Full Transcript for 2017 Dalton Scale

first show, appreciate it taking over in your Dan Campbell role for Sydney. And now Dan Campbell won his first game if you remember, Yeah, it was all bro hugs and um, you know, puffing out their chest and being all proud of themselves. And that Dolphins team then went in the tank. If you recall, Dan didn't come back. So you're looking to avoid that fate, Oh certainly, yeah, yeah, we want to keep those bro hugs going. Already drawing the parallel to Dan Campbell. If that's what Dan Campbell did with the Dolphins, between that coach and and Sully, that seems very ominous that it's all down him for Sully, I mean Sally Wood. Sally would do so well to be looking like Dan Campbell. I'm just by the way, wearing wearing a podcast park of Today, one that we all own, but ours are adorned with the around the NFL logo. His move the sticks. I was only given one. I was only given one quarters up. It's a bit of an allegiance issue that we're working through. But I'm putting Sully's professionalism above all, so I'm not I'm not going to be ignored. Let's do some news. Fine me, waiter man, fine me, water everything to me. It's Tack McKinley, of course, the star of the first round of the NFL draft when he brought a picture frame poster of his deceased grandmother after being drafted overall by the Falcons. Made some more news today which I enjoyed. Uh. He posted on Instagram a video dancing and celebrating the fact that he just went from being dirt porter a millionaire. I like this guy. Like this Tach mckill. I hope he can play as much as he entertains, uh in his rookie campaign. We'll say, now, let's talk some news and We'll start with a big trade. Oh, it's a trade and it's the it's the most depressing kind of trade. A trade between the Jets and the Browns um as the two teams swap um. You know, I don't know what's a nice way to call these these two players to Marry O'Davis and Calvin Pryor underachiever one is an underachiever prior former first round pick to Mario Davis is kind of just a guy at most the linebackers. So you saw the rare one for one trade with Calvin Pryor going to the Browns uh and tomorrow Davis, who was a former Jet coming back to New York. Uh. The browns Uh later confirmed the trade agreement. And because Sashy Brown loves for people to know what Sashy Brown thinks about things, uh, there was a missive sent out by Mr. Brown. Calvin is a young, experienced safety that has upside. We are pleased to be able to add him to our defensive back room, and just like every player we acquire, we expect him to come in with a hard working mindset, ready to compete to Mario is a guy that we developed the utmost respect for in his time with our team, not only as a professional but also as a person. We appreciate all he did for our organization in his time in Cleveland. Sashi went to Harvard. I believe so, Sashi, it's safety who has upside, not safety that has wrote it. I don't know. Can I just say something, you know, keep talking. Calvin Pryor is terrible. I'm just gonna be honest with to use a bad player a year ago at this time, it should be pointed out you were very high on him, he was going to be very good. I just want to point that out not true. We we got into a little thing that you you said that you had some high you hired high Calvin Brack. I also got publicly roasted by Calvin Pryor on Twitter for suggesting that he wasn't quite a superstar at that stage of the season. He had a bad year and then he has a promising year, and then he was, uh, the worst safety on a team with terrible safeties last year. You could check the check the tape. Uh. And I just want to make the point that some of the talking like, uh, the Browns are making another Patriots move taking somebody's old first round have fun with Calvin Pryoris, who is saying I read that in multiple places where I mean honestly that I think this trade is exactly how we've It's two it's two teams struggling to build a roster. No one is praising the Browns for getting a safety that the Jets don't want, and no one's praising the Jets for getting a linebacker back that they didn't even try to resign. Say, it's a non issue move, it's not a big deal. Both teams had a need at the position. The Browns need safeties. They'll give him a shot. It was not guaranteed to make the roster. And also, if we're gonna spend all this time on Sashy Brown and I'll go work with I'll work for Sully next time. But Mike mccagnet, who was a Glory who was a Glory boy about a year ago, has sunk this team into the ground. He has He has a lot more to answer for than Sashy Brown, who has helped a crew massive amount of draft picks. Amazing that amazing one and fifteen season mark. Yes, he's doing amazing worker. You can say that, but honestly, you don't the Browns have done a nice job. You're turning this into like a Brown's verse Jets. I was, I was certain. I was just pointing out that the Browns are getting a bum and the Jets getting a bum back as well, the multiple ways the friend there you go, doesn't Mark? Is there any chance that the Browns Greg Williams sees Calvin Pryor is his new Mark Barron where he'll he'll be playing that hybrid linebacker safety rule. I saw. I saw that also, but I don't see that being true until Calvin Pryor proves anything on the field. I just think it's a low stakes trade. Right. They are very thin at linebacker now, but Davis didn't quite fit. They're very thin as safety. The best way I would categorize this trade is if it happened on the fifth day of free agency or the third day of the draft, it would have not made our podcast. It would have not been big enough news to make our podcast because those were busy times. Now you knows it's Brown's Jets and and now I got I'm not it's what we got here on June. Well, no, continue on. It's just like if you you put all this pre production into selling the Browns down the river. The Jets are no pretty picture either. I mean, like Mike mccagnet has a lot to answer for what I'm the guy. I'm coming for

your corner, buddy, I'm a coming for you. I am the lowest guy in the totem pole. Now I'm excited about it. Not Yes, we're scamming for Sam. Baby can't have that too. So it's not like I'm saying, Oh, Mike, can't I'm coming, baby. You can't have that too from you. You have you have to suffer through it to get it. I'm coming is not going to just get handed to you. Dan in May and June West has never been happier with his decision to not root for an NFL Who's Who's thirty one and who's thirty two? Uh? Moving on, all right, very listen. I should have seen that coming, but I didn't. And I apologize, Mark. My GM had a horrible year two. Your GM is getting a lot of accolades. That's all right, now, you know what I'm not. I have nothing else to say on the matter. Moving on, Matt Jones, WHOA what a swift fall from Matt Jones Uh, the running back who has once seen is maybe the future guy on the Redskins in the backfield. Mike Silver reported Thursday that Jones has been told by coach j Gruten that Gruten that he's now the team's number five running back. UM motivating at least part of the man's decision to stay away from O t As. Uh. Let's see who else is on that list of running backs? Rob Kelly, Uh, someone's gonna help me with this one. Samash Perene might be their Week one starter. Chris Thompson, Mac Brown uh and Keith Marshall. And speaking of Rob Kelly, known by many as fat Rob Kelly, he has done some work cutting his body fat from eighteen percent totent this offseason. A nice little offseason trope there. Uh. Kelly says he feels more explosive, explosive, faster, blah blah blah. Wes Matt Jones, Are you surprised how far he's fallen in this time? No, I'm not. I know Greg is, but I am not surprised, And I'm not surprised that