GGV Capital’s Hans Tung and Zara Zhang interview Kai-Fu Lee, the founder and CEO of Sinovation Ventures (an early-stage VC fund in China) and a renowned computer scientist known for his work in artificial intelligence. He was the founding president of Google China and played a key role in establishing Microsoft Research Asia as well.

In this episode, Kai-Fu recounts the journey that took him from Taiwan to Tennessee and then to prominence in the tech sector. At first a computer science student working on speech recognition, he became one of the world’s experts on artificial intelligence. He has helped U.S. giants like Google and Microsoft expand into China and assisted Chinese entrepreneurs as an investor, mentor, and thought leader.

Join our listeners' community via WeChat/Slack at 996.ggvc.com/community. GGV Capital also produces a biweekly email newsletter in English, also called "996," which has a roundup of the week's most important happenings in tech in China. Subscribe at 996.ggvc.com. The 996 Podcast is brought to you by GGV Capital, a multi-stage venture capital firm based in Silicon Valley, Shanghai, and Beijing. We have been partnering with leading technology entrepreneurs for the past 18 years from seed to pre-IPO. With $3.8 billion in capital under management across eight funds, GGV invests in globally minded entrepreneurs in consumer internet, e-commerce, frontier tech, and enterprise. GGV has invested in over 280 companies, with 30 companies valued at over $1 billion. Portfolio companies include Airbnb, Alibaba, Bytedance (Toutiao), Ctrip, Didi Chuxing, DOMO, Hashicorp, Hellobike, Houzz, Keep, Musical.ly, Slack, Square, Wish, Xiaohongshu, YY, and others. Find out more at ggvc.com.

United States


00:00:06Manuel conservation hi there welcome to the nine at six o'clock us brought to you by TD capital and co produced by the set a couple cast on the show we interview movers and shakers of China's tech industry as well as tech leaders will have a US China cross
00:00:33border perspective my name's funds from a managing partner at G. B. capital it had been working I start ups in investing in that in both the US and China for the past twenty years my name is are John and the investment analysts HGTV capital and a former journalist
00:00:50why is this show called ninety six ninety six is the work schedule that many Chinese founders have organically adopted that is nine AM to nine PM six days a week through us nine nine six captures the intensity drive and speed of Chinese internet companies many of which are
00:01:07moving faster than even their American counterparts on the show today we have doctor Kaifu Lee who is the founding president of Google China and a renowned computer scientist known for his work in artificial intelligence Kaifu is the founder and CEO of Sino recent ventures %HESITATION is the easy
00:01:28fun in China as he started in two thousand nine is born Taiwan and emigrated to the USA on each has worked as an executive at apple SGI Microsoft and Google he played a critical part in a stop smoking some research China which will become a sub users for
00:01:44all of Asia and that was the %HESITATION game changing vent in the feel of time for China there he became the founding president who will China and then a few years later in two thousand nine he level go to started his own VC fund has locked in a
00:01:58bachelor's degree from Columbia University where he gave a commencement speech this summer and a PhD in computer science from Carnegie Mellon besides being a problem in the us or an advocate for artificial intelligence Clive was also well know in China as sky flush your teacher Kaifu a career
00:02:14coach and useless or with over fifty million followers so way below as well as his own we chat official account and he has published five books and frequently give speeches at universities across China welcome to the show okay thank you thank you for inviting me the first questions
00:02:28I would start with the early stage part of your life if you tell us when did you leave time on what prompted and what kind of experiences have we first went to be with us was there any adjustment period for you back then okay yeah so it was
00:02:43I think in the early seventies when my brother who was a PhD in the U. S. went to visit my parents and our family after many years of being absence and he saw that's why the large gap that U. S. had in its education system compared to all
00:02:58of Asia and he said why don't you come live with us so so I did soon seven the %HESITATION late seven the older older brother a lot older yes right more than twenty years old twenty years wow yeah yeah %HESITATION so he was %HESITATION in Oak Ridge at
00:03:13Oak Ridge national labs and for the city which I went to and lived in it was really quite an experience because I was the south in the south the only Chinese student in an entire high school which is probably something no one ever thinks of you good English
00:03:31back then I didn't speak any English when I went but %HESITATION I think with the typical southern hospitality %HESITATION I really welcome with open arms and in fact the oak richer the newspaper of the small town of will greet you recently had a three part series %HESITATION interviewing
00:03:49with me so I really treasure the days and I think that people were very warm and wonderful interesting that and the teachers were very patients and let me %HESITATION look get up to speed with the language right did you encounter any difficulty at all all well of course
