 We've got a lot of work to do, and then we need a break, and we kind of turn to amusement in its most common form today, entertainment, which almost always in some way is canned entertainment. 00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:12.400 It's not something that we are able to kind of even produce ourselves. 00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:15.039 We more just consume it. 00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:19.839 We've lost the real linchpin of that richer kind of activity. 00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:22.559 This goes back to things that used to be ordinary. 00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:28.079 Having a meal, lingering after the meal, having a conversation about life. 00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:30.079 That's a form of leisure. 00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:33.680 But but we tend not to do that anymore. 00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:41.200 Porch time was sure, sometimes maybe it was just whatever, shooting the breeze, not doing anything particularly significant. 00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:45.359 Maybe at times there was amusement, and sometimes on the porch people would do work. 00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:52.960 But a key aspect of porch time was grandma's telling a story right now about where she's from. 00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:56.000 She's saying something about the meaning of life. 00:29:56.240 --> 00:30:05.759 She's she's sharing something that we all kind of plug into, not as though we're in a classroom, but we're together in one of the richest ways that human beings are ever together. 00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:08.319 This is really, really important. 00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:14.720 It's life-giving, it's identity giving, and we don't have those times.

00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:23.039 So, key to our being intentional and renewing our home is rediscovering we need richer leisure time. 00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:31.279 And frankly, that's also going to change how we see our work, and it's going to change how we see our amusement too. 00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:35.920 Now we could talk more about that, but there's there's there's the short version. 00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:37.359 Wonderful. 00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:44.079 Um, no, and I it just again, it takes me back to eating dinner at the table. 00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:52.160 Um, I guess I in my mind I never saw it as leisure, but it's it's so true. 00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:57.680 Um, and this actually brings me to my next question, which I'm so eager to hear your thoughts on this. 00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:04.400 Um, I know that one chapter in the book is titled Channel Technology to the real good of the households. 00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:09.279 Um, and I the technology of it all is just a burning question in my brain. 00:31:09.440 --> 00:31:19.519 So, um how can families use technology for the good of the family without allowing it to dominate our family life? 00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:22.160 Great question. 00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:29.920 One of the key points of the intentional household, one of the key points I'm trying to convey in the book. 00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:32.720 We have to know the principles. 00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:38.720 We have to think more clearly, particularly given how insane our culture is. 00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:45.920 We are called upon in a way as never before to have to think clearly about the whole. 00:31:46.160 --> 00:31:55.920 In a more healthy, sane culture, there would be these things that would be in the air that we breathe, the practices that are being passed on to us. 00:31:56.160 --> 00:32:01.279 We wouldn't have all these hard decisions to make of, oh my goodness, how are we going to do entertainment? 00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:04.319 Oh my goodness, what are we gonna do about the smartphone? 00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:06.960 Are we even gonna eat together? 00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:09.200 How are we gonna figure out a way of eating together? 00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:18.880 These are all we now have to have these principles and think more clearly about them and prioritize them because of the challenge of our day. 00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:22.559 All right, so what's the what more specifically? 00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:27.920 I'm gonna put it this way the third principle and the fourth principle are about work and leisure. 00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:32.240 Then I come to the fifth principle, which is about channeling technology. 00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:42.480 We can't think clearly about how to use technology except to the extent that we have a very clear understanding of the positive life we're trying to build. 