Rob Kelly feels the need to lose some weight and uh he feels somaj Peeren on his on his back because the last six games of last season, Rob Kelly averaged less than three point three yards per carry. Their running game, which looks strong at mid season, faltered down the stretch. Somaja p Ryan's basically a more athletic version of Rob Kelly, like when we did when I did that projected Starter series, I put him as the starter just because I think they they send a message drafting him. I'm surprised about Matt Jones because it is worth mentioning he averaged four point six yards per carry last year in carries, he broke a lot of tackles. Uh, you know, he's averaged fourteen yards per catch in his career. He's made place. He's just fumbled a lot. He didn't fumble a lot last year, really, but he did in a couple of key spots twice in one game, and they never looked back. I think it's a personal thing, and it's also a reminder that coaches lie through their teeth. Because Jay Gruden, the first time he didn't show up to O t A s acted surprised, and the reporting since and and other whispers I've heard are that that was a total fabrication that he had met with Jay Gruden before that, and they both knew exactly what was gonna happen, and he

got the you know, idea that he basically wasn't part of the picture, and he decided must screw that. Cut me and other running back news. The Awakening is awake once more. Let's call it awakening five point oh. Christen Michael has signed with the Indianapolis Colts. Michael who spent last season with the Seahawks, he finishes the team's leading rusher, uh and then a short stint with the Packers that didn't ultimately work out. Now he lands with the Colts. West. You wrote about this, you believe that if Kristen Michael is going to get a job on the first day of June, he led it in a pretty good spot. I think this was the best possible scenario for him. A backfield that desperately needs speed and playmaking ability with Frank Gore who had basically fewer big plays than any starting running back in the NFL, their backup running back Robert Turbin is one of the slowest backups in the NFL. They do have Marlon Mack, who's a rookie, but maybe they don't want to put all their marbles in that bank. So Kristin Michael is going to get a chance, I think, to make this team and to have a pretty significant role. We've been down this road forty to fifty times at this point with Kristen Michael, and he's been in good situations before where they've given him prime opportunities to prove that he can be a week to week starter. And it refuses to click anywhere. And it must be his ability. It must be stu ability to retain the playbook and other stuff and other stuff as well. It's not just his athletic ability. Well, he miss mental errors, he misreads holes at the line of scrimmage, and he's not an asset in the passing game. That said, it's on tape in September. In early October last year, he ran better than any Seattle running back. I West. You know, I I feel that you were an excellent writer and you did a very good job on this piece on NFL dot Com. But I will take issue with your final paragraph. After watching the Seahawks, Packers, Cowboys, and Redskins failed to unleash Michael's athletic explosiveness over the past few seasons. How about Kristin Michael accountability. He failed those teams and failed they gave him a shot. He just can't seem to stick around anywhere. But part of the equation is coaching and development, so you think he has yet to find I think right staff to to bring it out of him at this point. I think he was ultimately scapegoated in Seattle last year. Did any running back with that offensive line they had early in the season and Russell Wilson not a threat to run on a high ankle spring, no running back was gonna do well. He was scapegoaded and no running back really did better than him in Seattle the rest of the something's going on though, that didn't work with the Packers, and uh, I mean, he's got a shot here. But I'm surprised personally that Chris Ballard and I think he just had so much to do on his wish list this year. I think if he had all the draft picks and the money of the world, he would have done a more to upgrade the spot next to Gore, because I think they like having Gore, but I think the less Gore for them probably the more effects. I also don't know particularly know if I trust Chuck Bagano's staff over that of the Seahawks or the Cowboys or the Packers. Moving on, you know, I have to say this about offensive lineman NFL offensive lineman. If you had to pick who you wanted to be if you were an NFL player, maybe wouldn't pick those guys because they're kind of the grunts. They're the big dudes. They I'm sure they do well with with the ladies, but maybe it's it's more fun to be a saucy quarterback or running back or wide receiver. But I'll tell you what, all right, great, by the way, what are you looking for? But I was picking something up. Continue on at least ones to show something like this happening on over there every every show. But offensive lineman. Those guys have fun. I feel like if I wanted to, uh go out for a day out or a night out, I'd probably go out with a lineman. And I bring this up because the Tennessee Titans offensive line has started a tradition I don't know how plugged. And you guys are in the Stanley Cup Finals. Not very big Predators fan right here, the Preads. The Preds are in the in the Finals against the Pittsburgh Penguins. Right now they're down to oh and things aren't looking good. But the Titans linemen have started a tradition where they all go to the game together. They were matching jerseys. Um, they hoist uh fresh fresh catfish in their bare hands and then slug giant beers and pour the beers down the gullets of the dead catfish and the wholk they put the put them on the jumbo trown and the crowd goes nuts. That's pretty fun. I mean stupid is there too? Yeah, that's the star right next to him. He's doing You'll notice he's very quarterbacks and all these basics. He's standing there smiling. Uh. And just because it was down the beer. No, I have not seen him chugging any of the videos that I've seen. Game three in Nashville on Saturday night, you know it's to go off, and I tell her Luan, who is a Pro Bowl tackle of course for Tennessee, and he's the ringleader all of all this. Uh. He gave an interview uh to the local Nashville station and talked about it a little bit. Let's here, Well, I knew I wanted you the catfish. I started about two weeks before the new catfish was the thing. I didn't even know that until the playoffs actually start, and um, we get there, I have my catfish. I mean, the boys are talking. I'm like, I'm gonna crank a beer. After I was like, where, why don't we all just drink a beer? It's all crank a beer together, Like all right, so I'm the plan. Let's hold the catfish up, wait for the crowd to enjoy it, slam the catfish down, and then all of us cheers and just cranking. And uh, I think it was just good old fashioned fun, just a not to noodling. Do you know what noodling is in Tennessee? Sally probably knows what new Yeah, you go, you're going, uh, you're you're looking for catfish and there are bodes and you're like to