00:04:03they're always %HESITATION you know some people and familiar with the %HESITATION Asian for Oregon coach error yeah so there may be a few but very interestingly are there a lot a lot more warmth and a lot of people come to us okay usually when someone picks on me
00:04:19%HESITATION and I didn't really know what they were picking how may %HESITATION there will always be some other warm students who come to my defense so I've never had any real a serious so somebody else will be doing Tennessee a six years six years yeah middle school and
00:04:33high school wow yeah but you're Chinese amazing so you %HESITATION how do you compute people such stuff in that in the grass both languages yeah so I went when I first went to the U. S. %HESITATION my mother said %HESITATION I have %HESITATION two wishes to things you
00:04:48must do before I let you go first use you have to marry a Chinese wife which I did not comment on whether that's what I did I did as you wish the second was she %HESITATION she said you need to write me a letter every week what is
00:05:05this and then she corrected every mistake on the letter on at the time phone calls were expensive there was no email so it was all based on this one letter from me to her she wrote a letter back correcting my previous letter and then that help me keep
00:05:20up my Chinese from what my mother moved there with me so there have to write it if they do or don't have anyone to speak Chinese two in Tennessee while my my family first time either brother in law and their their child got up in the U. into
00:05:35a New York I did very different city yeah yeah Columbia right yeah so it will prompt you to choose cumbia %HESITATION well Colombia is a very famous school of course and I applied to a bunch of famous schools and %HESITATION it was the I mean being Chinese background
00:05:53you'd understand you go to the highest ranked one that accepted so I just tell the truth he wasn't in New York I know New York was %HESITATION positive factor right but I think I was still very much %HESITATION Chinese mentality you go to the ranks and say okay
00:06:09Colombia's rank whatever number seven right since the other six didn't accept me I will go to that one did you know you were going to study computer science when you went there I did not I enjoy computer science a lot in high school actually got exposed to in
00:06:22high school but I will be friends I did yes IBM duster equivalent to three sixty yeah yeah so %HESITATION when I went to Columbia I was going to study math because saw in Tennessee I was %HESITATION state winner in mathematics I thought that was really good but it
00:06:38turned out you know Tennessee was a small state so that would I did not I did not do that while I was placed in the most advanced math class %HESITATION for seven people and I was probably number seven in the class and the teacher gave me an a
00:06:55minus never the less he said you get an a minus just whatever just for getting into the class and the so I I realize I was no math genius I was in a pretty good at it but then I also discovered that computer science which was a lot
00:07:08of fun and I thought that was a lot better to remember our first time you came across the computer first time it was that %HESITATION actually university of Chicago was during %HESITATION high school sophomore year I went to there to study number theory %HESITATION as a special master
00:07:23class and then they gave me an account %HESITATION and I I %HESITATION didn't barely knew how to program I mostly play games on that %HESITATION does a lot of fun with your brother didn't show you how to %HESITATION program computer no no he didn't have or know how
00:07:38to program what would he do what he was %HESITATION %HESITATION by it he was a biochemist okay yeah they're interesting right and then %HESITATION after %HESITATION Columbia was what came next I went to Carnegie Mellon straight to school straight to school to the PhD program right right yeah
00:07:54I was fortunate to have had a %HESITATION professor John Kander who was a CMU grant and %HESITATION teaching ads %HESITATION at Columbia and %HESITATION he like me a lot and recommend it so %HESITATION %HESITATION coming to CMU and that was the the best school I was very excited
00:08:10so when was the first time you're sure heard the term artificial intelligence it was in my sophomore year at %HESITATION Columbia well was that early on it was in the course of call natural language processing %HESITATION was taught by a professor who was a student of Roger Schank
00:08:29my was one of the early %HESITATION cognitive science based natural and good job experts are so so we've built systems using this %HESITATION tool unders understand %HESITATION actualizar dialog system is light is what you would call we would call a chat bot today so we actually build the
00:08:47chat bot for my nineteen eighty eighty one class project when I was %HESITATION I meant for my undergrad %HESITATION we also hear come out of his intelligence that was in the late eighties but people tend to think that's a it's been around a long time yeah awhile for
00:09:04breakthrough yeah a lot of theory who knows if he will come to reality in your mind what teens wanted a few critical factors I changed me to make a I so popular and so prevalent today right %HESITATION I I think the biggest factor is really the maturation of
00:09:23algorithms even though %HESITATION there were multiple ups and downs %HESITATION there are times when you're on that works were hot so I I used in the mark of models for my PhD thesis which were the same classes now and that's but %HESITATION %HESITATION and then they kept improving