00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:49.599 This might seem obvious, but I think this is where many people, understandably, kind of fall off the boat. 00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:54.240 Kind of, oh my gosh, we're kind of so busy, it's hard to take the time to kind of figure this out. 00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:57.119 Oh my gosh, how would the principles be used to think about this? 00:32:57.200 --> 00:32:58.160 What would it even look like? 00:32:58.319 --> 00:32:59.519 We don't have good examples. 00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:01.680 What are we going to do about the technology thing? 00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:08.640 And one of the, and they tend to just start by, well, we'll say no to this and we'll say no to this, which you do have to do. 00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:16.079 We do need to be saying some very serious no's, but I love to say this because it because we need to focus on this. 00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:24.000 The no is only as good and as strong as the yes in which it is rooted. 00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:27.759 It will the no will not endure, it will not work. 00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:42.960 Telling the children they can't play video games, that they can't have a smartphone, that they can't use the computer in this way is going to go nowhere unless we are giving them something rich and positive. 00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:45.279 No, you can't use social media. 00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:50.640 How very important, especially for people of a certain age, it is to say no to it. 00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:52.640 That's exceedingly difficult for them. 00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:55.519 This is where intentional parents have to be in the zone. 00:33:55.759 --> 00:34:04.400 We we we have to, this is this is a very serious, this is warfare in a sense. 00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:17.599 We have to recognize we have to set other things aside and prioritize how are we gonna set this situation up, how are we gonna do the winning things, how are we gonna build the positive life in in good work, in true leisure, in building these relationships. 00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:21.440 So I say, think about what kind of work you want to have in the home. 00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:24.239 Think about what kind of leisure activities. 00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:29.360 Then we say, how is technology gonna fit with this? 00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:33.920 And right off the bat, it's gonna be evident there's a bunch of technologies that don't fit with it. 00:34:34.159 --> 00:34:39.360 Like for the uh the obvious things like we can't have our we can't have our phones at the table. 00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:43.920 Or in any case, they simply have to be off or someplace else. 00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:46.960 Too few families actually do this. 00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:53.360 But it if we really think about what we want to have happen at that table, we need to do that. 00:34:53.599 --> 00:34:59.760 This is part of the reason that porch time, sitting around the fire time, sitting around the piano singing time, it doesn't happen. 00:34:59.920 --> 00:35:06.719 It's because we're in the default position of these technologies that distract and take us to something else. 00:35:06.880 -->

00:35:13.840 They might not be bad in themselves, but the key thing we need to understand about that technology is it's an interrupter. 00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:21.920 It's gonna push us away and shut down or make almost impossible these richer ways of interacting. 00:35:22.159 --> 00:35:33.679 So it absolutely takes some important no's and o apostrophe s being said to these various technologies in view of this is what we do at our dinner table. 00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:36.880 This is how we work together in our kitchen. 00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:42.000 This is how these are the crafts, the home arts that we're working on together. 00:35:42.159 --> 00:35:44.400 This is how we're reading aloud together. 00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:46.480 This is how we're taking story time. 00:35:46.719 --> 00:35:48.400 This is how we're praying together. 00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:53.360 This is how we're going out and watching the stars together at night. 00:35:54.400 --> 00:36:06.400 Those positive activities that, particularly if mom and dad lead, and I'll say especially, if dad is, hey, family, this is what we're gonna do right now. 00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:12.400 Something winning, something positive, something that the father is willing to invest himself in. 00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:24.079 This goes a very long way to making everybody be invested and comfortable in being present in doing this. 00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:29.039 And that is the key step to addressing the technology question. 