kick your hands and the actually the like the muddy hut of a catfish underwater and I happen out with your hand and you could people like lose fingers and stuff. But oh yeah, it was like there was a show about this on some Yeah, so that's where this comes from. I think where where it comes from as the kind of adapting the Detroit octopus octopus and throwing its weird man. Yeah, it is is a weird thing Tennessee and Tennessee and up the Detroit tradition is what are you plugged in on the on the Preds? Yeah with the Preds, Yeah, they're they're They've outplayed the Penguins, and I think everybody would agree with me for most of this series. But other than two five minutes stretches, two minutes five minutes stretches where they just gave up a flurry of three and four, has anyone on this side of the glass watched ten minutes of the NHL Finals. I'm tracking it because Damna check is still plugged in with his Penguins. But I do like the tailor one is all about cranking. Well, this is it's good. It's good for Nashville that they're getting a taste of big time sports action because listeners will remember since since our bosses won't send us to the UK, we've said that they're gonna send us to Nashville this year around the NFL podcast Onto Nashville, We're going there. So it's a little bit of an appetizer before we show up. Well, I don't believe they've signed off on that yet either, But no, let's move on. I'm Rob Gronkowski and welcome to my soon. Oh turn this up, Sally. You know you've gotta like it. Oh yeah, you know what this song, Craig and what does it mean? Greg? Panka is back, not not quite, but we're gonna talk some Thursday Night football and Prianka celebration music is necessary because Mike tarik I was gonna be in the boot on a full time capacity. Sports Business Daily reported Wednesday at the NFL approved h NBC's request to allow how silly that ever came to this, to allow Tarrico allowed to Rico, the like borderline or arguably the best guy in the business of this, to be the play by play announcer for Thursday Night Football, taking Al Michael's place alongside Chris Collinsworth. So Collinsworth stays on the Thursday Sunday shift. Al Michaels is one and done as a Thursday Sunday guy, which I think makes sense for everyone. Tariko from the time he jumped from ESPN to NBC made the most sense, uh for Thursday Night and now al Michaels, who is in his early to mid seventies. At this point can go back to just focusing on one game a week. Uh win win for everyone, and especially for the Tariko fans like me out there, who now can guarantee to get Mike. There's maybe the games will be crap, but the guy calling him won't be. How was the Tariko fan reddit board after this news blew up? It actually crashed. You're like the greedy, greedy of Reddit where you're running the red boards. Yeah, we were not. A lot of us got sleep last night. Put it that way once the news came out. So Tarrico will call Thursday football and finally I love it. Yeah, that's

it. Yeah, you should be there for the next twenty five years. I don't know if TNF should be, but it should be. Yeah, and I think uh al Michael's we all love al too, but you know you need to have a succession plan. By the way, saw Pianca. If I'm not mistaken in Baywatch, went to see Baywatch during my vacation week. You know where? You know where that was filmed? Right? Tybee? Baywatch was filmed on Tybee. That's why I went to see it. No, I because I I had ripped through a bunch of movies and it was the only one left. But she played if I'm not mistaken. I at one point I left for like twenty minutes. It's walking around the movie theater. But like um, it's supposed to be a wretched film. It's awful but very enjoyable if you go in realizing this maybe one of the top worst movie, top five horse movies you've ever seen. In it fit that bill Mark is full of surprises, but rarely have I been Morris eyes by anything coming out of his mouth. Then I went to see Baywatch. Our house was under construction. I had to leave for like hours at a time, and I was doing it a week long staycation, you know, so honest, honest. The answer, how much did the hot babe factor come into the decision to go? Didn't hurt at all. Of course, it helped me get in there. But that, I will say that alone is not you could get that anywhere. I mean, it's a it's not a good reason to spend I think I dropped sixteen dollars to get into the theater too. Wow. By the way, never the movie, she plays some sort of villains. She's like the antagonist in the film. Yeah, she's fine. It's like you've seen the same You've seen the role seventeen eighteen thousand times before. K Rich once upon a time tease the possibility that we could get Prianka in studio, but that never happened, and Andrianka then was one and done as the voice of Thursday Night. Yeah, we are the only people keeping the memory of that great song alive. And I'm proud of that. You do love that song. Greg. Finally, Dez Bryant Uh at Cowboys O t as Uh this week. Uh I was talking about driving fast because the Indie five winner a lot of sports, a lot of different sports coming up today. Uh. Takuma Sato was at the practice. Greg, did I get that right? I know you have a Japanese wife. Wow, I believe so, And it doesn't make me an expert in all pronunciation. It sounds right. Yeah, I think I nailed it. Anyway, des Brian was asked what's the fastest he's gone in a car because he's a maniac. He said he went one hundred and eighty miles per hour and his Bentley got pulled over by the cops who didn't give him a ticket. We'd still be in jail if we got pulled over for going one eight. I'm just curious for you guys, because for me, I I've never I've never been that guy. You know, my car history is a Ford s Court into a Honda, a Chord into a Jetta. Uh so, I don't have any high octane sports cars in my past. So once I get if I get onto the highway and I get into the you know, feeling good, there's no traffic all a sudden, I'm at eighty and then if I

creep a little bit more, I could feel it, and then I went out and that's eighty five. Say nine is the highest ever gone highest you have fastest you've ever driven in a car? Be honest. The statue of limitations is up hundred and five. You got the triple digits once. I mean on. This was in Kansas, driving on I believe Routes seventy from basically east coast all the way to Denver, and there were no cars in either direction at all. And I got up there and then I looked. I didn't intentionally do you look at the s pedomen I got my god, get down, Greg. I was writing that same area. Similar story driving with a friend from Massachusetts to l A back in about two thousand two thoe it went over a hundred, but I don't remember not much. I drove a Dodd Ram pickup truck for ten years. Outside of that, I've had nothing but gelopes and those cars. Every single one of them would shake. Yeah, mind shaf it was shake when you get out the eighty five or ninety. I think I've probably top ninety a couple of times, but I've definitely never been in triple figures. Mine was like a nine center. I was a little surprised that could could handle that. So you seem like a guy that maybe I think I might have. All you guys beat does Bryan beat. I don't know if we could count it tough I've done, it doesn't really count, all right, It was awesome to drive on Talladega. It was it was sweet. Ex Uh listen, everybody, let's save for the White Bad Boys podcast. Speaking of which, good job by Mikael Holme on Twitter, who actually took the time to collect all of the offseason podcasts that we've teased but never recorded. Uh. Someones that stand out, of course, the Theology podcast, which is coming, it's coming. Uh, let's see someones that we liked. The Chris Hustling dating podcast. Uh, the West Needs Money podcast. I remember that error of the show where West was turning each episode into an airing of his financial grievances. I enjoyed that time. Yeah, Dan's Gullibility podcast is a good one. The Fractured Skull podcast. He is the Girl Worth At podcast, That's the f eight function podcast. I like the George Seaford podcast. Yeah, yeah, we can do three hours on Seaford. What about the Mark freeball and podcast? Not the case anymore. I believe we've gone over the greatest moments of the Godzi era podcast. So many, so