00:09:38and even though they were period of a down time %HESITATION deep learning reinforcement learning those algorithmic improvements and the people will continually work at that that's the most important factor of course the other almost as important factor is the availability of huge amount of data right yeah because
00:09:55%HESITATION with the internet companies and software companies couldn't so much data exactly a lot of people think it's all algorithms might actually know you train them you need to have a train them with large amounts of data and you need to tune your algorithm based on the amount
00:10:09of data you have so you get more day that you improve job was a better you get more day they improve the better and then that it or this cycle is what %HESITATION drove today and as you said %HESITATION who has the most data was the internet companies
00:10:22so the US is so Google Facebook Amazon China is by do Ali Baba so when you finish your PhD were you planning a career in academia I was a stay that Harding about one %HESITATION they made me on this a system professor yes yes I was a %HESITATION
00:10:40a research scientist and an assistant professor %HESITATION skip the post doc really made an exception because my PhD at the time was considered an important breakthrough in speech recognition of course in hindsight is really wasn't anything close to good enough %HESITATION but but I stayed and talked for
00:10:58two years what led you from there to work in the industry call couples will be back in the media to do that of the lack of email really wasn't quite from me so I felt all the work you need to do to get grandes get students was a
00:11:14lot of fun busy work without the corresponding aha moment when you can't get to do exciting research that do something exciting actually more importantly university wasn't a great place to make things happen you write papers it's still kind of ivory tower he still academic wanted to change the
00:11:32world and of course it was apple that called and it was on a similar style of recruiting that said look do you want to spend your life writing useless papers are the join us into the world essentially the same things that jobs the jobs at the John Sculley
00:11:49about selling sugar water before for me was %HESITATION useless papers how big was apple when you joined gosh I think was about three three thousand I think it's been a long time I think is one three thousand people and what do you say was your proudest achievement when
00:12:05your apple for my proudest achievement was %HESITATION getting on the Wall Street journal and Good Morning America when we demonstrate our speech recognition which still again did not work but you know what it was the most %HESITATION close to working system because we had a great team of
00:12:24engineers and then made my PhD algorithm is a real time it was really really fast and faster than anybody else but a weird wasn't good enough but %HESITATION but never the less %HESITATION Wall Street journal cover did the stock went up a few points and then I will
00:12:41it was in nineteen ninety three ninety two ninety three ninety three yeah yeah that's when the first member you hearing about you from reading the newspaper suffering yeah I'm sorry they didn't work as well if you are looking for to buy a mac talk soon product did hit
00:12:58the market %HESITATION but it was not a failure but it was not not the success home when you're an apple and what to do from apple joys GI I was apple apple for six years %HESITATION and then towards the last two or three years he was just continue
00:13:12or rounds of layoffs I think from %HESITATION career development %HESITATION you know I learned a lot in adversity and how that so people %HESITATION managing teams in the good times and bad also got a bunch of promotions because %HESITATION my bosses kept getting either fired or less so
00:13:32I I went from being a manager to V. P. N. just %HESITATION I think about two and a half years %HESITATION so it's it gave me a chance for accelerated growth one could also argue it was not too fast I had to go back and re learned in
00:13:48in other companies but ultimately the iterative rounds of layoffs was just too much and %HESITATION SGI reached out and I thought wow that's a that was what that was an ex razor exciting company and little did I know I was on in the whole %HESITATION jumping out of
00:14:06the %HESITATION the the boiling pot into the fire well we had a CI and William powers team in there are just just two years %HESITATION we we actually build the first US at the if web servers so while I went to a totally different business it was %HESITATION
00:14:23with the profit and loss %HESITATION we built a three D. technology for the web and then we built on %HESITATION web servers the web servers were a big success yes home made a few hundred dollars and then the three D. for the web was too early it was
00:14:37called the V. R. M. Mao where %HESITATION virtual reality in nineteen ninety six right too early to really yes and from there you went to %HESITATION Microsoft yes at the time I was actually ready to give up I sell to look every company I went to it ended
00:14:54up getting killed by Wintel because Wintel was that windows and Intel for them yeah younger listeners right yeah the relatives crossing already discussed however this apple was facing the market share issue %HESITATION and then apple couldn't deal with it Intel Wintel products were almost as good much cheaper