00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:32.880 Though, of course, there's other which technologies do we have to use? 00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:38.880 I love to say to people, if you have to use it, then this is very straightforward. 00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:43.039 Then you're gonna use it if it's a true statement that you have to use it. 00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:44.559 Just make sure that it's true. 00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:48.239 If you say, well, I have to have one of the well then, well, okay, great. 00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:49.599 Then you're gonna use it. 00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:55.440 And now, but how are we gonna then maybe minimize the the negative influence? 00:36:55.679 --> 00:37:05.199 Begin with, all right, I'm gonna use it, all right, but then how am I gonna put this in a context where I still work together to have these activities be the best they can be? 00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:05.920 What do you think, Bell? 00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:07.519 How how are we doing here? 00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:14.079 Yeah, no, I um I really like the word that you chose. 00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:25.440 I mean, it's a powerful word, but the word warfare that you used there, um, yeah, it it really does ring true, I think, especially in the younger generation. 00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:30.880 Um yeah, no, it's definitely, and I think that positive reinforcement, like you're saying. 00:37:31.360 --> 00:37:42.079 Can can I just can I just follow up on that here, here, and and and I don't want to be harsh, but I I I do think, and and and look,

not everyone's household is there a married couple at all. 00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:46.320 There's a such thing as a household of one, and there's something you can do in a household of one, too. 00:37:46.400 --> 00:37:49.679 You can still live by these principles also, or in an empty nest. 00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:55.599 Almost all of us live in a household, and these principles apply in slightly different ways. 00:37:55.760 --> 00:38:01.039 But I I would just want to say something directly to where there is a husband and father. 00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:06.480 Now more than ever, it's it's hard. 00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:08.559 Dad has to be in the zone. 00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:18.320 I go so far as to put it this way look, dad absolutely needs his friend time, but let's let's be honest and intentional even there. 00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:20.719 Make it be good, good friend time. 00:38:21.039 --> 00:38:30.639 Now, sometimes that good friend time is going to just be, you know, doing something silly and and and fun, you know, just you know, whatever, going skiing with the guys, whatever it happens to be. 00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:45.360 But at the same time, I like to say this is an age, given how especially challenging it is, that dads have to live a very disciplined life. 00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:56.000 And where they might have wanted to go just play some golf right now, they might realize in the great scheme of things, you're gonna have to give that up. 00:38:56.320 --> 00:39:06.960 You're gonna have to set aside certain things that otherwise you would have wanted to do because you need, especially, to get in the zone of prioritizing my marriage. 00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:10.639 And my children need me more than I'm able to be with them. 00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:15.199 Now, sometimes when I say that, I'll hear dad say, Hey, John, I hear you. 00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:16.719 I ain't playing golf. 00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:22.239 Let me tell you, I'm just struggling to keep my head above water, keeping all these things in order. 00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:24.400 In which case I said, brother, I hear you. 00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:25.280 I understand. 00:39:25.440 --> 00:39:28.639 I was only saying that if the shoe fits, wear it. 00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:32.480 For many others, it's gonna be, all right. 00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:40.480 I I have to make ends meet, spend this much time in my profession, and we're gonna do that with integrity. 00:39:40.639 --> 00:39:46.079 But then I'm just gonna have to be really on the top of my game of how am I gonna order the rest of my time? 00:39:46.239 --> 00:39:50.079 How am I being savvy, working with my wife, thinking it through? 00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:57.599 How are we coming up with activities that both support our marriage and support our presence with the children? 00:39:57.840 --> 00:40:08.079 It it it's a as long as it's a consistent topic of reflection and prayer and discernment, the Lord's gonna bless it and it's gonna bear great fruit.