many great options. That's what's happening in the news. Elevate your underwear game to the next level with what is Meandy's just seriously soft, feel good Andy's delivered right to your door. Meandies are designed in l A and made from sustainably source and wildal a fabric three times softer than cotton Meandi softer than soft look. Gandy's come in an ever changing selection of classic bold colors, bolt shades, and adventurous patter, so you can tailor your undis to your own personal style. And guess what what You can save time and money each month with a monthly subscription. If you're not ready for a subscription, that's okay, you can still save. That's because means are for off your first pair. Just use our special U R L meandis dot com slash nfl get off your first pair. So go ahead, revamp your underwear drawer. You know why, Mark, why do you deserve it? Once again? That's me dys dot com, slash NFL dot com slash NFL seen Greg you, Um, we'll pull back the curtain. You had a meeting about the individualized offer code. Had that go? Yeah? I took the bullet for the team there. Well, like many things in corporate culture, it is, you know, being considered. We'll see the wheels of corporate justice are cranking trying to get us that code. It's in process. This justice is slow, but it will be powerful. Uh. Nowadays time I did tell them, you know, if they give us that code, they're gonna be selling some underpants. Oh yeah, and until then, man and underpants, the underpants sales are gonna go rope. If you'll let us, it's in your hands anyway, now is the time. Yes, it's an annual tradition here at the Round the NFL podcast, the Dalton Scale edition, and yes, huzza indeed, because everybody loves talking quarterbacks, and this conversation is special because I believe, and it's always you know, it's always been a bit nebulous or nebulos um to me. But at the same time, it's nebulous for a reason, which is because it's a science that really breaks down. Who has the quarterback to take them to the promised Lendon? Who doesn't West Again a brief rundown. How this came to be and where we're at now. I believe it started about four years ago, two thousand and fourteen, when we all realized that Andy Dalton was quarterback purgatory, that he could take you to the playoffs. He was a facilitator. He was only as good as the surrounding talent, but he didn't make teammates better, and the Bengals would lose their first playoff game every year. So we put Andy Dalton as the primary inning of quarterbacks. If your quarterback is ranked ahead of him, you have an answer. You've got your guy. You are set with a franchise quarterback. If your quarterback is ranked behind Andy Dalton, you need a quarterback. You don't have an answer. You're threw you're running him out there every week, but you probably want to trade it for a guy or draft a guy. There you go a great explainer. And uh, in terms of the history of this podcast, So Dalton was that guy. Then Dalton had that big year as we all know in two thousand fifteen, ended prematurely with the broken thumb, but he was one of the better pastors in the a f C. So uh, Collectively it was decided it wouldn't be right to stick him at that spot. Maybe he'd moved up a little bit, and we all decided collectively that Alex Smith was the new prime Ridian And um, so, I guess the good way to start here, and we'll start with you, Mark, is who should we install as that prime Ridian figure? And then we could work our way both backwards and forwards around that figure. And uh, Mark, do you wanna maybe make the case for Alex Smith remaining that man? I will make the case for Alex Smith because I don't

know what has changed with Alex Smith over the last year to change my impression of him. As we mentioned on our NFL Network, Kid the guy is to and four in the playoffs. He has proven over and over that he's good enough to get your team. He can he can serviceably get your team to the playoffs. He's not going to shred that opportunity, can get you there. But then it all starts to crumble. And Alex Smith to me is just he's extremely milk toast and the Chiefs to the Chiefs have made it very clear that they have come to the conclusion that is exactly the same they traded up to draft Patrick mah Himes. That needs work, of course, but he offers a skill set that is a counter complete counter to Alex Smith's and they want to go in a different direction. And that to me tells you Alex Smith is out sooner than later in Kansas City. Yeah, I think you have to consider Alex Smith below the Dalton scale. Now. The Chiefs have told us he's not a franchise quarterback. When Aaron Rodgers fell to the Packers and they had Brett Farve, they took him because he was the best player on the board. The Chiefs gave away an extra first round pick, traded way up to Patrick Mahomes, and that's a much different story. Right even if Smith is sort of right near the line, I think that move really says the Chiefs believe he's below the line. And when you start to do the numbers and what we can talk about Andy Dalton, when you start to just line up all these players, in my mind, it's unfair to have Dalton as the middle. But then you think about who are the guys you would rather have and the guys you wouldn't, and you know what, it still works out pretty even I did a list of who who I would want as my quarterback moving forward, and Andy Dalton landed right smack in the middle of starting quarterbacks. Number sixteen. Now he's better than the number sixteen quarterback used to be, but the the quality of play at quarterback and their numbers are just at a different level that actually, like, you would rather have Marcus Mariota more than him, wouldn't you, Dan Dak Brascott, Matthew Stafford, Jamis what I mean. Those are the guys that are kind of in the ten to fifteen level, and then there's Dalton back right where he should be. It's back to the Dalton scale. Alright, a couple of things come that a little bit. Um. Although we do appreciate your enthusiasm, I think it's a little bit unfair. I thought Dalton got kind of hosed by his own team last year, which did not do a nice job building around him, leading to of uh, two contributors go Tyler and Eifford being hurt at the Pro Bowl did not help him at all. So I don't think like I think Andy Dalton kind of elevated his game to the next level with me Andy's um two years ago, and then last year he kind of got banged by his surroundings a little bit. Uh, And then this year I expect him to kind of be close to guys, So I think he's on the right side in my opinion. I want to go back to Alex Smith one second here, Um, have you guys heard Patrick