00:15:12at SGI the same thing first mass market solution that is keeping eating up everybody with the high margin summarized each yeah at first SGI workstation with with the only things you can use for movie animation but later %HESITATION Wintel became yeah so so that's out cause me to
00:15:31say okay I'm just going to have to work for either Microsoft or Intel has that's the Wintel duopoly so I interview the Microsoft an interview that Intel got two job offers and that shows %HESITATION chose to go they want me to choose a Microsoft over into %HESITATION well
00:15:47I'm very poor decision %HESITATION yes it was in hindsight change occur both companies offering me to had their research lab in China and I think it was really my roots in software that I really didn't know much about semiconductors I felt I want to work in a company
00:16:04where my expertise is at the core of the company as opposed to something peripheral we sell Microsoft with a software company I felt I was trapped in the hardware companies at apple and SGI where software was evaluated purely as can to help you sell hardware and that Microsoft
00:16:22was maybe a first chance I could do software for real how come both those companies with thing by sending a three RD center in China all were some of the factors that were going on that I tell the management team to think about that I am guessing that
00:16:36one of them decided to do a first and the other heard %HESITATION I don't have any facts I suspect Microsoft chose first and then I think Intel said Hey Microsoft doing we should do it too Microsoft handy RD center in India at that time no no nothing also
00:16:53no less or it was actually research in core pure fundamental research on both companies are doing that but %HESITATION in there certainly were no strong indication China would be an academic power at the time yeah that's what's so surprising yacht %HESITATION Microsoft only had Redmond and Cambridge that's
00:17:09Cambridge a U. K. that's right and China Beijing would be the third did you expect that you will be working in China when you joined the company yes yes you have your for the opposite yes it was specifically for that position yeah and I felt you know China
00:17:25I I met a lot of great Chinese %HESITATION employees fellow students at Carnegie Mellon an apple I saw that the people in China were incredibly hard working very smart very motivated %HESITATION maybe not as good education as US but I felt Microsoft could do something if the brand
00:17:44that was strong and we could hire the smartest people being %HESITATION companies %HESITATION western and if you have any hesitation we could be anybody if I'm having any as a decent for you to walk in Beijing are no it was actually one of %HESITATION my father's %HESITATION wishes
00:17:58on his deathbed that so I would spend time in China because so my parents emigrated from mainland China to Taiwan emigrated to move from right moved during the %HESITATION the which I guess are that the civil civil war right where the check I check exactly so my father
00:18:15had always wanted to what we can do is return the whole truth send help to move back himself which would wouldn't be materialized in his lifetime but he thought I should try it how was your adjustment process when you first started working in the mainland because you haven't
00:18:31really lived in mail and before that %HESITATION yeah but it was %HESITATION very %HESITATION open environment I think %HESITATION all the university's academic academics were very very curious they were wondering the same questions you or why would you pick China we are a powerful academically %HESITATION what do
00:18:48you hope to do what's right goal is this the P. R. moves back and then we showed no we really want to bring the smartest students so we brought back from the US some of top researchers again making job recruiting a lot of people which ends up being
00:19:03very famous in the home right later yeah yeah we're very fortunate there was just a wave of %HESITATION Chinese the frequencies for %HESITATION the yeah yeah mainland China right I I would say probably Hong Kong university of science and technology Florida first %HESITATION greater China wave right but
00:19:19largely now mainland %HESITATION but %HESITATION definitely MSR a first attracting these %HESITATION typically PH dis in their early mid thirties who are rising stars in their areas them almost all of them were born in China and when this US for grad school yeah about other senior people or
00:19:38maybe %HESITATION yeah %HESITATION eighty percent point in mainland China that's right the junior people were a hundred percent from Tsinghua Beijing university and sort and how did you first meet Google has a current or recent TV show me a child %HESITATION they said that you met Eric Schmidt
00:19:53on the golf course yes I did %HESITATION well I I will actually went back to Microsoft headquarters and then when I heard that Google was starting %HESITATION its own Google China presence on I thought I had the right combination because school wanted to our indie they wanted someone
00:20:10just to China someone who yet could communicate with Silicon Valley culture so actually volunteered myself and send email to Eric Schmidt and then %HESITATION and then we were arranged to meet on the golf course mostly because there were too many makers of people interviewing and they fell outside