00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:10.639 Absolutely. 00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:12.960 Um wow, yeah. 00:40:13.039 --> 00:40:22.480 And I know in the the much latter part of of your book also deals with bringing our elderly relatives into our home. 00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:34.239 So on top of everything else, you know, why why does our our modern culture resist having multicultural households or multi-excuse me generational households? 00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:35.280 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:38.400 Yeah, there's there's so many things there. 00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:47.440 Um features of what we have prioritized work against an appreciation of the elderly. 00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:57.519 Part of it is our lack of a sense of true leisure and our and and our um distorted view of amusement. 00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:11.119 We even we tend to think old age or qu slash retirement, you know, is more about okay, now I get to go and do these various fun things. 00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:28.239 Rather than this is the time where the fruit is really ripening of the ways that we've been cultivating, growing in wisdom, growing in virtue, knowing how to live life well in relationships. 00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:32.239 And now it's come to the point where it's time to share that. 00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:36.800 We have a problem in attitude, in other words, Bell, I think on both sides. 00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:47.679 Often the those getting to the quote golden years are too much in the zone of, well, I don't I don't do the household thing anymore. 00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:50.320 I'm more in my retirement mode. 00:41:50.559 --> 00:41:53.760 And that and that's a problem in attitude on their side. 00:41:53.920 --> 00:42:05.119 And then there's a problem in attitude on the younger side of not thinking in terms of we are asking, we are calling for your involvement here. 00:42:05.199 --> 00:42:08.639 It's not just I need help doing the dishes or babysitting the kids. 00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:18.000 We we need you and thus want you involved in our life, in our household to the extent possible, given our situation in life. 00:42:18.239 --> 00:42:22.400 This has always been a very significant part of households. 00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:35.280 And again, it's because we're prioritizing the wrong things that we've set up a situation where we tend to be far away, we're so mobile, everything's moving so quickly, and everyone's involved in so many other things. 00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:40.880 It more just not that people are saying, who cares about grandma and grandpa? 00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:44.320 But it's more just it gets squeezed out. 00:42:44.719 --> 00:43:00.480 This is why we need an intentional household, living as if people matter, where part of that is for all of our sake, for the sake of the aging, for the sake of the very young, for the sake of those in their prime. 00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:07.440 We need to be having much more presence with one another, much more living together. 00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:12.480 And the household has got to be the fundamental place where that happens. 00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:14.079 So, we what does this mean? 00:43:14.239 --> 00:43:15.679 It means we need to take concrete steps. 00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:21.440 According to our situation, like, well, it what if what if what if grandparents slash parents don't live nearby? 00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:24.320 Well, okay, then we're gonna have to deal with that. 00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:25.679 But what do we do? 00:43:25.840 --> 00:43:27.840 What can we do given all things? 00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:33.119 Prudence is always gonna govern the situation, but at least at least we're discerning, at least we're act asking. 00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:35.280 How can we get them more involved? 00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:40.400 Is it is it going on a visit, certain kinds of visits that prioritize a certain kind of presence? 00:43:40.639 --> 00:43:53.840 Maybe it's not it's not just our parents or grandparents, it can be other elderly or aging members of the community that are kind of like mentors that are kind of the wise ones to which we can go. 00:43:54.079 --> 00:43:59.760 We need to have much more of our eye open for ways of integrating that into our daily life and. 00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:01.360 Conveying that to our children. 00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:03.280 Yeah. 00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:15.199 How do you think a multi-generational household can influence a family's faith life in particular, especially when there's, you know, kids in the home? 00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:16.880 Right. 