Mahomes yet? And then yeah, I mean just really dove into playbook, getting up to speed on trying to catch up to where these guys are, and really just going through the motions, learning from mistakes and getting better every rop. I don't know if it's if I'm that far away, it's just more about I just gonna keep working, keep getting better. I mean these veterans or guys who've been around the league, been in the league, and I've been very successful. So in order to be like, uh, does that change how you guys feel at all about Patrick? I feel like I've hit beers with him at hucka Poose. Definitely know that voice from some how many Pro Bowl quarterbacks came out of huck a Poose. He's He's definitely a man where you see him step to the podium and when the voice that comes out of his mouth comes out of his it's it's surprising. It takes you back. So I I think Alex Smith is still Alex Smith. He's more Alex Smith than he's ever been. So I'm with Mark on this, and you guys are more in the camp of Dalton returning to his roots, which I can get by. I don't want to deadlock this thing because it's frankly, it's easier to call the Dalton scale and Dalton is the guy in the middle. Well, I've never taken Dalton out of west, never bought this. I don't know. I was listening to our podcast last year and you did state that his performance last year changed your feeling on him a little bit. It did. I think I still ranked him sixteen. Though, how about if we called it it's it's at any point if Andy Dalton left to become an accountant. We called it the Smith scale. It's the most boring last name, right at the most area where you cannot possibly being excited. We thought about calling it from Tanna scale too. Here the problem with Alex Smith. First of all, he didn't play as well last year as he had the previous two or three years. I think he played at a lower level and I've got him about twenty among starters, and that team that seems like too low to be the Daltons is not necessarily all because of the quarterback. But you know, he was the quarterback for a team that won the a f C West, and you know, yeah, but I think he would I think he would admit he did not play as well personal individually as he did in That's the same paradigm though is Dalton, where when he had a good team around him, they go to the playoffs eleven and five, ten and six, and he's not the reason alone that they were. He's not going to be the reason that why they're six and ten to be the one other real logical guy, and it's the guy couldn't decide whether to rank Dalton over or below is Kirk Cousins, who's basically East Coast Andy Dalton. And I think if you put Andy Dalton on the Redskins, he would put up numbers like Kirk Cousins. And I think you mentioned how Dalton kind of went up and down based on his surrounding cast, and I think that's the kind of quarter of that Cousins is. How about this for a compromise, I'm all down with putting Dalton right there Rheins dalling him as long as we're o k

putting Alex Smith as the first guy on either side. Now I have Alex Smith, I think the trade, the trade changes everything. Alex Smith is not a franchise quarterback, so to me, he's below guys like Joe Flacco, WHOA I have Flacco below Dalton, but I could see an argument for either side because Flacco has not played well the past couple of years, but he's also his like Dalton, his surrounding town has gone downhill. And as soon as you want to rank Dalton ahead of Flacco, you remember Flacco's postseason success, Well, you're gonna have Eli at thirty three on this liston he is to Eli is one of the Eli's postseason record is not nearly as good as people think it is. All right, I'm gonna now I will He's he's had two runs and every other playoff appearance he's been terrible. You know, do you understand what a super Bowl run is to to go through the playoffs but go four and o two separate years. But that doesn't think der useless. All other data involved I think we can agree on though, is the Dalton scale is a snapshot in time. So Eli has had his time, and West and I at least I think are in agreement that he is not where he was. He was significantly worse last year and and that's why it was not hard for me to rank him below Dalton here on the Dawnton scale. I think they need another franchise quarterback. I think this is the year, uh that Eli, to me enters that guy. I know he's been there for you guys earlier than this, coming off that bad year. What is how is he going to react to that? With a better cast around him? Should the Shiant Giants are good enough to win games in the playoffs this year, and if they don't and Eli plays poorly again, I think he's on the wrong side of this. I think he's in that kind. I still think he's on the right side of this prime Ridian but now he's closer than ever to the middle. For me anyway, I put him right next to um Andy Dalton right now at this point in that area. That's where I had. Where do you got him? I put him higher to I mean you and I think there's two of us in this room that are probably or more on the manning side of things. But you have Eli manning one spot above Jared Goff. I found your your placement of Jared Goff at one spot about tyros Well, I know, and maybe you're you're thinking that we didn't get a full picture of him last year. And I also look at Carson Wentz, who you know, he has his faults too, but he's two spots below Andy Dalton. Where I get caught up is that if I were to create my own team, I would quickly take a shot on Carson Wentz is my quarterback over Andy Dalton or not. I wouldn't go much higher on this list, but he would be above the Andy Dalton skille for me based on the potential. Well, I I believe that for three years running, that same logic killed us with Blake Bortles. You're right at the same time, I just don't you. Carson Wentz fixes his obvious mechanical flaws, I cannot put him above and it is a snapshot in time. But if the deafinitions that anyone under under below Andy Dalton, that GM that team needs to go and find a quarterback. It's tricky with someone like Carson Wentz when they sold so many draft picks to go get wins. If there's any flaw in the Dalton scale, it is those young ascending quarterbacks that you haven't seen do it yet. Because you're right, I had went below it too. But he is He's not a guy that you're looking to draft another player, but he's also not a franchise quarterback here. He hasn't proven yet. I think I don't think we've seen yet that he's gonna be one of the worst quarterbacks in the NFL from mid October through the end of You're right, and we also asked too much. It's I think we all have learned that we don't want to define what a quarterback is after one year. We did that with Derek Carr. In some cases, we did that with Blake Bortles. We've all been on the wrong side of the fence with some of this stuff, and some of these guys are just you have or even after two or three years. Literally a year ago, I did that the QBN next year end rankings. I went, look, I had Blake Bortles ahead of Matt Ryan that year after his good year. I think I had him fourteenth and Ryan fifty. So a year ago at this time, Bortles I think would have been above it. And that was a misfire. I think it. See you called it a flaw potentially, Greg, I see it as it makes sense that they should be lower on the list until they proved that they should be above that threshold. So hypothetically, a guy like Carson Wentz, who West, you have him at eighteen here, even despite some of his struggles in the back half of that season, he showed a lot of growth to get into this neighborhood now and now we'll see if he takes the next step to get over the hump at sixteen and then you and the Eagles. You're feeling great because after year two you you have a franchise quarterback for sure, but we're not sure yet. See him there says we're not sure yet, but it's promising. Because he's eighteen, it would be wrong to say you're sure. So I get why he's below Dalton. So to answer your Jared Golf question, he gets a mulligan for last year. We don't know who he is. He had one of the worst offensive coaching staffs we've seen in a long time, with no quarterback guru on the staff. Uh soft offensive line, no running game, bad receivers. I said all year, Dan, if you remember he wasn't ready to play, they shouldn't play it. He was terrible as a rookie. But I think he gets a mulligan. So I ranked him right above all the guys who nobody wants that Tyrod Taylor. Nobody wanted him because he has limitations. Yeah, but that's that's assuming they know what that that they're doing. I mean, the NFL mis evaluates quarterbacks all the time, as we do. That's why players get drafted in bad spots. I don't I don't get caught up too much. I have Taylor way ahead of Golf, but it doesn't matter. They're not that close really to the Dalton scale. The one thing with Goff, though, that gets me, is like we're kind of moving the goal posts here for a number one