00:20:28that I would prefer not to be seen by a lot of my stress phone coming in and out so you were great recruiter balls and Arkansas and a Google what would what tips do you have for people who are trying to attract talents to join their companies %HESITATION
00:20:45well I think you have to find people with the right cultural fits and you have to have a very high bar and %HESITATION you have to show the peoples %HESITATION road map in your company and I I think you want to find %HESITATION people the people with the
00:21:00right culture and the background %HESITATION what generally find it to be mutual fits because people want to work with people who are similar minded equally smarts and that they can learn from and in the culture that sun nurturing and also a consistent with the values that they believe
00:21:18in so I think part of it is you got to pick out who to target and then %HESITATION and the happening incredibly important originally because nucleus of people who are magnets themselves and then the track more people like that order top three points you used to yourselves pitch
00:21:36to recruit %HESITATION people these young kids teasing early thirties %HESITATION in the mid nineteen nineties to move back in China from US to Google you me to someone he our our daughter Microsoft's the top reasons were %HESITATION this is the only place that can do fundamental research with
00:21:56the freedom %HESITATION and you will be helped with a team of super smart young people were incredibly hard working you remember how it was for you %HESITATION and then Microsoft as a friend %HESITATION for Google it was %HESITATION this was a chance to really build up a business
00:22:13that's could be phenomenal and that combined business engineering everything we have the empowerment of the headquarters a second is the Google brand itself this is at the time Google was clear and by far the most attractive companies to the %HESITATION to your after their win public exactly I
00:22:31want to work for and then the third would be all the wonderful %HESITATION actually not so important but incredibly important for for recruiting the wonderful %HESITATION the benefits right now we have this executive chef had lobster for lunch at that we have all kinds of benefits %HESITATION you
00:22:50know in the U. S. there was %HESITATION taking a dog to work %HESITATION doing your laundry for you and all the all the good stuff so all those benefits actually did work in attracting people even though I don't think they were core as far as the long term
00:23:03retention how would you define the culture of Google China back then in the early days %HESITATION we wanted to really have an independent mind set because I felt the only way cool China could succeed was to %HESITATION %HESITATION believe this is your own company and go after it
00:23:22and in order to do that we wanted to have to Google values but have the freedom to really %HESITATION roll out new products features and %HESITATION iterate and show numbers in terms of our market grows and and also advertising revenue growth so he was up probably almost like
00:23:43a start up within the company and when do you think you had the first inkling that Google my need to leave China I I didn't I didn't %HESITATION I I think the Google business %HESITATION went up for the first three years that I was there in the market
00:24:00share went up significantly revenues were almost a billion dollars the search share went up sure sure was about %HESITATION tripled in during my tenure %HESITATION but the last year I think there were some difficulties %HESITATION I think partly just due to Google feeling that okay it's time to
00:24:20%HESITATION build one one Google and not have this you know a difference everything being different in China because all the products features a lot of cold was forked and people were questioning Hey look on Google now has expanded successfully throughout the world and maybe China should just be
00:24:37that like any other country so I didn't have as much freedom as as before and also I think there it was the one year when Google's financial numbers were not the greatest so they were less numbers last budgets for us to attract %HESITATION traffic and usage of marketing
00:24:54so those those were the idea of some of the challenges we face but also I think I will more I I left Google because not because the challenges but because I saw the opportunity I saw that mobile was going to be a huge deal are partly being in
00:25:10Google I saw the power of android and then I saw that the entrepreneurial energy the entrepreneurs and the B. C.'s were growing in China but there was a gap in the %HESITATION early seed stage funding so I thought filling that gap which fits my technical background and also
00:25:28be a lot of fun to help young people start there are companies so that was really the major reason that the money FOR started was a in Cuba basin model that's right right now as you've often come out of the the VC component become become bigger as you
00:25:41evolve the model over last %HESITATION seven seventy years what were some of the biggest %HESITATION lessons and take a waste now you pack a evolving this model writes us so our model today is %HESITATION is basically a VC model it's sweet investing Sirius a and B. are we
00:26:00still do angel deals when we can we rarely we don't incubates by nine point nine more but we would be investing in early stage dot P. A. deals when when one comes along %HESITATION I think we pride ourselves on being very %HESITATION technically %HESITATION %HESITATION knowledgeable %HESITATION P.