00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:26.480 And let me just make this clear, you know, Belle, when I say multi-generational, I by and large, I think now have having it's at least always worth asking the question. 00:44:26.639 --> 00:44:33.039 Sometimes this is demanded by necessity that an aging parent come live in the home, literally live with us. 00:44:33.440 --> 00:44:34.719 That's not super common. 00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:37.119 And there are various things that make that difficult. 00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:39.199 And let's recognize that. 00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:43.920 Often that's not either possible, or even if it were possible, it's not the right answer. 00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:47.360 But we still should be in some sense. 00:44:52.480 --> 00:44:54.480 Forgive me if I don't remember his name to give him. 00:44:54.719 --> 00:44:57.679 He wrote uh several books about parenting. 00:44:58.480 --> 00:45:01.440 It's in my book, Bonds Across Generations. 00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:05.599 We should be living a household that has bonds across generations. 00:45:05.840 --> 00:45:11.840 So they're not necessarily right there, but they're integrated in whatever way we possibly can. 00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:13.440 You ask how that affects faith. 00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:14.239 Great question. 00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:23.039 It affects all of these most important things because in God's plan, doesn't always pan out this way, and we

have to act according to circumstances. 00:45:23.199 --> 00:45:33.360 In God's plan, the aging often have made more progress in their faith life, in their growing in wisdom, in their through their life experience. 00:45:33.599 --> 00:45:38.800 And they're able to pass that on very often in rich ways in the household. 00:45:39.280 --> 00:45:42.000 Often, of course, they also start to have more time. 00:45:42.239 --> 00:45:44.239 Hopefully they are praying more. 00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:46.239 Hopefully they are patterning that. 00:45:46.559 --> 00:45:53.599 For a while, we did have my wife's grandmother live in our home with us when she was quite old. 00:45:53.760 --> 00:45:57.039 And she was praying the rosary basically all the time. 00:45:57.920 --> 00:45:58.880 This is fitting. 00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:00.079 This isn't a caricature. 00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:05.840 This is this is this is part of the natural rhythm that patterns something for us. 00:46:06.079 --> 00:46:08.079 It invites us into it. 00:46:08.239 --> 00:46:12.000 It's an open to certain opening to certain kinds of conversation. 00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:14.719 Grandma in our house, it was Bapsia. 00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:18.239 Tell us, tell us something about, you know, whatever it is. 00:46:18.480 --> 00:46:29.760 So that's so this unending richness that unless we're intentional in in kind of arranging things, it's probably not going to happen. 00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:31.840 Yeah. 00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:42.719 Um, when you were talking about uh when you said it's not a caricature, uh, it just it made another memory pop up in my head of um of my grandmother. 00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:46.159 Um because I mean it's very true. 00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:57.199 I have some incre I I we lived with my grandparents for a while when I was in my early teenage years, and I have a lot of just images in my mind of her. 00:46:57.360 --> 00:47:06.719 She was a dedicated gardener, and she would always be outside, and very often she'd be out there praying for a couple hours, and that was her how she spent her morning. 00:47:06.800 --> 00:47:07.440 She would go out. 00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:11.920 Um, so yeah, no, that and that's rub, that's you know, sits in my brain. 00:47:12.239 --> 00:47:14.000 So that's definitely I'm sure we're gonna be able to do that. 00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:15.599 Can we stick with very quickly? 00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:17.519 Just can we just thank you? 00:47:17.599 --> 00:47:20.559 And can we just it isn't it interesting? 00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:24.239 There's certain things you tend to hear about the grandparents. 00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:28.320 She was a gardener, as was my wife's grandmother. 00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:34.400 A few generations ago, vastly more people were gardeners. 00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:56.960 And gardening is not to be underestimated as a profound form of human living, of human working, of human being together, even uh providing also some leisure too, that is it it doesn't fit in absolutely every household. 