overall pick. Like I I agree he should be given, uh mostly a pass for his rookie season considering everything around him, But he's also the number one pick in the draft. And we weren't. We weren't just hoping that Cam Newton would be passible in his second year. Like if he is just possible, if he's okay, everyone's gonna feel great about Jared Goff. That's not how he felt about Luck. That's not how he felt about Marcus Mariotta, who had no weapons around him as a rookie, Like, this is a guy you should be able to improve some of your teammates a little bit. Different types of prospects, though. Just because you're a number one pick doesn't mean you're the same. Cam Newton was not the same as Andrew Luck and who's not the same as Jared. Some of this is the failure of the draft industrial complex that Jared you even went number one in the first place. Yeah, and I am. I am fundamentally concerned about someone and I this is not a football issue. You don't know what side of the sky the sun rises. There's something happening with you as a person. I would never put that person this high on any list. So you're putting that hard knocks uh stumble as a major disqualifier. Potentially, it's it's much more drastic than uh Tannehill not knowing the divisions and how all the divisions land, which was also concerning to me. But that's more of we're all plugged into that. He's maybe not. Maybe that is excess mean about his focus. How focused are you on life if you don't know where the sunrise at age twenty something? I will counter if you went through the Hall of Fame quarterbacks, the living hall of same quarterbacks, you might be surprised how many of those quarterbacks don't know where the sun right at the end of the lives. Yes, what are you saying about quarterbacks? I'm saying it their respect. I mean, have you ever have you ever mowed the lawn? Have you ever walked through a park? You can't tell where the sun is setting a rising mark? You like you tell time by a sun dial. You're really plugged in on this. I mean I if if I have any friends that do not know where the sun rises and sets, I don't think that I'd have to sit down and think about the friendship. All right, West, by the way, on your list, you have Carson Palmer, and you know this Eli stuff sticks in my crawl. Carson Palmer is a noted playoff, choke artist and a guy that really stumbled in his age thirty eight season, and there's a lot of reason to think that he is not nearly the guy he was three years ago. That you have him considerably higher than Eli Um. Why is that? Well, he's what a year and a half removed from finishing second in the m v P race. He played really well down a stretch last time, well as Eli Manning was uh face planting and ruining the Giant season. Carson Palmer is a better quarterback than Eli Manning. That's why I have him. But he but he is below the Dalton line, which I think makes sense because I think you saw last year he's going up and down with what's happening around him. If he does not have protection. He is not someone who's going to survive, which is true of a lot of quarterbacks, but he is a guy that you no longer feel is the guy that they need to get another. The only reason I have him below Dalton is because he is flirted with retirement and he's year to year at this point, so you can't consider my franchise quarter And there was a lot of heat around the fact that the Cardinals also were very interested in Patrick Mahomes. I had I have him as the quarterback directly below the Dalton scale. That's where Harson Carson Palmer. Yeah, but that he's the first one that gets cut. So you okay, So and West has Kirk Cousins. Excusing that Kirk Cousins Joe Flacco in that same spot, Palmer, Mark, Who would you put as the first guy kind of below Andy Dalton although you think it's Alex Smith. Yeah, I think I would. I would flip flop dalt. I would maybe put Dalton below Alx Smith. I would be that would be the same place I would go with it. You guys think Alex Smith is a better player than Dalton. Is that what you're saying? No, I think I think Dalton. Well, let me put it kind of like the same thing. I guess to me better they better be touching each other. And I put kirk Cousins above both of them. I think Dalton can be uh considerably better. And yeah, Cousins was the one I was going to ask you, guys, how you're feeling about old Kirky these days, because he's me and him and Dalton are the same guy. Alex Smith, to me is is a tear is pretty significantly below that. And those two guys are are to me the whole They are this exercise. They are that I feel like, if you have you should have, if your if your list is making sense, it makes sense. Or Kirk Cousins to being that fourteen to eighteen area, Yeah, I feel like, you know, he's and this is a big year for him and the only thing you could say about it's been a very weird contract uh SA situation way it's played out in d C with Kirk Cousins. But if the Redskins, for instance, we're all about the Dalton scale, this is exactly how you would want to play it, kind of taking this thing year by year and try to figure out who this guy is. Uh. And they now they get another year to it seems like that's exactly how they're playing it. And yeah, and maybe to their credit, unless it blows up in their face, they I think they they share that view, or else they would have acted differently over the last few years. They seem pretty willing to roll the dice and and walk watch him walk away, or possibly even trade him away a year from now. Well, I think Jake Gruden sees him is is Andy Dalton, And if Jake Gruden was running that front office, he'd be signed already. But he's not running that front office. How about Dak Prescott, just fourth round rookie jumping right over the Dalton Dalton line, unlike most rookies right in his first season. He deserves it right agree everything that he did about it, but it does again, it's more like a football thing rather than a flaw. On this list, it

shows you how much having an amazing supporting cast can make a quarterback look better or perform better. If Dak Prescott switched places with Carson Wentz, I'm not saying Wentz would have performed as well, but I don't think Dak Prescott is on the right side of this yet. But the Cowboys, just like the chiefs and reverse. The cowboys told you what they thought by letting Tony Romo drift off. And I think Dak, like, for instance, Jared Goff, you know we're giving him a pass. I think we saw enough out of Jared Goff to say if he had been put in that situation in Dallas, things would not have gone as well as they went with Dak Prescott. I mean, you can still make evaluations on whether guys are processing things because he's not accurate, because he really sorry, I miss did you say Tony Romo? No, I was saying Goff somehow Dallas. Then then it wouldn't work out. Okay, Sorry, Greg, I just misunderstood you for sec Now you said something else, and I was going to take him to pisc on News and then I said, wait a second, did I hear him? Right? It turns out I didn't thank you for taking us through your thought process. All right? In the bottom mark, do you have a thirty two? Did you do with thirty two two? Or am I just going off West? And I did not produce one? Okay, that's fine, that's fine. So probably to the viewer's delight, Greg, this is on TV, Greg, Greg and West in your respective bottom tens. Who's the guy that would surprise you the least to jump onto the right side of the primer Indian here? Uh, it's between Trevor Simeon and Blake Bortles. If Bortles could ever fix his mechanics, and I am no longer holding out hope. You have twenty six and twenty seven those two