00:26:17picking the right trends and we %HESITATION we we still have a lot of the early spirit that we love our entrepreneurs we have a very strong service team to help in terms of marketing PR %HESITATION and %HESITATION %HESITATION finance legal and so on so we have a big
00:26:33team that's continues to help the entrepreneurs even those series a and B. %HESITATION but is the servicemen Talladega %HESITATION pro entrepreneur mentality so just yeah and then we have now in a I institutes which is now out implementing a high but also helping our VC was that the
00:26:49%HESITATION referral in judgment and so on so we've evolved to a model that's maybe a little bit like %HESITATION you know gray lock and benchmarking the technical typed little bit like entries in horror was in a strong services operations and maybe a little bit like a Google ventures
00:27:04and having our own engineers so we're trying to make %HESITATION make this model works to the fund is doing well but in retrospect you asking me what things out I learned that were maybe a %HESITATION not quite as I originally expected I think I think it's it's it's
00:27:18probably obvious to you how's that many people in DC now and and myself too but at the time %HESITATION I thoughts a nurturing incubation environment could help a lot of people fill up there areas in which they're not strong and increase your chance of success however I think
00:27:35in retrospect I think the strongest finally successful entrepreneurs are so strong we are so confident I think they feel an entity like an incubator or someone who saw the watches over them like a teacher or even the boss is something that's highly and is our of all the
00:27:53great entrepreneurs want to be independent they want to be %HESITATION funded they want to give the give and imports but they will need to be their own boss and they're big and strong and powerful and confident they'll make mistakes met their growth comes from learning from the mistakes
00:28:10not from a teacher who guys them along the way but so that's how we made our role shift into one that I think it's more complimentary to people who are off this %HESITATION type of our strong entrepreneur I just %HESITATION backing difference printers do you also see them
00:28:23being older than the ones use help into bait earlier yeah yes the H. changes a lot because in the early stages or doing mobile he was very young yeah because %HESITATION yeah mid twenties because at that time PC people were in the mid thirties that's right and they
00:28:40can change their mind set so he's run general that's right and so we back to young people lights %HESITATION very %HESITATION lean start up very low small amounts of money and then they very small amount of money was enough because it was %HESITATION three engineers but now as
00:28:55we going to have your styles where you have to you know think about new retail new health and think about new education but you actually have to %HESITATION big customer acquisition costs you may have even offline activities and also the Chinese competition evolve differently from the US having
00:29:12US continues to feel like star that is good like raisins models good looking for the next mugs October exactly but in China the competition is so fierce that if you have a life model someone might copy you or to to to won't ride the next wave so you
00:29:28have to really build very big deep malts and the most often have to do with ugly offline and %HESITATION expensive %HESITATION capital except in the church are somewhat less of that experiencing some hearing yours rice almost exactly something so the amount of money we put it has to
00:29:44be a lot more even though it's the reason be and the people tend to be older more experienced %HESITATION without running a large organization so I wonder what advice do you have for US companies who won in enter China especially given your experience with Google and Tim cook
00:29:59said recently that %HESITATION you can change things from the sidelines have to participate when he was still %HESITATION defending apples move tool comply with Beijing's regulations yeah %HESITATION I'm more to the question look the once I've done well tend to be more traditional economy companies what is a
00:30:14Starbucks yeah GM or even out and an apple the idea and the internet guys have had a much tougher time yeah I I think %HESITATION all foreign companies will have a tougher time than before on the one hand China's a lucrative market everyone should try to enter and
00:30:32participate %HESITATION but %HESITATION the good days when Procter and gamble could come and just take it all is gone Starbucks probably was one of the last entrance yes I will have the kind of %HESITATION mindshare they have I think the next one will have to be tougher because
00:30:47the Chinese brand builders are getting better so even non traditional I think it's an American companies shouldn't take it program even traditional American companies evil right shouldn't take a granted internet companies %HESITATION have it may be a little even harder apple is %HESITATION one example success but you
00:31:04could argue they're not bad internet company %HESITATION so an American technology company I would have to advice now one is if possible get a Chinese partner and %HESITATION one of the big companies %HESITATION wanna be partner %HESITATION while the sum of also try to get the seas to
00:31:20find find a local entrepreneur that's another model %HESITATION there aren't many different models or joint venture maybe we still if you are if you are in not %HESITATION spur certain areas maybe a state owned company or a bank it it all depends if your internet company maybe be