00:47:57.519 --> 00:48:04.480 But uh Xenophon, a contemporary of Plato, called agriculture the mother of all arts. 00:48:05.360 --> 00:48:13.360 Cultivating the earth, Wendell Barry said connection with the earth is what especially happens in your home. 00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:15.679 Home is situated in a place. 00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:21.039 We especially experience ourselves as bodily beings by certain kinds of work we do in the home. 00:48:21.280 --> 00:48:27.679 I love to recommend, consider if possible, doesn't all come back to this, it doesn't work for everybody. 00:48:27.920 --> 00:48:38.719 But the art me of cultivating the earth, one of the beautiful things is that you can start young and you can keep doing it when you're quite old. 00:48:38.960 --> 00:48:42.239 So it particularly lends itself to mentoring. 00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:44.000 Mentoring is much more important. 00:48:44.079 --> 00:48:52.639 We our young people need their grandparents to be doing much more than just give them candy and a check on their birthday. 00:48:54.159 --> 00:48:54.480 Yes. 00:48:54.639 --> 00:49:00.800 Although the candy part is great, but I think on the birthday is great too. 00:49:01.360 --> 00:49:02.079 You're right. 00:49:03.599 --> 00:49:06.239 No, um, I'm glad you went into that a little bit more. 00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:08.400 No, um, that's beautiful. 00:49:08.559 --> 00:49:25.519 Um so I'd love to know um, are there any writers or or artists, since we're talking more about the creative side, you know, are are there any writers or artists or or thinkers maybe who can inspire our listeners to create an intentional households uh with their families? 00:49:26.320 --> 00:49:28.960 Well, that's it that that's a great question. 00:49:29.039 --> 00:49:30.719 There's so many different aspects of it. 00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:38.960 I will just say um Wendell Berry wrote both fiction and he wrote essays that have helped me. 00:49:39.280 --> 00:49:46.079 My wife and I just did a podcast called How Wendell Berry Changed Our Household. 00:49:46.320 --> 00:50:11.519 He's not a Catholic thinker, and I I am not in agreement with every principle that he has, but he was uh he's a very unique American thinker and writer, he was, um, that um captures so much so beautifully in an American context, which is more accessible to us than often reading about an old European context or whatever. 00:50:11.760 --> 00:50:36.400 Um so he has he both his fiction books like Hannah Coulter that show very much what it looks like to have certain kinds of communities, certain kinds of households, um, and and essays of his, like his book, What Are People For, or The Unsettling of America, um, give a fascinating angle into he says things like the home arts are the foundation of all arts. 00:50:36.639 --> 00:50:50.320 So he's he's an author particularly like I'm gonna switch it up completely and go to a to a Catholic German philosopher of the 20th century,

Joseph Pieper, his book Leisure, the Basis of Culture, his book In Tune with the World, A Theory of Festivity. 00:50:50.400 --> 00:51:01.280 Now, these are these are a little more philosophical, but they give the kind of principles um that uh that ground this kind of richer worldview. 00:51:01.519 --> 00:51:11.119 Frankly, the point of my book is to try to take that those philosophical principles and make them a little bit more uh a little bit more accessible. 00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:24.719 But I think a kind of full court approach of, you know, there's a real resurgence in talking about the home arts and you know, the YouTube videos that can help you figure out how to do a lot of things in your home. 00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:33.199 That that that is worth, you know, that to me is using technology to recover certain of those kind of lost home arts. 00:51:33.360 --> 00:51:33.840 Boom. 00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:37.119 That's where we're channeling technology to the good of the home. 00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:40.639 So that that'd be another thing I would I would suggest there. 00:51:41.760 --> 00:51:42.719 Definitely. 00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:46.400 Um well, thank you so much, um, Dr. 00:51:46.639 --> 00:51:46.960 John. 00:51:47.119 --> 00:51:52.400 And you know, as we're wrapping up today, we always like to end on kind of a fun personal question. 00:51:52.559 --> 00:52:03.440 Um, so I'd love to ask, what are some of your favorite ways and your wife's favorite ways, even uh, to make your own house a home where your family can thrive and encounter the goodness of God? 00:52:04.320 --> 00:52:14.800 Well, um I I would say uh particularly in the realm, two quick things of food and of reading aloud together. 00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:19.679 We are big reading aloud together, both in our marriage and our honeymoon. 00:52:19.760 --> 00:52:23.599 We started by, we read Tolkien's Lord of the Rings out loud together. 00:52:23.679 --> 00:52:26.159 Um, and we've always tried to continue that spirit. 