guys, Bortles and Simmon in that. Yeah, I am not holding out hope for Bortles anymore. I have given up the ghost. But he has the tools if he can ever fix his mechanics. Trevor Simmey and I liked almost everything I saw out of him last year. I just don't know if he's talented enough. We'll see barely sneaking into my bottom ten. There was Sam Bradford, and it wouldn't it wouldn't surprise me with some improved protection, uh that he puts together. If he puts together the quality of play that he did a year ago again, then to me, he's he's kind of proven that he is a reliable, middle tier but solid franchise quarterback. The only reason I still had him so low is that it was the best season of his career, and he's been in the NFL a long time. He's played a long time, so I want to see him. I want to see him do it again. He outplayed Andy Dalton with uh you know, Dalton had a bad offensive line. Sam Bradford had one of the worst offensive lines I've ever seen. I think that's fair. But you have you have Bradford below your Dalton scale as well I do. I have him nineteen and he would be higher if not for his injury history. Next, I feel like Sam Bradford is exactly where he should be, the place he always was and always will be. Like right around twenty on this list, hand's never bought into the Bradford renaissance. Well he was. He was very good last year, but still, at the end of the day, what was he He was a quarterback that lorded over a deeply mediocre team. It wasn't all his fault, obviously, But is he ever gonna be a guy that's you're gonna build a franchise around At this stage, if it hasn't happened yet, still pretty young, I mean guys thirty at this point, Yeah, I got you. But guys like rich Gannon, we we've seen quarterbacks as you think Trent Green that yeah, that if he got in the perfect it is tough quarterback to take to separate him from the team. But if he got a perfect situation like a Trent Green, like a rich Gannon, could he make that sort of developed that late in his career. Maybe forget sandwiches, I will uh, you could sign over your car payments and your monthly rentals at your home in Santa Monica. If Sam Bradford ever wins the m v P and or takes his team to the super Bowl. But take him up on that? Yeah, okay, what do I give up? Nothing? I mean MVP, MVP and happening going to the super Bowl. I mean some bad core are Rex have made it to the super Bowl? Rex gross and made it to the super Bowl. Daddy likes that one. They never know. I mean that that Viking spread seven? Who know that's possible? That's good luck? Good luck. Can you imagine Dan, if you had to go home one night and explain to your wife and at that point your children who would be would be aware of this that you have taken on a financial burden that will sink your household for a thousand better? What if what if the Vikings start making a run right? This is this is they're making the playoffs. This is recorded, and you picked the wrong like you know, if you did this with wesser Mark, they'd be like, a ha ha, you can take me up for some jects. Now I want that Oh, I want that run money that's happening. I know this, you know scratches an itch for you, Greg, So I have no problem with it. And now I will say, if it ever did happen, if you turned out to be the subject of a date line episode, don't be surprised if I had to make the problem go away. You know what does that even mean? That means you would be you'd beat the subject, but you wouldn't be watching it because you'd be deep below the earth. But it's like you wouldn't be interviewed, but you would be. I got not to to hide. Well, he wants to hide something. It would be you. I'd kill you, Greg, I had murder you if I had, if you stood between between me and taking care of my family, would have to probably kill you. I thought you were trying to entrap me in some sort of uh no, but that's a good idea too. That I could entrap you. Well, you you've already hatched the plan on a public podcast. We should we should edit this part out just in case I need to unferral some type of scheme. Cut it out. Where would you guys put Ryan? Do you guys think that Ryan tanne I feel like I'm speaking to the wrong room for this, but I think if we were talking to a lot of NFL people, there would be something that would make the

case for Ryan Tannehilton. Dat scale at this. Why do you do this every off season? All the Dolphins fans are starting to get riled up. Everybody calm down, Let's hear out West. Now I have an off season. People want to act like Ryan Tannehill's much better than he is. He played better last year. I think that's fair to say that the end stretch with Gaze was the best stretch of his career. I think that his last six seven games last year before he got hurt, I'm a big unclosing season stretch, and then he got hurt, wildly played up in the upcoming season. I remember JaMarcus Russell's wild closing stretch and everybody was convinced. How about the Geno Smith closing stretch that had Gregg doing cartwheels. He hasn't played since. A lot of a lot of stuff is happening at the end of any NFL season two. But I think here's that was mid season. He just got hurt in Week fourteen or whatever. I guess think it's it's a snapshot of Tannehill. He'd be higher than he would have been maybe in other periods in his career. But if it's if you're thinking about Tannehill the overall product, I think he's right where he should be. I I have him nineteen and I think he is among the guys below the Dalton scale for me, like Flacco, that would have a good chance to jump above because I think, but you say that year, but this is the first time he's had a competent coordinator for the second straight year. He certainly got better talent around him. If he doesn't do it now, there are no excuses. But I think you can look at Mike Sherman and Joe Philbin and and what's been going on with the offensive line and and make some excuses for I think that's what we When Andy Dalton took the team to eight and no or whatever, and he was playing in an m v P level. It was in a world where everything around him was perfect for the most part, and we got the prime version of Andy Dalton, a version that I think would have argued for him not to be in this spot again if that play had continued. Ever again, not close to it. But if you look at Tannehill, we're projecting that he has to do it. We can't just say everything needs to be perfect around Tannehill then he'll rise above Dalton. It's no coincidence that this sequence that Gregg is talking about also Cohen. It is also when they started to run their offense through j h I. Yep, but he ran he One thing Tannehill did last year and he should be given credit because he got picked on a lot for it was he threw the ball deep well period and that was one of maybe the biggest weakness that he had. Ended up averaging seven point seven yards per tempt, Like can you do it again? Yeah, he showed some progress, That's all I'm saying. He's been around for a while. I can't track of Greg's Tannehill love scale. It seems to come and go. It's sometimes it's stronger than others. I remember it was very very strong entering that Dan Campbell season. I'd started lost off going into last year, and now your kid's getting back. He regretted bailing on him, Yeah, a little bit. Well it's not too late. Not too late. Uh. I think he's perfect right where he is hanging out around Sam Bradford. But we'll see. Maybe he does make the leap. Uh for good for you, Greg, which would be bad news for your football team, but you don't really care anymore. I care if you know, if any Tannehill gets in the way of them in the playoffs or anything like that that crush them, like all credit to him. I'm not expecting that happened. Um, anything else we want to