00:31:36a T. was good parts %HESITATION so so I think you have to evaluate but having someone when those local get that score and that that's important %HESITATION the other advice I have is if you have a very strong technology differentiation %HESITATION consider selling the technology consider license as
00:31:53a technology because that's another way that's you %HESITATION China is now very much %HESITATION up much better in respecting I. P. I think I'll technology licensing could be a very good and easy business you don't have to deal with the complexities of all the local market and running
00:32:09and so on so what what you're saying is the most successful US tech company in China European apple would certainly be you be one of them %HESITATION they're doing okay so far although I think they're facing some challenges %HESITATION as well their share %HESITATION is on not not
00:32:29not to be growing but I think %HESITATION %HESITATION they care a lot about the market the trying hard but I think actually some traditional companies are still have to have built a strong enough fruits they're still doing okay IBM being one example %HESITATION they have a very strong
00:32:45brand very strong local partnerships ecosystem those are probably two styles to can consider but they're also hardware companies like Intel nvidia I think they're also doing okay because they're kind of that that that the infrastructure level my so it's it's a little bit easier to it's a little
00:33:02bit like licensing I was mentioning so those are some examples what do you think of a using more coming to look at what the %HESITATION Yahoo I done with them out of Allah or over took him awhile to realize too the Audi yes see more of them should
00:33:17be doing more of but the it's gonna investment deals yes I think so I think so I think %HESITATION other Wilbur deal was %HESITATION very sure to be done the way that time at that that they did and %HESITATION I think Ali Baba Yahoo maybe a little bit
00:33:31of luck because I think at the time it was hard to envision the way things will play out but never the less I think Jerry saw Jack as in the amazing amazing guy so with a huge difference that's right so I think %HESITATION it's it's maybe you well
00:33:48informed from the people angle correct but the business side different we did not see it play out this way but it was great for yeah right who recently wrote a piece for economists about a phenomenal as %HESITATION ammo are only merged with off line do you think %HESITATION
00:34:03so that boundary between only off lies being blurred and do you think China is the head of the U. S. in a limo and which area of application are you most excited about rice online merges with off line is when you can capture everything in the physical world
00:34:17and digitize it and upload it and combined with online so it when you're shopping actually you %HESITATION the fact you picked up some products are bought some product that's captured and combined with your online patterns that could be done with just the online payment it could also be
00:34:33that with a video camera or other other sensors and mechanisms of the entire %HESITATION imho is %HESITATION is is is huge in China because we see it hitting a lot of areas including retail including %HESITATION public transportation including education and and also if you look at the amount
00:34:54of digital activity that's happening in the off line China is %HESITATION away passing the U. S. in our online wise you know China's %HESITATION mobile users maybe three or four times that that you last night but in terms of online payment is so much bigger online and I'm
00:35:12sorry in terms of also my mobile payments especially offline mobile payment is off the charts is over over fifty acts yet right now and then that's enabling so in China I think the biggest enabler much as as much as we love a I in %HESITATION I'm all we
00:35:28think a huge enabler that's already happened he is the more Bob %HESITATION in China over six hundred million people can do a peer to peer micropayments and almost frictionless almost without commission %HESITATION exchanges to each other and that will and power many times of applications so our investments
00:35:48%HESITATION imho bike you know that some of the live streaming %HESITATION and %HESITATION food delivery that's all taken off because mobile payment will be the enabler that will make everything happen a lot faster so I think the offline payments %HESITATION will unlock a lot of the phone gross
00:36:07and then xcelerated ways even faster than before so you know if you ask me to predict future of A. I. as possible China are U. S. will be a had %HESITATION but if you ask about the future of %HESITATION am all about the mobile out payment driven online
00:36:21offline merging creating value there's no doubt a chain that will be the leader in this area one last questions that %HESITATION when you get a Microsoft %HESITATION made a huge difference ones you had open letters %HESITATION open compressing him to a lot of the Chinese %HESITATION tech students
00:36:39also %HESITATION due to a lot of people in separate coming the future presidents of by do and CEOs of tens and and and and and so forth %HESITATION what made you capable of all these top people in the first place and what do you think someone like Microsoft
00:36:56or any other western coming could have done to retain those tapped of well I think %HESITATION there's a place and time for everything are there was a time when Microsoft brand was the most amazing was a time when Google's was the most amazing and there are times will
00:37:13be eighty were great brands and now I think it's the age of entrepreneurs so I think it's hard to fight against the trend I think actually the entrepreneurial trend is the most powerful including the government's support for the mass entrepreneur and innovation campaign as well as I think