00:52:26.239 --> 00:52:34.800 And you know, whether it's reading the Chronicles of Narnia out loud with the children, just being together through reading, being together through how we do food. 00:52:35.039 --> 00:52:41.039 We make gardening a family activity, we make making food a family activity, although my wife is way better and does do most of it. 00:52:41.199 --> 00:52:45.199 That's why I try to do most of the dishes to kind of make up for that. 00:52:45.519 --> 00:52:49.360 Um and uh so the those would be the big the big things. 00:52:49.519 --> 00:52:54.480 The the realm of food, the realm of kind of reading out loud together. 00:52:54.719 --> 00:52:59.119 But I will also, because by the way, you were inviting me and I and I and I didn't do it. 00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:03.760 Something else that Sophia and I do together is our website, which is Lifecraft. 00:53:03.920 --> 00:53:05.119 So just share this. 00:53:05.199 --> 00:53:08.400 This is one way we try to share what we

do in our home with others. 00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:11.679 So the address of it is life-craft.org. 00:53:11.840 --> 00:53:21.280 And Sophia has a corner there called Sophia's Corner where she shares crafts and just concrete specific ways of trying to make household more of a context. 00:53:21.440 --> 00:53:25.599 I have we do a podcast together called The Intentional Household. 00:53:25.679 --> 00:53:32.559 Uh so I am very this book is kind of the fullest uh embodied expression of that. 00:53:32.719 --> 00:53:44.159 But I've got free courses and a number of things that are all about how do we actually apply these principles today in things as simple as how we eat together, how we read aloud together, etc. 00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:46.320 Amazing. 00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:49.119 Um, thank you very much for sharing. 00:53:49.280 --> 00:53:54.559 I was hoping that you know you would let us know where our listeners can connect with you further. 00:53:54.639 --> 00:53:59.840 Um, and also would you mind sharing where they could maybe even get a uh their own copy of the Intentional? 00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:00.639 Yes. 00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:02.800 Well, um the good news is it's by Ignatius Press. 00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:07.039 So I love people buying it from Ignatius itself, ignatius.com. 00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:12.400 It is on Amazon and uh and should be in your local Catholic bookstore. 00:54:12.559 --> 00:54:14.320 If it's not, that's where you ask for it. 00:54:14.400 --> 00:54:17.199 But yeah, the good news is it is readily available. 00:54:17.840 --> 00:54:19.440 Thank you so much, Dr. 00:54:19.679 --> 00:54:23.599 John, for joining us today and for talking about this incredible book. 00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:35.679 Um, what a timely and useful and inspiring volume that is sure to bring um all readers great joy and stronger faith and hopefully, prayerfully, better relationships with one another. 00:54:35.840 --> 00:54:45.440 Um, at a resounding yes, we're so we're so grateful for your time, and we are all about how intentional living can inspire faithful ascent to the Lord. 00:54:45.519 --> 00:54:49.119 Um, and we're sure this book is going to deeply resonate with our listeners. 00:54:49.440 --> 00:54:50.239 Thanks, Belle. 00:54:50.480 --> 00:54:56.239 As we close the episode today, we especially encourage you to spend time with your friend who knows you the best, Jesus. 00:54:56.480 --> 00:55:00.880 Go to adoration, daily mass, talk or sit with him, even if it's just 10 minutes. 00:55:01.119 --> 00:55:11.440 Go for a walk outside, meditate on sacred art, learn and reflect upon the lives of the saints, or simply venture to sit with Jesus among God's gifts and nature and pray. 00:55:11.920 --> 00:55:17.679 Or garden, I challenge you to go out into the world and add more prayer to your day today. 00:55:17.920 --> 00:55:19.920 You will be amazed at how your heart will sing. 00:55:20.159 --> 00:55:25.440 No, our team will conclude this episode silently, praying for all the intentions you hold in your hearts. 00:55:25.599 --> 00:55:27.760 I invite you to do so as well. 00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:34.480 So, from all of us from at a resounding yes in Catholic Creative Agency, Paloma and Fake, thank you for listening in. 00:55:34.639 --> 00:55:37.360 We pray each of you has a week ahead full of miracles. 00:55:37.599 --> 00:55:44.159 If this episode has resonated with you, we'd be so grateful if you would take a moment to rate and review the podcast on your favorite listening platform. 00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:50.320 Your feedback not only encourages us, but also helps others discover these conversations and encounter Christ through them. 00:55:50.559 --> 00:56:01.199 If you'd like even more faithful content, podcast updates, book and film reviews, faithful reflections, and more, you can subscribe to our Paloma Post newsletters by visiting Palomaandfake.com. 00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:06.559 We're so grateful for you and your continued support, as we could not do this without each and every one of you in your prayers. 00:56:06.719 --> 00:56:07.599 God bless.