discuss, we I guess we because I like, I like to come out of this with us all being on the same page. But there's no reason to force it either. But where some of us believe Alex Smith is, some of us believe, uh that Andy Dalton is the prime Ridian. But in general, I think the bigger takeaways who is in that realm and who's gonna who's gonna fall back, who's gonna jump over? And that's what we've really dug get on here, and I think we haven't talked a lot about the guys that are above the line because it feels like this year, more than others, that they are kind of no doubters. Like Stafford is a no doubter. Now, Camp of course is a no doubter. I think Mariota and Winston at this point are are no doubters all right here, Yeah, let's do this earlier we we looked at the bottom ten. Who in your boys is top ten quarterbacks? Uh? Stands the greatest chance to drop below the Dalton line in oh this was where it could get a little testy. Well, I have Stafford in Newton nine and ten. I just say they're the most likely. Stafford, I mean he's in an offense where they throw quick short passes. Does that really use his skill set the most? I don't know. And Newton had one of the least accurate stretches we've seen down the stretch last year. He was playing through a shoulder injury. But I don't know. I think we'll see what Cam Newton does this year. Yeah, Cam would be my choice, and I I love Cam, I love watching him. I don't think it's gonna happen, yet they want to change the offense. He's coming up a shoulder surgery, and you look at the last his last three seasons. I think it's universally agreed not a top ten quarterback in M v P. Not a top ten quarterback. That is a but that's a crazy career thing. So could he if he struggled again, if he had another bad season, is that going to change the way we think about And you know, I guess, I guess it would because I would be three out of four years. I would go with Stafford and Newton because I think they'll both be leapfrogged by Mariotta and Winston and and honestly, I could see Philip Rivers getting back up into the top ten. With with top ten, I'm talking that will drop out of the top. I'm saying that would just that would displace the too co out of the sixteen. Stafford for me, yeah, I'm with you all that just because obviously he's had great moments all throughout his career. But could I see him regressing a little bit? Has he has he peeked as a player. It's it's possible. I got a bad taste of my mouth to that that playoff loss to the

Seahawks. I feel like I'm kind of sick of Met Stafford after that game, sick of the hole met Stafford. Also, I really was impressed by the way he played. I think he played in a way that convinced me that he's going to have a really nice back end of his career. That he kind of was is a very steady He was not their problem. He's the one problem. But I think in the past he's been very up and down. Last year he was not up and down. To me, it's just looking at West top ten over here, I don't see like a total phony hanging out in there. It's an automatic to drop it to I think when you when you look at the breath of Matthew Stafford's career, the one thing that jumps out is his total inability to beat good teams. Yeah, and that's a trait of I think that's a trait of the Dalton scale esque issues. Is that for me, that's part of it. And Stafford has been there and he's been this physically gifted player the whole time, and yet how many huge wins do you remember? And and finally, just a little cute note here my favorite little rivalry between my boys. West has uh Marcus Mariotta one spot ahead of Jamis Walton, and Greg has Jamis Winston one spot ahead of Marcus Mariotta. You guys are so cute. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't waffle on that one at all. Mariota clearly. Well, I mean it's not like you have them to to uh too far apart there. That is funny. We didn't see our lists obviously separate. All right, there you go. That is are Dalton Scale conversation for two thousand, uh seventeen. Finally a little bit of breaking news here and then to do that, Yes, we're going to the Ravens Nest. Hit me again. Not good news. Ravens cornerback Tavon Young suffered a torn a c l at O t a s expected to uh miss most of or if not, the entire seen season. Was a nice player in the slot for them as a rookie. Uh no official word out yet, but tough times in the Ravens Nest today. I I really was impressed by him as a rookie. He was such a tough player. But they are about as deep at cornerback as as any team in football, which is surprising to say about the Ravens. They have Jimmy Smith, their first round pick, Marlon Humphrey and Brandon Carr still three pretty solid cornerbacks. So if if they were going to take a bad injury at a position, I guess cornerback would be one to do it. Guys, right to hop out of the nests. We're late visit to the nest. Sometimes you're and sometimes you're have time to hop out of that nest. All right, it's time to end the Around the NFL podcast. We got a big softball game to prepare for. No more work, only focus on an important game. And I will say it again. I say this with peace and love. Heads will roll if we do not prevail tonight. Pressure is on how many jobs are on the line in this game. I don't want to put a number on it because I don't want people listen. I want people looking over their shoulders during this game, but I don't want them to be in an outright panic where they're they're counting numbers and saying, looking at the box score, who's doing better? Do I have to stay above this guy? But just no skips watching very closely half the team is in Europe. I mean, how are you going to contact one of these vacationers if it's them that gets axed. Uh, we should have close to a full squad today. Actually, when one thing you should like or not like, but at least take comfort in the the arc of the team. It's somewhat similar. It's even early in the process to last year's team. Right, you guys had some ups and downs. You were saying, you're seven and seven at one each With all due respect, each season is its own thing. So I'm not going to say, oh, just because we sucked it up for a portion of the regular season last year, it's okay, that's happening this year. No, I expect more from this team this year coming off our season, and I haven't liked what I've seen in the last couple of weeks. Some of the some of the playing and some of the attitudes quite funny. Uh. And if I have to make a move, I have to make a move. So I don't want to get on your radar. But what if someone raises the issue that you were not at the last time. Well, I put family above softball, Alright, this isn't about everyone can miss a game here and there. That's fine, that's not the issue. And it's when you're on the field, what are you doing for me? In fact, me missing games shouldn't be the end of the world. So we have a lot of guys. My problem is, I got a lot of guys, But I got a lot of guys that can play, and I'm gonna make some decisions based on I see today. I have taken copious scattering reports the last few weeks, and I am ready to contribute to this discussion anyway you needs. You know, as my as my consigliari, we always discuss any huge moves. Uh, and that will happen again. So good luck Greg in today's game. Wow. Great, No, Greg, You've done very well this season. I just want to make that clear. Uh. But it's more, I'm watching the entire team. Okay, that's it. We'll be back. I mean, I'm out here sacrificing for this team. I see a gnarly, bloody picture every like Greg. Greg's earned. Just keep We'll be back on Tuesday with another episode of the Round the NFL podcast. Dan Hans designing off for the Scissor, The Mailman, the Boston Slily Behind the Glass Tail Tuesday, Pat