00:37:31that the parents and the the the young people themselves are thinking differently so I I think it's hard to %HESITATION to somebody's mind and force them to still think some companies hot when it's not %HESITATION I think right now what the the if you want to follow the
00:37:46trend people want to be entrepreneurs they want to learn how to be entrepreneurs right and I think we're in the fortunate position as a BC ought to be able to %HESITATION connect to those people and find a way to fulfill the dream my last question is that %HESITATION
00:38:00that what we what you and I have seen in China within a space in the DC space over last fifteen years there's nothing but you know short of transformational one parses lighten do you think that's a ten out specific phenomenon or do you think that some of the
00:38:13models art were to come to themselves exporting some models to other developing markets around the world if not even U. S. your well I I think that %HESITATION I think the China model is very hard to replicate I actually don't think it will can be replicated at anything
00:38:29close to China scale hardly is because I think China have all the things happening at the same time very hardworking industrial pop industrious population plenty of capital coming in %HESITATION the willingness to take risks and %HESITATION all of those things %HESITATION and willingness to learn from the US
00:38:48at the right time and the right revolutions came along with the internet small while now a I sos almost %HESITATION %HESITATION perfect storm %HESITATION designed perfect script for China to go from a poor country to manufacturing now into tack %HESITATION that's cannot necessarily be replicated from other countries
00:39:07because on the initial step of %HESITATION using cheap labor %HESITATION to gain as a a a a strong ground hold on in the world is may not be doable because a I is taking a lot of us jobs so it's not clear having more unskilled labors is a
00:39:24benefit to a large population countries anymore that's the number one reason the other thing is those are perfect storm elements are just hard to relying for another country so I think was most likely to happen is China and US will each become a very strong powerful corner of
00:39:41the world with its software technologies know how and %HESITATION going into other countries selves with other countries right the Chinese companies and American companies right so that will happen in many different ways you know Google is used to Facebook are used to expanding their own presence within our
00:39:58subsidiaries in Chinese companies maybe be able you know or or even I'll tell me that's right right in China some of those companies are expanding themselves like show me some companies are doing investments like I'll be AT some companies are doing start ups but still not leaving China
00:40:16like the you know the hotel copy cats to different countries and the live streaming copy cats and %HESITATION shared bicycle copy cats those aren't necessarily by owned by a show me or on the eighty so also reminds interpreters attending entre willingness and was having a yeah so I
00:40:32think in the end %HESITATION China and US will really play very big roles the other countries were obviously the ones with bigger markets and more at bass infrastructure will still enjoys good growth but it's hard to really a replication because the interpreter that you admire the most and
00:40:48why are the entrepreneur %HESITATION I think would have to be Steve Jobs he has the boldness to dream the impossible and also learning to become a better leader now he's obviously had a lot of issues and faults and had to leave and come back but I think %HESITATION
00:41:06he is %HESITATION in the in the in the couple one great was the best and worst decision you thing ever made of this decision was probably %HESITATION I think I have to say merry my wife %HESITATION let's go back Fastenal Lee my moving to China yeah %HESITATION yeah
00:41:26I I I think the worst decision is probably just generally be leaving %HESITATION speech recognition could work in the nineties so it's currently to continuously trying that without learning from the previous lesson but eventually I learned what's a habit that you're glad you have %HESITATION reading thank you
00:41:49so much for your time and %HESITATION it's a pleasure to have you thank you thank you thanks enjoyed it okay I buy from this two seven nine eight %HESITATION %HESITATION %HESITATION thank the next thanks for listening to this episode nine nine six by the way we also produce
00:42:17a weekly email newsletter English also call nine and six which has a roundup of the week's most important happenings intact in China subscriber some told us his formative and fun to read the news that also features original content and analysis from Zara me subscribe at nine A. six
00:42:37dot D. G. B. C. dot com GT capital is a multi stage venture capital firm based in Silicon Valley Shanghai and Beijing we have been partnering with leading technology entrepreneurs for the last seventeen years from seed to pre IPO was three point eight billion dollars in capital under
00:42:54management across eight funds GGV invest in globally minded entrepreneurs in consumer internet ecommerce frontier tack in enterprise TGV has invested over two hundred companies including Airbnb Ali Baba C. trip DD hello bark house key lock square hotel wish cellphone through why why and others with twenty nine IP
00:43:20o's and seventy in accordance to date find out more at G. B. C. dot com if you have any feedback on this podcast for one like to recommend a gas please email us at nine nine six at G. B. C. dot com this podcast is co produced by
00:43:37our friend cam this partner because of what the host of the wonderful setting up accounts it covered China's economic political and cultural issues

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